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Speaker 1: Baby show. I don't have a rundown, so I had nothing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you, well it wasn't on my side. People. Let's go.

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Speaker 2: Wind down with Jana Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 1: One year and she's just Steve over here happy one

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Speaker 1: year Julee. Yes, I can't believe it's been a year

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Speaker 1: of doing this show.

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Speaker 3: I know, it actually seems like it went really fast.

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Speaker 1: It seems like one by really fast. But then also

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Speaker 1: I'm like, are we still doing it? Like you guys

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Speaker 1: still want us?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Yes, please be sure sure do. That's where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: my like, love me.

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Speaker 3: If I open an US magazine, we'll see why we

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Speaker 3: sure sure do. For Jenna and Michael, I mean get

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Speaker 3: no matter what they say now.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm honestly afraid to sometimes say things now because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well I don't want this to get picked up.

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Speaker 3: You e and thank you people, and thank you US

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Speaker 3: magazine for now listening. The last one when they talked

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Speaker 3: about Olivia col.

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Speaker 1: I died, I was like, oh my gosh, Michael, now

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Speaker 1: you're making the headline.

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Speaker 4: What I have to say about that?

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Speaker 1: Why apparently US and do care?

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Speaker 4: No one cares, No one else cares.

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Speaker 1: Well for it. I mean, people liked it, but no,

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Speaker 1: I just it's been a year. And thank you Amy,

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Speaker 1: thank you Mark, thank you Easton for for for dealing

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Speaker 1: with us for a year.

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Speaker 5: It's been our pleasure.

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Speaker 1: And thanks for Mike for for jumping on board with us.

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Speaker 4: I think that's why it definitely doesn't feel like a year,

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Speaker 4: because you know, I came on what September. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: it's like, you know, we've been doing this since September,

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Speaker 4: but you were doing it for several months before.

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Speaker 3: Now I've known you for so much longer. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: like I'm all mixed up in my time.

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Speaker 1: But I love it. This is our one year and

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Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to everyone that

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Speaker 1: listens to the show, because we could not keep going

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Speaker 1: if we didn't have the downloads.

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Speaker 3: So and the emails they make me cry and laugh

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Speaker 3: and because I get them first and then I send

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Speaker 3: them to you guys, and it's like these people are

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Speaker 3: the coolest and they're so open and willing to share,

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Speaker 3: and it just even if you don't get a response,

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Speaker 3: we read them all and it means so much. I

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Speaker 3: try to respond to everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our wind Down listeners are the best, so do

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Speaker 1: you want to thank you guys? What's the big announcement?

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Speaker 1: We have a big announcement.

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Speaker 5: Do you know that?

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Speaker 4: Do I need to make the big announcement?

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Speaker 3: Should Mark do the big announcement?

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Speaker 6: And everyone's like, okay, exciting, exciting, Well, wind Down with

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Speaker 6: Jana Kramer is getting a name change.

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Speaker 1: It is it's called basectomies with It's called sex talk

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Speaker 1: with Jana Huke. No, that's it. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: wind Down with Jana Kramer and my Cussinday.

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Speaker 3: A very big debate because I call you Michael and Mike,

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Speaker 3: like it just sort of switches off depending on kind

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Speaker 3: of like I don't know what what do you like?

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Speaker 1: He should be God?

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Speaker 4: Actually I actually go by John my middle name. What No.

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Speaker 4: I think it's because you know, you are affiliate affiliated

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Speaker 4: with Jenna and she always calls me Michael, right, So

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Speaker 4: that's how like you know me is specifically through Jena initially,

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Speaker 4: and she calls me Michael. No one else really calls

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Speaker 4: me Michael. I respond to whatever, what should we put

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Speaker 4: on the logo?

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Speaker 1: Because because we're changing the name.

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Speaker 4: Thing now, we have a dilemma, what do you want

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Speaker 4: to what do.

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Speaker 1: You want I don't know what I think, my think,

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Speaker 1: just it's your formal.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I say gonna say.

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Speaker 5: Just Mike, the Mike cousin. It is hard to say

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Speaker 5: it should.

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Speaker 3: Be Michael, Okay, this is PTSD the visectomy, because nothing

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Speaker 3: was more uncomfortable than the fact that you'd have the

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Speaker 3: seck to me, and Jana was like, I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: we should have done it, and I'm.

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Speaker 4: Like, right, classic Janne.

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Speaker 3: I was in the room looking at Mark like this

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Speaker 3: is happening right now because he had it.

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Speaker 4: That's my wife. That is my wife. Everything she second

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Speaker 4: guests were every trip, every plane trip that we have,

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Speaker 4: we'll be sitting there waiting to get on the plane.

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Speaker 4: Jane's like, should we have done a different flight? Should

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Speaker 4: we have left like earlier? Should we have left later?

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Speaker 4: She can't. It's physically impossible for her not to make

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Speaker 4: her comment about should we have taken this?

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Speaker 3: Like it went wrong with your flight home from Scotland.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. Look, something looked bad when I

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Speaker 3: saw Janna on.

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Speaker 1: The floor of the airport. But I was on the floor.

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Speaker 3: I thought you were just sitting on the floor waiting.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was. We were waiting and then the

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Speaker 1: entire time. I was like, we shouldn't have taken this flight,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking at other flights. He's like, you physically

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Speaker 1: cannot get like stay on the same flight.

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Speaker 4: She's like, should we just flown down straight out of

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Speaker 4: LA Because we didn't, because we went some Seattle then

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Speaker 4: went over.

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Speaker 1: We tried to save some money.

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Speaker 4: It was significantly cheaper. But then Jana is like, so

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Speaker 4: it's just I don't know, it's a pain.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, but I have a hard time sticking to

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Speaker 1: my TRAPA plants or Mike. What do you wanted to be? Ben?

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Speaker 4: I think Mark? I thought Mark. Bret brought up a

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Speaker 4: great point. Michael just flows better. And actually, when I

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Speaker 4: talk to people on the phone and asked me my name,

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Speaker 4: I say Michael Cosson. Because I've said Mike cost him

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Speaker 4: too much. People call me Mark, people call me Matt.

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Speaker 4: It's just because that back.

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Speaker 1: To back people call you Matt from Mike.

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Speaker 4: Don't ask me. I those people, it's their fault.

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Speaker 1: It's like the lady that yesterday the airport called me Juna.

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Speaker 1: I go, where in your right brain.

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Speaker 4: Does Jana wanted? This is the lady that takes our

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Speaker 4: ticket before we walk down the tarmac. Janda wanted to stop,

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Speaker 4: turn around and go ask her.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, just keep walking, you like it, says Jana,

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Speaker 1: So like, uh is a Juna. I didn't get that one.

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Speaker 1: I'll get I'll get Jana.

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Speaker 3: I'm with all the other back congratulations.

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Speaker 1: All right, So it's now officially wind down with Jana,

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Speaker 1: Kramer and Michael. I'd really stuck if we lost like

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Speaker 1: a lot of listeners.

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Speaker 3: So now if you two can just get into a

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Speaker 3: big fight and maybe jam fries, we're.

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Speaker 1: Off to a good start off to right. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I just feel like we you know, Mike's been on

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Speaker 1: since September obviously, because you know, Miss Jen is so

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Speaker 1: busy with Ryan and everything else, and you know, with

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Speaker 1: Michael and what we have and what we're doing and

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Speaker 1: wanting to do and helping people. And I'm like, it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't just be my name on there. So I do

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Speaker 1: love my.

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Speaker 4: Saying Diva Hatted saying I want my name on there too.

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Speaker 5: I actually.

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Speaker 3: He did not do that. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I just I just care about him and I want him,

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Speaker 1: you know, to he he deserves to have his name

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Speaker 1: up there too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, we're very grateful to you guys for being

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Speaker 3: so open with no filter, and please continue welcome.

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Speaker 1: We'll try, although I do get really scared.

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Speaker 4: Though we don't have to try, we just have to

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Speaker 4: try not to well.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, the funny thing is when you were talking about Olivia,

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Speaker 1: in my brain I was like, Okay, I know that

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Speaker 1: one of the writers from E listens to the show

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Speaker 1: because he's so sweet. And I was just like, I

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Speaker 1: have to be careful because if I say I don't

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Speaker 1: like her, that's going to be the like the headline

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Speaker 1: you said, but I don't not like her, though I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying I I'm just I have to be careful

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Speaker 1: with that, right politically correct her. I mean, you basically

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Speaker 1: called their a social climber, but that's fine. That was

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Speaker 1: your opinion. So anyways, let's get to what you know.

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Speaker 1: Like Michael says he wants to talk about the important stuff.

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Speaker 1: That was what you said. You were like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to just talk about this celebrity. You wanted to

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Speaker 1: and this is you know again, since this is the

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Speaker 1: start of our show together, right, you really wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to this guy today and so Amy, our amazing producer,

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Speaker 1: made it happen. Do you want to kind of give

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Speaker 1: a backstory before we get them on the phone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And to Jana's point, it's it's, you know, we

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Speaker 4: want to talk about everything, but we realize what the

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Speaker 4: listeners want to hear and what they want us to

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Speaker 4: talk about. And so the guests that we're going to

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Speaker 4: have on the show today very important for me specifically

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Speaker 4: just because the names are Jason and Shelley Martinez. Jason

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Speaker 4: is an author. He wrote this book titled Worthy of

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Speaker 4: Her Trust.

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Speaker 1: Didn't Shelley write with him?

