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Speaker 1: Well, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is all All where.

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Speaker 2: We give you the greatest stories in mostly in basketball,

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Speaker 2: but all in sports. The stories make the stories.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love that.

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Speaker 2: I think that's our new Well, that's Michael's who who

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Speaker 2: edits this?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: I think that's our new kind of catchphrase. The stories

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Speaker 2: are the stories.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Let that kind of ruminate them out into your brain

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Speaker 2: while we figured out and listen to Griff Aldridge. So

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Speaker 2: we're on championship week or in championship week, Yeah, in

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Speaker 2: championship week would be the proper English. And most of

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Speaker 2: the basketball community is arguing a couple of things, right,

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Speaker 2: who's in who's out? Oh, that's always fun. Who's in,

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Speaker 2: who's out? And I have a quick thought on that

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Speaker 2: that I'll share with you at the end. And of

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Speaker 2: course who's getting fired and who's going where? And it's

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Speaker 2: interesting when you when you get to your thirties to

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Speaker 2: forties and you've been in this business a long time,

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Speaker 2: and some of it is the connectivity of the sport,

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Speaker 2: some of it is the connectivity of the profession. Some

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Speaker 2: of it is what we're doing here on All Ball

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Speaker 2: where you really get to know, people get to know people,

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Speaker 2: and I've done a bad job of keeping up with

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Speaker 2: Mike Hopkins in terms of being boys. He was one

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Speaker 2: of the guys I looked up to when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid. He played my dad in Slamming Jam, which

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Speaker 2: was the big spring in Summer League, and then in

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Speaker 2: au of course played from modern day high school for

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Speaker 2: going to Syracuse.

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Speaker 1: Becoming an assistant coach.

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Speaker 2: The the head coach designate as well, and then most

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Speaker 2: recently head coach at Washington. But he lost his job yesterday.

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Speaker 2: And it's really always interesting, you know, when you he

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Speaker 2: had kind of an emotional speech in front of the

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Speaker 2: media where he talked about the people at Washington, how

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Speaker 2: much he really was going to miss those people, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's look, the Kenny Payne thing is, it's

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Speaker 2: just a clown show.

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Speaker 1: I mean you if you listen to his.

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Speaker 2: When he was asked why he should come back, he

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Speaker 2: had some bizarre answer about the Titanic and I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: i'ma be tracking who's jumping off the Titanic, Like, dude,

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Speaker 2: do you not know the fucking Titanic's at the bottom

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Speaker 2: of the ocean.

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Speaker 1: It's not the reference that you wanted. To make.

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Speaker 2: But yes, that was the Titanic. That was a sinking

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Speaker 2: ship that he went down with it. It's actually probably

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Speaker 2: a really accurate portrayal of Louisville hoops.

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Speaker 1: But it's not.

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Speaker 2: In any way the remarks of somebody who should stay

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Speaker 2: as Louisville head coach. And look, I'm not sitting here

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Speaker 2: going to tell you that Mike Hopkins did some spectacular

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Speaker 2: job at Washington.

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Speaker 1: Washington's a great job. It's tricky.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, switching the Big ten is gonna be interesting. There's

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Speaker 2: a new athletic director from the one that hired him. Like,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot to it. But none of this has

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Speaker 2: anything to do with keeping your job or losing your job.

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Speaker 2: It has to do with, you know the fact that

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Speaker 2: when you do get fired, that's it, right, Like you're

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Speaker 2: a former coach there occasionally can go back whatever. But

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Speaker 2: your family's moving, All the families are moving, everybody's losing

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Speaker 2: their job.

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Speaker 1: It's not a happy time.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I would say there are times in

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Speaker 2: which I've had this in my life where you don't

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Speaker 2: have the empathy for somebody losing their job and the

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Speaker 2: understanding of all the different things that go with it.

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Speaker 1: But maybe some of that is in relation to how

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Speaker 1: they handle their eggs.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, I was watching Mike Hopkins yesterday and the guy

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Speaker 2: I've known for holy crap, I'm old almost forty years

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Speaker 2: and thinking, thinking like this is the worst part of

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Speaker 2: what we do, which is when you're the head coach

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Speaker 2: of a university university's basket program, you are a paid ambassador.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to know everything about that school and love

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Speaker 2: and preach everything about that school and all the great

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Speaker 2: things about it. And the crazy part about it is

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Speaker 2: when it's over. Granted, he made a lot of money,

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Speaker 2: and you know, if you're smart with your money, sell

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Speaker 2: your house. You know you kept a bunch of your money,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna be good. Like you know, these assistant coaches

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Speaker 2: a little bit different, but head coaches you should be good.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, like all that ambassadorship, it could

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Speaker 2: be completely fake and it could go out the window

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Speaker 2: and you could turn into just, you know, the anti ambassador.

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Speaker 1: But the best of the best of people do not.

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Speaker 1: And Hop is a guy who's one of those really

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Speaker 1: good people. Be interested.

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Speaker 2: See Dan Monson was in his job after seventeen years

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Speaker 2: at Lombie State. Does hop have a soft landing back

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Speaker 2: at Lombey State, which would be really weird coming full

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Speaker 2: circle considering actually he played for my dad and my

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Speaker 2: dad was an assistant Lombie State until eighty four when

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Speaker 2: they lost their jobs. But I guess this is it's

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Speaker 2: not a plea, it's just a statement of respect. You know,

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Speaker 2: when these head coaches get fired, many of them get

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Speaker 2: a golden parachute to walk away. Some do not, I

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Speaker 2: guarantee the assistant coaches most do not. And the stories

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Speaker 2: make the stories. So when you hear the stories that

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Speaker 2: we share on All Ball, understand these are the people

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Speaker 2: behind the coaches on the sidelines and the X and

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Speaker 2: o's that we discuss that they're real people. And my

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Speaker 2: guest today is a perfect example. His name is Griff Aldridge.

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Speaker 2: He's the head coach of Longwood University. Longwood was at

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Speaker 2: five seed and now they're in the NCAA Tournament. I

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Speaker 2: was incredibly impressed with how they played against unc Asheville

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Speaker 2: after upsetting High Point beaten high Point. It was the

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Speaker 2: best team in their league for a second time in

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Speaker 2: like two weeks. And the beating high Point out high

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Speaker 2: Point where the where the tournament was played.

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Speaker 1: The Big South tournament was played.

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Speaker 2: But if you remember Griff Aldridge's story the first time

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Speaker 2: they went to the NCAA tournament two years ago, you'd

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Speaker 2: know that there's a lot more to them than just

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Speaker 2: a basketball coach. I feel like I could tease it,

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Speaker 2: but why it's that good.

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Speaker 1: Here's a guy.

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Speaker 2: I'll just give you the really that the top headline

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Speaker 2: walked away from a six figure job as a lawyer

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Speaker 2: in Houston to be the director of basketball operations at

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Speaker 2: umb You see Marilyn Baltimore County from there.

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Speaker 1: Of course they had the incredible upset of Virginia.

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Speaker 2: Of course we're going to talk about that, and now

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Speaker 2: he's taking Longwood to their second NCAA tournament.

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Speaker 1: But the stories make the story. Here's my chat with

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Speaker 1: Griff Aldrich.

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Speaker 2: Griff, I got a chance to obviously call your guy

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Speaker 2: game on Sunday, and it's really an interesting group. You

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Speaker 2: guys started out so well and then you hit a

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Speaker 2: patch in the middle.

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 3: You know? I honestly think I think it was a

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Speaker 3: combination of factors. I think number one, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't realize we lost a bunch of guys who

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Speaker 3: played critical roles last year. You know, probably like everybody

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Speaker 3: you know, brought in new new guys. A bunch of

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Speaker 3: the new guys that we brought in, you know, I

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Speaker 3: think oftentimes, especially at our level, you know, people when

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Speaker 3: they're thinking about transfers, they're oftentimes thinking about Power five guys,

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Speaker 3: guys who've already played well, and then they're just slotting

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Speaker 3: into a new system, you know, when you come down

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Speaker 3: to our level. Yeah, sometimes guys just immediately blossome. But

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Speaker 3: then I do think they're guys who haven't played. You know.

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Speaker 3: We we had several guys who hadn't played for years,

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Speaker 3: and now all of a sudden, they're not on the

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Speaker 3: scout team. What they do in practice actually matters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I want to get to the roster construction. Second,

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Speaker 2: but first, over, your left shoulder is arguably my favorite

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Speaker 2: poster I ever got as a kid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so again, you grew up in Virginia, correct?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Was that?

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Speaker 1: Did you get in a Virginia basketball camp? Like? Where

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Speaker 1: did you get because.

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Speaker 3: I got it at the Virginia Wesleyan the Don forsythe

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Speaker 3: basketball camp. Uh and uh, I think it's a converse. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a converse converse.

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Speaker 2: So that that poster. I know it is, don't we

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Speaker 2: look at I know what the words it says. It

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Speaker 2: makes me stick when I see a guy just watch

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Speaker 2: it go out a pound.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And there was some cool Converse posters, right, you had

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Speaker 2: the Iceman Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you had the Doctor is Always in Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see here they and used to get those

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Speaker 2: at the end of camp.

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Speaker 1: You get like a Converse poster at the inn of camp.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And I have that one.

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Speaker 2: That one's still hanging in my my childhood bedroom as well.

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Speaker 2: That one the Jordan Wings Yeah, and then the Jordan

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Speaker 2: Best on Earth, Best on Mars. And I had a

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Speaker 2: John Stockton poster.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this one might for some reason, my mother actually

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Speaker 3: mad it. So it's got like a matt behind it

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Speaker 3: and you can't see, but it's it's it's beat the

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Speaker 3: living hell. Uh. And I had it. I just took

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Speaker 3: it to college with may. I took it to law school.

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Speaker 3: It's just kind of gone with me and my wife,

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Speaker 3: you know, was like, can we please throw this away?

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Speaker 3: I was like no, So it's.

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Speaker 1: That no, no, no.

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Speaker 3: No, sat in the garage. And then finally when I

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Speaker 3: got to be a basketball coach and actually had an

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Speaker 3: office as a basketball coach, I was like, yeah, put

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Speaker 3: this bad boy up. But in some way, in some

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Speaker 3: ways that it really epitomizes how, you know, we want

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Speaker 3: to play. I mean, you know, I think it's it's

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Speaker 3: probably a little bit of my personality. But also really

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Speaker 3: and again I think that's more coincidence than you know,

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Speaker 3: if I had the doctor, if I had the Iceman,

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Speaker 3: if I had the George Gervin poster, it'd be up to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're so cool back in the day, I can

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Speaker 2: Will we ever have good basketball camps again?

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Speaker 3: No? Now AAU has ruined it. AAU has ruined it,

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Speaker 3: and trainers and and all of that. It's it's it's

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Speaker 3: really interesting. I mean you'll you'll like we used to

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Speaker 3: go to defensive stations and you are actually taught the

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Speaker 3: Sheldrome like I would go to basketball camp. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: you did two, three, four, five weeks a summer and

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Speaker 3: you knew sheldne you knew you know, seeball in man,

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Speaker 3: you know, and uh, you know we have to teach that,

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Speaker 3: you know at Longwood when when new guys get.

