WEBVTT - S4E24: Rory Scovel and Arbitrage on Wall Street

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<v Speaker 1>It's very seldom I run into someone who I really

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<v Speaker 1>think is just kind of a piece of shit. I

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<v Speaker 1>go for the most part, everybody's just at their job,

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<v Speaker 1>whether they're wildly famous or not, and they're just trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do the job and then go home and hang

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<v Speaker 1>out with their family. It's just kind of our universal situation.

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<v Speaker 2>Well you know what that means, Rory, that you're the

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<v Speaker 2>piece of.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to SNAPO, your favorite podcast about history's

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<v Speaker 2>greatest screw ups, or, if we're being completely honest, a

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<v Speaker 2>show about the spectacular hubris of humanity, the epic disasters

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<v Speaker 2>it creates, and the lessons we like to pretend we

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<v Speaker 2>can learn from them. I'm your host ed Helms, and

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<v Speaker 2>I guess today. Is a very funny comedian, actor, writer,

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<v Speaker 2>and podcast host. He released his first comedy album, Dilation,

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty eleven, and pumped out not one, not three,

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<v Speaker 2>but six different stand up specials, the most recent of

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<v Speaker 2>which Religion, Sex, and a Few Things in Between, you

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<v Speaker 2>can find on HBO Max. He's appeared in a variety

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<v Speaker 2>of film and television programs, with a particularly standout performance

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<v Speaker 2>opposite Rose Byrne in Apple TV's Physical, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>fucking awesome show by the way, Nic Yes, indeed, and

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<v Speaker 2>he said to appear in a new ABC show called

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<v Speaker 2>Do You Want Kids? And I think I also just

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<v Speaker 2>saw a trailer that had you in it for my

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<v Speaker 2>buddy Steve Carell's new show Rooster. So please welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the pod the amazing Rory Scovel.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I I've got to say, Ed, I have waited to

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<v Speaker 1>see you face to face because this was the only

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<v Speaker 1>way to tell you this. But Vacation is potentially one

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<v Speaker 1>of the funniest movies that I have seen in I

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<v Speaker 1>do not I don't know how long, but I have

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<v Speaker 1>not seen a comedy where literally every five minutes I

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<v Speaker 1>sort of need to pause the movie to collect myself.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have shown so many people that movie and

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<v Speaker 1>I tell them, you will cry laughing, And it's so true.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that movie so much.

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<v Speaker 2>You were this You're gonna make me cry right now.

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<v Speaker 2>You're really touching me. And I'll tell you why, because

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<v Speaker 2>I and the writer directors of that movie have long

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<v Speaker 2>felt that that movie like, we are so proud of it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a movie we loved making, we love the product

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<v Speaker 2>and it just didn't capture the audience that we that

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<v Speaker 2>we hoped for. And so when I get these little

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<v Speaker 2>nuggets of affirmation like that, I really appreciate it. That

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<v Speaker 2>really means a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>You guys should absolutely be proud of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But just given the fact that it's not comedically predictable,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not hacky, it's not like the cringey comedy that

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<v Speaker 1>you can find out there, which is fine, the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that it actually is just so moments of that car

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<v Speaker 1>is so stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>The car is so funny. There's a keyfob with a

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<v Speaker 2>million buttons on it, and Christina Applegate goes, is that

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<v Speaker 2>a swastika? And I just say, yeah, we won't use that.

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<v Speaker 2>What is that? What? Uh?

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<v Speaker 3>It's great?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well enough about Hey, we're here to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about you. First of all, I've actually known you a

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<v Speaker 2>long time, not well, we've bumped into each other over

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<v Speaker 2>the years. But I have a very borderline offensive question

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<v Speaker 2>for you, which is do you say your last name

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<v Speaker 2>Scovell or Scovell.

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<v Speaker 1>I say Scovell, which, okay, I'm going to go and

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<v Speaker 1>say it's correct, but that's my versions of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Scovelley Skivel good because I am Southern, so I

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<v Speaker 2>have all these little like contractions I say. I say

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<v Speaker 2>things like like like my friend Eleanor, I say Eleanor

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<v Speaker 2>and Scoville and that sort of thing. So uh, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm always conscious that I'm probably doing it wrong as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Where are you from? Originally the South?

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<v Speaker 3>From South Carolina, Greenville? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Right on.

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<v Speaker 3>Eleanor is exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, even though it's spelled with an o's pronounced with

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<v Speaker 2>an I or even an apostrophe an apostrophe are eleanor Eleanor?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that art comes in quick.

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<v Speaker 2>You're rapidly becoming an American treasure. And I.

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<v Speaker 3>Love the best podcast I've ever been and we should

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<v Speaker 3>just do this.

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<v Speaker 2>This is called we just just compliment each other with

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<v Speaker 2>voice are you? That's what this is called. No, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's fun when I have people on that I think

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<v Speaker 2>are awesome like you, so thank you. You have a

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<v Speaker 2>new podcast. Also, you're getting into this space starting to

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<v Speaker 2>horn in on my space. That's right a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it? Tell me more?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a show called Crime List. I do it with

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<v Speaker 1>the journalist Josh Dean and yeah, he basically not so

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<v Speaker 1>unlike this show just in the world of like crime

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<v Speaker 1>stories and stupid criminals throughout history and throughout the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Josh kind of reads me a story about can you

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<v Speaker 1>believe this bone head? You know, criminal story? And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just hearing it for the first time and commenting on it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I love it. I'm shocked every time that I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not shocked, and I am shocked that ninety five

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<v Speaker 1>percent of the stories are from Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's just the reality of it.

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<v Speaker 1>But Yeah, it's out now and it's been super fun

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<v Speaker 1>to do, and Josh is a great co host cool.

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<v Speaker 2>I am psyched to check that out. And it's also

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<v Speaker 2>perfect segue into what we're about to do. I'm about

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to you about this snafu, and in this

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<v Speaker 2>particular case, it is also a crime perfect Have you

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<v Speaker 2>seen the movie Wall Street. I've seen the movie Wall Street, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>with Michael Douglas and Charlie Sheene, Darryl Hannah Oliver Stone movie.

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<v Speaker 2>It's phenomenal. So the guy that Michael Douglas plays in

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<v Speaker 2>that movie, who's like a corporate raider and like a

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<v Speaker 2>Wall Street tycoon. He's based loosely, but he is based

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<v Speaker 2>on a real guy. Does this ring any bells for.