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Speaker 4: She did. Like Shelley's thoughts like throughout the book, she

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Speaker 4: like kind of put her thoughts, her true sense, her feelings,

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Speaker 4: and you know, wrote them down within the chapters. And

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Speaker 4: this was probably one of the first books in recent

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Speaker 4: memory that I've read like covered a cover multiple times.

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Speaker 4: And this book was given to me when I was

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Speaker 4: in rehab for sex addiction and really kind of sheeped

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Speaker 4: my whole mindset around recovery, around forgiveness, around trust, around

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Speaker 4: everything like this. This book impacted me the most out

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Speaker 4: of any book that I read when I was in treatment,

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Speaker 4: out of any workbook, out of any big book, out

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Speaker 4: of anything, this was the book that I always referred

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Speaker 4: back to. So personally, I'm very very excited and feel

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Speaker 4: very privileged to be able to talk to this guy

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Speaker 4: and his wife and express that to them and ask

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Speaker 4: them some questions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited too, just from like this the wife's

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Speaker 1: standpoint with all of us too, and because there's been

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Speaker 1: so many people that email us and ask us how

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Speaker 1: we do it, and it's nice to see someone that's

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Speaker 1: you know, we've been doing it for what four years now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well three years in recovery, but you know, sixteen years

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Speaker 1: they've been married. So I'm I'm just super excited to

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Speaker 1: kind of pick their brain because there's I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that have questions as well on how

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Speaker 1: to get through things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and some of the things that he talks about

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Speaker 4: this book that will ask them our art, you know,

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Speaker 4: are topics that, whether addiction or not, any relationship that

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Speaker 4: deals with any kind of infidelity you can definitely benefit

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Speaker 4: from for sure.

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Speaker 1: So are they in the phoner.

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Speaker 4: Eyah, they are.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk

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Speaker 5: to them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. All right, guys, it's a last week

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Speaker 1: to get your tickets. This week, the podcast tour Wind

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Speaker 1: Down is going on the road. We're going to be

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Speaker 1: in Alexandria, Virginia, May sixteenth. On the seventeenth, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be in New York, and on the eighteenth we're

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Speaker 1: going to be in Boston. So go to Janacramer dot

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sing a lot of new songs.

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Speaker 7: Hope to see you guys there.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you've considered a Sleep Number bed but thought you

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Speaker 1: laugh because Michael and I argued about the firmness of

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Speaker 1: our bed all the time.

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Speaker 7: I like softer, he likes harder. Wait, yes, let's just

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Speaker 7: keep it about the bed. But seriously, though, we like

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Speaker 1: Okay, so with a Sleep Number three sixty bed, we

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Speaker 1: For Jolie, it's great because she sees me brushing my

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Speaker 1: teeth and we kind of make it like a bedtime routine,

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Speaker 1: Janna g e t qu ip dot com slash Jana. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so before we get them on the phone, though anything

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Speaker 1: from Scotland.

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Speaker 4: We want to talk about how unbelievably amazing it was.

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Speaker 1: That was the best trip ever. I will say this.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'd put this on my Instagram. But

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Speaker 1: we we live our lives for our kids, and I

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Speaker 1: sometimes think that we forget to kind of nourish our relationship.

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Speaker 1: And that was such a connecting trip without trying, without yeah,

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Speaker 1: without forcing it.

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Speaker 4: Without forcing it, without being like we have to do

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Speaker 4: this and we have to do that. And yeah, like

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Speaker 4: we just we didn't even end up having sex.

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Speaker 1: We didn't. You tried, Yeah, you tried. He came in

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Speaker 1: the room like because the time change was like really

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Speaker 1: throwing me off to you. I was super tired, but

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Speaker 1: you came in around like ten thirty. No, yeah, around

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Speaker 1: like ten thirty eleven and you're a try and I

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Speaker 1: was like, back off, Bola, Yeah, you're happening a pretty

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Speaker 1: But it didn't like we didn't need to wasn't even

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Speaker 1: about that. We went for the most oh by the

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Speaker 1: way mark, we went for a walk in the woods,

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Speaker 1: in the forest and Michael fell in a waterfall. Oh

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Speaker 1: it was all for the picture and I was not falling. No, no,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to go down in the middle of the waterfall.

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Speaker 4: Like step on this rock forgine to take a picture

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Speaker 4: from this bridge.

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Speaker 2: Still get seriously injured doing this stuff for the selfies, I.

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Speaker 1: Know, yeah there, And all of a sudden he slips

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Speaker 1: on moss.

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Speaker 4: Which I knew. I was like, okay, this is wet moss,

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Speaker 4: It's going to be slippery. And I still slipped and

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Speaker 4: fell luckily car so he.

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Speaker 1: Gets like halfway. I'm screaming like Mia, Michael, oh no,

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Speaker 1: And I mean I thought for sure he was going

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Speaker 1: all the way down. But it was the most. It

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Speaker 1: was the most beautiful walk back to the castle. It

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Speaker 1: was just it was like out of Dress Park, how

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Speaker 1: beautiful and green and just I mean, Lord of the.

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Speaker 4: Rings meets Jurassic Park meets like a fairy tale.

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Speaker 1: It was incredible. It was honestly the best and I

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Speaker 1: I want to go back there for our ten years

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Speaker 1: because you can rent out the castle. It's called the

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Speaker 1: Dunsk Estate and you can rent out the castle and

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Speaker 1: there's activities. It's a castle.

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Speaker 4: It's in the state.

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Speaker 1: You don't think it's a castle.

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Speaker 4: It's in a state.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's a castle. They say it's a castle.

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Speaker 4: They say a state.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to show mark a picture. It's a castle.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what what determines that it looks like.

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Speaker 4: And analystairs called it. I mean they never claimed it

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Speaker 4: to be a castle. It's in the state. It's a

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Speaker 4: family state.

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Speaker 1: I mean it looks like a castle.

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Speaker 4: It's gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't think it looks like a castle? Really?

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Speaker 4: No? This is what is it called?

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Speaker 1: Look it up Dunske Estate. It looks like a castle.

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Speaker 1: U n s k e y what's key? It's key?

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Speaker 1: Are you still in Scotland, wifey struggle city?

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Speaker 5: Okay, I think I think I think you agree with.

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Speaker 2: Here's what it says. Dunsky Estate is an Edwardian castle

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Speaker 2: well self catering accommodations, holiday cottages, blah blah blah, interesting

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Speaker 2: Dunsky estate private castle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like a castle. It is a castle.

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Speaker 5: That's really awesome.

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Speaker 1: It was literally the most amazing. I will never forget

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Speaker 1: that wedding.

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Speaker 5: How long were you there for?

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Speaker 1: Three days?

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Speaker 4: Thursday? Really? I mean we were there Thursday, but that.

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Speaker 1: Was just that was We were delirious the entire time.

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Speaker 1: Michael's like driving two hours from the Glasgow airport and

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Speaker 1: he's like, I'm.

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Speaker 4: In a struggle city. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was brutal Friday.

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Speaker 4: So really Friday Saturday was like two full awake.

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Speaker 5: And no sex the whole time.

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Speaker 4: Huh No, we just Janna went to bed earlier than

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Speaker 4: really everybody every night, and I just I wasn't I

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Speaker 4: didn't want to go to bed. I just wanted to.

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Speaker 4: Like one night she went to bed and everyone else

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Speaker 4: was doing like a whiskey tasting. I sat in this

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Speaker 4: it's like their bar room in the castle. You kind

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Speaker 4: of see it. It kind of felt like a uh

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Speaker 4: like an old timey like country club locker room type

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Speaker 4: of field, just you know, big beautiful chairs and couches

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Speaker 4: and a big, you know, wood burning fireplace with a

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Speaker 4: bar behind you and just I just sat there. I

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00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,639
Speaker 4: just sat there by myself, so relaxing, just drinking a

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Speaker 4: coffee and having a drink and looking out the over

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Speaker 4: like out the window over the estate. It was. It

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Speaker 4: was unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: I did have one panic attack the first night we

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Speaker 1: were there. We hadn't slept in thirty six hours, and

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Speaker 1: I woke up at eleven o'clock and everyone was still up,

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Speaker 1: and so then I started freaking out, like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: the closest hospital is like two hours away, and oh

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00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, what if I pass out? And this and that,

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00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 1: and then I was finally like, I looked out the

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Speaker 1: window and I just I got a cold compress, which

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00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 1: always helps me with my anxiety. And then I just

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00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 1: laid in bed did some deep breathing, and I was like,

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00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,159
Speaker 1: I'm in a beautiful place. I'm okay. And then I

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Speaker 1: went to bed and I was fine the rest of

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Speaker 1: the trip.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for not waking me up.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome.

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00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 4: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Should we get them on the line, yeah them both like, okay,

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Speaker 1: right now, Jason Shelley, I'm here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Hi, how are you great?

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00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:05,199
Speaker 8: How are you?

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00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: We're good. We are so excited to have you on

402
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 1: wind Down. We really appreciate it. Mike has been chatting

403
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: with the producer for a while to get you on

404
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 1: the show, so we're super excited that you both are on,

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00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 1: and we just we feel very fortunate.

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00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for having it, of course, and again

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00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 4: thank you for making the time. And we gave before

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00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 4: we got you guys on, I kind of gave the

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00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 4: listeners a little backstory of you know, the book where

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00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 4: they're worthy of her trust and the impact for me

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00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 4: with that book, and I just wanted to share that

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00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 4: with you guys too, because I admitted myself into rehab

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00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 4: for sex addiction back in twenty sixteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, summer of twenty sixteen, and y'all's book was

415
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 4: with all the literature and all the stuff that I

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00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 4: read when I was in treatment, y'all's book was the

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00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 4: book that really shifted and was able to change my life,

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00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,719
Speaker 4: change my mindset, and change just how I thought about things.