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Speaker 2: Here, obviously now there's three hundred and sixty plus Division

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Speaker 2: one teams. When you and I were playing. You know,

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know how many. There were probably

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Speaker 2: two hundred, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so is it when you and you were at

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Speaker 2: Hampton City, which is widely considered one of the elite

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Speaker 2: Division three programs. Yeah, it was at the right so

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Speaker 2: right at that but I know and at this time,

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Speaker 2: it's different that at that time was that level Longwood level.

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Speaker 2: It's hard because then as opposed to now, But is

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Speaker 2: that fair? That's really like you said you played divisions,

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, like as actually just as good as

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Speaker 2: any of the mid to low level the ones.

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Speaker 3: I think. So, I mean, I think, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you set aside players today with their athleticism and their

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Speaker 3: size compared to what we experienced, you know, the game's

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Speaker 3: just so different. But I think, you know, on a

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Speaker 3: relative basis, yes, like we you know, William and Mary

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Speaker 3: was in the Colonial Conference. I guess they still are,

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Speaker 3: but you know that was back when George Mason and

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Speaker 3: Vcu and Richmond all were in there, and and Hampton Sydney.

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Speaker 3: We played William and Marion at William and Marion beat him,

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Speaker 3: and so you know that was Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think we were a Division one level, you know program,

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Speaker 3: you know, certainly low. You know, we've we've finished in

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Speaker 3: the Elite eight. I think one year lost to Platteville

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Speaker 3: when Bo Ryan was there and had his dynasty going,

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Speaker 3: and you know that it was I actually somebody sent

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Speaker 3: me a video this is a couple of years ago

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Speaker 3: of some of our old footage, and I was like, damn,

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Speaker 3: we were good. Like the balls pop in, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's you know, we ran the old Carolina pass and

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Speaker 3: screen away and slip and curl and you know, and

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Speaker 3: it's just so so hard hard to play against, and

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Speaker 3: a bunch of really smart players and uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: not a lot of guys who were dunking, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of guys who could shoot and pass and dribble.

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Speaker 3: And so it was it was fun.

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Speaker 1: Will the motion offense have returned?

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Speaker 3: You know? I I honestly it's funny. Our staff every

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Speaker 3: year it feels like there is like I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you see this, but I feel like there's like

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Speaker 3: a system of the year. Like a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 3: it was that old you know, we call it buffalo

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Speaker 3: the you know the two posts, you know, continuity offense.

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Speaker 3: The opposite post lifts and goes into an empty side

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Speaker 3: ball screen and then you reverse it and all of

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Speaker 3: that felt like everybody was doing that, And then felt

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Speaker 3: like last year, at least in the in the teams

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Speaker 3: we were playing, it was floppy, you know, the pin

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Speaker 3: downs and playing off that. This year it feels like

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of stagger screens. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: were playing out of stagger screens. Again, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: just in at our level, but I think the in it.

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Speaker 3: Several years ago, I thought it was the ball screen.

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Speaker 3: Everybody was everybody, and now now I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: it is a little bit more people are going and

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Speaker 3: screening away and that's creating problems for people.

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Speaker 2: Well, what I saw from you Sunday, and again this

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Speaker 2: is usually not my not my pattern of how I

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Speaker 2: love to do this, so forgive me for jumping around

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Speaker 2: a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But what I what I saw Sunday was.

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Speaker 2: Asheville either switched everything or what like the hard hardhead

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Speaker 2: tave and trap everything. And I thought your team's overall

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Speaker 2: prep for it was fantastic. You know the big well,

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Speaker 2: I mean the big kid, the big Polish kid as Apolla,

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Speaker 2: who that's the per example what you're talking about where

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Speaker 2: like he was at Utah staight, yes, but he never played.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think people unders say, you don't just

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Speaker 2: automatically become this awesome you know, high high mid major level,

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Speaker 2: low high major level players in there watching other dudes.

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Speaker 2: It's just a completely different your body and by the way,

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Speaker 2: your your body's not used to it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the bigger thing is also your mental

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Speaker 3: because you've been beaten up confidence wise for a couple

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Speaker 3: of years.

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Speaker 2: And well, and then and then you come down and

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Speaker 2: also down there's some guys beating up. But some guys

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Speaker 2: they have that indelible self confidence, right, yes, but they

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Speaker 2: think that because it's a lower level, that they're just

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Speaker 2: going to roll it out and dominate.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it doesn't doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 3: I think that's right. We had, uh, we had a kid,

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Speaker 3: Justin Hill a couple of years ago who turned out

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Speaker 3: he's now at Georgia. He was the first team and

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Speaker 3: you know, he and I were laughing because he said,

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Speaker 3: you know, when I got here, I thought, man, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna be you mister everything, and then dude, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: then he said we were playing pick up the first

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Speaker 3: week and he said, well, I wonder watch seat on

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Speaker 3: the bench. I'm going to be because.

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Speaker 4: Playing Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup

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Speaker 4: in the nation. Catch all of our shows boxsports radio

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Speaker 4: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to

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Speaker 4: listen live.

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Speaker 1: It's they're root awake. It's really interesting that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, any basketball players mind is interesting, but especially

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Speaker 2: like the eighteen to twenty three year old guy, and

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Speaker 2: you know, you think, okay, well, he's played college basketball

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Speaker 2: for so he knows stuff, and there's just so much

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Speaker 2: they don't know, and they don't know how to process

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: Like that's a good big element to it too.

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Speaker 3: Well. And I think I also think in a program

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Speaker 3: like ours, we're very high accountability. We're very we try

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Speaker 3: to be detail oriented. We try to be execution and

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Speaker 3: discipline focused, and so we're not free flowing in that

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Speaker 3: way where hey, we're just gonna you know, we're gonna

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Speaker 3: run an NBA action and then you guys, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: put guys in a position you guys just go go

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Speaker 3: do you We don't do that, and so then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, it's I think it's that much harder.

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Speaker 3: You're trying to teach spacing, you're trying to teach. Okay,

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Speaker 3: hey I need to cut here now, I need to

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Speaker 3: you know, dive on this situation, and that just takes time.

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Speaker 3: That takes time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So getting back to the champion game, Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: guys were the Paula was constantly come up the ball

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Speaker 2: screens with slipping them, right, but you didn't have you

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Speaker 2: didn't have a short roll, and you have long rolling

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Speaker 2: and then everybody else kind of flashing behind. And the

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Speaker 2: first in the first half, you know, they were really

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Speaker 2: plugging hard on the weak side, so you were skipping

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Speaker 2: to the weak side corner. And then the second half

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Speaker 2: they were staying home. So you just constantly had hit

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Speaker 2: the slip. Man he was he had to be exhausted

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Speaker 2: getting the ball that much.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, but he was scoring all the time, so

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Speaker 3: he was happy.

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Speaker 1: All the time. So but what's interesting is, you know

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Speaker 1: it's like we.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's because of time to teach, because because

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Speaker 2: emotion is emotion when run, well, we can't really scout

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Speaker 2: for it, right, Yeah, And with so many defensive switching

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Speaker 2: all the time, a really good motion, it's even harder

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Speaker 2: when you're switching because well, now you can backcut or

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Speaker 2: curl cut every time, and it makes it really difficult

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Speaker 2: to play, especially any sort of pressure man in the defense.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm like, is it because the kids can't

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Speaker 2: run it and they can't read, because you don't have

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Speaker 2: the time when you have a new team to teach it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not asking you personally, I'm just saying, why

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Speaker 2: do you think in general? Because usually we teach offense

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Speaker 2: as we coach the way we were coached. Now, in

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Speaker 2: all fairness, I didn't really run emotion offense maybe ever,

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Speaker 2: like my dad would run like passing game again, like

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Speaker 2: passing cut kind of Doug mo style, you know, but

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Speaker 2: I never I knew all the principles of it. And

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Speaker 2: when I played at Notre Dame John mcclod, we ran

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Speaker 2: what I would call it two side motion you might

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Speaker 2: call block remover, but the guys weren't going through a

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Speaker 2: screener shooter on each side that I was passing either

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Speaker 2: go through but usually like fake and just I was

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Speaker 2: just facilitate up top.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering, why, uh no one runs it?

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Speaker 3: I think I think for a few reasons. I think

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Speaker 3: the AAU game is is not that way anymore, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, the AAU game is is all just freelance.

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Speaker 3: So I think, what what we were talking about before,

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Speaker 3: kids don't know the game, and so the amount of

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Speaker 3: time that it takes to try to teach them, I

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Speaker 3: think it's really hard. Like I remember we that's what

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Speaker 3: we ran. We ran Carolina's passing game at Hampton Sydney

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Speaker 3: because Shaver played for Dean Smith. And I remember we

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Speaker 3: actually ran five on oh without a ball. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: and I remember my freshman year, I was like, what

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Speaker 3: in the world, he what, what are we doing? And

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Speaker 3: I had no idea what I was doing. You know,

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Speaker 3: Ryan Odam was my best friend and teammate. He didn't

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Speaker 3: know what he was doing. You know, we're running into

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Speaker 3: each other and you know, it just took But then

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Speaker 3: of course over time, you know, I think exactly what

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Speaker 3: you've said is it's almost impossible because you know, some

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Speaker 3: of these other offenses, even like the Princeton offense, well,

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Speaker 3: there's a there's more or less a subset of variations

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Speaker 3: that you're going to run in a particular action, you know,

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Speaker 3: where I think in motion, who the hell knows what

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Speaker 3: you're gonna do, you know, And that makes that especially

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Speaker 3: if you have a balanced team. It makes it that

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Speaker 3: much more difficult, you know, to play against. In my opinion,

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Speaker 3: I would I.

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Speaker 2: Would say, again, this is an opinion. You tell me yours,

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Speaker 2: so you're actually doing it. I would say most coaches

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Speaker 2: would tell you that it's the players. Yeah, but the

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Speaker 2: truth is there's a good portion of it where and

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Speaker 2: I actually agree with this, where coaches want to control

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Speaker 2: where the ball's going.

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Speaker 1: You know, they want to control who's taking shats.

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Speaker 2: And the one thing about emotion is, you know, it

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Speaker 2: feels that you can't because the defense determines what you do.

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Speaker 1: Right, you have to read the defense.

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Speaker 2: Now again, my biggest issue is players can't read a defense.

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Speaker 2: I remember I was talking with a player who I

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Speaker 2: kind of work with during a season and I said, like,

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Speaker 2: who is guarding.

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Speaker 1: You on that play? Like I don't know? Like what

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Speaker 1: do you mean? I don't know? I was like, well, okay,

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00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: how was he guarding you? He's pressuring me? He's like, no, dude,

409
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: you know, no, he was off here. You had a

410
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: five on you. He was playing in the lane. Know

411
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: he's been room.

