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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's right.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary,

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Speaker 2: updates and insights.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episodes seventy seven, which we name Live

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Speaker 1: at the Keswick Theater from our Philadelphia Live show.

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Speaker 2: This episode came out on July thirteenth, twenty seventeenth. So

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Speaker 2: let's listen to the intro of episode seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: What a Philly Oh oh, never's good for you? I

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Speaker 1: was pointing up there, there's nobody up.

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Speaker 2: There, Okay, how you guys have a balcony ceiling?

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Speaker 1: Wow? I was like, I think this is much bigger

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Speaker 1: than it is. No, I'm still pretty big atually. Yeah. Wow.

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Speaker 1: But that was a good scream that it hits me.

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Speaker 2: You know when you walk on and people are all

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Speaker 2: screaming at you at one time.

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Speaker 1: It's great. I started got a try too, and it

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Speaker 1: felt really good. You just heard what I started screaming

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Speaker 1: and nobody heard me, and it was like great, Like

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Speaker 1: do want a fucking weird scream?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, to kind of a primal thing, right, But

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Speaker 2: at the top of the show, yeah, yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Not service now. Yeah, this is the last show of

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Speaker 1: this fucking tour? You guys. For one second, I almost went,

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Speaker 1: is it really?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 1: We're gonna sack like one of you to night.

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Speaker 2: We decided it would be fun to end the tour

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Speaker 2: with an actual murder. Yeah, yeah, chosen at random, just

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Speaker 2: like Shirley Jackson's Lottery.

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Speaker 1: So don't worry. Everyone has a stone. If you don't

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Speaker 1: have a stone in your house in your hand, you're

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Speaker 1: the person with right. We all throw the rocks at

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Speaker 1: the person without a rock. That's such a.

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Speaker 2: Good plan, is It's like you're like a you're kind

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Speaker 2: of like a Shirley Jackson's Lottery director in a way.

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Speaker 1: Can we get uh? Yeah? Like for the children? Do

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Speaker 1: they ever have that? In? Killing children? That's what you'd

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Speaker 1: like to do? They don't. Wait did you what kind

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Speaker 1: of shoes did you bring?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 1: I brought these in more than the first night and

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Speaker 1: then said fuck that and more like aerosol slipons the

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Speaker 1: next night, like and then I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: the last show, I should probably dress up, and so

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Speaker 1: I put fancy shoes on and fake eye lashes on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you Georgia for carrying the weight and your dress. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we checked this the other game. Missy, miss sophisticated. Miss

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Speaker 2: it's taking a walk in that outfit deticated, isn't she

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Speaker 2: a sophisticated.

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Speaker 1: Miss Get on up here, can kill Gareff and show.

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Speaker 2: Them your your outfit flats, thank you, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I brought high heels.

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Speaker 2: I think I wore them the first night on Friday night,

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Speaker 2: and I was just like, I don't know, I like

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Speaker 2: the slippers feel Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, that sucks. No, I

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Speaker 1: totally get it. Should I take I'm taking these off now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever you guys saw them, we're just like Alanis

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Speaker 2: Morris set, all barefoot and fucking We don't get.

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Speaker 1: The gin do it? I uh?

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Speaker 2: Also, these shoes are my fans, these shoes, but they

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Speaker 2: have the bottoms like there's just a nail.

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Speaker 1: It's just a nail like that. The thing fell off

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Speaker 1: yours probably decades ago probably, And I'm just like, well,

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Speaker 1: they're tap shoes now, yeah, click giddy click kick click

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Speaker 1: click click.

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Speaker 2: You should have done a little something, shouldn't ship that's

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Speaker 2: the next door. There's gonna be a very large, choreographed

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Speaker 2: home on the next door.

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Speaker 1: I think we're kidding We're not kidding.

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Speaker 2: We're going to do tear away outfits and I would

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Speaker 2: personally like to do some sort of a we are

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Speaker 2: a part of the Rhythm Nation break down.

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Speaker 1: Well, technically, any outfit is a tear away outfit if

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Speaker 1: you really put your heart into it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, end of the show. That's right, Tarror

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Speaker 2: all this ship away up. I never want to wear

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Speaker 2: this dress again. By the way, it smells like smells

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Speaker 2: like three hotels.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's not it's not working for me. What

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Speaker 1: are your favorite memories from this? Thank you for asking, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Could I get a spotlight over here please, just from

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Speaker 2: this weekend or.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing?

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Speaker 2: The whole thing, you guys has been going on for

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Speaker 2: a really long time.

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Speaker 1: We started February. Started in February.

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Speaker 2: In Nope, Oakland, Oakland. Yes, Fox Theater in Oakland. Oh,

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Speaker 2: we were so young and innocent them.

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Speaker 1: I forgot my passport to go to Vancouver the next day.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It started with some drama. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: been fucking rock and roll ever since. It really has.

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Speaker 1: We have a we have a short video of our

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Speaker 1: highlights to show you. It's a montage right.

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Speaker 2: Directed by Wes Anderson. Everything's all centered up.

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Speaker 1: I think. Then he's not here.

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Speaker 2: But I would say this, my favorite memory probably would

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Speaker 2: be and you're going to have to tell me.

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Speaker 1: Where it happened.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right, I'll remember Indianapolis, I think, Okay, maybe Milwaukee.

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Speaker 2: Oh the girl There was a girl who in the

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Speaker 2: audience threw up oh and then crawled up the aisle

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Speaker 2: out of the theater. That is, you're fucking giving them

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Speaker 2: an idea.

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Speaker 1: That's how Karen loved me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm are you got to earn it

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Speaker 2: if you want it. And I was like, that is

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Speaker 2: a girl who's doing an impression of me when I

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Speaker 2: was twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Again miss her. Last night we had a girl who

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Speaker 1: ended up doing the hometown murder, but she tweeted at

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Speaker 1: us and was like, I got I dated a murderer.

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Speaker 1: And they were like, oh my gosh. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: in fact, I want to tell it so bad, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to wait to get blackout drunk till after the show.

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Speaker 1: We're like, well, maybe we shouldn't pick her. Okay, she

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Speaker 1: changes her mind, But then Karen fucking Voodoo random picked

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Speaker 1: a girl in the audience and it was her. It

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Speaker 1: turned out to be her. Do you understand what that

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Speaker 1: felt like to me? Yeah? The power that I now know.

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Speaker 1: I wheeled.

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Speaker 2: It was super weird because I have to say I

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Speaker 2: do I like to do that kind of when you

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Speaker 2: do the picking right, was like, m we'll see, we'll see,

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Speaker 2: we'll see. Then there was just something where I was like,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be this girl over here, but we

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Speaker 2: already had somebody who had written something out that was amazing.

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Speaker 2: So she came up and did it, and then we

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Speaker 2: were like, we have time for one more.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, it's got to be you.

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Speaker 2: And Georgia had already written that girl's name down off

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Speaker 2: of Twitter, written it on a piece of paper in

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Speaker 2: case we forgot. So the girl walks up and I said,

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Speaker 2: what's your name? And she is Amanda and then Georgia

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Speaker 2: just holds the paper up with her name on it

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Speaker 2: like some fucking and I was like, gosh, and magic.

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Speaker 1: Tricks with you, and she's like what She's like, let's fuck.

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Speaker 2: We were all creeped out. It was the best night.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it again. Yeah, oh we will, Oh we will.

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Speaker 1: Don't you hate it when you do something insane and wonderful?

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Speaker 1: Like that, like when you've turned to the right page,

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Speaker 1: like the exact right page, or like something crazy happens

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Speaker 1: and coincidential and your friend is like that's cool.

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Speaker 2: You're like, no, I begged her from the audience.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I gave I gave you your what I

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Speaker 2: did the you really did?

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Speaker 1: We can new man, that's excite last night. You did

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Speaker 1: it tonight?

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say your favorite thing

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Speaker 1: was when the girl fucking ran on stage. I don't

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Speaker 1: like that. All right, well we this zow domain. Let's

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Speaker 1: not let's not repeat that. Yeah, it's kind of triggering.

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Speaker 1: It's triggering. We've talked so much about her. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of it. I want to. I just like, no,

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Speaker 1: we looks her. What other things? I guess we went

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Speaker 1: to cracker barrel mines are always food, is it? What

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Speaker 1: did we eat backstage? We just had some great Chinese food,

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Speaker 1: crab rangoon, it's always my favorite part. What kind of

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Speaker 1: snacks do they have backstage?

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Speaker 2: I grab rangoon wedemand it it's on our right, it's

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Speaker 2: on our writer ms nose.

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Speaker 1: I don't have that. We're not going on stage. That's

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Speaker 1: why we're ten minutes late. Yeah, minutes late.

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Speaker 2: They had to go to Shrewsbury to get crab Ram

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Speaker 2: gooon local jokes, don't get local work.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fine, I guess this is our last shuttle. This

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Speaker 1: is why.

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Speaker 2: Yep, we went antiquing. Is it not called Shrewsbury? Am

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Speaker 2: I saying it wrong? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: That was wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, yeah, that was right. That's what you said earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying the same thing twice. Everyone heres like,

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Speaker 2: we don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We did go antiquing. Yeah, lost our minds.

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Speaker 2: Georgia, this is my favorite. George's like I have to

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Speaker 2: get these books. I want to get that mirror, and

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Speaker 2: it's like all stuff you do not want to travel with.

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Speaker 2: She's just like, what about this old anvil? Let's buy that?

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Speaker 1: And Vince was like I don't know, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'll make it fit. I will get it in there,

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Speaker 1: get it, and I did. I pecked it today. I

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Speaker 1: have a fucking shopping problem, like for real, But it

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Speaker 1: was so cheap, like four bucks for this, Like.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I have a problem. You had to get it,

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Speaker 2: but it's a fun problem. You had no choice.

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Speaker 1: And then I do that, Like, this is so cute,

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Speaker 1: but I don't need it. Who could I get this for?

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Speaker 1: Oh I have a friend who has Okay, I gonna

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Speaker 1: get it.

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Speaker 2: Then you're antique shopping for a friend who doesn't probably

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Speaker 2: want it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was the thing that made me laugh

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Speaker 2: was she was buying it was a really beautiful antique

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Speaker 2: baby dress.

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Speaker 1: But also that's haunted. So why would you? Why would you?

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Speaker 1: That's a very good boy. Lauren's gonna be like fangs.

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Speaker 1: Oh my daughter is haunted. Night. Thanks for the possession, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: She was never the same again after that. She just

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Speaker 1: keeps her head, just keeps spinning around. Her voice got

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Speaker 1: really deep. Yeah, so thanks for the nine dollars child's dress.

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Speaker 1: But oh it's a cute. Yeah, what else you know?

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Speaker 1: So many memories, so many great times.

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Speaker 2: White Castle we did uh no nor more food not

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Speaker 2: white Castle.

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Speaker 1: Oh we didn't find a white castle. We never got

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Speaker 1: to white Castle. Shit, I met Cracker Barrel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, which is amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's just as good as you all said it would be.

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Speaker 1: And then yesterday Vince was like, I guess I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the barbecue place that

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Speaker 1: Georgia wants to go to, but we go to Arby's.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't mistake. He's standing right over there. No sorry,

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Speaker 1: he's like he's walking away.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, he's driving the rental car away. Now we

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Speaker 2: have to take a train home.

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Speaker 1: Fuck.

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Speaker 2: I liked Arby's only because, oh yeah, there was a

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Speaker 2: picture and Vince actually I think put it on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Arby's now has a thing called the Meat Mountain. You

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Speaker 1: guys know about this.

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Speaker 2: This is real wooing like they've had it.

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Speaker 1: I know, I hope you have.

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Speaker 2: The Meat Mountain is an every Arby sandwich in just

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Speaker 2: two pieces of bread. So it's just like turkey roast,

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Speaker 2: beef brisket, a fried chicken patty, this this ham whatever,

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Speaker 2: and it's pork belly, this toll was it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so.

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Speaker 2: There was a little like a cardboard poster standing on

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Speaker 2: the counter and as I was standing there looking to

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Speaker 2: see what I was going to get, I looked down.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, and there was a

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Speaker 2: guy doing the exact same thing. And he goes, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, that scared of me, which is my favorite thing.