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00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 4: You know, it was one of it was the first

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00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: book and I don't even know how long that I

421
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,959
Speaker 4: read cover to cover multiple times. And a buddy of

422
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 4: mine that were a guy that I became close with

423
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 4: in treatment that still talked to to this day. Him

424
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 4: and I when we got out of treatment, we always

425
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 4: referred back to y'all's book and remember what they said here,

426
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 4: remember what they said there? And it was it really was.

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Speaker 4: I just want to thank you guys for writing that,

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00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 4: for being willing to open up like that, because it

429
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 4: just for me, If it's just one person, y'all's book

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00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,680
Speaker 4: changed my life for the better, which ultimately changed Jane

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00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 4: and I's life because I was able to think and

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00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 4: act a different way because of it.

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Speaker 9: Wow, man, thank you, Thank you guys. That's really cool.

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00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: So I guess I want to start with Shelley. Shelley,

435
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 1: so you you confronted Jason right about infidelity?

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00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, so we did.

437
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: Was it just something where you just you kind of knew,

438
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: like you knew in your heart of hearts? Because a

439
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: lot of people asked me, They're like, how did you know?

440
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: How did you know? And for me, it was just

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00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: I just had that gut feeling. There was a lot

442
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: of things that were, you know, he was acting different

443
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 1: on and there was just something where in my gut

444
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: I just knew something was going on, and I don't know.

445
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 1: Was that kind of the same experience for you or

446
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: did you? Did you find things?

447
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 8: Or yeah, you know I I actually I really thought

448
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 8: Jason only had eyes for me. So in my gut,

449
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 8: I knew something was off. Even the day we got married,

450
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,640
Speaker 8: as I was walking down the aisle, I knew deep

451
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 8: down something wasn't right. But I never ever thought it

452
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 8: would be betrayal. So, but a couple of things that happened,

453
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 8: and at one point Jason had confessed to inappropriate relationship at.

454
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 9: Work, And.

455
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 8: Again a couple of other things happened which led me

456
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 8: to confronting Jason and and so so yeah, it was

457
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 8: I really never thought this would be my story. I

458
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 8: thought it would be you know, the gal down the

459
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 8: street or Homer, but not my story.

460
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 1: No, I hear you on that. And Jason, did you

461
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: did you? You know how long was that recovery process

462
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: for you? I mean, I know with Michael it's you know,

463
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: obviously we've had our slips and stuff and it's been difficult.

464
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: But was it something where you were like, Okay, I

465
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: need to I have kids and I have a family,

466
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: and I'm going to you know, go through with us

467
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 1: and be straight this way.

468
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 9: You know, it was a little different for me in

469
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 9: that we were early in our marriage. We were only

470
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 9: a few years into our marriage. We had no kids.

471
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 9: Oh wow, we had no I mean Shelley Sully made

472
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 9: three times as much money as I did. We didn't

473
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 9: have a whole lot of accets to our name. Like,

474
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 9: it would have been really easy to just cut ties

475
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 9: and go separate ways, and I think it would have

476
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 9: been really easy for Shelley to do that. For me,

477
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 9: the beginning was really wonky, and that sometimes I was

478
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 9: trying to change and doing the work for me, and

479
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 9: sometimes it was just to save our marriage. And you know,

480
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 9: my motivation kind of it kind of it kind of

481
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 9: what would you call that, like shifted back and forth

482
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 9: between those Does that make sense?

483
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, And I.

484
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 9: Don't think that's wrong or bad today. Some days it

485
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 9: was for good motivation. Sometimes it's for better motivation. But

486
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 9: ultimately it landed at I have to change because I've

487
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 9: got to be a different man, and if that results

488
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 9: in Shelley seeing something worth staying with me, then then

489
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 9: that's kind of like the megaphonus at that point. But

490
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 9: I ultimately realized I had to.

491
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 4: Change absolutely, And you know, I was actually rereading some

492
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 4: of the earlier chapters in the book this morning, just

493
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 4: to kind of refresh my memory, and just reading the

494
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 4: part of you know, Shelley, you justis covering and Jason

495
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 4: your feelings after that, it just reading that it just

496
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 4: brought up my own experience all over again. And it's

497
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 4: amazing just the insanity and the pain that goes along

498
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 4: with all of that. And I'm sure with you guys,

499
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 4: even being as far along as you are in this,

500
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 4: you know, you can still respect the pain from a

501
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 4: sense of you know, knowing where you guys are now

502
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 4: compared to them, you know, I mean, how impactful, how

503
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 4: impactful it still is. And there's one thing, one of

504
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 4: the many things that I love about y'all's book is

505
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 4: the whole debunking the myths. The eight myths that you

506
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: debunk kind of early in the part one of the

507
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: book is something that you know, for our listeners, you know,

508
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 4: obviously not everyone out there is a sex addict. That

509
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: you know, any relationship that deals with infidelity doesn't mean

510
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 4: that there's addiction attached to it. And what I love

511
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 4: about those myths is that it's not really specified toward addiction. Obviously,

512
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 4: you know you stuffer from addiction. I suffer from addiction,

513
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 4: so we relate, but that aren't even in an addictive program,

514
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 4: can relate to those two and one of them for

515
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 4: me that I remember telling so many therapists into Jana,

516
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 4: which is the second one. Just for an example that

517
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 4: you talk about, is you know, for you is not

518
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 4: acting out again is all it takes to build trust

519
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 4: and that it's almost laughable to me when I say

520
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 4: that out loud, because that's how I viewed relationships, That's

521
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 4: how I viewed initially building back trust with Janna. I

522
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 4: always told myself it's like, if I didn't act out,

523
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 4: if I didn't do the things that I did, what

524
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 4: would I ever fight about with Janna, or what would

525
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 4: I ever fight about with any spouse or partner or

526
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 4: girlfriend if I didn't if I didn't get caught and

527
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 4: do those things. And then with you know, Jana and

528
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 4: I trying to reconcile and everything, I was saying the

529
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 4: same thing to myself in the back of my mind.

530
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 4: I even used this to you Huntingdon's as an excuse.

531
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, you're complaining about this, but I'm not

532
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 4: acting out totally.

533
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 9: And you know, to your point, all those myths that

534
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 9: I write about in there are those role the justifications

535
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 9: and rationalizations that I use, right, what other myths?

536
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: So for what other myths that our listeners are there

537
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: that you write about.

538
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 9: Things like, you know, time heals all wounds, We'll get

539
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 9: through this when she decides to forgive. You know, those

540
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 9: are just a couple where those are just the things

541
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 9: I was telling myself because I was in such a

542
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 9: shameful place and in such a defensive posture early on,

543
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 9: you know, I would say snarky things like that that really,

544
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 9: at large our culture believes and like that's like, you know,

545
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 9: those are common sayings in the context of marital relationships

546
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 9: that are experiencing difficulty, and I hung on those and

547
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 9: tried to use those as leverage to get Shully to

548
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 9: do things differently and treat me nicer and that kind

549
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 9: of stuff, right, And in retrospect, what I realized now,

550
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 9: you know, fifteen and a half years later, is I

551
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 9: was just trying to make me feel better and I

552
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 9: was really disregarding her pain and her process.

553
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: Of green There's no question then, absolutely hundred percent. I

554
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: mean Mike did the same thing. It was honestly for us.

555
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: I mean, he would be there would be zero empathy

556
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: and defensive because in his brain he was just like, well,

557
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm not acting out, so but I'm like and at

558
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: the end of it, I remember we went to a

559
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: therapist and I said, me, divorcing you now isn't going

560
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: to be because of the affairs. It's going to be

561
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: because of how you're treating me now, with the no

562
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: empathy and the defensiveness and just that that, you know,

563
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: the anger that it's you. You're not like feeling my pain,

564
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: You're not there with me, and it's like you're not

565
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: You're not sitting there with me and empathizing with me.

566
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: You're just saying, well, I'm not cheating. So and that

567
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: was that was I'm like this, I this is why

568
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to divorce you. Michael, like, don't you see

569
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 1: that it's not because it's not because of the affairs.

570
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: It's because of how you're acting right now, which was which.

571
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: His zone was harder to accept because then it's it

572
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 4: feels even more personal because there's not a tangible thing

573
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 4: that I'm maybe a tangible event that happened, you know,

574
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 4: it's just a it's just a series of actions or

575
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 4: reactions over time. That's causing her to feel that way,

576
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: which is almost more personal. And Shelley, I have a

577
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 4: question for you. You know, one of the myths is,

578
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 4: you know, he wouldn't do this if he really loved me.

579
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: Just for you know, listeners and whether male or female

580
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: that are dealing with that, like, what's your advice to them,

581
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: Like what was your mindset like to coming to that

582
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 4: place of realizing, Okay, oh he does still love me.

583
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 4: Just because he did these things doesn't mean he doesn't

584
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 4: he didn't love me.

585
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean that was that was really That's a

586
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 8: huge part of my process was because I really thought

587
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 8: and Jana, I don't know how this how this worked

588
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 8: out for you. It's and let me just kind of

589
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 8: seguey for a second, Jana, you are beautiful. I mean

590
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 8: you are so gorgeous. And so there's a part of

591
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 8: me like, whenever you know, we were invited to be

592
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 8: on your show, I'm like, oh my gosh, Like if

593
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 8: this could happen to you, this could happen to anyone,

594
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 8: Because for me, I felt like I wasn't enough for Jason,

595
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 8: and I felt like if I had been I mean

596
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 8: I kind of went through the list, you know, like

597
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 8: I'm not enough. If I were smarter, had bigger boot,

598
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 8: smaller boots, bigger butt, smaller.

