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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Somebody knows something well. Truer

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Speaker 1: words were never spoken. And then in the case of

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Speaker 1: a boy in a suitcase, a little boy, a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little boy literally found in a suitcase dead. When the

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Speaker 1: case first hit the headlines, it was quite the furor.

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Speaker 1: A classic Las Vegas Welcome to Las Vegas suitcase with

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Speaker 1: the iconic sticker on the side was found seemingly out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere in the woods in Salem, Indiana.

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Speaker 1: A small body stuffed into a Welcome to the Fabulous

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas suitcase. The prime suspect, his mom, still on

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Speaker 1: the run after this taught's body found stuffed in a suitcase.

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Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us here at serious XM one eleven. I

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Speaker 1: will never forget it. This little child, beautiful little boy,

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Speaker 1: found dehydration the cause of death caused by gastro enterritis.

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Speaker 1: What a painful and slow suffering death this five year

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Speaker 1: old boy had. And now we know who is the purp.

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Speaker 1: The purp is his own mother. Why is she still

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Speaker 1: on the run? How is she able to outsmart police,

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Speaker 1: FBI bounty hunters, dog trackers, the works or are they

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Speaker 1: simply not focusing on apprehending her. Is a little five

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Speaker 1: year old boy somehow lost in the shuffles, his life

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Speaker 1: less important than other people's. Do you remember the man

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Speaker 1: hunt or should I say woman hunt for Caitlin Armstrong

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Speaker 1: accused of gunning down a beautiful pro cycler Mariah because

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Speaker 1: of a love triangle. They truck Armstrong down all the

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Speaker 1: way in disguise in Costa Rica. Oh yeah, they found

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Speaker 1: her because it was the high profile case. But seemingly

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Speaker 1: nobody cares about this little four feet tall, slim built,

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Speaker 1: short hair little boy for so long an unknown angel.

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Speaker 1: Listen to our friend's whas now.

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Speaker 2: The discovery was made by a person hunting for mushrooms

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Speaker 2: over the weekend. Also new today, an autopsy was performed.

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Speaker 2: We do know that police say the boy is only

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Speaker 2: five eight years old. They had that he could have

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Speaker 2: been from anywhere, not just southern Indiana. Investigators say they

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Speaker 2: have been searching the wooded area where the boy was found,

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Speaker 2: but the information has not led them to any answers.

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Speaker 1: And that is how the mystery, the puzzle began. But

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Speaker 1: I'm still overwhelmed by just the words A little boy

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Speaker 1: folded up dead in a suitcase. A Vegas suitcase found

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Speaker 1: in Indiana, but they have no idea where this little

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Speaker 1: boy was from. Take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: wdr B right now.

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Speaker 3: Indiana State Please isn't giving too any details on this case,

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Speaker 3: but investigators do believe that somebody out there knows something

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Speaker 3: that can help them figure out who this child was.

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Speaker 4: We are looking for the public's help and finding out

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Speaker 4: the name of this child, this little boy who deserves answers.

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Speaker 4: He deserves our help.

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Speaker 3: Sergeant Carrie Holmes said Saturday night, a mushroom hunter in

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Speaker 3: the woods in rural Washington County discovered the body of

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Speaker 3: a young boy.

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Speaker 4: He noticed something and went to invest gate and that's

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Speaker 4: what he found. So very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event,

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Speaker 4: very sad event.

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Speaker 5: The man who found this boy, Jeff Meridith, is in

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Speaker 5: agony knowing he was one of.

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Speaker 1: The last people to see this child's face.

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Speaker 6: When I first saw that little fella, immediately I felt

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Speaker 6: that he was telling me, help me, I need help.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's out of an Agatha Christie mystery.

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Speaker 1: A mushroom hunter, how likely is that? Very unlikely? Finds

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Speaker 1: a suitcase opens a suitcase and finds a little boy

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Speaker 1: dead inside. The first place you start is what was

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Speaker 1: the cod cause of death? Listen our friend's whas eleven, a.

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Speaker 7: Boy found dead in southern Indiana, remains nameless. His story

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Speaker 7: and the suitcase he was found in have gained national attention,

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Speaker 7: hundreds of tips submitted, and still no answers, except for

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Speaker 7: we now know how the boy died.

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Speaker 4: At this time there's no evidence. Then leads investigators to

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Speaker 4: believe that he was alive when he went into the suitcase.

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Speaker 5: Sergeant Carrie Hole says investigators got the autopsy and toxicology

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Speaker 5: reports on May twentieth, seven days later, they share this

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Speaker 5: unnamed boy died from an electrolyte imbalance.

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Speaker 4: Most likely due to gastro enteritis, which in common Layman's

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Speaker 4: term would be vomiting in diarrhea, and that resulted in dehydration.

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Speaker 1: Fatal dehydration.

