WEBVTT - Ep. 518: Trapping Lynx on the Home Range 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.840 predict any of this. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.480 to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.600 hanging deer stands, or scouting for el, First Light has 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.360 performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.040 it out at first light dot com. F I R 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:40.159 S T l I T E dot com. All right, 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.479 we got more women in here than than normal. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:44.120 By a law. 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:51.159 Normally it's just Krinn. Everybody knows how lame that is. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.200 Today we're joined by probably for the millionth time, Carmen 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.240 van Bianki. How many times have you been on the show. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:00.800 Maybe this is number five? 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.880 Okay, she's our resident wildlife biologist. We've tracked Carmen all 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.800 through her career. Now she's she's a links researcher from 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.840 Home Range. You guys founded Home. 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.280 Range Wildlife Research. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:13.040 Yep. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.319 We've participated in all kinds of projects trying to raise 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.680 awareness for your project. We did that thing trying to 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.319 raise up money for snowmobiles, yep. And now you're back 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.600 to give us a report yep. On what's going on now? 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.240 We've been doing a little trapping, but different. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.399 Yeah, you got some beavers today. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.560 We called a raccoon the likes of which man has 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.039 never seen. I don't know what he's doing out in 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:37.400 that cold weather too. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.200 I don't know, he's just yeah, typically he'd be in 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.160 a dentrey somewhere, but he was out in about last night. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.160 There was a spot by there's a spot by this 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.160 rancher's place and there's a hole in the fence where 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.960 kylets are coming through in that raccoon coming through there. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.680 Uh any tutament, guys, I canna tell you something before 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.920 I introduce all our other women. Uh, this rancher is 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.560 telling us how. So we get down there by the 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.040 river by his place, down the river bottom and there's 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.799 dead sheep carcasses. You can't tell what's going on. It's 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.400 just dead sheep. Get to talk to him, and he 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:16.640 had they had in the fall, they had a black 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.480 bear and it's kind of unusual spot for blackbird. They 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:25.240 had black bear come in killed, killed. He kept saying 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:31.200 the bear killed five bucks. Okay. I was like, how 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:32.600 do you know how many bucks? The bear? I thought 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.320 he met like deer then I realized he's talking about 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.120 buck sheep. These these are fifteen hundred bucks. Apiece killed 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.720 five buck sheep, killed a goat, killed a goose. He 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.600 calls fishing game. They're like, if you catch the bear, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.000 go and shoot it. So he tells us if we 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:48.399 see the bear, to shoot it. And you can see 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.640 his track in the ice like he'd been walking on 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.639 a slew since it froze up. Then he says to 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:57.600 this dude, he knows it looks for that tries to 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.600 build stuff out of driftwood. And that guy is sniffing 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.600 around this big driftwood pile down on the bank, and 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.120 he finds the bear hiding in the driftwood pile the 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.480 other day. So he tells me and Seth to go 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.760 in there and look in that driftwood pile. And we 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.880 haven't gone and looked yet, and he said, he said, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:16.760 he told me I'm scared to go looking there, but 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.519 if you guys go looking there, then I'll call fishing 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.519 game and you can get the bear. I'm like, I 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:26.440 think I'm gonna have to personally speak with fishing I 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.880 have to have a personal conversation with fishing game before 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:34.640 follow through with this plan looking through this, but we 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.000 looked at that log jam today, talked about having to 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.880 look down in there, and we haven't gone down there 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.800 and looked yet. Were hundred yards. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.400 From When you say hidden and there, you mean like, yeah, it's. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.360 Denn up in that log jam? I know, how do 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.440 you know what bears what? That's what I'm saying. It's like, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.840 we're not going to get into that vigilanti justice, but 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.800 I am going to go look into that log jam. 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.960 I can't believe you get curious enough to go looking there. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.760 I'm gonna I'm looking tomorrow. 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:01.480 We wouldn't be here right now if we got to 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:02.000 looking in there. 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.640 Yeah, we're already half hour later, we're looking in there. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:05.680 You might not ever heard from this. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.200 Again, weird crunch for time. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:09.840 I couldn't said if I was gonna put a thermal in there, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.400 but I don't think that's gonna work. I'm just gonna 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:12.960 shine a light in there and see if he's in there, 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.520 because I guess it's scared the hell out of this 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:21.560 driftwood guy. I can imagine it was awake in there. Yeah, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.280 so I'm gonna see if he is. Well. It's kind 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.160 of a weird little spot. I don't know how much 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.680 I believe it could all be let myth Seth's here, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:36.440 Doctor Randall's here, Jen Lewis from FHF is here, and 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:43.560 Jen Lewis's daughter, Brooklyn Stevens is here, and Brody Henderson now, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.400 Brooklyn's here for a very special reason, because you have 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:51.320 recently got yourself into the skull cleaning business. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:51.919 Yep? 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.479 How many? How many schools did you clean this year? 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:56.799 Probably around twenty or thirty? 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.120 Are you serious you did that many? 0:04:58.279 --> 0:04:59.239 Yeah? 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.280 Ok, huh? You got interested in tax How old are you? First? 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:03.479 Off? 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.560 Seventeen seventeen? What got you interested in taxidermy? 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:07.080 Oh? 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.839 I show him my first dear. I walked into the 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.279 text urmy shop and it just felt like home. I 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.320 like creating or like saving other people's memories, so uh huh, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:17.159 I thought would be fun. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.680 Oh wow, And what do you have done with your 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:20.120 first dear? 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.880 Just a europe amount? 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:23.719 Oh and then you got it back and thought I 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:24.479 could do that better. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:24.880 Yep? 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.400 What are your your How are you cleaning them? 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:31.560 I just boil them and then bleach them. 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.559 Okay, and then but you did it, but you didn't. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.520 But here's why it was such a careful job you did, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.160 because the sinuses are still good. 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:41.039 Yeah. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.320 I usually wind up taking a drill bit and just 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.520 like I get yeah, I get a little burned out 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.479 on the whole thing, and eventually I wind up running 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.239 a drill up in there to get all that garbage 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.120 out of there. Cut cussy that again, the job you did. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.160 So Brooklyn's holding the buck that I brought to her. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.520 This year old warrior a little a little war here, 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.880 he broke his beam off. So how do you how'd 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.520 you get that so clean? Boiling it? What'd you do 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:08.920 to eventually get it out of there? 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.039 I sit with it for hours and hours, and I 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.040 just pick on it with dental picks. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:15.400 That's what you're using. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:15.880 Yep. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.240 Do you do any pressure washing every now and then? Yeah? 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.840 I try and pick off all the meat though it's nicer. Yep. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.320 Well, gradient senior in high school? You're senior in high school? 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.039 What are you gonna do when you finish high school? Tax ermy, 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.840 you want to you want to go into taxi? Durm 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.360 how much you're charging for a skull like that? Deer 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.360 and one sixty for looks amazing? 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:37.960 Thank you? 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.200 That's a good price. See you're gonna think I'm lying 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.960 if I told you I've never seen a uh like 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:48.480 a boiled skull turn out like that. Really never Brody. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:50.279 It's good, it's great. 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.719 I ring you Brody. I bring Brody because Brody boils 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.360 up some skulls. That's the work art, Brody. 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.640 Yeah, it's it's really white, looks great. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:06:59.279 Thank you. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.880 Yeah. I did fifteen this year and I went four 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.120 or five past my limit of patients. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.440 You're not an aspiring skull cleaner, not an inspiring do. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:12.800 You pressure wash yours? 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.320 I have, man, but I've seen that blow them apart. Yeah, 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.800 especially like after they've been like if you really got 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:19.520 to boil them. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.000 For a while, so you pick all the meat too. 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.360 Yeah, but I mean, like she was saying, it's really 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:26.640 just the nooks and crannies. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.800 You do it the right way. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.440 I have currently two deer skulls sitting in my garage, 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.280 one one that my wife killed, one I killed, and 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.880 it's like gotten to the point where all the ship 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:38.960 is like dried on there. 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:40.800 It'll never look right. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.800 Yeah, brook On, are people bringing you these with the 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.360 hide on them or they skin in them? 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:48.440 That's what I want to ask. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.640 Do you think do you think the ones that do 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.320 you think they turn out better when they're unskinned or 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:55.200 they've been skinned. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.880 It depends. The ones that are unskinned do come out 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.400 I think better. But the ones that are skin I 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:03.440 can get it good too. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.840 She just did a big ram, a big deadhead ram. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.360 Are you serious? Yeah? From where I don't know. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.160 The lady bought it from the FWP. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.280 She bought it the auction Yeah huh, and brought it 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:21.080 to you. What condition was it in Turkey? It was 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.280 really all dried out? Yeah? 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.680 Oh, so you'll mess around with dried out stuff that's 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:26.680 not You. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.680 Charge more if they don't skin it. You're in luck. 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.240 Time to skin something. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.880 So see, I always think I'm doing people to favor 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.800 When I skin it and pluck the eyes. 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.079 Out, it's nice, but I don't wand skinning. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.320 So they'll bring you a hair on head, lower jaw. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:46.280 Their eyes there all desiccated, dried out, and you charge 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.360 them the same amount of money. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:47.680 Yeah. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.480 Do you have a paide set up for your business? No? 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.160 I just have Instagram and the Gmail. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.200 How do people find you to bring you some business? So, so, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:06.000 folks that are listening, Jen Lewis and Paul Lewis Paulus 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.480 has been on the podcast a number of times from 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.680 that FHEF and this is their youngster. So how do 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:12.760 people find your business? 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:14.880 Either on Instagram or word of mouth? 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.400 No? But how like what do they what do they 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:16.880 type up? 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:19.400 Four h six bone Works? 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.520 Four h six bone Works? Do you ever think about 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:22.360 getting a beetle room? 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:24.600 No? I don't want to mess with beetles. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.679 That's that's a smelly business right there. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:27.760 I want to get into. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.360 You'd have to get your own house probably if you're 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.280 gonna get in. The man, that is a smelly business. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.640 I looked into it. You can order those beetles from Amazon. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.280 Yeah, at you can find them on the roadside. I 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.319 didn't know that Amazon sold them, but you find them 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.240 on the road side. So you're gonna stay with boiling Yeah, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.040 but you're gonna go to taxa during me school? 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.000 I don't know. I like YouTube? 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:50.520 Oh you like doing it that way? 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.120 Okay? YouTube university? Are you going to get into like 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:57.560 shoulder mounts or yeah? Nice? So you're going you're going 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:58.240 all in? 0:09:58.760 --> 0:09:59.160 Yeah? 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.000 So fours bone Works yep. And you'll clean people's skulls 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.760 and do that immaculate. Did you do that nice job 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:07.400 because you knew you were gonna use it as a 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.480 piece of sales, and normally you just brutalize them. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:13.719 That's how they all turn out. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.520 They all turn out that nice. Yep, it's impressive. 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:18.640 That is impressive. 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:20.520 One hundred and twenty bucks. 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:21.840 Yep, that's a deal. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:22.840 Have you done any elk? 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:23.600 Yeah? 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.199 What do you get for an ELK? Only forty dollars more? 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:28.719 Three times as big? 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.800 Sort of? I don't like to think, so. 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.920 Though, how did you come up with your pricing strategy? 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.920 Just what pro paane costs? And then a bleach? And 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:39.600 then my time? 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.080 How much are you making any money after all that? 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:43.760 A little bit? 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.280 Did you ever calculate what you make per hour? 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:47.240 No? 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.480 Do you want to or do you not even want 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:49.679 to know? 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.120 Oh? I really want to know. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:55.640 That's a pretty good skull. Now, Listen, I had a guy. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.160 You know what I paid this year? I hesitate to 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:58.400 tell you know what I paid this year to get 0:10:58.440 --> 0:10:59.120 a moose cleaned? 0:10:59.240 --> 0:10:59.520 What's that? 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:01.360 Take a guess? 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.120 Probably two twenty five higher. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:09.840 That would have been nice, three twenty five higher, four 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.680 twenty five higher, Oh my god, nine hundred and seventy five. 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.360 Listen, I had someone doing mo moose gold this year 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.360 six hundred. Kylie dropped it off and I come back 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.440 and there's an invoice for six hundred bucks on my desk. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.600 I'm like, I think they Oh I dropped it off. 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.120 Oh you dropped it off. Yeah, I talked you, I 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.400 talked your text. Everybody mind said, dude, you're third the 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:33.360 way to his shoulder. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.960 Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. I saw the invoice when 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:38.440 I dropped it off, because he gave it to me, 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:38.760 and I. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.199 Was like, never seen anything like that. That was a 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:41.640 big moose. 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.480 So I was like, I'm assuming cleaning the antlers. 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.160 I think I saw you that day because you were 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:47.719 at the shop and. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.079 He had a shock. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.400 Yeah, I just assumed you knew what it was going 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:54.840 to cost. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.679 No, how much would you done that for the problem 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.520 with those is the way they're shape. You can't dip 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.679 them in the tank. Real good. Yeah, process, you'd have 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.920 done it for three. I could have got two done. 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:08.040 Yeah. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.960 What's it called again? Four or six bone works? Four 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.040 or six bone works? Get your skulls clean. You can 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:15.880 do it next year too. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:16.439 Yep. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.160 All right, thanks for coming on and plugging the biz. Yeah, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.000 you're supposed to be in school right now, I am. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:28.000 You're gonna hang tight though. Yeah, she's a links researcher. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.640 Maybe you can fill out when you when you're taxi 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.360 during me slow, you can go chase links on a 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:37.400 snow and bill for these guys. Sounds good, yeah, uh oh. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:38.560 You know what we were talking about the day mean 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.280 Seth had to drive on icy roads and I was 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.280 remembering this story I was telling them, is uh, we're 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.320 talking about what it's real icing to go to pass somebody, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.160 how you're endangering everybody. I remember when I was a kid. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:49.679 I remember so vividly when I was a kid. We're 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.280 driving down the road and this dude comes buy in 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.840 one of those wood paneled station wagons with the cowboy 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.720 hat on it kind of like blows passes in the 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.240 way that made my dad irate, you know, And come 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.760 around a few bends and there's this dude's car wrecked 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.800 and he's standing out in the snow staring at his 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.839 right car. In south of state, he had a guy 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.839 blow past and then later found him up front and crashed. 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.720 We did the same thing going up to a snowbowl. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.880 These kids in the car behind us passed and I 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.240 just gripping the steering wheel and clenching my teeth for 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.480 five minutes. After that, we get up to the top 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:23.319 and there in the ditch. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:28.360 I have I've two separate occasions while I was heading 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.960 to a hunting spot. One this year and one couple 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:37.240 of years ago. I've had Ryan Callahan passed me on 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.040 shitty roads. It's the same situation, but I haven't found 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.600 him in a ditch, but I've had him pass me 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:44.640 on on bad roads. 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.360 Wait till you do, it's all worth it then. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.480 Especially one was this year in the dark. He passed 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.360 me on a just a normal road. Haul on the 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.920 trailer kale. Yeah, I called him. I said, you're gonna 0:13:58.960 --> 0:13:59.760 end up in the ditch. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.520 He doesn't seem like a reckless person. 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.040 He's just confident on snowy roads. 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.520 I guess so, Jen Lewis, you just said handed me. 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:08.040 I'm not going to tell anybody what you just handed me. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.120 Be handing me a new backpack. I did that you're 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.320 working on that I can put I'm not working on 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:13.360 it that, y'all. 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:14.880 Paul is definitely working. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.640 Paul's working on you guys invented the world's greatest duffel bag, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.120 which is not available like that. What's that called the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.040 pit devil? 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:22.800 Dude? 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.800 That is the best. Like, I'm sort of a Duffel 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.840 bag connoisseur. That is the I used to think that 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.960 the best Duffel bag ever made. PATTIGOONI had one called 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.560 the Shuttle Duffel. I have one after they quit making 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.560 it a million years ago. I used to go now 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.000 and then on eBay trying to find a used one. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.680 Is how much I liked it. Yeah, this is the 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.000 new best Duffel bag. 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.400 It's pretty sweet. I think you got the new one 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.520 with the new fabric sailcloth, which is yeah, same fabric 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.720 that they make sailboat sails out of. Oh really yeah, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.920 so highly durable. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.680 Yeah. Paul was messing around with different ones over time. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.360 He gave me one and the baggage handlers would ruin them. Yeah, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.000 I'd send it back to him and be like, no 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.680 baggage handlers ruined it. He finally got a fabric of 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:11.560 the baggage. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.200 Handlers should be like nearly indestructible. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.960 Yea. Some of the material he was using was great 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.120 in real waterproof, but it would get when it gets 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.880 when things get stuck in the baggage carousel. It would 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.120 have braid it because it was kind of catchy. 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.240 Yeah, we're gonna do a few sizes of that. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.880 Well, I hope so, because that needs to be medium, right, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.720 Well he knows, okay, Well, I mean I told I 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.440 told him that's what I think. I think it should 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.080 be medium and there should be small and large. