Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL Podcast. Oh no, Welcome to another
Speaker 1: edition of the Around the NFL Podcast, presented by Into
Speaker 1: It quick Books, the official sponsor of the NFL. My
Speaker 1: name is Dan Ranzas, and I'm coming to you from
Speaker 1: a city filled with heroes. In Bunker's Mark Sessler, Chris Westling,
Speaker 1: Greg Rose Bal what's up boys? Hey? Dan? So Matt
Speaker 1: money Smith, who's the man? In fact, I am currently
Speaker 1: in the process of um rewatching the Great Nathan for
Speaker 1: You Comedy Central series with Nathan Fielder. Of course, I
Speaker 1: think one of the best TV shows period put out
Speaker 1: last decade. And when Matt money Smith shows up in
Speaker 1: the season one finale of Shame as the play by
Speaker 1: play man, uh for the entire segment. Yes go. If
Speaker 1: you have Hulu, go check it out because Money not
Speaker 1: only is in it has a pretty big role, including
Speaker 1: an interview at one point with Nathan. But anyway, as
Speaker 1: I'm watching it with my wife, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: was just texting with Money today. We were going through
Speaker 1: new Money Drop and it was great, and um, Money
Speaker 1: is one of those guys that like, you know, you
Speaker 1: want to have it on your text, you know you
Speaker 1: wanna be in connection with money because he's just one
Speaker 1: of those dudes. Yeah, you just want to have a
Speaker 1: text connection with money and he um. He did some
Speaker 1: new money drops for us, and when it came time
Speaker 1: to record the one you just heard, that was supposed
Speaker 1: to be a sneeze and then uh, we both decided
Speaker 1: sounds more like somebody came up from behind and hit
Speaker 1: him over the head with like a bow leng pin. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like either that or like an angry um. You know,
Speaker 1: COVID infested bird flew into his face with its sharp beak.
Speaker 1: Something went wrong there. There's a pool of blood basically,
Speaker 1: is the only thing that you can can kind of
Speaker 1: get out of that. I like and um unmasked attraction
Speaker 1: to a man with nine streams of income, Like it's
Speaker 1: it's like Matt money Smith never has money coming from
Speaker 1: less than nine or ten places at the same time. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's true. He's also called himself He's named
Speaker 1: himself off a currency, so it would be ridiculous if
Speaker 1: he were struggling financially, that would be absurd. I am
Speaker 1: not too proud to say there are certain figures in
Speaker 1: this industry that I I guess you could say look
Speaker 1: up to or just have an enormous amount of respect
Speaker 1: for to the point where I feel a little uncomfortable
Speaker 1: around the money. Money passes that test, and when I
Speaker 1: did the Power Ranking show with them this year, I
Speaker 1: was legitimately intimidated. Uh got to know each other. I
Speaker 1: don't know why, he's just Money is one of those guys.
Speaker 1: For me, I think everybody has them, or maybe maybe
Speaker 1: you don't, but I do. There's certain people. Check was
Speaker 1: the same thing for me when when we first started
Speaker 1: at the NFL UM I kind of knew of Shack,
Speaker 1: and when I started to get him knowing better, I
Speaker 1: was legitimately kind of um intimidated because I thought he
Speaker 1: was so smart and funny and cool. Money is the
Speaker 1: same way. I'm with you. That's me and do Orlando
Speaker 1: led Better, which I mentioned. I can't stop. I can't
Speaker 1: help but mention him, because you know, you grow up
Speaker 1: in this industry UM, and I came in late in life,
Speaker 1: and it's just great to see someone still pumping out
Speaker 1: the copy. And you know, I I think about it daily.
Speaker 1: The thing with Money and Check like they're clearly talented,
Speaker 1: but they're so approachable and so friendly that I almost
Speaker 1: don't even think of them on the professional level. I
Speaker 1: think I'm just like, Oh, those are good friends I
Speaker 1: work with who are eminently approachable. West, you gotta plug
Speaker 1: in and start texting these people and braggingy Lakisha about it.
Speaker 1: That's how you operate. I'm not sure that one really
Speaker 1: impressed Lakisha. That was a common man answer by West, like,
Speaker 1: that's why he's the top of the rankings. Frankly answers
Speaker 1: like that. I know that felt a little force. In
Speaker 1: case you're wondering what I'm doing, I'm over here texting
Speaker 1: Matt money Smith. What are you doing on the other
Speaker 1: side of the couch. All right, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: She was on the other side of the couch. Um,
Speaker 1: we are gonna do a deep dive. Yesterday we talked
Speaker 1: about the gray beards, which you could check that out
Speaker 1: at NFL dot com. And a quick correction, Yes, I
Speaker 1: brought up Andy Dalton on the roster. Uh. There was
Speaker 1: no pushback within the studio or from the various locations
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and it wasn't made aware. I wasn't
Speaker 1: made aware of it until hours later. That Dalton is
Speaker 1: obviously not a free agent. He's still uh member of
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Bengals. So a bad job by me, frankly,
Speaker 1: bad job by everyone else on the podcast. And we'll
Speaker 1: just and this is this is a Trumpian level of uh,
Speaker 1: not taking responsibility here. You know that I don't understand
Speaker 1: why that's Trumpian. I'm saying, I'm just from where you are.
