WEBVTT - "One, Two, Three … Cancun!"

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<v Speaker 1>Before we begin, a reminder to please rate and review

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<v Speaker 1>our show. It helps new listeners discover us and grow

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<v Speaker 1>the program. On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly. For years,

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<v Speaker 1>one simple phrase has served as a catch all for

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<v Speaker 1>NBA teams that have mailed it in and are ready

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<v Speaker 1>for the postseason to be over. One to three Cancun

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<v Speaker 1>s I Senior writer Howard Beck joins me to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>where the saying came from, how it became famous among

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<v Speaker 1>NBA players and fans alike, and how it's maybe more

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<v Speaker 1>popular than ever more than two decades after it was

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<v Speaker 1>first uttered. This is the legend of one to three Cancun.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and I

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. Howard Beck. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. You're here again. I'm here again.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel just like a regular guest. I'm just gonna

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<v Speaker 1>like set myself down on the couch. I'm gonna open

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<v Speaker 1>your fridge and grab myself a beer. I feel. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how at home I feel. Make yourself at home, my casa,

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<v Speaker 1>your casa. You know, we've done a lot of things

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<v Speaker 1>on this show together. We started the very first episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we had you discussing the Warriors being back. We previewed

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<v Speaker 1>the playoffs together in a very profane conversation. We discussed

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<v Speaker 1>the NBA's profanity problem. But of all the segments that

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<v Speaker 1>we've done together, I don't think I've been as excited

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<v Speaker 1>as I have for this one, because you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>go s I dot com one day and all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden, there it is, in all its glory. The

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<v Speaker 1>story of one to three Cancun, which is legendary NBA circles,

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<v Speaker 1>has written by one Howard Back. It's the catch phrase

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<v Speaker 1>known and loved in the NBA, certainly by NBA media.

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<v Speaker 1>So before we get into the origins, explaining macro terms

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<v Speaker 1>for everybody, the meaning behind the phrase one to three cancun,

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<v Speaker 1>how it's employed well too, three cancun means it's over done,

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<v Speaker 1>time for vacation. So one two three Cancun. In the

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<v Speaker 1>context of the NBA playoffs and certainly on inside the

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<v Speaker 1>NBA on t NT that is now part and parcel

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<v Speaker 1>of the Gone Fishing segment. Your team gets eliminated, either

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the regular season if you're out,

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<v Speaker 1>or if you missed the playoffs. You lost in the

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<v Speaker 1>play in now or any round of the playoffs that

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<v Speaker 1>you've lost, it's time for gone fishing. And when it's

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<v Speaker 1>time for gone fishing, it's time to say one to

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<v Speaker 1>three cancoon. And since the Lakers lost, it's what canco.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned inside the NBA, and they're probably the most

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<v Speaker 1>prolific users of the phrase, but really everybody uses it now.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the media, But it's been a while now

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<v Speaker 1>since it originated. It traces back to the Western Conference Finals.

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<v Speaker 1>The Lakers had a young Shock and even younger Kobe.

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<v Speaker 1>They were getting ruined by the Jazz. So take us

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<v Speaker 1>back to that time and tell everybody about how the

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<v Speaker 1>phrase originated and the origin an old genius behind it.

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<v Speaker 1>The Western Conference Finals in is just the most lopsided

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<v Speaker 1>of affairs. It's Krmelon and John Stockton, of course, the

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<v Speaker 1>legendary duo for the Jazz and this really mature, methodical

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<v Speaker 1>team and they're going up against the Lakers team that's

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<v Speaker 1>really talented but young. They haven't figured it out yet.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Shack and Kobe's second year together. Kobe is still

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<v Speaker 1>just nineteen years old. They've got Robert Ory, Rick Fox,

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<v Speaker 1>Derek Fisher, like all the guys who you now think

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<v Speaker 1>of as part of a dynasty. But this is before

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<v Speaker 1>the dynasty happens, before they figured it out. And they've

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<v Speaker 1>still got Nick van Exel in his fifth season, They've

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<v Speaker 1>got Eddie Jones. This is a really talented team, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>too talented, maybe too many guys who wanted to be

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<v Speaker 1>the featured player. That's possible, and at that time, the

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<v Speaker 1>expectations already through the roof because of all this young talent.

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<v Speaker 1>They're supposed to make a run. They don't have the

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<v Speaker 1>polish or the efficiency, the mature, the togetherness to beat

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<v Speaker 1>the Jazz. So they're on their way to getting swept.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the key part of this. So they're on

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<v Speaker 1>their way to getting swept. They have their team huddle,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like this happens in all team sports. Put

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<v Speaker 1>your hand in the middle on three, you say a phrase,

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<v Speaker 1>and the general phrase for everybody else was one to

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<v Speaker 1>three lakers, right, a pretty stock and standard phrase for

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<v Speaker 1>everybody to you know, rally around or fake rallying around

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<v Speaker 1>before they go out and have the Jazz beat their heads.

