WEBVTT - Better Offline CES 2025: Day 3 - Part 2 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:06.360 A media scorn by some, hated by all, welcomes a 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:20.759 better offline. I'm your host ed Zichron. We are still 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.160 at the Consumer Electronics Show. Due to events beyond my control. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.800 We are recording at like eight pm, which means we're 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:32.120 all feeling great, but thankfully, thankfully, we're now joined by 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.000 David Roth of DEFECTA. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:35.239 Hi, how's it going? 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:36.640 Yeah, he's loving the show. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:38.440 Yeah, I'm sorry. Is this too much energy? I can 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.839 take it down if this is if I'm like blowing 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:42.400 the monitors a little much. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.280 If this is always a problem. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.559 So you all are feeling weird because you've been at 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.760 CES for a long time, and I'm feeling weird because 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.760 I've been at CS for like five hours and. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:53.600 That's all it takes. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.600 Yeah, I mean, maybe do you what is it that 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.080 you acclimate? Right, Like, eventually at some point you're just 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.840 kind of like, wow, Scottish, I'm glad you've got AI 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:02.160 in that. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.360 So what what happens is that you get really sleep deprived, Right, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.760 You're on your feet all day and then you don't 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.959 sleep and you don't eat properly, and so like your 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.640 brain just kind of like slowly shuts down on the 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:15.800 last like, yeah. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:15.960 Oh cool. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.520 So it's like it's like dying, but it kind of 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.039 like awakens in a weird way. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.000 Yeah, you know, like. 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.960 You it's actually like an undeath like I can. 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.720 So when you go like in two thousand and one, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.200 like you go through the stargate, you encounter yourself in 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.560 a weird yeom and it's like an old version. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:34.319 Of you or a baby. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:35.920 Yeah. And then but and then at the end, yeah, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.240 the child turns to regard you. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.039 So just just to introduce the other characters we've gone 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.640 with us a product, give me a way too much 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.280 in two thousand and one, there's a whole lot, there's 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.080 like two and a half. Okay, let's just say who 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.800 you are, though Namaya, wonderful auto journalist, you join me 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:53.960 on a previous episode here in Las Vegas, Nevada. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:55.520 Good to see you again, Good to see you. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.200 Jared Neuman, Freelanca. Wonderful to be here, great to be here. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:00.800 Thank you. Correct. 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.400 Now, the effect that David is describing is actually remarkable 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:08.040 because it is true CES veterans generally experienced what I'm 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:09.040 experiencing right now. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.360 I'm in like the cocoons stage. 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.720 Which is you go through the Valley of the Shadow 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.240 of Death and look at your life. Nope, I and 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.639 you sit there and you go, I'm dying. And then 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.400 you get tomorrow. Like halfway through, you just get a 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.639 second and third win, win to even, and that's when 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:30.000 you fully jokeiphi and everything becomes darkly funny, you know, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:31.480 oh aiys and everything. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.240 Wouldn't it be bad if that would happen? 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.960 So I'm jokeafying the next three episodes, which is gonna 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:39.760 be great. But David, it's great to have you here 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.800 because not only are you at your first CS, you're 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:43.840 not a tech journalist. 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:44.600 You cover sports. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:44.760 No. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.960 I had to say that to somebody earlier today because 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.760 I was playing around. I was down there with our 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.000 friend Jesse Ferrara, who I was on I Believe with 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:52.920 you this afternoon. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:53.400 No. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.560 Oh, did he just came in to say Hi? Well, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:56.360 do you not. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.720 Remember you haven't been on the microphone yet? 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.560 Man, No, I don't know. I wasn't on with him. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:01.520 I don't know what you do back. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:03.280 No, he was on the show. Sorry, that's what I 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:04.880 was suggesting. You forgot the No. 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.919 No, So I saw Jesse and we walked around for 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.080 a bit and we were playing with a device I 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:15.080 guess was designed to give a pleasing jet of air 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.600 to your pet. It was a pet massager. It was 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:19.640 an air pet massage. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.600 Okay, I think I saw them as well. Was that 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.400 the one with the spike at the bottom with the 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.560 pet is allegedly meant. 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.280 To rub against No, you're well, yes, it's the same company, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.280 but this was a different product. And I was messing 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.160 around with this one and they were fine with it, 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.400 and a lady was kind of trying to sell me 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.080 on this, and even though I told her, I was like, 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.240 I have a turtle like and I don't have a dog. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:40.840 I don't think the turtle would like it. I don't 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.680 think the turtle really likes anything that I do. I 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.760 hadn't eaten, so I did tell them about the turtle. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.240 That was unnecessary. It was wasting their time. And at 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:49.600 some point she was like, well, I can see that 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.720 you looked at my Okay, man, the totshit is my 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.640 lanyard and it's a you know, defector, which nobody knows 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.720 fuck that is. And if they did know, they'd be like, oh, yeah, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.480 the one with the where Ray Ratto makes fun of 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.080 the raider. Yeah, like that website, and so she's like 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:04.480 I could see that you're you know, it's just a 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.920 work in design, and I was like, ma'am, I'm a 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.480 sports writer. And that was more or less enough because 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.400 you're basically saying like, first of all, I'm an idiot, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.240 which you've already observed. Second of all, like I'm not 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.640 like rich either, and I already told you I don't 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.760 have a dog, so like, we really don't have very 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.400 much life to talk about. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.560 They tried to sell me a fifteen thousand dollars baseball simulator, 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:25.360 which was very cool. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:27.640 Dude. I was ready to buy that. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.200 It was so cool, Like those are the only honest 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:31.400 people in this Yeah. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:32.880 There was a guy in there with one of the 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.240 best of the Like if you guys like played softball 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:37.640 at all or do you, like, are you familiar with 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.520 there's like an aesthetic of like a slow pitch softball 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.680 body type, and it is like you can be a 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.640 really good softball hitter with a body that would not 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.279 seemingly be suited for any sport. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:51.480 Was he just crushing it. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.320 Crushing it a sweet left handed swing and it's like 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.159 a similar it is like a golf simulat yeah. So 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.560 it's like showing you where in Yankee Stadium the fucking 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.760 tank shot that you just hit was. Oh, and he 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:04.919 was just launching them into the batter's eye. But he 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.560 was shaped like the grimace from McDonald land and I 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.120 could have watched him do that all day. I mean 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.159 maybe that's more of like a day four of to 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:14.560 be clear. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.840 I was there earlier and they were like, oh, you 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.920 should try it. I'm like, I'm really bad. I'm really 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:20.839 I'm bad, and they're like, oh, come on, come on. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.760 I'm like, no, I'm really bad, and I stopped British. 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.560 I am modest about how good he is a base, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:26.560 I'm the bridge. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.800 I'm a British Man who knows what kbo is. And 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:30.560 then they're like no going. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.520 I'm like, I'm really bad, And then I was I 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.480 fucking missed it. It is a stationary object and I 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.960 like barely like grounded out to the well middlefield and 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.520 I was like, I hold you and they're like, yeah, okay, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:42.360 we should. 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.200 We should have believed you. I'm sorry. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.280 My version of this was a few years back. I 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.320 stopped by the nine Bot booth when they had all this. 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.760 It was like his proliferation of various like small electric 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.520 like one wheel or like little skate roller skates and 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.719 all kind of electric or whatever, and people kept product 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.560 special is, kept being like, oh these are anyone can 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.200 do these. And I would get all these various like 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.279 you know things that we look one wheel the unicycle 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.400 and then the one on each and like I every 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.280 single I just kept falling down and falling out. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.440 I'm not doing that. That sounds like how I would die. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.320 Yeah, no, if I told my parents, if they my 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.160 parents found out I mean that I died getting on 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.560 like a cheap unicycle at a consumer electronics show, my 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.840 parents would not. They would just be like, oh, yeah, 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.760 that sure, I fully believe that. Just where can we 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.040 find the body is it's still on the floor, Like. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.440 Yeah, I could see that was my I mean the 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.280 real trepidation with the swaying thing was that there were 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.320 other people around. But the idea of me like going 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.680 down with it, like six to eight weeks within obleikue 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.159 strain within my first like I haven't showered here yet, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:46.840 do you know what I mean? 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:51.640 Like I got gen Carlos stands in its whole like he's. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.880 Torso fenestrated we've never seen it. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:55.800 You need to train next year. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.240 Yeah, you know, like make sure that's that's a bit 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:00.440 of advice that everybody's giving me about Sea. Yes, they're 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.719 mostly people are like, here's where you can get drugs, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.400 and then they're also like you gotta stretch. 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.920 It's from but Evans. He's just saying the gas station mushrooms. Yeah, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.280 I before did he offer you the mushrooms? 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.480 I mean he offers you very gentlemanly various various things. Yes, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.280 he had just like a still have pulling stuff out 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.200 of his bag. I imagine it's like what's seeing Carrot 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:23.080 Top is like. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.360 Have you done an episode like that's like the guided 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.800 tour of the Nevada gas station, like the one all 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.840 the wonders because I hadn't know it, Like I have 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.000 no idea that these things exist in stations. Yeah, so 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.000 he got we do, but we don't have like baking mushrooms. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.200 You can't get mushrooms there. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.760 Well, I don't think the real Yeah that I mean 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:41.600 mushrooms are real. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.840 These were they've had a lot of words on them 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.960 and yeah, but the packaging looked like big league chww. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:50.920 It's that is. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.520 On the back. It said this is not an authorized product. 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.520 Was like it was like looking for the Union label, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.520 like being like, all right, well this isn't this doesn't 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:01.000 have anything. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.640 Well Robert, then he would say that like a point 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.480 of pride. Though you'd be like, and this is not approved. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:09.040 Not for human consumption. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:13.640 That I enjoyed about that was your friend Garrison. 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:15.400 Yeah, like call me. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.440 That was like you just get a stomach ache, Like 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.440 it's not gonna like that. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.320 Yeah. It also had a had a list of other ingredients, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.000 but it didn't say like what the the main ingredients. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:33.240 Were ingredients just like miscellaneous. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.160 Yeah, natural flavors, they're not. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.520 They're not purporting to tell you that there are hallucinogenic 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.800 mushrooms in there. But it has niosin and it was 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.079 made in a facility that processes tree nuts. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:50.080 It's just all the we put somehow. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.080 Okay, So Ed you cover auto's in general and you 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:55.400 follow Elon Musk around. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.439 Why what are you here for? Is there a big 0:08:58.480 --> 0:08:59.720 mobility section here? 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:00.400 Yeah? 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.920 Yeah, so I didn't mean dismiss it. No, you didn't 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:03.320 ask me. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.080 He was just like I don't know you. Well, yeah 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.839 you brought me here with me. Yeah that's true. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.560 But anyway, No, so, like a few years ago, quite 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.160 a few years ago actually before I started coming. Basically 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.360 like car shows are this antiquated thing, right, it's like 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.560 a one hundred year old plus tradition. Uh, you know, 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.280 as auto industry is sort of mature, the juice has 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:27.680 gone out of it. Like once upon a time, like 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.400 car shows were like like Detroit with Silicon Valley and 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:31.400 car shows there the. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.720 Purpose of the having not been to any seen them 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.439 kind of from the distance. What is the actual purpose 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.440 of a carsh Is it to sell? Cause to consumers 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:39.960 there's like is there. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.640 Yeah, so so well so now it's like all bifurcated, right, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.079 so so the ones that have survived are mostly like 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.040 small regional ones and it's literally just like here are 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.440 the cars that are for sale now and you can 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.920 go and said it's actually like a useful thing. But 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.319 facing yeah, but like so like originally it was it 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.520 was like here's introducing new models, introducing new technologies. And 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.240 then also like again like Detroit was the Silicon Value 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.920 of the twentieth century and just like these whole futurist 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.440 visions and like entertainment and like you know, celebrities, it 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:07.920 was a show. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:09.480 My dad used to take me to the one at 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.640 the Jacob Javitt Center in New York City. Yeah, and 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.280 it was like as a you know whatever, ten twelve 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.480 years old, Like that was the coolest shit I'd ever seen. Yeah, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.800 the concept cars like looked I mean if they just 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.560 I mean, none of them as far as I can tell, 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.160 like came to market. Like it wasn't the sort of 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.440 thing where it was like, oh yeah I saw him 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.560 playing rookie ball. It was like something where they were like, yeah, 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.199 it's got a nuclear reactor in it, and I got 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.280 to sit at it and be like sick. And that 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.280 was it. But that was the last anyone saw of it. Yeah. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.160 Yeah, So they'll show these concept cars to sort of 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.960 like sort of signal like the future direction that the 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.160 styling's going to take, and judge the sort of response 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.920 to it and whatever. And again like that, there's a 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:43.960 long tradition of like pageantry that sort of has like 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.920 faded out over the years, right, like come one of 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.719 the things that almost does not to throw that in there, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.480 but he's bring that back. He's like kind of a 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.719 throwback to this old school showbiz version of it. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.240 But it also sucks well. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.319 And so so these car shows were losing their steam 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.440 as cars were becoming these like anonymous entertainable applients, right, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.360 these were this is a connected trend. And then tech 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.960 started happening and cars they had someone had the great 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.640 idea that cars could be or really should be devices, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:18.800 and with that CS became actually the most important. Like 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.800 twenty I'm gonna get called out for not knowing the 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.120 exact day, but it's like twenty fourteen, like mid twin cards. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.520 Yeah, like you don't have to know stuff on the 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:27.079 show don't work. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.400 Actually it was littler than that, I think. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:28.640 Cool. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.079 But so what's the distinction with devices? Is it basically 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.920 is it like teslification of the like where it's like 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.600 touchscreens and applications. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.600 And is it the designs to standardized as well. 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.080 So yeah, so it's a lot of things. So it's 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.400 it's it's so really what it comes down to is 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.920 tech sort of thinks that everything should be like it, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.080 and it looks at cars and it sees a platform 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.319 and it says, we need to take this platform and 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.440 make it, make it like us. And you know, some 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.200 good things that have actually come along with that, like electrification, right, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.240 Like electrification is good for completely other reasons. Tech and 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.520 tech money likes it because, you know, the idea of 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.000 replacing what'sever replacing electron or atoms with electrons is like 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.920 this sort of core ideological thing that everyone texts like, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.679 oh yeah, Like anytime you make something more digital, more controllable, 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:23.120 more computerized, that's just like this intrinsically good thing. Electrification 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.440 fits in with that. It makes cars literally more like 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.240 computers and more like and more like smartphones to the extent, 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.280 and like Tesla is. The interesting thing about Tesla is 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.680 is that it really just exemplifies this in this visual way, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.079 like I talked about in my book the touch screen, right, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.720 and like it's it's like tail fins on a in 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.080 the nineteen fifties. In the nineteen fifties, the other big 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.240 technology was airplanes and rockets. Like that was the hot 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.800 that was the pinnacle of high technology, right, and cars 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.160 were already sort of starting to lose. And there were 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:57.600 sort of two ways you could go with that. One 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.240 was you could put a rocket engine into a car, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.400 which the right companies absolutely did, including with like taxpayer 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.439 to dollars and like all kinds. But it was a 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.040 dumb idea and it never went anywhere. What the smart 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.480 approach was put tail fins on, make the cars look 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.719 like airplanes, appropriate the aesthetics and associate with this other 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.000 technology and so like, that's what Tesla has really done 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.520 in a lot of ways. They caught the iPhone of cars. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.320 It's a purely aesthetic thing. The screen and the UI 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.080 are more like a smartphone than anything else. Whether or 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.480 not that is a good thing for how you operate 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.160 a car never gets questioned. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.680 They also took advantage of the fact that when the 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.080 first test thats were coming out, most cars had yet 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.760 to really modernize in that level. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.840 Right, Yeah, no, they were, they were. It was good. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.920 It was good in comparison to most car UIs uh, I. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.600 Think that's like it's a pill an open question. 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:47.160 Yeah. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.199 No, I had a Fall of Ours sixty and twenty twelve. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.160 That was my last car for I had a Tesla 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:52.920 for a few years. Yeah, it was a big jump. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.800 It was more like I could do the things I 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.520 wanted to do in a way that made sense because 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.520 the way they had buttons work was kind. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:00.480 Of like the devil made them. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:01.120 Yeah. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.800 The problem is now Volvo is the best electric because 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.600 it just works normal. I realize I've basically taught myself 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.720 into a corner here, soue. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.880 No, No, I mean, well, I you know, I think for me, 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.320 the open and unresolved question is like what makes a 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.600 car good? And I think as time goes on, right, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.560 like when I look at this stuff, people like it 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.120 because they think that the iPhone is the best product 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.120 that we've seen in our lifetime. Like ever, if you 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.840 pick one good product, the iPhone is like one that 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.880 changed everything and associating with it like this looks and 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.920 feels like a knife, it must be it must be good. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.680 But again, like when you're driving a car, you know, 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.920 being able to reach over and there's knob there that's 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.200 always there and you can just change the volume. And 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.960 you know, for me, like I enjoy driving and like 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.080 I take I kind of get engaged with it, choose 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.680 to engage with it, and so less distraction like more 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.040 just sort of direct engagement with the mechanical car's mechanical 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.560 device for me is good. And then and the big 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.680 thing is robustness because when you add these screens, right, 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.160 so like the screen the model s that changed everything, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.480 It was like this is what the future is gonna 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.960 be the reason they were able to put a bigger 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.160 screen in that car than anyone else. And in fact, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.800 I don't know, I'm sure there's bigger screens now, but 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.880 it took a really long time for there to be 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.320 a screen as big as the one in the Model 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.760 Esque and it was because Tesla simply didn't use an 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.640 automotive grade screen, so to put. Yeah, so there's a 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.720 whole thing. There's consumer grade, there's like industrial grade, and 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:24.600 really what these are is you take the device and 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.000 you put it through a series of like mostly thermal testing, 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.600 and automotive grade is like the highest one. And like, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.280 this is what the auto industry does well, is they 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.160 make things that are robust so that every time you 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.160 go out in the car, whether it's in freezing weather 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.680 or hot weather or rain or it just always works. 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.440 All things I associate with Tesla. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:41.760 Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. There's like a 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.200 kind of an ominous bit of foreshadowing. Yeah, where they 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:45.800 were just like, well, well we'll just put it in. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.280 To be clear, I had to test her in like 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.720 twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen. Yeah, listeners are gonna absolutely 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.359 beat my ass in the comments. 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:53.400 So I don't have on the podcast. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.080 But so just to get past the good bad thing, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.960 let's just say everything's a trade off, right, And so 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.040 what we're doing as cars we come more like devices 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.400 is yeah, we're getting they're connected, they're interactive. Now, they're 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.960 software defined. You can change how your car looks with 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.560 over their updates and all. You know, all these things 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.840 have opened up, but you've lost the robustness of the 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.600 core you know, function of the car, which is driving 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.040 around and getting you from from pointed. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.280 And is this something that's affecting more than just Tesla. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.200 Yeah, yeah, So what Tesla has done in this right, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.200 it is its legitimized what the car companies have always 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.040 wanted to do but we're afraid to do because they 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.600 thought consumers would there be backlash to it, which is 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.280 cut quality, right, And what Tesla it's not just we're 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.520 but like by putting everything on the screen, then you 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.240 don't have to have switches, you have to have buttons. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.560 Those are the things that the car companies are copying 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:44.920 because it saves them money. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:45.840 It feels like. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.960 We're gonna take the piss era of society. Just like 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.640 it's like every company's like testing boundaries. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.240 Yeah, Tesla's not here at CS right, Tesla has never 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.600 done Yeah, that's actually one of the things that that 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.600 I think was good with the sort of how they've 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.520 done the brand building stuff is they don't do they 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.680 they don't show concepts, right if they show you a car. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.280 This has changed Okay, yeah, this has changed more recently, 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:12.879 but like historically when they were building the brand, it 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:14.320 was like they would show you a car. It would 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.439 change maybe a little bit to production, but basically they 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.600 were showing you the car that you were going to 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.280 be able to buy. You wouldn't be able to get 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.480 it at the price, you know, there would be all 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:22.960 kinds of other things that would happen by the time 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.720 you got it, but but visually that was really important. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.280 They didn't show you something that they had no intention 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:30.960 of making, which every other car does. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.960 Come on again, this is this has changed. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.199 Okay, So like the roads during the semi Yeah, this, 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.320 I mean the road the classic Progesla during the period 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.520 where they're when you like, I'm so sorry, no, no, no, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:46.760 I mean it's a good point. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.720 It's actually an interesting gradual thing with them. There was 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.520 a point when they said stuff and then it happened. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.239 Yeah. Yeah, well and they were doing new things. As 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.480 you said, they were doing things that to you were 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.760 really you were like, this is this is good, this 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.640 is I feel like also, Tesla's just didn't change after 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:04.240 a certain point. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.080 They just got worse in different ways. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.399 Yeah, well that's what I gather that. That's what you 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.320 meant by the sort of like the taking the pissy. Yeah, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.520 that it's like you develop a product that like people like, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.720 and then the game becomes trying to see how much 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:22.200 worse you can make it and they'll describing right, but like, yeah, 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.120 basically everything, it's just every day that's like the toilet 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.399 based private equity buying newspapers. It's also like you know 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:29.720 all the. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.800 Other I need to find like some rich people to 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.320 help me buy the Washington Post, Like that would just 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:36.720 be the best thing I will run it. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.880 You're going to become the first tech journalist to try 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:39.879 to buy the Washington Post. 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.959 Yeah, yeah, the first one where aviate is by the 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.960 Washington Post. Yes, no, that would That's one of those 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.080 ideas that I'm going to start saying. And I think 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.320 what's great about it is it could never happen. But 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.840 saying it enough, people will be like maybe this could 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.639 and that really upset them, which is really most of 0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.119 my bag. 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.360 Moving the Overton window. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:02.120 Yeah, I'm moving the oval. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.200 Yeah you got to move that window to move open 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:05.760 it a little bit. 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.720 So Jared, this is how many? Yeah, just getting you. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.119 How many cees is for you? How many of you thinks. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.720 This is thirteen or four? 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:13.919 Oh? 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:15.639 My god Christ? How many of them? 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.280 Guess? Uh? The history goes back to before it was 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.200 called c Yes, it was like Condex or. 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.639 Something compy text. Now that it's not the one in time. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.639 I think it was Condex. Sad that I don't know 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:29.080 the history. 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.320 I would if anyone gets mad at you, I will 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:32.560 set my pigs on them. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.000 Before we were recording people, you were part of this 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:40.880 conversation about like legendary cees, fuck shit moments. The Yo 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.200 party was the one that people were talking about. 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.960 But like, I wasn't cool in that my friends went 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:47.760 given it. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.000 Everybody here was just talking about being like I've been 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.040 here since Monday and I've seen things you people wouldn't 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.440 believe thirteen years. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:57.840 The funny thing is that I don't end up going 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.960 to a ton of parties, but I do I was 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.679 talking about earlier a few years ago. It was like 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.040 five six years ago. I had been here for a 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.560 long time, maybe four or five six days or something. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.240 It was my last day, and I knew there was 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.080 like there were a few things that I like still 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.800 wanted to see, and I was gonna leave later in 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.160 the day, and so I I got on the monorail 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.280 and I went to the convention center. And I got 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.560 off the monorail and I started walking into the convention 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.360 center and I kind of just had like a physical reaction, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.439 like the closer I got. Yeah, and I describe it. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:35.600 So I just turned around and left. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.760 That's yeah, way to practice self care. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.800 Yeah, it was basically your body telling you that you've 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:42.359 had enough. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.560 I think I think I just rejected Vegas. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.240 If I worked, if I walked away every time I 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:48.520 felt like that, I wouldn't move. 