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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: mat and today we're talking getting paid in a career

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Speaker 1: you love with Eleanna Goldstein. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, unemployment right now is basically at all time lows.

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Speaker 1: The Bureau of.

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Speaker 2: Labor Statistics reported last month the crazy low rate of

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Speaker 2: three point seven percent. That is really tough to beat.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean everyone is super happy with their jobs.

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Speaker 2: A recent poll showed that around sixty percent of workers

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Speaker 2: were planning to leave their jobs by the end of

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Speaker 2: the year. That doesn't not sound like a bunch of

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Speaker 2: happy workers to me, and regardless if it's because they're

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Speaker 2: not getting paid enough or maybe because the work isn't

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Speaker 2: a good fit. We are so excited to be joined

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Speaker 2: by career coach Ellianna Goldstein. She such a deep understanding

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Speaker 2: of both the personal and professional challenges individuals face in

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Speaker 2: their careers, and she works to empower her clients to

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Speaker 2: discover their crew potential, just guiding them through personalized strategies

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Speaker 2: that will help them to achieve their career goals. Eliana,

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Speaker 2: We're excited to talk about getting paid, more excited about

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Speaker 2: maybe even touching on what it might look like to

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Speaker 2: shifts or to pivot in your career. We're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about all that more today. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Of course, thank you for having me. I'm very excited

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Speaker 3: to talk about all this as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess how can I get Matt to

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Speaker 1: pay me more? Elliana? And that's my said, no, first

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Speaker 1: question we ask everybody a great job, Oh, thank you.

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Speaker 1: The first question we ask everyone who comes on this

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Speaker 1: show is what's their craft beer equivalent? And that means, well,

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Speaker 1: Matt and I we spend a ridiculous amount of money

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Speaker 1: some would say on craft beer, but we're still saving

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Speaker 1: and investing for our future me and whyse at the

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Speaker 1: same time, So what's that for you? What's that splurge

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Speaker 1: item in your life?

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Speaker 3: So I would say this splurge item in my life

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Speaker 3: currently is skinting care products. I feel like, as i'm

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Speaker 3: you know, when I feel is getting older, I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: more so just about aging and those types of things.

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Speaker 4: So I definitely spend more money on that than I should.

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Speaker 3: And I am such a sucker for Instagram ads, and

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Speaker 3: obviously they very much have targeted me. It's just like

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Speaker 3: I'm constantly getting ads for different skincare products and it's

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Speaker 3: so easy to purchase on Instagram, and I'm just like, okay,

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Speaker 3: we'll do another one. Let's just throw it in the

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Speaker 3: medicine cabinet. So that's definitely my problem.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing how the algorithm knows us better than we

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Speaker 1: know ourselves. Yeah. Oh, it's kind of freaky.

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Speaker 2: It knows our deepest fears and exactly.

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Speaker 4: They prey on those insecurities for sure.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny. I mean, it's just the stage of

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Speaker 2: life we're in. Like, just before we hit record, we're

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Speaker 2: joking about your husband and his need to go see

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Speaker 2: his physical therapist. Joel just went and got a stretched

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Speaker 2: session on I guess his hamies. We're barking out.

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Speaker 1: Of a little bit. Yeah, I mean that maintenance swinger

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Speaker 1: totally relate. Yeah, you didn't think you would in your twenties,

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Speaker 1: but now you do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is crazy happens.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about jobs, well careers specifically, like how

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Speaker 2: did you become a career expert? I guess we're gonna

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Speaker 2: let's we kind of want to get to know you

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Speaker 2: because we've recently met you. What is it that led

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Speaker 2: you down your current career path?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I have a career path I'm sure that

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Speaker 3: many people will be able to relate to this. I

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Speaker 3: prior to career coaching, I worked in the ad tech

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Speaker 3: industry for about a decade. I was in ad sales,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like many people had graduated from college

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Speaker 3: marketing degree, was fortunate to find a job pretty quickly

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Speaker 3: and sort of just climb the typical career ladder.

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Speaker 4: I was a marketing coordinator.

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Speaker 3: I moved into account management and into sales, and on paper,

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Speaker 3: everything looked really good, but in terms of how I

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Speaker 3: was feeling internally, I was feeling very disconnected. I was

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Speaker 3: unhappy in what I was doing. But like many of us,

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Speaker 3: I had always been told, you know, pursue the money,

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Speaker 3: pursue the stability. You're lucky enough, you have a job.

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Speaker 3: So I sort of just kept pushing along that path.

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Speaker 3: And at a certain point I just said to myself,

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Speaker 3: I cannot do this another ten years, let alone another

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Speaker 3: two or three years. And I kind of made a

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Speaker 3: number of little pivots here and there, all hoping that

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Speaker 3: those would lead me to call it more satisfaction, more fulfillment,

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Speaker 3: but it didn't really happen, and at a certain point

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Speaker 3: I just kind of said, okay, I need to really

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Speaker 3: do a one eighty and I, you know, just like

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Speaker 3: went down this path of a lot of reflection and

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Speaker 3: introspection and doing market research and just talking to tons

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Speaker 3: of people, and that's what led me into coaching and realizing, Okay,

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Speaker 3: like this feels a lot more in alignment, this feels

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Speaker 3: a lot more.

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Speaker 4: That just makes sense for me. So while I was still.

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Speaker 3: Working, I went to a program to become a certified

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Speaker 3: professional coach and then started the business as a side

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Speaker 3: hustle like many people do, and did it as a

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Speaker 3: side hustle for a little bit, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: eventually went full time and now have been doing this

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Speaker 3: full time for four years.

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Speaker 4: So it's been a while journey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So Matt. Matt started off this episode and

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Speaker 1: he did he kind of talked about some of the

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Speaker 1: current statistics, what's happening in the labor marketing. A lot

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Speaker 1: of what we're going to talk about. It's not all

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Speaker 1: about macroeconomic conditions and whether or not you're able to

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Speaker 1: progress in your career based on the unemployment rate or like,

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Speaker 1: but it does impact on our ability to job hop

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Speaker 1: right or to increase our pay. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: what what's your read on the job mark right now?

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Speaker 1: What's your take on how things look for job seekers?

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Speaker 1: Because they're not as good as they were. Conditions aren't

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Speaker 1: as good as they were like eighteen months ago. But

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Speaker 1: those yeah, that was also like unicorn sort of conditions.

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Speaker 1: So what do things look like now?

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Speaker 3: You know? I think, like you said, obviously, things are

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Speaker 3: definitely on their way to getting better. But I think

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Speaker 3: at the same time, it's still it's still a challenging market.

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Speaker 3: And some would say, like whereas you know, call it

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Speaker 3: eighteen months or even before that, Like a while before that,

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Speaker 3: it was much more of a job seeker market, right,

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Speaker 3: They had a lot more power and there was a

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Speaker 3: lot more opportunity. Now it's kind of shifting, or at

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Speaker 3: least for most job seekers, feels like it's shifting towards

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Speaker 3: more of an employer market where they have more of

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Speaker 3: the power and as a result, they can be a

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Speaker 3: little bit pickier about who they're going for, right And

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Speaker 3: as a result, job seekers also feel like to a

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Speaker 3: degree that maybe they have to settle. I can't necessarily

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Speaker 3: be as picky or choosy as I was in the past.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I can't negotiate as much as I have in

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Speaker 3: the past. So it's definitely it's challenging from that perspective,

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Speaker 3: and I think people feel frustrated with that. I think

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Speaker 3: just in general, you know, the pandemic has really turned

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Speaker 3: everything on its head, just in terms of how we

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Speaker 3: hire people and longer interview processes, which can be frustrating,

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Speaker 3: and it's just a lot is different now and again,

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Speaker 3: while I think even from like six months ago, things

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Speaker 3: are feeling better, whereas I saw with a lot of

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Speaker 3: my clients called six months ago is a lot more

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Speaker 3: challenging to get an offer, and now I'm seeing that

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Speaker 3: turn around. But I still think we're not in this

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Speaker 3: place where yeah, like it's like if I want a

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Speaker 3: new job, I can put two or three months in

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Speaker 3: and easily get something new.

