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Speaker 1: They're happy Wednesday, and welcome to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: check podcast. It is a Wednesday in an even numbered year,

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Speaker 1: which means we're the day after a Tuesday, which means

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Speaker 1: if it's Tuesday, somebody was voting somewhere the somewheres that

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Speaker 1: I that we should be paying attention to special election

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Speaker 1: to replace Marjorie Taylor Green, that it was an all

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Speaker 1: candidate jungle primary. That's why you see the Democratic candidate

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Speaker 1: looking like they did really well. There was a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of Republicans. This now goes to a runoff. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't hold my breath about Democrats there. They you know,

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Speaker 1: if they lose by single digits, it's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: This is still a very conservative district. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: I think I read one stat that even in those

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Speaker 1: big Public Service Commission races in November of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: I believe the Democratic candidate's still underperformed by some thirteen

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Speaker 1: points in this district. So it's a it is a

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Speaker 1: very conservative district, and it is it is going to be.

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Speaker 1: It is going to go to the Trump endorsed candidate.

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Speaker 1: But you know it again, to me, single bidgets would

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Speaker 1: be a big deal come the runoff, and it will

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Speaker 1: be a low turnout situation, So the likelihood of it

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Speaker 1: being closer than it should be is higher. There in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: we had no really major primaries. Bennie Thompson, the longtime

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Speaker 1: Democratic member of Congress there was challenged by someone younger

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Speaker 1: that was not its competitive, but not that close. He survives.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a little bit more to say about

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Speaker 1: the battle for the Senate because we had a big

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Speaker 1: a big change with the Montana News over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, my guest today as somebody I was

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Speaker 1: conducting an interview about an hour before the big Steve

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Speaker 1: Danes announcement. My guest today is John Adams. No, not

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Speaker 1: that John Adams. That John Adams has been dead a

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Speaker 1: very long time. This is not the second president of

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Speaker 1: the United States or the son of the second President

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Speaker 1: of the United States. Now, John Adams is the founder

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Speaker 1: and editor of the Ontana Free Press. More importantly, he

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Speaker 1: is the brainchild of something I've mentioned a few times

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Speaker 1: here and I'm going to continue to mention it between

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Speaker 1: now and April ninth. It is he is the ringleader

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Speaker 1: here to create Local News Awareness Day, and we have

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Speaker 1: scheduled it for April ninth. It's a Thursday, and between

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Speaker 1: now and then as a basically a partner, sponsor, whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call me here, as you knows, I

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Speaker 1: believe until rebuild local news, we will not rebuild trust

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Speaker 1: in all media period. I don't care who you are.

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Speaker 1: Our trust is built from the bottom up, which is

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Speaker 1: why I think we've got to rebuild local news. So

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Speaker 1: I am all in on Local News Awareness Day because

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Speaker 1: we know there are actually a lot of great entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: out there. We've got one here in Arlington County Arlington.

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Speaker 1: Now he's basically a one person operation, but there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of folks around the country that are trying to

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Speaker 1: fill in the app thanks to news deserts or terrible

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Speaker 1: ownership like Jeff Bezos who decided Washington didn't need local news.

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Speaker 1: There's all sorts of different ways that we got to

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Speaker 1: the situation that we got, But the point is is

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Speaker 1: that we're trying to raise awareness. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: local news startups out there, a lot of really good

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Speaker 1: journalistic entrepreneurs out there. So April ninth is a day

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Speaker 1: that we're hoping everybody pays a little bit more attention,

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Speaker 1: finds out whether it's in their original hometown, their current hometown,

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Speaker 1: where they've spent time, where they went to college, go

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Speaker 1: look and help surface and help promote the good local

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Speaker 1: news that we know is taking place. We just don't

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Speaker 1: have the resources to bring the attention to it that

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Speaker 1: we know that we should. So he's my feature and interview.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the state of local journalism, the business

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Speaker 1: of local journalism, the different models, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be featuring a different local news entrepreneur between now and

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Speaker 1: April ninth, at least once a week on this fee.

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Speaker 1: So it is I think we all can learn something

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Speaker 1: from each other about what works what doesn't. Is a

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Speaker 1: for profit model possible? Is that I'm a bit skeptical

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Speaker 1: of a long term nonprofit model. I think this has

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Speaker 1: to become a for profit model in some form or another.

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Speaker 1: But let's start with getting more attention and more focus

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Speaker 1: on the local new startups that exists. So again, I

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Speaker 1: guess it is John Adams. Anyway, the point is was Montana.

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Speaker 1: So at the end, and I just thought i'd share

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Speaker 1: this little editing nugget. We had to drop the last

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Speaker 1: three or four minutes of the interview because the day

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Speaker 1: I interviewed him was the day it was the last

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Speaker 1: day of the filing deadline in Montana. Now we didn't

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Speaker 1: think anything was changing beyond that day was the announcement

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Speaker 1: by former University of Montana president Seth Bodner that he

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Speaker 1: was going to run as an independent. And it's a

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Speaker 1: big deal. John Tester, former Democratic Senator, is endorsing the

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Speaker 1: independent over and above the Democrats that are running in

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Speaker 1: this race. And then at the last minute and he

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Speaker 1: was basically a few questions, how vulnerable could Steve Danes be?

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Speaker 1: And you know all of this, and then Danes pulls

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Speaker 1: that last second switcherou and it now puts Montana in place. Look,

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Speaker 1: our conversation was irrelevant. That's why we edited it out,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted you to know that I edited part

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Speaker 1: of a conversation. That's part of the transparency that I

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Speaker 1: believe in in what we're doing. And it will also

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Speaker 1: serve as like, how come you didn't talk Montana politics. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's why we didn't talk Montana politics. So after the interview,

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Speaker 1: I actually have a little bit of an update on

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Speaker 1: where I think Montana stands in the battle for the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Needless to say, it is in play. The question is

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Speaker 1: how in play is it. This is going to be

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Speaker 1: a complicated issue for the National Democratic Party because of

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Speaker 1: the of the strength potential strength of this independent candidate

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Speaker 1: in the former University of Montana military veteran Seth Bodner.

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Speaker 1: Also because it's Mississippi primary day, I decided. I told

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Speaker 1: you I've been sitting on some book research for years

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Speaker 1: that is about featuring and showcasing the all time greatest

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Speaker 1: campaigns in every state. Well, it's Mississippi Week, so I

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Speaker 1: thought I would reveal my top five all time campaigns

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Speaker 1: in Mississippi history. And it's got a bit of a twist.

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Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a history lesson and a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a showcase. And I think it shows

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Speaker 1: you how far where Mississippi was, where it has been,

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Speaker 1: where it's headed, and where it is now. But if

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Speaker 1: you're a political junkie, I think you'll enjoy it. And

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Speaker 1: as always, if you disagree with my order, let me

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Speaker 1: know what I missed. I'd love to this to me

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Speaker 1: is open source history lesson here on that stuff, then

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Speaker 1: of course I'll take some questions. But let's begin with

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Speaker 1: what is now consuming this presidency and what may devour

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Speaker 1: this presidency, and that is the war of choice. And

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Speaker 1: that's what this is, and this is what makes it

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Speaker 1: so precarious politically for Donald Trump, his war of choice

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Speaker 1: in Iran. We're more than a week into it, and

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Speaker 1: depending on which part of the administration you listen to,

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Speaker 1: this war is either going to end very quickly, extend

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Speaker 1: for quite some time, or evolve into something else entirely.

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Speaker 1: And that uncertainty alone would be enough to rattle markets

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Speaker 1: and policymakers. But boy, the first two days of this

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Speaker 1: week revealed something else that may be even more destabilizing,

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Speaker 1: a massive credibility problem, not just with allies, not just

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Speaker 1: with Congress, but with financial markets. We've now had two

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Speaker 1: days of trading since this war started this week right,

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Speaker 1: and both days the administration appeared to want to manage

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Speaker 1: or manipulate the markets. So on Monday, right, we had

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Speaker 1: this interesting glimpse of how this presidency is operating during

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Speaker 1: this crisis. Financial markets open the day already rattled by

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Speaker 1: the war. Oil prices surged amid fears that the conflict

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Speaker 1: was going to disrupt global supply. The White House quickly

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Speaker 1: moved to calm those fears. President Trump suggested, I called

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Speaker 1: up the CBS News correspondent, and he suggested to her

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Speaker 1: that the war might end sooner than expected. Remarks that did.

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Speaker 1: What By the way, he did this interview before the

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Speaker 1: markets closed at four pm Eastern time, and those remarks

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Speaker 1: helped ease market anxiety, pushed oil prices lower, pushed the

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Speaker 1: markets higher, And then hours later he speaks in front

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Speaker 1: of House Republicans, and what, by the way, what a

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Speaker 1: disastrous speech that was. If he's trying to rally the

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Speaker 1: troops or the midterms. I don't know if the troops

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Speaker 1: are going to go through a paper mache wall, let

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Speaker 1: alone one that is going to have bricks in it.

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Speaker 1: But I digress. By the evening, the President was warning

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Speaker 1: that the United States was prepared to escalate the conflict

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Speaker 1: and continue fighting until Iran was, in his words, totally

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Speaker 1: in decide defeated. Now it's possible he was reading from

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Speaker 1: an old speech script. Maybe his mind he was trying

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Speaker 1: to speed up the end of this thing, and then

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Speaker 1: he had prepared remarks for the House Republican retreat. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's the thing with this administration, right, Can you trust

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Speaker 1: anything they do? Can you at all trust what's coming

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Speaker 1: out of their mouth means something for more than an hour.

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Speaker 1: So in the same day on Monday, we got both

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Speaker 1: reassurance and ended with escalation. So markets in the morning,

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Speaker 1: military messaging in the evening. Is that what we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to take away from this? Not one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 1: it was really anything other than do whatever it took

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Speaker 1: to calm the markets down, and we'll worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: This feels like they are managing this by the day,

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Speaker 1: by the hour right, and we know the only guardrail

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Speaker 1: that moves Trump at all is the markets. He's been

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Speaker 1: unusually sensitive to market reactions, you know, care of day.

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Speaker 1: If he could pull undo the start of this war,

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Speaker 1: I think he already would have, just like he did

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Speaker 1: with his tariff on Liberation Day. But you can't unbomb

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Speaker 1: the country Kenya. So now it appears the presidency is

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Speaker 1: now chasing the markets. And this kind of rapid shift

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Speaker 1: suggests something important about how this administration is covering right now.

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Speaker 1: It looks a lot less like a carefully sequenced strategy

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Speaker 1: and more like a presidency that is operating by the

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Speaker 1: seat of their pants reaction instead of direction. It's just

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Speaker 1: what I said on Monday, Welcome to quicksand. This presidency

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Speaker 1: is getting devoured, ever so slowly by the quicksand of

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Speaker 1: this war in Iran. Every attempt to stabilize one part

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Speaker 1: of the situation creates risking instability somewhere else. That was Monday.

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Speaker 1: Then Tuesday, a social media post from the Secretary of

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Speaker 1: Energy briefly suggested that the US naval forces had successfully

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Speaker 1: escorted oil tankers through the Straight of Moves. Well, guess

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Speaker 1: what markets loved it. They reacted instantly. Oil prices plunged

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Speaker 1: in just a few minutes. In exchange traded fund tied

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Speaker 1: to oil futures lost roughly eighty four million dollars in

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Speaker 1: market value. Little manipulation of the markets. Huh. And then

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Speaker 1: the post was suddenly deleted. The explanation, all the caption

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Speaker 1: was wrong. A staffer may have done it. They want

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Speaker 1: to check that staffer's investment brokers account. By the way,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's true. Do you trust them? Credibility matters big

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Speaker 1: time at a time of war, and this administration has

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Speaker 1: burned through so much of its credibility with the average

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Speaker 1: American that you are going to see a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions about everything they do or say, because what they

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Speaker 1: say is not what they do, and what they do

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Speaker 1: is not what they say. This administration has spent years

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Speaker 1: eroding trust with institutions proactively. They go out of their

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Speaker 1: way to make sure you don't trust certain institutions. Look

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Speaker 1: what they've done to the FBI. They want the FBI

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Speaker 1: distrust it, they want the irs distrust it, and they've

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Speaker 1: done it. They've made allies question what we do? And

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Speaker 1: now the markets, what are they supposed to believe? So

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Speaker 1: when something like that happens, whether it was intentional accidental,

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Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt is gone. This is two

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Speaker 1: days in a row. Look, we always had the rule

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Speaker 1: of three for deciding something's a trend, so we've had two.

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Speaker 1: But let's just say we're all watching on Wednesday to

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Speaker 1: see are they going to play this game again? And

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Speaker 1: markets do assume the government is trying to move prices.

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Speaker 1: And it's a dangerous place when the global energy system

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Speaker 1: is already under pressure for more because eventually markets will

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Speaker 1: stop reacting to government reassurance. They will only react to reality,

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Speaker 1: and that's a scarier place to be. I've noticed Secretary

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Speaker 1: Treasury has been quite quiet. He normally loves to jump

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Speaker 1: in and play the game himself. Meanwhile, the reality of

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Speaker 1: the war is already becoming clear. This was amazing. During

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Speaker 1: their brief into Congress, we learned we had already heard

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Speaker 1: that the first week of the war was costing at

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Speaker 1: least six billion dollars worth of munitions. Well, apparently they

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Speaker 1: told Congress they burned through five point six billion dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of munitions in the first two days of fighting alone.

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Speaker 1: Two days. That's not a cost of the war, that's

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Speaker 1: just the cost of the ammunition. That doesn't count the

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Speaker 1: fighter jets that were lost to friendly fire, right, we

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Speaker 1: know that's millions and millions of dollars just the ammunition.

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Speaker 1: And now the Pentagon's reporting roughly one hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: American service members have been wounded, most with minor injuries.

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Speaker 1: But it is pretty clear what a RAN's up to.

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Speaker 1: Iran is borrowing a playbook that overmatched countries have used

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Speaker 1: with success in the past, whether it was what we

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Speaker 1: had to face in Vietnam, what Russia had to face

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, what the Taliban did to us in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: the insurgency that we dealt with in Iraq. This is

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Speaker 1: the asymmetrical part, the uncoordinated part of the Iranian Republican Guard.

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Speaker 1: This is why we are dealing now with an asymmetrical

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Speaker 1: fighting enemy, and that is a scary place to be.

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Speaker 1: Recent history tells us why. So meanwhile, the economy, So

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Speaker 1: you have rising oil prices which will impact inflation, a

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Speaker 1: potentially shrinking jobs market. Right, that was also happened last week,

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Speaker 1: and it has made the S word start to appear

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Speaker 1: stagflation fear because you've got oil prices, surging, shipping routes

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Speaker 1: to the golfer under pressure. That's going to screw with

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Speaker 1: the supply chain. We saw what that did during COVID.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have the same supply chain issues going

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Speaker 1: through the strait of home moves. Energy infrastructure across the

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Speaker 1: region has become a target. Even Pete Haig said that

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon was trying to push back on what the

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Speaker 1: Israelis have been doing and bombing too much of the

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Speaker 1: energy infrastructure. Aron's targeting energy infrastructure in Saudi Arabia, Ua

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Speaker 1: and Katar. They want to make this as painful as

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Speaker 1: possible in order to have our allies pressure the United

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Speaker 1: States and Israel to back off because of what they're

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Speaker 1: going to do to the global economy and if we

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Speaker 1: end up with stagflation rising prices combined with slowing economic growth.

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Speaker 1: As Austin Goulsby, he was president of Chicago FED one

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Speaker 1: time Obama economic advisor, he warned recently that when rising

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Speaker 1: unemployment collides with an oil shock, it creates the exact

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Speaker 1: kind of environment central banks fear the most. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to deal with. This is what life was like in

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Speaker 1: the seventies, and it sucked. Okay, my memories are sitting

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Speaker 1: in gas lines every other day, depending on if you're

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Speaker 1: an even number an odd number in your license plate,

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Speaker 1: and you had a weight in line to get if

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Speaker 1: it was your day for gas, and guess what, there

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Speaker 1: was always a line on that front. Yet the administrations

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Speaker 1: reporting exploring ways to bring gas prices down as they should. Right,

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Speaker 1: you've got to try to do something. Now, what they

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Speaker 1: may try to do may risk unintended consequences. They want

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Speaker 1: to intervene. Somebody has thrown out this is such a

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Speaker 1: classic Trump move. I know Trump hasn't put his fingerprints

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Speaker 1: on it yet, but this feels like him. He wants

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Speaker 1: to intervene in the oil futures markets, basically use US

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Speaker 1: treasuries to mess around with the futures markets to try

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Speaker 1: to drive down the price of oil. Let's just say

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Speaker 1: economists reacted with alarm. One. Analysts warned it could trigger

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Speaker 1: the mother of all short squeezes because the truth is simple.

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Speaker 1: The Federal Reserve can print reserves. They can print money, right,

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Speaker 1: and the Treasury can print money. Neither one of them

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Speaker 1: can print oil. And if they try to use that

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Speaker 1: money to manipulate the markets, oh my, this episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck toodcast is brought to you by Quints. A

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Speaker 1: Chuck Toodcast is brought to you by American Financing. So

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Speaker 1: if you looked at your credit card statement lately, you're

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Speaker 1: Slash the Chuck todcast use that code. Now. Democrats better

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Speaker 1: be careful of something here right now because of the

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Speaker 1: current shutdown involving TSA agents, right, especially as the war

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Speaker 1: sort of consumes Remember the underlying issue that was driving

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Speaker 1: the initial shutdown of the partial shutdown of DHS in

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Speaker 1: the first place. Right, So, while we have all these

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Speaker 1: unfolding events overseas and in global markets, we are still

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Speaker 1: sitting with this partial shutdown of DHS. TSA agents are

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Speaker 1: now facing the possibility of missing their second paycheck this week.

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Speaker 1: I have flown this week. TSA agents are getting kind

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Speaker 1: of grumpy. All of fellow travelers couldn't have been, you

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Speaker 1: could hear it. Everybody's been extra nice, hanging there. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming to work, That's what I said. That's what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people said. But they're not getting paid.

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Speaker 1: We've got spring break. Travel is just starting to kick in.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be one of those things where

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Speaker 1: public inconvenience is not going to care about the political

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Speaker 1: reasons why we're in the situation that we're in. So

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Speaker 1: Democrats have had leverage in this fight, right the unpopularity

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Speaker 1: of immigration enforcement of DHS. But Christi Numb's been fired.