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<v Speaker 3>You, No, I don't think. I don't think I was

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<v Speaker 3>aware of this.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Okay, So this is a Wall Street legend of sorts.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just one of those really epic stories about a

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<v Speaker 2>man who rows from rags to riches and then plummeted

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<v Speaker 2>from riches to an orange jumpsuit. Our man of the

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<v Speaker 2>hour is Ivan Bowski, and he was considered widely thought

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<v Speaker 2>to be the inspiration for Michael Douglas's very slippery eighties

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<v Speaker 2>villain Gordon Gecko. We have a we have a photo

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<v Speaker 2>of mister Boski here.

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<v Speaker 3>It just seems like.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that I've seen other pictures of him where

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<v Speaker 2>his eyes look normal. So I'm just gonna guess that's

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<v Speaker 2>a weird He's either he's either winking or or it's

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<v Speaker 2>just one of those weird, weird moments that the cameras get.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a slickness to this guy. And look at

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<v Speaker 2>his skin. Hey, he's got game show host vibes.

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<v Speaker 3>He does.

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<v Speaker 2>He kind of looks like he'd be fun to hang

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<v Speaker 2>out have a beer with, I'll be honest.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're gonna learn why he might not be somebody

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<v Speaker 2>that you wanted to hang out with. Also, funny funny footnote.

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<v Speaker 2>He's wearing a black suit and a white shirt in

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<v Speaker 2>this picture, and that that was his go to every

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<v Speaker 2>single day. He and someone asked him at one point,

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<v Speaker 2>why do you wear the same suit and every day?

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<v Speaker 2>And he just said, I have enough big decisions to

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<v Speaker 2>make every day. This is one I can just take

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<v Speaker 2>off the list, which is funny because Einstein is also

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<v Speaker 2>famous for that. Albert Einstein always wore the same suit

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<v Speaker 2>and shirt and for the same reason. It's just like

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<v Speaker 2>take it off your plate, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes sense, it makes it. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>you do that. I don't do it for those reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>When I heard the same clothes, it's clearly like a

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<v Speaker 1>lazy sort.

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<v Speaker 2>Of When I hear the same clothes every day, it's problematic.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a bit of a red flag. It happens that

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<v Speaker 2>you explain right. Here is Michael Douglas's famous piece of

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<v Speaker 2>dialogue from Wall Street. He's giving a big speech to

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<v Speaker 2>stockholders meeting for a big company, and he's walking the

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<v Speaker 2>aisle with a microphone, and he's tons of gravitas and

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<v Speaker 2>he's just saying, greed, for lack of a better word,

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<v Speaker 2>is good. Greed is right greed works read, clarifies, cuts

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<v Speaker 2>through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeaheah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we know now the state of our politics

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<v Speaker 1>that he was right, it's going great, it's going so good.

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<v Speaker 2>He's all right. What he left out is and all

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<v Speaker 2>of that sucks, and that the consequences of all this

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<v Speaker 2>is not good.

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<v Speaker 3>The endgame of this is devastating.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, So today we will find out what that spirit

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<v Speaker 2>conjured throughout the eighties. Of course, your show Physical takes

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<v Speaker 2>place in the eighties. How do you how would you

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<v Speaker 2>capture the spirit of the eighties? How would you describe it?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it's almost a good I feel like that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why there's something to his speech in that movie,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's almost like the eighties was like you can

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<v Speaker 1>get up and you can create your own future, and

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<v Speaker 1>greed and wanting to do it and having to step

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<v Speaker 1>over people to pull it off is a is a

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<v Speaker 1>great way, is a great start. And then the other

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<v Speaker 1>side of it feels like Cindy Lapper and Madonna, which

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I identify with more in my spirit

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<v Speaker 1>of what I like to envision of the eighties.

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<v Speaker 3>But as far as business, yeah, I think it was

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<v Speaker 3>like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Also, I'm just going to say a word that I

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<v Speaker 2>associate with the eighties cocaine.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, lots of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that that's what crossed the aisles. That's where

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<v Speaker 1>the art community and common ground.

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<v Speaker 2>Amen. All right, Well, let's get into Ivanboski a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>He starts out modestly. Born in nineteen thirty seventy, grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in post war Detroit, the son of a Russian

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<v Speaker 2>immigrant who ran delis and old school brass railbars, which

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<v Speaker 2>is those blue collar taverns fueled by rye breads, cigarettes

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<v Speaker 2>and cheap liquor and a little fun Detroit footnote. Bosky

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<v Speaker 2>attended Mumford High School. Does that mean anything to you?

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 2>Mumford High School later achieved pop culture immortality thanks to

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Murphy's gray sweatshirt in Beverly Hills cop Oh yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>he is a Mumford sweatshirt. I love that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so Boski actually went there. From the sounds of it,

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<v Speaker 2>Ivan strove for more. There's a peculiar quote from his

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<v Speaker 2>second cousin, found in a Time magazine article. He had

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<v Speaker 2>this capacity for single mindedness. He drove himself mercilessly as

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<v Speaker 2>far as exercise goes.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the most unrelatable sentence I've ever heard.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it goes on to talk about how he does

0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.760
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of push ups, which is odd, but I guess

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<v Speaker 2>speaks to like a driven sort of character as a

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.680
<v Speaker 2>young man. Have you ever watched someone with incredible focus

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<v Speaker 2>and drive and just thought that's really before realizing that's

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<v Speaker 2>the energy that also is wrecking everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but also they almost seemed you can't picture them

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<v Speaker 1>laughing or saying something originally funny, or you just they

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<v Speaker 1>almost feel like carbon copies of carbon copies of people.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know what you mean. I don't understand that drive.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little bit of lawn musk sarc right. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like he was this incredibly inspiring, kind of

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<v Speaker 2>relentless innovator and then whoa, whoa, it just went so yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so far over the the line.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>At some point, Yeah, the ambition gets taken away or

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<v Speaker 1>just takes off way too far. I also think some kids,

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<v Speaker 1>speaking of the eighties, I think you watched movies. I

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<v Speaker 1>think there's a lot of us that saw something like

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<v Speaker 1>The Karate Kid and wanted to be Daniel LaRusso, and

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.040
<v Speaker 1>then some people were like, no, I want to be Johnny.

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I want to be a blondeheaded dude who's clearly a

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<v Speaker 1>bad guy. And it's you see that in their lives

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<v Speaker 1>that's so interesting.

0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I definitely when I saw those guys jumping

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 2>motorcycles around in their skeleton Halloween costumes, I was like,

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 2>I definitely want to be that. But when Daniel LaRusso

0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>like kicks him in the face with the swan kick,

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, yeah, that's who I want.

