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Curiosity Stream is the streaming 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more. 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: What's the real story behind the Mona Lisa, We've got that. 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: What caused the collapse of Rome? We know? Where? Did 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? Come find out? From Egypt 33 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: to Weinstein. Curiosity Stream is the place for history with monthly, annual, 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: and bundled plans. Find one for you at curiosity stream 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome to the Piked and Massacre, a production 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. It's been one year since 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: eight members of the Roden family were found murdered in 38 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: Pike County. Now, surviving members of the family have released 39 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: of lead for information. A year after eight members of 40 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: the Rodent family were ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: Ohio authorities are on a relentless search for the killers. 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: Over eight hundred tips have been called into police of 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: the people of Pike County that day. We're not leaving 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: until we've solved it. Many different facets of law enforcement 45 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: collaborated to crack the case. The people that carried it out, 46 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: we're trying to do everything they could to make sure 47 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: that they didn't get caught. Law enforcement officials began tracking 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: down a series of leads that point them to another 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: group of potential suspects, the Wagners. The wagon shops and 50 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: local walmarts for ammunition, magazine, cliff and materials to build 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: grass catchers. According to the case indictment, the Wagners began 52 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: conducting what seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the Rodents. 53 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: What do you mean a camera was there? Was it 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: connected to something? I still do this day wonder why 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 56 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: go any further. The revelations leave those closest to the family, 57 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: questioning their innocence. I know he was upset. Was he 58 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: upset because she had been murdered? Or was upset because 59 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: he's done it? This is the Pikedon Massacre, Episode six. 60 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: The investigation. In this episode, we're going to dive into 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: law enforcements, investigation, into the road and murders, how the 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: Wagner's allegedly pulled off this gruesome massacre and why. I'm 63 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong and I work at Katie Studios with Stephanie 64 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Ladecker and Jeff Shane. We produced a documentary about the 65 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: case for NBC Universal's Oxygen Network in twenty nineteen and 66 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: have been following the evolution of the investigation since then. 67 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: To understand the crime and the possible motivation of the 68 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: family that may have committed it, we want to look 69 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: at the months leading up to the murders and authorities 70 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: movements after. By any objective standard, it was a long, 71 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: arduous investigation spanning two full years. During that time, many 72 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: different facets of law enforcement, the FBI, the DA, the 73 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: Pike County Sheriff's Office, and the Ohio Bureau of Criminal 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: Investigation all collaborated to crack the case. Police received over 75 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: eleven hundred tips, They conducted over five hundred interviews, tested 76 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: about seven hundred pieces of evidence, served close to two 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: hundred church warrants, subpoenas and other things. So this was 78 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: something that was huge. That's Mike Gallen, a defense attorney, 79 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: former Ohio County prosecutor, and legal analyst for Cincinnati news 80 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: station Fox nineteen. The Attorney General Dwine at the time 81 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: said it was a pretty sophisticated operation and the people 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: that carried it out, we're trying to do everything that 83 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. 84 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: Attorney General Dwine and Sheriff Reader, they both said that 85 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: the investigation was going to be a long one and 86 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: a lengthy process, and Boyd sure has played out that way. 87 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners 88 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests. 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: In previous episodes, we discussed some of the conflicts between 90 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: the Wagners and the Rodens. In twenty sixteen, there was 91 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden and 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Roden. Senior. 93 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: It seemed like the relationship between the two families was 94 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: reaching a fever pitch and the months leading up to 95 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: the murders. But these two families didn't always have such 96 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler. I 97 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: think early on people wanted to paint the sort of 98 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: few between the Rodens and Wagners and something like the 99 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: Hatfields of McCoys, just because it was sort of heels 100 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: of Appalachia blackwoods and kind of thing. But I it 101 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: really wasn't lighted right like people like to say the 102 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Hatfields and McCoy's. But I think they were probably closer 103 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: and friendlier than that version of it, right, Yeah, they 104 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: I mean the fact that they were family most just 105 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: sipilating their time between the two houses. The fact that, 106 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, the Wagner's had been in the area for 107 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: a long time as well, just as the Rodents had. 108 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: It's just you had two families who were intertwined by 109 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: both blood and work. We got some more intimate observations 110 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: from Deray. She's Billy Wagner's cousin and Frederica Wagner's niece. 