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Speaker 4: Right, It's not that simple anymore.

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Speaker 1: There's more equilibrium.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like call it yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well okay, So I mean aside for like, I

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Speaker 2: guess some of the obvious reasons that folks are unhappy, Like,

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Speaker 2: I guess, what have you seen from your clients that

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Speaker 2: are making them unhappy with their job? And I guess

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Speaker 2: I want to put this within the context of your

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Speaker 2: job as passion, passion work, right, like have we do

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Speaker 2: you think we sold folks at like a bill of goods?

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Speaker 2: That's not quite reality about loving what it is that

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Speaker 2: you do for work, or do you think that that's

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Speaker 2: something that people should actually be aiming for.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a very big believer that you should

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Speaker 3: love what you do. Now that doesn't I don't necessarily

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Speaker 3: believe in the idea of the dream job. I think

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Speaker 3: that is false marketing and that there's no job out

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Speaker 3: there that's perfect and every day is going to be

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Speaker 3: a pleasure. Right, There's always going to be challenges, there's

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Speaker 3: always going to be difficulties.

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Speaker 1: But I can't work for a reason, right exactly.

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Speaker 4: They call it work for a reason.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm a believer that we

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Speaker 3: spend a third of our lives working. It shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: a place that's miserable for us every day, right. That

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Speaker 3: just seems terrible to spend a third of our lives

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Speaker 3: being miserable and something that we basically all have to

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Speaker 3: do in order to live and support ourselves.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And the other third of your life, that's

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Speaker 1: how you justify that.

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Speaker 2: Really nice mattress, I was going to say yes, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: our mind meld.

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Speaker 1: To actually separate a little bit. Two thirds of your

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Speaker 1: life is awesome, and then you just got to figure

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Speaker 1: out the other time.

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Speaker 3: And again I'm not I don't try to be unrealistic that,

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Speaker 3: like odds, you're going to be so.

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Speaker 4: Happy every single day.

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Speaker 3: But I am a believer, like I always say, we should,

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Speaker 3: we should somewhat look forward to Monday mornings. Right, So

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Speaker 3: I and you mentioned before you were talking a little

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Speaker 3: bit about passions and this notion of you no passions

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Speaker 3: and driving a fulfilling career. I think that's a very misconcept,

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Speaker 3: big misconception. I think that pursuing your passions as a

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Speaker 3: means to get more career satisfaction and fulfillment does not work.

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Speaker 4: I think I talk a lot about.

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Speaker 3: Career values as the basis for feeling fulfilled and feeling

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Speaker 3: aligned because quite honestly, like I always give the example,

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Speaker 3: let's just say you're passionate about food, and you assume, okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go get you know, a role in

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Speaker 3: something related to food in the food industry, even if

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Speaker 3: your manager is awful, if you're not able to be

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Speaker 3: creative in that role, if you don't have a work

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Speaker 3: life balance.

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Speaker 4: When that's something that you value.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be miserable, no matter how passionate you

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Speaker 3: are about food.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's a lot of other things we need

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Speaker 3: to be thinking about when it comes to career satisfaction.

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Speaker 1: Can you dive a little deeper on the values versus

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Speaker 1: passion thing? Because I think that's a really good point,

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Speaker 1: And I think you're one hundred percent right, Like, you

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Speaker 1: can do a job that you don't love if your

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Speaker 1: coworkers are the coolest people on the face of the planet.

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Speaker 1: Man like that, I wouldn't mind digging ditches with the

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Speaker 1: best people in the world, Like, I could be really happy.

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Speaker 1: So talk to me about the values verse passion thing

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Speaker 1: just a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So when we think about career values, we're

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Speaker 3: thinking about things like creativity, autonomy, collaboration, adaptability, recognition. Right,

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Speaker 3: really getting clear on what is it that I value

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Speaker 3: most in my career and how do I make sure

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Speaker 3: that I can find those values in a team, in

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Speaker 3: an industry.

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Speaker 4: In a company.

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Speaker 3: Right Because again, as I said before, sure, maybe it

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Speaker 3: helps to work in the food industry if you love

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Speaker 3: working in the food industry, But if you're someone who

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Speaker 3: values collaboration and you're working completely autonomously in that role

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Speaker 3: in the food industry, you're never going to be happy, right,

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Speaker 3: So you really need to think about, Okay, what is

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Speaker 3: it that I value most specifically in my career and

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Speaker 3: sometimes your career values can look a little bit different

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Speaker 3: than your personal values, right Yeah, and then figuring out, Okay,

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Speaker 3: how do I find an environment that is supportive and

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Speaker 3: that is relatable from with those values?

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Speaker 2: So does it come down to identifying some of those

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Speaker 2: some of those values, some of the things that are

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Speaker 2: important to you when it comes to what it is

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Speaker 2: that your work should embody? Is that the first step

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Speaker 2: in determining if the job that you have is a

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Speaker 2: good fit. I guess what I'm looking for is I

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Speaker 2: was curious to see if you could give listeners any

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Speaker 2: like symptoms or red flags to look out for for

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Speaker 2: them to know that, hey, maybe it's time for a

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Speaker 2: new job. Is it just the mismatch of those value

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Speaker 2: use with what it is that your job is actually delivering.

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Speaker 4: So that's one of them. That's definitely one, I would say.

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Speaker 3: In terms of a few others, it's how much of

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Speaker 3: your work are you engaged in?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Like As an employee, we do a variety of different

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Speaker 3: projects and tasks, and you want to ask yourself on

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Speaker 3: a daily basis how much of I super engaged in

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Speaker 3: and how much am I disengaged in? And I generally

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Speaker 3: ideally want to see that you know, sixty to seventy

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Speaker 3: percent of the work you're super engaged in. So if

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Speaker 3: you are finding that most of what you're doing is

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Speaker 3: just you're completely dreading it. It's making you want to

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Speaker 3: rip your hair out, and you just can't imagine doing

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Speaker 3: this much longer, then that's obviously definitely a sign.

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Speaker 4: That's a big one. I would say.

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Speaker 3: Another big one is thinking about internal mobility and growth paths.

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Speaker 3: Is there an internal growth path that you see for

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Speaker 3: yourself at that company where you're going, whether it's lateral

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Speaker 3: movement or vertical movement. I want to move into a

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Speaker 3: managerial position, I want to move, you know, across to

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Speaker 3: a different department. Do I see that internal path for

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Speaker 3: myself here? And if not, that's definitely a big indicator

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Speaker 3: that you know something is not right. And then I

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Speaker 3: would say too, you know, we all hear the term

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Speaker 3: toxic work environment, but it is it is an important one.

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Speaker 3: Right If you're in an environment where you just your

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Speaker 3: manager is just you either don't get along with them,

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Speaker 3: or you're feeling like they're creating a really toxic culture.

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Speaker 3: You're uncomfortable in any way. Whether that's coming from a manager,

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Speaker 3: whether that's coming from a coworker, those are all signs

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Speaker 3: that it's definitely time to explore something new.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell me when you're talking to clients, how often

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Speaker 1: is it the misalignment of values that is the main

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Speaker 1: reason for job switching, and how often is it pay?

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Speaker 1: My guess, my assumption is that the values thing is

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Speaker 1: typically actually a bigger reason why people want to switch jobs,

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Speaker 1: But then pay is also another reason. I think people

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Speaker 1: are like, hey, cool, I actually don't mind my job.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's not perfect, but my goodness, it feels like

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Speaker 1: I should be getting paid thirty k more. Was that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What does those conversations look like?

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Speaker 3: It's a great question, I think, you know, I think,

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Speaker 3: on a surf the surface, a lot of the times

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Speaker 3: it's pay right, and people kind of feel like I

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Speaker 3: could be making.

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Speaker 4: A lot more than I am right now.

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Speaker 3: But it's almost like then when you kind of take

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Speaker 3: a deeper look at things, there's there's almost always a

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Speaker 3: values misalignment too. So so pay feels like the easy

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Speaker 3: thing because it's just it's it's so easy to evaluate it,

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Speaker 3: but we never really think about it or taught, oh,

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Speaker 3: let me think about my career values. Right, it's not

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Speaker 3: like a topic of conversation. So a lot of the

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Speaker 3: times there's a misalignment there and we're just not aware

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Speaker 3: of it. And it just requires some digging and some

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Speaker 3: reflection and some you know, like I call it doing

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Speaker 3: like the self audit of yourself and taking time to

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Speaker 3: really think.