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.040 Yeah. The thing is like so Vegas itself is one 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.639 of those places where it's like, way if you hit 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.600 three days, like even if you're trying to have fun 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.879 the whole, like you just cannot do more than about 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.880 three days. Yep. And then with Cees you add all 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.040 of the everything else on top of it. The absurdity, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.560 like the and the walking. 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:06.959 I mean, yeah, that's the other thing. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:08.680 So I think a lot of people when they're doing 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.440 like excess in Vegas, they're not taking like fifteen thousand steps. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.320 That is extill so to come actually not true. 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.919 Really, Oh you get enough dipshit bachelor party ones and 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.560 then you get lost, you will walk in three miles. 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.359 But that makes some sense. I did get lost a 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.560 good amount today. But I also, like, I mean whatever, 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.160 I haven't done hardly done Vegas as an adult at all. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.679 And so the idea of like the bit of today 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:33.720 that I liked was that, like, my legs feel a 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.000 little bit sore now, well, like twenty five degrees in 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.000 New York City right now, Like I legit did not 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:40.240 leave my apartment on Monday. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.760 I got I'm working. Yeah, Like it. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.560 Feets into that like tapping, tapping a weal of energy 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:45.840 that you. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.040 So we have a small announcement, David, do you mind 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.360 turning your microphone to Phil? So it has been eight 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:51.600 cs is Phil. 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.080 Yep, I've been here. This is my eighth ses to 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:54.439 join you. 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:54.639 Hi. 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:55.920 I'm Phil Broughton again. 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:57.639 The Baltender health physicist. 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.680 So every time I come here a charge for getting 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.840 one of my drinks. As a journalist is an attendee 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.080 of cs IS, you need to tell me if you've 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.480 seen something dangerous, something that scared you, something that left 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:17.360 you with discomfort such that you think an illegality might 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:22.240 be happening. I'm I'm not going to say proud, but 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.439 I'm shocked to say nothing on the floor of CEES 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.879 is concerned someone enough to tell me such that I 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.639 needed to call the fire marshal to get an exhibitor 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:39.560 removed or at least their exhibit shut down. So I 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.760 don't angratulations, congratulations, CEA. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:44.360 We did it, We did it. 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.880 Finally we've perched through and actually there is something in 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:48.399 line with this. 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:49.200 I want to say. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.800 It did feel like going down to Eureka Park, which 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:54.720 is the the nether Regions. 0:22:58.200 --> 0:22:59.120 They put dangerous things. 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:00.800 It wasn't as bad this year, but there have been 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:02.840 years where it just smelled like feet. 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:09.119 Yes, crazy and no games. Journalists listening, all twelve of 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.320 you think of kenty A Hall during E three. 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:13.560 I get that reference. 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.439 Yeah, it's like a place where you'd go and if 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:17.280 you had a journalist badge on, you'd have to run. 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:18.879 I can smell this comment. 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.560 Yeah, ky Kenty is fucked up, but yeah, so I 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:25.960 really just felt like Eureka Park is usually like the 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.919 place where you go to see the people working on 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:29.320 multiple stages of fraud. 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:32.560 Most of that's where the MRI was that year that 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.240 shouldn't have been on the floor. Yeah, that's it been. 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.280 Now it's all people like at the earliest stages of 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.040 fraud where it's not as fun. 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:43.040 Materials that anyone told me about ship. 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:47.040 They barely brought anything that existed. Yes, turn the microrae. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.600 Okay, I'm gonna google big more drinks now have fun. 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:51.719 Thank you fail before you go, I'm just gonna say 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.800 that I mostly came here to see you, So. 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.280 I will say the Eurka Park two. You do sometimes 0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:59.560 go and meet like two guys in a folding table, 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:01.560 and then like next year, all of a sudden they 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.399 have some massive thing, and then the next year like 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:08.399 they've like taken over like the biggest company in their space, 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:10.399 Like the year that you you discovered them as two 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.000 guys in a folding and that there's something interesting about that. 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.080 That was the bit that so I it's funny that 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:20.320 you mentioned dankness. Fun Well, everything that I had been 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:22.760 sort of like not just ed either. Like I go 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.600 on Tuesdays, I do like a little standing bit with 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:30.080 a ESPN radio station in Las Vegas, and I mentioned 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:31.680 that I was going to be at the Consumer Electronic Show, 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:33.159 and they mentioned that it was going to be like 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.560 sweaty and wet. Everybody is always using words having to 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:39.560 do a dampness. 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.240 To describe this shit a very dry place. 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.200 It's a very and in a very dry place, indeed, 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:45.840 And so the idea that there's like a sub basement, 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.880 that's basically just it's a part of it's a part 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.440 of the expo where the ceilings are too low. 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:55.320 Yeah, like basically like most of the action in the 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.120 movie Aliens is what I'm imagining. I'm like, you're kind 0:24:58.119 --> 0:24:59.800 of walking around line something comes up out of the 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.080 floor or and spits acid in your face or whatever. 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:03.040 But see that's the thing. 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.239 Though it's better than it used to be. Though you 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.159 weren't here during the indieg go. 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:10.760 Well, I was expecting that when it was in the 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:12.919 Eurica Parker was in the sands, because it used to. 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:13.360 I have to. 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:18.320 It's in the same place, but it was basically every 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:20.399 company was crowdfunded and the ship. 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:22.040 People would say, so. 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.440 Is Eureka Park like the key ball. 0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:28.440 It's just unfiltered stuff. 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:28.480 All right. 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:34.479 I've had demos with companies that later like graduated to 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:37.159 to Eureka Park. So I don't know what that. 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:39.399 Made more money? 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:41.040 Where were you before? 0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:48.960 Also outside ye, like we're outside the cromwell, like outside 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:49.680 of the scrap. 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:53.320 I mean, like there's a lot of big fraud, Like 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:54.760 a lot of fraud, right, Like getting a lot of 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:57.520 money to do fraud is actually not that hard? 0:25:56.920 --> 0:25:57.800 Is so? 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.560 Actually in the big like you know Northall and stuff too. 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:02.560 I mean there's been plenty of companies these In fact, 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:05.080 a lot of times during certain periods of like you know, 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.600 big h trends and investing in you know, whether it's 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:10.040 like light ar or this or you know, some of 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.359 these other specific technologies, you would see sort of certain 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:15.280 names in the space would have these huge things and 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.320 you know, right the point of this is to market 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:20.119 We're here, we're this big deal. But like if you 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:22.439 follow the space, you know, like the companies that invest 0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:24.680 in that stuff are the ones that don't have the 0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:27.240 good right, Like a lot of times, not not exclusively, 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:29.399 but a lot of times the biggest splashiest booth in 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:32.000 the biggest in the big thing is is where the 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.000 fraud is, and sometimes the smaller thing in the in 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.240 the kind of jumble of startups is actually they. 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:40.920 Totally Because that's like, again from my sort of understanding 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:42.879 of this as somebody who's interested in the space but 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.560 not covering it or not like he doesn't have a 0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.760 professional interest. I'm just kind of like fascinated by everything 0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:49.679 that's kind of scammy scusy in our culture. 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:53.119 But this is the thing, it's so emblematic of this 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:55.480 industry that which like, yeah, no, the big frauds are 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:55.960 the ones. 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:59.600 With the right the big scam, but it's like that 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:03.360 there have so many lies here, and that's what I 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:04.119 think what it is. 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.159 I think this is why by Saturday, I'm going to 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.240 be like I'm just gonna wake up in the joke 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:08.760 and make up. 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:11.840 Is because I've never talked. 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.040 About CEES this much, and I realized that I say 0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.960 this putting on an actual like pop up radio show 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.600 during ces that that would be inevitable talking about it. 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:21.359 I'm like joke offying again. 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:24.840 Jared and I talk about the joker love for many reasons, 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:27.560 but like I thought, I had fully become the joker. 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:30.199 But now just like as I. 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:33.040 Fresh new CS people, they have the exact same and 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:36.679 it's just like this place is just very strange. 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:38.840 Well but it's strange. But what I was saying is 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:43.480 I expected because I've only been to the we're recording 0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:48.560 in the Venetian, like the big open exhibition space in 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:50.679 the Venetian, right, but I haven't been to the Convention 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:52.520 Center yet. I got in here today at like three pm. 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:56.040 So what I saw I expected to go down there 0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:58.760 and it was just gonna be carnage. It was just 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:01.919 going to be like a suit soaker that yells at 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:05.719 you in the voice of Sir Peter O'Toole has an 0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:09.679 ai aspects for some reason, you know. And what it 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:12.440 was instead was like there were like you were saying 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.639 it that there's like people down there there, there's like 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.119 a dog door that like, yeah, Jesse and I were 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:19.439 very taken by, and the people were like, yeah, we 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:21.199 were here last year, and like we'd been you know, 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:22.879 we'd set up this thing and if you hit it 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.040 with a sledgehammer once it got all screwed up. So 0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:26.919 like we went back and we changed the metal and 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:29.159 now we've had. You know, it's like six hundred and 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.199 fifty blows from this, Like you pull a rope and 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.960 a sledgehammer swings into the dorm. We haven't even dented it. 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.200 It's like a good product if I had a dog 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.760 and a house, and I have neither of those things, 0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:41.280 but if I had both, I'd be like, well, you 0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:43.560 know what, like this might be worth three hundred and 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.040 ninety nine dollars, And I didn't expect to see a 0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:47.240 single thing like that. 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.160 But the great paradox of CS is that it's kind 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:55.680 of it's like a place to get cynical, but yeah jokerfried, Yeah, 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:58.920 but also like d jokerfried at the same time. Yeah, 0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:01.600 it like pulls your brain in these two opposing directions 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:03.760 because there is a lot of that, and then there's 0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.760 also like the stuff that like reminds you why you 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:09.520 like technology in the first place, and it's hard to balance. 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.080 Yes, that was like pulling for a lot of the people, 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:13.680 not all of them, the ones that when we were 0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:16.440 talking about, like the things that you saw that like 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:18.960 fucked you up or made you want to like ask 0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:22.000 Phil to call the you know, yeah, there is one 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:25.000 that Edward flagged. I just saw he had posted it earlier. 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:29.600 That was like a germ detection thing with very strange vibes. 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:31.560 Was this the pass? 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.520 Oh yeah, so chosen by God, perfected by science or 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:36.120 something like that. 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:37.040 Yeah, that's that's me. 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.840 So, yeah, that's all. Hey, you know what, Yeah, it's 0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:40.320 all of us. 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:43.520 But before we go any further, we're now going to 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:45.560 do an ad break. So, David, where can people find you? 0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:46.400 Uh? 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:50.040 Defector dot COM's the website. The distraction is the podcast 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.400 I do with Defector, and then I do a podcast 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:55.760 about a Hallmark movies that's Christmas Town that is not 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:59.120 affiliated with any other website because it's about Hallmark movies. Okay, 0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:02.040 is there are linked they could go for those, I'll 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:03.600 put them in there. Well, yeah, Defector dot com is 0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:05.280 the thing. It's Christmas Town. It's like, I don't know, 0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:07.840 like do that look it up podcast or something. Yeah, 0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:09.760 mister need By, where can people find you? 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:13.040 Neederm dot io on the World Wide Web and blue 0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:17.600 Sky and uh autonoast dot com. The autonoast is my podcast. 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:20.200 Mister Newman, I write for a bunch of websites, but 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:23.840 you should sign up for my newsletters at Jarednewman dot com. 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.440 Slash newsletters and now if you need to sign up 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:30.480 for something else and you wish to help this show continue, 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.240 if you, and I know many of you, pray for 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:38.040 my me to fall victim to falling pianos in various 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.400 carnage situations in which I suffer greatly, which you would love. 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:43.760 Of course, if you don't, and if you love me dearly, 0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:46.880 you'll follow this by listening to the ad more intently 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:58.240 than you evident anything in your life. 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.200 And we're back, So I want to get back to 0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:05.479 something we were talking about earlier. Which is the reason 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.480 that CS grinds you down and then you have a 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:11.000 new joivocation and get your powers back. Is because if 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:13.720 you're only here, the ideal amount to be here is 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.680 like three or four days. And I don't mean this 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.160 for general Vegas. I mean specifically for CES, because you 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.440 get to see the show thought enough that you're like, 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:23.280 I have a full concept of this, I couldn't have 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:26.760 missed anything. You can then come to an opinion, and 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.120 then you meet the other people who are there too long, 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.040 the other people who didn't live in two days, and 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.520 you get a kind of like a trauma bonding experience, 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:36.240 which is what this podcast is going to be for 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:37.080 the next few days. 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:39.160 By the way, everyone who's left is just like, I 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:41.360 just want to see my family again. 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:45.640 And David, you're going to get you're arriving at CS 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:47.080 during this period. 