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Speaker 1: A media scorn by some, hated by all, welcomes a

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Speaker 1: better offline. I'm your host ed Zichron. We are still

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Speaker 1: at the Consumer Electronics Show. Due to events beyond my control.

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Speaker 1: We are recording at like eight pm, which means we're

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Speaker 1: all feeling great, but thankfully, thankfully, we're now joined by

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Speaker 1: David Roth of DEFECTA.

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Speaker 2: Hi, how's it going?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's loving the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry. Is this too much energy? I can

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Speaker 2: take it down if this is if I'm like blowing

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Speaker 2: the monitors a little much.

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Speaker 3: If this is always a problem.

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Speaker 2: So you all are feeling weird because you've been at

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Speaker 2: CES for a long time, and I'm feeling weird because

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Speaker 2: I've been at CS for like five hours and.

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Speaker 3: That's all it takes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, maybe do you what is it that

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Speaker 2: you acclimate? Right, Like, eventually at some point you're just

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Speaker 2: kind of like, wow, Scottish, I'm glad you've got AI

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Speaker 2: in that.

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Speaker 4: So what what happens is that you get really sleep deprived, Right,

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Speaker 4: You're on your feet all day and then you don't

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Speaker 4: sleep and you don't eat properly, and so like your

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Speaker 4: brain just kind of like slowly shuts down on the

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Speaker 4: last like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh cool.

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Speaker 5: So it's like it's like dying, but it kind of

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Speaker 5: like awakens in a weird way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like.

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Speaker 4: You it's actually like an undeath like I can.

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Speaker 2: So when you go like in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: like you go through the stargate, you encounter yourself in

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Speaker 2: a weird yeom and it's like an old version.

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Speaker 3: Of you or a baby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then but and then at the end, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the child turns to regard you.

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Speaker 6: So just just to introduce the other characters we've gone

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Speaker 6: with us a product, give me a way too much

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Speaker 6: in two thousand and one, there's a whole lot, there's

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Speaker 6: like two and a half. Okay, let's just say who

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Speaker 6: you are, though Namaya, wonderful auto journalist, you join me

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Speaker 6: on a previous episode here in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Speaker 4: Good to see you again, Good to see you.

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Speaker 3: Jared Neuman, Freelanca. Wonderful to be here, great to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Correct.

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Speaker 1: Now, the effect that David is describing is actually remarkable

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Speaker 1: because it is true CES veterans generally experienced what I'm

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Speaker 1: experiencing right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm in like the cocoons stage.

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Speaker 1: Which is you go through the Valley of the Shadow

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Speaker 1: of Death and look at your life. Nope, I and

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Speaker 1: you sit there and you go, I'm dying. And then

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Speaker 1: you get tomorrow. Like halfway through, you just get a

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Speaker 1: second and third win, win to even, and that's when

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Speaker 1: you fully jokeiphi and everything becomes darkly funny, you know,

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Speaker 1: oh aiys and everything.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be bad if that would happen?

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Speaker 1: So I'm jokeafying the next three episodes, which is gonna

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Speaker 1: be great. But David, it's great to have you here

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Speaker 1: because not only are you at your first CS, you're

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Speaker 1: not a tech journalist.

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Speaker 3: You cover sports.

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 2: I had to say that to somebody earlier today because

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Speaker 2: I was playing around. I was down there with our

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Speaker 2: friend Jesse Ferrara, who I was on I Believe with

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Speaker 2: you this afternoon.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: Oh, did he just came in to say Hi? Well,

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Speaker 2: do you not.

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Speaker 3: Remember you haven't been on the microphone yet?

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Speaker 2: Man, No, I don't know. I wasn't on with him.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you do back.

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Speaker 3: No, he was on the show. Sorry, that's what I

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Speaker 3: was suggesting. You forgot the No.

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Speaker 2: No, So I saw Jesse and we walked around for

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Speaker 2: a bit and we were playing with a device I

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Speaker 2: guess was designed to give a pleasing jet of air

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Speaker 2: to your pet. It was a pet massager. It was

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Speaker 2: an air pet massage.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I think I saw them as well. Was that

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Speaker 3: the one with the spike at the bottom with the

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Speaker 3: pet is allegedly meant.

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Speaker 2: To rub against No, you're well, yes, it's the same company,

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Speaker 2: but this was a different product. And I was messing

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Speaker 2: around with this one and they were fine with it,

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Speaker 2: and a lady was kind of trying to sell me

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Speaker 2: on this, and even though I told her, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I have a turtle like and I don't have a dog.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the turtle would like it. I don't

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Speaker 2: think the turtle really likes anything that I do. I

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Speaker 2: hadn't eaten, so I did tell them about the turtle.

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Speaker 2: That was unnecessary. It was wasting their time. And at

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Speaker 2: some point she was like, well, I can see that

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Speaker 2: you looked at my Okay, man, the totshit is my

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Speaker 2: lanyard and it's a you know, defector, which nobody knows

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Speaker 2: fuck that is. And if they did know, they'd be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the one with the where Ray Ratto makes fun of

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Speaker 2: the raider. Yeah, like that website, and so she's like

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Speaker 2: I could see that you're you know, it's just a

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Speaker 2: work in design, and I was like, ma'am, I'm a

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Speaker 2: sports writer. And that was more or less enough because

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Speaker 2: you're basically saying like, first of all, I'm an idiot,

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Speaker 2: which you've already observed. Second of all, like I'm not

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Speaker 2: like rich either, and I already told you I don't

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Speaker 2: have a dog, so like, we really don't have very

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Speaker 2: much life to talk about.

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Speaker 1: They tried to sell me a fifteen thousand dollars baseball simulator,

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Speaker 1: which was very cool.

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Speaker 2: Dude. I was ready to buy that.

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Speaker 1: It was so cool, Like those are the only honest

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Speaker 1: people in this Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There was a guy in there with one of the

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Speaker 2: best of the Like if you guys like played softball

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Speaker 2: at all or do you, like, are you familiar with

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Speaker 2: there's like an aesthetic of like a slow pitch softball

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Speaker 2: body type, and it is like you can be a

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Speaker 2: really good softball hitter with a body that would not

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Speaker 2: seemingly be suited for any sport.

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Speaker 3: Was he just crushing it.

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Speaker 2: Crushing it a sweet left handed swing and it's like

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Speaker 2: a similar it is like a golf simulat yeah. So

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Speaker 2: it's like showing you where in Yankee Stadium the fucking

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Speaker 2: tank shot that you just hit was. Oh, and he

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Speaker 2: was just launching them into the batter's eye. But he

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Speaker 2: was shaped like the grimace from McDonald land and I

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Speaker 2: could have watched him do that all day. I mean

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Speaker 2: maybe that's more of like a day four of to

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Speaker 2: be clear.

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Speaker 1: I was there earlier and they were like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: should try it. I'm like, I'm really bad. I'm really

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Speaker 1: I'm bad, and they're like, oh, come on, come on.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm really bad, and I stopped British.

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Speaker 2: I am modest about how good he is a base,

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Speaker 2: I'm the bridge.

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Speaker 3: I'm a British Man who knows what kbo is. And

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Speaker 3: then they're like no going.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm really bad, And then I was I

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Speaker 1: fucking missed it. It is a stationary object and I

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Speaker 1: like barely like grounded out to the well middlefield and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I hold you and they're like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: we should.

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Speaker 2: We should have believed you. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: My version of this was a few years back. I

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Speaker 4: stopped by the nine Bot booth when they had all this.

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Speaker 4: It was like his proliferation of various like small electric

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Speaker 4: like one wheel or like little skate roller skates and

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Speaker 4: all kind of electric or whatever, and people kept product

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Speaker 4: special is, kept being like, oh these are anyone can

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Speaker 4: do these. And I would get all these various like

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Speaker 4: you know things that we look one wheel the unicycle

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Speaker 4: and then the one on each and like I every

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Speaker 4: single I just kept falling down and falling out.

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Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. That sounds like how I would die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, if I told my parents, if they my

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Speaker 1: parents found out I mean that I died getting on

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Speaker 1: like a cheap unicycle at a consumer electronics show, my

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Speaker 1: parents would not. They would just be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sure, I fully believe that. Just where can we

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Speaker 1: find the body is it's still on the floor, Like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that was my I mean the

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Speaker 2: real trepidation with the swaying thing was that there were

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Speaker 2: other people around. But the idea of me like going

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Speaker 2: down with it, like six to eight weeks within obleikue

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Speaker 2: strain within my first like I haven't showered here yet,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Like I got gen Carlos stands in its whole like he's.

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Speaker 2: Torso fenestrated we've never seen it.

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Speaker 4: You need to train next year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like make sure that's that's a bit

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Speaker 2: of advice that everybody's giving me about Sea. Yes, they're

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Speaker 2: mostly people are like, here's where you can get drugs,

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Speaker 2: and then they're also like you gotta stretch.

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Speaker 1: It's from but Evans. He's just saying the gas station mushrooms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I before did he offer you the mushrooms?

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Speaker 2: I mean he offers you very gentlemanly various various things. Yes,

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Speaker 2: he had just like a still have pulling stuff out

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Speaker 2: of his bag. I imagine it's like what's seeing Carrot

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Speaker 2: Top is like.

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Speaker 4: Have you done an episode like that's like the guided

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Speaker 4: tour of the Nevada gas station, like the one all

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Speaker 4: the wonders because I hadn't know it, Like I have

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Speaker 4: no idea that these things exist in stations. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: he got we do, but we don't have like baking mushrooms.

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Speaker 2: You can't get mushrooms there.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think the real Yeah that I mean

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Speaker 3: mushrooms are real.

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Speaker 2: These were they've had a lot of words on them

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Speaker 2: and yeah, but the packaging looked like big league chww.

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Speaker 3: It's that is.

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Speaker 5: On the back. It said this is not an authorized product.

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Speaker 2: Was like it was like looking for the Union label,

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Speaker 2: like being like, all right, well this isn't this doesn't

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Speaker 2: have anything.

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Speaker 1: Well Robert, then he would say that like a point

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Speaker 1: of pride. Though you'd be like, and this is not approved.

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Speaker 4: Not for human consumption.

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Speaker 2: That I enjoyed about that was your friend Garrison.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like call me.

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Speaker 2: That was like you just get a stomach ache, Like

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Speaker 2: it's not gonna like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. It also had a had a list of other ingredients,

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Speaker 5: but it didn't say like what the the main ingredients.

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Speaker 3: Were ingredients just like miscellaneous.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, natural flavors, they're not.

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Speaker 2: They're not purporting to tell you that there are hallucinogenic

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Speaker 2: mushrooms in there. But it has niosin and it was

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Speaker 2: made in a facility that processes tree nuts.

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Speaker 3: It's just all the we put somehow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Ed you cover auto's in general and you

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Speaker 1: follow Elon Musk around.

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Speaker 3: Why what are you here for? Is there a big

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Speaker 3: mobility section here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I didn't mean dismiss it. No, you didn't

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Speaker 3: ask me.

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Speaker 2: He was just like I don't know you. Well, yeah

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Speaker 2: you brought me here with me. Yeah that's true.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, No, so, like a few years ago, quite

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Speaker 4: a few years ago actually before I started coming. Basically

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Speaker 4: like car shows are this antiquated thing, right, it's like

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Speaker 4: a one hundred year old plus tradition. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 4: as auto industry is sort of mature, the juice has

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Speaker 4: gone out of it. Like once upon a time, like

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Speaker 4: car shows were like like Detroit with Silicon Valley and

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Speaker 4: car shows there the.

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Speaker 1: Purpose of the having not been to any seen them

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Speaker 1: kind of from the distance. What is the actual purpose

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Speaker 1: of a carsh Is it to sell? Cause to consumers

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Speaker 1: there's like is there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so so well so now it's like all bifurcated, right,

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Speaker 4: so so the ones that have survived are mostly like

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Speaker 4: small regional ones and it's literally just like here are

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Speaker 4: the cars that are for sale now and you can

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Speaker 4: go and said it's actually like a useful thing. But

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Speaker 4: facing yeah, but like so like originally it was it

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Speaker 4: was like here's introducing new models, introducing new technologies. And

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Speaker 4: then also like again like Detroit was the Silicon Value

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Speaker 4: of the twentieth century and just like these whole futurist

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Speaker 4: visions and like entertainment and like you know, celebrities, it

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Speaker 4: was a show.

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Speaker 2: My dad used to take me to the one at

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Speaker 2: the Jacob Javitt Center in New York City. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it was like as a you know whatever, ten twelve

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Speaker 2: years old, Like that was the coolest shit I'd ever seen. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the concept cars like looked I mean if they just

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Speaker 2: I mean, none of them as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 2: like came to market. Like it wasn't the sort of

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Speaker 2: thing where it was like, oh yeah I saw him

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Speaker 2: playing rookie ball. It was like something where they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's got a nuclear reactor in it, and I got

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Speaker 2: to sit at it and be like sick. And that

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Speaker 2: was it. But that was the last anyone saw of it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So they'll show these concept cars to sort of

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Speaker 4: like sort of signal like the future direction that the

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Speaker 4: styling's going to take, and judge the sort of response

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Speaker 4: to it and whatever. And again like that, there's a

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Speaker 4: long tradition of like pageantry that sort of has like

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Speaker 4: faded out over the years, right, like come one of

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Speaker 4: the things that almost does not to throw that in there,

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Speaker 4: but he's bring that back. He's like kind of a

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Speaker 4: throwback to this old school showbiz version of it.

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Speaker 3: But it also sucks well.