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Speaker 4: Through all of that.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense that so oftentimes we do think about

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Speaker 2: pay because it's such a quantifiable thing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean those other things that.

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Speaker 2: It's a personal scorecard like how much of a raise

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Speaker 2: did I get this year versus last year? But like

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Speaker 2: you said, I love So it's almost like a medical condition,

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Speaker 2: like with your body, Like oftentimes you get a headache,

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Speaker 2: like no matter what, whether you're dehydrate did whether you've

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Speaker 2: got the flu, whether, I don't know all these things.

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Speaker 2: A lot of times maybe the surface symptom might be

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Speaker 2: something like a headache, but in reality it's just like

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, let's talk about some of the deeper

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Speaker 2: issues that are going on here. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: totally true with what you're saying in regards to values.

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Speaker 2: But I mean that being said, we're out of money here.

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Speaker 1: Eliotta, how I get it.

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Speaker 2: I get it, yet not how to not how to

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Speaker 2: value although maybe we we want that for people like

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Speaker 2: which that we want that for ourselves for sure? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and specifically, I'm curious because I feel like one of

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Speaker 2: the first steps towards us. I mean, obviously you can

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Speaker 2: go to different job postings and boards and different things

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Speaker 2: and ask around and figure out maybe what it is

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Speaker 2: that equivalent similar positions are getting paid. But how would

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Speaker 2: you recommend even to just bring up the topic of

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Speaker 2: pay at work? Is that something that you recommend doing

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Speaker 2: with co workers? Does that seem like gossip? Do a

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Speaker 2: lot of managers? Do they disapprove that kind of talk.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear your thoughts and your experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think obviously it's great because transparency

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Speaker 3: is becoming, you know, a much bigger topic right now,

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Speaker 3: and people are getting more comfortable sharing those things. And

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Speaker 3: I think it is important because there needs to be

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Speaker 3: equity in that From that perspective, and we won't know

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Speaker 3: what's going on unless we ask someone, right, So you know,

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's like it's it depends on some

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Speaker 3: people are much more comfortable talking about that than others.

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Speaker 3: I would say, like, maybe if you have a coworker

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Speaker 3: who you're really close with and who you feel comfortable with,

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Speaker 3: then absolutely, you know, approach that conversation and see what's

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't necessarily just be like.

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Speaker 3: Going up to people or you know that you're not

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Speaker 3: as connected with, Hey, like, let's talk about how much

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Speaker 3: we're making.

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Speaker 1: Right, I'd like to do it with the urnal next

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Speaker 1: to somebody random, Hey, Jim, how much you getting paid?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's really fun. Yeah, for the

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Speaker 1: more PC company white slack, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine, oh my god, in the slack of

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Speaker 3: they would people be freaking out? But yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: that it is an important conversation to be having, especially

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Speaker 3: with your peers and the people that are on the

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Speaker 3: same level as you too. Again, make sure you know,

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Speaker 3: like am I being underpaid?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: You need to know that kind of information. I do

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Speaker 3: also think it's important to have those conversations with your manager.

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Speaker 3: They might not be as excited about having those conversations,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of the time it's also complicated for them, right,

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Speaker 3: Like they don't necessarily control those budgets, right, So they

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Speaker 3: might have employees that they would love to pay more

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Speaker 3: and would love to give a promotion or raise to,

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Speaker 3: but there's a lot of people above them that are.

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Speaker 4: Those decision makers.

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Speaker 3: But I still think that if you do the proper

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Speaker 3: market research right, and it's pretty easy, there are so

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Speaker 3: many like tools and resources out there to see, you know,

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Speaker 3: based on my job title in the city that I'm

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Speaker 3: in and my years of experience, what is the average

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Speaker 3: pay for the role that I'm in and where am

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Speaker 3: I falling in line with that? And if you're seen

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Speaker 3: that what you're getting paid is significantly below, then maybe

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Speaker 3: from there you go to, Okay, let me like tap

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Speaker 3: a coworker of mine that I feel really comfortable with

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Speaker 3: and see like, is this a company wide.

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Speaker 4: Thing or is this just a me thing?

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Speaker 3: And obviously if it's a company wide thing, it might

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Speaker 3: be a little bit harder to change things because now

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Speaker 3: you're talking about, yeah, like company wide change. This just

384
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Speaker 3: might be a company that like vastly underpays people, in

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Speaker 3: which case you might just need to find something else.

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Speaker 3: But if right skadata, Yeah, but if you are speaking

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Speaker 3: to a coworker and you find out, oh wow, no,

388
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Speaker 3: they're getting paid significantly more than me for doing pretty

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Speaker 3: much the same job, then it definitely requires a conversation

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Speaker 3: with your manager in which you know, you want to

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Speaker 3: approach it respectfully and you're never going down and banging

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Speaker 3: down someone's store saying you have to pay me more. Right,

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Speaker 3: But there's a way that you can, you know, say,

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Speaker 3: you know, like I, based on some research that I've

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Speaker 3: been doing and some conversations I've had, I've come to

396
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Speaker 3: find out that I am, you know, being paid a

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Speaker 3: lot less than others in a similar role. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I really work hard to bring value to this organization.

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Speaker 3: And I'm appreciative of what you provide, of what I've

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Speaker 3: the opportunities I've had here, but i want to make

401
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Speaker 3: sure that you know I'm being fairly compensated like everybody else. Right,

402
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Speaker 3: there's a way to have the conversation that is respectful

403
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Speaker 3: and from a confidence standpoint, and that isn't just you know,

404
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Speaker 3: patronizing or demanding.

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Speaker 1: So don't just slash your manager's hires when you find

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Speaker 1: out you're getting underpaid. Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, probably, bit of recommend that.

408
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Speaker 1: Cool, just want to make sure for future reference. Okay,

409
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Speaker 1: so what about you in your counseling someone and they're

410
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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what they do next. How often

411
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Speaker 1: is it necessary to go about getting an additional degree

412
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Speaker 1: or certification or something like that in order to get

413
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Speaker 1: paid more? Like, you know, my wife is in grad

414
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Speaker 1: school right now, she's still to become a therapist. Like,

415
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 1: that's kind of a necessity, right. You can't just like

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Speaker 1: call yourself a therapist and start doing the work. You

417
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Speaker 1: can trouble for that to here. So yeah, how often

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Speaker 1: are you steering people in that direction? Well, okay, wait,

419
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Speaker 1: if that's really what you want to do, or if

420
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Speaker 1: you want to get paid at that level, you're going

421
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Speaker 1: to need some more training.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is another really big misconception. And and like

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Speaker 3: you said before, obviously your wife wants to be a

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Speaker 3: therapist one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: We've got to go to school for that.

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Speaker 3: And obviously we know all the degrees like becoming a lawyer,

427
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 3: becoming a doctor, right, Like, there are certain things that

428
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Speaker 3: you know there's no way around that. But I do

429
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Speaker 3: think that there is this immediate uh desire, not even desire,

430
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Speaker 3: but like pressure to get additional schooling and get more

431
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Speaker 3: education and certifications and all these various things that a

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Speaker 3: lot of the time is not necessary. And I always

433
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Speaker 3: tell my clients because they'll come to me and say, say.

434
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Speaker 4: I want to do this.

435
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Speaker 3: Do you think I should get this certificate? Do you

436
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Speaker 3: think I should go get this master's degree? And I'm like, Okay,

437
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,919
Speaker 3: let's pump the brakes. Let's really do the market research

438
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Speaker 3: first to figure out whether that is even necessary.

439
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: Right, what's the going to be. There's a lot of

440
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,239
Speaker 1: people with MBAs and they just assume that that's going

441
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,719
Speaker 1: to meaningfully increase their income, and that's just not nearly that.

442
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: That's not always a.

443
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 4: P exactly I have.