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Speaker 2: That's That's a jump shot to the point is that

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Speaker 2: they don't. It takes a while to get to the

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Speaker 2: place to where they one know who's guarding them and

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Speaker 2: how to adjusts, then to feel the game, and then

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Speaker 2: three uh, you know the big one is the secondary defender.

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Speaker 1: How is everybody else guarding you?

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Speaker 2: But then I also think that there's an element of Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I coaches like, he'll be open every time in emotion,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want him open because they'll shoot the ball,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want him shooting the ball right right,

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Speaker 2: there's the control asting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's I think that's true. I would

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Speaker 3: actually say our offense, which you know, we're going to

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Speaker 3: run a set and then we get into what we

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Speaker 3: call flow and you know, we're basically trying to either

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Speaker 3: throw it into the post, drive a gap, or get

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Speaker 3: a ball screen and.

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Speaker 2: Right, so your your flow game is five out or

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Speaker 2: occasionally four out one in.

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Speaker 3: Right, mostly four out one end, occasionally five out.

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Speaker 5: If if the like, I would tell you, well, I

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Speaker 5: would tell you in the prior five years it was

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Speaker 5: all four round one because I didn't really trust my

435
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Speaker 5: fives to catch the ball and they go do something positive,

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Speaker 5: They would do something just it may not be positive.

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Speaker 1: We're all going to watch this pod by the way.

438
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, but you know zapala Is, you know European.

439
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 2: Well see, but so the soho again comes wrong when

440
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: he catches up top, he dribbles at a wing.

441
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: It's a read, right, they can backcut and the next

442
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: guy can fill ya.

443
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: So that's kind of what I run in AAU, which

444
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: is I run a five out blow.

445
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

446
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: We're constantly teaching back cuts.

447
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

448
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: And the idea, the idea behind it is like, hey,

449
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: if you can't shoot, doesn't matter. If you backcut, they

450
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: have to guard you, yes, they have they they have

451
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: to honor you on a back cut.

452
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: Yes, and uh.

453
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: And it creates kind of constant movement in motion and

454
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: then you can make make some calls. That's it was

455
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: one of the first times like, oh that say the

456
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: blow I run.

457
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

458
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: The issue I have with the guy in the post,

459
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: and I thought.

460
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: You did a good job of it, is I hate

461
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: post catches that for for post ups, for scores, you know,

462
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: just an inefficient shot. And then also it's harder to

463
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: offensive rebound when you have a guy in between you

464
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: and rebound and the ball. And for the most part

465
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: you didn't do. What do you teach when the ball

466
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: hits the post?

467
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 3: What do you teach, Well, we do. We call it

468
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: a Utah action because we uh you know, watch some

469
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: of Quinn Snyder's Utah jazz uh split actions, and so

470
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 3: we're super super original. So we call it utah.

471
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 2: But what everybody does, but that's basketball one on one, right,

472
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: whatever you whoever you steal it from, you give them credit.

473
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so we try to get good movement. And again,

474
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: you know we're talking about you know, guys not understanding

475
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 3: fundamentals from not going to basketball camp. I think there

476
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: is something when the ball goes into the post and

477
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 3: it's a good post player. Yeah, everybody freaks out and

478
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: and there is something, in my opinion, like everybody's eyes

479
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: just go like people don't see ball in man.

480
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's why it's a great passing condition.

481
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: Yes, and so so we try to get good movement.

482
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: And then a lot of times, particularly Zapala has been

483
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: doubled and in the post semifinals and finals, he didn't

484
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: really get doubled. But we didn't really to your point,

485
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: we didn't really throw it into the post a whole lot.

486
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 3: It was a lot of a lot more ball screen

487
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: because we never really got got into that. And so

488
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: we what we may do is we may come off

489
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: a ball screen and throw it back action and then

490
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: throw it right in. We'll do that sometimes, so there's

491
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 3: some movement and they're not able to just tee off

492
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: on your on set.

493
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: Well, what I liked about it was one your prep

494
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: for So many coaches have all these great actions, but

495
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 2: then when you start switching, they like the guys just

496
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: stand and they don't know what to do, and then

497
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: it just becomes, hey, let's find the mismatch and attack.

498
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: And the problem with that mismatch and attack. It works

499
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: great in the NBA when you have Lebron James and

500
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant, Right, that's a mismatch. When you have a

501
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: college kid and a coach, it's just not that big

502
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: a mismatch, and it ends up usually being a mid

503
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: range pull up contest a jump shot, which is the

504
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: exact shot you don't want them taking, you know. Whereas

505
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: what you guys were doing was you were moving it

506
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: and swinging it and I mean literally.

507
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: Living in the paint.

508
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not on post touches, on cuts and on drives,

509
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: on and on movement, which is kind of the ideal thing, right, yes.

510
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the other thing when they're switching,

511
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: unless you're a team that is really prepared to switch

512
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 3: a ton and like that's just what you do. But

513
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 3: if it's just like your alternative defense or alternate you know,

514
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: switch it up again, I think defenses start to freak

515
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: out a little bit and they're like, oh my gosh,

516
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: there's a mismatch. Everybody load real quickly because our point

517
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 3: guard is on the five man and next thing, you know,

518
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: we skipped the ball and now we got a long

519
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 3: close out. We're in the paint. And I thought that

520
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: happened a good bit too, you know, moving the ball

521
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: and finding that finding where somebody was overhelping.

522
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: Well also, and again some of it is, you know,

523
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: not a great three point shooting team, but it's there's

524
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: a there's a discipline discipline to it where when you

525
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: guys were skipping, especially to the weak side corner, you

526
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: guys were attacking those closeouts instead of shooting. And it

527
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: would have no one would have questioned, you know, obviously

528
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: each individual player percentage wise, who you are taking. But

529
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: those weren't bad shots, but you were turning down good

530
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: shots for great shots.

531
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and it was kind of rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.

532
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: Well, and I think the other thing that we did

533
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 3: really well was we did shot fake, and which was

534
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: an emphasis for us. Shot fake, get him in the air,

535
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: and then we shot fake them at the rim. The

536
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: number of times we played off too, yes and got

537
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: to the free throw line. And I'll tell you, Doug,

538
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: we hadn't done that all year. Like that's all I've

539
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 3: screamed about. So I don't know what happened. We do.

540
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: We credit Villanova for the playing off two of America?

541
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: Is that?

542
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: Is?

543
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: That? Is that? Who?

544
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: Because it has become a trend, Like I never never

545
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: worked on that. Like we used to work at jump

546
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: stops when I was a kid and we were I

547
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: worked on my dad. I have a you know the

548
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: old two man passing drill, you know, just stake seeing

549
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: each other going down the court.

550
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still do that every practice. My dad did that,

551
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: But we do, we do. We always deal with a joke.

552
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: He always did it with a jump stop, like his

553
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: thing was do with jump stop.

554
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: So I would say ours is twofold number one. I

555
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: was a you know, I was an sixteenth of a player.

556
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: You were. I was smart and I had a quick

557
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: first step, but everything else was slow. And so the

558
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: way that I could score is I'd get by you

559
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: and then I just outthink you around the rim, get

560
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: you up in the air and get fouled. And that

561
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 3: was back in the days they called fouls if you touched,

562
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: if you got out of defensive position, and so I

563
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: just throw my body around and yeah, and so that

564
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: that's just kind of I've always been like, why would

565
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: you try to take a shot that has a fifty

566
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: percent chance of going in versus playing off to get

567
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: the guy in the air and go make two free throws,

568
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: you know, And so that was just always that's always

569
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: been my mentality of And then I think the other

570
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: thing Lenny Acuff who's now at Lipscomb, I really stole

571
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: it from him. He has something called finishing school, and

572
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if he got it from Villanov. I

573
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: don't know where I got it, but he you know,

574
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: we do it a ton, which is just stride stopping.

575
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: And the other thing that we do is, you know,

576
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: stride stopping to pass, but also stride stopping to finish. Yeah,

577
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: And and then so I think that's been you know,

578
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: that's been really I think the big things and then

579
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: the last thing that we really show our guys is

580
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 3: when they we call them hope layups. When they shoot

581
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: it and hope it goes in it invariably, it invariably

582
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: turns into a layup or an open three on the

583
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: other end, And so I think that combination, but yeah,

584
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: it probably is Villanova, I guess is probably where it

585
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: got widespread.

586
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: Jase practices were art.

587
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: They were I just I don't know how he got

588
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: them to that level of buy in, Like what the

589
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: you know what magic pixie dust he rubbed on him,

590
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: But like you'd go to their practice and they were

591
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: so incredibly focused, and you know they there's no waste

592
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: of words, no waste of time. Yeah, the first national

593
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: championship here, I went to this practice. They played seat

594
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: in hall next day and I went to the practice

595
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: and I said, Jay, do you tell them.

596
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: To not throw a chess pass? Because everything was a

597
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: bounce past the entire practice. He's like, it's.

598
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: Funny when when when they went to the final four

599
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: with the four guards, he said, it was the first

600
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: year they started really emphasizing bounce pasts, and the idea

601
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: was like, hey, look we're smaller than there by, let's

602
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: throw bounce passes, you know. And what happened was the

603
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: guys liked it so much and even these groups likes

604
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: it so much that they were they made it like

605
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: almost like it was a game. Can we get away

606
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: with throwing every pass that bounce pass in practice?

607
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: You know?

608
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: And then and then you watch them in games, and

609
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: like all the passes and games are bounced passes, and

610
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: you're like, it's so simple, that it's so simple and

611
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: yet effective, and oh yeah, by the way, it's a

612
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: it's like a it's just a simple fundamental of the game.

613
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: And then the other part is this, I've always got

614
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: this from Sean Miller watching this practice where he emphasizes catching.

615
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: You know, coaches emphasize passing, okay, but they don't actually

616
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: say catching, Like catching the ball is actually a big

617
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: fundamental to the game that we don't talk about, we

618
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: don't work on it. And I always thought Nova's guys

619
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: and Sean Mo's guys always actually catching the ball. I

620
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: do wonder if you fast forward twenty years from now, like,

621
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: are there going to be basketball dorks like us who

622
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 2: love all this shit even though they came up now?

623
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: Because when you come up now and again you tell

624
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: them if I'm wrong. You live it as a college coach.

625
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: They don't watch a lot of basketball. They watch clips,

626
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: watch YouTube, they watch clips and even I mean like, look,

627
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: they'll watch spenergy even you know, they watch clips, but

628
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: not games. They don't go to the same summer camps

629
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: we have, and they also don't communicate the same because

630
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: of the phones right where everything is a text. So

631
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: you know, you'll see older mature teams defensively talking and

632
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: communicator with young kid teams.

633
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 3: They don't say shit no.

634
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: But I wonder what.

635
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: I wonder what the world is like twenty years from

636
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: now when that generation is then coaching, what it looks like.