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Speaker 5: And he says the toxicology report found nothing significant.

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Speaker 1: So if a little boy dies of vomiting and diarrhea,

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Speaker 1: nobody noticed that he was vomiting and had horrible diarrhea

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Speaker 1: till he was being starved, there was nothing in him

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Speaker 1: anymore and he just died. Where was he and I

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Speaker 1: guarantee it and crawl into a suitcase and die and

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Speaker 1: closed that suitcase and maneuver into the woods in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: That didn't happen. So we have a cod cause of death,

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Speaker 1: but still no name. Well, that little boy now has

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Speaker 1: a name. Listen to our friends at the Indiana State Police.

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Speaker 4: At this time, we can also identify, excuse me, identify

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Speaker 4: the young man that was found in the suitcase. He

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Speaker 4: was Cairo Amar Jordan. Cairo Amar Jordan was from Atlanta, Jeordian, Georgia.

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Speaker 8: Excuse me.

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Speaker 4: He was five years old at the time of his

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Speaker 4: death and Cairo would have turned six on October twenty fourth. Again,

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Speaker 4: Cairo Amar Jordan. He was five from Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 3: A man hunting for mushrooms made the discovery in Washington County,

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Speaker 3: Indiana on April sixteenth, but it wasn't until today that

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Speaker 3: investigators identified the little boy found inside as Cairo Jordan

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Speaker 3: from Metro Atlanta. People who live in that Indiana community

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Speaker 3: have weeded since spring for answers. They named the child Angel,

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Speaker 3: and strangers were overcome with the motion as they held

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Speaker 3: this memorial service forty six days after his body was found.

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Speaker 3: Now their local mystery has turned into a nationwide search

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Speaker 3: to find the child's mother.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at WSB too as

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Speaker 1: well and with me an all star panel to make

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Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now, including Max Lewis

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Speaker 1: from Fox fifty nine in Indianapolis. But first I want

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Speaker 1: to go to Detective Matt Busick joining us from the

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Speaker 1: Indiana State Police. Detective Busick, thank you for being with us, Yes, man,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Detective. Do you recall when you first learned?

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Speaker 1: I mean, let me ask you something off point. Do

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Speaker 1: you have children?

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Speaker 9: Yes, we do?

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Speaker 1: How many?

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Speaker 8: Six?

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Speaker 1: Actually I'm guessing one of those is a little boy.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I have three boys and three girls.

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Speaker 1: Do you recall when you first learned, Detective Music, that

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Speaker 1: a five year old little boy weighing forty pounds was

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Speaker 1: found folded up dead in a Vegas suitcase?

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Speaker 9: Yes, ma'am, how I do you recall that?

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Speaker 1: Tell me about it?

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Speaker 8: Well, yes, it's very disturbing, Yes it is.

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Speaker 1: I pictured my own children to doctor Thomas Plant joining me,

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Speaker 1: Professor of Psychology and Religious Studies, and you'll see why

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Speaker 1: he is so very critical in our discussion today, Adjunct

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Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University, Editor of Spirituality and

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Speaker 1: Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction with the Divine, Sacred Deceased.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 9: Well, thank you for inviting me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, sir, When I first heard about a five year

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Speaker 1: old boy folded over dead like an old coat in

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Speaker 1: a suitcase, abandoned, no idea where he came from, and

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Speaker 1: critically no one had reported him missing, all I could

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Speaker 1: think about were my children, John, David and Lucy at

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Speaker 1: age five, and how defenseless they were, Doctor Plant, does

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Speaker 1: the nature of crimes like this ever keep you from

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Speaker 1: a clearhead?

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Speaker 9: Well, of course, we're all emotional human beings, and we

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Speaker 9: all have emotional reactions, and we all can probably relate

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Speaker 9: as parents like yourself, like myself, and like so many others,

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Speaker 9: to what would it be like to discover our own

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Speaker 9: child in such an awful, horrific condition, And so, of

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Speaker 9: course we always can relate, And yet we have to

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Speaker 9: be objective and thoughtful and try to do the best

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Speaker 9: we can to understand the situation and act accordingly.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, joining US reporter with Fox

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Speaker 1: fifty nine in Indianapolis, Max, I'm sure you recall when

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Speaker 1: this Vegas suitcase was first discovered in Indianapolis. With obviously

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Speaker 1: you don't know whether the child is from Vegas or

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Speaker 1: Indianapolis or somewhere else.

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Speaker 10: It was shocking this kind of thing, doesn't you know.

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Speaker 10: We don't see this kind of thing every day. Were

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Speaker 10: see this, and yeah, there were so many questions. It's

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Speaker 10: such a mystery. Where is this kid from? Why was

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Speaker 10: he found out in the woods in rural southern Indiana.