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Speaker 2: Just a stranger, and I just start laughing our asses

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Speaker 2: off at Arby's insane, like they're trying to kill us.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to kill us heart attack Mountain for real?

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Speaker 1: Hey, h what Happy Mothers stayed? Happy mother stay? That's nice.

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Speaker 1: Got a couple of moments. Oh man, a pregnant chick

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Speaker 1: let us touch her belly. That sounds creepy. What I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to say is we were after the show. We

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Speaker 1: were taking some photos with people, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't I didn't say anything, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's her. I'm going to let her mention that she's

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Speaker 1: pregnant because I don't say that. She goes, well, can

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Speaker 1: I pose with you? Guys? Touching my belly? And like

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Speaker 1: all I ever want is to touch pregnant. Like when

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Speaker 1: I see someone pregnant, I can't be Like sometimes I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. It's like so sweet to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like finally someone asked me to do it instead

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Speaker 1: of me going, can I have? That's weird.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the benefits of fame. That and really

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Speaker 2: great coke and when you combine them, oh my.

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Speaker 1: God, next level high. Have you guys ever tried getting

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Speaker 1: high when you're pregnant? It is next level. All the

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Speaker 1: mothers in the audience right now are like, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't like this show, or though I don't like what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, I don't like what they stand for.

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Speaker 1: No, they agreed. You think they're high as balls. My

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Speaker 1: mom told me she was. She had a glass of

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Speaker 1: whiskey in a tilin all every night when she was pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Very am now know She's like, I was stressed, I

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Speaker 1: had two other children, and then she dropped my brother.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's as if that's such a great combination. Like

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Speaker 2: in the seventies everyone did tail and all. I like

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Speaker 2: the sound of that so much. My mom used to

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Speaker 2: always be like, people make such a big deal about

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Speaker 2: pregnant women smoking. I smoked with both of you, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I had really bad asthma and

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Speaker 2: Laura's stupid, so what how about it's not a good idea.

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Speaker 1: We love our molles. They did a great job wonderful

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Speaker 1: families that we're both from. What wonderful family. So we

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Speaker 1: have to stand right next to each other.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we're in theaters so big that we literally cannot

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Speaker 2: hear each other speaking on stage.

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Speaker 1: It's super Uh, it's great for comedy. Do you think

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Speaker 1: in Franklin. What's it called Hamilton? Oops?

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Speaker 2: I flung everything in high school.

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Speaker 1: You just called it Franklin.

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Speaker 2: That was not for laugh But I bet they actually

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Speaker 2: in Hamilton they do say what did I just pull

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Speaker 2: out a cute.

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Speaker 1: Slump of my own hair? Yeah? Oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 1: so stressed out. How did that happen? She's shedding. Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: I need to take vitamins. No more Rby's for me.

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Speaker 2: She was on stage when the first symptom appeared. What

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Speaker 2: had that happened?

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Speaker 1: Everyone remembers it was ominus. Oh my god. Oh well, yep, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll bring you soup for whatever happens. Thank you, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. Oh we got we got wished Happy

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Speaker 1: Mother's Day too many times today in like a you

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Speaker 1: are mothering age, Yes, so congrat and we're both like

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Speaker 1: fuck no, this is me looking at my phone all

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Speaker 1: day long, people saying that, Oh, like when they tweet

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Speaker 1: things and staf like happy Mother's Day to my mom,

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Speaker 1: to my mom, I'm like, your fucking mom? Oh about us? Wait,

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Speaker 1: what what are we talking about? I met like strangers

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Speaker 1: at the hotel. Oh that's right, say, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like, we're not thank you. I just to thank you,

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Speaker 1: but you too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, can't you see from my really thick black

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Speaker 2: eyeliner that I'm no one's mother?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they thought Vince was our kid. Hair just

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Speaker 1: falling falling out.

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Speaker 2: I only called your mother because your hair is falling

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Speaker 2: out in clumps.

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Speaker 1: Good point, Good point. I posted a photo of my

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Speaker 1: mom today. My friend texted me and was like, can

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Speaker 1: I just fucking say I hate people who are like

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Speaker 1: post photos of their mom and like, love you so much,

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Speaker 1: thank you for everything you've done to me, Villa bit

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Speaker 1: And she's like, they're not Their moms are never going

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Speaker 1: to see it. They're doing it for everyone else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I literally just said I posted mine. Everyone can

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Speaker 1: see how hot my mom was when she's young. And

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Speaker 1: I just wrote if it's not one thing, it's her mother,

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Speaker 1: which my sister done. Yeah, And so it's like, how

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Speaker 1: fucking hot my mom is, and so am I? And

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Speaker 1: then so am I bathed because she was hot? Yeah

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Speaker 1: that's why I did it.

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Speaker 2: But then later you posted a picture of Ted Bundy

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Speaker 2: and his mother, which I liked a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of Happy Mother's Day.

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Speaker 2: I was looking for an ed Gean mom there's no.

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Speaker 1: They don't pose with each other. There was no ed geen. No,

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Speaker 1: they weren't allowed to touch and his mom.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of rules in that household.

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Speaker 1: Yeah about mother touching the skin bodies. There's a photo

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Speaker 1: of there's a skin bodies photo of that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: no mother and son.

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Speaker 2: Right anyhow, Anyways, fire exits are on either side of

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Speaker 2: the theater and four straight back where you entered.

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Speaker 1: Drink in this part. It's the last time we're going

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Speaker 1: to do it for a while. I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of coffee. I just realized and I'm talking like it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is so sad, I know, but great, it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be super fun. Let's not be sad yet, since

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Speaker 2: they paid money to come to a show. Yeah, you

341
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Speaker 2: came to see us, happy show face shows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna shine. Should we sit down? Let's sit down? Sure? Oh,

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Speaker 1: look at these haunted seats here haunted. Yeah, like a lady,

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Speaker 1: here's your here's your sweat towel.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Grant. I'm like dabbing sweat and then

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Speaker 2: just like pulling hair and here, Karen, are you okay? Nope,

347
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Speaker 2: I just I went on vacation to chare Noble. So

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Speaker 2: do you know I would totally go. I like want

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Speaker 2: to go there.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, an guess you can for like a limited

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Speaker 1: amount of time. They like time it. I'm not fucking kidding.

352
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 1: Oh they say time it.

353
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 2: Like they give you a tour, but it's like we're

354
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Speaker 2: gonna dip in for seven minutes, then we're gonna run away.

355
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like, here's where you're here's where it's

356
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: at right now, here's how much, here's how many like

357
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: you can go get a tour. But they're like, you're

358
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Speaker 1: literally taking five years off your life. Yeah, and I'm like,

359
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: who wants to live to be eighty five? I don't cared.

360
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,959
Speaker 2: Rather see Chernobyl cut it right down, honestly, tell everyone

361
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Speaker 2: on the rest home you went to Chernobyl.

362
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Speaker 1: I do hear there's interesting animals there, right, I have, yes,

363
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: the soils all fucked up, so these things are like

364
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: growing up. I mean, like a rabbit with a face

365
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Speaker 1: on the back of its head.

366
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Speaker 2: I'm I'm down for that. I'm crab rangoon in my teeth.

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Speaker 2: Crab rangoon. That's the word of the night.

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Speaker 1: Should I go first?

369
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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: This is my favorite murder'ry? Everybody thank you for coming,

371
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: so are live. Thank you for being you for coming,

372
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: because we fucking love doing this. It's so fun you.

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Speaker 2: No, I went first last time last night, so I

374
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: go first, right, yeah, I believe so.

375
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Speaker 1: You guys wouldn't know.

376
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: And we're back. They're back, I mean on the heels

377
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 2: of the end of our tour. Now we're doing a

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Speaker 2: live show recap.

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Speaker 1: What do you think twenty seventeen end of the tour

380
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: would have said to twenty twenty five stop doing this immediately, please,

381
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: I don't do it.

382
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Speaker 2: It's not worth it it it's too hard.

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00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: You're so much younger than God. I was fucking thirty

384
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Speaker 1: seven then touring. Yeah, now I'm old.

385
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 2: I mean, lots of time has passed. Yeah, a lot

386
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 2: of time has passed. Yeah, it's really funny. But I

387
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 2: was laughing because the idea where you know, at the

388
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 2: beginning of that there's like, of course, cheering and everything,

389
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: but then it like goes quiet, yeah a little, and

390
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: then I tell.

391
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: Everybody to drink it in.

392
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 2: And that idea where it's like we've basically manipulated our

393
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: audience to be like, well, are you going to be as.

394
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: Loud as the lowest anymore? I don't know it.

395
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: It's like there's no quiet moments anymore.

396
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Speaker 1: My favorite other ones where like my ears actually hurt. Yeah,

397
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of those on this tour. Yeah. People

398
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: really brought the screaming and applauding. That's right. It was

399
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: very nice. A lot of talk about outfits, a lot

400
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 1: of outfit issues, a lot of like clothing stuff.

401
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

402
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: I think so this last tour, I four vintage every

403
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: show except for one, which meant I was uncomfortable in

404
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: some way for every show, Like everything just fit a

405
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: little wrong.

406
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah it's vintage. Yeah, yeah, but it's worth it, I guess.

407
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're trying to do your thing, yeah,

408
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 2: that's your adjustment.

409
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had some gowns this tour.

410
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, like losing weight and being able

411
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 2: to fit into things and feel good about fitting into

412
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: things makes.

413
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Speaker 1: A huge difference.

414
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like many other things I was doing back then,

415
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 2: it was just like everything was like trying to cope

416
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: with this gigantic business that got dropped on our heads.

417
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: And so it was like now you're on tour. Now

418
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 2: you have to have outfits right for tour. Now you're

419
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 2: doing a show, but it's not a stand up show

420
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: like you're used to.

421
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: It's like a bigger deal and there's more happening. Yeah,

422
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 1: just like pictures taken so you better look fucking good.

423
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 2: Right, I mean that part of it where just like that,

424
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: it wasn't my world at all, and suddenly it's like, hey,

425
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: are you guys good with us posting these pictures? And

426
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: it's like no, like yeah, all of that.

427
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: Was a stressor for sure. Yeah. All right, let's listen

428
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: to Karen's story about Gary Heidnick.

429
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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I picked a man who I've been

430
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 2: reading about for several days. There's a lot of things

431
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 2: to read about him, and none of them are good.

432
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: And his name is Gary Hidnick. Yeah, they love him.

433
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: We always say it this.

434
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: Morning, like this is where the ushers are like, holy fuck,

435
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: what's going is this?

436
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: What is happening in there? They were cheering for a

437
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: serial killing.

438
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 2: Jesus, we got to get that acapella group back. This

439
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: shit is weird. All right, I'm gonna tell you a

440
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 2: little something about Gary. He was born in November of

441
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three. His parents divorced two years later, and

442
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: then he and his brother went to live with their

443
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: father and their new stepmother. Of course, the father is

444
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 2: a bum out, alcoholic, abusive. I don't think he physically

445
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: abused them, but he did the classic thing. Gary was

446
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: a bedwetter, and so to teach Gary to stop wedding

447
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 2: the bed, he took his sheets and put them out

448
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: the windows so the whole neighborhood could see, which also

449
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: Michael Lando's father.

450
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: Did I know? I thought I heard that recently.

451
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, little House on the Perry anyone, No, okay,

452
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: I'm the oldest person in the room.

453
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: Fine, fine, uh oh.

454
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: I told Georgia the other day we were we were

455
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: telling childhood stories. I also wed the bed when I

456
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: was a child. Yeah, we booked it.

457
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 1: It was it was lazy. It wasn't that. It wasn't that.

458
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: But I did it up until my mother, who was

459
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 2: a psychiatric nurse, tricked me by one day handing me

460
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: as I went to bed juiced. Oh, come here, the

461
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: doctor gave me something to give you, and she poured

462
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: cranberry juice, like that much cranberry juice into a little

463
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: glass and then she goes, drink this. It'll it'll stop

464
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: you from wedding the bed. And it fucking did.

465
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: Whoa trick?