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:38.720 I think that's the direction we're going. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.920 Because that one's a little for carry on. It's a 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.560 little it's a little sketchy. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:43.680 Too big, too small. 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.800 No, no, you could carry it on, but it'd be 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.640 like if you stuffed it two of the gills, you're 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.000 not gonna be able to use it as a carry 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.320 on bag. I'm afraid there's a smaller one and then 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.080 and then a big giant Yeah, I mambo johnbo bag. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.120 Because we had a different bag kind of in the 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.040 works that I think you had, but I think this 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.560 is replacing that, and so there will be a larger size. 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.040 Oh okay, good, good, big enough? 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.000 I mean the guy stuck me in it, so oh 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:08.040 that big? It's big. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.400 Wow, I've seen that. I have a cooler that two 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.200 people can fit in. 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.280 Yeah, I don't know, how would you know? 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:14.520 That? 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.160 It's funny story. I had a buddy of mine who's 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:18.920 a kind of a lawyer. He's like a lawyer, but 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.640 he doesn't do any law dogging. So I'll try to 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.760 do I don't you know, that's a great question. So 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.440 he uh, I needed some paperwork drawn up for like 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.040 a thing I owned with some other like our cabin. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.320 I need this paintwork drawn up. And he's like, I'll 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.280 do it because you just gotta get me a cooler 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.400 for my boat. And he tells me, what's that cooler 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.160 I got sitting outside? Any racer Britney got in it? 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:46.480 One time? 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.000 We were able to I don't know what side they 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.480 I mean for those blue water boats that we'd have 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:53.040 to look it up. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.840 Takes two people to move it. It's like a four 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.360 I don't know eight. I don't know. Two people can 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.680 lay down length wise in it to shut the door. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.320 My body says, I'll do the legal work if you 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.800 get me a cooler for my boat. And I'm like, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.840 that's fine. So he says, this is the cooler I 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:13.000 want and it's a giant, the biggest yettie cool ever made. 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.040 That's not a fit on your boat. Oh yeah, I'll fit. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.200 I get the cooler delared in my house. He comes over. 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.320 It's not a fit on my boat. So I still 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.200 have that thing. Uh, I used to store like bird 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.200 seed and stuff in it and like charcoal. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.359 Yeah, just what it was designed for. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.199 What it was designed for. What else is coming up? 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.840 So that when will that Duffel bag be for sale? 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:39.040 June? 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.720 I think it'll be June. We've got just a couple 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.320 of launches this year. So much New Year came out 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.040 last year in the spring. The rest of our Apex 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.800 Belt system, hydration pack that'll come out in February, and 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.720 then the pit Defell and a couple other small items 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.040 will be coming out in June that I can't talk 0:17:58.040 --> 0:17:58.520 about yet. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.760 Yeah, it's no problem. Un Turkey's all spring in the 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:02.400 Apex Belt. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.760 Did you like it? Kind of a game changer that 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:05.240 it's great. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.080 So the Apex Belt is like what they like. Paul 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.280 calls it like he hesitates to use the term, but 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.199 it's similar to a battle belt. So that's kind of 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:14.640 different words. I don't know what the help. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.639 Yeah, make a tactical like load bearing belt or battle belt. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:23.000 Obviously years of Swat Team he had, you know, a 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.639 similar belt. It's kind of actually what guy him sewing 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.199 is he had to buy a battle belt and he 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.520 was too cheap, so he said, I bet I could 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.040 make one, and that's what got himself. Yeah, so that's 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.760 how he got into sewing, but ended up making belts 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.960 for a few different guys. Obviously we've come a long way. 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.840 This is a three piece belt, so different than what 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:47.439 you would typically find, and it's a structured belt. So 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.560 the other colorways of that product will be launching with 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.600 some accessories like box called pouch, a few other turkey stuff. 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.119 So yeah, you put well, like everything at FHF always 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.160 fits together, so you put the belt on. There will 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.600 be a hybridration bladder that goes on that functions as 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.600 a backpack. There's a fanny pack thing. There's pockets for 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.320 pot calls. There's what I call the morel bag. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:15.400 Yeah, the dump pouch. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.639 There's this dump pouch bag that rolls up to the 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.720 size of like if you make the okay symbol. You 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.520 can't really do that. For a long time, people thought 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.479 you were making a mm hm. Now you remember this 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:27.840 that this was real bad to do. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.840 That's still that's still a thing. It's not listening. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.680 Let me tell you something I don't want a name names. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:33.280 Let me tell you. 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.359 Something, the turkey call incident. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.000 You can tell us the best story I've ever heard. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:38.720 Now. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:43.320 I witnessed it in the height of all the paranoia. 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:48.000 Okay about don't say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.120 We're down in South Carolina and I we're turkey hunt 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.919 and we're on a dirt road that crosses a railroad track. Okay, 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.439 there's a stop sign because it's a rail track. I stop, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.760 and I see a dude stop coming my way in 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.760 South Carolina on dirt roads. I see that he's got 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:12.359 his hand draped over his wheel, holding a turkey diaphragm 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.720 call to the point where I comment on it to 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:20.840 my fellow passengers, and it's blaze orange and I'm even 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.560 trying to wonder whose call it is. And I'm like, oh, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.000 that guy's hunting turkeys too. He's holding it between his 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.720 thumb and the okay symbol. He's got it the turkey 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.639 call and his thumb and pointer finger, his palm rested 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.720 on the wheel. Some of our camera guys are behind us. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.720 I drive past, he waves, They drive past. Apparently he 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.440 waves too. Later they get all excited that he had 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.240 given them, the white supremacist single symbol. 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.280 Excited because it was a novel, fun thing to witness. 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:55.160 I hope I was like. 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.560 That gentleman Fellas was holding a turkey call between his 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.400 thumb and forefinger, and that is why he had to 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.199 wave that way. During the height of that excitement, too, 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.679 A dude won three. A dude won three, like, uh 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.920 jeopardies mm hm. And so they're announcing that he won 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.560 three jeopardies and instead of going like, when I want 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.040 to do three, I do like, I guess thumb to pinky, 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:22.800 how do you do three? 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.720 Yeah? Yeah, it's a whole plot pointing in Gloria's Bastards. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.160 The yeah, the three or the three. 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.640 Or so he throws a three like he's doing Okay. 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.840 So they're announcing his name third time champion, and he 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:41.720 does this next day in the news White Supremacist. He's like, no, 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:47.040 I think it was I won three times? So what 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.520 was I getting at? Why was I talking about that? 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:56.440 There was uh the pouch. Oh yeah, that has nothing 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:57.200 to do with that story. 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.280 Yeah, you're you're talking about the size of the pouch. 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:06.200 And you I don't know small that if you make 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:11.879 a what was formerly known as an okay symbol. You 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.000 know they still use this in diving. M hmm, some diving. 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:18.360 Some his thumbs up, some is okay. So all day 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:22.520 long and you're like, there's no white surface, white supremacy. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.600 So you make the okay symbol, and this pouch would 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.840 fit like through the okay symbol, but it rolls out 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.320 to be like a I don't know the size of 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.359 an Algeaene bottle. So when you find Morel's, which is 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.480 what I did, undid it and it's the perfect moral 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.840 pouch hanging off your belt, it's really comfortable. And then 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.119 it's got a seat too for turkey hunt. Yeah, like 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.680 I've always been. I've always been a reluctant user of 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.960 turkey vests. This thing is far, far, far better than 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:52.920 any turkey vest I've ever done. And when you sit 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:58.879 down and you open the call pouch outchel pouch, you 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.280 open that out, it kind of opens up, so your 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:04.200 strikers and your pots are sitting right there, your scratch 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.240 pads sitting right there. Then you zip back up. Youn't 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.280 be leaving everything laying out in the woods, which is 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:09.840 my problem. 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:12.240 Oh man, I've left calls laying on the ground, So 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:12.960 many times. 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.800 I remember calling Doug Darren being like, hey man, you 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.680 know that one tree way at the bat, Like, can 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.760 you look onto their front? You go there and learn 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.840 for my stuff. Uh So that's a good deal. And 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:27.680 some of that's out now and some's coming out. It'll 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:29.520 kind of roll out right, Yep. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:32.160 Most of it's out now, just in a couple of colors, 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.320 and then the rest of it will launch in February. 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.960 We've got a box call pouch that's launching, the dump 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.320 pouch that you just talked about, and then a couple 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.639 other small accessories like suspenders. If you really want to 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.880 load it up, you can buy suspenders. But the nice 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.480 thing you can use everything independently. 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:48.040 Oh yeah, and you can tie it into your biny 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:50.760 harness if you want. Yeah, absolutely no, it's a sweet system. 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.360 I use a lot for too. Fishing in the summer, yeah, 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:56.600 wading creeks. 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:58.760 That's definitely what I use it for. So we spend 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:00.800 a lot of time this fall. We went down to 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.640 Sedona and did flyfishing, and I worked the whole time. 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:04.920 And it was great. 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:08.200 You did fly fishing, yep, went I went fly fishing. 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:13.440 I did it. Did that? Anything else we should know about. 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.240 Lots of exciting stuff coming in twenty five, so we'll 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:19.560 probably start leaking some of that out in the next 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:20.400 six months. 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:22.520 Oh, I don't want to show this. Let's say I 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.720 like this would be available, that'll. 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:28.080 Be out in twenty five, right. 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:30.280 Away, in the future. Yeah, all right, thank you for 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:31.120 letting me try one out. 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:31.320 Yeah. 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:31.840 Absolutely. 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:37.080 Do we want to get into this now, krin Does 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.400 it take too long to get into I. 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:41.760 Mean, you can feel free to skip any of the things. 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.960 I'm gonna talk about this because we spent a bunch 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:45.879 of time on this talk about already we got in 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.359 a big old argument. Yeah, this will be the end, 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.040 this will be We're gonna have to bring back that song, Kriinn, 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:54.200 we've done beat this horse to death? 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.359 Are you going to bring Col's email? While you're at it? 0:24:58.480 --> 0:24:59.160 Cal's email? 0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:00.120 I remember he got all. 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:04.919 We're talking about this. So we got a little bit 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:07.120 of a fight here in the studio one day about 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:11.600 the Ornithological Society's decision to rename sixty birds. I felt 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:16.560 was obsessive in a in a in a media grab. Nowadays, 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.880 it's like you just give a quick recap. Nowadays, it's 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:23.280 bad form. Have you ever named a species or been 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:27.439 involved in naming a species. Carmen, No, no, well, but 0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:29.520 it's not like you think, like I know people that 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:31.800 have got to name them because you know, they split 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.119 so much in taxonomy. If you worked with invertebrates or 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:37.360 catfish or something, you get to be involved in all 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:40.320 kinds of species naming because everybody's like, you know, you 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.119 go down to South America and everybody's like, oh, you 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.800 know that little brown catfish. Then one day you go 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.760 to another river and you realize that whatever, yeah, yeah, 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:53.520 this one has eight rays on its tail. But next river, rover, 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:55.480 it's got nine rays on its tail. Then you get 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:58.960 to name it something new, so that those guys get like, 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:02.720 if you were in Beatles, you'd be naming something every day. 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:06.040 Naming worms in South America you probably name one every day, 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:08.320 But in your business of the cat business, you probably 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:09.919 don't stumble across the whole hell of a lot of 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:16.720 new cats. Uh. So it used to be that you 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:20.639 name stuff your last name, and then the sample we 0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:26.080 always use is stellar. So Steller has the Stellar Sea Lion, 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:32.960 Steller's j Steller's Eagle. He just ran around naming everything 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.159 after himself. Turns out I didn't know this. He was 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.879 a hell of a nice guy. Uh and also is 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:42.520 very that's not true Randall's laugh And I don't know 0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:44.720 if he's a hell of a nice guy. He's got 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:49.840 a random Will you not laugh if I say he's 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:52.520 got a hell of a resume? No, keep it straight face, 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:56.480 hell of a resume. And also, really, here's the clip, 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.680 here's the here's the here's the kicker. At a time 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.600 of weren't very interested in this, Stella really went out 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.639 of his way to study, understand, and record the life 0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:10.480 ways of Native Arctic peoples. Do you know that I 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:18.280 read the same doc Randall's on fire Day? You know 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:21.320 if you just if you smile, you know these people 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:30.800 won't know listening. Yeah, that's true. Normally Randley used to 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.520 be a good guest. Remember that. Oh I thought I 0:27:33.560 --> 0:27:36.119 thought I was just doing well? There, No, no, this 0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:38.000 is about Remember who was a real good guest that 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.280 we didn't realize was Max. You should maybe get rid 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:43.119 of Randall and bring Max in more often. That's the 0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:44.479 hell of a guest, right there. Have you ever been 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:48.040 in a room in Max? Some maxes I don't know 0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.960 which Max Max? Oh, yeah, he's a great guest. You know, 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:53.639 reinds me of you when you were back, when I 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:58.199 was back a month ago. So it used to be 0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:03.000 common to name things after oneself. That that has fallen 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:06.040 out of favor. So what these guys at the Ornithological 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:08.880 Society are doing is they're saying the hell that they 0:28:08.920 --> 0:28:13.560 want to rename sixty some birds to eliminate anything offensive 0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:18.440 and eliminate anyone's last name, so the stellars j would 0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:21.160 become you know that one purple J or you know right, 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:23.080 just get rid of it. And this guy wrote in 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:26.119 who's actually involved in naming a species? And he this 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.240 guy's like, listen, none of this matters different than calch. 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:33.320 He's interested in it as an intellectual exercise. But he's 0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:37.760 a researcher. What's he work on. He's a taxonomist bees, 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.800 and he works on native bees. Now let me ask you, guys, 0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:47.880 are true or false? The honey bee is no native? False? 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:48.240 False? 0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:55.920 Is that wild? He works on native bees and deals 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:58.960 in which means he deals in the nomenclature of native bees. 0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:02.800 And he says, I want to start off by saying 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.880 that the push to not name new species after people, 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:10.520 even ones who aren't well known, like Stellar, etc. Is 0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.480 one that's very strongly felt in the scientific community at 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:16.760 the moment. And I've been questioned a couple times on 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:19.120 some of my species names by people who didn't like 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:24.240 the fact I was naming them after folks, presumably not himself. 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:27.120 I had a friend that got to name some catfish 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.440 species in South America, and she named them all after 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:37.240 the indigenous tribes in that area, which is reasonable, He 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:40.400 points this out. He says, but it's important to note 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.960 that the changing of names after the fact is unheard of. 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:51.240 There remains to this day a species of beetle named 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:59.160 after everyone's least favorite Austrian painter. And how would you 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.440 pronounce that, Carmen, Oh, god, you're asking me. Yeah, you're 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:03.680 probably good on Latin. 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:07.160 School. 0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:07.760 What'd you say? 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:10.040 I would say, hitler reiah. 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:11.800 No, no, no, no no, the first word. 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:18.040 Oh, and of Thalmas. 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:25.040 Hitlerai Hitlarai. So here we are. He's got a beatle 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.680 named after him. Uh, And he says, which stands as 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:31.000 a testament that scientifically, we don't change names for any reason, 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:35.120 no matter how offensive. It's worth noting this is him 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:37.800 still talking. It's worth noting However, with this whole situation 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:44.160 that the Ornithological Society is in trumpiann ot all Capital 0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:49.800 is not the authoritative body on nomenclatural acts of animals. 0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:53.560 That is solely the domain of the Board of the 0:30:53.680 --> 0:31:00.720 i c z N, the International Code of Zoological Omenclature. 0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:05.640 They are not changing the actual names of these birds, 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:10.000 but they're changing their own meaning the Ornithological Society. They're 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:13.560 not changing the actual names of these birds, they're changing 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:17.840 their own suggestions for common names, which is fun, as 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.959 the person writing in then editorializes and says, which is 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:27.640 fundamentally meaningless. It would be the equivalent of pheasants forever 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.640 deciding that they're going to call the bird the American 0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:37.400 ring necked pheasant. So okay, right now, if you look 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:38.560 up a pheasant right now, you know, do you know 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:41.959 what the pheasant is called? Chinese ring neck face? Its 0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:45.320 official name is the Chinese ring necked pheasant. He's saying, 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:47.680 the pheasants forever could one day say from now on, 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:52.120 it's the American ring neck pheasant, Like, oh, you'll you'll 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:55.800 find this interesting, Brooklyn. I got sick of people calling 0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:58.240 skulls European mounts because I just didn't see what's so 0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:04.800 European about it? Like Native Americans used cleaned up skulls 0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:07.280 in the Sundance seapoint, did they called a euro amount? 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:13.280 They didn't. So I started calling them freedom mounts in 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:17.720 memory of when we had to reban French fries during 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:20.960 the Iraq invasion because the French didn't want us. The 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:26.960 French thought that that was not a good idea, stupid, 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:32.320 That was how dumb they were, and so in retaliation 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.760 they proposed that French fries become Freedom fries, and then 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.600 I think promptly went back to French fry after that debacle. 0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:43.400 Uh So, he says if the if the pheasants forever 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:44.800 all of a sudden came out and said, hey, you 0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:47.160 know what, we're gonna call it the American ring neck pheasant, 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:49.800 the rest of the world would be like, call what 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.000 you want, buddy. At the end of the day, it's 0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:59.920 still Phasianus cole chicus. He says this is a sense 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:03.760 especially true for birds like Steve's favorite Stellar's j. The 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:07.680 Ornithological Society can change the name to the anti Stellar's 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:14.160 J all they want. The species name will still be 0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:20.000 Cyan Nordica stellary which means that Stellar's j remains the 0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:23.800 technically correct name, and if I've been paying attention to trivia, 0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:27.800 it seems being technically correct is Steve's favorite kind of correct. 