1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: In America. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 2: We don't cancel ideas, we put them to the test. 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 3: Ice involved shooting out of Minneapolis. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: So Lefsi's the world one way, the right season another. 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 4: It was an active domestic terrorism. 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: And when those views collide, things Get Real. From Real 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 2: America's Voice and Real Clear Politics comes a show that 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: pushes by us aside in the search for truth. 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: Two sides, one stage, one question at the center of 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: it all, where is the truth? This is Get Real 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: with your host David de. 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: Rochers, and it starts right now. 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 5: Welcome to the premiere episode of Get Real. I'm David 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 5: de Roser, the publisher of the Real Clear Media Group. 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 5: Welcome and thank you for joining us. Our goal for 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 5: the show is to Get Real, a show that reflects 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 5: the bipolarity of the American mind. Real Clearest method is 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 5: viewpoint diversity, and viewpoint diversity is when you're exposed to 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 5: both sides right. And if you come to our site, 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 5: that's what you'll see. You see two rival authorities from 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 5: different different outlets saying the opposite thing about the same reality. 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 5: And we think that it's important to actually think outside 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 5: once tribe, to read what other people are not reading 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 5: and what I'd like to do that, you know, in 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 5: this show is to kind of show you what that 26 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 5: looks like on a screen. 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: You know. 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 5: First, let's move into the week that was right, you know, 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 5: I'm looking at what was going on in Minnesota. It 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 5: had a sense that we were fast approaching a Fort 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 5: Sumpter moment. Was the match strike that started the Civil War? 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 5: Not a good two hundred and fiftieth birthday present. You know. 33 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 5: It started with the death of Daniel Petty, which was 34 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 5: bad TV, you know, a much different sport from good 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 5: the good shooting, which was. 36 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: Not good either. 37 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 5: We had a side that neither side would blink that 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 5: that the protesters were pushing Stephen Miller to ask the 39 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 5: Boss for the nuclear option, and that they would dust 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 5: off the insurrection. 41 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: App That didn't happen, thank god. 42 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 5: Instead, Tom Holman shows up, talking and bringing calm. We 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 5: start with my two favorite lawyers today, each known in 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 5: their own lane for pushing the limits, famed attorney Alan 45 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 5: Dershowitz and former deputy Assistant Attorney John You. John is 46 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 5: a leading expert in the limits and possibility of state power. 47 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 5: He's famous, or better infamous, for being the author of 48 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 5: the Bush Administration's enhanced Interrogation memo, and he has recently 49 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 5: argued that the Supreme Court should shut down Trump's expansive 50 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 5: use of targers. 51 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 3: Welcome both of you. 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 6: Thanks for Pavid. 53 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: Alan. 54 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 5: I'm kind of interested in your read on what's happening 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 5: in Minnesota. You know, from my perspective, you know, I 56 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 5: grew up in the age of Dershwitz, right when I 57 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 5: would you know, when I came of age, I was 58 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 5: reading you to understand what the First Amendment was. And 59 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 5: you've been a constant through time, unlike the ASLU. But 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: it's like I'd be very interested in your read of Really, 61 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 5: I think we've been seeing a new rules for radicals, 62 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 5: a new playbook, a two point zero of what's happening 63 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 5: and what can happen. And the real question that I'd 64 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 5: like to put in front of you to start up 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 5: this conversation is how much of what we're seeing, you know, 66 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 5: you know, by protesters really doesn't fit within the parameters 67 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 5: of the free speech in any way. 68 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 7: Well, let me start by in a way just adopting 69 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 7: what your show is all about. 70 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 6: Challenge. I want to challenge you. 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 7: I don't think that you correctly stated the issue when 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 7: you stated that there are two sides to every issue. 73 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 6: That's been the problem. There have been two. 74 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 7: Sides, two issues that require nuance and calibration, and multiple sides. 75 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 7: For example, in Minnesota, the radicals on one side were 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,279 Speaker 7: calling it murder, murder, both. 77 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 6: Of the shootings murder. 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 7: On the other side, you know, they were saying, no, 79 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 7: these are terrorists who were appropriately shot, and there was 80 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 7: almost no room in either of the shootings for a 81 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 7: calibrated middle ground that would say, look, the shooting in 82 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 7: retrospect were unjustified, But you have to put yourself in 83 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 7: the position of the person who was standing in front 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 7: of the car, who had previously been run over by 85 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 7: some protester and who honestly, if mistakenly, believed that he 86 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 7: would once again be run over. That doesn't look like murder, 87 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 7: but it may look like negligence. Let's think hard about 88 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 7: these cases in terms of nuanced, third, fourth, and fifth 89 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 7: level approaches, rather than watching CNN and Fox as if 90 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 7: you're watching two different universes in two different worlds. So 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 7: my challenge is to the concept of bipolarity that there 92 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 7: are two sides to issues. I think when it comes 93 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 7: to issues of the kind that we're seeing in Minneapolis. 94 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 7: The truth lies somewhere in between the two sides and 95 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 7: requires a nuanced approach. Now, the law isn't usually so 96 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 7: good at creating a nuance. It too creates sometimes categories 97 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 7: that don't reflect human nature. But I think the people 98 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 7: on this show, particularly our current guests, who I admire enormously, 99 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 7: understands nuance and his views, for example on torture, which 100 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 7: were somewhat different from my own views, both reflected real 101 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 7: nuance rather than the extreme positions that were being advocated 102 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 7: on both sides. 103 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 5: John, I mean, let me ask Alan a question again. So, 104 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 5: how would you describe that common ground, that truth that 105 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 5: we should we should start our conversation with. 106 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 6: Well, first of. 