Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello everybody, and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our our
Speaker 1: little podcast about the representation of women intersectionally in movies.
Speaker 1: Today we are unlocking an episode from our may Treon
Speaker 1: aka Patreon aka Matrion. It's an episode about the movie
Speaker 1: nine to five with a guest Slash our producer Sophie Lichterman.
Speaker 1: And the reason we are unlocking this episode is because
Speaker 1: I am releasing a podcast for the next two months
Speaker 1: every Monday called at Cast, which is all about the
Speaker 1: Kathy comics by Kathy guys White. I am very excited.
Speaker 1: It was also produced by Sophie Lichterrman, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of just a look back at those comics. I think
Speaker 1: that they're very generally misunderstood and mischaracterized as being anti
Speaker 1: feminist or somehow regressive. When um, I've read every single
Speaker 1: one and there's a lot of really good stuff in there.
Speaker 1: It's it was. It ran for almost thirty five years, um,
Speaker 1: and I am it's it's literally, well it's not as all.
Speaker 1: It's it's because it ended ten years ago, but you know,
Speaker 1: it ran for a long time, and and and it
Speaker 1: grew and changed a lot with the times, much like you, Kaitlin,
Speaker 1: thank you. And I think it is like I truly
Speaker 1: have been fully read Pilt by Kathy comics. I think
Speaker 1: that they're a really interesting gateway to discussion. So the
Speaker 1: show starts by talking about, um, what happens in the
Speaker 1: comics and the common misconceptions around it. UM, I interview
Speaker 1: Kathy guys White, who made the comics every day for
Speaker 1: thirty five years, and then it kind of takes a
Speaker 1: turn into talking about how the comic comments on the
Speaker 1: kind of jagged progression of feminism in America during the
Speaker 1: times that it was coming out, which we talk about
Speaker 1: all the time on this show. But it's a very
Speaker 1: like day by day chronicle, so it's really interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: There's an episode that is about how it comments on
Speaker 1: diet culture and the pressures to conform to conventional beauty
Speaker 1: standards and how that is a and a ridiculous expectation
Speaker 1: thus act UH. There's a lot of commentary on consumerism.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff about how American men kind
Speaker 1: of interpreted the games that women made during these years,
Speaker 1: and there's just a lot of interesting stuff. It is
Speaker 1: UH an imperfect comic for sure, and I try to
Speaker 1: kind of fill in the blanks of what it's not
Speaker 1: referencing and not discussing. And there's a lot of interviews
Speaker 1: with um with artists. I interviewed UH fifteen boomer moms
Speaker 1: about their their experiences and lives, and there's a whole
Speaker 1: episode about boomers as well. So I hope you listen
Speaker 1: to it. It's called ac cast because Kathy says act
Speaker 1: a lot. It is spelled A A C K cast.
Speaker 1: Or you can just search my name Jamie Loftus and
Speaker 1: it will also pop up. The first episode came out
Speaker 1: June and the rest of the episodes are going to
Speaker 1: be coming out on Mondays. And so that is why
Speaker 1: we are releasing five in eighties Working Girl, Deeply Flawed Classic.
Speaker 1: That's my little spiel. I love it and I I'm
Speaker 1: very excited to listen. At the time that we're recording this,
Speaker 1: it has not come out yet. Come out yet, Just
Speaker 1: so you know listeners, little peek behind the curtain. Um yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1: So with that in mind, because this is a Matreon episode,
Speaker 1: we didn't do the you know, our general show intro,
Speaker 1: so real quick, this is our podcast in which we
Speaker 1: examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens. We use the
Speaker 1: Bechtel tests simply as a jumping off point. That, of course,
Speaker 1: is a media metric created by Alison Bechtel, who I
Speaker 1: talked about quite a bit in the Cathy podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because she kind of, like, you know, provided at the
Speaker 1: queer perspective that was never represented in the funny pages
Speaker 1: of the newspaper in the eighties. They're sorry. It all
Speaker 1: goes back to Cathy Baby Wow. Oh my goodness. Um. So,
Speaker 1: it's of course a media metric in which are this
Speaker 1: is our rendition on the Bechtel test. Two people of
Speaker 1: any marginalized gender must have names. They must speak to
Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man, and ideally,
Speaker 1: for our purposes, it's a meaningful, narratively significant conversation. The bar.
Speaker 1: We keep raising the bar basically and also according to
Speaker 1: recent iTunes reviews, we've been fielding. Uh, we've we've think
Speaker 1: we got a one star review because someone didn't like
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test and had never listened to our show
Speaker 1: and also didn't seem to know what the Bucktel test was.
Speaker 1: What a nightmayor um. So yeah, we're we're unlucky. This
Speaker 1: episode from our Matreon. Uh, this episode was recorded in
Speaker 1: when when was it was it? It was sometime in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, okay um, And so we just wanted to
Speaker 1: acknowledge that in this episode. This was prior to us
Speaker 1: um getting more educated on ablest language as it pertains
Speaker 1: to mental illness, and so we just wanted to do
Speaker 1: a quick trigger warning that those words such as uh, crazy, stupid,
Speaker 1: et cetera do appear in this episode. We've talked about
Speaker 1: this many times on the show before, and we'll also
Speaker 1: include links in this episode as well, because we always
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we're acknowledging that that further
Speaker 1: stigmatizes mental illness in many many ways, and it's something
Speaker 1: that we have completely phased out of the show and
Speaker 1: out of our own vocabulary, and we're always encouraging our
Speaker 1: listeners to learn more and to make an active effort
Speaker 1: to do so yourself. No better, do better. Links in
Speaker 1: the description baby, I mean speaking of learning and growing?
Speaker 1: Am I right? I mean I mean and and Um.
Speaker 1: This episode is like a little more informal in tone
Speaker 1: because it appeared on our Matreon. If this is if
Speaker 1: this more kind of kick back feel to an episode
Speaker 1: is fun for you, check it out. It's at patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Backdelcast. We post two bonus episodes around
Speaker 1: a theme each and every month. I think what was
Speaker 1: the companion movie to Uh? It was Working Girl? Yes, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we did like Working Girl November like something like that.
Speaker 1: So that's where we choose ridiculous themes and actually followed
Speaker 1: through on them. So good for us, good for us, amazing.
Speaker 1: It's currently the third Portman July, I think. Um, So
Speaker 1: with that, enjoy this unlocked episode on nine to five
Speaker 1: del Cast dun Dune. Yeah, I wanted to to stop
Speaker 1: sacrifice all the momentum. High matrons, Hi matrons, it's eyes,
Speaker 1: it's us. We're in the studio this time. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is actually it's it's kind of fucking with me because
Speaker 1: I feel so formal and yet it's not because it's
Speaker 1: a Matreon it is usually we do this in a bed,
Speaker 1: right my bed, and uh, usually we're horizontal, Yes, just
Speaker 1: lying down all you know whatever, just had lunch usually
Speaker 1: and really really charmed life we're living right now. Um,
Speaker 1: but today we we really took it upon ourselves to
Speaker 1: leave Caitlin's house and here we are. Here, we are
Speaker 1: in the studio and keep it loose. We're going to
Speaker 1: keep it loose. Here's the thing. The reason that we're
Speaker 1: in the studio is that we have a guest this
Speaker 1: time on our Matreon episode of it No Um. She
Speaker 1: is a friend of ours. She is the mother of
Speaker 1: Anderson the Dog, and she works nine to five at
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio as a producer of podcasts, including the
Speaker 1: Beckdel Cast. It's so Bilich German. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: Well we hi, guys, Hi, thanks for being here. I'm
Speaker 1: so nervous. Don't be nervous. I'm going to be nervous.
Speaker 1: Yeah we're mean. I think that, Yeah, we're I think
Speaker 1: we've really proven ourselves to be untenable. Well, I just
Speaker 1: know that if I funk it up, you're going to
Speaker 1: fire me. Well you said, fuck you have to. Sorry
Speaker 1: we are only non swearing. Um, here's my money and
Speaker 1: also fuck that wow Okay, And she's off aggressively cursing
Speaker 1: one minute in. I don't think we've ever had a
Speaker 1: guest incriminate themselves really quite this fast, but um, please,
Speaker 1: there has to be a first one. Thank you for
Speaker 1: doing this. So we're talking about nine to five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a classic classic, and it's one of your favorite movies.
Speaker 1: I think it's all right. It really just describes my ethos. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a huge Fonda fan, and who doesn't
Speaker 1: love Lily and who doesn't love Dolly. It's just like
Speaker 1: a great trifecta. It truly is. So when when did
Speaker 1: you first see this movie? I first saw with my mom.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly. It's been a while. I've probably
Speaker 1: seen this movie like ten times. It's one of my faves. Um,
Speaker 1: it's my ringtone. Good. You are currently wearing a nine
Speaker 1: to shirt and one does for a nine podcast of course,
Speaker 1: and then you're also sporting a nine to five sticker
Speaker 1: on your laptop. Yeah, it's mostly just like a Jedi
Speaker 1: mind trick for one. Jack O'Brien has not seen nine
Speaker 1: to five so does not understand any of my passive
Speaker 1: aggressive nine to five jobs. He kept, So we all
Speaker 1: just watched it together in the studio and he kept
Speaker 1: turning around, being like, is this an action movie? Because
Speaker 1: he would like turn around during that scene where like
Speaker 1: Jane Fonda is like chasing Heart with a gun or
Speaker 1: like when with the lasso. You're just like, in a
Speaker 1: way it is yeah, way, I mean wrong, pay wrong.
Speaker 1: I can't know. Once you're here history my hear story story.