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Speaker 1: There's kind of a focus on a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: other stuff. So in some ways, when do Democrats declare

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Speaker 1: victory on this, they got Numb fired, They're going to

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Speaker 1: get some changes. They're probably going to get mull into

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Speaker 1: at least agree to some things. That is confirmation here.

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Speaker 1: This is just like that last shutdown. They've made their point,

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Speaker 1: they got some action. They certainly have the public confirmation

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Speaker 1: by the administration to the American public that all was

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Speaker 1: not right with the HS. They better be careful here

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Speaker 1: right right now. They don't want to do it. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those classic cases when you're just

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Speaker 1: just look at the politics of the situation. The party

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Speaker 1: you're running against is just imploding on itself. This war

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Speaker 1: with Iran is going to be a weight around the

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Speaker 1: ankle of every Republican running in twenty twenty six. So

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Speaker 1: this is a classic case where get out of the way,

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Speaker 1: don't offer up your opponent a life flying and sticking

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Speaker 1: to their guns too long on this partial shutdown, which

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Speaker 1: is doesn't deal directly with the part of DHS they

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Speaker 1: want to be dealing with that's already been funded. You're

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Speaker 1: punishing the flying public, you're punishing college kits, you're punishing

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Speaker 1: families wanting to go visit Grandma and grandpa or Easter

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Speaker 1: in passover. So I think their calculation needs to shift

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Speaker 1: here sooner rather than later, because this is one of

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Speaker 1: those again, when the public is inconvenience, politics doesn't become

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Speaker 1: very clean anymore. And if airline airport lines starts stretching

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Speaker 1: two or three hours during the spring break travel season,

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Speaker 1: people who normally ignore the Washington mess start paying attention.

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Speaker 1: So it's this is a Democrat forced shutdown of DHS.

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Speaker 1: And you know there can point finger point all this

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Speaker 1: and back and forth, but they ought to be a

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Speaker 1: bit aware of this and ask themselves do they want

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Speaker 1: to get in the way of right now is a

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Speaker 1: never ending set of negative headlines impacting elected Republicans. But

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Speaker 1: let's go back to Iran a minute, because the bigger challenges.

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Speaker 1: I do think if he could undo this, see what

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Speaker 1: this is not going well? And there's because the problem

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Speaker 1: is the enemy always gets to say and Iran is not.

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Speaker 1: This idea that he was going to pull a Venezuela

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Speaker 1: is clearly what he thought and now that ain't gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this commane son. Are we going to

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Speaker 1: see him? Is he alive? Is he in the hospital?

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Speaker 1: Was he is? He just sort of up up front

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Speaker 1: for the Republican guard here? What's going on? Do we

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Speaker 1: need this? Is there? Think if the Iranian regime wants

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Speaker 1: some credibility still, they probably need to have some proof

430
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: of life here on the Kamani Sun. It is interesting

431
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: that he's been named the third leader of Iran since

432
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: the Islamic Revolution in seventy nine. Well we've not seen

433
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: or heard from him. Just something to keep in mind.

434
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: But that gets us back to how does this end?

435
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: What does victory look like? President has offered several versions.

436
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: Oran must surrender. I don't think they're going to do

437
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: that anytime soon. Ran must be rendered militarily useless. Well,

438
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: how much do you bomb Tehran? How much infrastructure do

439
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: you get rid of. The more infrastructure you get rid of,

440
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: the more we're going to have to pay to rebuild.

441
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: And this idea that we're not going to pay to

442
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: rebuild a country we've bombed, it's pretty un American of us.

443
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: We rebuilt Japan, we rebuilt Germany. This is what we do.

444
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: This is how we keep credibility in the world as

445
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: leader of the free world. Maybe this is not the

446
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: way Donald Trump thinks, but it will be a stain

447
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: on America if we're not involved in this. Now. He's

448
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: also said Iran must be totally defeated. What does that

449
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: look like? They're powerful phrases, but they're not strategies. Regional

450
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: officials people in Turkey are warning that Iran and its

451
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: allies have enough drones and missiles to sustain months of fighting.

452
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. The Iranians have a lower level

453
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: of what victory looks like for them. The regime surviving

454
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: is victory, so we could pummel them to death. This

455
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: is like a bad version of ropodope, right. If they're

456
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: still in power despite Holy hell terror that has been

457
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: dropped upon them by the US military, in the Israeli military,

458
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: and the regime is still in power. That becomes a

459
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: symbolic victory against in a way that that that that

460
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: is hard. I don't think we fully appreciate. It's like

461
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: what happened with US in Vietnam and with the Russians

462
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, is Donald Trump can he handle months

463
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: of this? Even the Iranians just surviving months will do

464
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: huge We'll have a huge negative impact on the global economy,

465
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: gigantic impact on the global economy which will hit us.

466
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: Does it cause a recession? Right? If we're in this

467
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: four months. The problem he's got is he doesn't want

468
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: to send in any ground troops and the and the

469
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: reality is if you talk to military leaders, are going

470
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: to tell you you're not gonna be able to resolve this

471
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: situation in the way he wants to resolve it, probably

472
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: without putting in troops on the ground. And yet you

473
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: want to talk about a catastrup probably the point where

474
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: he would lose many Republicans on the that are elected

475
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: office against something like that. So they don't want to

476
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: risk that. But that's the problem when you start a

477
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: war where you automatically box yourself in on things you

478
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: won't do well, then you limit your ability to actually

479
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: win the thing. This is why there were so many

480
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: people trying to pull him back, including the Chairman of

481
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: the Joint Chiefs. Let's not forget he was doing everything

482
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: he could to make sure they were. Are you sure

483
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: you want to do this, because it wasn't going to

484
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: be clear how this was going to end, especially since

485
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: we worked did not work. There was no coordination with,

486
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: there was no opposition to coordinate with, and what opposition

487
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: there was might have been killed by the regime during

488
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: the protests. So this fantasy that Trump had that this

489
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: was going to be he could find his Delci Rodriguez

490
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: is Iatola Rodriguez, is just that fantasy. Do you want

491
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: to point out a few other things, probably the surreal

492
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: moment of the week, the old Russians and Witkoff and

493
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: this sort of clown show that is, these negotiators that

494
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: all are doing business with these Middle Eastern countries and

495
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: then magically are somehow the negotiators here right. Well, President

496
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: Trump had a phone call with Vladimir Putin this week,

497
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: and according to the Kremlin, Putin offered several proposals to

498
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: help end the war with Iran, and at the same time,

499
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: apparently one of Trump's envoys, this is Steve Whitcoff. He

500
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: was asked on television whether Russia might be sharing intelligence

501
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: with Iran and he said, well, they reassured us, and

502
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: Putin reassured him in the call with Trump that they weren't.

503
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: And Witkoff said, with a straight faced to a CNBC anchor,

504
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: we can take them at their word. So again, this

505
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: is the same guy would not take the Iranians at

506
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: their word, but we'll take the Russians at their word.

507
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: If your strategy depends on taking Vladimir Putin at his word,

508
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: you may not have much of a strategy. So, yes,

509
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: the Iranians may be getting intelligence helped from the Russians.

510
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: There's no doubt the Russians want. The best thing to

511
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: happen to Russian this war with Ukraine is for the

512
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: United States to be using up munitions that we're going

513
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: to get rerouted to Ukraine and instead we're using them

514
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: up and it starves Ukraine of resources. So of course

515
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: Putin's going to play all sides of this thing. Of

516
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: course He's going to do what he can to help

517
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: Iran extend this war and keep the United States distracted

518
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: from helping Ukraine, even though he already has a presidential

519
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: leader who has little interest in helping Ukraine. But you

520
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: do have a majority of the US government that actually

521
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: does want to help Ukraine. Finally, there was a story

522
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: this week that's getting a little bit overshadowed, but it

523
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: really erose whatever credit. You know, Donald Trump was trying

524
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: to always be this idea that he was going to

525
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: get big government and big tech and big business and

526
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: he was going to be pretty tough on them, and

527
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: he was going to have a strong antitrust regime, and

528
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: certainly JD. Vance whose credibility right, This was the guy

529
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: that said no, there will be no new wars under

530
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: a Donald Trump. And then he was the one that

531
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: said he loved Lena Khan and there was going to

532
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: be some really tough anti trust investigations of certain companies. Well,

533
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: guess what. The Justice Department abruptly reaches a settlement with

534
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: Live Nation, the parent company of Ticketmaster, in the middle

535
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: of its anti trust trial. Just a year ago, the

536
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 1: government was trying to break up the company for what

537
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: for operating and what many believe was an illegal monopoly

538
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: when it came to live events and concerts, and then

539
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: suddenly a deal. There's no breakup, just a handful of

540
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: modest restrictions. Even the federal judge overseeing the case expressed

541
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: anger at how this settlement appeared without warning. He didn't

542
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: know they were still in talks. Well, guess what happened.

543
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: We know you the fact that we have reporting confirming this.

544
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: You didn't even know that you knew exactly what happened.

545
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: Live Nation lobbyists went directly to senior Trump officials. They

546
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: bypassed Justice Department lawyers because in this case it doesn't

547
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: look like the Justice Department was interested in settling. Nope,

548
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: they went ahead and did a deal behind the back

549
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: of the Justice Department. They stepped in to protect a

550
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: ticketing monopoly that millions of Americans complain about every time

551
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: they try to buy a concert ticket. This is another

552
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: one of these things, just like he did to the

553
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: MAHA people, right and signing that pesticide executive order allowing

554
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: that pesticide in. He talks a big game unpopulism, and

555
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: when push comes to shove, if a lobbyist gets his

556
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: ear and more than just his ear and it comes

557
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: with some sort of financial contribution attached and whatever slush

558
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: fund he wants it contributed to. But we see that

559
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: this is a absolute pattern. Right, Monsanto had never given money.

560
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: They gave a million dollars. They get this executive order. Right.

561
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: We've seen it with the crypto guys. We've seen it

562
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: with the Pardons. Now you've got this live nation thing.

563
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: I think it under mines. You know, we have some

564
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: interesting new polling from my friends at NBC News and

565
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: they mostly it was mostly on the on the Iraq

566
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: war and Iraq war oops, Iran war. I don't know

567
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: how many times I'm gonna Freudian slip that one. But

568
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: what's interesting in some of the studies they've done is

569
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: there is this group of hard independence. It's about thirteen

570
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: to fifteen percent of the electorate. They're mostly young men,

571
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: not college educated, pretty diverse group of men. This is

572
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: not white men. I mean there's a chunk of white

573
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: men in it, but it's pretty diverse between white men,

574
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 1: black men, and Hispanic men, mostly younger, sort of under fifty.

575
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: And these were the deciders, right, they went with Trump

576
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: in twenty four and it's these policies that they don't like. Right,

577
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: they're skeptical of corporations, but they're skeptical of the cultural

578
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: progressivism of the left too. But Trump continues to sort

579
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: of let them down, or at least remind them that

580
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: he's not on their side. He may say things that

581
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: sound like he's on their side, but his actions always

582
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: put him on the side of the biggest donor or

583
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: the wealthiest person that gets into the room. A few

584
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: notes on the polling about Iran, and I thought i'd

585
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: leave that and then I'm gonna we'll get to my

586
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: interview with John Adams. What's interesting here in this new

587
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: NBC News poll is that the numbers no matter how

588
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: you ask the question whether you do you think the

589
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: United States should have or should not have taken military

590
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: action against Iran, forty one percent say the US should have,

591
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: fifty two percent they should not. Then, when you ask

592
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: the question do you approve or disapprove of President Trump's

593
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: handling of the situation Iran, forty one percent approve, fifty

594
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: four percent disapproved. So basically you're looking at identical numbers.

595
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be worthy to note which groups is

596
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: it is the is the should have versus should not.

597
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: If they should have ahead of the should not have.

598
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: Here's where should have bombed Iran is ahead of the

599
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: should not have bond Iran among voters fifty to sixty four.

600
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: That's Gen X, that is in young baby boomers, that

601
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: continues to always be the strongest supporting group of Donald

602
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: Trump and MAGA. Yes it is. I'm self aware that

603
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: this is my generation White voters narrowly forty seven forty six,

604
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: and of course self describe Republicans seventy seven fifteen. But

605
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: it's under eighty. As I told you, you know, eighty

606
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: is a big deal. What is interesting This goes to

607
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: the same thing I think I told you I hinted

608
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: about this. Those that say they're a part of MAGA

609
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: more than they are the GOP. They are more supportive

610
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: of these strikes. Right, MAGA influencers are pretty against this

611
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: decision to strike Iran. But the rank and file, if

612
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: Trump says this is what should be those that say

613
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: there are more of a MAGA supporter than Republican are

614
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: right there with Trump on whatever he says. What's interesting

615
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: And according to the NBC News data, and frankly, this

616
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: is the other polling I've seen Republicans who do not

617
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: call themselves supporters of the MAGA movement are much more

618
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: skeptical about this Iran decision. Just fifty four percent support

619
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: say the United States should have bombed Run. It's still

620
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: a majority, but it's ninety percent among those that call

621
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: themselves MAGA Republicans, and it's only fifty four percent among

622
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: those that don't. So it is, as you can see,

623
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: it's barely It's basically the core parts of the MAGA

624
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: Trump coalition are the only ones that even have a

625
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: bare majority supporting what he's doing. I mean it is that.

626
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: That's what you learn from this polling. And that's on

627
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: the again. This poll was done after the best news

628
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: of this war had hit the voters, which was the

629
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: death of the Ayatola. What new information is going to

630
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: make this better? I said, ask that question on Monday.

631
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask that question again, all right, So

632
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: there you go. We will watch all day when I say,

633
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: and find out what does the administration try to do

634
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 1: to mess with the markets, to try to calm the markets,

635
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: and how are they going to get themselves so entangled

636
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: in this that they end up erasing whatever credibility they

637
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: still had with the financial industry. We shall see, all right,

638
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: let's sneak at a break when we come back, a

639
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: great conversation about the future of local news with my friend,

640
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: the founder and editor of the month and a free press,

641
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: John Adams. Do you hate hangovers? We'll say goodbye to hangovers.

642
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: Out of Office gives you the social buzz without the

643
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,880
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696
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: my next guest and to announce a new thing I'm

697
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: involved with. I've dropped some hints about it earlier on

698
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: earlier podcast, but I am a participant. I'm on a

699
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: steering committee. I am here at Rabble Rouser whatever you

700
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: want to call me to promote a local news day.

701
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: And the idea of Local news Day, which is April ninth,

702
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: is essentially it's an awareness day. You know learned the

703
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: whole premise of Earth Day way back when it first

704
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: started in the early seventies, which is, you know, take

705
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 1: a day to think about you know, your your role

706
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: in the environment and things like that. Well, with Local

707
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: News Day, this is look our information ecosystem, You've heard

708
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: me talk about it. Why am I even here as

709
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: an independent operator these days? Right? The information ecosystem as

710
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: fragmented in a in a huge way. The revenue streams

711
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: for news organizations have dramatically shrunk and changed. As I

712
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: often joke, a man named Craig decided Classified Z ought

713
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: to be free, YadA, YadA, YadA. We ended up with

714
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: suddenly no local news organizations in half the country. But

715
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: the but as much as that seems like there's been

716
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: bad news, there's been an incredible right. You know, I

717
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: always say politics of worts a vacuum. Well, the information

718
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: ecosystem of whores of vacuum, and where people live, people

719
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: want to know what the hell's going on. As I

720
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: always say, look at you, look at social media. How

721
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,479
Speaker 1: do you know that we all like local news because

722
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: we think whatever's happening around us is important enough to

723
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: share with the world. Well, hey, that's local news. Well

724
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: that's the purpose of Local News Day in April ninth,

725
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: get people more aware of people working in their own communities.

726
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: Already trying to rebuild what was an important part of

727
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: frankly civic life for so many Americans over the last

728
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,439
Speaker 1: two hundred years. If you want to go and read

729
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: Democracy in America by Detokeful, one of the things that

730
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: he will he remarked upon when he toured America to

731
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: try to understand what made this democracy work, he was

732
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: incredibly blown away by how engaged Americans were locally. Well

733
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: that was thanks to what was an incredible local media

734
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: that we had in the nineteenth century. Well, we're all

735
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: trying to rebuild the information ecosystem, and we know trust

736
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: is built from the bottom up. Well, somebody had to

737
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: come up with the idea of doing this, and that's

738
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: who my next guest is. It's the founder an editor

739
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 1: of the Montana Free Press. It's John Adams and those

740
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: of us that cover the issue of campaign finance. I

741
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: was involved in the Meet the Press film festival back

742
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: in the day and one of the films we featured

743
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: had a starring role for John Adams, and it's how

744
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: I first got to know him. So, John Adams, welcome

745
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: to the podcast.

746
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks so much, Chuck, and thanks for being a

747
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: part of this effort, and thanks for having me on

748
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: the show.

749
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: Well let me start with look I put it in

750
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: my words, how'd I do fill in the gaps? Tell

751
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: me what? Tell me what your elevator pitch is when

752
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: you tell people about local News Day on April ninth,

753
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: Mark R. Kelliler.

754
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well my hope, Chuck is in one of

755
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: these days I can get you to, you know, say,

756
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: if it's April ninth, it's local news Day.

757
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: There it is. I love it. If it's April ninth,

758
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: it's local Newsday, absolutely, but in all seriousness, I mean

759
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: it is it is. I know what you expressed it

760
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: was sort of when I think we last saw each

761
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: other at the Texas Tribute Festival, and you know, it's

762
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: all about how how can we take what is There

763
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: are a ton of incredible entrepreneurs around the country. There's

764
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: a lot of incredible people attempting to try to fill

765
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: the void in places like Montana or frankly now where

766
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: I live here in Washington, d C. Where we've become

767
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: a local news desert. And I wish I were being facetious.

768
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: I'm not. It's a it's a serious issue. And this

769
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: was one way you thought, well, how do you begin

770
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: to build a network of local news entrepreneurs. Let's start

771
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: with a shared day of awareness.