466
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 2: Your fucking kids all up here. She she was a

467
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: mind game mom for sure. She had also very very

468
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: early on, like when I was she'd go, I can

469
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: always tell when you're lying, And then I believed her,

470
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: so I stopped lying to her because I was like, well,

471
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: she's gonna know because she.

472
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: Can tell when I'm lying. She was good, well done, Pat,

473
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: All right, Pat?

474
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also don't forget the smoking. Okay, No one's perfect, okay.

475
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: So uh, this is a this is a bit of

476
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: information about Gary Heidnick that I really enjoy in the

477
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: in the way that makes me a terrible person. When

478
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: he was a child, he fell out of a tree

479
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: and hit his head, of course classically, but it also

480
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: deformed his head this injury, so then he was made

481
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: fun of at school all the time because he had

482
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: a misshapen head. It seems sad now, but then when

483
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: I tell you he did now not going to be

484
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: sad anymore.

485
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: For Gary. I always try to stop my sympathy because

486
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, but then he's gonna kill a ton of

487
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: people and I'm going to be bombed. I felt bad for.

488
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: Him, but also it's a thing of like what I mean,

489
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: what it was. It was the fifties. How come we

490
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: fall out of a tree and then your head just

491
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: stays that way? Like, no doctors or anybody to help out,

492
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: just be like, okay, there you go, gear, stay low

493
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: to the ground from now on.

494
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: Okay. Uh.

495
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: So he ended up dropping out of school and joining

496
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: the army, where he trained as a medic and he

497
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: actually did very well on the army until he was

498
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: transferred to West Germany and he didn't like that assignment.

499
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: So there he began to develop odd behavior and he

500
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: was eventually diagnosed as having a schizoid personality disorder and

501
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: he was honorably discharged with full disability pension. So this

502
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: is like a thing that goes through his life where

503
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 2: no one's actually sure if he was working the system

504
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: or if he actually had schizophrenia of some kind or

505
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: or some kind of mental illness.

506
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Going to that head fucking shape and you know your answer, Yeah,

507
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: that's true. That could have been part of it.

508
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like, they're like, we don't know if

509
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: you're crazy, and he's like, but.

510
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: Did you see it? Dicks out? Sorry, let me take

511
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: my hat off, but there you go. Ah, yes, okay.

512
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: So he comes back to Philly and he decides to

513
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: be a nurse. Oh no, uh huh does he do

514
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: bad things? Karen? Well, yeah, but not in the hospital.

515
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: Okay, it seems like in the beginning he actually really

516
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: wanted to be a nurse and help people. He interned

517
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: at Philadelphia General Hospital for two years. That was in

518
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five. Give it up for Philadelphia General Hospital.

519
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: What a great place.

520
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty seven, he saved up enough money from

521
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: that disability pension payout to buy his own house and

522
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: he rented out the bottom two floors, so he was,

523
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: you know, a bit of a businessman. He also started

524
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: hanging out at the Elwyn Institute. Now this is a

525
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: theme that goes through Gary Heidnik's life, and it's very

526
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: disturbing because he goes into the medical profession.

527
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: He is a nurse.

528
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: He actually later tried to study to be a psychiatric nurse,

529
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: but he behaved so oddly and had such a bad

530
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: attitude he got kicked out of the program. But he

531
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: started to spend a lot of time at places that

532
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: housed the mentally challenged. So he was a predator from

533
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: day one. Okay, so, but he was starting to he

534
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: was starting to I guess his behavior was affecting his work,

535
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: whether it was a put on or not, so he

536
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: ended up getting also getting fired from the University hospital

537
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: where he had gotten a job. In nineteen seventy his mother, Ellen,

538
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: committed suicide, and from there his behavior got even stranger

539
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: and worse. In nineteen seventy one, he took a trip

540
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: to California, where he decided he needed to start his

541
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: own church. Oh you know the natural path nurse minister.

542
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very clear.

543
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: So when he came back to Philly, he started the

544
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: United Church of the Ministries of God. Nice long name.

545
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: He was the ordained minister. He had about fifty parishioners

546
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: and most of them were patients that he had met

547
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: at the Elwyn Institute.

548
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: Fill that room. Yeah, however you can. Yeah, what I

549
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: mean was that bad? It wasn't great, But no, I

550
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: just meant. I didn't mean that. I believe you. I

551
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: know what your intentions. Okay, you know what I mean.

552
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: And now I feel really so conscious about having their feet.

553
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: It's the whole It's real weird, like look at that

554
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: barefooted bitch. Yeah, I'm gonna saying all the wrong words,

555
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: all right, Okay, Yeah, quick reminder we didn't do any

556
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: of these things. Fucking Gary did them, Okay. In nineteen

557
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: seventy five, he opened a Merrill Lynch account in the

558
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: church's name. Uh, and he started investing in stocks.

559
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Oh no, now I feel really weird. Sucks stocks. Yeah,

560
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: oh sucks. I thought you said.

561
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: He was going to make that good sock money baby.

562
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well I was like, oh, he's crazy and how

563
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: fitning because I was just no, he's the.

564
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: Guy that invented gold toast. Oh my god, tube socks.

565
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: That's Gary, all right, the once a little ball in

566
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: the back.

567
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

568
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: He took fifteen hundred dollars and he eventually parlated into

569
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: a half a million dollars, like with good investments and

570
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, uh, moxie Okay. So he ends up

571
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: buying himself a used Rolls Royce, he bought a Cadillac,

572
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: he got a customized van because he's a creepy OLDPERV.

573
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: And then he bought himself a new house.

574
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: So during that same time, he also was in and

575
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: out of mental hospitals, and he was because he would

576
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: get in trouble with the police.

577
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: He would pull guns on people.

578
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: He's super aggressive, a lot of weapons charges and when

579
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: they would interact with him, they'd just be like, fifty

580
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: one fifty, you're out of your mind.

581
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So in nineteen.

582
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: Seventy eight he begins, this is going to get problematic everybody.

583
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy eight, he begins dating a mentally challenged

584
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: woman named Angeline, and they have a daughter together.

585
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: So one day he decides that they should go.

586
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, her name is Angelique, and they decide they

587
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: need to go visit Angelique's sister, Alberta, who is also

588
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: mentally challenged, and she lives in a home. So they go,

589
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 2: they visit her, they sign her out on a day pass,

590
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: and she never comes back, and so the staff goes

591
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: to investigate, and eventually they find Alberta chained up in

592
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: Gary's basement. Who Yeah, so she'd been raped and she

593
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: had contracted gonor rhea from So he's charged and he's

594
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: sentenced to three to seven years in prison.

595
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, it's nineteen seventy eight. This was back

596
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: when rape was not that big of a deal.

597
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty three, he's released from prison after

598
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: serving four years and four months, and he immediately signs up.

599
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: For a mail order bride service. Yeah, he's a romantic.

600
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: So he starts corresponding with a twenty two year old

601
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: Filipino woman named Betty Disto, and he tells her, of course,

602
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm a minister, and I have my own church here

603
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia. And eventually, in through these letters, he proposes

604
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: to her and he convinces her to fly to Philadelphia

605
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: U and marry him. And she does and everything's great

606
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: for a week.

607
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, not long enough to sustain a relationship.

608
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: No, I feel like you need to build in more time,

609
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: more than seven days. Yep.

610
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

611
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 2: But so it's what happens is Betty leaves the house

612
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 2: one day and when she comes back, she finds Gary

613
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: in bed with three women. Uh, and she freaks out

614
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: and is like, what the fuck is going on? And

615
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: then he's like, get in here, you old nut, Get

616
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: in here, Betty, you old stick in the mud. And

617
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: she's horrified, of course, and baffled. And so then that's

618
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: when the mask comes off and he starts to beat her.

619
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: He's becomes incredibly violent at all turns, and he basically

620
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: just starts constantly bringing home sex workers and mentally challenged

621
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: women to have sex with. She's just like, I'm in

622
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: the fucking nightmare world and a different country and she

623
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: doesn't she doesn't know anybody but him and his friends.

624
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 2: So she eventually turns to the philip Pino community in Philadelphia,

625
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: and it is just like, can someone please help me

626
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: because I'm like basically abandon here with this lunatic. And

627
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: so the people that she meets there say you have

628
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: to leave, and you just have to leave and don't

629
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: come back, and they kind of set up a plan

630
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: for her, and so she one day tells Gary, uh well,

631
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: she tries to confront him to say that she's had enough.

632
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: This is not the life that he had promised her,

633
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: and he beats the ship out of her and raves her.

634
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: So four days after that, she says, I'm going to

635
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: go out shopping super quick. I'll be right back, and

636
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: she fucking bails and doesn't come.

637
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: Back for her Yeah.

638
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: Right, And then she went into some Philadelphia Filipino American

639
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: underground and they took care of her and she never

640
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: saw her get Yeah. Pretty cool, good job, that's right,

641
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: So remember that if you're ever in trouble. Uh Okay,

642
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: two weeks later, the cops come and pick up Gary

643
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: for spousal rape, for domestic abuse, for in decent assault,

644
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 2: and for involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Unfortunately, the parole period

645
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: for the last for the last sexual offenses that he

646
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: had been in jail for had ended the day before. Yes,

647
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: so uh, Betty doesn't show up in court to testify

648
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: against him, and so all the charges are dropped.

649
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: And which is so insane that you're like, you're a

650
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: victim and it's not going to happen unless you come

651
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: and fucking reopen all the wounds you're working to get past, right, Like,

652
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: can't they just use hearsay?

653
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: No?

654
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: I was always saying that. I was like, that doesn't work.

655
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work now, Yeah, but it makes it

656
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: so hard.

657
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: Okay.

658
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: So this is basically a turning point in Gary Heidnan's life,

659
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: where her leaving him and the lack of control that

660
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: he had over her for doing that kind of set

661
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: him off in a major way. So this is nineteen

662
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: eighty six, It's Thanksgiving and he goes out to find

663
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: a sex worker, and that same night, Josephina Rivera had

664
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: gone out to try to make some money so she

665
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: could get so she could buy her family Thanksgiving dinner,

666
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: and so she's out its raining, it's cold night, and

667
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: a Cadillac pulls up and.

668
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: Makes her an offer.

669
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 2: She gets in and it's Gary and he drives her

670
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: to thirty five twenty North Marshall Street and when they

671
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: pull into the driveway, she sees the rolls voices and

672
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: she sees fancy cars and she's like, this is probably

673
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get everything done yeah and get out. So

674
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: she feels hopeful, you know, She's like, Okay, this is

675
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: this is gonna be good, and I'm gonna get my money.

676
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be able to get out of here. So

677
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: when they go up to his front door, he pulls

678
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: out this really weird looking key and what it is

679
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: is half a key, and she asks him what the

680
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: deal is and he says, the other half of the

681
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: key is already in the lock, so I am the

682
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: only person that can open this door because he's the

683
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 2: only person that has the other half.

684
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: Right, You're standing there and you're just like, okay, well, okay,

685
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens.

686
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, so they go into his house, they go upstairs,

687
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: they have sex, and when she is getting dressed again,

688
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: and she thinks she's about to leave. He comes up

689
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: from behind starts choking her, almost chokes her out.

690
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: She's begging him.

691
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: To stop, and he says, fine, get down on her

692
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: knees and put your hands behind your back. So he

693
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: handcuffs her wrists behind her back, and then he walks

694
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: her down into his basement. Yeah, I wish we had

695
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: a picture. Sometimes you have visuals dying to see what

696
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: he looks like.

697
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: Give me your arm so I can pinch it.

698
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: There's a picture of there's a picture of this basement,

699
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: and it's it's not good. It's not finished. He doesn't

700
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: have any shelving, it's not swept. It's the creepiest fucking

701
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: looking basement in the world. There's a dirty mattress on

702
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: the ground, and there's some plywood. The concrete on one

703
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: side of the basement has been pulled up and there's

704
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: plywood on the ground right. So he and there's a

705
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: bunch of exposed pipes and stuff. He takes her and

706
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: chains her to these exposed pipes. He sits on the

707
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: mattress so she's changed these pipes behind her. Then he

708
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 2: puts his head in her lap and goes to sleep. Yeah,

709
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: can you imagine this? Is not how I expected this

710
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: to go, and a almost creepier yes, yeah, because he's

711
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: just chilling out. So she then, of course eventually also

712
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: kind of nods off. When she wakes up, he's gone.