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with this movie. I didn't see
Speaker 1: it for the first time until probably like a year
Speaker 1: or two ago. I've seen it a couple of times
Speaker 1: in that span of time, and I remember the first
Speaker 1: chunk of it very well and the last chunk of
Speaker 1: it very well, and then I never remember what happens
Speaker 1: in the middle because it just gets so wild and
Speaker 1: like fast paced and like things happen that you're like
Speaker 1: that I was absolutely not expecting to happen. So I like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens to my brain, but I
Speaker 1: never remember until I'm like, oh my gosh, I forgot
Speaker 1: how wild this movie gets. But you know it's it's
Speaker 1: a fun romp and I can't wait to talk about it, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what about you? This is my first time seeing this movie.
Speaker 1: Somehow I don't really Yeah, I don't know why because
Speaker 1: it's so thoroughly up my alley. And I've been a
Speaker 1: Jane Fonda stand for a long time. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that this was how Jane Fonda and
Speaker 1: Lily Tomlin like I first got tight because I'm a
Speaker 1: grace and Frankie stands in every episode multiple times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. It's good to go back to see and
Speaker 1: and this movie, Like, I mean, I think in most
Speaker 1: regards like really holds up in a way that's like
Speaker 1: almost kind of depressing because you're just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: these are all still the same things. When I say yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm also like crying. Yeah, but it's really funny and
Speaker 1: like really well done. And I man and and and
Speaker 1: as Caitlin said, romp and half and a half, I
Speaker 1: mean it's not a Fonda fan at this moment. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's good chance right now you're listening to it, Jane
Speaker 1: Fonda just got arrested. Jess got arrested first standing up
Speaker 1: for the environment. She's like truly like one of the
Speaker 1: like shining Hollywood examples of like using your privileged for
Speaker 1: good and like backing it up that Jane Fonda she
Speaker 1: arrests photo I definitely have a T shirt with that on.
Speaker 1: But it's like one of my one of my favorite,
Speaker 1: like which which arrested one when she had the clute
Speaker 1: bangs you know what I'm talking. Yeah, and then we
Speaker 1: have a sweatshirt with that with that on it. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's cool. That story is super interesting too. Why she
Speaker 1: got arrested was that when she was doing Vietnam War protesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then then the government was like she was drugs
Speaker 1: and she's like, you literally just don't want me making
Speaker 1: any more like protest speech. These are vitamins. I mean.
Speaker 1: She was absolutely like dragged and abused by the media
Speaker 1: and by fucking everyone for like decades and decades and decades.
Speaker 1: She's the best Jane Fonda appreciation. If you haven't seen
Speaker 1: that HBO documentary, please grow up. I gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: Still so sorry. She also dated Ted You know, everyone
Speaker 1: contains multitudes. Sometimes you date an evil billionaire and it's fine.
Speaker 1: We don't know. The first the first time I heard
Speaker 1: jan Fonda's name was when my mom was fully roasting
Speaker 1: my dad for taking her aerobics class. When I really what,
Speaker 1: your dad took Jane Fonder's aerobics class? Yeah, they did.
Speaker 1: Like did like Jane Fondas aerobics and him and his
Speaker 1: friend would go and my mom was like, your dad
Speaker 1: used to do look, and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: who's this woman that is making my father do aerobics
Speaker 1: and like how do I meet her? And laugh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my first fond deciding. You know, do you remember
Speaker 1: Carmen Electrics stripped Tease workout because I definitely had those
Speaker 1: DV googling. We were a Richard Simmons family. Well, this
Speaker 1: wasn't a family thing that my family wouldn't do it together,
Speaker 1: gather on the television like my family did. He as
Speaker 1: a solo artist who had broken away from my family
Speaker 1: doing Carmon Electric strip tease. How did you wear this? Outfit?
Speaker 1: Were pretty fun. I love workout video. She has like
Speaker 1: in everything, she's like angelic and has like this like
Speaker 1: I recognize these covers like early two thousands, like this
Speaker 1: when she's in front of a bed. I support that.
Speaker 1: I used to watch the Fitness Channel really early in
Speaker 1: the morning before school. I used to do this workout
Speaker 1: with someone, this this really buff guy named Glade and
Speaker 1: then he'd be like it's called like wake up with Glad,
Speaker 1: and then you just like walk around a lot and
Speaker 1: then he'd be like good job, and he was like Slovenian.
Speaker 1: And that HBO documented didn't didn't it say that Jane
Speaker 1: Fonda didn't get a single dime from those Rubics videos either.
Speaker 1: It was all like like as like, oh, I forget
Speaker 1: I would have to fact, I think that that that
Speaker 1: does ring. I mean, she like gives a lot away.
Speaker 1: She and she also there's all these recent pictures of
Speaker 1: her because she's gotten gotten arrested multiple times, were going
Speaker 1: to climate change protests. Are you're talking about the one
Speaker 1: where she's wearing the red jacket and her tongue is
Speaker 1: out because everything I want that you can tell like
Speaker 1: she's like get like getting dolled up and she goes
Speaker 1: out in prentests and she gets arrested and it's all
Speaker 1: very exciting. What a queen. Lily Tomlin is an icon
Speaker 1: and there everyone's an icon, three of them Lily Tomlin icon.
Speaker 1: She's great, Dolly Partoner is great. Lily almost didn't do
Speaker 1: this movie, but her wife talked her into it. She
Speaker 1: because she had just gotten done with I Forget what
Speaker 1: film and was like super fatigued and had called and
Speaker 1: been like no, sorry, like I'm adam, and then her
Speaker 1: wife with her wife was like no, no, no, you
Speaker 1: want to do this, and she's like, really glad she did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk more about it, shall we. Let's do it
Speaker 1: the recap if I may please? Oh my god? Is
Speaker 1: that the format of the show. Yeah, we want to
Speaker 1: make sure we keep okay. So we're in New York City.
Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? No? Not not once? And Judy
Speaker 1: Burnley that's Jane Fonda's character, is recently divorced and she
Speaker 1: has just gotten her first ever job at a big
Speaker 1: company called Consolidated. We meet Violet Newstead that's Lily Tomlin.
Speaker 1: She shows Judy around. Judy meets roz Um, who is
Speaker 1: not the receptionist from Monsters, Inc. Oh but what kind
Speaker 1: of at the same time, is same energy? Same energy?
Speaker 1: Has those I will kill you bangs? Actually? I think
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would, I would I prefer ros
Speaker 1: from Monsters, saying personally, yeah, that character's name also Rods.
Speaker 1: Yeah about that? Yeah, wow, Maybe that's that's homage. Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, who knows. We can't go giving
Speaker 1: Pixar too much credit. But Ross is on Violet's case
Speaker 1: about something about the you know, desk decorations, dress code,
Speaker 1: all this stuff like big crap that doesn't actually matter, right,
Speaker 1: And then Jude meets her new boss, Mr. Hart, who sucks.
Speaker 1: He's a piece of ship. He's a sexist pig. We
Speaker 1: find that out right away. And then she also meets
Speaker 1: Dori Lee that's Dolly Parton Mr Hart's assistant. And there's
Speaker 1: a rumor going around among the women in the office
Speaker 1: that Dori Ley is sleeping with Mr Hart. Lies. It's lies.
Speaker 1: We find out what's really happening is that he's in
Speaker 1: love with her, and he is sexually harassing her on
Speaker 1: the regular, and he's turning him down consistently, and like
Speaker 1: in ways she shouldn't have to. He says he's in
Speaker 1: love with her. It really is just like trying to
Speaker 1: forcefully attack. He's like exerting his power over her the
Speaker 1: way that you know many powerful men do. Right. He
Speaker 1: offers her money, he's like all going her. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of like p o V shots of him, you know,
Speaker 1: like objectifying her, dropping pencils and just being all the
Speaker 1: slimy things. Right, but no one knows this truth quite yet. Egotistical, lying, hypocritical,
Speaker 1: bigot that's Mr Hart. So Judy gets started at the office.
Speaker 1: She's struggling a lot at first. There's this big Xerox
Speaker 1: machine mishap, and Mr Hart yells at her and makes
Speaker 1: her feel like an idiot. To be fair, he probably
Speaker 1: doesn't not to use that ship doesn't know it at all.
Speaker 1: He doesn't know how to do anything. If you haven't
Speaker 1: had a panic attack because of like office equipment, or
Speaker 1: have you even had a job. Yeah, I've been in
Speaker 1: tears over making copies. Um. But she pretty quickly thinking
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I just want to have a
Speaker 1: dark place for a second. But Judy pretty quickly gets
Speaker 1: the hang of things and Dori Ley is reaching out
Speaker 1: to her and trying to be friendly. Um. But because
Speaker 1: Judy believes this rumor about Doriley sleeping with Mr Hart,
Speaker 1: Judy brushes her off and just generally no one is
Speaker 1: taking Doriley seriously. Meanwhile, Mr Hart steals one of Violet's
Speaker 1: ideas about color coding the accounts to improve efficiency, and
Speaker 1: he takes credit for it, but Violet doesn't do anything
Speaker 1: about it because she's up for this promotion and doesn't
Speaker 1: want to ruffle any feathers. But it turns out that
Speaker 1: she does not get the promotion. Mr Hart gave it
Speaker 1: to a man who Violet has five years seniority over
Speaker 1: and trained him. So this is like, this reminds me
Speaker 1: of so so many stories that my aunt would tell
Speaker 1: me about, like working for the government. Like it's just
Speaker 1: that whole character just like exude my aunt, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think she subscribed to the Matron, but she
Speaker 1: retired this year like early because she was just like
Speaker 1: fucking done being passed over by loser's name Marty, who
Speaker 1: were like being promoted. It's just like, yeah, horrible man.