Speaker 1: I messed up. I messed up by not bringing it up.
Speaker 1: But the fact that none of you said, hey, Dan,
Speaker 1: he's still on the Bengals. That just kind of the
Speaker 1: part that you're emphasizing right now, you're not emphasizing it
Speaker 1: starts with me. That's how you hear it. How about this,
Speaker 1: It starts with me. It starts with me. We don't know,
Speaker 1: you're a little all the rules that you're right, I
Speaker 1: did not think of them. Don't do that. See now
Speaker 1: you're passing the buck because you know the rules they
Speaker 1: had to be free agents. I'll just chop it up
Speaker 1: to not really the league day by day to take
Speaker 1: total blame for not knowing. But I think also Dan,
Speaker 1: maybe in the middle of a segment, stopping down to
Speaker 1: tell you that you've made a mistake. It's not something
Speaker 1: that we view as the easiest task. And I also
Speaker 1: will see I didn't catch it. I mean, there's some
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is not a good look for anyone,
Speaker 1: but I just and it starts with not a good
Speaker 1: look for the author of the art, not a lot
Speaker 1: of accountability, But it starts with me. Apparently it ends
Speaker 1: with me too. But yes, Andy Dalton, uh and he
Speaker 1: is not so Joe Flacco is the third string quarterback.
Speaker 1: Check it out NFL dot com slash slash hands us Greg,
Speaker 1: you have a piece coming up this week where you're
Speaker 1: going to essentially assign ultimate value to various quarterbacks. And
Speaker 1: just so everyone knows, for this segment, if Gregg makes
Speaker 1: any mistake, do not let him know because ultimately it
Speaker 1: is only on Greg. Now, I'm sure I will take
Speaker 1: full responsibility afterwards. Yes, Um, it's an ill policy, I would.
Speaker 1: I think in general we should aim to snuff out
Speaker 1: mistakes from here on out. There there could be a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's even how I can make
Speaker 1: a mistake here other than bad opinions. Um, because there's
Speaker 1: not too much rules, it's a little nebulous. That's why
Speaker 1: I'm asking you guys for help. Basically, the article is
Speaker 1: going to be which QB would you want? Moving forward?
Speaker 1: Everything considered. So that includes his age, his talent, and
Speaker 1: his skill level obviously that's the most important status, but
Speaker 1: also his contract. So you're taking the contract that he
Speaker 1: has into account. It would sort of be like trade value,
Speaker 1: but no one's trading these guys. That's not the point. Basically,
Speaker 1: do you want a guy like, let's say Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: you know, at the contract he's at, or do you
Speaker 1: wanted to Shawn Watson type? And so I've got like
Speaker 1: a rough draft and it won't be too deep a dive, Dan,
Speaker 1: because we're doing this show and under thirty minutes, whether
Speaker 1: it kills me or not. So we're at seven right now,
Speaker 1: we got twenty two left. It's not that the Are
Speaker 1: you guys ready for that? All right? We'll lead the way,
Speaker 1: all right, UM, I'll start the list, like I said,
Speaker 1: if there's any questions on kind of the definitions, but
Speaker 1: basically their current status, we can go through kind of
Speaker 1: the top of them. Um, and you let me know
Speaker 1: what you think. And I tried not to overrate the
Speaker 1: future too much. Yes, you have these guys indefinitely, but
Speaker 1: in theory, you're a GM who could get fired any
Speaker 1: any year now, so you can't be going through any
Speaker 1: terrible seasons, Why don't I read off my top ten? Uh,
Speaker 1: and I'll throw out a question and we'll go from there. Uh.