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.040 He goes on, Overall, this move by the Ornithological Society 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:36.080 seems strange to me, as someone whose literal job is 0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:41.160 to assign and assess the validity of species names once 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:46.000 in place, provided they remain valid. Scientific names never change, 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.440 no matter how offensive, and they certainly don't prevent people 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:54.160 from entering the scientific fields associated with those names. So 0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:57.720 the suggestion that some birds may feel excluded by the 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:01.280 fact that a J is named after Stellar holds about 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:07.800 as much water as changing its common name does. Dirk 0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:10.560 and also our beloved friend Pat Dirkin, also wrote an 0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:14.440 article about that covers on the changing of bird names 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:17.800 and also gets into mainly focuses in on a movement 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:21.160 this is this is gonna sound like a joke, but 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:26.320 it's not a movement to coin the term bob kitten 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:33.160 for a bobcat kitten. There's even a there's even like 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:37.840 a change dot org petition, and he tracks how the 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:42.279 media has picked up on bob kitten, which really, I 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:47.839 guess irritates the hell out of bobcat researchers. So watch 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.840 out for the word bob kitten. You ever throw that around? No, 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:53.799 you ever heard it. Pat might be trying to make up. 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.040 Pat might be doing that thing they do on Fox 0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:57.600 a lot, or they take a thing that isn't really 0:34:57.640 --> 0:34:59.200 a thing but make it like it's a big thing 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:00.480 to be worried about. M hmm. 0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:02.200 I read the article. It seemed legit. 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:05.000 You'll think pass doing that. No, he had a lot 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:07.720 of cases of people trying to say bob kit. Pat 0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:19.840 does not like that one bit. This is up in 0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:21.360 your neck of the woods, Carmen, you're ready for this 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:29.040 news item? Yeah, US government wants five hundred thousand barred owls. 0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:32.400 Cold cal told me this, and I thought that cannot 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:34.200 be true. But I didn't know that bard owls aren't 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:38.120 native to the Pacific Northwest. No, No, those dudes are 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:39.359 everywhere now. 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:42.840 Yep. They're kind of like white tails. They can just 0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:47.319 creep on in and they they do better and can 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.120 out compete spotted owls. 0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:52.799 Yeah, remember the ones at the fish Act. 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.720 Yeah, I never ever at our fishack in Salt East Alaska. 0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:00.160 Never heard them. They're up there ripping all spring of there. 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:01.880 It makes some freaky noises. 0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:07.840 Seth will show you do it, Seth, they do the Yeah, 0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:11.040 well do the main one. 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:14.600 There's a screechy, screaming one too, then. 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:18.359 Seth can rip it. They say. 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:20.520 They sound like a pack of monkeys sometimes, like up 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:21.040 in the trees. 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:23.160 I had no idea they weren't from around. I mean, 0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:26.080 I feel like, like, just anecdotally, if you just said 0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:28.360 to me, do you hear more barred owls than you 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:30.719 used to? I would have said, like, definitely, Yeah, But 0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:32.879 I never ever knew that they weren't from there. 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:34.360 Yeah, yeah, they're creepers. 0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:37.800 So this is the news article from this was covered 0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:41.440 in Newsweek. I'm not sure where else was covered. The 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:43.400 US Fish and wild They Service wants more than a 0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:47.719 half million barred owls to be shot dead lively language, 0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:54.400 not just shot my gunfire, not just shot, not just 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:58.759 shot and wounded, shot dead in a coal to help 0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:01.760 protect other native species. These barred owls are an invasive 0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:06.320 an invasive species in the Pacific northwest from the east coast. 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:07.840 That's where I have a question. 0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:08.120 Though. 0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:11.120 If something makes its way there naturally. 0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:11.600 It's not invasive. 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:14.120 It's not like we dumped them there. 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:17.200 Yeah, this brings up a really interesting language thing, and 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:21.080 we've talked about this a million times. That'd be because 0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:25.000 if you move somewhere on your own, are you invasive? 0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:31.239 Because you would never say, like like, possums used to 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:34.520 not extend outside of the Mason Dixon line, but they 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.640 do now. But no one says possums are invasive. They 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:41.440 just moved. Javelinas have gradually moved northward, but they're not 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.480 invasive in the northern end of their range in Texas. 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:48.919 You would never say that humans who move themselves out 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.120 of Africa all around the entire planet, you would never 0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:54.879 say humans are invasive. Some people would, but I get yeah, 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:55.319 you're right. 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:58.359 I think the spirit of it, though, is that these 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:04.000 are species that have have moved into places because of 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:07.440 changes in the habitat and the ecology that that humans 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:08.120 have brought around. 0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:08.759 Yeah. 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:11.440 I get that. That's a good point, indirectly indirect to 0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:16.400 human Yeah, meaning if a monkey hop down a plane, 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:18.960 two monkeys who were in love hop down a plane 0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:24.640 and started a new population somewhere, you wouldn't go, well, 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:27.640 they moved themselves around by hopping out of the plane, 0:38:27.719 --> 0:38:31.759 you would they would be very readily labeled invasive species. Yeah, 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:33.799 so I guess if you're paving the way from them 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:36.319 exactly like how white tailed, like how mild you are 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:40.479 coming into Alaska, they're coming along the highway corridor. Yeah, 0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:44.200 that's a good point. Count back to being mad at 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:45.799 bart I was mad at them, Now I'm back to 0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:51.480 being mad. This is so in areas where bard owls 0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:55.560 are present higher numbers, Northern spotted owl populations are declining rapidly. 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.520 They are now listed as a threat as threatened under 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.799 the Endanger Species Act, with populations having declined to buy 0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:06.560 between thirty five percent and eighty percent over the past 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:10.759 twenty years due to bar owls karma. You do having 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:15.080 to know the karma is not an ALLA biologist. What's 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.200 going on? How are they all competing? Is for nesting 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:19.799 cavities or what are they arguing about. 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:23.120 I don't know the exact mechanism, but when you get 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:25.879 bart owls out of there, if the habitat suitable, you're 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:30.120 getting spotted owls back. And this is Yeah, this isn't 0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:33.759 a new Controlling bart owls isn't a completely new thing. 0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:38.080 I've got a wonderful friend and colleague and she's a 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:43.000 great biologist, total badass, and she her job for a 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.839 long time was going out hunting bart owls at night. 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:47.640 That's the question shooting to kill? 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:51.000 Yep, that's a quick question I had about this whole thing, 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:54.640 because they're planned to kill half a million. 0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:57.560 Over Actually we should point out here, Yeah, it's over thirty. 0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:01.160 Years, right, because it's like gonna go out and shoot 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:03.400 a couple of hundred of them at night. They're like 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:06.279 what I read is they call them, they use you 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:06.880 know whatever. 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:09.960 Theremore and Clay could have got four or five in 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:11.320 Florida calling. 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:13.759 Right, but four or five a night. 0:40:14.000 --> 0:40:18.680 Two dudes like going to take that good math. I know, 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:23.640 if we get to five hundred thousand, it just yeah, 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:25.879 do you know who's who's going to do it? They're 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:26.359 going to do it. 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:29.040 Themselves, the government. 0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:31.720 Like citizen shooters. 0:40:31.800 --> 0:40:33.719 I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean, 0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:37.319 you you know, you want to trust somebody that they're 0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:41.360 good at their owl id Right, they're. 0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:48.239 About horns, got the northern spots like every owl I saw. 0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:50.800 It's a it's a careful operation. 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:56.640 Uh. Long time ago we were having uh we were 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.920 covering this thing in the news it was it the 0:41:00.200 --> 0:41:02.399 this involves Dirk and has to do with like whether 0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:04.960 you could ever give someone You could ever say to someone, 0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.480 kill bar owls, but don't kill all the other owls. 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.000 But think about what you're saying. Though we were laughing 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:14.200 about their inability to do it. How come you can say, okay, 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:21.959 you can get seven drake mallards, two hen mallards, one 0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:33.279 hen northern pintail, no scop but on and on some 0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:36.719 canvas backs, but no scoffs, redheads, okay, right, Like people 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:42.000 are capable of some pretty specific identification. We were covering 0:41:42.000 --> 0:41:45.040 this push where they're trying to get in Wisconsin northern 0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:48.000 pike spearing legalized. I had no idea until this happened 0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:50.719 that you couldn't spear a pike in Wisconsin. And they 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:52.759 were like, well, anglers won't be able to tell the 0:41:52.800 --> 0:41:58.600 difference between a northern and a muskie. Dirk and rolled 0:41:58.600 --> 0:41:59.680 it in and be like, well, how can you be 0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:04.800 trust to tell the difference between you know, a sharp 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:07.160 tail grouse and a greater sage grouse and a hen 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:09.160 pheasant and the male you know, on on and on, 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:11.560 or all the duck stuff you're trusted to tell the difference, 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.880 but you can't trust tell the difference between these two fish. 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:16.920 And someone rode in to say, you don't know how 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:21.440 drunk these people are and talking about the ice fisherman 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:26.200 in Wisconsin. So we'll see what happens there. 0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:32.400 Yeah, I think that. I mean, I got I have 0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:35.160 lots of thoughts about invasive species control and all that, 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:39.840 and I think it's I'm not an invasive species manager, 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.400 but I can appreciate what a difficult job that is 0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:48.880 because on the one hand, you know, crowdsourcing this or 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:52.399 using you know, the community to help out, I mean, 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.200 that's that's an obvious way to get more shit done. 0:42:57.239 --> 0:43:01.080 But you're weighing all these other things. You're saying, Okay, 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:06.359 what are the consequences of, like government sanctioned hunt where 0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.000 we've got people out at night who are not just 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.440 telling two birds apart, but trying to tell an evasive 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:16.840 species at night from spotted owl, which would be a 0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:17.560 big bummer. 0:43:18.880 --> 0:43:20.480 How big is the spotted owl? Same size? 0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:23.240 Not the same size? Yeah, I mean, they're not wildly 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:28.000 different creatures, you know, it's it's a that's a higher risk, 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:30.640 and when you've got a population of owls that is 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:33.759 is really low like spotted owls. You want to make 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:34.919 sure people are getting it right. 0:43:35.120 --> 0:43:44.120 Got it. You're pro big government. Here's a good SEGUEU. 0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:47.520 What's the most ready way can you be? In a 0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:49.839 links researcher, you have to have a lot of people 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:52.719 who tell you they saw links. Yes, and it's a bobcat. 0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:53.520 Yeah. 0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:56.120 I was dogging on my sister. I was dogging on 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.160 camera guys a minute ago about that dude holding the 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:00.000 turkey call. So I don't want to dog on them again. 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.279 So I'll tell you that I can't remember what type 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:06.600 of person does happened to. There's one of these types 0:44:06.600 --> 0:44:10.200 of people. I can't tell you what type. Swear always 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:12.359 swears me up and down about the links he saw 0:44:13.040 --> 0:44:15.600 and just by where it was. I'm like, no, you 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.759 just didn't. It had toughs on its ears. I'm like 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:21.359 it did, but not that kind. 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:26.880 The way I handle that is I hate bursting people's bubbles, 0:44:26.880 --> 0:44:29.240 and so I try to do it pretty gentle. Plus, 0:44:30.040 --> 0:44:33.760 links go weird places, and when there's invasions of links, 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:36.200 or one has gotten kicked out of its its own 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.440 home range because it's an old links or whatever, they 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:39.880 end up in strange. 0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:41.680 But they do. Oh yeah, so maybe this guy's right. 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:45.400 There's always a chance, And so I will usually say something. 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.360 Like, I know you're out there. If you took offence, 0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:48.080 i'd take it back. 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:52.080 I would say something like for where that was, I 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:55.880 would be very surprised. But links go weird places, you 0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:57.520 never know. So that's pretty. 0:44:57.160 --> 0:45:01.120 Cool, that's what you'll say. Yeah, you'll throw them a 0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:01.680 little bone. 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:05.160 Yeah, yeah, And because I keep the dream alive exactly, Yes, 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:06.520 I don't want to be a dream smasher. 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:10.000 I've laided my eyes on one LINX. I know it 0:45:10.040 --> 0:45:12.120 was a link because it was in the Arctic. 0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:13.760 Yes, that's pretty solid. 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:16.479 It was just on the south slope of the Brooks Range. 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:21.279 It stepped out into the pipeline road and twenty feet 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:27.440 off the bumper, and it was like looking into another planet. 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.719 It was the first links I saw. I'm convinced I 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:33.120 was the first person it saw. It looked at me 0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:37.520 with like uttered, like disinterest, but also no sort of 0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:41.520 preconceived notion of what that I might be trouble as 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.920 I opened the door and then he just walked off. 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:46.120 Never that has on another one. 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:47.680 That's pretty special. 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:49.399 How many people for the one? 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:49.759 Yeah? 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:51.160 I don't know if I'll get to see another one, 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:52.360 but that was the one I saw, and it was 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:54.799 it was like they have a face like it's like 0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:56.280 they have a human baby face. 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:58.440 That's funny. I always say they have an old man 0:45:58.520 --> 0:45:59.919 face the same. 0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:04.279 You know, Phil lost it. It was one of my 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:09.880 favorite things I owned. Phil lost it. I used to 0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:12.440 have responsibility. I used to have this quote. It was 0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:14.680 framed in our old studio. You might have read it. 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.520 It was a guy talking about on seeing his children born. 0:46:17.600 --> 0:46:19.480 It was an Irish writer talking about and seeing his 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:24.479 children born that when they come out, how ancient they are. 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.320 And he said, like Egyptian pharaohs, like with their features 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:35.239 smoothed by time, traveled across this immense journey to be here, 0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:39.120 and he goes and then in an instant they become young. 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:42.560 So meaning it can be an old man in a 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:45.000 little baby like a human baby. 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:46.160 The same page. 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:48.239 Human babies come out, they look like crazy old men 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:51.680 for a couple of seconds. What else are you looking 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:54.200 at when you're looking, Just to verify, when someone says, 0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:54.440 oh my. 0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:58.320 God, a Lynx, the feet they got kind of a 0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:01.440 jacked up back end, meaning that their their butts are a 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:02.319 little higher than. 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:05.080 Their Now you say that, that's a good point. 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:09.000 Yeah, and then they're there are tails, so bobcats. The 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:11.600 tip of the of a bobcat tail is black on 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.360 top and the sides and then white underneath, whereas a 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:17.319 bobcat it's like their tail was back or sorry, a 0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:20.560 lynx is dipped in ink like it's black all the 0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:27.320 way around on the tip yet white. Okay, bobcat white 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:31.000 on the bottom links the end of their tail completely 0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:33.000 black all the way around. No white on the bottom. 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:35.360 Oh, I mean if he turned his tail up, yeah. 0:47:35.239 --> 0:47:36.920 Or if you can you can see it from the side, 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:38.879 even on a bobcat, that's that's one of the. 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.760 Under So the underside of a lynx's tail. 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.239 Okay, yeah, if you're saying about a lynx's tail and 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:46.840 there's the tip of it and the top of it 0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:50.640 and sides are are black there, but on the bottom. 0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:51.800 Is white on a lynx. 0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:55.120 Nope, bobcat, you'll get it. You'll get it. 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:58.080 No, I'll get there. Okay, let's start with a bobcat. 0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.759 Tell me about a bobcat's tail. Bobcat's tail and people know, 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.840 just so you know, people, this is helpful people that 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:06.640 send us in photos wondering what they're looking at. 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:08.120 This is a good one for photos. 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.120 Bobcat, it has a It means it's a cat with 0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:12.080 Bob's tail. 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:14.000 Yes, which a links also has a. 0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:17.720 Has a bobtail. So Bobcat's tail looks like this. 0:48:17.760 --> 0:48:20.799 Looks like this black. Okay, we're talking about the end 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:23.160 of the tail, a tip of the tail. It's black 0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:25.640 on top, white on the bottom. 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:27.719 And I wouldn't have been able to tell you that 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:29.279 that mean I've handled him, and I wouldn't be able 0:48:29.280 --> 0:48:31.400 to tell you that's true. I believe I just never looked. 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:34.759 At Yeah, and so even from the side, So if 0:48:34.760 --> 0:48:37.000 you're looking at trail camera pictures and you can see 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:39.520 the tail, this is really really helpful because you'll see 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:42.000 some white on a bobcat. Even from the side, you 0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:43.840 can you can see that the bottom is white, whereas 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:46.799 a lynx, the entire end of the tail looks like 0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:48.600 it was dipped into black ink. 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:52.359 No kidding, Yeah, just funny about links is I want 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:55.920 you to talk about the range of links. But are 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:58.279 you familiar with the comedian Jerry Klower. He's dead. No, 0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:00.279 he was a storytelling He used to get up at 0:49:00.280 --> 0:49:03.040 the Grand Old Opry between musical acts and tell hunting stories. 0:49:03.920 --> 0:49:10.520 Different time. He has a story about a guy that uh, 0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:14.719 he has a story about Some of his characters are 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:18.919 out raccoon hunting that night in Mississippi, Okay, and there's 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:23.680 a guy they're hunting with who won't let anyone shoot. 0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:26.520 He thinks it's disrespectful to shoot a raccoon out of 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.480 a tree. He thinks the only respectable way to do 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.880 it is you got to climb up into that tree. 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:34.920 And Cloward talks about how they their dogs tree a 0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:38.359 raccoon in the quote biggest sweet gum tree of all 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:43.880 of Amax County, and this dude, John new Banks. They're like, 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:45.879 I bet you can't climb up that tree, John, because 0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:47.480 he'll climb them up and knock them out with a 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:49.839 stick and then let the dogs fight him. So he says, 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:53.880 you got to give a coon a sporting chance. So 0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.560 he Cloward talks about how he takes off his brokenne 0:49:57.600 --> 0:49:59.920 shoes and digs his toenails into the bark of that 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:04.040 sweet gum tree and is able to climb into the 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:06.319 sweet gum tree and then all hell breaks Lewis and 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:08.799 Clower says that it was a lynx up in that 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:11.120 tree in Mississippi. 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:16.200 Okay, I'm gonna say no, But here's the name. 0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:19.320 That always bothered me because everything with Klour is so precise. 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:21.359 I think he meant to say a mountain lion. 0:50:21.719 --> 0:50:24.920 You know what. I bet you wasn't because in Durkin's 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:28.400 article he lists a bunch of common names, like semi 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:30.800 common names for bobcats, and there was a couple of 0:50:30.840 --> 0:50:32.200 different versions of Lincoln. 0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:37.200 But Clower says this, but it wasn't no coon. This 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:41.080 is a quote, but it wasn't no coon. It was 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:44.719 a lynx, a souped up wildcat. 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:48.760 I'm just telling you. They had like some Southern Yeah, 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:53.160 it was like vernacular kind of names for that's God. 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:55.560 This was all my faith back into Clower. 0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:59.200 Yeah, you can have that back, because that's one of 0:50:59.239 --> 0:51:02.160 the difficult things about figuring out the historic range of 0:51:02.239 --> 0:51:06.160 Links in the lower forty eight We're relying on trapping records, 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:09.840 and people were not consistent with calling bobcats bobcats and 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:15.200 links links. There'd be Linx cat and you know, yeah. 