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<v Speaker 1>And but there was one guy who didn't do one

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<v Speaker 1>to three lakers. He did one two, three, Cancun and

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<v Speaker 1>tell us about him. That would be Nick van Exel.

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<v Speaker 1>They're down three oh at the time, we know this.

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<v Speaker 1>We know this even more now in two than they did.

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<v Speaker 1>No one had ever come back from three oh. Then

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four years later, still know what has come back

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<v Speaker 1>from three oh. When you're down three oh, you know

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<v Speaker 1>your time is coming. You're almost done. Vacation is close.

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<v Speaker 1>So in the moment, on a whim they're huddling up one, two, three,

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<v Speaker 1>Nick van Exel just blurts out Cancoon when everyone else

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<v Speaker 1>said lakers. And because everyone else said lakers in Unison,

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<v Speaker 1>probably not everybody heard it. Those who did hear it,

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<v Speaker 1>some might have chuckled or smiled, some others might have

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<v Speaker 1>wrinkled the brow a little bit, because though Nick van

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<v Speaker 1>Exel could be a bit of a jokester, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>clear to everybody. Is he saying he's done, he's given up,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm out of here, guys? Is it just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>dark humor? What does that mean? Because it came across like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe Nick van Exel is just saying, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>about you, guys, but I'm ready to go on vacation.

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<v Speaker 1>What I love about this story is that you have

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<v Speaker 1>talked to the principal players, Nick van Exel, and you

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<v Speaker 1>had a conversation about this. What was his explanation, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>was it spontaneous? Did he decide to be purposefully snarky

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<v Speaker 1>that had just come out accidentally? What was his explanation

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<v Speaker 1>in retrospect? So I spoke to Nick ve next Well,

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<v Speaker 1>who is now, of course, an assistant coach with the

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<v Speaker 1>Atlanta Hawks. He's been an assistant coach in the league

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<v Speaker 1>for several years now, and Nick says, there was nothing

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<v Speaker 1>premeditated here, Like he didn't wake up that day thinking

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna make this joke in the huddle. He didn't

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<v Speaker 1>think about it on his drive in. I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>he even knew he was going to say it at

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<v Speaker 1>the moment that they first started to all say together

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<v Speaker 1>one to three. It was just what came out. He thought,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, I'm gonna make a crack here. He

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<v Speaker 1>can't even really account for why it was Cancun as

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<v Speaker 1>opposed to say Fiji or Maui or Puerto Rico. It

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<v Speaker 1>was the place that popped into his head first, and Cancoon,

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<v Speaker 1>as it happens, was a really popular place for athletes

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<v Speaker 1>and entertainers at that time, or as Robert Orry told me,

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<v Speaker 1>a popular place for African American athletes and entertainers at

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<v Speaker 1>that time. That was a big I think they had

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<v Speaker 1>a jazz festival, and so Robert was telling me that

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<v Speaker 1>that was where you see a lot of people. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a go to spot. As you said, some people

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<v Speaker 1>might have snickered, some people might have furrowed their brow.

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<v Speaker 1>And after all this goes down. The next season, Nick

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<v Speaker 1>van Exel gets traded and there was a report in

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<v Speaker 1>the l A Times at the time that Shack had

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<v Speaker 1>complained to Jerry West about the remark and the implication

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<v Speaker 1>was that he almost got traded because of one two

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<v Speaker 1>three cancoon. But you debunked this, Yeah, I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to say debunk um. You know, these stories tend to

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<v Speaker 1>evolve over time. People's memories evolve. And also you know

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<v Speaker 1>that that initial report in the l A Times was

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<v Speaker 1>was an item in a notes column, so it's very short.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of elaboration. It didn't say sources,

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't say sources who knew it because of so

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot that was kind of shrouded in

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<v Speaker 1>that report. I will say that there are differing views

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<v Speaker 1>of a couple of things. One, did Shaq really go

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<v Speaker 1>to management? Nick told me, yeah, I heard that Shack

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<v Speaker 1>didn't like it, and yeah, he might have gone to

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry West who was then the g M, and complained

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<v Speaker 1>whether that was why he was traded. That's the part

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<v Speaker 1>where Nick him's self is debunking it. Nick saying, give

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<v Speaker 1>me a break, and he was traded basically a month later.