599
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 9: Butt, whatever, you know.

600
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 8: But ultimately where I landed is if I had been sexier,

601
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 8: this would not be my story and this is my

602
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 8: fault because I'm not sexy enough. Fast forward when Jason

603
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 8: and I went to the first therapist when we you know,

604
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 8: after I confronted him and we shared, Hey, here's where

605
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 8: we're at, here's what's going on, he turned and looked

606
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 8: at me and said, Okay, Shelly, why don't you share now?

607
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 8: What did you do to cause Jason to make these choices?

608
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 8: And so that was just the fuel to the fire

609
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 8: of me feeling like this is my fault and if

610
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 8: and I know what you asked Mike was more about like,

611
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 8: you know, clearly he doesn't love me or he wouldn't

612
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 8: have done this. And so again, this was a huge

613
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 8: part of my journey recognizing that these choices Jason made,

614
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 8: while they did affect me and caused a ton of pain,

615
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 8: they actually were not about me. These were about holes

616
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 8: in his heart that and coping mechanisms and ways that

617
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 8: he was trying to deal with the pain in his heart.

618
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 8: In an illegitimate way, and it started well before he

619
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 8: even met me, Yeah, and started in his childhood where

620
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 8: he started to use sex and sexuality to medicate. But again,

621
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 8: it really took me a long time to get to

622
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 8: a place of groundedness and oh, yes, this has hurt me,

623
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 8: but this is not about my inadequacies.

624
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: I think that har thing though for women, because I

625
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: mean I felt the same thing, you know the first time.

626
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: I was just like, it's because I didn't have big

627
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: enough boobs, or because I didn't dress sexy enough, or

628
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: because I didn't wear the sexy launderda bed and so

629
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: it was just I think that's where every woman goes

630
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: is because we don't we immediately go they were you know,

631
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: we weren't sexy enough, or we didn't have that sex appeal,

632
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate that we go there. But it's about

633
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: going on the other side of it, you know, where

634
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: we're at now, knowing that it has nothing to do

635
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: with how we look or or anything like.

636
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 9: That, and that too. Can I say something else about that, creez.

637
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 9: You know, I perpetuated that too because some of the story.

638
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 9: So basically, when everything hit the fan for us and

639
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 9: Hulley confronted me. That was really the second time that

640
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 9: she had done that. She had done it nine months prior,

641
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 9: and I had lied and made excuses and then turned

642
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 9: it on her. And I had told her, hey, if

643
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 9: you would have more sex than have different sets, and

644
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 9: especially if you would initiate sex, then we'll be okay.

645
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 9: So she kind of bought all of that lie and

646
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 9: then and then over that nine month period, she you know,

647
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 9: she changed her wardrobe, changed her the way she talked,

648
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 9: the way she dressed, the way she did things where

649
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 9: we went on vacation. I mean that she went through

650
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 9: and jumping through all the hoops trying to make herself

651
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 9: different to fix me.

652
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: Yep.

653
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 9: And so I think for Scholey and Angel you can

654
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 9: speak to this. I think when we hit the fan

655
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 9: for real and we started into recovery, Sholey ultimately moved

656
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 9: to a place where she was like, I've already tried

657
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 9: to change me, and so that it almost like gave

658
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 9: her a handhold to say, I've already tried to change

659
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 9: me and it didn't work, so now you've got to

660
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 9: change you. That was really important for us.

661
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: I think, you know, that's just you saying that Jason

662
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: is a testament to how impactful just listening you talk

663
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 4: the way you talk, it sounds like the hook, you know.

664
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 4: And for me, what was great about like how you

665
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: how you deliver things and you talk about things, is

666
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: you have like a this this innate way to like

667
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 4: softly call out the mail, you know, the kind of

668
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 4: call call us out, but it almost in in like

669
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: an inviting or respectful way where it's not a shameful way.

670
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: And so you like you're just saying, you know, I

671
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: because I did the same thing to Janna. I tried

672
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 4: to put it on her, like well, why don't you

673
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 4: wear this? Or why don't you wear that?

674
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that. That was the worst thing ever.

675
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: Yep.

676
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: We were sitting in a restaurant and I was like,

677
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: why don't why won't you sleep with me? And he's

678
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: just like, well, why don't you Why don't you come

679
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: to the bedroom with something on rather than just a

680
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: big old T shirt? And I just remember sitting in

681
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: the restaurant and bawling, and I left the restaurant because

682
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: I was just like I thought that that was like sorry,

683
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: Eve chegers me about like I thought that was you know, sexy.

684
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 4: I'm sorry yeah, but you know, I'm really sorry that,

685
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 4: you know, that's one of those things that I've appalled

686
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 4: tenfold to Jana, and I see the pain in it

687
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 4: right now, and I feel the pain because the unfortunate

688
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 4: thing is, and Jason, I know you can relate to

689
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 4: this is the stuff that we said, or the stuff

690
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: that I said to Jana, none of that was even

691
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 4: true when really the thing that I love the most,

692
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 4: And now what's unfortunate is I encourage like my favorite

693
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 4: thing that she wears is a big T shirt to bed.

694
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 4: That's literally my genuinely and completely true, like that's my

695
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 4: favorite thing she wears. But unfortunately, especially early on, because

696
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 4: of the damage that I did in that moment and

697
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: traumatize her from that, like it's hard for her, it's

698
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: hard for her to accept my act my truth now,

699
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: you know. And so we just put ourselves in the situation.

700
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 4: I put myself in the situation where now I'm I

701
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 4: have to like fight against my old self and what

702
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 4: I said and my habits and behaviors and convince her like, no,

703
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 4: this is actually genuine, this is actually true. Yeah.

704
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 8: One of the most healing things has been when I

705
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 8: am triggered or when something comes up and I remember

706
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 8: the pain from the past to be able to vulnerably

707
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 8: share that with Jason, Jana, just like you did with

708
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 8: the three of us and all your listeners, and it

709
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 8: was just so brave of you. And then for Jason

710
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 8: to sit with me in that and to I mean,

711
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 8: whatever it might be, whether it's to hold me or

712
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 8: to just sit next to me, and to experience that

713
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 8: pain with me is one of the biggest gifts that

714
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 8: he has been able to give me on the other

715
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 8: side of all of this. And so I just appreciate,

716
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 8: Like Jana, when you got Kiri and I could hear

717
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 8: the pain, I was like, Okay, Mike, come on right,

718
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 8: you know, because I really think that that we are

719
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 8: fifteen years in and these things still come up, and

720
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 8: it is so important that I am still heard in

721
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 8: that and it actually brings us closer together whenever we

722
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 8: experience something like that.

723
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I know, you said you've been fifteen years,

724
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: So I mean, is that something where it's you know, Jason,

725
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: are you are you always consistently empathetic because I guess

726
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: that's my fear where I'm afraid, because you know, we're

727
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: three years into discovery. I'm afraid. Okay, let's say are

728
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: in ten years I have a trigger that comes up

729
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, God, we're still dealing with this ten

730
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: years later, And that's like, that's my fear that that's

731
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: something that's going to come up, because it's it's not

732
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: gonna I wish it. I wish it. You know, we

733
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: can forget it about it. But I know that's that's

734
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: that's so naive thinking. I know we're going to I

735
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: know I'll have triggers, and you know, as long as

736
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: I communicate it in a healthy way. But I'm afraid

737
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: that he might get edgy about the fact that he

738
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: still has to you know, deal with it.

739
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, so that, you know, one thing's important to note.

740
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 9: So we're fifteen and a half years in, but Shelley

741
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 9: not on the slow track, all right. We're like, I'm

742
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 9: sure for y'all and probably a lot of other people

743
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 9: like that, the process is going to be a whole

744
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 9: lot faster than for us. We just we're just on

745
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 9: slow track. So, you know, I've cycled. There have been

746
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 9: times when I'm Charlie says, hey, I'm triggered, and I

747
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 9: just kind of put my hand on my forehead, and

748
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 9: I'm like, really still right, but but today, by and large,

749
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 9: and Shelley, can you can score my report card on this?

750
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 9: By and large, you know, I've internalized that and embraced

751
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 9: that that that's part of our process, and it's important

752
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 9: for me, for my heart, for my soul to love

753
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 9: her well when she's triggered, whether it was justified or not,

754
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 9: whether it's rational or not, like for me to enter

755
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 9: into her pain with her when she feels that from

756
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 9: here on out, it's just me being a good husband,

757
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 9: regardless of whether I'm in a doghouse so to speak,

758
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 9: or we're paying for past sins, like, it's just good

759
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 9: for me to be a good husband that way by

760
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 9: entering into her pain with her.