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Speaker 4: And so so these car shows were losing their steam

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Speaker 4: as cars were becoming these like anonymous entertainable applients, right,

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Speaker 4: these were this is a connected trend. And then tech

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Speaker 4: started happening and cars they had someone had the great

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Speaker 4: idea that cars could be or really should be devices,

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Speaker 4: and with that CS became actually the most important. Like

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Speaker 4: twenty I'm gonna get called out for not knowing the

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Speaker 4: exact day, but it's like twenty fourteen, like mid twin cards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like you don't have to know stuff on the

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Speaker 3: show don't work.

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Speaker 4: Actually it was littler than that, I think.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: But so what's the distinction with devices? Is it basically

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Speaker 2: is it like teslification of the like where it's like

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Speaker 2: touchscreens and applications.

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Speaker 3: And is it the designs to standardized as well.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, so it's a lot of things. So it's

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Speaker 4: it's it's so really what it comes down to is

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Speaker 4: tech sort of thinks that everything should be like it,

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Speaker 4: and it looks at cars and it sees a platform

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Speaker 4: and it says, we need to take this platform and

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Speaker 4: make it, make it like us. And you know, some

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Speaker 4: good things that have actually come along with that, like electrification, right,

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Speaker 4: Like electrification is good for completely other reasons. Tech and

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Speaker 4: tech money likes it because, you know, the idea of

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Speaker 4: replacing what'sever replacing electron or atoms with electrons is like

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Speaker 4: this sort of core ideological thing that everyone texts like,

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Speaker 4: oh yeah, Like anytime you make something more digital, more controllable,

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Speaker 4: more computerized, that's just like this intrinsically good thing. Electrification

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Speaker 4: fits in with that. It makes cars literally more like

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Speaker 4: computers and more like and more like smartphones to the extent,

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Speaker 4: and like Tesla is. The interesting thing about Tesla is

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Speaker 4: is that it really just exemplifies this in this visual way,

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Speaker 4: like I talked about in my book the touch screen, right,

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Speaker 4: and like it's it's like tail fins on a in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen fifties. In the nineteen fifties, the other big

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Speaker 4: technology was airplanes and rockets. Like that was the hot

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Speaker 4: that was the pinnacle of high technology, right, and cars

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Speaker 4: were already sort of starting to lose. And there were

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Speaker 4: sort of two ways you could go with that. One

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Speaker 4: was you could put a rocket engine into a car,

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Speaker 4: which the right companies absolutely did, including with like taxpayer

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Speaker 4: to dollars and like all kinds. But it was a

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Speaker 4: dumb idea and it never went anywhere. What the smart

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Speaker 4: approach was put tail fins on, make the cars look

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Speaker 4: like airplanes, appropriate the aesthetics and associate with this other

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Speaker 4: technology and so like, that's what Tesla has really done

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Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. They caught the iPhone of cars.

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Speaker 4: It's a purely aesthetic thing. The screen and the UI

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Speaker 4: are more like a smartphone than anything else. Whether or

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Speaker 4: not that is a good thing for how you operate

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Speaker 4: a car never gets questioned.

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Speaker 1: They also took advantage of the fact that when the

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Speaker 1: first test thats were coming out, most cars had yet

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Speaker 1: to really modernize in that level.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, no, they were, they were. It was good.

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Speaker 1: It was good in comparison to most car UIs uh, I.

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Speaker 2: Think that's like it's a pill an open question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I had a Fall of Ours sixty and twenty twelve.

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Speaker 1: That was my last car for I had a Tesla

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Speaker 1: for a few years. Yeah, it was a big jump.

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Speaker 1: It was more like I could do the things I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do in a way that made sense because

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Speaker 1: the way they had buttons work was kind.

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Speaker 3: Of like the devil made them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The problem is now Volvo is the best electric because

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Speaker 1: it just works normal. I realize I've basically taught myself

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Speaker 1: into a corner here, soue.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I mean, well, I you know, I think for me,

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Speaker 4: the open and unresolved question is like what makes a

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Speaker 4: car good? And I think as time goes on, right,

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Speaker 4: like when I look at this stuff, people like it

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Speaker 4: because they think that the iPhone is the best product

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Speaker 4: that we've seen in our lifetime. Like ever, if you

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Speaker 4: pick one good product, the iPhone is like one that

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Speaker 4: changed everything and associating with it like this looks and

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Speaker 4: feels like a knife, it must be it must be good.

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Speaker 4: But again, like when you're driving a car, you know,

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Speaker 4: being able to reach over and there's knob there that's

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Speaker 4: always there and you can just change the volume. And

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Speaker 4: you know, for me, like I enjoy driving and like

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Speaker 4: I take I kind of get engaged with it, choose

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Speaker 4: to engage with it, and so less distraction like more

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Speaker 4: just sort of direct engagement with the mechanical car's mechanical

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Speaker 4: device for me is good. And then and the big

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Speaker 4: thing is robustness because when you add these screens, right,

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Speaker 4: so like the screen the model s that changed everything,

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Speaker 4: It was like this is what the future is gonna

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Speaker 4: be the reason they were able to put a bigger

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Speaker 4: screen in that car than anyone else. And in fact,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm sure there's bigger screens now, but

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Speaker 4: it took a really long time for there to be

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Speaker 4: a screen as big as the one in the Model

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Speaker 4: Esque and it was because Tesla simply didn't use an

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Speaker 4: automotive grade screen, so to put. Yeah, so there's a

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Speaker 4: whole thing. There's consumer grade, there's like industrial grade, and

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Speaker 4: really what these are is you take the device and

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Speaker 4: you put it through a series of like mostly thermal testing,

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Speaker 4: and automotive grade is like the highest one. And like,

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Speaker 4: this is what the auto industry does well, is they

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Speaker 4: make things that are robust so that every time you

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Speaker 4: go out in the car, whether it's in freezing weather

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Speaker 4: or hot weather or rain or it just always works.

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Speaker 3: All things I associate with Tesla.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. There's like a

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Speaker 2: kind of an ominous bit of foreshadowing. Yeah, where they

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Speaker 2: were just like, well, well we'll just put it in.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, I had to test her in like

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen. Yeah, listeners are gonna absolutely

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Speaker 1: beat my ass in the comments.

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Speaker 3: So I don't have on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: But so just to get past the good bad thing,

378
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Speaker 4: let's just say everything's a trade off, right, And so

379
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Speaker 4: what we're doing as cars we come more like devices

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Speaker 4: is yeah, we're getting they're connected, they're interactive. Now, they're

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Speaker 4: software defined. You can change how your car looks with

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Speaker 4: over their updates and all. You know, all these things

383
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Speaker 4: have opened up, but you've lost the robustness of the

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Speaker 4: core you know, function of the car, which is driving

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Speaker 4: around and getting you from from pointed.

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Speaker 3: And is this something that's affecting more than just Tesla.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So what Tesla has done in this right,

388
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Speaker 4: it is its legitimized what the car companies have always

389
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Speaker 4: wanted to do but we're afraid to do because they

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Speaker 4: thought consumers would there be backlash to it, which is

391
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Speaker 4: cut quality, right, And what Tesla it's not just we're

392
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Speaker 4: but like by putting everything on the screen, then you

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Speaker 4: don't have to have switches, you have to have buttons.

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Speaker 4: Those are the things that the car companies are copying

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Speaker 4: because it saves them money.

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Speaker 2: It feels like.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take the piss era of society. Just like

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Speaker 1: it's like every company's like testing boundaries.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Tesla's not here at CS right, Tesla has never

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Speaker 4: done Yeah, that's actually one of the things that that

401
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Speaker 4: I think was good with the sort of how they've

402
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Speaker 4: done the brand building stuff is they don't do they

403
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Speaker 4: they don't show concepts, right if they show you a car.

404
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 4: This has changed Okay, yeah, this has changed more recently,

405
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Speaker 4: but like historically when they were building the brand, it

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Speaker 4: was like they would show you a car. It would

407
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Speaker 4: change maybe a little bit to production, but basically they

408
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Speaker 4: were showing you the car that you were going to

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Speaker 4: be able to buy. You wouldn't be able to get

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Speaker 4: it at the price, you know, there would be all

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Speaker 4: kinds of other things that would happen by the time

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Speaker 4: you got it, but but visually that was really important.

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Speaker 4: They didn't show you something that they had no intention

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Speaker 4: of making, which every other car does.

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Speaker 3: Come on again, this is this has changed.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So like the roads during the semi Yeah, this,

417
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Speaker 4: I mean the road the classic Progesla during the period

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Speaker 4: where they're when you like, I'm so sorry, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: I mean it's a good point.

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Speaker 1: It's actually an interesting gradual thing with them. There was

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Speaker 1: a point when they said stuff and then it happened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, well and they were doing new things. As

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Speaker 4: you said, they were doing things that to you were

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Speaker 4: really you were like, this is this is good, this

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Speaker 4: is I feel like also, Tesla's just didn't change after

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Speaker 4: a certain point.

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Speaker 3: They just got worse in different ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what I gather that. That's what you

429
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Speaker 2: meant by the sort of like the taking the pissy. Yeah,

430
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Speaker 2: that it's like you develop a product that like people like,

431
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Speaker 2: and then the game becomes trying to see how much

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Speaker 2: worse you can make it and they'll describing right, but like, yeah,

433
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Speaker 2: basically everything, it's just every day that's like the toilet

434
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Speaker 2: based private equity buying newspapers. It's also like you know

435
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Speaker 2: all the.

436
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Speaker 1: Other I need to find like some rich people to

437
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: help me buy the Washington Post, Like that would just

438
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Speaker 1: be the best thing I will run it.

439
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Speaker 2: You're going to become the first tech journalist to try

440
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Speaker 2: to buy the Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the first one where aviate is by the

442
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: Washington Post. Yes, no, that would That's one of those

443
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 1: ideas that I'm going to start saying. And I think

444
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 1: what's great about it is it could never happen. But

445
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 1: saying it enough, people will be like maybe this could

446
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: and that really upset them, which is really most of

447
00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 1: my bag.

448
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,360
Speaker 2: Moving the Overton window.

449
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm moving the oval.

450
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 2: Yeah you got to move that window to move open

451
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 2: it a little bit.

452
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 3: So Jared, this is how many? Yeah, just getting you.

453
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 3: How many cees is for you? How many of you thinks.

454
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 5: This is thirteen or four?

455
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 3: Oh?

456
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: My god Christ? How many of them?

457
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 5: Guess? Uh? The history goes back to before it was

458
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 5: called c Yes, it was like Condex or.

459
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 3: Something compy text. Now that it's not the one in time.

460
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 5: I think it was Condex. Sad that I don't know

461
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 5: the history.

462
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 3: I would if anyone gets mad at you, I will

463
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 3: set my pigs on them.

464
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 2: Before we were recording people, you were part of this

465
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 2: conversation about like legendary cees, fuck shit moments. The Yo

466
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 2: party was the one that people were talking about.

467
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: But like, I wasn't cool in that my friends went

468
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 1: given it.

469
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: Everybody here was just talking about being like I've been

470
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 2: here since Monday and I've seen things you people wouldn't

471
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 2: believe thirteen years.

472
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 5: The funny thing is that I don't end up going

473
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 5: to a ton of parties, but I do I was

474
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 5: talking about earlier a few years ago. It was like

475
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 5: five six years ago. I had been here for a

476
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 5: long time, maybe four or five six days or something.

477
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 5: It was my last day, and I knew there was

478
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 5: like there were a few things that I like still

479
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 5: wanted to see, and I was gonna leave later in

480
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 5: the day, and so I I got on the monorail

481
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 5: and I went to the convention center. And I got

482
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 5: off the monorail and I started walking into the convention

483
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 5: center and I kind of just had like a physical reaction,

484
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 5: like the closer I got. Yeah, and I describe it.

485
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 5: So I just turned around and left.

486
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 4: That's yeah, way to practice self care.

487
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was basically your body telling you that you've

488
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 2: had enough.

489
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 5: I think I think I just rejected Vegas.

490
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: If I worked, if I walked away every time I

491
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: felt like that, I wouldn't move.

492
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. The thing is like so Vegas itself is one

493
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 4: of those places where it's like, way if you hit

494
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 4: three days, like even if you're trying to have fun

495
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 4: the whole, like you just cannot do more than about

496
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 4: three days. Yep. And then with Cees you add all

497
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 4: of the everything else on top of it. The absurdity,

498
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 4: like the and the walking.

499
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,959
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that's the other thing.

500
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of people when they're doing

501
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 2: like excess in Vegas, they're not taking like fifteen thousand steps.

502
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 3: That is extill so to come actually not true.

503
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: Really, Oh you get enough dipshit bachelor party ones and

504
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: then you get lost, you will walk in three miles.

505
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: But that makes some sense. I did get lost a

506
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 2: good amount today. But I also, like, I mean whatever,

507
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: I haven't done hardly done Vegas as an adult at all.

508
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 2: And so the idea of like the bit of today

509
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: that I liked was that, like, my legs feel a

510
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: little bit sore now, well, like twenty five degrees in

511
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 2: New York City right now, Like I legit did not

512
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 2: leave my apartment on Monday.

513
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: I got I'm working. Yeah, Like it.

514
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 5: Feets into that like tapping, tapping a weal of energy

515
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 5: that you.

516
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: So we have a small announcement, David, do you mind

517
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 1: turning your microphone to Phil? So it has been eight

518
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: cs is Phil.

519
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 8: Yep, I've been here. This is my eighth ses to

520
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 8: join you.

521
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 9: Hi.

522
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 8: I'm Phil Broughton again.

523
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 3: The Baltender health physicist.

524
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 8: So every time I come here a charge for getting

525
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 8: one of my drinks. As a journalist is an attendee

526
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 8: of cs IS, you need to tell me if you've

527
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 8: seen something dangerous, something that scared you, something that left

528
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 8: you with discomfort such that you think an illegality might

529
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 8: be happening. I'm I'm not going to say proud, but

530
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 8: I'm shocked to say nothing on the floor of CEES

531
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 8: is concerned someone enough to tell me such that I

532
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 8: needed to call the fire marshal to get an exhibitor

533
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 8: removed or at least their exhibit shut down. So I

534
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 8: don't angratulations, congratulations, CEA.