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Speaker 10: There were just so many questions for so long, and

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Speaker 10: police really, from what we could tell, had nothing to

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Speaker 10: go on. And luckily they were able to, you know,

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Speaker 10: to find out some things and efficially give this this

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Speaker 10: little boy in the suitcase of names.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Remember a man who was

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Speaker 1: the mushroom hunting found the body of a little boy

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Speaker 1: in a secluded wooded area Washington County, about eighty feet

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Speaker 1: off a rural road in Indiana. It was April seventeen,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, over one year ago. Police release info

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Speaker 1: in the case, asking for help to ida the child

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Speaker 1: or parents. They announced a dedicated tip line for information

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Speaker 1: one eight eight eight four three seven six four three two.

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Speaker 1: They released information about the body, about the suitcase. People

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Speaker 1: living there in New Peaking came together for a vigil

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Speaker 1: to show their support, praying his case would be solved.

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Speaker 1: The child died from electrolyte imbalance, mostly due to vomiting

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Speaker 1: and diarrhea leading to dehydration. The suffering this child endured.

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Speaker 1: Steph Kramer, how do you go about how did they

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Speaker 1: identify the body as little tyro.

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Speaker 11: In this particular case. I think it was a combination

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Speaker 11: of single prints that were on the suitcase. I think

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Speaker 11: that was the meaning.

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Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, Steve Kramer, Steve joining us

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Speaker 1: from Indago Solutions. Guys, take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at WSB.

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Speaker 3: Dewan Anderson is now charged with murder as that.

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Speaker 4: No crime scene evidence technologies were spared in this case.

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Speaker 3: According to court documents, police identified Anderson through fingerprints on

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Speaker 3: trash bags used to wrap the child's body, and autopsy

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Speaker 3: report shows Jordan did not suffer any signs of physical trauma.

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Speaker 4: The autopsy listed the cause of death as an electro

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Speaker 4: lte and balance that caused a viral gastroonitis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is dehydration of Police believe after dumping

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Speaker 3: that body that Anderson went to California with a woman

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Speaker 3: named Don Coleman. Investigators were able to arrest Coleman in

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, but they have yet to track down Anderson.

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Speaker 3: They are still looking for her.

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Speaker 1: So mommy's fingerprints, Steve Kramer, you called it, we're all

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Speaker 1: over that trash bag. So I guess, then, Steve Kramer,

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Speaker 1: they find mommy and then they can deduce that it's

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Speaker 1: baby Tyro. Was that your thinking, Steve, Yeah, Craig.

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Speaker 11: That's I think the logical deducement. Once they did some

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Speaker 11: additional background information on Anderson, I think it was clear

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Speaker 11: that she was traveling apparently all over the country with

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Speaker 11: her child and with her friend Don Coleman, whose fingerprints

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Speaker 11: also I understand we're found on the suitcase.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, right there, Wait a minute, So Max Lewis

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Speaker 1: joining us investigative reporter with Fox fifty nine. We know

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Speaker 1: that mommy and her friend, her running buddy, left fingerprints

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Speaker 1: all over the trash bag. But I mean, think about

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Speaker 1: that image putting the child in a trash bag and

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Speaker 1: in a suitcase and leaving it. Max Lewis, I want

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Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friends WLKY and THHR.

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Speaker 1: On April fourteenth.

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Speaker 4: Investigators say cell phone towers and a home security camera

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Speaker 4: placed Anderson and Coleman in Pecan, Indiana.

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Speaker 11: Near the wooded area where Jordan's body was found.

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Speaker 4: This whole case is all about justice for Cairo. That's

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Speaker 4: the only thing this case has ever been about.

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Speaker 12: Investigators found a fingerprint on a trash bag in the

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Speaker 12: suitcase with the boy's body in June. The fingerprint match

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Speaker 12: was made to the one Anderson. Another fingerprint from the

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Speaker 12: trash bag in the suitcase match Don Coleman. The cell

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Speaker 12: phones of both women placed them in the area of

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Speaker 12: Peak in April fourteenth, two days before the suitcase was found.

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Speaker 12: Coleman's social media accounts include photos and videos of her

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Speaker 12: with a Las Vegas suitcase.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, So what role did cell

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Speaker 1: phone pings play and the identification of the mother as

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Speaker 1: a suspect.

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Speaker 10: It played a huge role the police. You know, they

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Speaker 10: were both in the Metro Louisville area for quite a while,

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Speaker 10: and so once they sort of you know, got their fingerprints,

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Speaker 10: made the connection to them, they started piecing all of

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Speaker 10: this stuff together. They had, as you've heard in Chris

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Speaker 10: prop the country together. Once they got into Louisville. They

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Speaker 10: came there, which is close to where this suitcase was

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Speaker 10: found in the wooded area is not too far outside

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Speaker 10: Metro Louisville, and they used those cell phone powers and

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Speaker 10: were able to show that they were in the exact

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Speaker 10: vicinity where that suitcase was found. Obviously no coincidence there.