761
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I completely agree with that, And I think

762
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 4: you know, the way I've tried to, you know, interpret

763
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 4: that as well, is that's an opportunity, you know, instead

764
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 4: of early on it felt you know, which I understand

765
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: why Janna would still have that fear because of even

766
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 4: early in recovery, I would still have the audacity to say,

767
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 4: because I was still stuck in the hole, I'm not

768
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 4: acting out, so you should trust me. So I was

769
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 4: still stuck in that mindset where you know, I'm not

770
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: physically acting out, you know why, you know, why are

771
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 4: we why are we dealing with this? And you know,

772
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: let's move on. But now I try to and again,

773
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: like you said, Jason, I think Jana can attest to

774
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 4: the port card for majority of the time. I'm We're

775
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 4: able to treat it as an opportunity to show up,

776
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 4: and not just for me, but also for Jana to

777
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 4: an opportunity for her to try to express it or

778
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: articulate it in a healthy way, which doesn't always happen,

779
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 4: which is understandable. And that's my that's my job to

780
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 4: allow her the latitude to however she needs to express

781
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: it or you know, let it out, you know, give

782
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: her the grace to be able to do that.

783
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 9: Right, and you think about, you know, whys that go

784
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 9: through betrayal? Are are grieving? Right? You're on You're on

785
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 9: the other side of the trail, and what you're doing

786
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 9: is grieving. And if you think about this in any

787
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 9: other context, Let's say somebody lost the loved one in

788
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 9: a tragic accident, like, would we put a statute of

789
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 9: limitations on their grieving? No, No, we wouldn't say, hey,

790
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 9: in eleven years, you can't talk about the loss of

791
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 9: your son anymore or the loss of your mother anymore.

792
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 9: Like we would never say that.

793
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 4: That's a great point, but yet.

794
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 9: We want to do that to our wives in this process, like, hey,

795
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 9: there's a point where you can't talk about it anymore.

796
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 9: But if we see it as you know what, they're

797
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 9: still grieving, and grieving is making sense of your story.

798
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 9: And she's gonna be making sense of her story for

799
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 9: the rest of our lives. And that's a good thing.

800
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Shelly, Why did you stay?

801
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 8: That's a great question. I resisted saying. It took me

802
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 8: like eighteen months. Maybe Jason might have a different account

803
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 8: of it, but at least okay, at least eighteen months

804
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 8: before I was able to say okay, I am saying.

805
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 8: And the reason I stayed was Jason made it really

806
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 8: really hard for me to step away from the marriage.

807
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 8: He literally turned, he changed from the inside out, and

808
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 8: I got to this place where I was like, well, dang,

809
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 8: I don't want some other guys you know all of this,

810
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 8: Like I liked who he was on the other side

811
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 8: of this, and it's like, I mean, I knew who

812
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 8: he could be and who God created him to be

813
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 8: and then he and not that it was I mean

814
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 8: we are on this flow track, and not that it

815
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 8: has been perfect by any means, but he, truly he

816
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 8: made it difficult for me to step away because I

817
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 8: fell in love with the man that he changed into.

818
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 8: So that's that's my faith.

819
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 4: I will say to say something I'm sure Jana's thinking,

820
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 4: is you know I've I've even since discovery almost four

821
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 4: years ago, I've still given Jannah plenty of reasons to leave,

822
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: whether it you know, still omission or any kind of

823
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 4: line or relapse or slips or still more justification and rationalization.

824
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 4: I've definitely give her, given her, you know, plenty of

825
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 4: ammunition to leave in the fact that she's still been

826
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 4: strong enough to see enough of a change at times

827
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 4: to you know, still, you know, want to keep trying

828
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 4: and staining.

829
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: Is I mean you're holding on by the skinny skin

830
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,479
Speaker 1: skin that was.

831
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 4: I was for a long time. I was, Yeah, it

832
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 4: really wasn't since the last year that I I've really

833
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: gotten sober. You know, it was just was it a

834
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 4: few weeks ago, I'm about a month ago that it

835
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 4: was my you know, one year sobriety and it's really

836
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 4: been the last year that Janna and I have done

837
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 4: the most amount of work.

838
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's when you tapped into your empathy though.

839
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that's where it was able to switch.

840
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 4: Where I was able to, like you talk about a

841
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 4: lot full.

842
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: Of recovery too, where it's not just middle story. You know,

843
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: it's like you were really like, right, I.

844
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 4: Wasn't living in the middle circle. I wasn't you know,

845
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 4: white knuckling things. I was doing the work. And you know, Jason,

846
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 4: you talk a lot about shame in the book, and

847
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: which again, whether addiction or not, people can attest to.

848
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 4: And so I think I was finally able to let alleviate,

849
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 4: you know, let go of a little bit more of

850
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 4: my shame and tap into more of that empathy.

851
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: Who was whose decision was it to you know, do

852
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: the book. You guys have the Redemptive Living dot com,

853
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: which I want to you know, tell the listeners to

854
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: go to. But was it was it something that were

855
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: you scared about coming out with all of it, or

856
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: or you just kind of wanted to, you know, help people.

857
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: I mean, what was what was your kind of thought

858
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: process with all of that?

859
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 9: You want to speak to that you want me to

860
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 9: speak to that show, Well, we both can.

861
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 8: I'll just say for me, early on, Jason was like,

862
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 8: I want to help other men. I want to help

863
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 8: them experience the freedom that I have. And I was like,

864
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 8: good luck, honey, have fun. I'll I'll be over here

865
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 8: a great time.

866
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 9: I don't want anything.

867
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 8: I don't want anything of that.

868
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 9: No, No, it sounded more like this, I will not

869
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 9: be the poster child for being betrayed.

870
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 8: All right, that's right. Yeah. So initially I didn't want

871
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 8: any part in it, and I was happy in my

872
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 8: career and doing all sorts of other things. But there

873
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 8: was just that still small voice that kept wooing me

874
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 8: toward helping women. And so it's a bit about a

875
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 8: decade ago that I started helping women by facilitating support groups.

876
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 8: And so I don't know, I mean, Jason, I'll let

877
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 8: you speak towards your desire to write the book. But

878
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 8: for me, it was just I'll say, it was just

879
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 8: hard for me to step into this space of helping

880
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 8: others and putting our story out there.

881
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's not what I wanted. Yeah, And I had

882
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 9: been telling our story more and more often, more and

883
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 9: more frequently, and you know, working as working as a

884
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 9: coaching counselor helping people in their journey. I always led

885
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 9: with my story. So the book really came about as like,

886
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 9: this question just comes up every time when somebody calls

887
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 9: our office and says we need help. One of the

888
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 9: questions that always comes up is how will she ever

889
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 9: trust me in? Or how can I ever trust them again?

890
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: Right?

891
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 9: And so what what I found this is, this is

892
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 9: my personal experience, is when I asked that question of

893
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 9: people myself, it was always nebulous, like, well, work hard

894
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 9: and one day she might then there'll be a miracle.

895
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 4: And there was no.

896
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 9: There were no there's no meat on the bone. Does

897
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 9: that make sense? And so I just kind of started

898
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 9: looking at what the heck have we been doing? What

899
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 9: tangible tactical things have we been doing? What what wrong

900
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,760
Speaker 9: ways of thinking have I been operating in that haven't helped?

901
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 9: And which ones have been right thinking that have helped.

902
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 9: And so that was kind of what spawned writing the book,

903
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 9: like let's give people tactical stuff to actually work on

904
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 9: rebuilding trust.

905
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 4: Which again, me personally, I will forever be grateful for

906
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: that because it changed my life. And you know, it's fun.

907
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: To tell the listeners the book again.

908
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, the title of the book is worthy of a

909
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 4: trust and if you deal with any kind of infidelity,

910
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 4: definitely go get it. And some along with that, it's

911
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: you know, Shelley. I commend you a lot too for

912
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 4: age up and on board with it and being willing

913
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: and to adding your you know, your Shelley's thoughts, you know,

914
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: throughout the book because again for me, even when I

915
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 4: was reading it in treatment, which this whole world of

916
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 4: addiction and all of my shame and all my pain

917
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 4: and where it comes from, just I'm just discovering all

918
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 4: of this, but being able to hear your thoughts and

919
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: read your thoughts along with this again help me kind

920
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: of decipher it and put myself allow me to feel

921
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 4: a little bit more empathy and put myself into Janis

922
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 4: shoes of what she might feeling. So I, again I

923
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 4: speak for myself, I personally appreciate you being willing to

924
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: step into that world and you know, give your two

925
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 4: cents and help Jason with the book, because I don't

926
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 4: think it would have been the same without you, honestly,

927
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 4: and I can totally relate with how you felt about,

928
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 4: you know, not wanting to be the poster child for

929
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 4: betrayal or whatever.

930
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wrote a book while I was starting to

931
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: write a proposal, and Mike basically ripped up the entire thing.

932
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: We got into a huge I mean, it was it was,

933
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: it was bad.

934
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, Janna was was writing a book, started to write

935
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 4: a book, and you know, wanted to tell like part

936
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: of it because I wanted to help.

937
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's a reason why this happened, and you know,

938
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: it's already out there in a way that he had

939
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: an affair publicly. So I'm like, let's help people with this.

940
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: And that was my whole because I'm like, this happened,

941
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: people know about it, so let's show people how you

942
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: can rebuild trust, how you can make this work. Where's

943
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 1: the silver lining? And he looked at it as just

944
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: like I don't want anyone to know.

945
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 4: I looked at it as shameful, as just pointing the

946
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 4: finger as put you know, I just felt a blanket

947
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 4: of shame. That's all that I felt. I was like,

948
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 4: I don't want people to talk about this. I don't

949
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 4: want to put you know, gas on the fire. I

950
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 4: don't you know, I don't want any of that. I

951
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 4: wanted to just sweep it on the rug and let

952
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 4: it go away.

953
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: And I was like pleading, like please, like I need

954
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: someone to help relate to me because I feel so

955
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 1: alone and I know I'm not alone, and I need,

956
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: I want this for other women. And it was it

957
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: was battle.