772
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think it's you talked about

773
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: the fact that there's been this crisis in local news

774
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: and obviously anybody who's paid attention in the last ten

775
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 2: or fifteen years, that's that's that's an old narrative, right,

776
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: we know that that's been the case for a really

777
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: long time. That's not news. But I think you know,

778
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: the idea for Local News Day is that there's actually

779
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: so much going on on sort of the revival of

780
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 2: this you know, critically important civic institution, which is your

781
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: local news organizations. And you know, this Local News Day

782
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: is really about helping Americans know where they can find

783
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: that those sources of information where they live. You know,

784
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: we are as we've lost sources of local news, our

785
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: attention goes elsewhere. People are curious, people want to stay informed,

786
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: people want to be you know, in the know on things.

787
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 2: And we all carry around these incredibly powerful supercomputers in

788
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: our pockets that are that are radically connected to the

789
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 2: entire world, and so we can find out what's happening

790
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: in in you know, Israel or Iran within minutes of

791
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: it happening. But in terms of you know, what happened

792
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: to you know, why is that street closed three blocks

793
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: from my house? You may wait days to find the

794
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 2: answer to that, and you might have to find it

795
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: out on social media. You might have to find it

796
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: out by asking your neighbors. And you know, in a

797
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: lot of communities, they kind.

798
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: Of left.

799
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: Their attention which was you know, often started their day

800
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 2: on their doorstep, right a paper delivered to their door.

801
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: You wake up, you drink the coffee, you unroll the paper,

802
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: you read the headlines, you you swear at the opinion

803
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: page then you check the local sports box scores for

804
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: the basketball game that happened the night before, what have you.

805
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: And then you end your day watching the evening newscast

806
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: and knowing what's going on. Sure that you might tune

807
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: in for the national news, but then you stick around

808
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: to find out about what's going on with the weather,

809
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 2: what's going on in your community. And you know, a

810
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 2: lot of those traditional sources of information didn't adapt very

811
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: efficiently to the information environment that we're currently in. But

812
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 2: there's a lot of us who understood, you know, saw

813
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: that that that reality kind of taking shape and kind

814
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 2: of hit the ground trying to figure out what the

815
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: next phase of this was. The need for local news

816
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: has never gone away. The appetite for local news has

817
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: never dissipated. It's just that, you know, the business model

818
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: that had supported it for so long had kind of

819
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: failed in our current information environment. And so what this

820
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: is all about is saying, like, look, people are reinventing

821
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 2: the business model. There are successful local news organizations all

822
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 2: over the country, for profit, nonprofit, independence creators, you know,

823
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 2: people who are committed to finding out the facts about

824
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: what's going on in their community and sharing it with

825
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 2: with as broad of an audience of local folks as

826
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: they can, and there this campaign Local News Day is

827
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: really about highlighting, uplifting, celebrating, and connecting the public with

828
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: those sources of local news that they may not even

829
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 2: know exist.

830
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: You know, it's I think we've I feel like we

831
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 1: kind of sort of joked about this in one of

832
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: the steering committees, but you know it, you know, local

833
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: news now kind of feels like theft the craft beer,

834
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, boom, and I hope that and I think

835
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: what we all figured out is, huh, we don't want

836
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: three national beers Cores, Miller, and Budweiser. Right as soon

837
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: as it became that, people suddenly said, wait a minute,

838
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, I know it seems like

839
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: a weird but but now there's truth to this. Right,

840
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: every town you go to now has their own beer.

841
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: And we see this as, oh, isn't that great. You know,

842
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: there's a local flavor, or there's a local this, and

843
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: there's a local that. But in some ways it was

844
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: because we didn't like the whole commoditized aspect of this.

845
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: Right yet, the big companies scale was everything right there,

846
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 1: There's less money to be made if you somehow made

847
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty different kinds of of of of recipes

848
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: of beer. And I think that's what hurt local news

849
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: is it tried to sort of participate in the scale

850
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: economy when actually it was just antithetical to scale and

851
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: then ended up being a mistake. But I sort of

852
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: now I look at it and it's like, yeah, local

853
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: news looks different. Craft beer is different. Sometimes, Oh you

854
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: put a lot of fruit in yours, or oh your

855
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: local news is based on just this one neighborhood association,

856
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, and yet different. You know it, if you're

857
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: serving a community, then then you're doing a good version

858
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: of local news, right, And maybe I'm butchering it a

859
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: little bit, but the craft beer boomlet tells me that,

860
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, actually people do care about their local identities.

861
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: You know.

862
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: I think I think you're really onto something there, and

863
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: I could take that a lot further actually, because you know,

864
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, Chuck, but I

865
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: was also for a period of time the correspondent for

866
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: the Rocky Mountain Brewing News, So you know, I.

867
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: Did not know that one that was not a that

868
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: was not a feeder question.

869
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's not on my resume, I should put

870
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: it on there. But you know, it's really that's a

871
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: great metaphor because you know what local breweries are, you know,

872
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: I'll take Montana for example, which I know well, you know,

873
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: they're public houses. It's not just that people go there

874
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 2: for the unique flavor, right they also go there for community.

875
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: They go there for connection. And I think that's one

876
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: of those things that local news really has the power

877
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 2: to do, which is connect people like you can have

878
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: disagreements and whatnot, but you're disagreeing at least around the

879
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: same set of facts about what you read in your

880
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: your local paper, heard on your local newscasts, or saw

881
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: on your local you know, your local evening newscasts, and

882
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: so you know, and like those those local beers, you know.

883
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 2: I think what we have found it has been so

884
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: successful in you know, particularly what I've experienced mostly in

885
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: the last ten years in the nonprofit news space, is

886
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: there isn't a one size fits all business model or

887
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 2: editorial strategy or solution to the local news challenge. The

888
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: organizations that we're seeing that are having so much success

889
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: are you know, entities that really know their community. They

890
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: know what their community, you know, is looking for what's

891
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: the gap, you know, what what is the information that

892
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: people most need or most want, And so you know,

893
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: they're they're so tied in with what is happening. They're

894
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: part of the community that they build trust, They're reflecting

895
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: the flavor of the community in many ways, like you

896
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 2: you can sense the familiarity because you recognize the people,

897
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: you recognize the voices, you you recognize, you know, the

898
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 2: issues that are happening around you, and you know, like

899
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: you know, you know, a lot of craft breweries will

900
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 2: you know, the water that they have access to is

901
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: part of what makes their beer special. You know, the

902
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: makeup of the water is a big deal. You know,

903
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: people use local barley, local malt, local hops. You know,

904
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: maybe if you're in certain parts of the country like Montana,

905
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,479
Speaker 2: you might add a huckleberry beer to your mix during

906
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 2: huckleberry season. And you know, these are all things that

907
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 2: people see kind of reflected. They see their lived experience,

908
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 2: their world reflected in this thing, and that's something that

909
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: they feel an attachment to. And I think that is

910
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: what we're trying to do with Local News Day is

911
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 2: sort of recreate that same kind of connection, that same

912
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 2: kind of attachment with the information about what's happening around

913
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 2: them and empowering people.

914
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: I like, look, let's talk about your origin story a

915
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: little bit with the Montana Free Press. I mean when

916
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: you were telling me pieces of it because we have

917
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: a mutual friend, Phil Kent, who was a longtime executive

918
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: at the in the early days with Ted Turner at CNN,

919
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: and I serve with Phil Kent on a board at

920
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: GW for the School of Media and Public of Faith.

921
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: And you tell this great story where he saw the

922
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: documentary that you were in. Let's talk about the documentary

923
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: is a documentary about dark money and Montana's you know,

924
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: sort of the and this was a story about how

925
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: there was a bipartisan effort to try to you know,

926
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: Montana is different, right, the whole fight against the copper,

927
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: against the longtime copper barons. I guess you might call

928
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: them really sort of create you know, there really is

929
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: a legacy of you know, skepticism of outside money, skepticism

930
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: of outsideer, whether you're left or right. You know, it

931
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: sort of explains why Montana politicians in general are not

932
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: cookie cutter, right, no matter which side of the ise

933
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: they send. You're like, now, a Montana Republican is not

934
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: like a regular Republican, and a Montana Democrat is not

935
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: like a national Democrat. They're just there. And because there

936
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: is a Montana identity that is distinctive, that goes all

937
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: the way back, frankly to it to its sort of

938
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: early days as a state. And you were sort of

939
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: the featured reporter in this documentary. But but but tell

940
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: me about the dock and then what happened to your

941
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: career in the middle of the dock.

942
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean it's one of those situations that

943
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't really have any idea what I

944
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: was getting into when Kimberly read the documentary, filmmaker reached

945
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 2: out to me. Kimberlys a helen and native born and

946
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 2: raised here in Montana. And you know, interestingly Dark Money

947
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: is you know, it was a national documentary. It publish,

948
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: you know, it was it was It aired on PBS

949
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: stations all over the country at a big, natural, national

950
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 2: theatrical release, and certainly the audience for it is a

951
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 2: national audience, but it really is local reporting in a

952
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 2: large part. It's it's it's one of those stories. It's

953
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 2: sort of kind of drives home, how you know, the

954
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: powers and the influence of uh, you know, at the

955
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 2: national level can really impact you know, low communities and

956
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: local public policy. And that's what dark money was about.

957
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: And I was a reporter for the Great False Tribune.

958
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: I was the Capital bureau chief for the Great False Tribune,

959
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 2: which was you know, at the time, if not the most,

960
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: definitely one of the most prominent and widely read newspapers

961
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 2: that was Gannett. It was the only Gannett owned property

962
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 2: in Montana still is Lee Newspapers. Leave sort of famously

963
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: liberated five of the largest state dailies from the Copper Collar,

964
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 2: which was ownership by the Anacona Company, which you know,

965
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: alludes back to that history you talked about with the

966
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: copper barons, and you know, that one hundred year old

967
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: history of corruption and big money interest trying to buy

968
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 2: our politics at the local, you know, the legislative level

969
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 2: and on up. Is a fight that we've been just

970
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 2: steeped in here in Montana forever. And in nineteen seventy two,

971
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: Montana's got together and called a constitutional convention. We just

972
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: celebrated the fiftieth anniversary a couple of years ago. The

973
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 2: passage of the of the New constitution. But that new

974
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 2: constitution was really aimed at limiting the role of outside

975
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 2: corporate influence in our politics. It had strict limits on

976
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 2: campaign finance. And what we saw in twenty thirteen, twenty

977
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: fifteen and beyond was, you know, we had my reporting

978
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 2: had started to reveal like how this dark money was

979
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: really infiltrating these these local legislative elections, primarily super local.

980
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: It was a stunning discoveries. You're just like, wait a minute,

981
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: this company's doing what in what little state praise? You know?

982
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean candidates were coming out of nowhere and

983
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: just getting enormous support through you know, mostly through postcards. Right,

984
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 2: so people's inboxes just filling up with these campaign mailers

985
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: with some really heinous message and allegation, sometimes just a

986
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 2: week before the election, right just a few days before

987
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: the election. So the person on the other side of

988
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: that attack didn't even have a chance to respond. You

989
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: didn't know who the attacks were coming from, and you

990
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 2: didn't have an opportunity to respond. And it turned out,

991
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: and the documentary kind of really spells all this out,

992
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: but it turned out that there was a kind of

993
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: a group that was orchestrating all of this on behalf

994
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: of candidates and in some cases illegally coordinating with those

995
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 2: candidates campaign. So they weren't disclosing they were providing very

996
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: valuable political resources to a campaign, very valuable you know,

997
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: attacks and other services. But there was weren't being disclosed.

998
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 2: And so we, you know, those of us who like

999
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: to spend time digging around in files in the basement

1000
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 2: of the Commission of Political Practices office, we couldn't see

1001
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 2: who Like this was totally undisclosed money. We didn't know

1002
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: how much they were spending. We didn't know who was

1003
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: sp I mean it, We didn't know, you know, whether

1004
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: or not these candidates were, you know, directly involved with it.

1005
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: Fast forward a few years, there was a series of

1006
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: trials that aimed to bring some of these elected officials

1007
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: to account for this illegal coordination. And during that period

1008
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 2: of time, I had also been laid off at the

1009
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: Great False Tribune, and so I followed this story as

1010
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: a political reporter for the state, one of the state's

1011
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 2: largest dailies. And then I found myself without a job

1012
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: in the middle of the twenty fifteen legislative session, and

1013
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: that was what sort of gave birth to the idea

1014
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: of Montana Free Press because I looked around the state

1015
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: at you know, where could I continue to do this

1016
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: kind of brand of journalism, And I didn't really see

1017
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 2: any viable options. You know, I saw a continued decline

1018
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: of the print newspapers that were still you know active

1019
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:56,479
Speaker 2: in the state.

1020
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: How many how many quote reporters were you can be

1021
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: against in the Capitol Press corps.

1022
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: Well at the time, you know what, by the time

1023
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: I left, it was, I know, there was you know,

1024
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: a handful of TV reporters that would kind of cycle through.

1025
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: Usually they weren't there for more than just a session

1026
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 2: or two. Yeah, and then Montana's a very small media market,

1027
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: so any of the good TV reporters immediate as soon

1028
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: as their contract was up, went to a bigger market.

1029
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: So you didn't have a lot of except for our

1030
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: friend Mariza.

1031
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: Except for our friend Mariza exactly. She's she's one of

1032
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 2: the exceptions for sure. So you know, there was two

1033
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: sort of legendary longtime state state House reporters, Chuck Johnson

1034
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,919
Speaker 2: and Mike Dennison, who were anchored the lead newspapers bureau.

1035
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: And those are the guys who I really kind of

1036
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 2: looked at as my competition. Chuck had been doing it

1037
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: for at that point, you know, probably close to forty years.

1038
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: I'd followed a Mike and Chuck's footsteps in both the

1039
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: Great Falls Tribune and then they went on to the

1040
01:01:54,960 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 2: lead Bureau. And so we were friendly competitors, you know,

1041
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: much as I'm sure you kind of experience, you know

1042
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 2: in DC. You know, you want to beat them on

1043
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: a scoop, but you also, you know, have fun conversations

1044
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: in the basement.

1045
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: Of the team press score against those those partisan you

1046
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: know guys left and right trying to keep the press out.

1047
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: You know, we all band together on that stuff.

1048
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then a few months after I, after I

1049
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: was let go from the Tribune, Mike and Chuck were

1050
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 2: basically forcing a retirement from Lee. And so within just

1051
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: a matter of months, the you know, three of the

1052
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 2: most experienced state House reporters in the Capitol were out

1053
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 2: on the street, so to speak, and and there was

1054
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: just a lot of concern about who was going to

1055
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: cover what's going on. And we were still in the

1056
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 2: midst of all this dark money stuff, and you know,

1057
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 2: the need for legislative coverage certainly hadn't gone away, and

1058
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 2: that you know, and That's what I really understood. You know,

1059
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 2: Montana Free Press was founded on the belief that this

1060
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 2: journalist has value, whether or not it is uh, you know, clickbait,

1061
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: whether or not it is the kind of you know,

1062
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: as as news models had really kind of focused on

1063
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 2: on views over news. It's sort of like the the

1064
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 2: main value proposition to advertisers. I still believe that there

1065
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: were people. There might not be as many advertisers who

1066
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: are interested in it, but the individuals still cared about

1067
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,919
Speaker 2: that kind of reporting. So I found in Montana Free

1068
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,479
Speaker 2: Press is a nonprofit kind of focused on state house

1069
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 2: coverage with the with the idea that those who understood

1070
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: how important that coverage is would support it through their

1071
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: you know, charitable giving their philanthropic support.

1072
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, I was talking with somebody the other day

1073
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: about this issue on news and it was just sort

1074
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: of this person made a point of how particularly the

1075
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: larger local needs operations didn't didn't ever bring the readers

1076
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 1: into the challenge that frankly, local news was facing for

1077
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: the last twenty five years. Right this issue, you know,

1078
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: the concern about shrinking newspaper coverage of state capitals was

1079
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: a huge issue in the nineties and then it became

1080
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: a really problematic in the early odds. And it was

1081
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: the sort of the first round of consolidation, you know,

1082
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: the initial ganetification of local news, right when Gannett gobbled

1083
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: up all these dailies back in the late eighties early nineties.

1084
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 2: Kindly the one my hometown daily that my mom worked for.

1085
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: And then you had night Rider was doing it, McClatchy

1086
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: was doing it. The night Ritter swallowed McClatchy or McLatchy

1087
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: swallowed Nightrider, I can't remember which. And but this person

1088
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: pointed out they never brought the reader in to explain,

1089
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, how the economics were changing, and hey, this

1090
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: is why the Sunday paper is now seven dollars instead

1091
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: of a dollar fifty. This is why you can't just

1092
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: use pocket change to go to a newspaper vending machine

1093
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: and get a copy of the paper. Right it was,

1094
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: we were getting up to two dollars a paper, three

1095
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: dollars of paper, which is still a bargain considering everything

1096
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: you got in in. But it was necessary in order

1097
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: to do that. What I think is interesting, it's sort

1098
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: of like local news didn't bring the community along with

1099
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: its problems in the eighties and nineties and nineties and odds.

1100
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: But now as we're re as local was reinventing itself,

1101
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: you do get the sense that people understand. And I

1102
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: guess part of it is social media has taught us

1103
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: the power of community, right, And it's like, well, you

1104
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: can create You don't have to create a community, this

1105
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: one already exists, just just just tap into it. But

1106
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: if you let readers know which you're up to, then

1107
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: you'll find out what readers want, right.

1108
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, support, And I think that, you know, I I

1109
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 2: really kind of cringe and roll my eyes. You'll hear

1110
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 2: some folks talk about, you know, the need for media literacy,

1111
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 2: and I don't disagree that they're you know that that

1112
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: that that's a real challenge, but I think it also

1113
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: really sort of under sells the general public's like desire

1114
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: to be informed. And I don't think it's just that,

1115
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 2: and I don't suggest that that's what you're saying, Chuck,

1116
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,439
Speaker 2: But it's not just that the news industry did didn't

1117
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 2: do a good enough job bringing readers along on the

1118
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: on the problem. You know, part of it is I

1119
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: think audiences were distracted. You know, we had these new,

1120
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 2: shiny very attractive objects in smartphones that were uh in

1121
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 2: social media. I mean these things. I mean, in my

1122
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: personal opinion, we let this genie out of the bottle

1123
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: without really thinking it through when it comes to, you know,

1124
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 2: putting super connected super computer is in everybody's pocket and

1125
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 2: then unleashing social media and algorithms on the population without

1126
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 2: any real like thought about what that would do and

1127
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 2: how those those motivation.