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:17.759 You'll sometimes look at Mark Ferbear market reports and I'll 0:51:17.760 --> 0:51:21.240 see links cat. Yeah, that means a bobcat or lynx. 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.000 I'm not sure. People, it's this common name thing, right, 0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:25.319 people can call them whatever they want. 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:29.840 Kind of what's the most southern links that's like confirmed 0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:30.440 that you're aware of. 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:36.719 Now, Yeah, Colorado maybe down into Utah every once in 0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:40.360 a while, but like as a resident population Colorado. 0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:43.680 Let's say European contact. Huh, let's say a good stab 0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:47.960 where Oh yeah, like give me a good stab. Okay, Yeah, 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:53.080 so the distribution is it isn't changed. 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:56.640 Remarkably, right, Yeah, we don't think the distribution has changed much. 0:51:56.719 --> 0:52:00.280 It's just how many animals are in those spots. 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.920 Density has changed. Yeah, got it. So they'll follow the 0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:06.600 rock he's down into Colorado, maybe Utah. By the time 0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:09.920 you get into how far into Canada are they across 0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:11.000 the whole top of Canada. 0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:15.120 Not much further north than the border. Oh, across all 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:15.680 of Canada. 0:52:15.760 --> 0:52:16.960 Yeah, you gotta get way up or. 0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:19.200 I no, you don't have to get well wherever there's 0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:21.840 boreal forest, that's what they are. So you know in 0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:26.600 places like Alberta, where there's there's more prairie and stuff 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:27.920 like that, they're not going to be down in that. 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:32.200 But they get pretty ubiquitous in the boreal forest. 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:32.520 Yep. 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:35.640 I've read that the boreal forest is the largest biome 0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:36.200 on Earth. 0:52:37.400 --> 0:52:39.680 Yep. It's a cool space. 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:43.640 Yeah. Uh, lay out the work you work layout where 0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:46.120 in what work you're doing right now currently? 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:51.759 Okay, with just a LYNX project. Okay, So let's see, 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:55.320 we're starting on year two of of our field effort, 0:52:56.040 --> 0:53:02.120 uh for our LINX and wildfire project. So in in 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:04.840 the lower forty eight we were just talking about their distribution. 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:13.040 There's five resident populations of Links. There's Washington, there's Idaho, Montana, 0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:16.560 there's Minnesota and Maine, and then Colorado. 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:22.439 Minnesota has lynks. Yeah you know that Brony I did 0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:23.480 not You got that wrong. 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:26.960 Yeah, are to have the NBA team, isn't it the 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:27.680 Minnesota Lynx? 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:29.040 Yeah? But the Michigan Wolverines. 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:31.440 Dude, but it makes I mean you think about that 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:34.759 North Country stead They got fishers and Martin not a 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:37.120 spruce forest, and they got links there. 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:39.960 Yeah. 0:53:39.760 --> 0:53:44.759 So in Minnesota, don't lie, no, doctor, Ana. I didn't 0:53:44.760 --> 0:53:45.960 even know Maine had them. 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:48.759 Yeah, good population. 0:53:49.880 --> 0:53:51.920 Maine had Caribo until the nineteen twenties. 0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:57.160 There's a I think the furthest North City or town 0:53:57.360 --> 0:54:00.759 Town in Maine is called Caribou. It could be wrong. 0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:05.759 Mm hm, anyway, I don't know that good job. 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:09.000 I want to hear some common Bobcat names. 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:10.080 Bobcat or Lynx names. 0:54:09.960 --> 0:54:15.080 Bobcat well like vernacular names Lynx Rufus. 0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:18.200 Well Link Rufus, scientific. 0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:21.719 Include bay Linx Bard, Bobcat, Catamount, Cat of the Mount, 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:28.200 Lynx Cat, Pallid, Bobcat, red Linx Wildcat, and shot Savage. 0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:30.160 When they get into those lists, I feel like they're 0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:32.320 starting to throw in stuff that some dude said once. 0:54:32.480 --> 0:54:36.319 Yeah, I don't know. I'm just saying Klower was. 0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:39.960 Yeah, I'm back to love and clour. Anyone interested in 0:54:40.040 --> 0:54:42.400 Jerry Klower? Besides listening to Jerry Klower, you could go 0:54:42.440 --> 0:54:47.640 listen to the Bear Grease episodes about Jerry Klower. He's 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:49.719 one of my favorite people. My kids like Jerryklower. You 0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:52.880 never heard Jerry Klower? Go type up? Will you promise 0:54:52.960 --> 0:54:56.520 me something? Type up? Jerry Klower A coon hunting story 0:54:57.800 --> 0:54:59.360 that's the one that has the Lynx cat in it. 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:02.120 All right, Brooklyn track and all this. Yeah, how would 0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:04.400 you get how would you if you had one on 0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:06.560 one to ten? How interesting? This is? What would you give. 0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:07.640 It like six? 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:11.520 All right? 0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:15.960 That's that's a reliable That's what you need around man, 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:18.640 someone that gets it to you straight. Yeah, because you 0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:20.879 can see her being yeah, you can see her being 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:22.719 like oh yeah nine and being in your head like 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:26.560 yeah right, she might have been like three, but I 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:30.759 can't say that. No, it's encouraging. There's room for improvement, 0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:35.400 but we're not as bad as it could be. Yeah right, Okay, 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:37.160 I didn't know that. I mean it's like, like, do 0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:39.080 you have rough ideas? Oh, you were doing the five 0:55:39.160 --> 0:55:42.080 so Washington? Yeah, now why is it not Washington? Oregon? 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:43.760 Organs too far too far south? 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:48.880 So in Washington, our our links range is is interesting 0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:52.920 because we've got the North Cascades. Yeah, and they quickly 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:57.960 start to transition into more southerly forest types. Links rely 0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:03.120 on snowshe hears, there's predator. Eighty five to ninety percent 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:05.560 of their diet is snowshoe hairs. That's what they're built for. 0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:10.040 That's that's what makes them different from from bobcats. And 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:10.799 big part is there. 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:14.960 You sent me the coolest photo of brand new snowshoe 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:18.160 hair tracks. Oh yeah, both of them run. 0:56:19.800 --> 0:56:22.640 Yeah, that is that is their thing is there. They 0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:26.880 rely on snowshoe hairs, and they've snowshoe hairs. Obviously because 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:29.000 of their name. Uh, we all know that they've got 0:56:29.000 --> 0:56:32.080 those big feet and that makes them able to get 0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:37.000 around in these deep snow environments. Links same thing. It's 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:40.840 like the armswar thing. They've they've evolved with big giant 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:46.319 muppet feet and they're they're really light framed and they 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:48.479 can just walk on the snow same way, so they 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:51.680 they're like built to pursue snowshoe hairs and live in 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:56.040 these deep snow environments boreal sub boreal forests. So in 0:56:56.840 --> 0:57:02.680 Washington it's we're in this place where this boreal forest 0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:06.359 is starting to transition into more southerly forests and they 0:57:06.520 --> 0:57:10.400 they so we're right on the range edge of Lynx 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:15.160 because they're habitat's about to just peter out. So we've 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.880 got a naturally small population because of that, because their 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:26.720 habitats just sort of marginal. Now we're getting megafires, which 0:57:26.720 --> 0:57:30.880 are fires that are over one hundred thousand acres. Warmer, drier, 0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:35.720 windier summers, we're snowpack in the winter. We're just having 0:57:35.880 --> 0:57:44.680 more frequent, bigger, hotter, high severity fires, and that is 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:49.480 not good for links because snowshoe hares rely on a 0:57:49.560 --> 0:57:52.440 forest that's got a bunch of branches down low, a 0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:55.280 lot of horizontal cover, so like stuff that you wouldn't 0:57:55.280 --> 0:57:58.760 maybe want to bushwhack through. That's what snowshoe hares love 0:57:59.080 --> 0:58:01.800 because they eat those bras branches, and everybody wants to 0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:05.920 eat a snowshoe hair, So those branches and that understory 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:11.240 gives them some protection from predators. So, because snowshoe hairs 0:58:11.320 --> 0:58:14.720 need that kind of forest, that's where links are. When 0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:17.880 a huge, high severity fire, and high severity means like 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:20.280 it's killing almost all of the trees in that patch. 0:58:20.520 --> 0:58:23.960 When a big fire comes through like that, there's pretty 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:28.600 much no trees left. Its match sticks. And so there 0:58:28.600 --> 0:58:32.080 goes the snowshoe hairs, there goes the lynx. And so 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:35.080 Washington is in this unique place where we are just 0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:40.800 getting hammered by these fires, partially because of our changing climate, 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:42.960 but also because we just have kind of a unique 0:58:43.040 --> 0:58:45.760 and I don't know why this is, but we get 0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:49.800 a ton of lightning strikes and so from starting in 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:53.320 the year two thousand, we just started getting hit boom 0:58:53.320 --> 0:58:57.040 boom boom by these giant fires to the point where 0:58:57.040 --> 0:58:59.520 now you look at a map of Lynks habitat and 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:04.040 it looks like it's mostly burned recently. And so this 0:59:04.680 --> 0:59:06.960 has put a big herd on our links population. 0:59:08.160 --> 0:59:08.760 Oh? 0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:13.120 Absolutely, How many links are in Washington there? I mean, 0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:15.920 no one knows, nobody in thousands? 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:22.760 Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, around sixty maybe, yeah, 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:24.720 it's bad, it's really really bad. 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:28.040 Sixty in the state. And then and I know we're 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.400 a lot of secret, but I when to revisit something Washington, 0:59:31.480 --> 0:59:35.400 and you said Idaho, Montana, Okay, and that that's what 0:59:36.080 --> 0:59:36.880 not thousands? 0:59:38.040 --> 0:59:42.240 Hundreds, maybe hundreds in Minnesota. I don't. I don't know 0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:46.320 about Minnesota. Main is hundreds as well, hundreds. But all 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:47.000 you know, all. 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:49.800 Of these you're the population you're toying with. Is it's 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:50.800 sub one hundred? 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:52.040 Yes, it's We're. 0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:55.040 How certain are you that it's sub one hundred? 0:59:55.880 --> 0:59:56.200 Mmmm? 0:59:56.800 --> 0:59:58.160 On a scale of one to five. 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:03.040 Four and a half. But I like to be optimistic. 1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:04.800 Maybe we've got one hundred. 1:00:05.480 --> 1:00:06.720 But you don't have three hundred. 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:07.960 We don't have three hundred. 1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:10.560 No, no, And if you go back twenty five years, 1:00:10.560 --> 1:00:14.680 how many are you talking about, Like, what's the. 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:18.960 Reasons get really sketchy on estimates. Yeah, it's not a lot, 1:00:19.080 --> 1:00:22.680 it's maybe, Oh, I know, I've read this summer somewhere 1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:26.520 maybe maybe between one hundred and fifteen two hundred. 1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:27.440 Sure, So. 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:32.680 When a fire happens in one of the like the 1:00:32.720 --> 1:00:36.560 snowshoe hair population just gets nuked, is it like an 1:00:36.560 --> 1:00:40.160 immediate precipitous decline for the bobcat, I mean for the 1:00:40.240 --> 1:00:43.840 Lynx or like are they such specialists they can't like 1:00:43.920 --> 1:00:46.000 adjust and be like I'm going to go after squirrels 1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:48.880 or I'm going to go after birds or whatever. 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:54.840 Yeah, So the the I think the answer is it 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:58.360 kind of depends. So when a fire burns. So for example, 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:01.600 two thousand and six was our first big burn. It 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:04.160 was called the Tripod Burn, and it burned most of 1:01:04.200 --> 1:01:06.880 what was considered the best links habitat that we had 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:12.560 in Washington and that let's see, the winter following that burn, 1:01:14.080 --> 1:01:17.320 we started or a Lynx project started, and we got 1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:20.880 callers out on cats that were living right adjacent to 1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:27.040 that burn. And what we found was that it's just 1:01:27.480 --> 1:01:30.360 a habitat. It's a bunch of habitat lost and so, 1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:33.200 you know, we don't know exactly what happened to those 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:36.439 links that we're living right there. Maybe they dispersed, which 1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:40.760 that's you know, that's a dangerous thing to do because 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:42.720 you might not find another home range. Maybe they went 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:44.840 up to Canada and found something. Who knows, but that 1:01:45.120 --> 1:01:47.200 becomes largely unusable habitat. 1:01:47.200 --> 1:01:50.600 Presume a lot burn up, right, I. 1:01:50.040 --> 1:01:53.800 Think less animals burn up than we think, really. I mean, yeah, 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:55.520 I mean you were able to. 1:01:55.440 --> 1:01:57.480 But like take something like pine squirrels, there's no way 1:01:57.560 --> 1:01:59.000 pine squirrels are getting away from a fire. 1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:02.959 I think they've got some time. I have found burned 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:05.720 up pine squirrel so, but I. 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:08.920 Think links are just moving ahead of it instead. 1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:10.520 Yeah, I think so. I think they'd have to get 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:11.640 cornered or trapped. 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:13.320 That's interesting. 1:02:13.440 --> 1:02:16.240 Yeah. I did have a friend find a how he 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:19.680 described it was barbecued cougar after a big fire that 1:02:19.680 --> 1:02:24.040 we had. It got trapped in a little canyon. But 1:02:24.400 --> 1:02:26.959 I don't think they're burning up. I think they're getting 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:29.880 out of there. They've they've evolved with fire. 1:02:30.960 --> 1:02:34.520 Have you found like other things links have killed, like 1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:38.680 deer or do they feed on they cannibalize themselves or like, 1:02:38.720 --> 1:02:40.920 have you found anything that was surprising? 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:47.680 Right, I haven't found anything surprising. They'll eat so Litstene. 1:02:47.720 --> 1:02:51.600 Let me back up. They rely on snowshoe hairs to 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:57.040 the point where there's this sort of classic ecology lesson 1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:00.840 that in the northern part of their their range, where 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:04.520 there's lots of snowshoe hairs and lots of links, there's 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:11.520 a cycle where links slightly lagging behind snowshoe hairs. Population 1:03:11.760 --> 1:03:17.120 numbers will increase as snowshoe hairs increase, and then as 1:03:17.160 --> 1:03:22.120 snowshoe hairs start to decrease, links start decreasing. And so 1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:25.320 this it's this this cycle. It's more than just links 1:03:25.400 --> 1:03:28.280 driving that cycle. There's a whole suite of predators. Every 1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:30.080 Like I said, everybody wants to eat a snowshoe hair. 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:31.920 That's just like it's a it's a. 1:03:31.920 --> 1:03:34.680 Great friends friends in Alaska to have told me who 1:03:34.760 --> 1:03:38.200 trap links have told me that it's almost immediate the 1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.120 boom buss that goes along with snow because like down 1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:42.840 here we don't have the snowshoe hair cycles. 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:46.040 Right, they're they're either you know, just we're kind of 1:03:46.080 --> 1:03:49.520 at a constant low or just really dampened amplitude. 1:03:49.560 --> 1:03:52.440 We don't have those like the insane swings, right, have 1:03:52.440 --> 1:03:54.760 you ever seen that stuff where they went through Hudson 1:03:54.800 --> 1:03:59.440 Bay Company links records and they're able to see a 1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:03.760 seven your swing on how many links pelts the Hudson 1:04:03.800 --> 1:04:06.120 Bay Company was dealing with, like in the seventeen hundreds, 1:04:06.160 --> 1:04:08.800 eighteen hundreds whatever, and they're able to kind of correlate 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:13.360 that to the to the calculating population yep. 1:04:13.480 --> 1:04:16.120 Yeah, And so that's those fur records are where sort 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:18.480 you know, people started to notice, oh, this isn't like 1:04:18.560 --> 1:04:25.080 a steady, perfectly balanced ecology here. You know, things things fluctuate, 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:30.520 and so the yeah, the cycles about every tennis years 1:04:30.840 --> 1:04:34.960 booms and bus and so anyway, that's just to illustrate 1:04:35.120 --> 1:04:38.120 how reliant on snowshoe hair's links are and. 1:04:38.040 --> 1:04:40.280 They're chasing them in the summer when there's no snow. Yeah, 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:41.240 they still the same thing. 1:04:41.360 --> 1:04:47.160 Yeah, exactly. When there's a low, they will rely more 1:04:47.320 --> 1:04:50.880 on red squirrels. And so there is some of that, 1:04:50.920 --> 1:04:54.480 but it's it's it's rarely a significant part of their area. 1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:58.280 I've seen that. It was a fairly viral video of 1:04:58.480 --> 1:04:59.880 a links killing a caribou. 1:05:00.360 --> 1:05:01.000 It's wild. 1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:04.440 Oh, it's cool. I think it might be in Europe though. 1:05:04.560 --> 1:05:08.040 There's a there's a record of one killing a there's 1:05:08.040 --> 1:05:11.000 a record of a lynx killing a doll sheet. Oh really, yeah, 1:05:11.040 --> 1:05:12.000 a witness. 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:13.600 In North America in Alaska. 1:05:13.960 --> 1:05:15.760 It was in a book by a bilegist from fair 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:18.040 who's at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks for a book. 1:05:18.040 --> 1:05:20.560 And then there's a person watched it happen. 1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:25.440 Oh, that's cool. There's I've never seen it, but there 1:05:25.440 --> 1:05:27.920 are records of you know, a big links, which when 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.280 I say big, I mean like thirty thirty one pounds 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:34.280 taking down a deer if it's you know, mired and 1:05:34.360 --> 1:05:36.400 snow or something like that, held back by the snow, 1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:40.360 but really it's snowshoe hairs or where it's at for them. 1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:45.560 Yeah, everybody knows, like bears eat honey dying now and 1:05:45.600 --> 1:05:49.640 then besides honey, yeah no, no, no, eat your buck sheet, 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:50.800 they like honey. 1:05:51.000 --> 1:06:01.480 Yeah. Yeah. 1:06:01.760 --> 1:06:08.200 So back to the fires. Links are listed as threatened 1:06:08.360 --> 1:06:11.760 all across the lower forty eight. In Washington, they're listed 1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:13.840 by the state is endangered, and that's in large part 1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:17.040 because of this blow up of fires that we've had, 1:06:17.480 --> 1:06:21.520 and so what we're trying to do because it's really 1:06:21.720 --> 1:06:25.640 it's a whole paradigm shift of what we think we 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:29.880 know about their habitat. Here in Washington, all the or 1:06:30.000 --> 1:06:32.680 many of the habitat studies that were done earlier on 1:06:33.400 --> 1:06:38.360 were on a landscape that was largely unaffected by wildfires 1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:41.240 because it was the suppression era when the Forest Service 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:43.960 was doing a really good job of putting out starts. 1:06:44.560 --> 1:06:47.480 Now we're to the point where climate conditions are such 1:06:47.600 --> 1:06:51.120 and our fuels out there are so loaded and contiguous 1:06:51.520 --> 1:06:55.400 because we were excluding those small fires that would naturally 1:06:55.440 --> 1:06:58.440 happen and so to break up the fuel bed now 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:02.640 they just blow up. Are often beyond our firefighting capabilities. 1:07:02.680 --> 1:07:06.840 So we can't we can't rely on suppression, and nor 1:07:07.080 --> 1:07:09.040 should we if we want to try to get our 1:07:09.120 --> 1:07:11.800 landscape back to a place where it's it can have 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:15.760 somewhat of its own negative feedback loop with fire, where 1:07:16.080 --> 1:07:23.760 little fires are sort of dampening the effects of future fires. So, anyway, 1:07:23.920 --> 1:07:27.280 what we know about habitat was largely based on that 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:31.440 that really fire unaffected landscape. Now we've we've flip flopped. 1:07:31.560 --> 1:07:34.160 Now most of our landscape is affected by fires, and 1:07:34.200 --> 1:07:36.800 not just fires, but really big fires that burned with 1:07:36.880 --> 1:07:39.720 a high severity, so killing a lot of the trees. 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:42.680 And so we need to get in there and figure 1:07:42.680 --> 1:07:47.680 out how links are using this new novel landscape. They've 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:52.720 got a whole new menu, the regrowth, the different Let's 1:07:52.720 --> 1:07:55.120 see when we talk about boreal forests. Yeah, there's forest, 1:07:55.400 --> 1:07:56.680 but if you really think about. 1:07:56.480 --> 1:08:00.640 That, can you describe bore So it's. 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:04.440 More ubiquitous up in Canada and Alaska. It's that that 1:08:04.760 --> 1:08:11.240 spruce and fir lodge pole pine forest that's you know, 1:08:11.360 --> 1:08:14.400 in mountains. It's sort of that that sub alpine right 1:08:14.400 --> 1:08:19.479 before you get at a tree line. Yeah, it's it's 1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:22.280 that ecosystem that spruce f like you'd see up in 1:08:22.320 --> 1:08:24.840 Alaska or Canada. 1:08:24.960 --> 1:08:28.360 Here and there you'll see aspens, which doesn't rule out sure, yeah, 1:08:28.400 --> 1:08:30.120 it doesn't rule out it being boreal forests. 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:36.599 Right right right? Where was I going with that? Oh, 1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:39.120 boreal forest we think about, Okay, a forest, we can 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:42.559 picture a forest, but with we can think a little 1:08:42.560 --> 1:08:45.960 more thoughtfully about that and realize that there's all different 1:08:46.560 --> 1:08:48.680 structure types within that. So what I mean by that 1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:53.280 is there's little short regenerating forests, there's you know, older 1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:57.680 growth forests, there's forty year old forests. That's you know 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:00.400 sometimes when you come across a patch of lodgepole pine 1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:03.160 and it's it's maybe you know, the the trunks of 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.320 the size of dinner plates, and it's just the canopy 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:08.519 is so thick that the understory is totally parked out 1:09:08.520 --> 1:09:11.320 and you could just stroll through there, no problem. So 1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:13.840 there's that type of structure. There's all these different structures, 1:09:13.880 --> 1:09:16.840 and again for snowshoe hares, it's about that understory. It's 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:19.599 about that dense structure. And so for links, it's about 1:09:19.600 --> 1:09:23.160 that dense structure. And so while we've still got boreal 1:09:23.479 --> 1:09:26.920 forests out there, there's all different structures of it. There's 1:09:26.960 --> 1:09:30.760 just freshly burned, there's regenerating, there's that parked out understory, 1:09:30.760 --> 1:09:33.240 when there's sort of middle aged and there's old growth. 1:09:33.479 --> 1:09:36.360 There's different shapes and sizes of those patches of forest 1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:38.439 after a burn that are left. And so we need 1:09:38.479 --> 1:09:42.920 to figure out what are those structures and shapes that 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:46.240 Links are using, because that's what we need to be 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:50.040 focusing on now, because that's what we've got and these 1:09:50.040 --> 1:09:56.280 mega fires are not stopping, and so that we just 1:09:56.320 --> 1:09:59.160 need to learn the basics of this new habitat that 1:09:59.160 --> 1:10:01.120 they're using. And so that's what we're trying to learn 1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:05.960 about and focus on, is burned habitat. So we were 1:10:06.000 --> 1:10:09.519 working in that burn. I was talking about that tripod 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:12.400 burn the burned in two thousand and six, and we're 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:16.920 going in there, we're getting links, callers on links, and 1:10:16.960 --> 1:10:20.960 we're backtracking, and we're using a whole bunch of cameras 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:24.879 to figure out how they're making that burn work. Because 1:10:26.000 --> 1:10:29.080 they are making it work. This is something that's really 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:32.800 hopeful and cool that's happened in the last seven years 1:10:32.880 --> 1:10:35.960 is it's gone from we'd go out there looking for 1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:39.280 links tracks and see nothing, not even very many snowshoe 1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:41.160 hair tracks, to all of sudden are starting to see 1:10:41.200 --> 1:10:45.400 links tracks and seven years, yeah, not very much time 1:10:46.400 --> 1:10:47.840 to now one of those. 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:50.120 So in your time out there, you've seen a difference. 1:10:50.240 --> 1:10:55.200 Oh yeah, big time. Yeah, yeah, Okay. One of the 1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:58.360 cool things we're seeing now is right after the burn, 1:10:58.400 --> 1:11:00.840 when we had those GPS callers on cats back in 1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:06.120 two thousand and six, seven eight, there were cats that 1:11:06.160 --> 1:11:09.280 were living right next to the burn, and if there 1:11:09.280 --> 1:11:12.759 were nice places in that burn that had skipped fire skips, 1:11:12.760 --> 1:11:15.040 so places where the burn went around for whatever reason, 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:17.680 they'd junt in there and use those for hunting. And 1:11:17.720 --> 1:11:21.680 so we learned from that study that if there is 1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:24.679 some structure, there will be snowshoe hairs, and the links 1:11:24.680 --> 1:11:25.639 will make the most of them. 1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:26.719 They'll find those spots. 1:11:26.800 --> 1:11:29.400 They'll find those spots. But those spots in the immediate 1:11:29.439 --> 1:11:33.400 aftermath of a fire where were places like fire skips, 1:11:33.880 --> 1:11:39.120 and they'd they'd preferentially use lighter area burns, you know, 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:41.320 where there was still some live tree, just a little 1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:43.240 bit of cover to get to those spots. I mean 1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:43.880 you've probably tried. 