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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon, folks.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, yes, thank you so much for coming out to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. If you've listened to the last few episodes

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Speaker 1: of The Happiness Lab, you know that I've been trying

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Speaker 1: to get out of my tiny apartment podcast closet and

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Speaker 1: into the real world so that I can meet listeners

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Speaker 1: just like you. And to do that, I've been hosting

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Speaker 1: a series of Happiness Lab live shows recorded in front

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Speaker 1: of live audiences. Today's episode comes from the thirtieth anniversary

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Speaker 1: Hot Dogs Festival in Toronto. At the event, I got

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Speaker 1: to chat with someone you've met on the show before,

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Speaker 1: best selling author and fellow podcaster Gretchen Ruby.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello. We're so happy to be here,

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Speaker 3: of course no.

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Speaker 1: Gretchen recently joined me on The Happiness Lab for a

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Speaker 1: special double episode about her new book Life in Five Senses,

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Speaker 1: How Exploring the Senses got Me out of my head

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Speaker 1: and into the world. At the Hot Dogs event, Gretchen

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Speaker 1: and I spoke more about how to awaken our senses

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Speaker 1: and followed up on what we'd both learned since we

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Speaker 1: last talked.

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Speaker 4: It almost became unmanageable because I was like anything I

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Speaker 4: was thinking of I would immediately start thinking of new

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Speaker 4: things to try.

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Speaker 1: You can hear our full and very fun conversation if

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Speaker 1: you're a Pushkin Plus subscriber or by signing up at

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Speaker 1: Pushkin dot fm forward slash joined Pushkin. But what you'll

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Speaker 1: hear right now is what happened after Gretchen and I

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Speaker 1: finished our initial chat. Because our event didn't end there.

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Speaker 1: Gretchen and I both wanted to hear what fans just

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Speaker 1: like you wanted to know about happiness and how we

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Speaker 1: could better use our five senses to improve our well being.

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Speaker 1: So we put out a call to the Hot Dogs

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Speaker 1: audience for all their burning questions, and the folks in

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Speaker 1: Toronto really stepped up. As you'll hear, it turned into

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Speaker 1: one of the most engaging live Q and A sessions

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Speaker 1: that I've had a chance to take part in in years.

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Speaker 4: Well, and Laurie, I think the first I'm going to

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Speaker 4: give you the first one ye yeah, okay? For someone

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Speaker 4: going through a really tough time right now, who describes

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Speaker 4: them in survival mode? What is the one thing or

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Speaker 4: the first thing you would suggest they do to preserve

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Speaker 4: well being?

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Speaker 3: Good question?

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Speaker 1: How many people not did you ask this question, but

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Speaker 1: feel like that could have been their question the fee.

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Speaker 1: You feel like you're in survival mode right now?

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Speaker 2: Show U yeah. Clap, clap, clap, show hands. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like about a quarter of the audience

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Speaker 1: is clapping. And this gets to one of the strategies

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Speaker 1: I would suggest, which is what the psychologist Kristen f

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Speaker 1: calls kind of feeling your common humanity. Right, So there's

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Speaker 1: a sort of strategy you can use for self compassion because, like,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us feel like we're struggling

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Speaker 1: right now and we're in survival mode, and in some

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Speaker 1: ways that's like normative.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The economy is falling apart, Like climate change is scary,

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Speaker 1: political polarization is scary. We've just kind of maybe gotten

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Speaker 1: out of a three year pandemic, but maybe not. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's really safe to be in this

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Speaker 1: big on, you know, but like there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that's making us feel uncertain and overwhelmed and scared

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Speaker 1: and tired. And that's for folks who are just like

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Speaker 1: at the regular baseline. If you in that climate go

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Speaker 1: through something really tough, you're definitely going to feel like

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Speaker 1: you're struggling and you're in survival mode. It's normative, And

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Speaker 1: so that's kind of strategy number one is to remember

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Speaker 1: you're not feeling you're not screwing up. That's what emotions

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to be feeling right now. I think this

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Speaker 1: is a problem is that sometimes and I worry sometimes

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Speaker 1: that podcasts like ours contribute to this. Right, there's so

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Speaker 1: much talk about happiness and positive emotions, and you can

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Speaker 1: sometimes feel like you're if you're in survival mode, you're

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Speaker 1: doing something wrong, right, But it's worth remembering that negative

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Speaker 1: emotions are normative. We're supposed to feel frustrated and angry

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Speaker 1: and scared and anxious at a lot of different times.

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Speaker 1: And so first of all, don't beat yourself up. Your

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Speaker 1: body and your mind is doing something that it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be doing, and it's doing something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of us are going through right now. So that would

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Speaker 1: be kind of strategy number one for common humanity. But

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Speaker 1: then strategy number two would be like allowing yourself to

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Speaker 1: experience those emotions, which is something that I think people

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Speaker 1: tend not to like to do.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know I don't like to do it.

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Speaker 1: Right. If I'm feeling those things, it's kind of like, uh,

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Speaker 1: it both feels like something's wrong, but it also feels

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Speaker 1: like something I should just like suppress and run away from.

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Speaker 1: But practices where you find ways to allow those emotions.

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Speaker 1: On the podcast, we shared one by the meditation teacher

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Speaker 1: Tara Brock, which is this meditation practice called RAIN, which

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Speaker 1: stands for Recognize, Allow, Investigate, and nurture. Do you like

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Speaker 1: recognize I'm feeling like I'm in survival mode right now,

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Speaker 1: But then you sit and you say, okay, step number

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Speaker 1: two Allow, I'm going to just allow that feeling and

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Speaker 1: you investigate. You notice what is my body doing when

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Speaker 1: I'm in survival mode? Like I am tense, my neck

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Speaker 1: is tense, I'm you know, or maybe I like have

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Speaker 1: all these cravings. I want to eat something, I want

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Speaker 1: to check my email, whatever, notice and pay it to

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Speaker 1: like five ten minutes, just sit and watch. And the

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Speaker 1: sitting and watching works because sometimes when you actually pay

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Speaker 1: attention to these negative emotions they can kind of subside

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Speaker 1: a bit, but you don't end there. The last step

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Speaker 1: of Tara Brack's meditation practice is this end nurture, where

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Speaker 1: you kind of do something nice for yourself. What can

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Speaker 1: you take off your Can you call a friend? Can

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Speaker 1: you make a connection. Can you dive into your five senses?

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Speaker 1: Maybe this is a time when you want to curate

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Speaker 1: a particular sense that you really like a nice candle

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Speaker 1: or something right. Practices like that research suggests can really

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Speaker 1: reduce negative emotions and feels like palliated care workers and

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Speaker 1: so on. So it's a powerful strategy. So those will

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Speaker 1: be my two things. One is like, you are not alone.

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Speaker 1: What you're experiencing is normal. Everyone goes through this. But

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Speaker 1: then give yourself a strategy not to suppress and ignore

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Speaker 1: that emotion, but to kind of hang out with it

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Speaker 1: enough that you can get through it.