713
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: She's still chained to the wall, and she looks around

714
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: and she sees that the plywood has been moved and

715
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: there is a small pit in the center of the room.

716
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: So Gary comes back with some crackers and water, and

717
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: he explains he's got a plan, and his plan is

718
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: that he's going to get ten women pregnant so he

719
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: can start his own family.

720
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, uh huh.

721
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: He leaves again. Josephina realizes she's fucked. This is crazy,

722
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: this is bad, and she has to get out of there.

723
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: So she starts working on her handcuffs and she somehow

724
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: is able to loosen some kind of a tie that

725
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: she has.

726
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure how, but.

727
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: She basically is able to reach up and push open

728
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: the basement window and lift herself up, and she starts

729
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 2: screaming out of it. And she screams and screams and screams,

730
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: and nobody hears her except Gary. So Gary comes down

731
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: and he unchains her from the wall. And he says,

732
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: you're not ever going to get out of here, so

733
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: stop trying. And then he puts her in the pit

734
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: and it's barely big enough to hold a person like.

735
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: She's all super smashed up in there, and he puts

736
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: the plywood on top of her, and then he puts

737
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: like bags of soil on top of the plywood, so

738
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: she's totally weighted down and she's totally stuck in there.

739
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: And then as he leaves the basement, he turns it

740
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: on like the hard rock station and turns the radio

741
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: all the way up, so even if she screams, no

742
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: one's gonna be able to hear her over the music. Yes,

743
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 2: all right, So she's down in there, and then when

744
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: she wakes up, she wakes up to the sound of

745
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: a woman speaking and the sound of chains.

746
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: And what's happened is Gary. Gary lets her.

747
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: Out, and she stands up and she's all cramped up

748
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: from being down that fucking pit, and she sees that

749
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 2: Gary has a half naked, mentally challenged woman with him,

750
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: and he's basically brought another woman down into this basement,

751
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: and he introduces them because he is nothing if not

752
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: a mannered person. Her name is Sandy and he leaves,

753
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 2: and so Sandy tells Josephine her name is Sandra Lindsay

754
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: and that she met Gary at the Elwyn Institute. So

755
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: when he was going there, he was basically going there

756
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: and meeting patients and making, you know, making them believe

757
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: that he was their friend, and grooming them to basically

758
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 2: eventually be molested by him and convince them that he

759
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: was their boyfriend so he could have complete control over them.

760
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: So they are chained to the wall together, and the

761
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: next morning they're eating breakfast and uh Witch's crackers, and

762
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 2: they hear a knock at the front door of the

763
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: house and it turns out that Sandy's sister and her

764
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: cousins are looking for her because they when she didn't

765
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: come home the night before, they knew it was bad,

766
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 2: and so they're out on the street. They had found

767
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: a friend of Sandy's name Tony, that they knew she

768
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 2: hung out with a lot, and they went to Tony

769
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: and they were like, who else do you know that

770
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: Sandy knows? And they were like, we know this guy

771
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: named Gary.

772
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: She's the first girl. Sorry, Sandy was the second girl.

773
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: Josephina is the first girl, and Josephina is, uh, well,

774
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: you'll see she's She's in it the whole time, and

775
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 2: it's pretty amazing. So Sandy, uh. So, Tony gives Sandy's

776
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: cousins and sister Gary's address and they come and knock

777
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: on the door, but Gary just doesn't answer it. And

778
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 2: then when they leave, he comes downstairs and he has

779
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 2: Sandy write to letters to her mother saying I'm fine.

780
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: I ran away, don't worry about me. I'll get a

781
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: hold of you later.

782
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: So then he tells the girls that his plan is

783
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: he's going to drive into New York and send the

784
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 2: letters from New York. So they see that the post

785
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: mark is from New York and they believe that she

786
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: ran away. Well, of course, when Sandy's mother gets these letters,

787
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: she's like, no, she's never written a letter like this

788
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: in her life. This is not this is there's something

789
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: even more wrong here. But they take it to the

790
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: police and the police will not listen. They are like,

791
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: this is a runaway. She's an adult. It's fine, don't

792
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: you know. This is just somebody that didn't want to

793
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: live with you anymore.

794
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 1: She's a runaway. They can't get the police to help.

795
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: These are all.

796
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: Also, I guess I should say all these people are

797
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 2: black except for Gary Heidnik So I think that Also

798
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: we had a big, a big part of it. Was

799
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: there this out handed dismissal of like, oh, well, don't

800
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: worry about them. You know they're they're doing what they

801
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: want a lot of people accused of being prostitutes when

802
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: they're not, or sex workers when they're not. Really really

803
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: shitty treatment. Okay, so uh so, all right, that was

804
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: that whole page. I hand wrote this, Okay, but thanks, Yeah,

805
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: that's all I wanted a little bit of credit for

806
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 2: my handwriting.

807
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

808
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: So now it's three days before Christmas and Gary picks

809
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: up a girl named Lisa Thomas as she's walking to

810
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: her friend's house.

811
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: She's nineteen years old.

812
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: She is not a sex worker, she's not mentally challenged,

813
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 2: but she is impressed by his car and his generosity.

814
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: He offers to take her to dinner. He's very sweet

815
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: to her.

816
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: Once she's in the car, she found she finds that

817
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: he's very charming, and he tries to get her to

818
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: go to Atlantic City with him, and she said, I

819
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 2: can I don't even have.

820
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: Good clothes on.

821
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: He pulls out a fifty dollars bill and says, you

822
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: can go buy some new clothes right now. And so

823
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: she gets caught up and you know this guy, you know,

824
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: treating her so well, and at one point he says,

825
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: come back to my house. We'll drink some wine and

826
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: watch movies. So they do that, and while while there,

827
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: she drinks a bunch of wine and falls asleep on

828
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: his couch. When she wakes up, he's raping her. When

829
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: he finishes, she gets up and is putting her clothes on,

830
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: and he does the thing where he strangles her from

831
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: behind and gets her on her knees and then handcuffs her.

832
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: So then he brings her down into the basement and

833
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: he takes the plywood and Lisa. He pulls the plywood

834
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 2: off the pit, and Lisa sees that Josephina and Sandy

835
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: are down in the pit, which I can when I

836
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: was reading that part of just like can you fucking

837
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: imagine that?

838
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 1: Like there's people.

839
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: This basement's creepy enough, and then it's like, oh, yeah,

840
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 2: you guys move, there's yeah, there's a bunch of people

841
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: down here and they haven't been able to get out.

842
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, all right.

843
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: Ten days later he comes home with Deborah Dudley. Now

844
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: Deborah Dudley I believe is mentally challenged, but she fights

845
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: him the entire time she's there, so she starts, Yeah,

846
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: so here's the thing though, he has it so and

847
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 2: he eventually starts manipulating all of them. So if Deborah

848
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: Dudley's fighting with him, he beats her, and then he'll

849
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: beat the other girls for her having fought him. So

850
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: then they start trying to fight her to get her

851
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: to stop fighting him because everybody's getting beaten.

852
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: He takes a big like.

853
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: Two by four and beats the shit out of all

854
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: of them and they have to watch it. Then he

855
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 2: starts he makes them have sex with each other, and

856
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: he just stands there and watches. So it's just this

857
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: degradation and this beating and mind fucks and mind fucking

858
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: so that they are all basically trying to get him

859
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: to treat them better. And so it's that thing of

860
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: he'll pick one to not beat and he'll be like,

861
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 2: i'll leave you with the stick. I'm leaving. You're in charge.

862
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: Anyone misbehaves, you beat them. Then when he would come back,

863
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: if nobody had been beaten, they'd all get beaten because.

864
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: Somebody should have been beaten while he was. It's all that.

865
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: Kind of shit's fucked up happening stuff down there, some

866
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: fucked up happening stuff.

867
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: That's what it's called him with textbooks, all right. So on.

868
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: Two weeks later after that, he brings eighteen year old

869
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: sex worker Jacqueline Haskins into the basement. And then and

870
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: then on January eighteenth, Sandra gets caught the second girl.

871
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: She gets caught trying to move the plywood off the

872
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: pit because they're down. He puts them in the pit altogether.

873
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: So he's dug it out a little bit. It's getting

874
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger. He comes down and digs it makes

875
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: them watch him dig it while they eat crackers or whatever.

876
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 2: Sometimes he'll bring them really nice food, like he one

877
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: day brings them just a huge Chinese food meal and champagne.

878
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: So it's just like or it's just or nothing, you know,

879
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 2: totally mind fucking them. So Sander gets caught trying to

880
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 2: move the plywood off, and so Gary hangs her by

881
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: the wrist and like one handcuff from the ceiling pipe. Dude.

882
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 2: He leaves her there for a couple of days. So

883
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: the other girls are like, she's getting sick. There's something

884
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: wrong with her. You have to take her down, and

885
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: he's like, no, she's faking. I'm not going to fall

886
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: for it. He's, of course getting increasingly paranoid. He believes

887
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: they're all plotting against him at all times. He's constantly

888
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: ready for them to try to attack him, and he did.

889
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: Super super fucked up.

890
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: He would do this thing where he would when he

891
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: thought that there was a chance that they were plotting

892
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: against him, he would shame them up and then he

893
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:03,240
Speaker 2: would try to shove a screwdriver in their ears because

894
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: he thought if they were deaf, that they couldn't plan

895
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: anything against them. Oh, no, should we take a quick break.

896
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: I can sing some songs from Oliver if you want

897
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 2: me to. I was in it when I was ten.

898
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: Do you know the words to the Franklin musical that

899
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: you don't?

900
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: I do? Yeah? Sing a little Franklin for us? Okay.

901
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: Gary believes that Sandra is pregnant, and that's why that's

902
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 2: why he is.

903
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: I don't know.

904
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 2: She gets sickly, she's lethargic, she is a fever. She

905
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: starts throwing up. He says, the only reason she's throwing

906
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: up is because she's pregnant, right, Eventually she loses consciousness.

907
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: When he comes back, the girls are like, you have

908
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: to let her down, and he lets her down and

909
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: she just drops to the ground and he kicks her

910
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 2: into the pit. And so when she gets when he

911
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: takes her into the pit, all the other girls realize,

912
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: now she's dead. No, yeah, this is so horrifying. It's

913
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: really bad. Right yeah, now that's the point, right.

914
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, no, no, no. Nobody's surprised, except for the

915
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: one person who was like, my friend can't come. Do

916
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: you want to come? I've never heard of the podcast,

917
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: I'll come.

918
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: Oh.

919
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: Also, my little cousin is here. Yeah, and the rest

920
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: of my family is like really nice, normal people, and

921
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: she's never heard the podcast, and she's going to be like, mom,

922
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: George's cousin, I think there's something wrong with Georgia. Do

923
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: you think she's gonna tell on you? She can rat

924
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:36,959
Speaker 1: you out. Yeah.

925
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friend Molly's here and she brought her mom.

926
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, having no she had no idea what

927
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: was going on, so her.

928
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: Baby so sorry. Oh you know what I once did

929
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: call Jillian's mom when she was in high school, and

930
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 1: I was like, she's got some slutty pictures up on Facebook.

931
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: You should say something you get back at me. That's right,

932
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: she's gonna fucking sorry Gelian, that was me.

933
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: But you're too young. Yeah for cleav it. I like

934
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: that you narked her out for that. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay,

935
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: save it for college.

936
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, turn the page. Sorry, no, no interrupting, Please don't be.

937
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: I think we needed it.

938
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: So basically, he takes the body upstairs and I mean,

939
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: can we just can it get worse?

940
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: Yes? It can.