Speaker 1: Number one was easy for me. It was Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1: I have Russell Wilson number two. Gave him a little
Speaker 1: edge over Lamar Jackson, who's number three, just because Russ
Speaker 1: has done it year after year after year, and you
Speaker 1: just feel a little more comfortable with that. Deshaun Watson
Speaker 1: at four. And then this is where it started getting
Speaker 1: really hard for me. I have Carson Wentz at five,
Speaker 1: Matt Ryan at six, Aaron Rodgers at seven, Kyler Murray
Speaker 1: taking a swing here at eight. Dak Prescott is number nine,
Speaker 1: he's got that franchise tag, and number ten is Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: How about um, we start with you Dan. Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: at seven was sort of the reason why I thought
Speaker 1: of this whole exercise, Like, is Aaron Rodgers still a
Speaker 1: top five quarterback? I don't think he's played like a
Speaker 1: top five quarterback very often? Is he even a top
Speaker 1: five quarterback of guys you would want? Moving forward? He's
Speaker 1: thirty six years old, he's under contract for a couple
Speaker 1: more years. Right around where everyone is thirty two thirty
Speaker 1: three million dollars. He actually ended up a little higher
Speaker 1: at number seven than I thought he might be in
Speaker 1: the end, but that was as that was as high
Speaker 1: as I could put him. Is that disrespectful to a
Speaker 1: rod It is not disrespectful. In fact, you could probably
Speaker 1: push him down lower. Greg. You um, once you told
Speaker 1: us that we were doing this, SEG, I did a
Speaker 1: little bit of a research and and we all know
Speaker 1: that the way the things are set up with the
Speaker 1: collective Bargaining Agreement now that teams are a huge advantage
Speaker 1: when they hit on a quarterback and he's on that
Speaker 1: rookie deal. That's I imagine, UM, a major reason why
Speaker 1: you're doing this, because it really does illuminate that. But
Speaker 1: it's even crazier. UM. Then you first realize, when you
Speaker 1: really dig into the numbers, the fact that, UM, no
Speaker 1: quarterback on a deal worth more than twenty million a
Speaker 1: year has ever won the Super Bowl. It's never happened.
Speaker 1: And the fact that every time a team signs a
Speaker 1: superstar quarterback and you put Russell Wilson, I'd rather start
Speaker 1: their kind because do you have Russell Wilson to two?
Speaker 1: And I get it. I certainly understand that Wilson is
Speaker 1: as durable as any quarterback in the league. He's a superstar,
Speaker 1: he's a super Bowl winner, He's been to two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1: But since Russell Wilson signed his first post rookie deal
Speaker 1: contract in two thousand fifteen, and then he got another
Speaker 1: extension in twenty nineteen, they've never went further than the
Speaker 1: divisional playoffs. And to me, all that says is not
Speaker 1: that Russell Wilson is not a great quarterback or that
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers isn't a potential goat level quarterback. But when
Speaker 1: you put together an exercise like the value of a
Speaker 1: quarterback the way the league is set up, I don't
Speaker 1: know how you don't put all rookie guys in the
Speaker 1: top ten because we history tells us that you can't
Speaker 1: win a Super Bowl the way things are set up
Speaker 1: right now financially, which I think not for nothing, is
Speaker 1: a major problem for the league. I think that's a
Speaker 1: garbage stat I don't know if it's reality though us.
Speaker 1: If the Falcons defense doesn't crumble, and that's that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist because Matt Ryan's got a Super Bowl. That's You
Speaker 1: can play with stats all you want, I don't put
Speaker 1: much stock in that. To me, give me the better quarterback.
Speaker 1: I don't care about their salaries. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like we've been trained on this show too, uh
Speaker 1: disregards salary. I mean, I get that if you've got
Speaker 1: like a Nick Foles issue where he's being outplayed and
Speaker 1: he's got this ballooning paycheck, that it's just an outrage
Speaker 1: on paper. But I I I struggle a little bit
Speaker 1: with the exercise in terms of like saying no to
Speaker 1: a premier talent because of their price tag, because no,
Speaker 1: I know you're not, but I'm just like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why I would. Can I just say for me,
Speaker 1: the list got a little weird for me from six
Speaker 1: through ten because I just the way I am. I
Speaker 1: would take Aaron Rodgers over Matt Ryan any day of
Speaker 1: the week. I liked. I like that you're taking a
Speaker 1: shot on like Kyler Murray, and I I wouldn't trust
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray at eight just because like, I feel like
Speaker 1: I got burned on first year quarterbacks a year ago,
Speaker 1: and so that's sell bias. But then you know, in
Speaker 1: an off season where I'm not going to be um
Speaker 1: taking any daddy trips are traveling probably anywhere at all.
Speaker 1: You've made my off season by putting Baker Mayfield a ten.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I trust it, but um, you
Speaker 1: won me over with the concept of it. Uh the
Speaker 1: list from there gets really weird. Yeah, well we'll move
Speaker 1: into that in a sect. But the Baker thing, Baker
Speaker 1: was one of the toughest ones to put there because
Speaker 1: Dan's you know, everyone's right here. I think a rookie
Speaker 1: contracts a huge advantage, but I think you can win
Speaker 1: without it. Not only Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson would have
Speaker 1: won one. I mean, what about Tom Brady in the
Speaker 1: final score of one game? Finding second deals like in
Speaker 1: year three and start, they're not all going through their
Speaker 1: home Brady one, as we talked on in this podcast
Speaker 1: of team friendly deals, that will get if he was
Speaker 1: making more than to me that these prices are not
Speaker 1: prohibitive of being a contend and team And I'm like West,
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately the contracts weren't like the most massive
Speaker 1: part of this for me. Russell Wilson, to me, is
Speaker 1: just such a safe, uh feeling to have him as
Speaker 1: your quarterback. And I'm thinking even long term is five
Speaker 1: or six years because you could get fired. You want
Speaker 1: to win the Super Bowl this year, and so I
Speaker 1: gave him just a little edge over uh Lamar and Watson,
Speaker 1: just because of all the times they've been together. To me,
Speaker 1: it got tougher. Yeah, getting down to Rogers, I like
Speaker 1: Matt right, I would actually take Matt Ryan in two
Speaker 1: thousand twenty just for one year over Rogers. I think
Speaker 1: I like Ryan that much. It's just by a little.