637
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: My guess is now, I think this is where the

638
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: global impact will. I think have a have a play

639
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 3: because like the Europeans, they don't do that. They are

640
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: playing team. They are teaching fundamental at a young age,

641
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: and so I think there's gonna I think the US

642
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: is going to have to figure something out where we

643
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: start teaching fundamentals again, because if we don't, I think

644
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 3: the European and the international side of things is going

645
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 3: to continue to you know, take a bigger and bigger

646
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 3: slice of the best players and the best teams.

647
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: I agree. I think it's interesting.

648
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: You know, one of my dear friends is Miles Simon

649
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: and obviously play in the ninety seven Nation Champions team.

650
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: He's MP, so he's an assistant coach with the Sons,

651
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 2: but he was an assistant coach.

652
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: I wanted the under under sixteen, under eighteen on one of.

653
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: The USA teams and I said, brother, catching up and

654
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: he they won their tournament and I want to buy

655
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 2: a good margin.

656
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, we win all these levels. Like yeah,

657
00:35:59,120 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: but again.

658
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: You're doing the AAU thing, like you're there were physically

659
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:09,479
Speaker 2: so dominant and superior, and we have twelve very good

660
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: players whereas they have two or three, right, and then

661
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: they have just some kind of guys that are kind

662
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: of filling out and figuring out whatever, Like you're mistaken.

663
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 2: I think physical development for actual skill development. And of course,

664
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: inevitably who gets blamed. AU coaches get blamed. Now you

665
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: were an AU coach in Houston. Yeah, and I don't

666
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: think I can be wrong. I don't think it's AAU

667
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: per se. I mean, honestly, it feels like it's the

668
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: parents to me, that the two things that ruin everything, right,

669
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: are parents and the money.

670
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: But here's what I would say, though, is when you

671
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: were going to basketball camps, they were coaches. They were

672
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: high school coaches who were and like a lot of

673
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: AAU coaches and and I'm guys, they're just guys. They're

674
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 3: just guys, and and the parents don't understand, Okay, is

675
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 3: this guy really know what he's doing? What is he teaching?

676
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: You know? And there weren't just guys when we were

677
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: growing up. And and I do think that, you know,

678
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 3: I think the US thing is not fair because if

679
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 3: you did US versus Europe, maybe it's more fair because

680
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: the US is larger than the entire.

681
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: Continent after do million people, and we're way we're heavily

682
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: invested in youth sports, heavily heavies.

683
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, where where I think if you're playing the US

684
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: versus Lithuania, like, okay, that'd be like the US playing

685
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: against Rhode Island.

686
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: You know, that's like a six A versus a two A,

687
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: you know whatever, your high school right, like yeah.

688
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: So, I you know, I I I don't know if

689
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: things don't change. I mean, Doug, I grew up watching

690
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: Jefferson Pilot raycom and I guarantee you. The vast over

691
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: half of the basketball that I learned was sitting there

692
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 3: watching ACC basketball. And they would continue to say, now

693
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: you young players who are watching at home, look at

694
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 3: how he does this right here, and and you just

695
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: you learned it. But I mean I loved it. And

696
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 3: so that was Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

697
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: And mine was mine was mine was Monday afternoon I

698
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: get home from school. I grew up in southern California,

699
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 2: Big East basketball will beyond at four o'clock. Yeah, and uh,

700
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: and I love Sherman Douglas and watching it, like people

701
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 2: would say, like, wow, you two great alioops. Like, dude,

702
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: I grew up watching Sherman Douglas. You know who was

703
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 2: better at throwing aliops? To Derek Coleman and Ronnie Stych.

704
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 2: Believe in Sherman Douglas.

705
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: Then I haven't heard Ronnie name in a long time.

706
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: Shoot, And I mean, uh, Stevie Thompson like that. That

707
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: team had all kinds of dunkers. Stevie Thompson as well. Yeah,

708
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: so I had athletes. And then I mean I go,

709
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: I go deep in my point guard knowledge. Jay Verson

710
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: is to me still everybody talks about like he was

711
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: the big ten Chris Corciani.

712
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the little white guy who dominated.

713
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: The league byron Ice Monroe.

714
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: How how good a nickname was that?

715
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah?

716
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 2: And then and I I think I told this to Ryan.

717
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: I don't know if I told I think I told him.

718
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: He did my pod.

719
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: I remember. So I had a thing for Virginia. Yeah,

720
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: and here here was the thing.

721
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: So I grew up and the old Bosey Old was

722
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: an alumni hall?

723
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: Was that called the old? And it was so tiny

724
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: and so kind of quaint whatever.

725
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 3: Or maybe it was a university hall. I don't know,

726
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 3: I can't remember.

727
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: It is interesting, right, like I don't like, uh, we

728
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: think of the places. And she stayed playing in Reynolds,

729
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: North Carolina, played in Carmichael, and they played in whatever's

730
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: alumni hall or whatever. I'm not sure I can, I can,

731
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. So so they had a series and

732
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: like look it's you know, they had a series of

733
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: white point guards, right they had I mean John Crotty

734
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 2: obviously was the king.

735
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 3: Yep.

736
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: So Jeff Jones offered me. He was like the first

737
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: big school to offer me a scholarship. And I was

738
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: a really good student and my my I was a

739
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: really good student from like the old school, like my

740
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 2: daddy's is just like get it done, you know, get

741
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: it done. No seas, get it done.

742
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: So I remember I.

744
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: Got like a letter in the mail from Jeff Jones

745
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: and it was like a personal, handwritten note and they

746
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: called me it's like my juvenior spring junior year. I know,

747
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: it was before my junior year. So like everything else

748
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 2: was like IMiD majors or whatever. And I just became

749
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 2: infatuated with everything in Virginia like I didn't.

750
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: It was like something I had seen but kind of

751
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: know a little bit about whatever.

752
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: And then Florida was the next one, and so those

753
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: two schools, so I started to like the architecture. And

754
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: there's the crazy part. I had never been to the

755
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: University of Virginia until four years right before COVID. Oh

756
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: really yeah yeah, And then when I got there, I

757
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: was like, this is way cooler than I ever thought.

758
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: Of course, now the arena has been replaced whatever, but

759
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: always I always thought it was a special place. It

760
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: is just it is, yeah, and it's like it's.

761
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: Like Notre Dame.

762
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: And when I went to Notre Dame, I remember every

763
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: once in a while going like, am I going to

764
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: school in a museum?

765
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: It feels like a museum? Here a part of history.

766
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: How did you get to become an AU coach? You've

767
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: got done playing? You go to law school? Like, did

768
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 2: somebody say, hey, come coach my team? Did you seek

769
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: it out? Did you start yourself? How'd that happened?

770
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: So?

771
00:41:53,960 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I moved down to Houston. So I My story

772
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: is I was supposed to go be a ga with

773
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: Dave Odom because of my relationship at Wake. And so

774
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 3: this is the This is ninety six, the spring of

775
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: ninety six, and they're they're rocking and rolling Duncan. It's

776
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: the Duncan years. And I'm spoiled and I'm playing at

777
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: Hampton Sydney and we're great at Division III, and I

778
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: now get to go to all the Wake games and

779
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: they're great. And anyway, he finds out during Sweet sixteen

780
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 3: weekend that I had applied to Virginia Law School and

781
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: it gotten in and he said, well, you can't come,

782
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: you can't come anymore. I said, what do you mean

783
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 3: it can't come? He said, you can't come. You got

784
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: to go differentiate yourself, like and you know he knew

785
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 3: he knew the value of a Virginia law degree, and

786
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: so he's like, grift is a you need to go

787
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: do that. So I went and did that, and then

788
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 3: I went back to Hampton, Sydney and coached for a

789
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 3: year with Tony Shaver. But after that year, I had

790
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: a bunch of loans and a bunch of fear. Uh

791
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 3: that would be a D three assistant for the rest

792
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 3: of my life. And so I went and uh worked

793
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 3: for the largest firm in Houston, firm called Vincent Elkins.

794
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: And but I but I loved hoops.

795
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 2: Uh and was it like the firm like did you guys,

796
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: do you guys have some deal out in the uh

797
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: out in the Cayman Islands where you were where you were.

798
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: Not to my knowledge, but uh, but uh it it

799
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 3: was uh. Well, you may remember remember the show l

800
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 3: A Law of course, Yeah, remember some of the crazy

801
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: scenes about the firm, like the party where somebody falls

802
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: through the ceiling. Yes, that was our firm. Okay, yeah, yeah,

803
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 3: but uh you know it's a big corporate firm and

804
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 3: it wonderful, wonderful uh place. I loved it. I was

805
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 3: there for twelve years. But but at the same time,

806
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 3: I missed basketball and so faith is a big thing

807
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 3: for me. And so I got involved with the Christian

808
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 3: ministry and in the inner city of Houston, and I

809
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: was going to coach with Houston Select, which was the

810
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 3: Adidas team. But there were all of I was involved

811
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: with this ministry, and there were all these kids who

812
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: that they you know, they were good, but they weren't

813
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 3: you know, Adidas travel team. And I was like, but

814
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: nobody's going to coach them. I'll coach them. And so

815
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: we had a B level team and but we'd play

816
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: in the Kingwood Classic and we traveled to New Orleans

817
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: and Arkansas and places like like that, you know, more regional.

818
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 3: But like DeAndre Jordan played for me. He started, uh

819
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: uh play played with us for three years before he

820
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 3: moved you know, he moved on. We had actually Oklahoma State.

821
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: You remember you put he put himself in the old

822
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: au transfer portal.

823
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well no, no, we we uh you want to

824
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 3: know the true story about uh DeAndre? So DeAndre DeAndre

825
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: was huge, but he wasn't a good basketball player.

826
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: No, No, I remember so that part. Remember I don't

827
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: know the other Well, no.

828
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: I'm saying as in not a good basketball player. As

829
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: in in eighth grade. He went to Colin Middle School

830
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: and he was a backup and he was six to

831
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: one as an eighth grader on our AAU team. He

832
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: was a backup. And then he went to Lamar High

833
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 3: School in Houston, which was a good public school, and

834
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: he was on the ninth grade team and it was

835
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 3: a backup. And he's now six three and he plays

836
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: with us again. And DeAndre had his mother is amazing woman.