444
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 3: I mean I not to you know, get down on

445
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 3: people who have their MBAs, and I know that they're

446
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 3: very proud of it, but I think that that's a

447
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: degree that in a lot of scenarios. Again, there are

448
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 3: unique situations, but in most scenarios isn't as necessary.

449
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 4: And I think.

450
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 3: MBAs in general are are a means to, you know,

451
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 3: build a network and develop connections that can help you

452
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 3: in that next phase of your career. But I'm also

453
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 3: a big believer that anyone can build a network and

454
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,199
Speaker 3: develop connections on their own, and you don't need to

455
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 3: go to schools for that. Right Again, I'm not downplaying

456
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 3: the significance of it. I know that that some people

457
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 3: love it. And if you love going to school, then

458
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 3: power to you, right, But don't feel like you have

459
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,360
Speaker 3: to do something in order to secure that next job.

460
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: All right, I'm one of my elementary school kids saying

461
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 1: it's time to drop out.

462
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 2: Let's well, like what you said, especially like it can

463
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 2: make sense, especially if you are into learning, Like if

464
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 2: you are if you have always been a good student,

465
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 2: or maybe now that you have something that you are

466
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 2: really excited about, maybe now you will be a great student.

467
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 2: But it's not it shouldn't necessarily be a default assumption.

468
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: I love this more scrappy approach to it. But uh, Eliana, Like,

469
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: let's just say we've you know, we've taken some of

470
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: your tips. You know, we've asked around. We know that

471
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 2: our own job's not paying, so I'm gonna, you know,

472
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 2: put some applications out you land an interview. I have

473
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 2: an interviewed for a job in like over eighteen years

474
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 2: and I feel like a lot has changed, especially in

475
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 2: the past decade, And so what do folks need to

476
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: know in order to prepare if it's just been forever

477
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: since they've actually had a job interview. We were recently

478
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 2: talking to a friend of ours and first up is

479
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: make sure you're on time. He was cutting it close

480
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,360
Speaker 2: and so he parked in front of a fire HYDRANTU. Yeah,

481
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 2: he was willing to get the ticket because he's like,

482
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: I can't be late for the interview. In his case,

483
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 2: he lucked out. But for everybody else out there, aside

484
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: from making sure that you show up early, what tips

485
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 2: do you have for folks?

486
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

487
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 3: I got a lot of interview tips for sure, So

488
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: I would say first impressions count and they're very important.

489
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 4: So obviously showing up on time is part of that.

490
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,239
Speaker 3: But I forget exactly what the statistics statistic is.

491
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 4: But there's a statistic.

492
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: Around like how many hiring managers make a decision within

493
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 3: the first five or so minutes of the interview, meaning

494
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 3: that the way you answer those first few questions is

495
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 3: going to be really really important, right, And what are

496
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 3: the first few questions? Usually it's tell me about yourself,

497
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 3: which is virtually what's your elevator pitch? And people do

498
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: not spend enough time prepping for that question. They just think, oh,

499
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: you know, tell me about yourself. Oh let me dive

500
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: into a five minute tangent all about my career, right exactly,

501
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 3: and you've lost your interview. Your interview is like, oh

502
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 3: my god, I'm bored already. Right, so tell me about yourself.

503
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 3: Why this company and why why this industry?

504
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 4: Right? Like, why this role? Why this company, why this industry?

505
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 3: So those are usually those first four questions, and so

506
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: I'm very much about like, let's make a strong first impression.

507
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 3: Let's hook them from the beginning so that they're engaged

508
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 3: and they're wanting to continue the conversation. So really work

509
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 3: on your elevator pitch. And when you think about an

510
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 3: elevator pitch, you really want to think about how can

511
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: I make this elevator pitch relevant to the role that

512
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 3: I am applying for. Again, Like, people make that mistake

513
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 3: if they think that they need to tell their entire

514
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: career history. But if part of your career history is

515
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: irrelevant to this role, they don't care, right, don't tell

516
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: them that. So you got to really customize your answers

517
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: to the role that you're applying for. So that's a

518
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 3: really big one that I emphasize with people. Another really

519
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 3: important one is to know your gaps.

520
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 4: Right for every.

521
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: Candidate, you generally don't check every single box, and quite frankly,

522
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: you shouldn't check every box. If you check every box,

523
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 3: you're gonna plateau really quickly in this role and you're

524
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 3: going to be bored out of your minds. Right, there

525
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 3: should be room for growth. So you want to know

526
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 3: what are some of those gaps, what are some of

527
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 3: the call it like potential red flags that interviewer has

528
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 3: about you, Because there's always going to be something, and

529
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 3: how can you proactively get ahead of that, right, So

530
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: they're not the ones bringing it up and saying, well,

531
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: you know we noticed this about you, or you mentioned

532
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 3: you don't have this experience, right, and then immediately you're

533
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 3: almost like put on the defensive, and then maybe you stutter,

534
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 3: how do I respond to this? When you know, oh,

535
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: what those gaps might be, you can proactively bring it

536
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 3: up and address it in a really confident way, right

537
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 3: and be able to say, hey, you know, you know

538
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: I wanted to address this because I know this was

539
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 3: something that was mentioned on the job description. And you know,

540
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: while I don't have this experience directly necessarily, here's why

541
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 3: I really truly don't believe that's an issue and why

542
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 3: I know I'll still be able to deliver in this role.

543
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 4: Like just presenting that level of confidence, are going to go, oh, okay,

544
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,719
Speaker 4: that was great. You know now I'm less concerned about it.

545
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: So those are a couple things to think about as

546
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: you're going into prepare for an interview.

547
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: That's so good. Yeah, I love that, super helpful. But yeah,

548
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: like I said, Matt, like I don't know, I kind

549
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: of hope I never have to interview anywhere ever again,

550
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: but a lot of people will, especially with kind of

551
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: our generation Millennials and Gen Z. Yeah, we're going to

552
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 1: have a lot more jobs than our parents did. So

553
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: we don't want to touch on that and get to

554
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: some questions on that. And you actually say there's an

555
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: opportunity cost to staying too long in your job too.

556
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: I want to dig in on that. We'll get to

557
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: some questions on that front right after this break.

558
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: We are back from the break, and we're talking about

559
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: getting paid in a career that you do, in fact

560
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: love with Eleanna Goldstein and Eleana the just generally speaking,

561
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: like the dynamic between employer and employee. It's changed a

562
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: great deal over the past few years. You were touching

563
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: on that and how it's been incredibly dynamic. Yeah, I'll

564
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: just say that, and most of our listeners like they're

565
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: going to have a slew of different jobs, I think,

566
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: far more than people who are thirty years their senior

567
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: and switching jobs. Yeah, that's what I want to talk

568
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 2: about because that can lead to a significant pay raise.

569
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: But how often can someone take that tactic because at

570
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: a certain point, like it seems like it's going to

571
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 2: come back.

572
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: To bite you. I would love to hear you just

573
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: tackle this topic.

574
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know it's there's a healthy balance.

575
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: And I don't recommend staying in a job just so

576
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 3: that you can ensure you've been there long enough and

577
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: it looks good from a resume perspective if that job

578
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 3: is making you miserable, right, Like, don't just I've heard people, Oh,

579
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: I can't leave this job. I've only been there for

580
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 3: fourteen months. I literally am crying myself to sleep every night,

581
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: but I got to make it another ten months.

582
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 4: No, we don't need to do that right.

583
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: But at the same time, we shouldn't just be like

584
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: looking to jump to a new job every one to

585
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: two years.

586
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 4: So we got to kind of figure out what is

587
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 4: that healthy balance.

588
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: I would say, realistically, if you can find a company

589
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 3: that you really love, that you're enjoying the work you're doing,

590
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: and that is that you're pain that's paying you, well,

591
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: that's the ideal, right. I think there's also there's a

592
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: big misconception that with millennials and gen z that all

593
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: we want to do is job hop The truth is

594
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: that most employees would like to stay at a place,

595
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: you know, for a long period of time, assuming they

596
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: have the growth potential and the growth opportunities there. But

597
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: if you're someone who you know is kind of like,

598
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 3: what's the ideal number to you know, or to think.