1:11:44.000 --> 1:11:45.080 You like to have overhead cover. 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:48.519 They like to have something. If you've ever followed any 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:53.080 kind of cat tracks, they are so meticulous about hugging cover. 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:55.439 They'd really rather not be out in the open. I 1:11:55.479 --> 1:11:58.599 think that's I mean, I don't know what a cat's thinking. 1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:01.200 I'm not a lynx, but I think that's probably a 1:12:01.200 --> 1:12:03.960 mixture of just protection, but also if there's in a 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:06.479 little bit of cover, there's a little chance there's some food, 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:08.800 and they're just they're always looking for food, and so 1:12:08.840 --> 1:12:12.920 you'll see them do things like preferentially, you know, walk 1:12:13.000 --> 1:12:17.280 between two trees rather than just you know, going alongside them. 1:12:17.280 --> 1:12:19.840 They're just they're cool like that that they're really using 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:20.320 that cover. 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:23.160 How big is their home range? 1:12:23.400 --> 1:12:24.960 That really varies. 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:27.559 Probably like how much food is around exactly. 1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:33.679 So in Washington from our previous collaring, we had home 1:12:33.760 --> 1:12:37.120 ranges that were as small as like seven square miles 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:39.640 all the way up to you know, ninety or one 1:12:39.680 --> 1:12:40.400 hundred square miles. 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:43.040 They can be bigger. I mean that that a male 1:12:43.120 --> 1:12:46.240 female thing. Largely the personalities. 1:12:45.800 --> 1:12:48.960 Males tend to be have larger because I want to 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:53.759 overlap several females. But it's also what how much space, 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:55.880 how much habitat do I need to make a living? 1:12:56.400 --> 1:12:59.280 So the you know, the theory is if the habitat 1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:01.479 is less PRODUCTI if you're gonna need more of it, 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:02.799 you're gonna have to cover more ground. 1:13:03.640 --> 1:13:07.479 So one snowshoe hair paradise, he doesn't need to. 1:13:07.479 --> 1:13:10.400 Go right, It could be a really small home range. 1:13:10.840 --> 1:13:13.640 Did you see that study years ago, maybe five or 1:13:13.720 --> 1:13:16.800 six years ago, I don't know if you call it 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:19.240 a study, but this observation from some years ago where 1:13:19.240 --> 1:13:22.320 there's guys looking at They used to these researchers used 1:13:22.320 --> 1:13:27.360 to wonder about rivers and how links related to rivers, 1:13:28.160 --> 1:13:31.320 thinking that big rivers like the Tannana right in Alaska, 1:13:31.360 --> 1:13:33.759 that the tan and aw would be an obvious barrier 1:13:34.000 --> 1:13:36.639 for links. But they'll swim back and forth across that thing. 1:13:37.520 --> 1:13:39.679 There's not much that they had come up in those areas, dudes. 1:13:39.680 --> 1:13:41.320 And it's just so it's be so weird to think 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:42.800 you'd be coming down the river and having a link 1:13:42.840 --> 1:13:46.280 swim across something like the they would they would just go. 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:51.280 Yeah, they those things scooped. They will go long distances, 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:53.519 they'll disperse long distances. 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:54.320 And no one ever sees them. 1:13:54.560 --> 1:13:56.240 Well now I'm about callers on those. 1:13:56.280 --> 1:13:58.000 No I'm saying, but it's like when you see that, 1:13:58.200 --> 1:14:00.360 like how could you never see? What I mean? I 1:14:00.439 --> 1:14:02.240 think of them always tolled up with some little thicket 1:14:02.240 --> 1:14:03.559 because you just go your whole life and don't lay 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:04.120 eyes on sure. 1:14:04.200 --> 1:14:08.200 Sure, yeah, I mean they when they in my experience, 1:14:08.640 --> 1:14:11.160 unless you, you know, sort of come up right on 1:14:11.240 --> 1:14:14.120 them and you jump them, they'll just stand there and 1:14:14.320 --> 1:14:16.200 kind of look at you and hunker down. And it's 1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:17.519 it's really easy to miss. 1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:21.080 Them, so you you've approached them wearing the collar. When 1:14:21.160 --> 1:14:23.080 you've approached your collared cats. 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:26.200 Not the ones that we have collared right now, but 1:14:26.880 --> 1:14:29.000 just being out there so much, have come across a 1:14:29.000 --> 1:14:34.280 lot of links, I mean a lot for seeing a link. 1:14:34.800 --> 1:14:40.280 So you okay, this is outside of ones that you've caught, 1:14:40.560 --> 1:14:43.240 and outside the ones that you were guided to because 1:14:43.240 --> 1:14:45.120 you knew where they were because they have a collar on. 1:14:45.360 --> 1:14:46.439 You've bumped into links? 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:47.160 Yeah? 1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:48.080 How many times? 1:14:48.600 --> 1:14:51.439 I don't know a handful of times I bumped into them? Yeah, 1:14:51.479 --> 1:14:54.519 I bumped into collared links, not using the telemetry, not 1:14:54.520 --> 1:15:00.960 trying to, but bumped into them. I summer before last, 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:03.200 I had a cool sighting where I was. I was 1:15:03.520 --> 1:15:07.080 hiking into the wilderness to scout for deer season, and 1:15:07.120 --> 1:15:09.240 I got to our camp and looked up and there 1:15:09.320 --> 1:15:11.759 was a links jumped away. Yeah. It was very cool 1:15:12.040 --> 1:15:15.040 and it was actually no, no, it was actually special 1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:17.080 too because this was in I was in a new 1:15:17.120 --> 1:15:19.960 Burn area, but I was in a fire skip and. 1:15:20.680 --> 1:15:23.040 Scouting for deer and there you saw one. Nothing to 1:15:23.040 --> 1:15:29.960 do with your research, no, No, yeah yet. 1:15:29.920 --> 1:15:32.519 Positive, I got I got the rear view and I 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:33.560 saw that tale. 1:15:33.680 --> 1:15:35.800 Yeah, so you know what you're looking at in an 1:15:35.800 --> 1:15:38.840 area where they got plenty of food, Like, what's a 1:15:38.840 --> 1:15:43.479 good lifespan? Like if they don't have some unfortunate thing. 1:15:43.880 --> 1:15:47.120 Yeah, maybe seven years, seven or eight years. 1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:50.440 Yeah, how are you guys trapping them? 1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:51.280 This is good? 1:15:51.880 --> 1:15:53.840 Yeah, so this is this is what I like. 1:15:54.000 --> 1:15:56.280 Can you put in whether Mercer Longing ever told you 1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:57.280 anything helpful? 1:15:58.720 --> 1:15:59.960 We've been talking a lot. 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:02.360 Yeah, he gets excited about catching cat. 1:16:02.439 --> 1:16:04.400 Oh yeah, no, Yeah, it's fun to talk with him 1:16:04.400 --> 1:16:05.080 because we both do. 1:16:05.439 --> 1:16:07.280 Yeah, lay it out how you catch one? 1:16:07.400 --> 1:16:13.799 Okay, let's see. So, like I said, there are maybe 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:19.479 sixty in Washington. Our study area is I don't know, 1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:24.160 maybe one hundred thousand acres. So that's a lot of space. 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.200 How many are in that study area? If you had 1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:27.400 to take a ballpark. 1:16:27.040 --> 1:16:30.200 If I had to take a ballpark, I mean last 1:16:30.240 --> 1:16:31.800 year this time when I was on the podcast, we 1:16:31.800 --> 1:16:37.680 hadn't started trapping, and I would have been hopeful that 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:38.719 there were maybe four. 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:40.439 Or five in one hundred thousand acres. 1:16:40.760 --> 1:16:46.320 Yeah. Now that we've got some links on air and 1:16:47.640 --> 1:16:50.679 spent you know, I've spent three months tracking them out 1:16:50.720 --> 1:17:00.000 in that landscape. We know our collared links are content 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:02.280 tray to what we thought might be happening, making their 1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:06.120 entire home range, their entire living within the burn. Which 1:17:06.160 --> 1:17:10.240 that's really cool because that says to us, there's something 1:17:10.280 --> 1:17:14.120 about the configuration of this burn where there are fire 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:16.839 skips where there aren't, or maybe it's that there's places 1:17:16.840 --> 1:17:19.120 that are regenerating enough that that's actually, at this point, 1:17:19.200 --> 1:17:21.920 really rich habitat. Whatever it is, which is what we're 1:17:21.920 --> 1:17:24.400 going to find out, is making it so that links 1:17:24.400 --> 1:17:26.360 are living entirely within the burn. 1:17:26.200 --> 1:17:28.679 God instead of just ducking in there now and then exactly, 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:32.080 So one hundred thousand acres. Yeah, and you're going to 1:17:32.160 --> 1:17:34.000 take a You're going to take a like, do you 1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:36.480 can do this too? You can be I'd be surprised 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:37.639 if it was more than what. 1:17:37.880 --> 1:17:41.520 Okay, I'd be surprised if it was more than sixteen, 1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:46.400 but I'd be surprised if it was less than. 1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:51.160 Nine, because you guys trapped your asses off from collegn trapped. 1:17:53.640 --> 1:17:59.200 We caught four in two months, and then we got 1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:04.200 a bonus cat this fall, which was super exciting. Well, okay, 1:18:04.240 --> 1:18:06.840 so I'll explain how we normally trap. So this is 1:18:06.840 --> 1:18:09.600 what we're doing to our official season, and this was 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:12.760 how I was tied to traplinks and have how I've 1:18:12.800 --> 1:18:17.760 always done it. It's snowmobiling. Every single day we're out there, 1:18:17.960 --> 1:18:21.360 we're riding around one hundred miles a day. We're covering 1:18:21.560 --> 1:18:25.599 ground and we're we're looking for tracks. You get really 1:18:25.600 --> 1:18:29.280 good at snowmobiling and tracking at high speed. We're looking 1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:29.760 for track. 1:18:30.080 --> 1:18:31.240 You know what you want to. 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:35.960 See exactly, and you start getting you know, an idea 1:18:36.160 --> 1:18:39.479 of all right, I see tracks here regularly, or I 1:18:39.520 --> 1:18:43.120 see and and they're crossing you know, a saddle here, 1:18:43.240 --> 1:18:45.439 or crossing down a drainage here, crossing the road here, 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:47.439 or they're just using this road as a corridor, or 1:18:47.439 --> 1:18:49.120 maybe this is good habitat, and you can see where 1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:52.120 they're hunting along. They like to use roads, and then 1:18:52.120 --> 1:18:53.880 they'll they'll sort of pop over to the edge of 1:18:53.920 --> 1:18:55.479 the road. You'll see where they put their little butt 1:18:55.560 --> 1:18:57.439 down and sit, and then you know they're they're they're 1:18:57.479 --> 1:18:59.960 looking for snowshie hairs and they'll do that a lot 1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:01.360 on the road, so you know where they're hunting too. 1:19:02.640 --> 1:19:06.040 Once you find little honey holes that you think are 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:08.519 gonna be good, then we set a trap, and our 1:19:08.600 --> 1:19:13.559 traps are they're box traps. We made them ourselves. They're 1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:16.599 made out of This is not our invention, but it's 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:20.880 it's just a cheap er, cheap ish way to do this. 1:19:21.840 --> 1:19:24.679 But it's a PVC pipe frame and then we wrap 1:19:24.680 --> 1:19:28.479 it with chicken wire. I had a local welder welds 1:19:28.560 --> 1:19:32.880 up some some just thin metal frame doors and that 1:19:32.960 --> 1:19:36.160 goes into a PVC pipe frame. It slides up and down, 1:19:36.200 --> 1:19:39.160 so it's a guillotine type door. Here's where it gets 1:19:39.160 --> 1:19:42.320 a little wacky. It sounds like a Rube Goldberg, but 1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:46.040 it works. It works really well. We've got in the 1:19:46.080 --> 1:19:50.280 back of the trap a little fishing line trip line, 1:19:50.720 --> 1:19:54.200 so it's in the back quarter of the trap. That 1:19:54.439 --> 1:20:00.320 fishing line goes spans spans the let's see, it's such 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.760 that when an animal goes in there and reaches for 1:20:03.840 --> 1:20:07.000 the bait that's behind it, they're they're going to hit it. Now, 1:20:07.040 --> 1:20:10.479 that goes up to the top of the trap. That 1:20:10.600 --> 1:20:13.840 fishing line, where there's a mouse trap wired onto. The 1:20:13.840 --> 1:20:19.479 traps get very yeah, tied mouse traps with the little 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:26.200 fake cheese tied. Yes, well, you tie the fishing line 1:20:26.400 --> 1:20:31.760 to the fake cheese the door has paracord that is 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:35.760 holding it up. That para cord goes back to the 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:39.120 mouse trap. It's got a loop in the end blade. 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:42.000 Yeah, glue to the mouse trap bail. 1:20:42.520 --> 1:20:48.400 It's not quite that bad. The loop goes over the 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:51.200 arm of the mouse trap so that when you set 1:20:51.280 --> 1:20:54.320 the trap, it's it. It doesn't make it go off. 1:20:54.439 --> 1:20:56.880 The the the door is being held up by the 1:20:57.040 --> 1:20:59.519 rope that is being held in place by the set trap, 1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:04.400 and when linx or a bird or anything hits that 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:09.360 that trip line, it pulls the cheese down. Trap goes off, 1:21:09.800 --> 1:21:12.360 releasing the door and it drops. 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:14.040 Is that door weighted so it drops quick? 1:21:14.880 --> 1:21:18.519 It weighs enough just because it's got that metal frame. Okay, Yeah, 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:22.519 Everything in the design of our trap is also geared 1:21:22.520 --> 1:21:25.720 towards really making sure our animals are safe. So we 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:27.760 don't want a super heavy door that should it go 1:21:27.800 --> 1:21:29.320 off early, it could. Yeah. 1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:31.800 Yeah, what what what are you baiting and luring with? 1:21:32.560 --> 1:21:36.640 Oh, we're using all kinds of different lures, but I 1:21:36.720 --> 1:21:40.800 like to have Well, let's see, we're using road killed deer. 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:43.000 And the reason we're using road killed deer is that 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:46.559 it's usually readily available right now we're hurting for bait. 1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:47.400 We are desperate. 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:48.360 Well, not beaver meat. 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:51.400 I've used that in the past, and I love using 1:21:51.439 --> 1:21:54.559 that because it's got a nice smell, but our state 1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:58.240 vet advises not to just in case of disease transfer. 1:21:59.840 --> 1:22:01.760 And so we're we're using We're going to get in 1:22:01.840 --> 1:22:02.759 and eat that bait. 1:22:02.640 --> 1:22:06.280 Exactly, and so yeah, so I use that for yeah, 1:22:06.360 --> 1:22:09.040 deer meat. So we're constantly on the lookout for roadkill. 1:22:09.080 --> 1:22:10.240 We've got a whole routine. 1:22:10.400 --> 1:22:12.479 I think every better roadkill. 1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:15.439 Oh yeah, well we've but we've got our whole community 1:22:15.520 --> 1:22:18.960 is looking out for us because we're we posted it everywhere. 1:22:18.400 --> 1:22:21.280 We're desperate because like here in Bozeman, we haven't gotten 1:22:21.320 --> 1:22:23.880 a ton of snow, so the deer haven't all pushed 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:24.880 down to the valley bottom. 1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:26.559 You ever find anyone who's a little too good at 1:22:26.600 --> 1:22:30.720 getting meat I have, I don't know. I just let 1:22:30.760 --> 1:22:32.439 the other one jumped out in front of my truck. 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:36.360 No, we're getting so desperate that I'm like, good people, 1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:40.840 they need to drive faster something. Yeah, so we're we 1:22:40.880 --> 1:22:43.479 get calls right now and right now we're doing We're desperate. 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:45.280 We're going at any time of the day because it 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:47.479 is cut throat right now. 1:22:47.880 --> 1:22:49.320 We've had competition. 1:22:49.400 --> 1:22:52.320 Oh my god, we've had calls where somebody's like fresh 1:22:52.360 --> 1:22:55.160 road killed corner of blah blah blah, this creek. We 1:22:55.640 --> 1:22:59.439 zoom down there and it's gone. People are salvaging for 1:22:59.479 --> 1:22:59.800 the meat. 1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:02.760 And so there's so few of the researchers out there. 1:23:03.080 --> 1:23:05.439 Well, there are some other researchers that we're that we're 1:23:05.439 --> 1:23:09.120 competing with. They're a wolverine project. We've got to compromise though. 1:23:09.160 --> 1:23:11.760 They can have the head because that's not super meaty. 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:13.920 But they like that for the wolverines because they can't 1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:18.120 just a little more of a puzzle and they have 1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:20.040 to work harder to get it that so it lasts longer. 1:23:20.520 --> 1:23:24.440 I was going to ask that, like what other predators 1:23:24.439 --> 1:23:26.559 are in the area that might be attractor of those 1:23:26.920 --> 1:23:27.640 like wolverines. 1:23:29.320 --> 1:23:31.720 Yeah, bye, catch for sure, but let her finish the bait. 1:23:31.840 --> 1:23:35.240 And I want to get the bobcatch by caatch using flagging. 1:23:35.840 --> 1:23:38.240 Oh yeah, CDs wings, what do you use? 1:23:40.120 --> 1:23:42.799 Let's see, so we always do a little a little 1:23:42.920 --> 1:23:47.840 eye catch. I've used CDs. I like what we usually 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:50.439 use now just because it's super easy. Is that flashing 1:23:50.479 --> 1:23:53.080 bird tape for like you put up in an orchard. 1:23:53.360 --> 1:23:54.840 You just hang a little of that. It flutters in 1:23:54.840 --> 1:23:55.800 the breeze. Really nice. 1:23:56.880 --> 1:23:59.960 You know someone told me recently drives them crazy, bobcats crazy? 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:03.640 Is uh. He takes peacock feathers. This guy lives in 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:07.200 a state where you can't use game bird parts. He 1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:11.639 takes peacock feathers and sticks them just in because it's 1:24:11.640 --> 1:24:14.920 got that iridescence and the way they blow, he says, 1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:19.679 like a magnet. You picture that little eye, that eye 1:24:19.720 --> 1:24:22.880 shape on a peacock feather, just flickering in the breeze. Says, 1:24:22.920 --> 1:24:25.960 it's like irresistance. They got to come. What they wonder 1:24:26.000 --> 1:24:26.720 what that thing is? 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:30.439 Well, we got new this year some little I think 1:24:30.479 --> 1:24:33.080 there must be Christmas decorations or something. But it's shaped 1:24:33.120 --> 1:24:37.360 like an icicle, but it spins, so it's flashy and 1:24:37.400 --> 1:24:37.920 it spins. 1:24:38.439 --> 1:24:40.400 Try those turn you on to a new product, you 1:24:40.479 --> 1:24:43.679 might like, Oh please do are you aware? Tom Miranda 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:45.760 and someone else they make this thing that you're not 1:24:45.840 --> 1:24:49.880 they're not legal here. It's a mouse emitter, a mouse 1:24:49.960 --> 1:24:51.719 noise squeaker. Have you tried squeak? 1:24:51.760 --> 1:24:58.599 Got squeakers? Got squawkers? When you've got nine maybe ten 1:24:58.680 --> 1:25:00.880 links some ten thousand acres that you're trying to catch. 1:25:02.240 --> 1:25:03.559 Oh yeah, big time. 1:25:03.600 --> 1:25:05.040 Do you ever worry that gets a little too busy 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:05.719 around your set? 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:07.960 Yeah, yeah I do. 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:11.080 Are using a commercial lure too, Yep. 1:25:11.120 --> 1:25:13.679 We buy lures so the because to use for lure. 1:25:14.280 --> 1:25:16.880 We've got all kinds of stuff because but but I 1:25:16.880 --> 1:25:19.439 always like to have because we're using deer, I like 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:23.680 to have some castor in there. And then to appeal 1:25:23.920 --> 1:25:29.200 to you know, territory reality or breeding. We've got you know, 1:25:29.200 --> 1:25:35.360 squeez bottles of Lynx p cat nippy stuff. We've got 1:25:35.360 --> 1:25:41.040 a whole drawer. It's I'm a huge well we had 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:44.080 to move, so the long distance lures were like something skunky, 1:25:44.120 --> 1:25:48.200 we'll put that up over the trap and you know, 1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:50.479 like a lot of people Gusto is a great brand 1:25:50.520 --> 1:25:56.240 of that, but it is poke ten. Oh hell yeah, 1:25:56.280 --> 1:25:59.280 I've used that. I mean universally that stuff is great. 1:25:59.680 --> 1:26:03.400 But huh, it can be. You're all you're like, you're 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:07.000 like all checked out. Oh my god, there's nothing you 1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:09.080 know all the like all the I just hear all 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:11.760 like I'll talk to cat trap bobcat trappers and this 1:26:11.880 --> 1:26:13.519 is all stuff they bring up. So it's funny that 1:26:13.560 --> 1:26:14.879 you're like, onto all these. 1:26:14.840 --> 1:26:16.599 Oh yeah, a little a little skunk is good. 1:26:16.800 --> 1:26:17.760 But we. 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:22.040 That you can just you can order all these things 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:25.120 online and it's usually not a problem. But the gusto 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:28.240 you can smell. And I did have the post office once. 1:26:28.320 --> 1:26:30.760 Be like, hm, next time you order that, it'll be 1:26:30.800 --> 1:26:32.680 on the back porch. You're gonna have to go around for. 1:26:32.680 --> 1:26:34.760 That if you want. I have it here in the 1:26:34.760 --> 1:26:36.640 parking lot, and I'll happily give it to you. I 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:40.439 have a bottle of skunk essence and beaver castor blank 1:26:41.040 --> 1:26:42.719 together to fly or drive. 1:26:43.280 --> 1:26:48.880 I flew, Yeah, we had. We get so used to 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:50.200 the smell that we don't smell it. 1:26:50.680 --> 1:26:52.320 But oh, you know what, can I can I tell 1:26:52.320 --> 1:26:54.400 you something real quick that I didn't mention? How do 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.559 I miss this? Krinn? We were recently telling a story 1:26:57.560 --> 1:27:00.479 about the world's greatest tsa agent who instead to stealing 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:03.439 people's knives, we couldn't tell where what states happens in. 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:06.519 Instead of stealing people's knives, she instructs them to put 1:27:06.560 --> 1:27:09.280 them in the drop ceiling of the bathroom. And someone 1:27:09.320 --> 1:27:10.840 went up there to get their knife back and there 1:27:10.880 --> 1:27:13.519 was several other knives up in the drop ceiling. This 1:27:13.600 --> 1:27:18.240 guy was talking about moving from Australia and he's moving 1:27:18.280 --> 1:27:20.000 from Australia to the US. So he's trying to bring 1:27:20.040 --> 1:27:21.680 guns and AMMO. I don't know why I didn't buy 1:27:21.720 --> 1:27:23.320 a new ammal when he got here or new guns 1:27:23.320 --> 1:27:24.679 when he got here, but he's trying to move guns 1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:28.599 and AMMO from Australia. And in Australia they somehow tell 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:32.760 them to put the ammal in a carry on and 1:27:32.800 --> 1:27:34.960 he's like that can't be right. To the customs people like, no, 1:27:35.000 --> 1:27:36.040 you had to put in the carry on. So he 1:27:36.040 --> 1:27:41.280 gets in the Australian version of TSA has to confiscated 1:27:41.360 --> 1:27:46.880 from to be destroyed. He later gets to the US 1:27:48.080 --> 1:27:50.479 and one of his bags is missing. One of his 1:27:50.560 --> 1:27:54.240 bags didn't make it, so he files for a lost 1:27:54.280 --> 1:27:56.639 bag and then when the bag turns up, it has 1:27:56.680 --> 1:27:59.920 all his AMMO in it. Oh, someone had taken pity 1:28:00.080 --> 1:28:05.040 on him, pulled his bag, put his ammal back in it, 1:28:05.080 --> 1:28:07.639 and send it alongest way on a later flight rather 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:10.680 than destroying the guy's animal. Wow, very civilized. Yeah, it's 1:28:10.680 --> 1:28:12.720 like you know on Christmas to do happy stories in 1:28:12.800 --> 1:28:16.880 the news good news. Where I buy gas, they'd have 1:28:16.920 --> 1:28:22.160 a thing the pump plays you happy news stories, cheddar news. 1:28:22.240 --> 1:28:24.200 You find yourself just standing around. 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:28.840 Watching us for a while. I mean, I'm annoyed. But 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:32.120 there used to be this person called like Eva Menendez 1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:35.080 or something. I should tell you how to make like 1:28:35.280 --> 1:28:37.280 get like a jar and put some marbles in there 1:28:37.360 --> 1:28:40.120 for decoration or whatever, and then or how to not 1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:42.760 be so stressed out. But today it was some dude 1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:46.960 telling happy news. It's called good news. 1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:49.720 I've just never noticed that there was a I've never 1:28:49.760 --> 1:28:52.320 paid enough attention to notice that it's. 1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:54.439 All good news. It's called good news. 1:28:55.160 --> 1:28:56.839 I've just never paid enough attention. 1:28:58.000 --> 1:29:00.559 We scooped him because this would be good news about 1:29:00.560 --> 1:29:05.160 the guy's ammo, that's all. Yeah, this reminds me of 1:29:05.160 --> 1:29:07.719 that sure you taking my skunk sent home? 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:09.560 Yeah, it could be probably remind me of that. 1:29:09.600 --> 1:29:12.360 You don't want to do that. Well, I mean, you 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:14.439 know that thing that happened in the Laska Airlines flight 1:29:14.520 --> 1:29:14.920 there night. 1:29:15.560 --> 1:29:17.439 I heard about that as I was. 1:29:21.400 --> 1:29:23.040 They have to ground all them planes. 1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:28.200 Yeah, we we have an official office now right in downtown. 1:29:28.280 --> 1:29:31.120 Winthrop was just the town we live in, and we 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:33.879 were told we needed to put the the gusto outside 1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:38.000 because you walk in and it smells like straight up 1:29:38.680 --> 1:29:39.280 a hot box. 1:29:39.439 --> 1:29:42.200 How do you get links? You're in F and T 1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:46.240 or so it must be trappers up in the far North. 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:47.639 So yeah, I guess. 1:29:47.720 --> 1:29:51.040 So we got all as a bottle of links. You're 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:51.919 in really expensive. 1:29:52.240 --> 1:29:54.200 It's not well in the mounts that we're using it. 1:29:54.200 --> 1:29:54.760 It adds up. 1:29:55.240 --> 1:29:57.439 It's gonna be like a really limited supply. 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:00.840 I don't know how limited is. Yeah, I don't know. 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:02.560 See, buy it comes in a bottle. 1:30:02.320 --> 1:30:04.800 Comes in a bottle. Gotta make sure. They often don't 1:30:04.800 --> 1:30:07.480 have good lids, and so we everything usually smells. 1:30:07.240 --> 1:30:09.600 Like the piece here, uh huh. 1:30:09.640 --> 1:30:13.439 And yeah, so we've got score bottles of that. Mix 1:30:13.479 --> 1:30:15.879 a little glitcering so it doesn't freeze. 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:18.160 You need to do that. 1:30:19.200 --> 1:30:20.000 Yeah that's good. 1:30:20.240 --> 1:30:21.559 I got some glitier on my counter. 1:30:21.680 --> 1:30:23.320 Keeps freezing, Yeah, it does. 1:30:24.680 --> 1:30:26.200 It keeps it from freezing. Yeah. Yeah. 1:30:26.240 --> 1:30:27.920 Like let's say you got you know how they sell that. 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:31.160 Your pea comes in those bottles like, yeah, ten ounces? 1:30:31.360 --> 1:30:32.639 How much glister are you putting there? 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:36.120 I don't know. No, No, you just buy it and 1:30:36.240 --> 1:30:37.040 you can mix it up. 1:30:37.400 --> 1:30:39.160 I'm saying, how much glister do you shoot in there? 1:30:39.240 --> 1:30:39.599 Oh? 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:41.040 I have a tablespoon. 1:30:41.520 --> 1:30:45.360 No more than that, I don't Yeah, just depend you 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:46.960 just yeah, I don't know the other. 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.160 So you go to a trappers supply house and buy 1:30:49.240 --> 1:30:49.960 glitcering too? 1:30:50.360 --> 1:30:51.559 You can, Yeah, you can order it. 1:30:51.640 --> 1:30:53.640 I have a bottle. I'm just curious how you guys do. 1:30:53.680 --> 1:30:54.760 Oh yeah, we just order it. 1:30:55.240 --> 1:30:56.680 Do they ever wonder what you guys are doing when 1:30:56.680 --> 1:30:57.839 you're ordering all this equipment? 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:02.080 No, but we order enough that they write us nice 1:31:02.080 --> 1:31:03.679 notes and give us free hats. 1:31:03.439 --> 1:31:05.600 And stuff, and they're never like why are you do 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:07.559 you know you're not? Did they never let you know? 1:31:07.760 --> 1:31:09.760 Like you know you're not allowed to trap links where 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:10.080 you're at? 1:31:10.160 --> 1:31:12.639 Like, does you know we're trapping links? I mean they 1:31:13.040 --> 1:31:16.800 do you use F and T or Minnesota trap line? 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:17.120 Yeah? 1:31:17.280 --> 1:31:21.280 Yeah, yeah. We just go on there and try new 1:31:21.280 --> 1:31:24.040 things and all those I'm such a sucker, all those descriptions, 1:31:24.040 --> 1:31:26.559 you're like, this is the magic bullet they make them. 1:31:27.640 --> 1:31:29.040 You'll read those lure descriptions. 1:31:29.080 --> 1:31:31.080 Oh yeah, and they all feel like this is the one. 1:31:31.320 --> 1:31:36.080 I'm a total sucker. So we got all kinds of yeah, exactly, 1:31:36.240 --> 1:31:38.680 I'm like, great, that's what I need. So we've got 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.479 all of our lures and we try to change those up. 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:47.679 But yeah, always a caster, some pe or links. 