Speaker 1: And then Heart tells Violet that the company needs a
Speaker 1: man in this position and that clients would rather deal
Speaker 1: with a man when it comes to figures, and you know,
Speaker 1: he gave the promotion to a man because he's got
Speaker 1: a family to support, which is still used today to
Speaker 1: justify promotions all the time. So frustrating. And then Violet
Speaker 1: gives this great monologue about demanding respect and she's not
Speaker 1: his girl, right, yeah I love it, which I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not. And then it's also in this scene when
Speaker 1: Dorley comes in and finds out that Mr Hart has
Speaker 1: been saying that he and Doriley have been having an
Speaker 1: affair hence where that rumor came from, which infuriates her.
Speaker 1: And then we get another great monologue from Dorley which
Speaker 1: ends with her She's like, I will shoot your dick
Speaker 1: off if you ever step out of line again. What's
Speaker 1: the line? It's like something about it. She's like, I'll
Speaker 1: turn you from a rooster to a hen something something something,
Speaker 1: it's she Yeah, she threatens to castrate him. It's very
Speaker 1: that Lorena bob it before Lorna bob it with and
Speaker 1: Judy becomes enraged also when one of her colleagues gets
Speaker 1: fired for discussing her salary. So Judy, Violet and Dorley
Speaker 1: I'll take the rest of the day off and they
Speaker 1: go get drunk, and then Judy is like, we got
Speaker 1: to do something about this. So they go to Dorley's
Speaker 1: house and they smoke some weed that Violet has that
Speaker 1: her son gave her, which is honestly one of the
Speaker 1: best mother's son interactions. Yeah, I want to talk about high.
Speaker 1: It was great. And she's like, she's like, not thrilled
Speaker 1: about him smoking Papa. She's just like, your grandma would
Speaker 1: be so upset if she knew you were doing this.
Speaker 1: And then He's like, come on, like you just need
Speaker 1: to do it, and then she's like, leave it in
Speaker 1: my purse. She's not because she's not a regular. She's cool,
Speaker 1: which is kind of cool because it's like there you said,
Speaker 1: she's kind of set up as like the character who
Speaker 1: is like a little more like by the book and
Speaker 1: by and then you're like, oh, but she can fucking hang.
Speaker 1: I like there, like you get all these like little
Speaker 1: shades of like I don't actually like people. And their
Speaker 1: son has hair i've ever seen. Oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: flipping right and left. You're like, who is your stylist?
Speaker 1: Refer me so much volume. So they're getting high and
Speaker 1: they start fantasizing about getting back at Heart extended. It's
Speaker 1: very satisfying. This is where I always forget these things
Speaker 1: happen in the movie, that this this is the point
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, things get really wild, and then
Speaker 1: I just apparently black out because I never remember these
Speaker 1: parts of the movie. But Judy is fantasizing about hunting
Speaker 1: him down with a gun. Dorley fantasizes about like giving
Speaker 1: him a taste of his own like very harassing medicine.
Speaker 1: Violet fantasizes about poisoning him and then chucking him out
Speaker 1: of a window. Yeah, it's and these are all like
Speaker 1: minimum five minutes long a piece. They're very extended seque,
Speaker 1: like there's animation. Oh my gosh, yes that there's that
Speaker 1: Lily Tomlin scene where she's dressed up like snow white,
Speaker 1: you know, like sure, yeah, you're like and there, like
Speaker 1: is that hurt? Like it's I love it. It's great. Um.
Speaker 1: So they all go to work the next day and
Speaker 1: Violet accidentally puts rat poison in Mr. Hart's coffee, thinking
Speaker 1: it's this sweetener. It looks the same, it looks as
Speaker 1: in the same boxes, the same font can't be blamed.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't drink it. But his chair that has
Speaker 1: been acting up throughout the whole movie, does collapse out
Speaker 1: from under him, and then he hits his head and
Speaker 1: is knocked unconscious, and then Violet realizes what she's done,
Speaker 1: and she figures the reason that he collapsed was because
Speaker 1: he drank the poison, so she starts freaking out. They
Speaker 1: all rushed to the hospital and Violet overhears doctors talking
Speaker 1: about a guy who died from being poisoned, but she
Speaker 1: doesn't know they're talking about someone else. So Violet steals
Speaker 1: this man's body, thinking that it's Mr Hart, loads it
Speaker 1: into her trunk, and then takes off with Doriley and Judy.
Speaker 1: But then Doriley discovers that the body is not Mr. Heart,
Speaker 1: so now they have to figure out what to do
Speaker 1: with this random body. They get pulled over by the
Speaker 1: cops and then they get out of that situation. They
Speaker 1: take it back to the hospital and then just leave
Speaker 1: the body there and it's so funny. Wants to give
Speaker 1: us an escort and then she's like, it's great. Um.
Speaker 1: So they return to work the next day and pretend
Speaker 1: like everything is normal, except everything is normal because Mr
Speaker 1: Hart is there and he's fine. And then the women
Speaker 1: convene in the bathroom and talk about how he must
Speaker 1: not have drank the poison and they should just forget
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. But Ros who was like the
Speaker 1: Eyes and Ears and the spy and the banks of
Speaker 1: the office, she was hiding in one of the stalls
Speaker 1: in the bathroom and overhears everything, so she tells Mr
Speaker 1: Hart all the stuff that she heard. So then Mr
Speaker 1: Hart blackmails do rely. He says if she comes to
Speaker 1: his house that evening, he'll forget the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: if she doesn't come over, he'll call the police and
Speaker 1: tell them that the three women tried to murder him.
Speaker 1: So do rely is like fuck you. She hug ties
Speaker 1: him just like in her fantasy, and then like a
Speaker 1: boss first of all, yeah, and then Judy points a
Speaker 1: gun at him, just like in her fantasy. And then
Speaker 1: they kidnap him and take him to his house, and
Speaker 1: then they're like, Okay, what do we do now? They
Speaker 1: try to figure out if they can dig up any
Speaker 1: dirt on him to blackmail him, and they figure out
Speaker 1: that the Ajax account that he's been working on is
Speaker 1: completely fraudulent, but they can't prove it until they get
Speaker 1: the invoices from the company, which will take four to
Speaker 1: six weeks, so they have to keep him tied up
Speaker 1: in his home. Luckily, his wife is a way and
Speaker 1: also his wife who is like the stuetest woman. Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought she was super nice. She's sweet and gullible, yes,
Speaker 1: also known as stupid. Well, I see, I kind of
Speaker 1: disagree on that. I I thought that that was like
Speaker 1: a little subversion where I think usually when you see
Speaker 1: a boss's his wife, there's either no personality or she's
Speaker 1: like jealous, Like when she walked in to see like
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton's character, I thought she was going to be like, hello,
Speaker 1: do you know because I feel like that's the easy choice.
Speaker 1: Not saying that that's the most brilliant, inspired choice, but
Speaker 1: I was. I was actually scammed her way into like
Speaker 1: a month long cruise. So she's actually a genius. And
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, you want me to go stay
Speaker 1: at a nice hotel for another week? Great? Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: so I take I take back the stupid. She's just
Speaker 1: a's just scam goddess. She's she's lay. Yeah, she's just lazy.
Speaker 1: She's lazy. Mosley also listen to that podcast. It's really good.
Speaker 1: Do it. So while he's tied up and away from
Speaker 1: the office for these several weeks, Judy Dorley and Violet
Speaker 1: makes some positive changes around the office, including radical radical
Speaker 1: stuff and equal pay policy. They install a daycare center,
Speaker 1: and there's also like an alcoholic rehabilitation program. Shout out
Speaker 1: drunk feminist icon Margaret. I love Margaret. She was like
Speaker 1: at a girl yeah. Um. But then Heart finally manages
Speaker 1: to get loose and he covers his tracks with the
Speaker 1: A Jack's account and he takes the three women into
Speaker 1: the office, ready to call the police and wrap them out,
Speaker 1: but just then the chairman of the board, Mr. Tinsworthy
Speaker 1: Sanders shows up and praises Mr Hart for all of
Speaker 1: these positive changes that have been implemented and honest original spices.
Speaker 1: It's like, I just love this orange and yellow furniture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is great. You're just like, yeah, sure. And then
Speaker 1: Mr Tinsworth he wants Heart to work with him in Brazil.
Speaker 1: So Heart leaves. They've gotten rid of him, and they
Speaker 1: celebrate and they're like whoa, And that's the end of
Speaker 1: the movie. Let's take a quick break and then we'll
Speaker 1: come right back and we're back. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: to talk about with this. Oh boy, this is a
Speaker 1: fun this is a fun chat. Yes. I feel like
Speaker 1: maybe for this movie it might even be best to
Speaker 1: start with like a little bit of the history behind
Speaker 1: how this movie, how this movie is, this, why this
Speaker 1: movie exists. It's like, I think for this time you
Speaker 1: kind of trace a lot of successful female driven comedies
Speaker 1: back to this movie as kind of like the golden
Speaker 1: standard that women want to see themselves reflected on screen.
Speaker 1: And we will get into the whiteness of the women
Speaker 1: that we see reflected on screen. But just to kind
Speaker 1: of start, I mean, I don't think that you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have a working girl without this movie. You wouldn't have
Speaker 1: the first Wives Club. About this movie, It's just like
Speaker 1: a lot of this definitely got a trend started because
Speaker 1: it was so successful. It made This movie made its
Speaker 1: budget back ten times. It had a ten million dollar budget,
Speaker 1: made over a hundred million dollars at the box office.
Speaker 1: What twenty highest grossing comedy film of all time. It
Speaker 1: was the second highest grossing film of that year, right
Speaker 1: behind the Star Wars movie of that year. I ever
Speaker 1: heard of the Star Wars Like it's fun, Like, it's
Speaker 1: huge that this movie did. This movie that started three
Speaker 1: women with out like an actual romance storyline too, which
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's and it's I mean, it's a feminist text.
