WEBVTT - The Investigation 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.200 How Deep does a Mother's Love Run? Now streaming only 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.800 on Hulu. Experience a Race against Time by four mothers 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.039 who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.000 old son and took him out of the country. This 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.040 was a mother's worst nightmare, and we'll stop at nothing. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.239 I knew something bad act for the children day Love. 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.079 I was so scared, and that's when all hell breaks loose. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.800 Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know you mess with 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.680 the wrong mother. Now streaming only on Hulu. Search Mother 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:34.960 Undercover only on CNN. See It Loud The History of 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.479 Black Television of five part docuseries celebrating the achievements of 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:44.239 black actors and creators, examining the historical impacts black culture 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.760 has on all culture. See It Loud explores the best 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:54.480 history of black television through iconic performances and sitcoms, comedy, drama, unscripted, variety, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.400 and sci fi. Premiering Sunday, July ninth at nine pm. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.280 He'll forget about the video game you gave him on 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.040 his birthday. Wow, Thanks Grandpa. But he'll never forget how 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.960 you invested in his future with the unstap Wow. Thanks Grandpa. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.000 The unstap makes it easy for grandparents and family friends 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.400 to give funds to a child's investment account for a 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.039 limited time. Download the unst stapp and use the code 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.200 I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a fifty 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.480 dollar bonus when you find your account. That's code I 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.320 heart fifty when you sign up at un est dot 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.360 COO for fifty dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.080 unest dot coo. How long was Neil Armstrong actually on 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.040 the Moon? When did Europe start speaking English? Did Marco 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.280 Polo really go to China? Curiosity Stream is the streaming 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.520 service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.440 What's the real story behind the Mona Lisa, We've got that. 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.560 What caused the collapse of Rome? We know? Where? Did 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.560 we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? Come find out? From Egypt 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:57.280 to Weinstein. Curiosity Stream is the place for history with monthly, annual, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.320 and bundled plans. Find one for you at curiosity stream 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.920 dot com. Welcome to the Piked and Massacre, a production 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:09.720 of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. It's been one year since 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.079 eight members of the Roden family were found murdered in 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.000 Pike County. Now, surviving members of the family have released 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.400 of lead for information. A year after eight members of 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.400 the Rodent family were ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.600 Ohio authorities are on a relentless search for the killers. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.239 Over eight hundred tips have been called into police of 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.120 the people of Pike County that day. We're not leaving 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:37.120 until we've solved it. Many different facets of law enforcement 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.679 collaborated to crack the case. The people that carried it out, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.359 we're trying to do everything they could to make sure 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.800 that they didn't get caught. Law enforcement officials began tracking 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.080 down a series of leads that point them to another 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:53.200 group of potential suspects, the Wagners. The wagon shops and 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.120 local walmarts for ammunition, magazine, cliff and materials to build 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.079 grass catchers. According to the case indictment, the Wagners began 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.720 conducting what seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the Rodents. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:06.600 What do you mean a camera was there? Was it 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.440 connected to something? I still do this day wonder why 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.400 she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.680 go any further. The revelations leave those closest to the family, 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.720 questioning their innocence. I know he was upset. Was he 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.760 upset because she had been murdered? Or was upset because 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:30.799 he's done it? This is the Pikedon Massacre, Episode six. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:38.280 The investigation. In this episode, we're going to dive into 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.600 law enforcements, investigation, into the road and murders, how the 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.160 Wagner's allegedly pulled off this gruesome massacre and why. I'm 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.360 Courtney Armstrong and I work at Katie Studios with Stephanie 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.000 Ladecker and Jeff Shane. We produced a documentary about the 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.760 case for NBC Universal's Oxygen Network in twenty nineteen and 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.000 have been following the evolution of the investigation since then. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.960 To understand the crime and the possible motivation of the 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.119 family that may have committed it, we want to look 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.360 at the months leading up to the murders and authorities 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.960 movements after. By any objective standard, it was a long, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.400 arduous investigation spanning two full years. During that time, many 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.839 different facets of law enforcement, the FBI, the DA, the 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.920 Pike County Sheriff's Office, and the Ohio Bureau of Criminal 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.359 Investigation all collaborated to crack the case. Police received over 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.960 eleven hundred tips, They conducted over five hundred interviews, tested 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.440 about seven hundred pieces of evidence, served close to two 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.320 hundred church warrants, subpoenas and other things. So this was 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.120 something that was huge. That's Mike Gallen, a defense attorney, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.280 former Ohio County prosecutor, and legal analyst for Cincinnati news 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.560 station Fox nineteen. The Attorney General Dwine at the time 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.840 said it was a pretty sophisticated operation and the people 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.680 that carried it out, we're trying to do everything that 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.320 they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.719 Attorney General Dwine and Sheriff Reader, they both said that 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.240 the investigation was going to be a long one and 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.880 a lengthy process, and Boyd sure has played out that way. 