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 7: All, we have to acknowledge that there are many kinds 108 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 7: of truths. There are the truths that are established in 109 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 7: courts of law, and the adversary system is not designed 110 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 7: to produce truth. If it were designed to produce truth, 111 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 7: it wouldn't have exclusionary rules, it wouldn't have privileges, it 112 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 7: wouldn't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt or approved by 113 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 7: clear convincing evidence. It would adopt the scientific method. So 114 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 7: we have legal truth on the one hand, then we 115 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 7: have media truth that you know, if it leads, it leads, 116 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 7: and ultimately we have historic truth. And historic truth sometimes 117 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 7: requires us to step back a little bit look in contexts, 118 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 7: and the historians can write a kind of nuanced approach 119 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 7: to what is going on in Minnesota and what is 120 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 7: going on in other parts of the country as well, 121 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 7: seeing rights and wrongs on both sides. That's what I 122 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 7: try to specialize in that middle ground of nuanced truth. 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 5: But when you when you look at what's happening here, 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 5: the truth that I'd like to get to the heart 125 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 5: of is, you know, what is the what is free speech? 126 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 5: And how do you how does one exercise that responsibly? 127 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 5: The show protest and and I've just been amazed where 128 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 5: I'm just seeing a range of activities that you know, 129 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 5: it's not just you see legal observers that aren't observing, 130 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 5: they're participating. So you see canavan and driving around and 131 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 5: getting in the way of police activity. 132 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 7: But I agree and remember too that the Supreme Court 133 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 7: is correctly said that there's a strong presumption in favor 134 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 7: of free speech even when it's wrong, so that we 135 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 7: are the only country on the face of the earth 136 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 7: that permiss free speech that hedvocates violence, that encourage violence 137 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 7: as long as it doesn't incite immediate violence. So we 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 7: clearly err on the side of permitting violence instead in 139 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 7: order not to censor and prohibit speech. And so I 140 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 7: don't want to compromise that. I do think that there 141 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 7: are areas, and I'm deeply involved in one of them 142 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 7: New York Times versus Sullivan, and the extreme license that 143 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 7: the media today has. 144 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 6: To deliberately willfully lie about public figures. 145 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 7: We can put that aside for the moment, but in 146 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 7: areas like what's going on in Minneapolis, we ought to 147 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 7: air clearly. 148 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 6: On the side of permitting protest free speech. 149 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 7: Regarding Don Levin, even though he may be partly an 150 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 7: agitator and partly a journalist, err on the side of 151 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 7: regarding him as a journalist so he can report the truth. 152 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 6: So for me, the presumption is always in favor of free. 153 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 7: Speech, against convicting people based on evidence that leaves reasonable 154 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 7: doubts about the intent or the facts of the case. 155 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 5: John, what advice would you give to Minnesota Waltz and 156 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 5: Fry as well as the Holman on how they can 157 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 5: kind of, you know, bring common peace and play within 158 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 5: in the rules of the game, not only the First Amendment, 159 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 5: but this idea that it seems like we're just heading 160 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 5: towards a match strike where you know, the Insurrection Act 161 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 5: could be applied. 162 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 4: David, First, thanks for inviting me, and it's really great 163 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 4: to be on this podcast with Alan. Like you, I 164 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 4: grew up in the age of Dershowitz, but the age 165 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 4: of Dershowitz is not over. Clearly, we're still living in 166 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 4: the age of Dershwitz, and it's great that we can 167 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 4: have this conversation to figure out with him and the 168 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: rest of us. He can lead us and think about 169 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 4: how we bounce two different competing priorities. And I think 170 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 4: of it very much the way Alan does. First thing, 171 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 4: to answer your question, what I would say to both 172 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: the Minnesota officials and federal officials is that, as Alan described, 173 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 4: we are balancing to competing I think legal impulses and 174 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: what you saw with the shootings, what you saw with 175 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 4: the arrests, is how does our society reach the balance? 176 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 4: On one side is I think everyone would agree the 177 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 4: federal government has the legitimate authority to enforce federal law, 178 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: the immigration laws or federal law. They've been passed by Congress, 179 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 4: the courts have said their constitutional the federal government, under 180 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 4: the Constitution has the right under the summer premacy clause 181 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 4: to carry them out. Arguments that you hear on by 182 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 4: opponents that in some way state officials or private people 183 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 4: are allowed to impede the execution of federal law. I'm 184 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 4: sorry those echo the arguments as Southern governors made to 185 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 4: defense segregation after Brown versus Board of Education. But on 186 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: the other side, as Alan emphasized, people have a right 187 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 4: to protest, people have a free speech right to make 188 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 4: known their disagreement with federal policies. That's how we decide 189 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 4: what we believe, and that's how we make decisions ultimately 190 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 4: about elections. And so what you see in these confrontations 191 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 4: is people who are exercising the First Amendment rights up 192 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 4: to a point. But when they go beyond that to 193 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: where they're obstructing federal officials, then they've stepped over the line. 194 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 4: And all these cases we've seen about these shootings, it's 195 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 4: a hard question where is that line in terms of 196 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 4: what these people did. Were the officers acting reasonably under 197 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 4: all the circumstances as it was known to them at 198 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 4: that time, usually this is such a hard question we 199 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 4: ask juries to decide. This is this is where Alan 200 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 4: is expert. We go to criminal trials and we ask 201 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 4: a jury of people from the community to decide whether, 202 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 4: ultimately that use of force was appropriate and whether it 203 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 4: was reasonable. Because it is such a hard decision. It's 204 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 4: easy to say, oh, I can see a video here, 205 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 4: I can see a video there on cable TV and 206 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 4: immediately make up your mind. But in a real trial, 207 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 4: you will have all the forensic evidence of all the 208 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: videos from all the angles, and I bet it is 209 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 4: a much harder and as Alan said, much more nuanced 210 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 4: problem than what you're going to see from people on 211 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 4: both sides who are immediately out there in front of 212 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 4: the cameras and microphones rendering judgment in the first thirty 213 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 4: minutes after the shootings happened. 