1:31:47.720 --> 1:31:50.679 Glands are using cameras on your traps too. 1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:56.479 We uh, sometimes not very often. We're just beating cheeks 1:31:56.479 --> 1:31:58.280 and running a gun and so much out there that 1:31:58.360 --> 1:32:02.439 we it would the camera to Yeah, and. 1:32:02.360 --> 1:32:04.160 You probably don't have cell service anyway, so you can 1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:06.240 sell you their cas and do you get links that 1:32:06.320 --> 1:32:07.799 work the set? But just never committed. 1:32:07.840 --> 1:32:08.960 Oh that's the norm. 1:32:09.240 --> 1:32:13.559 Really, Oh my god, what do they want to do? 1:32:13.560 --> 1:32:14.400 Not go in the cave? 1:32:14.479 --> 1:32:16.560 They'll circle down wind or they'll even come up to 1:32:16.600 --> 1:32:18.519 the door or what like, what's the hang up for him? 1:32:18.800 --> 1:32:23.479 Various things? I mean, they'll let's see, for example, we 1:32:23.560 --> 1:32:26.400 had a cat last year that we could not catch. 1:32:26.439 --> 1:32:29.240 We tried everything, We threw all sorts of things at him. 1:32:29.360 --> 1:32:33.240 We you know, just just different variations in our sets. 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:37.000 And he would often twice a day, so we'd come 1:32:37.040 --> 1:32:39.400 on the line in the morning, there'd be fresh tracks 1:32:39.400 --> 1:32:42.840 of him walking by the traps. You could tell he 1:32:42.920 --> 1:32:45.160 was spending enough time around there that he was checking them, 1:32:45.400 --> 1:32:47.880 he was checking out the scene. He certainly was not 1:32:47.960 --> 1:32:50.160 going in and poking his head in or anything like that, 1:32:50.160 --> 1:32:53.280 but it close nod. 1:32:52.800 --> 1:32:54.639 So he knew that that thing was bad news. 1:32:54.800 --> 1:32:57.800 Yeah, And I like to so when we we we 1:32:57.880 --> 1:33:00.280 put our trap in the snow, we s you know, 1:33:00.280 --> 1:33:01.880 we pack snow around it. I like to make sure 1:33:01.920 --> 1:33:03.600 there's plenty of snow in the bottom so they're not 1:33:03.640 --> 1:33:06.360 feeling that chicken wire or anything funky. And then we 1:33:06.439 --> 1:33:09.200 put boughs along the side just to give that sort 1:33:09.200 --> 1:33:12.599 of tunnel look kind of you know, like a cat 1:33:12.720 --> 1:33:14.960 likes a paper bag or something that's gonna be sort 1:33:15.000 --> 1:33:18.120 of exciting, but it also just keeps snow from blowing 1:33:18.160 --> 1:33:20.760 in and piling up in your trap, gives them a 1:33:20.760 --> 1:33:22.960 little thermal protection if they're in there. And then on 1:33:23.000 --> 1:33:26.040 the top, we've got a piece of clear plastic and 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:28.559 that's again to protect the cat in case there's a 1:33:28.600 --> 1:33:30.960 thaw and it gets wet. We don't want to getting wet. 1:33:31.560 --> 1:33:33.760 And then we pile boughs on that and I like 1:33:33.840 --> 1:33:35.680 to make it so it would be unattractive for a 1:33:35.720 --> 1:33:38.200 cat to jump on top because that would set off 1:33:38.240 --> 1:33:41.479 the trap. And worst case scenario would be, say there's 1:33:41.479 --> 1:33:43.880 a mom and kitten and mom's going in the trap, 1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:45.880 and then a kitten jumps on it and the door 1:33:46.080 --> 1:33:49.639 you know, closes and spooks her, and then you're ten 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:52.800 steps behind where you were. So yeah, I try to 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:55.200 to make it unattractive for them to jump on top 1:33:55.240 --> 1:33:58.479 of the trap, but this cat would just sort of 1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:02.280 check it out. Mosey on. We got, you know, camera 1:34:02.320 --> 1:34:05.840 footage of him just walking right past, just breezing on by. 1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:09.040 We not even stopping. He just comes through but then 1:34:09.160 --> 1:34:09.679 takes off. 1:34:09.880 --> 1:34:12.559 Yeah, like he's just walking by, maybe looks at it, 1:34:12.600 --> 1:34:17.000 but keeps going. And he was driving us nuts. I 1:34:17.000 --> 1:34:20.640 got a little obsessed. And he would. Then we'd go 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:22.439 out to the rest of our line, be out all day, 1:34:22.479 --> 1:34:25.120 be coming back, and there'd be fresh tracks. One of 1:34:25.120 --> 1:34:28.360 our a couple, oh yeah, a couple of our trappers 1:34:28.400 --> 1:34:32.040 saw him just sauntering down the road right by one 1:34:32.080 --> 1:34:44.120 of our traps. Never could get him. That brings me 1:34:44.160 --> 1:34:47.560 to our bonus cat. This fall, we had maybe a 1:34:47.600 --> 1:34:53.479 little bit of a vanditta and we were like Moby Dick. 1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:59.719 He was our white whale. So we decided to do 1:34:59.760 --> 1:35:03.360 just a little bonus trapping. And so this fall, before 1:35:03.400 --> 1:35:07.680 the snow even flew. I went out there, and I 1:35:08.479 --> 1:35:10.720 wanted to condition him to the traps. And this is 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:14.639 a technique that is used in career trapping and bobcat 1:35:14.680 --> 1:35:17.360 trapping for research, but I'd never used it for length. 1:35:17.840 --> 1:35:22.240 And so I took a full quarter, so a nice 1:35:22.240 --> 1:35:24.599 big chunk of meat. I drilled a hole in the bone, 1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:27.840 cabled it and staked it down so nothing could come. 1:35:27.920 --> 1:35:29.200 Wolves couldn't come and take it. 1:35:29.400 --> 1:35:30.519 Cable it through the bone. 1:35:30.800 --> 1:35:32.920 Yeah, I didn't want because bears were still out. I 1:35:32.960 --> 1:35:35.760 didn't want somebody dragging it off. So I staked that 1:35:35.840 --> 1:35:40.160 sucker down. Then I set a trap maybe six feet away. 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:43.000 Not the door was tied open, it was just there 1:35:43.080 --> 1:35:46.040 and ready to go. So the idea was a Links 1:35:46.200 --> 1:35:49.240 could come start nibbling on that bait, get a little 1:35:49.400 --> 1:35:52.120 taste for what we've got, and get used to the 1:35:52.200 --> 1:35:54.439 trapp being there. And we had a camera on it. 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:59.960 So I set four of those stations in this area 1:36:00.160 --> 1:36:03.760 where I knew this this Links went a lot. Three 1:36:03.840 --> 1:36:07.040 nights later, I checked the camera and he'd come and 1:36:07.120 --> 1:36:13.840 started eating that bait, and so great, Jay's nothing else. 1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:17.680 So I moved it closer to the trap, so the 1:36:17.720 --> 1:36:21.120 part it was partly in the door. Waited he didn't. 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:24.719 He came back ate some of that. I was like, oh, buddy, yeah, 1:36:24.840 --> 1:36:28.639 it's on and uh, within a week. We probably could 1:36:28.640 --> 1:36:31.719 have done it faster, but we were. It just worked 1:36:31.760 --> 1:36:34.040 out that within like a week and a half, he 1:36:34.160 --> 1:36:37.519 was eating bait that was in the middle of the trap. 1:36:38.040 --> 1:36:40.639 And then once I saw that, that night I put 1:36:40.880 --> 1:36:43.320 at all the bait stations meet in the back of 1:36:43.360 --> 1:36:47.479 the trap and he came that night and we caught 1:36:47.520 --> 1:36:49.559 him just the first night that the traps were actually set. 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:50.679 Mature cat. 1:36:51.000 --> 1:36:54.960 Oh, beautiful, biggest cat we've caught in Washington. 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:56.160 He was thirty one. 1:36:59.200 --> 1:37:03.519 No, he was a beautiful, just really nice cat. I mean, 1:37:03.600 --> 1:37:07.760 just holding him, he wasn't that old, maybe three to five. 1:37:07.800 --> 1:37:09.640 It's really hard. We age him just based on how 1:37:09.720 --> 1:37:12.280 much where they have on their teeth, but it's it's rough. 1:37:12.439 --> 1:37:14.000 It's really hard to tell. But he wasn't an old 1:37:14.040 --> 1:37:17.640 grandpa by any means. Put a collar on him and 1:37:17.720 --> 1:37:18.679 he's out and about. 1:37:18.960 --> 1:37:20.639 Did he just get the hell out of town when 1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:21.160 you let him go? 1:37:21.920 --> 1:37:22.160 No? 1:37:22.479 --> 1:37:25.960 No, he So we let him go. He jumped out 1:37:25.960 --> 1:37:28.680 of the trap and then just stopped and then just 1:37:28.720 --> 1:37:29.639 sauntered off. 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:32.759 But his ass is never going back in a trap. 1:37:32.800 --> 1:37:37.240 Now, well, here's the thing. The first links will and 1:37:37.240 --> 1:37:44.400 and other animals too, will get trap happy where they realize, Okay, 1:37:44.640 --> 1:37:47.960 I can yeah, exactly, I can go in that trap, 1:37:48.040 --> 1:37:50.599 get a pound or two of free meat. They'll come 1:37:50.600 --> 1:37:53.040 and let me go in the morning. So we had 1:37:53.240 --> 1:37:58.880 the first no they I mean, it's it makes sense. 1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:00.679 The first hat that we caught. 1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:03.160 I imagine how scary it's got to be. A person 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:03.760 shows up. 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:07.840 It's worth it, apparently. I mean, that's a lot of meat, 1:38:08.280 --> 1:38:10.439 and it's there every night, and if you let them 1:38:10.439 --> 1:38:13.200 out early, they can go to another trap for that afternoon. 1:38:14.120 --> 1:38:15.200 We've had that happen. 1:38:16.720 --> 1:38:18.040 Like that. 1:38:18.040 --> 1:38:20.000 That cat was real hard to catch. Is there are 1:38:20.040 --> 1:38:22.640 other cats you've just caught over and over again. 1:38:22.520 --> 1:38:25.679 Right, So the first one you can't keep away, right right. 1:38:25.760 --> 1:38:28.160 The first links that we caught last winter, he was 1:38:28.240 --> 1:38:32.439 like that. He he was his personality was such that 1:38:32.520 --> 1:38:35.320 he was just not as cautious and he went right 1:38:35.360 --> 1:38:37.920 in the trap. I think probably the first time he 1:38:38.000 --> 1:38:41.519 saw one of our traps, he went in. He ate 1:38:41.560 --> 1:38:44.880 the bait. We came the next morning, we processed him, 1:38:45.000 --> 1:38:47.599 We let him go and I don't remember how long later, 1:38:47.640 --> 1:38:50.160 but he figured it out and then from then on, 1:38:50.680 --> 1:38:53.120 it was almost every morning he'd be in a trap 1:38:53.160 --> 1:39:01.240 and we have to let him go. Here's our snowmobile 1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:03.320 come and he's like, oh, they're sending a trap over there. 1:39:03.320 --> 1:39:05.639 I got to check that out. So we we had 1:39:05.680 --> 1:39:07.760 to just start ripping traps out of his home range 1:39:07.760 --> 1:39:09.800 as fast as seriously, yeah, because. 1:39:09.520 --> 1:39:11.719 It was something might happen to him eventually. 1:39:11.800 --> 1:39:14.240 Right, Well, I guess there's could be some risk of that, 1:39:14.320 --> 1:39:18.720 but we're really careful. But he was, I mean, he 1:39:18.840 --> 1:39:23.559 was just banging up our trap line and because he's 1:39:23.840 --> 1:39:30.880 collecting data now, so he was he was ruining his data. Yeah, 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:33.280 if we run an analysis, would be like, well link 1:39:33.280 --> 1:39:38.200 select trap lines and traps. So yeah, so we tried 1:39:38.360 --> 1:39:40.280 not to let it come to that, but he's he's 1:39:40.560 --> 1:39:43.000 kind of putting a wrench in our game this year 1:39:43.040 --> 1:39:45.760 because there's a female that it overlaps with that we've 1:39:45.760 --> 1:39:48.400 gotten on camera that we'd love to trap, but it's 1:39:48.479 --> 1:39:49.959 kind of a no go zone because. 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:51.600 We know he's just going to be, oh, he'll just 1:39:51.640 --> 1:39:52.280 plug it all up. 1:39:52.400 --> 1:39:53.240 Yeah, exactly. 1:39:53.320 --> 1:39:56.840 Have you ever Okay, there's by there's bycatch, So I 1:39:56.880 --> 1:39:59.000 want you to do bycatch, I want you to do 1:39:59.160 --> 1:40:01.840 what the different says you see and how these things 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:03.719 move and what they're doing once you get a collar 1:40:03.760 --> 1:40:05.559 on them. There's a thing I want to ask. 1:40:05.720 --> 1:40:08.240 I want to know what they got to worry about, 1:40:08.360 --> 1:40:10.000 like as far as oh. 1:40:09.960 --> 1:40:13.920 Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. So bycatch, how they're acting. 1:40:14.439 --> 1:40:16.880 And then when you get them, when you get a 1:40:16.920 --> 1:40:18.800 collar on, they die. Where are they dying from? 1:40:19.160 --> 1:40:19.559 Yeah? 1:40:20.320 --> 1:40:22.360 Do you have collared right now? 1:40:22.400 --> 1:40:23.639 We have three on air? 1:40:24.040 --> 1:40:26.800 Okay, on air collared. 1:40:26.520 --> 1:40:31.000 Collared callers are functioning. They're giving us data. Yeah, so 1:40:31.640 --> 1:40:32.920 where did you get the first one? 1:40:33.640 --> 1:40:36.280 By catchy catch, it all turns up in your traps. 1:40:36.760 --> 1:40:37.960 We get a lot of Grade. 1:40:37.800 --> 1:40:41.120 J's still walking area. 1:40:41.520 --> 1:40:43.840 Oh yeah. And then once they find a trap, they 1:40:43.840 --> 1:40:46.240 can be kind of a pest. But that that is 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:49.280 one of the drawbacks of our trigger system, that mouse 1:40:49.280 --> 1:40:52.559 trap system, is that it's so sensitive that uh, you know, 1:40:52.680 --> 1:40:54.680 a Grade J goes in there and they're setting the 1:40:54.720 --> 1:40:57.680 trap off. Weasels go in there, certainly, but they can 1:40:57.680 --> 1:40:59.880 get out. There's enough, you know, they can just squeeze out. 1:41:00.080 --> 1:41:01.160 They throw the door first. 1:41:01.640 --> 1:41:05.040 Sometimes they're also so short they often go under under 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:08.040 the trip line. We got ssh hairs I've. 1:41:07.840 --> 1:41:09.519 Had after just whatever. 1:41:10.120 --> 1:41:12.519 Well, they'll eat the boughs off of our traps, but 1:41:12.600 --> 1:41:14.960 they also just it's a little hiding spot, so they'll 1:41:14.960 --> 1:41:18.720 go in there. I've caught a snowshoe hair in a 1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:22.200 trap and then it was just being circled by a 1:41:22.280 --> 1:41:25.920 lynx trying to get it. Yeah, so that is that 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:27.280 makes me want to vomit. 1:41:27.400 --> 1:41:30.960 Yeah, that's a rough night, man. Yeah, so did you 1:41:31.000 --> 1:41:32.600 add him to the bait pile? Did you let him go? 1:41:33.640 --> 1:41:37.639 We let him go? Yeah, let's see. But more exciting 1:41:37.680 --> 1:41:41.200 by catch. We caught a bobcat last year, which I 1:41:41.240 --> 1:41:43.719 was surprised it didn't break out of that trap because. 1:41:43.479 --> 1:41:46.439 They're That was what Mercer was saying, because he's used 1:41:46.439 --> 1:41:48.760 to bobcats. I remember he was saying when I first 1:41:48.800 --> 1:41:51.080 connected you guys, he was saying that he was worried 1:41:51.080 --> 1:41:52.920 that that wouldn't hold them, and you were saying, well, 1:41:52.960 --> 1:41:55.480 links are chill compared, like they don't fight the trap. 1:41:55.360 --> 1:42:01.160 Right, Yeah, and I so bombcats and links are pretty 1:42:01.640 --> 1:42:06.280 pretty different personalities for lack of a better word, where 1:42:06.840 --> 1:42:10.360 bobcats are just like go them flying demons, because especially 1:42:10.360 --> 1:42:13.880 in like a foothold, they are just going nuts. Their 1:42:13.920 --> 1:42:17.439 stress response is the fight or flight, and in a 1:42:17.479 --> 1:42:19.800 box trap, you know, they're all over the place and 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:24.400 they'll I've had a bust out of you know, manufactured 1:42:24.680 --> 1:42:26.919 all metal traps. 1:42:28.280 --> 1:42:30.840 They put a collar on the bobcat you caught, no 1:42:32.240 --> 1:42:32.760 want that. 1:42:35.240 --> 1:42:39.559 Links tend to go into freeze as their stress response. 1:42:39.920 --> 1:42:42.599 They'll they'll test the walls of the trap a little bit, 1:42:42.720 --> 1:42:45.120 but they're not they're not working hard on getting out, 1:42:45.439 --> 1:42:49.479 and so they'll tend to just sort of hunker down 1:42:49.640 --> 1:42:51.479 a little bit more in the trap. So that's why 1:42:51.479 --> 1:42:53.760 we can use these traps. I would not use them 1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:55.400 for any other type of cat. 1:42:56.160 --> 1:42:58.400 Wolverine's gonna be out of there in a second. 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:01.120 Yeah, a fisher would be out of there in a second. 1:43:01.280 --> 1:43:02.000 Have you caught those? 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:04.760 We actually did so we you know. 1:43:05.040 --> 1:43:06.559 We're almost caught one or whatever. 1:43:07.400 --> 1:43:10.360 Well, I've caught them a lot links trapping in other 1:43:10.400 --> 1:43:15.760 areas in Maine. Here very surprising because we don't have 1:43:15.960 --> 1:43:18.120 technically on the east slope of the Cascades in our 1:43:18.160 --> 1:43:21.120 area a population of fisher. But we did catch one. 1:43:21.200 --> 1:43:23.160 Luckily it wasn't in one of our chicken wire traps. 1:43:23.160 --> 1:43:26.920 We were borrowing some some manufactured traps and it was 1:43:26.960 --> 1:43:28.880 in one of those, so that was pretty exciting. 1:43:30.680 --> 1:43:32.519 Definitely, Not what about Martin. 1:43:34.400 --> 1:43:37.759 I have caught lots of Martin. Either we're not catching 1:43:37.920 --> 1:43:40.360 Martin in our traps or they're getting out. I think 1:43:40.360 --> 1:43:42.719 we're not catching them because again we're in a burned area, 1:43:42.760 --> 1:43:43.840 so there's not a ton of Martin. 1:43:43.920 --> 1:43:44.200 Got you. 1:43:44.720 --> 1:43:50.800 Yeah, Yeah, let's see other by catch that's red foxes. Nope, 1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:55.920 we also barely if any have those no coyotes, no 1:43:56.120 --> 1:43:58.519 a cane, it is going to be they're not They 1:43:58.520 --> 1:44:00.519 do not want to go into a box trap. They're 1:44:00.560 --> 1:44:01.320 way too wary. 1:44:02.200 --> 1:44:03.960 They might pass through, but they're not going to put 1:44:04.000 --> 1:44:04.519 their head in there. 1:44:04.600 --> 1:44:08.519 Yeah. Yeah, I've had now bobcat trapping I've had I've 1:44:08.560 --> 1:44:12.160 had cougars go into the traps, but they're so big 1:44:12.200 --> 1:44:14.680 that the doorge just falls on their butt. Yeah, and 1:44:14.720 --> 1:44:17.160 they just back out. But they can be a problem. 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:19.880 And you're doing most of you're trapping after the bears 1:44:19.920 --> 1:44:22.360 have denned up, so they're not trash in your traps. 1:44:22.520 --> 1:44:24.479 Yeah, that's a big part of why we trap in winter, 1:44:24.680 --> 1:44:27.320 so we're not having to deal with that now this fall. 1:44:27.800 --> 1:44:30.200 I was willing to sacrifice a trap or two if 1:44:30.240 --> 1:44:32.160 if we were going to catch this, We're going to 1:44:32.240 --> 1:44:34.280 catch this links. 1:44:34.960 --> 1:44:39.559 So what are you seeing on like anything surprising and 1:44:39.600 --> 1:44:42.800 how they're used, how far they're going, or like that 1:44:42.920 --> 1:44:44.760 you let them go and they kind of hang out 1:44:45.560 --> 1:44:48.240 in the immediate vicinity, they go to the next state, 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:48.880 or what do they do. 1:44:49.760 --> 1:44:53.000 I mean, what's been surprising to me is like I 1:44:53.040 --> 1:44:55.719 said that they're not moving that far, that they're making 1:44:55.960 --> 1:44:59.320 home ranges entirely within this burn and so far, I 1:44:59.360 --> 1:45:01.720 mean it's we only have three you know cats on air, 1:45:01.760 --> 1:45:04.920 but so far they are not giant home ranges, which 1:45:05.000 --> 1:45:08.280 could indicate that it's decent habitat. They're not having to 1:45:08.320 --> 1:45:11.320 go super far. This this burn is big enough that 1:45:11.360 --> 1:45:13.840 as we sort of move our trap line north, maybe 1:45:13.840 --> 1:45:16.040 the conditions are different up there and maybe it won't 1:45:16.040 --> 1:45:18.120 be the same story. But at least the links we 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:22.960 have on air right now are making a pretty tight 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:23.719 home range. 1:45:24.000 --> 1:45:26.880 When do they rout what's their previous season. 1:45:26.920 --> 1:45:31.760 Uh, March February and then they have kittens May June. 1:45:32.320 --> 1:45:35.400 Have you maybe probably doesn't work. If you had a 1:45:35.439 --> 1:45:39.800 female and then at that time and you knew where 1:45:39.800 --> 1:45:42.400 they were, it might be plausible that there'd be like 1:45:42.479 --> 1:45:45.000 multi like more males in that area. Or is that 1:45:45.080 --> 1:45:47.760 not that that's not something really factors in. 1:45:48.280 --> 1:45:49.800 Oh, like if we see she's like a. 1:45:49.840 --> 1:45:52.080 Jewdas, she winds up being like a Judas animal, right 1:45:52.720 --> 1:45:55.160 like that with her, you know that in her zone 1:45:55.640 --> 1:45:56.840 there's gonna be cats coming through. 1:45:57.120 --> 1:46:01.840 Yeah, I mean they all move so much. If I 1:46:01.920 --> 1:46:04.400 knew where a female was, I'd certainly be setting traps 1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:07.000 there anyway, because we want to get female cats on air. 1:46:07.040 --> 1:46:11.080 You want to have males, all males on air right now? 1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:15.120 Yeah, yeah, right now. The males are more apt to 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:16.599 go in a trap in general. 1:46:16.760 --> 1:46:19.920 In general, So, have you had any cats get immortality signal? 1:46:20.000 --> 1:46:22.280 Have you had any cats die while while collared? 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:24.280 Yeah? And that was a bummer because it was the 1:46:24.280 --> 1:46:27.600 one female that we caught last year. So we caught 1:46:27.800 --> 1:46:31.760 a female and it was a really cool handling. It 1:46:31.800 --> 1:46:37.000 was just you know how some times when you're hunting, 1:46:37.040 --> 1:46:39.960 there's there's a deer you get that just feels special 1:46:39.960 --> 1:46:43.360 because of everything around it, the scenery, the day, the whatever. 1:46:44.000 --> 1:46:46.120 This was kind of one of those those moments with 1:46:46.200 --> 1:46:52.240 this cat. We we caught this female lynx and she 1:46:52.439 --> 1:46:55.360 had a kitten with her, and this was in March. 1:46:55.760 --> 1:46:58.960 And so this kitten is you know, pretty almost full grown. 1:46:59.000 --> 1:47:00.800 It's almost the kittens outside of the trap. 1:47:00.880 --> 1:47:04.120 It's outside of the females in Yeah. And so I 1:47:04.240 --> 1:47:07.320 was right in my snowmobile checking the line, checking the line, 1:47:07.320 --> 1:47:08.920 and I'm looking up at the next trap and I 1:47:09.000 --> 1:47:10.720 just see it wiggle a little bit, and I just 1:47:10.880 --> 1:47:13.360 jam on the brakes and I go up there and 1:47:13.560 --> 1:47:18.960 there's this female links in the trap and I can 1:47:19.000 --> 1:47:22.320 see kitten footprints around it where he's been, you know, 1:47:22.400 --> 1:47:27.760 trying to be close to her. And as I was 1:47:27.800 --> 1:47:30.200 waiting for the rest of the team to meet me 1:47:30.280 --> 1:47:34.200 to do the handling and collaring, I heard and saw 1:47:34.240 --> 1:47:36.439 that that kitten was kind of checking in with her 1:47:36.439 --> 1:47:38.680 and he was just sitting up on a hill above her. 1:47:39.120 --> 1:47:40.000 Plus it was just. 1:47:39.880 --> 1:47:41.240 This making what noise. 1:47:41.640 --> 1:47:44.320 It's like a little sort of bird, little. 1:47:45.280 --> 1:47:51.040 Make the noise. I'll do it till I get it. 1:47:51.080 --> 1:47:59.040 Right, Okay, No more like uh, we're like yeah, got 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:01.960 it now. They make some real ugly noises. This was 1:48:02.120 --> 1:48:05.280 probably one of the cuter noises they make, but in general, no, 1:48:05.600 --> 1:48:08.080 in general, they sound like they're throwing up or something. 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:13.439 They kind of make this yowling demon noise, the cornered Nope, 1:48:13.520 --> 1:48:14.479 just talking to each other. 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:15.000 You hear it? 1:48:15.200 --> 1:48:19.560 Yeah, okay, yeah, anyway. 1:48:19.360 --> 1:48:22.120 So hit me with the demon noise. It's like that, 1:48:22.560 --> 1:48:24.120 oh is that right? Like that that weird? 1:48:24.280 --> 1:48:27.400 It's weird. It's not. It's not a cute cat noise. 1:48:27.560 --> 1:48:29.240 Like someone wouldn't be like that must be a lynx. 1:48:29.560 --> 1:48:34.960 No, you'd be like, what was that. There's some some 1:48:35.000 --> 1:48:36.880 cool YouTube where you can hear them. 1:48:37.000 --> 1:48:39.560 Okay, yeah, uh. 1:48:39.600 --> 1:48:43.280 Anyway, So I'm sitting there, I'm alone with this, with 1:48:43.320 --> 1:48:45.519 this cat. I'm at a distance. We like to try 1:48:45.520 --> 1:48:47.320 and keep them as calm as we can because it 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:50.439 just it's a better experience for them. The drugs works better, 1:48:50.920 --> 1:48:52.559 everything just goes better if they're calm. So I'm a 1:48:52.600 --> 1:48:58.040 distance away. But it's this cold, beautiful, snowy high mountain day, 1:48:58.120 --> 1:49:00.479 this sort of meadow with a creek in it, and 1:49:00.520 --> 1:49:03.600 then these you know, trees and burnt trees along the 1:49:03.640 --> 1:49:05.800 side of it. It's snowing. It was. It was just 1:49:05.840 --> 1:49:10.040 one of those moments and then we you know, crew arrived, 1:49:10.040 --> 1:49:12.640 we processed this cat, and. 1:49:14.479 --> 1:49:17.880 You just for the audience, can you go like quick 1:49:17.960 --> 1:49:19.479 rundown of what processing is? 1:49:21.320 --> 1:49:23.559 Stretchy. 1:49:26.720 --> 1:49:33.640 So, when we're handling any wildlife species, it's our professional 1:49:33.680 --> 1:49:38.360 responsibility and our our ethics to do it in the 1:49:38.400 --> 1:49:40.120 most humane way possible. 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:44.480 And you're dealing with you're dealing with a feederally, yeah, threatened. 1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:49.120 Speed exactly, And so we baseline whenever, no matter what 1:49:49.200 --> 1:49:52.640 species we're trapping, we have a really high bar for 1:49:52.720 --> 1:49:55.799 how we do things and how we try to minimize 1:49:55.800 --> 1:49:59.800 stress and obviously minimize risk and all of that because 1:49:59.800 --> 1:50:00.080 it's I. 1:50:00.520 --> 1:50:04.160 Interrupted real quest. A friend of mine was doing doc banding, 1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:06.640 and I don't want to tell you who said this, 1:50:06.880 --> 1:50:10.200 but he was doing doc banding and his boss told him, 1:50:10.240 --> 1:50:12.519 if you're not killing birds, you ain't working hard enough. 1:50:13.720 --> 1:50:16.280 That's doc I was going to tell you that in 1:50:16.280 --> 1:50:19.240 your links area. It was just a funny thing that 1:50:19.280 --> 1:50:22.400 he remembers being told because he was like, very they're 1:50:22.439 --> 1:50:25.680 doing those nets and everything was very dainty, and the 1:50:25.720 --> 1:50:27.960 guys like, listen, we gotta get some birds banded here, 1:50:28.360 --> 1:50:28.960 Like there's going. 1:50:28.920 --> 1:50:32.040 To be some Yeah, I mean I think I get 1:50:32.120 --> 1:50:34.320 the gist of what he was saying. But I think 1:50:34.400 --> 1:50:36.040 there's a little bit of a tide change. 1:50:36.120 --> 1:50:39.240 No, no, I'm not giving you professional advice, was I 1:50:39.280 --> 1:50:40.400 was just observing that. 1:50:40.520 --> 1:50:43.840 I was just remarking on that and standing up for 1:50:43.880 --> 1:50:46.800 the wildlife profession. I think that we're getting a little 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:50.720 as we're getting more thoughtful yeah about these things and 1:50:50.760 --> 1:50:57.439 refining techniques. So anyway, we have a really high bar 1:50:57.560 --> 1:51:00.360 of how we do things and animal safety and all this. 1:51:00.920 --> 1:51:05.720 So everything we do is geared around minimizing stress. So 1:51:06.120 --> 1:51:10.280 when we do a handling, it's it's all whispering, it's 1:51:10.360 --> 1:51:14.320 it's all reading the cat's body language, using our body 1:51:14.400 --> 1:51:19.720 language to seem as minimally aggressive and threatening. And so 1:51:20.680 --> 1:51:22.360 when we've got a cat in the trap, first thing 1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:24.679 we do is we put a big sheet over the trap. 1:51:24.880 --> 1:51:27.639 That just helps calm the cat. It's just cuts down 1:51:27.640 --> 1:51:31.639 on visual stimulation. Obviously, we have to drug the cat 1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:35.280 or we can't handle it. So the way we're doing 1:51:35.320 --> 1:51:38.360 that is we've got it's called a syringe pole. It's 1:51:38.479 --> 1:51:39.960 it's a pole and on the end of it is 1:51:39.960 --> 1:51:44.320 a plunger and you you put your your drugs in 1:51:44.400 --> 1:51:47.720 a syringe. But the pole is now the plunger, if 1:51:47.720 --> 1:51:50.880 that makes sense. So that when you so. 1:51:50.840 --> 1:51:53.280 That when you a little bit yep. 1:51:53.080 --> 1:51:56.080 You you wait until the cat's in the right position. 1:51:56.120 --> 1:51:57.880 You want to get it ideally in the it's butt 1:51:58.320 --> 1:52:00.320 right and it's haunched and that meat there, and you 1:52:00.439 --> 1:52:03.519 just you slowly bring it in the trap and you 1:52:03.560 --> 1:52:05.200 just poke it in the butt and just push a 1:52:05.240 --> 1:52:06.240 little bit and that's it. 1:52:06.400 --> 1:52:07.280 And what's that drug. 1:52:08.000 --> 1:52:13.240 We are using a mix of ketamine and metatomitine. So 1:52:13.280 --> 1:52:18.400 what that does is the but you don't want to 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:21.160 use your straight ketamine because it's a really it makes 1:52:21.200 --> 1:52:24.360 them really rigid. There's risk of seizure and different side effects. 1:52:24.960 --> 1:52:26.880 It's it's a very safe drug. But we can do 1:52:27.080 --> 1:52:31.680 a little bit better and give them a more relaxed sedation. 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:33.240 They out or just grog. 1:52:33.800 --> 1:52:36.280 They are out out. You want them out out. I 1:52:36.320 --> 1:52:38.160 mean think about if if you're going to get an 1:52:38.200 --> 1:52:42.599 ear tag and be handled by you know, this alien species, 1:52:42.600 --> 1:52:45.360 you'd want to be out out, no memory, Yeah, you 1:52:45.400 --> 1:52:47.479 want to be out. So we we drug them and 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:53.160 they are unresponsive. You know you could you could you know, 1:52:53.320 --> 1:52:55.120 do surgery on them if that's what you were doing. 1:52:55.840 --> 1:52:58.439 Obviously we're not. You drug them, you bring them out 1:52:58.439 --> 1:53:01.640 of the trap once they're ready. Again, it's always just 1:53:01.680 --> 1:53:04.559 minimizing that stress. And so we put an imask on 1:53:04.640 --> 1:53:07.760 them and we're minimizing even like touching it, because that's 1:53:07.800 --> 1:53:11.160 just more stimulation. And if they are more stimulated, the 1:53:11.240 --> 1:53:13.880 drugs don't work as well. They've got to burn through 1:53:13.960 --> 1:53:17.000 more stress. And so the last thing you want is 1:53:17.000 --> 1:53:18.920 your cat waking up before you're ready. And so we're 1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:22.880 doing everything to just make that a smooth, calm ride 1:53:22.960 --> 1:53:27.599 for the cat. And so the handling what we're doing 1:53:28.080 --> 1:53:30.599 is the primary goal is to get this GPS caller 1:53:30.600 --> 1:53:34.320 on them. They're little callers that will take a GPS 1:53:34.360 --> 1:53:38.759 point on collection days every thirty minutes and that shoots 1:53:38.800 --> 1:53:40.719 up to space and then shoots down to my computer 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:43.840 and so every couple of days I'll get an update 1:53:43.840 --> 1:53:46.479 of what that cat's been doing. So that's our primary goal. 1:53:46.520 --> 1:53:48.240 But and that thing eventually falls off or what. 1:53:48.760 --> 1:53:51.000 Yeah, they have a little release mechanism that you can 1:53:51.040 --> 1:53:56.519 program that does a tiny, tiny, little explosion, but on 1:53:56.560 --> 1:54:00.240 a micro scale, and it just parts the piece SIT's 1:54:00.240 --> 1:54:02.519 holding it together and it'll drop off. Really yeah, So 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:05.080 February you could go grab it if you want to, exactly. Yeah, 1:54:05.080 --> 1:54:07.479 so February second, hopefully that's what we'll be doing. That's 1:54:07.520 --> 1:54:09.320 when our our colls will drop off. 1:54:09.360 --> 1:54:11.320 Really coming right up, coming right up. 1:54:11.800 --> 1:54:15.559 Yeah, So it's getting the collar on, but you're also 1:54:15.840 --> 1:54:19.080 you're you're you've got this cat that needs you know, 1:54:19.160 --> 1:54:21.880 it doesn't that the drugs can depress their respiration and 1:54:21.920 --> 1:54:23.680 temperature and things like this, and so you're having to 1:54:23.720 --> 1:54:26.120 regulate and make sure that that the cat's safe. 1:54:26.120 --> 1:54:28.720 And so is that collar valuable? You need to go 1:54:28.760 --> 1:54:30.439 get it because it's valuable, or you just go get 1:54:30.479 --> 1:54:30.920 it because of. 1:54:32.600 --> 1:54:34.920 We will theoretically have had all the data on it. 1:54:34.960 --> 1:54:36.560 But it's just another way to get it. You can 1:54:36.600 --> 1:54:39.360 have them refurbished, doesn't save you that much money, but yeah, 1:54:39.400 --> 1:54:40.680 they are expensive. 