111 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: Deray spoke to Jeff about how she saw the relationship 112 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: between her family and the Rodents. Do you know anything 113 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: about Billy and Chris Roden Senior. My aunt said that 114 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: they were very good friends, and of course he was 115 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: the grandfather of Sophia, and so was Billy. Billy is 116 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: Sophia's grandfather. I mean, it's like they're in lass. They're related. 117 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean they're two grandfathers and the same little girl. 118 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: She's adorable. Did Angela and Dana got along in the 119 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: same way? Do you know? It looked to me like 120 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: they were clearly getting along. And she never said anything 121 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: bad about the Rodents. She never spoke one negative thing 122 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: about it, just about the children about you know, they 123 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: went fishing and they were over at Frederiquez and you know, 124 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: small talk, right, like normal talk you'd have with another 125 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: mom about raising kids, right exactly, and it's just like 126 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: that's all it is. It's just family talk. We of 127 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: course know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had an intense relationship, 128 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: but through the ups and downs, most would say they 129 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: were in love and their relationship brought the two families together. 130 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: Here's producers Stephanie. When we started doing our research, I 131 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: personally became a bit obsessed with better understanding the intersection 132 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: between these two families and really struggle with the motivation 133 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: what could possibly cause one family, the Wagoners, to allegedly 134 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: murder eight people that they knew so well they knew 135 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: them Intimately, we came across a photograph taken in twenty 136 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: twelve at George Wagner, the eldest son's wedding, and the 137 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: Rodens and the Wagners are both in this photo seemingly 138 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: so happy. The only person not there is Dana Rodin, 139 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: and she said to maybe be taking the photo because 140 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: she later posted it on her MySpace page. But it's 141 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: mind blowing. The people in the photo do not look 142 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: like killers posing with there would be victims, but sure enough, 143 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: in four years, the majority of the people in this 144 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: picture would be dead and the others would be standing 145 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: trial for their deaths. Throughout this series, we've been talking 146 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: to a relative of the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. 147 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: She spoke to Jeff about her family's reaction in the 148 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: wake of the Roden murders. What was the feeling like 149 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: in the family after that happened. Angela was upset because 150 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: it was the mother of her granddaughter. She was just 151 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: really sad, you know, that that had happened, I thought, 152 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: And I was telling him like, I'm so sorry, you know, 153 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: like if there's anything I can do, please tell me. 154 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: And Angela she did ask me m at one point, 155 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: probably about a month after the murders had happened, if 156 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: I could come down and pick up Lafia and Jake 157 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 1: and Kake Satia to a friend's house and stuff. So 158 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: I did, and in that time, we you know, me 159 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: and Jacob said. He and in the car and he 160 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: was an absolute rick rank And of course I did 161 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: not know. I didn't know how to react. I didn't 162 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: know what to ask him. I didn't know what to say. 163 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: I was kind of just letting him just have his moment. 164 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk, 165 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: he couldn't breathe he was having like a football page 166 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: attack in my car. And I'm like, oh my gosh, 167 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know what to say. So 168 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: of course, when I find out that they were the 169 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: ones to done this, um, I keep thinking back to 170 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: that time and you know, in the car and I'm like, 171 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like I know, he was upset. But 172 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: was he upset for you know, all right reasons? I 173 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: guess was he upset because she had been murdered? Or 174 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: was uet because you know, he's done it and he knew. 175 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was just an awful, eerie feeling. 176 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: It really truly was Pike County massacre. It's the title 177 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: of what has happened out here, the tragedy that we've 178 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: been covering. The victims ranged in age from sixteen to 179 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: forty four. Each were shot anywhere from once to nine times. 180 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: It's just, you know, a grizzling scene in a bristling situation. 181 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: Let's rewind to summer twenty fourteen. Hannah and Jake's daughter, 182 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: Sophia is eight months old. Here's producer Stephanie. This is 183 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: why this case is so complicated, because just when I 184 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: think the Wagners could be innocent, I read something like this. 185 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: Around this time. According to the case indictment, the Wagners 186 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: began conducting which seems to almost be like reconnaissance on 187 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: the Rodent family. For the course of the next two years. 