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Speaker 1: And I bet anything jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics that

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Speaker 1: the two cell phones were traveling together, the devil and

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Speaker 1: the Devil's minion.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, how do you get two people to enter into

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Speaker 8: an agreement where they're going to do this to this

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Speaker 8: baby like this? And Nancy, I don't want to gloss

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Speaker 8: over this, this whole gastro enter ritis thing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I don't either go ahead.

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Speaker 8: As horrible as as it sounds, it would have been

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Speaker 8: more more merciful if that even exists in this context,

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Speaker 8: to put this baby out of his misery. Gastro enter eyes. Essentially,

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Speaker 8: what he had was stomach flue and we can all

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Speaker 8: identify with that, but it was untreated. Nancy. You remember

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Speaker 8: when our babies were a little and we'd go out and

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Speaker 8: get them pedia light perhaps or make the peda light

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Speaker 8: popsicles because they've got a tummy problem, and his bowel

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Speaker 8: was so inflamed, and that's what they found at autopsy,

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Speaker 8: that was what was evidence there. His bowel was so

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Speaker 8: inflamed that it led to his death and he would

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Speaker 8: have been vomiting. Plus he would have had severe stomach

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Speaker 8: cramps where he would be doubled over, and probably the

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Speaker 8: worst of this is that he would have had like

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Speaker 8: explosive bowel movements as well explosive diarrhea essentially, and he

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Speaker 8: was going, this is this is the horror. He's going untreated.

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Speaker 8: They couldn't even give this baby electrolytes, which you can

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Speaker 8: find in any number of things like pedia light or.

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Speaker 1: Take him to the dock in a box, no offense,

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Speaker 1: all u MD's. They hate being called that.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it would have been It would have been that simple.

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Speaker 8: They could have just hung an IV on this baby

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Speaker 8: and he would have potentially survived.

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Speaker 1: But they stood by, sat by the two of these

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Speaker 1: women and let him suffer like that. Just think about

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Speaker 1: your intestine swollen, red, hurting. Why do you get that, Jiscott, It's.

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Speaker 8: As a result of this absence of electrolytes.

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Speaker 1: Now, I mean, how do you get the diarrhea and

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Speaker 1: the uncontrolled vomiting to start with, where does that come from?

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Speaker 8: Well, this is as a result of the viral gastroenterritis,

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Speaker 8: and they're saying viral. So he literally had some type

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Speaker 8: of virus in his body. Okay, like a Nora virus

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Speaker 8: or one of these things that floats around that leads

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Speaker 8: to a viral infection and many times it'll set in

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Speaker 8: in your gut like this. And so as you're losing

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Speaker 8: all of these fluids, he's becoming dehydrated, Nancy. So he's

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Speaker 8: losing these little electrolytes. And there's a variety of them.

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Speaker 8: You've got sodium and chloride and potassium. But basically they're

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Speaker 8: kind of the guardrails that keep our heart functioning, our

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Speaker 8: brain functioning. It keeps us you know, he could have

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Speaker 8: had a seizure.

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Speaker 1: Well, Scott, sorry to interrupt you, but according to mommy,

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Speaker 1: you're perfectly wrong. Oh really, because she believes and had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the virus and it had everything

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Speaker 1: to do with the devil. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut thirty three.

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Speaker 12: Wrnhas social media posts from both women that indicate they

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Speaker 12: thought the boy was demon possessed eight days before the

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Speaker 12: body was discovered Coleman posted nothing is what it seems,

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Speaker 12: and we are catering to evil beings and children avatars

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Speaker 12: that aren't even children, and five days before the body

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Speaker 12: was discovered, Anderson posted, I have survived the death attacks

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Speaker 12: from my five year old throughout the five years he

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Speaker 12: has been alive. I have been able to weaken his

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Speaker 12: powers through our blood.

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Speaker 5: The probable cause affidavit shows Anderson sent Facebook messages claiming

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Speaker 5: her son was a demon who tried to harm her.

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Speaker 5: She wrote to an Indiana pastor saying she believed he

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Speaker 5: was actually one hundred years old and she used blood

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Speaker 5: for some kind of exorcism. In reality, he was a

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Speaker 5: defenseless five year old boy.

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Speaker 1: Do I have to say the words? Lauri Valo? Calt mom,

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Speaker 1: Laurie Valo and her what was he? Jackie? Her fourth

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Speaker 1: or fifth husband? Chad Dabel, His wife mysteriously died in

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Speaker 1: her sleep. She was as healthy as a horse, and

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Speaker 1: she just ran a marathon and then she dies in

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Speaker 1: her sleep. Uh Uh, they killed her. It's a crutch

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Speaker 1: using some completely opposite religion of what Christ intended. That.