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:49.360 Yeah, So this is what I want to ask, just 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:52.080 again from the perspective to bring, to bring an idiot's 0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:54.840 perspective to bear. Well, I'm here, Well I know, but 0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:56.840 I mean this is a different it's more of an 0:31:56.840 --> 0:32:01.000 East Coast flavor. Uh, Like, who are these people that 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:02.400 you're talking about? Who's staying here? 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:03.240 So what it is? 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.840 And tomorrow it's like the general public income in right. 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:11.080 I Actually I don't know either. It's probably worth clarifying that. 0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:12.840 Like we're at the point of the show because it 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:14.800 open on Tuesday. Today's Wednesday. 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:15.640 But people will hear it. 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:18.520 So when you go to Booth's tomorrow and talk to people, 0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:20.400 they're all gonna hate you. 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:21.960 Yeah, because they've been here. 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:23.640 They've been here, they don't want to be here anymore, 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:25.120 and you're gonna be asking them like a lot of 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.320 questions about their products and stuff and they're not gonna 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:27.560 like that. 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:30.360 No, you get like the unvarnished booth experience. You get 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:32.880 it big from Samsung coach like I don't care. 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:36.440 Also, I think tomorrow you do get the general public. 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.080 Is it really they allowed that? 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:39.720 Yeah, so it's two days. I think of sort of 0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.200 media and sort of controlled access and then and then 0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:44.800 it opens up to the public and then you get 0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:46.880 to see the technology fans. 0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:48.320 Yeah, the people who want to be. 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.360 Is fans of technology and a lot of. 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:56.000 Just technology as a concept, like anything. 0:32:57.680 --> 0:32:58.040 Exactly. 0:32:58.040 --> 0:32:59.920 That's what I'm gonna say. Just like I love robots, 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:00.680 all kinds of. 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:05.360 Robots' cool if only that was what's the Yeah, well 0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:07.240 they're like the version of robots here is just being 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.160 like it's the thing that it mows your lawn and 0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:10.280 it also cleans. 0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:14.200 Your seven thousand dollars, right, Yes, But so this is 0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:16.240 the bit that I'm kind of because this felt like 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:18.600 everyone I saw today and then also everyone I saw 0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:21.360 on the street when I was walking around, like they 0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:24.520 just leave the lanyard on. Yeah, Like it's not a 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:26.640 thing where I mean, it's like no one wants to 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:27.840 be I guess maybe they don't want to send the 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:30.239 message like I'm here to party. They're like, no, I'm 0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:30.640 here to. 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:32.560 Yes, so they want to send the message to the 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:33.720 actual conference, right. 0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:37.080 I'm here, no fun please. 0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:38.680 I do like that with the. 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:41.160 Lanyard and then the people with the big plastic cups. Yeah, 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:43.160 sort of like that contrast is beautiful thing. 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:45.240 Yeah, And so the idea of those people being together, 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:47.200 that there's going to be like someone that's got like 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:49.920 a thing on that's just like you know, like Shensen 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.040 Robotic corps. And then there's also just another guy that's 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:57.520 wearing like a t bow Broncos jersey. 0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:01.560 But what's great is you are right describing what happens tomorrow, 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:05.720 which isick. Thursday is the day when Vegas and CS 0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:08.279 truly can buy because it's the general public, but it's 0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:11.520 also the people that come to Vegas on Thursdays, and 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.800 they are a rich tapestry of people. They are beautiful creation. 0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:19.160 Sadly the football season is over because had this happened, 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:21.120 have we had like the Chargers Raiders game. 0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:23.480 You've got like a team and I said, this is 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:24.120 a Raiders fan. 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:25.919 I don't know if there are Raiders fans who listen 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:30.839 to this podcast, but it gets better for other teams now. 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:35.120 I wish the Raiders fans and the various transient fan 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:37.520 bases that come in greater number than Raiders fans here. 0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:40.200 I wish they'd have met, but really just people coming 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.080 to Vegas in like the first working week of January, 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:45.840 meeting with the people made to come here due to 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:49.200 job is. It's going to be great. You're going to 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:52.959 see a very special kind of Vegas. I can't wait 0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:53.279 to hear. 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:55.680 I had a nice experience of just kind of like 0:34:56.160 --> 0:35:00.839 drifting by the sports book earlier today and it's still yeah, 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:02.719 just the one because I was, you know, wandering around 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:04.759 the floor. There's a lot of you know, this is 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:08.840 a again hadn't eaten very much. There's like a bunch 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.920 of really name brand Italian restaurants in this hotel. Unfortunately, 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:15.840 there's also eighty thousand people attending this conference, so it 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.200 wasn't like you can't walk into Jelina and be like, 0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:20.359 I'd love to eat at the bar. Like you can 0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:21.960 tell them that and they'll be like, that's great. A 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:23.919 lot of people would love to eat it. So yeah, 0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:27.759 but the uh, the sports book area was like that 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:31.279 felt like a Cees free zone because the only things 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.200 that you can watch right now are like it's Big 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.919 Ten Conference play basketball. It's like the USC and Maryland. Yeah. 0:35:38.000 --> 0:35:41.440 I also there's not a single person going to the 0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:45.239 Consumer Electronics show who can do anything to any of 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:46.799 the guys in the sports book who are there. 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:50.480 Specific like the day Traders. The ones were like okay 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:53.960 and say Men's spot volleyball, I've got my my mortgage 0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:56.120 payment for this month. This one. You come and talk 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:58.399 to him about the computer, he will punch through. He'll 0:35:58.440 --> 0:35:59.879 do a fist in the North Star thing. 0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:04.000 Actually, a robot that cleans your pool, doesn't that beat all? Unfortunately, 0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:08.000 if Bowling Green doesn't score seventy one points in this 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:09.760 Ohio Valley Conference. 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:13.200 Game, is it really possible for a person to really 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.800 fully be both a sportsman and a technology fan. I 0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:17.080 feel like yes, at the end of the day, I 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:19.160 am that. Yeah, I love basic you identify as the 0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:20.160 time Baseball. 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:23.759 I'm doing a baseball prospectives column about the Mets. You 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:25.919 don't know really, Yeah, yeah, I probably should have told 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.080 you getting placed in New York. 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:28.839 Anyway, we need to talk. 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.840 Yeah, I know that's okay, cooler, but no, it is 0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:35.560 possible because they actually both have some similarities. Obsession with 0:36:35.640 --> 0:36:39.719 weird numbers, obsession with weird guys, and in general, a 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.720 complete lack of progress, despite it seeming like there should 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:43.879 be one, right, the. 0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:47.000 More sophisticated it gets. Somehow, also the dumber and worse 0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:49.080 it gets. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:53.680 But also the problem is they start in very different neighborhoods. 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:57.000 It's very rare that someone who's a big tech person 0:36:58.000 --> 0:37:01.239 and you start that usually because you haven't got any 0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:04.680 other options. And then there's the sports people who usually 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:06.520 get into that because they can move at speed or 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:09.720 do things with their hands. Those those are two different points. 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.680 I only came there because I'm magnificent, but is a 0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:17.000 very different thing. Nevertheless, one of the reasons I brought 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.439 David Hay was I believe it's a similars. I think 0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.480 the skill set for sports jeneraism applies very well to 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:23.440 tech for that reason. 0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:26.040 Well, certainly it depends on what kind of version, because 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:27.680 I think that's an interesting question of like can you 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:31.480 be a fan of both? And I think that it's 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:33.480 I am a sports fan, you know, I don't know 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:35.160 that I would say that I'm like a technology fan, 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:37.960 but I am. I find both of them interesting in 0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:39.880 the same sort of ways because they all sort of 0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:45.080 like point back to the same human aspirations and then 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:48.080 also like frailties, bloopers, yeah, so on and so forth. 0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:50.600 But being interested in something and being a fan to 0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:53.320 the extent that that is the defining characteristic of your personality. 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:55.440 Oh okay, these are different. 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:56.840 And I think that's the bit that I wanted to 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.000 kind of like try to figure out, because I think 0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:01.239 there's people that are fans of technology. 0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:04.879 Yeah, to the show tomorrow and people you will see them, 0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:07.240 That's what you will hear the things that they say, 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:09.680 and they're not the things that normal people say. 0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:11.719 That's something that I've been kind of like struggling with 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:16.680 again from my like you know, everybody that is online 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:18.600 or that reads too much or you know, cares too 0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:21.520 much about too many stupid things or whatever, Like, I 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:25.200 have had to think about technology a lot like everybody else. 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:27.799 And yet like, the thing that was interesting to me 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:32.520 about the like the Adrian Dittman saga for instance, is 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:34.799 that there I know that there are people that are 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:37.960 like not just you know that they think that Elon 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.319 Musk is a cool guy, or they like that he's 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:45.880 you know, dedicated to finally telling the truth about minorities. 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:50.040 But I think that there's also something to do it 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.880 where there's people that like are fans of him the 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:56.200 way that like people yelling like it's in the hole 0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:58.520 when like Tiger Woods hits the ball, like people that 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:00.880 are fans at that level just but they basically are 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:05.960 like they've removed a lot of the higher level stuff 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:07.360 from their brain and their just cavemen. 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:10.200 Just explain the Adrian Dittman thing. If you don't know, 0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:10.840 don't do it. 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:11.279 There is. 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:17.319 There is a guy who sounds just like Elon Musk 0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:19.800 and appears to have all his beliefs and talk exactly 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:22.799 like and then occasionally say he is Elon Musk, who 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.960 is not Elon Musk. He is potentially a weird, strangely 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:30.240 jacked German Man. And this account is called Adrian Ditman. 0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:34.400 And I don't even know what to believe anymore, But 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:37.799 nevertheless it appears that it's just a strange man. Yeah, 0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:41.319 it's still like a Wallowigi situation. Apparently Walluigi is not 0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.319 actually like related to Warrio, Like he's just a weird 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:45.280 guy that met Warrio. 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:49.560 Again, I'm not saying Warrio correctly. Someone's gonna fucking say that. 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:51.560 And I have to deal with is. 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:54.960 A related thing though, what you're talking about about Tesla fan, right, 0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:56.839 So I feel like a lot of people who are 0:39:57.400 --> 0:39:59.600 recently coming to this Elon Musk is a bad guy 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.359 kind of coming in with the sort of political, you know, 0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:06.279 approach to it. What you've missed was many many, many 0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:12.839 years of this incredible online movement and like, I follow 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:16.880 it very close to because I had never seen anything 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.240 like it in cars, Like, it's just people are passionate 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:21.360 about cars. People like when the bailout was happening, I 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:22.880 was sort of my first story, and people would be like, 0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:25.520 you hate General Motors, and you know, we're General Motors family, 0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:27.680 and like there was some of that stuff, but this 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:31.440 was totally different because you know, it was the seed 0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:34.040 of the personal cult of Elon Musk. But then there 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:38.000 were all of these sorts of like techno ideological, sort 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:42.880 of neo modernist, you know, kind of ideology that was 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.520 just sort of all wrapped into it. And what was 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:48.720 interesting is is that it really pulled together people from 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.640 from both sides of that was resually interesting to me, 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.399 both sides of the of the sort of cultural war 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:56.839 and sort of partisan divide in the country could find 0:40:56.880 --> 0:40:59.040 things about that that they liked. And it wasn't until 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.600 Elon Musk decided I need to pick one side or 0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:03.680 the other that all of a sudden, people were like, 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:05.759 holy shit and so like. So if you got to 0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:08.719 like Tesla subreddits for example, now like yeah, no, I 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.640 know what normal person would, but you don't. You don't 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:13.839 see you don't see this whole time religion anymore. The 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.040 only place to really see it online is the SpaceX ones. 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:20.240 The space people are kind of like insular and they 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:23.200 they don't like politics, don't touch them, like, they just ignore. 0:41:23.200 --> 0:41:26.040 It doesn't matter to them. But with the Tesla one, 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:29.120 we've just exited this really fascinating period where you know, 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.040 this cult and again it's not just a cult. It 0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:34.480 was a stock pumping thing and there's all the damage. 0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:36.800 I won't get into all the details of it, but 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:38.720 but the important thing was, like there was this moment 0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:42.839 where people woke up and realized, wait, holy holy shit, 0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:44.800 Like I have a trans kid, and I just supported 0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:46.560 like one of the biggest trans people, like not just 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.440 supported went online every single day, found anybody making any 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:53.960 criticisms of Tesla and and spending all day attacking them, 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:57.880 Like I endured like years and years and years of justice, 0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:00.720 like relentless, and like they would take shifts come in waves, 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:02.800 and a new guy would decide this was gonna be 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:05.399 his thing, and he'd build his little crew and and 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.080 go out wrecking. Like a whole lot of stuff happened online, 0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:11.279 and you know, people shouldn't have paid attention to it, 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.359 but it's really important context because it shows that like 0:42:14.840 --> 0:42:18.080 the dynamics that people can point to as being bad 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.279 in a partisan sense, they they fall prey to them 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.000 when you strip away that partisan framework that allows you, 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.000 that gives you that sort of like moral you know, compass. 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:29.320 But the thing I've noticed about these kind of techno 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:32.480 enthusiasts is they don't seem to enjoy the computer. 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:34.359 They don't like the computer. 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:36.200 So they don't have any joy of even a faster 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:37.799 phone or a new graphics card. 