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Speaker 4: Here's a funny one too for stress is to schedule

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Speaker 4: time to worry, so that you put aside time and

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Speaker 4: like maybe it's once a week you're gonna worry, or

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Speaker 4: maybe it's every day you're gonna worry, but it's like,

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Speaker 4: don't do it right before you go to sleep, And

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Speaker 4: if you start to worry outside that time, it's like, well,

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Speaker 4: don't worry about that right now, because you've got your

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Speaker 4: time to worry. And what it does is it lets

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Speaker 4: you be feel free during the time when you're not

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Speaker 4: scheduled to worry, and then when you do, because it

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Speaker 4: is useful. Like anxiety, worry, anger, frustration. These are all

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Speaker 4: have positive roles to play. But it's like you're sitting

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Speaker 4: down and you're like, now is the time when I worry,

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Speaker 4: and like you can get out your pad of paper

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Speaker 4: and make a list of things to do, or you

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Speaker 4: can just you know, think it through. But I just

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Speaker 4: think that's so funny that you just put it on

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Speaker 4: your calendar, like a dentist appointment schedule.

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Speaker 3: Time to worry.

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Speaker 4: Okay, and this one is related, So I'm going to

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Speaker 4: kick it off to you too. How do you overcome

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Speaker 4: negative thoughts and patterns of overthinking?

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Speaker 1: So rumination, Yeah, rumination one of the biggest things that

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Speaker 1: I think comes up for my students in my class, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, these negative thought patterns that you can kind

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Speaker 1: of get into, and the overall hack there is to

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Speaker 1: try to get out of these sort of self focused thoughts.

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Speaker 2: A lot of our rumination is about me, me, me.

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Speaker 1: It's really about oh my gosh, I'm struggling, I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing enough, and really self critical.

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Speaker 2: I screwed up, I screwed.

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Speaker 1: Up, right, But it's also about you, And there's lots

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Speaker 1: of evidence that if you can just perspective, take a

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Speaker 1: little bit right, make it not about me, me me.

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Speaker 1: But even like third person, like Laurie, you're going through

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Speaker 1: a tough time, for example, that can actually take some

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Speaker 1: of the pain of that overthinking away. It sounds really

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Speaker 1: silly just changing the pronouns that you use to talk

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Speaker 1: to yourself, but there's evidence that speaking in the first person,

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Speaker 1: I'm messing up, I'm doing et cetera, versus like, hey, Laurie,

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Speaker 1: you got a tough thing going on, right, third person,

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Speaker 1: second person. If you think about it, when when you

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Speaker 1: hear you refer to yourself and you hear your name,

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Speaker 1: it's usually somebody else saying it, right, it's often a

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Speaker 1: mentor or a friend, right, and your brain doesn't know

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Speaker 1: the difference. Your brain is like, oh, a wise counsel

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Speaker 1: is you know, someone who really cares about me is

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Speaker 1: explaining to me what I should do. And it means

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Speaker 1: when you use that third person to talk to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I was talking to my husband Mark

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Speaker 1: and I said Mark blah blah blah, like I'm often

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Speaker 1: in wise counsel mode, I'm often in the mode of comforting, right,

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Speaker 1: And so just the act of switching your head.

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Speaker 4: I think another way to say this is we're much

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Speaker 4: better giving advice to other people than taking it ourselves.

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Speaker 4: And so it's a way to fake yourself out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a way to fake yourself out so that

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Speaker 1: you talk to yourself like a friend, which we don't

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Speaker 1: normally do. And if you really want to up the ante,

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Speaker 1: you can use the favorite strategy that I love from

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Speaker 1: Ethan Cross, who's a professor who talks a lot about overthinking.

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Speaker 1: If you want a great book on overthinking, check out

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Speaker 1: his book Chatter. He often uses the sort of what

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Speaker 1: would so and so do? It is a very famous

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Speaker 1: study with kids where you asked kids, what would Batman do?

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Speaker 1: You don't have to use Batman, you know, but you

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Speaker 1: can use you know, what would Beyonce do?

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Speaker 2: What would my mom do? What would you know?

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Speaker 1: Like a why pick the wise person in your life

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Speaker 1: and use that phrase and so getting out of the

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Speaker 1: self self self by using your name in third person,

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Speaker 1: or if that's not working, jump to a different very

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Speaker 1: wise third person.

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Speaker 2: Lots of evidence that that helps a lot.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 1: All right, So now I have one for you you

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Speaker 1: it's actually.

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Speaker 2: For both of us.

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Speaker 1: But I'm ali like Wratch answer right, So you focused

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Speaker 1: on the importance of human connection as a critical component

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Speaker 1: of creating happiness, something that we've both talked a lot about,

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Speaker 1: but this message wasn't highly discussed that much pre pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So what do we think the impact of the US

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Speaker 1: Surgeon General's recent social connection framework will be? Will inspire

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Speaker 1: people to take this issue more seriously and so just

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Speaker 1: bracketed for folks that don't know our surgeon general will

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Speaker 1: be big murthy just issued this huge on his new

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Speaker 1: priority right now, which is fighting loneliness and social disconnection.

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Speaker 2: And he wants to.

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Speaker 1: Do that both with sort of individual strategies and sort

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Speaker 1: of changing public infrastructure to make people less lonely. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of his big push, which is kind of cool,

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Speaker 1: right that, Like on the yields of a pandemic, the

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Speaker 1: push that the Surgeon General is going for is not,

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Speaker 1: you know, fighting future disease and so on. He's really

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Speaker 1: focused on loneliness, which is pretty cool. But Gretchen and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you this question because I think

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Speaker 1: when you heard it, you kind of disagreed with the

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Speaker 1: premise a little bit.

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Speaker 3: If I recall, Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 4: People have been very focused on loneliness for a while. Like,

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Speaker 4: I think it's wonderful that he's shining a spotlight on

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Speaker 4: it in particular right now. But I do think it's

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Speaker 4: something that, because it is so well established how important

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Speaker 4: human connection is to us, that I think even pre

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Speaker 4: pandemic people were very aware that we needed to think

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Speaker 4: about people who were isolated, think about people who were

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Speaker 4: drifting away, people who had no friends or few friends.

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Speaker 4: The role of relationships to the work place, Like when

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Speaker 4: they do studies of people at work who are happy,

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Speaker 4: often those are people who people who say they have

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Speaker 4: a friend at work, not just like an acquaintance, but

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Speaker 4: a friend, like somebody that they could confide an important

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Speaker 4: secret to, or that they feel like has their back,

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Speaker 4: or like they're direct the person they directly report to.

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Speaker 3: Does that person really care.

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Speaker 4: About them and want to see them succeed in their

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Speaker 4: own aims for themselves. So I think there was a

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Speaker 4: lot of awareness, There was a lot of research, and

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Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of popular awareness of it,

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Speaker 4: But I think you almost can't focus on it too

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Speaker 4: much because it is kind of the centerpiece for a

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Speaker 4: happy life, and so anything that helps us either broaden

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Speaker 4: our connections or deepen our connections or improve the quality

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Speaker 4: of our connections is something that is going to be

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Speaker 4: good for the individual and good good for society.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's worth saying good for the individual,

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Speaker 1: both in terms of your mental health, but also in

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Speaker 1: terms of your physical health.

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Speaker 4: That is astonishing. The physical consequences of loneliness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean two of my favorite stats, one that you

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Speaker 1: might have heard on the podcast before is that saying

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Speaker 1: that you're lonely is the equivalent health effect on your

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Speaker 1: longevity of smoking fifteen cigarettes a day, And it has

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Speaker 1: twice to three times the negative effect that saying your

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Speaker 1: obese has. Right, So these are like truly public health

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Speaker 1: issues that we're dealing with. I think on the podcast

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Speaker 1: when I talked about it, I said it should if

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Speaker 1: we loneliness should have one of those health warnings like

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Speaker 1: on those like you know, pharmaceutical ads where it's like

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Speaker 1: may cause like premature death and cancer and all these

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Speaker 1: says like and like lack of sleep and so on.