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<v Speaker 1>He was like that. The season ends late May in

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<v Speaker 1>the conference finals with that sweep. A month later, he's

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<v Speaker 1>traded on Draft Night for the draft rights to one

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<v Speaker 1>Tehron Lou as well as Tony Batty. Why he was

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<v Speaker 1>traded then a month after one to three Cancun, It

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<v Speaker 1>would be easy to say it was because of one

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<v Speaker 1>to three Cancun. Nick says, no, that's not it. I

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<v Speaker 1>was traded in the middle of the season. I say,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you mean, you were traded in the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of the season, because obviously he wasn't literally traded in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of the season. He says he knew by

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of the season that he was gone, that

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<v Speaker 1>this was his last run with the Lakers for a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of different reasons, and the one that he sided

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<v Speaker 1>it was just that they had a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>camaraderie at the beginning of this run with this particular group,

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<v Speaker 1>but by mid season he felt like clicks were forming,

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<v Speaker 1>factions were forming, and they weren't really together anymore. And again,

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Jones and and Nick Van Exel had made the

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<v Speaker 1>All Star Team that season. Kobe had made the All

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<v Speaker 1>Star Game despite not even starting for his own team.

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<v Speaker 1>Shocked me. The All Star Game. Elden Campbell had been

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<v Speaker 1>a starting center and who was still capable of being

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<v Speaker 1>a starting center and a starting power forward next to Shack,

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<v Speaker 1>but when they didn't want to go with that alignment,

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<v Speaker 1>he had to go to the bench. So you've got

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<v Speaker 1>his feelings, You've got Nick van Exel, who's a primary

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<v Speaker 1>ball handler. There's just so many guys, and so it's

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<v Speaker 1>understandable and I think believable when Nick says there were

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<v Speaker 1>just other things going on, other things kind of in

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<v Speaker 1>the air that made him feel like I'm probably going

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<v Speaker 1>to get traded. And on top of all of that,

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<v Speaker 1>and not to be lost in all this, Nick Van

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<v Speaker 1>exellent Del Harris had very very publicly and privately clashed

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<v Speaker 1>repeatedly in their time together del Harris being the coach.

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<v Speaker 1>So we know for sure that Nick van Exel said one,

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<v Speaker 1>two three cancoon. But more than twenty years later a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of a fog and a controversy around whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not he was the lone sayer of this fraser

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<v Speaker 1>of other people joined in. On the one hand, we

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<v Speaker 1>have people saying, hey, Shock didn't like it, Shack went

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<v Speaker 1>to Jerry West. But all these years later you talked

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<v Speaker 1>to Shock and Shaq said, oh, I might have said

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<v Speaker 1>it too, and I wouldn't put all the blame on

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<v Speaker 1>Nick van Exel. And then Robert Ory said to you, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it was just Nick. So what's the deal here? Was

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<v Speaker 1>it just Nick? Or were there other co conspirators? There

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<v Speaker 1>were no co conspirators. There was no Grassy Knoll. There

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a Shaquille O'Neal on the Grassy Knoll. There were

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<v Speaker 1>no knolls that I know of, anywhere near the Great

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<v Speaker 1>Western Forum in Inglewood, California. Nick said this on his own.

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<v Speaker 1>And Nick will tell you that Robert Orry will tell

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<v Speaker 1>you that Shack has this um knack. We'll call it

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<v Speaker 1>for storytelling, embellishing. He did this a lot when I

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<v Speaker 1>was back on the Laker beat, and you could usually

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<v Speaker 1>tell when Shack was making something up out a whole cloth,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was funny because sometimes people would run with

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<v Speaker 1>those things. This was a case where I think Shack

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to get involved twenty four years later and

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not he's the cause of Nick being traded,

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<v Speaker 1>and so Shack says, just say we all said it.

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<v Speaker 1>Just say it was me, it was Eddie, was Nick?

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<v Speaker 1>Was Shack really? And then you know that's why I

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<v Speaker 1>follow up with Nick and Robert orry about it. No, Shack,

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<v Speaker 1>Shack's just being Shock, So no, no, but nobody else

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<v Speaker 1>said it. I think that Shock maybe is a little

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<v Speaker 1>sheepish now about whether or not he might have been

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<v Speaker 1>responsible for Nick getting traded. And again, based on my reporting,

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<v Speaker 1>I truly believe that even if this were a contributing

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<v Speaker 1>elements to Nick getting traded, it wasn't in the top

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<v Speaker 1>five of reasons why they would move on. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Kobe was gonna come up for a big contract eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie Jones was coming up on a big contract. Shock

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<v Speaker 1>of course, was already paid big. Like they had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of star caliber players who need to get paid,

0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.360
<v Speaker 1>who needed the ball, who needed to be featured, and

0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.080
<v Speaker 1>it was a natural progression and worth noting that less

0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 1>than a year later they also traded Eddie Jones and

0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.319
<v Speaker 1>Eldon Campbell, so there was a thinning out process that

0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.720
<v Speaker 1>they needed to do to create the team that ultimately

0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:48.800
<v Speaker 1>became a dynasty. Alright, So Nick Van Exel is the

0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 1>sole author of this incredible catchphrase that is two decades

0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.440
<v Speaker 1>plus being used by everybody. He could not have known

0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.920
<v Speaker 1>that it would blow up like this. What did he

0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:00.680
<v Speaker 1>make of it in the subsequent of years that it

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.880
<v Speaker 1>has endured this long? But the funny thing, John, is

0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.520
<v Speaker 1>that it kind of was I feel like in hibernation.