1128
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: Good news for you, John, is that we're you know,

1129
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: this time, as we're rolling out artificial intelligence and AI

1130
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: for everybody innybody's hands, we're we're we're we're doing such

1131
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: a better Oh wait right, yeah, we're literally the tech

1132
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: companies who already completely broke the information ecosystem, totally distorted it,

1133
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: totally ruined it. And we're trusting these people that come

1134
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: up with sort of permanent facts on behalf of society,

1135
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: which is essentially what AI is going to. They're going

1136
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: to normative, as somebody put it to me, you know,

1137
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: AI is sort of what becomes normalized. Yeah, eighty percent

1138
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: of what's normalized is actually true, but twenty percent of

1139
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: what normal is normalized over time is not. You know,

1140
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, take the take the myth about I mean

1141
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: this just came up recently. We were watching a new

1142
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: documentary in Catherine the Great, and of course there's this

1143
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: infamous rumor about Catherine the Great and her and her

1144
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: sexcapades with a supposed horse. Okay, well, this is a

1145
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: piece of misinformation that has actually survived hundreds of years

1146
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: and there are still people who factually believe it. And

1147
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: now we're going to take AI and essentially take what

1148
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: normalized rumors that become factualized. And you know, I have

1149
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: people that are in the world of worrying about, you know,

1150
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: the rise of anti Semitism and the history of Israel

1151
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: getting sort of distorted by AI chatbots. This is these

1152
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: are the same people that have algorithmed us to death,

1153
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,679
Speaker 1: and now we're doing this. So it's anyway, I don't

1154
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: mean to digress there, but is this is why we

1155
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 1: need new sources of information to continue to feed these

1156
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: language models who are gobbling up in potentially spitting out garbage.

1157
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I mean, you're making a really strong case.

1158
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: And I think that is one of the reasons why

1159
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 2: people are so excited about local news day. And you

1160
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 2: know where I think we have this incredible moment right

1161
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 2: now where you know, I think the public. You know,

1162
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 2: there's studies out there that show that a lot of

1163
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,759
Speaker 2: younger people are a lot savvier. They're a lot hipper

1164
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 2: to these things than we give them credit for. And

1165
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 2: it truly is my parents generation that it is, you

1166
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 2: know that love local news currently, who are the ones

1167
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 2: that like struggle the most to sort of like draw

1168
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 2: the distinction between what's real and what's fake online? And

1169
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 2: you know, my parents can't tell what's AI and what's not.

1170
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: I'm John, I can't. I you know, I sit there

1171
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 1: and I'm you know, You'll see on social media and

1172
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: I'll see people say, well, this is obvious a I slop.

1173
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: And I'm always like, how do you know? Yeah, and

1174
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: how do you I want to know how you know this?

1175
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: Because I want to see it. I want to know

1176
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: what it's obvious a slop? I now just assume it's

1177
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 1: all a I slop.

1178
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 2: Well, and that's why the you go to the source, right,

1179
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 2: I Mean that's the first thing that we do when

1180
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 2: we see something. When I see something that I don't

1181
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 2: know if it's real or not, I go, well, what's

1182
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,720
Speaker 2: the source? Where did this come from? And you know,

1183
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 2: if I can't find a person behind it, like an

1184
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 2: actual human being. Right, If I can't trace it back

1185
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 2: to a real person, then I just assume that it's

1186
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: probably not worth trusting. And I think that's how a

1187
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 2: lot of people are getting right. I mean, it's you

1188
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 2: use the brewery analogy. One that's really kind of feels

1189
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 2: relevant to me is just the dramatic increase in vinyl

1190
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 2: record sales in recent years. And now you're seeing, you know,

1191
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 2: magazine sales are starting to pick up, and you're starting

1192
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 2: to see or some places are even going back to

1193
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 2: print or increasing print because more people are kind of

1194
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 2: seeking the tangible nature, the more permanency of an analog product.

1195
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,799
Speaker 2: And so I'm not suggesting that we all go analog overnight,

1196
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 2: but I do think that local news is something that

1197
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 2: you can It's tangible, right, You can go to an

1198
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 2: event and meet the people who are p u seing it.

1199
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 2: You can you know, you can go to a website

1200
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 2: and see that they have the same you know, zip

1201
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 2: code or area code is you and and you know,

1202
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: as people are looking for what's real and what's not,

1203
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 2: connecting with local news sources who you know and you

1204
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: know they're real because they're they're in front of you.

1205
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 2: They're they're participating there in your community. I think there's

1206
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 2: going to be a strong demand for the authenticity of

1207
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: local news over the uncertainty of everything else.

1208
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: John, I think one thing that we haven't talked about this,

1209
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: but I imagine you feel this because I can sort

1210
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 1: of say because I feel the same way as I'm not.

1211
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 1: I've never been comfortable trying to cheerlead doing this job,

1212
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: and reporters in general are uncomfortable cheerleading. And social media

1213
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: change this right it said, no, no, no, no. If you

1214
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: don't cheerlead your information, no one's going to see it,

1215
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: No one's going to read it. And I'm trying to

1216
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 1: get religion on this, and you know, every day I

1217
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: get a look a little more comfortable realizing, yeah, you

1218
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 1: gotta you got to sing for your supper. You know,

1219
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: as an old saying goes, just how hard is it?

1220
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't. You don't strike me as somebody

1221
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: who you know wants, hey, look look at me, put

1222
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: the spotlight on me. And yet in order to drive relevancy,

1223
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 1: in order to make sure people are looking at her

1224
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 1: stuff that should be looking at her stuff, you kind

1225
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: of have to do that so how did how did

1226
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: you sort of how have you broken through whatever whatever discomfort?

1227
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,719
Speaker 1: And I always say as journalists, we were sort of like, hey,

1228
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 1: let the facts speak for themselves, right. That always is

1229
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: sort of a phrase that like rolled in my head

1230
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 1: the early days of early editors that I work for.

1231
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: And yet it turns out that's not it's it's that's

1232
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: not a way to build a successful UH local news startup.

1233
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: You know, I think we can. It's an interesting question,

1234
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 2: And again I don't know that there's necessarily one size

1235
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 2: fits all answer to that either, because again I think

1236
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 2: it really kind of depends on the community you serve,

1237
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 2: and and you know, we're a statewide organization. We we

1238
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 2: still consider Montana Free Press local. We do have local

1239
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 2: reporters in three communities in the state, and we're looking

1240
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 2: to expand in a fourth and billions this year. So

1241
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 2: we do have local reporters on the ground covering local

1242
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 2: issues and UH and we send our reporters to the

1243
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 2: two local communities to report on for and about those communities.

1244
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 2: But I think showing up first and foremost. I think,

1245
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 2: you know, being present and showing up is really important.

1246
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 2: I think showing your work is another one. I think

1247
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 2: there's you know, a lot of people just don't understand,

1248
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 2: you know, they've got a conception of what reporters are

1249
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 2: from the media, the popular media where usually you know,

1250
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: it's a it's a jerk, you know, with a camera

1251
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 2: or microphone, you know, you know, trying to catch somebody

1252
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 2: in a in a in a hard spot or you know,

1253
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 2: a tragedy or what have you. And like, sure, that's

1254
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 2: part of it too, but a lot of us, most

1255
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 2: of us, really it's it's about you know, showing up,

1256
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 2: being there to represent the interest of audience, Like what

1257
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 2: what what's the audience going to care about?

1258
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: What?

1259
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 2: What are my readers? And as a as a print reporter,

1260
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 2: what are the people who read Montana Free Press? What

1261
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 2: do they want to know? And what information do I

1262
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: need to get because I want to you know, interpret

1263
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 2: their their questions even before they ask them. And and

1264
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 2: this really came clear to me even before I lost

1265
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 2: my job at the trip where I had written I

1266
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 2: was one of the first reporters in the state the blog,

1267
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 2: not the first, but one of the first. And I

1268
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 2: had a blog and in my blog I had taken

1269
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 2: the Attorney General to task over what I thought was

1270
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 2: an inappropriate attack on the Associated Press, which had you know,

1271
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,839
Speaker 2: very reasonably asked for public information, and instead of producing

1272
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 2: that public information or denying it and you know, going

1273
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 2: through the necessary you know channels, you know, sometimes they

1274
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 2: deny it and then we sue them and then the

1275
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 2: courts decide whether we have access to that information or not.

1276
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:08,719
Speaker 2: Rather than kind of go that traditional route, the Attorney General,

1277
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 2: you know, issued a press release denying it and saying

1278
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,719
Speaker 2: that he was protecting gun owners' rights from the prying

1279
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 2: eyes of you know, the news media that you know,

1280
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 2: was asking for information about concealed carry permits. You know,

1281
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: which communities have the most concealed carry permit This is

1282
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: information they've been asking for for years and publishing stories

1283
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 2: that would say, you know, they would report on the trends,

1284
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 2: you know, never like listing who has concealed carry permits.

1285
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 2: But that's sort of like that attack on that a

1286
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 2: P reporter led to a doxing incident, one of the

1287
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 2: early docing incidents, where that AP reporter his his name address,

1288
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 2: Google images of his house were posted on an extreme

1289
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 2: far right you know, extremist network. And I took issue

1290
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: with that and I called I made my my attitude.

1291
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 2: It's known, and that very quickly led to an invitation

1292
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 2: for the Montana Tea Party Association to come basically answer

1293
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 2: for my attacks on the Second Amendment. So I took

1294
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 2: that invitation. I went to an evangelical church out in

1295
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: the out in the helen and of our valley, and

1296
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 2: they wanted to know, like why I wrote what I wrote,

1297
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 2: and why I think journalists should have access to that information.

1298
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: And we had a really interesting conversation where we heard

1299
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 2: each other right, like, I heard what their concerns were,

1300
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 2: and then I said, let me tell you how we

1301
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 2: do our job, why we do our job, why this

1302
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 2: information is important, why the Montana Constitution has a right

1303
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 2: to know. And I kind of explained just sort of

1304
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 2: like the whole process and how the role that journalism

1305
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:52,880
Speaker 2: plays in representing the public in holding their government officials accountable.

1306
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 2: And it didn't take long for them to make those

1307
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 2: connections and see that this was a more complex story

1308
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 2: than the soundbites might have you believe, and that takes work, right.

1309
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 2: Not every journalist doesn't have time to go out there

1310
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 2: and have individual conversations about every single story, but we do.

1311
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 2: We do through the technology and the platforms that we

1312
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 2: have access to now, like what we're doing right here,

1313
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 2: we can show our work to a broader base of people.

1314
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 2: We can talk more about not just what we do,

1315
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 2: but how we do it, why it's important, and it

1316
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 2: doesn't all have to be negativity, and it doesn't all

1317
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 2: have to be accountability. Some of it is, you know,

1318
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 2: we provide a public service that isn't always just you know,

1319
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 2: getting people in trouble or you know, quote unquote holding

1320
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: public officials accountable. A lot of what we do is

1321
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 2: just informing people.

1322
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I've come to,

1323
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 1: you know what the biggest difference between local and national

1324
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,759
Speaker 1: and I used to say and sort of why national

1325
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 1: media trust you know what, guy, What has gotten me

1326
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 1: into the local space is my conclusion that the loss

1327
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: of trusted local character references or national news media. You

1328
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 1: know that that in some ways, if you trusted your

1329
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 1: local news outlet, then you were more likely to trust

1330
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 1: the national news outlet that local news outlet was affiliated with.

1331
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 1: And now we've gone the other way, which is, you know,

1332
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: it's like Fox News viewers nationally only trust the local

1333
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: Fox right, And it used to be the other way around.

1334
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 1: If you trusted your local, then then that worked its

1335
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: way up. And so and the conclusion that I drew

1336
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 1: as to why that was, well, one is, you fact

1337
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 1: check local every day, right, you find out what the

1338
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: weather is, you know, or little things like that. And

1339
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: if they're misinforming you on the weather and traffic as

1340
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to work or whatever it is, well

1341
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: you're not going to trust them for anything else. Right,

1342
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: if they take at they take at the weather. Right

1343
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:05,679
Speaker 1: that I got to get the other stuff. But local

1344
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: also served a different purpose than national. Right, National told

1345
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:14,919
Speaker 1: you things that you should know as a citizen. Local

1346
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: was informing you of things that you both needed to

1347
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 1: know to live your life. But sometimes stuff that you

1348
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of cool to know, right, Right.

1349
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 1: That might be local sports. That might be you know,

1350
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: the local play that's coming to town. So it's it's

1351
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 1: finding out what's happening in the neighborhood. It might be

1352
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,639
Speaker 1: where do I find cheaper groceries I'm I'm a little

1353
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, or or hey, what grocery stores accept snap

1354
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 1: benefits in which grocery stores don't write, or things like that,

1355
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 1: And it was just sort of the the consumer. It

1356
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: was the consumer aspect of of of helping the helping

1357
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: your read who's also a consumer, right, be helpful. And

1358
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 1: I will say this, my biggest concern with the rise

1359
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 1: of a lot of local news outlets right now is

1360
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 1: that I think we all want to you know, as

1361
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: my my friend Richard Gingris, who was at the Google

1362
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: News Initiative for a very long time and he's now

1363
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,759
Speaker 1: working with a company in Canada that's doing some interesting

1364
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: local news work called Village Media, by the way, But

1365
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 1: Richard said the worst thing to happen to journalism was

1366
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: all the presidents men, because it's a whole generation of

1367
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: us all wanted to be Bob Boarder, right, and it

1368
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 1: was all about accountability when there's a service part to

1369
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: journalism right where we're just sort of a public servant.

1370
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: Right we're letting you know, hey, there's going to be

1371
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 1: a rise in electric bills this way, but we're also

1372
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 1: going to let you know that, hey, there's a sale.

1373
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you saw the sale via an advertiser,

1374
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: or sometimes you found out, hey, if you you know,

1375
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 1: there's there's cheaper chicken at the Eldies this week versus

1376
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: the Trader Joe's this week, or wherever it is. And

1377
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 1: I think sometimes with some of our journalism colleagues it's

1378
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: hard to tell them and hey, you know, you got

1379
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: to just help people live their life too, And you

1380
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,919
Speaker 1: may not see that as journalism, but that's how you build.

1381
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 2: Trust one hundred percent. And I mean we do that.

1382
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 2: You know at Montana Free Press. That became really obvious

1383
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 2: to us in the pandemic, right like, there were just

1384
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:35,480
Speaker 2: a handful there were three of us.

1385
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 1: Useful items, right like, how do I do this? Where

1386
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: do I find this? Yeah?

1387
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 2: And you know, the beautiful thing is we have such

1388
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 2: incredibly powerful to us some of the technologies and some

1389
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: of the platforms and some of the things that you know,

1390
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 2: we could point to that said, you know, these are

1391
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 2: part of the problem.

1392
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: They're also saying there's other things. You're right, there's other

1393
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:53,440
Speaker 1: things they do for the solutions.

1394
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 2: And you know one of the things that we did

1395
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 2: that I that was you know, it didn't seem all

1396
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 2: that novel at the time, but I think think in

1397
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 2: Montana in that moment, it was a degree of a

1398
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 2: novel approach to journalism. Was you know, there were three

1399
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 2: of us publishing in the newsroom at the time. We

1400
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 2: had just hired a business person, you know, our first

1401
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 2: business person. So we were a team of four, I

1402
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:16,560
Speaker 2: believe when the pandemic hit and we had the shutdown,

1403
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 2: and I had a weekly podcast at the time called

1404
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 2: The Lowdown, which is now the Montana Lowdown, which is

1405
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 2: now the name of our weekly newsletter. And I went

1406
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,600
Speaker 2: from a weekly podcast to a daily podcast, and it

1407
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 2: went from being sort of like a big you know,

1408
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 2: something along akin to what you and I are doing now,

1409
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 2: to something a little bit more like, hey, here the

1410
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 2: here are the ten things you need to know today

1411
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 2: or the three things that you need to know today.

1412
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: So you're almost like the morning drive time radio guy.

1413
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 2: I was just trying, you know, it was my.

1414
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: Job helping with the local news, helping with the local

1415
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 1: like good morning, of your cup of coffee, A better

1416
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: be careful of this today.

1417
01:22:58,200 --> 01:22:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. One of the I remember one of

1418
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 2: the episodes was talking to the heads of you know,

1419
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 2: shelters that house domestic violence victims, you know, and like

1420
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 2: that suddenly in Montana in March, when the temperatures are

1421
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 2: in the teens are below is a real serious problem. Right,

1422
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 2: So like kind of just shifting what we did to

1423
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: sort of like meet the moment and then you know,

1424
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 2: doing things like looking at Google Search console and seeing

1425
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 2: what what are people in Montana asking Google about the pandemic.

1426
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:32,759
Speaker 2: And then now we know the questions that the public

1427
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 2: has on their mind, let's go out and get those answers.

1428
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 2: And so we went from a weekly newsletter to a

1429
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 2: daily newsletter, and we had a COVID tracker that you know,

1430
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 2: just provided just a running you know, latest, this is

1431
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: what we know, this is what's happening. And what we

1432
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 2: saw was just a massive, you know, increase in audience overnight.

1433
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 2: And what that told us was if you're giving people

1434
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 2: information that they can use, If if you're doing things

1435
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 2: that can help them understand the thing that they care

1436
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,000
Speaker 2: most about right now in a way that they feel

1437
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 2: gives them some sense of comfort, some sense of agency,

1438
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 2: then they're going to reward you. They're going to reward

1439
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 2: you maybe becoming a reader, they're going to reward you.

1440
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: If you're a for profit model, maybe they're going to subscribe.

1441
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:18,599
Speaker 2: If you're a nonprofit model, maybe they're going to donate.

1442
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 2: And you know, that's what we saw is you know,

1443
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 2: and then that became kind of just sort of a

1444
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 2: big part of the ethos is like, give people things

1445
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:28,599
Speaker 2: that they want. Yes, we're going to also give them

1446
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 2: things that they we think they need, but we want

1447
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're not ignoring what it is

1448
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 2: that they want because it's not a supply side problem.

1449
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 2: Is we need to be meeting the demand, right, That

1450
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:40,960
Speaker 2: is the issue is, you.