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Speaker 1: It's because really it's actually a health issue. So in

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Speaker 1: some ways it makes sense that the Surgeon General's focused

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Speaker 1: on it because loneliness might actually be killing more people than.

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Speaker 4: We and I think the new workplace is something that

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Speaker 4: we're only starting to grapple with now. How it's going

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Speaker 4: to trickle down and affect people's relationship and I think

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Speaker 4: for some people it's going to be very positive and

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Speaker 4: that for some people it could be quite negative, and

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Speaker 4: it could it could increase loneliness and isolation, and so again,

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Speaker 4: I think it's something that we really need to think

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Speaker 4: through and how as we confront new issues, how they're

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Speaker 4: going to affect loneliness for better or for worse.

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Speaker 2: And just a little advertisement.

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Speaker 1: Our next season that we haven't announced yet is on

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Speaker 1: what we're calling fighting under Sociality.

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Speaker 2: Under Sociality is.

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Speaker 3: Our install I cannot wait to listen our.

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Speaker 1: Instinct that, you know, when we're having a tough day,

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Speaker 1: we definitely don't want to hang out with a friend.

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Speaker 1: We want to like go plopped out and look at

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Speaker 1: a screen by ourselves. So how can we, you know,

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Speaker 1: fight our urge to not be social when we most

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Speaker 1: need to.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to listen. That is

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Speaker 4: that's well you heard it here first we got yeah, no,

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Speaker 4: Well but so okay, okay, let's take a minute and

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Speaker 4: talk about this though. This is something I want you

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Speaker 4: to talk about in your podcast, because I think on

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Speaker 4: the one hand, people know, yeah, I'm happier when I

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Speaker 4: get out there A lot of times I don't want

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Speaker 4: to go, but then when I show up, I'm glad

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Speaker 4: that I went.

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Speaker 3: Yes. But on the other hand, I think.

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Speaker 4: Now more than ever, people are saying, hey, be kind

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Speaker 4: to yourself, don't push yourself.

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Speaker 3: If you need to take take it easy, take it easy.

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Speaker 4: But sometimes that means that we're staying home in our

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Speaker 4: sweats instead of like gearing up to go out, even

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Speaker 4: though in the end probably the going out would make

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Speaker 4: us happier. How do we know the difference between like

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Speaker 4: healthy attention to our own you know, sense of energy,

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Speaker 4: and when we need to push ourselves to engage with

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Speaker 4: others because that is such a source of happiness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad you asked this question because it's

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Speaker 1: one of the episodes that I'm most excited about. In

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Speaker 1: this Undersociality series, we interview this wonderful woman, Jessica Pan

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Speaker 1: who's a self proclaimed introvert, and she has this lovely

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Speaker 1: book called Sorry I'm Late. I didn't want to come.

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Speaker 3: Colon I seen the T shirt.

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Speaker 1: An introverts Guide to saying yes, and so Jessica's stories

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Speaker 1: that she moved with she's American. She moved with her

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Speaker 1: partner to the UK and realized she just didn't have friends,

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Speaker 1: and she just was like, I have to go out

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Speaker 1: and make friends.

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Speaker 2: I'm an introvert, I.

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Speaker 1: Hate social I hate being social, but like I need

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Speaker 1: to do something. And so she in a very Gretchen

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, all or nothing way, it was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm going to go full extrovert. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to like give speeches. She went to the Edinburgh Comedy

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Speaker 1: Festival and did stand up. She just went like full

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Speaker 1: extra I aim extrovert, and what she found was that

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Speaker 1: as she did it more and more, it worked easier.

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Speaker 1: Like she had very strong predictions that this was going

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Speaker 1: to be terrible in all these forms, even like talking

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Speaker 1: to a stranger or talking to someone at a networking event,

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Speaker 1: and what she found was it was always better than

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Speaker 1: she expected. And this is completely consistent with their research.

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Speaker 1: Researchers like Nick Epley at the University of Chicago and

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Speaker 1: others have found that we mispredict social connection.

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Speaker 2: He's the one.

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Speaker 1: If you remember the Happiness Lap episode that forced people

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Speaker 1: to talk on trains. You know, You're taking your commuter

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Speaker 1: train home and Nick comes up to you with a

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Speaker 1: ten dollars Starbucks gift card and says, hey, do you want,

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Speaker 1: you know, to be in the study. You get the

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Speaker 1: gift card and you say yes, because ten dollars Starbucks

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Speaker 1: gift cards are the engine of all of social science

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Speaker 1: research where you get nothing done if it wasn't but

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Speaker 1: you say yeah, and Nick says, hey, for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the train ride, I want you to make a

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Speaker 1: connection with someone, or for the rest of the train ride,

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Speaker 1: I want you to enjoy your solitude. He has you

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Speaker 1: predict you know, whether you're going to enjoy that. Everybody

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Speaker 1: across the personality spectrum says the talking is going to

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Speaker 1: be awkward and weird. Introverts say it's going to be

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Speaker 1: extremely awkward and weird. I think the scale doesn't go

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Speaker 1: low enough for what they want to rate it. But

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Speaker 1: everyone gets a happiness benefit from it. And this was

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Speaker 1: what Jessica saw time and time again, is that even

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Speaker 1: these scary things that she thought were going to feel awful,

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Speaker 1: when you really are connecting with another person, it feels

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Speaker 1: better than you expect. And so her advice is to

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Speaker 1: really notice that you have this misprediction, right, you might

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Speaker 1: totally have had a tough day at work, and you

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Speaker 1: might really have exactly the prediction you were saying Gretchen,

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Speaker 1: which's like I just want self care, I need to

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Speaker 1: know my energy levels, blah blah blah. But recognize that

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Speaker 1: your own calibration of that is off, and if you

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Speaker 1: could just push yourself like fifteen percent more, you might

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Speaker 1: end up happier.

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Speaker 4: He donic prediction, right, This is people are not We're

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Speaker 4: not very good at predicting what's going to make us happier,

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Speaker 4: which is too bad. Okay, So here is a question

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Speaker 4: for you, Laurie. I've been listening to your podcast now

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Speaker 4: for three years. I assume you have been teaching your

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Speaker 4: course for at least that long. Have you noticed whether

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Speaker 4: your student body has noticeably changed in terms of level

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Speaker 4: of happiness. I realize the pandemic has impacted a lot

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Speaker 4: of us mentally, and students in particular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the first time I taught my class

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Speaker 1: was back in twenty eighteen, when it was probably a

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Speaker 1: little prescient to be thinking about mental health and happiness.

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Speaker 1: Because I think in the years that have transpired since then,

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Speaker 1: it's been sort of a dumpster fire for happiness, right,

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Speaker 1: and so the right comparison isn't like, you know, have

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Speaker 1: things gotten better in the whole student population because of

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Speaker 1: these kind of external factors. But one thing we have

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Speaker 1: been looking at is whether or not the Corsera class

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Speaker 1: online it's called Signs of well Being. We have a

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Speaker 1: new one called Signs of well Being for Teens, so

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Speaker 1: make sure you get your teenagers to take it. That's

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Speaker 1: a spot where we've been able to carefully calibrate whether

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Speaker 1: or not people are feeling happier from before to after.