599
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: About how often I should switch jobs? I would say,

600
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: you know, probably call it.

601
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: Like every three to four years, I think is realistic.

602
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Okay, Lie, you mentioned there's an opportunity cost to staying

603
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: at your job too. I Mett and I talk about

604
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: the opportunity costs of money all the time on the show.

605
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: So what's the opportunity cost to your career if you

606
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: end up staying in the same place too long.

607
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

608
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: So, I mean, obviously there's the obvious one that you

609
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: guys were just mentioning from a you know, from a

610
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: salary perspective that if you aren't being paid or compensated fairly,

611
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: and you're not getting promotions and raises that are you know,

612
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: more than just like the rate of inflation, right, then

613
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: you need to be moving elsewhere, right, and then you

614
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: need to be able to get those pig big pay raises,

615
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: which are often you know, can be like ten or

616
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 3: twenty percent when you switch jobs. But beyond that, there's

617
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: also the skill sets of cline. So when you're staying

618
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: in a role that you're really not enjoying that just

619
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: isn't engaging you, your skills start to plateau, and then

620
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 3: you become a less marketable candidate because you're not consistently

621
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: upskilling and developing you know, new skill sets.

622
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 4: So that's a really big one for sure. What are

623
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 4: some other ones?

624
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: I also think just generally, when you are at a

625
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: job that's making you really miserable, it starts to bleed

626
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 3: into other areas of your life, right.

627
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 4: I think, like we all know the person.

628
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: Who hates their job and just events about it twenty

629
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 3: four to seven, and that has a really big call

630
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 3: it opportunity cost and impact on your mental health. It

631
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 3: has an impact on your relationships and the people around you.

632
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 3: So I think it's you know, it's so important to

633
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: think about salary and being able to boost our salary

634
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: by job hopping, but there are other, you know factors

635
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: as well.

636
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: When we stay in a job too long, that can

637
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 4: be detrimental.

638
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, I'll adjust a couple of things. First.

639
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: Did I hear you say that most folks can expect

640
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: like somewhere between like ten and twenty percent when they

641
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: do move to another company.

642
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: Is that fairly typical?

643
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say it's fairly typical.

644
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: Obviously, I'd say like ten to twenty percent on average,

645
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: with you know, some people, maybe it's less, but I

646
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: mean I've seen people increase their salary by like fifty

647
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: or anymore.

648
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, no, that makes sense.

649
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: And the other thing I was going to say too,

650
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: is you're kind of talking about how millennials in particular,

651
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: and certainly even with gen Z, how you were saying that, like,

652
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: I don't think that they're necessarily only looking to increase

653
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: their pay. But what's interesting it makes me think back

654
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 2: to what you were saying earlier and how oftentimes we

655
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: do revert to our salary because it is something that

656
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: you can look at and put your finger on and

657
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: it's so clearly identifiable, and I like and even I

658
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: think there might be a few instances where it takes

659
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: a few job hops to realize that that isn't going

660
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: to solve all your problems. To realize that, oh man,

661
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: actually it is about the people. Like I don't know,

662
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: the people at that first job I had were awesome,

663
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: and the last few jobs the people have been terrible. Well, boom,

664
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, You've identified that to work in

665
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: a collaborative environment is important to you. It's almost like

666
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: a I don't know, have you seen people kind of

667
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 2: go through this process where they realize what it is

668
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: that's important to them and that it's not just about

669
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: the pay.

670
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh absolutely, And that's you know, in a lot

671
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: of the work that I do, it's helping people make

672
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: those realizations that sometimes it's not just the easy fix

673
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 3: of oh, I'm going to make more money and all

674
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: my problems are going to be solved. Right, it feels

675
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 3: easy to say that, but you have to be you know,

676
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: like a lot of the times when someone's unhappy in

677
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: their career and they assume that they need to do job,

678
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 3: they immediately go to, Okay, you know what, I'm unhappy,

679
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 3: I'm not making enough money.

680
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, I need a new job.

681
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: Let me go update my resume and let me just

682
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: like send it out to one hundred places see if

683
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 3: I get any bites. Maybe they're lucky enough that they

684
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: get some interviews. From those interviews, they get an offer,

685
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: they move on to that next job, and then six

686
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: months in, a year later, they feel exactly the same, right.

687
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: You know, maybe they're making a little bit more money,

688
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: but like you said, they're realizing, oh, it's not just

689
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 3: about the money.

690
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: And a lot of what I try.

691
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 3: To tell people is that prior to making any type

692
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: of change, whether it's a big pivot, whether it's a

693
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: small pivot, whether it's you know, staying in the same

694
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: exact role, but in going to a new company, you

695
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: have to pause and really do that introspection and reflection

696
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 3: and ask yourself, what is it that I need way

697
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: about my role and what is it that I don't enjoy?

698
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: You know what are again like career values, what are

699
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 3: the things that are what are my non negotiables, what

700
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: is important to me? So that you can really figure

701
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: out and gain the clarity on what exactly am I

702
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: looking for and then be able to kind of almost

703
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 3: vet opportunities against that to give yourself more of an

704
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: assurance that, Okay, in this next move, I'm actually going

705
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: to be a lot happier than I am right now

706
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: and get paid better than I am right now.

707
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been obviously a lot talked about about networking

708
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: and how important that is to your ability to kind

709
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: of score the job that you want. And it certainly

710
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: seems like that's how a decent chunk of people end

711
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: up getting the next position that is going to pay

712
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: them more. Is it's the people who they know, maybe

713
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: they've worked with before they moved on to another company whatever,

714
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: So how important is that? And also, I guess I

715
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: would love to hear you touch on resumes, and it

716
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: certainly seems like AI is more involved in kind of

717
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 1: reading resumes these days, Like how do we game our

718
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: resume to get the interview as opposed to kind of

719
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: getting it kicked to the curb.

720
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, So touching on networking.

721
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: You know you said, it seems like a lot of

722
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: folks are doing this networking relationship building is the way

723
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: to get jobs. This is so much of what I

724
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: focus on. I am a very big believer that spending

725
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 3: your time applying for jobs online is quite literally a

726
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 3: huge waste of time, especially in this market that is

727
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: still very competitive, right, So I really like to focus

728
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: on Like one statistic I always tell my clients is

729
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: that in a survey that was done, I don't remember

730
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: if it was by indeed, I forget exactly who conducted it,

731
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: but or this study, this you know projects show that

732
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: referrals account for seven percent of job applications, yet they

733
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 3: drive forty percent of the hires, whereas standard application methods

734
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: like applying for jobs online, job sites things like that

735
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 3: account for seventy five percent of job applications, yet they're

736
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: only driving thirty six percent of the hires. So really

737
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: like the I always say, like, heay, what buckets you

738
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: want to play, and you want to play in the

739
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: bucket that's less saturated, right, less applications are coming from there,

740
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: but it's driving a much higher percentage of hires. So

741
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: it's really really important to focus on that tactic, and

742
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: also to not.

743
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 4: Limit yourself to, Oh, who do I already know?

744
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 3: Right? Oh, this ex coworker of mine ended up at

745
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 3: you know, ABC company, Let me talk to them. You

746
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: can always develop new connections, right. We're lucky to live

747
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: in a world in generation where we have access to

748
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: things like LinkedIn, where there are millions and millions and

749
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: millions of people there who are a message away. Right,

750
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: There's who's to say that you can't, like develop a

751
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: new connection with someone at a company you really want

752
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: to work for or learn more about and have a

753
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: conversation with them, right, So really thinking about that and

754
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: like expanding the network beyond who you're already connected.

755
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: With is a really big one and what I like

756
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: to focus on with people.

757
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: And then in terms of AI, yeah, you know, you know,

758
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: speaking of resumes and everything.

759
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: Like there's a lot of schools of thought that.

760
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: The resume is like soon going to go extinct, that

761
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: it just doesn't play as important of a role. Obviously

762
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: that's not the case right now, Like most places you're

763
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: still going to need to use a resume. But I

764
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: think because of AI and how it's it's virtually leveled

765
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 3: the playing fields right now, anybody can have a good resume.