214 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 6: To what I agree about. 215 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 7: Because John and I are both academics, that you don't 216 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 7: get this kind of nuanced. 217 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 6: Debate today in academia. 218 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 7: Academics are among the worst people who immediately jump to 219 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 7: hard left conclusions that'support their narrative and their ideology before 220 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 7: looking at the evidence. It's so disappointing to see professors 221 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 7: all over the country use words like murder in order 222 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 7: to describe the shootings. 223 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 6: In those cases they know better. 224 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 7: And fortunately there are a few people at American universities. 225 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 7: John is one of them. They're one or two at Yale. 226 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 7: I don't think there are one or two at Harvard 227 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 7: right now, but few academics who are prepared to go 228 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 7: against the kind of academic consensus. 229 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 6: Jeb Rubinfeld at Yale as one, but you can count them. 230 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 6: You look at Yale for example. 231 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 7: Today they did a study and they found not a 232 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 7: single professor in all of Yale University where I went, 233 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 7: not a single professor contributed money to Republicans. The vast 234 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 7: majority of them contributed money to Democrats. 235 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 6: And I don't care you contribute money to But when you. 236 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 7: Introduce that into the classroom, as I think so many 237 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 7: professors do, we see a complete skewing of academic freedom 238 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 7: in favor of one side and against the other. Recently, 239 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 7: for example, the rector at the University of Ghent in 240 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 7: Europe said that nobody who denies that Israel commits genocide 241 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 7: is entitled to academic freedom. You lose your academic freedom 242 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 7: if you take that position, and we would see the 243 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 7: same playing with these shootings. I think if a professor 244 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 7: dared to get up and give a lecture and say, look, 245 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 7: I've looked at all the evidence and there is no 246 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 7: real proof of murder, but maybe some reasonable disagreement about 247 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 7: whether the action of a current I think that professor 248 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 7: would have protests today. 249 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 6: And most of the professors don't want protests. 250 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 7: They don't want to be in the position that John 251 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,239 Speaker 7: and I are in, having so many of our colleagues 252 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 7: criticize us as kind of stooges of the right. 253 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 5: Well, thanks Am, we'll get it, and thanks John. If 254 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 5: you just stand by, we'll get back. We're just going 255 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 5: to do some commercials. 256 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more. 257 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Get Real, brought to you by Real 258 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: Clear Politics in Reel America's Voice. 259 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 5: Welcome back to Get Real on Real America's Voice. I'm 260 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 5: David deocha publisher of the Real Clear Media Group. 261 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: We're here to cut through the noise and get to 262 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: the news. 263 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 5: I'm joined by two of America's most esteemed attorneys, Alan 264 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 5: Dershwitz and John You. 265 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: Welcome back. If we could return. 266 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 5: To where we ended off, I'd like to like you 267 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 5: mentioned Don Lemon, and and you know Don Lemon is 268 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 5: now being charged with I believe it's the Face Act, right, 269 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 5: you know it. I'm surprised he's being charged because he 270 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 5: is a reporter. But might you tell us a little 271 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 5: bit Alan about the Face Act and how this applies 272 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 5: and whether or not you think it's a good piece 273 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 5: of legislation. 274 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 6: I have problems with it. I have problems with it's 275 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 6: applying to Don Levin. 276 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 7: Look, I know Don, I was on his show many 277 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 7: times before I was banned by CNN and before he 278 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 7: was thrown off CNN, So we both have that in common. 279 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 6: I think you resolved oubts in favor of journalists. 280 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 7: Now, look, it's abused in Gaza, for example, it's claimed 281 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 7: that many journalists have been killed by Israel. 282 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, they were Hamas operatives. 283 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,239 Speaker 7: Who were wearing journalist jackets to give them protection as journalists. 284 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 6: But some of them were carrying guns. Others were providing 285 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 6: information of Hamas. 286 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 7: We don't know what Don status was, and maybe it 287 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 7: was a mixed Maybe he had sympathetic views toward the 288 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 7: protesters and. 289 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 6: He went in there to give them the benefit of 290 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 6: his reporting. 291 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 7: That's that doesn't disqualify him from being a journalist. So 292 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 7: in the end, I don't think this prosecution of Don 293 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 7: Lemon is going to succeed unless there are facts that 294 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 7: I'm really unaware of. 295 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 3: Has he has he called you are no? 296 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 6: No. He has a very good lawyer. 297 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 7: He has Abby Lowell, who's been extraordinarily decibel and I've 298 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 7: worked with Abby on a number of cases over the years. 299 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 6: And Abby's the right lawyer for this because he has good. 300 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 7: Connections within the Justice Department, and he's a He's a 301 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 7: brilliant lawyer. 302 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 6: But I really interested in John's views on this because. 303 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 7: He is such an expert on these issues and on 304 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 7: freedom of speech. 305 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 6: So I'm curious whether. 