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:40.280 These This is actually a problem I have with sech 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:42.719 what's the the appeal? Then? 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:43.960 Is it a stock price thing? 0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:46.879 It is? I think what it is is it's like thing, 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:47.600 it's like the game. 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:50.440 That's another type of sports fandom too, is basically GM 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.319 stand stuff. I think it's where you're like excited when 0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:54.879 your team gets under the salary cap. 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:56.719 Wait, but is there a no No. 0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:59.080 I think I think what it is is the it's 0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:02.840 an identity thing. It's when gamergain and things of that 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.040 nature happened. What I know, and I've been a gamer since. 0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:09.080 I'm like way too yet, like ten, and I love gaming. 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:12.160 I fucking I in my darkest times, I play like 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:14.040 Hades or something. I just put a few hours and 0:43:14.080 --> 0:43:15.960 I genuinely feel better, like engaging in my mind. It 0:43:16.000 --> 0:43:17.800 makes me feel some industry. I think a lot of 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:20.080 people listening to this feel the same way about games. 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:21.799 And then there are people who were just like, well, 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:25.160 gaming was my fucking thing, and now the womans are 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:27.960 in it, and now the wokeness is in it because 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.160 they don't really give a shit about the actual gaming. 0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.640 It's just an identity thing for them. It's just this 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:35.280 is a thing that made me special, and now someone else. 0:43:35.120 --> 0:43:35.719 Is weighing in. 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:39.279 I don't really believe in anything, ye, And so there 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:41.319 are people who are test the stands who I just 0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:44.000 think are just like, wow, it's my it's a sports team. 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:47.120 It's I don't even watch the games. I go on 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:49.759 ESPN and I click on the box score, and then 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:51.520 I actually there's a great tweet about this where it's 0:43:51.560 --> 0:43:53.279 just like going on ESPN and looking at the box 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:55.799 score and arguing with people, which is funny. But I 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:57.680 think these people are like, well, Elon Musk is the 0:43:57.760 --> 0:43:59.799 kind of guy I want to feel. I want to 0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:02.279 be like that guy. I want to stand form like 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:04.799 nothing but be very angry and rich all the time 0:44:04.840 --> 0:44:08.800 and believe in nothing. Because Elon Musk seems completely fucking joyless. 0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:11.560 This is a half formed thought and it may be bad, 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:12.799 but this. 0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:13.920 Never stunt may make. 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:18.480 So I guess you know, you would think like fandom 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.000 of a a tech company. You're an Apple fan boy 0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:26.560 or Tesla fan boy, right h while yeah, analogous to 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:32.560 UH sports team and fanboyism. But then there's Elon Musk 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:36.120 fanboyism or Steve jobs fist. That's a person. Is there 0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:38.040 an equivalent to that in sports? 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:38.200 Like? 0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:40.560 Are people fanboying out over a person? 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:42.919 Yeah? I mean to a certain extent, although I think 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:45.879 that it depends. I mean I think that like there's 0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:48.520 individual sports, Yes, there are people that like I mean, 0:44:48.560 --> 0:44:50.319 one of the things that I remember being struck by 0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:53.799 when we go to the US Open most summers, when 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:55.479 we can figure out how to do it when Roger 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:57.600 Federer was still playing that there's like a hat that 0:44:57.640 --> 0:44:59.279 you can wear that just has r F on it, 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:01.320 like in an inner line fucking like the Dodgers logo. 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:03.759 And they're just like people that they're basically wearing like 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.640 a Roger Federer, like just Roger Federer pajamas to the 0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:10.359 Roger Federer match, or he's not even playing, but they're 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:13.160 wearing their Roger Federer hat because they just that's when 0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:14.800 they think of tennis, they think of Roger Federer. 0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:16.960 It's like I saw a guy on a Cowboys jersey 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:20.000 at a ratous game. Yeah, Cowboys were not playing. 0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:22.760 Yes, And that is I mean, that's a classic Cowboys 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:24.400 fan move too, where it's just sort of well, I 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:27.840 mean not in the sense they just yeah, you're correct 0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:30.759 in assessing that as being like a fucked up thing 0:45:30.840 --> 0:45:32.960 to do, but it is also yeah, but it is 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:34.920 also it's Cowboys fan stuff. But I think that that's 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:38.359 an interesting distinction because the idea of being like, there's 0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.440 all these different ways to be stupid about sports, right 0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.439 that there's like and a lot of it does sort 0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.680 of have its own political valence, even if it doesn't 0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:49.440 fully land like you know that. One of the things 0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:51.640 I've been thinking about this because the college football playoffs 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.719 are going on that uh, the SEC Conference, which you 0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:58.880 don't know, like is in the southeast of the United States, 0:45:58.880 --> 0:46:03.920 so it's like kind of these like super red states 0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:05.960 with a college football is a big part of their identity. 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:08.960 Oftentimes these are states that don't have professional teams in them, 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:12.640 and it was a thing for a while. Less the 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:14.960 case this year because the SEC weirdly had a super 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:17.320 shit year and is basically like done for the college 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:23.520 football season, where if like if Alabama was beating Illinois, 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.720 fans would not and Alabama fans were there, they would 0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:31.280 not necessarily do a Bama related chant, they would chant SEC, 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:35.560 which is basically like their way of being like, you're 0:46:35.600 --> 0:46:37.719 getting your asses kicked right now by a state that 0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:42.680 is like, you know, Republican trifecta in the legislature, like 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.239 Tommy Tarberville is our senator. Like that's the bit that 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:48.040 I feel like there is like an identity politics aspect 0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:49.520 of it where they're lording it over it like and 0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:50.840 it is a regional thing. 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:54.240 Like red versus blue, like tech company. 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:58.160 Oh that's a good one. Now it's red versus daka red. 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:01.160 I think no, that was a point when I think 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:03.279 people thought Apple was the nice one, and they are 0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:05.920 by comparison now, which is not a good thing. I 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:09.040 think Facebook is the one that weirdly people thought was 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.200 blue but was redder than all of them combined. 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:12.479 Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a question. 0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.760 Google Google, Google was the nice one for a while. 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:17.480 They did the it gets better thing, and now they 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:18.319 do it gets worse. 0:47:18.400 --> 0:47:21.040 And I gather they were also like all in their way, 0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:23.879 like culturally like it was like they were good employers, 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:25.400 they were inclusive. 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:30.000 And whatever, and it really is were ye think pretending? 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:33.719 I mean I think so. So fandom it gives you 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.920 a sort of like personality prosthetic right then sense of 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:39.080 a sense of community, and I think I think those 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:42.560 are like universal across most fandoms. I think what tech 0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:47.000 offered so and I just use Tesla as the example 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.400 of that, and it may not be as broadly, you know, 0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:54.040 but what it gave, what it added to that that 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:59.040 basic fandom package was two things. There is, there was 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:04.399 a growing social capital to be gained from being someone 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:06.520 who could speak confidently about like this is what the 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:08.440 future is going to be and like Elon Musk gives 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:10.759 the patron saint of that right, He's shown how much 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:16.200 power just doing that even yeah, and people realized all 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:18.400 they had to do was copy, just repeat what he 0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:20.439 said and say it with the same confidence. And people 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:22.600 be like, whoa, this guy knows what he's talking about. 0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:24.879 And and you know, Elon must says so, and and 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:26.719 you get a couple of other little fastil arguments to 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:28.560 go a wrong with that. The third thing and this 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:32.000 I'm curious if this is maybe where these things are 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:35.399 converging that The other thing is is the stock thing 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:38.440 right where you could buy the stock and then now 0:48:38.480 --> 0:48:42.160 you have financial incentive to go out and proselytize and 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:45.800 attack people critics, pump the thing, you know, repeat the narrative. 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:48.799 And I wonder if gambling and like the rise of 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.520 gambling is is maybe starting to add that into the sports. 0:48:52.680 --> 0:48:54.640 I think there's an aspect of that. I think the 0:48:54.680 --> 0:48:57.520 bit that is interesting to me about when you were 0:48:57.520 --> 0:49:01.200 talking about how like once you are a tesla like stockholder, 0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:04.520 that like the idea that that is functionally now like 0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:08.040 a meme stock with Elon as the load bearing meme 0:49:08.120 --> 0:49:09.480 at the center of it. And the fact that the 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:13.439 cars are you know, decreasing in quality and maybe also 0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:16.840 decreasing in popularity and sales. Yeah, kind of doesn't matter 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:19.080 that Like if the stock stays high, you're doing all right. 0:49:19.080 --> 0:49:23.000 But in that case, it's like you're actually in some ways, 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:26.080 like when you're going out there and you know, spending 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:29.000 your leisure time being a fucking online shooter for Elon Musk, 0:49:29.160 --> 0:49:31.279 you're also advocating for yourself in some ways, like that's 0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:32.480 your portfolios. 0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:35.319 In the In the really early days of what we 0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:37.880 were talking about this Tesla online sort of phenomenon, there 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:40.360 was really one website, the forum, an old school you 0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:42.360 know forum that we all know and love that was 0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:44.279 really so it was the main time Tesla Motor Club 0:49:44.360 --> 0:49:45.799 and it was like kind of the main one. There 0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:48.120 was a subreddit, but started out really small. This was 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:50.719 the place, and a lot of the website, you know, 0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:53.600 they were like talk about the company, you talk about Elon, 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:55.880 you know, and then as cars came out, you know, 0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:58.560 so you know, and and and the ownership was sort 0:49:58.600 --> 0:50:01.799 of the main part of the thing of the site. 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:03.560 At least if you look at, you know, the list 0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:05.160 of all the sub forums and so people were on 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:08.360 there and they wanted an open exchange of information because 0:50:08.480 --> 0:50:09.920 they had problems with their cars and they want to 0:50:10.000 --> 0:50:11.840 understand them and what the fix was and what Tesla 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:15.600 was doing about them. And that was the main activity 0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:18.880 of this community. It was helping each other out and 0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:19.759 as consumers. 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:20.000 Ye. 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:22.799 Now there was another a sub form of this that 0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:26.960 was the Tesla Investors sub forum, and that was it 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:29.040 looked small, it looked like one little thing, but you 0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:31.680 went there and it was so so so active and 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:35.880 it had its own radicalizing internally like radicalizing culture. And 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:39.520 then there was this key point where I and others 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:42.799 started to write stories based on the the other part 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:45.360 of the where it's owners wanting this free exchange of 0:50:45.400 --> 0:50:47.799 information and saying, we have this problem, Tesla's not really 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:48.520 dealing with it. 0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:52.000 And did that bring them into conflict with the investors 0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:53.920 where they were like, can you just keep that in house? 0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:57.479 Exactly what happened there? And it's this fascinating thing because 0:50:57.520 --> 0:51:01.399 Tesla became this fandom that bridged not just like sort 0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:04.920 of political partisan, but like on a fundamental level, the 0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:09.759 divide between capital, like between between management and consumer. Right, 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.000 as a consumer, you want certain things like if you're 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:13.600 a fan of you want the product to be good. 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.279 You want certain things. As an investor, you want other things. Right, 0:51:16.280 --> 0:51:18.279 you want the quality be as low as possible and 0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:20.279 the marg high, and that comes at the expense of. 0:51:20.280 --> 0:51:22.440 The keep scessarily. Mind if the product is good, but 0:51:22.480 --> 0:51:25.040 it's not as important to you as the others. 0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:28.800 So these two parts of the relationship of any company 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:32.520 came into came to conflict because it had to be 0:51:32.560 --> 0:51:36.239 one community like the the and capital one. I think 0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:39.200 it's a really interesting thing and this is why Tesla became. 0:51:39.480 --> 0:51:41.160 It went from a company. Is one of the reasons 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:43.440 that it went from being a company that was sort 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:46.600 of rooted in really trying to surprise and delight customer, 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:49.200 Like that was a really fundamental thing. Over time, you've 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:53.960 seen the cynical stock being part of it has just 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.160 completely consumed and like people who are like who were 0:51:57.200 --> 0:51:59.160 fans of the company are like, wait, where is the 0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:01.240 stuff that I was a fan of? And it's because 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:04.319 that relationship was they want in capital one and the 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:05.040 and the consumer lot. 0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:07.000 So this is why sorry, so this is so, this 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:09.120 is why you have people who's like cars have blown 0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:10.960 up and then they do the interview and they're like, 0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:12.160 I still love Elon Mustok. 0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:14.000 That's exactly right. 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:16.279 That all goes back to that, and that's where they 0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:17.960 diverge from sports fans. 0:52:17.719 --> 0:52:19.719 Well to a certain extent though, because I think that 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:22.440 that still is the kind of thing where there's like 0:52:22.520 --> 0:52:24.640 an element of that where like there's different ways to 0:52:24.680 --> 0:52:26.319 be a fan of a team, right, but that I 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:28.160 think that there is this aspect of it. It's like 0:52:28.600 --> 0:52:32.799 Auburn loses by five touchdowns to Florida Ryan and it's 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.000 like you want to fire the coach, but at the 0:52:35.040 --> 0:52:38.000 same time, you're not like I'm giving up like war Eagle, 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:39.719 no more like no. It's the sort of thing where 0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:42.759 like that's when you do the like the super psychotic 0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:44.719 fan stuff where it's like, well, now I'm going to 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:46.080 poison some plants something. 0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:48.360 Or like the Kobe Bryant like I'm willing to overlook 0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:48.840 some stuff. 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:52.960 Yes, exactly. Can I say one bit so too, because 0:52:53.600 --> 0:52:55.640 you made an interesting point about the gambling aspect of 0:52:55.680 --> 0:52:58.399 it that I wanted to speak on because I think 0:52:58.440 --> 0:53:02.080 that that has but both of you were talking about it, 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:05.319 I guess, but the the idea of like gambling as 0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:08.240 a type of fandom, I think is like way more. 0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:14.560 There's like a way for if you're a fan of 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:18.160 a team, right, Like you're giving some bit of your 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:21.200 leisure time as a person to this thing that you 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:24.319 can control. It's not a smart decision. Nobody does it 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:25.879 because it's smart. You know, you do it because it's 0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:27.319 fun and because it's like kind of like a way 0:53:27.360 --> 0:53:31.040 to fill other spots in your life that might otherwise 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:33.640 be quiet with noise, which is reasonable, like what are 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:35.719 what are any of us doing? Who is listening to this? 0:53:35.760 --> 0:53:38.319 That is not doing that? But there is also this 0:53:38.400 --> 0:53:41.800 other part of it where it's like it's an emotional commitment. 