941
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: The girls are don't all down in the pit together,

942
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: and then they hear a power saw. She didn't do it,

943
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: So in the next couple of days they start to

944
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: smell a terrible smell. Of course, not just them down

945
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: in the basement, but the whole fucking neighborhood, And so

946
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: the neighbors end up calling the police. And when a

947
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 2: patrolman goes by the house nothing, he says, oh, I

948
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 2: just burned a roast, And the Patrolman's like, well, high five, buddy,

949
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: I'll talk to you later and he leaves. Yep, So

950
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 2: the paranoid is getting worse. Deborah Dudley is continuing to

951
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: defy him. So now he goes into a whole new

952
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: level where he's starting to because they're all wearing chains,

953
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: and the chains are connected to each other.

954
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: So he strips.

955
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: An extension cord, he strips off the insulation and starts

956
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 2: electrocuting the chains.

957
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets really bad.

958
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: And when the next time Debora Dudley defies him, he

959
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: takes her upstairs and when she comes back down, she's

960
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: scared out of her mind, and the girls finally get

961
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 2: her to say what is going on? And he took

962
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 2: her up into the kitchen and then he took a

963
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: lid off the pot and she looked inside, and Sandra's

964
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: head was inside. No, no, no, yes, we're doing this.

965
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: Stay with me? Do you not fucking leave me? At

966
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: this point, we all agreed that we were doing this.

967
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: God damn it.

968
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 2: All right, So eventually, basically Debora Dudley loses her shit

969
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: and is like what the fuck you know whatever? And

970
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: so he gets so mad at her because she's fighting

971
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: him so hard. He puts her in the pit and

972
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: he puts water in it and then electrocutes her and

973
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 2: he ends up killing her in that pit. Okay, So

974
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: now Josephina, who this whole time has been trying to

975
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 2: make a plan.

976
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: She keeps she the whole time.

977
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 2: She's like, Okay, I'm going to stay on this guy's

978
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: good side. So when it would be the thing of

979
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 2: like you get the stick and you have to beat

980
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: the girls, she would play along with him just enough

981
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 2: so that he would believe her, because she was like,

982
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 2: I have to win his trust. That's the only way

983
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to get out of here, and anyone's going

984
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: to get out of here because this guy's fucking out

985
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: of his mind. So she's trying to play him like

986
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: the entire your time that way. So once he kills

987
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: the second girl, Deborah, she's like, okay, like I have

988
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: to you know, I have to really do something. So

989
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: she she's really trying to like pretend that, you know,

990
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 2: like play the wife part, really kisses ass, really like

991
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: really act like she hates the girls and wants to

992
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: do anything against them for him.

993
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: So finally.

994
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: She uh, once Debbie dies, he makes just a phenis

995
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: sign of paper that says I killed Debbie.

996
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: I'm responsible for her death.

997
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: It makes her sign it, and then once she signs that,

998
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 2: he believes that he has her completely under control because

999
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: if she goes to the police.

1000
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: She's the one that's going to get arrested for that crime. Come.

1001
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: So she's like, sounds good to me.

1002
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a great plan, Gary, super smart. I bet

1003
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: that's what's gonna happen. So she signs up paper and

1004
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 2: then on March twenty fourth, he convinces him to let

1005
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: her leave and visit her family, and in return for

1006
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: doing that, she promises that she'll bring him back a

1007
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: new girl. Oh yeah, And so he's like, that sounds great.

1008
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: Plus I have the paper you signed, so this is

1009
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: this is a lock. Everything's awesome. He drops her off

1010
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: at her apartment and says, I'll wait for you at

1011
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: the gas station. She runs up into her apartment. Her

1012
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 2: boyfriend's sitting there. She's been missing for.

1013
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: Four fucking months months months. She runs in. She's screaming.

1014
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: She's like, I been chained up in a basement, this

1015
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 2: fucking lunatic or whatever. And the boyfriend's like, you're crazy.

1016
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 2: Are you on drug? She got out, Swear to God,

1017
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: Swear to god. She couldn't look like like, no, she

1018
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: probably didn't look great, but she ends up showing him

1019
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 2: all of her scars and her where that like the

1020
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: huge wounds where the chains have been and he's like,

1021
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 2: oh shit.

1022
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: So she broke up with him after what the fuck?

1023
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: Or maybe their love got even deeper and stronger, and

1024
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: he was like, I'll never doubt you again.

1025
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: Baby.

1026
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: There we don't know. What we do know is that

1027
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: he called the cops. When the cops show up, they're like,

1028
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 2: you're crazy and yelling, and then she's like, how about

1029
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 2: you take a look at these huge gouge marks everywhere

1030
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 2: on my body?

1031
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: And they were like, holy shit. And so they go

1032
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: to the gas station.

1033
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: Gary's just chilling out in his Cadillac waiting for his

1034
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 2: lady to come back, and they arrest him, and then

1035
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: two officers go to the house. Yeah, so of course

1036
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: they can't get into the magical front door.

1037
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: That did work. He was right about that.

1038
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I mean, it's kind of a great idea.

1039
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: It's pretty I'm ever thought about before.

1040
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: Fuck.

1041
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: So, just before five am on March twenty seventh, nineteen

1042
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: eighty seven, the police arrive at Gary's house. They break

1043
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: down that front door, and they go down into the basement,

1044
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 2: just like Saphenas said they needed to. And down in

1045
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: the basement they find Jacqueline Askins. They find Lisa Thomas.

1046
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: They're both naked and chained to the ceiling pipe. They

1047
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: free them and then Lisa points to the plywood and oh, sorry,

1048
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: there was an skipped apart. He had gotten another girl,

1049
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: another sex worker named Agnes. Agnes was in the pit,

1050
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: so they pulled the plywood off and she was down

1051
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: in the water in the pit.

1052
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: Then they go into the kitchen. Uh uh, stay out

1053
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: of the kitchen. Yeah, I mean no, they gotta go.

1054
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: That's the thing. You gotta go in the kitchen.

1055
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: Now, in the kitchen, they find what looks like human

1056
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 2: ribs in the oven, and when they open the freezer

1057
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: they find a human forearm. What yes, So basically he's arrested.

1058
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: He is tried and convicted on eighteen charges. Two counts

1059
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 2: of first degree murder, five counts of rape, six counts

1060
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: of kidnapping, four counts.

1061
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: Of aggravated assault.

1062
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 2: His he tried to claim that Josephina was his accomplice,

1063
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: and this amazing judge I believe her name was Judge Abraham,

1064
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 2: when he tried to argue that his You you have

1065
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: to read about the story. His defense lawyer is such

1066
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 2: a scumbag. Like everything he says is the grossest thing

1067
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: you've ever read. And so one of his his attempts

1068
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 2: at a defense was that it was Josephina's idea yea,

1069
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: and that he had tried to hit Josephina was his accomplice.

1070
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: And the judge was like, because he was.

1071
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 2: Trying to plead insanity, not guilty by the reason of insanity.

1072
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 2: And the judge was like, well, then if you were

1073
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: smart enough to get an accomplice, you're not insane.

1074
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: And then they're like, oh no, no, then she's.

1075
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: Not okay, get that cancel, that cancel, that cancel. So yeah,

1076
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 2: it it so insane. Oh and then this so the

1077
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: the the final blow against the defense and by the prosecution.

1078
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: It's just so amazing is they call Robert Kirkpatrick to

1079
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 2: the stand and that's Gary Heidnick's broker at Merrill Lynch.

1080
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: What his sockbroker, yep. And they get that sockbroker on

1081
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: the stand and that.

1082
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: Guy says, he testifies that Gary was an astute investor

1083
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: who knew exactly what he was doing.

1084
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: So there goes the insanity defense. Yeah, that's right. He

1085
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: gets convicted.

1086
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: He's sentenced to death and on July sixth, nineteen ninety nine.

1087
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 2: He's executed by lethal injection, and.

1088
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean.

1089
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 2: I kind of like this. No one came to claim

1090
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: the body. No, they're like, no thanks. And if any

1091
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: of that sounded familiar to you, Gary Heidnick's crimes and

1092
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: the basement scene was the inspiration for Buffalo Bill in

1093
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 2: Silence of the Land, yay, that's where that that's where

1094
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: that came from. I just gave myself chills. That was weird.

1095
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? As soon as you were like basement pit,

1096
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: loud music, fucking mister, I got your dog, I'd fuck

1097
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: me the whole nine yards.

1098
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: Catherine Martin, you're safe, I remembers that, are we This

1099
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: isn't proper, it's not it's not right anything we're doing. No. No.

1100
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: So that's the story of Gary Heidnik Philadelphia. That's your guy.

1101
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, so awful, so awful, so bad, horrible, disgusting.

1102
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: Well, now that's my turn.

1103
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put my shoes back on, of course, because

1104
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: I just feel creepy.

1105
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: So well, you need some shoes. Feel creepy?

1106
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 2: Do you feel like do your your feet feel hot

1107
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 2: with the eyes on your feet?

1108
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: Well, just knowing that these could easily go on Wiki

1109
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: feet these where there already are photos on my feet? No,

1110
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: what yep? Do you guys know about Wiki feet?

1111
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 2: You know how if you put you put like an

1112
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 2: actor and actress that's usually just an actress, an actress's

1113
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 2: name into Google it. If you put the name in

1114
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: you like, one of the things that will come up

1115
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: underneath it is that person's name.

1116
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: So it's like Deborah Messing.

1117
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 2: One of the first things that will come up underneath

1118
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: is the suggestion is Debora Messing feet?

1119
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't know that there's so many foot

1120
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: fetishists out there. Well, there's a Wikipedia for feet and

1121
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: like any if, like Deborah Messing was at the beach,

1122
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: it'll just be like a close up of the photo

1123
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: of her feet and then they grade them and like

1124
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: they comment on them and like great toes, like or

1125
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: she needs a manicure, but otherwise I like her arch

1126
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: my fucking kidding, Wow, So check that out when you

1127
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: get home.

1128
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: I better stay covered up for the rest of my

1129
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 2: life because I have Fred Flintstone feed Like you would

1130
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: not believe.

1131
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm dying to look you up on that right now,

1132
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: let's get it up on mom it simply cannot be Okay,

1133
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: we're back, Karen. Any updates. There are some updates.

1134
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 2: So in that story, there were small but conflicting details

1135
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 2: about how Josephina escaped, So it depends on what source

1136
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 2: you read. On oxygen dot com, it says that she

1137
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 2: managed to gain Heidnik's trust and that led him to

1138
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: bringing her on errands and rewarding her with a phone call,

1139
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 2: which then they say she then used to call the police.

1140
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: But then there's other outlets like People Magazine, you know,

1141
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 2: major outlets that say she escaped him and flagged down

1142
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 2: a police officer. The Philadelphia Inquirer, meanwhile, kind of blends

1143
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: the two versions, saying she won his trust, was given

1144
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 2: twenty five minutes of freedom to see her family, but

1145
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: then ran to a payphone as soon as he dropped

1146
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,439
Speaker 2: her off for a visit, and that's when she dialed

1147
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: nine to one one.

1148
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: But we see this happen.

1149
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 2: All the time though, in like there are outlets that

1150
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 2: get the information from other outlets, trusting that source right

1151
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: and when that original source was in chrest.

1152
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: I think it's all convoluted.

1153
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 2: And we are that source sometimes that's giving me incorrect information.

1154
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 2: So survivors Jacqueline Askins, Lisa Thomas, and Agnes Adams originally

1155
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 2: wanted to press charges against both Gary Heidnik and Josephina

1156
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: because they felt like Josephina had stepped into the role

1157
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 2: of the trusted captive and she didn't do anything to

1158
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 2: help them, But the DA declined a prosecutor and explained

1159
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 2: Josephina was forced to participate in crimes under extreme duress

1160
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 2: and noting ultimately that she saved them.

1161
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, so those are the updates.

1162
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: I think it's like that's it's good context too in

1163
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 2: talking about that story, because that is what happens to

1164
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: It's like she was a victim, just like the other victims,

1165
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: but then she was being laid by this insane person.

1166
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she had to play her own game right

1167
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: to survive. Yeah, horrible situation, definitely.

1168
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: Okay, now let's get into Georgia's story about Edward Gingdrick.

1169
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: All right, well, my murder. There's only one person who

1170
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: gets murdered, so it's a little more lighthearted. Okay, nice,

1171
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: we'll end on a note. Glad we're ending on this one.