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 3>You're like, that's the guy.

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 2>While in school, Boski married Sima Silberstein in nineteen sixty two,

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.520
<v Speaker 2>daughter of real estate lawyer and hotel tycoon Ben Silberstein.

0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.839
<v Speaker 2>We could probably actually do a whole story on Silberstein.

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>He is fascinating in and of and himself. But here's

0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>a quick anecdote. Allegedly, when he was younger, he was

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 2>turned away from the Beverly Hills Hotel. On a subsequent

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 2>visit with his youngest daughter, Muriel, she exclaimed that he

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.520
<v Speaker 2>thought he should simply buy the place, and so he did. Yeah,

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's kind of a fuck you. He just

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 2>bought the hotel. For five point five million dollars in

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty four. Oh my god, that's that's just over

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.199
<v Speaker 2>sixty six million today, and I think it's worth a

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.880
<v Speaker 2>lot more than that. Safe to say, Boski was well

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 2>aware of this class differential he was marrying into and

0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.120
<v Speaker 2>really wanted to prove himself. After graduating from the Detroit

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 2>College of Law, he drifted through a series of soul

0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 2>sucking gigs law clerk, accountant, kind of rinse and repeat.

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 2>None of it's sticking, none of its satisfying. Then his

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>father died in nineteen sixty four, Boski took over the

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>family's last brass Rail bar and rebranded it La Club

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 2>a Go Go, and it brought in topless dancers and

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 2>made it a kind of tawdry, salatious affair, and of

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 2>course it was bankrupt within two years.

0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 3>The brass Rail Bar is so fun.

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Every time I hear that, I think of Rudy when

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.840
<v Speaker 1>his dad threw him and his brother out of the

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>bar when all the guys were off work at the

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 1>mill and they were just drinking at the bar, and

0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 1>then Rudy was sean Aston was doing something and his

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 1>dad told the owner to throw them out. It lives

0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.520
<v Speaker 1>in my mind forever because I thought, why don't you

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 1>just tell your son.

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 3>To leave the bar? Why does the owner have to.

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Now get involved throwing your kid out of the bar.

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 1>But I always picture that five PM blue collar guys

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 1>in their their you know, destroyed clothing from working at

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 1>the mill, just having beers and it just seems so cozy.

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Now introduce like like a like a burlesque dancer to

0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>that vibey. And it was not successful, this one did.

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 2>It went bankrupt in two years. Boski, at the time,

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 2>was not exactly happy. His father in law would constantly

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 2>let him know how unhappy he was with his daughter's choices.

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>He nicknamed Ivan Boski Ivan a bum and openly referred

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 2>to him as an air dwell who would amount to nothing,

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.600
<v Speaker 2>which is kind of kind of a brutal way to

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.040
<v Speaker 2>talk to your son in law.

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 1>I feel like Ivan Brokski was right there for the

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 1>taking anyone with the bum.

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh gosh, yeah, you're going to be a tough

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 2>father in law.

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited just that name. Yeah, for the nicknames, this is.

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>An interesting one. How much of a person's identity or

0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, ambition gets shaped by all the people shouting

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 2>at them that they're a failure.

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 3>Of course, my god, absolutely.

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's like the core of representation in entertainment

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 1>and how you're represented like in entertainment and who you

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 1>are that you you know, when you start to identify

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.720
<v Speaker 1>with people who look like you or you feel like

0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>you relate to, Like, that's what inspires the idea that

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you think, well, I'm just meant to be a failure

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.680
<v Speaker 1>or I can be a success, you know for sure.

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 1>But you're right, like criticism like that it starts to

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 1>become your reality.

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it can either it can either destroy someone or

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.439
<v Speaker 2>like give them like very intense fuel.

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:13.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 2>And uh and I would I would also say that's

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 2>probably not like good fuel, healthy fuel.

0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:21.400
<v Speaker 3>Fuel.

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.399
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, it's like I want to be a success,

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.399
<v Speaker 2>not because I want to like have nice vacations with

0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.760
<v Speaker 2>my family. It's because I want to make this other

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:29.800
<v Speaker 2>person feel like shit.

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because buy a hotel when they refuse service, that

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.119
<v Speaker 1>really puts me in my place. I couldn't do that

0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.920
<v Speaker 1>at a gas station or a go to a fast

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.439
<v Speaker 1>food place and they disrespected me.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.439
<v Speaker 3>I'd be like, you just wait, I'm gonna buy this place.

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna need about twenty years just to kind of

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 1>get the green together, but.

0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Also see well. Needless to say, Boski was extremely motivated,

0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>in part probably to best his father in law. He

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.359
<v Speaker 2>and Seema moved to the Big Apple. Now Rory, that

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.479
<v Speaker 2>is a Wall Street term for New York City.

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.639
<v Speaker 3>Okay, you said we were going to learn today, You

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 3>said that.

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.239
<v Speaker 2>The Big Apple. Make a note of it. Yeah, Now,

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess father in law Silberstein was at least kind

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.640
<v Speaker 2>enough to put them up in a Park Avenue apartment.

0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 2>He even bankrolled Boski's first company with seven hundred thousand dollars.

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.080
<v Speaker 2>This was nineteen seventy five and Ivan had found his

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 2>passion and promise on Wall Street. He was an incredibly

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.920
<v Speaker 2>hard worker, allegedly clocking twenty hour work days. This is

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.320
<v Speaker 2>an interesting thing that sort of emerges in a lot

0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 2>of biographical material about him. He never ate. He would

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 2>go to these big you know, functions and meals or

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.439
<v Speaker 2>like host big things dinner parties and this and that,

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and like no one ever saw him eat. He would

0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.800
<v Speaker 2>have like a grape or like little nibbles of things.

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 2>And he was like as we mentioned before, relentlessly working

0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 2>out just like a very intense guy and also never slept.

0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.480
<v Speaker 2>It's just one of those weird vampire dudes who can

0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.120
<v Speaker 2>like like I have my sleep tracker, and if it's

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 2>like less than eight hours, I'm just like, oh God,

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:13.640
<v Speaker 2>this is going to be a hard day.

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, your day's ruined.

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Sorry. I go into the day already like, oh, I'm

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:19.880
<v Speaker 2>on half a tank guy, And.

0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 1>You're like, if I could just get three pastries in

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>my body, I bet I could find some.

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Fuel in there.

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Ivan Boski was very dedicated to sort of carving out

0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 2>his place on Wall Street. He was not a traditional investor.