837
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

838
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: DeAndre was a smart kid, or is a smart kid,

839
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: and and he was a he was a great kid

840
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: and fun to be around, kind of goofy, you know,

841
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: and DeAndre I kind of went to him. I said, hey, DeAndre, like,

842
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking he's six three six ' four as

843
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 3: a freshman. I'm like, man, if he could get to

844
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: six seven, maybe we get him to a D three

845
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: school somewhere and you know, like he'll be okay, Like

846
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: he could do that. And I said, and he was

847
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: a good student. And I said, you know, would you

848
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 3: ever be interested in going to a private school? And

849
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: he was like absolutely, And I said, all right, well

850
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: let's talk to your mom. But it's like July at

851
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 3: this point, and so Episcopal High School which is one

852
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: of the prominent high schools in Houston. My my in

853
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 3: law's business partner was the chairman of the board there,

854
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 3: and we said, hey, can we help this kid get

855
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: in and you know whatever. And at this point, the

856
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 3: kid's a backup at on the ninth grade. Nobody's thinking

857
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 3: he's going to be who he is, and so we

858
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: get him in. He's now and I go to him

859
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 3: right before school starts, I said, DeAndre, and he had

860
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 3: a September birthday, so he's super young, babyface, and now

861
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 3: he's probably you know, six four six ' five September,

862
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: and I said, DeAndre, you should really repeat ninth grade,

863
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 3: like you're the training that you've had, it's not going

864
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 3: to be up to snuff to your peer group like

865
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: you really ought to. And so he was totally against it,

866
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 3: totally against it. And my wife, who was a youth

867
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: minister at the time, would go over and tutor him

868
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: at lunchtime, and by the end of September, DeAndre decided,

869
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: you know what, I should probably just do ninth grade again.

870
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: Well by December he's a freshman and he's now six

871
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: seven and now it's like wait a second. But he

872
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: was with his right class, he was a September birthday

873
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: and I don't know why they started him the way

874
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 3: they did, but and to his credit, I mean, he

875
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 3: obviously got better and better. And what I really heard

876
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 3: was Blake Griffin was the difference maker for him. When

877
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 3: he and Blake played together with the Clippers, Blake would

878
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 3: just grab him and take him to the gym and

879
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 3: force him to work, you know. And you know, but

880
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 3: anyway that that doesn't really answer your your question about it.

881
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's honestly, it's it's awesome because you know,

882
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: it's it's the I could be wrong, and I'm not

883
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: trying to put words in your mouth, but I think

884
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: it's interesting. You know a lot of the narrative on

885
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: college basketball. A college basketball coach and you say you're

886
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: a college basketball coach, it's almost like saying you have

887
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 2: some nefarious uh position?

888
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: Right, yes, like what does he do for living? College

889
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: basketball coach?

890
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: You know, It's like, but I'm guessing, like why did

891
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 2: you get in coach to get into it to make millions?

892
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: You get it? Two reasons, right, love ball and you

893
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: love kids and helping kids.

894
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: Right, it's a completely and then you know it also

895
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: fulfills that kind of competitive need, you know, the need

896
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: for competition, right and and and it is self fulfilling

897
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: in that in that way, like it's a daily competitive environment.

898
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: Well yes, but have you ever read the book Inside

899
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: Out Coaching by Joe Airman? No, you ought to. You

900
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 3: ought to read it. It's for for me. So my

901
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 3: switch to college was really about faith. I felt like

902
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: God was calling me to invest more of my time

903
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 3: and I really thought it was more aau uh you know,

904
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 3: we actually lived in Third Ward of Houston, so we

905
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 3: lived so we could be closer to the players, and

906
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 3: we love you.

907
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: Let you wait, wait what hold on?

908
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 3: You live?

909
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: So get paid the picture of what how old are

910
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: you at the time?

911
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 3: Thirty five.

912
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: And you're married kids, no kids at the second.

913
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 3: We had just adopted. We have three African American kids

914
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 3: who are adopted kids.

915
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: Right, so you decide, I'm going to go.

916
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 2: I'm a lawyer in Houston and the successful one and

917
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: what was the third Ward?

918
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: Like, well, so it's the inner city. I mean it's yeah,

919
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 3: it's you know where Texas Southern is, It's it's right there.

920
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 3: And but the Christian ministry we worked with had gym

921
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 3: and so we lived, you know, a couple of blocks

922
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: from Yates High School, which is a well known prominent

923
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 3: high school, and that's where most of my players came from.

924
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 3: They came from Yates and Wheatley were the two main schools,

925
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: and and they would come, they would come home after

926
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: school and you know, come over to the house and

927
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 3: hang out and eat dinner, and then I'm home at

928
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 3: six point thirty and pick them up, take them to practice,

929
00:51:54,760 --> 00:52:00,240
Speaker 3: drop them off, and then get back to work. And

930
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,479
Speaker 3: and it was awesome. You know. The part I've left

931
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: out is six years into my practice, my wife and

932
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 3: I moved to London. So we worked in my London

933
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 3: in the firm's London office for four years. And so

934
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 3: when we moved back to when we moved back to

935
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 3: Houston with the firm, we really had to make a

936
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 3: decision about where we wanted to live. And my wife's

937
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: family's from Houston, lives in your wealthy area river Oaks,

938
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 3: and and we kind of said we want to we

939
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 3: want to do a different life. Not to make a statement, again,

940
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: I think we really felt like we were called to

941
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: that and and it was obviously it was life changing.

942
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: It was you know, it was phenomenal, and we really

943
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: thought we were going to live there forever. And our

944
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 3: kids were African American and we wanted them to be

945
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: in a more diverse environment where where we were the

946
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: outsiders and not them. And and then this called to

947
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: go coach basketball. I really, like I said, I thought

948
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: it was going to be, hey, coach more AAU, or

949
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: maybe go be an assistant at Yates or you know

950
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: something like that. It was really my wife. My wife

951
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: was like, well, don't you love college hoops? I was

952
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 3: like yeah, and I'm forty forty two at the time

953
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 3: or maybe forty one, and she goes, why don't you

954
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 3: go coach college? I was like, yeah, it doesn't really

955
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, nobody's looking for somebody who, you know,

956
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago was a D three assistant. And literally,

957
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: again I think providentially, Ryan got the UNBC job that March,

958
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 3: and his brother Lane was like, you know Ryan Griff, like,

959
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 3: he'll he'll help you run the program, like just you

960
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 3: can do basketball and he'll be your chief of staff.

961
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 3: And so that's kind of how it happened. And then

962
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 3: I had zero expectator. I thought I'd be with Ryan forever.

963
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I love Ryan and I talk every day now,

964
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:25,919
Speaker 3: and he and I are so different. We were such

965
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: a you know, a good pair. But you know, the

966
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 3: Longwood thing, you know, popped up so again providentially in

967
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 3: my view.

968
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: When you took over at Longwood, what was it like?

969
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 3: It was? It was different. It was you know, I

970
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 3: think the prior, the prior coach had he was he's

971
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 3: also a man of faith, Jason g and Jason really

972
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 3: had a heart for helping guys. And so there were

973
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 3: a lot of guys who had who had stubbed their

974
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 3: toe in life, and and so it you know, they

975
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 3: they came here and and some of them did great.

976
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: Some of them stubbed their toes again. And so in

977
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 3: a community like Farmville, that's just a smaller community. You know,

978
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 3: if you're in Houston at University of Houston and somebody

979
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 3: does something, you know, there's the Texans, there's the Rockets,

980
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: there's the Astros. You know, it kind of can get

981
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 3: swept under, you know, or people just don't focus small community.

982
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: When you're the flagship sport, you know, everybody knows. And

983
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 3: so it was really more of a culture rebuild. And

984
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 3: it was also a program that had had never won

985
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: I think the highest they'd ever finished before was eighth

986
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 3: place out of nine teams in the conference. The facilities

987
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: were really off, and I think there was just a

988
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 3: it needed an infusion of belief. It needed an infusion

989
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 3: of Hey, we're going to do things excellently and that

990
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 3: mediocrity is not okay. One of our program quotes is

991
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 3: from Aristotle. You know you are what you repeatedly do.

992
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: Excellence is not an event, it's a habit. And so

993
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 3: that's just something that we've been trying to push and

994
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 3: the program and and I'll be I'll be honest. The

995
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 3: administration always wanted this to be a basketball school, and

996
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 3: I think in some ways they weren't really sure how.

997
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying I had the answers, but we

998
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: just you know, kept kept punching until you know, things worked,

999
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 3: and they certainly didn't always work.

1000
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1001
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 2: So, uh, you get this year, you open a brand

1002
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: new arena, which is you know, that's a decade in

1003
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 2: the making. Yep, Rinas don't just like, hey, let's do it,

1004
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 2: let's let's go, and you have to put together a team. Okay,

1005
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: so give me this time last year, what what did

1006
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: when you look up on your whiteboard in your office,

1007
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: and who do we have, what do we need to get?

1008
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: How does a what? How did how did it all

1009
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: kind of come together?

1010
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: So so last year we lost two five men who

1011
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 3: had played for three years and they both literally played

1012
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: between eighteen and twenty two minutes a game, and so

1013
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 3: we had to completely replace the five position. And then

1014
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: we had one one four man back, we had one

1015
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 3: point guard and kind of a combo guard. And we

1016
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 3: lost two all conference players and you know, just again

1017
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: we lost a uh, like I said, seven guys graduated.

1018
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 3: And and so going back two years when we won

1019
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 3: the tournament, we had everybody come or we had everybody

1020
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: come back, but we lost to our two point guards.

1021
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: And so then last year we lost everybody except for

1022
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: you know, three four guys, and so we knew we

1023
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 3: had to deal with the five position, and so we

1024
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 3: had to do that. We knew we needed to get

1025
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: some wings scoring, and we needed to get more more

1026
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 3: help in the point guard position. And it's been really

1027
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 3: hard to find point guards, to be honest, it's been

1028
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 3: really hard. And I hear that over and over again

1029
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: from other coaches. And so you know, first, you know,

1030
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 3: at the five spot, you know Zepuala played for Ryan

1031
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 3: at Utah State.

1032
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 2: So okay, so so and I mentioned on the broadcast,

1033
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: So I mean again, and this is the real way

1034
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: the world works is it's about connections. So did you

1035
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: did he say? Like, and I remember this time last year,

1036
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: Ryan was leaving right to go to BCU. Yes, so

1037
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: did did he tee it up?

1038
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: Was it?

1039
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: Did he just pop up in the portal? And then

1040
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: it became a conversation like how did it work?

1041
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 3: So of course I, you know, I knew who Shei

1042
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 3: Man was, but you know, and I'd been out to

1043
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 3: Utah State, so we had probably fist bumped at some point.

1044
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 3: And Ryan sent me what I think they sent everybody,

1045
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: which was a link of his film, and honestly, I

1046
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 3: didn't even look at it. And then one day I'm

1047
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: sitting there and I go back and I look at it.

1048
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, man, this I think this guy actually

1049
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 3: is a lot more ethic because I was worried is

1050
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 3: a seven foot step and we don't play. That's not

1051
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 3: how we play. And like, if you're sprinting out for

1052
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,919
Speaker 3: ball screens and stuff like, you can't be bad. Yeah,

1053
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 3: we can't win it. And so then I looked at

1054
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: I was like, actually, this kid's pretty. He can move.