Speaker 1: It's white feminism, but it's like feminism. It's it's you know,
Speaker 1: a narrow scope of feminism, white second wave. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have friends at work, but it's like but it's
Speaker 1: definitely like a touchstone in like making room for more
Speaker 1: inclusive texts. Right, I mean, what other movies around this
Speaker 1: time or even since then, Because there haven't been that many,
Speaker 1: but are about like a group of women who are
Speaker 1: fed up with their sexist boss and then like take
Speaker 1: him down and then also implement positive changes in their workplace.
Speaker 1: They like low key almost unionized, but I feel I
Speaker 1: I would imagine that they got like studio notes of like, well,
Speaker 1: don't be too explicit about the unionization stuff, but that's
Speaker 1: pretty much what they do, right, Yeah, they just aren't
Speaker 1: allowed to say. But yeah, I mean is like there
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cool stuff and and I think
Speaker 1: that it wasn't so this was like Dolly Parton's first
Speaker 1: starring vehicle, so you were. My favorite fact about this
Speaker 1: this movie is that Dolly Parton negotiated in her first
Speaker 1: movie contract that she would not do the movie unless
Speaker 1: she did the theme song, which is so fucking cool.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. She's like, listen, listen, Jane, I'll do your
Speaker 1: little movie and this song fucking slap it's my towne
Speaker 1: number one, Like it's good still and like that. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll take us through the lyrics in a bit, because
Speaker 1: their radical lyrics. Also, Jane Fonda's production company was the
Speaker 1: company that produced this movie. Jane Fonda was very much
Speaker 1: a driving force behind getting this movie made, which, as
Speaker 1: we know today still that like someone using their clout
Speaker 1: to get a movie like this made is kind of
Speaker 1: like one of the only ways to do it is
Speaker 1: to have a powerful person strongly advocating for it. And
Speaker 1: as it sounds like Jane Fonda did during the writing
Speaker 1: process of this movie, like really let the writers go
Speaker 1: the way that they wanted to go and make a
Speaker 1: cool like and just gave them room. And the fact
Speaker 1: that it fucking worked is so like it's it's exciting
Speaker 1: that this you know movie got a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: for the mistakes it makes, it made a lot of
Speaker 1: progress in space and it makes me happy. It's a
Speaker 1: pleasant watch. It's very pleasant. It's very fun. It's directed
Speaker 1: by a queer director, queer icon, Colin Higgins, who is
Speaker 1: perhaps most famous for writing Harold and maud Um, but
Speaker 1: he also wrote He continued to work with Dolly Pardon
Speaker 1: after this. He also wrote The Best Little hor House
Speaker 1: in Texas. Yeah, and he directed it as well, And
Speaker 1: so he co wrote and directed five. He is. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's like a lot out of people, I guess like
Speaker 1: Judd Apatow frequently cites him of an influence which we
Speaker 1: can't hold against him. And then he passed away at
Speaker 1: forty seven due to AIDS complications. Um So he had
Speaker 1: like a brief bit like incredible life, like made these
Speaker 1: three extremely iconic. And then his co writer, her name
Speaker 1: is Patricia Resnick. She's still working writer today. Um she
Speaker 1: started out working with Robert Altman and and continue to
Speaker 1: write her own features after working on Three Women, which
Speaker 1: I've never seen. But imagine three women in a movie.
Speaker 1: I don't understand. Um So, because you know she worked
Speaker 1: on three women, She's like, now I have an idea
Speaker 1: for three women. And but but she wrote it as
Speaker 1: a drama, and then Jane Fonda read it and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I liked this story, but I think it should be
Speaker 1: a comedy. And then Colin Higgins came in did a rewrite,
Speaker 1: and then they bullied Lily Tomlin into joining and did
Speaker 1: and thank goodness they did. Yeah. It's it's like, there's
Speaker 1: a cool It seems like the collaborative process of of
Speaker 1: this movie was cool and it was mostly driven by
Speaker 1: women and queer people. Awesome. I'm just great helpful context
Speaker 1: as always, Jamie, thank you so much. Let's get into
Speaker 1: the story. The characters um, so we've got three iconic
Speaker 1: characters here and they're all up against this like shitty,
Speaker 1: horrible sexist boss Mr Hart. Something I liked about the Mr.
Speaker 1: Hart character. I mean, there's nothing to like about it,
Speaker 1: but the but the way he was written was I
Speaker 1: feel like we have talked about this on the Matron
Speaker 1: specifically a lot, but just when there are villains who
Speaker 1: are abusive to women that are so overdone that like
Speaker 1: male audience members couldn't see themselves in them at all,
Speaker 1: which kind of just removes like, well, what's the point
Speaker 1: of doing it? Um, But I don't think that they did.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is like, I mean, some of
Speaker 1: it's kind of like played over the top because it's
Speaker 1: a comedy, but I feel like the things that he
Speaker 1: does are so recognizable, and I'm sure that like if
Speaker 1: a man in like audience, they you know, he could
Speaker 1: see his own behavior in that. But I mean I
Speaker 1: did like that there seemed to be some care into
Speaker 1: like making him a character that hopefully, you know, a
Speaker 1: man could be like oh you know, oh fuck. It's
Speaker 1: like also like a really good actor too, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: really like that actor such a good job with this.
Speaker 1: Um but yeah, like some of the things that Mr
Speaker 1: Hart does, like right off the bat that clue us
Speaker 1: into him being a sexist pig, But are Jamie's You're
Speaker 1: saying familiar enough that like these things have all been
Speaker 1: said to us and all women. He tells Judy right
Speaker 1: when he first meets her that she's pretty in and
Speaker 1: he comments on other women's looks in the office, saying
Speaker 1: how he doesn't find many of them to be attractive.
Speaker 1: And then he goes right Violet and she just gives
Speaker 1: him the stinky um. But you feel like it's like
Speaker 1: subtly implied, Like it's not or not even subtly, but
Speaker 1: it's implied that he's part of the reason he's not
Speaker 1: promoting her is because he has no sexual interest in
Speaker 1: her and like that, But it is also like really
Speaker 1: okay with taking credit for all of her ideas of
Speaker 1: her ideas. Yeah, that's one of the first things we
Speaker 1: see him do too, with the color coding. Yeah, he's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I'll have to like read more about this.
Speaker 1: And then in the next scene he has taken it
Speaker 1: to his boss, his boss, and and his boss is like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this is great, like good job, and another
Speaker 1: very realistic thing happens where Violet sees this happening right
Speaker 1: in front of her. She's like, he just stole the
Speaker 1: idea and took credit for it, but because she is
Speaker 1: up for a promotion, she can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1: And this is such a familiar situation for women because
Speaker 1: like if we try to speak out or stand up
Speaker 1: for ourselves, we're seen as being difficult and then you know,
Speaker 1: we get fired. Yeah, you can't really the it's really
Speaker 1: hard to advocate for yourself. Yes, it's I mean it
Speaker 1: was really really really well done where yeah, you can
Speaker 1: just like sort of and it's like so well acted
Speaker 1: by Lily Tom went to where you just see her
Speaker 1: like choosing her battles and in her face. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: doesn't have to sit. It's yeah, and that's like a
Speaker 1: thing that yeah, like happens, has happened to all of
Speaker 1: us at some point, happens all the time, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the movie kind of plays it
Speaker 1: smart and and shows so many subtle things that build
Speaker 1: up that is like every woman who's ever worked in
Speaker 1: an office or it really just existed in the world.
Speaker 1: He also like he's like, oh, I want to buy
Speaker 1: my wife something Violet go shopping and she's like, that's
Speaker 1: not in my job description on not going to shop
Speaker 1: for you, and then he like interrupts her and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you need to be a team player, blah blah blah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely got asked to go pick up a old
Speaker 1: boss is like tailored pants from Nordstrom in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day once and it's it's like, where is
Speaker 1: that in my Like no, low key? Two weeks ago?
Speaker 1: Male director sent me out to get him coffee. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm your head writer, Like what do you talk like
Speaker 1: Like it's just like it's fucking infuriating. It's like, where
Speaker 1: in my job description did you see lackey? Like it's
Speaker 1: so weird? Yeah, no, it's uh And it's literally two
Speaker 1: weeks great, great, So yeah, we progress just a fortnight
Speaker 1: ago right here in Los Angeles, Californy. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: Also so violent. Towards the beginning of the movie, she
Speaker 1: talks about how rapidly heart Like rose up the ranks,
Speaker 1: climbed the corporate ladder, and she's like, I remember when
Speaker 1: he was a management trainee. In fact, I'm the one
Speaker 1: who trained him. Meanwhile, she's been there for twelve years.
Speaker 1: She does have seem to have some like she's the
Speaker 1: senior supervisor person, but it seems like she's so qualified
Speaker 1: and so capable and could exactly but because she's a woman.
Speaker 1: And this gets pretty explicitly stated by Heart in that
Speaker 1: conversation when he tells her that she didn't get the promotion,
Speaker 1: and there's the whole thing about like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: he's a man and he's got a family to support,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I have four kids. But you know,
Speaker 1: there's you know, the societal expectation of like men needing
Speaker 1: to be the provider so they're more worthy of more money,
Speaker 1: and it's so frustrating and doing the same job as
Speaker 1: somehow harder for them than it is for a woman.
Speaker 1: That was I like literally couldn't stop thinking about my aunt.