535
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 3: We did it, We did it.

536
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: Finally we've perched through and actually there is something in

537
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: line with this.

538
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 3: I want to say.

539
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: It did feel like going down to Eureka Park, which

540
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: is the the nether Regions.

541
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 8: They put dangerous things.

542
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 5: It wasn't as bad this year, but there have been

543
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 5: years where it just smelled like feet.

544
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: Yes, crazy and no games. Journalists listening, all twelve of

545
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: you think of kenty A Hall during E three.

546
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 5: I get that reference.

547
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a place where you'd go and if

548
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: you had a journalist badge on, you'd have to run.

549
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 8: I can smell this comment.

550
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, ky Kenty is fucked up, but yeah, so I

551
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: really just felt like Eureka Park is usually like the

552
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 3: place where you go to see the people working on

553
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 3: multiple stages of fraud.

554
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 8: Most of that's where the MRI was that year that

555
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 8: shouldn't have been on the floor. Yeah, that's it been.

556
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 3: Now it's all people like at the earliest stages of

557
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 3: fraud where it's not as fun.

558
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 8: Materials that anyone told me about ship.

559
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: They barely brought anything that existed. Yes, turn the microrae.

560
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 8: Okay, I'm gonna google big more drinks now have fun.

561
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 5: Thank you fail before you go, I'm just gonna say

562
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 5: that I mostly came here to see you, So.

563
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: I will say the Eurka Park two. You do sometimes

564
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 4: go and meet like two guys in a folding table,

565
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 4: and then like next year, all of a sudden they

566
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 4: have some massive thing, and then the next year like

567
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 4: they've like taken over like the biggest company in their space,

568
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 4: Like the year that you you discovered them as two

569
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 4: guys in a folding and that there's something interesting about that.

570
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: That was the bit that so I it's funny that

571
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: you mentioned dankness. Fun Well, everything that I had been

572
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: sort of like not just ed either. Like I go

573
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: on Tuesdays, I do like a little standing bit with

574
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: a ESPN radio station in Las Vegas, and I mentioned

575
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 2: that I was going to be at the Consumer Electronic Show,

576
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: and they mentioned that it was going to be like

577
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: sweaty and wet. Everybody is always using words having to

578
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: do a dampness.

579
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 3: To describe this shit a very dry place.

580
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 5: It's a very and in a very dry place, indeed,

581
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 5: And so the idea that there's like a sub basement,

582
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 5: that's basically just it's a part of it's a part

583
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 5: of the expo where the ceilings are too low.

584
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like basically like most of the action in the

585
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 2: movie Aliens is what I'm imagining. I'm like, you're kind

586
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: of walking around line something comes up out of the

587
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: floor or and spits acid in your face or whatever.

588
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: But see that's the thing.

589
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 1: Though it's better than it used to be. Though you

590
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: weren't here during the indieg go.

591
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: Well, I was expecting that when it was in the

592
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 4: Eurica Parker was in the sands, because it used to.

593
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 3: I have to.

594
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: It's in the same place, but it was basically every

595
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: company was crowdfunded and the ship.

596
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: People would say, so.

597
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: Is Eureka Park like the key ball.

598
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 4: It's just unfiltered stuff.

599
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: All right.

600
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 5: I've had demos with companies that later like graduated to

601
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 5: to Eureka Park. So I don't know what that.

602
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: Made more money?

603
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: Where were you before?

604
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: Also outside ye, like we're outside the cromwell, like outside

605
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 3: of the scrap.

606
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 4: I mean, like there's a lot of big fraud, Like

607
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 4: a lot of fraud, right, Like getting a lot of

608
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 4: money to do fraud is actually not that hard?

609
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 6: Is so?

610
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 4: Actually in the big like you know Northall and stuff too.

611
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 4: I mean there's been plenty of companies these In fact,

612
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 4: a lot of times during certain periods of like you know,

613
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 4: big h trends and investing in you know, whether it's

614
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: like light ar or this or you know, some of

615
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: these other specific technologies, you would see sort of certain

616
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 4: names in the space would have these huge things and

617
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 4: you know, right the point of this is to market

618
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 4: We're here, we're this big deal. But like if you

619
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 4: follow the space, you know, like the companies that invest

620
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 4: in that stuff are the ones that don't have the

621
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 4: good right, Like a lot of times, not not exclusively,

622
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 4: but a lot of times the biggest splashiest booth in

623
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 4: the biggest in the big thing is is where the

624
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: fraud is, and sometimes the smaller thing in the in

625
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 4: the kind of jumble of startups is actually they.

626
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: Totally Because that's like, again from my sort of understanding

627
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: of this as somebody who's interested in the space but

628
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: not covering it or not like he doesn't have a

629
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: professional interest. I'm just kind of like fascinated by everything

630
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 2: that's kind of scammy scusy in our culture.

631
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: But this is the thing, it's so emblematic of this

632
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: industry that which like, yeah, no, the big frauds are

633
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: the ones.

634
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: With the right the big scam, but it's like that

635
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 3: there have so many lies here, and that's what I

636
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 3: think what it is.

637
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: I think this is why by Saturday, I'm going to

638
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: be like I'm just gonna wake up in the joke

639
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: and make up.

640
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: Is because I've never talked.

641
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: About CEES this much, and I realized that I say

642
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: this putting on an actual like pop up radio show

643
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: during ces that that would be inevitable talking about it.

644
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: I'm like joke offying again.

645
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: Jared and I talk about the joker love for many reasons,

646
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: but like I thought, I had fully become the joker.

647
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: But now just like as I.

648
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: Fresh new CS people, they have the exact same and

649
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: it's just like this place is just very strange.

650
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: Well but it's strange. But what I was saying is

651
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: I expected because I've only been to the we're recording

652
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: in the Venetian, like the big open exhibition space in

653
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 2: the Venetian, right, but I haven't been to the Convention

654
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: Center yet. I got in here today at like three pm.

655
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: So what I saw I expected to go down there

656
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: and it was just gonna be carnage. It was just

657
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: going to be like a suit soaker that yells at

658
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: you in the voice of Sir Peter O'Toole has an

659
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: ai aspects for some reason, you know. And what it

660
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: was instead was like there were like you were saying

661
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: it that there's like people down there there, there's like

662
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: a dog door that like, yeah, Jesse and I were

663
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: very taken by, and the people were like, yeah, we

664
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 2: were here last year, and like we'd been you know,

665
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: we'd set up this thing and if you hit it

666
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: with a sledgehammer once it got all screwed up. So

667
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: like we went back and we changed the metal and

668
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: now we've had. You know, it's like six hundred and

669
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 2: fifty blows from this, Like you pull a rope and

670
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: a sledgehammer swings into the dorm. We haven't even dented it.

671
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: It's like a good product if I had a dog

672
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: and a house, and I have neither of those things,

673
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: but if I had both, I'd be like, well, you

674
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: know what, like this might be worth three hundred and

675
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: ninety nine dollars, And I didn't expect to see a

676
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: single thing like that.

677
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 5: But the great paradox of CS is that it's kind

678
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 5: of it's like a place to get cynical, but yeah jokerfried, Yeah,

679
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 5: but also like d jokerfried at the same time. Yeah,

680
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 5: it like pulls your brain in these two opposing directions

681
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 5: because there is a lot of that, and then there's

682
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 5: also like the stuff that like reminds you why you

683
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 5: like technology in the first place, and it's hard to balance.

684
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: Yes, that was like pulling for a lot of the people,

685
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: not all of them, the ones that when we were

686
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: talking about, like the things that you saw that like

687
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: fucked you up or made you want to like ask

688
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: Phil to call the you know, yeah, there is one

689
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: that Edward flagged. I just saw he had posted it earlier.

690
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: That was like a germ detection thing with very strange vibes.

691
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: Was this the pass?

692
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so chosen by God, perfected by science or

693
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: something like that.

694
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's me.

695
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's all. Hey, you know what, Yeah, it's

696
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: all of us.

697
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: But before we go any further, we're now going to

698
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: do an ad break. So, David, where can people find you?

699
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 8: Uh?

700
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: Defector dot COM's the website. The distraction is the podcast

701
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: I do with Defector, and then I do a podcast

702
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: about a Hallmark movies that's Christmas Town that is not

703
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: affiliated with any other website because it's about Hallmark movies. Okay,

704
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: is there are linked they could go for those, I'll

705
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: put them in there. Well, yeah, Defector dot com is

706
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: the thing. It's Christmas Town. It's like, I don't know,

707
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 2: like do that look it up podcast or something. Yeah,

708
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: mister need By, where can people find you?

709
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: Neederm dot io on the World Wide Web and blue

710
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 4: Sky and uh autonoast dot com. The autonoast is my podcast.

711
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 5: Mister Newman, I write for a bunch of websites, but

712
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 5: you should sign up for my newsletters at Jarednewman dot com.

713
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 5: Slash newsletters and now if you need to sign up

714
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 5: for something else and you wish to help this show continue,

715
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: if you, and I know many of you, pray for

716
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 5: my me to fall victim to falling pianos in various

717
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 5: carnage situations in which I suffer greatly, which you would love.

718
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 5: Of course, if you don't, and if you love me dearly,

719
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 5: you'll follow this by listening to the ad more intently

720
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 5: than you evident anything in your life.

721
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: And we're back, So I want to get back to

722
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 1: something we were talking about earlier. Which is the reason

723
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: that CS grinds you down and then you have a

724
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: new joivocation and get your powers back. Is because if

725
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: you're only here, the ideal amount to be here is

726
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: like three or four days. And I don't mean this

727
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: for general Vegas. I mean specifically for CES, because you

728
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: get to see the show thought enough that you're like,

729
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: I have a full concept of this, I couldn't have

730
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: missed anything. You can then come to an opinion, and

731
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: then you meet the other people who are there too long,

732
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: the other people who didn't live in two days, and

733
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: you get a kind of like a trauma bonding experience,

734
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: which is what this podcast is going to be for

735
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: the next few days.

736
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: By the way, everyone who's left is just like, I

737
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: just want to see my family again.

738
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: And David, you're going to get you're arriving at CS

739
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: during this period.

740
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is what I want to ask, just

741
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: again from the perspective to bring, to bring an idiot's

742
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: perspective to bear. Well, I'm here, Well I know, but

743
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: I mean this is a different it's more of an

744
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: East Coast flavor. Uh, Like, who are these people that

745
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: you're talking about? Who's staying here?

746
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: So what it is?

747
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: And tomorrow it's like the general public income in right.

748
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 5: I Actually I don't know either. It's probably worth clarifying that.

749
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 5: Like we're at the point of the show because it

750
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 5: open on Tuesday. Today's Wednesday.

751
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: But people will hear it.

752
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 5: So when you go to Booth's tomorrow and talk to people,

753
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 5: they're all gonna hate you.

754
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they've been here.

755
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 5: They've been here, they don't want to be here anymore,

756
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: and you're gonna be asking them like a lot of

757
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 5: questions about their products and stuff and they're not gonna

758
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 5: like that.

759
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: No, you get like the unvarnished booth experience. You get

760
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: it big from Samsung coach like I don't care.

761
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 4: Also, I think tomorrow you do get the general public.

762
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 3: Is it really they allowed that?

763
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's two days. I think of sort of

764
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: media and sort of controlled access and then and then

765
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: it opens up to the public and then you get

766
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: to see the technology fans.

767
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, the people who want to be.

768
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 4: Is fans of technology and a lot of.

769
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: Just technology as a concept, like anything.

770
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 5: Exactly.

771
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna say. Just like I love robots,

772
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: all kinds of.

773
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: Robots' cool if only that was what's the Yeah, well

774
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: they're like the version of robots here is just being

775
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: like it's the thing that it mows your lawn and

776
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: it also cleans.

777
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: Your seven thousand dollars, right, Yes, But so this is

778
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: the bit that I'm kind of because this felt like

779
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: everyone I saw today and then also everyone I saw

780
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: on the street when I was walking around, like they

781
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: just leave the lanyard on. Yeah, Like it's not a

782
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: thing where I mean, it's like no one wants to

783
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: be I guess maybe they don't want to send the

784
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,239
Speaker 2: message like I'm here to party. They're like, no, I'm

785
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: here to.

786
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: Yes, so they want to send the message to the

787
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: actual conference, right.

788
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm here, no fun please.

789
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: I do like that with the.

790
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 4: Lanyard and then the people with the big plastic cups. Yeah,

791
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: sort of like that contrast is beautiful thing.

792
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the idea of those people being together,

793
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: that there's going to be like someone that's got like

794
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: a thing on that's just like you know, like Shensen

795
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: Robotic corps. And then there's also just another guy that's

796
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: wearing like a t bow Broncos jersey.

797
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: But what's great is you are right describing what happens tomorrow,

798
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: which isick. Thursday is the day when Vegas and CS

799
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: truly can buy because it's the general public, but it's

800
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: also the people that come to Vegas on Thursdays, and

801
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: they are a rich tapestry of people. They are beautiful creation.

802
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: Sadly the football season is over because had this happened,

803
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: have we had like the Chargers Raiders game.

804
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: You've got like a team and I said, this is

805
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: a Raiders fan.

806
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if there are Raiders fans who listen

807
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: to this podcast, but it gets better for other teams now.

808
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: I wish the Raiders fans and the various transient fan

809
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: bases that come in greater number than Raiders fans here.

810
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: I wish they'd have met, but really just people coming

811
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: to Vegas in like the first working week of January,

812
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: meeting with the people made to come here due to

813
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: job is. It's going to be great. You're going to

814
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: see a very special kind of Vegas. I can't wait

815
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: to hear.