1055
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 3: And so then we talked and we called Sheeman and

1056
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 3: he literally had thirty schools recruiting it. And but he

1057
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: and I really had a we really connected and you know,

1058
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 3: he and I had a long conversation one day and

1059
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 3: he calls me the next day and he goes, Coach,

1060
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,919
Speaker 3: I've I've cut the list down to three schools and

1061
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 3: it's Duquane, Bowling Green and Oral Roberts and so I

1062
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 3: just want to thank you for your time and it's

1063
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 3: been great. And I said, she Mon, it's awesome. You know,

1064
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 3: I wish you all the best. Has been fun to

1065
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 3: know you. So that was a Saturday Sunday afternoon. He

1066
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 3: calls me back. He goes, Coach, I haven't felt good

1067
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 3: since we hung up the phone, and I think I'm

1068
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 3: supposed to take a look at you guys. And I said,

1069
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 3: well great, and so he came here and yes, the

1070
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 3: familiarity with Ryan. He's from a rural area in Poland.

1071
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 3: And as we're driving in, he goes, this feels like home.

1072
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 3: Like this feels like my home back in Poland. And

1073
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 3: he's a guy who, like Ducane, is a much higher

1074
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 3: level obviously, but he doesn't like the city and so

1075
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 3: he's like, I'm not going to Pittsburgh. And and I think,

1076
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: you know, in some ways it was down to us

1077
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 3: in Oral Roberts. I don't I haven't really.

1078
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: I can tell you firsthand the drive from Alsa Airport

1079
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 2: to Oral Roberts as farmland in between, right. Actually it's

1080
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 2: actually kind of famously sort of a bad drive whatever.

1081
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: I like, Tulsa is an awesome town to live in,

1082
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,439
Speaker 2: but just not that path, you know, see what think like, hey,

1083
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 2: if that airport would have been out in the sticks

1084
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: and he drove through the sticks to get to All Roberts, oh.

1085
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, game, may it be somewhere else? And so you know,

1086
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 3: I think Simon, you know, that's kind of how we

1087
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 3: how we got him. And Elijah Tucker was a Xavier

1088
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 3: transfer red shirted his freshman year, didn't really play it

1089
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 3: all last year, but we were kind of like, okay,

1090
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 3: he's big and athletic. And then we had signed a

1091
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 3: Juco five in the fall who was undersized, but how

1092
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 3: we play really fast, really athletic, can defend, and so

1093
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 3: we were like, okay, we've got three three fives that

1094
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 3: we'll figure that out, and then we needed scoring wings.

1095
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: You know, we needed scoring from the guard position and

1096
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,479
Speaker 3: our our you know, I honestly, if I could start

1097
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 3: two point guards, I would, you know, because in how

1098
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: we play, you know, just keep moving the ball and

1099
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 3: it makes it easier for the five man. They're not

1100
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 3: trying to hunt the best guy coming off of a

1101
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 3: ball screen. And you saw that. We got a bunch

1102
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,959
Speaker 3: of guys who will come off ball screens, some better

1103
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 3: than others. But anyway, kid named John John Massey, Uh,

1104
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 3: if you look at our roster, you'll see we've got

1105
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 3: three kids from Houston. The Justin Hill kid I mentioned

1106
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 3: who's now at Georgia, he was from Houston. Shabooty Phillips

1107
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,439
Speaker 3: was an All Conference player who I actually coached in AAU.

1108
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 3: He was from Houston. So we just we recruit Texas

1109
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 3: a lot. And so John John Massey, you know, he came.

1110
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 3: He had average ten points at McNeice, you know, kind

1111
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 3: of a six five six six, you know, kind of

1112
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 3: one two or three. And you know, we felt like

1113
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 3: he was going to be a dynamic score for us,

1114
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 3: and I think he's average close to double figures for

1115
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 3: us here. You know, he had thirty one against Ashville

1116
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 3: in you know it during the conference, and so he

1117
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 3: has has a lot of potential. And then we signed

1118
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 3: two really good high school kids in the fall. One

1119
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,919
Speaker 3: turned out to be the North Carolina Private school state

1120
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 3: player of the year. His team won the championship and

1121
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: he ended up being on the All Freshman team, Emmanuel

1122
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 3: Richards and and then another kid, Jalen Bernard, I think

1123
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 3: is kind of like griffaldrich was his freshman year at

1124
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 3: Hampton Sydney. You know, he's he's trying to fit, he's

1125
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 3: running into people a little bit, but he's really grown

1126
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 3: throughout the year. But Jalen was a I think a

1127
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 3: top thirty Texas high school recruit, which you know is

1128
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 3: that's really good, uh for for our level. So we

1129
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 3: did that. The point guard spot is probably where you know,

1130
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 3: we didn't We didn't find that that other compliment to

1131
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 3: the Naper kid, and I think I we we actually

1132
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 3: going back a year, we signed a kid, Nick a

1133
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 3: Lame from ut Arlington who was he and Whalen were

1134
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 3: supposed to be the two point guards. And Nick came

1135
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 3: in first week of class and said, Hey, I've been

1136
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 3: in the States for seven years. My dad just got

1137
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 3: me a pro contract in France where I'm from. I'm

1138
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 3: going home, and and that I think that's really hurt

1139
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 3: Whalen because he hasn't had Okay, no problem, dude, you

1140
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 3: don't want to do it the right way, Go sit down,

1141
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 3: we'll let we'll at neck plot, you know. And so

1142
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 3: there's he's been so much more talented than his backup

1143
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 3: that he hasn't felt he hasn't been had that that,

1144
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 3: you know, push Yeah, So you know that's you know,

1145
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 3: that's kind of how we that's kind of how we

1146
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 3: we did it. And then Da Houston, who you saw

1147
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 3: play some point. You know, Da is an unbelievable you know,

1148
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 3: he was with us, but just kind of a more

1149
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 3: of a combo guard than than kind of it certainly

1150
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 3: than a true point.

1151
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 2: How different are you now than in November.

1152
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 3: As a coach or as a teaming vastly different, vastly Uh.

1153
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 3: We have always been talented, you know. We we should

1154
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 3: have beaten Saint Bonaventure on opening night. I don't know

1155
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 3: if it's a two or three point game something like that,

1156
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 3: maybe four with free throws or something. We played Dayton close,

1157
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 3: you know, until about the four minute Mark in the

1158
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 3: second half. And we've been a talented team. I really

1159
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 3: believe you've got You've had maturity from the new guys

1160
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: like Emmanuel Richards is not a freshman anymore. You know,

1161
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 3: you always hear about that. Shiman Zappolla is playing with

1162
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 3: incredibly more confidence than he was. He's able to in

1163
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 3: the non conference. In early conference, if something bad happened,

1164
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 3: he didn't have the confidence to, hey, it's okay, I'm

1165
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 3: going to get the next play. It might it might

1166
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 3: spiral it. And now he's now he's much more confident.

1167
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 3: Elijah Tucker had twenty two against High Point. Well he

1168
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 3: was missing layups you know, in November and December, and

1169
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 3: so you just have a much more in my opinion,

1170
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 3: experienced and mature team. And then I really think our leadership,

1171
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 3: which has been our most important piece, has matured. They

1172
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 3: have always wanted to lead. I don't think they I

1173
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 3: didn't help them figure out how to. They know how,

1174
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 3: and they've been willing, and probably about three to four

1175
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 3: weeks ago they were like, screw this, like y'all follow

1176
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 3: you do what I say. And you know they're not

1177
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 3: dog cussing anybody or anything like that. They're actually super

1178
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 3: positive guys. But like now, there's no doubt, there's no

1179
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 3: question that Waal and Knapper. If he tells you to

1180
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 3: do something, you better do it. And if Da Houston

1181
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 3: pulls you together like pay attention and they have really

1182
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 3: I think.

1183
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: Blossomed is it. Was there anything you did to help that?

1184
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 3: You know what I think I did. I did. I

1185
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 3: didn't torpedo it. I didn't torpedo it again. I think,

1186
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 3: you know, Doug, this has been the hardest year of

1187
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 3: coaching in my career, you know. And I think during

1188
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 3: you know, that real dip at the beginning of conference,

1189
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 3: you know, I had to go to, frankly, my faith

1190
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 3: and family and and I think that helped me stay

1191
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 3: the course with them, helped me stay my My typical

1192
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 3: approach is like work harder, Like like what are you doing?

1193
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 3: Work harder? Execute? And I think for the first time,

1194
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 3: you know, I mentioned the Joe Aherman book and all

1195
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 3: of that. It's all he's talking about, is we as individuals.

1196
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 3: You know, you assume you come to coach like you're

1197
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 3: not a jacked up human. So the reality is you

1198
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 3: bring all of your childhood issues, all of your issues

1199
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 3: in your own life and then oftentimes you project them

1200
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 3: on the team. And you know, the whole point of

1201
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 3: Joe Airman's book is coaches are so important, but if

1202
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 3: you are a dysfunctional human, you're going to be dysfunctional

1203
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 3: towards your team. And this is the first year I

1204
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 3: really think I tried to really I was like, I

1205
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 3: can't get through to them, And where I probably would

1206
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 3: have just elevated my volume and demanded more, I was like,

1207
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 3: I think I really tried to see them, like what

1208
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 3: do they need from me? And I hate to say

1209
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 3: that that's coaching one oh one, but that's not how

1210
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 3: I've lived my life. When things didn't go well, you

1211
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 3: work harder, you grind more, and you stay in the office.

1212
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 3: Later you figure it out. And obviously that didn't work

1213
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 3: for a lot of people.

1214
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 2: And.

1215
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 3: I think that helped. I think that helped the vibe

1216
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 3: that they had with me, because I think they really

1217
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 3: felt that I was trying to help them and they

1218
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 3: were frustrated and they knew I was frustrated. But I

1219
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 3: think it helped them stay the course. And you know,

1220
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 3: I think last year, I think the team, the team

1221
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 3: got angry because I was demanding, demanding, demanding, and even

1222
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 3: though we won twenty games and finished second, as a coach,

1223
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 3: I just want to reach our potential, Like if that's

1224
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 3: eight games or twenty eight games, I want us to

1225
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 3: reach our potential. And I knew last year we didn't

1226
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 3: reach our potential, and so I just pushed them harder

1227
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 3: and harder and harder, and they they were sick of me,

1228
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 3: you know.

1229
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 1: So so here's the big question.

1230
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 2: Okay, when you go to the tournament two out of

1231
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,480
Speaker 2: three years, a place like Longwood that used to be

1232
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 2: a bye game, everybody would just count as a win

1233
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 2: in the win column, right, Like where the hell is

1234
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 2: Longwood's that's a win on anybody's schedule. So when you

1235
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 2: change that to three straight twenty one seasons and you're

1236
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 2: connected with with with Ryan and you're in the NCAA tournament, inevitably,

1237
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 2: when you make the nca term somehow you're a genius coach,

1238
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 2: whereas you might have won the league and you're no,

1239
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 2: you're not this genius. Right, That's the way this bizarre

1240
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 2: profession works.

1241
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 3: It's it's absolute, and I should say it's absolutely. You

1242
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 3: would never run your business this way. You would never

1243
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 3: run your household finance this way. You would say, give

1244
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,799
Speaker 3: me the guy who's got a track record, you know, right.