Speaker 1: So I was like getting so mad because you just
Speaker 1: see those little things that like your trainee being promoted
Speaker 1: above above you, and like you're not allowed to say
Speaker 1: anything about it, or just these fucking losers just hurtling
Speaker 1: over you they can and no, like even when men
Speaker 1: recognize in the office that it's wrong, they don't, they don't,
Speaker 1: they don't let it happen. But the one get put
Speaker 1: on projects, don't don't even they want to get their name,
Speaker 1: they want to hurtle over you do. Like it's just
Speaker 1: even though once that like you think are on your
Speaker 1: side and then you're like, oh wait, you're slowly doing
Speaker 1: the things that you're like every other man does or yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like all those workplace situations where you're like,
Speaker 1: well that man, it wasn't explicitly horrible to me, so
Speaker 1: I guess he's good. But it's like, but he would
Speaker 1: sit through me getting harassed or like being treated like
Speaker 1: ship and I guess because he didn't do it himself.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad, Like it's just oh, listeners, you couldn't
Speaker 1: see it, but all three of us just I rolled
Speaker 1: in unison um. Something I really liked with Lily Tomlin's
Speaker 1: character is you see we'll talk about her relationship with
Speaker 1: her son as well, but like you see her it's
Speaker 1: like that second shift mentality, which I feel like comes
Speaker 1: up in a lot of like second way of feminism
Speaker 1: stuff because it was so focused on women in the workplace.
Speaker 1: But you see there's like a great shot of her
Speaker 1: talking on the phone checking in on things at home
Speaker 1: while also doing five things at work at once, and
Speaker 1: it's just like she's doing it all deftly and capably,
Speaker 1: and you're like, she shouldn't have to do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: none of the men in this office are calling to
Speaker 1: make sure that their kids are getting places on time
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. They can't do anything. They're like,
Speaker 1: go get me a cup of coffee, Go get me
Speaker 1: like gifts for my well, they like they delegate tasks
Speaker 1: that no one should be doing at work to like
Speaker 1: these capable women who should be spending time doing something else.
Speaker 1: But he's like, go shopping for me, because women be shopping, right.
Speaker 1: It's it's very shopping. And the Violet, I don't know violets,
Speaker 1: like they're all three of them are amazing characters. I
Speaker 1: was also like pleasantly surprised by I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: the three main characters are all very they have very
Speaker 1: distinct personalities, have very different approaches to the same I mean,
Speaker 1: which you can tell in the minutes long Fantasy Secrets.
Speaker 1: They have different approaches to how they would kill this man.
Speaker 1: But I like, um, I liked that amazing scene where
Speaker 1: you get a Lily Tomlin monologue and then a Dolly
Speaker 1: Parton MODELO. Back to back where uh, Lily Tomlin is, um,
Speaker 1: hold on, I think I've got don't call me your girl, right,
Speaker 1: I'm your girl, I'm a woman. Do you hear me?
Speaker 1: I'm not your wife, thank god, or your mother or
Speaker 1: and but then she turns to do rely and or
Speaker 1: your mistress right, So we all know that that is inaccurate,
Speaker 1: petty wrong. But you see this moment where like Viole
Speaker 1: clearly FUCKX up and gets it wrong, and then Dorley
Speaker 1: comes to her own defense, and it's like, wait, is
Speaker 1: that what people think is going on? And immediately Violet
Speaker 1: believes her. It's not a question of like women are
Speaker 1: not believing women in this movie. So I kind of
Speaker 1: liked that there was an example of female character fucking
Speaker 1: up and then course correcting immediately and like siding with
Speaker 1: her female coworker and then they all banned together, and yeah,
Speaker 1: that was I mean. And then it's so fucking great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's scene is incredible. So like, first of all,
Speaker 1: I'm going home, Second of all, we're going to go
Speaker 1: get a drink. Third of all, then we're gonna get
Speaker 1: high in Plinn how to kill our boss. And then
Speaker 1: Lily Tallan also uses that phrase pink collar ghetto at
Speaker 1: the bar, which I thought was like again, just like
Speaker 1: one of those things where I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that phrase still comes up all the time. So like
Speaker 1: the pink collar, I don't know if she was using
Speaker 1: it in the exact same context, but like pink collar
Speaker 1: jobs has been like a lot of I don't know,
Speaker 1: I went through a phase where I was reading a
Speaker 1: lot about it. Basically jobs that are given majority to
Speaker 1: women and the benefits and pay are not fair. And
Speaker 1: so like the most recent example where like pink collar
Speaker 1: will pop up a lot is social media jobs, where
Speaker 1: the majority of people in those positions are women. They're
Speaker 1: not paid enough, they're not given enough benefits. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just a contract job even when it shouldn't be. And
Speaker 1: that's like another example of just like I mean, for
Speaker 1: a long time, like teaching was a pink collar job
Speaker 1: where like no one was getting paid enough. And even
Speaker 1: now it's like my mom has to buy her own
Speaker 1: school supplies for her own classroom, which is ridiculous whenever
Speaker 1: you see a teacher doing a fundraiser, fucking give all
Speaker 1: of your money to it. Um. But yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: that that was cool, that like that phrase that is
Speaker 1: like still a buzzy phrase right now is like comes
Speaker 1: up too. I don't know. This movie is great. This
Speaker 1: movie definitely has such relevance in today's time with everything
Speaker 1: going on, and I wish it didn't. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like this movie came and it's like almost that. Really,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, we haven't really solved literally one of
Speaker 1: these problems. Everything stays the same. Yeah, yeah, it's man, Wow,
Speaker 1: there you go again. You owe us three more dollars?
Speaker 1: What's worth it? Put it in the swear every but yeah, Jamie,
Speaker 1: you were starting to talk about that, like the monologue
Speaker 1: that Doraley gives where she is like yelling at heart
Speaker 1: and like saying, I've like you've sexually harassed me for
Speaker 1: the last time. I'm going to shoot your dick off
Speaker 1: if you do it again. Like I wish I had
Speaker 1: the actual text in front phenomenal writing. Are you guys ready?
Speaker 1: I'm ready? Please, Okay, get your scummy hands off me. Look,
Speaker 1: I've been straight with you since the first day I
Speaker 1: got here, and I've put up Actually, I feel like
Speaker 1: I should raise my voice an octave and do an accent, right,
Speaker 1: it would be so it would be mean to Dolly parton.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ta where nobody can emulate Dolly No,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna try it. But and I've put
Speaker 1: up with all your groping and oggling and hollow apologies
Speaker 1: and chasing me around the desk because I need this job.
Speaker 1: But this is the last straw. Look. I've got a
Speaker 1: gun out there in my friends, and up to now
Speaker 1: I've been forgiving and forgetting because of the way I
Speaker 1: was brought up. But I'll tell you one thing. If
Speaker 1: you ever say another word about me or make another
Speaker 1: indecent proposal, I'm going to get that gun of mine
Speaker 1: and I'm going to change you from a bishop to
Speaker 1: a rabbi with one shot. And then you're just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's great. And then we stand in
Speaker 1: each here and we feel that's the other thing. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. I um, I didn't appreciate about
Speaker 1: this movie. I think I'm like the first Watch. But
Speaker 1: there are subtle ways, or maybe even not so subtle,
Speaker 1: but ways that each character is set up that they
Speaker 1: need the job that they have. Where Judy has just
Speaker 1: gotten divorced and she was a homemaker, so she needs
Speaker 1: to enter the workforce now to support herself, and another
Speaker 1: like detailed was layered into that where he left her
Speaker 1: for his secretary, which is part of why like Judy
Speaker 1: is so dismissive of um Doriley whenever she's trying to
Speaker 1: reach out and be friendly because she still thinks about
Speaker 1: this affair that's happening and I want to touch more
Speaker 1: in that just a moment triggered perhaps UM. So she
Speaker 1: needs to support herself, so she's entering the workforce. Lily
Speaker 1: Thomas character is a single mother of four, so she
Speaker 1: needs to support her family and herself. Um. And then
Speaker 1: Doriley says, you know, I need this job. So they're
Speaker 1: all putting up with this horrible is just a home
Speaker 1: playing good time. He's like as a musician, it seems
Speaker 1: so you know he's an artist, you know, probably not
Speaker 1: making much money. Their their relationship and you get like
Speaker 1: one scene where you see them together there and unfortunately
Speaker 1: the dialogue does not age very well because he's like,
Speaker 1: smile for me more. But the message of what he says,
Speaker 1: I like, what I was impressed by from that scene,
Speaker 1: which was not smile for me, but is that he
Speaker 1: listened to her and he believed that she was being
Speaker 1: harassed and he wasn't like, you're making this up, which
Speaker 1: I think again is like another easy thing that unfortunately
Speaker 1: happens all the time. So it's nice to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so he is saying smile for me, But it seems
Speaker 1: like she was like happy in her marriage and like
Speaker 1: had a support system that you're just like, well, that's lovely.
Speaker 1: I like to think that when she becomes a country
Speaker 1: western star, he's like her her backup time. He's in
Speaker 1: her band and her band A star is born in
Speaker 1: but not because a man helps her be starts because
Speaker 1: she became a star on her own and lives laughing.
Speaker 1: Because we saw this in Be Together and you Jamie
Speaker 1: and Anna we're both crying and caitl and The're boasting
Speaker 1: there like oh my fuck is this Hey you cursed?
Speaker 1: I know I did. I'll put three dollars in the
Speaker 1: sword Jock. I'll cry again. Yeah. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that happens quick that was Bradley Cooper's actual dog. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that's like the bassest vocal fry. It's just all
Speaker 1: vocal fry. People complain about women's vocal fry. Have you
Speaker 1: seen Bradley Cooper in A Star is born, they're like
Speaker 1: Oscar nominated. Al right, sure, anyhoo. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that happens in this movie that sucks to see
Speaker 1: play out, but then it gets course corrected, like you said, Jamie,
Speaker 1: but the women in the office don't doray because they
Speaker 1: think she's having an affair with the boss. But what's
Speaker 1: really happening is that she's being sexually harassed by her
Speaker 1: boss and uh, he's spreading rumors that they're sleeping together.