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.440 But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.680 as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.320 In previous episodes, we discussed some of the conflicts between 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.240 the Wagners and the Rodens. In twenty sixteen, there was 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.320 a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden and 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.839 a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Roden. Senior. 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.960 It seemed like the relationship between the two families was 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.240 reaching a fever pitch and the months leading up to 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.640 the murders. But these two families didn't always have such 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.599 ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler. I 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.840 think early on people wanted to paint the sort of 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.880 few between the Rodens and Wagners and something like the 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.400 Hatfields of McCoys, just because it was sort of heels 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.839 of Appalachia blackwoods and kind of thing. But I it 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.279 really wasn't lighted right like people like to say the 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.000 Hatfields and McCoy's. But I think they were probably closer 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.160 and friendlier than that version of it, right, Yeah, they 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.200 I mean the fact that they were family most just 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.280 sipilating their time between the two houses. The fact that, 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.720 you know, the Wagner's had been in the area for 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.000 a long time as well, just as the Rodents had. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:21.680 It's just you had two families who were intertwined by 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:26.039 both blood and work. We got some more intimate observations 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.320 from Deray. She's Billy Wagner's cousin and Frederica Wagner's niece. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.640 Deray spoke to Jeff about how she saw the relationship 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.719 between her family and the Rodents. Do you know anything 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.960 about Billy and Chris Roden Senior. My aunt said that 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.320 they were very good friends, and of course he was 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.400 the grandfather of Sophia, and so was Billy. Billy is 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.719 Sophia's grandfather. I mean, it's like they're in lass. They're related. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.760 I mean they're two grandfathers and the same little girl. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.919 She's adorable. Did Angela and Dana got along in the 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.839 same way? Do you know? It looked to me like 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.520 they were clearly getting along. And she never said anything 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.960 bad about the Rodents. She never spoke one negative thing 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.720 about it, just about the children about you know, they 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.840 went fishing and they were over at Frederiquez and you know, 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.440 small talk, right, like normal talk you'd have with another 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.400 mom about raising kids, right exactly, and it's just like 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.920 that's all it is. It's just family talk. We of 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.120 course know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had an intense relationship, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.280 but through the ups and downs, most would say they 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.840 were in love and their relationship brought the two families together. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.520 Here's producers Stephanie. When we started doing our research, I 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.160 personally became a bit obsessed with better understanding the intersection 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.360 between these two families and really struggle with the motivation 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.800 what could possibly cause one family, the Wagoners, to allegedly 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.680 murder eight people that they knew so well they knew 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.160 them Intimately, we came across a photograph taken in twenty 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:07.440 twelve at George Wagner, the eldest son's wedding, and the 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.440 Rodens and the Wagners are both in this photo seemingly 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.360 so happy. The only person not there is Dana Rodin, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.360 and she said to maybe be taking the photo because 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.280 she later posted it on her MySpace page. But it's 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.040 mind blowing. The people in the photo do not look 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.840 like killers posing with there would be victims, but sure enough, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.440 in four years, the majority of the people in this 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.240 picture would be dead and the others would be standing 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:40.400 trial for their deaths. Throughout this series, we've been talking 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.520 to a relative of the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.440 She spoke to Jeff about her family's reaction in the 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.440 wake of the Roden murders. What was the feeling like 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.760 in the family after that happened. Angela was upset because 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.880 it was the mother of her granddaughter. She was just 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.800 really sad, you know, that that had happened, I thought, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.160 And I was telling him like, I'm so sorry, you know, 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.520 like if there's anything I can do, please tell me. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.800 And Angela she did ask me m at one point, 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:12.840 probably about a month after the murders had happened, if 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.880 I could come down and pick up Lafia and Jake 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.599 and Kake Satia to a friend's house and stuff. So 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.960 I did, and in that time, we you know, me 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.840 and Jacob said. He and in the car and he 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.640 was an absolute rick rank And of course I did 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.520 not know. I didn't know how to react. I didn't 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.560 know what to ask him. I didn't know what to say. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.680 I was kind of just letting him just have his moment. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.240 And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk, 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.520 he couldn't breathe he was having like a football page 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.400 attack in my car. And I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.800 you know, like I don't know what to say. So 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.400 of course, when I find out that they were the 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.679 ones to done this, um, I keep thinking back to 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.280 that time and you know, in the car and I'm like, 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.360 oh my gosh, like I know, he was upset. But 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.080 was he upset for you know, all right reasons? I 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:06.280 guess was he upset because she had been murdered? Or 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.560 was uet because you know, he's done it and he knew. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.600 I don't know. It was just an awful, eerie feeling. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.040 It really truly was Pike County massacre. It's the title 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.480 of what has happened out here, the tragedy that we've 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.400 been covering. The victims ranged in age from sixteen to 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.520 forty four. Each were shot anywhere from once to nine times. 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.160 It's just, you know, a grizzling scene in a bristling situation. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.560 Let's rewind to summer twenty fourteen. Hannah and Jake's daughter, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.640 Sophia is eight months old. Here's producer Stephanie. This is 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.320 why this case is so complicated, because just when I 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.800 think the Wagners could be innocent, I read something like this. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:51.040 Around this time. According to the case indictment, the Wagners 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.760 began conducting which seems to almost be like reconnaissance on 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.360 the Rodent family. For the course of the next two years. 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.800 They allegedly began hacking into the rodents personal computers, their phones, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.040 even their social media accounts. They even reportedly use surveillance 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.840 cameras to spy on the Rodents. But why would they 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.360 do that, Especially, according to most accounts, Jake and Hannah 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.640 were very much still dating and very much in love 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.480 at this time, So why would they be spying. Was 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.959 Angela Wagner the mom obsessed with her youngest son, Jake 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.839 Wagner's relationship with Hannah Rodin. Were the dads Chris Rodin 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.280 or Billy Wagner Senior embroiled in something big? Were the 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.480 Wagner's simply trying to get familiar with the family patterns 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.400 and better understand the Rodin property? Why would they possibly 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:42.480 be spying. Here's investigative reporter Jodie Barr. He's talking about 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.240 a conversation he had with Kendra Roden, the daughter of 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.720 one of the victims, Kenneth Roden. Rod brought up with 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.360 me in our discussions, she mentioned a few times that 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.560 they were cameras set up around Chris Senior's home. Wow, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.760 so Kendra Rodin actually saw cameras on the property that 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.760 now it seems as if allegedly the Wagners had put there. Yeah, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.160 she told me that at Christian Years Home that there 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.280 was a camera home that property, and she said it 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.840 was in sort of a not in the wooded area, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.720 but sort of the field, like it hadn't been mowed, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.400 but it was right near the garage of Christian Years Home. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.880 And of course naturally you start questioning her about the 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.040 cameras and you know, what do you mean a camera 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.280 was there? What was it connected to something? Did you 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.040 did you look? Did you try to investigate? It was 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.199 a very strange encounter, you know, when she mentioned that 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.000 and then the conversation wouldn't no further. Well, she was 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.280 probably scared, right, possibly, I mean, but she's talking to 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.920 a reporter. That was always something that I've wondered about 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:47.760 because she never got an answer to and it was 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.439 so strange and I still to this day wonder why 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:55.320 she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.720 go any further. Yeah, what I find so like the 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.800 most screwed up thing about it is at that time, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.240 summer in twenty fourteen, is when Jake Wagner and Hannah 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.760 rode in were like hot and heavy and planning a wedding. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.880 And to know that he was then also sort of 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.120 maybe planning her murder at the same time, or starting 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.280 to at least spy on her in some way. It's 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.400 like just very dark. I mean, there's a lot of 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.719 interest obviously still in this case. And you know, with 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.240 every criminal prosecution, you know, the state they have their 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.520 version of facts and the defense will have its virgent 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.400 of facts. But if this turns out to be true, man, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.640 what a story. I mean, what a terribly tragic ending 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.360 to these lives, to everything that was going on. If 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.920 we are to believe that the prosecution as alleged, you know, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:46.480 this paints a very dark picture. We're going to take 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.559 a quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.839 Like many of us, you might think identity theft will 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.959 never happen to you, but consider this. 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It seems that the Wagoners became 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.600 obsessed with getting soul custody of Sophia after Jake and 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.240 Hannah broke up, But how exactly did they think they 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.320 would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, the 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.679 Wagoners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take several 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.359 months to actually carry out. Here again is Jodi Barr. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.920 So when you read these indictments, you know they were 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.679 talking about the Wagoners movements even months before these murders happened, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.000 and that the investigators believe that they were planning this 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.359 for quite some time before that. The indictment says that 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.840 the Technos League that planning began January one of twenty sixteen, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.560 the murders happened April of twenty sixteen, so you've got 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.000 four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here, 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.960 four months to plan this out. I mean, if that's 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.560 every day for four months, that's the full time job. 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.680 So what exactly went into the planning? In previous episodes, 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.960 we talked about how in April twenty sixteen, the Wagner's 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.639 presented Hannah Roden with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.280 know then and what police later uncovered, is that the 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:37.160 supposedly legal documents were fake and that Angela Wagner's mother, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.840 Rita Joe Nucam, was allegedly at the center of the deception. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.920 I spoke to my Gallan about it. So Rita Joe 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.000 numb Angela's mom, she faces three counts of forgery, a 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.119 kind of perjury, and she's a notary. Can you speak 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.600 to like what power does a notary have or how 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.600 does that come into play? In Ohio? Notaries don't have 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.280 a lot of power. They are allowed, obviously to odorized signatures. 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.280 You know, they have to make sure that the oath 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.040 is administered properly. When they are notarizing something they're kind 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.040 of hard to come by here in Ohio. But I'm 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:17.920 certain that because of this, she'll probably lose that notary's license, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.240 if she hasn't already. Moving forward a bit in time, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.080 prosecutors ultimately claimed that Rita lied about the authenticity of 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.080 these documents to a grand jury, but in an unexpected twist, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.240 Nwcombe agreed to a plea deal with the prosecution. She 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.120 pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.520 in exchange felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.080 Here's Newcomb's speaking in court. I just feel that it's 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:50.120 not a good thankful and it's difficult to hear her 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.880 because of the recording, but she says, I just feel 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.159 that it's not a good Christian thing to lie, and 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.400 I couldn't live with it no more. Jodi Barr thinks 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.320 there could be ulterior motives Newcomb's deal. The prosecutor said 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.240 in court, though, that a hand writing expert concluded that 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.760 Rita Newcombe did not sign the documents herself. Newcombe admitted 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.119 to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.639 did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, who was 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.880 among those charged with the killings, told her to do so. 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.840 I mean there were some heavy charges dismissed, you know, 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.879 where investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to get some 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.360 information out of them. Mike Allen seems to think so. 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:36.000 Now there's a lot of speculation, and in the normal case, 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.439 the first thing you'd think of is Okay, you know, 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.680 they gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation, 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.639 and I would not be surprised if that's not the case. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.120 But again, you know, we won't know until we get 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:55.280 closer to trial. Can you be compelled to testify for 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:01.080 the prosecution? Sure, I mean they received a subpoena unless 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:06.560 there's some kind of legal reason why you know they couldn't. Yeah, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.840 I mean the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.520 the prosecutor would probably ask the court designate that person 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.280 as a hostile witness and then they can use leading questions. 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.760 According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian Frigid 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.160 and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths. When 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.399 police later searched the Wagner home, this document was found 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.959 in a box belonging to Angelo Wagner labeled important stuff. 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.520 I asked Mike Allen about the legal ramifications of these 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.320 forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.640 forged on April third? It was nineteen days before the murders. 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.480 I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.600 long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.159 strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.520 find a way to explain that, a way which is 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:01.480 probably next to impossible. But yeah, that's strong evidence from 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:06.280 a prosecutor's perspective. As we've discussed before, it was around 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.120 this time that Chris Roden Senior and Billy Wagner got 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.600 into a fight as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation. 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.560 Back in mid April two thousand and sixteen, Supposedly there 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.320 was a fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Nobody 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.479 seems to know what the fight was about or what 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.560 caused it. Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families, 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.080 but the beginning of April also brought a lot of 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.159 joy for the Roden family. That month, Hannah celebrated her 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.399 nineteenth birthday. Here's Roden family friend Stephane. It was a 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.679 happy occasion, you know, it was family get together and 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.160 lots of fun, you know, because they were fun. They 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.320 were always having you know, get together's, birthday parties, anything 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:53.160 like that. They were a great family unit. But as 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.639 the Roden family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly were busy 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:01.120 planning their murders. The Wagner has already had a cachet 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.240 of firearms, but around this time they began making their 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:08.480 own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it seems 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.440 likely that these would have been used on the night 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:16.320 of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a magazine clip, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:21.119 a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. Jodie 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:23.240 Barr filled us in on what some of this equipment 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.520 is used for. The brass catcher is a bag that 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:30.160 hooks on the side of a firearm. It will catch 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:34.639 spent cartridges, so every time you pull this trigger, cartridges 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.840 is ejected. And if you were really interested in not 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:41.920 leaving anything behind as far as ballistic evidence, this sounds 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.240 like a great story. This bag will collect the shell casing, 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.800 so there's no evidence left. Behind the bug detector, so 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.200 purely that helps someone find listening devices and sometimes create 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:58.480 white noise to muscle sounds or discussion. The indictment also 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.000 includes a reference to a specific pair of shoes that 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.240 the family purchased from Walmart. But why would they need 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.479 a particular pair of shoes to pull off from murder? 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.600