1:54:41.040 --> 1:54:43.160 But but going and getting it doesn't. It's not like 1:54:43.200 --> 1:54:45.839 a financial reason to go get it, not really. 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:50.120 Okay, Yeah, anyway, so during the handling, a really important 1:54:50.200 --> 1:54:55.560 job is to be monitoring temperature, respiration, heart rate, you know, 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:58.280 these sorts of things, so that if things start to 1:54:58.360 --> 1:55:02.440 drift out of you know, a the correct zone of temperature, 1:55:02.560 --> 1:55:04.400 heart rate, and respiration, we can correct that. 1:55:04.560 --> 1:55:07.840 And you have a drug that helps with that. Like 1:55:07.920 --> 1:55:09.200 let's say you oded it on an. 1:55:09.160 --> 1:55:12.400 Accident, that's really unlikely. The drugs we use have a 1:55:12.440 --> 1:55:16.240 they have a huge safety margin. We're not gonna do it, yeah, 1:55:16.440 --> 1:55:21.240 but there are drugs it. You know, there's there's different 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:24.880 things that could happen. For example, I had a bear 1:55:24.920 --> 1:55:27.360 and this is more common embarrassed for whatever reason with 1:55:27.400 --> 1:55:30.240 some drugs where the breathing got a little too shallow 1:55:30.640 --> 1:55:33.160 and interrupted for my comfort. I had a drug with 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:35.280 that just gave it a little bit of that boom 1:55:35.400 --> 1:55:40.560 started breathing well. So we have tools for these common 1:55:40.720 --> 1:55:42.720 things that might go wrong. We've got drugs for if 1:55:42.720 --> 1:55:45.560 they have a seizure, things like that, or I mean, 1:55:45.600 --> 1:55:48.080 if it's temperature, it's it's putting snow in its armpits, 1:55:48.560 --> 1:55:51.800 or if it's hot, Yeah, if it gets too hot, 1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:54.680 if it gets too cold, we've got we've got we 1:55:54.680 --> 1:55:57.440 always have them in blankets on a on a foam 1:55:57.480 --> 1:56:02.040 pad we have If they get really cool, we have 1:56:02.120 --> 1:56:04.240 socks and we can put little handwarmers in there and 1:56:04.280 --> 1:56:07.440 put socks on all of its feet. So we're prepared 1:56:07.520 --> 1:56:11.280 for for a lot. But these things, you know, hopefully 1:56:11.800 --> 1:56:15.440 by keeping that stress level down. That's one really good 1:56:15.440 --> 1:56:17.760 way to make sure things are just smooth and steady. 1:56:17.760 --> 1:56:22.400 Are you also taking samples for like DNA, genetics, disease, stuff. 1:56:22.080 --> 1:56:24.440 Like that, or we're not taking blood. We're not, we're 1:56:24.440 --> 1:56:27.280 not looking at disease. If we had a cat that 1:56:27.400 --> 1:56:30.800 something seemed wrong, we'd certainly take a lot of notes 1:56:30.800 --> 1:56:33.320 about that. If it had an unusual parasite load, we'd 1:56:33.320 --> 1:56:34.320 probably collect that. 1:56:35.560 --> 1:56:39.440 We just know that from scat analysis. Like, how would 1:56:39.440 --> 1:56:41.680 you know if we had a parasite load, Well. 1:56:41.480 --> 1:56:44.320 If you see them they sometimes have tapeworms, or if 1:56:44.320 --> 1:56:46.640 they had an exorminant amount of ticks or fleas or 1:56:46.680 --> 1:56:48.880 lice or something like that, we'd probably collect that. Right, 1:56:50.880 --> 1:56:54.280 We do collect DNA, So when we give them a 1:56:54.320 --> 1:56:57.120 ear tag, we first rather than just jamming the ear 1:56:57.160 --> 1:56:59.240 tag through, you take a little biopsy punch and it 1:56:59.240 --> 1:57:01.120 makes a little hole and then we've got that little 1:57:01.160 --> 1:57:04.640 tissue sample. So call her a couple of DNA samples. 1:57:04.840 --> 1:57:10.400 No tattoos, no tattoos, no need for that. We're not 1:57:10.520 --> 1:57:11.160 pit tagging. 1:57:12.360 --> 1:57:13.240 What's the ear tag for? 1:57:14.080 --> 1:57:18.280 The ear tag is so that if it shows up 1:57:18.280 --> 1:57:20.160 on a camera, you might be able to read that number. 1:57:20.240 --> 1:57:22.120 It's also got my phone number on it, so if 1:57:22.120 --> 1:57:25.080 somebody finds its carcass, they could call us and we'd 1:57:25.120 --> 1:57:27.800 know what was going on years down the road. You know, 1:57:27.800 --> 1:57:30.200 if it's the callers come off and we retrap it, 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:31.560 we know who it is. 1:57:31.880 --> 1:57:35.080 Well, you never finished what you were saying the female 1:57:35.520 --> 1:57:38.280 Oh yeah, you don't have on it's no longer on air. 1:57:38.280 --> 1:57:41.920 Right right, so right, yeah, So I was describing what 1:57:41.960 --> 1:57:43.880 a cool handling that was, and we let her go 1:57:44.360 --> 1:57:46.840 and there was this just incredible moment of getting to 1:57:46.880 --> 1:57:49.520 watch her and her kitten reunite and and you know, 1:57:50.120 --> 1:57:52.760 go off. And we're ecstatic about this because now we've 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:56.920 got a female links using the burned area, and to 1:57:57.040 --> 1:58:00.800 know what habitat of female links is you us is 1:58:01.520 --> 1:58:06.280 really that's just gold because they're the ones reproducing. And 1:58:06.320 --> 1:58:08.920 so if if if there are things we can learn 1:58:08.920 --> 1:58:12.840 about how to support a female links, all the better. 1:58:13.360 --> 1:58:16.480 So we're really excited about that. We're really hopeful that 1:58:16.520 --> 1:58:19.760 maybe we'll see where she's detting and and be able 1:58:19.800 --> 1:58:25.520 to learn about that type of habitat. Anyway, a month later, 1:58:26.040 --> 1:58:29.000 these callers, if they stop moving for eight hours will 1:58:29.000 --> 1:58:32.960 give a mortality signal, and and that pushes an email 1:58:33.000 --> 1:58:35.480 to me. So I wake up Sunday morning, check my 1:58:35.560 --> 1:58:38.160 email and there's a there's a mortality email. 1:58:38.440 --> 1:58:39.600 What's the subject line? 1:58:41.280 --> 1:58:44.280 It might have been the number and mortality or something. 1:58:44.520 --> 1:58:49.960 Something comes in an email and just makes your Yeah, 1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:54.640 it's a right, yeah, it's not when you want. I mean, 1:58:54.920 --> 1:58:56.320 mortalities are fascinating. 1:58:57.360 --> 1:58:59.120 Just the delivery mechanism of an email. 1:58:59.280 --> 1:59:04.080 Yeah, yeah, they don't. They don't sugarcoat it or pack no. No, 1:59:05.240 --> 1:59:08.800 So I I shoot out there. Our season has ended, 1:59:08.800 --> 1:59:11.360 but there's still a ton of snow, and I went 1:59:11.400 --> 1:59:14.440 out there with a biologist colleague and friend and it 1:59:14.600 --> 1:59:17.640 was this kind of a harrowing adventure to get to 1:59:17.760 --> 1:59:24.240 this spot. But once we got there, we were a 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:27.800 little bit hamstringed because her caller was not transmitting a 1:59:27.920 --> 1:59:30.920 v h F, which that's the little radio beep beep 1:59:30.960 --> 1:59:34.840 that you can hone in on. It wasn't it's not 1:59:34.920 --> 1:59:38.320 worth explaining, but it wasn't on that day. So we 1:59:38.320 --> 1:59:40.400 we get to the area where we know. 1:59:40.520 --> 1:59:44.120 She is ish and how big How big is this. 1:59:45.840 --> 1:59:51.800 Maybe a two hundred meter radius, But if there's snow 1:59:51.880 --> 1:59:53.640 on top of her or if she's in a hole 1:59:53.760 --> 1:59:57.680 or something. Those GPS points that that she was spitting 1:59:58.320 --> 2:00:01.600 could be pretty off. Plus it has just snowed that 2:00:01.720 --> 2:00:05.840 night into the morning, and so we get to this spot. 2:00:05.920 --> 2:00:10.360 We'd had a hike a bunch on the snowmobile trail. 2:00:11.280 --> 2:00:13.960 She's not very far from the snowmobile trail, but she's 2:00:14.040 --> 2:00:16.720 down in a little metal with a creek in this 2:00:16.840 --> 2:00:19.560 burned area. And like I said, there's a fresh blanket 2:00:19.600 --> 2:00:24.520 of snow, and that right there is devastating for mortality 2:00:24.520 --> 2:00:27.480 site investigation because so much of the of what you're 2:00:27.560 --> 2:00:30.480 learning is from track and sign that you're seeing around. 2:00:30.840 --> 2:00:34.040 We're not going to have that. We start hiking down 2:00:34.080 --> 2:00:38.680 this creek and there was a kyote that had gone through, 2:00:39.040 --> 2:00:41.400 and it must have been sometime that morning because there 2:00:41.440 --> 2:00:44.440 wasn't much snow in its tracks. Those are only tracks 2:00:44.880 --> 2:00:48.800 we're seeing, and we sort of note that. We get 2:00:48.800 --> 2:00:51.040 to the area where we think she is ish and 2:00:51.480 --> 2:00:54.800 and it's just there's zero sign of anything. I put 2:00:54.800 --> 2:01:01.360 my bag down, sort of rummaging around, and the guy 2:01:01.400 --> 2:01:03.960 I'm with he is thinking about those kyot tracks and 2:01:04.000 --> 2:01:06.720 he's starting to circle and he sees those kyoutracks. He 2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:10.320 cuts some of these things, I should just follow those tracks. 2:01:10.720 --> 2:01:15.000 And within very quickly he saw where those tracks had 2:01:15.000 --> 2:01:19.000 gone up to where a big log had fallen. But 2:01:19.120 --> 2:01:21.400 picture feet and feet and snow of snow, and they're 2:01:21.400 --> 2:01:23.880 stow on the log and stead of draping over the log. 2:01:24.160 --> 2:01:27.400 And so it's the snow cave with a little crack 2:01:27.440 --> 2:01:29.640 of space along the side of it, and then the 2:01:29.680 --> 2:01:32.840 front of it you could see down into the snow cave. 2:01:33.280 --> 2:01:37.720 The coyote had come and stuck its head down in 2:01:37.760 --> 2:01:41.640 that little cave opening, and so that prompted him to 2:01:41.760 --> 2:01:45.240 also look at that cave opening, and that's where she was. 2:01:45.320 --> 2:01:49.560 So he saw what he saw was the lynx I 2:01:49.560 --> 2:01:53.240 wouldn't say curled up, but sort of flopped over a 2:01:53.240 --> 2:01:59.720 bit dead. Yeah, dead, And it looked as though she 2:01:59.760 --> 2:02:03.560 had intentionally gone under there to die. And so we 2:02:03.560 --> 2:02:08.800 we pulled her out and she was completely frozen, and 2:02:08.840 --> 2:02:12.800 we did an examination there. There was a slight abrasion 2:02:12.840 --> 2:02:15.560 on her face. That was all we saw. And so 2:02:16.320 --> 2:02:18.600 we and and like I said, there were no other 2:02:19.040 --> 2:02:22.960 track inside. We couldn't backtrack to see, you know, just 2:02:22.960 --> 2:02:25.600 looked in there and moved on. That was it. So 2:02:25.920 --> 2:02:29.080 we thought nothing obvious here. This isn't a predation event. 2:02:30.200 --> 2:02:33.000 You know, we're not there. We have no clues other 2:02:33.080 --> 2:02:35.440 than she seemed to intentionally go under that log, and 2:02:35.480 --> 2:02:39.120 that always makes you think disease when they, you know, 2:02:39.160 --> 2:02:41.640 have sort of curled up in an intentional spot and 2:02:41.720 --> 2:02:46.920 just died. So we put her in my backpack, hiked 2:02:46.920 --> 2:02:49.920 her out, and then I shipped her to a lab 2:02:50.000 --> 2:02:52.000 to do a knee cropsy because they can do all 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:56.240 the pathology and you know, test for different diseases. Turns 2:02:56.280 --> 2:02:59.160 out they didn't have to do that. They they skinned 2:02:59.160 --> 2:03:02.280 her out and then their amination found that cause of 2:03:02.320 --> 2:03:05.440 death was blunt force trauma and so she had some 2:03:05.480 --> 2:03:11.120 broken ribs and some bleeding internally and that's all we know, 2:03:11.720 --> 2:03:14.440 and we can speculate about how that may have happened, 2:03:14.560 --> 2:03:18.720 but we don't know. One idea is that, because this 2:03:18.880 --> 2:03:22.040 was only about, you know, four hundred yards from the 2:03:22.040 --> 2:03:28.440 snowmobile trail, she could have been hit. They're not. That 2:03:28.520 --> 2:03:31.280 has happened before in other states that we know of. 2:03:31.600 --> 2:03:35.440 They get hit by cars. People you know, rip around 2:03:35.520 --> 2:03:39.720 up there. So that's one idea, or you know, you 2:03:39.760 --> 2:03:41.400 can come up with any number of other sort of 2:03:41.400 --> 2:03:42.240 freak accidents that. 2:03:42.240 --> 2:03:46.080 Could not got hit by not bit. 2:03:47.520 --> 2:03:52.000 There are no puncture wines, no puncture winds. I don't know, 2:03:52.960 --> 2:03:55.440 snow corn is broke that it was standing on and 2:03:55.480 --> 2:03:59.800 it fell on a rock or I don't know, kicked 2:03:59.800 --> 2:04:01.920 by a moose, which seems really unlikely to me. But 2:04:01.960 --> 2:04:02.760 that's been floated. 2:04:04.720 --> 2:04:05.440 That's not that wild. 2:04:05.560 --> 2:04:07.440 Some people, well, I don't know, I don't know. 2:04:07.640 --> 2:04:11.000 I just you know one time we uh killed a 2:04:11.040 --> 2:04:15.720 meal deer and its whole underside was totally infected and 2:04:15.800 --> 2:04:18.880 it was full of porcupine quills. Oh yeah, like what 2:04:19.040 --> 2:04:21.919 is the scenario? It was jumped, it walked over porcupine 2:04:21.960 --> 2:04:25.520 and the portpine fo Yeah. Probably, so just weird, you know, 2:04:25.560 --> 2:04:28.200 I mean, yeah, weird to only being that, like who 2:04:28.240 --> 2:04:29.640 knows Mayne, Yeah, I mean. 2:04:29.720 --> 2:04:32.040 I've seen some weird stuff out there, So yeah, you 2:04:32.080 --> 2:04:35.520 don't it could have been anything. But anyway, that's all 2:04:35.520 --> 2:04:38.040 we'll know. So she so we got a month of 2:04:38.120 --> 2:04:41.720 data from her and that was it. Unfortunately, I'm hoping. 2:04:43.760 --> 2:04:47.880 Let's see. Later that season, we caught a Lynx kitten. 2:04:47.920 --> 2:04:49.480 And when I say kitten, you know, it was almost 2:04:49.480 --> 2:04:51.920 a year old. But it was. It was too small 2:04:52.000 --> 2:04:53.600 to call her, so we gave it an ear tag 2:04:53.840 --> 2:04:56.720 and sent it on its way. I don't know for sure, 2:04:56.760 --> 2:04:59.440 we don't have the DNA yet, but it was in 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:03.200 her zone. That may have been her kitten, and so 2:05:03.240 --> 2:05:05.840 it will be interesting to see if he shows up 2:05:05.840 --> 2:05:08.120 this winter, if he made it through you know, the 2:05:08.160 --> 2:05:13.680 rest of his his year having prematurely lost his mom. 2:05:14.200 --> 2:05:17.040 Yeah, we'll see, man, I could see that having a 2:05:17.080 --> 2:05:19.720 female and finding out what she does around danding season 2:05:19.760 --> 2:05:20.520 be cool as hell. 2:05:20.600 --> 2:05:24.160 Yeah, dens are Linkstons are really cool and that's what. 2:05:24.320 --> 2:05:26.360 They like, cracks and rocks or. 2:05:26.720 --> 2:05:29.919 They will use a lot of different things. They often 2:05:30.680 --> 2:05:34.560 are in mature forests where there's lots of down logs, 2:05:34.640 --> 2:05:38.320 just total jackstraw, and they'll find a gnarly spot in 2:05:38.360 --> 2:05:42.120 there because that's going to protect him from cougar or 2:05:42.160 --> 2:05:45.760 probably not cougar's but wolves. And so they'll find a 2:05:45.800 --> 2:05:49.600 gnarly spot in these just giant piles of logs and 2:05:49.640 --> 2:05:52.879 going to there. I've seen them in hollowed out stump 2:05:53.520 --> 2:06:00.520 rock crevices, slash piles in cut areas, upturned Well, they 2:06:00.560 --> 2:06:01.880 just they need a nice bit of cover. 2:06:02.080 --> 2:06:04.200 Yeah, cool to have that. 2:06:04.640 --> 2:06:06.960 Yeah, how much do they got to worry about cougars 2:06:06.960 --> 2:06:07.600 and wolves? 2:06:07.880 --> 2:06:09.760 They have to worry about cougars. Ye, they have to 2:06:09.800 --> 2:06:12.880 worry about cougars places where there's lots of fishers. That's 2:06:12.920 --> 2:06:17.200 been the mature ones I've been. 2:06:17.760 --> 2:06:19.240 Fisher can outduk. 2:06:19.200 --> 2:06:23.320 They can, I mean, come on, Yeah, they're reasels. 2:06:22.840 --> 2:06:26.680 Man losing a lot of respect for links. Here a fisher, 2:06:26.760 --> 2:06:28.000 a fisher can whoop a Lynx. 2:06:29.000 --> 2:06:32.920 Yeah. Yeah. I've been to several more links mortalities where 2:06:32.920 --> 2:06:36.160 it was a fisher and one I can remember in particular. 2:06:36.240 --> 2:06:37.360 They can whoop porcupine. 2:06:37.640 --> 2:06:41.200 Yep, so can the links or a bobcat. 2:06:41.240 --> 2:06:42.200 The links will be all to do it. 2:06:42.560 --> 2:06:44.760 Yeah, that's not a normal prey item, but they can 2:06:44.880 --> 2:06:47.760 do it. Yeah. I've seen where Lynx was curled up 2:06:47.800 --> 2:06:49.760 in the snow and then you see the fisher tracks 2:06:49.760 --> 2:06:51.640 come and it basically just jumped it in its bed. 2:06:52.040 --> 2:06:52.520 Huh. 2:06:52.560 --> 2:06:56.560 They are when you see them and they see links 2:06:56.680 --> 2:06:59.640 look big. A lot of that's just linky ness and 2:06:59.680 --> 2:07:03.000 there they're so fuzzy, especially in the summer. Their average 2:07:03.040 --> 2:07:05.920 weight is the same as a bobcat pretty much. 2:07:05.960 --> 2:07:06.800 They're just lankier. 2:07:07.120 --> 2:07:09.880 There's lankier and fuzzier. 2:07:10.480 --> 2:07:12.520 They look like something if it got a little bit 2:07:12.520 --> 2:07:15.200 of blunt force trauma, it's not gonna live. Yeah, cause 2:07:15.200 --> 2:07:17.880 it's just like they're like they're just so spread out 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:19.680 and slender. 2:07:19.200 --> 2:07:22.200 And yeah, they're they're they're not meant to take a hit. Yeah, 2:07:22.240 --> 2:07:24.240 when you pick one up, it's like, whoa, this is 2:07:24.320 --> 2:07:26.240 like a little bird. I mean, they're meant to float 2:07:26.320 --> 2:07:26.760 on the snow. 2:07:26.880 --> 2:07:30.760 Yeah, they're not climbers, Like, they don't go into trees much, right. 2:07:30.640 --> 2:07:33.120 Don't go into trees. But it's not like a daily 2:07:33.200 --> 2:07:35.840 thing by any means. Yeah, Yeah, they're more of they'll 2:07:35.880 --> 2:07:38.680 just bed right in the snow and some cover and. 2:07:38.680 --> 2:07:40.640 They don't throw it. They don't throw any claw mark 2:07:40.720 --> 2:07:43.240 on a track, right, it's just like a regular cougar bobcat. 2:07:43.280 --> 2:07:44.960 Like their claws are retracted. 2:07:46.200 --> 2:07:49.200 Well I mean like any feelid. Yeah, they're their claws 2:07:49.240 --> 2:07:52.760 retract and so often most often probably you're not going 2:07:52.840 --> 2:07:55.680 to see their their claws register. But if they're in 2:07:55.760 --> 2:07:58.880 slippery substrate and they need an. 2:07:58.760 --> 2:08:00.480 Electra grip, they'll pull see it come out. 2:08:00.480 --> 2:08:00.760 Oh yeah. 2:08:00.800 --> 2:08:03.000 Yeah. In fact, that that track, that picture you were 2:08:03.040 --> 2:08:05.960 talking about earlier, where there was a snowshoe, hair tracks 2:08:05.960 --> 2:08:07.720 and the links going after it. It was going up 2:08:07.720 --> 2:08:09.760 a steep bank and you can see it's it's closed. 2:08:10.800 --> 2:08:11.320 Click them out. 2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:14.360 Yeah, it's like that guy in his toils climbing up 2:08:14.760 --> 2:08:15.600 John new Banks. 2:08:15.680 --> 2:08:17.240 Yeah. 2:08:17.400 --> 2:08:28.200 You use them when you need them. 2:08:28.640 --> 2:08:32.800 So what, uh? Where? Tell me where Home Range Wildlife is? 2:08:32.880 --> 2:08:35.400 Right now? So you have a nonprofit and this is 2:08:35.400 --> 2:08:38.840 all done as a nonprofit. The nonprofit has employees. You're 2:08:38.880 --> 2:08:41.919 one of the employees of nonprofit. Yeah, what is uh? 2:08:42.480 --> 2:08:44.200 You know, we've kind of followed you through your career 2:08:44.240 --> 2:08:49.040 a little bit. Yeah, are you guys like in in 2:08:49.440 --> 2:08:51.880 We're gonna make it? Is it? You don't know what 2:08:51.960 --> 2:08:53.200 you're gonna be doing in five years? 2:08:54.440 --> 2:08:56.160 We know what we want to be doing in five years. 2:08:56.320 --> 2:08:59.960 We've got, you know, all sorts of plans. 2:09:00.360 --> 2:09:02.120 I mean, is Home Range Wildlife viable? 2:09:02.760 --> 2:09:06.760 We are according to the little like non start you're 2:09:06.760 --> 2:09:10.120 starting a nonprofit. Take this quiz with your board to 2:09:10.120 --> 2:09:14.880 see where you're at you're starting. Yeah, yeah, we are 2:09:14.920 --> 2:09:18.040 still in the struggle phase, which basically means we are 2:09:18.240 --> 2:09:21.200 I mean, it's hard work. We are having to hustle 2:09:21.760 --> 2:09:25.360 big time. Yeah, oh yeah, big time. So we're it's 2:09:25.400 --> 2:09:28.960 not like we're just cruising financially. We're in the hustle phase, 2:09:29.360 --> 2:09:33.760 but that is not stopping us. So right now there's 2:09:33.800 --> 2:09:37.839 three of us that are full time, so co founder 2:09:37.840 --> 2:09:45.600 and I and a super badass woman who who started 2:09:45.720 --> 2:09:49.480 on the Links project and we've just we've kept her on. Uh. 2:09:49.520 --> 2:09:52.640 And then we've got seasonal texts, so we've got some 2:09:52.680 --> 2:09:56.680 seasonal texts. We wrap community scientists into our work, so 2:09:56.720 --> 2:09:59.280 we've got community scientists that will go out and help 2:09:59.320 --> 2:10:02.800 with the backtrack portion, so we part of the study 2:10:02.880 --> 2:10:05.600 is not just coloring, it's also going out and tracking 2:10:05.680 --> 2:10:10.280 links and recording their exact really bind scale habitat use. 2:10:10.480 --> 2:10:12.720 Yeah, you explain that backtracking because you don't want to 2:10:12.720 --> 2:10:15.840 bump them exactly. Backtracking ain't as fun as forward track. 2:10:16.200 --> 2:10:19.080 Well, if you're less likely to see the animal, it 2:10:19.200 --> 2:10:20.520 is still fun. 2:10:20.880 --> 2:10:22.560 Picture, but you know you kind of want to be like, 2:10:22.680 --> 2:10:23.400 let's just go after it. 2:10:23.880 --> 2:10:26.280 Yeah, well, but then we're messing up the data, right, 2:10:26.560 --> 2:10:28.160 and then you spook it exactly. 2:10:28.800 --> 2:10:30.760 It starts evading you, right. 2:10:30.520 --> 2:10:32.880 And so part of what we're looking at also is 2:10:33.320 --> 2:10:38.120 from reading the tracks what they're doing behaviorally, because that 2:10:38.160 --> 2:10:41.080 can help us figure out, Okay, of the habitats that 2:10:41.120 --> 2:10:44.920 they'll use for various things. Where are they hunting, where 2:10:44.920 --> 2:10:48.200 they trying to hunt, where they're actually making kills, where 2:10:48.200 --> 2:10:51.400 they're hunting and they're successful. That is like the best 2:10:51.400 --> 2:10:51.760 of the best. 2:10:52.040 --> 2:10:53.600 When they kill a snow issue, do they mop that 2:10:53.640 --> 2:10:55.280 whole thing up or do they leave something behind? 2:10:55.640 --> 2:10:58.720 They will usually mop it up, except maybe a foot 2:10:58.800 --> 2:11:02.480 or two the guts and for whatever reason, a patch 2:11:02.560 --> 2:11:05.840 of the of the hide from the back. And then 2:11:05.840 --> 2:11:09.000 I'll often have like hemorrhaging in it. You'll see where 2:11:09.040 --> 2:11:13.840 it was I see. Sometimes usually they'll eat it, especially 2:11:13.920 --> 2:11:18.000 if there's not a lot of snowshoe hairs around. They 2:11:18.040 --> 2:11:21.640 may cash it to save something for later, but usually 2:11:21.640 --> 2:11:22.360 they're just eating it. 2:11:22.680 --> 2:11:24.200 When you find a link scat and the winter, is 2:11:24.200 --> 2:11:26.280 it white because the snowshoe hair hair. 2:11:27.000 --> 2:11:28.560 Yeah, it has white hair in it, but it's not 2:11:28.640 --> 2:11:31.160 like it's still yeah still dark. Yeah, that meat, the 2:11:31.200 --> 2:11:33.680 meat makes a really dark scat, especially the organ. 2:11:33.840 --> 2:11:35.520 You'll be on the tofts. You'll see that it's white. 2:11:35.600 --> 2:11:37.360 Yeah, you can. If you picked it up and looked 2:11:37.360 --> 2:11:38.560 at it, you'd see it was white hair. 2:11:38.480 --> 2:11:39.320 White hair inside there. 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:42.520 Yeah, a little chunks of bone, little chunks of bone 2:11:43.120 --> 2:11:44.080 toenails and stuff. 2:11:45.120 --> 2:11:48.320 So explain again where you guys are at on like 2:11:48.400 --> 2:11:52.120 the long term viability. You're struggling the struggle phase results 2:11:52.200 --> 2:11:52.920 kick out struggle. 2:11:53.320 --> 2:11:56.960 But I would say it's clear that we're We've got 2:11:56.960 --> 2:12:04.440 a lot of momentum and a lot of support from agencies, 2:12:05.520 --> 2:12:10.680 our community. We're partnering with the university on the project, 2:12:11.080 --> 2:12:15.440 so we've got a master's student on the project. But 2:12:15.760 --> 2:12:18.879 it's just it's hard to raise money for a nonprofit 2:12:18.920 --> 2:12:22.200 and we're not like the normal This isn't the normal path. 2:12:22.320 --> 2:12:27.880 Usually wildlife research is done by universities or the agencies, 2:12:28.360 --> 2:12:30.800 and so this is there are there are other organizations 2:12:30.840 --> 2:12:34.360 that do it, but this is somewhat unique and so 2:12:35.200 --> 2:12:39.400 we're really lucky that we are partnering with agencies and 2:12:39.480 --> 2:12:43.160 the universities. But a large part of our money also 2:12:43.200 --> 2:12:47.360 comes from fundraising, and so that's that's kind of a 2:12:47.400 --> 2:12:47.920 whole new. 2:12:48.600 --> 2:12:51.400 Who's using all the data you're collect Are you turning 2:12:51.440 --> 2:12:53.720 it over to the US Fish and Wildlife so's. 2:12:53.800 --> 2:12:56.400 Yeah, So that's a huge part of our mission is 2:12:56.440 --> 2:13:01.240 to be doing research that is address seeing what we 2:13:01.280 --> 2:13:06.200 see is really urgent conservation issues in our area. And 2:13:06.280 --> 2:13:11.240 so this whole project is geared towards having results that 2:13:11.280 --> 2:13:16.280 can inform land management and LINKS conservation because for LINKS, 2:13:17.120 --> 2:13:20.640 a large part of LINKS conservation is habitat conservation. 2:13:21.040 --> 2:13:23.640 But can home range wildlife exists as just a LINKS 2:13:23.640 --> 2:13:25.400 research org or at some point you're gonna have to 2:13:25.480 --> 2:13:26.480 jump into something else. 2:13:27.720 --> 2:13:30.200 I could. I would love to make this a really 2:13:30.280 --> 2:13:32.800 long term project because there's a lot of value in 2:13:32.840 --> 2:13:37.480 those long term data data sets. And that's also another one. 2:13:37.480 --> 2:13:40.640 A part another part of our values is to be 2:13:40.760 --> 2:13:46.680 an organization that is really boots on the ground and 2:13:47.120 --> 2:13:51.120 have our research and biology be really based in the 2:13:52.160 --> 2:13:56.800 naturalist skills that we have. This is not universally true, 2:13:56.840 --> 2:14:00.840 but there's a trend towards a lot more modeling and 2:14:00.880 --> 2:14:05.400 the sort of you know, office based research, which is 2:14:05.440 --> 2:14:08.360 really valuable, but it can't be at the expense of 2:14:08.600 --> 2:14:12.240 people who are out there on the landscape and who 2:14:12.880 --> 2:14:17.520 are good naturalists and who are there long term. 2:14:17.640 --> 2:14:20.640 Well, the model with without your work, the model is 2:14:20.720 --> 2:14:23.720 the modelers don't have anything to do. I mean, your 2:14:23.720 --> 2:14:25.720 work is what's going to tell them is the home range. 2:14:25.480 --> 2:14:28.680 Of a female It compliments, right, It compliments, but there's. 2:14:28.480 --> 2:14:30.920 Also like they have to have something to plug in. 2:14:31.160 --> 2:14:32.640 They have to have something to plug in. But there's 2:14:32.680 --> 2:14:34.680 a lot out there that can plug plug in, and 2:14:34.720 --> 2:14:37.240 there's a lot out there like right now, like I 2:14:37.360 --> 2:14:39.600 was saying, this is sort of this whole new habitat 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:43.680 habitat paradigm with all the burns, and so it is 2:14:43.760 --> 2:14:47.600 so important that we're not only building models based on 2:14:47.640 --> 2:14:49.880 what we think we already know, but we're going back 2:14:49.920 --> 2:14:52.920 to the drawing board and learning from the landscape and 2:14:52.960 --> 2:14:57.440 the links and again long term, that's that's a I 2:14:57.440 --> 2:14:59.840 think something that's also being somewhat lost in wild life 2:14:59.920 --> 2:15:02.680 is there's so much turnover and people are hopping around. 2:15:03.160 --> 2:15:07.200 That's sort of through line for an area where you've 2:15:07.200 --> 2:15:09.480 got bios that have been there for decades and have 2:15:09.640 --> 2:15:14.080 seen changes and been noting things. We're losing that somewhat 2:15:14.520 --> 2:15:16.520 and we do not want to see that happen in 2:15:16.560 --> 2:15:19.600 the met how we're sort of the generation of biologists 2:15:19.640 --> 2:15:22.480 that have been there for decades and know that landscape 2:15:22.480 --> 2:15:25.640 intimately and have seen it change and are just good 2:15:25.800 --> 2:15:29.000 naturalists that like to be out there, and they're the 2:15:29.000 --> 2:15:31.840 ones that are going to notice I'm not hearing as 2:15:31.880 --> 2:15:35.600 many X y Z bird or you know, we're not. 2:15:36.200 --> 2:15:39.240 They're just noticing those changes. And that takes being out 2:15:39.280 --> 2:15:41.800 there and being there long term. And so that's what 2:15:41.800 --> 2:15:44.440 we want home range to be because we're losing some 2:15:44.560 --> 2:15:48.040 of these these long term bios. They're retiring, and so 2:15:48.600 --> 2:15:50.920 we want to make sure that there's somebody always watching 2:15:50.960 --> 2:15:51.680 there in the value. 2:15:52.280 --> 2:15:54.360 You know what I could use some help with. I 2:15:54.400 --> 2:15:57.880 was telling you, Mike Gright before we started recording. They 2:15:57.920 --> 2:16:02.800 have everything south of us. They have as this Lynx 2:16:02.840 --> 2:16:07.680 recovery area, okay, and there's all these separate trapping regulations 2:16:07.680 --> 2:16:11.040 in the Links recovery area. Now, I've had furbear biologists 2:16:11.080 --> 2:16:13.560 tell me that most of the stuff in the Lynx 2:16:13.600 --> 2:16:16.400 recovery area has never had a lynx and never will 2:16:16.440 --> 2:16:20.080 have a lynx. It's completely wrong. Habitat. 2:16:21.160 --> 2:16:26.360 Are you talking about like Yellowstone that area that well, no, 2:16:26.400 --> 2:16:27.720 it's everything around that. 2:16:27.600 --> 2:16:35.120 It's huge, everything south of town everything, Okay. A friend 2:16:35.120 --> 2:16:36.480 of mine in the four Service who's doing a lot 2:16:36.480 --> 2:16:39.480 of Links work, he even said, you know, our understanding 2:16:39.520 --> 2:16:43.600 of what Link's habitat is has gotten very refined since 2:16:43.640 --> 2:16:46.440 that went into effect. He pictures sometimes down the road 2:16:47.120 --> 2:16:49.800 that could be eased up because it's just not representative 2:16:49.760 --> 2:16:52.240 of Link's habitat. He said. If they go to do that, 2:16:52.240 --> 2:16:54.760 that'll get the hell litigated out of it. When they 2:16:54.800 --> 2:16:56.680 come out and say, you know what, we were wrong. 2:16:56.959 --> 2:16:59.520 This is Link's habitat, that's not Link's habitat. It'll get 2:16:59.560 --> 2:17:03.560 litigated because people will want to keep restrictions in place. 2:17:05.040 --> 2:17:09.080 The debate will get weaponized. I would love if you 2:17:09.120 --> 2:17:12.600 guys came in collared a couple links so people could 2:17:12.600 --> 2:17:15.640 see where they hang out and where they don't because 2:17:15.640 --> 2:17:19.680 they're not down in the juniper in rock piles. Yeah 2:17:20.160 --> 2:17:20.920 you agree or don't? 2:17:21.040 --> 2:17:23.879 I mean, let me explain that with a little more nuance. 2:17:24.240 --> 2:17:26.080 So links, we'll, kay, I give you one more tidbit, 2:17:26.200 --> 2:17:28.160 let's get it. I have a friend who's a lion hunter. 2:17:28.200 --> 2:17:31.480 He's been hunting lions here twenty years. Okay, hunts all 2:17:31.480 --> 2:17:34.080 over the state in twenty years. He's yet to cut 2:17:34.080 --> 2:17:36.040 a LINKS track in this area. 2:17:36.200 --> 2:17:36.480 Yeah. 2:17:36.560 --> 2:17:38.880 Now, unless you think he doesn't think there's any links. 2:17:39.240 --> 2:17:42.240 When he goes to Region one, he sees more LINKS 2:17:42.320 --> 2:17:45.600 tracks than bobcats and mountain lions. Combined. So this is 2:17:45.640 --> 2:17:47.480 not a guy that doesn't say there's no links tracks. 2:17:47.480 --> 2:17:50.520 He's like, the Links Recovery area ain't got links. 2:17:50.760 --> 2:17:51.160 Yeah. 2:17:51.360 --> 2:17:55.080 So I was talking earlier that there's five populations. There's 2:17:55.120 --> 2:18:00.440 six areas that have been designated as by Vision wild 2:18:00.440 --> 2:18:04.560 Life Services critical habitat, and that one is not. There's 2:18:04.680 --> 2:18:08.160 not a known population there. Now there have been intermittent sightings, 2:18:08.200 --> 2:18:10.720 you know, but there's not a known breeding population there. 2:18:13.000 --> 2:18:16.840 It's possible that in the future there could be. It's possible. 