816
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: I had a nice experience of just kind of like

817
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: drifting by the sports book earlier today and it's still yeah,

818
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: just the one because I was, you know, wandering around

819
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: the floor. There's a lot of you know, this is

820
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 2: a again hadn't eaten very much. There's like a bunch

821
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: of really name brand Italian restaurants in this hotel. Unfortunately,

822
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: there's also eighty thousand people attending this conference, so it

823
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: wasn't like you can't walk into Jelina and be like,

824
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: I'd love to eat at the bar. Like you can

825
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: tell them that and they'll be like, that's great. A

826
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 2: lot of people would love to eat it. So yeah,

827
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: but the uh, the sports book area was like that

828
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: felt like a Cees free zone because the only things

829
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: that you can watch right now are like it's Big

830
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 2: Ten Conference play basketball. It's like the USC and Maryland. Yeah.

831
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: I also there's not a single person going to the

832
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: Consumer Electronics show who can do anything to any of

833
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: the guys in the sports book who are there.

834
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: Specific like the day Traders. The ones were like okay

835
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: and say Men's spot volleyball, I've got my my mortgage

836
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: payment for this month. This one. You come and talk

837
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: to him about the computer, he will punch through. He'll

838
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 3: do a fist in the North Star thing.

839
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Actually, a robot that cleans your pool, doesn't that beat all? Unfortunately,

840
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: if Bowling Green doesn't score seventy one points in this

841
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 2: Ohio Valley Conference.

842
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 4: Game, is it really possible for a person to really

843
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 4: fully be both a sportsman and a technology fan. I

844
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 4: feel like yes, at the end of the day, I

845
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: am that. Yeah, I love basic you identify as the

846
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: time Baseball.

847
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: I'm doing a baseball prospectives column about the Mets. You

848
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: don't know really, Yeah, yeah, I probably should have told

849
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: you getting placed in New York.

850
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 3: Anyway, we need to talk.

851
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's okay, cooler, but no, it is

852
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: possible because they actually both have some similarities. Obsession with

853
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: weird numbers, obsession with weird guys, and in general, a

854
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: complete lack of progress, despite it seeming like there should

855
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: be one, right, the.

856
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: More sophisticated it gets. Somehow, also the dumber and worse

857
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: it gets. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

858
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: But also the problem is they start in very different neighborhoods.

859
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: It's very rare that someone who's a big tech person

860
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: and you start that usually because you haven't got any

861
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: other options. And then there's the sports people who usually

862
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: get into that because they can move at speed or

863
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 1: do things with their hands. Those those are two different points.

864
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I only came there because I'm magnificent, but is a

865
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: very different thing. Nevertheless, one of the reasons I brought

866
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: David Hay was I believe it's a similars. I think

867
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: the skill set for sports jeneraism applies very well to

868
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: tech for that reason.

869
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: Well, certainly it depends on what kind of version, because

870
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: I think that's an interesting question of like can you

871
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: be a fan of both? And I think that it's

872
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: I am a sports fan, you know, I don't know

873
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: that I would say that I'm like a technology fan,

874
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: but I am. I find both of them interesting in

875
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: the same sort of ways because they all sort of

876
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: like point back to the same human aspirations and then

877
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: also like frailties, bloopers, yeah, so on and so forth.

878
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: But being interested in something and being a fan to

879
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 4: the extent that that is the defining characteristic of your personality.

880
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: Oh okay, these are different.

881
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's the bit that I wanted to

882
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: kind of like try to figure out, because I think

883
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: there's people that are fans of technology.

884
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, to the show tomorrow and people you will see them,

885
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 4: That's what you will hear the things that they say,

886
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 4: and they're not the things that normal people say.

887
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: That's something that I've been kind of like struggling with

888
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: again from my like you know, everybody that is online

889
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: or that reads too much or you know, cares too

890
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: much about too many stupid things or whatever, Like, I

891
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: have had to think about technology a lot like everybody else.

892
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: And yet like, the thing that was interesting to me

893
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: about the like the Adrian Dittman saga for instance, is

894
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: that there I know that there are people that are

895
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: like not just you know that they think that Elon

896
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: Musk is a cool guy, or they like that he's

897
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: you know, dedicated to finally telling the truth about minorities.

898
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: But I think that there's also something to do it

899
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: where there's people that like are fans of him the

900
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: way that like people yelling like it's in the hole

901
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: when like Tiger Woods hits the ball, like people that

902
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: are fans at that level just but they basically are

903
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: like they've removed a lot of the higher level stuff

904
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: from their brain and their just cavemen.

905
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: Just explain the Adrian Dittman thing. If you don't know,

906
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 3: don't do it.

907
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 5: There is.

908
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: There is a guy who sounds just like Elon Musk

909
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: and appears to have all his beliefs and talk exactly

910
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: like and then occasionally say he is Elon Musk, who

911
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: is not Elon Musk. He is potentially a weird, strangely

912
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: jacked German Man. And this account is called Adrian Ditman.

913
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what to believe anymore, But

914
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: nevertheless it appears that it's just a strange man. Yeah,

915
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: it's still like a Wallowigi situation. Apparently Walluigi is not

916
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: actually like related to Warrio, Like he's just a weird

917
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: guy that met Warrio.

918
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not saying Warrio correctly. Someone's gonna fucking say that.

919
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: And I have to deal with is.

920
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 4: A related thing though, what you're talking about about Tesla fan, right,

921
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 4: So I feel like a lot of people who are

922
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 4: recently coming to this Elon Musk is a bad guy

923
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 4: kind of coming in with the sort of political, you know,

924
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 4: approach to it. What you've missed was many many, many

925
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 4: years of this incredible online movement and like, I follow

926
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 4: it very close to because I had never seen anything

927
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 4: like it in cars, Like, it's just people are passionate

928
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 4: about cars. People like when the bailout was happening, I

929
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 4: was sort of my first story, and people would be like,

930
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 4: you hate General Motors, and you know, we're General Motors family,

931
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 4: and like there was some of that stuff, but this

932
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 4: was totally different because you know, it was the seed

933
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 4: of the personal cult of Elon Musk. But then there

934
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 4: were all of these sorts of like techno ideological, sort

935
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 4: of neo modernist, you know, kind of ideology that was

936
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: just sort of all wrapped into it. And what was

937
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 4: interesting is is that it really pulled together people from

938
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 4: from both sides of that was resually interesting to me,

939
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 4: both sides of the of the sort of cultural war

940
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 4: and sort of partisan divide in the country could find

941
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 4: things about that that they liked. And it wasn't until

942
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 4: Elon Musk decided I need to pick one side or

943
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: the other that all of a sudden, people were like,

944
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: holy shit and so like. So if you got to

945
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: like Tesla subreddits for example, now like yeah, no, I

946
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: know what normal person would, but you don't. You don't

947
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 4: see you don't see this whole time religion anymore. The

948
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: only place to really see it online is the SpaceX ones.

949
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 4: The space people are kind of like insular and they

950
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: they don't like politics, don't touch them, like, they just ignore.

951
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter to them. But with the Tesla one,

952
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 4: we've just exited this really fascinating period where you know,

953
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 4: this cult and again it's not just a cult. It

954
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 4: was a stock pumping thing and there's all the damage.

955
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 4: I won't get into all the details of it, but

956
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 4: but the important thing was, like there was this moment

957
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 4: where people woke up and realized, wait, holy holy shit,

958
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 4: Like I have a trans kid, and I just supported

959
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 4: like one of the biggest trans people, like not just

960
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 4: supported went online every single day, found anybody making any

961
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: criticisms of Tesla and and spending all day attacking them,

962
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 4: Like I endured like years and years and years of justice,

963
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 4: like relentless, and like they would take shifts come in waves,

964
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 4: and a new guy would decide this was gonna be

965
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 4: his thing, and he'd build his little crew and and

966
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 4: go out wrecking. Like a whole lot of stuff happened online,

967
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 4: and you know, people shouldn't have paid attention to it,

968
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 4: but it's really important context because it shows that like

969
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 4: the dynamics that people can point to as being bad

970
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 4: in a partisan sense, they they fall prey to them

971
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 4: when you strip away that partisan framework that allows you,

972
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 4: that gives you that sort of like moral you know, compass.

973
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: But the thing I've noticed about these kind of techno

974
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: enthusiasts is they don't seem to enjoy the computer.

975
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 3: They don't like the computer.

976
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: So they don't have any joy of even a faster

977
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: phone or a new graphics card.

978
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: These This is actually a problem I have with sech

979
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: what's the the appeal? Then?

980
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 5: Is it a stock price thing?

981
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 3: It is? I think what it is is it's like thing,

982
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: it's like the game.

983
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: That's another type of sports fandom too, is basically GM

984
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 2: stand stuff. I think it's where you're like excited when

985
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 2: your team gets under the salary cap.

986
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 3: Wait, but is there a no No.

987
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: I think I think what it is is the it's

988
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: an identity thing. It's when gamergain and things of that

989
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: nature happened. What I know, and I've been a gamer since.

990
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm like way too yet, like ten, and I love gaming.

991
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: I fucking I in my darkest times, I play like

992
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: Hades or something. I just put a few hours and

993
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: I genuinely feel better, like engaging in my mind. It

994
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 1: makes me feel some industry. I think a lot of

995
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: people listening to this feel the same way about games.

996
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: And then there are people who were just like, well,

997
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: gaming was my fucking thing, and now the womans are

998
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: in it, and now the wokeness is in it because

999
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: they don't really give a shit about the actual gaming.

1000
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: It's just an identity thing for them. It's just this

1001
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 1: is a thing that made me special, and now someone else.

1002
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 3: Is weighing in.

1003
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: I don't really believe in anything, ye, And so there

1004
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: are people who are test the stands who I just

1005
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: think are just like, wow, it's my it's a sports team.

1006
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: It's I don't even watch the games. I go on

1007
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: ESPN and I click on the box score, and then

1008
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: I actually there's a great tweet about this where it's

1009
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: just like going on ESPN and looking at the box

1010
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: score and arguing with people, which is funny. But I

1011
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: think these people are like, well, Elon Musk is the

1012
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: kind of guy I want to feel. I want to

1013
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: be like that guy. I want to stand form like

1014
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: nothing but be very angry and rich all the time

1015
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: and believe in nothing. Because Elon Musk seems completely fucking joyless.

1016
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 5: This is a half formed thought and it may be bad,

1017
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 5: but this.

1018
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 3: Never stunt may make.

1019
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 5: So I guess you know, you would think like fandom

1020
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 5: of a a tech company. You're an Apple fan boy

1021
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 5: or Tesla fan boy, right h while yeah, analogous to

1022
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 5: UH sports team and fanboyism. But then there's Elon Musk

1023
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 5: fanboyism or Steve jobs fist. That's a person. Is there

1024
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 5: an equivalent to that in sports?

1025
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: Like?

1026
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 5: Are people fanboying out over a person?

1027
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean to a certain extent, although I think

1028
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: that it depends. I mean I think that like there's

1029
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: individual sports, Yes, there are people that like I mean,

1030
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 2: one of the things that I remember being struck by

1031
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 2: when we go to the US Open most summers, when

1032
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 2: we can figure out how to do it when Roger

1033
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: Federer was still playing that there's like a hat that

1034
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: you can wear that just has r F on it,

1035
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: like in an inner line fucking like the Dodgers logo.

1036
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 2: And they're just like people that they're basically wearing like

1037
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: a Roger Federer, like just Roger Federer pajamas to the

1038
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 2: Roger Federer match, or he's not even playing, but they're

1039
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: wearing their Roger Federer hat because they just that's when

1040
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: they think of tennis, they think of Roger Federer.

1041
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: It's like I saw a guy on a Cowboys jersey

1042
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: at a ratous game. Yeah, Cowboys were not playing.

1043
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 2: Yes, And that is I mean, that's a classic Cowboys

1044
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: fan move too, where it's just sort of well, I

1045
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: mean not in the sense they just yeah, you're correct

1046
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: in assessing that as being like a fucked up thing

1047
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: to do, but it is also yeah, but it is

1048
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: also it's Cowboys fan stuff. But I think that that's

1049
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 2: an interesting distinction because the idea of being like, there's

1050
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: all these different ways to be stupid about sports, right

1051
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 2: that there's like and a lot of it does sort

1052
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: of have its own political valence, even if it doesn't

1053
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: fully land like you know that. One of the things

1054
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this because the college football playoffs

1055
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: are going on that uh, the SEC Conference, which you

1056
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: don't know, like is in the southeast of the United States,

1057
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: so it's like kind of these like super red states

1058
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: with a college football is a big part of their identity.

1059
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: Oftentimes these are states that don't have professional teams in them,

1060
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: and it was a thing for a while. Less the

1061
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: case this year because the SEC weirdly had a super

1062
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: shit year and is basically like done for the college

1063
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: football season, where if like if Alabama was beating Illinois,

1064
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 2: fans would not and Alabama fans were there, they would

1065
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 2: not necessarily do a Bama related chant, they would chant SEC,

1066
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: which is basically like their way of being like, you're

1067
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: getting your asses kicked right now by a state that

1068
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: is like, you know, Republican trifecta in the legislature, like

1069
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: Tommy Tarberville is our senator. Like that's the bit that

1070
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: I feel like there is like an identity politics aspect

1071
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: of it where they're lording it over it like and

1072
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 2: it is a regional thing.

1073
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 5: Like red versus blue, like tech company.

1074
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. Now it's red versus daka red.

1075
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: I think no, that was a point when I think

1076
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: people thought Apple was the nice one, and they are

1077
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: by comparison now, which is not a good thing. I

1078
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: think Facebook is the one that weirdly people thought was

1079
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: blue but was redder than all of them combined.

1080
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a question.

1081
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: Google Google, Google was the nice one for a while.