306 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 7: He thinks Don Lemon is a journalist or or is 307 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 7: an agitator or both. 308 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 4: Please don't have of first, I don't want to ever 309 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 4: say I know more about the First Amendment than Alan. 310 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 4: I mean, Alan not only knows a lot about the 311 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 4: First Amendment, but he's been there litigating the real cases 312 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 4: I get up to the Supreme Court, you know, I 313 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 4: just hope if I ever appear in the Supreme Court courtroom, 314 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 4: I'm just not a criminal defendant there. Alan's a real 315 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 4: lawyer arguing there, yeah, so this is again it's just 316 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 4: like what Al talked about in the first segment. Here, 317 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 4: again we have a conflict between different priorities, and we 318 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 4: need to really think with a lot of nuance and 319 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 4: care about how to resolve it. On the one hand, 320 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 4: you do have the right of people in churches to 321 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 4: exercise their freedom of religion and the Face Act. There's 322 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 4: still a lot of constitutional arguments about whether the Face 323 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 4: Act actually falls properly within the First Amendment. Where does 324 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 4: the Congress, for example, get the power to pass something 325 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 4: like the Face Act? But in general, right, these are 326 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 4: people who want to hold a religious exercise and you 327 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 4: can't allow people just want to come in and disrupt 328 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 4: the exercise. That's a violation of their freedom of religion. 329 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 4: On the other hand, as Alan says here, you have 330 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 4: an individual who is exercising the right of freedom of press. Now, yeah, 331 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 4: you could maybe in some kind of proceeding, you could 332 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 4: dig in deeper into whether Don Lemon should be covered 333 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 4: by the First Amendment. Is he really legitimately there as 334 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 4: a member of the press. It seemed to me he was. 335 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 4: It seemed to me he was following along. It doesn't 336 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 4: seem to me from what I've seen, that he was 337 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 4: co conspiring to actually violate the laws. But then I 338 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 4: also want to point out I may recall us to 339 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 4: the I think the outstanding moments of the civil rights movement. 340 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: If people. 341 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 4: Like Don Lemon or people who are with him think 342 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 4: that what's going on in that church is unjust, if 343 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 4: they want to, I think, recall the image of doctor 344 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 4: Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement. You know, 345 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 4: doctor Martin Luther King and the civil rights leaders. They 346 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 4: were arrested to show that they that the laws were unjust. 347 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: But they didn't suddenly say okay, arrest me and then 348 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 4: let me out because I'm engaging in protected exercise which 349 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 4: even allows me to disrupt religion religious worship. Instead, they 350 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 4: wanted to be arrested and go to prison under the 351 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 4: law to just show that the law itself was unjust, 352 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: their being a bad and unjust manner. So it might 353 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 4: be the case that really, if Don Lemon and his 354 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 4: friends think that the churches were in some way being 355 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 4: used I guess as I guess argument would be it's 356 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 4: being used as some kind of cover for unjust activity, 357 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 4: they should actually want to go to jail and one 358 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 4: thing that Alan mentioned it caused me to think about 359 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 4: this in a way. You know, I've been in New 360 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 4: York City and I've seen these terrible protests by people 361 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: for Hamas outside of synagogues. I mean, when I saw 362 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 4: them just walking on the street, I was astounded. I 363 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 4: couldn't believe it. I would not want the law to 364 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 4: allow AMASS supporters to be able to break into a 365 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 4: synagogue and disrupt warship services. I think the laws should 366 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 4: prevent that from happening. I don't think people's right to 367 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 4: exercise and free speech should give them the right to 368 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 4: actually disrupt other people's peaceful exercise of the freedom of religion. 369 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 6: I agree completely. 370 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 7: By the way, it was my synagogue, the synagogue I 371 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 7: go to called Park East, with a great rabbi with 372 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 7: a great history of commitment to civil rights and free speech, 373 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 7: that Hamas supporters were protesting and the mayor of New 374 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 7: York waited too long to condemn it. 375 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 6: I agree with you when you have. 376 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 7: A clash, and that clash was evident in New York. 377 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 6: And by the way, I love your analogy John to 378 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 6: what happened in the South. 379 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 7: I was in the South in the nineteen early nineteen sixties. 380 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 7: I was there as part of the movement against desegregation. 381 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 6: That's how I am. 382 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 7: And I do remember, of course, Governor Wallace and other 383 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 7: governors claiming, quoting Calhoun and even quoting some of Jefferson's 384 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 7: writings saying, the states have the right to determine whether 385 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 7: we're going to desegregate the schools. And how dare President Eisenhower, 386 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 7: President Kennedy, President Johnson send federal troops down to enforce 387 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 7: federal law. And you know, it's hard for a lot 388 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 7: of people to analogize that to what's going on. But 389 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 7: the Constitution doesn't distinguish between protests we agree with and 390 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 7: protests we disagree with. So we have to think of 391 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 7: it as if it were again Southern efforts to prevent desegregation, 392 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 7: which has the same constitutional standing as would occur when 393 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 7: we have now state efforts to try to prevent the 394 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 7: enforcement of legitimate immigration laws. 395 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 6: That are being enforced. Perhaps some people think too vigorously 396 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 6: and to unselectively again illegal illegally people who are here 397 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 6: illegally now. 398 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 7: So looking at analogies like that, which John looked at 399 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 7: very very intelligently, is I think very helpful in analyzing 400 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 7: the constitutional issues. 401 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 3: Well, thank you Alan, Thank you John. 402 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 5: I would want to announce for the viewers that Alan 403 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 5: is receiving a prize from Real Clear Politics called our 404 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 5: Samastap Prize on February eleventh, and it's going to be 405 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 5: in Breakers in the Palm Beach. I hope if you're 406 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 5: down this way that you can you can come and 407 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 5: John I'll send you a comp ticket. 408 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: You're welcome to come as well. 409 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 4: Pleasure the congratulations Alan, It's well deserved. I mean, Alane, 410 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: I've agreed, we disagreed over the decades, but I really 411 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 4: admire him as a really as a stable. 412 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 5: I think we found the truth between the two of you, 413 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 5: that there was a difference between you of degree and 414 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 5: not kind. 415 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 3: And that's that's what. 416 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 5: We're trying to get to with the show. 417 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 7: And thank youration for John you he's been a phenomenal 418 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 7: spokesman for decency and truth and balance. Want to something 419 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 7: interesting now, I'm getting the award at the Breakers Hotel. 