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Speaker 1: And in studies, in collaboration with another researcher, Bruce Hood

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Speaker 1: who's at the University of Bristol, who's been doing it

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Speaker 1: in his students, he's actually been able to look longitudinally

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Speaker 1: at students who take a version of the happiness class

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Speaker 1: that he teaches at Bristol. And what we're finding is

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Speaker 1: that it kind of works. It at least works, you know,

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Speaker 1: from before to after you either get a small but

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Speaker 1: significant boost and happiness. Usually it's on like imagine like

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Speaker 1: a ten point happiness survey usually go up about a

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Speaker 1: point that's a small but significant and that those effects

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Speaker 1: seem to last at least three to six months out,

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Speaker 1: which is the longest we've kind of looked. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to do these longitudinal studies because like you got

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Speaker 1: to track people over time. And so the answer seems

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Speaker 1: to be if you teach people these things and you

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Speaker 1: give them like homework and you kind of train them

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Speaker 1: up to put it into practice, it can stick with

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Speaker 1: them for how long.

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Speaker 2: We don't know.

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Speaker 1: As Gretchen said that you can change, but to have

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Speaker 1: changes that stick is really tricky. So it does seem like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're getting these small but significant effects.

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Speaker 2: We've got a head to a quick break.

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Speaker 1: But worry not, because Gretchen and I will be answering

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Speaker 1: even more audience questions when we return. The Happiness Lab

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Speaker 1: will be right back. Welcome back to the special live

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Speaker 1: Q and A that I hosted at the Hot Dogs

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Speaker 1: Festival alongside podcaster and best selling author Gretchen Rubin. So far,

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Speaker 1: the Toronto fans have probed us on how to feel

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Speaker 1: happier when you're in survival mode and how to engage

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Speaker 1: in happier social connection. But our curious audience wasn't done there.

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Speaker 1: In fact, their next question went much bigger asking how

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Speaker 1: the fight for our individual happiness can help heal our

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Speaker 1: ailing world.

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Speaker 4: How can happiness also be turned into creating a more equitable,

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Speaker 4: socially just world when we are living in a time

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Speaker 4: of great polarities, greed and lack of democracy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad whoever asks us.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know who you are, but thank you

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Speaker 1: for whoever asked this question, because I think this comes up.

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Speaker 1: This comes up a lot in my work and in

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Speaker 1: Gretchen's work. Right, Like a lot of the strategies we're

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Speaker 1: talking about are at.

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Speaker 2: The individual level.

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Speaker 1: Right, Individually, you can engage with your senses more individually,

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Speaker 1: you can make a little bit more social connection and

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Speaker 1: doing so, oh, you know, the data seemed to suggest

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Speaker 1: can give you a small but significant boost and happiness.

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Speaker 1: And I think folks really worry about that, right, Folks say, like, Okay,

437
00:19:08,676 --> 00:19:11,316
Speaker 1: that's great for that one individual, but have you just

438
00:19:11,356 --> 00:19:14,476
Speaker 1: made that person you know more pollyannish or those people

439
00:19:14,716 --> 00:19:16,636
Speaker 1: you know happier and they're good with their lives. But

440
00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:18,516
Speaker 1: that means they're not going to engage with all the

441
00:19:18,516 --> 00:19:21,236
Speaker 1: problems of the world. Like in some ways is like

442
00:19:21,316 --> 00:19:24,276
Speaker 1: reinforcing people's individual happiness sort of at odds with the

443
00:19:24,356 --> 00:19:26,836
Speaker 1: structural changes I think we all know we need to

444
00:19:26,836 --> 00:19:30,436
Speaker 1: make to make ourselves happier and a happier society. And

445
00:19:30,476 --> 00:19:32,676
Speaker 1: this is a spot where researchers are starting to look

446
00:19:32,716 --> 00:19:35,316
Speaker 1: in a little bit more detail, right, kind of asking

447
00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:37,756
Speaker 1: that question, if you become happier yourself, does that mean

448
00:19:37,796 --> 00:19:40,436
Speaker 1: you do less good stuff for other people in the

449
00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:43,036
Speaker 1: world and so on? And the answer so far seems

450
00:19:43,076 --> 00:19:45,716
Speaker 1: to be no, just the opposite, Like when you are

451
00:19:45,756 --> 00:19:49,116
Speaker 1: feeling happier usually measured if you're in a more positive mood,

452
00:19:49,396 --> 00:19:51,596
Speaker 1: you wind up doing more nice stuff for other people.

453
00:19:51,636 --> 00:19:53,516
Speaker 1: There's this thing called the feel good do good effect,

454
00:19:53,516 --> 00:19:54,956
Speaker 1: whereas like, if you're in a good mood, you kind

455
00:19:54,996 --> 00:19:57,956
Speaker 1: of do nicer stuff for other people. But there's evidence

456
00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:00,716
Speaker 1: from folks like Constantin kush Lef at Georgetown that this

457
00:20:00,796 --> 00:20:04,076
Speaker 1: actually impacts the world too. So he looks at things

458
00:20:04,116 --> 00:20:06,916
Speaker 1: like who's taking action towards climate change by like, you know,

459
00:20:06,916 --> 00:20:09,916
Speaker 1: I don't installing solar panels or going to a climate protest.

460
00:20:10,516 --> 00:20:13,356
Speaker 1: Who's engaging in Black Lives Matter movement not just saying

461
00:20:13,396 --> 00:20:16,276
Speaker 1: they're worried about social justice stuff, but actually doing things,

462
00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:18,436
Speaker 1: And what you find is that the people who self

463
00:20:18,476 --> 00:20:20,836
Speaker 1: report having the highest positive mood, right, and.

464
00:20:20,756 --> 00:20:21,836
Speaker 2: We kind of get it right.

465
00:20:21,916 --> 00:20:24,036
Speaker 1: You know, if you're feeling down in the dumps, if

466
00:20:24,036 --> 00:20:26,956
Speaker 1: you're in that struggle mode, if you have no bandwidth yourself,

467
00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:29,436
Speaker 1: you can't face on head on the problems of the world.

468
00:20:29,916 --> 00:20:32,356
Speaker 1: And so that means that in some ways, my hope

469
00:20:32,396 --> 00:20:35,436
Speaker 1: is that these individual solutions are at least kind of

470
00:20:35,716 --> 00:20:37,956
Speaker 1: and can be used in conjunction with a lot of

471
00:20:37,956 --> 00:20:40,996
Speaker 1: these structural changes, that it'll make it easier for people

472
00:20:41,036 --> 00:20:42,676
Speaker 1: to engage in some of the stuff that we all

473
00:20:42,676 --> 00:20:44,396
Speaker 1: need to engage with to fick the stuff that we

474
00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:46,676
Speaker 1: know is wrong with the world. And I especially love

475
00:20:46,716 --> 00:20:48,396
Speaker 1: that for my Yale students. You know, I look at

476
00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:51,636
Speaker 1: the stats right now nationally for college students, where forty

477
00:20:51,636 --> 00:20:54,316
Speaker 1: percent of college students report being too depressed to function

478
00:20:54,436 --> 00:20:58,396
Speaker 1: most days, almost seventy percent say that they're overwhelmingly anxious,

479
00:20:58,436 --> 00:21:01,116
Speaker 1: more than one in ten has seriously considered suicide in

480
00:21:01,156 --> 00:21:03,756
Speaker 1: the last six months. And I look to this generation,

481
00:21:03,796 --> 00:21:05,396
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you're the ones that have to fix all

482
00:21:05,436 --> 00:21:08,196
Speaker 1: the stuff that my generation messed up, Like they're not

483
00:21:08,236 --> 00:21:10,196
Speaker 1: going to be able to do that unless they have

484
00:21:10,796 --> 00:21:12,316
Speaker 1: some way to kind of deal with a lot of

485
00:21:12,316 --> 00:21:14,596
Speaker 1: that negative emotion, a lot of those mental health issues.