1172
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: Uh all right, this is the story of the only

1173
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: known case of homicide committed by an Amish man, Edward

1174
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: gender Rich. We'd say that second part again, Edward Gingrich. Oh,

1175
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: Edward Jewish Gingrich? Got it Gingrich? And he's not Jewish, Okay,

1176
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: he's Amish, Amish, he's an Amish man. Yeah, okay, so

1177
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: picture an Amish guy. Okay, kind of hot, just saying.

1178
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: It's kind of a Vigo Mortensen in witness situation.

1179
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you see me pause up here because I

1180
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: was like, you shouldn't say that, then said it anyways,

1181
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 1: got to okay. He is born on August eighteenth, nineteen

1182
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: sixty three, in an Amish family from Rockdale Township, Crawford County, Pennsylvania.

1183
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: He was said to have been somewhat of a rebel

1184
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: in the Amish way of life from an early age,

1185
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: which he chewed gum. I don't know what's a rebel.

1186
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: He kicked his rock one time. Yeah, he didn't ork

1187
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: for three hours one day. He put brown sugar on

1188
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: his oat mail. Whoa Edward is? Frock and roll?

1189
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: God, I'm so into Edward. He wears his hat at askew.

1190
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: His family reasoned that, and he was so he was

1191
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: a rebel. He was kind of crazy, like you know,

1192
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: wild and his family was like, well, if we get

1193
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: an unwaveringly faithful woman to marry him, she'll be a

1194
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: good influence. And so they married him off December second,

1195
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. He's married to an Amish woman named Katie,

1196
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: and people in their community are like, Katie, don't do that.

1197
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: They were like a bunch of people were like, I

1198
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: don't fucking believe in this, huh, which is like you

1199
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: have to get married. And they were still like because

1200
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: they thought he was a greed. I think that they

1201
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,479
Speaker 1: were worried. Yes, okay, they were apprehensive. That's not my word.

1202
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: I don't say that. They had three kids, Danny, Enos

1203
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: and Mary, and he was starting to show signs of

1204
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 1: behavioral changes after the marriage, and they became more and

1205
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: more noticeable. By July of eighty eight, he lost a

1206
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: ton of weight, became super depressed, and he spent a

1207
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: lot of time in the wood shop, and he got

1208
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: more and more interested in the machinery of the Amish people,

1209
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 1: but also with interacting with non Amish people. Everyone's known

1210
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: as the English. Did you know that?

1211
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 2: No?

1212
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: Like, everyone here is the English unless you're Amish.

1213
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god?

1214
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: Is there? They're like my first day of Rumspringer, I'm

1215
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:16,919
Speaker 1: gonna go to a murder podcast. Someone.

1216
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 2: There's like a group of kids that are having the

1217
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 2: most awesome rumps breed right now. They're just ugging like

1218
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 2: we're going to go from a barn to a murder podcast.

1219
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 2: And they were like, shit, she's reading our only hometown murder.

1220
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: Ah. Oh, that's the one. I was gonna do him. Okay.

1221
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: So while he was working in the woodshop meeting English people,

1222
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: he befriended a non Amish man named David Lindsay, who

1223
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,680
Speaker 1: told him that unless he renounced his Amish faith and

1224
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,560
Speaker 1: became a born again Christian but which he was, he

1225
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: would go to Hell.

1226
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 2: I dated one of those, uh uh. I swear to

1227
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 2: God that he was like in college, the first guy

1228
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 2: dated trick to me, he was. We called him the

1229
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: secret born again Christian because he was in the theater

1230
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: department and he never talked about religion at all until

1231
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 2: he and I started dating.

1232
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: Dating, and he.

1233
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: Was like, Karen, I just need you to say these

1234
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 2: seven words. I was like, I'm already Catholic, Like I

1235
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 2: think Jesus has got his eye on me.

1236
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 1: I don't need your bullshit. Wow. Yeah, did you dump him. No,

1237
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: he don't me man, I would have made up my

1238
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: mission to corrupt him and then be like okay, but bye,

1239
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: I wish I could have. I was like, huh what

1240
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: the Lord? Who do do?

1241
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 2: Do?

1242
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: Okay Christian? Then oh? And also that he would go

1243
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: to Helen then he was, and that led him to

1244
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: believe he was being confined and held captive by his

1245
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: wife Katie. So Edward's mental state it continues to deteriorate.

1246
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: He begins hallucinating and has a psycho break that scared

1247
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 1: his entire community, but seriously starts ripping his hair out,

1248
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:10,640
Speaker 1: claiming that's it's on fire. It's hair, his hair, That's

1249
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: what's happening with my hair? Oh, we all forgot to

1250
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: mention your hair is on fire.

1251
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you tell me? It's just a very small

1252
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 2: smoldering fire. It didn't look that bad. We let it

1253
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 2: o God, it's kind of cute. We thought it was

1254
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 2: your look. That's the new look, smothering fire.

1255
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: Sorry, hair fires. Okay. So Katie found her husband in

1256
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: their bedroom spitting at the ceiling and mumbling to himself.

1257
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: And she was like, sorry, isn't spitting at the ceiling

1258
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 2: spitting at yourselves.

1259
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: That is a good That is a good point unless

1260
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 1: he was really good at spitting. Yeah, unless you go

1261
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: playing out the side. No, no, still when it works okay,

1262
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: and that at that point she was like, that's it.

1263
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: Can't She couldn't. That was the limit and limit. She's like,

1264
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: pull your hair, nuts on fire, you're the devil.

1265
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,480
Speaker 2: Yes, spinning on the fucking see it out.

1266
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 1: And then they do this thing that almost people don't

1267
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: fucking do. She's like, call nine one one. This is wow.

1268
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: She's like, I can't get this. How did they do that?

1269
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: They send a cow out into the street or something,

1270
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: says call nine one one on it.

1271
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 2: They light a candle, put it on a cow's back,

1272
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 2: push it into the road.

1273
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 1: Send the nine one one cow. Listener's fucked. We are screwed.

1274
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I would say that we're going to get

1275
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot of mean emails, but no one's listening down.

1276
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: I can't say shit to us. Oh wow, this is

1277
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: I feel free, Like for the first time on this podcast,

1278
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: it feel so free. Shit on whoever I want. Stephen,

1279
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: don't cut this, Stephen, leave it in and turn it

1280
01:11:58,960 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: up louder.

1281
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 2: The nine Missed People it was a big deal.

1282
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so he uh he, so he's also okay. Eventually,

1283
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,440
Speaker 1: uh so Edward gets treated as a psychiatric hospital in Jamestown,

1284
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: New York, where he's diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, and

1285
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 1: he's given medication, of course, and it started to help

1286
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: his hallucinations. But when he got home, he was like,

1287
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: this is putting me in a zombie state. And he

1288
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 1: didn't like it. So he did what everyone does at

1289
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: some point in their medication therapy. Is he's like, I'm good.

1290
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 1: Quit Yeah, you know, yeah, don't do that. But but

1291
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to get off, like, just

1292
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: just don't quit. We're both doctors. We should have said

1293
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: that at.

1294
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 2: The beginning of this Oh My God podcast that we

1295
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 2: should said medical doctors.

1296
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: But his wife was encouraging him to stop as well,

1297
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: because she was a traditional Amish person and she, you know,

1298
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: wanted she just wanted things to be better. Yeah, yeah,

1299
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 1: she okay, but his state of mind continued to decrease.

1300
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: He started saying he was the devil. And then on

1301
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: Marching nineteen thirty three, Katie and Edward, what did I say,

1302
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: thirty three? Nope?

1303
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 2: But is it went back in time in the Amish

1304
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 2: time machine, which is a pile of hay.

1305
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 1: That isn't I had first. That isn't right, and that's

1306
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: not what I wrote. Oh it's nineteen ninety three, right, okay.

1307
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: So Edward and Katie are having an argument and she

1308
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: starts getting worried about it and his temper, and she

1309
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: sends their six year old son to run and get help,

1310
01:13:55,680 --> 01:14:00,440
Speaker 1: but the two younger kids stay behind. At that point,

1311
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: he runs and gets his uncle. His uncle goes back

1312
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 1: to the house and by then Katie was long dead.

1313
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: Oh it started that. He punched Katie in the face,

1314
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: knocking her to the ground. Then he beat her to death.

1315
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Sorry he had with his boots. He

1316
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: stumped on her skull until it was left unrecognizable. And

1317
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,800
Speaker 1: then it gets worse. Oh, he removed so she's dead.

1318
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: He removes all her internal organs. Oh shit, places them

1319
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: in a neat pile. How Karen's gone bullshit on this?

1320
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 2: He said, no fucking way, show me a neat pile

1321
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 2: of large intestines.

1322
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: I'll give you twenty five dollars. That's bullshit. I'm sorry, No,

1323
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: I talk to you. I love it.

1324
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 2: No, I'm glad that you said that, okay, because I hadn't.

1325
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: Thought of it. And as soon as she said it

1326
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, oh no, someone just say that

1327
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 1: to make it seem even worse. Okay. So and he

1328
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: did all this while his two young children were in

1329
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:17,759
Speaker 1: the house.

1330
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 2: No.

1331
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 1: No, And then he said for some reason later that

1332
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 1: for some reason he thought they could save her. So

1333
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: he was like trying to keep her organs to like

1334
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: in a clean pile, to like save her later.

1335
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 2: So he was just totally psychotic break not in the

1336
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 2: real world anyway.

1337
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: So they run and call nine to one one and

1338
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 1: they found the amties arrived and found a scene so

1339
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 1: horrific that one of the ampties immediate left to vomit. Yeah,

1340
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 1: and Edward was gone, and so were the kids. But

1341
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 1: don't worry. They found him later that day walking in

1342
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: the country road with his kids, and the kids were fine, okay.

1343
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: Edward's arrested pleads insanity. The defense argues that Edward was

1344
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: affected by the fumes he inhaled accidentally in the workroom

1345
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: of the wood place, the woodhouse, the workroom, what do

1346
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: you call it, the wood room, the woodroom, It doesn't

1347
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 1: sound right. The work would the wood oh, the wood workroom,

1348
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:27,799
Speaker 1: the woodworking room, the wood working room. There it is Stephen,

1349
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: Stephen speed that whole part up play the holding backwards Stephen.

1350
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:39,599
Speaker 1: So they're saying like he was in an unventilated room

1351
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: where they were using solvents all the time, and he

1352
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: went out of his mind because of that. But it

1353
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: sounded like a lot of stuff was saying that before that.

1354
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: He was, you know, it was almost to the gum.

1355
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: It's the perfect the perfect storm. Yeah, there was already

1356
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: stuff happening, right, Okay, So the Amish community shuns him

1357
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: at this point, which is like the severest sin is

1358
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,759
Speaker 1: strength from the Amish ways without repenting. So he's punished

1359
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: with excommunication, which is like fucking huge. While in prison,

1360
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: Edward says he starts following a new religion and signs

1361
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 1: a document saying he's an evangelical Christian. So maybe he

1362
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: met your ex wifeend. Yeah, he's probably good friends with him.

1363
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 2: So okay, my dumb one week college boyfriend pops up

1364
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 2: from the side. I just need you to say seven words, Edward.

1365
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 1: Uh, I don't know where. Oh, he's tried. He's sound

1366
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but mentally ill quote, and he

1367
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 1: sentenced to a term of two to five and a

1368
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: half years was this Amish court, which means he was

1369
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:56,799
Speaker 1: eligible for parole by a nineteen ninety five. He's denied

1370
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: his first bid, but he is granted his second.

1371
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 2: So sorry, because it was not guilty by reason of insanity,

1372
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 2: then he only has to Okay, Yeah, but they don't

1373
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 2: put him in a mental hospital.

1374
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,880
Speaker 1: They put him in a state correctional institute. Okay, So

1375
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't sound like and maybe there's

1376
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 1: a mentally ill a ward. Maybe let's pretend. Okay. So

1377
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: after five years in ninety eight, he gets released. He's

1378
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: thirty four, he's released, and after of course, yeah, mentally

1379
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 1: health Okay, he moves into a mental health facility in Michigan.