420 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 6: The Breakers Hotel until the nineteen sixties didn't allow jews. 421 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 4: I was I was about to say so now accepting 422 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 4: an award very symbolic. 423 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 3: I couldn't have even gone to as a guest I 424 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: was there recently. 425 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 5: You're well represented. The tribe is doing well. Thank you 426 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 5: very much. I appreciate both of you. Thank you coming 427 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 5: up our panel ways and next as Get Real continues, 428 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 5: right back, don't go anywhere. 429 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more. Welcome back to Get Real, brought. 430 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 2: To you by Real Clear Politics and Reel America's Voice. 431 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 8: I said in March at the right it didn't stop 432 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 8: for bloodshed and the passa. I wish I wasn't right. 433 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 8: I don't want to see anybody die, not officers, not 434 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 8: members of the community. And now the targets of our 435 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 8: operations for the people out there don't like what I 436 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 8: was doing. If you want certain laws reformed, and take 437 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 8: it up with Congress again, ICE is making this up there, 438 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 8: enforcing laws and acted by Congress and signed by President. 439 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 8: The same laws have been on the books for the 440 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 8: last six presidents I worked for. I started with the 441 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 8: President Reagan and ending with President Trump. Every administration we 442 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 8: enforced the same laws. 443 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: Welcome back. 444 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 5: Holman to the rescue. For weeks home has seemed like 445 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 5: he's been in witness protection. Seating the stage, the Christy 446 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 5: Nome and Border Control Commander Greg been Vetom, What a 447 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 5: difference a week. Bovino, the new sheriff has been put 448 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 5: out on ice and the old sheriff home In is 449 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 5: back in charge, and he's bringing a national sigh of relief. 450 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 3: Let me introduce this week's panel. 451 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 5: Ingrid Jakes, an esteem columnist at USA Today. Carl Cannon, 452 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 5: Washington Bureau chief for Real Clear Politics, an executive editor 453 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 5: of Real Clear Media Group. He's also the former president 454 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 5: of the White House Correspondence Association. 455 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 3: He gets us good tickets. 456 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 5: And then we have Kennan Spivak, the founder and chairman 457 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 5: of the SMI Group, an international consulting firm and investment bank. 458 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 5: Is the author of several books of fiction and nonfiction. 459 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 5: He's a contribute to media outlets including Real Clear Politics 460 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 5: and Joel Kotkin, an internationally recognized authority on global economic 461 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 5: and political and social trends. Joe's latest book is Great 462 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 5: The Coming Neo Feudalism, A Warning to the global middle class. 463 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 3: Welcome all of you, all. 464 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 5: Right, you're David. 465 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: It's good to see everybody. Thank you all for coming. 466 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 3: Let's just jump into it. 467 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 5: Ingrid, your piece this week captured the harmonizing sentiments of 468 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 5: most people you know, in Minnesota and in the nationally 469 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 5: post Petty, would you mind highlighting your piece? 470 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 6: Sure. 471 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 9: I came at it from a little bit of a 472 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 9: different perspective. There had been so much attention on the 473 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 9: actions of the border agents on the ground and obviously 474 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 9: the tragedies that happened with these two American citizens dying, 475 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 9: And you know, you can just go back and forth, 476 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 9: who's to blame. Should those protesters have been trying to 477 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 9: interfere in the way they were? I think that's certainly 478 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 9: up for debate, But I don't think there had been 479 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 9: enough attention on the rhetoric coming from leaders in Minnesota. 480 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 9: And Minneapolis, for instance, Governor Tim Walls has just said 481 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 9: all kinds of just wild things, comparing ice enforcement in 482 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 9: his city with Nazis going door to door during World 483 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 9: War Two. 484 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 6: He brought up Nan Frank. 485 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 9: He's also alluded to how protesters should be out there 486 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 9: thinking of this like Minnesota's involvement in Gettysburg back during 487 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 9: the Civil War, like really making this seem like a 488 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 9: moral a moral protest, something that these citizens should be doing. 489 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 9: And I just think it's dangerous. And we've heard the 490 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 9: same thing coming from maryor Jacob Fray. Even this week, 491 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 9: after meeting with the Borders Are he said Minnesota will 492 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 9: not enforce federal immigration laws. And I just think that's 493 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 9: shocking coming from these leaders and people. Are you would 494 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 9: expect to. 495 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 6: Uphold the law. 496 00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: Thank you. 497 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 5: I'd like to turn to Joel. I mean, you're an 498 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 5: expert demographer. You know, you're presently bullish on Texas. You've 499 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: been shorting your home state of California. 500 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 3: I was just wondering. 501 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 5: What you you you kind of it seems like a 502 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 5: new kind of form of government is kind of emerging 503 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 5: in Minnesota, right. It's it's like the rules for radicals 504 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 5: have been taken and given a new expression. But it 505 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 5: seems like a new kind of democrats Socialist of America 506 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 5: promised land. 507 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 10: Well, of course, and that's a force that you see 508 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 10: all over the country. I mean, many of these people, 509 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 10: you know, clearly live in an alternative reality. 510 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 6: You know. 511 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 10: The reality is that I think that there's quite a 512 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 10: bit of blame to be assigned to the administration. 513 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: The rhetoric. 514 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 10: I mean, hopefully the let Christy Nolan go back to 515 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 10: shooting dogs. I think that basically, on the one hand, 516 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 10: I feel that the administration went too. I think their 517 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 10: approach on immigration is both has been both unfair and 518 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 10: also terrible politics. I think that's pretty clear. On the 519 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 10: other hand, I think what we're seeing on the other 520 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 10: side is scary. I've seen it here in southern California, 521 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 10: where the people just feel that they can do anything 522 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 10: and have no consequences, and that they also have a 523 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 10: sort of a ring of protection that's given to them 524 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 10: by the courts. Particularly here in California, we've had what 525 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 10: we haven't elected a Republican for a very long time. 526 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 10: The Democrats have been moving further and further to the left. 527 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 10: So essentially, if a judge agrees with you ideologically, it 528 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 10: seems like he's willing to give you virtually caught blanche. 