Speaker 1: But he's also two years younger, and Rogers has some
Speaker 1: guaranteed money in the rest of his contract, where you know,
Speaker 1: who knows. I would take Ryan, but Baker and then
Speaker 1: Dak and Kyler they're eight nine ten. That's where it
Speaker 1: gets really hard, and I could clarify something. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: said for two twenty only, is that what this list is? No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm saying to even make my point, like Ryan is
Speaker 1: younger and his contracts like a little better than Rodgers.
Speaker 1: But I actually even like Ryan in the immediate present
Speaker 1: a little better than Rogers. What about whence at five?
Speaker 1: That one shocked me the most when you sent this list,
Speaker 1: that that one really kind of caught me off guard.
Speaker 1: I still I don't know. I I still believe he's
Speaker 1: he's threading that needle where I've seen enough that I
Speaker 1: believe in him for the next seven or eight years,
Speaker 1: even if he's not quite at that very top level,
Speaker 1: and he's got the advantage of um, you know, his age,
Speaker 1: that he's still so young, and even though he's making
Speaker 1: a lot of money, like there aren't that many guys
Speaker 1: like that in that middle in that middle tier of quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: like who are still young? Kind of like whence um
Speaker 1: at that position in this exercise, are you saying essentially
Speaker 1: you are the football's are you're coming out of this?
Speaker 1: You've got to explain to a fan base. I had, um,
Speaker 1: you know, based on money and skill and everything else,
Speaker 1: my pick of the litter, and I've come out with
Speaker 1: Matt Ryan is my choice. I just think the you
Speaker 1: would have um some feedback on that decision if you
Speaker 1: came out with him. I like Matt Ryan, but like
Speaker 1: out of this whole list either, there's just literally no
Speaker 1: way that I would lean on him at this point
Speaker 1: in his career over some of the people around him.
Speaker 1: But that's me, And like, you know, I might see
Speaker 1: I might go five and eleven. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess I'm a I'm a matt Ryan fan. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I look at it kind of like which team's
Speaker 1: fan base should be most happy with their quarterback situation?
Speaker 1: And part part of the reason, and let's hit Baker
Speaker 1: and then we'll get into the next ten. But part
Speaker 1: of the reason is some of these older guys like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're excited to get Tom Brady, but is that an
Speaker 1: even better than average, you know, quarterback situation. The reason
Speaker 1: I had Baker ten, though, is because of the age
Speaker 1: and because he showed enough in his rookie year that
Speaker 1: I feel like that's enough for me to hold onto that.
Speaker 1: The fact that he's in his rookie contract now for
Speaker 1: three more years and he's young, and he's shown you
Speaker 1: so thing that I would take him just barely, although
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of like debating this list before I
Speaker 1: put it out, just barely over the next group of players,
Speaker 1: which is Matthew Stafford who could have been higher. Kirk
Speaker 1: Cousins Jimmy Garoppolo are the next uh three on the
Speaker 1: list eleven, twelve, thirteen, And those are guys who are
Speaker 1: still basically in the middle of their prime. To me,
Speaker 1: Baker's upside and then he actually showed you something on
Speaker 1: the field his rookie year as as as up and
Speaker 1: down as his second year was that. I can hold
Speaker 1: onto that and and feel like like much brighter days
Speaker 1: or ahead. Yeah, I'm in the based off the rookie year.
Speaker 1: I'm based off the rookie year. I feel that for sure,
Speaker 1: I would say it was little up and down as
Speaker 1: generous for Baker's second year. That's fair, But I don't
Speaker 1: disagree that he flashed enough as a rookie and Freddie
Speaker 1: Kitchens was obviously a disaster. Yeah, I think the coaching
Speaker 1: staff was on like a deep based psilocybin trips from Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you kind of give him a little bit of
Speaker 1: a mulligan here and then see what's happening year three.
Speaker 1: So there's a projection there that like would you rather
Speaker 1: have him or Stafford or who I'd rather have him
Speaker 1: than Dak? I mean, Dad's gonna get paid big time.
Speaker 1: And who do you think a better quarterback talent, Dac
Speaker 1: or Baker Mayfield? I think it's Baker. Adac is more
Speaker 1: reliable and consistent to me, But for upside the ability
Speaker 1: to make all the throws and make them well, give
Speaker 1: me Baker. I mean I think a little bit what like,
Speaker 1: there's the Baker personality side, which might not fit with
Speaker 1: some teams. But let's say that that got cleaned up
Speaker 1: and you put Baker on the Patriots this year and
Speaker 1: in an organization that can just totally foster and grow him.