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 2>He worked in a space known as arbitrage. So traditional

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 2>investing is like planting a tree. You buy a stock

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.240
<v Speaker 2>and you believe in the company, and you hold it

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 2>for a long time, believing that this company will will grow.

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.479
<v Speaker 2>Stockbrokers will research companies in order to sort of know

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:57.360
<v Speaker 2>which companies have the best chances of growing and accumulating value.

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Arbitrage is a different kind of investor. It's all about timing.

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.879
<v Speaker 2>It's fast and it's fast in and fast out, So

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.919
<v Speaker 2>you buy something that you think is temporarily underpriced and

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 2>then sell it the minute the price corrects. So it

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of works like this, you would find a small

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 2>company something that has like a sort of special or

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 2>obscure value. Maybe it's a product or a service or

0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.679
<v Speaker 2>an expertise of some kind, but it's something that a

0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 2>bigger company would want. Then you figure out that a

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 2>takeover buy this bigger company or any number of bigger

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:41.040
<v Speaker 2>companies is likely before the public catches onto this, and

0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 2>you buy a ton of shares of this small company

0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.400
<v Speaker 2>while the stock price is relatively low. Then when this

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.680
<v Speaker 2>takeover happens and is announced, the stock price jumps and

0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 2>you immediately sell. Yeah, it has nothing, there's no loyalty,

0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 2>there's no belief in the company. You're just trying to

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.200
<v Speaker 2>spot the moment when the price is about to change

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 2>and be there first. It's one of the most risky

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 2>kinds of investing, and at the time, most arbitrage players

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>were very cautious, small bets, careful math, lots of hedging.

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.320
<v Speaker 2>But Bowski was not built this way. He went He

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.760
<v Speaker 2>just went big. He pushed harder, he took huge risks

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 2>that others wouldn't touch. And as the seventies sort of

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.560
<v Speaker 2>turned into the eighties, this all of his bullheaded bluster

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.160
<v Speaker 2>turned him into a force of nature. He was also

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 2>incredibly smart and gifted at you know, market analysis, and

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.439
<v Speaker 2>somehow Ivan Boski just kept crushing it.

0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Every time you say Bosky, I only picture Michael Douglas anyways,

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 1>eating honestly, just eating the raw meat that he gets

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:49.680
<v Speaker 1>at that restaurant in there.

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 2>That movie was so good. I need to rewatch that.

0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean when he stands on the balcony at the

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 1>apartment and Charlie Sheen just yells out to the city,

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>who am I. Yeah, It's like we've all been there.

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Been there? Did you live in New York City? Anyway?

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 3>I lived there.

0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 1>For four years and then what when was that? I

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.360
<v Speaker 1>was there o seven to twenty eleven.

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Right after me, I was there ninety six to two

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 2>thousand's yeah seven.

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Basically I was there when I lived there. I was

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.400
<v Speaker 1>at all those Dell Closed marathons watching you guys that

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:33.679
<v Speaker 1>those that won that venue was incredible. But those are

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 1>some of my happiest memories from comedy, just going and

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 1>watching insane improv at the Dell Close marathon.

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:42.560
<v Speaker 3>Yes, like three in the morning.

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was so it felt so punk rock, right,

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:48.919
<v Speaker 2>and that was like, That's what I loved about it

0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 2>is like there were there were a lot of like, like,

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I've always been pretty nerdy and like clean cut, but

0:22:55.640 --> 0:23:01.160
<v Speaker 2>like I value punk rock, I value the the the

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.639
<v Speaker 2>weirdos and the people on the margins. I just think

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 2>that they're such a marvelous part of our culture and society.

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.480
<v Speaker 2>And then you have an institution like the Upright Citizens

0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Brigade that that just brings it all together somehow, And

0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 2>you have like buttoned up comedians performing next to like

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.840
<v Speaker 2>just the wildest performance art Whack a Do's, and it's

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:26.720
<v Speaker 2>just pure joy.

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:32.280
<v Speaker 3>I like, I agree.

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.280
<v Speaker 2>We're now in the midst of the mid eighties. We're

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:44.879
<v Speaker 2>talking lycra leggings, Tom Selix mustache, and everyone's asking where's

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the beef because of the Wendy's commercial. Yeah, it was Wendy's.

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh I don't know, is that where it came from?

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Where's the beef? Yeah, it's like a little old lady

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 2>opening up her hamburger and it's like a tiny little

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>meat patty. In nineteen eighty one, the Ivan F. Boski Corp.

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Was rolling in it, making more than one hundred and

0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.960
<v Speaker 2>fifty million dollars in profits from short runs on CBS,

0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 2>Gulf Oil and Konaco. According to Vanity Fair, one hundred

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:17.120
<v Speaker 2>and fifty million dollars was more money than Ivan's father

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 2>in law ever had. Perfect So I guess some nice

0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:22.640
<v Speaker 2>warm comfort there.

0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:29.119
<v Speaker 1>That's aolution of the human spirit right there. Yeah, it

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:30.520
<v Speaker 1>just got it above that number.

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:32.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I just got a win. I just got a

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 2>win at whatever cost to my soul. It's fine. So

0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Ivan is raking it in. By the spring of nineteen

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.080
<v Speaker 2>eighty five, he was reportedly the highest paid broker on

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street, with a net worth of over two hundred

0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.719
<v Speaker 2>and eighty million dollars, which is nearly eight hundred and

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.720
<v Speaker 2>forty million in today's dollars, which I just want to

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.840
<v Speaker 2>point out, eight hundred and forty million dollars, like in

0:24:53.920 --> 0:25:00.000
<v Speaker 2>today's money is not considered, you know, the the crazy wealth,

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.119
<v Speaker 2>the crazy way you have to be a billionaire to

0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:07.639
<v Speaker 2>be a crazy wealthy. And that's a comment on like

0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties, as much money and excess as these

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 2>guys are engaging in, we're still not in a culture

0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:19.240
<v Speaker 2>with the wealth gap that we have today. Yeah, right,

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the wealth gap has just like exploded exploded since the eighties.

0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 2>But it's just interesting to me that we're talking about

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.919
<v Speaker 2>these guys as if they're Jeff Bezos or or Elon

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Musk or Zuckerberg, but they're not even close to that

0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 2>by comparison.

0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:39.640
<v Speaker 1>And yet still titans in their own in the daytime. Yeah,

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:41.560
<v Speaker 1>the day they were that. And I think it's that

0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:44.840
<v Speaker 1>trickle down economics of the eighties where people are like, now,

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>give all this money, give it up here, and you'll

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 1>get it back.

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:50.479
<v Speaker 3>It'll come back to you.