529 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 10: So I blame both sides. I think that there is 530 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 10: a reasonable immigration policy that could have been put out. 531 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 10: You're going for the criminals first. You're going to try 532 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 10: to then go to all the people here who are undocumented. 533 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 10: Look at each case separately, and if the person hasn't 534 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 10: committed a crime, is a contributor, isn't on welfare, you say, okay, 535 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 10: you could apply, you can apply for citizenship. 536 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 3: You get to the back of the. 537 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 1: Line, you know. 538 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 10: And I want to just add one very quick thing 539 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 10: which really bothered me was the comp the comparisons with 540 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 10: the with the Holocaust. My mother in law is a survivor. 541 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 10: I can tell you what happened to her has nothing 542 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 10: remotely close to what's happening to Don Lemon and the protesters. 543 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 10: It's just it's incredibly offensive. 544 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 5: I would say, yeah, when you look at what's going 545 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 5: on Martin Luther the King, wouldn't it be given enough 546 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 5: time to write a letter from a Birmingham jail With 547 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 5: the way that California is actually treating people who who 548 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 5: really are protest it's just this revolving door that they 549 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 5: go out. I like to move to Kennon. Kenny, you've 550 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 5: had a piece in real clear politics this week where 551 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 5: you really tied what was happening in Minnesota right back 552 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 5: to the boarder again. 553 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: Would you please summarize that forth? 554 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 11: Sure, and David, congratulations in thanks for having me on 555 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 11: your premiere episode. 556 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 3: I'm really thrilled to be here. The piece I wrote. 557 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 11: Really looked at what's going on from the political side 558 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 11: and a bit of the legal side. The political issue 559 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 11: here to me is very clear at the level of 560 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 11: Democrat leaders and the activists who are and the funders 561 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 11: who are behind what's happening now. What they want is 562 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 11: open borders. The Biden administration really was the peak victory 563 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 11: of the open borders crowd. He just opened the borders 564 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 11: and let, depending upon the estimate, ten or twenty million 565 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 11: or even more unvetted illegal aliens to enter the United States. 566 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 11: He literally lou them around the United States, invited them in, 567 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 11: gave them free cell phones, free housing. And the decision 568 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 11: that was made in the Biden administration was this globalist 569 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 11: decision that we shouldn't have borders. It was a very 570 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 11: measured and correct decision that by moving these people into 571 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 11: the United States, the census count would change, and at redistricting, 572 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 11: the allocation of Democrat represented as would change and electoral 573 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 11: votes would change. Remember, these illegal aliens do not have 574 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 11: to become citizens and do not have to vote to 575 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 11: impact the elections, so that was a very measured and 576 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 11: correct decision. They also did this to change our culture. 577 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 11: Many progressors don't like American culture, and they wanted people 578 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,959 Speaker 11: from around the world to come here with different values. 579 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 11: And finally they made the assessment that it would be 580 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 11: very very difficult to undo what they did that because 581 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 11: of due process, because of other rules, these people would 582 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 11: be here to stay. And that's exactly what we're seeing now. 583 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 11: We're seeing the implementation of part two of the strategy 584 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 11: to do everything possible to make it impossible or at 585 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 11: least implausible, to remove many of these people from the 586 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 11: United States. Briefly, so don't take up much time on 587 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 11: the legal side. Everything that Trump administration is doing, it's constitutional, 588 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 11: it's lawful. What Ice and the Border Patrol are doing 589 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 11: is ninety nine percent correct, ninety eight percent correct, And 590 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 11: to the extent it's largely because when people are blowing 591 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 11: whistles in your ears, are getting in between you and 592 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 11: people you're trying to apprehend, when are kicking your cars, 593 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 11: it's very difficult even for a well trained person to 594 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 11: always get it right. So I think for political reasons 595 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 11: they may need to tone it down a bit, but 596 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 11: the mission is a just and necessary one and it 597 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 11: needs to be completed. 598 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Kennon. 599 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 5: We're gonna I'll turn it over to Carl Canon this week. 600 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna let you do whatever you want. 601 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 6: Carl. 602 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 5: I've watched your show this week. You've tipped over a 603 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 5: couple of tables. Share share your thoughts on what's happening. 604 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 12: Well, I agree with every single word that Joel On, 605 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 12: Ingram and Kennon said. The problem is that Donald Trump 606 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 12: hasn't said any of that. You know, this is the 607 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 12: Presidency's a communications job, and he goes out and gives 608 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 12: these hour long speeches. You know, they're a cross between 609 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 12: Fidel Castro and a New York insult comic, and he 610 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 12: just you know, makes fun of his enemies, calls people names. 611 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 12: Tom Holman laid out the case. Kenan just laid out 612 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 12: the case what what Joe Biden did. And I don't 613 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 12: think Joe Biden and maybe even the top people in 614 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 12: the White House gave it the amount of thought that 615 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 12: Kennon has. 616 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 11: There are people in the pro. 617 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 12: Legalization movement who have, but I think they's kind of 618 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 12: kneed your democratic politics. 619 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 8: Well let them in. 620 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 12: You know, it's not a crime to try and feed 621 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 12: your family. The upshot is that once Joe Biden leaves 622 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 12: Donald Trump comes in, the Democrats then switch, as Kenni sate, now. 623 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: Now they want to court. 624 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 12: They want a court case for all the let's say 625 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 12: it's ten million people who came in and this is 626 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,879 Speaker 12: this is above the one between one and one fight. 