Speaker 1: I mean, I take him over a bunch of people
Speaker 1: based on age and all the other stuff. Dakdak, I'd
Speaker 1: feel the same way, though I've seen enough. I don't
Speaker 1: think he's had like the best coaching in the world.
Speaker 1: You're right, uh West. As I'm thinking about this, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you've done the franchise tag. Next year, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to give him a huge contract. But most
Speaker 1: of these guys are on similar ish contracts. Stafford's deal
Speaker 1: is actually so friendly. I gave him a little bit
Speaker 1: of an edge. And that's we're thinking about. I'll let
Speaker 1: me run through the next list. It's it's Stafford at eleven,
Speaker 1: Cousins twelve, Jimmy Garoppolo at thirteen, and then it gets
Speaker 1: really hard. Drew Brees is fourteen. He's on that one
Speaker 1: essentially a one year guaranteed, but it's a two year deal.
Speaker 1: Sam Donald is at fifteen. In the middle of all
Speaker 1: these old guys Ben Roethlisberger sixteen, Tom Brady seventeen, and
Speaker 1: then Jared Goff, Derek Carr, and Ryan Tannehill wrap up
Speaker 1: the top twenty, and the the old guys was tough
Speaker 1: to figure out what to do with here, Like would
Speaker 1: you rather have Breeze in Brady like right now or
Speaker 1: Sam Donald? I I know it seems like an obvious
Speaker 1: answer that that Sam Donald's the answer, But I know
Speaker 1: that bree I think that Breeze is going to give
Speaker 1: you a chance to win a title like right now,
Speaker 1: and I think that Brady is gonna give you an advantage.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if Donald's gonna do that or not.
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm sort of confused. Why Donald so much
Speaker 1: higher than other young quarterbacks who have not proven to
Speaker 1: be even average? What do you mean to the point
Speaker 1: he should be? He should have been three spots higher
Speaker 1: than Jared Goff, who took his team to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: You have him nine spots higher than Josh Allen Um
Speaker 1: eleven spots, twelve spots higher than Dwayne Haskins. I get that.
Speaker 1: Um to me, why why is Sam Donald so separate
Speaker 1: from all the other young, unproven quarterbacks because I'm afraid
Speaker 1: of Dan Dan's reaction. Now he was a guy I
Speaker 1: thought like I could get grief for being too high
Speaker 1: the other way here here's your answer though, because he's younger.
Speaker 1: First of all, he's like a lot younger, and the
Speaker 1: skill set when you just when you see him the
Speaker 1: good things that he does, you can see why people
Speaker 1: are in love with him. Um. And whereas those other
Speaker 1: young guys golf, I've seen an off that like that
Speaker 1: middle tier golf car and Tannael, That's not really where
Speaker 1: I would want to be as a GM because I
Speaker 1: think then you're you're in the middle. Whereas Donald's a
Speaker 1: little more boom or bust. Right now, you don't know
Speaker 1: if he's but I think there's a better chance for
Speaker 1: him to climb high than than God. I see this
Speaker 1: as a fundamental flaw with with the list do you have, Greg,
Speaker 1: is that if you're gonna put Baker at ten and
Speaker 1: Bank on his first year, and then you're gonna bury
Speaker 1: Josh Allen wherever you have him because he's been inconsistent,
Speaker 1: which Baker has as well, only Allen's had some team success. Um.
Speaker 1: It seems like those guys are just too spread apart,
Speaker 1: and either Allen's got to come up or or Baker,
Speaker 1: to me, has to go down. Or what I would
Speaker 1: do personally is kind of put them move uh, Alan up,
Speaker 1: Baker down, and keep Donald right in the middle and
Speaker 1: have them all kind of a little closer together. It
Speaker 1: seems a little odd that Alan is so far down
Speaker 1: to Baker, so far up. Alan is just my evalue
Speaker 1: and that I don't want any part of him. I wouldn't,
Speaker 1: like anyone who's listened to the show last season gets
Speaker 1: that he's not your favorite of the like I don't
Speaker 1: have to give him credit that he had enough year.
Speaker 1: To me, it's not like who's had the best career
Speaker 1: so far, it's like who would you want to be
Speaker 1: your quarterback? And my feeling and until I see much
Speaker 1: more is that Josh Allen is like a best case
Speaker 1: scenario headed straight for the middle, and I don't want.
Speaker 1: I don't want fundamentally, Yeah, human exercise, So that makes sense.
Speaker 1: But you could argue that you're overlooking how you know
Speaker 1: terrible Mayfield is was for stretches last year, while not
Speaker 1: overlooking Allen, uh for the same foibles that he had
Speaker 1: at times. I get it, but I think Baker played
Speaker 1: better than Josh Allen last year. I stop, I really do.