Speaker 1: So as soon as there's light shed on that, that's
Speaker 1: when Judy and Violet are like, oh, that's all be friends.
Speaker 1: You know, Sorry, we made assumptions about you, so we
Speaker 1: could be like, oh, man, it's like women hating women
Speaker 1: for like these petty reasons. But it's also like right,
Speaker 1: like it's men pitting women against each other and then
Speaker 1: figuring it out right. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that that
Speaker 1: was like a cool example of like commenting on that too,
Speaker 1: because especially in nineteen eighty where it might not I
Speaker 1: mean even now, like it doesn't always occur. I don't know,
Speaker 1: like now now I feel like it's almost like an instinct.
Speaker 1: But in every case, like when I was definitely younger
Speaker 1: and working in offices, and like male superiors quote unquote
Speaker 1: will try to pit women in the office against each other.
Speaker 1: I didn't always realize that that was what was happening.
Speaker 1: And so having like a movie point that out directly
Speaker 1: and then have them figure it out, get mad and retaliate,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is like almost a blueprint for
Speaker 1: like what And like you said earlier, it was really
Speaker 1: cool that like Lily Thomas character instantly believed Dolly Parton's character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this man is lying on
Speaker 1: your name, Well fuck him all you three dollars. And
Speaker 1: also let's last at him. And it also makes total
Speaker 1: like sense unfortunately that Dory hadn't tried to discuss it
Speaker 1: with any of the women in the office before because
Speaker 1: she's like, well, you know, it'll just make my reputation worse.
Speaker 1: It'll look like I'm coming, you know. And she kind
Speaker 1: of has that conversation with her husband Dwane of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know really what's going on, but everyone hates
Speaker 1: me and I can't talk to anyone about it, Like
Speaker 1: she there's no place I mean, you know, you can't
Speaker 1: imagine that HR at this company or most companies would
Speaker 1: be very helpful to her, and so it just yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt like in a in a very like heightened movie.
Speaker 1: Felt it was like a very realistic situation. And then
Speaker 1: so much of that I like what I feel like
Speaker 1: we talked about a lot of the same themes in
Speaker 1: The First Wives Club where, which is clearly you know,
Speaker 1: like taking a page from nine to five of like,
Speaker 1: so much of this movie that's so much fun is
Speaker 1: just the catharsis of like, you know, women in the
Speaker 1: workplace still have it so rough. And again it's like
Speaker 1: we are seeing upper middle class white women, um, and
Speaker 1: they have it rough and soon so all the untold
Speaker 1: stories of people from lower income backgrounds, of different racist sexualities, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But but then you get to see them take this
Speaker 1: like spectacular revenge that no one in real life really
Speaker 1: can and it feels amazing. It is empowering. Someone's dick off.
Speaker 1: I want to turn a return into a hen. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: I just tried to do an accent. I really apologize
Speaker 1: for that. Everyone was tragically bad, but yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: just to piggyback off that conversation a little bit. This
Speaker 1: is a very like white feminism movie. The characters that
Speaker 1: are featuring this, like the the empowered women are all
Speaker 1: middle class white women conventionally attractive. Uh, you know that
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, there are a few people of color
Speaker 1: in the office, but they almost never get to talk.
Speaker 1: Uh they talk about the white woman's predicament. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not really allowed to contribute anything to the story. Um.
Speaker 1: We do see a black guy very early on who
Speaker 1: works in the mail room, and he comments on how
Speaker 1: he's never able to get promoted out of the mail
Speaker 1: room because they keep bringing in outside people that may
Speaker 1: have been deliberate commentary on like you know, white people
Speaker 1: tend to get favor for promotions or jobs over people color. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's so it's like just that one thing and
Speaker 1: it doesn't get any further floor than that's the only
Speaker 1: time you even see him, right, sucks. It's and that
Speaker 1: that actor, his name is Ray Vit and two years
Speaker 1: after this movie came out, he was murdered by the
Speaker 1: l A. P. D. Oh my god. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: we have there's a black woman in the office named Betty.
Speaker 1: She gets a scene with Lily Tomlin, but they're only
Speaker 1: talking about Lily Tomlin and Betty is kind of just
Speaker 1: reassuring her. And this is the scene where Violet is
Speaker 1: accidentally putting rap poise in the coffee. Right. Um, so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like they're all very much there as supporting characters
Speaker 1: and kind of background. There's another character I think her
Speaker 1: name is Maria Delgado who gets fought. She's the one
Speaker 1: who gets fired for disgusting her salary, but I believe
Speaker 1: she gets re hired then whenever Heart leaves and then
Speaker 1: they're like come back and like work part time if
Speaker 1: you want too. Yeah. Other than that, there is really
Speaker 1: no mind paid to people of color in this film,
Speaker 1: and it's all about, you know, the attractive white women
Speaker 1: in their struggles. Yeah. So, while this is like a
Speaker 1: feminist text, it is not intersectional, but it does, you know,
Speaker 1: pave the way for more intersectional feminist texts to be
Speaker 1: made later on, and we are still waiting for are
Speaker 1: they someone please fund them? And with that, let's take
Speaker 1: a quick break and we will be right back and
Speaker 1: we're back. Sophie touched on this earlier, but I do
Speaker 1: think it bears repeating how remarkable it is that there
Speaker 1: is not any romantic subplots in this movie that at
Speaker 1: least that take up any minus thing at the end. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so so let's talk about Well, I think I want
Speaker 1: to backtrack a little bit and talk about Duty's relationship
Speaker 1: with her ex husband Dick, because he track suit track
Speaker 1: suit Dick brown track track suit. I know it was
Speaker 1: like what a choice the worst color is? Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he keeps showing up places, stalking her. He's stalking her.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I've been chasing the joint because they're
Speaker 1: all staying at Heart's house like to like monitor him.
Speaker 1: He's so creepy. And then dude, Dick is like, why
Speaker 1: I think I might want to get back together, like
Speaker 1: let's hang out, And she's like, no, you can't be here,
Speaker 1: like I'm house sitting, like please leave, and he's like,
Speaker 1: but I've been chasing the joint. You're here alone, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Crazy how casually he delivers us like he's say, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I've been spying on you. Shut up. You're like, sir,
Speaker 1: You're like, excuse me, sir, that's a crime. That yeah,
Speaker 1: And like that doesn't get challenged at all. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if if like Judy was like, well
Speaker 1: we used to be married, so you know, he hurt.
Speaker 1: I think it just shows like and like for a
Speaker 1: second that you think she's going to like she was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's have lunch, and you think that that that I
Speaker 1: was really worried that they would like get back together something.
Speaker 1: I think they're just trying to show how inexperienced she
Speaker 1: is and like naive just yeah, Like, but what I
Speaker 1: like about it is that like very quickly after she
Speaker 1: shows that she finds her strength again. Yes, and then
Speaker 1: at the end she yeah, she you know, cusses him out,
Speaker 1: screams him out, She's like, I'd never get back with
Speaker 1: you in a million years. And it's like and she's
Speaker 1: you know, it's very over the top, but it's a
Speaker 1: good like, it's a good moment for that character, and
Speaker 1: especially where that's I feel like that doesn't First Wives
Speaker 1: Club kind of funk that up too, Yeah, because the
Speaker 1: Midler character gets back with her her husband, right, So
Speaker 1: so this what I mean, like if that had to
Speaker 1: be there, which is I didn't have to uh, and
Speaker 1: then there were other ways to characterize her, right, But
Speaker 1: at least it's like well played with the way it concludes, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's basically introduced as an obstacle for her to like
Speaker 1: be like go away. You're like ruining this. You know,
Speaker 1: we've kidnapped our boss and you're messing this up, messing
Speaker 1: up our operation track suit, right, And then the way
Speaker 1: the story concludes, the whole movie concludes, is they've gotten
Speaker 1: rid of Heart. The three of them are like, who
Speaker 1: we run this company now? Uh? And then there are
Speaker 1: like title cards of what happened to everyone. First we
Speaker 1: see Violet, she gets promoted to like vice president. She
Speaker 1: essentially gets Heart's job. Now yeah, because she's like so
Speaker 1: good at keeping her cool under pressure. All you have
Speaker 1: to do is poison someone and you finally get that
Speaker 1: promotion I've been waiting for. Yeah, just a hot tip,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah. Then we see um, Judy's title card
Speaker 1: and it says that she falls in love with and
Speaker 1: gets married to the Xerox representative, which is like a
Speaker 1: callback to like the whole Xerox mishap thing, which it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: but now she loves Xerox so much that she's fucking
Speaker 1: the Xerox man. Not my favorite job, don't like it
Speaker 1: didn't need to be there. Um. And then we get
Speaker 1: you know, Dolly becomes she quits the company and becomes
Speaker 1: a country and Western singer, and we're like and then
Speaker 1: the other there's another problematic one where Heart's title card
Speaker 1: is he was abducted by a tribe of Amazonians in Brazil,
Speaker 1: which you know perpetuates the negative stereotype that indigenous people
Speaker 1: are savage images. Yeah, so that's not good, but at all.
Speaker 1: I do like though that there's no romantic subplot um
Speaker 1: because there's kind of no room for it and no
Speaker 1: need for it in this story. Right it's a it's
Speaker 1: a fucking revenge fantasy. And I feel like, again, that's like,
Speaker 1: would that have been possible if there weren't mostly women
Speaker 1: and queer people in the room? I would guess not probably,
Speaker 1: I would gets in that there is one passage I
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up. So right after they have kidnapped
Speaker 1: him and they're realizing that they can't just like keep him,
Speaker 1: then when they decide they wanted what they want to do,
Speaker 1: because Violet, what could we used to keep Heart quiet?