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Speaker 1: I'm an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not

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Speaker 1: what he had in mind. Calling your five year old

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Speaker 1: child the devil and demanding an exorcism. Both mommy Desjohn

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Speaker 1: Anderson and her friend don Elaine Coleman's fingerprints found on

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Speaker 1: the trash bag that in case baby George body. Law

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Speaker 1: enforcement still actively seeking them other, but it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense to me calling your five year old child

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Speaker 1: the devil and demanding an exorcism with us. Doctor Thomas Plant,

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Speaker 1: you heard him earlier, professor's Psychology and Religious Studies, Clinical

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Speaker 1: professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford and the

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Speaker 1: editor of Spirituality and Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction

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Speaker 1: with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased. Psychological, Scientific

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Speaker 1: and Theological Perspectives, Doctor Plant, what do you make of this?

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Speaker 9: Well, you know, I think the bottom line is, you know,

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Speaker 9: psychopathology can be a really terrible and brutal thing, and

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Speaker 9: you can't diagnose someone from afar. But what it sounds

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Speaker 9: like is that this as what given the data that's

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Speaker 9: been presented, is that it sounds like the person has

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Speaker 9: a psychotic disorder. Perhaps it's schizophrenia, could be bipolar, could

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Speaker 9: be since she has another person involved with this according

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Speaker 9: to the report, you would wonder about what's called a

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Speaker 9: shared delusional disorder or a felia do, where two people

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Speaker 9: share the same delusion.

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Speaker 1: Right, are you speaking French or Latin? Flee I do?

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Speaker 1: That's two do?

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Speaker 9: Le I do is French. It means a folly of two,

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Speaker 9: and that's a diagnosis also called shared delusional disorder.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, I am just a JD. You are the

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Speaker 1: professor of psychology and religious studies. Hold on, just's so

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Speaker 1: much at once? Folly of two? Felei I do? And

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Speaker 1: because I can accept that one person could be schizophrenic

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Speaker 1: or have some type of psychotic disorder, but two of

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Speaker 1: them together in the same room and they agree to

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Speaker 1: kill a baby and all them up like a blanket

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Speaker 1: and put them in a suitcase, that to me is unreasonable.

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Speaker 1: There would be two people equally psychotic, which leads me

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Speaker 1: with one answer. They're murderers. They knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: They're hiding behind some crazy religious belief and they're main

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 9: Well. As I mentioned, you can't diagnose from afar. But

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Speaker 9: according to the American Psychiatric Association, there are a legitimate

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Speaker 9: diagnosis called felia do or now it's called shared delusional disorder,

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Speaker 9: and you do see it and I've seen some of

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Speaker 9: those cases a lot.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen a lot of them?

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Speaker 9: No, No, it's pretty unusual, but it's there, just like

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Speaker 9: for example, schizophrenia affects maybe about one out of one

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Speaker 9: hundred people, which is and felia DO or shared delusional

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Speaker 9: disorder would probably be about one out of a thousand

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Speaker 9: people or so. That may or may not be the diagnosis.

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Speaker 9: But I think the bottom line is you've got major

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Speaker 9: psychopathology here, and I think that's probably pretty clear. And

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Speaker 9: the question is, you know, what do you do when

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Speaker 9: you have a situation where people have such severe disorders

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Speaker 9: and they have children in their possession or in their custody.

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Speaker 9: That brings into issues of you know, child protection and

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Speaker 9: so forth, which are often challenging to deal with them.

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Speaker 9: There was probably early signs. This probably wasn't the first

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Speaker 9: sign that this child was in trouble.

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Speaker 1: To Steve Kramer, former FBI attorney, federal prosecutor president in

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Speaker 1: Doggo's Solutions, you know what, I am a Christian. I'm

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Speaker 1: seeking the truth every day trying to live it. But

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Speaker 1: this theory of hiding behind your religion in order to

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Speaker 1: do horrible things, I'm not quite sure how to call

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Speaker 1: out and we see it all the time. When I

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Speaker 1: mentioned called mom Laurie Valo using her apocalyptic religious beliefs

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Speaker 1: and she gets slung up with Chad Davebell the prophet

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Speaker 1: And for those of you that can't see me, I

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Speaker 1: absolutely used air quotes on that. And I've seen over

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Speaker 1: and over and over Steve Kramer parents has some religious

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Speaker 1: belief and they ended up starving their children or beating

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Speaker 1: them all in the name of Dare I say it God?

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Speaker 1: And frankly, I mean I hear doctor Plant. I know

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Speaker 1: he's a lot smarter than me, for sure, but it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to me that a mother who

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Speaker 1: could drive hide her baby still on the land. By

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Speaker 1: the way, she's crazy, but she can elude police and

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Speaker 1: plan her next spot. She's still not caught. She's got

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Speaker 1: Indiana State troopers standing on their ears trying to find her.