1245
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 2: Well, right, yes, yes, I would say, but like like

1246
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: look like like, look, you coach in AU, and I'm

1247
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 2: just and maybe part of this is me projecting kind

1248
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 2: of my own feelings, Like I understand that there's other

1249
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 2: things about running a basketball program that have nothing to

1250
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: do with actually coaching the games. But people ask all

1251
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 2: the times about like, well, you've never coached before, Like, dude,

1252
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 2: do you have any idea what it's like to coach

1253
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 2: in AU, especially when you have multiple levels, right when

1254
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 2: you have the twelves, thirteens, fourteens, and sixteens or something

1255
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 2: like that, and you go game to game to game

1256
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 2: and you can't coach every team the same because the

1257
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 2: players aren't the same. And then oh yeah, by the way,

1258
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 2: you don't actually know who's always going to show up.

1259
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 2: You just don't know. So it really prepares you for

1260
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 2: game management. You know, you got to communicate really well

1261
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 2: because you the timeouts are shorter, and the kid's attention

1262
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: span is bad and they're not you don't have practice

1263
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 2: fund practice.

1264
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: To drill things whatever.

1265
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 2: So it's so I understand like the alternative coaches I

1266
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 2: think is a Again, I just think it's a case

1267
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 2: by case scenario. Yeah, but my but the what I

1268
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 2: was and look to to back up, you wouldn't run

1269
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 2: a business this way is I tweeted this out I

1270
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: think yesterday, which or the day before, which is like,

1271
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 2: we do this insane thing every year on TV and

1272
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 2: radio we argue about these bubble teams. Right Meanwhile, like

1273
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 2: the bottom end of the of the tournament, it's like

1274
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 2: you could be a crummy team team wins your league

1275
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 2: by three or four games and then they drop one

1276
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 2: game in the tournament and they don't go to the ends.

1277
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: Like that makes sense, makes no sense.

1278
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 3: High Point High Points had an incredible year. Yeah, incredible year.

1279
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, But the high high level stuff feels

1280
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: very transactional now, yes, you know, feels very transaction Now.

1281
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 2: You were able to kind of put together this team

1282
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 2: and bring it together on the fly. And I don't

1283
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 2: know if that's more awarding or less rewarding than when

1284
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,759
Speaker 2: you build a team over time. But here's the question,

1285
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 2: is something greater part of the calling or is being

1286
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: Longwood's guy for twenty years to calling what's the calling?

1287
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 3: Well, I would probably quibble, and I know you didn't

1288
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 3: don't mean it this way. It probably depends on what

1289
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 3: you define greater, you know, and how how do you know?

1290
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: How do we I mean like you know what I mean?

1291
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah.

1292
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,759
Speaker 2: Like like wait, like like like Forbes leaves wake Forest

1293
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 2: and they call or you know whatever, yeah and or

1294
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 2: or you know, Tony decides I'm done with this stuff,

1295
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 2: like I can't do it the way I want to

1296
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: do it at Virginia.

1297
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: You know, Greater obviously is a is a loaded.

1298
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 3: They need an I am coach, But you know, I look,

1299
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 3: I think for us, one of the beauties of this

1300
01:15:55,479 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 3: is I'm I don't I'm not climbing a ladder. And

1301
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 3: if if we stay at Longwood for twenty years and

1302
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 3: that's what God has for us, I'm fired up. Like

1303
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 3: we have a I have a president and an ad

1304
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 3: and I'm not. This isn't coaching carriage cell job speak.

1305
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 3: This is legitimately, you know when.

1306
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,600
Speaker 2: They all do sound the same. Hey, I get the

1307
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 2: greatest cut I was. I was recruited by Jerry Green.

1308
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 2: I don't remember Jerry. Hey, Jerry's old Carolina guy. Okay,

1309
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,720
Speaker 2: so Jerry was the head coach at Orgon. I'll never

1310
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 2: forget this side. But I'm sitting out. I went to

1311
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 2: Not Dame. I left and got in trouble a bit,

1312
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 2: so I had to I couldn't transfer right away. I

1313
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 2: sat out for a year. So because you know, everything changes,

1314
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 2: it just made sense. Got my a degree at a

1315
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 2: junior college in California, and so I actually visited Oklahoma

1316
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: State and it was a terrible visit. Whether I got

1317
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 2: in laid it was one game, what wasn't a good game.

1318
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 2: And I went and Oregon played Arizona the next night,

1319
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 2: Matt Court amazing. I'm an unbelieve they beat Arizona, who

1320
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: won the national championship that year.

1321
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: They carried Jerry Green off the court. Okay, And two

1322
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: things turned me off. Three things. One I was at

1323
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 1: a party and it was like Cheeching Chong's van everywhere

1324
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 1: I went, and I was just I'm not.

1325
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 2: Like an anti weed guy, but in like college, I

1326
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 2: was just like this is nuts, Like I will lose

1327
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 2: my mind here, I will party my my balls off.

1328
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 2: But I tell this story all the time where the

1329
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 2: old Mac court they redid it several times, but this

1330
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 2: is before the last redo, before they built a new place.

1331
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 2: You sat in bleachers when you're on the team on

1332
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 2: the very bottom part of the bleachers. And as a recruit,

1333
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 2: my legs were to the back of the players. They're like, no,

1334
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 2: come sit down next to us. And the problem with

1335
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 2: was Jerry Green was he was like a Dean Smith,

1336
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: Roy Williams disciple. So he was just running guys in

1337
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 2: and out like no rhyme or reason. Seven dudes in

1338
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 2: and out and none of them had anything nice to

1339
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 2: say about him when they court, so.

1340
01:17:58,479 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: They're carrying them off the court.

1341
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 2: Meanwhile it's like, has no idea what he's doing right.

1342
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 2: Second thing was this though I never forget. He was

1343
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 2: at my house and uh, you know he's from the

1344
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 2: South and Tennessee came open. He was you know, there's

1345
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 2: rumors of him and tis I coach you and there's

1346
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 2: rumors of you in Tennessee. Is like Dougie, I got

1347
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: the greatest contract. I worked for an incredible president. Bill

1348
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 2: Knight's a personal friend of mine. You know, I have

1349
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: a rollover deal with a ten million dollar annuity. I

1350
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 2: am never leaving the university work and then literally next

1351
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 2: way he's putting out of Tennessee. But the volunteers.

1352
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,640
Speaker 1: He was amazing.

1353
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 3: No, I mean, and look, I don't I'm not sitting

1354
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 3: here saying ever what I think I'm where. I think

1355
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 3: I'm maybe different than at Jerry Green. I never expected this.

1356
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 3: I never expected to be a head coach. And then

1357
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 3: what's happened at Longwood with the new arena, our facilities,

1358
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,719
Speaker 3: like and I'm also Doug, I'm I'm I'm smart enough

1359
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 3: to know that this int me. I mean, it's it's

1360
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. And again, my faith is a

1361
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 3: big part of it. Like I think I've been blessed

1362
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 3: and been blessed to get the right recruits and probably

1363
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 3: miss on the wrong recruits. And so I just and

1364
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 3: I've got three kids who are in seven, six and

1365
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 3: third grade. And again I'm not saying we won't ever leave.

1366
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying I don't think I'll be putting

1367
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 3: on a Tennessee hat next week, but but I we're not.

1368
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 3: You know, I know a lot of coaches, And when

1369
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:47,799
Speaker 3: I was in law and when I was in private equity,

1370
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 3: I was this way, Okay, what's next, What's you know,

1371
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 3: what's what's the next firm? How do I climb? Like

1372
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 3: I'm not And and here's the other thing. I'm I'm

1373
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 3: so jack duh. I don't know if I can handle

1374
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 3: a higher love.

1375
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that that's a reason. That's a very reasonable thing.

1376
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 2: Or if you want to, right, because you don't have to,

1377
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: you don't want to. You're happy you got a really

1378
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 2: good gig, all right, last thing, and now you got

1379
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 2: to go. You've been really gracious with your time. We're

1380
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 2: a couple of years out now from it. Can you

1381
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 2: believe the Virginia thing happened?

1382
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: Like? Oh like again?

1383
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 2: And here's here, I'll give you my perspective about it

1384
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:34,560
Speaker 2: real quick. When I told you about my infatuation for Virginia. Obviously,

1385
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 2: the fact that you know Ryan's the head coach when

1386
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 2: it happens at the UNBC is incredible, right, the just incredible.

1387
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 2: My first game I called at CBS in the NCAA

1388
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 2: tournament and you know, like I was doing the same

1389
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 2: thing we were talking about. I was climbing, you know,

1390
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 2: I was an ESPN climbing climb comment. I took the

1391
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: CBS job because I always wanted to do the tournament.

1392
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 2: I always want to do the fon four my first job.

1393
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 2: In first game, we're in Salt Lake City and Southern

1394
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 2: playing Golenzaga, and Gonzag is a one seed, it was

1395
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 2: a sixteen seed, and the first game was which to

1396
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 2: stake Pittsburgh And I had known Greg Marshall since his

1397
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 2: days at Winthrop, and he and his wife used to

1398
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 2: hang out. We used to hang out the Final four

1399
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 2: and he used to ask me to introduce him to

1400
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 2: every I made as by director, right, so he was.

1401
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 2: Greg was awesome with me, and he was just like, hey,

1402
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 2: just so you know, like we're actually really good. We've

1403
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 2: been hurt all year, We're just now getting healthy. He's like,

1404
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 2: just don't be surprised. We kicked their asss I was like,

1405
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 2: all right, and they were down early and there was

1406
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 2: a it was the when the first year the elbowing

1407
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 2: rule became a flagrant and it was a terrible call

1408
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 2: and and to screwed up Pittsburgh and sure enough, which

1409
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 2: top boat raced him. So that was like my first

1410
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 2: and it was a modest upset. So Southern comes out,

1411
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 2: and you know, their band just sounds different than everybody

1412
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 2: else's band. It spends on so much better than everybody

1413
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 2: else's band, Like I don't no, literally, they tune the

1414
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 2: instruments better. It's crazy and and I remember watching them

1415
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 2: practice the day before talking to their coaches, and their

1416
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 2: coaches were like, man, our assistant coaches are. They have

1417
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 2: to run study hall, they drive the players around like

1418
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 2: it's we have no facilities, nothing, Like we're not even

1419
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 2: be able to make danceay term next year because our

1420
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 2: APR is so bad, like them like they have no

1421
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,959
Speaker 2: And then Gonzaga walks in and it's it's like royalty

1422
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 2: walks in. You know, their uniforms are brand new, their

1423
01:22:29,439 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 2: sneakers are better Mark few.

1424
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: It's like a symphony.

1425
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Four minutes and fourteen seconds to go in the game

1426
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:41,520
Speaker 2: and it's tied and Southern has the ball, and Spirodidas

1427
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 2: and I are like grabbing each other like, don't fuck

1428
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 2: this up. We're gonna call the first ever sixteen CD

1429
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 2: to be to one, like we're all on on upset alert.