Speaker 1: Judy blackmail? Violet blackmail? Oh that's great, but what could
Speaker 1: we get him on? Judy a sex candle, take a
Speaker 1: picture of him with a prostitute? Totally? No, who would care? Violet,
Speaker 1: She's right. Heart would simply buy up all the copies
Speaker 1: and distribute them as Christmas cards. Yes, so this is
Speaker 1: shaming of sex work start work not cool? Uh taste
Speaker 1: lady joke. Yes, like let's hire a prostitute and exploit
Speaker 1: her in order to get it's like, yeah, not's not
Speaker 1: that's you know, very nineteen eighties of its very like
Speaker 1: white feminism, privileged bullshit. We don't love it. We don't
Speaker 1: love it. I wanted to share some quick quotes about
Speaker 1: just again just like going back into the writing process
Speaker 1: for this, because it's very interesting to me. Where Jane Fonda.
Speaker 1: I mean, she has like a pretty storied history of
Speaker 1: fighting for workers rights. She's from a very privileged background.
Speaker 1: Um and so a lot of times when she would
Speaker 1: try to make these stories about not extremely rich people,
Speaker 1: she would have to do research on them, which I mean,
Speaker 1: what a what a trial. But but she's talked a
Speaker 1: lot about the process of like figuring out how to
Speaker 1: play these characters, and she like spoke to a lot
Speaker 1: of women who worked as secretaries. Uh. And she had
Speaker 1: the following to say, um, and she said she also
Speaker 1: specifically focused on women who had begun working later in
Speaker 1: life due to either being divorced or being widowed, which
Speaker 1: I think was a lot more common in the eighties
Speaker 1: than it is now. But she said, quote, what I
Speaker 1: found was that secretaries know the work they do is important,
Speaker 1: is skilled, but they also know they're not treated with respect.
Speaker 1: They called themselves office wives. They have to put gas
Speaker 1: in the boss's car, get his coffee by the present
Speaker 1: for his wife and mistress. So when we came to
Speaker 1: do the film, we said to Colin Higgins, the director, Okay,
Speaker 1: what you have to do is write a screenplay which
Speaker 1: shows you can run an office without a boss, but
Speaker 1: you can't run an office without the secretaries on quote.
Speaker 1: And that's I think this is my favorite part of
Speaker 1: the movie. When they've kidnapped Heart, tied them up in
Speaker 1: like s and m gear in his house using also
Speaker 1: like the garage garage door opener that we see Lily
Speaker 1: Tomlin installed earlier in the middle fixed it on her own. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: while being while having a serious conversation with her son
Speaker 1: about pot, about pot and about how she gets mistreated
Speaker 1: at work. And yeah, She's like, uh, I'm a mother
Speaker 1: of four and I just installed my garage door opener
Speaker 1: and he's still calling me his girl. We're like, so
Speaker 1: they've kidnapped the boss. They've tied him up. He's you know,
Speaker 1: wearing a collar stuff like that. Um, And they realized
Speaker 1: that no one ever actually wants to see the boss
Speaker 1: face to face at work, so like except for ros
Speaker 1: who is a traitor. Um. But they're like having a
Speaker 1: pretty easy time of like him not being there. So
Speaker 1: they use this opportunity to implement all these changes radical
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and I almost wanted to see a little
Speaker 1: bit more of it, Like you get paid maternity leave
Speaker 1: and like you know, keep going and keep insurance for everybody,
Speaker 1: free care, split, split work time, flexible hours. It's like
Speaker 1: that wasn't the stat that they increase productivity by six weeks.
Speaker 1: It's like what, Yeah, it's it's very impressive, so awesome
Speaker 1: to see that. You can tell, like the morale around
Speaker 1: the office is much higher. What kind of stinks about
Speaker 1: this is that they do all this stuff and then
Speaker 1: the chairman of the board comes in thinks that heart
Speaker 1: was responsible for all these changes. No one corrects him,
Speaker 1: because if they did, they'd have to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we did it because we had kidnapped our boss. Um.
Speaker 1: But he still gets like the credit and the promotion
Speaker 1: for these positive changes in this increase of efficiency, the
Speaker 1: women right by Colonel standards and the women don't get
Speaker 1: any recognition. Is it realistic? Yeah, but you know it
Speaker 1: just kind of sucks to that that's like sort of
Speaker 1: how that's how the movie ends, where they don't get
Speaker 1: any recognition. Still, that was a bit of a bummer.
Speaker 1: But it's also like I said, hyper reo, um, Jamie,
Speaker 1: did you want to get into the song at all? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention. I mean just that even
Speaker 1: like the song nine to five has some very subversive
Speaker 1: and cool lyrics that sometimes you miss because you're like,
Speaker 1: it's such a slapper. But she, I mean, she clearly
Speaker 1: is like writing about what actually happens in the movie
Speaker 1: that she references. They just use your mind and they
Speaker 1: never give you credit referencing when Lily Tommin's idea has taken.
Speaker 1: You would think that I would deserve a fat promotion,
Speaker 1: want to move ahead, but the boss wants seem to
Speaker 1: let me. It's just really good. Yeah, that's all I
Speaker 1: wanted to say. Is just like putting out specific lines
Speaker 1: that reference the movie and that are just like there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of working women's empower. This is still
Speaker 1: like the working women's empowerment anthembs, it's my ring down,
Speaker 1: she's she's Sophie. Is it your ringtone? It's my He
Speaker 1: was just really really like, it's my It's really fun
Speaker 1: to hear it go off in front of people, see
Speaker 1: their faces, especially ment um and then, uh, quick note
Speaker 1: on the reception of this movie. It is now regarded
Speaker 1: as a classic. It has been uh and and for
Speaker 1: the most part, it got like generally positive reviews when
Speaker 1: it came out. However, because in nineteen even more so
Speaker 1: than now, the movie criticism community was really only old
Speaker 1: white guys. Um. Even people who reviewed the movie well
Speaker 1: would still diss it for the parts that they just
Speaker 1: didn't understand themselves. Um, so of course you got your
Speaker 1: boy Roderi Ebert. Well, he did give the film three
Speaker 1: out of four stars, which is a lot for him. Uh.
Speaker 1: He doesn't usually like to see women, and so this
Speaker 1: is a thrill for us. But the way he talks
Speaker 1: about it is very condescending. He says, quote it was
Speaker 1: pleasant entertainment, and I liked it despite its uneven qualities
Speaker 1: and a plot that's almost too preposterous. You're like, uh,
Speaker 1: Jeane Cisco had like similar stuff. Variety said, quote although
Speaker 1: it can probably be argued that Patricia Resnick and Colin
Speaker 1: Higgins script borders on the inane, the bottom line is
Speaker 1: it's fun, where like basically you don't get a lot
Speaker 1: of critical praise for the story. You mostly just get like, wow,
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton's a movie star, which is true, which is
Speaker 1: still most of the articles about this movie is like wow,
Speaker 1: this was a star is born. But even now there
Speaker 1: there was like some fucking editorial like flame war, like
Speaker 1: in because um oh I think I saw this, yeah
Speaker 1: where where uh ninety five was like being screened by
Speaker 1: the bf I British Film Institute and is just like
Speaker 1: called in the description like a feminist classic. And then
Speaker 1: someone at The Guardian wrote this long editorial man obviously
Speaker 1: being like is it really a feminist text? And then
Speaker 1: its turd and like that was two years ago. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just like yeah, you did. We've moved on from
Speaker 1: nine to five mentality, but it is a feminist text,
Speaker 1: you don't know. I mean this movie was you know,
Speaker 1: made into a TV series, made into a musical version
Speaker 1: of the film, and you know it's like it's influential,
Speaker 1: and like the Guardian guy who was who is the
Speaker 1: author of that, I don't know, I don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fact that this movie was such a commercial success
Speaker 1: just goes to show like how starved people are for
Speaker 1: representation for like female leed comedy movies or female led
Speaker 1: projects in general. Like another thing I always appreciate is
Speaker 1: a funny movie starring women. I love to see women
Speaker 1: be funny. Lily Tomlin especially is like cracking jokes. She's
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I tore right through your memo and
Speaker 1: it's a double entendreus larious. I know I know where
Speaker 1: to stick it. Love that line. And then she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm a doctor, why am I talking to you? Piss off?
Speaker 1: And it does pass it back to test, but she's
Speaker 1: screaming at a woman to piss off, just you know.
Speaker 1: But it's man, it's it's so funny. She's so funny.
Speaker 1: It's great. And Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin are both
Speaker 1: over forty when they're filming this movie. You don't get
Speaker 1: to see women in their forties really very much at
Speaker 1: all in cinema. And again, similar to UM, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think like a lot of the strengths and weaknesses
Speaker 1: of nine to five are kind of identical to the
Speaker 1: ones in First Wives Club where you're like, well, women
Speaker 1: over forty do want to see themselves reflected and move
Speaker 1: these and uh and it's not just white women too.
Speaker 1: But um, you know again, where's the fucking movie? Um?
Speaker 1: But this movie, you know it moved the dial, It
Speaker 1: kept thinking like it. Yeah, it opened up a conversation
Speaker 1: about sexism. And I just I love how like it's
Speaker 1: about like women coming together who like share a common
Speaker 1: motivation and a common interest in taking down this shitty
Speaker 1: sexist boss that they have and like uniting for this
Speaker 1: like progressive cause and like getting shit done. It just
Speaker 1: makes it. Yeah, there's there's there's an article in stud
Speaker 1: of Living that's like eleven things Dolly Parton taught us
Speaker 1: in nine to five, And I think they're all really
Speaker 1: kind of cool. It's like trust other women, confront your
Speaker 1: problems at on, Always stand up for yourself. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: just need to drink with your friends. Turnabout is fair
Speaker 1: play at least in es. Uh, stand by your friends.