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Speaker 1: There's a nationwide alert for her. So how crazy? Issues

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Speaker 1: she crazy like a fox? Steve Kramer? Does she have

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Speaker 1: some psychosis? And if so, do you really believe both

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Speaker 1: of them are delusional? I heard what doctor Plant said

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Speaker 1: about Phillya. Do folly of two share delusional disorder? Not bien,

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Speaker 1: I'll convict both of these women. Literally, their fingerprints are

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Speaker 1: all over the garbage bag they stuff this child into.

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Speaker 11: You're turn Cramer, Yeah, I mean to call this a religion,

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Speaker 11: Come on, that's nonsense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know, babbeling, not you, doctor Plant,

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Speaker 1: not you.

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Speaker 11: No, no, no, of course, know that.

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Speaker 1: The last thing I want to do is get a preacher.

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Speaker 12: Man.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even need that in my life. Go ahead, Cramer,

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Speaker 1: just let's make sure you got your Plant knows it's

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Speaker 1: not about him. But what do you say exactly what

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Speaker 1: they're going to claim with trial if they're ever caught, Ah, exactly.

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Speaker 11: I mean putting the stuff out on Facebook and Twitter

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Speaker 11: about you know, their child is you know, an avatar

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Speaker 11: and my child's somehow possessed or I had to do

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Speaker 11: some healing and I had to do some killing. I mean,

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Speaker 11: the stuff they're saying. I mean, this is actually, unfortunately

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Speaker 11: not that uncommon. You know, we see cases like you

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Speaker 11: mentioned the Lori Vallo Chad dave Bell case where she

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Speaker 11: killed her own children. We see other cases a lot

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Speaker 11: of times when we find children, young children like this

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Speaker 11: that are incapable of taking care of themselves, that are

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Speaker 11: abandoned someplace dead. The bodies when we eventually identify the parents,

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Speaker 11: they are off with having some affair, the child was

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Speaker 11: an inconvenience, or they're on some drug high again the

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Speaker 11: child's an inconvenience. So that aspect is now really uncommon.

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Speaker 11: And I think in this particular case, I mean, you.

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Speaker 1: Look at it.

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Speaker 11: I mean she said I had to do some healing

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Speaker 11: and killing, and that was around April twelfth, and the

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Speaker 11: body was found two days later, April fourteenth. And I

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Speaker 11: was pointing out one key thing with this, and you

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Speaker 11: mentioned it earlier too, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Is.

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Speaker 11: I didn't think they were doing anything wrong? Then why

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Speaker 11: did to hide the baby or the five year old

437
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 11: in a suitcase and put it out in the field.

438
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 11: And why are they on the land now? What are

439
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 11: they running from? That they haven't done anything wrong. So

440
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 11: clearly she knows that she's done something wrong. But what

441
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 11: I find most interesting is her accomplice, John Coleman. They

442
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 11: were both wanted on warrants of neglect of a dependent

443
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 11: and obstruction of justice, and Coleman was arrested on the

444
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 11: nineteenth of October. Less than a week later, those charges

445
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 11: were upgraded to murder against miss Anderson. So Obviously she

446
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 11: probably said something to the police exactly what happened with

447
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 11: this child that allowed the police and the prosecutors to

448
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 11: upgrade the charges from neglect to murder.

449
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen to wt are a judge sentence Don

450
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: Coleman this morning in Cairo Jordan's death.

451
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 13: This judge did not mince words. He told Don Coleman

452
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 13: in court today, you packaged Cairo like trash. He was

453
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 13: an innocent little boy who just wanted to be loved.

454
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 8: Do you have wicked beliefs in wicked ways?

455
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 13: Pointed words from a Washington County judge tuesday as he

456
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 13: sentenced Don Coleman. Now she'll spend a quarter century in prison.

457
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the walls of your jail seale for the next

458
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: twenty five years will be nothing.

459
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 8: Compared to the walls of that suitcase.

460
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: I hope the image is forever edged in your memory.

461
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 13: Under the plea deal, Coleman has agreed to testify against

462
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 13: Anderson when she's found and has her own day in court.

463
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. There's such a history Steve

464
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: hiding behind some kind of religion. Why your child dies?

465
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: Let's see, there's two year old I'm going to listen

466
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: last night, Ella Grace her parents, Jonathan and Grace Ford,

467
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: thought it was God's will their little two year old die.

468
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: Then there's nine year old Jason Lockhart out of Oklahoma,

469
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: much the same, sixteen year old Neil Bigley, much the same,

470
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: and they hide behind religion while their child dies. That's

471
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing. I mean, Max Lewis Fox fifty nine

472
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 1: joining us. So I'm Indianapolis. What's the reaction to Mommy

473
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: claiming her child was possessed?

474
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 10: Well, you know, it's and sort of speechless myself, and

475
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 10: I think that's the way everybody else was. You know,

476
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 10: she had tried to reach out to this priest in

477
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 10: southeastern Indiana who was a well known performer of exorcists,

478
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 10: Vatican trained exorcist, and wasn't able to get.