1430
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 2: Everybody's all the TVs are turning to our game and

1431
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 2: we're and Gonzaga like pulled it out, and I just

1432
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 2: remember thinking like.

1433
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ever gonna happen.

1434
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 2: And you thought of it happened, it would happen in

1435
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 2: one of those crazy, super low scoring Princeton Georgetown. We

1436
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 2: grew up watching where somebody throws in a crazy shot

1437
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 2: at the end of the game and everybody goes nuts. Well,

1438
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 2: when it actually happened, it was an ass whooping, like

1439
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 2: it just spiraled completely out of control. So now a

1440
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 2: couple of years later, tell me, tell me what memories

1441
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 2: you have.

1442
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 3: I remember, I remember being shocked. I remember in the

1443
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 3: first half it was there's like maybe the eight minute

1444
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 3: under eight media timeout, and as I told one of

1445
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 3: the assistants, Nate Dixon, I said, we can play with

1446
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 3: these guys, like we can play with them. What a

1447
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 3: lot of people didn't remember about that team is that

1448
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 3: that team almost beat SMU, which was a top twenty

1449
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 3: five team at the beginning of the season, without that

1450
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:14,560
Speaker 3: little point guard kJ Mora. Yeah, And we played Arizona

1451
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 3: two days later, a day and a half later, and

1452
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 3: had it to four with twelve minutes left in the

1453
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 3: second half. We were up seven at Maryland at halftime.

1454
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 3: So the team was older and it had confidence, So

1455
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 3: I don't think they were terrified of the moment, you know,

1456
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 3: and the dynamic of that, the personality of that of

1457
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 3: the leaders of that team were like, yeah, let's go

1458
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 3: hoop and and I remember I was shocked that we

1459
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,680
Speaker 3: were getting such wide open shots. That's what I mean.

1460
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 3: We were making shots, and we're making some hard shots,

1461
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 3: but we were also twisting ball screens and rejecting and

1462
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 3: you know, slicing and dicing and making the extra pass.

1463
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,759
Speaker 3: I mean, it was it was a thing of beauty.

1464
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 3: And and then and then everybody's making shots and they're

1465
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:22,599
Speaker 3: not making shots, and you could just see it. And

1466
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:25,799
Speaker 3: I think them missing DeAndre Hunter. A lot of people

1467
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 3: forget that that was huge.

1468
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,759
Speaker 1: That was huge, course, no, it it and and and

1469
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 1: and but but you know, there wasn't a guy in

1470
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: your team.

1471
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 2: They would have offered a scussion too, right, Okay, And

1472
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 2: that's but it's a it's a terrible drug that you

1473
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 2: fed us all because you made everybody believe that that's possible,

1474
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 2: which I guess it always is possible.

1475
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 3: But well, I actually I actually think it's more possible

1476
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 3: today than it was when it happened at UNBC because

1477
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 3: of the transfer portal. Because they're kids like Shiman and

1478
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 3: Elijah who you know, they played against those guys and

1479
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:15,599
Speaker 3: now maybe you know, if they have a good night,

1480
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 3: everybody else has a bad night. And then The other

1481
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 3: thing is it's not a long pressure on sixteen, you know.

1482
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 2: No, and then and once you get to and like

1483
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 2: and the other part about that game I didn't tell

1484
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 2: the story was and I said this in the broadcast,

1485
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 2: was and suddenly there's twelve thousand, two thousand Southern fans.

1486
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Yes, like it's eighteen thousands. He places like five thousand

1487
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: Good Zega fans. And suddenly twelve everybody's cheering for you. Yes,

1488
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's nuts.

1489
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 3: Well, that was wild. And the other thing I'll say too,

1490
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 3: Ryan and Tony Bennett. I think we're very friendly. Ryan

1491
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 3: really looks up to Tony just how he coaches his faith.

1492
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 3: I think Ryan really aspires to a lot of what

1493
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 3: coach Bennett does. So, but it was wild to be

1494
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 3: especially in the second half. And I remember again at

1495
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 3: the eight minute mark, we're up sixteen, and I said,

1496
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 3: I don't think they can score fast enough. You know

1497
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 3: how slow they play. Yeah, I don't think I don't

1498
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 3: think they can. I don't think they can catch up.

1499
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 3: And you know, and it was incredible. Probably half of

1500
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: the arena, maybe even more was Virginia fans dead quiet dead,

1501
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 3: you know, because like you said, this wasn't like, hey,

1502
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 3: it's a nip and tuck game. And then we won

1503
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 3: like to Purdue, you know FDU game. This was everybody's gone,

1504
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 3: what are we watching? Like, what is happening right now?

1505
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 3: And quick funny story and I let you go. We

1506
01:28:03,160 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 3: have a text string with that that team and you

1507
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 3: know it probably texts, you know, a couple of times

1508
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 3: a year, and they h that night that uh Fairley

1509
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,759
Speaker 3: Dickinson was about to be was getting close to Purdue.

1510
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:31,679
Speaker 3: The text started coming and you know, after the horn

1511
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 3: sounds and they win. Uh, this is the funniest thing.

1512
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 3: I think. One of the old assistants goes, well, it

1513
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 3: looks like we have looks like we have company boys.

1514
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 3: And Joe Sherburn, who you know was was one of

1515
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 3: our key players because yeah, dot dot dot. But imagine

1516
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 3: beating a one seed by only whatever they beat him.

1517
01:28:55,080 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: By you we woke their ass. We were no doubt.

1518
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so imagine imagine did you get the walk on him?

1519
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 3: I'm sure we did. I'm sure it.

1520
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 2: Wasn't that amazing, Like that's the story. The story is

1521
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 2: not that you won the game. The story is that

1522
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,880
Speaker 2: the walk Ons got in like yeah, they would have

1523
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 2: thought they were getting in that game, but in a

1524
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:20,719
Speaker 2: completely different context.

1525
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 3: Well, that's what happened two years ago when we were

1526
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 3: playing Tennessee. We were with them at ten minutes and

1527
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:32,640
Speaker 3: I still remember, I don't know who the interview lady was.

1528
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 3: And we're down twenty five at half and they can't

1529
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 3: mess and they're beating the brakes off of us, and

1530
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 3: she goes, well, you know what adjustments? You know? Do

1531
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 3: you think you're gonna make it halftime? And I looked

1532
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 3: at her and I said, I don't know, do you

1533
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:53,640
Speaker 3: have any suggestions?

1534
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 1: Amazing?

1535
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 3: So anyway, good times, good times.

1536
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 1: Well listen, I like your club.

1537
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 2: Uh awesome, you turned this thing around, and let's see

1538
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 2: who you get on Sunday. Yeah, and talk again, talk

1539
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 2: again soon. But I do appreciate you joining me.

1540
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, thanks for coming out to uh, to the

1541
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 3: to the tournament.

1542
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 1: That place high point. Holy cow.

1543
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 3: They gotta go on. They got it, they.

1544
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 1: Got it, they got to going. That's what That's what

1545
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 1: investment in resources looks like. That's what looks like. Yes, wow,

1546
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 1: how about that? Huh?

1547
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 2: I mean you think you sacrificed something for your job,

1548
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 2: for your life and then you listen to Griff could

1549
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,160
Speaker 2: be fascinating to see what happens if jobs in Houston,

1550
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 2: which there's a potential for a really good job I

1551
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 2: think in Houston to come open. If that brings him

1552
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 2: quote unquote home, be fascinating to see. But if that's

1553
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:09,679
Speaker 2: not a story of a guy who has his prioriti

1554
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 2: as an order, I don't I don't know what is.

1555
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 2: I did want to point this out, the strangeness to

1556
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:21,760
Speaker 2: the exercise we go through with all the arguing over

1557
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 2: who's in and who's out. We're trying to figure out

1558
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:30,639
Speaker 2: Indiana State versus Saint John's, right, and Saint John's They're okay,

1559
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 2: they got twelve losses. They'll unless they win the Big

1560
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:38,719
Speaker 2: East Tournament, they'll have thirteen losses to end their season.

1561
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 2: And you're trying to weigh their season their success against

1562
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 2: Indiana State, for example, who's like twenty five and six

1563
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 2: six losses in a conference that everyone would consider inferior.

1564
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:52,759
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Saint John's.

1565
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:56,439
Speaker 2: Didn't beat any of the good teams, right, they just didn't.

1566
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 2: They didn't beat Marquette full strength, didn't beat you cut

1567
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:01,760
Speaker 2: of full strength. So don't tell me how great they are,

1568
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 2: you know, And they didn't beat anybody in the NY

1569
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 2: Conference that matters. So if the argument is, well, they

1570
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 2: play in a better league, like they beat in those

1571
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 2: teams in the better league, they lost to average teams,

1572
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 2: they lost the good teams, and Indiana State lost the

1573
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 2: good teams as well. But we're going back and forth,

1574
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 2: which one of these teams should get in the tournament?

1575
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 2: And yet and like again, this is to Gryffaldrich's team.

1576
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 2: They finished in fifth place in their league. Granted it's

1577
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 2: not a balanced league schedule, but high Point was the

1578
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 2: best team. High Point, based upon being the best team

1579
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 2: of the season, truly belongs in the tournament. Isn't it

1580
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 2: interesting though, that we argue whether or not these teams

1581
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 2: that are not I mean the State it's the best

1582
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 2: team in their league or the second best team in

1583
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 2: the league. But anyone is allowed in if you win

1584
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 2: your conference tournament, regardless if you're good or not. And

1585
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:55,320
Speaker 2: yet we only grant entry at the bottom end of

1586
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 2: the tournament or in the middle of the tournament. I

1587
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 2: guess with the at large teams two very very verge

1588
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 2: teams at best. It's just I don't know, that's how

1589
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 2: my brain's work. We talk about the best we let

1590
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:13,400
Speaker 2: anybody in, and then we argue over the teams that

1591
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 2: have had successful seasons on their level or disappointing seasons

1592
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:18,800
Speaker 2: on their.

1593
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: Level, but are they good enough to gain entry.

1594
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 2: It's a very, very weird thing that doesn't occur, I

1595
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 2: don't think in any other tournament, in any other gathering,

1596
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 2: any other place. The idea that last place is Montana State,

1597
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:34,720
Speaker 2: not really competitive in the big big sky. Great win

1598
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 2: for them to beat Montana, but they're in the tournament.

1599
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 2: And yet we're arguing whether or not Indiana State, who

1600
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 2: had a great year, or Saint John's who had a

1601
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:44,839
Speaker 2: good turnaround year belonging to the tournament.

1602
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: Does anybody else see the weirdness to that?

1603
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:51,879
Speaker 2: Reminded The Doug Gottlieb Show airs daily three to five Eastern.

1604
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 1: Of course, we have an hour podcast.

1605
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 2: You just type of Doug Gottlieb and you if you

1606
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 2: download this podcast, you download that one.

1607
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:01,120
Speaker 1: In the meantime, I like this stories. Make the story.

1608
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 2: We'll see if that's saying lasts until the next time.

1609
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 2: I'm dog gottlie This is all ball