1451
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 1: Know, it's this fine line of look, what the algorithms do,

1452
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: only seem to give people what they want, versus if

1453
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: you know your own readers, you've got to figure out

1454
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: how to walk that line, right, which is, yeah, you know,

1455
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 1: we know what you want, and but you know, here's

1456
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 1: something you need to know. You know, And I always say,

1457
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: if they trust you with helping you live their lives,

1458
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 1: then they'll trust you when you tell them that their

1459
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 1: city councilman's corrupt.

1460
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And again that kind of goes back

1461
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: to showing up too. I mean, we do a lot

1462
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 2: of live events.

1463
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:14,960
Speaker 1: We do.

1464
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 2: We create a lot of opportunities for public engagement, and

1465
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 2: our reporters get on the ground in communities and build relationships,

1466
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 2: and you know, showing up, building relationships, being authentic, that's

1467
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 2: what local news does, you know, and that local news

1468
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:36,759
Speaker 2: that it's best is reflecting what the community cares about,

1469
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 2: what the community's identity is about, what you know, it's

1470
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:45,879
Speaker 2: it's warts and all. But when people see themselves, their community,

1471
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 2: the things they cared about reflected in a news source,

1472
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 2: then they develop loyalty. And again, you know, our goal

1473
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,479
Speaker 2: with Local News Day is to really highlight those folks

1474
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,759
Speaker 2: who are doing that, to get people who didn't maybe

1475
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 2: know that they had local news in their right.

1476
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot I realize that there's a lot.

1477
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Of people in this in this state who don't know

1478
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:08,160
Speaker 2: who they've never heard of Montana Free Press. There's a

1479
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 2: lot of people in Helena, where we're based, where we

1480
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 2: have a local newsletter, who've never heard of it, right,

1481
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 2: And that's just because there's so much information out there. Right,

1482
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 2: people are inundated with information, and so Local News Day

1483
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 2: our goal is to flood the zone right that on

1484
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 2: April ninth, people all over the country are talking about

1485
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 2: local news and if they go to Localnewsday dot org,

1486
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 2: there will be a very user friendly tool there for

1487
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 2: them to locate local news entities in their area or

1488
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 2: an area they care about. And our hope is that

1489
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 2: on this day we can you know, significantly grow audiences

1490
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 2: for local news and strengthen the local news ecosystem and

1491
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 2: in doing so, you know, make more connections, bring more

1492
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 2: people together. Lord knows, there are plenty of platforms and

1493
01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 2: and and uh, you know, profits seeking entity that really

1494
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,599
Speaker 2: kind of thrive off of division. And this is one

1495
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 2: of those, I think, really unique opportunities to you know,

1496
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,679
Speaker 2: rise all boats with connection.

1497
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: And there's really you know, you know, basically there's no

1498
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 1: there's no litmus test for being a member of this

1499
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:24,680
Speaker 1: of this community at this point, right to be a

1500
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 1: part of the local news, I mean, other than being

1501
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:31,599
Speaker 1: a legitimate you know, a legitimate local proprietor.

1502
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like Giving Tuesday or you know,

1503
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 2: I remember when I was a kid Earth Day, you know,

1504
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,719
Speaker 2: my third grade class going out and planting the tree,

1505
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 2: a tree that was a little sapling when I planted

1506
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 2: it back in third grade. And when I drive by

1507
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 2: my hometown, it's now a giant maple tree. Right, you know,

1508
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: these it's whatever, whatever is meaningful to you. I mean,

1509
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 2: if you're already somebody who really cares about local news,

1510
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 2: help spread the word, you know, share it on your

1511
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: social media. Forward emails from your local news providers to

1512
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,719
Speaker 2: the people in your world who you think would would

1513
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,960
Speaker 2: would be interested in it. If you're a business or

1514
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,759
Speaker 2: an institution who understands the the just the critical public

1515
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: service that that local news provides, celebrate it. Put a

1516
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 2: banner in your lobby, uh, you know, put a put

1517
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 2: a logo on your website.

1518
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 1: Look, the better local news does, the better local businesses

1519
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:30,040
Speaker 1: can target future customers. I mean, I just, I really,

1520
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: I really believe that because I've learned from a lot

1521
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 1: of local businesses and doing what I was trying to

1522
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,799
Speaker 1: do and trying to scale local news, which is not easy.

1523
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: Scaling local news is in some ways, Uh maybe it's impossible, right,

1524
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,559
Speaker 1: just like Gennet proved is. It is tough to scale.

1525
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean you can't network it. It doesn't

1526
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: mean there aren't old ways like UPI and stuff like

1527
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:56,679
Speaker 1: that where you can sort of recreate systems that actually enhance,

1528
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:02,800
Speaker 1: help scale certain parts of the operations process while still

1529
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 1: allowing local proprietores to have their identities. How many participating

1530
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 1: organizations do we have already?

1531
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 2: I know it's a bunch, you know, we're a yeah,

1532
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 2: I think we're approaching seven hundred newsrooms.

1533
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 1: The goal was five hundred, right, the goal in year one.

1534
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 2: Was five hundred. We wanted newsrooms and all fifty states. Yeah,

1535
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,799
Speaker 2: I think we're yeah, we're approaching seven hundred newsrooms somewhere

1536
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 2: in there. I might be a little it's between six

1537
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: and seven hundred. And then we've got we've got more

1538
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 2: than one hundred partner organizations. We're looking to grow that.

1539
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 2: So if there are institutions organizations out there that are

1540
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 2: interested in being a part of this, we'd love to

1541
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 2: hear from you. Visit Local Newsday dot org and and

1542
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 2: click on the you know, the join us button, And

1543
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 2: what it means to be a partner is basically saying, yeah,

1544
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,639
Speaker 2: I really love this idea, I want to support Local

1545
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 2: news Day and we're going to amplify the message on

1546
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 2: April ninth. And then we've got a little about a

1547
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 2: dozen sponsors that are that are supporting this cause with

1548
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 2: with direct financial contribution. So, you know, our goal here

1549
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 2: is not to you know, to raise a bunch of

1550
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 2: money and spend a bunch of money. Our goal here

1551
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 2: is really to get the word out and really energize

1552
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 2: people all over the country to on one day come

1553
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 2: together and really express how much they value local news

1554
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 2: and how much local news elevates their community.

1555
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's as simple as subscribe, find out.

1556
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: You know, in my I live in Arlington, Virginia, and

1557
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,759
Speaker 1: we have Arlington Now. It is mostly a digital feed

1558
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:43,639
Speaker 1: that's mostly a Twitter feed, but it is the only

1559
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,679
Speaker 1: entity we have that covers arlingkedin government and what's happening

1560
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 1: in the Arlington community. It's like that, and you know,

1561
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: various list serves in different communities, at little sub communities

1562
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 1: within Arlington, and it's you know it, I'm thankful for

1563
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: the gentleman that's behind Arlington Now. He's like a one

1564
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,719
Speaker 1: man operation, you know, and he's been he's been plugging

1565
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: away at it for some time. And it is. You know,

1566
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: the Washington Post ceased covering local news a long time ago.

1567
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: A bunch of us noticed, but they used to at

1568
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: least cover the city of Washington, and they just sort

1569
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 1: of pulled up stakes there. It is, so you know,

1570
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: if people just to simply subscribe right, sign up for

1571
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: the email alert, if there's an email alert, sign up

1572
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 1: for the feed, if there's a feed, you know, most

1573
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,680
Speaker 1: of these local proprietors are not going to beg you

1574
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 1: for money. They'll let you sign up and then you know, yes,

1575
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: we'd like you to if you're if you're getting something

1576
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: out of it, we hope you will give something back

1577
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 1: or in something that used to call a subscription.

1578
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, for profit or nonprofit really the

1579
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 2: you know, my view an old.

1580
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:55,680
Speaker 1: Fool that we have a for profit model that is

1581
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 1: sustainable over time, because I do worry the nonprofit is

1582
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 1: sort of know you want you want to you want

1583
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 1: a self sustaining ecosystem, you know, whether it's Look, I

1584
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 1: think that there's a case to be made that classified

1585
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:12,560
Speaker 1: could make a comeback. You know, people do care about obituaries.

1586
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,719
Speaker 1: And there are different ways and events you talk about

1587
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 1: being in person events or another way you can create

1588
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:22,599
Speaker 1: revenue and and things. And look, you you are going

1589
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: to have to be ah, you know, you gotta gotta

1590
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:29,720
Speaker 1: be experimental.

1591
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 2: One hundred and you know the what I our friend

1592
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 2: Evan Smith always like to say that, you know, one

1593
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: of the founders of the Texas Tributne like to say

1594
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 2: that your your tax status is not a business model, right,

1595
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 2: I mean, uh, and that's really true. But at the

1596
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 2: end of the day, local news matters Uh, only if

1597
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 2: it's reaching an audience that it can have an impact. Right,

1598
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 2: if you're doing great journalism but nobody knows about it,

1599
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:01,840
Speaker 2: that isn't doing any good. And if you're doing great

1600
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 2: journalism and not enough people are reading it, then you

1601
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 2: don't have a long term path to sustainability. So audiences

1602
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:13,760
Speaker 2: are critically important for local news from the business model standpoint.

1603
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:16,559
Speaker 2: Both from an impact this is how our journalism matters

1604
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,760
Speaker 2: by reaching enough people that that that a critical mass

1605
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 2: of uh informed public can can take you know, appropriate

1606
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 2: action when need be. And also it's about the sustainability.

1607
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 2: You know, whether your for profit and your your your

1608
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 2: money is coming from you know, advertising revenue. Those advertisers

1609
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:40,879
Speaker 2: care about your audience. And if your nonprofit, your audience

1610
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 2: is a significant source of revenue in the forms of

1611
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 2: individual donations and and also earned revenue. So it's really

1612
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 2: about growing audience across the country for local news for

1613
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:51,839
Speaker 2: sustainability and impact.

1614
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: John, Local News Day, I'm I'm fired up, and every week, uh,

1615
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: you're kicking it off, But every week I'm gonna be

1616
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 1: talking to a different local news entrepreneur and just talk

1617
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: about the different business models used. As a nonprofit, there

1618
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,840
Speaker 1: are not for profits. There are ones that are subscription based,

1619
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 1: ones that are ads supported, you know. So there's all

1620
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 1: different models and we frankly want to showcase all of them,

1621
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,719
Speaker 1: you know. And sometimes there's different there's ethic based local

1622
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: media that's doing tremendous jobs for different first gen communities.

1623
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,559
Speaker 1: So we're going to feature at least one different type

1624
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,080
Speaker 1: of local news outlet between now and April ninth. I'm

1625
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 1: looking forward to it.

1626
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:36,799
Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, we really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure

1627
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:38,800
Speaker 2: having you on the team. We're excited to have you

1628
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:42,240
Speaker 2: be a part of this movement, and we appreciate the

1629
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:45,000
Speaker 2: support of you and all of your viewers and listeners.

1630
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: And look, I'm just glad you picked April Night because

1631
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 1: April lates my birthday, so you know, and my birthday

1632
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: wishes to participate in Local News Day and April Night.

1633
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:56,720
Speaker 2: All right, Well let's do it, all right, brother, Thanks, Thanks, Seck,

1634
01:34:56,760 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 2: appreciated it.

1635
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 1: All right, Local News Day, April ninth, mark your calendar.

1636
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 1: All I'm asking for you to do is to sign

1637
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 1: up for an email alert, subscribe to a local news

1638
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 1: outlet that's doing something, take a trial subscription, Go go

1639
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:23,640
Speaker 1: do something to support local news. American Express advertise a

1640
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 1: small business Day. I'm advertising Local News Day. Mark your calendars.

1641
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:32,880
Speaker 1: April ninth. All right, this is normally this is a

1642
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: Wednesday episode, which means I have a new top five list,

1643
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:40,720
Speaker 1: And in honor of the Mississippi primaries, I thought I

1644
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 1: would give you a little bit on my top As

1645
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 1: I told you for years, I was working on a

1646
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:52,520
Speaker 1: book about the you know, tales from the trail craziest

1647
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:56,280
Speaker 1: campaigns in American history. Every state has that way to

1648
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 1: hear the story about this one. So last week I

1649
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:02,719
Speaker 1: gave you the five my all time five greatest statewide

1650
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 1: campaigns in Texas history. Today I decided, with Mississippi on

1651
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 1: the ballot on Tuesday, I'd do the top five.

1652
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 2: Top five top.

1653
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, who knows if this Senate race

1654
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 1: in the general election. Sidney Hyde Smith the Republican incumbent

1655
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:26,760
Speaker 1: District Attorney Scott Colem, who Sydney Hyde Smith blocked from

1656
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,400
Speaker 1: becoming a federal judge. So he decided, scirt, now I'm

1657
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:34,679
Speaker 1: gonna run against her. Who knows? Right, if he somehow

1658
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:38,080
Speaker 1: pulls off a victory, this race will suddenly break into

1659
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:39,560
Speaker 1: a top five because it would be one of the

1660
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: greatest upsets in Mississippi history. But I do expect this

1661
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: race Sidney hight Smith that you know, in a special

1662
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 1: election back in twenty eighteen against Mike esp didn't break

1663
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: fifty five percent. You know, Mississippi is one of those

1664
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 1: where Democrats can get to forty six forty seven actually

1665
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:02,479
Speaker 1: fairly easily, not all this, but fairly easily. The problem

1666
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,640
Speaker 1: they got is at last three or four. Do you

1667
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 1: think it's hard to break the barrier in Texas? It's

1668
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 1: really hard to break the bary in Mississippi, although it

1669
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: would cost less to do the groundwork in Mississippi that

1670
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,599
Speaker 1: the state Party and the National Party have paid lip

1671
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:20,479
Speaker 1: service to over the years but have never actually done so.

1672
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 1: With that though, it was interesting in putting together this

1673
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:29,920
Speaker 1: top five list, there was there's sort of one election

1674
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:34,480
Speaker 1: cycle in Mississippi history that sort of you can't really categorize.

1675
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 1: And this is so before we get to my top five,

1676
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about the eighteen seventy five

1677
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 1: Mississippi elections because it did essentially end reconstruction. Eighteen seventy five,

1678
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: it was called what historians have called this the Redemption elections.

1679
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,719
Speaker 1: In Mississippi. At the time, the state was being governed

1680
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 1: by a Republican coalition built during reconstruction, supported heavily by

1681
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 1: newly enfranchised black voters. The governor was Adelbert Ames, a

1682
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 1: former Union general who had moved south after the Civil War,

1683
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 1: one of the so called carpetbaggers, as Southerners would call

1684
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:15,480
Speaker 1: these guys, and he became one of the most powerful

1685
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 1: reconstruction politicians in the state of Mississippi. White Democrats, though,

1686
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:25,200
Speaker 1: organized a coordinated campaign known as the Mississippi Plan in

1687
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five. This wasn't just about politics, it was

1688
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 1: about intimidation. Armed rifle clubs appeared at Republican rallies. Black

1689
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 1: voters were threatened, beaten, and sometimes killed. Polling places were surrounded.

1690
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:40,679
Speaker 1: Ames asked Washington for federal troops to protect the vote,

1691
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 1: but the troops never came. Democrats captured the legislature and

1692
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 1: soon forced Aims to resign. Reconstruction in Mississippi effectively ended

1693
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:53,200
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy five, but the consequences didn't stop at

1694
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 1: the state line. The strategy used in Mississippi in eighteen

1695
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:59,680
Speaker 1: seventy five became the blueprint for southern Democrats across the

1696
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 1: South in eighteen seventy six. A year later, the country

1697
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: faced the first of what would become a handful of

1698
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,719
Speaker 1: disputed presidential elections in our history, This one in eighteen

1699
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:12,760
Speaker 1: seventy six between Samuel Tilden, the Democratic governor of New York,

1700
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 1: and RUTHERD. B. Hayes, the Republican governor of Ohio. That

1701
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:19,840
Speaker 1: crisis was resolved by the Uncomfortable Compromise of eighteen seventy seven,

1702
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 1: which ended federal enforcement of reconstruction across the South. In

1703
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: some ways, Mississippi had already ended reconstruction two years before

1704
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 1: the rest of the country admitted it. For the next

1705
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 1: ninety years, Mississippi functioned as a one party democratic state,

1706
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 1: the political system known as in the Solid South. Everything

1707
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:44,599
Speaker 1: on our list today happens inside a political structure that

1708
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 1: was created in that moment in eighteen seventy five. So

1709
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:50,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to deal with the rest of campaign history

1710
01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:53,920
Speaker 1: in Mississippi without dealing with the eighteen seventy five elections

1711
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 1: that basically ended reconstruction. So with that being said, the

1712
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:04,200
Speaker 1: top five most conscious, and it's a combination. Look what

1713
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 1: you decide is you know these are these are consequential elections,

1714
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 1: and that's why they made the top five plus. Number

1715
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 1: one on my list is the nineteen to fifty nine

1716
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 1: race for Governor Ross Barnett and the politics of defiance.

1717
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 1: This is the first campaign that takes us to the

1718
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:26,000
Speaker 1: height of the civil rights era. The candidate was Ross Barnett.

1719
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:28,280
Speaker 1: He was a Jackson trial lawyer who'd already run for

1720
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 1: governor twice and lost. Barnett was also a proud member

1721
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 1: of what was a successor to the Klan called Citizen Councils,

1722
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 1: This segregationist organization that emerged after the Supreme Court under

1723
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 1: Chief Justice or a War ordered school desegregation in Brown

1724
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:46,680
Speaker 1: versus Board of Education. Barnett's campaign message was blunt. He

1725
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 1: told crowds the good Lord was the original segregationist. Barnett

1726
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:53,599
Speaker 1: finished first in the Democratic primary, then won the runoff

1727
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:57,160
Speaker 1: against the Lieutenant Governor, Carol Garden. Barnett won the runoff

1728
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,600
Speaker 1: with about fifty five percent of the vote. No, it

1729
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:02,759
Speaker 1: was no Republican. This is the old Democratic primary decided

1730
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:04,599
Speaker 1: who was governor in the South in a lot of places.