486
00:21:14,596 --> 00:21:17,556
Speaker 1: And so I love this question because it shows we

487
00:21:17,596 --> 00:21:21,436
Speaker 1: can create a more equitable, just society if we all start.

488
00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:26,636
Speaker 2: Putting our own oxygen masks. Onto leave it.

489
00:21:26,636 --> 00:21:32,236
Speaker 3: At that, ditto, that's enough.

490
00:21:32,316 --> 00:21:33,596
Speaker 2: Okay, good, that's enough. Yeah, good?

491
00:21:33,716 --> 00:21:34,956
Speaker 3: Living on, let me drop mic.

492
00:21:35,156 --> 00:21:37,516
Speaker 1: How do we be real and honest with our emotions.

493
00:21:37,676 --> 00:21:40,196
Speaker 1: Let's say we're grieving, We're truly sad from a major

494
00:21:40,236 --> 00:21:42,916
Speaker 1: life event, yet be truly present in our lives and

495
00:21:42,956 --> 00:21:45,316
Speaker 1: see the beauty. How can we actually do that, like

496
00:21:45,396 --> 00:21:47,996
Speaker 1: experience happiness in the moment of these kind of times

497
00:21:47,996 --> 00:21:48,396
Speaker 1: of grief.

498
00:21:48,396 --> 00:21:50,276
Speaker 2: How can we be real with what we're going through?

499
00:21:50,556 --> 00:21:50,716
Speaker 3: Well?

500
00:21:50,796 --> 00:21:53,596
Speaker 4: I think that again, I think that so many aims

501
00:21:53,596 --> 00:21:54,316
Speaker 4: within happiness.

502
00:21:54,316 --> 00:21:56,316
Speaker 3: There's a way to think about it through the five senses.

503
00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:58,316
Speaker 4: And I think the five senses is a great might

504
00:21:58,356 --> 00:22:01,716
Speaker 4: be a great solace here because even when let's say

505
00:22:01,716 --> 00:22:05,156
Speaker 4: you're experiencing some kind of deep grief, of course you

506
00:22:05,996 --> 00:22:07,116
Speaker 4: wouldn't wish that away.

507
00:22:07,476 --> 00:22:08,916
Speaker 3: I mean negative.

508
00:22:09,236 --> 00:22:10,996
Speaker 4: I think sometimes people think that a happy life is

509
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:13,396
Speaker 4: a life with no negative emotions, and that's not possible.

510
00:22:13,436 --> 00:22:14,956
Speaker 3: And it wouldn't even be a good life. So you

511
00:22:14,996 --> 00:22:16,876
Speaker 3: want to you don't want to deny.

512
00:22:16,636 --> 00:22:19,676
Speaker 4: Your grief or or wave it aside, or or cover it,

513
00:22:19,716 --> 00:22:23,036
Speaker 4: you know, pretend that it's not there. But I think

514
00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:25,876
Speaker 4: that through the five senses it can give you solace

515
00:22:25,956 --> 00:22:28,516
Speaker 4: and comfort. And you know, certainly one way many people

516
00:22:28,556 --> 00:22:31,756
Speaker 4: experience this is through nature, because there is something so

517
00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:37,036
Speaker 4: timeless and so impersonal about like the great patterns of

518
00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:40,596
Speaker 4: nature and the and the great cycles of nature that

519
00:22:40,716 --> 00:22:42,916
Speaker 4: a lot. You know, this is a classic thing that

520
00:22:42,956 --> 00:22:45,836
Speaker 4: people will think about, is trying to put grief into

521
00:22:45,876 --> 00:22:47,236
Speaker 4: the context.

522
00:22:46,756 --> 00:22:47,876
Speaker 3: Of the natural world.

523
00:22:48,396 --> 00:22:50,556
Speaker 4: And the more that you can see here, smell, tastes,

524
00:22:50,596 --> 00:22:54,116
Speaker 4: touch it, really try to it can take you out

525
00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:56,596
Speaker 4: of yourself. And I experienced this at the MET because

526
00:22:57,196 --> 00:23:00,476
Speaker 4: I mean, when they talk about happiness, one thing that

527
00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:03,236
Speaker 4: clearly makes people happier is sort of moments of transcendence

528
00:23:03,276 --> 00:23:06,356
Speaker 4: and awe. And I really experienced that at the MET

529
00:23:06,396 --> 00:23:09,756
Speaker 4: and a sense of timelessness because it put everything in

530
00:23:09,796 --> 00:23:12,436
Speaker 4: such a sense of perspective, like we were going through

531
00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:15,556
Speaker 4: the pandemic, but there was all this art from hundreds

532
00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:18,276
Speaker 4: of years ago, thousands of years ago that was people

533
00:23:18,276 --> 00:23:20,996
Speaker 4: dealing with the plague like this is not a new thing.

534
00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:23,476
Speaker 4: I mean back to this idea of identifying with other

535
00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:26,116
Speaker 4: people you know, and just to see this is all,

536
00:23:26,836 --> 00:23:31,876
Speaker 4: this is just the deep patterns of time. And so

537
00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:33,676
Speaker 4: I think through the five senses you can you can

538
00:23:33,716 --> 00:23:36,596
Speaker 4: find that the transcendence and the awe that can help

539
00:23:36,676 --> 00:23:39,756
Speaker 4: give you a respite from your own you know, the

540
00:23:39,796 --> 00:23:41,956
Speaker 4: pain in your own life, not to deny it, but

541
00:23:41,996 --> 00:23:43,076
Speaker 4: to get out of it.

542
00:23:43,316 --> 00:23:45,316
Speaker 1: And I think another kind of way that you do

543
00:23:45,396 --> 00:23:47,556
Speaker 1: that with the five senses is you kind of get tiny.

544
00:23:47,716 --> 00:23:49,716
Speaker 1: I feel like I experienced this a lot in the pandemic,

545
00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:52,756
Speaker 1: when everything else felt so overwhelming, it was like, ah,

546
00:23:52,836 --> 00:23:55,796
Speaker 1: the taste of my morning coffee mug, it's warm, right.

547
00:23:55,796 --> 00:23:59,316
Speaker 3: Or just the little pleasures, the little sensation.

548
00:23:59,156 --> 00:24:01,796
Speaker 1: And those are even in the midst of the worst grief,

549
00:24:02,196 --> 00:24:04,516
Speaker 1: those are always there if you can kind of train

550
00:24:04,596 --> 00:24:06,316
Speaker 1: your intention to look.

551
00:24:06,316 --> 00:24:08,796
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the feel of a hot shower or yeah,

552
00:24:08,916 --> 00:24:10,476
Speaker 4: now absolutely.

553
00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:11,236
Speaker 2: Okay, here's a good one.