0:53:41.880 --> 0:53:44.919 It's like it's a thing about caring. And I think 0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:49.759 that gambling to me feels more like for one thing, 0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:53.200 you are the people that are doing that. I think 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:55.560 it is more of like what you were talking about 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:59.160 in terms of the like the Tesla Investors part of 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:02.200 the forum where it is basically like it and everyone 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:05.560 that gambles on sports pretty much everybody loses. The people 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:07.279 that are professionals, the people that are down in the 0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:11.359 sports book, like if they're really, really, really good, they 0:54:11.400 --> 0:54:14.280 still lose forty six percent of the time. Or whatever, 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:17.680 you know, and the people that are just flushing three 0:54:17.760 --> 0:54:21.919 hundred dollars down the draft kings app every Sunday are 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:24.719 not good at it, but they're like that aspect of 0:54:24.760 --> 0:54:27.480 it is not It's the opposite of fandom to me. 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:30.000 Of course, if you're ESPN or the or your NFL, 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:33.760 you know, executives, their money spends the same. It doesn't 0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:36.440 really matter if they're watching. They're watching. If they care, 0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:38.480 they care, like and you know, the money that you're 0:54:38.480 --> 0:54:40.880 getting from your partnerships with draft kings and stuff that 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:43.839 also spends the same. But I think it's the opposite 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:47.400 of fandom in like in an emotional sense that it 0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:51.120 is like it's not just transactional, but that it is 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:54.439 sort of taking all of the stuff that you would 0:54:54.480 --> 0:54:58.640 have cared about in this sort of more communal way 0:54:59.080 --> 0:55:03.160 and making it about yourself, your experience of it, and 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:05.400 that like and that like goes and that you know, 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:08.920 I think there's a whole sort of like newish thread 0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:11.560 of that in the culture that has been enabled by technology, 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:13.080 not just in terms of being able to gamble on 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:16.640 your phone, but that's to me, that's cryptocurrency speculation. It's 0:55:16.640 --> 0:55:17.800 the same adset. 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:19.919 I think they all come back to a fundamental point, 0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:22.239 which is a lack of control that we all feel 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:25.600 over our lives. The idea that we can now gamble 0:55:25.719 --> 0:55:28.680 like anywhere and we're gonna have a refa some from 0:55:28.800 --> 0:55:31.680 a sixty minute drill my podcast on football, which I've 0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:32.600 never talked about. 0:55:32.960 --> 0:55:33.640 They love this. 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.319 So it's this thing of like, oh, I can have 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.360 some control over my destiny. I can now gamble like 0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:42.080 the gamblers in the same way that people use the 0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:44.160 trade and then lost the shit ton of money. 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:45.440 So we've got to sports books. 0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:49.240 The idea of opening sports books up at this scale. 0:55:49.560 --> 0:55:51.560 The only thing worse than it is the thing that 0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:53.920 Robin Hood did, which was opening up the idea of 0:55:53.960 --> 0:55:57.279 options trading to everyone. But I think it activates the 0:55:57.320 --> 0:56:00.480 same thing, where it's this desperation for control in least 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:03.239 control in a way in a situation where you're being 0:56:03.280 --> 0:56:07.279 obviously controlled, and the same way those odds are so 0:56:07.520 --> 0:56:10.840 precisely calculated, in the same way that like whatever pricing 0:56:10.880 --> 0:56:13.520 you're getting an options is going to be calculated by 0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:17.200 the hedge funds that are extra millimeters closer to the 0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:20.239 stock exchange, so they can activate that trade and it 0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:22.719 is like it's the but it's a fandom. You don't 0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:24.520 give a shit about these companies. You give a shit 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:27.640 about money and go up and you feel like you 0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:30.439 have control because you're smart, but the right side. 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:33.240 But they're not selling it as gamble because you like money, 0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:35.560 and this is like a pretty critical thing they're they're 0:56:35.680 --> 0:56:38.200 they're presenting it as a way. It's like I've been 0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:40.279 looking at ads actually around there's a lot so many 0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:42.920 sports going to say, and they're all sort of like 0:56:43.600 --> 0:56:46.960 you're watching sports anyway, you enjoy it anyway. 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:47.200 Just to get in the game. 0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:53.160 It's a little enhancement and and yeah, it's an enhancement 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:56.360 to the core fan experience. And what I think is 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:58.960 in common here with the Tesla thing is that Tesla's 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:03.839 whole pitch was these contradictions can all work together, right, 0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:07.400 not just the the You know, consumers and investors are 0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:09.680 both going to benefit at no cost to each other, right, 0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:12.160 there's no trade off there. But then also like you know, 0:57:12.680 --> 0:57:16.680 venture capital can fund environmental transformation and there's no trade 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:18.360 offs there. You know, government doesn't have to get involved. 0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:19.800 We can do this all getting too complex, and I 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:21.080 think it's just invest in the future. 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:24.080 That's what I'm saying for. The lesson out of all 0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:27.080 of it is that people desperately want to believe that 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:29.120 you can you can have your cake. Needed to that 0:57:29.240 --> 0:57:33.280 fundamental trade offs, And in both of these cases, the 0:57:34.240 --> 0:57:36.880 trade off that always wins is the money. Whatever it 0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:39.240 is that you think you can reconcile with some kind 0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:42.919 of financial incentive over time it's like drugs or something else, 0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:46.520 like overtime, the financial incentive not with everybody, but like 0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:48.640 over the aggregate, it wins. And that's what we're seen 0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:48.920 with time. 0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:51.439 It's being framed as freedom though it's like you can 0:57:51.480 --> 0:57:54.560 do this. You're already doing sports watching, why not make sports? 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:56.360 Just make it a little better as a hustle and 0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:59.400 you won't use anything, and that's what you identify. I 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:00.360 think you do something. 0:58:00.560 --> 0:58:03.160 But I think the overarching theme of both is it 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:05.880 is selling you the idea of a con that you 0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.320 will have industry over something that you have that you 0:58:08.400 --> 0:58:11.920 are actively being controlled, and you you are being fucked with, 0:58:11.960 --> 0:58:14.600 and you're like, I'm fucking back and you're not. Yeah, 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:16.520 you use the draft Kings code. There is not a 0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:18.640 better offline one I'm terrified of gambling. 0:58:18.880 --> 0:58:20.720 Yeah, well the aspect of it too, that is like 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:22.920 the other bit of it that it seems like inimical 0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:24.920 to Like the fun part of being a fan is that, 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:28.000 like when you see people talk about it like that, 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:35.160 the or generally, like the discourse surrounding like gambling is 0:58:35.200 --> 0:58:39.360 that it makes you like sports less because you're liking 0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:41.560 them in this different way. Yeah, because you're participating it 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:43.320 in this and this is something that you know, we 0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:45.800 have a couple of stories out at the factor that 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:48.440 being written not written yet, that are basically about like 0:58:48.520 --> 0:58:53.080 the way that athletes absorb this new sort of obsession 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.360 with gambling, opening that up has, you know, and by 0:58:56.440 --> 0:58:59.240 making it possible for people to you know, whatever, put 0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:03.440 money on whatever, like somebody getting more or less than 0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:05.760 one and a half assists in an NBA game, like 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:09.480 just a building a parlay around the performances of bench 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:13.800 players in some ways, like you know, like obviously technologically, 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:16.080 I suppose it's a feat to make this possible because 0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:18.160 you used to have to literally come to Las Vegas 0:59:18.160 --> 0:59:21.800 to do that sort of thing traditionally. Boundaries, yes, and then, 0:59:21.840 --> 0:59:23.960 but what's weird about it now is that like by 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:30.000 sort of putting in play everybody in every game in 0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:32.480 all of these different ways. There's a lot of people 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:34.680 that you know, like you're a professional athlete, like you're 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:36.720 a public figure anyway, Like people are gonna recognize you 0:59:36.760 --> 0:59:39.440 just because you're like taller and more buff than anybody 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:41.840 else in the you know, restaurant that you're in. But 0:59:41.880 --> 0:59:43.720 there's a lot of these dudes that like otherwise would 0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:46.520 be more or less getting left alone, that are just 0:59:46.560 --> 0:59:48.320 sort of like when you miss that free throw, you 0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:50.760 fuck me out of twenty five hundred dollars, and I'm 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:53.040 coming to your house and I'm going to push your 0:59:53.160 --> 0:59:56.880 kids around, and like that's happening to like people in 0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.800 like minor leaguers. Tom Hakimer, you are on the staff, 1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:02.360 recently told me he had friends I had that experience 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:05.240 happened to him in spring in spring training games in baseball, 1:00:05.480 --> 1:00:07.640 because you get like the real degenerates can bet on 1:00:07.680 --> 1:00:09.600 stuff like that and so. 1:00:09.640 --> 1:00:11.760 And there's probably like a shame barrier when you had 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:14.480 to even if you could come to the casino, like 1:00:14.560 --> 1:00:17.800 you wouldn't roll up and be like, yeah, put this 1:00:18.320 --> 1:00:20.640 parlay with Blake Korm and samaj p Ryans. 1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:24.520 Exactly what are you doing when you're like yeah, but 1:00:24.560 --> 1:00:28.240 then you're like googling, like where does Sama GP Ryan live? 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:32.040 Like how fine? You know, like that's not like at 1:00:32.040 --> 1:00:34.320 this point you can find him online. You place the 1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.000 bet online, like you can do all you do like 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:40.920 three or four totally sociopathic things from your couch. 1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:43.200 And if you are looking to do one of those, 1:00:43.640 --> 1:00:46.080 we will have some advertisers off to this. But David, 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:47.560 where can people find you? 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:51.680 Defector dot com, the website, the Distraction podcast also affiliated 1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:52.240 with Defector. 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:54.720 You're gonna be saying that a lot on this camp. Wait, 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:58.600 I would not get exhausted. You are just at the beginning. 1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:00.520 Ed needam iwackon they find. 1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:03.200 You, Niedermeyer dot io and theonics dot com. 1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:06.760 Mister Newman go to Jared Newman dot com and sign 1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:08.120 up fort. 1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:08.560 Go to Google. 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.160 Type in ways to give ed zetra on money and 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:12.680 then click every link There isn't. 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:15.120 Actually, heypen Blake Koorham house photos. 1:01:15.960 --> 1:01:18.040 I want to see the AI summary of that one. 1:01:18.240 --> 1:01:21.640 Okay, So just just to be clear, playing Madden, I've 1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:24.760 been feeding the draft classes in I always take Blake Koram, 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:28.240 but also Trey Benson was way better and anyway, I 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:30.600 need to stop this right now. If you want to 1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:32.960 spend some money or some shit, listen to a podcast. 1:01:33.040 --> 1:01:35.280 I guess follow the following end, click it listen. I 1:01:35.280 --> 1:01:37.000 don't know how you listen to these things. I don't 1:01:37.040 --> 1:01:39.560 listen to podcasts. I'm at Zitra and you can find 1:01:39.600 --> 1:01:55.160 me on the internet. Okay, so we've now returned to 1:01:55.280 --> 1:01:57.840 the third section of this part of the podcast, and 1:01:58.200 --> 1:02:00.880 it's important to add I have started to experience yes 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:03.720 brain myself, which means that I'm just thinking because Jared 1:02:03.760 --> 1:02:07.400 said it the phrase google juice, So just think and 1:02:07.480 --> 1:02:08.439 say that for a while. 1:02:08.720 --> 1:02:09.680 We're, of course enjoyed. 1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:16.600 Jesus Christ, we aren't getting joined. Were joined. Just keep it, Matt, 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:19.680 I'm sorry. By Edward and Graso Junior. We now have 1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:22.640 three ads on one podcast, not good. 1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:28.160 Growing, more powerful any other as any other ads that 1:02:28.240 --> 1:02:29.080 c s want. 1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:33.800 Just join us Ultron. Let's ed Vultron. Jesus you should 1:02:33.840 --> 1:02:34.000 do a. 1:02:35.600 --> 1:02:36.000 Segment. 1:02:38.240 --> 1:02:40.360 Is that a reference to something that you know, like 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:41.800 in the you know, crunchberries. 1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:44.400 I know what you're talking about. 1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:47.520 Yeah, okay, well yeah, somebody someone's gonna email this to me. 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:48.439 I'm gonna look bad. 1:02:48.680 --> 1:02:53.200 David Rath of Defector is joining us, and of course Ednimyer, 1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:54.160 the car expert. 1:02:55.000 --> 1:03:01.160 Hello, my man loves wheels. Jared Newman, freelance journalist, tech journalist, advisorator. 1:03:01.520 --> 1:03:03.280 Oh thank you for calling that out. 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:05.320 Yeah you could have also when I asked you what 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:09.280 you do now? Sorry, I mean, I'm sorry for you. 1:03:09.680 --> 1:03:10.360 Let's be honest. 1:03:10.640 --> 1:03:12.720 But the reason I bring up ces brain is because 1:03:13.440 --> 1:03:17.000 there is something very concussive about the Consumer Electronics Show. 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:19.200 And part of the reasons I did this, other than 1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:22.800 the fact that I love podcasting, is because there is 1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:26.040 a defined effect of this show. And it doesn't matter 1:03:26.080 --> 1:03:29.680 whether you've been here a hundred times or two times 1:03:29.760 --> 1:03:32.360 or no times, you experience the same thing because there 1:03:32.440 --> 1:03:34.520 is just something about this place where you come in 1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:37.240 and you're there ostensibly for something real, and then you 1:03:37.280 --> 1:03:39.920 go on to a show floor where most of it 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:43.600 isn't or might be, and you think, wow, all that 1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:46.440 latent potential. But if you've been here enough times, you 1:03:46.480 --> 1:03:49.040 know that isn't potential. It's just lies. 1:03:49.840 --> 1:03:51.640 This may not be what you're talking about at all, 1:03:51.760 --> 1:03:55.800 but it's fine. But like you know, in swimming, there's 1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:58.760 like the thing where you like, you know, you train 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:03.360 with like heavy stuff on right, and then you like 1:04:03.640 --> 1:04:05.960 you like shear all that and like shave all your 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:08.680 Don't ask me how I know this, you know, and 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:10.880 you feel like you're like in the in the in 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:14.840 the clear. Okay. But when I on this podcast and 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:17.920 when we've hung out after, you know, later in CS 1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:21.360 and previous year, right, you know, I'm not really a 1:04:21.360 --> 1:04:24.560 big partier or I don't even drink caffeine during the show, 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:27.680 and then I come here and I have a drink 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.880 that fills made with black blood of the earth, and it's. 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:34.480 Like the I guess it's like the opposite, the opposite of. 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:38.000 Like of like preparing for a meat and like tapering 1:04:38.040 --> 1:04:42.480 down and being ready to Yeah, it's like making yourself feel. 1:04:43.840 --> 1:04:46.080 No, no, okay, this actually does make sense. I don't 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:46.760 know it does. 1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:50.560 There is also something very like self hommy about CS, 1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:53.680 in the sense that like last g last times at 1:04:53.760 --> 1:04:55.360 c S, I always find a play is to like 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:59.560 drive myself insane. Now, this year was just like trapped Headstrong. 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:01.919 But there was one year where I went and all 1:05:01.960 --> 1:05:04.920 I listened to for hours on the LVCC floor was 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:10.320 party rock Anthem by LMFAO and Other World from the 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:13.880 Final Fantasy ten soundtrack. That's when you fight Jecked. Any 1:05:14.200 --> 1:05:15.720 listeners you love Final Fantasy tex. 1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:20.640 You are trying to dissociate, Yeah, I don't. 1:05:20.480 --> 1:05:23.200 Really tend to associate when I get here, so just 1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:25.800 like it's just the pain begins. But I think that 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:27.880 there's just something weird about the show. And I realize 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:30.520 I've now described at length just the way I terrorized myself. 1:05:30.920 --> 1:05:33.800 We're just coming here. You're not like you're there for 1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:35.880 a job, but you're surrounded by shit where like people 1:05:35.920 --> 1:05:38.640 are like, my job is kind of lying, My job 1:05:38.720 --> 1:05:40.680 is kind of suggesting I might do something. 1:05:40.680 --> 1:05:43.800 But eh, so I actually what I like about saying 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:46.200 I'll put the positives me in on this. What I 1:05:46.240 --> 1:05:48.040 like about ces the value I get out of it 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:51.080 is that like when you do if what you're trying 1:05:51.120 --> 1:05:55.120 to do is discern between what might be real and 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:58.200 what might might not be In technology, right in an 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:01.040 emerging tech you don't have a lot to go on. 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:04.280 You're dealing with companies that control information like crazy, Yeah, 1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:07.280 and that's what that's what you need to go on. Uh, 1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:09.560 on the Internet, they have so much control over that 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.800 it's what you know. Uh, when you come here, you 1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:16.520 have an opportunity to exercise like your human faculties of 1:06:16.560 --> 1:06:19.160 like in person, right, you get the vibe of like 1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:22.040 companies and people and things and to me, because a 1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:23.200 lot of times that's all you have to go on, 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:25.440 Like that's a journey secret. Yeah, and you have to 1:06:25.520 --> 1:06:29.440 like develop this skill of just like does this do 1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:32.240 these people? How they talk about the product, how they 1:06:32.240 --> 1:06:34.200 talk about the company, how they talk about their plans? 