479
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 9: A hold of him.

480
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 10: And so that claim, I think, or that sort of

481
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 10: claim from her and the Facebook post that you were mentioning,

482
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 10: I think was really shocking to everybody. I do want

483
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 10: to make a point about something that doctor Plant said.

484
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 10: He said that this child was likely in danger before,

485
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 10: or there were likely signs before. Well there was. She

486
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 10: was actually these two women, Mom and Don Coleman actually

487
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 10: got into a car chase. Court records showdown in South Carolina.

488
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 10: They were running from the police, going over ninety miles

489
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 10: an hour on the interstate, and the kit and the

490
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 10: little boy, Kirote was in the car with them. I

491
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 10: mean that doesn't you know, spell danger? I don't know

492
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 10: what does? So you know clear, I think what doctor

493
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 10: Plant said is correct. This boy was in danger before,

494
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 10: had been in danger, and unfortunately the peers the right

495
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 10: steps weren't taken and he ended up in this suitcase dead.

496
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: Why wasn't the baby taken away then, Max Lewis, I mean,

497
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: his siblings have been taken away, Why not him?

498
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 10: I don't know, you know, it's really a mystery and

499
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 10: something that probably authorities in South Carolina maybe need to

500
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 10: answer for. Because when this car chase in ended, you know,

501
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 10: Anderson was the one driving, the mom was the one driving,

502
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 10: and then Don Coleman was in the passenger seat. The

503
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 10: baby was in the backseat. When this police chase ended

504
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 10: because they ran out of gas. They basically just dropped

505
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 10: Don Coleman and the child off at a motel and

506
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 10: took the mom to jail, and so she was the

507
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 10: child was given right back to them.

508
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Wow. Sounds like de facts, the Parming family, Chieldness services

509
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: on and again. Now they have another dance. Seemingly nobody

510
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: but me cares because it keeps happening every day. Children

511
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: in horrible, dangerous situations are left there because Child Protector

512
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: Services does nothing. Now, speaking of exorcism, take a listener

513
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: friends at Fox fifty nine.

514
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 14: Yeahfi David in the case details a series of strange

515
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 14: social media posts police see Kyrol's mother sent about demons, exorcism,

516
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 14: and dark magic in the days before he was found.

517
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 14: On April twelfth, Anderson reached out to an Indianapolis priest,

518
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 14: Father Vincent Lampert, from the Archdiocese of Indianapolis on Twitter.

519
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 14: Father Lampert is one of dozens of priests who are

520
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 14: exorcists in the US, as you may know, and exorcist is.

521
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: Someone trained to cast out demons.

522
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 14: Father Lampert told us it's rare that a child dealing

523
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 14: with quote demonic possession.

524
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 15: There's no such thing as an emergency exorcism. It really

525
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 15: begins with the person having a psychiatric evaluation by qualified

526
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 15: psychologists or psychiatrists, and then having a medical examination by

527
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 15: her family doctor.

528
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: Mommy Anderson talks online about needing a quote exorcism on

529
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: her son to remove his demonic force. She even made

530
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: a post about telling her story in a book or

531
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: podcast about living with a quote demonic child. Doctor plant,

532
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: What exactly is an exorcism?

533
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 9: An exorcist is trained to perform a ritual. As you know,

534
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 9: the Catholic Church has lots of rituals, and this is

535
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 9: one a ritual that of training so that they it's

536
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 9: they're trained through the Vatican and so forth. The Vatican

537
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 9: approved and exorcists like this gentleman you just mentioned, and

538
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 9: including the exorcists that I've worked with, we'll say that

539
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 9: ninety nine point nine percent of the time of cases

540
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 9: are major psychopathiclogy and what's necessary is a psychiatric evaluation

541
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 9: or medical evaluation and so forth, and their troubles are

542
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 9: really in that arena. And I think that's true when

543
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 9: it comes to religion. Sadly and tragically, some people use

544
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 9: religion for great harm and some people use religion for

545
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 9: great good. And I think that it's sort of like

546
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 9: a car. You know, a car can be a great thing.

547
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 9: It gets you where you want to go, But a

548
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 9: car in the hands of a drunk driver is a

549
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 9: terrible weapon. The same is true with religion. In this case,

550
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 9: as you said, this woman may have been using those

551
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 9: imagery and things like that to justify her behavior, which

552
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 9: is horrific. But you know, sadly, that is a common

553
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 9: phenomenon across the world, and it always has been, where

554
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 9: people project their troubles and whatnot onto kind of religion

555
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 9: and then justify their actions in that way.

556
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: What you said is entirely true. Doctor Plant just got Morgan.

557
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: I know forensics, I know crime, and that's what I'm

558
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: going to fall back home when I don't understand the rest.