766
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: Anybody can go on chat GPT and you know, put

767
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 3: in some of their skill sets and what they've done

768
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: and have you know, chat GPT help you spit out

769
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: some great bullets.

770
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 4: I know there are a lot of people who are.

771
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: Like very against that and who think that there's a

772
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 3: huge problem with with AI from that perspective, But because

773
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: it's so easy for anyone to have a strong and

774
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: competitive resume, it makes it.

775
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 4: Even less significant. Right.

776
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 3: So again, and that goes by back to why networking

777
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 3: is so important and developing those relationships and if you

778
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: do want to get your resume in front of a

779
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: hiring manager, the best way to do that is through

780
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 3: a referral who can say, hey, you know, my friend

781
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 3: Matt is wonderful and I think would be a great

782
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: fit from a team perspective, from a culture perspective, he's

783
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: going to send in his resume.

784
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 4: Please be on the lookout.

785
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing how the old school way is still

786
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: is still the modern way of getting a job, especially.

787
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 2: When there's i mean there's just even more noise because

788
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: of AI. I mean, it's just something that the search

789
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 2: engines are are being.

790
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: Faced with but I just high like one thing too, Elli,

791
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: I love this one thing you've said. At one point,

792
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: you said, the best job seekers get the job. It's

793
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: not the people who have like who are the most

794
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: credential necessarily, And I think sometimes people think, oh, it's hey,

795
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: my like my resume speaks for itself, but that's sorry,

796
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: that's not what's going to get the job having the

797
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: best resume. You've got to have kind of all of

798
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: these other things baked in as well or else. Hey,

799
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: that resume, Sorry, it didn't make it in front of

800
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: anybody's eyeballs.

801
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and exactly what you're saying, Like a lot

802
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: of people right now, like we have an incredibly competitive

803
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 3: job market, right there's still like the layoffs of last year,

804
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: especially in industries like tech, Like there's still a lot

805
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: of like very qualified talent out there whose resume is

806
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: just good, if not better than yours. Right, So you

807
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: can't rely on, oh, I hope that hiring manager who

808
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 3: has thousands of applications that they're getting for that one

809
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: role is going to see my resume, right, Like, that's

810
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: we can't rely on that. We got to get more scrappy,

811
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: and we we got to get you know, more aggressive

812
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: in how we approach it.

813
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think so much of that is just

814
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: mindset as well. It's like you proactively going out there

815
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 2: and making something happen, as opposed to taking a more

816
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: passive role, which is sort of what just applying online is,

817
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: submitting your resume. That that's sort of what that feels like,

818
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: just crossing your fingers, see if the Gods, if the

819
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: career God's ordain it.

820
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

821
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: It's one of those things that you feel, oh, well,

822
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: I sent out fifteen job applications today, I did a

823
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: lot of work, right, Like, we feel like that was

824
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 3: really purposeful and the good use of our time. But

825
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 3: if you send out fifteen applications and no one looked

826
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: at them, you just completely wasted your time, right So.

827
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well okay, So well I'm curious.

828
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: So, like we're talking about kind of being aggressive and

829
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: kind of really getting after it, being proactive, I guess

830
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: especially is sort of how I'm trying to segue.

831
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: But we've talked about.

832
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: The steps that take in order to get paid more

833
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: or to find a job with a different company, But like,

834
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: how does someone know that it's time to take the

835
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: reins and to make a big move, right, Like, how

836
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: does someone know that it's time to completely shift gears

837
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: and just look to a completely new career. You talked

838
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: about how you did that, like you pulled like a

839
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: one to eighty, and you said that you couldn't see

840
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: yourself working two or three more years doing the same

841
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: thing you were doing, let alone yea.

842
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 1: Like a whole decade.

843
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: Does it just get do you get to a tipping

844
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: point like this breaking point and to where you're kind

845
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: of fed up with it?

846
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: How else does somebody know whether or not they should

847
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: be switching things up?

848
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I think that you know.

849
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: And I know this sounds like overly simplistic, but I

850
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: think think the first question is when you're feeling unhappy

851
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: in your career is ask yourself, why right is it?

852
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: You know strictly like, you know what I actually like

853
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: like a lot of what I do, But I am

854
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: just being vastly underpaid and maybe just to switch to

855
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: a better.

856
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: Paying company is going to fix things for me?

857
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 3: Or am I remember I talked about areas of engagement

858
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: and areas of disengagement in the beginning. Am I feeling

859
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: and noticing that I am disengaged by you know, ninety

860
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: percent of the work that I'm doing, that these projects,

861
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: these tasks that I'm doing on a daily basis are

862
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: just not for me anymore, and I really just don't

863
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: enjoy it.

864
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: And that that might make you think, oh, this is

865
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: not just just this job, this is actually the career

866
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: that I'm in, and I need to do something different

867
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.

868
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, you're not going to enjoy one hundred

869
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: percent of what you do, but if you're not enjoying

870
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: majority of what you do, that is.

871
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 4: Significant, Right.

872
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: So I like to do kind of what I what

873
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: I call like the self audit and really thinking about, Okay,

874
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: where am I engaged, where am I disengaged? Evaluate those

875
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: things and then see, maybe I'm noticing that in that

876
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: ten percent of the work I do enjoy doing. And

877
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 3: then you want to say, okay, what is that ten

878
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 3: percent and why?

879
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: Right?

880
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 3: What is like what is the data that I can

881
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 3: leverage to execute on this next move? You know, maybe

882
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: I work in like a client of mine was worked

883
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: in graphic design, right, and she wanted to make a

884
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: pivot and she was trying to figure out, Okay, you know,

885
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 3: what do I enjoy what do I not enjoy?

886
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,479
Speaker 4: And she noticed that.

887
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: Every year she was in charge of hiring seasonal employees

888
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: during the summer for these you know, specific projects that

889
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: they had, and she really focused on, you know, recruiting

890
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: and hiring and onboarding. And she really recognized that she

891
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 3: like gravitated towards all these HR functions even though it

892
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: was only like ten percent of her role. But she

893
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 3: realized with that, Okay, you know what, it might make

894
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 3: sense for me to explore and make a pivot into HR.

895
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 3: So just that that exercise area where am I gauge

896
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: where am I disengaged can help in figuring out, Okay,

897
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 3: do I need to just make like a little switch

898
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 3: to something else or do I need to make a

899
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 3: much larger pivot.

900
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: I love that.

901
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: I think those are excellent questions to ask yourself, Eleana.

902
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: We've got a few more for you, specifically, want to

903
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: might kind of find our way talking about working from

904
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 2: homes and so many folks are interested in that. We'll

905
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: get to all that more right after this.

906
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: I we're back through the break. We're still talking with

907
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: Eleanna Goldstein talking about getting paid in the career that

908
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: you love. Hopefully you're able to enjoy your work, get

909
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: paid really well for doing it. Yeah, I mean, that's truly,

910
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: that's the goal. And here, you know what, in the

911
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: greatest country in the history of the world, at the

912
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: United States of America, that is possible. I just want

913
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: to say that, Elliana, I want to talk about work

914
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: from home. Man, there's been some really interesting stats that

915
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: have come out recently that Matt and I have talked

916
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: about in the podcast about people who work from home

917
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: full time and hybrid work seems to kind of be

918
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: the way a whole lot of businesses have found themselves

919
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: structuring the work week for many of their employees. But man,

920
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: it certainly seems like people who work from home full

921
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: time have fewer opportunities for advancements, less opportunity to get

922
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: paid more, and more of a likelihood of getting laid

923
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: off before their counterparts who are in the office full

924
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: time or even part time. So how do you talk

925
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: to people who come to you for counseling? Is right?

926
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, like, how nice is it to be able

927
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: to avoid the commute? Yes, of course, but there's also

928
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: the potential negative trade offs.