1:06:34.440 --> 1:06:37.640 Is this feel like something that's like real smart people? 1:06:37.880 --> 1:06:39.360 And like the more you talk to people, the more 1:06:39.360 --> 1:06:41.040 you engage with stuff, the more you talk to again, 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:42.880 both the smart people and the frauds. You have to 1:06:42.880 --> 1:06:44.440 talk to the frauds. You have to engage with them, 1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:46.680 you have to look at them and you and in 1:06:46.720 --> 1:06:49.080 a lot of ways, coming here for me is the 1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:52.320 only way to actually exercise and develop this disability to 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:55.360 like kind of intuitively discern. And again it's horrifying that 1:06:55.480 --> 1:06:58.680 journalism kind of depends on that in a fundamental way. 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:01.520 In this don't feel like CS covers this in that 1:07:01.560 --> 1:07:05.760 way though the coverage so rarely reflects that that kind 1:07:05.760 --> 1:07:09.160 of situation. There's just like here's the ten fucking things 1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:11.840 I saw at CS There's the AI fridge and the 1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:13.920 other AI fridge, and the Bachelor of Dishwasher. 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:16.520 But it's basically what I'm saying is it's basically impossible 1:07:16.560 --> 1:07:18.720 to just show up look this thing and say yet, 1:07:18.840 --> 1:07:21.760 like you have to really develop the skills over time, right, 1:07:21.800 --> 1:07:25.080 It's it's training data. Well, you're just collecting training data. 1:07:25.160 --> 1:07:27.920 It doesn't mean you can immediately say this is real, 1:07:28.000 --> 1:07:29.400 this isn't. You have to build it up over time. 1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:31.440 There's a weird thing where, you know, especially if you're 1:07:31.440 --> 1:07:34.120 a press and you're you're going to see, you know, 1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:37.400 an exhibit or something, and somebody will will talk to 1:07:37.480 --> 1:07:39.479 you about the product, and there's always this like moment 1:07:39.520 --> 1:07:41.960 where you're trying to figure out like, Okay, was this 1:07:42.000 --> 1:07:44.120 a person that was paid to be at the booth 1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:46.240 and was told a bunch of stuff or is it 1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:49.600 a marketing person or is it a product person? And 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:51.960 you're on the spectrum of like how much does this 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:54.240 person actually know about the product and can we have 1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:57.800 a real conversation versus like you're feeding me bullshit for 1:07:57.800 --> 1:07:58.560 fifteen minutes. 1:07:58.880 --> 1:08:03.520 I'm also curious you guys who have been here times before, 1:08:04.760 --> 1:08:07.880 do you feel like there's any correlation between the boundaries 1:08:08.240 --> 1:08:12.360 of hype and technical capabilities? Like do you think that 1:08:13.160 --> 1:08:15.560 you know, if you're coming in here expecting and seeing 1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:16.960 a lot of it is hype, A lot of it 1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:21.639 is bullshit that a lot of that is inspired by 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:24.519 people looking at tech that we have now and hoping 1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:26.840 that they can have some sort of application later, and 1:08:26.880 --> 1:08:32.600 then the boundaries of that grow as the technical capacity 1:08:32.640 --> 1:08:39.120 you could conceivably fib grows or are these like delusions 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:43.040 or hyper narratives that persist independent of what actually is developing. 1:08:43.280 --> 1:08:46.400 Yeah, Oh boy, I think it's kind of gets to 1:08:46.720 --> 1:08:48.840 like what I was saying earlier about like being pulled 1:08:48.840 --> 1:08:52.920 in both directions, right, because it's like my job being 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:57.040 here is to like try to ignore that stuff, which 1:08:57.040 --> 1:08:59.400 there's a ton of. We didn't really talk about this, 1:08:59.439 --> 1:09:02.640 but like I feel like I feel like it's like 1:09:02.760 --> 1:09:09.280 AI gaslighting here. Yeah, because like everybody is like saying AI. 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:12.640 But then you go and like look at the demonstrations 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:16.439 and it's nothing Like it's just it's stuff that hasn't 1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:21.040 been delivered. Like, Okay, I'll give a specific example, like Intel, right, 1:09:21.080 --> 1:09:24.120 they had a big thing last year about AIPC. AIPC, 1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:28.559 we're putting natural language cross or natural processing units in PCs. 1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:32.040 We're gonna have all these like local on device AI. 1:09:32.200 --> 1:09:35.280 It's gonna enable all these like low latency, amazing private 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:37.559 applications that you couldn't do with AI and the cloud. 1:09:37.600 --> 1:09:39.599 It's gonna be amazing. That was last year, and now 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:41.920 I come back this year and they're like still talking 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:44.760 about AIPC, but nothing has changed. It's all the same, 1:09:44.960 --> 1:09:47.600 like there's no applications yet, and I was like, what, 1:09:47.880 --> 1:09:50.519 what what have you been doing? And it's like that 1:09:50.600 --> 1:09:53.479 when you go everywhere, like you go to Samsung's booth 1:09:53.520 --> 1:09:56.120 and they're talking about AI and TVs and AI this 1:09:56.200 --> 1:09:59.240 and that, and it's like not really anything. And it's 1:09:59.240 --> 1:10:02.000 definitely not like half of it is not like LLLM 1:10:02.120 --> 1:10:04.000 generative AI, which is supposed to be the big thing. 1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:08.360 It's just AI slapped onto algorithms that they've been using, 1:10:08.439 --> 1:10:11.360 and so it's just like very disorienting to try to 1:10:11.400 --> 1:10:14.479 figure out what is what is real AI, and there's 1:10:14.520 --> 1:10:16.360 just really hasn't been that much of it when you 1:10:16.600 --> 1:10:17.040 get down to it. 1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:19.880 That's been my experience of AI in general from the 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:22.720 outside of it where there's like it just because you 1:10:23.040 --> 1:10:25.040 do hear it a lot like AI gaslighting, I think 1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:29.720 is like the condition of the American consumer in this 1:10:30.120 --> 1:10:33.040 particular moment. And yet at the same time, there's something 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:35.840 about like when you see it in uh like in 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:37.720 an ad you know, where they're telling you that it's 1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:39.479 like also it has AI or it's like you know, 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:42.120 common walking around like telling you about like you know, 1:10:42.200 --> 1:10:44.920 it's like not our fingertips now AI is, So that's great, 1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:48.640 we got that going for it's whatever, any of that shit, Like, 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:52.080 I discount it because I don't think that I've seen 1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:55.360 an application of it that works or does anything cool. 1:10:55.800 --> 1:10:57.599 But then I've also never been in a position where 1:10:57.640 --> 1:11:00.600 someone has to like another person is like in a 1:11:00.720 --> 1:11:02.840 human body that's in the same space as me, has 1:11:02.920 --> 1:11:04.400 to like look me in the face and be like 1:11:05.120 --> 1:11:08.920 and it has AI in it and that makes it better, 1:11:09.200 --> 1:11:10.840 like and so that part of it is like I'm 1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:13.360 kind of looking forward to that aspect of it tomorrow 1:11:14.000 --> 1:11:16.599 to everyone. Much of what I saw on the floor 1:11:16.680 --> 1:11:20.880 here was like inventions, you know, or it was somebody 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:23.080 just being like, it's a COVID test but it only 1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:24.960 takes ten minutes to tell you the results instead of 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:27.000 fifteen or whatever, you know, all, which is like to me, 1:11:27.960 --> 1:11:29.960 that shit's cool, Like I think it's great to invent. 1:11:30.000 --> 1:11:32.320 It's not exciting, but I mean it's exciting to me 1:11:32.400 --> 1:11:34.439 in this sense. But it's like just in you know, 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:36.880 like again like I'm far enough outside of it that 1:11:36.960 --> 1:11:39.160 it's like it feels less like tech and more like 1:11:39.680 --> 1:11:41.479 you made a thing and you try to sell it, 1:11:41.520 --> 1:11:44.960 which you know that's neat. But then the but I 1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:48.040 haven't been to like the Intel room or like the 1:11:48.160 --> 1:11:50.280 big like Amazon Hall Amazone. 1:11:50.760 --> 1:11:52.439 Like I'll give you another example. 1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:54.920 Well, one thing I must say something that happened to me. 1:11:55.040 --> 1:11:58.080 So regular listeners might know about something called the Smiling Man. 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.639 If you look up Google, it's not real, please look 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:03.800 at it. So I when I got my ce S 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:05.880 patch done, I put the Smiling Man on it because 1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:07.040 they'll let you put anything on it. 1:12:07.720 --> 1:12:10.559 And while walking into the Amazon room, the woman woman 1:12:10.760 --> 1:12:16.280 who's doing the security goes, wow, so hot, which, if 1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:19.040 you look up this image is not an appropriate reaction. 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:20.840 Was that not what you were going for? 1:12:22.120 --> 1:12:23.760 I don't know what the hell I was going for 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:24.320 that image? 1:12:24.400 --> 1:12:24.599 Mate? 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:26.439 Anyway, that happened to me. 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:29.799 Jared had a PR person tell me I was extremely fancy. 1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:32.960 I don't I don't even understand, like how to parse 1:12:33.040 --> 1:12:35.280 that you were in your giant I'm wearing Like what 1:12:35.360 --> 1:12:37.679 I'm wearing now is a bunch of questions. 1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:39.040 You fancy. 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:45.640 I didn't know I was talking to a fancy guy, like. 1:12:45.640 --> 1:12:49.760 Weird other worldly reactions, you know, interactions. It's hard to. 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:52.800 Jared, you look great, but you're also in like a 1:12:53.240 --> 1:12:56.080 light blue button down and like blue jeans. 1:12:56.600 --> 1:12:59.400 Were like the blogger uniform. That's how I dress. 1:12:59.439 --> 1:13:01.760 That's what it was, the blogger And I don't think 1:13:01.800 --> 1:13:03.800 it was even like a remark on my clothes. I 1:13:03.880 --> 1:13:09.639 think it was I don't even know whats. 1:13:08.120 --> 1:13:09.479 What was the example you were gonna give them that? 1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:11.320 Y sorry because oh. 1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:14.360 Yeah, okay. So like like Lenovo, right, like they like 1:13:14.439 --> 1:13:16.880 every other PC vendor, like all their stuff is like 1:13:16.960 --> 1:13:19.680 AI and you go to their booth and like that 1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:21.960 they're showing you their new computers. But on the new 1:13:22.000 --> 1:13:27.559 computers is like these half baked like on device AI 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:31.080 applications cool that are right, not cool, no, no, no, 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:33.160 but the computers are cool as hell, Like they have 1:13:33.280 --> 1:13:36.360 a they have a laptop where the screen like rolls out, 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:40.519 which that's cool, Like why and then you're talking about 1:13:40.560 --> 1:13:42.960 AI but like talk about how cool your screen is, 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:44.000 Like that should be the focus. 1:13:44.320 --> 1:13:46.720 That's totally reasonable conflict for me. I mean, obviously you're 1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:48.760 much more expert in the stuff than me. But to me, 1:13:48.840 --> 1:13:51.400 it's like you made a thing that is cool that 1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:55.479 didn't exist before. Like why do you feel compelled also 1:13:55.840 --> 1:13:58.720 or even to lead with this thing that is like 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:02.600 it's not vapor where because it like is you know, 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:05.880 you burn an acre of old growth forest every time 1:14:05.920 --> 1:14:11.960 you generate an image of like warriors pussy, like it's 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:13.439 like that's real, you know. 1:14:13.680 --> 1:14:15.479 Like, but wos pussy is? 1:14:15.600 --> 1:14:17.560 Really it's very real. It can hurt you. 1:14:18.080 --> 1:14:19.760 I didn't I didn't try it at the booth, so 1:14:19.800 --> 1:14:21.280 I don't know if that's what they're like. 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:23.360 I just to me though, it's like that. 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:29.080 We're moving on. We're moving on from bussy. No one's 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:33.360 saying whissy. It's a serious podcast. I have a serious question. 1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:34.639 You want to have any. 1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:37.439 But that the problem. 1:14:38.360 --> 1:14:40.800 So so what we've been talking about ces brain uh 1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:42.400 And I think one of the things that we have 1:14:42.560 --> 1:14:45.040 to make sure that we let people know my case 1:14:45.080 --> 1:14:47.920 because clearly, like it's some symptoms, yes, it's. 1:14:47.880 --> 1:14:49.519 Life never broken like this before. 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:52.120 But eventually, the thing that's important for people to understand 1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:54.040 it's not just we've been talking about the absurdity and 1:14:54.160 --> 1:14:56.160 the weirdness and and like trying to figure out what real. 1:14:56.240 --> 1:14:59.080 It's not like a fundamental part that colors all of 1:14:59.160 --> 1:15:02.920 that is just the physical exhaustion bit. That's what makes 1:15:02.960 --> 1:15:05.960 out all time. Yeah, And I'll tell you you get 1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:08.439 a unique perspective on this, and I think it's really 1:15:08.560 --> 1:15:10.280 like an interesting way to think about the whole show 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:13.040 if you cover mobility, because you come here every year 1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:16.800 and you hear all these brand new things about how 1:15:16.920 --> 1:15:19.280 the way we get around is all going to fundamentally change, 1:15:19.520 --> 1:15:21.519 and like those things are different all the time. Sometimes 1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:24.120 you know, micro little electric bikes are the thing, and 1:15:24.160 --> 1:15:26.680 sometimes autonomous cars and some of these driver's sistants, and 1:15:26.960 --> 1:15:29.200 you know, it's always different. It's all these different things. 1:15:29.240 --> 1:15:32.840 Everyone is promising that this technology is going to fundamentally 1:15:32.920 --> 1:15:35.120 change how you get around, and every time you come here, 1:15:35.920 --> 1:15:40.479 it's getting around getting around Vegas periods. On the Vegas Strip, 1:15:40.560 --> 1:15:44.960 there are three separate rail lines. None of which are connected. Yeah, 1:15:45.120 --> 1:15:46.560 just on the Vegas just on a few blocks of 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:49.320 the Vegas Strip. And really, for me, like the lesson 1:15:49.439 --> 1:15:51.839 and it's a really important one I think for Cees 1:15:52.080 --> 1:15:54.560 is that like this whole thing is this festival of 1:15:54.640 --> 1:15:58.880 stuff that's promising to fix things, and yet the structural 1:15:59.040 --> 1:16:01.719 issues are what Matt, this is all stuff that doesn't 1:16:01.760 --> 1:16:03.920 address the structural issue. The only way to make getting 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:07.760 around Las Vegas easier is to fix how it is 1:16:07.840 --> 1:16:10.560 on a structural level. Is a car place. You go 1:16:10.600 --> 1:16:12.479 to the city center. I love the city center on 1:16:12.520 --> 1:16:14.720 the Vegas Strip. They built this thing that's supposed to 1:16:14.760 --> 1:16:17.120 look like a little downtown and there is no way 1:16:17.160 --> 1:16:19.120 as a pedestrian to engage with it. Go check it out. 1:16:19.120 --> 1:16:21.519 It's like the Aria and the Cosmopolitan are It's this 1:16:21.640 --> 1:16:26.800 amazing like American symbol of a city where visually it's 1:16:26.840 --> 1:16:29.479 there and it looks cool, but it's all these like things. 1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:31.439 So cars can go down to the parking lot. It's 1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:35.040 a city for cars. And again, like we're talking about 1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:37.759 what's real and what's bullshit, and and that's all fascinating 1:16:37.800 --> 1:16:39.960 at the end of the day, Like it's kind of 1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:43.080 all bullshit compared to like, like how how we really 1:16:43.200 --> 1:16:47.360 experience things comes down to structural things that tech a 1:16:47.400 --> 1:16:48.840 lot of times, sometimes it can change it in front 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:51.200 oft of ways, but ninety nine point nine percent of 1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:54.000 the time it's just some little layer on top of these. 1:16:53.920 --> 1:16:57.960 So it can't feel like enough individual product experiences and 1:16:58.120 --> 1:17:02.200 engagements that suddenly makes it city you know, like pedestrian 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:04.640 friendly or capable of, or it makes it, you know, 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:06.400 possible for you to get around the city without a 1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:09.280 car or whatever. Like that's a state level intervention. That's 1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:10.720 not the sort of thing where like if you give 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:15.080 everybody an e bike, suddenly Las Vegas makes sense a car. 1:17:15.240 --> 1:17:19.080 It's also this none of this matts is because Vegas 1:17:19.160 --> 1:17:21.680 is functioning exactly as as it needs to, which is 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:23.320 much like the tech industry. 1:17:23.560 --> 1:17:26.160 You're trapped within the product and you'll follow its fucking rules. 1:17:26.280 --> 1:17:28.439 Which is why this is the place where we've pioneered 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:32.360 the you know, most innovative and transformative form of public 1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:36.000 mass transit, which is human driven. Tesla's in a tunnel 1:17:36.600 --> 1:17:38.640 where you need to have like three people at the 1:17:38.720 --> 1:17:40.720 station to make sure that when the drivers pull up, 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:43.040 they're not running my car. When I was in that 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:45.920 have you guys, if you haven't experienced that, go oh 1:17:46.280 --> 1:17:47.360 oh no, no, no, do. 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:53.400 Absolutely, yeah yeah, how can you do it from here? 1:17:53.439 --> 1:17:56.439 It's for free? Yeah no, it's like results Resorts World 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:59.160 or like around the but look for the stations and 1:17:59.680 --> 1:18:01.240 go in anyway, go anywhere and then come back. But 1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:04.160 just experience. It is so stupid, and it's it's such 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:07.360 a classic example of like of technology for you. 1:18:07.360 --> 1:18:10.240 Know, and and and just I think what you're kind 1:18:10.280 --> 1:18:13.560 of like hitting on is in technology, like this fundamental 1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:16.360 frustration that I have and probably other people knows as well, 1:18:16.760 --> 1:18:20.400 is like you know, everybody's going after like the flashy 1:18:20.920 --> 1:18:23.960 like AI for example, like the thing that attracts shareholder 1:18:24.200 --> 1:18:27.120 excitement or whatever. But there's all these like structural things 1:18:27.240 --> 1:18:29.360 like I want to pay less for cloud storage, Like 1:18:29.439 --> 1:18:32.799 I don't want every photo I take to hold me hostage. 1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:35.920 Somebody should figure out how to like compete. 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:38.759 With Google Photos or or like Handwest storage. 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:43.200 Like yeah, like nobody's nobody's doing the unglamorous shit that 1:18:43.320 --> 1:18:46.120 needs to be fixed because there's this other shiny thing. 1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:47.960 And what's the rock com bubble. It's the fact that 1:18:48.000 --> 1:18:49.840 they need everything to grow it at oh costs and 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:51.920 they're running out of them, so they're getting crazy. 1:18:52.200 --> 1:18:54.600 Well, and for many years you would come here and 1:18:54.760 --> 1:18:57.480 people the pitch from a lot of these mobility technology 1:18:57.600 --> 1:19:01.040 kind of companies would be, we are going to move 1:19:01.120 --> 1:19:03.880 past the car. We're gonna we're gonna unlock. It was 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:05.840 it's weird, you know, it's this weird moment where tech 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:08.960 and sort of progressive urbanist aspiration there there seems to 1:19:09.000 --> 1:19:12.400 be some alignment around it. And the reality is is 1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:15.800 cars are a structural thing. Yea. And that again, like 1:19:16.000 --> 1:19:20.320 when the more tech solutionism right tries to tackle structural things, 1:19:20.920 --> 1:19:23.760 the more it's sort of revealed to the lack of power. 1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:26.880 Like we're surrounded by so much technological power, but you 1:19:27.000 --> 1:19:28.600 see sometimes the limits of that. 1:19:28.680 --> 1:19:32.719 But this is actually the principal dichotomy of Better Offline itself, 1:19:32.800 --> 1:19:36.600 which is that you have companies that ostensibly sell the 1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:39.720 idea that they're fixing problems, but fixing actual problems might 1:19:39.800 --> 1:19:42.640 make them less profitable, and they certainly won't if they 1:19:42.640 --> 1:19:44.439 start fixing those problems grow forever. 