1082
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: They did the it gets better thing, and now they

1083
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: do it gets worse.

1084
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: And I gather they were also like all in their way,

1085
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 2: like culturally like it was like they were good employers,

1086
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: they were inclusive.

1087
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: And whatever, and it really is were ye think pretending?

1088
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 4: I mean I think so. So fandom it gives you

1089
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 4: a sort of like personality prosthetic right then sense of

1090
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 4: a sense of community, and I think I think those

1091
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 4: are like universal across most fandoms. I think what tech

1092
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 4: offered so and I just use Tesla as the example

1093
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 4: of that, and it may not be as broadly, you know,

1094
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: but what it gave, what it added to that that

1095
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 4: basic fandom package was two things. There is, there was

1096
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 4: a growing social capital to be gained from being someone

1097
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 4: who could speak confidently about like this is what the

1098
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 4: future is going to be and like Elon Musk gives

1099
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 4: the patron saint of that right, He's shown how much

1100
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 4: power just doing that even yeah, and people realized all

1101
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 4: they had to do was copy, just repeat what he

1102
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 4: said and say it with the same confidence. And people

1103
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: be like, whoa, this guy knows what he's talking about.

1104
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 4: And and you know, Elon must says so, and and

1105
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 4: you get a couple of other little fastil arguments to

1106
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 4: go a wrong with that. The third thing and this

1107
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 4: I'm curious if this is maybe where these things are

1108
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 4: converging that The other thing is is the stock thing

1109
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 4: right where you could buy the stock and then now

1110
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 4: you have financial incentive to go out and proselytize and

1111
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 4: attack people critics, pump the thing, you know, repeat the narrative.

1112
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 4: And I wonder if gambling and like the rise of

1113
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: gambling is is maybe starting to add that into the sports.

1114
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: I think there's an aspect of that. I think the

1115
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: bit that is interesting to me about when you were

1116
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: talking about how like once you are a tesla like stockholder,

1117
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: that like the idea that that is functionally now like

1118
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: a meme stock with Elon as the load bearing meme

1119
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: at the center of it. And the fact that the

1120
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 2: cars are you know, decreasing in quality and maybe also

1121
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: decreasing in popularity and sales. Yeah, kind of doesn't matter

1122
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: that Like if the stock stays high, you're doing all right.

1123
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 2: But in that case, it's like you're actually in some ways,

1124
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: like when you're going out there and you know, spending

1125
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: your leisure time being a fucking online shooter for Elon Musk,

1126
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: you're also advocating for yourself in some ways, like that's

1127
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: your portfolios.

1128
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: In the In the really early days of what we

1129
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 4: were talking about this Tesla online sort of phenomenon, there

1130
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 4: was really one website, the forum, an old school you

1131
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 4: know forum that we all know and love that was

1132
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 4: really so it was the main time Tesla Motor Club

1133
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 4: and it was like kind of the main one. There

1134
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 4: was a subreddit, but started out really small. This was

1135
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 4: the place, and a lot of the website, you know,

1136
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 4: they were like talk about the company, you talk about Elon,

1137
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 4: you know, and then as cars came out, you know,

1138
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 4: so you know, and and and the ownership was sort

1139
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 4: of the main part of the thing of the site.

1140
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 4: At least if you look at, you know, the list

1141
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 4: of all the sub forums and so people were on

1142
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 4: there and they wanted an open exchange of information because

1143
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 4: they had problems with their cars and they want to

1144
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 4: understand them and what the fix was and what Tesla

1145
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 4: was doing about them. And that was the main activity

1146
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 4: of this community. It was helping each other out and

1147
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 4: as consumers.

1148
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 3: Ye.

1149
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 4: Now there was another a sub form of this that

1150
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 4: was the Tesla Investors sub forum, and that was it

1151
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: looked small, it looked like one little thing, but you

1152
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 4: went there and it was so so so active and

1153
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 4: it had its own radicalizing internally like radicalizing culture. And

1154
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: then there was this key point where I and others

1155
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 4: started to write stories based on the the other part

1156
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 4: of the where it's owners wanting this free exchange of

1157
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 4: information and saying, we have this problem, Tesla's not really

1158
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 4: dealing with it.

1159
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: And did that bring them into conflict with the investors

1160
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: where they were like, can you just keep that in house?

1161
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,479
Speaker 4: Exactly what happened there? And it's this fascinating thing because

1162
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 4: Tesla became this fandom that bridged not just like sort

1163
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 4: of political partisan, but like on a fundamental level, the

1164
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 4: divide between capital, like between between management and consumer. Right,

1165
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 4: as a consumer, you want certain things like if you're

1166
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 4: a fan of you want the product to be good.

1167
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 4: You want certain things. As an investor, you want other things. Right,

1168
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 4: you want the quality be as low as possible and

1169
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 4: the marg high, and that comes at the expense of.

1170
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: The keep scessarily. Mind if the product is good, but

1171
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: it's not as important to you as the others.

1172
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 4: So these two parts of the relationship of any company

1173
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 4: came into came to conflict because it had to be

1174
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 4: one community like the the and capital one. I think

1175
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 4: it's a really interesting thing and this is why Tesla became.

1176
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 4: It went from a company. Is one of the reasons

1177
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 4: that it went from being a company that was sort

1178
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 4: of rooted in really trying to surprise and delight customer,

1179
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 4: Like that was a really fundamental thing. Over time, you've

1180
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 4: seen the cynical stock being part of it has just

1181
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 4: completely consumed and like people who are like who were

1182
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 4: fans of the company are like, wait, where is the

1183
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 4: stuff that I was a fan of? And it's because

1184
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 4: that relationship was they want in capital one and the

1185
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 4: and the consumer lot.

1186
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 5: So this is why sorry, so this is so, this

1187
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 5: is why you have people who's like cars have blown

1188
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 5: up and then they do the interview and they're like,

1189
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 5: I still love Elon Mustok.

1190
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

1191
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: That all goes back to that, and that's where they

1192
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: diverge from sports fans.

1193
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 2: Well to a certain extent though, because I think that

1194
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: that still is the kind of thing where there's like

1195
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: an element of that where like there's different ways to

1196
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: be a fan of a team, right, but that I

1197
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: think that there is this aspect of it. It's like

1198
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: Auburn loses by five touchdowns to Florida Ryan and it's

1199
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: like you want to fire the coach, but at the

1200
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: same time, you're not like I'm giving up like war Eagle,

1201
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: no more like no. It's the sort of thing where

1202
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 2: like that's when you do the like the super psychotic

1203
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: fan stuff where it's like, well, now I'm going to

1204
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: poison some plants something.

1205
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 5: Or like the Kobe Bryant like I'm willing to overlook

1206
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 5: some stuff.

1207
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Can I say one bit so too, because

1208
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: you made an interesting point about the gambling aspect of

1209
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: it that I wanted to speak on because I think

1210
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: that that has but both of you were talking about it,

1211
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: I guess, but the the idea of like gambling as

1212
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 2: a type of fandom, I think is like way more.

1213
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: There's like a way for if you're a fan of

1214
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: a team, right, Like you're giving some bit of your

1215
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 2: leisure time as a person to this thing that you

1216
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 2: can control. It's not a smart decision. Nobody does it

1217
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 2: because it's smart. You know, you do it because it's

1218
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: fun and because it's like kind of like a way

1219
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 2: to fill other spots in your life that might otherwise

1220
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: be quiet with noise, which is reasonable, like what are

1221
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: what are any of us doing? Who is listening to this?

1222
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 2: That is not doing that? But there is also this

1223
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 2: other part of it where it's like it's an emotional commitment.

1224
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 2: It's like it's a thing about caring. And I think

1225
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: that gambling to me feels more like for one thing,

1226
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: you are the people that are doing that. I think

1227
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: it is more of like what you were talking about

1228
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: in terms of the like the Tesla Investors part of

1229
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: the forum where it is basically like it and everyone

1230
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: that gambles on sports pretty much everybody loses. The people

1231
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 2: that are professionals, the people that are down in the

1232
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 2: sports book, like if they're really, really, really good, they

1233
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 2: still lose forty six percent of the time. Or whatever,

1234
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: you know, and the people that are just flushing three

1235
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 2: hundred dollars down the draft kings app every Sunday are

1236
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 2: not good at it, but they're like that aspect of

1237
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: it is not It's the opposite of fandom to me.

1238
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: Of course, if you're ESPN or the or your NFL,

1239
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 2: you know, executives, their money spends the same. It doesn't

1240
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 2: really matter if they're watching. They're watching. If they care,

1241
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: they care, like and you know, the money that you're

1242
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: getting from your partnerships with draft kings and stuff that

1243
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: also spends the same. But I think it's the opposite

1244
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: of fandom in like in an emotional sense that it

1245
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: is like it's not just transactional, but that it is

1246
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,439
Speaker 2: sort of taking all of the stuff that you would

1247
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: have cared about in this sort of more communal way

1248
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: and making it about yourself, your experience of it, and

1249
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 2: that like and that like goes and that you know,

1250
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: I think there's a whole sort of like newish thread

1251
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 2: of that in the culture that has been enabled by technology,

1252
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: not just in terms of being able to gamble on

1253
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: your phone, but that's to me, that's cryptocurrency speculation. It's

1254
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 2: the same adset.

1255
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,919
Speaker 1: I think they all come back to a fundamental point,

1256
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: which is a lack of control that we all feel

1257
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: over our lives. The idea that we can now gamble

1258
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: like anywhere and we're gonna have a refa some from

1259
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: a sixty minute drill my podcast on football, which I've

1260
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: never talked about.

1261
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: They love this.

1262
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: So it's this thing of like, oh, I can have

1263
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: some control over my destiny. I can now gamble like

1264
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: the gamblers in the same way that people use the

1265
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: trade and then lost the shit ton of money.

1266
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 3: So we've got to sports books.

1267
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 1: The idea of opening sports books up at this scale.

1268
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: The only thing worse than it is the thing that

1269
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: Robin Hood did, which was opening up the idea of

1270
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: options trading to everyone. But I think it activates the

1271
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: same thing, where it's this desperation for control in least

1272
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: control in a way in a situation where you're being

1273
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: obviously controlled, and the same way those odds are so

1274
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: precisely calculated, in the same way that like whatever pricing

1275
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: you're getting an options is going to be calculated by

1276
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: the hedge funds that are extra millimeters closer to the

1277
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: stock exchange, so they can activate that trade and it

1278
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 1: is like it's the but it's a fandom. You don't

1279
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: give a shit about these companies. You give a shit

1280
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: about money and go up and you feel like you

1281
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 1: have control because you're smart, but the right side.

1282
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 4: But they're not selling it as gamble because you like money,

1283
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 4: and this is like a pretty critical thing they're they're

1284
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 4: they're presenting it as a way. It's like I've been

1285
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 4: looking at ads actually around there's a lot so many

1286
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 4: sports going to say, and they're all sort of like

1287
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 4: you're watching sports anyway, you enjoy it anyway.

1288
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: Just to get in the game.

1289
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 4: It's a little enhancement and and yeah, it's an enhancement

1290
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 4: to the core fan experience. And what I think is

1291
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 4: in common here with the Tesla thing is that Tesla's

1292
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 4: whole pitch was these contradictions can all work together, right,

1293
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 4: not just the the You know, consumers and investors are

1294
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 4: both going to benefit at no cost to each other, right,

1295
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 4: there's no trade off there. But then also like you know,

1296
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 4: venture capital can fund environmental transformation and there's no trade

1297
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 4: offs there. You know, government doesn't have to get involved.

1298
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 3: We can do this all getting too complex, and I

1299
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: think it's just invest in the future.

1300
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying for. The lesson out of all

1301
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 4: of it is that people desperately want to believe that

1302
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 4: you can you can have your cake. Needed to that

1303
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 4: fundamental trade offs, And in both of these cases, the

1304
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 4: trade off that always wins is the money. Whatever it

1305
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 4: is that you think you can reconcile with some kind

1306
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,919
Speaker 4: of financial incentive over time it's like drugs or something else,

1307
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: like overtime, the financial incentive not with everybody, but like

1308
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 4: over the aggregate, it wins. And that's what we're seen

1309
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 4: with time.

1310
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 1: It's being framed as freedom though it's like you can

1311
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: do this. You're already doing sports watching, why not make sports?

1312
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 4: Just make it a little better as a hustle and

1313
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 4: you won't use anything, and that's what you identify. I

1314
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 4: think you do something.

1315
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: But I think the overarching theme of both is it

1316
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: is selling you the idea of a con that you

1317
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: will have industry over something that you have that you

1318
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: are actively being controlled, and you you are being fucked with,

1319
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm fucking back and you're not. Yeah,

1320
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: you use the draft Kings code. There is not a

1321
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: better offline one I'm terrified of gambling.

1322
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well the aspect of it too, that is like

1323
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: the other bit of it that it seems like inimical

1324
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: to Like the fun part of being a fan is that,

1325
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: like when you see people talk about it like that,

1326
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 2: the or generally, like the discourse surrounding like gambling is

1327
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: that it makes you like sports less because you're liking

1328
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: them in this different way. Yeah, because you're participating it

1329
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: in this and this is something that you know, we

1330
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 2: have a couple of stories out at the factor that

1331
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 2: being written not written yet, that are basically about like

1332
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 2: the way that athletes absorb this new sort of obsession

1333
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 2: with gambling, opening that up has, you know, and by

1334
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 2: making it possible for people to you know, whatever, put

1335
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 2: money on whatever, like somebody getting more or less than

1336
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: one and a half assists in an NBA game, like

1337
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 2: just a building a parlay around the performances of bench

1338
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: players in some ways, like you know, like obviously technologically,

1339
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: I suppose it's a feat to make this possible because

1340
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 2: you used to have to literally come to Las Vegas

1341
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: to do that sort of thing traditionally. Boundaries, yes, and then,

1342
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: but what's weird about it now is that like by

1343
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: sort of putting in play everybody in every game in

1344
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 2: all of these different ways. There's a lot of people

1345
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: that you know, like you're a professional athlete, like you're

1346
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 2: a public figure anyway, Like people are gonna recognize you

1347
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: just because you're like taller and more buff than anybody

1348
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: else in the you know, restaurant that you're in. But

1349
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: there's a lot of these dudes that like otherwise would

1350
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: be more or less getting left alone, that are just

1351
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 2: sort of like when you miss that free throw, you

1352
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: fuck me out of twenty five hundred dollars, and I'm

1353
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: coming to your house and I'm going to push your

1354
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 2: kids around, and like that's happening to like people in

1355
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 2: like minor leaguers. Tom Hakimer, you are on the staff,

1356
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 2: recently told me he had friends I had that experience

1357
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 2: happened to him in spring in spring training games in baseball,

1358
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 2: because you get like the real degenerates can bet on

1359
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 2: stuff like that and so.