188 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: They allegedly began hacking into the rodents personal computers, their phones, 189 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: even their social media accounts. They even reportedly use surveillance 190 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: cameras to spy on the Rodents. But why would they 191 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: do that, Especially, according to most accounts, Jake and Hannah 192 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: were very much still dating and very much in love 193 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: at this time, So why would they be spying. Was 194 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner the mom obsessed with her youngest son, Jake 195 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: Wagner's relationship with Hannah Rodin. Were the dads Chris Rodin 196 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: or Billy Wagner Senior embroiled in something big? Were the 197 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: Wagner's simply trying to get familiar with the family patterns 198 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: and better understand the Rodin property? Why would they possibly 199 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: be spying. Here's investigative reporter Jodie Barr. He's talking about 200 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: a conversation he had with Kendra Roden, the daughter of 201 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: one of the victims, Kenneth Roden. Rod brought up with 202 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: me in our discussions, she mentioned a few times that 203 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: they were cameras set up around Chris Senior's home. Wow, 204 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: so Kendra Rodin actually saw cameras on the property that 205 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: now it seems as if allegedly the Wagners had put there. Yeah, 206 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: she told me that at Christian Years Home that there 207 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: was a camera home that property, and she said it 208 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: was in sort of a not in the wooded area, 209 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: but sort of the field, like it hadn't been mowed, 210 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: but it was right near the garage of Christian Years Home. 211 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: And of course naturally you start questioning her about the 212 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: cameras and you know, what do you mean a camera 213 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: was there? What was it connected to something? Did you 214 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: did you look? Did you try to investigate? It was 215 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: a very strange encounter, you know, when she mentioned that 216 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: and then the conversation wouldn't no further. Well, she was 217 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: probably scared, right, possibly, I mean, but she's talking to 218 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: a reporter. That was always something that I've wondered about 219 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: because she never got an answer to and it was 220 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: so strange and I still to this day wonder why 221 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 222 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: go any further. Yeah, what I find so like the 223 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: most screwed up thing about it is at that time, 224 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: summer in twenty fourteen, is when Jake Wagner and Hannah 225 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: rode in were like hot and heavy and planning a wedding. 226 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: And to know that he was then also sort of 227 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: maybe planning her murder at the same time, or starting 228 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: to at least spy on her in some way. It's 229 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: like just very dark. I mean, there's a lot of 230 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 1: interest obviously still in this case. And you know, with 231 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: every criminal prosecution, you know, the state they have their 232 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: version of facts and the defense will have its virgent 233 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: of facts. But if this turns out to be true, man, 234 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: what a story. I mean, what a terribly tragic ending 235 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: to these lives, to everything that was going on. If 236 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: we are to believe that the prosecution as alleged, you know, 237 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: this paints a very dark picture. We're going to take 238 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: a quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. 239 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: Like many of us, you might think identity theft will 240 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: never happen to you, but consider this. 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It seems that the Wagoners became 294 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: obsessed with getting soul custody of Sophia after Jake and 295 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: Hannah broke up, But how exactly did they think they 296 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, the 297 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: Wagoners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take several 298 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: months to actually carry out. Here again is Jodi Barr. 299 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: So when you read these indictments, you know they were 300 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: talking about the Wagoners movements even months before these murders happened, 301 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: and that the investigators believe that they were planning this 302 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: for quite some time before that. The indictment says that 303 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: the Technos League that planning began January one of twenty sixteen, 304 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: the murders happened April of twenty sixteen, so you've got 305 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here, 306 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: four months to plan this out. I mean, if that's 307 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: every day for four months, that's the full time job. 308 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: So what exactly went into the planning? In previous episodes, 309 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: we talked about how in April twenty sixteen, the Wagner's 310 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: presented Hannah Roden with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't 311 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: know then and what police later uncovered, is that the 312 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: supposedly legal documents were fake and that Angela Wagner's mother, 313 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: Rita Joe Nucam, was allegedly at the center of the deception. 