1731
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:09,559
Speaker 1: So Barnett was basically unopposed, even at a campaign song

1732
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 1: that became the song of the state of Mississippi. It

1733
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: was called Roll with Ross. Supporters would sing it at

1734
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 1: rallies across Mississippi, and after Barnett won, the melody eventually

1735
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:25,800
Speaker 1: became the official state song, Go Mississippi. But this campaign

1736
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:30,320
Speaker 1: promising to enforce segregation wasn't just theater. Barnett was governor

1737
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two when a black Air Force veteran

1738
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 1: named James Merrith excuse me applied to the University of Mississippi.

1739
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 1: Barnett personally tried to block Meredith from enrolling. Riots erupted

1740
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 1: on campus. Two people were killed, hundreds were injured. Eventually,

1741
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 1: the President John F. Kennedy sent federal troops to enforce

1742
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 1: the court order. Barnett's nineteen fifty nine campaign was the

1743
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:55,480
Speaker 1: political mandate behind that confrontation. Mississippi voters didn't stumble into definance,

1744
01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:00,400
Speaker 1: they elected it. He basically promised that he was never

1745
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:05,599
Speaker 1: going to desegregate Mississippi schools, and that fifty nine campaign

1746
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,760
Speaker 1: gave us the showdown at Ole, miss in nineteen sixty two.

1747
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 1: Second campaign on my list is the nineteen seventy eight

1748
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 1: Senate race. This had some drama in it. It's the

1749
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:19,280
Speaker 1: first Republican to break to crack the solid South, and

1750
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:23,479
Speaker 1: it reshaped Mississippi's party. It basically created a two party system.

1751
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: In seventy eight, longtime Democratic Senator James Eastland decided to

1752
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:31,639
Speaker 1: retire after nearly four decades in office. The Democratic nominee

1753
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 1: was Maurice Danton. The Republican nominee was Dad Cochrane. He

1754
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 1: was a Congressman from Jackson, But the race had a

1755
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 1: third candidate, Eddie McBride, an independent that was supported by

1756
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 1: Charles Evers, the mayor of Fayette. Charles Evers was also

1757
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:49,320
Speaker 1: the brother of Medgar Evers, the NAACP Field Secretary of

1758
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:53,599
Speaker 1: Mississippi who was assassinated outside as Jackson Home in nineteen

1759
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:58,799
Speaker 1: sixty three. McBride siphoned off enough Democratic votes to fracture

1760
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:03,240
Speaker 1: that old koali Dad Cochrane won the Senate's seat. There

1761
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:06,320
Speaker 1: were no runoffs for a general election back then. Dad

1762
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 1: cochrane won with forty five percent, Maurice Danton got forty

1763
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,599
Speaker 1: three percent, and Eddie McBride, with the support of Charles Evers,

1764
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 1: got eleven percent. And that's how the first Republican was

1765
01:43:16,720 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 1: elected to the US Senate in Mississippi. Since reconstruction. Cochrane

1766
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 1: would serve forty years in the Senate, eventually chairing the

1767
01:43:24,479 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 1: Appropriations Committee. But Mississippi's political realignment began with a race

1768
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 1: that at the time nobody expected Republicans to win. Forty

1769
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:36,639
Speaker 1: five percent was about their ceiling back then, but when

1770
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 1: you throw a third party into the race, forty five

1771
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:42,000
Speaker 1: percent became a winning number. Third campaign on my List,

1772
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:48,120
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine Governor. This is one of these positive

1773
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 1: reform story. William Winter. He was a moderate Democrat from Granada, Mississippi.

1774
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: He ran for governor in sixty seven and lost. He

1775
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: ran again in seventy five, and he lost again. In

1776
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: seventy nine, he finally won, and he won big, sixty

1777
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: one percent. The Republican nomen he got thirty nine percent

1778
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 1: Democratic primary, of course, was the whole thing. But the

1779
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:12,280
Speaker 1: significance wasn't just the victory. It was what Winter did afterward,

1780
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:14,160
Speaker 1: and it's a big deal in Mississippi. At the time,

1781
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: Mississippi had no statewide kindergarten system and no compulsory school

1782
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 1: attendance law. Believe it or not, Winter pushed through a

1783
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:26,479
Speaker 1: sweeping education reform package. After months of campaigning for the

1784
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:29,000
Speaker 1: plant across the state. The Education Reform Act of nineteen

1785
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:32,640
Speaker 1: eighty two passed the legislature by just one vote, but

1786
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:38,519
Speaker 1: that one vote created public kindergarten dramatically expanded Mississippi school system.

1787
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 1: Clarion Ledger called it the Mississippi Miracle, and it has been.

1788
01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 1: You know, look it is Mississippi trailed for a long time,

1789
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:49,680
Speaker 1: but most recently you heard here from Maramamanuel how the

1790
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:54,040
Speaker 1: continued investment in their public education system now has thanks

1791
01:44:54,040 --> 01:45:00,919
Speaker 1: to new funding and a new reading program by Jim Barksdale,

1792
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:05,960
Speaker 1: founder of Netscape, they're in the top five in the

1793
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:10,719
Speaker 1: country when it comes to third grade reading. Fourth campaign

1794
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,960
Speaker 1: on My List, nineteen ninety nine, Governor. This was a

1795
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:17,840
Speaker 1: weird election. Mississippi once had one of the strangest gubernatorial

1796
01:45:17,880 --> 01:45:21,240
Speaker 1: election systems in America. It was kind of their own

1797
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: version of the electoral college. To win the governorship, a

1798
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: candidate had to win a majority of the statewide vote

1799
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:29,600
Speaker 1: and a majority of the House districts state house districts,

1800
01:45:29,680 --> 01:45:31,680
Speaker 1: and if nobody achieved both, the election went to the

1801
01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 1: Mississippi House of Representatives. The rule dated back to the

1802
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:39,200
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety constitution, written during the Jim Crow era. It

1803
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 1: was all about making sure no Republican or black candidate

1804
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 1: could win. That's what member every runoff rule, all the

1805
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 1: runoff rules in the South were all about denying black

1806
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:56,120
Speaker 1: candidates an opportunity to win statewide and win in pluralities.

1807
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 1: So this was one of these weird things they put

1808
01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:01,639
Speaker 1: into their constitution. And again when they did, it tells

1809
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,559
Speaker 1: you everything you need to know. Eighteen ninety right and

1810
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:08,640
Speaker 1: smack dab and Jim Crow. But it never actually came

1811
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:12,280
Speaker 1: into play until the nineteen ninety nine governor's race. It

1812
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:14,080
Speaker 1: would come into play one more time, and I'll get

1813
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:17,719
Speaker 1: to it in a minute. The candidates were Ronnie Musgrove,

1814
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: Democratic Lieutenant governor and a Republican congressman named Mike Parker.

1815
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:24,320
Speaker 1: Musgrove wins forty nine point six percent of the vote.

1816
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:26,960
Speaker 1: Mike Parker got forty eight point five percent of the vote.

1817
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 1: Two percent went to others. Musgrove won the popular vote,

1818
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:34,400
Speaker 1: but the House district count ended sixty one districts for Musgrove,

1819
01:46:35,200 --> 01:46:38,559
Speaker 1: sixty one districts for Parker. It was a time and

1820
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:42,840
Speaker 1: under the state constitution, the election went to the Mississippi House. Well,

1821
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 1: this was nineteen ninety nine, but believe it or not,

1822
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:48,639
Speaker 1: the Democrats still controlled that chamber. There were a few

1823
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 1: chambers they controlled into the early odts. Mississippi was one

1824
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:55,320
Speaker 1: of them. Oklahoma was one of them. Anyway, they narrowly

1825
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:58,680
Speaker 1: elected Musgrove governor, but it remains the only time in

1826
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:02,599
Speaker 1: modern Mississippi history that the legislature chose the governor instead

1827
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:06,720
Speaker 1: of the voters. And in twenty twenty, Mississippi voters themselves

1828
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 1: finally abolished that system. Number five on my list is

1829
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:13,920
Speaker 1: a pretty important race because I think it was a

1830
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:17,439
Speaker 1: preview of something that the Republican Party was about to do.

1831
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:21,280
Speaker 1: It was the twenty fourteen Senate Republican primary. It was

1832
01:47:21,320 --> 01:47:24,280
Speaker 1: the final campaign for Thad Cochrane. He'd been in the

1833
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:28,200
Speaker 1: Senate thirty six years. The challenger was a Tea Party

1834
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:34,080
Speaker 1: supporting state senator named Chris McDaniel. First prime first round

1835
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 1: of the primary vote shocked people. McDaniel just missed avoiding

1836
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:40,360
Speaker 1: a runoff. He got forty nine point five percent of

1837
01:47:40,360 --> 01:47:43,679
Speaker 1: the vote. Thad Cochran got forty nine point zero percent

1838
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 1: of the vote, so no candidate got fifty percent a

1839
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 1: runoff was required. This looked like Cochrane was a dead duck.

1840
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:57,639
Speaker 1: Right runoffs, fewer voters show up, the more conservative candidate

1841
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:01,639
Speaker 1: usually wins. In this case, it was McDaniel, and yet

1842
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:06,439
Speaker 1: cochran won the runoff narrowly fifty point eight percent. McDaniel

1843
01:48:06,439 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: got forty nine point two percent he wanted, by about

1844
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:11,840
Speaker 1: seventy six hundred votes. Cochrane survived by mobilizing a bunch

1845
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,599
Speaker 1: of crossover voters, black voters in the Mississippi Delta who

1846
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 1: had not participated in the Democratic primary. Remember this was

1847
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:20,519
Speaker 1: the same this is the same issue I've been bringing

1848
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 1: up about what John Cornan faces in Texas. A whole

1849
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:26,799
Speaker 1: bunch of voters who voted early in the Democratic primary

1850
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:30,240
Speaker 1: now and are not available to Cornyn, the more moderate

1851
01:48:30,240 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 1: of the two candidates against Paxton, for him to potentially

1852
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 1: message to and get them to vote. Well, this is

1853
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 1: what they advantaged Cochrane had. So the Democratic primary was

1854
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:43,960
Speaker 1: not really that well contested, so there wasn't a huge

1855
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:46,240
Speaker 1: turnout of Democrats for that primary. So there was a

1856
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:49,840
Speaker 1: whole bunch of voters who hadn't voted, so in theory

1857
01:48:49,880 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 1: they could vote in the Republican runoff. It was an

1858
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:58,679
Speaker 1: ugly race. The race produced one of the strangest scandals

1859
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:01,679
Speaker 1: in modern politics, and McDaniel supporter broke into the nursing

1860
01:49:01,680 --> 01:49:05,479
Speaker 1: home to photograph Cochrane's bedridden wife in an attempt to

1861
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 1: embarrass the senator because he was living with another woman

1862
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:12,360
Speaker 1: while his wife for years was dealing with this health issue.

1863
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:16,559
Speaker 1: Four people ended up arrested. But the bigger deal of

1864
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:18,400
Speaker 1: this race is that this is think about it. It's

1865
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Tea Party was on the move. That wing

1866
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: of the party was on the move. Cochrane beat it

1867
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:31,599
Speaker 1: back barely having to use Democrats. Twenty sixteen, Donald Trump

1868
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 1: would get elected president. Looking back, here was one of

1869
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:39,800
Speaker 1: your canaries in the coal mine in twenty fourteen. Now

1870
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 1: I will there were a few honorable mentions campaigns that

1871
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:45,599
Speaker 1: didn't make my top five. I do want to mention

1872
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:48,200
Speaker 1: Blanche Bruce. He was elected to the Senate by the

1873
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 1: Mississippi Legislature in eighteen seventy four, year before the eighteen

1874
01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:55,640
Speaker 1: seventy five those eighteen seventy five reset elections. He was

1875
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:58,920
Speaker 1: the first African American elector to do a full Senate term,

1876
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:02,760
Speaker 1: and he was the first Black American to preside over

1877
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:06,840
Speaker 1: the United States Senate kirk Fordyce elected governor nineteen ninety one.

1878
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 1: He became the Mississippi's first Republican governor since reconstruction. He

1879
01:50:11,120 --> 01:50:13,240
Speaker 1: won with fifty point eight percent of the vote in

1880
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:17,320
Speaker 1: ninety one. By the way, twenty eighteen centate runoff was

1881
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:19,360
Speaker 1: a fascinating one because he had Sidney Hyde Smith and

1882
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:23,320
Speaker 1: Mike esb. The race was, you know, not a blowout,

1883
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:26,600
Speaker 1: fifty four to forty six, but whoever was going to

1884
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:28,880
Speaker 1: win was going to make history. Mike sb if he

1885
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:30,840
Speaker 1: had won, would have been the first black Senator since

1886
01:50:32,120 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 1: Blanche Bruce in Reconstruction, and Sydney Hyde Smith would turn

1887
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:37,840
Speaker 1: out to be the first woman ever elected to Congress

1888
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 1: in the state of Mississippi. And then, of course, there

1889
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 1: were there were two controversial flag referendums that really divided

1890
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:49,599
Speaker 1: the state. Two thousand and one, voters kept a Confederate

1891
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:52,760
Speaker 1: era flag by a landslide sixty four to thirty six,

1892
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 1: and yet in twenty twenty, voters adopted a new magnolia

1893
01:50:56,920 --> 01:51:00,640
Speaker 1: flag in a bigger landslide seventy three twenty seven. The

1894
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 1: same issue, but it was two very different Mississippis. And

1895
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I think it's a good way to end there. Two

1896
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: thousand and one told you that Mississippi wasn't ready to

1897
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:13,400
Speaker 1: move on from its past. By twenty twenty, Mississippi was

1898
01:51:13,439 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 1: ready to move on. So look, Mississippi's political history is

1899
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:19,920
Speaker 1: pretty clear. The elections of eighteen seventy five created a

1900
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:24,000
Speaker 1: system that lasted nearly a century. But the campaigns we

1901
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:27,800
Speaker 1: walked through show how that system slowly cracked, shifted, and

1902
01:51:27,880 --> 01:51:34,479
Speaker 1: eventually transformed from segregation to realignment to modern populism. It

1903
01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:37,800
Speaker 1: is worth noting Mississippi's election often foreshadow changes that later

1904
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:43,519
Speaker 1: appear across the country. Anyway, So there's my top five list.

1905
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 1: Let me go back through them one more time for

1906
01:51:47,200 --> 01:51:50,400
Speaker 1: the campaign geeks out there like me. Number one for

1907
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:55,360
Speaker 1: May fifty nine governor, the election of an avowed segregationist

1908
01:51:55,400 --> 01:52:00,240
Speaker 1: that ends up giving us the showdown at Ole, missy

1909
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:05,360
Speaker 1: eight Senate Pad Cochrane's shock election thanks to a third

1910
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:08,799
Speaker 1: party candidate that siphon votes away from the Democrat seventy

1911
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:13,680
Speaker 1: nine governor, which gave elected a Democrat who would transform

1912
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:18,280
Speaker 1: mississippis education system that is still paying dividends today, nineteen

1913
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:22,880
Speaker 1: ninety nine Governor. They're a weird electoral college system produces

1914
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 1: ends up being used by the legislature, and I think

1915
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 1: people were so grossed out by it that it was

1916
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:32,720
Speaker 1: like there was always it was the beginning of the

1917
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 1: end of that system. It took two decades later for

1918
01:52:35,400 --> 01:52:38,160
Speaker 1: it to be gone, but it was it would be gone.

1919
01:52:38,240 --> 01:52:40,120
Speaker 1: And then, of course number five on my list the

1920
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:43,320
Speaker 1: Senate Republican primary from twenty fourteen. If you don't lack

1921
01:52:43,360 --> 01:52:56,960
Speaker 1: my list, send me your thoughts, ask Chuck. All right,

1922
01:52:57,240 --> 01:52:59,400
Speaker 1: it is time for questions. A little ass check. In

1923
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:03,680
Speaker 1: the first one, it's perfect. It's almost a derivative. It says, hey,

1924
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:07,040
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the five most consequential Texas elections. Do you

1925
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:09,080
Speaker 1: have a list for New Jersey by any chance? And

1926
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:11,080
Speaker 1: I do. I'm not going to give you the full

1927
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:15,280
Speaker 1: list now, but needless to say, two that will definitely

1928
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:18,800
Speaker 1: be on this list are Bill Bradley's first race in

1929
01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:22,519
Speaker 1: seventy six. He knocked off an incumbent senator. It is

1930
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:26,799
Speaker 1: worth noting Harrison Williams, so that is one, the first

1931
01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 1: Tom Caine victory probably is going to get in there,

1932
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:35,200
Speaker 1: and the crazy Torrisselly replacement race right all the crazy

1933
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:39,400
Speaker 1: Turrisselly in Lautenberg and all of that business. So that's

1934
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: just a taste. There's a couple others that we get there.

1935
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:48,400
Speaker 1: I think the first Christie Race is probably going to

1936
01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:49,320
Speaker 1: make my list.

1937
01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 2: But.

1938
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,240
Speaker 1: It is you start. You know, Bill Bradley, by the way,

1939
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:55,680
Speaker 1: I have and I have another book that I've I

1940
01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:58,880
Speaker 1: have a lot of books I've never written, but I'll

1941
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:00,400
Speaker 1: tell you that this one is I can't believe they

1942
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:03,800
Speaker 1: didn't become President book. And there'd be like, I think

1943
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:05,960
Speaker 1: there's eight or ten people that are I can't believe

1944
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:09,479
Speaker 1: they never became president. Bill Bradley is one of them.

1945
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:13,559
Speaker 1: John Glenn is another one of them. We may put

1946
01:54:13,600 --> 01:54:16,800
Speaker 1: Romney on that list someday, right, we may put in

1947
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:21,599
Speaker 1: Let me think, who else that I can't believe they

1948
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 1: didn't become president? List? Right? Hillary Clinton one hundred years

1949
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:26,960
Speaker 1: from now, people may say she should be on that

1950
01:54:27,040 --> 01:54:32,000
Speaker 1: list as well. But Bill Bradley. I think what we

1951
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:35,920
Speaker 1: found out is Bill Bradley's resume was more charismatic than

1952
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 1: Bill Bradley himself. And I say that with love. I

1953
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,200
Speaker 1: know Senator Bradley a little bit. He was always couldn't

1954
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: have been more charming, more nice, but he was a

1955
01:54:45,160 --> 01:54:49,040
Speaker 1: guy that didn't didn't command a room in the way

1956
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:52,160
Speaker 1: that you would, and you just can't put your finger

1957
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:56,240
Speaker 1: on it. In some ways he was too cerebral, I think.