1360
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 5: And there's probably like a shame barrier when you had

1361
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 5: to even if you could come to the casino, like

1362
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 5: you wouldn't roll up and be like, yeah, put this

1363
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 5: parlay with Blake Korm and samaj p Ryans.

1364
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: Exactly what are you doing when you're like yeah, but

1365
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: then you're like googling, like where does Sama GP Ryan live?

1366
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: Like how fine? You know, like that's not like at

1367
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: this point you can find him online. You place the

1368
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: bet online, like you can do all you do like

1369
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 2: three or four totally sociopathic things from your couch.

1370
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: And if you are looking to do one of those,

1371
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: we will have some advertisers off to this. But David,

1372
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: where can people find you?

1373
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: Defector dot com, the website, the Distraction podcast also affiliated

1374
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: with Defector.

1375
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: You're gonna be saying that a lot on this camp. Wait,

1376
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: I would not get exhausted. You are just at the beginning.

1377
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: Ed needam iwackon they find.

1378
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 4: You, Niedermeyer dot io and theonics dot com.

1379
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 5: Mister Newman go to Jared Newman dot com and sign

1380
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 5: up fort.

1381
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 3: Go to Google.

1382
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: Type in ways to give ed zetra on money and

1383
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: then click every link There isn't.

1384
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 2: Actually, heypen Blake Koorham house photos.

1385
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 4: I want to see the AI summary of that one.

1386
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So just just to be clear, playing Madden, I've

1387
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: been feeding the draft classes in I always take Blake Koram,

1388
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: but also Trey Benson was way better and anyway, I

1389
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: need to stop this right now. If you want to

1390
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: spend some money or some shit, listen to a podcast.

1391
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: I guess follow the following end, click it listen. I

1392
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: don't know how you listen to these things. I don't

1393
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. I'm at Zitra and you can find

1394
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: me on the internet. Okay, so we've now returned to

1395
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: the third section of this part of the podcast, and

1396
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: it's important to add I have started to experience yes

1397
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: brain myself, which means that I'm just thinking because Jared

1398
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: said it the phrase google juice, So just think and

1399
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: say that for a while.

1400
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 3: We're, of course enjoyed.

1401
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, we aren't getting joined. Were joined. Just keep it, Matt,

1402
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. By Edward and Graso Junior. We now have

1403
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: three ads on one podcast, not good.

1404
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 9: Growing, more powerful any other as any other ads that

1405
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 9: c s want.

1406
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 3: Just join us Ultron. Let's ed Vultron. Jesus you should

1407
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 3: do a.

1408
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 2: Segment.

1409
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 3: Is that a reference to something that you know, like

1410
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 3: in the you know, crunchberries.

1411
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 5: I know what you're talking about.

1412
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well yeah, somebody someone's gonna email this to me.

1413
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:48,439
Speaker 3: I'm gonna look bad.

1414
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: David Rath of Defector is joining us, and of course Ednimyer,

1415
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: the car expert.

1416
01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 3: Hello, my man loves wheels. Jared Newman, freelance journalist, tech journalist, advisorator.

1417
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 5: Oh thank you for calling that out.

1418
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 3: Yeah you could have also when I asked you what

1419
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 3: you do now? Sorry, I mean, I'm sorry for you.

1420
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 3: Let's be honest.

1421
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: But the reason I bring up ces brain is because

1422
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: there is something very concussive about the Consumer Electronics Show.

1423
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: And part of the reasons I did this, other than

1424
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: the fact that I love podcasting, is because there is

1425
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 1: a defined effect of this show. And it doesn't matter

1426
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: whether you've been here a hundred times or two times

1427
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: or no times, you experience the same thing because there

1428
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: is just something about this place where you come in

1429
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: and you're there ostensibly for something real, and then you

1430
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: go on to a show floor where most of it

1431
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: isn't or might be, and you think, wow, all that

1432
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: latent potential. But if you've been here enough times, you

1433
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: know that isn't potential. It's just lies.

1434
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 5: This may not be what you're talking about at all,

1435
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 5: but it's fine. But like you know, in swimming, there's

1436
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 5: like the thing where you like, you know, you train

1437
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 5: with like heavy stuff on right, and then you like

1438
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 5: you like shear all that and like shave all your

1439
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 5: Don't ask me how I know this, you know, and

1440
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 5: you feel like you're like in the in the in

1441
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 5: the clear. Okay. But when I on this podcast and

1442
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 5: when we've hung out after, you know, later in CS

1443
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 5: and previous year, right, you know, I'm not really a

1444
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 5: big partier or I don't even drink caffeine during the show,

1445
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 5: and then I come here and I have a drink

1446
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 5: that fills made with black blood of the earth, and it's.

1447
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 1: Like the I guess it's like the opposite, the opposite of.

1448
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 5: Like of like preparing for a meat and like tapering

1449
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 5: down and being ready to Yeah, it's like making yourself feel.

1450
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 3: No, no, okay, this actually does make sense. I don't

1451
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 3: know it does.

1452
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: There is also something very like self hommy about CS,

1453
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 1: in the sense that like last g last times at

1454
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: c S, I always find a play is to like

1455
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: drive myself insane. Now, this year was just like trapped Headstrong.

1456
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 1: But there was one year where I went and all

1457
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: I listened to for hours on the LVCC floor was

1458
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: party rock Anthem by LMFAO and Other World from the

1459
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: Final Fantasy ten soundtrack. That's when you fight Jecked. Any

1460
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: listeners you love Final Fantasy tex.

1461
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 2: You are trying to dissociate, Yeah, I don't.

1462
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: Really tend to associate when I get here, so just

1463
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: like it's just the pain begins. But I think that

1464
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: there's just something weird about the show. And I realize

1465
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: I've now described at length just the way I terrorized myself.

1466
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 3: We're just coming here. You're not like you're there for

1467
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 3: a job, but you're surrounded by shit where like people

1468
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 3: are like, my job is kind of lying, My job

1469
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 3: is kind of suggesting I might do something.

1470
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 4: But eh, so I actually what I like about saying

1471
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 4: I'll put the positives me in on this. What I

1472
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 4: like about ces the value I get out of it

1473
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 4: is that like when you do if what you're trying

1474
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 4: to do is discern between what might be real and

1475
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 4: what might might not be In technology, right in an

1476
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 4: emerging tech you don't have a lot to go on.

1477
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 4: You're dealing with companies that control information like crazy, Yeah,

1478
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 4: and that's what that's what you need to go on. Uh,

1479
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 4: on the Internet, they have so much control over that

1480
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 4: it's what you know. Uh, when you come here, you

1481
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 4: have an opportunity to exercise like your human faculties of

1482
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: like in person, right, you get the vibe of like

1483
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 4: companies and people and things and to me, because a

1484
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 4: lot of times that's all you have to go on,

1485
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 4: Like that's a journey secret. Yeah, and you have to

1486
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 4: like develop this skill of just like does this do

1487
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 4: these people? How they talk about the product, how they

1488
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 4: talk about the company, how they talk about their plans?

1489
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 4: Is this feel like something that's like real smart people?

1490
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 4: And like the more you talk to people, the more

1491
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 4: you engage with stuff, the more you talk to again,

1492
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 4: both the smart people and the frauds. You have to

1493
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 4: talk to the frauds. You have to engage with them,

1494
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 4: you have to look at them and you and in

1495
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 4: a lot of ways, coming here for me is the

1496
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 4: only way to actually exercise and develop this disability to

1497
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 4: like kind of intuitively discern. And again it's horrifying that

1498
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 4: journalism kind of depends on that in a fundamental way.

1499
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 3: In this don't feel like CS covers this in that

1500
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 3: way though the coverage so rarely reflects that that kind

1501
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 3: of situation. There's just like here's the ten fucking things

1502
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 3: I saw at CS There's the AI fridge and the

1503
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 3: other AI fridge, and the Bachelor of Dishwasher.

1504
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 4: But it's basically what I'm saying is it's basically impossible

1505
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 4: to just show up look this thing and say yet,

1506
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 4: like you have to really develop the skills over time, right,

1507
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 4: It's it's training data. Well, you're just collecting training data.

1508
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean you can immediately say this is real,

1509
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 4: this isn't. You have to build it up over time.

1510
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 5: There's a weird thing where, you know, especially if you're

1511
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 5: a press and you're you're going to see, you know,

1512
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 5: an exhibit or something, and somebody will will talk to

1513
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,479
Speaker 5: you about the product, and there's always this like moment

1514
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 5: where you're trying to figure out like, Okay, was this

1515
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 5: a person that was paid to be at the booth

1516
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 5: and was told a bunch of stuff or is it

1517
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 5: a marketing person or is it a product person? And

1518
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 5: you're on the spectrum of like how much does this

1519
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 5: person actually know about the product and can we have

1520
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 5: a real conversation versus like you're feeding me bullshit for

1521
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 5: fifteen minutes.

1522
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 9: I'm also curious you guys who have been here times before,

1523
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 9: do you feel like there's any correlation between the boundaries

1524
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 9: of hype and technical capabilities? Like do you think that

1525
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 9: you know, if you're coming in here expecting and seeing

1526
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 9: a lot of it is hype, A lot of it

1527
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 9: is bullshit that a lot of that is inspired by

1528
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 9: people looking at tech that we have now and hoping

1529
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 9: that they can have some sort of application later, and

1530
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 9: then the boundaries of that grow as the technical capacity

1531
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 9: you could conceivably fib grows or are these like delusions

1532
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 9: or hyper narratives that persist independent of what actually is developing.

1533
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, Oh boy, I think it's kind of gets to

1534
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 5: like what I was saying earlier about like being pulled

1535
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 5: in both directions, right, because it's like my job being

1536
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 5: here is to like try to ignore that stuff, which

1537
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 5: there's a ton of. We didn't really talk about this,

1538
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 5: but like I feel like I feel like it's like

1539
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 5: AI gaslighting here. Yeah, because like everybody is like saying AI.

1540
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 5: But then you go and like look at the demonstrations

1541
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 5: and it's nothing Like it's just it's stuff that hasn't

1542
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 5: been delivered. Like, Okay, I'll give a specific example, like Intel, right,

1543
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 5: they had a big thing last year about AIPC. AIPC,

1544
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 5: we're putting natural language cross or natural processing units in PCs.

1545
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 5: We're gonna have all these like local on device AI.

1546
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 5: It's gonna enable all these like low latency, amazing private

1547
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 5: applications that you couldn't do with AI and the cloud.

1548
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 5: It's gonna be amazing. That was last year, and now

1549
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 5: I come back this year and they're like still talking

1550
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 5: about AIPC, but nothing has changed. It's all the same,

1551
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 5: like there's no applications yet, and I was like, what,

1552
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 5: what what have you been doing? And it's like that

1553
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 5: when you go everywhere, like you go to Samsung's booth

1554
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 5: and they're talking about AI and TVs and AI this

1555
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 5: and that, and it's like not really anything. And it's

1556
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 5: definitely not like half of it is not like LLLM

1557
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 5: generative AI, which is supposed to be the big thing.

1558
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 5: It's just AI slapped onto algorithms that they've been using,

1559
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 5: and so it's just like very disorienting to try to

1560
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 5: figure out what is what is real AI, and there's

1561
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 5: just really hasn't been that much of it when you

1562
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 5: get down to it.

1563
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 2: That's been my experience of AI in general from the

1564
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 2: outside of it where there's like it just because you

1565
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 2: do hear it a lot like AI gaslighting, I think

1566
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 2: is like the condition of the American consumer in this

1567
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 2: particular moment. And yet at the same time, there's something

1568
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 2: about like when you see it in uh like in

1569
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 2: an ad you know, where they're telling you that it's

1570
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 2: like also it has AI or it's like you know,

1571
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 2: common walking around like telling you about like you know,

1572
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: it's like not our fingertips now AI is, So that's great,

1573
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 2: we got that going for it's whatever, any of that shit, Like,

1574
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 2: I discount it because I don't think that I've seen

1575
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 2: an application of it that works or does anything cool.

1576
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 2: But then I've also never been in a position where

1577
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 2: someone has to like another person is like in a

1578
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 2: human body that's in the same space as me, has

1579
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: to like look me in the face and be like

1580
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 2: and it has AI in it and that makes it better,

1581
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 2: like and so that part of it is like I'm

1582
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 2: kind of looking forward to that aspect of it tomorrow

1583
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 2: to everyone. Much of what I saw on the floor

1584
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 2: here was like inventions, you know, or it was somebody

1585
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 2: just being like, it's a COVID test but it only

1586
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: takes ten minutes to tell you the results instead of

1587
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 2: fifteen or whatever, you know, all, which is like to me,

1588
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 2: that shit's cool, Like I think it's great to invent.