929
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

930
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: No, it's definitely something that needs to be thought about

931
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: for sure, And look, I think that a company that

932
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: is still one hundred percent remote, my guess is that this,

933
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it makes sense, Like if you're hundred percent remote,

934
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 3: this isn't as much an issue. So we really are,

935
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: like you were saying before, we're talking about hybrid work

936
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: environments where maybe there's the option to come into the

937
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 3: office and some employees are and then for some employees

938
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: they're choosing to stay from home. So obviously, if you

939
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 3: are at a company where there is the option to

940
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: go in and you are choosing to stay working from home,

941
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: you need to be then be thoughtful about what you're

942
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 3: doing while you're working from home, right, and you need

943
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 3: to make an additional effort to create that internal visibility

944
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: when you're not physically in the office. So you know,

945
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 3: a lot of the reasons why these people are like

946
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 3: if you're in the office, you're going to get promoted

947
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: more quickly, and you're going to be able to have

948
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 3: those growth opportunities, and you're going to be less likely

949
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: to be laid off is because it is easier to

950
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: have that internal visibility. You can go walk into your

951
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: manager's office or you can go to like the CMO

952
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 3: whoever it is, and just like create that connection there,

953
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: and that helps in terms of like having your name

954
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 3: thrown in the ring for a potential promotion.

955
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 4: Oh, Sally, of course, I know, Sally.

956
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 3: We're talking to her I last week, like, yeah, let's

957
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: let's let's give her that raise that she deserves versus Fred,

958
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 3: who I haven't seen in six months.

959
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: Right, Like, it makes sense, It makes perfect sense.

960
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: But I still do believe that you can create that

961
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: internal visibility while you're working from home. And you know,

962
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: I often say, like when you first start a new job,

963
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: those first call it ninety days are going to be

964
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 3: really significant, and one of the first things that you

965
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: want to do is get your hands on an ORG

966
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: chart if you can, and really be able to identify, Okay,

967
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 3: who do I think are the key players in my department?

968
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 3: Who are the key players in this department that I'm

969
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 3: working with? Who are some of like the senior leaders

970
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 3: that I think are going to be important and make

971
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: the time to get in front of those people, even

972
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: if it is virtually right, like getting on Slack or

973
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: like teams whatever it is that you use and being like, hey,

974
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 3: you know, I'm new here. I know that you're working

975
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: on this project or you're on this team, like would

976
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: love to, you know, just set up fifteen minutes to

977
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: have a quick conversation with you and see, you know

978
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 3: where I can add value from the get go as

979
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: I start this new job, right that that can be

980
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: really helpful. So you just have to, like, if you're

981
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: going to be working remotely and make that decision, then

982
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 3: you do need to make an extra effort to do

983
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: those types of things.

984
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like the things that

985
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: happen naturally in the office you have to kind of

986
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: catalyze and make them happen from afar. And I think, like, yeah,

987
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: we talk about the trade offs of that, but guess

988
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: what working from home full time for some people, depending

989
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: on how far they live from their job and so

990
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: plus it opens it opens up the floodgates to other

991
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: potential jobs they might not be able to get. And

992
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, you can apply for jobs across the country

993
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: now thanks to work from home. Yeah, I guess I

994
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: want to ask you about that too, is how broad

995
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: of the net should you cash? Should you be looking

996
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: purely for jobs that are where you are, Should you

997
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: be looking all the way in like Idaho or or Nebraska,

998
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 1: where wherever jobs are across the country in a field

999
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: that you're interested in.

1000
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think if you're one hundred percent

1001
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: committed to working remotely and that's what you want to do, then,

1002
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 3: like you said, like the advantages, you can cast a

1003
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 3: really wide net and you can be in New York

1004
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 3: and look for a job in Idaho.

1005
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 4: Right as long as like the job is relevant.

1006
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 3: Right, you want to focus specifically on jobs that are

1007
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: relevant towards what you want to do. But I say

1008
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: go for it, Like, the more opportunities the better if

1009
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: that is something that you ultimately want to do. But

1010
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 3: just as we're discussing, you have to then be aware

1011
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 3: that with that there is more of a responsibility on

1012
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: your end to create that internal visibility when you are

1013
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: working one hundred percent remotely.

1014
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: I love that.

1015
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: Are there are there any other ways? Do you have

1016
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: any other tips to increase that visibility? I guess I

1017
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: think about one. I remember hearing somebody talk about the

1018
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: meeting before the meeting, and so oftentimes when it comes

1019
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: to zoom, they were talking about, hey, go ahead and

1020
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: jump in there early because the ability for you to

1021
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 2: kind of have some of that banter is the kind

1022
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: of small talk that you would have in the office,

1023
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: so in a very real, tangible way you are able

1024
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: to kind of not imitate that, but you're providing it

1025
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: at least providing space for that. I would love to

1026
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: hear if you have any other tips where folks can

1027
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: somehow achieve that.

1028
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that tip. I think it's very important.

1029
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: I also think, you know, it's all about communication, and

1030
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: it's about letting people know that you are growth minded

1031
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: and that you want to be there for the long term.

1032
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 4: Right. So that's why I say, like, the first ninety.

1033
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: Days are really significant in a new role, and I

1034
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 3: think a lot of the times people start a new

1035
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 3: role and they're just focused on onboarding, let me you know,

1036
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: like get you know, like my feet on the ground,

1037
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: but advocate early on for you know, internal growth opportunities

1038
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 3: and letting your manager know, especially when you're remote, like hey,

1039
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about it. This is a type of

1040
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 3: work that I really enjoy. This is where I think

1041
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 3: I can add the most value. This is where you know,

1042
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 3: I'd love to see myself grow in the next two

1043
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: to three years in the role. Just show just talking

1044
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 3: about that and letting them know that you you know

1045
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: you are thinking long term, is gonna like create a

1046
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 3: certain connotation in their mind in terms of how they

1047
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 3: see you.

1048
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 4: Right, don't just like get the new.

1049
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: Job and then be like, Okay, I'm remote, let me

1050
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: slink off and like do as little as I possibly can. Right,

1051
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: You got to make that extra effort and you have

1052
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: to have it be known what it is that you

1053
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 3: want to achieve within that role. I think, like another

1054
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 3: big call. I know I've said misconception a hundred times

1055
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: on this episode, but a lot of the times we

1056
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: think that our work will speak for itself.

1057
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 4: Right.

1058
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: You know, I'm in a role. I'm doing what's expected

1059
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 3: of me. I'm hitting my goals. That should be enough

1060
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: to get the promotions I want. That should be enough

1061
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: to get the raises that I want and make more money.

1062
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: But again, unfortunately it just doesn't work that way, and

1063
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 3: you have to tell people what it is that you want.

1064
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Right.

1065
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 3: You can't just let the work speak for itself. If

1066
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: you're doing everything necessary, but you're finding like, oh, I'm

1067
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: not getting the rays that I thought I was going

1068
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 3: to get. That means you probably have to have a

1069
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 3: conversation and you know, share with your manager.

1070
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 4: Hey, this is what I would like.

1071
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: You know, you have to participate in that self advocacy

1072
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: in order.

1073
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 4: To grow in your career.

1074
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: And that's why kind of similar to the notion of

1075
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: you know, it's not always the most qualified candidate, it's

1076
00:46:59,320 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 3: the best job.

1077
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 4: See, it's the same thing at work.

1078
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 3: You know, we always it's like Joe Schmoe is always

1079
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 3: getting promoted, and you're like, Joe Schmo's.

1080
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 4: Not that good at his job? Why is he always

1081
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 4: getting promoted? Right?

1082
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: But he's probably always Janis, Yeah, exactly, it's always Janis.

1083
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 3: It's probably because Janie is really good at self advocating

1084
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: and she's also really good at creating that internal visibility.

1085
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 4: Right.

1086
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: So there are a lot of you know, call it

1087
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: like playing the game, but there are a lot of

1088
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 3: other factors we have to think about when it comes

1089
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: to being able to to grow, you know, exponentially more

1090
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: quickly in our career.

1091
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: It makes me think of pro wrestlers. You know, they're

1092
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: so good at promoting themselves there. It's like that they're

1093
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: so flashy and it's always like can you smell with

1094
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: the rocket is cooking? And they're always you know, it's

1095
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: all about one hundred percent about the flash. It's about

1096
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: the individual, and yeah, you probably don't want to be

1097
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: quite that brash in your self promotion, but no, I

1098
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: see the important.