314 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: I spoke to my Gallan about it. So Rita Joe 315 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: numb Angela's mom, she faces three counts of forgery, a 316 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: kind of perjury, and she's a notary. Can you speak 317 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: to like what power does a notary have or how 318 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: does that come into play? In Ohio? Notaries don't have 319 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: a lot of power. They are allowed, obviously to odorized signatures. 320 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: You know, they have to make sure that the oath 321 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: is administered properly. When they are notarizing something they're kind 322 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: of hard to come by here in Ohio. But I'm 323 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: certain that because of this, she'll probably lose that notary's license, 324 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: if she hasn't already. Moving forward a bit in time, 325 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors ultimately claimed that Rita lied about the authenticity of 326 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: these documents to a grand jury, but in an unexpected twist, 327 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: Nwcombe agreed to a plea deal with the prosecution. She 328 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business 329 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: in exchange felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. 330 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: Here's Newcomb's speaking in court. I just feel that it's 331 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: not a good thankful and it's difficult to hear her 332 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: because of the recording, but she says, I just feel 333 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: that it's not a good Christian thing to lie, and 334 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't live with it no more. Jodi Barr thinks 335 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: there could be ulterior motives Newcomb's deal. The prosecutor said 336 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: in court, though, that a hand writing expert concluded that 337 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: Rita Newcombe did not sign the documents herself. Newcombe admitted 338 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she 339 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, who was 340 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: among those charged with the killings, told her to do so. 341 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean there were some heavy charges dismissed, you know, 342 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: where investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to get some 343 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: information out of them. Mike Allen seems to think so. 344 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of speculation, and in the normal case, 345 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: the first thing you'd think of is Okay, you know, 346 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: they gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation, 347 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: and I would not be surprised if that's not the case. 348 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: But again, you know, we won't know until we get 349 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: closer to trial. Can you be compelled to testify for 350 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: the prosecution? Sure, I mean they received a subpoena unless 351 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: there's some kind of legal reason why you know they couldn't. Yeah, 352 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: I mean the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, 353 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: the prosecutor would probably ask the court designate that person 354 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: as a hostile witness and then they can use leading questions. 355 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian Frigid 356 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths. When 357 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: police later searched the Wagner home, this document was found 358 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 1: in a box belonging to Angelo Wagner labeled important stuff. 359 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: I asked Mike Allen about the legal ramifications of these 360 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were 361 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: forged on April third? It was nineteen days before the murders. 362 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a 363 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's 364 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to 365 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: find a way to explain that, a way which is 366 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: probably next to impossible. But yeah, that's strong evidence from 367 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: a prosecutor's perspective. As we've discussed before, it was around 368 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: this time that Chris Roden Senior and Billy Wagner got 369 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: into a fight as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation. 370 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: Back in mid April two thousand and sixteen, Supposedly there 371 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: was a fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Nobody 372 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: seems to know what the fight was about or what 373 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: caused it. Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families, 374 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: but the beginning of April also brought a lot of 375 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: joy for the Roden family. That month, Hannah celebrated her 376 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: nineteenth birthday. Here's Roden family friend Stephane. It was a 377 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: happy occasion, you know, it was family get together and 378 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: lots of fun, you know, because they were fun. They 379 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: were always having you know, get together's, birthday parties, anything 380 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: like that. They were a great family unit. But as 381 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: the Roden family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly were busy 382 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: planning their murders. The Wagner has already had a cachet 383 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: of firearms, but around this time they began making their 384 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it seems 385 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: likely that these would have been used on the night 386 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a magazine clip, 387 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. Jodie 388 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: Barr filled us in on what some of this equipment 389 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: is used for. The brass catcher is a bag that 390 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: hooks on the side of a firearm. It will catch 391 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: spent cartridges, so every time you pull this trigger, cartridges 392 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: is ejected. And if you were really interested in not 393 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: leaving anything behind as far as ballistic evidence, this sounds 394 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: like a great story. This bag will collect the shell casing, 395 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: so there's no evidence left. Behind the bug detector, so 396 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: purely that helps someone find listening devices and sometimes create 397 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: white noise to muscle sounds or discussion. The indictment also 398 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: includes a reference to a specific pair of shoes that 399 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: the family purchased from Walmart. But why would they need 400 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: a particular pair of shoes to pull off from murder? 