1589
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 2: It's not exciting, but I mean it's exciting to me

1590
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 2: in this sense. But it's like just in you know,

1591
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 2: like again like I'm far enough outside of it that

1592
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: it's like it feels less like tech and more like

1593
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 2: you made a thing and you try to sell it,

1594
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 2: which you know that's neat. But then the but I

1595
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 2: haven't been to like the Intel room or like the

1596
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: big like Amazon Hall Amazone.

1597
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 5: Like I'll give you another example.

1598
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I must say something that happened to me.

1599
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: So regular listeners might know about something called the Smiling Man.

1600
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 1: If you look up Google, it's not real, please look

1601
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 1: at it. So I when I got my ce S

1602
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: patch done, I put the Smiling Man on it because

1603
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: they'll let you put anything on it.

1604
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 3: And while walking into the Amazon room, the woman woman

1605
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 3: who's doing the security goes, wow, so hot, which, if

1606
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 3: you look up this image is not an appropriate reaction.

1607
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 4: Was that not what you were going for?

1608
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 3: I don't know what the hell I was going for

1609
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 3: that image?

1610
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 6: Mate?

1611
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 3: Anyway, that happened to me.

1612
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,799
Speaker 5: Jared had a PR person tell me I was extremely fancy.

1613
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 5: I don't I don't even understand, like how to parse

1614
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 5: that you were in your giant I'm wearing Like what

1615
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 5: I'm wearing now is a bunch of questions.

1616
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 4: You fancy.

1617
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 2: I didn't know I was talking to a fancy guy, like.

1618
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 5: Weird other worldly reactions, you know, interactions. It's hard to.

1619
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 1: Jared, you look great, but you're also in like a

1620
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: light blue button down and like blue jeans.

1621
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 2: Were like the blogger uniform. That's how I dress.

1622
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 5: That's what it was, the blogger And I don't think

1623
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 5: it was even like a remark on my clothes. I

1624
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 5: think it was I don't even know whats.

1625
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 2: What was the example you were gonna give them that?

1626
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 2: Y sorry because oh.

1627
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay. So like like Lenovo, right, like they like

1628
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 5: every other PC vendor, like all their stuff is like

1629
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 5: AI and you go to their booth and like that

1630
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 5: they're showing you their new computers. But on the new

1631
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 5: computers is like these half baked like on device AI

1632
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 5: applications cool that are right, not cool, no, no, no,

1633
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 5: but the computers are cool as hell, Like they have

1634
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 5: a they have a laptop where the screen like rolls out,

1635
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 5: which that's cool, Like why and then you're talking about

1636
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 5: AI but like talk about how cool your screen is,

1637
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 5: Like that should be the focus.

1638
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 2: That's totally reasonable conflict for me. I mean, obviously you're

1639
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 2: much more expert in the stuff than me. But to me,

1640
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 2: it's like you made a thing that is cool that

1641
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 2: didn't exist before. Like why do you feel compelled also

1642
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 2: or even to lead with this thing that is like

1643
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 2: it's not vapor where because it like is you know,

1644
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 2: you burn an acre of old growth forest every time

1645
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 2: you generate an image of like warriors pussy, like it's

1646
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 2: like that's real, you know.

1647
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 5: Like, but wos pussy is?

1648
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,560
Speaker 2: Really it's very real. It can hurt you.

1649
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:19,760
Speaker 5: I didn't I didn't try it at the booth, so

1650
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's what they're like.

1651
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 3: I just to me though, it's like that.

1652
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 2: We're moving on. We're moving on from bussy. No one's

1653
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 2: saying whissy. It's a serious podcast. I have a serious question.

1654
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 2: You want to have any.

1655
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 5: But that the problem.

1656
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 4: So so what we've been talking about ces brain uh

1657
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 4: And I think one of the things that we have

1658
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 4: to make sure that we let people know my case

1659
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 4: because clearly, like it's some symptoms, yes, it's.

1660
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 3: Life never broken like this before.

1661
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 4: But eventually, the thing that's important for people to understand

1662
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 4: it's not just we've been talking about the absurdity and

1663
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 4: the weirdness and and like trying to figure out what real.

1664
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 4: It's not like a fundamental part that colors all of

1665
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 4: that is just the physical exhaustion bit. That's what makes

1666
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 4: out all time. Yeah, And I'll tell you you get

1667
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 4: a unique perspective on this, and I think it's really

1668
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 4: like an interesting way to think about the whole show

1669
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 4: if you cover mobility, because you come here every year

1670
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 4: and you hear all these brand new things about how

1671
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 4: the way we get around is all going to fundamentally change,

1672
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 4: and like those things are different all the time. Sometimes

1673
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 4: you know, micro little electric bikes are the thing, and

1674
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 4: sometimes autonomous cars and some of these driver's sistants, and

1675
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 4: you know, it's always different. It's all these different things.

1676
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 4: Everyone is promising that this technology is going to fundamentally

1677
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 4: change how you get around, and every time you come here,

1678
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 4: it's getting around getting around Vegas periods. On the Vegas Strip,

1679
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 4: there are three separate rail lines. None of which are connected. Yeah,

1680
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 4: just on the Vegas just on a few blocks of

1681
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 4: the Vegas Strip. And really, for me, like the lesson

1682
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:51,839
Speaker 4: and it's a really important one I think for Cees

1683
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,560
Speaker 4: is that like this whole thing is this festival of

1684
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 4: stuff that's promising to fix things, and yet the structural

1685
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,719
Speaker 4: issues are what Matt, this is all stuff that doesn't

1686
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 4: address the structural issue. The only way to make getting

1687
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 4: around Las Vegas easier is to fix how it is

1688
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,560
Speaker 4: on a structural level. Is a car place. You go

1689
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 4: to the city center. I love the city center on

1690
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 4: the Vegas Strip. They built this thing that's supposed to

1691
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 4: look like a little downtown and there is no way

1692
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 4: as a pedestrian to engage with it. Go check it out.

1693
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 4: It's like the Aria and the Cosmopolitan are It's this

1694
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 4: amazing like American symbol of a city where visually it's

1695
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 4: there and it looks cool, but it's all these like things.

1696
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 4: So cars can go down to the parking lot. It's

1697
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 4: a city for cars. And again, like we're talking about

1698
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,759
Speaker 4: what's real and what's bullshit, and and that's all fascinating

1699
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, Like it's kind of

1700
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 4: all bullshit compared to like, like how how we really

1701
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 4: experience things comes down to structural things that tech a

1702
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 4: lot of times, sometimes it can change it in front

1703
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 4: oft of ways, but ninety nine point nine percent of

1704
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 4: the time it's just some little layer on top of these.

1705
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 2: So it can't feel like enough individual product experiences and

1706
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 2: engagements that suddenly makes it city you know, like pedestrian

1707
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 2: friendly or capable of, or it makes it, you know,

1708
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 2: possible for you to get around the city without a

1709
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 2: car or whatever. Like that's a state level intervention. That's

1710
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 2: not the sort of thing where like if you give

1711
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 2: everybody an e bike, suddenly Las Vegas makes sense a car.

1712
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: It's also this none of this matts is because Vegas

1713
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: is functioning exactly as as it needs to, which is

1714
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: much like the tech industry.

1715
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 3: You're trapped within the product and you'll follow its fucking rules.

1716
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 4: Which is why this is the place where we've pioneered

1717
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 4: the you know, most innovative and transformative form of public

1718
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 4: mass transit, which is human driven. Tesla's in a tunnel

1719
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 4: where you need to have like three people at the

1720
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 4: station to make sure that when the drivers pull up,

1721
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 4: they're not running my car. When I was in that

1722
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 4: have you guys, if you haven't experienced that, go oh

1723
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 4: oh no, no, no, do.

1724
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah yeah, how can you do it from here?

1725
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 4: It's for free? Yeah no, it's like results Resorts World

1726
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 4: or like around the but look for the stations and

1727
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 4: go in anyway, go anywhere and then come back. But

1728
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 4: just experience. It is so stupid, and it's it's such

1729
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 4: a classic example of like of technology for you.

1730
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 5: Know, and and and just I think what you're kind

1731
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,560
Speaker 5: of like hitting on is in technology, like this fundamental

1732
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 5: frustration that I have and probably other people knows as well,

1733
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 5: is like you know, everybody's going after like the flashy

1734
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 5: like AI for example, like the thing that attracts shareholder

1735
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 5: excitement or whatever. But there's all these like structural things

1736
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 5: like I want to pay less for cloud storage, Like

1737
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,799
Speaker 5: I don't want every photo I take to hold me hostage.

1738
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 5: Somebody should figure out how to like compete.

1739
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 3: With Google Photos or or like Handwest storage.

1740
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 5: Like yeah, like nobody's nobody's doing the unglamorous shit that

1741
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:46,120
Speaker 5: needs to be fixed because there's this other shiny thing.

1742
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 3: And what's the rock com bubble. It's the fact that

1743
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 3: they need everything to grow it at oh costs and

1744
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 3: they're running out of them, so they're getting crazy.

1745
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 4: Well, and for many years you would come here and

1746
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,480
Speaker 4: people the pitch from a lot of these mobility technology

1747
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 4: kind of companies would be, we are going to move

1748
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 4: past the car. We're gonna we're gonna unlock. It was

1749
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 4: it's weird, you know, it's this weird moment where tech

1750
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 4: and sort of progressive urbanist aspiration there there seems to

1751
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 4: be some alignment around it. And the reality is is

1752
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 4: cars are a structural thing. Yea. And that again, like

1753
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 4: when the more tech solutionism right tries to tackle structural things,

1754
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,760
Speaker 4: the more it's sort of revealed to the lack of power.

1755
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 4: Like we're surrounded by so much technological power, but you

1756
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 4: see sometimes the limits of that.

1757
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:32,719
Speaker 1: But this is actually the principal dichotomy of Better Offline itself,

1758
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 1: which is that you have companies that ostensibly sell the

1759
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,720
Speaker 1: idea that they're fixing problems, but fixing actual problems might

1760
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 1: make them less profitable, and they certainly won't if they

1761
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: start fixing those problems grow forever.

1762
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 3: So CS, Yeah, CS is selling the hype.

1763
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: And I think for and I said this first CS

1764
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 1: was twenty eleven, so back then you could kind of

1765
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: with a straight face believe it.

1766
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 3: You could think the tech industry was going to fix

1767
01:19:58,720 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 3: some shit, right you.

1768
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: Maybe there were more cynical people back then, But back then,

1769
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 1: at least in the media, I was a bit of

1770
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,640
Speaker 1: pr baby at the time. You just were like, oh, no,

1771
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: the tech industry will work it. I was the early

1772
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: days of Facebook. You're like, they're not completely evil. You

1773
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 1: just didn't know at that point. And I think that

1774
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: CES has never really graduated from it hasn't really tried

1775
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 1: to adjust to the fact that I think more people

1776
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: are like, I don't know about the tech people, and

1777
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 1: I have to wonder how CES changes as the result.

1778
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a there's a a weird disconnect between like

1779
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:35,560
Speaker 5: the image that CS puts forth in like what you

1780
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 5: have to then go and try to find as a

1781
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 5: journalist covering it.

1782
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,719
Speaker 2: So what it's putting forth is basically like, here's the future,

1783
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 2: this is what it's going to look like. Is that

1784
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:44,759
Speaker 2: the idea?

1785
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 3: Ideally?

1786
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 5: Do you remember, well, if you're list, they're the CEES

1787
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 5: slogan was all all on and I remember that. Okay,

1788
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 5: so the CS slogan last year was all on, which

1789
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 5: I guess is a play on all in and like

1790
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 5: all the imagery that they had was like extremely obvious

1791
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:03,879
Speaker 5: AI faces.

1792
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's some of the things now I am.

1793
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 5: And so like that set the tone right, like there's

1794
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 5: this obviously like unhinged thing that they're putting forth and

1795
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 5: then you have to go and find things to actually

1796
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:20,360
Speaker 5: be maybe excited about, but that are not that I

1797
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 5: don't know.

1798
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 3: It's over the years just dodging just the made up

1799
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 3: shit and before you would just accept.

1800
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 10: More of it.

1801
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 2: Well that's what I'm trying to sort of figure out.

1802
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 2: How I haven't been to Edward. You went to the

1803
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 2: convention center today, right, Yeah, so you saw like the

1804
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 2: weird stuff. I mean, yeah, it was it was is

1805
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 2: this your first go round to?

1806
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 3: This is my first one too?

1807
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 9: And the convention center was filled with a lot of

1808
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 9: things that exist already without AI. But you had people

1809
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 9: assuring you that they've reached a new level because of

1810
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 9: the Aire.

1811
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've unlocked its potential.

1812
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 9: And I think, like you were saying, I was actually

1813
01:21:57,760 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 9: kind of struck by that because when I was in

1814
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 9: the expo, like you said, there were a lot of

1815
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 9: gazemos and they were talking about a but they wouldn't

1816
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 9: actually focus on the AI like.

1817
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:08,679
Speaker 5: They were in the convention center.

1818
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,879
Speaker 9: They would actually be like, you know, here's a problem.

1819
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:14,680
Speaker 9: Like even that CGM thing which you know, which we

1820
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 9: talked about, which it doesn't work if you're which was

1821
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 9: that one.

1822
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 5: This was the.

1823
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 9: Well they said it was not a CGM, it was

1824
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:23,440
Speaker 9: a healthcare.

1825
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 3: Management continuous glucose mode.

1826
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, continuous say it would great stuff it uh

1827
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 9: so it monitors glucose. It's also supposed to monitor other

1828
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 9: metabolic indexes for you to based off shining uh infrared

1829
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 9: on your skin.

1830
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 4: Right.