1958
01:54:56,760 --> 01:55:00,000
Speaker 1: But when you look at that resume, Princeton Rhodes Scholar,

1959
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,040
Speaker 1: our all time great New York Nick, all of that business, right,

1960
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:08,080
Speaker 1: he should have had all the markings of somebody that

1961
01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:10,840
Speaker 1: the country would want to be as the representative of

1962
01:55:10,880 --> 01:55:14,120
Speaker 1: America for the world. Right. John Glenn's same thing. But

1963
01:55:14,160 --> 01:55:18,320
Speaker 1: he also was a bit charismatically challenged at times. His

1964
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:21,960
Speaker 1: presidential hopes I've had some people say came to an

1965
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:24,800
Speaker 1: end even before he ever ran in eighty four when

1966
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:28,520
Speaker 1: he gave a lackluster keynote speech at a DNC convention.

1967
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 1: I believe it was in seventy six, So anyway, but yes,

1968
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 1: I'll have more on New Jersey as we get closer,

1969
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:37,000
Speaker 1: But you got to let me roll these out a

1970
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:39,839
Speaker 1: week at a time, so give you a little taste. Obviously,

1971
01:55:40,200 --> 01:55:42,520
Speaker 1: tors Elly, right, all things ports are going to be there,

1972
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 1: the Torch Song trilogy as we used to call it

1973
01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:48,840
Speaker 1: back in the Hotline days, the crazy Lotenberg stuff, all

1974
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:56,320
Speaker 1: of that. But in fairness to Jersey, I would argue

1975
01:55:56,320 --> 01:55:59,440
Speaker 1: it's great characters have all been in the last forty years,

1976
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 1: fewer great characters in the first fifty years. But I

1977
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:04,880
Speaker 1: know my friend Bill Baroni will have a lot of

1978
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:08,240
Speaker 1: thoughts on this, and I have to finish consulting with him.

1979
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:10,760
Speaker 1: And I know you're listening, Bill, and so get your

1980
01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna have a lot of opinions about this.

1981
01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:16,240
Speaker 1: So we'll get that going, all right, And I promise

1982
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:19,720
Speaker 1: that's coming soon. Next question comes from Don L. Saganaw Texas. Hey,

1983
01:56:19,760 --> 01:56:22,000
Speaker 1: check appreciate listening to the podcast on Monday mornings while

1984
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,600
Speaker 1: I try to reconnect with the brain cells necessary to

1985
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 1: serve my bride coffee in bed. Well, good for you,

1986
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:30,840
Speaker 1: coffee in bed. You're a better husband than me. As

1987
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:33,320
Speaker 1: I recall from my Texas public school education background, the

1988
01:56:33,400 --> 01:56:35,920
Speaker 1: last time the US declared war was in nineteen forty one.

1989
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:37,960
Speaker 1: One could argue that America has gone to war multiple

1990
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:41,720
Speaker 1: times since that time without declaring it. Since only Congress

1991
01:56:41,760 --> 01:56:43,400
Speaker 1: is the power to declare war, could you explain how

1992
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:46,760
Speaker 1: this continues to happen? Well, you've got this idea that

1993
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:50,760
Speaker 1: in these you know that these are I guess you

1994
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:53,760
Speaker 1: could say that they are abusing the part of the

1995
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 1: Constitution about a president having a certain amount of authority

1996
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,240
Speaker 1: to quote, defend the interests in the United States without

1997
01:57:02,240 --> 01:57:07,400
Speaker 1: having to go to Congress. Were we ever fighting Vietnam

1998
01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:10,120
Speaker 1: or were we fighting the Russians and the Chinese who

1999
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:15,480
Speaker 1: were helping the North Vietnamese. So there's that situation. Now,

2000
01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:20,200
Speaker 1: Congress did authorize the use of force in Iraq both times,

2001
01:57:21,520 --> 01:57:25,720
Speaker 1: So no, we never declared war on those countries, but

2002
01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 1: at least there was an authorization of use of force there.

2003
01:57:30,440 --> 01:57:33,440
Speaker 1: But look, your larger point is the more important one,

2004
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:37,280
Speaker 1: which is the inability of Congress to do its job,

2005
01:57:37,400 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 1: to assert its authority. And I think in some ways

2006
01:57:44,920 --> 01:57:47,040
Speaker 1: I choose to be I choose to look at the

2007
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 1: Trump presidency as a necessary MRI. I think it has

2008
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:55,160
Speaker 1: been an incredible MRI. Right. We have learned about a

2009
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:59,240
Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of entities, a lot of institutions,

2010
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:03,160
Speaker 1: right when tested by Trump, which one of them who

2011
01:58:03,200 --> 01:58:06,200
Speaker 1: could stand tall and who would fold like a cheap suit?

2012
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:10,960
Speaker 1: And I do think you have Rand Paul and a

2013
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:16,080
Speaker 1: handful of other Republicans wanting to reassert congressional authority. I

2014
01:58:16,600 --> 01:58:21,400
Speaker 1: there's this could be the silver lining of this you know,

2015
01:58:21,480 --> 01:58:26,080
Speaker 1: him stumbling into this Iran conflict, which may not have

2016
01:58:26,360 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 1: a clean ending anytime soon. Right, we may pull back

2017
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:32,280
Speaker 1: on how much we bomb the country, but it doesn't

2018
01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:35,839
Speaker 1: feel like what's been started is going to easily be stopped.

2019
01:58:37,640 --> 01:58:40,680
Speaker 1: That you will have a different type of Congress and

2020
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:43,760
Speaker 1: members of Congress who decide that they will read the

2021
01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:48,800
Speaker 1: Constitution and understand what Article one of powers mean for them.

2022
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:52,560
Speaker 1: That's the that is my hope of what is the

2023
01:58:52,600 --> 01:58:55,920
Speaker 1: silver lining of what has been this? We now understand

2024
01:58:56,000 --> 01:59:00,280
Speaker 1: why why did the founders want these constraints around a

2025
01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:04,919
Speaker 1: run potential for a runaway executive? Just that to stop

2026
01:59:05,400 --> 01:59:08,440
Speaker 1: the potential of a runaway executive, Right, the whole point

2027
01:59:08,520 --> 01:59:14,360
Speaker 1: was to prevent a rogue monarch. Shall we say, we

2028
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:17,720
Speaker 1: have all the tools to prevent this, we just have

2029
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:23,080
Speaker 1: let our ability to use those tools atrophy. Maybe maybe

2030
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:29,440
Speaker 1: this decision to do what he's doing in Iran will

2031
01:59:29,560 --> 01:59:34,280
Speaker 1: finally be the line that's crossed that gets more members

2032
01:59:34,280 --> 01:59:39,080
Speaker 1: of Congress realizing they have a large responsibility here and

2033
01:59:39,120 --> 01:59:42,000
Speaker 1: they need to get their act together. But it starts

2034
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:43,280
Speaker 1: with a speaker. You've got right now, you got a

2035
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:45,400
Speaker 1: speaker in Mike Johnson, who has no idea what he's doing.

2036
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:50,919
Speaker 1: He's a spino right speaker name only Donald Trump. Essentially,

2037
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: you know, he's at the whims of whatever Trump wants.

2038
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:57,160
Speaker 1: So he's a week speaker. We've had a series of

2039
01:59:57,200 --> 01:59:59,320
Speaker 1: week Pelosi was a strong speaker, but she was a

2040
01:59:59,320 --> 02:00:03,560
Speaker 1: bit too different democratic presidents. You know, this is only

2041
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:07,560
Speaker 1: going to work is if the next speaker, when their

2042
02:00:07,680 --> 02:00:12,720
Speaker 1: party is in the White House, if they assert congressional

2043
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:17,880
Speaker 1: authority over partisan concerns. And we haven't had a speaker

2044
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,520
Speaker 1: do that in my lifetime. All right, Next question comes

2045
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:25,440
Speaker 1: from Donovan, PG County, Maryland. Go Army beat Navy. Woo?

2046
02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 1: Can you say that in Maryland? I feel like we're Maryland,

2047
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of I treat Navy as semi

2048
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,560
Speaker 1: home home time root form and all the conference stuff,

2049
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, is kind of a local ish team, right,

2050
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 1: Annapolis is local enough for me. But anyway, anyway, good

2051
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,560
Speaker 1: for you, Donovan. I think I know, I think I

2052
02:00:46,600 --> 02:00:49,640
Speaker 1: know which Donovan this is, but I'll I'll be careful,

2053
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:54,800
Speaker 1: so I'll say go Army in this one, he says, Chuck.

2054
02:00:54,840 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 1: Given the significant erosion of America standing on the world

2055
02:00:57,760 --> 02:00:59,360
Speaker 1: stage in recent years, what do you think it will

2056
02:00:59,400 --> 02:01:02,320
Speaker 1: realistic take both from our next president and from US

2057
02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:04,360
Speaker 1: as a country to rebuild the trust and credibility needed

2058
02:01:04,360 --> 02:01:06,600
Speaker 1: to reclaim our role as global leader that kind of

2059
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:09,640
Speaker 1: restoration even possible anymore, or as the window for America

2060
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:11,520
Speaker 1: to be seen as the anchor of the international order

2061
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:15,320
Speaker 1: permanently closed. In also seriousness, Donovan, I don't think anything's

2062
02:01:15,320 --> 02:01:18,440
Speaker 1: permanently closed. But I think it's going to be years

2063
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 1: before we're seen as the credible leader here. It's going

2064
02:01:23,360 --> 02:01:29,800
Speaker 1: to take presidents of let's just take our relationship with

2065
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:33,480
Speaker 1: Europe before Europe fully trusts America again to be its

2066
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:39,520
Speaker 1: sort of security umbrella and be willing to sort of

2067
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:46,080
Speaker 1: restore the sort of Cold War order of sorts. They're

2068
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:50,000
Speaker 1: going to have to see us have a succession of

2069
02:01:50,040 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 1: presidents regardless of whether they're Democrats are Republicans, but basically

2070
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:59,520
Speaker 1: two presidents in a row from both parties that treat

2071
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:03,320
Speaker 1: Europe or the respect, treat our allies with respect, don't

2072
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:06,680
Speaker 1: want to empire, build, don't want to do I mean,

2073
02:02:06,720 --> 02:02:10,000
Speaker 1: and so, so I think this is you know, we're

2074
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:12,280
Speaker 1: at least a couple of decades away. Look, a crisis

2075
02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:15,600
Speaker 1: can change things overnight. Right, America still has resources that

2076
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:19,720
Speaker 1: many other countries don't, but it's going to take us.

2077
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:22,640
Speaker 1: We're going to have to do more to win back

2078
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:24,640
Speaker 1: the hearts and minds of the world. Right when there's

2079
02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:27,879
Speaker 1: a natural disaster, we better always be the first boats

2080
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:30,000
Speaker 1: there and the first you know, it's going to take

2081
02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:36,560
Speaker 1: a lot more international largess, the restoration of USAID, the

2082
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:41,120
Speaker 1: restoration of soft power, but none of that happens overnight,

2083
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:46,000
Speaker 1: so we're sadly probably a generation away from that. The

2084
02:02:46,040 --> 02:02:49,560
Speaker 1: next president can begin the healing. The president after that

2085
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:51,600
Speaker 1: can do it, but you know, it's it's sort of

2086
02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:59,520
Speaker 1: you know it, I don't know. Let you know, you can.

2087
02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:03,600
Speaker 1: You can flip the switch on the treatment of African

2088
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:08,240
Speaker 1: American voters in nineteen sixty four, but it really took

2089
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: another thirty or forty years before there was full trust

2090
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:18,720
Speaker 1: full So it just takes time. And on this one,

2091
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:23,080
Speaker 1: it's going to take the American public electing presidents of

2092
02:03:23,200 --> 02:03:28,320
Speaker 1: both parties in successive elections who behave essentially the same

2093
02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:31,400
Speaker 1: way internationally, not necessarily with the same philosophies, but that

2094
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:34,840
Speaker 1: we treat our allies with respect, that we just the

2095
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:41,720
Speaker 1: basic things that Trump has thrown away. Look, I kind

2096
02:03:41,720 --> 02:03:43,520
Speaker 1: of think we're going to need it by necessity to

2097
02:03:43,520 --> 02:03:45,600
Speaker 1: try to restore these things. It's going to it's better

2098
02:03:45,600 --> 02:03:49,280
Speaker 1: for our security and it's better for our economy. But

2099
02:03:50,400 --> 02:03:54,280
Speaker 1: thanks for asking pretty much the hardest question somebody has asked.

2100
02:03:54,280 --> 02:03:56,280
Speaker 1: But like I said, I think I know who this

2101
02:03:56,360 --> 02:04:04,000
Speaker 1: is and I appreciate the curveball. Next question comes from

2102
02:04:04,080 --> 02:04:07,000
Speaker 1: Roger and Farmington, Minnesota. Chuck, will abortion emerges a national

2103
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:08,880
Speaker 1: issue in the twenty twenty six midterms or his jobs

2104
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:10,600
Speaker 1: effectively taking it off the table and made it a

2105
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:16,680
Speaker 1: state by state issue for the next generation. I don't think.

2106
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:20,600
Speaker 1: I still think that I'm gonna stand by a prediction

2107
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:23,160
Speaker 1: I made five years ago that I think but by

2108
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:28,640
Speaker 1: the end of the decade, Congress will cad afiro and

2109
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:31,920
Speaker 1: I think if Democrats get the majority in both the

2110
02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:43,560
Speaker 1: Senate and the House, they'll do this. And if they don't,

2111
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:46,360
Speaker 1: and if they don't try, I think they could pay

2112
02:04:46,360 --> 02:04:53,920
Speaker 1: a political price on that front. But I think with

2113
02:04:54,080 --> 02:04:56,520
Speaker 1: so many other issues, you know, abortion will come back

2114
02:04:56,520 --> 02:04:59,760
Speaker 1: to being an issue when the you know cultural issues,

2115
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 1: and abortion is it's a healthcare issue, but it's also

2116
02:05:05,280 --> 02:05:09,880
Speaker 1: a cultural issue, and it's Also, you know, those issues

2117
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:13,840
Speaker 1: rise up when the economy is healthy, those issues get

2118
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:17,080
Speaker 1: pushed down when the economy is unhealthy. And this is

2119
02:05:17,120 --> 02:05:19,400
Speaker 1: an unhealthy economy, and there's a lot of fear out

2120
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:25,040
Speaker 1: there about economic well being, job displacement. So while I

2121
02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:31,120
Speaker 1: expect abortion to be used in a handful of campaigns,

2122
02:05:32,320 --> 02:05:35,320
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a big issue in these midterms.

2123
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:40,120
Speaker 1: Across the board, We're not seeing as many referendums and

2124
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:44,680
Speaker 1: things like that. But I think this becomes an interest

2125
02:05:45,320 --> 02:05:48,960
Speaker 1: if Democrats win both the House and the Senate. How

2126
02:05:48,960 --> 02:05:52,200
Speaker 1: aggressive do they get and trying to codify Row? And

2127
02:05:53,680 --> 02:05:57,720
Speaker 1: is there a version of codifying ROW that can get

2128
02:05:58,040 --> 02:06:01,720
Speaker 1: whatever number of republic consenators they need. Let's say they

2129
02:06:02,080 --> 02:06:04,480
Speaker 1: let's say they have a majority by two seats, Let's

2130
02:06:04,520 --> 02:06:06,240
Speaker 1: say it's the fifty two forty eight. Can they find

2131
02:06:06,280 --> 02:06:09,080
Speaker 1: eight Republicans to go along with them on a version

2132
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:11,680
Speaker 1: that codifies Row that says has a you know that

2133
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:15,800
Speaker 1: gets Lisa Murkowskian board, because she'll be there. Do you

2134
02:06:15,840 --> 02:06:18,520
Speaker 1: get do you get something that gets a hand a

2135
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:25,240
Speaker 1: handful of some of the I don't know, or do

2136
02:06:25,320 --> 02:06:29,000
Speaker 1: we see the filibuster gone? And I think it's very

2137
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:32,720
Speaker 1: possible that if you have a younger set of Senate leaders,

2138
02:06:33,640 --> 02:06:36,560
Speaker 1: we may see the legislative philibuster go. Regardless of whether

2139
02:06:36,600 --> 02:06:38,480
Speaker 1: it's a deer or in our administration, it does feel

2140
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:42,000
Speaker 1: as if right the momentum Republicans had to almost get

2141
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:44,920
Speaker 1: rid of it, the momentum Democrats had to almost get

2142
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:48,840
Speaker 1: rid of it. It feels like that sooner rather than later,

2143
02:06:49,800 --> 02:06:52,320
Speaker 1: we're going to have a change in the filibuster rule

2144
02:06:52,360 --> 02:06:59,200
Speaker 1: that gives Democrats a shot at codifying Row, which is again,

2145
02:06:59,280 --> 02:07:03,560
Speaker 1: what would I think think the simplest, most straightforward way

2146
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:07,800
Speaker 1: they could go codifies Row into law. I think they

2147
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:12,760
Speaker 1: could find eight Republican senators on that. Next question comes

2148
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:15,040
Speaker 1: from a mirror from Denver, and he writes, hey really

2149
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:18,160
Speaker 1: appreciate the new format and especially enjoyed your two twenty

2150
02:07:18,200 --> 02:07:20,840
Speaker 1: three episode Your time Machine. Segment of how how Hitler

2151
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:23,840
Speaker 1: used legal processes to consolidate power was compelling, but it

2152
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,080
Speaker 1: left me wondering how you square that with your critique

2153
02:07:26,080 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 1: of democratic legislatures pushing back against red state redistrict efforts.