401 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie. One such theory is that the Wagoners were 402 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: trying to frame Danta Roden's brother, James Manley. He's significant 403 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: because if you recall, Dana Roden's sister, Bobby Joe, made 404 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: the first discovery of bodies and called nine one one. 405 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: She also called her brother, who rushed to Dana Roden's 406 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: house and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly 407 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: at the crime scene. However, just one day before the murders, 408 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: the Wagoners drove two and a half hours to a 409 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: specific Walmart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're 410 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: seen on surveillance buying these boots and then the same 411 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: kind of boots known to be worn by James Manley. 412 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: Why would they do that? Here's reporter Jodie Barr from 413 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: the dyingment. I mean, there's a lot of assertion by 414 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: the prosecution that they have evidence that, you know, these 415 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: boots were purchased to James Manley, a family member for 416 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: the murder, and that James lived the closest to Dana, 417 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: and that James ended up being one of the first 418 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: to discover Dana and you know in Hannah's bodies that morning, right. 419 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: So the idea is that they went and bought these 420 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: specific boots knowing that James Manley wore them, and then 421 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: they would in theory wear them the night of the murder. 422 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: So it looks to police like he was the one 423 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: walking around, and it sounds like for a period of 424 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: time investigators might have believed that to be the case, 425 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: because James Manley was one of the first people brought 426 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: in and interrogated given a polygraph. I mean, if you're 427 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: to believe what's written in that indictment, it sounds like 428 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: they may have been pretty close to pulling this all on. 429 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: It was so detail oriented. Yeah, and you and you 430 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: wondered this too. It's like it seemed like a lot 431 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: of details planning to preplan that. I don't really know 432 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: what to think of it. Again, I don't know anybody 433 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: who's capable of doing that and we know it happened 434 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: pulled off by somebody, But I mean, if they really 435 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: bought boots to try to frame James manly Man again, 436 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: this is a heck of a story. Who drinks this up? 437 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: Who thinks this up? In April twenty sixteen, the same 438 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: week as Hannah's birthday, her mother Dana, threw a baby 439 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: shower to celebrate the upcoming birth of her new baby girl, Kylie. 440 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: It would be the last time the Rodent family all 441 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: gathered in one place. Becky Ryder was a close friend 442 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: of Dana Roden's. She told Jeff about the excitement surrounding 443 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: the baby's arrival. Dana felt overwhelmed with joy, happiness. I 444 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: guess she's getting another grand baby that she can love 445 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: and spoil. She always loves her grandkids, if yeah, deeply? Yeah, 446 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: And like Hannah must have been happy too, because she was. 447 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: She had a new boyfriend at that point who was 448 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: not Jake Wagner, and she was about to have a 449 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: new baby and kind of start a new chapter of 450 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: her life. Right, Oh yeah, absolutely. In photos from this event, 451 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: Hannah smiles with her daughter Sophia. We also see other 452 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: family members in the photo, including Frankie and his fiance 453 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly. In just a few days, eight members of 454 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: the Rodent family would be dead. But Deray's recollection of 455 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: the events leading up to the birth of Kylie is different. 456 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: She says at that point that things were still going 457 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: well between Jake and Hannah. I believe they may have disagreements, 458 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: and I think there was disappointments, but I don't think 459 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: there was any any hate. We've discussed in previous episodes 460 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: how the people have pikedon were immediately affected by the 461 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: murders and the shroud of fear that hovered over the 462 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: small town. I just don't understand why happened here. He 463 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: has a really wondering thing, like, is so like mafia 464 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: or anything like that, because it's just crazy. If I 465 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: lived down there, I wouldn't stay there. I would be 466 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: so afraid. But in the wake of the murders, many 467 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: news outlets were portraying Jake Wagner as almost a sympathetic figure. 