1380
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: And he also lived in Indiana before returning to the

1381
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: Brown Hill Amish community in February two thousand and seven.

1382
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 1: And then then they put him in like a thing

1383
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: for mentally ill Amish people. I guess there's like a

1384
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: one room somewhere with all the which probably kind of fun.

1385
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, they killed people. Sorry, he killed people.

1386
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: It's hard not to just try to imagine things about

1387
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 2: Amish people. It's a mysterious and there's lots of barns. Yeah.

1388
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 1: Interesting, And it's hard on a podcast not to say

1389
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: the first thing that pops into your mind and then

1390
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: regret it. Right, it's kind of what we do, yeah,

1391
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: kind of our jam. You just roll the dice and

1392
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 1: help you. You don't say anything stupid that it doesn't work.

1393
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 2: So it's it's quiet, like when people are like, oh,

1394
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell her.

1395
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 1: She's saying exactly what she does.

1396
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 2: I know, Like I just want to saying stupid And

1397
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,759
Speaker 2: we're like, uh, you listen to the book.

1398
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: You don't know where Delaware is. We all know, Oh

1399
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 1: they're right over there.

1400
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 2: You don't know, but twenty five percent and a quarter

1401
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: are the same thing. Hey, we live, we learn, just

1402
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 2: like Alanis Morris had said one time.

1403
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 1: Okay, so he'd been out of prison for eighteen years

1404
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: and he's living on his attorney's property in Cambridge Springs, Pennsylvania,

1405
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: which is like, oh, it's so like sweet, yeah kind

1406
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: of you know, even though like the attorney was like, oh, I.

1407
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 2: Know he killed her, but he's nowhere to go. He's

1408
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 2: mentally ill.

1409
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,680
Speaker 1: So he's living there for about a year when at

1410
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: forty four years old. He goes out to the to

1411
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: the horse barn and in the morning and his the

1412
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 1: husband and wife attorney are like where is he? And

1413
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 1: the wife goes find some He hung himself.

1414
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, it's wow.

1415
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: He had written. The only suicide note he left was

1416
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: a message on top of a dust in dust on

1417
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: top of a bucket that read forgive me please. That's

1418
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:47,560
Speaker 1: so almish.

1419
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 2: He's like, I can't use a pencil capper, so I

1420
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 2: have to write on a bucket.

1421
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: That's part of the rules. Fuck yeah. And so the

1422
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: attorneys his community completely deserted him. They shunned him, They

1423
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: kept him from rejoining his family, which I guess the

1424
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:07,720
Speaker 1: family his immediate family did want to.

1425
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 2: Like take care of him and take him back, and

1426
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 2: they wouldn't let him. The wouldn't let him take him back.

1427
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: He was an awfully good person and he could have

1428
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: helped his community a lot. I don't know about that one. Hey.

1429
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing. Listen, looks a lot to learn. Listen,

1430
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: look and listen. Despite all that, he was allowed to

1431
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: be buried in Amish cemetery with an Amish headstone. Cemetery

1432
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 1: no celebration. What are they called funeral?

1433
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like the organ you know, the you know

1434
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,839
Speaker 2: what I mean? No, I don't, okay, like an Amish burial.

1435
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: Like they said, the prayers are their prayers and so okay,

1436
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: I guess not what they're guessing.

1437
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 2: Oh, it's called h.

1438
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 1: And the journey said that that's all he would have wanted.

1439
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 1: So it was the only as far as I could tell,

1440
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:11,720
Speaker 1: at least of the time, it was the only known

1441
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 1: case of a homicide committed by an Amish man.

1442
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 2: I bet there's other ones and they just won't tell

1443
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 2: us about it. There enough, right, Yeah, that was amazing.

1444
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 2: I was Edward Gingerich. Good guys, thank you.

1445
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,679
Speaker 1: There's the lights come up and there's just a row

1446
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 1: of hats in the back. Oh my god, we heard

1447
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: what you said about all. I don't know that. What's

1448
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 1: the accent? That was weird? My god, it's not the accent.

1449
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:43,719
Speaker 2: And it's called a ceremony, Georgia.

1450
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: Oh, someone did yell ceremony. That's what I bet, ceremony celebration.

1451
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: You had ce right, I did.

1452
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 2: I shouldn't keep drinking this coffee, do it?

1453
01:22:54,479 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 1: Chug it, chug it, chug it? O cold all right,

1454
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: we're Beecca. What are the updates for this story? Well,

1455
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: there's no case updates. But while Edward Jinderick is widely

1456
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 1: considered the first Amish person to be convicted of homicide,

1457
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:13,720
Speaker 1: it would be inaccurate to say he's the only known

1458
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: Amish person to have committed murder. In two thousand and nine,

1459
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: an Amish man named Eli Weaver conspired with his mistress

1460
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 1: to murder his wife, and he ultimately pleaded guilty to

1461
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder rather than a homicide charge, but

1462
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 1: he played a central role in his wife's death. And

1463
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: since this episode was recorded, there have been additional homicide

1464
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: cases involving Amish defendants. I mean, it makes sense. It's

1465
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 1: like it's a closed culture.

1466
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,640
Speaker 2: So any of those kinds of cases or things that

1467
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,599
Speaker 2: have happened, nobody's really known about, right.

1468
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 1: They keep it in their circle. But of course, you know,

1469
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:49,280
Speaker 1: people snap in any fucking culture. Right.

1470
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, we have two hometown stories from this show. Listeners,

1471
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:56,480
Speaker 2: Alana and Andrew are going to tell us their hometowns.

1472
01:23:56,479 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: Now, do you.

1473
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 2: Have time for au?

1474
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: I think we did. We cannot. Yeah, let's do it

1475
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 1: to the one mom out here. This is one of me,

1476
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: ask one of your one of your fellow audience members

1477
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: to come up and tell us their hometown murder. Now,

1478
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: I let you you're amish. We'd love to see you,

1479
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: that's for sure. What do you think? Wow, it goes

1480
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 1: back so far. There's so many empty seats.

1481
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 2: Let's get that arm in the back on the right where. Yeah,

1482
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,760
Speaker 2: and there's somebody holding guy worms.

1483
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: Wait, oh that lady with the shoes.

1484
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, do you ever I mean you see two

1485
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 2: empty seats?

1486
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 1: Do you ever think?

1487
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 2: Oh?

1488
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:48,640
Speaker 1: What did they fight about on their way here? And

1489
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: turn around? I want you to want to do the dishes.

1490
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 1: We're going at home. Man, they had a big fight. Yep,

1491
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: that's so like intense. Dear Karen and Georgia, we broke

1492
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 1: up on the way. I hope you're happy.

1493
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 2: Okay, Vince is gonna come get you.

1494
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't even tell you anything about it.

1495
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1496
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 2: There's two people. Uh oh, I think you can both?

1497
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what if you both fistfight right now?

1498
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 2: Last man standing or a woman?

1499
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: I yes, you look crazy? So this this like young

1500
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: young lady.

1501
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to walk down that way and you

1502
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 2: have to slide your butt across people's laps.

1503
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: Do it. This was a case of random gesturing into

1504
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: the audience gone wrong. That's right, not right.

1505
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 2: It's very hard to be accurate in some situations.

1506
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 1: Can we get the lights down or they're going to

1507
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: freak out when? Oh, I want to look at it. It's

1508
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 1: real scary to see all of you, especially you up there.

1509
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: You guys are the scariest of all guys.

1510
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:51,679
Speaker 2: What the full?

1511
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: It's your name, Andrew? What are you doing on stage? Hi?

1512
01:25:59,040 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 1: The fuck?

1513
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 2: Was that the sound guy?

1514
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 1: What was that? There's just some dude wandering around back there? Yes,

1515
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 1: it was the sound what's your name, Bob? Don't be

1516
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:21,679
Speaker 1: mad at me, Bob, Bob, Bob? Thank you? Okay, girl,

1517
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 1: First girls, First girls? First? Do you stand back there? True? Oh?

1518
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: It is really great. And that's your name.

1519
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 3: My name is Alana. I'm here with my friend Elena

1520
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 3: and we actually that's nice, same friends because of the show.

1521
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 3: We like the Probably the second time we talked to

1522
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 3: each other, we told each other that we like the

1523
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 3: show and bought you get So we.

1524
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: Are lovely, very nice to be up here. Shaken a

1525
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: little bit.

1526
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 3: Sorry, I actually took my shoes off to like, wait,

1527
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 3: they're kind of wonky right now, you have to slide

1528
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 3: them back on the real fast.

1529
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 1: Just you know, you don't seem nervous, so don't worry

1530
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I see the shakya you got well,

1531
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 1: look me too though.

1532
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 3: So my hometown, Murner is also it's like a mixture

1533
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 3: between a I survived yeah and murder. Yeah, it's good,

1534
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 3: it's good. It's one of the fames. Those are opposites,

1535
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 3: I'll trust you. So I'm from Delaware. Oh yeah, yeah.

1536
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: Born and raised.

1537
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 3: I grew up in Newark, live in Wilmington. Now so

1538
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 3: all right, thank you, thank you very much.

1539
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 1: You're nervous asius. I work in politics, so I'm awesome.

1540
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:44,280
Speaker 1: We yeah, murder politicians.

1541
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 3: So I grew up in a very suburban neighborhood in Newark, Delaware.

1542
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: University of Delaware. Stop me in their cities and tell

1543
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 1: me stories. Okay, I like it. It's good. So we've

1544
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: done another story to Sorry, it's not that long.

1545
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 3: So there was so the neighborhood that I grew up in,

1546
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 3: very nice neighborhood, like nothing happened, kind of just like

1547
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 3: a sleepy neighborhood.

1548
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:15,680
Speaker 1: We like played all the time outside and all that

1549
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 1: kind of shit.

1550
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 3: So one day there was this woman in like the

1551
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 3: front of the neighborhood, so like you could see the

1552
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 3: house from the main road that was that would go by.

1553
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:30,040
Speaker 3: So she was like out tending to her rose garden.

1554
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 3: That's important. And so she's like sitting there and I

1555
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:38,960
Speaker 3: guess somebody drove by. And he worked at the local

1556
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 3: Chrysler plant, which went out of business, which was a

1557
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:43,799
Speaker 3: big deal for Nore, and.

1558
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: He saw what he liked. He I wish I could

1559
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 1: show you a picture, but it's fine. Her.

1560
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:58,880
Speaker 3: He drove to the front of the house, which was

1561
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 3: kind of like the side of the house because of

1562
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 3: the way that the neighborhood was set up, and he

1563
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 3: like nobody knows, there was like a bus stop right there,

1564
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 3: Like it was a beautiful day. Everybody was out and

1565
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 3: nobody saw him. And he went into the house because

1566
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 3: nobody locked their doors. It was the nineties. I was

1567
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 3: probably ninety eight.

1568
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 1: I think I was four.

1569
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 3: So he went into the house and he waited for

1570
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 3: her to come in, but she didn't come in. First

1571
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 3: her husband came in and he shot him.

1572
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 1: Who shot who?

1573
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 2: Wait?

1574
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 1: Who shot? Who? Oh? The bad guy shot the Doug. Yeah,

1575
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:42,919
Speaker 1: why would the husband shot.

1576
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 3: The bad guy, wouldn't that That's like not even murder,

1577
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 3: that's like defense, you know, you know, just saying so.

1578
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:54,639
Speaker 1: Ala Alima.

1579
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 3: So I guess the woman's name is so Debbie. Didn't

1580
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 3: hear the gunshot, I guess. So after she was done

1581
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 3: tending to her roses, she came in the house and

1582
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 3: there was this man standing there and he fucking kidnapped her,

1583
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 3: put her in the back of his car and drove

1584
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 3: her to his house like five miles away and tied

1585
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 3: her up and just like repeatedly raped her over the

1586
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 3: course of several days.

1587
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 1: And she was it was your story.

1588
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:29,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she like befriended him and like made her trust

1589
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 3: him and was like, he would like go to work

1590
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 3: for the day while this woman is just like tied

1591
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 3: up in his house because he's fucking horrible, and then

1592
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,639
Speaker 3: he would just come home and rape her. So one

1593
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 3: day before he went to work, she was like, you

1594
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,600
Speaker 3: know what, these ropes are like really hurting my wrists.