Speaker 1: I really like Josh Allen. You worked around like they
Speaker 1: worked around him, um, but it really worked around him
Speaker 1: in that Cowboys game. He sure he had some he
Speaker 1: had some good games and everything, but you're acting like
Speaker 1: they don't exist. I'm acting like you are you gonna
Speaker 1: get sixteen of them from a guy that that can't
Speaker 1: shoot straight and quarter like like that's fair, but like,
Speaker 1: are you ever gonna get him to be a top
Speaker 1: eight to ten quarterback? That's why, like Donald was tough
Speaker 1: for me, because if you just looked at the numbers,
Speaker 1: you know, if you looked at the quarterback RADI and
Speaker 1: the PFF RADI and some of the advanced stats, he's
Speaker 1: one of the worst quarterbacks you know in the NFL.
Speaker 1: And there's not a long history. In fact, there's almost
Speaker 1: no um history profile. You know, Football Perspective did something
Speaker 1: on that someone with his numbers in terms of yards
Speaker 1: pertempt and some of these other numbers, having the two
Speaker 1: first years that he have, has almost never become a
Speaker 1: top shelf quarterback. I think that's why I think that
Speaker 1: I will not argue that he should be higher. I
Speaker 1: I could see the other side that he should be lower.
Speaker 1: But I think, and you guys talk about this all
Speaker 1: the time, UM, that you shouldn't face things just off stats,
Speaker 1: and you should you should trust you eyes, West says,
Speaker 1: And I know that's what I think. It's a good
Speaker 1: spot for him. I think with Donald that if you
Speaker 1: are watching these Jets games and you're watching the organization
Speaker 1: that he's essentially trapped with. UM. He has been hurt
Speaker 1: a lot by the surroundings, by the skill to level
Speaker 1: which is bad, the coaching which has been shaky, bad
Speaker 1: luck with the mono, and I think if you watch
Speaker 1: the games, there are moments where he is flashed where
Speaker 1: you wonder if he was drafted into a better situation,
Speaker 1: let's say he went to Kansas City, whether he is
Speaker 1: a guy that's seen as like a young star. I
Speaker 1: really I mean, and I'm saying that you could say, oh, Dan,
Speaker 1: you're being a homer. Of what I'm saying is is
Speaker 1: that I don't know if Donald's ever gonna be any
Speaker 1: good with the Jets, But I do believe that if
Speaker 1: he was in a better situation, that he could be
Speaker 1: a real pro Bowl level guy. UM. But because of
Speaker 1: the way the first two years have gone. He's very murky.
Speaker 1: It makes total sense to me that he would kind
Speaker 1: of be uh in this type of realm for you
Speaker 1: on this list. I think people are a little too
Speaker 1: down on Baker's season, Like, for instance, Pro Football Focus
Speaker 1: had him eighteen. He had him right behind Carson Wentz,
Speaker 1: right ahead of Philip Rivers last year. That doesn't seem
Speaker 1: that crazy to me. On a game to make game basis,
Speaker 1: I think like people are so bad, so wrapped up
Speaker 1: in the expectations and in the attention that he was
Speaker 1: so he was like not great, but I think he was.
Speaker 1: It doesn't surprise me that they had him ten fifteen
Speaker 1: spots ahead of Josh Allen, that they had him ten
Speaker 1: spots ahead of I don't think he was better than
Speaker 1: Josh Allen last year. I think he was worse than
Speaker 1: Josh Allen and PFF can take a hike well. I mean,
Speaker 1: but from another angle, in terms of building a team,
Speaker 1: why would you not take Josh Allen, corn Old Baker,
Speaker 1: any of the younger guys over um. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know how long you're projecting this team to exist.
Speaker 1: But although although I could sell tickets with Tom Brady,
Speaker 1: and Drew Brees. You know, it's it's it's of Philip
Speaker 1: Rivers cult situation. It's a band aid to get you
Speaker 1: to the next draft or maybe the draft after that.
Speaker 1: I would go younger guy with potential, which would be Donald.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Dan is a good point that
Speaker 1: you're stuck watching these young guys on these these dis organized,
Speaker 1: you know, troubled franchises that yes, they should separate and
Speaker 1: show the skill set no matter what the surrounding is.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like, if we're gonna kill Baker for
Speaker 1: last year and look at completely different from his rookie season,
Speaker 1: then we're not looking at the entire picture. And the
Speaker 1: same goes for Donald. I mean, young quarterbacks are not
Speaker 1: mavericks to do it all on their own, and Baker
Speaker 1: that proved that last year. And you're if you're if
Speaker 1: you're in a total chaos, chaotic soup for sixteen games,
Speaker 1: it's gonna show. Hey, Greg, you got about four minutes, buddy,
Speaker 1: I know I checked that. That's fine. We've gotten through
Speaker 1: the big stuff. The rest of the list, just for
Speaker 1: the listeners. Daniel Jones at twenty one Philip Rivers, who
Speaker 1: I do think I should move down I I agree
Speaker 1: with you, guys Um at twenty two, Gardner Minshew at three,
Speaker 1: Josh Alan Teddy's at twenty five, Andy Dalton who is
Speaker 1: under contract, Haskins, Falls, Fitzpatrick, Brissette, Tyrod. Then it gets ugly.