958
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 4: It was this battle until I was able to It

959
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 4: was honestly when we doing the podcast that we started

960
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 4: getting emails. Jana started showing me like direction messages she

961
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 4: would get on her social media, and I slowly started

962
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 4: to kind of get this validation that, wait, we actually

963
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 4: can help people, Like maybe what we're doing is a

964
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 4: good thing. Maybe Janna knew what she was talking about,

965
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 4: and I can just get out of my shame and

966
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 4: address it. And so it wasn't It was just a

967
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 4: few episodes ago that you know, it was speculated for

968
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 4: a long time that I was in sex addiction. I

969
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 4: went to rehab and all of that, but it never

970
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 4: came from Jana or I. So just about a month

971
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 4: ago we decided on the show to address it and

972
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 4: control the narrative and own it. And it was because

973
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 4: on the show we were so open about our life.

974
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 4: We're so open about what we've been through in our

975
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 4: relationship that was like the one last skeleton we had

976
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 4: in the closet that we hadn't talked about. But obviously

977
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 4: it's a major part of our story, so it felt,

978
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 4: you know, inauthentic to not talk about it. It's just

979
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: another way to reach that much more people, that many

980
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 4: more people that may be suffering from the addictive aspect.

981
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 4: So we totally relate to that, and I totally relate

982
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: to that.

983
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but seriously, thank you guys, Just thank you for

984
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: being a light for us too, because that's this is

985
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: you know, we want to help people and you know,

986
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: you guys are showing the way.

987
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 9: Thank you. It is definitely I was going to say,

988
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 9: it's definitely a privilege, like to hear you guys say that, like,

989
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 9: it's a huge privilege to know, and it's also, as

990
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 9: you guys are experiencing, it's also a huge motivator. Yes,

991
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 9: you know, to hear like that our story has impacted

992
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 9: y'all then just makes me want to keep doing the

993
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 9: work to get better and grow and make our marriage stronger.

994
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 9: And it's like everybody wins when we get honest and

995
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 9: authentic about that.

996
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 4: There's no question I'm.

997
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 8: Sitting here, you know, as we're talking. I'm looking at

998
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 8: this quote. I have just put it on my desk

999
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 8: earlier this morning, and it says, we suffer to get well,

1000
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 8: we surrender to whin, we die to live, we give

1001
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 8: it away to keep it. It's from Richard Rore, And

1002
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 8: just as you guys are talking, I'm like, I feel

1003
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 8: like this quote is you know, it's kind of speaking

1004
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 8: to what we're talking about, and just the importance of

1005
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 8: giving away sometimes when we when we share our pain,

1006
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 8: when we share our insecurities, gosh, just the blessing for

1007
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 8: others and and that's how we're able to Jason, what

1008
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 8: you were just saying, like, it makes you want to

1009
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 8: do a better job, It makes you want to be

1010
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 8: a better husband, a better father, et cetera. So I

1011
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 8: think it's cool how that giving back.

1012
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 9: Mike.

1013
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 8: I have a question for you though, because you've mentioned

1014
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 8: a couple of times, so sorry I interview you. Okay,

1015
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 8: So I'm curious because you said, and Janna you mentioned

1016
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 8: just a bit ago, the empathy piece really being the

1017
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 8: turning point for you guys in your healing process, and

1018
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 8: with the women I work with, that seems to be

1019
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 8: such the missing element and a lot of women, like

1020
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 8: the affair is actually not what's going to cause the divorce.

1021
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 8: It's the line. It's the defensiveness, like you guys were saying. So, Mike,

1022
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 8: I'm just curious what helped you go from that defensive

1023
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 8: posture to this posture of it sounds like humility and empathy?

1024
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 8: What like what made it click for you?

1025
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, because that took a while. I mean

1026
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: it's still not perfect.

1027
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 4: I still have my moments because I've always been a defensive,

1028
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 4: kind of short tempered human being. So it's still active

1029
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: thing for me to do, and a lot of my

1030
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: natural reactions are maybe defensive, you know, like just this morning, Yeah,

1031
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 4: just this morning, just because I was Jana had been

1032
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 4: up and was ready to start the day. I was

1033
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 4: just waking up. We just traveled from a different country

1034
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 4: last night, and so Jana was asking me about something.

1035
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 4: I just got defensive about it and it was kind

1036
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 4: of you know. And then a few minutes later, once

1037
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 4: we were away from each other, I texted because I

1038
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 4: was just like what am I doing? Like why was

1039
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 4: I I didn't have to be that way, you know.

1040
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 4: So it's still something I struggle with, but for me,

1041
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: I mean, we Jana and I got to a place

1042
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 4: where she truly gave me like an ultimatum where time

1043
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 4: had passed since the actual infidelity, and so basically she

1044
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 4: confirmed the myth that this is a myth, the whole

1045
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 4: I'm not acting out, Why don't you trust me? She

1046
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 4: confirmed that. She's like, I'm gonna leave you if you

1047
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,720
Speaker 4: do not stop being defensive, if you don't show me empathy,

1048
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: you know, so on and so forth. But I'll still

1049
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: stuck in that mindset of but I'm not acting out

1050
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 4: or I'm not you know, whatever it is. So it

1051
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 4: just she we got into a bad enough place where

1052
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 4: she told that to me, and I realized, like, this

1053
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 4: doesn't have really anything to do with me acting out.

1054
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 4: This has to do with everything else too.

1055
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: But why does it happen? Like I'm just trying to think,

1056
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: like for the guy, like how why is it so

1057
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: hard for the men to be because I mean, I

1058
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: same thing with you, Shelly, Like I get DMS all

1059
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: the time. Like the husband's like wants me to get

1060
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: over it, and you know they don't feel the pain.

1061
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: I don't know why you guys can't sit there with

1062
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: Is it because of the shame?

1063
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: I think yes, one hundred percent, and Jason can speak

1064
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 4: on this too. I think for me it's definitely shame

1065
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 4: and I think it's a biological thing too, where we

1066
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 4: just naturally aren't as nurturing or empathetic as women. So

1067
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: for us, the pride and the ego, that kind of

1068
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 4: neanderthal mindset, we just allow that to get in the

1069
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 4: way because of what society teaches us because maybe I

1070
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 4: were raised.

1071
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: I like the car accident one that you said, we

1072
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: had a therapist or our therapist here in La make

1073
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: you watch something, and I think that helped sometimes too

1074
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: for you for empathy.

1075
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, what was that?

1076
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: It was like, basically, I got into a car accident

1077
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: and I need you to help me. You need to

1078
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: carry me basically, Yeah, because you just you just took

1079
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: off my two legs.

1080
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.

1081
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 9: I think the other aspect of it is, you know,

1082
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 9: kind of conceptually, uh, our emotional maturity as men, our

1083
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 9: emotional maturity kind of stops where our addiction starts. So

1084
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 9: for a lot of us, you know, we were eleven

1085
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 9: twelve years old whenever we were starting into this sexual stop, right,

1086
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 9: and it's at the point where that was really ramping

1087
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 9: up that our emotional maturity got stunted, so like for

1088
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 9: a lot of us guys. And this is not an excuse,

1089
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 9: it's an explanation on excuse. It's like we didn't develop,

1090
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 9: you know, mature and develop into what it means to

1091
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 9: be an emphastic, tender person because of the stuff that's

1092
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 9: been going on in our lives for usually a couple

1093
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 9: of decades.

1094
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 4: Yep.

1095
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 9: So part of our recovery is not only stop acting

1096
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 9: out and and all that stuff, but part of our

1097
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 9: recovery is that emotional maturity and development and empathy is

1098
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 9: a part of that.

1099
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great point. And because it just again

1100
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 4: for me personally, it's every time I had feelings or whatever,

1101
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to handle them, so I acted

1102
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 4: out sexually, right, so instead of confronting them and dealing

1103
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 4: with that, that feeling or pain that you know, just

1104
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 4: went elsewhere, just like anyone with any kind of an addiction.

1105
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, I won't say one other thing about something

1106
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 9: you mentioned there, Jenna. They so much. I hear this

1107
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 9: a lot of people in the culture saying, well, this

1108
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 9: is really about a weak woman. Have you as anybody

1109
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 9: said that to you? You're a weak woman, for saying, oh, yeah.

1110
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: I mean there's some been some mean people that have

1111
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: said things, but yeah, I mean I've I've definitely heard

1112
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: that before. But my I think I'm super strong for

1113
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: saying I think the easiest thing could have been to

1114
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: leave you.

1115
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 9: Totally agree, Yeah, totally.

1116
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: I think it takes a really strong woman to stay.

1117
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 9: It takes more strength and more courage to work through

1118
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 9: the pain. I mean, anytime you see a good man

1119
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 9: in this recovery process, chances of those is a really

1120
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 9: good woman next to him.

1121
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I really want all of us to get together.

1122
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: So can we make this happen? Because I love you guys.

1123
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, you.

1124
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: Guys live in the Denver area.

1125
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, we're in Denver, all right.

1126
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: Well, anytime you guys are in LA or Nashville and

1127
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: foreign Denver, you just let's just stay in contact. And

1128
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: because we think you guys are great and we just

1129
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: cannot thank you enough for this conversation. And I just

1130
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: thank you for everything.

1131
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 4: We can talk to you guys all day, so we

1132
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 4: appreciate your time. And where else can our listeners like

1133
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: you know, tell them real quick about Redemptive Living, nuck

1134
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 4: and so on?