2:18:17.400 --> 2:18:24.560 The other thing is that wild links are fairly specialized 2:18:24.640 --> 2:18:29.920 in their habitat, meaning boreal forest. They move so much 2:18:30.440 --> 2:18:36.040 that they'll they'll use just about anything to move through. So, 2:18:36.240 --> 2:18:38.720 I mean, I'm not a land manager down there. I 2:18:38.760 --> 2:18:40.520 don't know the area and all that, so I can't 2:18:40.560 --> 2:18:42.200 say too much about it, but I. 2:18:42.120 --> 2:18:44.280 Could say this. I could say, Hey, you shouldn't be 2:18:44.280 --> 2:18:47.920 able to set certain kind of traps because little children 2:18:48.280 --> 2:18:52.160 generally aren't lost. But a little child could get lost anywhere, 2:18:52.720 --> 2:18:54.800 and you shouldn't have that set because how can we 2:18:54.840 --> 2:18:57.600 say that a little child wouldn't get lost and get 2:18:57.600 --> 2:19:00.720 caught in that set. I don't know. Maybe I've heard 2:19:00.720 --> 2:19:02.000 of little children getting lost. 2:19:02.200 --> 2:19:04.480 Yeah, I don't know. You have to take it up 2:19:04.520 --> 2:19:05.560 with fish and wildlife. 2:19:05.879 --> 2:19:07.560 That's no, I'm taking that with you because you got 2:19:07.560 --> 2:19:09.760 to go collar some links and even though there aren't 2:19:09.760 --> 2:19:12.520 you there, maybe cut one loose and see what it does. 2:19:13.800 --> 2:19:16.800 All right, I'll try trapping anywhere. 2:19:17.600 --> 2:19:21.000 That's all, Okay, good? This is I have a huge 2:19:21.000 --> 2:19:24.120 list of gripes that I'd like to get addressed. This 2:19:24.280 --> 2:19:28.720 is like low you know. My first one is Universal 2:19:28.760 --> 2:19:31.920 Hunter's orange policy. Just a hat somewhere below that is 2:19:31.920 --> 2:19:34.400 his links for covering unit issue. But it's some day. 2:19:34.440 --> 2:19:36.040 I'm going to get to all this. All right, I'm 2:19:36.080 --> 2:19:36.640 going to take it up. 2:19:37.400 --> 2:19:37.960 Look for your letter. 2:19:42.200 --> 2:19:43.840 I have a problem. I think I know where that 2:19:43.879 --> 2:19:47.760 letter is going to wind up. Where's the recycling been? 2:19:49.360 --> 2:19:49.600 No? 2:19:50.000 --> 2:19:52.400 How do people find you and support your organization? I 2:19:52.400 --> 2:19:54.440 love I love what you guys doing. You know, it's 2:19:54.520 --> 2:19:57.520 like and it really resonates with listeners who love it 2:19:57.560 --> 2:20:00.000 that people are out on the land, find it out 2:20:00.400 --> 2:20:04.440 studying wildlife. Right, everybody's got their like myths about stuff 2:20:04.480 --> 2:20:07.120 and what lives were and what don't live where, and 2:20:07.160 --> 2:20:09.600 to have someone come and say here's what lives there 2:20:09.640 --> 2:20:12.280 here's how many, here's what they do. It's valuable. Yeah, 2:20:12.360 --> 2:20:14.640 I mean it's information, right, yeah, like real. 2:20:14.480 --> 2:20:20.360 Information exactly, and it's well. Yeah, So the work that 2:20:20.400 --> 2:20:24.600 we do is research, and so that I think sometimes 2:20:24.720 --> 2:20:28.199 is hard for the broader public to connect with because 2:20:28.200 --> 2:20:32.880 it doesn't feel like I'm directly this organization is directly 2:20:33.000 --> 2:20:37.640 helping that animal. We're doing the research. That's one step, 2:20:37.680 --> 2:20:41.119 but a really important step in knowing how to manage 2:20:41.120 --> 2:20:46.080 and conserve species. That's slightly more abstract. But I feel 2:20:46.160 --> 2:20:49.840 like in my short experience running a nonprofit that and 2:20:50.200 --> 2:20:55.320 after last year's experience with doing the Traffic Cat fundraiser 2:20:55.360 --> 2:20:59.520 with you, I feel like I just have so much 2:21:00.640 --> 2:21:04.880 gratitude for the hunting and fishing community because I feel 2:21:04.879 --> 2:21:09.800 like you guys get it, and that that fundraiser was 2:21:09.879 --> 2:21:17.720 such a success because people really put out and saved us. 2:21:18.080 --> 2:21:22.320 You guys really saved us last year from having just 2:21:23.000 --> 2:21:26.120 her old ass LEDs just completely die and that would 2:21:26.160 --> 2:21:30.560 just shut us down. That's such crux equipment. And so 2:21:30.640 --> 2:21:36.920 the fact that this audience just gets that research and 2:21:37.040 --> 2:21:42.400 learning about wildlife populations and managing the populations is really valuable, 2:21:42.879 --> 2:21:45.240 not just saving an individual animal. 2:21:46.320 --> 2:21:46.400 Is. 2:21:47.720 --> 2:21:49.600 That just gives me a lot of hope that there's 2:21:49.720 --> 2:21:51.840 there's this audience that really understands that. 2:21:52.160 --> 2:21:54.760 Can I tell you something. My brother, who's a he's 2:21:54.800 --> 2:21:57.680 a fisheries researcher in Alaska told me he was one 2:21:57.720 --> 2:22:00.360 time describing me the difference between Alaska and the Lower 2:22:00.400 --> 2:22:04.800 forty eight, as he said, in the Lower forty eight, 2:22:06.360 --> 2:22:11.160 you're kind of you're in conservation phase, preservation phase, right, 2:22:12.080 --> 2:22:13.600 he said. One of the things that makes me in 2:22:13.640 --> 2:22:18.600 research and Alaska different is we're still in how discovery 2:22:18.600 --> 2:22:23.280 phase in a lot of ways, like where are sam 2:22:23.320 --> 2:22:25.040 you know, you know, like where are salmon? How many 2:22:25.080 --> 2:22:27.280 salmon are there? You know? What are these things doing? 2:22:27.680 --> 2:22:28.000 Yeah? 2:22:28.040 --> 2:22:32.360 And what's cool is you're in a case of you're 2:22:32.400 --> 2:22:37.360 facilitating discovery. Right. It's like there's this thing, there's this 2:22:37.400 --> 2:22:39.800 cat that lives here. How many I don't know, where 2:22:39.840 --> 2:22:41.000 do they live? I don't know, how do they use 2:22:41.040 --> 2:22:43.760 a landscape? I don't know. It's like discovery science, right, 2:22:43.879 --> 2:22:49.120 it's not sort of you know, it's not specifically saving something. 2:22:49.160 --> 2:22:51.960 It's just trying to like understand our world, you know. 2:22:52.040 --> 2:22:54.160 But I would I mean, I would say, especially in 2:22:54.200 --> 2:22:56.800 this case, it is how do we save this species? 2:22:57.120 --> 2:23:00.480 It leads to that. Yeah, it leads to that. Granted 2:23:00.480 --> 2:23:02.039 I'm not trying to blittle it, but I'm saying it's 2:23:02.080 --> 2:23:05.720 like you're discovering things about right, You're discovering about how 2:23:05.800 --> 2:23:07.560 animals relate to their environment. 2:23:07.680 --> 2:23:08.480 Yeah, that's true. 2:23:08.520 --> 2:23:09.120 It is. It's this. 2:23:09.400 --> 2:23:11.520 Yeah, things have changed out there in the last twenty years, 2:23:11.560 --> 2:23:13.119 and so we're trying to catch up and learn that. 2:23:13.320 --> 2:23:15.440 As far as saving them goes, if you had to 2:23:15.480 --> 2:23:19.080 make a prediction like state of the links in the 2:23:19.080 --> 2:23:22.320 lower forty eight whatever, like twenty years or fifty years, 2:23:22.360 --> 2:23:25.920 like what would you be comfortable saying like. 2:23:25.959 --> 2:23:28.480 They needed to burn more stuff in two thousand and six. 2:23:28.440 --> 2:23:32.000 Like are they gonna? Are they doing well? Is it 2:23:32.080 --> 2:23:32.720 bad news? 2:23:32.800 --> 2:23:33.600 Is it good news? 2:23:33.640 --> 2:23:36.720 It all depends on what we do. If we do nothing, 2:23:37.080 --> 2:23:40.640 it's not looking great. Especially for Washington, it is not 2:23:40.720 --> 2:23:44.280 looking great. Yeah, because of these I mean these just 2:23:44.360 --> 2:23:47.520 sweeping fires are just The worry is that they burn 2:23:48.800 --> 2:23:53.439 enough in a short enough time frame. Then that's skewing 2:23:53.480 --> 2:23:57.840 the landscape towards that recently burned there's not much of 2:23:57.840 --> 2:24:02.520 that structure that we need type of landscape. Whereas if 2:24:02.520 --> 2:24:06.640 we can just have patches that burn here, patches that 2:24:06.680 --> 2:24:09.520 burn here, then you've always got some of something out there, 2:24:10.120 --> 2:24:15.160 and you've got enough of that structure, that forest structure 2:24:15.200 --> 2:24:17.520 that links and hairs need that you're supporting the population, 2:24:17.879 --> 2:24:21.240 but you've got enough burning going on that you are 2:24:21.680 --> 2:24:26.160 reinstilling some resilience onto that landscape because all those those 2:24:26.160 --> 2:24:29.800 little burns are acting like little speed bumps for subsequent fires. 2:24:30.240 --> 2:24:34.120 And so if we can figure out ways to if 2:24:34.160 --> 2:24:36.960 we understand how links use burned habitat, then we know 2:24:37.440 --> 2:24:41.039 how much of that they need and how much we 2:24:41.160 --> 2:24:48.520 can spare for reinstilling that resilience to fire or yeah, 2:24:48.560 --> 2:24:51.680 because it's it feels like opposing objectives when you talk 2:24:51.680 --> 2:24:54.920 about conserving links habitat because they need that thick forest. 2:24:55.280 --> 2:24:57.199 That's a lot of fuels. And so when you're trying 2:24:57.240 --> 2:25:01.560 to trying to save links habitat that short term while 2:25:01.600 --> 2:25:05.000 simultaneously slow fires just for the ecology of the area 2:25:05.920 --> 2:25:09.080 to bring that that that fire resiliency back and to 2:25:09.120 --> 2:25:12.200 save links habitat over the long term, it feels like 2:25:12.280 --> 2:25:14.120 you're in a rock and a hard place. But if 2:25:14.120 --> 2:25:16.280 we can find that sweet spot where we've got enough 2:25:16.280 --> 2:25:19.720 habitat for links now and we've got enough firebreak and 2:25:20.600 --> 2:25:23.320 resiliency out there to save it long term, Well, then 2:25:23.360 --> 2:25:25.000 that's going to be progress for Links. 2:25:25.560 --> 2:25:26.800 Yeah. 2:25:27.560 --> 2:25:30.600 Uh. Back to how people can find out information and 2:25:30.680 --> 2:25:33.440 be supportive. We got the traffic cat thing. 2:25:33.400 --> 2:25:36.120 Well hell yeah yeah. Well so if you want to 2:25:36.160 --> 2:25:38.440 find out more just about home range in general, and 2:25:38.560 --> 2:25:40.840 like I said, we've got we've got this research, but 2:25:40.920 --> 2:25:46.279 we also want to help address the issue in wildlife 2:25:46.600 --> 2:25:51.160 research where young, you know, new biologists are sort of 2:25:52.200 --> 2:25:54.039 a lot of the culture of this field is that 2:25:54.080 --> 2:25:56.520 you just sort of get thrown out there and you're 2:25:56.560 --> 2:25:59.000 having to learn on the job, and that does a 2:25:59.000 --> 2:26:02.320 couple of things. It's not safe. It's often costing a 2:26:02.360 --> 2:26:06.880 project equipment because you're out there snowmobiling and trying to 2:26:06.959 --> 2:26:08.840 keep up with the rest of the crew and you've 2:26:08.840 --> 2:26:11.640 never done it and you're just more likely to wreck 2:26:11.760 --> 2:26:14.280 things like that. So that's safety and equipment, and it 2:26:14.400 --> 2:26:16.360 means if you're trying to learn just how to do 2:26:16.400 --> 2:26:21.080 the basic skills, then you're you're not maximizing how much 2:26:21.160 --> 2:26:22.440 data you're getting in and it's not going to be 2:26:22.440 --> 2:26:24.920 as quality. So we're trying to offer or we are 2:26:24.959 --> 2:26:29.400 offering field skills courses and so those are offered in 2:26:29.440 --> 2:26:34.080 the summer and they're they're really cool. They're mammals focused 2:26:34.160 --> 2:26:36.160 right now. But for example, you can sign up for 2:26:36.160 --> 2:26:38.119 a course where you're doing everything from how to set 2:26:38.160 --> 2:26:43.520 cameras to mammal or any animal track and sign. That's 2:26:43.560 --> 2:26:47.119 such an important skill, just being able to read animals 2:26:47.160 --> 2:26:52.520 sign and the tracks and knowing your scat things like that. 2:26:53.120 --> 2:26:55.840 Oh it's yeah, I love. 2:26:56.480 --> 2:27:01.120 One of our guys of visual identification of no any 2:27:01.320 --> 2:27:02.000 just animals. 2:27:02.040 --> 2:27:07.520 Animals. We're starting there. Okay, that's doable, and then that 2:27:07.520 --> 2:27:10.920 that session culminates with we get road killed deer and 2:27:10.959 --> 2:27:14.720 we mock up mortality sites from different predators. Because a 2:27:14.720 --> 2:27:16.800 lot of mammals, there's a lot of work in research 2:27:16.840 --> 2:27:20.280 that involves being able to go to a mortality site 2:27:20.360 --> 2:27:22.640 or kill site and know what happened, who killed it, 2:27:22.680 --> 2:27:23.480 all that sort of stuff. 2:27:23.480 --> 2:27:25.840 Do you guys do snowmobile recovery and stuff like that too. 2:27:26.120 --> 2:27:29.879 We've done a winter skills course that had snowmobiling, trailering, 2:27:30.080 --> 2:27:33.120 avalanche awareness, that sort of thing really, and then we're 2:27:33.120 --> 2:27:38.320 doing a a trapping course coupled with a chemical immobilization, 2:27:38.440 --> 2:27:40.199 so all that drug stuff that we were talking about. 2:27:40.240 --> 2:27:42.760 Yeah, yeah, small classes, I'm going. 2:27:42.840 --> 2:27:46.640 Yeah, yeah about you know, ten to twenty people. So 2:27:46.680 --> 2:27:49.280 those those are a way that people can learn those 2:27:49.320 --> 2:27:50.640 skills before they're on the job. 2:27:50.680 --> 2:27:53.080 And have you had agencies send out students ever. 2:27:53.160 --> 2:27:55.480 Yeah really yeah, yeah, we've had everything from you. 2:27:55.520 --> 2:27:57.080 Guys, probably got a lot to teach. When it comes 2:27:57.120 --> 2:28:03.240 to the wintertime, like time trapping, winter time, snowmobiling, when 2:28:03.400 --> 2:28:06.360 time survival. Yeah, it's just it's like an arena of 2:28:06.440 --> 2:28:07.640 consequence in the mountains. 2:28:07.720 --> 2:28:09.360 Yeah, it really is. Yeah. 2:28:09.440 --> 2:28:10.600 Yeah, stuff can go bad. 2:28:10.720 --> 2:28:15.840 Oh yeah quick, yep, real quick. So anyway, so there's 2:28:15.840 --> 2:28:17.960 that sort of education part, and then we've also got 2:28:18.200 --> 2:28:23.480 our community science angle, which is sort of built around 2:28:23.680 --> 2:28:27.320 the knowledge that we can do all this research, but 2:28:27.400 --> 2:28:30.040 if we're not communicating it to the public, especially the 2:28:30.080 --> 2:28:32.400 communities that are going to be impacted by any possible 2:28:32.480 --> 2:28:37.080 management outcomes, If people don't understand and support it, then 2:28:37.959 --> 2:28:41.560 that's going to really decrease what you can do out 2:28:41.560 --> 2:28:43.600 there as far as management and conservation. So we want 2:28:43.600 --> 2:28:46.560 people to understand what we're doing and to sort of 2:28:46.560 --> 2:28:49.320 help facilitate that. We've got like a bear co existence 2:28:49.360 --> 2:28:52.160 program and some research going on that community scientists are 2:28:52.200 --> 2:28:54.640 helping with. So we've got kind of those three different prongs. 2:28:55.360 --> 2:28:56.800 All that is to say, if you want to learn 2:28:56.840 --> 2:28:59.879 more about that, you can go to home range dot org. 2:29:00.360 --> 2:29:03.000 All right, and we have an Instagram which is home 2:29:03.080 --> 2:29:07.920 range Wildlife Dot or is there a dot? I don't 2:29:07.920 --> 2:29:08.720 know home. 2:29:08.680 --> 2:29:10.879 Range Wildlife you'll find it. Yeah, and then are you 2:29:11.640 --> 2:29:15.840 to explain for the last thing, explain traffic Cat And yeah, So. 2:29:15.760 --> 2:29:19.640 I eluded it because I'm it was. It saved our 2:29:19.680 --> 2:29:22.960 asses last year, and I am so grateful that this 2:29:23.160 --> 2:29:27.680 community gets it. So we've got a fundraiser and we're 2:29:27.720 --> 2:29:30.080 doing it again. A because it's super fun and b 2:29:30.360 --> 2:29:35.720 because we find ourselves again with some desperate needs. People 2:29:35.760 --> 2:29:39.000 who hunt and fish know how important equipment is and 2:29:39.040 --> 2:29:42.280 how fast it can break down when you're using it hard, 2:29:42.640 --> 2:29:45.520 and we use our equipment really hard. Just as an example, we, 2:29:46.080 --> 2:29:48.920 because of traffic Cat, bought two new snowmobiles last year. 2:29:49.120 --> 2:29:52.520 That meant we weren't riding twenty year old held together 2:29:52.560 --> 2:29:56.280 with baling twine and duct tape snowmobiles and we were 2:29:56.360 --> 2:29:59.200 using two new snowmobiles. And that just that is that 2:29:59.280 --> 2:30:01.320 is everything being able to get out there in the winter. 2:30:02.520 --> 2:30:04.360 We had those for one month and they each have 2:30:05.480 --> 2:30:09.199 two thousand miles on them, so they're getting a lot 2:30:09.240 --> 2:30:13.960 of use. So we're thinking ahead about just our fleet 2:30:14.040 --> 2:30:17.039 management and that this year a loan, those sleds are 2:30:17.080 --> 2:30:21.120 going to get another six thousand miles on them. But 2:30:21.240 --> 2:30:25.240 we've also expanded our crew and so some of our 2:30:25.240 --> 2:30:28.200 crew is back to using the old sleds and I'm 2:30:28.240 --> 2:30:32.000 just sort of crossing my fingers every day that nothing 2:30:32.040 --> 2:30:35.879 happens there, and so we desperately need a new sled 2:30:36.000 --> 2:30:39.040 so that it's the backtracking crew that we've got a 2:30:39.040 --> 2:30:41.360 separate crew that's in charge of the tracking so that 2:30:41.400 --> 2:30:46.840 they're not fifty miles out and having a snowmobile issue. 2:30:47.000 --> 2:30:50.840 Not only would that be a bad day, but then 2:30:50.879 --> 2:30:53.959 that part of the study just kind of shuts down. 2:30:54.600 --> 2:30:57.879 That's how important these are. We also find ourselves happily 2:30:58.200 --> 2:31:01.240 in need of more callers. You're going into this, we 2:31:01.320 --> 2:31:06.560 thought maybe we'll catch one links this season, maybe we'll 2:31:06.560 --> 2:31:10.080 catch two. Well, now we've deployed all four of those callers, 2:31:10.520 --> 2:31:13.680 and we know that there are more links that we 2:31:13.720 --> 2:31:16.520 had hoped living in our study area, and so we 2:31:16.640 --> 2:31:20.480 need more callers because more callers more information. It just 2:31:20.560 --> 2:31:23.320 makes the study that much more confident in what we 2:31:23.320 --> 2:31:25.640 can say. We just we every one of these callers 2:31:25.640 --> 2:31:28.720 we learned so freaking much from so we need to 2:31:28.760 --> 2:31:32.640 get more callers. Our trailer is a sad story. That 2:31:32.680 --> 2:31:34.600 thing's falling apart. I mean, it's just it's just this 2:31:34.760 --> 2:31:37.520 basic equipment that allows us to do what we can 2:31:37.560 --> 2:31:40.680 do and gets us the information that we need that 2:31:40.720 --> 2:31:44.600 we find ourselves needing to fundraise again. And so we're 2:31:44.879 --> 2:31:51.720 we're redoing Traffic cat. The game here is that over 2:31:51.760 --> 2:31:54.760 the next three months of our trapping season, so we'll 2:31:54.840 --> 2:31:59.200 be trapping starting well today, they're out there checking our 2:31:59.240 --> 2:32:07.160 first bait. Through March, we'll be trapping where if you, 2:32:07.400 --> 2:32:10.760 let's see, for every one hundred dollars that you donate 2:32:10.800 --> 2:32:14.160 to Trafficict, you get a trap set in your name, 2:32:14.400 --> 2:32:16.760 and we'll keep track of all that you get that 2:32:16.840 --> 2:32:20.119 trap set, and then throughout our season you'll be getting 2:32:20.360 --> 2:32:24.680 like behind the scenes content and so every week we'll 2:32:24.720 --> 2:32:26.680 be sending out videos and stuff of just what it's 2:32:26.720 --> 2:32:31.080 like on the trap line, any cool camera footage that 2:32:31.080 --> 2:32:34.160 we get, stuff like that and that's super fun. Then 2:32:34.440 --> 2:32:41.680 if your set catches the links, you win fame and glory. 2:32:42.200 --> 2:32:46.840 We're gonna have two hundred and fifty dollars first Light 2:32:47.120 --> 2:32:52.920 Gift Certificate and Steven Manila will announce winners on his 2:32:53.000 --> 2:32:55.320 social media will announce it. That's where you'll get your 2:32:55.360 --> 2:32:58.120 fame and so it's it's pretty cool. 2:32:58.200 --> 2:33:01.600 Oh and I'll send you a video. It'd be like, 2:33:01.600 --> 2:33:03.879 what's that service that they have where you send videos? 2:33:03.879 --> 2:33:04.320 You buy them? 2:33:04.360 --> 2:33:04.760 Cameo? 2:33:04.920 --> 2:33:07.200 Cameo. Yeah, you know, dude, the guy what's the name 2:33:07.200 --> 2:33:10.720 for New York Congress Santos? Santos got voted out and 2:33:10.720 --> 2:33:14.360 the next day it turns up on Cameo. It's a 2:33:14.360 --> 2:33:16.760 good it's a good grift if you can get it. 2:33:16.840 --> 2:33:18.760 I'm not on Cameo, but I'll send them a video. 2:33:18.760 --> 2:33:20.440 I'll be like, hey, thanks someone that. 2:33:20.600 --> 2:33:24.640 Okay, there you go, folks. How cool is that? 2:33:24.879 --> 2:33:26.680 Soethill record perfect. 2:33:27.400 --> 2:33:30.520 The other cool thing we've got this year, we've got 2:33:30.680 --> 2:33:34.199 little in pats that we can make a pop print 2:33:34.240 --> 2:33:35.400 from the from the. 2:33:35.560 --> 2:33:36.920 Oh really yeah you can? 2:33:37.360 --> 2:33:41.039 Yeah that's great, man, which is mostly just gonna look 2:33:41.080 --> 2:33:42.560 like a fuzzy mitten. 2:33:42.760 --> 2:33:45.440 But Spencer can get that tattooed on him, then there 2:33:45.480 --> 2:33:49.080 we go. He's like looking for something to get tattooed. 2:33:49.120 --> 2:33:52.480 Yeah, I get a links pop friend. Yeah. So winning's fun. 2:33:52.560 --> 2:33:54.760 It makes a really cool gift. We had a lot 2:33:54.800 --> 2:33:57.600 of people getting it for their kids and it just 2:33:57.959 --> 2:34:05.879 it It means so much for our project, and it's yeah, 2:34:06.080 --> 2:34:10.680 we we rely heavily on this fundraiser and so yeah, 2:34:10.720 --> 2:34:12.320 we just appreciate everybody. 2:34:12.360 --> 2:34:13.960 So people don't want to get involved in Trappic Cat, 2:34:14.040 --> 2:34:15.440 go where same home range. 2:34:15.720 --> 2:34:17.680 Go to home range dot org and there's a banner 2:34:17.760 --> 2:34:19.959 up on the top of the website. You just click 2:34:20.040 --> 2:34:22.640 that and it'll give you a little more information and 2:34:22.680 --> 2:34:24.959 you can donate there and you'll get put into the 2:34:25.040 --> 2:34:29.119 trap cat system and start getting videos and stuff like that. 2:34:29.560 --> 2:34:30.039 Excellent. 2:34:30.200 --> 2:34:31.320 Yeah, it's pretty fun. 2:34:31.920 --> 2:34:35.879 This is the fifth time you've been on Yeah, okay, Yeah, 2:34:36.760 --> 2:34:41.240 better have some adventures for the sixth time. Yeah, okay, 2:34:41.360 --> 2:34:43.920 when you come back next year, Yeah, let's do it. 2:34:44.879 --> 2:34:47.640 And then we'll start talking about my little problem south here, 2:34:48.400 --> 2:34:50.080 which might not be a problem. If you go and 2:34:50.120 --> 2:34:52.359 find that there's all that, you know, it's all habitat, 2:34:52.360 --> 2:34:54.320 I'll be like, cool, I understand. I'm all for it, 2:34:54.360 --> 2:34:55.480 But if it winds up being that it was a 2:34:55.480 --> 2:34:59.560 little willy nilly, a little reflexive, then that then then 2:35:00.120 --> 2:35:03.480 that's an annoyance to me. And in the meantime we'll 2:35:03.480 --> 2:35:04.199 work on that letter. 2:35:05.920 --> 2:35:08.000 Maybe I think willy nilly is probably not it. 2:35:08.080 --> 2:35:12.440 Maybe over ambitious over or or just. 2:35:12.440 --> 2:35:17.840 Overlate, more cautious than you would do. Not sure, not 2:35:17.840 --> 2:35:20.760 willing nilly, though, I don't think they're willing nilly. 2:35:20.920 --> 2:35:24.520 Okay, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Sentiment, Yeah you are, 2:35:25.280 --> 2:35:30.080 uh you love them links? 2:35:31.400 --> 2:35:33.039 Yeah, I mean I do. 2:35:33.440 --> 2:35:33.800 I do. 2:35:34.120 --> 2:35:42.039 I just sometimes for you know, for women in wildlife, 2:35:42.760 --> 2:35:46.879 the stereotype is, oh they love wolves, they're obsessed with wolves, 2:35:47.000 --> 2:35:47.400 or they. 2:35:47.320 --> 2:35:49.800 Love links, and you know, is that a stereotype. 2:35:50.160 --> 2:35:50.959 Yeah, I think so. 2:35:52.280 --> 2:35:54.000 Like that you're not able to look at it like 2:35:54.040 --> 2:35:55.800 a cold meanness. 2:35:57.200 --> 2:35:59.480 I guess a little bit. Not not that anybody wants 2:35:59.480 --> 2:36:02.039 to be looking them with a cold meanness, but I 2:36:02.080 --> 2:36:07.160 think for women sometimes that is seen as the inspiration 2:36:07.280 --> 2:36:12.000 behind Yeah, I've had it. I've sort of experienced that 2:36:12.280 --> 2:36:16.120 myself or somebody they hear, oh you're working with wolves, 2:36:16.280 --> 2:36:19.400 Oh you love like you know they're picturing you as 2:36:19.400 --> 2:36:21.720 a little girl drawing wolves on your binder at school 2:36:21.760 --> 2:36:26.360 and stuff. I would say that links are cool animal. 2:36:27.320 --> 2:36:30.039 It's also they're a hard animal to study, and that's 2:36:30.080 --> 2:36:33.200 intriguing to me. I love the mountains, that's where I 2:36:33.240 --> 2:36:36.959 have to be. I love the boreal force ecosystem, and 2:36:37.040 --> 2:36:46.480 I'm fascinated by the problem of how we can conserve 2:36:46.560 --> 2:36:50.840 them in the face of increasing megafires. And i love 2:36:51.040 --> 2:36:54.560 wildfire wildlife ecology. So it's not as Yeah, I just 2:36:54.600 --> 2:36:57.080 like to be clear that it's not just that I 2:36:57.120 --> 2:36:58.119 love links or something. 2:36:58.800 --> 2:37:01.439 Thank you for coming in, Thanks for having me home Range. 2:37:01.200 --> 2:37:02.080 I really appreciate it. 2:37:02.120 --> 2:37:07.240 Wildlife Traffic Cat program, get into it. We're gonna do 2:37:07.240 --> 2:37:10.800 big announcements about who wins the traffic Cat Okay. 2:37:10.760 --> 2:37:11.840 Will you still do a video? 2:37:11.840 --> 2:37:15.760 If it's my kids, Oh yeah, I'll t to tell them. 2:37:17.280 --> 2:37:20.040 Let's tell him. At first, they'll be like, what really 2:37:21.200 --> 2:37:25.400 is you only got to send me a video? Brooklyn 2:37:25.440 --> 2:37:27.040 Nicks coming down? You're still gonna make it back to 2:37:27.040 --> 2:37:28.760 school or did you get some bag it for the day? 2:37:28.800 --> 2:37:30.119 Now I can make it back. 2:37:30.200 --> 2:37:31.920 Yeah, well, class, you gotta get. 2:37:32.200 --> 2:37:37.120 Early grad English early what early grad English. It's like 2:37:37.560 --> 2:37:39.680 my other English classes. I'm graduating early. 2:37:40.080 --> 2:37:41.040 Why are graduating early? 2:37:41.800 --> 2:37:42.560 Is it all like school? 2:37:42.840 --> 2:37:45.560 Oh? They're letting you the cutting you loose early? How early? 2:37:46.200 --> 2:37:48.760 I get out in five days for good? 2:37:49.760 --> 2:37:54.000 Really? Whoa, that's graduations fantastic. Oh that's cool. 2:37:54.280 --> 2:37:56.720 Then you go right into taxi army full time. 2:37:57.200 --> 2:38:01.880 So you need these schools kind of Yeah, you should 2:38:01.879 --> 2:38:04.280 have put that into your pitch. Oh, okay, that's cool. 2:38:04.720 --> 2:38:10.080 So you're gonna enter the workforce? Yep, congratulations, good all right, 2:38:10.120 --> 2:38:14.280 Well thanks for coming down. Four six bone works. Yep, 2:38:14.680 --> 2:38:18.600 all right, thanks, good luck. Keep us posted on what's 2:38:18.600 --> 2:38:21.160 going on. I got another skull hanging in a cherry 2:38:21.160 --> 2:38:24.039 tree in my yard. You'll see it by the front 2:38:24.040 --> 2:38:27.880 door if you get by there and needs a good cleaning. 2:38:28.160 --> 2:38:33.000 I skinned it. Unfortunately it's okoduse. 2:38:31.720 --> 2:38:34.800 I'm not gonna here's a question before we leave, will 2:38:34.800 --> 2:38:39.039 we do any skull like coyotes? Beaver's yeah, Pine Martins, 2:38:39.320 --> 2:38:40.920 lynx links. 2:38:41.240 --> 2:38:43.600 I'm a joking. I want When Karma was on before 2:38:43.640 --> 2:38:45.280 I was talking at how bad I wanted a Lynk skull, 2:38:45.320 --> 2:38:47.119 and someone from Canada sent me a link. Skoo. I'm 2:38:47.120 --> 2:38:49.760 trying to give it to Carmena for her collection. 2:38:50.280 --> 2:38:50.560 Cool. 2:38:51.800 --> 2:38:55.640 Cool, I don't want to. Uh, it would take a 2:38:55.760 --> 2:38:59.640 very trained, astute observer to tell that from a Bobcats. Yeah, 2:39:00.040 --> 2:39:03.000 like you could just say it's whatever. Yeah. I sent 2:39:03.120 --> 2:39:05.000 my buddy has he's a science teacher in Michigan. I 2:39:05.040 --> 2:39:08.720 send him a huge box of schools and he had 2:39:08.720 --> 2:39:11.680 his kids do the what do you call it? You know, 2:39:11.720 --> 2:39:14.640 like the there's a the idea. Yeah, but there's like 2:39:14.680 --> 2:39:18.320 a thing you what's the term, man, you key it 2:39:18.440 --> 2:39:18.720 or something? 2:39:18.760 --> 2:39:18.880 Oh? 2:39:18.959 --> 2:39:21.320 Yeah, like using a key to to figure out which 2:39:21.320 --> 2:39:22.000 school is which. 2:39:22.200 --> 2:39:24.280 Yeah, And then we did where the ones that got 2:39:24.280 --> 2:39:26.960 it right got a prize. They were fun. Oh, they 2:39:26.959 --> 2:39:29.000 were phenomenal. He had like twenty some students and like 2:39:29.040 --> 2:39:31.240 I don't know everyone it was toms of them got it right, 2:39:31.640 --> 2:39:33.640 like a whole box of schools by using the key. 2:39:34.520 --> 2:39:35.760 Like I would just look at like, I don't know, 2:39:36.280 --> 2:39:37.000 it looks like a. 2:39:37.120 --> 2:39:39.000 Well if it's a good key. 2:39:39.080 --> 2:39:39.280 Yeah. 2:39:39.320 --> 2:39:39.440 No. 2:39:39.680 --> 2:39:41.960 I was impressed. Man, I'm gonna so I'm going to 2:39:42.040 --> 2:39:44.560 keep supplying little schools or to his students so they 2:39:44.600 --> 2:39:47.039 can check them out, all right, So you'll do any 2:39:47.080 --> 2:39:50.920 kind of school ye, all right, Okay, thank you very 2:39:51.000 --> 2:39:51.800 much for coming down. 2:39:52.120 --> 2:39:52.480 Thank you. 2:39:52.560 --> 2:39:54.320 Good luck with your business. I'm going to keep sending 2:39:54.360 --> 2:39:59.640 your business. I'm not using Brody services anymore. Nothing not 2:39:59.720 --> 2:40:01.520 hacking Brody. I just want to support. I want to 2:40:01.520 --> 2:40:02.680 support the business over here. 2:40:02.760 --> 2:40:06.200 I might start sending to her. I think you should 2:40:06.240 --> 2:40:07.760 raise your prices just a little bit. 2:40:07.840 --> 2:40:09.720 Also, yeah, it sounds like it, but I don't know. 2:40:09.920 --> 2:40:12.920 I like that. I like that price right there. Now, 2:40:13.120 --> 2:40:14.920 how do you how do you envoys? Are you going 2:40:15.000 --> 2:40:17.480 to send? Uh? You know you could do? That's really convenient. 2:40:18.360 --> 2:40:21.360 I had someone I bought something near day from someone 2:40:21.360 --> 2:40:24.800 that sends you a a like a little scan code, 2:40:25.320 --> 2:40:27.320 and then that scan code pulls up Venmo. Have you 2:40:27.360 --> 2:40:28.199 tried something like that? 2:40:28.600 --> 2:40:31.320 No, if I use Venmo, you need. 2:40:31.240 --> 2:40:32.720 To get this whatever the hell he's got. I don't 2:40:32.720 --> 2:40:34.879 know what it is. It made it so easy. 2:40:34.959 --> 2:40:37.040 I think she's waiting for her business manager. 2:40:37.680 --> 2:40:40.400 Yeah, yeah, it was just like, man, I don't have vembo. 2:40:40.400 --> 2:40:42.480 By grabbed my wife's phone and open that code up 2:40:42.520 --> 2:40:43.920 and was able to just hit a couple of things 2:40:43.920 --> 2:40:48.240 and payment over. Super easy, super convenient. I don't know 2:40:48.280 --> 2:40:49.879 what it is, but trust me, just the thing out 2:40:49.879 --> 2:40:51.480 there that makes payment a breeze. 2:40:51.959 --> 2:40:53.199 Okay, it's probably Venmo. 2:40:53.800 --> 2:40:55.200 No, it is out yeah it is. But I don't 2:40:55.200 --> 2:40:57.360 know how they did this thing. It was great because 2:40:57.680 --> 2:41:00.960 I don't have them much of my wife's annoyance I 2:41:01.040 --> 2:41:04.560 had not. All right, thanks, everybody, talk you soon. 2:41:13.800 --> 2:41:17.000 It's a story of a man the steward of the 2:41:17.120 --> 2:41:21.160 land fixed on griev So I'll try to be brief. 2:41:21.200 --> 2:41:25.680 He's written Forefield and streaming all the other magazines. Kids 2:41:25.760 --> 2:41:30.920 more about truth than common believe about already know this 2:41:31.040 --> 2:41:36.080 buddy Astricken noses from beating the meat of a uncooked 2:41:36.120 --> 2:41:39.840 bear about already know. Then you can find him and 2:41:40.000 --> 2:41:48.920 Bozeman or hunting some mountains somewhere here. That's Seemingnella. He's 2:41:49.000 --> 2:41:52.840 a fine fella. It's dreading middle of like a shaggy 2:41:52.959 --> 2:41:57.520 Manson mellow. He's not very in the sing. Aka fella. 2:41:58.320 --> 2:42:01.279 I've been reads like no time, No fella. 2:42:01.760 --> 2:42:02.480 He's got some. 2:42:02.640 --> 2:42:06.640 Good folks under them media the umbrella. He's a fine 2:42:06.760 --> 2:42:21.160 fella that he's written half a dozen bucks. He's a 2:42:21.200 --> 2:42:25.640 pretty good cook, married to a fence that won't seem 2:42:25.680 --> 2:42:31.320 to mope. Loves his home, steak tails, from Twins Lake, Michigan, 2:42:31.680 --> 2:42:35.440 where they picked up those quoats in Alaska on a 2:42:35.520 --> 2:42:38.680 skiff for with Doug and the Drifts with his main 2:42:38.800 --> 2:42:43.480 man Gianni's food tellers on the mountain, trying to score 2:42:43.640 --> 2:42:47.400 in a double Remy Warren or Old Chalcey and Lady 2:42:47.520 --> 2:42:56.000 Bears Smellings. That's Steven mmella. He's a fine fellaw's dreading 2:42:56.240 --> 2:43:00.039 the love like a shaggy Maine's a fella. He's not 2:43:00.040 --> 2:43:03.920 not afraid to sing at a fella. His lie it 2:43:04.240 --> 2:43:07.560 reads like can no time, no fella. He's got some 2:43:07.760 --> 2:43:12.280 good folks into the media umbrella. He's a fine fellow 2:43:12.400 --> 2:43:26.920 that manella, Dude, I want to talk dip, get him 2:43:27.040 --> 2:43:30.600 stop fast. Hell, that's half the content of the media 2:43:30.800 --> 2:43:34.560 to podcast classing from a knop trying to clear out 2:43:34.680 --> 2:43:38.120 his head going from the meet you. He could have 2:43:38.280 --> 2:43:44.600 been dead, but that's the story for another day. 2:43:45.440 --> 2:43:46.760 That's Deephen Mellow. 2:43:47.360 --> 2:43:51.080 He's a fine fellows spreading a little love like us 2:43:51.120 --> 2:43:55.280 shagging fans the mellow. He's not afraid to sing. 2:43:55.400 --> 2:43:56.200 Got the fella. 2:43:56.720 --> 2:43:59.959 His lif fit reads like I can no time, no fella. 2:44:00.520 --> 2:44:05.840 He's got some good books under them umbrella he's Vambela, 2:44:06.040 --> 2:44:14.680 that HeLa. He's Fambelddela Doo doo doo 2:44:16.680 --> 2:44:16.720 Do