554
00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:13,396
Speaker 1: Because I don't actually know the answer to this question

555
00:24:13,516 --> 00:24:16,156
Speaker 1: is for Gretchen, what are what's some of the most

556
00:24:16,236 --> 00:24:18,956
Speaker 1: fascinating research that you looked at or you conducted that

557
00:24:18,996 --> 00:24:20,636
Speaker 1: you weren't able to include in your book.

558
00:24:22,596 --> 00:24:25,596
Speaker 3: Well, I tried ayahuasca. That was pretty weird.

559
00:24:27,516 --> 00:24:29,556
Speaker 4: I thought, Okay, this is going to be like five

560
00:24:29,596 --> 00:24:32,116
Speaker 4: cents of psychedelic experience. I almost thought like, oh, was

561
00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:34,996
Speaker 4: this going to be cheating because you know, it's like,

562
00:24:35,236 --> 00:24:40,076
Speaker 4: you know, artificially amplified. But and it was a whole

563
00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:44,196
Speaker 4: thing which I wrote about and then but so what

564
00:24:44,356 --> 00:24:48,236
Speaker 4: actually happened was so I'm a real morning person and

565
00:24:48,396 --> 00:24:50,636
Speaker 4: this was all happening very very very late at night.

566
00:24:50,916 --> 00:24:53,476
Speaker 4: The whole it was a whole journey, very late at night.

567
00:24:53,556 --> 00:24:57,236
Speaker 4: So I took the ayahuasca, immediately, threw up three times,

568
00:24:58,316 --> 00:25:03,796
Speaker 4: fell asleep, and woke up totally normal. So as like

569
00:25:03,836 --> 00:25:06,596
Speaker 4: a five census experience. It was a complete bus So

570
00:25:06,636 --> 00:25:09,596
Speaker 4: I wrote this whole thing in my from my like

571
00:25:09,676 --> 00:25:12,116
Speaker 4: this happened, then that happened, and then this other thing happened,

572
00:25:12,596 --> 00:25:15,436
Speaker 4: and my editor was like, but you know, in the end,

573
00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:16,836
Speaker 4: really nothing did happen.

574
00:25:18,356 --> 00:25:19,436
Speaker 3: Let's leave it out.

575
00:25:19,596 --> 00:25:22,316
Speaker 4: And so it was a huge experience for me, and

576
00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:26,316
Speaker 4: it was definitely a huge Uh if one of the

577
00:25:26,356 --> 00:25:28,676
Speaker 4: things that makes us happier, it's realizing that we can

578
00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:30,516
Speaker 4: put ourselves out of our comfort zone, and we could

579
00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:32,716
Speaker 4: truly surprise ourselves and do something that we did not

580
00:25:32,756 --> 00:25:35,036
Speaker 4: think that we could do. I definitely did do that.

581
00:25:35,076 --> 00:25:37,116
Speaker 4: So it was a huge appinist booster in that respect.

582
00:25:37,156 --> 00:25:41,836
Speaker 4: But from a five census perspective, nothing. Here's another piece

583
00:25:41,876 --> 00:25:44,396
Speaker 4: of fascinating research that I just moved around. I kept

584
00:25:44,436 --> 00:25:46,636
Speaker 4: trying to stick it into the book. This my agent

585
00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:49,156
Speaker 4: calls this no note card left behind, which is when

586
00:25:49,236 --> 00:25:50,916
Speaker 4: you just want to get every fact into a book.

587
00:25:51,316 --> 00:25:53,916
Speaker 4: So we're our senses are more sensitive at the low

588
00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:56,276
Speaker 4: level than at the high level. Like you're much better

589
00:25:56,356 --> 00:25:59,436
Speaker 4: at judging the sweetness of crackers than the sweetness of

590
00:25:59,476 --> 00:26:02,876
Speaker 4: cinnamon buns. And you're much better at gauging the weight

591
00:26:03,036 --> 00:26:07,036
Speaker 4: of a mixing bowl than of a bowling ball.

592
00:26:07,236 --> 00:26:10,556
Speaker 3: How does this fit in? No, it does not. I

593
00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:13,556
Speaker 3: was fascinated by this. I don't know why. It's just interesting.

594
00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:16,196
Speaker 4: It doesn't appear in the book because I just as

595
00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:18,116
Speaker 4: much as I tried to jam it in there, I

596
00:26:18,156 --> 00:26:19,356
Speaker 4: could not make it relevant.

597
00:26:20,676 --> 00:26:23,556
Speaker 1: But it does suggest that your taste party more crackers,

598
00:26:23,636 --> 00:26:24,196
Speaker 1: less cinnamon.

599
00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:25,876
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, And that's right.

600
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:30,476
Speaker 4: We tried apples, yeah, not chocolate, chocolate chip ice crept.

601
00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:31,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, and your ayahuasca experience can.

602
00:26:32,636 --> 00:26:35,436
Speaker 4: So I challenge you to consider placebo effect with the

603
00:26:35,676 --> 00:26:37,396
Speaker 4: all the new research on psychedelics.

604
00:26:37,516 --> 00:26:38,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of the.

605
00:26:38,436 --> 00:26:40,716
Speaker 1: Negative effects too, because it turns out I didn't know

606
00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:44,156
Speaker 1: this statistic, but even in these very controlled clinical settings,

607
00:26:44,156 --> 00:26:46,756
Speaker 1: there's a lot of clinical folks who are using psychedelics

608
00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:50,476
Speaker 1: now potentially as treatments. Between ten to twenty percent have

609
00:26:50,556 --> 00:26:53,036
Speaker 1: a really awful trip and awful experience. Did you read

610
00:26:53,076 --> 00:26:56,076
Speaker 1: an patch it's essay, Yeah, yeah, so it's like it's

611
00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:59,396
Speaker 1: higher than people think. So anyway, we're winding down, and

612
00:26:59,476 --> 00:27:03,276
Speaker 1: we both liked the following question as a final question,

613
00:27:03,596 --> 00:27:05,436
Speaker 1: so I'll ask it to Gretchen first and then she

614
00:27:05,476 --> 00:27:06,116
Speaker 1: can ask it to me.

615
00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:09,116
Speaker 2: What do people get wrong about happiness?

616
00:27:09,156 --> 00:27:09,396
Speaker 3: Yes?

617
00:27:10,596 --> 00:27:12,836
Speaker 4: I think that one thing people get wrong about happiness

618
00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:15,196
Speaker 4: is that they think that there's one right way, and

619
00:27:15,236 --> 00:27:17,196
Speaker 4: they think there's one best way, and they think that

620
00:27:17,316 --> 00:27:19,916
Speaker 4: research shows that this is the way that you should

621
00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:22,796
Speaker 4: do it, and I'm right and you're wrong, or maybe

622
00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:25,516
Speaker 4: you're right and I'm wrong. And what I find is

623
00:27:25,516 --> 00:27:28,516
Speaker 4: that there is no one right way. It's only what

624
00:27:28,636 --> 00:27:31,316
Speaker 4: works for the individual, and that each of us has

625
00:27:31,356 --> 00:27:36,236
Speaker 4: to create our own happiness project for ourselves, taking into

626
00:27:36,276 --> 00:27:39,516
Speaker 4: account our own nature, our own interests, our own values,

627
00:27:39,676 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 4: our own idiosyncrasies, our own five senses, and that if

628
00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:46,116
Speaker 4: somebody says to you things like, well, you know, if

629
00:27:46,116 --> 00:27:47,876
Speaker 4: something's important to you, you should get up and do it