0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know what you mean, Like that wealth gap

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.240
<v Speaker 1>is massive now, and I think there's something to the

0:25:57.240 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>eighties of like, yeah, this is what really the lit

0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:01.080
<v Speaker 1>the fire.

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Boski held the spot on the Forbes four hundred list

0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:10.640
<v Speaker 2>of America's wealthiest people. He ran his firm with real intensity, ferocity,

0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 2>orchestrating like a real high pressure operation of roughly one

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred employees. His self promotion was legendary. He hired his

0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 2>own PR firm to help promote himself. His self promotion

0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:28.000
<v Speaker 2>tour included press for his his own book, written with

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 2>the aid of journalist Jeffrey G. Madrick, called merger Mania Arbitrage,

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street's best kept money making secret, and uh, yeah,

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:42.639
<v Speaker 2>you know that big old shady eating grin right on

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the front.

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:44.720
<v Speaker 3>It's so funny, like a book like that.

0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:47.159
<v Speaker 1>You're like, just like just considering where I grew up

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 1>in South Carolina, Like my dad worked at the post office.

0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Is like, is anybody in the post office you read this?

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Money Mania Army, Yeah, merger merger Mania, merger.

0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:00.959
<v Speaker 3>Mania Yeah, book cup out Walls, Yeah.

0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:04.640
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you just explaining investing in companies, getting

0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 1>in and getting out is probably the biggest lesson I've

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:08.920
<v Speaker 1>gotten in my.

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 3>Street.

0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:14.960
<v Speaker 1>What it even is to me, it's just a circus

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 1>that I can't understand.

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I agree, I find I find it all very

0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:27.400
<v Speaker 2>like brain mangling. In nineteen eighty six, Boski was invited

0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:31.320
<v Speaker 2>to provide a commencement speech at the University of California

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:35.879
<v Speaker 2>at Berkeley has School of Business. And this is where

0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:40.880
<v Speaker 2>that speech that was the inspiration for Gordon Gecko's infamous

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 2>framing was derived. But it's not exactly the same as

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Gecko's. What he said is greed is all right.

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.640
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I want you to know that I

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:55.119
<v Speaker 2>think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still

0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>feel good about yourself. It sounds like a cult leader.

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.000
<v Speaker 2>It's weird, you know what it has echoes of this

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 2>this uh, this, all this stuff emerging from both the

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:11.159
<v Speaker 2>Christian nationalist movement and Elon Musk where it's like empathy

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:12.479
<v Speaker 2>is bad.

0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, yeah, this.

0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Is saying the same thing in the sort of inverse.

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Greed is because self interest is good. It's very and

0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>randy in that way, like it's just.

0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 1>It's very Uh, discard the seven deadly sins and move on.

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Greed is okay, It's fine, right, fine, right right, Yeah.

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:34.880
<v Speaker 2>The Bible literally tells you that this is a deadly sin.

0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:37.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's one saying this. This is destructive to you

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.600
<v Speaker 1>personally and to all of people. But if you want

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 1>to have an elevator in your house, you gotta have

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of it.

0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 2>This is the I love the last sentence. You can

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:55.600
<v Speaker 2>be greedy and still feel good about yourself. That's awesome.

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:58.479
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So all of this is going on, and all

0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden record scratch, just months after riding high,

0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>it all unraveled. On November fourteenth, nineteen eighty six, ivan

0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Boski pleaded guilty to conspiring to file false trading records,

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>which is a complicated way of saying insider trading. Okay, basically,

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Time Magazine put his grinning face on the cover and

0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 2>dubbed him Ivan the Terrible, which is a little derivative,

0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:24.880
<v Speaker 2>but it's.

0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 3>Still better than Ivan the Bum from the Father.

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Sure not, and not as good as Ivan broke Ski Right,

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 2>that's right. One minute this guy is Wall Street Royalty,

0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the next he's a cautionary tale and the high roller

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:45.280
<v Speaker 2>era was over. He is headed to prison. Do you

0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>think that repeated success always turns people into egomaniacs or

0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 2>like just disasters? Is it possible to remain humble?

0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:01.280
<v Speaker 1>I think it's possible to remain humble, base done. I

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:07.560
<v Speaker 1>think how much you've acquired as a person before you've

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>reached that success. For instance, I think a lot of

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 1>people in our industry who find fame or fortune later

0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:17.000
<v Speaker 1>in their careers.

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Tend to be.

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:21.960
<v Speaker 1>So much a little more chill and fully aware that

0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 1>life is fickled and it can go away. And yesterday

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 1>I was doing this job and today I'm grateful I've

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 1>got this one. But I think when you have it

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 1>at a young age, and nothing against those people that

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:33.880
<v Speaker 1>get at a young age because they are missing that

0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of educational step. I think a lot of times

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 1>they can come off as awful people, and maybe it's

0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>something happens and they turn a corner and they change.

0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.720
<v Speaker 1>But you definitely see it in people who come from

0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:50.880
<v Speaker 1>a certain background. I think it's just learning the value

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:56.400
<v Speaker 1>of things, for sure. But I think people can remain humble.

0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 1>I tell people all the time that, like friends back

0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 1>home or people ask me if I've worked with someone,

0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 1>they always want to know if someone's a jerk.

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:05.440
<v Speaker 3>I go, I gotta be honest.

0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>It's very seldom I run into someone who I really

0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 1>think is just kind of a piece of shit. I go,

0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.520
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, everybody's just at their job, whether

0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:18.479
<v Speaker 1>they're wildly famous or not, and they're just trying to

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>do the job and then go home and hang out

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:25.760
<v Speaker 1>with their family. It's just kind of our universal situation.

0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Well you know what that means, Rory, What that means

0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:31.720
<v Speaker 2>you're the piece of shit?

0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god. Shit, if you.

0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Can't actually see how much other people are a piece

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 2>of shit, it means you're a giant piece of shit.

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Ahuck. I just thought they were so fun. I looked

0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 1>up to all of them.

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, our industry obviously is a very hot crucible

0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 2>of all of this stuff, But I think also just

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.640
<v Speaker 2>looking into the business world, you know, and seeing a

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:03.440
<v Speaker 2>special these these tech modern tech titans and you're Jeff

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Bezos's and so forth, it's really amazing. You can chart

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:12.880
<v Speaker 2>their values and their appearance, yeah, their physical appearance, how

0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:17.240
<v Speaker 2>it changes over time with their power and wealth, and

0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:23.000
<v Speaker 2>it's it's very disheartening, you know. The the notion that

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:28.880
<v Speaker 2>absolute power corrupts absolutely really seems to hold a lot

0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:29.560
<v Speaker 2>of water.