468 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: This is how the Cincinnati Inquirer describes him in a 469 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: July twenty sixteen article, A full time single dad with 470 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: mounting legal bills, with a new job that pays half 471 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: of what he was making to ensure he is close 472 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: to Sophia, but close still means the twenty three year 473 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: old makes a daily commute to Cincinnati, a two and 474 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: a half hour daily drive. Anybody was connected to this family, 475 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of emotion from the 476 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: public involved your because of these children. So it's no 477 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: surprise that Jake, you know, a lot of people felt 478 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: for Jake. I mean, he's left there with that very 479 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: young daughter and he's deciding to get her back. But 480 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: it's what the family did in the wake of the 481 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: murders that raised some suspicion. We know that just six 482 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: days after the Rodents were killed, Jake Wagner filed for 483 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: custody of two and a half year old Sophia, his 484 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: daughter with Hannah Rodin. In a previous episode, we talked 485 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: to Ohio criminal defense attorney Mike Allen about how this 486 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: looks from a legal perspective. That's extremely strong evidence for 487 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: the prosecution. I mean, six days, less than a week 488 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: after the killings to go ahead and file. It can 489 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: take months, you know, maybe a year, a little bit more, 490 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: a little bit less. It's not something that goes quickly 491 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: at all. And I think that that is going to 492 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: be some evidence that's problematic for the defense doing it 493 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: that quickly after the murders. It was around the same 494 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: time that Angela Wigner suggested her son create a go 495 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: fund Me campaign to help cover the custody expenses to 496 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: the tune of twenty thousand dollars. Jake wrote a personal 497 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: message on the page, saying these were not expenses I 498 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be 499 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: able to spend time with her and give her a 500 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: happy childhood. Sophia and I are just asking enough to 501 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific 502 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: tragedy to her mommy. He finished, I hate seeing my 503 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: daughter cry. We want to get our lives back. But 504 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: these legal actions seemed unusual to many in the community. 505 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: He was an investigative reporter. Jodi Barr. I do remember 506 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: seeing that in the Rodent massacre Facebook group, you know, 507 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: people talking about that, you know, they were there was 508 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: a lot of angry comments about it that you know, 509 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people in those groups have already convicted 510 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: the Waggers. They already believed they did it and they're guilty, 511 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: and you know, so to see that and how vocal 512 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: the wagoners were on social media, it seemed to rubble 513 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: people in that group the wrong way, that that was 514 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: the wrong message um that they believe the Wagoners should 515 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: have been sending at that point in time. But you 516 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: know a lot of people saw it as the brazen um, 517 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: the people wrapped up in this to make a move 518 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: like that, to ask for help. Let's stop here for 519 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: another quick break. We'll be back in a moment Only 520 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: on CNN. 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In 579 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: May twenty seventeen, with the investigation in full swing, officials 580 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: searched the farm of a piked In resident named Bernard Brown. 581 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: Mike Allen filled us in on why police may have 582 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: been interested in the property agents searched his farm. I 583 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: guess he's a friend of the Wagoners, knew them for 584 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: a long time. I guess they fixed cars together, A 585 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: lot of cars on the lot. I guess Jake had 586 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: stored some cars and some other things on the property. 587 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what cars and vehicles and equipment 588 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: are all over these farms that have been searched. So 589 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean maybe something could have been hidden somewhere, as 590 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: somebody must have given law enforcement a tip that there 591 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: could possibly be something there, or they wouldn't have searched it. 592 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: Bernard Brown was not charged with anything. Authorities searched two 593 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: large trailers and took one smaller utility trailer owned by 594 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: the Wagners from his property. According to Brown, Jake Wagner 595 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: sometimes worked for him fixing cars. Brown said that the 596 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 1: Wagners had dropped items off at the property a week 597 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: prior to the search. It was clear that investigators were 598 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: becoming more interested in the Wagners. By the spring of 599 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, the family had been interviewed several times by authorities. 600 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: It should be noted that Jake and Angelo were interviewed 601 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: five times, Billy three times, and George once. Deray spoke 602 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: to Jeff about a conversation she had with Angela Wagner 603 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: as police narrowed in on her family. One day, she goes, 604 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. They just won't leave us alone. 605 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,959 Speaker 1: They just will not leave us alone, because it's terrible. 