0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.199
<v Speaker 1>This happens in Nick gets traded. A couple of stories

0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.079
<v Speaker 1>are written the following season about Okay, he's now a

0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Denver nugget, how does he feel about his Lakers time,

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.959
<v Speaker 1>what does he think about the cancoon storyline, and whether

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.400
<v Speaker 1>that was the reason for his being traded? But then

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 1>it disappears like nobody ever writes about this, no one

0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:25.920
<v Speaker 1>talks about it, and no one says one to three

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>cancoon to my knowledge in all my years covering the

0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:33.439
<v Speaker 1>NBA until around sixteen, even t NT officials when I

0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 1>asked them weren't sure exactly when it kind of permeated

0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.560
<v Speaker 1>their presentations, but somewhere in sixteen range, for whatever reason,

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna say it's probably because of Shack They're doing

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 1>going fishing, and suddenly now it's one to three Cancun,

0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and then that kind of picks up steam. Other guys

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.880
<v Speaker 1>catch on. Now they're making cancoon references. And then the

0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 1>t NT graphics staff, that phenomenal, wonderful, incredibly talented and

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.439
<v Speaker 1>creative staff is now working cancoon to They're gone fishing graphics,

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and you know, the next thing, you know, a couple

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of years later, Alvin Gentry coaching the Pelicans at the

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 1>time they're getting eliminated, and he ends his press conference

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 1>with one to three Cancun. What does it want to? Three?

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Can code? Suddenly now it's a staple. So I think

0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.800
<v Speaker 1>for the first you know, fifteen sixteen years after it

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 1>was said in that huddle back at the forum, and

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 1>no one's using it, no one's saying it's not a

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.160
<v Speaker 1>reference point. And now suddenly, all these years later, it

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 1>is as much a part of the NBA post season

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>as anything else. Yeah, I love that it's become popular

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 1>in the lexicon. Again Van Excel told you that he

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 1>should have trademarked, and he should have. Does he like

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>that it's become popular? Yeah, it was funny. Nick and

0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Robert Ry both independently. Like rob before I talked to Nick, said, man,

0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 1>tell Nick he should have trademarked that thing, like pat

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Riley with three pete And then Nick said it on

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.360
<v Speaker 1>his own, unprompted. He's joking about it. I mean, he's

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 1>no one's worried about missing out on some sort of royalties.

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure one to three Cancun's, you know, generating

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 1>any big corporate sponsorships or anything. Although you know, frankly,

0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 1>I think he deserves at least some kind of kick

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 1>back from the tourism bureau in Cancoon, right, It's the

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>least they can do. Um. Nick likes it. Nick enjoys it.

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Nick thinks it's funny. I think he enjoys the fact that,

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>even if especially younger fans have no idea where this

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 1>catchphrase came from, I think he loves the fact that

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 1>it kind of originated with him. And it's not as

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>a negative thing, you know, because to him, that's not

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 1>the reason he got traded. It's not the reason that

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 1>his Lakers tenure ended. It was just a quick funny

0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.880
<v Speaker 1>line that he was throwing out, trying to lighten the mood,

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 1>because the mood, as he says, was pretty dour at

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 1>that time, as the mood tends to be when you're

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 1>down three oh in a playoff series in the NBA. Well,

0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 1>he has lightened the mood all these years later, We

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 1>thank him for We thank you for reading his excellent

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 1>piece about one to three Kankun a piece of NBA

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 1>lare on st dot com. Listen to him on the

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Crossover podcast. I don't know where he's going this offseason,

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 1>could be Camcoon, but he has earned a vacation. Howard

0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 1>back as always, thank you for this. Appreciate it. John,

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:10.320
<v Speaker 1>thank you, thanks for listening, and a reminder to please

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.800
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0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.760
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0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.560
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0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:55.640
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0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.320
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0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.120
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0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.760
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0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Connor and I was just talking to We had forty

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>on again yesterday. It's our un s and l fan

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 1>at the Five Timers Club. You guys are the only

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.240
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<v Speaker 1>We'll get you like a nice silk robe.