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes, one hundred percent. Yeah.

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>And also you do wonder, like in the origin story

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 1>of these billionaires or tech titans, you do wonder like,

0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 1>are they coming from a place of like sort of

0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 1>like ivan, like was it vengeance where they like, Oh,

0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:46.400
<v Speaker 1>I'll show this world I have value and I'll become

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 1>this because I think the world has treated me this way.

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:53.560
<v Speaker 1>There's such an irony to then becoming a billionaire who

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of in many ways runs the world and not

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.320
<v Speaker 1>having compassion for who might also be what you once were,

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.000
<v Speaker 1>but instead being like, no, those people are trash.

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like what, well that's what you right?

0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:10.880
<v Speaker 2>We have pictures of you, yeah, we have with pictures

0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:16.000
<v Speaker 2>of Jeff Bezos as the sweetest little nerd. Yeah, so

0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:16.640
<v Speaker 2>so bizarre.

0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:19.360
<v Speaker 3>I think That's why I like the brass rail bars.

0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Just keep me in that pocket where I can just

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 1>go get a beer in a pink glass.

0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to run the world.

0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Don't limit yourself, Rory, oh lot, you can't. We want

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>you to run the world.

0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:33.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean it'd be more fun.

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:37.480
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you that Burning Man wouldn't be just a week,

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:39.600
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't be just one week in one location.

0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you that.

0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Rory's world. All right, So how did we

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:55.080
<v Speaker 2>get here? How did this epic crumble of a Wall

0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Street titan occur? It starts in nineteen eighty two, when

0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Bowski took a brutal hit, losing sixty million dollars on

0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:06.959
<v Speaker 2>a bad deal. Again that that's a lot of money,

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 2>but it was way more back then. Uh. Suddenly, this

0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 2>guy who always seemed to be one step ahead was underwater.

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 2>And that's when the line started to blur. The pressure mounted,

0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:25.600
<v Speaker 2>the bets got darker, and Bosky crossed into insider trading.

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything more human than trying to recover from

0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:32.759
<v Speaker 2>a humiliating loss by just immediately making a series of

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:38.399
<v Speaker 2>worst decisions. It is true. It's our common bond. It's

0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 2>such it makes us all human. Yeah, even on a

0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:47.040
<v Speaker 2>small scale. I just feel like like if you, you know,

0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 2>you spill something in your lap, and then your panic

0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 2>makes you spill like some much older shit.

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:55.440
<v Speaker 3>God. Yeah.

0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:59.480
<v Speaker 2>So now it's nineteen eighty five and Bosky's having an

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 2>amazing year, and so were a lot of other savvy traders,

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:06.960
<v Speaker 2>all raking in millions. In fact, they were winning so

0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 2>hard that it was beginning to feel an awful lot

0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:15.640
<v Speaker 2>like somebody knew something somewhere that somehow was tipping off

0:35:15.680 --> 0:35:21.319
<v Speaker 2>those someone's with some slick insider gravy. Basically, regulators began

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:25.600
<v Speaker 2>to suspect that the stench of insider information was bubbling

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.400
<v Speaker 2>up from the sewage of these multimillion dollar deals. Quick

0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street check in, do you understand what insider trading is?

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Yessexually I think so.

0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:39.880
<v Speaker 1>For instance, your example earlier about a business being acquired

0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:43.239
<v Speaker 1>by another business and finding that out and deciding, all right,

0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:45.759
<v Speaker 1>let's buy low so we can sell high because we

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 1>know it's coming.

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>So the honest way to do that is to just

0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:51.880
<v Speaker 2>do your research and your homework and try to figure

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:54.880
<v Speaker 2>out which companies are going to get bought. The illegal

0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:59.280
<v Speaker 2>insider trading version is for someone who knows a company

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:01.760
<v Speaker 2>is about to be bought to tell to like whisper

0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>it to you, so you can then go and buy

0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 2>those shares, and then as soon as the company's bought

0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 2>those the value of those shares just like rockets up.

0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it seems like it's very legal now because it

0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 1>seems to occur quite often in including with Iran white House.

0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:24.799
<v Speaker 2>Yes, directly, well, it is. It's so ironic. And of

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 2>course within Congress, so many Congress people have so much

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:34.839
<v Speaker 2>access to what is considered inside information. Yes, because they

0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:39.200
<v Speaker 2>know about laws that are coming that will dramatically affect

0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:43.120
<v Speaker 2>these various companies and industries, and they can invest accordingly,

0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:46.239
<v Speaker 2>and they do, and it is so dark. And the

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:50.640
<v Speaker 2>irony is that the Securities and Exchange Commission, which is

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:54.800
<v Speaker 2>tasked with catching these people and bringing them to justice,

0:36:55.280 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 2>they now have incredible analytics and you know, tools to

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:04.680
<v Speaker 2>catch people doing this stuff and to catch sort of

0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 2>suspicious activity and then be able to research massive amounts

0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:12.120
<v Speaker 2>of data more quickly. Like the tools to catch these

0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>people are better than ever, and yet it feels like

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 2>we're just swimming in it more than ever, which is insane.

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 3>All the time.

0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, So these investigators back in the day,

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:26.120
<v Speaker 2>they thought they smelled something and they were exactly right.

0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:29.680
<v Speaker 2>According to Fortune, it was in nineteen eighty five that

0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 2>the SEC began to unravel a tangled web, Beginning with

0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>two Merrill Lynch employees in Venezuela. The SEC managed to

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:44.320
<v Speaker 2>connect them to high profile investment banker Dennis Levine, among others,

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and it was Levine who then gave up the gossip

0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:55.640
<v Speaker 2>on Gordon Gek, I mean Ivan Boski. Levine had struck

0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.239
<v Speaker 2>a deal to cooperate with the US Attorney of the

0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Southern District of New York, who was wait for it,

0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Rudy Giuliani. Oh wow, this of course is pre mayoral,

0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:12.919
<v Speaker 2>pre disbarred, pre four seasons total landscaping Juliani.

0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 3>The four seasons thing will live forever.

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 3>Just yeah. But then act like you meant to do it.