Speaker 1: Always have your friends back. Sometimes you need to call
Speaker 1: your friends on their mistakes. Commit to your plans with
Speaker 1: your friends out of friendship stuff. Be honest with your friends,
Speaker 1: follow your dreams like these are these are all. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you just don't see stuff like that in movies,
Speaker 1: especially in Night and even sadly today, who well, do
Speaker 1: you guys have anything else? I think those those all
Speaker 1: the main points that I had. I think I just
Speaker 1: I really and this is coming from someone who has
Speaker 1: a panic attack every time they smoke weed. But I
Speaker 1: just like Lily Tomlin like talking to her like teenage son,
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, I don't really care if you smoke weed,
Speaker 1: slipping in my purse. Like I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of like mother characters from that era would have been like,
Speaker 1: marijuana is the devil, and She's just like, fuck it,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna smoke one joint. Mall yeah, and she like
Speaker 1: they just have so much fun together. I love that
Speaker 1: scene where they're just like laughing, especially if you like
Speaker 1: Are Gray and Frankie Head, You're like, damn, Lily Tomas
Speaker 1: is weed. Mom, Mom, Mom, It's a good time movie.
Speaker 1: It's a m If you haven't seen it, you gotta
Speaker 1: see it. Does it pass the Bechdel tests lots? They
Speaker 1: do talk about heart a lot, but there are many,
Speaker 1: many conversations between many combinations of characters, and only because
Speaker 1: you have. I don't even know that they're ever actually
Speaker 1: trying to kill him, Like they don't want to be murderers,
Speaker 1: they just want to They just want them to get Honestly,
Speaker 1: there was a there was talks of a sequel to
Speaker 1: this movie, which I would prefer to a reboot, and
Speaker 1: I've really absolutely had it with the reboots. A sequel
Speaker 1: with the original cast would be amazing. That ended up
Speaker 1: getting scrapped, but I'm like, oh, they should do it,
Speaker 1: and then this time they should be trying to kill him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the next level. Yeah, let's go full horror camp
Speaker 1: and just do it. I read this piece that was
Speaker 1: like the reason why they aren't doing the reboot is
Speaker 1: because the content would be too similar because things haven't changed,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like, so depressing. I've
Speaker 1: had like male bosses, like pretty much word from word,
Speaker 1: the same things that Mr Hart says to like Judy
Speaker 1: or Violet or shout out to my old old boss
Speaker 1: for making me cry over paper towels. Fuck you talk
Speaker 1: to my boss from two weeks ago. Should appress them,
Speaker 1: Sweeten law La, I would never give me five dollars,
Speaker 1: so I'll never hear this. Let's write the movie on
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, I've kind of been waiting for this day.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, I would give this a four
Speaker 1: point to five. I've I'm gonna take off three quarters
Speaker 1: of a nipple because it is a movie that largely
Speaker 1: ignores people of color in general, and there's you know,
Speaker 1: just a couple of those like regressive jokes about sex
Speaker 1: work and just tribe of people and the Amazon, you know,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Um, but it just feels so ahead
Speaker 1: of its time, and it holds up for the most
Speaker 1: part pretty well. You know. It's it's a raw, it's
Speaker 1: a fun movie. It's it's i'd love to see women
Speaker 1: triumphing over there, like sexist oppressors. Just a few of
Speaker 1: the era things that it gets a little wrong, could
Speaker 1: be more inclusive, could be more intersectional. But um, for
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four five, it's pretty good. Yeah. So, and
Speaker 1: I'll give one to each of the gals Lily, Jane
Speaker 1: and Dolly. I'll give one nipple to the woman who's
Speaker 1: struggling with alcoholism, who gets from rehabilitation drunk femnicyclon Margaret. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I will give my quarter nipple to scam Goddess
Speaker 1: hearts one. I like Missy, I'm a missy stand I
Speaker 1: hope she divorced him. Uh yeah, I'll go four point
Speaker 1: two five as well. I mean kind of for for
Speaker 1: all the same reasons where it's like for this is
Speaker 1: like radical but also mainstream, which is like such a
Speaker 1: cool space to occupy in like movie history, it is
Speaker 1: too white. It only acknowledges middle class people, and there
Speaker 1: is space in that movie for that to not be
Speaker 1: the case, which we see because there's like little moments
Speaker 1: and little like tastes of like, oh, let's explore that.
Speaker 1: What is going on with the guy in the mail room,
Speaker 1: what's going on with the women of color near office?
Speaker 1: And they're there, but they're not allowed to take up
Speaker 1: space in the narrative, which is very of its time
Speaker 1: and unfortunately still of our time a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: and so like there was space for that. I wish
Speaker 1: the more space had been, you know, cut a minute
Speaker 1: out of each revenge fantasy and let Betty have a storyline. Um,
Speaker 1: but for fourth of the time weaknesses, it's still it's
Speaker 1: still is like everything that they're talking about is still
Speaker 1: relevant and unfortunately, like not a lot of progress has
Speaker 1: been made, Uh, so that's unfortunate. I'm going to give
Speaker 1: it four point to five nimbles. Uh, give all three
Speaker 1: of the gals one. Oh, I think Alfred Molina, who
Speaker 1: wouldn't have played well anyone, but I think in this
Speaker 1: one he was like, you know what I am, I'm
Speaker 1: just a fan. I'm Sanders. He could he could. He
Speaker 1: might have been too young to be Colonel Sanders, and
Speaker 1: I mean he's a chameleon. He would have been like
Speaker 1: thirty when this maybe no, not even he'd like, he's
Speaker 1: very young. He could have been Dwayne. He like a
Speaker 1: less problematic Dwyane, which one. Okay, let's go with that
Speaker 1: because I would love to see him kiss Dolly pardon. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: They were corny for each other to the Yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: they were. They were inactive. Yeah. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're about to go for them. Go there, married, they
Speaker 1: still do that, go for them. But yeah, Alfred Milena
Speaker 1: should have been Dwayne. So I'll give you know, my
Speaker 1: fourth nipple to Alfred Molina and the last quarter or no,
Speaker 1: I'll give my fourth nipple to Betty and then give
Speaker 1: the quarter to Alfred Milena. Sophie, Wow, it's your time
Speaker 1: to shine, Okay, okay, okay, I'm gonna go with uh
Speaker 1: four four point to five out of unison um, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one to Lily, one to Dolly, one
Speaker 1: to Jane, and then I'm going to give one to uh. Wait.
Speaker 1: I want to know the actress is name who played
Speaker 1: Margaret because she made me extremely happy. Elizabeth Wilson. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's Rose Ross is getting the quarter nip. Spoiler um,
Speaker 1: the actress who played Margaret, Peggy Pope shot at Peggy Pope,
Speaker 1: you get a whole nip. And then Elizabeth Wilson, who
Speaker 1: played Rose for you know, wanting to learn another language
Speaker 1: and bettering herself, gets a quarter nip even though she
Speaker 1: was deeply annoying, was just too obsessed with the male boss.
Speaker 1: But she now knows French, so yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, she was like, oh you want me to
Speaker 1: better myself? Bon jour, and you know what quarter nip
Speaker 1: for you? Ros? Sure? Yeah, we hope she grew with time.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well Sophie, who did it? You did it?
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Thanks to be here and thanks for being
Speaker 1: our producer and everything everything. Thanks for being my friend.
Speaker 1: Where can we follow you? And you're don Anderson online.
Speaker 1: So I only have Instagram, I don't have Twitter for
Speaker 1: the best yeah, yeah, but it's a Sophie Underscore ray,
Speaker 1: Underscore of Underscore Sunshine. Yeah. Hi everyone, it's present day
Speaker 1: Jamie and Caitlin back again with the outro to the episode.
Speaker 1: By the way, Sophie has since gotten a Twitter account,
Speaker 1: so you can follow her because at the time of
Speaker 1: this recording she only had an Instagram and and her Twitter.
Speaker 1: She has quite a few followers. She's got a big following. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you want to add to that, you can
Speaker 1: follow her on Twitter at why Sophie. Why there's underscores
Speaker 1: on either side of Sophie So why Underscore Sophie Underscore
Speaker 1: or why why being w h y and not the letter? Why? Wow? Listening?
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you taking notes? Um? So? Anyway, that
Speaker 1: was our unlocked Patreon slash Matreon episode on nine to five.
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to more Matreon episodes, because
Speaker 1: most of them we keep locked up, okay, yes, So
Speaker 1: the only way to access those is by going to
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash spectol cast and subscribing. It's five
Speaker 1: dollars a month. You get access to two bonus episodes
Speaker 1: every single month, plus the entire back catalog, and there
Speaker 1: are somewhere on like eight nine episodes there currently that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's quite a few. So if you've run out
Speaker 1: of main Feight episodes, that is the place to go.
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com, slash by cast. Also remember to listen
Speaker 1: to act cast. The first episode is out now and
Speaker 1: you can listen to ac cast on Mondays all the
Speaker 1: way through the summer. It's a summer podcast. Is it
Speaker 1: spelled A A c K. It's spelled A A c
Speaker 1: K cast by Jamie Loftus. You can also just search
Speaker 1: my name and it will come up because it is
Speaker 1: spelled uh in a confusing way. Might doom the show.
Speaker 1: We don't know uh. In any case, everyone please check
Speaker 1: out ac cast please and happy July, happy, you know,
Speaker 1: enjoy or summer safely. Yes, please, bye bye bye