2154
02:07:29,520 --> 02:07:31,840
Speaker 1: If a party sees authoritarianism coming, is it wrong to

2155
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:34,360
Speaker 1: use every tool available, even if it bends norms to

2156
02:07:34,400 --> 02:07:36,040
Speaker 1: try to stop it. How should we think about the

2157
02:07:36,120 --> 02:07:38,840
Speaker 1: leaders today who use power aggressively to prevent something worse

2158
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:41,840
Speaker 1: down the line? Best a Mire from Denver. You know,

2159
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:43,560
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this a lot. I've got to

2160
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:47,120
Speaker 1: vote in this election in April. They're trying to redo

2161
02:07:47,200 --> 02:07:49,360
Speaker 1: the constitution here in Virginia to allow them to re

2162
02:07:49,400 --> 02:07:51,800
Speaker 1: redistrict in the middle and not use the fair district

2163
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:57,480
Speaker 1: the fair district parameters that were passed into the state's constitution,

2164
02:07:59,080 --> 02:08:02,040
Speaker 1: and I thought I'd use this. I've actually been this

2165
02:08:02,120 --> 02:08:04,080
Speaker 1: is something I meant to say earlier in the podcast,

2166
02:08:04,120 --> 02:08:06,920
Speaker 1: and this is actually a good way for me to

2167
02:08:06,960 --> 02:08:09,480
Speaker 1: bring them to close the podcast with it, because I

2168
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:14,440
Speaker 1: do think I I want to talk about the so

2169
02:08:14,520 --> 02:08:19,400
Speaker 1: called Save Election Bill that Republicans are trying to pass.

2170
02:08:19,480 --> 02:08:21,360
Speaker 1: As I've said to you before, it is an unserious

2171
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:26,200
Speaker 1: attempt at election reform, a serious If Republicans cared just

2172
02:08:26,240 --> 02:08:30,000
Speaker 1: about voter ID, they could get voter ID passed if

2173
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:32,040
Speaker 1: they just made it standalone. Voter I D not voter

2174
02:08:32,080 --> 02:08:34,360
Speaker 1: ID that says every married woman has to get their

2175
02:08:34,440 --> 02:08:37,200
Speaker 1: name changed in order for their voter registration roles to match.

2176
02:08:37,480 --> 02:08:39,240
Speaker 1: Right where you have to go back to the DMV

2177
02:08:39,360 --> 02:08:43,480
Speaker 1: and all, I mean, the ridiculous parts of the bill

2178
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:47,800
Speaker 1: that some are pushing with birth certificates and citizenship checks

2179
02:08:47,800 --> 02:08:52,840
Speaker 1: and all of this nonsense, you know, is not a

2180
02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:56,120
Speaker 1: serious It shows you that this is not a serious issue.

2181
02:08:56,120 --> 02:08:59,640
Speaker 1: That if anything, my great fear is that Donald Trump,

2182
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:05,600
Speaker 1: he is advocating for an unrealistic election bill, which he

2183
02:09:05,720 --> 02:09:09,040
Speaker 1: himself has said if they pass it, Democrats will never

2184
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:11,840
Speaker 1: he hopes it means Democrats will never win an election

2185
02:09:11,920 --> 02:09:16,600
Speaker 1: for another fifty years, which you know kind of says

2186
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:20,160
Speaker 1: the quiet part out loud, right, they think they've not

2187
02:09:20,840 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 1: put together a bill that makes elections fair for the country,

2188
02:09:24,480 --> 02:09:26,720
Speaker 1: that they're trying to put together a bill that they think,

2189
02:09:26,760 --> 02:09:32,480
Speaker 1: in their minds creates an uneven playing field advantage to

2190
02:09:32,520 --> 02:09:35,720
Speaker 1: the Republicans. Now, the irony to this is one I

2191
02:09:35,760 --> 02:09:39,040
Speaker 1: do think if they pass this restrictive measures, Democrats would

2192
02:09:39,080 --> 02:09:42,360
Speaker 1: more likely follow all get all their paperwork in order

2193
02:09:42,640 --> 02:09:45,520
Speaker 1: before a lot of Trump's voters would On this front,

2194
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:50,280
Speaker 1: We've seen this, right, Democrats pay more attention to win

2195
02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:52,760
Speaker 1: special elections are these days, and all of that. So

2196
02:09:53,560 --> 02:09:55,640
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at sort of conforming to

2197
02:09:55,680 --> 02:09:58,839
Speaker 1: the rules and all that. I think that the irony

2198
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 1: is that the save AC pass. I think it would

2199
02:10:01,720 --> 02:10:05,360
Speaker 1: hurt Republican turnout more than it would hurt Democratic turnout.

2200
02:10:07,240 --> 02:10:09,720
Speaker 1: But you know, in the same way that Democrats weren't

2201
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:12,520
Speaker 1: serious about their election reform bill at HR one because

2202
02:10:12,520 --> 02:10:16,040
Speaker 1: they threw in stuff like publicly funding congressional elections and

2203
02:10:16,200 --> 02:10:20,440
Speaker 1: some things that just don't have majority support in the country,

2204
02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:24,120
Speaker 1: let alone majority support in the Senate. You know, it

2205
02:10:24,160 --> 02:10:26,600
Speaker 1: was a messaging bill, right it was. They wanted a

2206
02:10:26,640 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 1: talking point, and it's clearly Republicans this is a messaging bill.

2207
02:10:30,040 --> 02:10:32,840
Speaker 1: He wants a talking point. And I fear what Trump

2208
02:10:32,880 --> 02:10:35,680
Speaker 1: really wants is a rationale not to accept the results

2209
02:10:35,680 --> 02:10:40,000
Speaker 1: of the midterms. Even when I say not accept the

2210
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:42,600
Speaker 1: results of the midterms, there's nothing he can do to

2211
02:10:42,640 --> 02:10:47,840
Speaker 1: prevent the swearing in of the new Congress. And there

2212
02:10:47,960 --> 02:10:50,440
Speaker 1: is one scenario I fear that a Speaker of the

2213
02:10:50,480 --> 02:10:53,560
Speaker 1: House couldn't outgoing speaker of their House could insert themselves

2214
02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:56,720
Speaker 1: in a situation, but only if the House majorities were

2215
02:10:56,760 --> 02:11:01,800
Speaker 1: really narrow. I doubt I think if Democrat that's right now,

2216
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:03,440
Speaker 1: if the electional health to day, they'd win the House

2217
02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:06,080
Speaker 1: by a big enough margin that Mike Johnson couldn't do

2218
02:11:06,120 --> 02:11:10,120
Speaker 1: anything to mess with it. But if Donald Trump wants

2219
02:11:10,160 --> 02:11:13,680
Speaker 1: to soothe himself by maybe he'll blame his own party

2220
02:11:13,720 --> 02:11:16,440
Speaker 1: for not passing the bill and say, you know, and

2221
02:11:16,640 --> 02:11:21,360
Speaker 1: you know, everything is usually about deflecting blame for himself.

2222
02:11:22,840 --> 02:11:26,520
Speaker 1: So I think he sees this save act as a

2223
02:11:26,520 --> 02:11:30,680
Speaker 1: way to have a built in excuse for why his

2224
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:33,960
Speaker 1: party's not going to do well in the midterms, And

2225
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:35,520
Speaker 1: I do think he may use it as a way

2226
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:39,120
Speaker 1: not to accept the results in his own mind. Again,

2227
02:11:39,880 --> 02:11:41,720
Speaker 1: isn't going to stop people from getting sworn in. It

2228
02:11:41,760 --> 02:11:44,280
Speaker 1: isn't going to stop Democrats if they end up winning

2229
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:46,440
Speaker 1: control the House in the Senate, from getting control the

2230
02:11:46,440 --> 02:11:50,320
Speaker 1: House in the Senate. But as we know, it's important

2231
02:11:50,320 --> 02:11:53,840
Speaker 1: to him for him to create a fantasy world, you know,

2232
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:56,480
Speaker 1: this fantasy world that he is that he won somehow

2233
02:11:56,520 --> 02:11:59,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty because he doesn't want to count mail

2234
02:11:59,480 --> 02:12:02,560
Speaker 1: in ballots during a pandemic, and that he you know,

2235
02:12:02,600 --> 02:12:06,040
Speaker 1: so he likes to build these mythologies in order for

2236
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:09,480
Speaker 1: him to Maybe it's a self soothing mechanism. Maybe this

2237
02:12:09,520 --> 02:12:11,840
Speaker 1: is what he does instead of therapy. I don't know.

2238
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:15,080
Speaker 1: What goes inside his head, but he can never he

2239
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:17,880
Speaker 1: is so obsessed with this idea never admit defeat and

2240
02:12:17,920 --> 02:12:21,000
Speaker 1: never admit you've lost, and never admit you've made a mistake,

2241
02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:26,120
Speaker 1: and never apologize, all of that sort of dumb advice

2242
02:12:26,240 --> 02:12:28,840
Speaker 1: that salespeople used to get back in the fifties. Right,

2243
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:30,320
Speaker 1: These are like, you know, never take no for an

2244
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:36,000
Speaker 1: answer type of mindset. And that's fine if you're trying

2245
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:41,480
Speaker 1: to sell property. It becomes gas lighting when you're trying

2246
02:12:41,560 --> 02:12:48,000
Speaker 1: to sell it politically on this front. Now, as for

2247
02:12:48,040 --> 02:12:53,000
Speaker 1: your specific question about the Democrats, here's this look. I

2248
02:12:53,040 --> 02:12:56,200
Speaker 1: just think this re redistricting decision by the Democrats to

2249
02:12:56,200 --> 02:12:58,640
Speaker 1: fight fire with fire. It's going to help them in

2250
02:12:58,680 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 1: the short term, but I don't think they ever would

2251
02:13:00,720 --> 02:13:02,960
Speaker 1: have needed it. They could have kept their high ground

2252
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:05,480
Speaker 1: and probably still won't control the House. They could have

2253
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:08,680
Speaker 1: kept their high ground and probably still watched Texas do

2254
02:13:08,760 --> 02:13:12,640
Speaker 1: a dummy mander. But now Democrats have given up whatever

2255
02:13:12,680 --> 02:13:15,400
Speaker 1: reform credentials they had been developing over the last fifteen

2256
02:13:15,440 --> 02:13:18,320
Speaker 1: years by being the party in favor of quote fair districts.

2257
02:13:18,760 --> 02:13:20,600
Speaker 1: They're no longer a party that's in favor of this

2258
02:13:21,200 --> 02:13:23,880
Speaker 1: and I don't accept the premise of what when you

2259
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:26,520
Speaker 1: have to suspend a constitutional rule in order to do

2260
02:13:27,200 --> 02:13:30,400
Speaker 1: that is a slippery slope. And that's the issue I

2261
02:13:30,440 --> 02:13:31,960
Speaker 1: have with this. It's a slippery slope. But let me

2262
02:13:31,960 --> 02:13:39,040
Speaker 1: make another point. Fair districts means you have the opera,

2263
02:13:39,160 --> 02:13:44,360
Speaker 1: you will see a different type of person elected. Maybe

2264
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:49,080
Speaker 1: someone who's center right might win in a closely contested

2265
02:13:49,120 --> 02:13:52,840
Speaker 1: Republican leaning seat, and maybe that member of Congress is

2266
02:13:52,880 --> 02:13:55,600
Speaker 1: a Don Bacon type and stands up to the Republican

2267
02:13:55,640 --> 02:13:59,880
Speaker 1: Party in a moment that it's necessary to have bipartisan pushback.

2268
02:14:01,680 --> 02:14:04,600
Speaker 1: And now what you're going to do is you're going

2269
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:07,280
Speaker 1: to create a situation where the only Republicans that get

2270
02:14:07,280 --> 02:14:12,080
Speaker 1: elected in Virginia are going to be somebody who's pretty

2271
02:14:12,080 --> 02:14:16,560
Speaker 1: out of the mainstream. And you know, I fear what

2272
02:14:16,600 --> 02:14:19,200
Speaker 1: we're happening here is across the board, we're going to

2273
02:14:19,240 --> 02:14:24,760
Speaker 1: get fewer sort of incrementalists, you know, the pragmatists in Congress,

2274
02:14:24,760 --> 02:14:28,520
Speaker 1: and more ideologues. So I don't think it's I mean,

2275
02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:30,680
Speaker 1: the whole point of fair districts is to try to

2276
02:14:32,280 --> 02:14:36,240
Speaker 1: have districts that are more representative of the larger pragmatic

2277
02:14:36,320 --> 02:14:43,480
Speaker 1: majority that is in America, and so I can't I

2278
02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:50,520
Speaker 1: understand the reaction. I understand, and if you're a hardcore partisan,

2279
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:52,720
Speaker 1: then yes, this feels like the right thing to do.

2280
02:14:54,680 --> 02:14:57,480
Speaker 1: But this feels like the law of unattended consequences is

2281
02:14:57,520 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 1: going to bite the party in the ass here on this,

2282
02:15:00,840 --> 02:15:03,440
Speaker 1: and I think they are going to regret losing the

2283
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:06,760
Speaker 1: high ground on the reform issue. This is why I

2284
02:15:06,760 --> 02:15:11,320
Speaker 1: think I think very highly of these independent candidacies in Nebraska,

2285
02:15:11,400 --> 02:15:15,240
Speaker 1: in Montana, the new one in California with Kevin Kyleie,

2286
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:19,960
Speaker 1: a former Republican congressman, dropping the party label. I just

2287
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:24,160
Speaker 1: I think all you're doing is giving more credibility to

2288
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:28,880
Speaker 1: those that rip on both parties. Democrats had higher ground

2289
02:15:29,000 --> 02:15:33,280
Speaker 1: on the reform issue when it came to elections. Doing

2290
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:37,240
Speaker 1: all of this fighting fire with fire just partisanizes it all.

2291
02:15:38,280 --> 02:15:41,160
Speaker 1: And I think, you know this idea that, oh, it's

2292
02:15:41,240 --> 02:15:44,640
Speaker 1: temporary and we'll come back and do it. Well, politicians

2293
02:15:44,640 --> 02:15:47,400
Speaker 1: don't have the trust of the public, and how often

2294
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:49,160
Speaker 1: do they come back and do something. I'm not saying

2295
02:15:49,200 --> 02:15:52,760
Speaker 1: they won't, I'm no, you know, but I have to

2296
02:15:52,840 --> 02:15:58,800
Speaker 1: tell you recent history tells me that once parties see

2297
02:15:58,840 --> 02:16:02,320
Speaker 1: no penalty for give up something They're not going to

2298
02:16:02,440 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 1: somehow voluntarily, right. Do we really think Virginia Democrats, if

2299
02:16:09,440 --> 02:16:11,760
Speaker 1: they have a nine to two or ten to one advantage,

2300
02:16:12,040 --> 02:16:15,360
Speaker 1: are going to want to voluntarily give back that advantage.

2301
02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 1: Prove me wrong. I hope to be proven wrong. I'll

2302
02:16:23,680 --> 02:16:27,080
Speaker 1: eat whatever crow a Democrat wants to feed me on this.

2303
02:16:28,240 --> 02:16:31,600
Speaker 1: But I think that I just I don't. I think

2304
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:34,120
Speaker 1: this is a huge mistake. And I think this is

2305
02:16:34,160 --> 02:16:38,800
Speaker 1: why there's so much energy with more and more voters

2306
02:16:38,879 --> 02:16:43,080
Speaker 1: looking for an alternative to both parties these days, and

2307
02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:46,240
Speaker 1: in this case, this is Democrats help accelerate. Donald Trump

2308
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:50,920
Speaker 1: has been an accelerant on the right, fighting this fighting

2309
02:16:50,920 --> 02:16:54,959
Speaker 1: fire with fire business might end up being an unintended

2310
02:16:54,959 --> 02:17:01,000
Speaker 1: consequence ancelerant of this movement of center left voters as well.

2311
02:17:01,080 --> 02:17:05,000
Speaker 1: All right with that, but I'd love to I'm still

2312
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:07,760
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I'm closing being shell shocked by the

2313
02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:14,560
Speaker 1: bam out of bio eighty three point of all the

2314
02:17:14,680 --> 02:17:19,160
Speaker 1: NBA players, where would bam out of bio have been

2315
02:17:19,240 --> 02:17:24,440
Speaker 1: on your list of NBA players most likely to score

2316
02:17:24,520 --> 02:17:27,640
Speaker 1: more points in a game than Kobe Bryant's eighty one.

2317
02:17:27,800 --> 02:17:28,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're ever going to get to

2318
02:17:28,959 --> 02:17:32,680
Speaker 1: the damn Wilt Chamberlain one hundred moment, but tell me

2319
02:17:32,800 --> 02:17:35,560
Speaker 1: there is no chance shoot. Even on the Heat, Tyler

2320
02:17:35,640 --> 02:17:39,080
Speaker 1: Hero would probably be considered more likely to get to

2321
02:17:39,080 --> 02:17:42,000
Speaker 1: top eighty one points. Then Bam out of Baio, who,

2322
02:17:42,040 --> 02:17:43,879
Speaker 1: by the way, got seven three pointers according to the

2323
02:17:43,879 --> 02:17:47,680
Speaker 1: box score, but he sort of did it the Wilt

2324
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:51,000
Speaker 1: Chamberlain way right. Sure, twenty one of his eighty three

2325
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 1: came from the three point line, but sixty two sixty

2326
02:17:57,800 --> 02:18:05,040
Speaker 1: two from two points. Now, imagine Bam out of Bio

2327
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:08,160
Speaker 1: next to Jannis. Sorry. You know, the Heat is a

2328
02:18:08,200 --> 02:18:10,640
Speaker 1: team that I you know, I jump on the Heat's

2329
02:18:10,680 --> 02:18:13,760
Speaker 1: bandwagon when they're good as a as a Miami native,

2330
02:18:13,800 --> 02:18:16,200
Speaker 1: even though they really, they really weren't much of a

2331
02:18:16,240 --> 02:18:19,600
Speaker 1: franchise when I you know, they'd only been born about

2332
02:18:19,600 --> 02:18:22,440
Speaker 1: a year before I graduated high school, or two years

2333
02:18:22,440 --> 02:18:25,880
Speaker 1: before I graduated. But you know, I want the Heat

2334
02:18:25,879 --> 02:18:30,600
Speaker 1: to succeed. I love Spoe, so anyway, I'm happy for

2335
02:18:30,720 --> 02:18:35,640
Speaker 1: Bam the sneaky Heat man. They can be. They're going

2336
02:18:35,680 --> 02:18:39,920
Speaker 1: to be a joyous pain in the ass to the

2337
02:18:39,920 --> 02:18:42,600
Speaker 1: rest of the eavestring conference in the playoffs, and that's

2338
02:18:42,600 --> 02:18:44,800
Speaker 1: when I enjoy rooting for the Heat the most. All

2339
02:18:44,920 --> 02:18:47,000
Speaker 1: right with that, I'll see in twenty four hours. Thanks

2340
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:47,520
Speaker 1: for listening.