1831
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,639
Speaker 9: And here that's an interesting development because it's not invasive

1832
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 9: and you can use it obstensively to monitor things that

1833
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 9: might you know, you might actually have to get a

1834
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 9: medical device. You might have to get something more invasive

1835
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 9: to monitor. But then you you know, you you dig

1836
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:02,599
Speaker 9: a little bit and then you get the other problematic features. Oh,

1837
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 9: we're gonna you know, we're gonna we're privacy oriented and

1838
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 9: we're wards oriented, so we're gonna put it on the

1839
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 9: blockchain and we're gonna tell your insurance company everything.

1840
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: You know.

1841
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 3: It's that differently from the main show, the main LVCC so.

1842
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 4: At the l v C C.

1843
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 9: It just it felt like it was less like here

1844
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:20,599
Speaker 9: is a bit of an improvement or like an issue

1845
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 9: that we want to offer an innovative fix for, whether

1846
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 9: or not you agree with the fix, and here is

1847
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 9: uh this thing that you have that probably works, but

1848
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:33,280
Speaker 9: with AI you can access substantibly more potential.

1849
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:33,799
Speaker 3: The more craving.

1850
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 5: That's that's a function of you know, l v C C,

1851
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:43,759
Speaker 5: especially Central Hall being like that's where the big companies are, LG, Samsung, whatever,

1852
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 5: whereas uh, you know, Venetian is kind of these smaller

1853
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 5: companies and so uh in South Hall even to some

1854
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 5: this is very c S.

1855
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I should be writing and I should explain this.

1856
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 3: I was into the ce S coverage. So there are

1857
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 3: two areas.

1858
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: There's the venetianicks Poet which is connected to the Venetian

1859
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,679
Speaker 1: and the Las Vegas Convention Hole, and there is the Central,

1860
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:07,800
Speaker 1: North and South Hole.

1861
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 3: Excellent time to explain that at the end of like

1862
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 3: the fourth hour.

1863
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, So you know, you have big companies like Samsung

1864
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 5: LG that are trying to show that they are doing

1865
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 5: doing something big and flashy because what they really have

1866
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 5: is like our O LED display is like a bit

1867
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,439
Speaker 5: brighter than it was last year, which again I think

1868
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 5: is cool Like that that makes that makes more difference

1869
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 5: to me than than this like AI stuff that they're

1870
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 5: throwing on top. But that's the stuff that they have

1871
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,640
Speaker 5: to you know, focus on to get what is that?

1872
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 2: I guess like this is maybe that's a naive question,

1873
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 2: but it's not like basically because I feel like if

1874
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: you are pointing this at consumers and you're basically like,

1875
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 2: we solve the dog door, it's better now. It's never

1876
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 2: gonna let in like, you know, a raccoon or like whatever.

1877
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 2: Like you how you keep having like beavers from the

1878
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 2: neighborhood let themselves in your kitchety?

1879
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 4: It just shows up in your house.

1880
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's it's worth clarifying, like this show, despite

1881
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 5: being called like consumer electronics show, it's not for consumers, right,

1882
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,000
Speaker 5: That's what I was going to say. The primary purpose

1883
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 5: of the show historically that's probably true. Now it's still

1884
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 5: is for buyers of technology, for retailers to go around

1885
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 5: and see what they want to put, you know, how

1886
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 5: much they want to buy of a TV or a whatever,

1887
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 5: to figure out what they're going to stock this year

1888
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:34,680
Speaker 5: and so.

1889
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 2: But even in that case, wouldn't if it's for those people,

1890
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't the selling point be the oiled screen is a

1891
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 2: little bit bright.

1892
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:45,719
Speaker 1: He's left one important detail out, which is it's also

1893
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:46,919
Speaker 1: for Conning jennalists.

1894
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:47,639
Speaker 4: Yes.

1895
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 3: No, I was going to get to that continue them.

1896
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 4: No.

1897
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I mean I think in both cases it's

1898
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,560
Speaker 5: kind of like, that's that's a that's a more attractive

1899
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 5: story to tell, especially if you're not you know, it's

1900
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 5: hard at see yes, and a lot of people aren't

1901
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 5: looking at stuff super deep, right, and so they want

1902
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,680
Speaker 5: just the easy story. And so easy story is like

1903
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 5: look at the AI we're putting into our TV versus

1904
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 5: like we made our TV a little brighter. It's just

1905
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 5: not as attractive if you're not really like paying super But.

1906
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: Also it's very hard to write an exciting story about

1907
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 1: something getting slightly better that really.

1908
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense because if it's the idea

1909
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 2: is that you're trying to generate some sort of heat

1910
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 2: around a product, the idea of like, there's just something

1911
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:34,920
Speaker 2: strange about that. I mean, I guess we're probably gonna

1912
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: wind up returning to this often. We were the next

1913
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:42,960
Speaker 2: few days that like, because AI is not real, Yeah.

1914
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 3: Like in a meaningful except anyway.

1915
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that like the idea that you have to in

1916
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 2: order to make this an interesting story. You have to

1917
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,680
Speaker 2: be like, not only is it a better screen than

1918
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 2: it was last year, something that we had like actual

1919
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 2: something that helps you, Yes, something that like in rooves

1920
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 2: your experience. Not only is that, but also we added it's.

1921
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 5: A whole new way to consume television. Yes, when it's not,

1922
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 5: you get it in your home and you're like, I'm

1923
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 5: glad it's brighter.

1924
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 4: So there's two things your intuition that like, this stuff

1925
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 4: is not that stuff that consumers are screaming for it.

1926
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 4: So there's two factors. One is that you know postive jobs.

1927
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 4: Everyone is obsessed with this idea of like people don't

1928
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 4: know what they want until you show it to them

1929
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 4: as a huge factor in a lot of these things.

1930
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 4: The other thing, though, you're right, like a lot of

1931
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 4: this stuff isn't for consumers in a fundamental way in

1932
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:36,760
Speaker 4: that a lot of this is performance for investors.

1933
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,560
Speaker 2: That's the bit that I was curious about. AI is

1934
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 2: for like you're shown out for like the quarter zip

1935
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 2: the v like because they're the ones they care about that.

1936
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 4: You're showing you're on trend, you're showing like there's this

1937
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 4: almost like theater often of like how you position yourself

1938
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 4: relative to your competitors. They have a little boots, you

1939
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 4: have a big but like there's there's all of these

1940
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 4: sorts of things and a lot of them are about

1941
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 4: especially for the kind of earlier stay companies and like

1942
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 4: which happened more in the in the the hype cycles. Right,

1943
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:06,560
Speaker 4: so you tell this a lot, and like you know

1944
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 4: evs and avs and stuff like these title companies had

1945
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 4: no revenue, no business, but they had these massive, massive things.

1946
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 4: It wasn't for consumers because they didn't have anything to

1947
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 4: sell consumers, but they're there and there were years away

1948
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 4: from having something. It's for investors.

1949
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 2: I think all sense with evs, it's like it's hard

1950
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 2: to make a car.

1951
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 4: It's also about about attracting partners from the ecosystem.

1952
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 5: I think also like just to put a finer maybe

1953
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:33,000
Speaker 5: a little more specificity with AI, like AI tends to demo. Well,

1954
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,240
Speaker 5: so if you're a buyer or investor or a journalist,

1955
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 5: like you look at these things and they show you

1956
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 5: for two minutes the canned demos that they have and

1957
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,759
Speaker 5: you're like Oh wow, this is really this is interesting.

1958
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:47,680
Speaker 2: I mean it's only when that Elon's robot can like

1959
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:48,919
Speaker 2: pop and lock.

1960
01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 3: Podcasts.

1961
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 5: Really, it's only when you try to use it like

1962
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 5: in a regular way that you're like, oh, this doesn't

1963
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 5: actually work.

1964
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 1: So I feel like we're entering this like nexus of

1965
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,800
Speaker 1: what happens when you spend ten fucking years in the

1966
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 1: tech industry building it for people who won't use it,

1967
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: by people who don't care, and so you're at this

1968
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 1: point where it's just like selling nothing to nothing.

1969
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 5: I always had this thing with with Google Home, Google Nests,

1970
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 5: where I felt like like like nobody at Google was

1971
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 5: using No, the.

1972
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: Google Home app is like an Escher painting. It's like,

1973
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: oh I need like soon. Durpeachi doesn't use those, No,

1974
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: he does.

1975
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 3: None of these people do. I just and it's funny.

1976
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,120
Speaker 1: We keep done hours of this now and it really

1977
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: keeps coming back to this theme of just everyone going

1978
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: what is this shit?

1979
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:39,480
Speaker 3: You don't know what it is as somebody.

1980
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,800
Speaker 2: Who's like really just like I read about it, but

1981
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 2: I don't consume a lot of this stuff. Our apartment

1982
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 2: is effectively in two thousand and five and probably always

1983
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:50,560
Speaker 2: will be. But there's a lot of the I remember this,

1984
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 2: especially with a lot of the like the metaverse stuff

1985
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 2: on Facebook, uh huh, where there's a part of it where,

1986
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 2: you know, like Zuck coming on with this fucking perm

1987
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 2: being like if you ever wanted to do it, attend

1988
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 2: a meeting on your computer, and it's like I do

1989
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:06,720
Speaker 2: it all the time, dude. It sucks ass, but also like, yeah,

1990
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 2: it's like totally possible, Like I don't need to be

1991
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,560
Speaker 2: like a plush bear when I do it, you know,

1992
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 2: like a legless bad but there is a legless kind

1993
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 2: of like weirdly sad looking sorrowful eyes thirty minutes at Freddy's. Yeah,

1994
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 2: but like to me with that, it's like, so where

1995
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 2: did you get this idea? Because like, I don't know what,

1996
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 2: Like Mark Zuckerberg's life is very different from mine, obviously.

1997
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: No, No, it's someone making up what they think happens.

1998
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: It really is that simple. They're just like, what the

1999
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: fucking people do?

2000
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 3: People have jobs, right, they got cats, So that means

2001
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 3: meetings when you have a job.

2002
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: What happens at job if you're a CEO of a

2003
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:51,639
Speaker 1: multi trillion dollar company, meetings if you don't do any

2004
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 1: real work, that's what you think work is.

2005
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:57,040
Speaker 5: But so your younger eyes on meetings as a CEO

2006
01:30:57,240 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 5: and then you're like, what if I just became a bear?

2007
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is it's also important. This is why it's

2008
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 4: important to pay. Like the attendees are as much a

2009
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,559
Speaker 4: part of the shows as exhibitors, and and it's because

2010
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 4: they like listen to what people say, listen to. It's

2011
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 4: really fascinating because there is this core around you know

2012
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 4: of people who are on this tech business who are

2013
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 4: like conditioned, and part of their identity is to assume

2014
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 4: that anything new that they see at sees is good

2015
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 4: and better and something that they can buy and then

2016
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:28,519
Speaker 4: get social capital out of saying, you know, I have

2017
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 4: this and you don't. I'm on the cutting edge and

2018
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 4: more on the cutting edge than you are. Like this

2019
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 4: is a really important part of our culture now is technology.

2020
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:39,439
Speaker 4: And and what's fascinating here is you know, we were

2021
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 4: talking earlier about how the vibe is changing around tech

2022
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 4: right like like ten years ago, fifteen years ago, like

2023
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 4: attitudes towards this were very different. There still are these

2024
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 4: people who are stuck in that old like sort of

2025
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 4: tech is all unconditionally good, it's all progress it's all

2026
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:56,679
Speaker 4: making things better.

2027
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 2: And you're there tomorrow they're going to see.

2028
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 4: Wow, these people a lot of cyber trucks in the

2029
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 4: parking line.

2030
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:04,880
Speaker 3: So we sadly at the end now then we're letting

2031
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 3: you go listeners. Jared Human, Where where can people find you?

2032
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 5: Go to Jared Newman dot com, Slash Newsletters and I

2033
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:14,639
Speaker 5: will give you some great tech advice all the time.

2034
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 3: Miss the need of mile. Where can people find you?

2035
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:20,440
Speaker 4: Needermeyer do Io and the Atonic Cast, Misterrongreso, jr.

2036
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 9: Uh tech Tech, Bubble dot Substack dot com, and then

2037
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 9: Big black Jack have been on Instagram, I mean on Instagram,

2038
01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:30,679
Speaker 9: on Blue Sky and Twitter.

2039
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 2: Mister defector dot com is the website. Distraction is the

2040
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:39,040
Speaker 2: podcast I do with that? It's Christmas Town is the

2041
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 2: Hallmark podcast. And I'm also David Jroth Blue Sky. I

2042
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 2: should actually check how that's punctuated. It's hang on. Everybody's

2043
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,120
Speaker 2: gonna learn this. Hold on just a moment. I have

2044
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 2: to get my phone out.

2045
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 3: I have to think of like a slightly sardonic way

2046
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:55,599
Speaker 3: to refer to myself.

2047
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, David Jroth dot bsky dot Social.

2048
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 1: Go into Google, take the biggest idiot in tech and

2049
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 1: I pop up. Not really, I'm the smartest man in

2050
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 1: tech exitron. I'm the first person to wear aviators and

2051
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 1: cover technology. You've been listening to a podcast. He will

2052
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 1: be apologizing for for a while, but you'll be thanking me.

2053
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, everyone, Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

2054
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:31,720
Speaker 1: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

2055
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 1: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

2056
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 1: and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com, m.

2057
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 3: A T T O s O W s ki dot com.

2058
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,800
Speaker 7: You can email me at easy at Better Offline dot

2059
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 7: com or visit Better Offline dot com to find more

2060
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 7: podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really

2061
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:52,720
Speaker 7: recommend you go to chat dot Where's youreaed dot at

2062
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:55,320
Speaker 7: to visit the discord, and go to our slash.

2063
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 3: Better Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so

2064
01:33:58,280 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 3: much for listening.

2065
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 10: Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

2066
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 10: from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com,

2067
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 10: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2068
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 10: or wherever you get your podcasts.