630
00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:49,796
Speaker 4: first thing, before you start your day, because that's when

631
00:27:49,796 --> 00:27:51,636
Speaker 4: you're going to be at your freshness. So if something's

632
00:27:51,636 --> 00:27:53,956
Speaker 4: important to you, you should do it first thing. It's like, well,

633
00:27:53,956 --> 00:27:56,436
Speaker 4: that's good advice if you're a morning person, but it's

634
00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:58,996
Speaker 4: terrible advice if you're a night person, because your most

635
00:27:58,996 --> 00:28:01,956
Speaker 4: creative and productive and energetic later in the day. Or

636
00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:07,236
Speaker 4: maybe people will say, well, you know, if you want

637
00:28:07,236 --> 00:28:11,116
Speaker 4: to concentrate, you really need to have silence once you

638
00:28:11,116 --> 00:28:13,236
Speaker 4: don't have any business listening to music if you're trying

639
00:28:13,276 --> 00:28:16,156
Speaker 4: to do high mental work, and it's like, well, that's

640
00:28:16,196 --> 00:28:18,796
Speaker 4: just not true. Some people like silence. Some people like

641
00:28:18,836 --> 00:28:20,756
Speaker 4: a busy hum like a coffee shop. Some people like

642
00:28:20,836 --> 00:28:22,996
Speaker 4: music with words, some people like music without words. Some

643
00:28:23,036 --> 00:28:25,476
Speaker 4: people like white noise, brown noise, pink noise, green noise.

644
00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:28,076
Speaker 4: It all depends on what we're few. I did this

645
00:28:28,116 --> 00:28:29,916
Speaker 4: with my daughters. I would say to them, if you're

646
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:31,716
Speaker 4: gonna work, you have to be at a desk. I

647
00:28:31,756 --> 00:28:33,916
Speaker 4: would have a desk in the bathroom. I have to

648
00:28:33,996 --> 00:28:36,356
Speaker 4: have a desk, and they didn't. They would sit on

649
00:28:36,356 --> 00:28:37,956
Speaker 4: the floor, they'd sit on their bed. And then I

650
00:28:38,036 --> 00:28:40,436
Speaker 4: realized a lot of people just don't use a desk.

651
00:28:40,876 --> 00:28:42,476
Speaker 4: There is nothing magic about a desk.

652
00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:43,916
Speaker 1: This is why it's fun to have Gretchen and I

653
00:28:44,036 --> 00:28:46,116
Speaker 1: up here because I think in many we both study

654
00:28:46,116 --> 00:28:48,356
Speaker 1: happiness and know the research and stuff. But in many respects,

655
00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:50,916
Speaker 1: I think personally we have very different preferences. I need

656
00:28:51,116 --> 00:28:52,116
Speaker 1: incredible noise.

657
00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:56,276
Speaker 4: You do, absolutely can what kind of music, din anything.

658
00:28:56,956 --> 00:29:00,236
Speaker 1: When I took my exams in college, which is in Boston,

659
00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:03,156
Speaker 1: I actually went to the T station and sat against

660
00:29:03,196 --> 00:29:06,036
Speaker 1: a dirty wall and just did my work there because

661
00:29:06,076 --> 00:29:09,356
Speaker 1: I needed that much noise. Sometimes at Yale, when I

662
00:29:09,396 --> 00:29:10,996
Speaker 1: had to write a very important grant, I would go

663
00:29:11,076 --> 00:29:12,916
Speaker 1: to the Mohegan Sun casino and not.

664
00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:13,796
Speaker 3: Gim oh my god.

665
00:29:13,916 --> 00:29:15,956
Speaker 1: I would just sit in the loudness, like in the

666
00:29:15,956 --> 00:29:18,156
Speaker 1: corner and with my laptop and write a grant. So like,

667
00:29:18,196 --> 00:29:22,036
Speaker 1: the more I have to concentrate, the more crazy noise.

668
00:29:22,116 --> 00:29:24,436
Speaker 1: I need no desk either, just sitting kind of curled

669
00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:25,076
Speaker 1: up in a corner.

670
00:29:25,316 --> 00:29:27,076
Speaker 4: But you can see how this becomes a problem, like

671
00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:28,876
Speaker 4: with somebody in an office, because if I'm the boss

672
00:29:28,876 --> 00:29:30,636
Speaker 4: and I'm like, a clutter does mean it's a cluttered mind.

673
00:29:30,636 --> 00:29:31,396
Speaker 3: Everybody's got to have.

674
00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:33,796
Speaker 4: A clean desk. And silence is how people concentrate. So

675
00:29:33,876 --> 00:29:36,636
Speaker 4: let's bring the noise down. I mean, who's to say?

676
00:29:37,356 --> 00:29:40,276
Speaker 4: And like, I could show you research showing sixty percent

677
00:29:40,276 --> 00:29:42,756
Speaker 4: of people need silence, but it doesn't matter data point

678
00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:45,556
Speaker 4: of one, most important data point, data point of you.

679
00:29:46,956 --> 00:29:48,036
Speaker 3: And so I think that a.

680
00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:50,156
Speaker 4: Lot of times people have this search for the best way,

681
00:29:50,236 --> 00:29:51,716
Speaker 4: the right way, and I think sometimes they turn to

682
00:29:51,716 --> 00:29:54,116
Speaker 4: science or they justify it with science, saying, well, this

683
00:29:54,196 --> 00:29:56,316
Speaker 4: is what science shows. But in the end, it's like,

684
00:29:56,636 --> 00:29:59,476
Speaker 4: but what's your experience, When have you succeeded in the past,

685
00:29:59,516 --> 00:30:01,676
Speaker 4: what works for you, what appeals to you, what helps

686
00:30:01,716 --> 00:30:05,076
Speaker 4: you do what you want to do, and what matters

687
00:30:05,076 --> 00:30:07,356
Speaker 4: to you? Because people have such different things that matter

688
00:30:07,396 --> 00:30:09,756
Speaker 4: to them. So I feel like the I feel like

689
00:30:09,836 --> 00:30:14,316
Speaker 4: that's the part that people often overlook, is that we've

690
00:30:14,316 --> 00:30:15,876
Speaker 4: all got to figure it out for ourselves.

691
00:30:15,916 --> 00:30:17,356
Speaker 3: So how about you, what do you think people get

692
00:30:17,396 --> 00:30:18,276
Speaker 3: wrong about happiness.