559
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: I want you, specifically to take a listen to Courtney Spinelli.

560
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: Fox fifty nine.

561
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 16: A child who for months was only known as the

562
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 16: boy found in a suitcase in rural Indiana, now has

563
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 16: a name. Five year old Cairo Jordan.

564
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 14: Is Sue hasn't really suckond d.

565
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 16: Cairo's paternal grandparents and great uncles say they only learned

566
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 16: he died one day ago.

567
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 6: I would have wanted to know what kind of person

568
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 6: he would have come to be, things.

569
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 16: Like whether he would have grown up to play football

570
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 16: like his dad did when he was younger. Authorities are

571
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 16: still trying to find Cairo's mother, Dejon Anderson, now charged

572
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 16: in his murder.

573
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 8: Dall she had to do with you? You know, let

574
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 8: us know? And what are he usually talking?

575
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: How many children just got Morgan death? Investigator? Have you

576
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: been at the murder scene, the homicide scene, the death scene,

577
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: the autopsy where mommy or daddy is the killer? But

578
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the family did nothing. They knew there

579
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: was a problem. How could this family not know mommy

580
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: was arrested for a felony in South Carolina and got

581
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: the child back.

582
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 8: And that's counting on the fact that the individual had

583
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 8: contact with her family. But lots of times you'll have

584
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 8: these individuals that will know, I mean, they will know

585
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 8: that what's going on within that household is wrong, and

586
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 8: nobody interdicts it because nobody wants to get crossways with

587
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 8: the family members. Nobody wants to create a problem with

588
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 8: the family members and all for what. Now, in this

589
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 8: particular case, you've got this baby who was abandoned like garbage.

590
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 8: Let's just face it, that's the way he was treated

591
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 8: out in the middle of the woods. And you can't

592
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 8: tell me there weren't red flags leading up to this.

593
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 8: I've seeing this over and over and over again, hard.

594
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: To believe that with all of the available tools at

595
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: our fingertips Mommy to John Anderson, still on the run

596
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: running from Lady Justice after her child found stuffed in

597
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: a Vegas suitcase in the middle of the woods dead. Disturbingly,

598
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: we learn Mommy Anderson arrested in South Carolina for child endangerment,

599
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: speeding in failure to stop for officers. Anderson only stopped

600
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: when she ran out of gas just before Tiny Kyrie's

601
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: body was found. Mommy Anderson arrested in Louisville for shoplifting

602
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: and assault. We learned that Mommy's friend Coleman, claims to

603
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: have been babysitting Cairo after Anderson was arrested. After picking

604
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: up Anderson, they went to stay at a cousin's home

605
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: in Louisville. According to a witness, the witness comes into

606
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: a bedroom to find Anderson on top of the baby boy,

607
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: the boy facing down on a mattress. Court documents only

608
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: recently released, claimed the witness told investigators quote it was

609
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: already done when the witness came in the bedroom to

610
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: find the little boy dead. Dejohn Anderson aka Mommy had

611
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: already gathered trash bags in the bedroom used to stuff

612
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: the tots body and a suitcase to somehow rationalize the murder.

613
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: Mommy claimed her son was quote possessed as she drove

614
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: to Indiana to dump the suitcase. Mommy's phone ping to

615
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: peek in Indiana, not far from where Cairo's body found. Additionally,

616
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: we learned surveillan's video from a property owner shows Mommy's

617
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: car stop on the road where the suitcase was discovered.

618
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: After coming social media, we learned that Mommy's friend and

619
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: had the very same suitcase in which the boy's body

620
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: was found on the very same day the Vegas suitcase

621
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: was discovered. Video allegedly shows Mommy's car driving across a

622
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: bridge from Indiana to Louisville. A felony murder arrest warrant

623
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: has been issued for Anderson, but she's currently on the run.

624
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: Last believed to be in the La area. Cops say

625
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: they've searched for her in the Metro LA area but

626
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: came up empty handed. Last known location Echo Park, LA,

627
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: but she's known to travel far and wide, recently having

628
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: been in San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Houston.

629
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: Her contacts reached all the way back to Georgia, where

630
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: Little Cairo was born Anderson five five, one hundred and

631
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 1: thirty five pounds, short, dark brown hair, and last known photo.

632
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: Often prone to wear wigs or hair exton I don't

633
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: care how many extensions she wears. Nothing is going to

634
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: change those fingerprints. According to recently released court documents, we

635
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: learned police use technology to pull fingerprints from trash bags

636
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: that encased the tiny boy's body stuffed in a suitcase.

637
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: Those prints a one hundred percent match to mommy, de

638
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: jan Anderson. I want justice. I want Little Cairo's mother,

639
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: Dejean Anderson brought back to court to face a jury

640
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: and a true verdict. We wait as justice unfold. Goodbye friend,