1099
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 2: It's in a good distinction though, because yeah, you need

1100
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 2: to not only do the work that your job requires,

1101
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: but you also need to work on your job, like the,

1102
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: like the It's so easy to lose sight of the

1103
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: fact that, like you said that, we have to advocate

1104
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: for ourselves. But Eleianna, this has just been an awesome conversation.

1105
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: I think our listeners certainly have learned a lot, but

1106
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: where can they go if they're wanting to learn more.

1107
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: I think you've got a lot to offer. Tell folks

1108
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: where it is that they should find you.

1109
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1110
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 3: Absolutely. You can always connect with me on Instagram. That's

1111
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 3: kind of where I spend a lot of my time

1112
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 3: and it's just my name, Eleana Underscore Goldsteine. Same thing

1113
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 3: like across all social media social media channels, you know, Instagram, LinkedIn,

1114
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: Always shoot me a message, shoot me a DM and

1115
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 3: I have a ton of resources to help people, you know,

1116
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: grow in their careers, So don't hesitate to reach out.

1117
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: That's where Eleiana works, It's where she buys her face

1118
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: cream spends a lot of time on that Instagram.

1119
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 4: Now you see why I have a price.

1120
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: Well, just go on to do some work oopstak exactly, Eleianna,

1121
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. We really

1122
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

1123
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 4: Of course, thank you so much for having me all.

1124
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: Right, man, Eleiana, she was not messing around, and it

1125
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,959
Speaker 2: makes me want to not mess around right now. So, Joel,

1126
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: what was your big takeaway for uh from this conversation

1127
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: from our epis, I.

1128
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: Prefer to goof off for a few seconds at last. Man. No, yeah,

1129
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: there's jam packed so much good information there. Yeah, if

1130
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: you care about making more money and enjoying your work more,

1131
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: I think she's a great person. You enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah,

1132
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway was when she said relationship

1133
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: building is the way. It was like all caps the

1134
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think she's right. I mean

1135
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: I think, of course you heard that you being a

1136
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: super relational person. Yes, yeah, you're like, oh, oh, I

1137
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: will write I gravitate towards that. But I do do

1138
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: think it's true though. I think it's true when it

1139
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: comes to when it comes to job opportunities, when it

1140
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: comes to a career pivot, whatever, it's it's who you know,

1141
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: and it's those close relationships that you develop over time,

1142
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: and it's maintaining those we talk about that, you know,

1143
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: networking it's a really, really really crucial part of you

1144
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: being able to continue on in your career in the

1145
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: way you want to. Absolutely, and it's not something that happens.

1146
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: It kind of sort of happens around the water cooler,

1147
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: but that's not enough. You have to be really intentional

1148
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: about it.

1149
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 2: And one, especially given the fact that so many folks

1150
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: are working from home, so there are other ways that

1151
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: you've got to be smart about it.

1152
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: And then you got to like triple down on it

1153
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: if you work from home, right.

1154
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love how she was just talking about

1155
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: make yourself visible. That's not gonna be my big takeaway,

1156
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 2: but I feel like that is a big part of

1157
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 2: that networking if you are working from home, if you

1158
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 2: aren't there in person, where some of these more natural

1159
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: or more default modes of getting to know your employees

1160
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: or your employers or your.

1161
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: Supervisors and bosses or co workers whatever. I mean. Yeah,

1162
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,439
Speaker 1: And I think it's a really good idea to put

1163
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: it as a calendar reminder, like every Monday morning or

1164
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: Thursday morning or whatever works best for you, spend five

1165
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: or ten minutes like email or text to people, or

1166
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: make a quick phone call and say, hey, Sheila, how

1167
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 1: you doing, like whatever. I think those personal touch points

1168
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: can just have this massive impact over time long way.

1169
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: That's what our friend Jordan Harbinger calls digging the well

1170
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: before you're thirsty, And I think it's just such a

1171
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: good way to put it, and I think she's right.

1172
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: Relation ship building is the way it's key.

1173
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: All right, So my big takeaway I love I'm not

1174
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: going to go into this, but I love how she

1175
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 2: was just talking about the values, like thinking through the

1176
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: values that you are looking for, Oh yeah, when it

1177
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 2: comes to your work. But that being said, I'm going

1178
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: to go from that, which feels a little more ethereal

1179
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: to something super practical. And I feel like her tips.

1180
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: But when it came to interviewing, the interviewing process, we're

1181
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: so good and maybe this is again revealing the fact

1182
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 2: that I haven't interviewed in so long, But they're going.

1183
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: To ask you to tell us about yourself.

1184
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: And so that's like she said, an elevator pitch, we

1185
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: need to have that dialed in.

1186
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: And then also in front of the mirror, like yeah,

1187
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: in front of your friend or partner. Yeah.

1188
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 2: And she also talked about just the first impressions, other

1189
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: early interview questions, why are you good fit for this role?

1190
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: Why are you a good fit for this company? But

1191
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: then also for the industry as a whole, and to

1192
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: just sort of craft your message. Obviously you're not changing

1193
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 2: who you are, but man, how can you demonstrate and

1194
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: show your employer or whoever it is that's hiring you

1195
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: that you are going to be a great fit for

1196
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: this company. These need to be things that you think

1197
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: about ahead of time, and that really yeah, it really

1198
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: stood up to.

1199
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: Me, you know what. So Emily is currently interviewing for

1200
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: internship positions and going on the website of the potential

1201
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: employer and looking look at the about us page, look

1202
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: at the mission, look at the values, so that you

1203
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: looking at the language that they use, spit some of

1204
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: those things back out. Well, you guys say on your site,

1205
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: or I've heard other folks to work here say that

1206
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: this is a really important part of the mission of

1207
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: this organization. Guess what I'm down with. Let me tell

1208
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: you why I love that aproach. Yes, and it just

1209
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: takes so good, an extra few minutes worth of research

1210
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: that most people don't do. That it's going to help

1211
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: you stand out and they're gonna be like, oh, you're

1212
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: speaking our language, You're our kind of person. So yeah,

1213
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that good advice. Let's get

1214
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: back to the beer we had on this episode. This

1215
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: one's called Boat Drinks, Volume seven, is a highly tropical

1216
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: sour beer. What are your thoughts on this one? I'll

1217
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: just say that this is the kind of beer that

1218
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: gets me excited for some warmer weather. Dude.

1219
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: This tastes like a drink that you should be, like

1220
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 2: a rum based cocktail that you're enjoying pool side. It's

1221
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 2: got those pineapple notes.

1222
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: It's called pine drinks for a reason.

1223
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, pineapple, banana rum. These are all the non beer

1224
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: flavor notes that I'm pulling out of this beer. But yeah,

1225
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: it was a smoothie style sour. But your thoughts, no,

1226
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: I love.

1227
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: You dig it so good, so so good, And honestly,

1228
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: it's a style that I feel like you don't have

1229
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: a lot of, or if you do have something that's

1230
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: kind of in this vein, it's not pulled off nearly

1231
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: this well. So this is really really good, highly delicious.

1232
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes too, they get they can get overly thick to

1233
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: where it feels like you're eating or drinking. Well, maybe

1234
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: I'll go back and say, yes, eating one of those

1235
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: like odd Wallah odd wall But you know, like some

1236
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: of the smoothies that are just so thick and it

1237
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: takes you feel like a bunch of fruit purely beat

1238
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 2: it out of the bottom of the bottle if you're

1239
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: you're pouring it out, but that's not the case. It

1240
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: packs all that flavor without it weighing heavy in your

1241
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: mouth and made it a beer that I certainly enjoyed,

1242
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: another great one from Piedmont Brewery down there.

1243
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: And Macon for sure agreed. All right, that's going to

1244
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: do it for this episode. And actually Eleanna has a

1245
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: course that she offers. It's two hundred and ninety five dollars,

1246
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: but there's one hundred dollars off right now if you

1247
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 1: use a how to Money code. Well, we'll put all

1248
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: that information up in the show notes for this episode

1249
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: up at how to money dot com. But Matt, that's

1250
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 1: gonna do it until next time. Best Friends Out, Best

1251
00:53:49,880 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: Friends Out. You don't know who spoke