0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:28.920
<v Speaker 2>The abject stupidity of it all, and the it's so shocking, yeah,

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:30.799
<v Speaker 2>and shocking to think there was a time when he

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.600
<v Speaker 2>was actually on the right side of things like this,

0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.400
<v Speaker 2>was he was actually doing good work as the attorney

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.879
<v Speaker 2>for the Southern District of New York. It was yeah, yeah,

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:44.920
<v Speaker 2>so Levine admitted to providing Boski with non public information

0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:49.760
<v Speaker 2>about pending deals, and this was enough to bring Bosky

0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 2>in and they caught him red handed. Then, interestingly, Boski

0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.040
<v Speaker 2>would make a deal of his own with the Department

0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.200
<v Speaker 2>of Justice, and this would lower his prison sentence from

0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:03.839
<v Speaker 2>five years to three. Not only did he wind up

0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 2>paying a hundred million dollars, which at the time was

0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:12.600
<v Speaker 2>a record high penalty for for such criminal activity, he

0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:17.840
<v Speaker 2>also agreed to tattle on other traders by secretly recording

0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:20.200
<v Speaker 2>them and turning them over to authorities.

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:22.080
<v Speaker 3>He's one of those guys.

0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hearked, he narked, he returned, he he did. He

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:31.200
<v Speaker 2>did bad things and then tried to get off the

0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:38.240
<v Speaker 2>hook by doing bad things to other bad guys. I guess, yeah,

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 2>And it's very morally ambiguous.

0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:43.320
<v Speaker 3>You didn't feel.

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 2>About it, Yeah, because you don't like rats. Rats are

0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:48.480
<v Speaker 2>like they're the worst, they're turncoats, but like, oftentimes they're

0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>on the morally and ethically correct side of things.

0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you should, you actually should admire them, but you're like, no.

0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:57.280
<v Speaker 2>No, now I respect you even less. Yeah, you should

0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:59.560
<v Speaker 2>have been a criminal to begin with. Yeah, but now

0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:01.560
<v Speaker 2>that you are one leave the other criminals alone.

0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:02.319
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it's the it's the cynicism of it, right,

0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's not coming from a good place. Right, Yeah, Yeah,

0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.520
<v Speaker 2>there you go. The fall from grace was swift and merciless.

0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:19.200
<v Speaker 2>In the nineteen eighty six Times article, an unidentified friend

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of Boski's is quoted he wanted so much to be accepted,

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.839
<v Speaker 2>and he thought money was the only way. That's kind

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:31.080
<v Speaker 2>of poignant, actually, said another investment banker, also unidentified, is

0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:34.800
<v Speaker 2>quoted as saying, I always knew he was a rat.

0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:41.719
<v Speaker 2>That's in Time magazine. I always knew he was a rat.

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:45.880
<v Speaker 2>That's like so Shakespearean for to see money in your future.

0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:48.879
<v Speaker 2>The other guy so poignant and so intelligent and deep.

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Money isn't the path. Oh all right, well you're also

0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:56.760
<v Speaker 2>a trader. You're also in investments. A few quick hits

0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:01.400
<v Speaker 2>on his swift downfall, his book merges Hermania, was immediately

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:05.040
<v Speaker 2>dropped by the publisher, Henry Holt and Company. He was

0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 2>forced to scrap a plan to remodel his Westchester County

0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 2>family home to mirror that of Thomas Jefferson's Monticello. A

0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 2>common goal for all, sure, I mean we all want

0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 2>to get there. We all want we all want our

0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 2>homes to look like Monticello. Yeah, I mean what this

0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:29.080
<v Speaker 2>is the Hubris Like Jesus. He was forced to withdraw

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>as a trustee at the American Ballet Theater. You know

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:35.319
<v Speaker 2>that hurt. He had to cancel and rescind a one

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:37.719
<v Speaker 2>and a half million dollar grant to Princeton where his

0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.520
<v Speaker 2>son was attending. Who that's going to be hard on

0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:40.919
<v Speaker 2>the sun?

0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:41.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:47.399
<v Speaker 2>One crazy aside. John mulharn Junior, one of Boski's proteges,

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:51.239
<v Speaker 2>feared he himself was about to be implicated in the

0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:54.640
<v Speaker 2>scandal and allegedly loaded an assault rifle with the intent

0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.440
<v Speaker 2>of killing Bosky and his former head trader, but he

0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:02.960
<v Speaker 2>was stopped en route. According to police. Oh wow, Bosky

0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.280
<v Speaker 2>pissed some people off. Of course, he got prison time

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and this massive fine. This is also interesting. Bosky was

0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:14.960
<v Speaker 2>permanently banned from work in the financial sector, never to

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 2>touch stocks, bonds, any kind of securities. Again, Rory, what

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:21.520
<v Speaker 2>if you got banned from comedy?

0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:26.640
<v Speaker 3>I was just I was literally going, what would I do? Yeah,

0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:30.600
<v Speaker 3>what's my plan? B I don't know.

0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I think I'd open a coffee shop, or I'd try

0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:36.040
<v Speaker 1>to coach college soccer.

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 2>That's cool, all right, that's actually those are both nights.

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:41.640
<v Speaker 2>You could do both.

0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:43.879
<v Speaker 3>Actually, try to do both of those. I actually try

0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:44.719
<v Speaker 3>to have both of those things.

0:42:44.760 --> 0:42:48.880
<v Speaker 1>A soccer catheic college soccer coffee place. Yeah, sure for

0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:52.319
<v Speaker 1>the team, like the peach pin in nine two. Well, so,

0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:59.320
<v Speaker 1>even having to pay this exorbitant penalty, Bosky was fine.

0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Like he's had a ton of money.

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 2>And after he was kicked off Wall Street, a lot

0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:10.479
<v Speaker 2>more regulations and rules were set up in the world

0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:14.000
<v Speaker 2>of finance to keep insider trading under control. Most notably

0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.480
<v Speaker 2>was the addition of the Inside Trading and Securities Fraud

0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:21.719
<v Speaker 2>Enforcement Act of nineteen eighty eight. This act increased penalties

0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:26.000
<v Speaker 2>for insider trading, required firms to improve internal controls, and

0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 2>introduced a bounty for informants. In April nineteen ninety, Boski

0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:35.839
<v Speaker 2>was released for cooperating with the Feds, serving only two

0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.280
<v Speaker 2>of his three year sentence. Bosky would recede from public

0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:42.360
<v Speaker 2>view and live out his days in relative peace, having

0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 2>passed away in May twenty twenty four. Forever a reminder, Yeah,

0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:50.160
<v Speaker 2>he just passed away a couple of years ago.

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Oh wow, Yeah.

0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I gotta say, like, if he's getting out of it

0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.080
<v Speaker 1>with all that money, it's kind of like what a

0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.640
<v Speaker 1>great retirement. Sure you don't want to do two years

0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.880
<v Speaker 1>in prison, but now you're out of the game and

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:06.960
<v Speaker 1>you still have enough money to just go and coast.