627 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 12: Zero point five million people who are made legal citizens 628 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 12: every year since in forty years. So we've accepted all 629 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 12: these people. 630 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 6: But there's no debate going on. 631 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 12: Really, the Democrats use these slogans and Trump doesn't even 632 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 12: do that. He the President of the United States, when 633 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 12: he came into office, needed to lay out the case. 634 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 12: Here's what we're going to do, here's why we're going 635 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 12: to do it, Here's who we're going to go after. 636 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: We're going to have this. 637 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 12: You know, we're going to first go after criminals who 638 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 12: came to this country who should never been let in 639 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 12: because they committed crimes abroad. Then we're going to go 640 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 12: after criminals people who have committed crimes here who are 641 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 12: not here legally. We're going to work with the Democrats. 642 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 12: We're going to say, look, if they're in jail, you 643 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 12: have to let us have them. That's what we're going 644 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 12: to and then and then the last group we're going 645 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 12: to go after is the people who came here while 646 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 12: Joe Biden was president. And here's how we're going to 647 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 12: do it. And so I don't mean this, you know, 648 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 12: like I'm blaming the victim here, but the Trump administration 649 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 12: handled this so poorly that I think they really they 650 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 12: really help the people who are basically trying to, you know, 651 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 12: do what our speakers have said, just basically have an 652 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 12: open border, which is in a sense, the end of 653 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 12: the nation state. 654 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 6: Now, maybe it's time to have that debate. 655 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 12: Maybe maybe we're maybe it's you know, the future is 656 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 12: here and we should talk about whether you should have 657 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 12: countries or reporters. 658 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 3: But the Democrats about. 659 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 12: That, yeah, well they yeah, they just they just lie 660 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 12: and and and Trump, you know, just calls people names, 661 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 12: and so what you've had here, to me is a 662 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 12: failure of leadership. It was going to be very hard 663 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 12: hard for Trump to do any of the things he 664 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 12: wanted to do for the reasons Kennon said, but he 665 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 12: went about it so poorly, and he pointed people in 666 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 12: office who were unfit to be in a high public office, who. 667 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 3: Didn't know how to connelicate. 668 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 6: We got sorry, I'm filibustering. Now you get my point. 669 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 5: I get your point, and guys, stick around. We'll be 670 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 5: talking poles next, get real returns in just two minutes. 671 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere, and we'll be right back with more 672 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,919 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Get Real brought to you by Real 673 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: Clear Politics and Reel America's Voice. 674 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 3: Welcome back. 675 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 5: In this segment, we're going to look at a poll 676 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 5: that's what Real Clear does, and here it is fifty 677 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 5: nine percent say Ice is too aggressive, up ten percent 678 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 5: since July, and forty five percent approve of the president's 679 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 5: job performance on immigration, while fifty five percent disapproom. I'd 680 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 5: like to turn it to turn it over to the panel, 681 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 5: ask and what they kind of think about this turn. 682 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 5: But also, you know, one of the things about doing 683 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 5: polls is we get to read the tea leaves of 684 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 5: what the American people think, but try to interpret them 685 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 5: where you know, what do you think they could do 686 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 5: to make them better or and what will keep them 687 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 5: going down? Were the opposite, I'll start with I'll start 688 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 5: with ingrid again and we'll just go across the grow 689 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 5: across the dock here. 690 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 9: Sure, I think immigration was that issue was one of 691 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 9: the reasons why Trump won in twenty twenty four. It 692 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 9: was consistently number one or number two on people's minds. 693 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 9: So and it had been still a pretty strong issue 694 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 9: for him until what we've seen happened. In the last 695 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 9: few weeks in Minneapolis. I think people see that, they 696 00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 9: hear about Americans getting killed by border agents, federal federal officers, 697 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 9: and they don't like that that's really not what they 698 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 9: signed up for. But I think Trump just needs to 699 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 9: return the focus to what he has done to secure 700 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 9: the border, to deporting the most violent of the illegal 701 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 9: aliens in the country now and I think he could 702 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 9: turn this back into a winning issue, but he's going 703 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 9: to have to be really careful moving on from Minneapolis. 704 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 9: It seems like he's on board with that, with getting 705 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 9: Tom Homan back and involved. But I think this was 706 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 9: a very important issue, and for Democrats to try to 707 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 9: say this pushback to what the American people are saying 708 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 9: about ICE means that the country wants open borders, I think. 709 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 6: Is very wrong. 710 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 8: Carl Well, she's right. 711 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 12: We did a poll real UH Polling, Opinion Polling Emerson 712 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 12: does pulling for US. 713 00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 6: It's out this week, David. 714 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 12: And the good news for Democrats is that by about 715 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 12: nine point six percent, almost ten percent, Americans disapprove of 716 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 12: the Trump administration's deportation immigration policies. The bad news is, 717 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 12: when asked how about Biden's administration policies. The Democrats are 718 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 12: underwater by almost twenty points. So people don't like what 719 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 12: Trump's doing. And the reason is what's happened in Minnesota. 720 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 12: The reason is they don't want ice killing people. But 721 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 12: that doesn't mean they don't want Inger's right, They don't 722 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 12: want to go back before. 723 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,240 Speaker 6: And they're telling us this if we'll listen. 724 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 12: So it's you know, it's up to the it's up 725 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 12: to the Republicans and the media to say to the Democrats, Okay, 726 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 12: what's your plan, because your previous plans very unpopular, what's 727 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 12: your new plan. And if they don't have one, you know, 728 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 12: maybe maybe that would help, because then maybe they'd have 729 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 12: to come up with a plan. 730 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 3: Kenned. 