Speaker 1: And why is Drew Lock at thirty two? I don't
Speaker 1: Drew Lock at thirty two? Why is Drew Lock at
Speaker 1: thirty two and you've got demonstrated backups ahead of him
Speaker 1: he is? I don't know because if here here's part
Speaker 1: of the reason why, Like when you ask how far
Speaker 1: am I going into the future, Like if I'm in
Speaker 1: this team, if I'm putting Drew Lock out there and
Speaker 1: he stinks and you're four and twelve, it's like with
Speaker 1: this team, I think like you could be fired in
Speaker 1: that situation, Like I don't know if he's ever gonna
Speaker 1: be as good as football astrated mediocrity over an unknown
Speaker 1: Like to me, I'm philosophically opposed that in every way
Speaker 1: the clock over Tyrod Taylor in a second for me,
Speaker 1: just based on why not you know sure if the if,
Speaker 1: but if the if, the unknown is something you've kind
Speaker 1: of you haven't seen anything from, and you have no
Speaker 1: reason to think because at least there's a percentage chance
Speaker 1: he's gonna lead me to the playoffs, Whereas I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not taking Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tyrod Taylor above. That's fair.
Speaker 1: Maybe Lock should be like a little bit higher uh
Speaker 1: than those guys, but real precises like who you would
Speaker 1: pick if any anywhere like Locked. This is why I
Speaker 1: wanted to do the show with you guys, so you
Speaker 1: would go crazy on it. I'm not trying to like
Speaker 1: provoke react. It really is what I would do. Like
Speaker 1: Tyrod Taylor is making five million dollars this year, I
Speaker 1: guess I look at it in the case too much.
Speaker 1: If Drew locks, If Drew Lock has Tyrod Taylor's career,
Speaker 1: that will be beating the odds. The odds are that
Speaker 1: he's gonna have at Yeah, who cares about that? Like,
Speaker 1: all I want is does does he have any chance
Speaker 1: of being the answer? And Tyrod Taylor has none? I
Speaker 1: guess for now, my my thought of Drew Lock is
Speaker 1: he has no better chance than an average second round pick,
Speaker 1: maybe a worse than average chance. And to me, he's
Speaker 1: more pretty tallenged than than a typical second round pick.
Speaker 1: Like you can see, the traits are there, he has
Speaker 1: the talent. He didn't embarrass himself in his first few
Speaker 1: games as a starter, Like, I just don't get that
Speaker 1: if you have any chance whatsoever of being the answer,
Speaker 1: because all that matters is being the answer. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: you want to keep the only thing that matters at
Speaker 1: quarterback Nick Foles. That list, he was the answer to
Speaker 1: win the Super Bowl and like the greatest game of
Speaker 1: his life. So I'm say there are other values round talent.
Speaker 1: He had the month of his life that's gone. I
Speaker 1: should you should combine on a list and then crab
Speaker 1: off the list that Dan and I have concocted. Um
Speaker 1: currently during the show together, Um Greg, circling back to
Speaker 1: the beginning of the conversation. I know the time level
Speaker 1: time wise, but just looking according to spot Rack, Um,
Speaker 1: Tom Brady never was more than twenty million on the
Speaker 1: books for the Patriots. In fact, until this year, I
Speaker 1: should say he was twenty three million UH in total cash.
Speaker 1: He was always under twenty and to find it since
Speaker 1: the Collectic Bargaining Agreement UH went into effect in the Chace,
Speaker 1: at one point he had the highest cap figure in
Speaker 1: the league two thousand ten. But that was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. Um, since two thousand twelve and the c
Speaker 1: b A went into effect, only one quarterback is won
Speaker 1: and on a second contract Eli Manning against your Pats
Speaker 1: now West, you you could say that doesn't matter. At
Speaker 1: what point does that become a number that does matter
Speaker 1: to you? Because if it's if it's happened, hasn't happened
Speaker 1: since the c b A and it's been eight years,
Speaker 1: how long before that becomes a trend? And to that point,
Speaker 1: if this continues to be a situation where teams pay
Speaker 1: quarterbacks a massive amount of money when they become stars
Speaker 1: and they never win. Could have become a situation the
Speaker 1: way like the Steelers handle wide receivers, where they just
Speaker 1: they hold on to a quarterback and then they let
Speaker 1: him go because they see that the model doesn't work
Speaker 1: to give that guy a huge percentage of the cap.