0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:09.359
<v Speaker 3>It's just coast till it's over.

0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he was. I'm sure he was in like

0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:17.120
<v Speaker 2>a relatively pleasant white collar prison too. It wasn't like that.

0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:21.239
<v Speaker 2>But here's what's interesting. A lot of people look at

0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>things like this, and and whatever side you're on, you

0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:28.440
<v Speaker 2>might just be like, well, that's these are relatively victimless crimes,

0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:32.279
<v Speaker 2>right that they're They're just it's just numbers, it's just

0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:36.000
<v Speaker 2>financial finagling, Like is anyone getting hurt. But the truth

0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:39.040
<v Speaker 2>is these deals that were happening in the eighties and

0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:43.799
<v Speaker 2>on Wall Street, both the the the Raider, the sort

0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of corporate raider culture and all of this this short

0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:52.839
<v Speaker 2>buying and selling that was going on. These moves demolished

0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:56.120
<v Speaker 2>companies and put thousands of people out of work. That's

0:44:56.160 --> 0:44:58.960
<v Speaker 2>part of the great story in Wall Street is the

0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Charlie Sheen's dad, played by his reel dad Martin Gene,

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:06.360
<v Speaker 2>is a mechanic at this company that Gordon Gecko is

0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 2>about to you know, break apart and he's going to

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>lose his job, which is a very sort of personal,

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:16.040
<v Speaker 2>poignant depiction of what I'm talking about. Yeah, that these

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 2>are not victimless crimes, that they there's a massive price

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:24.040
<v Speaker 2>to be paid, and it's being paid by working class people.

0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, one could argue that a two

0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 2>year prison sentence, Oh that feels fine, because all he

0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:35.600
<v Speaker 2>was doing is like pushing pencils around and like, you know,

0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 2>changing numbers. Maybe that's not fair, Maybe that's not enough,

0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:39.239
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:41.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I were just talking about earlier about how

0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:45.879
<v Speaker 1>rampant it is now as a thing. You're like, oh god,

0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:48.520
<v Speaker 1>now it doesn't even like two years almost seems insane

0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 1>to get any kind of penalty whatsoever. And you're right,

0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.399
<v Speaker 1>it's the blue collar working class that pays for it.

0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:59.600
<v Speaker 2>That's our story. Rory scovell Any final thoughts reflections that

0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.239
<v Speaker 2>it did it teach you anything about humanity?

0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I feel like I always knew there was this

0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:11.759
<v Speaker 1>evil out there, this greed, but you having quoted that

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:15.600
<v Speaker 1>speech does make me feel like, what's the harm in

0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:19.680
<v Speaker 1>getting my hands a little dirty for just a couple

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:24.040
<v Speaker 1>months even you know what I mean, You can do okay,

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:26.080
<v Speaker 1>I got a little cash on the side.

0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:31.160
<v Speaker 2>You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself.

0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:36.400
<v Speaker 2>That is the lesson here, Yes, that's what I want

0:46:37.200 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 2>to your point though, I really like that you're connecting

0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:46.239
<v Speaker 2>it to this moment because the playbook hasn't changed since then.

0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Right Bosky believed winning proved he was right, And once

0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:56.479
<v Speaker 2>you convince yourself of that, the rules feel optional, which

0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:59.600
<v Speaker 2>is very much the energy of this Trump administration.

0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:00.920
<v Speaker 3>It's so much of it.

0:47:01.120 --> 0:47:03.960
<v Speaker 2>And if you if you win, if you're just winning,

0:47:04.360 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 2>if you're just making libs cry, then then you don't

0:47:09.640 --> 0:47:12.560
<v Speaker 2>actually have to adhere to any standards or rules or

0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:15.400
<v Speaker 2>frameworks or even the fucking Constitution.

0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:16.880
<v Speaker 3>I know, I know.

0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:21.960
<v Speaker 1>It's it's certainly a lesson in how critical these institutions

0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:25.759
<v Speaker 1>to a degree are, not that they can't all be improved,

0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:29.680
<v Speaker 1>but we're learning that if you demolish any of these institutions,

0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:34.120
<v Speaker 1>you're up against a whole new a whole new beast

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:37.520
<v Speaker 1>of rebuild. If you get the chance, if you get

0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:39.120
<v Speaker 1>the chance to rebuild.

0:47:39.040 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 2>If if yeah, if we're lucky enough, yeah to come

0:47:42.600 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 2>back in some way and build it back.

0:47:45.040 --> 0:47:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Better, stronger, more rules, more regulations. Yeah, more accountability, but yeah,

0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 1>I think as individuals, if we don't have, if we

0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 1>don't care about accountability, then none of it can hold up.

0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:59.120
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what's interesting. Having done tons of these

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:03.200
<v Speaker 2>stories about about major snaffoos, and so many of them

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:08.920
<v Speaker 2>are the result of darker forces in human nature, the

0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:14.640
<v Speaker 2>one thing that rarely happens is accountability of any kind.

0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:18.120
<v Speaker 2>And in this case, even two years of prison is like,

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:22.520
<v Speaker 2>thank god, he got something like It's just it feels

0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:26.560
<v Speaker 2>like a little small morsel of justice, not like full justice.

0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:28.760
<v Speaker 3>Slap on the wrist, Roy Schohold.

0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:31.920
<v Speaker 2>This has been an absolute delight and a pleasure.

0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, thanks for inviting me. I appreciate it.

0:48:34.200 --> 0:48:35.399
<v Speaker 3>That was a fun road to go down.

0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:39.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, we'll see out there. Snafu is a production

0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:44.200
<v Speaker 2>of Ihearts Podcasts and Snafu Media, a partnership between Film

0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company, post production and

0:48:48.280 --> 0:48:52.200
<v Speaker 2>creative support from good Egg Audio. Our executive producers are

0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:56.200
<v Speaker 2>me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, and

0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Tory Smith. Our managing producer is Carl Nellis. Our video

0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:08.720
<v Speaker 2>editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.

0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Additional story editing from Carl Nellis. Our creative executive is

0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:16.319
<v Speaker 2>Brett Harris. Logo and branding by Matt Gosson and the

0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and

0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Kline,

0:49:25.960 --> 0:49:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry

0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Lieberman and Nikki Ator. While I have you, don't forget

0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:36.800
<v Speaker 2>to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo, The

0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available now

0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:45.800
<v Speaker 2>from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook dot com.

0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, and see you next week.