1135
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 9: For Living dot Com that's our website for our minustry

1136
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 9: where we do work helping men, marriages and whys that

1137
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 9: are going through betrayal. And that's all we do, that's

1138
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 9: all we specialize in. Shelley runs groups support groups for

1139
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 9: wives going through it. You can check out her website

1140
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 9: r l forwomen dot com. Uh and we've got resources

1141
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 9: out there. There's books, video curriculum, courses as well as

1142
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 9: obviously one on one help. So if there's a way

1143
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 9: that we can we can help people through the process,

1144
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 9: that's what we're.

1145
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 4: Here to do.

1146
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: I love it. Jason Shelley, thank you guys so much

1147
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: for coming online down.

1148
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 4: Thank you guys so much.

1149
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 8: You guys, thank you, Honor, have.

1150
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 4: A great one too. Before before we go on, before

1151
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 4: we go on and take a break for a second,

1152
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 4: there's one thing I want to read to and this

1153
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 4: is this stuck with me. I remember I read it first.

1154
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: Are you gonna read it?

1155
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 4: No, we're gonna take a break on one second. I

1156
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 4: just want to read this for food for thought for

1157
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 4: the men or women out there that are the perpetrators,

1158
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 4: the one in my shoes. Okay, and this is the

1159
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 4: end of there forward and worthy of a trust. So

1160
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 4: it took a better part of five years to feel

1161
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 4: like we were stabilized. It took seven years for Shelley

1162
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 4: to say she actually respected me. Took eight years for

1163
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 4: her to say that if we had to go through

1164
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 4: it all over again, she would still choose me. Took

1165
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 4: nine years for her to say that my sexual addiction

1166
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 4: was one of the best things that ever happened to her.

1167
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 4: And today, as I write, this is a little over

1168
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 4: ten years since everything hit the fan, and they're in

1169
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 4: an amazing place. So that's just you know that I

1170
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 4: always would reread that, and as much as I acted

1171
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 4: against that in all of this kind of recovery process

1172
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 4: is it's a good reminder that this isn't a quick fix.

1173
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 4: It takes time, takes investment. But take a break.

1174
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, now that I am not pregnant anymore, I

1175
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: have got to the dreaded period.

1176
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 7: But things are made easy with Lola.

1177
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1178
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,160
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1179
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1180
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1181
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1182
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1184
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1189
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1191
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1192
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1193
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:38,120
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1194
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: And for every purchase, Lola donates feminine care products to

1195
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,760
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1196
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,160
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1199
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1200
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1201
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1225
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1226
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's hard talking about Yeah, it's it's

1227
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: like it's tough, but they're so sweet and I just,

1228
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: I just I love that there's other people out there

1229
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: too that are showing people that there is, if there's

1230
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 1: a will, there's a way. I just I'm just the

1231
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: empathy piece is very interesting that she you know, because

1232
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: so many women, it's just there's so many times I

1233
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: just want to like shake you and be like just

1234
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: sit here with me and like cry and say you're sorry,

1235
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: and you know, Yeah, it's an interesting piece. But yeah,

1236
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: that was a They were really sweet. I'd love to

1237
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,439
Speaker 1: I'd love to get to know them more.

1238
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that was really really cool, I think

1239
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 4: for both of us.

1240
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: And it's got to be like full circle for.

1241
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 4: You, it's super full circle and kind of surreal that

1242
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 4: I was able to talk to again. You know me,

1243
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 4: I'm not a huge reader. I'm trying to become more

1244
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 4: of a reader. Yeah, you know, and so for this

1245
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 4: to be the first book, and I again, like I

1246
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 4: said numerous times now, I don't know the last time

1247
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 4: I read a book cover to cover, and I read

1248
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 4: it twice when I was in treatment. You know, it

1249
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 4: did change my.

1250
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: Life's kinda feel pretty good then, just that you just

1251
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: talked to the author. Yeah, all rights.

1252
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: Mark, we got some good ones. I am in a

1253
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 2: similar situation to you and Mike. Six months before my wedding,

1254
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 2: I had discovered that by now husband has a gambling problem.

1255
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: He said he was just young and dumb and wasn't

1256
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 2: doing it anymore. Well, it's almost two years into our

1257
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 2: marriage and seven months pregnant. I stumbled across a credit

1258
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 2: card statement saw the amount of money he had charged

1259
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: to it, more than we could afford. He blamed it

1260
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 2: on gambling, but this time it felt different. The names

1261
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 2: he sent Amazon gift cards to see odd and were

1262
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 2: women's names. Over the next two months, I found about

1263
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: four more credit cards that were accumulating death that was

1264
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: beyond what we could fix. He decided to go to

1265
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 2: a few gamblers anonymous meetings and began seeing a therapist.

1266
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: But I knew he was hiding something, so I went

1267
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 2: into his email and discovered he was having girls send

1268
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: him individualized videos. He said he felt like he never

1269
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: got to experience that life, because we've been together since

1270
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 2: we were fifteen, and he felt that this was a

1271
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: better option than cheating because it wasn't physical. I can't

1272
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 2: believe he spent thousands of dollars on these women. It's

1273
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: been a little over a month now and we're both

1274
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: doing counseling. I don't know how to move forward with

1275
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: our relationship, Mike. I want to better understand the mind

1276
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: of an addict. Why did he get so invested in

1277
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: this lifestyle when I was here for him all along?

1278
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 4: She is anonymous, I mean addictive behavior for sure. Is

1279
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 4: his excuses are just rationalization, justification that they are excuses

1280
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 4: the whole I didn't ex experience this or that. I mean,

1281
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 4: you guys been get it that long. He made a choice,

1282
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 4: so there's nothing to blame. You're not to blame for this.

1283
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 4: It was him just choosing. He made the choices, and

1284
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 4: you know, whatever is going on with him. I mean

1285
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 4: again kind of Jane and I've been talking about, like

1286
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 4: for men or for myself or whoever, to be able

1287
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 4: to tap into empathy or to be able to go

1288
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 4: and talk to somebody about internal feelings easier said than

1289
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 4: done for for a male. I mean, I'm sure there's

1290
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 4: females that have that problem too, but he just found

1291
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 4: an outlet for whatever he's dealing with. It's not healthy.

1292
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: No, and you didn't do anything wrong, like Mike said,

1293
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Yeah, don't be like don't and don't put

1294
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: blame on what he said, Well, we been together since

1295
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: we're fifteen like that, don't put blame. Don't blame yourself

1296
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: for that. That's not nothing wrong.

1297
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: Right in the line, why did he do this when

1298
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: I was here for him all along? I feel like

1299
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 2: she is starting to put some on herself.

1300
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 4: There, right or do that right? And I'm not even

1301
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 4: going to sit here and say, well, how did he

1302
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 4: know that you were there for him like you should?

1303
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 4: Did you tell him? I'm not even gonna say that,

1304
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 4: because that's not it. If you've been together for fifteen years,

1305
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 4: like I don't know how long they've been together. I mean,

1306
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 4: I mean since they're fifteen. I'm sorry, you've been together

1307
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 4: since they're fifteen. I mean, they know they're there for

1308
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 4: each other.

1309
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: So I love that you guys are in counseling. And

1310
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that I will say I

1311
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: don't like the fact that he says it's not cheating

1312
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 1: because that is still cheating. Oh yeah, even though you

1313
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: didn't physically he wasn't physical with those women, that's still.

1314
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 4: Outside, that's stepping out inside the marriage.

1315
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: So I don't let him manipulate that, yeah, because that's

1316
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: not go to counseling. Well, yeah, they're in.

1317
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, he should see a c SET certified sex

1318
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 4: addiction therapists. Yeah, and he needs to not only a

1319
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 4: couples counseling like you guys are doing, but he needs

1320
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 4: to go to visual counseling and figure out and dig

1321
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 4: to see where these feelings are coming from.

1322
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: It's great that he's going to Gambles Anonymous, but I

1323
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: feel like there's more.

1324
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah here, Yeah, there's a personal You know.

1325
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I've known plenty of guys that are

1326
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 4: in the twelve set program I'm in that come from

1327
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 4: AA or NA or whatever, and they realize, come to

1328
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 4: realize that the sex aspect is the root of maybe

1329
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 4: what drove.

1330
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: Them to something love to For slaw, the root is

1331
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: always love, you know, the most most roots are always

1332
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: about love and the lack thereof and your family of origin.

1333
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 4: So so yeah, so it's you know, great, they went

1334
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 4: to gamblers anonymous, But that's just him believing his own

1335
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 4: lies that it was gambling.

1336
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he needs it's deeper than that, needs to admit

1337
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: that he has a real problem here. There's it's deeper

1338
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 2: than that until he admits that. I think we got

1339
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: a rough road right head.

1340
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 4: Which he needs. That's why he needs to go to

1341
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 4: a se set.

1342
01:05:58,720 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 2: And that's by the way, I feel like that sayings

1343
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: use a lot of cheaters use we've been together a

1344
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 2: whole live and never got to experience other women that

1345
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, but it's no different than

1346
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 2: any other in fidelity.

1347
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 4: I'll say this, and I remember now you rereading that

1348
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 4: part what I want to say when we got this

1349
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 4: email last week. You didn't have time that whole I

1350
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 4: didn't get to experience. Tell you relay this message your husband.

1351
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 4: That experience is not worth any of it. That experience sucks.

1352
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 4: It's empty, it's miserable, it's lonely, and it's depressing. Now

1353
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 4: it's hard for people to hear that from somebody else,

1354
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 4: be like, yeah, well, because you experience you say that nice,

1355
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 4: so they think they want to experience it. Effing it sucks.