1:19:44.920 --> 1:19:47.400 So CS, Yeah, CS is selling the hype. 1:19:47.520 --> 1:19:50.400 And I think for and I said this first CS 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:54.920 was twenty eleven, so back then you could kind of 1:19:54.960 --> 1:19:56.519 with a straight face believe it. 1:19:56.600 --> 1:19:58.599 You could think the tech industry was going to fix 1:19:58.720 --> 1:19:59.640 some shit, right you. 1:20:00.200 --> 1:20:02.439 Maybe there were more cynical people back then, But back then, 1:20:02.439 --> 1:20:04.640 at least in the media, I was a bit of 1:20:04.680 --> 1:20:07.640 pr baby at the time. You just were like, oh, no, 1:20:07.760 --> 1:20:09.479 the tech industry will work it. I was the early 1:20:09.600 --> 1:20:11.960 days of Facebook. You're like, they're not completely evil. You 1:20:12.080 --> 1:20:14.760 just didn't know at that point. And I think that 1:20:14.960 --> 1:20:17.880 CES has never really graduated from it hasn't really tried 1:20:17.920 --> 1:20:19.840 to adjust to the fact that I think more people 1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:23.240 are like, I don't know about the tech people, and 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:25.639 I have to wonder how CES changes as the result. 1:20:26.840 --> 1:20:31.040 Yeah, there's a there's a a weird disconnect between like 1:20:31.200 --> 1:20:35.560 the image that CS puts forth in like what you 1:20:35.720 --> 1:20:37.880 have to then go and try to find as a 1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:39.640 journalist covering it. 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:42.719 So what it's putting forth is basically like, here's the future, 1:20:42.800 --> 1:20:44.200 this is what it's going to look like. Is that 1:20:44.320 --> 1:20:44.759 the idea? 1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:45.639 Ideally? 1:20:45.840 --> 1:20:49.439 Do you remember, well, if you're list, they're the CEES 1:20:49.600 --> 1:20:54.240 slogan was all all on and I remember that. Okay, 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:56.240 so the CS slogan last year was all on, which 1:20:56.280 --> 1:20:58.519 I guess is a play on all in and like 1:20:58.680 --> 1:21:02.960 all the imagery that they had was like extremely obvious 1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:03.879 AI faces. 1:21:05.000 --> 1:21:07.760 Oh yeah, that's some of the things now I am. 1:21:07.840 --> 1:21:10.120 And so like that set the tone right, like there's 1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:14.040 this obviously like unhinged thing that they're putting forth and 1:21:14.120 --> 1:21:15.960 then you have to go and find things to actually 1:21:16.720 --> 1:21:20.360 be maybe excited about, but that are not that I 1:21:20.400 --> 1:21:20.680 don't know. 1:21:20.840 --> 1:21:23.000 It's over the years just dodging just the made up 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:25.240 shit and before you would just accept. 1:21:24.920 --> 1:21:25.240 More of it. 1:21:26.680 --> 1:21:28.519 Well that's what I'm trying to sort of figure out. 1:21:28.560 --> 1:21:31.360 How I haven't been to Edward. You went to the 1:21:31.680 --> 1:21:34.760 convention center today, right, Yeah, so you saw like the 1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:37.080 weird stuff. I mean, yeah, it was it was is 1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:38.040 this your first go round to? 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:39.080 This is my first one too? 1:21:39.600 --> 1:21:41.880 And the convention center was filled with a lot of 1:21:42.120 --> 1:21:48.559 things that exist already without AI. But you had people 1:21:48.640 --> 1:21:51.680 assuring you that they've reached a new level because of 1:21:51.760 --> 1:21:52.360 the Aire. 1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:55.320 Yeah, you've unlocked its potential. 1:21:55.640 --> 1:21:57.679 And I think, like you were saying, I was actually 1:21:57.760 --> 1:21:59.880 kind of struck by that because when I was in 1:22:00.200 --> 1:22:03.000 the expo, like you said, there were a lot of 1:22:03.080 --> 1:22:05.320 gazemos and they were talking about a but they wouldn't 1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:06.840 actually focus on the AI like. 1:22:06.880 --> 1:22:08.679 They were in the convention center. 1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:11.879 They would actually be like, you know, here's a problem. 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:14.680 Like even that CGM thing which you know, which we 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:16.439 talked about, which it doesn't work if you're which was 1:22:16.479 --> 1:22:16.760 that one. 1:22:17.840 --> 1:22:18.519 This was the. 1:22:20.160 --> 1:22:22.320 Well they said it was not a CGM, it was 1:22:22.360 --> 1:22:23.440 a healthcare. 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:27.080 Management continuous glucose mode. 1:22:27.160 --> 1:22:30.160 Yeah, yeah, continuous say it would great stuff it uh 1:22:30.680 --> 1:22:33.639 so it monitors glucose. It's also supposed to monitor other 1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:39.479 metabolic indexes for you to based off shining uh infrared 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:40.040 on your skin. 1:22:40.360 --> 1:22:40.479 Right. 1:22:41.560 --> 1:22:46.639 And here that's an interesting development because it's not invasive 1:22:48.600 --> 1:22:52.519 and you can use it obstensively to monitor things that 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:54.720 might you know, you might actually have to get a 1:22:54.760 --> 1:22:56.559 medical device. You might have to get something more invasive 1:22:56.560 --> 1:23:00.400 to monitor. But then you you know, you you dig 1:23:00.479 --> 1:23:02.599 a little bit and then you get the other problematic features. Oh, 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:05.000 we're gonna you know, we're gonna we're privacy oriented and 1:23:05.040 --> 1:23:07.160 we're wards oriented, so we're gonna put it on the 1:23:07.200 --> 1:23:10.040 blockchain and we're gonna tell your insurance company everything. 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:10.360 You know. 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:13.439 It's that differently from the main show, the main LVCC so. 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:14.880 At the l v C C. 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:17.160 It just it felt like it was less like here 1:23:17.400 --> 1:23:20.599 is a bit of an improvement or like an issue 1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:24.160 that we want to offer an innovative fix for, whether 1:23:24.240 --> 1:23:26.080 or not you agree with the fix, and here is 1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:29.040 uh this thing that you have that probably works, but 1:23:29.240 --> 1:23:33.280 with AI you can access substantibly more potential. 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:33.799 The more craving. 1:23:34.280 --> 1:23:37.880 That's that's a function of you know, l v C C, 1:23:38.120 --> 1:23:43.759 especially Central Hall being like that's where the big companies are, LG, Samsung, whatever, 1:23:44.880 --> 1:23:48.280 whereas uh, you know, Venetian is kind of these smaller 1:23:48.360 --> 1:23:51.080 companies and so uh in South Hall even to some 1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:52.320 this is very c S. 1:23:52.520 --> 1:23:57.920 I'm sorry, I should be writing and I should explain this. 1:23:58.120 --> 1:24:00.360 I was into the ce S coverage. So there are 1:24:00.400 --> 1:24:00.880 two areas. 1:24:00.920 --> 1:24:03.439 There's the venetianicks Poet which is connected to the Venetian 1:24:03.439 --> 1:24:06.679 and the Las Vegas Convention Hole, and there is the Central, 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:07.800 North and South Hole. 1:24:08.320 --> 1:24:10.360 Excellent time to explain that at the end of like 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:11.400 the fourth hour. 1:24:13.160 --> 1:24:16.040 Yeah, So you know, you have big companies like Samsung 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:18.880 LG that are trying to show that they are doing 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:21.840 doing something big and flashy because what they really have 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:25.080 is like our O LED display is like a bit 1:24:25.160 --> 1:24:28.439 brighter than it was last year, which again I think 1:24:28.560 --> 1:24:31.439 is cool Like that that makes that makes more difference 1:24:31.520 --> 1:24:34.400 to me than than this like AI stuff that they're 1:24:34.439 --> 1:24:36.360 throwing on top. But that's the stuff that they have 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:39.640 to you know, focus on to get what is that? 1:24:40.439 --> 1:24:42.479 I guess like this is maybe that's a naive question, 1:24:42.560 --> 1:24:44.280 but it's not like basically because I feel like if 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:49.200 you are pointing this at consumers and you're basically like, 1:24:49.560 --> 1:24:52.960 we solve the dog door, it's better now. It's never 1:24:53.040 --> 1:24:59.479 gonna let in like, you know, a raccoon or like whatever. 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:02.680 Like you how you keep having like beavers from the 1:25:02.720 --> 1:25:05.000 neighborhood let themselves in your kitchety? 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:07.200 It just shows up in your house. 1:25:07.800 --> 1:25:11.920 Yeah, it's it's it's worth clarifying, like this show, despite 1:25:12.000 --> 1:25:16.840 being called like consumer electronics show, it's not for consumers, right, 1:25:16.920 --> 1:25:19.000 That's what I was going to say. The primary purpose 1:25:19.040 --> 1:25:21.400 of the show historically that's probably true. Now it's still 1:25:22.120 --> 1:25:27.000 is for buyers of technology, for retailers to go around 1:25:27.080 --> 1:25:29.000 and see what they want to put, you know, how 1:25:29.080 --> 1:25:31.439 much they want to buy of a TV or a whatever, 1:25:31.640 --> 1:25:33.479 to figure out what they're going to stock this year 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:34.680 and so. 1:25:35.120 --> 1:25:38.519 But even in that case, wouldn't if it's for those people, 1:25:39.080 --> 1:25:42.640 wouldn't the selling point be the oiled screen is a 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:43.200 little bit bright. 1:25:43.320 --> 1:25:45.719 He's left one important detail out, which is it's also 1:25:45.880 --> 1:25:46.919 for Conning jennalists. 1:25:47.479 --> 1:25:47.639 Yes. 1:25:47.800 --> 1:25:50.439 No, I was going to get to that continue them. 1:25:50.920 --> 1:25:50.960 No. 1:25:51.120 --> 1:25:53.280 Yeah, So I mean I think in both cases it's 1:25:53.360 --> 1:25:56.560 kind of like, that's that's a that's a more attractive 1:25:56.640 --> 1:25:59.160 story to tell, especially if you're not you know, it's 1:25:59.200 --> 1:26:01.479 hard at see yes, and a lot of people aren't 1:26:01.560 --> 1:26:04.800 looking at stuff super deep, right, and so they want 1:26:04.960 --> 1:26:07.680 just the easy story. And so easy story is like 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:10.679 look at the AI we're putting into our TV versus 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:13.160 like we made our TV a little brighter. It's just 1:26:13.280 --> 1:26:16.880 not as attractive if you're not really like paying super But. 1:26:16.960 --> 1:26:20.120 Also it's very hard to write an exciting story about 1:26:20.160 --> 1:26:22.559 something getting slightly better that really. 1:26:24.000 --> 1:26:26.240 I guess that makes sense because if it's the idea 1:26:26.280 --> 1:26:28.719 is that you're trying to generate some sort of heat 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:33.320 around a product, the idea of like, there's just something 1:26:33.360 --> 1:26:34.920 strange about that. I mean, I guess we're probably gonna 1:26:34.920 --> 1:26:37.320 wind up returning to this often. We were the next 1:26:37.360 --> 1:26:42.960 few days that like, because AI is not real, Yeah. 1:26:43.360 --> 1:26:45.360 Like in a meaningful except anyway. 1:26:45.439 --> 1:26:49.320 Yeah, that like the idea that you have to in 1:26:49.479 --> 1:26:52.120 order to make this an interesting story. You have to 1:26:52.200 --> 1:26:54.680 be like, not only is it a better screen than 1:26:54.720 --> 1:26:57.240 it was last year, something that we had like actual 1:26:57.720 --> 1:27:00.240 something that helps you, Yes, something that like in rooves 1:27:00.280 --> 1:27:04.040 your experience. Not only is that, but also we added it's. 1:27:04.160 --> 1:27:08.720 A whole new way to consume television. Yes, when it's not, 1:27:08.920 --> 1:27:10.400 you get it in your home and you're like, I'm 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:11.120 glad it's brighter. 1:27:11.520 --> 1:27:14.000 So there's two things your intuition that like, this stuff 1:27:14.080 --> 1:27:16.320 is not that stuff that consumers are screaming for it. 1:27:16.400 --> 1:27:20.120 So there's two factors. One is that you know postive jobs. 1:27:20.120 --> 1:27:22.080 Everyone is obsessed with this idea of like people don't 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:23.960 know what they want until you show it to them 1:27:24.320 --> 1:27:26.679 as a huge factor in a lot of these things. 1:27:27.120 --> 1:27:29.880 The other thing, though, you're right, like a lot of 1:27:29.920 --> 1:27:32.840 this stuff isn't for consumers in a fundamental way in 1:27:33.000 --> 1:27:36.760 that a lot of this is performance for investors. 1:27:36.960 --> 1:27:39.560 That's the bit that I was curious about. AI is 1:27:39.680 --> 1:27:42.880 for like you're shown out for like the quarter zip 1:27:43.040 --> 1:27:45.519 the v like because they're the ones they care about that. 1:27:46.760 --> 1:27:49.400 You're showing you're on trend, you're showing like there's this 1:27:49.479 --> 1:27:52.120 almost like theater often of like how you position yourself 1:27:52.160 --> 1:27:54.519 relative to your competitors. They have a little boots, you 1:27:54.560 --> 1:27:56.320 have a big but like there's there's all of these 1:27:56.360 --> 1:27:58.519 sorts of things and a lot of them are about 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:00.840 especially for the kind of earlier stay companies and like 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:04.680 which happened more in the in the the hype cycles. Right, 1:28:04.840 --> 1:28:06.560 so you tell this a lot, and like you know 1:28:06.800 --> 1:28:09.559 evs and avs and stuff like these title companies had 1:28:09.600 --> 1:28:12.240 no revenue, no business, but they had these massive, massive things. 1:28:13.000 --> 1:28:14.880 It wasn't for consumers because they didn't have anything to 1:28:15.040 --> 1:28:18.040 sell consumers, but they're there and there were years away 1:28:18.080 --> 1:28:20.040 from having something. It's for investors. 1:28:20.240 --> 1:28:22.960 I think all sense with evs, it's like it's hard 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:23.479 to make a car. 1:28:23.640 --> 1:28:26.040 It's also about about attracting partners from the ecosystem. 1:28:26.120 --> 1:28:29.080 I think also like just to put a finer maybe 1:28:29.080 --> 1:28:33.000 a little more specificity with AI, like AI tends to demo. Well, 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:37.240 so if you're a buyer or investor or a journalist, 1:28:37.360 --> 1:28:39.080 like you look at these things and they show you 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:42.080 for two minutes the canned demos that they have and 1:28:42.160 --> 1:28:44.759 you're like Oh wow, this is really this is interesting. 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:47.680 I mean it's only when that Elon's robot can like 1:28:47.960 --> 1:28:48.919 pop and lock. 1:28:51.160 --> 1:28:51.559 Podcasts. 1:28:51.920 --> 1:28:53.760 Really, it's only when you try to use it like 1:28:53.880 --> 1:28:56.200 in a regular way that you're like, oh, this doesn't 1:28:56.320 --> 1:28:56.960 actually work. 1:28:57.120 --> 1:28:59.840 So I feel like we're entering this like nexus of 1:29:00.400 --> 1:29:02.800 what happens when you spend ten fucking years in the 1:29:02.840 --> 1:29:05.240 tech industry building it for people who won't use it, 1:29:05.720 --> 1:29:08.439 by people who don't care, and so you're at this 1:29:08.520 --> 1:29:10.599 point where it's just like selling nothing to nothing. 1:29:11.040 --> 1:29:14.360 I always had this thing with with Google Home, Google Nests, 1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:19.479 where I felt like like like nobody at Google was 1:29:19.560 --> 1:29:20.080 using No, the. 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:24.320 Google Home app is like an Escher painting. It's like, 1:29:24.560 --> 1:29:27.040 oh I need like soon. Durpeachi doesn't use those, No, 1:29:27.200 --> 1:29:27.479 he does. 1:29:27.680 --> 1:29:31.800 None of these people do. I just and it's funny. 1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:34.120 We keep done hours of this now and it really 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:36.040 keeps coming back to this theme of just everyone going 1:29:36.120 --> 1:29:37.040 what is this shit? 1:29:37.600 --> 1:29:39.480 You don't know what it is as somebody. 1:29:39.200 --> 1:29:41.800 Who's like really just like I read about it, but 1:29:42.080 --> 1:29:44.960 I don't consume a lot of this stuff. Our apartment 1:29:45.160 --> 1:29:47.840 is effectively in two thousand and five and probably always 1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:50.560 will be. But there's a lot of the I remember this, 1:29:50.760 --> 1:29:54.000 especially with a lot of the like the metaverse stuff 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:56.519 on Facebook, uh huh, where there's a part of it where, 1:29:56.560 --> 1:29:58.679 you know, like Zuck coming on with this fucking perm 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:00.360 being like if you ever wanted to do it, attend 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:02.519 a meeting on your computer, and it's like I do 1:30:02.640 --> 1:30:06.720 it all the time, dude. It sucks ass, but also like, yeah, 1:30:06.800 --> 1:30:09.360 it's like totally possible, Like I don't need to be 1:30:09.520 --> 1:30:12.560 like a plush bear when I do it, you know, 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:16.559 like a legless bad but there is a legless kind 1:30:16.560 --> 1:30:21.760 of like weirdly sad looking sorrowful eyes thirty minutes at Freddy's. Yeah, 1:30:24.800 --> 1:30:28.080 but like to me with that, it's like, so where 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:30.519 did you get this idea? Because like, I don't know what, 1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:33.280 Like Mark Zuckerberg's life is very different from mine, obviously. 1:30:33.320 --> 1:30:35.960 No, No, it's someone making up what they think happens. 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:38.040 It really is that simple. They're just like, what the 1:30:38.120 --> 1:30:38.920 fucking people do? 1:30:39.800 --> 1:30:42.800 People have jobs, right, they got cats, So that means 1:30:42.960 --> 1:30:44.400 meetings when you have a job. 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:47.000 What happens at job if you're a CEO of a 1:30:47.160 --> 1:30:51.639 multi trillion dollar company, meetings if you don't do any 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:53.840 real work, that's what you think work is. 1:30:54.400 --> 1:30:57.040 But so your younger eyes on meetings as a CEO 1:30:57.240 --> 1:30:59.320 and then you're like, what if I just became a bear? 1:30:59.720 --> 1:31:03.559 Yeah, this is it's also important. This is why it's 1:31:03.560 --> 1:31:06.479 important to pay. Like the attendees are as much a 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:09.559 part of the shows as exhibitors, and and it's because 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:12.120 they like listen to what people say, listen to. It's 1:31:12.200 --> 1:31:16.000 really fascinating because there is this core around you know 1:31:16.120 --> 1:31:18.559 of people who are on this tech business who are 1:31:18.600 --> 1:31:21.479 like conditioned, and part of their identity is to assume 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:24.200 that anything new that they see at sees is good 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:26.680 and better and something that they can buy and then 1:31:26.720 --> 1:31:28.519 get social capital out of saying, you know, I have 1:31:28.640 --> 1:31:30.479 this and you don't. I'm on the cutting edge and 1:31:30.560 --> 1:31:32.120 more on the cutting edge than you are. Like this 1:31:32.280 --> 1:31:35.800 is a really important part of our culture now is technology. 1:31:35.920 --> 1:31:39.439 And and what's fascinating here is you know, we were 1:31:39.439 --> 1:31:42.360 talking earlier about how the vibe is changing around tech 1:31:42.520 --> 1:31:45.160 right like like ten years ago, fifteen years ago, like 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:50.479 attitudes towards this were very different. There still are these 1:31:50.520 --> 1:31:53.000 people who are stuck in that old like sort of 1:31:53.200 --> 1:31:55.880 tech is all unconditionally good, it's all progress it's all 1:31:55.960 --> 1:31:56.679 making things better. 1:31:57.080 --> 1:31:58.559 And you're there tomorrow they're going to see. 1:31:58.880 --> 1:32:00.960 Wow, these people a lot of cyber trucks in the 1:32:01.000 --> 1:32:01.840 parking line. 1:32:02.560 --> 1:32:04.880 So we sadly at the end now then we're letting 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:08.240 you go listeners. Jared Human, Where where can people find you? 1:32:08.640 --> 1:32:12.280 Go to Jared Newman dot com, Slash Newsletters and I 1:32:12.400 --> 1:32:14.639 will give you some great tech advice all the time. 1:32:14.840 --> 1:32:16.519 Miss the need of mile. Where can people find you? 1:32:17.000 --> 1:32:20.440 Needermeyer do Io and the Atonic Cast, Misterrongreso, jr. 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:25.240 Uh tech Tech, Bubble dot Substack dot com, and then 1:32:25.360 --> 1:32:28.040 Big black Jack have been on Instagram, I mean on Instagram, 1:32:29.120 --> 1:32:30.679 on Blue Sky and Twitter. 1:32:31.479 --> 1:32:35.479 Mister defector dot com is the website. Distraction is the 1:32:35.560 --> 1:32:39.040 podcast I do with that? It's Christmas Town is the 1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:44.000 Hallmark podcast. And I'm also David Jroth Blue Sky. I 1:32:44.040 --> 1:32:47.040 should actually check how that's punctuated. It's hang on. Everybody's 1:32:47.040 --> 1:32:50.120 gonna learn this. Hold on just a moment. I have 1:32:50.280 --> 1:32:51.439 to get my phone out. 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:54.680 I have to think of like a slightly sardonic way 1:32:54.760 --> 1:32:55.599 to refer to myself. 1:32:55.640 --> 1:32:58.920 So yeah, David Jroth dot bsky dot Social. 1:33:01.280 --> 1:33:04.720 Go into Google, take the biggest idiot in tech and 1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:07.120 I pop up. Not really, I'm the smartest man in 1:33:07.240 --> 1:33:10.439 tech exitron. I'm the first person to wear aviators and 1:33:10.520 --> 1:33:14.680 cover technology. You've been listening to a podcast. He will 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:17.640 be apologizing for for a while, but you'll be thanking me. 1:33:18.120 --> 1:33:29.040 Thanks for listening, everyone, Thank you for listening to Better Offline. 1:33:29.320 --> 1:33:31.720 The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 1:33:31.840 --> 1:33:34.439 is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music 1:33:34.479 --> 1:33:37.640 and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com, m. 1:33:37.680 --> 1:33:41.800 A T T O s O W s ki dot com. 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:44.800 You can email me at easy at Better Offline dot 1:33:44.880 --> 1:33:47.080 com or visit Better Offline dot com to find more 1:33:47.120 --> 1:33:50.479 podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:52.720 recommend you go to chat dot Where's youreaed dot at 1:33:52.840 --> 1:33:55.320 to visit the discord, and go to our slash. 1:33:55.040 --> 1:33:58.120 Better Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so 1:33:58.280 --> 1:33:59.000 much for listening. 1:34:00.240 --> 1:34:02.800 Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 1:34:02.840 --> 1:34:06.280 from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:09.640 or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:34:09.760 --> 1:34:11.200 or wherever you get your podcasts.