Speaker 1: I know it sounds crazy, but we need to see
Speaker 1: some evidence that this works under the current um salary
Speaker 1: cap in this league. You're asking me the question, My
Speaker 1: answer is it's never going to matter to me because
Speaker 1: the status flawed. It's just terribly flawed. So Jimmy Garoppolo
Speaker 1: is leading for three quarters last year, he can have
Speaker 1: a bad game and if his defense holds against Patrick Mahomes,
Speaker 1: the stat is all of a sudden out the window.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make it doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1: I don't like the stat. It doesn't matter to me
Speaker 1: at all, and it never will matter to me. I
Speaker 1: look more at like but then like, to that point,
Speaker 1: just one thing was to that point what people say,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people would be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: Joe Montana never lost the Super Bowl and that's why
Speaker 1: he's the best quarterback. And it's like, oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: if this player didn't drop an interception, that's what sports is.
Speaker 1: That stuff happens all the time and right, but you
Speaker 1: don't want general managers making decisions off of what fans
Speaker 1: are talking about. It's not what fans are talking about.
Speaker 1: It's just the reality that it's not happening. And I
Speaker 1: would happen. I would base it more on the wreck
Speaker 1: like which teams are making the playoffs, which teams are
Speaker 1: getting buys, which teams are getting twelve wins? And I
Speaker 1: would have to go do a deep dive. But to me,
Speaker 1: tons and tons of the high percentage of those teams
Speaker 1: are led by quarterbacks on their second third contracts. And
Speaker 1: the fact that they haven't like gotten over the finish
Speaker 1: line is to me just kind of like a fluke.
Speaker 1: I mean, but Dan, let's throw it to the Jets.
Speaker 1: Let's say Donald has a great thirty years. Well just know,
Speaker 1: but like, are you, like, are you going to cling
Speaker 1: to this? We went so far over nugget because you
Speaker 1: don't want Sam Donald suddenly paid a second contract because
Speaker 1: like history tells us in theory that they those quarterbacks
Speaker 1: aren't winning super Bowl so far. History tells us no,
Speaker 1: of course I want Donald on my team. History tells
Speaker 1: us that it's really difficult to win a super Bowl
Speaker 1: when you have to give that much of out of
Speaker 1: your cap to a star quarterback. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Why is it so much harder to I don't know.
Speaker 1: To me, if you've made it to the super Bowl,
Speaker 1: that's as impressive as winning a super Bowl. Like you've
Speaker 1: made it with an expensive quarterback, that means you're good
Speaker 1: the well okay, but but listen. The only reason I
Speaker 1: bring it up is because for this purpose is of
Speaker 1: this exercise and defining a value to a quarterback, I
Speaker 1: believe that the quarterback on the rookie contract is insanely
Speaker 1: valuable in this league based on what we've seen since
Speaker 1: the CBA came in. And that's it. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I would not have to. It's a short term
Speaker 1: luxury that you want that you kind of walk into
Speaker 1: beyond your control if that rookie hits. But then you're
Speaker 1: going to have to deal with the same pressures that
Speaker 1: everyone else with a successful quarterback deals with. And then
Speaker 1: and then the teams with a younger quarterback have the
Speaker 1: advantage in the league, which I I maybe there's some
Speaker 1: type of fix in the future if this does become
Speaker 1: a long term thing where you get a little capitally
Speaker 1: for keeping your in house guy. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it's been something that I've seen as a potential issue
Speaker 1: in the league because you always want the quarterback to
Speaker 1: stay with the team almost always. But if it's leading
Speaker 1: to a competitive disadvantage ultimately, then there's something wrong with that.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's overrated also because your
Speaker 1: next two guys usually take up more space on the
Speaker 1: cap than your quarterback anyways, so it's like it's your
Speaker 1: your top defensive end, let's say, in your top offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: like those guys add up to more than a quarterback.
Speaker 1: So it's it's about like how you build a team.
Speaker 1: Like the quarterback doesn't seem like it's outside on the cap.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's flukey. We've gone way over. But
Speaker 1: it is the reason why Baker and Kyler are up
Speaker 1: there in the top ten because they're on those rookie
Speaker 1: deals and they've already shown that they can play the
Speaker 1: other guys on the rookie deals. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're champion, you know what their championship. I put Kyler higher,
Speaker 1: by the way, but you know I am gonna move
Speaker 1: some of these around because of you guys. Lock does
Speaker 1: deserve to be higher. I I didn't put a lot
Speaker 1: lot of emphasis on the right. Put lots number one
Speaker 1: and watch this article. Well, go off into the skies.
Speaker 1: That's how you do it, all right? When is it
Speaker 1: going up? Greg? I think it got pushed back. It
Speaker 1: was supposed to be. It's now Friday, so you know,
Speaker 1: we really tease this out come the end of the week.
Speaker 1: Check it out NFL dot com slash Rosenthal and see
Speaker 1: if any of this conversation has led to changes and
Speaker 1: how he sees the landscape and professional football Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. To be Around the NFL Podcast presented by
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Speaker 1: the NFL, Dan Hansas signing up for the Quiet Star
Speaker 1: on the mail Man, the Boston Rickey behind the glass.
Speaker 1: It was that s