693
00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:20,476
Speaker 1: So my answer winds up with the same I think

694
00:30:20,996 --> 00:30:22,996
Speaker 1: like final answer, which is that we've kind of got

695
00:30:22,996 --> 00:30:24,796
Speaker 1: to figure it out for ourselves, that doing our own

696
00:30:24,836 --> 00:30:27,796
Speaker 1: experiment is important. But I think what people get wrong

697
00:30:27,796 --> 00:30:29,916
Speaker 1: about happiness is so many things. I mean, I think

698
00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:34,036
Speaker 1: the thing we just have our minds lie to us, right,

699
00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:35,996
Speaker 1: this is the whole premise of the happiness lab. And

700
00:30:35,996 --> 00:30:38,396
Speaker 1: I think our minds lie to us about so much. Right,

701
00:30:38,596 --> 00:30:41,116
Speaker 1: we just talked about social connection. Our minds think, oh,

702
00:30:41,276 --> 00:30:43,116
Speaker 1: just plopping down and looking at the screen is going

703
00:30:43,156 --> 00:30:45,316
Speaker 1: to feel great, when gutting out and talking to somebody

704
00:30:45,356 --> 00:30:49,356
Speaker 1: would feel better. Like, that's just the tip of the misconception, Iceberg,

705
00:30:49,436 --> 00:30:52,036
Speaker 1: there's a billion you know, changing my circumstances. If I

706
00:30:52,076 --> 00:30:54,156
Speaker 1: want to be happier, I need a new job, I

707
00:30:54,156 --> 00:30:56,476
Speaker 1: need to change these things, when in fact, subtle changes

708
00:30:56,516 --> 00:30:59,396
Speaker 1: to our behavior and our mindset matter more. And so

709
00:30:59,836 --> 00:31:01,516
Speaker 1: for me, this is the big one, right, It's that

710
00:31:01,556 --> 00:31:04,116
Speaker 1: we're walking around with these brains that have all these

711
00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:07,036
Speaker 1: misconceptions that are telling us motivating us, Hey, go out

712
00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:09,556
Speaker 1: and do these things and you'll feel happier and buy

713
00:31:09,596 --> 00:31:11,916
Speaker 1: and large. A lot of those intuitions are wrong, Like

714
00:31:11,956 --> 00:31:13,916
Speaker 1: some of the inductionsis you get wrong because the science

715
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:16,756
Speaker 1: are these like kind of these platitudes and things, but

716
00:31:16,836 --> 00:31:18,676
Speaker 1: some are just our own intuitions about this is going

717
00:31:18,716 --> 00:31:19,836
Speaker 1: to feel good, and it just does it.

718
00:31:19,996 --> 00:31:22,036
Speaker 3: I have a great example for you people.

719
00:31:22,116 --> 00:31:24,036
Speaker 4: A lot of people say, I've trained myself to get

720
00:31:24,036 --> 00:31:25,316
Speaker 4: by on five hours of sleep.

721
00:31:25,476 --> 00:31:28,156
Speaker 2: Oh yes, but talk to my undergrads about that one.

722
00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:31,236
Speaker 1: We're on average, on average, all those horrible mental health

723
00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:33,676
Speaker 1: statistics I just mentioned to you about college students, I

724
00:31:33,716 --> 00:31:36,356
Speaker 1: actually think we could solve most of them if students

725
00:31:36,396 --> 00:31:38,396
Speaker 1: got more sleep and they weren't sleeping five hours.

726
00:31:38,636 --> 00:31:41,876
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true for adults too. Though it's true for

727
00:31:41,876 --> 00:31:42,396
Speaker 2: adults too.

728
00:31:42,436 --> 00:31:42,636
Speaker 3: Yeah.

729
00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:44,716
Speaker 4: No, people say that they've trained themselves to get by

730
00:31:44,716 --> 00:31:47,036
Speaker 4: on very little, on like four or five hours, and

731
00:31:47,076 --> 00:31:50,916
Speaker 4: then research shows that people are actually very very significantly

732
00:31:51,916 --> 00:31:55,716
Speaker 4: impacted and you don't adjust to it and you can't

733
00:31:55,716 --> 00:31:59,236
Speaker 4: get by without it, and so your mind is saying, oh,

734
00:31:59,276 --> 00:32:02,236
Speaker 4: everything's fine, all I need is my cup of coffee,

735
00:32:02,236 --> 00:32:03,596
Speaker 4: but you really are off your game.

736
00:32:03,636 --> 00:32:04,596
Speaker 3: And so that's a good example.

737
00:32:04,636 --> 00:32:06,556
Speaker 1: So this is where I do think the science and

738
00:32:06,596 --> 00:32:08,756
Speaker 1: some of these averages can help is that you sometimes

739
00:32:08,876 --> 00:32:11,356
Speaker 1: hear like, oh, the science isn't talking to somebody on

740
00:32:11,396 --> 00:32:13,316
Speaker 1: the streen feels good, or that five hours of sleep

741
00:32:13,356 --> 00:32:16,276
Speaker 1: isn't good for anyone, right, And then it can cause

742
00:32:16,316 --> 00:32:18,676
Speaker 1: you to just try and change your behavior a little bit.

743
00:32:18,676 --> 00:32:21,236
Speaker 1: You know, we mentioned Jessica Pan before, and you know,

744
00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:23,396
Speaker 1: she just like tried to change your behavior a little bit,

745
00:32:23,396 --> 00:32:25,356
Speaker 1: and what she discovered was really striking.

746
00:32:25,796 --> 00:32:27,716
Speaker 2: And I think that's that's the big.

747
00:32:27,556 --> 00:32:29,716
Speaker 1: Thing that I've learned most from the sort of enterprise

748
00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:32,996
Speaker 1: of studying happiness is that even my intuitions are wrong

749
00:32:33,076 --> 00:32:35,916
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, and recognizing that they're wrong,

750
00:32:35,956 --> 00:32:38,316
Speaker 1: can you just tweak things a little bit and you

751
00:32:38,356 --> 00:32:41,676
Speaker 1: can start to notice yourself do the experiment yourself to notice, actually,

752
00:32:41,716 --> 00:32:43,716
Speaker 1: that didn't feel as bad as I thought. Or that's

753
00:32:43,756 --> 00:32:46,036
Speaker 1: a great hack for when things are really tricky, right,

754
00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:49,676
Speaker 1: and that can be really really powerful. Recognizing that your

755
00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:51,836
Speaker 1: mind isn't telling you the right way to go can

756
00:32:52,236 --> 00:32:54,876
Speaker 1: help you come up with more creative solutions about what

757
00:32:54,996 --> 00:32:56,476
Speaker 1: might really be the right way to go well.

758
00:32:56,516 --> 00:32:57,756
Speaker 4: And that's what we try to do with on the

759
00:32:57,756 --> 00:33:01,276
Speaker 4: Happier podcast is like just suggest idea after idea after

760
00:33:01,356 --> 00:33:04,116
Speaker 4: idea for people, because some stick and some don't, Some

761
00:33:04,156 --> 00:33:06,916
Speaker 4: feel right and some don't aren't relevant, But it's like

762
00:33:06,996 --> 00:33:09,396
Speaker 4: sometimes just having these concrete ideas and knowing that they've

763
00:33:09,396 --> 00:33:12,756
Speaker 4: worked for somebody can help you get ideas for the

764
00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:14,956
Speaker 4: kinds of things that you would try for yourself and

765
00:33:14,996 --> 00:33:16,196
Speaker 4: that can make you happier.

766
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:18,876
Speaker 1: And so I hope you all are leaving with lots

767
00:33:18,876 --> 00:33:21,076
Speaker 1: of ideas for things that you can do to promote

768
00:33:21,076 --> 00:33:23,516
Speaker 1: your happiness, both with your five senses and beyond.

769
00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:27,836
Speaker 2: Can we give it up for Gretchen Reuven war House.

770
00:33:31,716 --> 00:33:33,836
Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be on a brief summer break,

771
00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:35,836
Speaker 1: but we'll be back in July with a whole new

772
00:33:35,876 --> 00:33:39,236
Speaker 1: series on listener stories, sharing how they put the science

773
00:33:39,276 --> 00:33:40,836
Speaker 1: of happiness into practice.

774
00:33:41,156 --> 00:33:42,756
Speaker 2: I hope you'll be back to join us then,