1356
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: Well, it's not worth it. You've got a baby on

1357
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: the way here. There's not a family here that you're

1358
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 2: going to destroy.

1359
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 4: And it's not worth that that life isn't going to

1360
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 4: make you happier than your wife, than your kids, or

1361
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 4: anything like that.

1362
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 1: Again, that's where it's there's something so much deeper than

1363
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: just going to a gamble, right, It falls deeper than that.

1364
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 5: All right, This is from Brittany.

1365
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 2: My fiance and I were actually at your live podcast

1366
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 2: here in LA. I wanted to ask a question during

1367
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 2: the show, but my fiance gets embarrassed, so I refrained.

1368
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 2: After we left, he opened up and said, we have

1369
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: a lot of issues. We just got engaged and have

1370
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 2: started to plan the wedding. We are stuck in a

1371
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: very difficult spot. My fiance is religious and I am not.

1372
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 2: I want to get married outdoors, but it's important to

1373
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 2: him and his family to get married in the Catholic Church.

1374
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 5: Neither one of us is budgeting.

1375
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 2: I've suggested we go see a therapist, not only for

1376
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: our other issues, but for this particular subject.

1377
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 5: He says, we can't afford to see a therapist. What

1378
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 5: do we do?

1379
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: Well? First of all, thanks for coming to our live podcast.

1380
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: Brett Brett not affording to be able to go to

1381
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: a therapist, I think is something where you need to

1382
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: budget because there are therapists that do take insurance, so

1383
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: I think, and also, okay, maybe we just budget out

1384
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: the month where you kind of it because it's important

1385
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: and being saying that, I understand it can be expensive.

1386
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 4: I do.

1387
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: I do have empathy for that. But at the same time,

1388
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: it's your marriage, and you need to talk to somebody

1389
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: and sit down because it's you know, it's important, it's

1390
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: your marriage. Just because you know, saying that we candn't

1391
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: afford it, your wedding's going to be expensive. So maybe

1392
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: cut down on one thing so you can go see

1393
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,560
Speaker 1: a therapist, right instead of having a cake do cupcakes?

1394
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, and then to cut down on costs

1395
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: so that way you can see a therapist, because you

1396
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: won't have the successful marriage if you don't. If you

1397
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: have if you have all these issues and the only

1398
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: reason you're not going is because you don't have the money,

1399
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: that's that's not a reason in my personal opinion.

1400
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, again, we're empathetic to the fact that

1401
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 4: it is expensive. We totally understand that. And but again,

1402
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 4: like Janna said, break down your expenses for that, for

1403
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 4: how they are monthly, be like, all right, we can

1404
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 4: not eat out this many times because we want to

1405
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 4: use that money too, see a therapist. Whatever it is.

1406
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:05,520
Speaker 4: It's tough that issue.

1407
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: I feel like we kind of ran into this a

1408
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: little bit because your your family's more religious, right.

1409
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 4: But I didn't care about getting married in.

1410
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: Church, right, but I know your family cared about it.

1411
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: Maybe do an outdoor reception, Yeah, like an outdoor reception

1412
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: and just kind of meet in the middle.

1413
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 4: That's interesting, you know, because that is Unfortunately, it is

1414
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 4: tough because and just look at it this way. A church,

1415
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 4: depending on the venue, can still be very beautiful, gorgeous, gorgeous.

1416
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe maybe it would rain the day that you

1417
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: were going to be outside.

1418
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 4: Right, you know, maybe so maybe because it just says

1419
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 4: get married in the Catholic Church, not necessarily their church.

1420
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 4: So find a beautiful Catholic cathedral near you or with

1421
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 4: something like that. Find something that's gorgeous that will do weddings,

1422
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 4: and do it there.

1423
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 2: But this is gonna have to be compromising. Yeah, I'm

1424
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 2: moving forward in all things.

1425
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. I'm like, there, maybe this is

1426
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: something a little bit bigger than inside outside. Yes, it

1427
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: seems like when you say other issues with issues and

1428
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: quotations that seems to not be about the church. Let's

1429
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: just say that.

1430
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 2: You're gonna be raising kids. You don't want to be

1431
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 2: fighting about that every Sunday morning. You don't want to battle.

1432
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: Let me tell you save up the money for therapy,

1433
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: because when you do get married, got to go to therapy, all.

1434
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 2: Right, Taylor, And this one's last one. My boyfriend and

1435
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: I have been together for two and a half years.

1436
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 2: We lived together, and he bought a car six months

1437
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: ago that we share. Last week, I got rear ended.

1438
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: It was not my fault. The other person had insurance. However,

1439
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: when I told my boyfriend, his first question was were

1440
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 2: you on the phone? And his second question was is

1441
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 2: the car okay? He didn't even ask me if I

1442
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 2: was okay. He was extremely mad at me and hung

1443
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: up on me. Oh, it was a pretty dramatic experience

1444
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 2: that shook me up. And it's just a car. It's

1445
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 2: a generic sedan, it's nothing fancy. When I told my

1446
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 2: boyfriend how mad I was, his response was I've worked

1447
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 2: my ass off for that car. My blood, sweat and

1448
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 2: tears to earn that car. I feel like we're not

1449
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 2: going to see eyed eye on this. Am I in

1450
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 2: the wrong?

1451
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not in the wrong for asking that.

1452
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 1: He should have asked if you were okay? I mean

1453
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: you got to a car accident. I can understand a

1454
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 1: man's passion for his car. I mean, like if I

1455
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,679
Speaker 1: leave a gum wrapper in Mike's car, like he loses

1456
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: his mind. If I leave water bottles. I mean like

1457
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: he's men men in their cars. It's like their prize possession.

1458
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: But and we should be their prize possessions. But you know,

1459
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: do you just that's a tough one because again, I

1460
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: know how much you love your car. But at the

1461
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: same time, I feel like you would still ask if

1462
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: I was okay, if I if I hurt your truck. Yeah, oh,

1463
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 1: clearly Mike doesn't believe this, Taylor.

1464
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 4: No, I know I would. The first thing I'd ask

1465
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 4: is are you okay?

1466
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: And then also how bad's my car?

1467
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 4: Yes, it would be it would be difficult to have

1468
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 4: an appropriate length pause in between these two questions.

1469
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 9: Jesus.

1470
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 4: But I'm just I'm just being honest. I'm just you know,

1471
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,600
Speaker 4: I would, I would genuinely care because and that's the

1472
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 4: thing he should realize. A car is just a car.

1473
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 4: You can replace that. I understand, work hard for it,

1474
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 4: worked your ass off to pay for it, get that,

1475
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 4: but it's replaceable. Your girlfriend is.

1476
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: Not, or well maybe in his mind it is you

1477
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: are dealer.

1478
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 4: No, that's he should have I mean.

1479
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: You should have said if you're okay. That's not very nice,

1480
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 1: and you know what, you should go to him and

1481
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: from a very empathetic place and be like, hey, I

1482
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: am really sorry about your car, but I want you

1483
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: to hurt my feelings that you didn't even ask if

1484
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 1: I was okay, So just come to him and talk

1485
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 1: to him from a good place.

1486
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and validate. I understand that you work really.

1487
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: Hard for his car, and I'm so sorry. I honestly,

1488
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: it's not like she meant to freaking nothing wrong. It's

1489
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 1: not like she meant to freaking do it.

1490
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,440
Speaker 4: And I will say she said she was rear ended. Yeah,

1491
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 4: so that's her fault, right, so that I can understand

1492
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 4: if she ran it in the back of somebody, Yeah,

1493
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 4: I would. That's when I'll definitely be like, are you okay, okay,

1494
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 4: you're fine? Were you on your phone? Like, what were

1495
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 4: you doing right, because that pissed me off.

1496
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 8: Right.

1497
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 4: She's rerounded, right, So yeah, Taylor, you have every right

1498
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 4: to be pissed off at him for being pissed off

1499
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,160
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1509
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 4: introduced three new signature lattes, Blueberry Chris, Caramel Craze, and Cocamoca.

1510
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 4: Stop by your Niars Duncan to try one today. Duncan

1511
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 4: has over fifty locations in the Greater LA Area. Odds

1512
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 4: are there's a great one near you.

1513
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: That was a good show.

1514
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 4: How are you feeling?

1515
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm so tired?

1516
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 4: Is that what it is?

1517
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty tired.

1518
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, because I know, like you know, some of

1519
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 4: the stuff talking to Jason and Shelley, you know, brings

1520
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 4: up stuff. Yeah, but I felt some Well.

1521
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 1: No, it's hard. I don't. Honestly, I think I'm I'm

1522
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 1: so tired. I could like ball my eyes out right

1523
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 1: now because I think there's a lot of emotions, but

1524
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: I think the majority that is I'm just tired. So

1525
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 1: when I'm tired, maybe I could eat more triggered easily,

1526
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 1: because I can.

1527
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 4: Tell you've held back some emotion.

1528
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: It's because I yeah, it's because I think I'm just

1529
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 1: like overtired, and I don't want to like cry fast

1530
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: right now on wine down. So I'm good, overwhelmed because

1531
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: everything's good. We're good. It's just you know, I think

1532
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: when I'm tired, maybe more things come up for me.

1533
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: But I am thanks.

1534
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 4: Man, more things come up for you, And I'm here

1535
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 4: for you. If you want to talk.

1536
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: Later, yeah, I'll probably cry later.

1537
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 4: Okay, We're gonna have a right later wind out. You

1538
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 4: guys want to join us

1539
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 6: M HMM,