606 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: She was We're starting to get really worried that we're 607 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: going to be arrested. So they felt that coming yeah, 608 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: because they wouldn't leave everybody alone. Rumors of the Wagner's 609 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: potential involvement in the road and massacre quickly spread, and 610 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: soon they were being targeted not only by police, but 611 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: by Pike County residents as well. Everybody had started basically 612 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: attacking them the community, accusing them of murdering those people, 613 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: like if they were in town and people identified their vehicle, 614 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: they would throw pot bottles at them. Angela had actually 615 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: went into a store one day and some woman had 616 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: actually flewed up behind Angela as she was coming back 617 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: out of the store and through a glass key bottle 618 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: a her and it busted her in the back. In 619 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: May twenty seventeen, as the community continued to turn against them, 620 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner took to social media to publicly to clare 621 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: her family's innocence. Here's Jeff reading from her post. Okay, 622 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: I have decided to tell you all a couple of 623 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: things about me and my family. What has happened to 624 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: us in the past few weeks has been devastating and 625 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: it will follow us for the rest of our lives. 626 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. 627 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: Her laws still hurts to this day, especially when I 628 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: see her every day and my granddaughter. We did not 629 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: do anything to hurt Hannah's family. We want justice just 630 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,439 Speaker 1: like everyone else. It is real disturbing if you really 631 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: want to know what you guys are doing. Your accusations 632 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: now will hurt Sophia later in life when she really 633 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 1: understands what happened. Let's try to find the real monsters 634 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: who've done this. So let's really unpack this for a moment, 635 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: because if Angela Wagner is in fact a martyr and 636 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: had been targeted by the town, I mean having a 637 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: bottle thrown at you, if you did not commit these 638 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: crimes would be hideous, especially the town that you love 639 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: so much. Angela and her husband lived there for generations. 640 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: That had to be really difficult. However, if they did it, 641 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: they just went about their lives, speaking to the press openly. 642 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: You know, when I look at her photo, I know 643 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: I've said this before, she looks like a mom, but 644 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: then she's also grimacing in her mug shot, and even 645 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: during her pre trial hearings, there's something sort of smug 646 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: about the way she presents herself. It also makes me 647 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: wonder could she possibly be at the center of this. 648 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: Facing violent backlash from locals and increasing attention from authorities, 649 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: the Wagners did something that left everyone and piked and stunned. 650 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: Here's Steph Winkler again. Their lawyer had said that they 651 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: would be primary suspects, and so it was around that 652 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: time May twenty seventeen that the whole family emptied out 653 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: a few cargo facilities that they had, some sheds and whatnot, 654 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: loaded all up and then up and moved to Alaska. 655 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 1: When they left for Alaska, I was like, oh wow, 656 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: they're running. And then I thought they all get away 657 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: with it. I'm the one that told them go to Alaska. 658 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: The suitable Ohio can not afford to extradite you from 659 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: Alaska back home. But the Wagner's relocation didn't hinder the investigation. 660 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: Investigators rated three properties in Adams and Pike Counties the 661 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: middle of May. We had previously reported those properties are 662 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: connected to the Wagner family. Now investigators say they believe 663 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: the family recently moved to Alaska. Investigators want any information 664 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: the public has about the family they moved to Alaska. 665 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: But then the very following month, law enforcement actually finally 666 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: searches the properties where the Wagners lived. That started to 667 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: tighten the noose in terms of the Wagners. More on 668 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: that next time. Reach out to us on our social 669 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: media outlets with questions where on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter 670 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: at piked in Massacre. We look forward to answering your 671 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: questions and upcoming bonus episodes. Piked Massacre as executive produced 672 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound 673 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff 674 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: Shane and Andrew Becker. The piked in Massacre is a 675 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 676 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 677 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Interesting and relatable topics, knowledgeable guests, 678 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: highly entertaining and informative. Words that describe CNN's podcast Chasing 679 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: Life with Doctor Sanjay Gupta. As I talked to doctor Rich, 680 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: what really stood out to me was his approach to 681 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: treating his patients. The therapeutic goal of treatment for problematic 682 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: interactive media use cannot be abstinates. This is an essential 683 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: tool and essential skill of our time. 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