731 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 11: When you look behind the numbers, there are about thirty 732 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 11: percent of the people who are never going to support 733 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 11: any move to support illegal aliens, or about thirty percent 734 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 11: of the people who will support almost anything Trump does. 735 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 11: The middle forty percent are where the swing people are. 736 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,240 Speaker 11: The administration's lost about one quarter of that forty percent 737 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 11: in just the last couple of months. This is a 738 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 11: result of successful Democrat lobbying. It's as a result of, 739 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 11: as Carl put it quite well, a terrible rhetoric from 740 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 11: the Trump administration. It's the result of errors made by 741 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,240 Speaker 11: Ice and Border Patrol in Minneapolis, and in particular moving 742 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 11: too quickly to deport aliens other than criminal illegal aliens. 743 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 11: There's time for the administration to turn this around, but 744 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 11: if they don't, public safety will decline and the midterms 745 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 11: will go to the Democrats. 746 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 10: Joel, I just would like to just focus for a 747 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 10: moment on the group that's most effected, which is basically Latinos. 748 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 10: I work at the Civitas Institute in Austin an extensive 749 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 10: poll on Latino attitudes, and basically, most Latinos don't want 750 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 10: an open border. They're the ones who have to live 751 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 10: with it with this stuff. But the rhetoric has turned 752 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 10: people who even very conservative We've done focus groups, very 753 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 10: conservative Latinos are now turned against the administration. So I think, 754 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 10: as Carl said, a lot of it is a communications problem, 755 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 10: and a lot of it is you know, frankly, if 756 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 10: you're going to have a bunch of numb nuts to 757 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 10: run the policy, it's going to be a disaster. And 758 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 10: I really worry about this because I think that Latinos 759 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 10: in particular, who are going to be a very powerful 760 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 10: force in the next twenty thirty years, are alienated, and 761 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 10: this will make the whole atmosphere in the society much 762 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 10: less pleasant than it should be. So I think that 763 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 10: I wish there had been somebody in the administration who 764 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 10: thought about what the effect would be on this large 765 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 10: group in the population, and I don't think anyone has. 766 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. 767 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 5: They tipped the election in favor of Trump, and if 768 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 5: he loses them, he'll lose. Guys, Please stand by when 769 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 5: we return predictions for the week I've had. 770 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more. 771 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Get Real, brought to you by Real 772 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 2: Clear Politics and Reel America's Voice. 773 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Get Real. I'm David de Roger. 774 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 5: Before we wrap up, it's time for predictions about the 775 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 5: week ahead. I'm joining once again by our panel, Ingrid, 776 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 5: Carl Kennon and Joel. I thought i'd kind of lead 777 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 5: by example to be quick. You know, for example, what's 778 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 5: my Chris Ball telling me about next week? Hopefully it'll 779 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 5: be warmer, Minnesota will be calmer, and then we'll figure 780 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 5: out really what really drove us, you know, our grid 781 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 5: and its integrity over this kind of cold snap, and 782 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 5: we should say something nice about cold and natural gas 783 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 5: next week. Anger Well, I also. 784 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,240 Speaker 6: Hope things thought out. 785 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 9: It's quite cold here in Michigan where I am, and 786 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 9: I hope we see tensions decrease. But on a lighter note, 787 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 9: I'm going to go out on a limb and say 788 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 9: that Bad Bunny will wear a dress to the super Bowl. 789 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 6: I'll pick up. I'll pick up on that theme. 790 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 12: They will my predictions, they will play the game. 791 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 6: I won't predict who will win the game. 792 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,720 Speaker 12: Bad Bunny will perform, Green Day will perform, and Donald 793 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 12: Trump will talk crap about them the same way he 794 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 12: did about Taylor Swift when he said he hated Taylor Swift. 795 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 12: I thought he was trying to lose the election. I 796 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 12: realized now he was just trying to He felt sorry 797 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 12: for Kamala Harrison was just trying to make it closer. 798 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 799 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 11: Supreme Court decides that Trump did not have emergency powers 800 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 11: to impose foreign tariffs, Forman's case to decide what to 801 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 11: do about the billions of dollars already collected. My other 802 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 11: headline is Progressive demands for the resignation or firing of 803 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 11: Christy Nomes Steve Miller and Barry Weiss accelerate. 804 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 8: Very quickly. 805 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 10: I think that there's going to be and this is 806 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 10: an optimistic. 807 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 8: Interpretation. 808 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,760 Speaker 10: I think Democrats are beginning to realize that the ban 809 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 10: defund ice strategy is not the best way to go ahead. 810 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 10: I think Republicans are going to realize that something else 811 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 10: has to be done on the Republican side. And the 812 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 10: last thing is what the most important thing is what's 813 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,919 Speaker 10: going to happen in Iran? And next week we may 814 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 10: be talking about that more than anything else. 815 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 3: Well, thank you all of you. 816 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 5: I mean, this was this was something to really kind 817 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 5: of show an experience where every day we try to 818 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 5: bring about kind of a real clear accounting and you know, 819 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 5: and it's always with people who disagree. And here I 820 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,080 Speaker 5: think you guys are not a one hundred percent agreement, 821 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 5: but it's that special kind of disagreement. I think that 822 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 5: our nation doesn't have enough of, which is where you disagree, 823 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 5: you know, by degree and not kind. So I mean, 824 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,240 Speaker 5: it's a wonderful opportunity for me to have this show. 825 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 5: It's been great that you've been on it, and I 826 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 5: thank you and I hope to have you back. 827 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,240 Speaker 3: You know, this each thing. 828 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 5: Would be better if I could have regulars, So I 829 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,919 Speaker 5: think every one of you. If you'll have me, I'll 830 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 5: have you back. Thank you, David. That was a fun 831 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 5: made and voyage. I think we did it thanks to 832 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 5: the guest the panel. You know, I thought we brought 833 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 5: out more light than heat. Bye bye and we'll see 834 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 5: you next week.