1595
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 3: Do you think you could loosen them or something? So

1596
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 3: he loosened them because he trusted her, and she managed

1597
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 3: to like get out of the room that she was

1598
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 3: in because he was not as smart as Gary. He

1599
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,559
Speaker 3: did not keep her in the base meant with chains.

1600
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 3: So she managed to call nine one one and like,

1601
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 3: I mean, they came and got her and everything was fine.

1602
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: She lived.

1603
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,639
Speaker 3: So there was the I Survived, Yes, But the best

1604
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 3: part of the story is that, well, actually there are

1605
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:19,879
Speaker 3: two really good parts. My parents were in New Orleans

1606
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 3: at the time, and this was like national news, like

1607
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 3: people were talking about the neighborhood I grew up in

1608
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 3: was called Academy Hill, and so they were calling it Academy.

1609
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:31,480
Speaker 1: Kill or Murder Hill and in New Orleans.

1610
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 3: And my parents are like, holy fucking shit, I'm not

1611
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:36,000
Speaker 3: gonna live there. So my grandparents had come to take

1612
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,560
Speaker 3: care of us, and I distinctly remember riding my tricycle

1613
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 3: like towards the house and my grandmother chasing after me

1614
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 3: because like at that point they still hadn't found the

1615
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 3: woman and like she's like, they're fucking cops everywhere. Yeah,

1616
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 3: So that was one good part. Another good part is,

1617
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 3: like probably six years ago I was watching I Survived.

1618
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 3: It was the first time I ever watched it, and

1619
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 3: they like in that show, they kind of show you

1620
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 3: like a nice little clip rather than and it's like

1621
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 3: it's nice. It's like a breeze flowing right, so it's

1622
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:13,120
Speaker 3: not cheesy or anything. And so they show this clip

1623
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 3: of these rose bushes in front of the house, and

1624
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,560
Speaker 3: I was like, why does that look so fucking familiar?

1625
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 3: And like the neighborhood I lived in, there were only

1626
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:25,880
Speaker 3: like three different houses and they just like made a

1627
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 3: billion of them.

1628
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 1: So, like I, it.

1629
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 3: Ended up being Debbie and it was really fucking creepy.

1630
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: But she has an episode of I Survived.

1631
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 3: He has an episode Surved and it's really good. I

1632
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 3: don't remember which one it is. It has been forever

1633
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 3: since I've watched it. Probably should have watched it before

1634
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:42,000
Speaker 3: I did this, but I did not think this was

1635
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:42,599
Speaker 3: gonna happen.

1636
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:46,879
Speaker 2: You just good dad, as much a really good.

1637
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: This well done. Nice to me, you too, Thanks for

1638
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 1: being here.

1639
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:53,360
Speaker 2: Go ahead and take that mic from her, think all right,

1640
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:55,640
Speaker 2: you come over, thank you, I'll take it.

1641
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 1: I had to give it to Bob. Yeah you can

1642
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 1: get out here with Andrew. Yeah him so high. Thanks

1643
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:05,400
Speaker 1: you for being here.

1644
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 4: So surreal right now, like why you guys are real people.

1645
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 2: I know it's not weird to go they're all watching them.

1646
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 2: Oh man, so we know any songs from Franklin.

1647
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. I had never heard of Hamilton,

1648
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 4: and I'm a teacher, so all the other teachers like

1649
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:28,759
Speaker 4: you never heard of Hamilton, but you know now right, yeah, okay,

1650
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 4: my story is actually about a coworker that I had

1651
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 4: at one of my first jobs. So uh, of course

1652
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 4: a lot of you guys know in here the most

1653
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 4: wonderful plays in the world.

1654
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Christmas Tree Shop?

1655
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:43,560
Speaker 3: What is it?

1656
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:46,599
Speaker 4: I'm from Connecticut and they have a store called Christmas.

1657
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 4: They have a story called Christmas Tree Shop, and it

1658
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,360
Speaker 4: just sells like all the bullshit that you can't find

1659
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 4: anywhere else around if you if you want like a

1660
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:58,800
Speaker 4: Flamingo man of old tin cans. It's like painted all

1661
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,600
Speaker 4: nice and it's right next to the dog food and

1662
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 4: right next to the gummy bears, and right was like

1663
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 4: crazy shit.

1664
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 1: Wow, right, So wait, why do they call it Christmas.

1665
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:08,639
Speaker 4: Tree Shop because it's like a bunch of just random stuff.

1666
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 4: They don't sell Christmas trees.

1667
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,160
Speaker 1: They don't sell anything christ then, okay, they need to

1668
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:14,200
Speaker 1: get their stories straight exactly. It's really weird.

1669
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 4: So there was a guy in the stock room named

1670
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:20,839
Speaker 4: Zachary Lapalooza and.

1671
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: I've done at his music.

1672
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:27,880
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, sorry, I'm very sorry about he grabbed it.

1673
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:29,759
Speaker 1: It was there and you grabbed it. Yeah.

1674
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 4: Oh it was when I was like thirteen or fourteen.

1675
01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 4: Actually know I had to be like sixteen because it

1676
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 4: was working on So I was like I was around sixteen,

1677
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 4: and he used to do stock room. He was like

1678
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 4: twenty six twenty eight. He had like a bowl cut

1679
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 4: that made his head look exactly like a penis why

1680
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,680
Speaker 4: exactly how how like it was just like if he

1681
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 4: had if he had like his haircut was like like

1682
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 4: perfectly like, and so he had a penis bowl that

1683
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 4: they kept, you.

1684
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:00,800
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

1685
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was it was bad. It was bad.

1686
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 4: But he was a really quiet guy, really like mild

1687
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 4: man or whatever. Every time I used to come in,

1688
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 4: he used to be the one to open the door

1689
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 4: in the back, so I used to walk in May

1690
01:35:12,479 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 4: I went up zagon like go to work whatever. But

1691
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 4: we had another manager named I think her name was

1692
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 4: Sean Trees. But apparently they had had some kind of

1693
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 4: problem where he fell off a ladder and did something

1694
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 4: or other. She said that it was his fall, so

1695
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 4: he didn't get Workmen's company.

1696
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: He got fire. Oh, he flipped a shit, came in

1697
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:32,840
Speaker 1: the next day, was like, where the fuck is she?

1698
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:35,639
Speaker 4: A guy that I had never known to be like angry,

1699
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 4: He was really quiet. He just came and freaking out.

1700
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:39,280
Speaker 1: You were there? No I was not.

1701
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, no no. By this time I had gotten fired

1702
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 4: for coming back later on my brain.

1703
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 2: But Christmas Tree stores in ten exactly, so, so I

1704
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:51,559
Speaker 2: had found out later on that he freaked out.

1705
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:54,880
Speaker 4: Whatever whatever, They had sent Shawn Trees to work at

1706
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:57,559
Speaker 4: the Christmas Tree shop in Rhode Island. It's like, all

1707
01:35:57,600 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 4: the way I crossed state lines. He found out that

1708
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 4: she was there. Yeah, got a big fucking kitchen knife

1709
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 4: or something. Drove all the way from Connecticut Rhode Island

1710
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 4: across state lines.

1711
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: How far is that? That's like, eh, pretty far? How many?

1712
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 1: Like an hour?

1713
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 4: I'm horrible with maps, And so an hour you guys

1714
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 4: were talking about where Delaware was, and I was.

1715
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I see too, I see too.

1716
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 4: Two hours yeah, someone like, I mean pretty far, okay,

1717
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 4: And so he drove across state lines, found out that

1718
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,799
Speaker 4: she was working at this Christmas Tree shop, sat out front,

1719
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 4: waited for her to leave for the night. Drove back

1720
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:34,840
Speaker 4: to her house and then killed her in the house,

1721
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:37,919
Speaker 4: stabbed her some like seventy eight times.

1722
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: Whoa wow.

1723
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:41,479
Speaker 4: At first it was like forty five times, and he

1724
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 4: was like, put her in the car, drove away with her. Yeah,

1725
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 4: so he drove away with her in the car. Then

1726
01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 4: apparently he was like, oh that forty five was not enough.

1727
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 4: He got out of the car, stabbed her another like

1728
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:52,759
Speaker 4: thirty times.

1729
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, sh and then.

1730
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:57,520
Speaker 4: Took her body through it in like a ravine somewhere

1731
01:36:57,760 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 4: and threw a toilet on top of her.

1732
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Zack, right, like fucking Zach Yeah, you know.

1733
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so h yeah, that was he established seventy

1734
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:10,160
Speaker 4: times through her and whatever. They found her like a

1735
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 4: week and a half later. Yeah, and he had no

1736
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 4: idea who it was. But then they had blood evidence

1737
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 4: that she like trying to fight him or something. They

1738
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 4: found blood evidence undereath her nails. Yeah, and realized that

1739
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 4: he was the one who got fired in Connecticut. Ted

1740
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:25,040
Speaker 4: all back together and when found him. So now he's

1741
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 4: doing life in Rhode Island.

1742
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:33,400
Speaker 1: Wow. Oh dang, that was amazing. It's pretty crazy. That

1743
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: was a good one.

1744
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:38,320
Speaker 2: You think you kind of know someone good old Christmas

1745
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:40,800
Speaker 2: tree shop, Yeah, you know, what you see that bull

1746
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 2: cut you just walk then every right.

1747
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:48,280
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, thank you Andrew. That was awesome,

1748
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:50,800
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you. All right, thank you

1749
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:53,679
Speaker 1: so much. Thanks for being here. Huh, thanks you guys,

1750
01:37:53,800 --> 01:37:55,360
Speaker 1: thank you. That was so cool.

1751
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:57,720
Speaker 2: Look yeah, yeah, I leave that for That was our

1752
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 2: last hometown of the show. Yeah, best friends, best friends,

1753
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:06,480
Speaker 2: brand new best friends.

1754
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:15,639
Speaker 1: They'll be signing autographs on that lobby after this and

1755
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 1: we're back.

1756
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 2: There are no updates for either of those hometown cases,

1757
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 2: just to keep everybody apprized at our researchers always look

1758
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:24,640
Speaker 2: and see just in case there's a little something to

1759
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 2: tell you there ain't.

1760
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:26,679
Speaker 1: Nope.

1761
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 2: So this episode was originally titled Live at the Keswick Theater.

1762
01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:32,759
Speaker 1: If we were naming it today based on some funny

1763
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:37,000
Speaker 1: shit from the episode, maybe we call it Sophisticated Miss

1764
01:38:37,040 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 1: Come on, I love vintage tags almost as much as

1765
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 1: I love vintage clothing. Then they make you laugh like

1766
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 1: they're just so ridiculous.

1767
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:46,640
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, and it's like time and place kind of

1768
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 2: thing is like.

1769
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:50,240
Speaker 1: That little reveals. It's so funny.

1770
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:53,200
Speaker 2: Or we could call it old Anvil, which was my

1771
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 2: joke about you buying all the heaviest things that you

1772
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to travel with when you shop on the road.

1773
01:38:58,400 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: And I still do that.

1774
01:38:59,320 --> 01:38:59,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1775
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 1: And then also Franklin. You guys, I called Hamilton Franklin.

1776
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 1: That made me laugh so hard. Oh my god. It

1777
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,519
Speaker 1: just shows you how not ended fucking musical theater I

1778
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 1: am Franklin.

1779
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 2: Also at the time, I think it was just starting

1780
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 2: to be popular, so it's like it sounds even crazier today.

1781
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 1: It's like calling it the Little Morman, right, right, what's

1782
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 1: it called Franklin? Yeah, they should do a musical about

1783
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: Ben Franklin. Why isn't there one? I fucking gave the

1784
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. I gave it basically on a platter poor

1785
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:32,720
Speaker 1: man's copyright. We already started on a podcast, that's right,

1786
01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: our idea. All right, well, thanks for listening, you guys.

1787
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna say goodbye from the Keswick Theater in twenty seventeen.

1788
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: Goodbye bye, you guys.

1789
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 2: Okay, we've had the best time on this tour. It

1790
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,400
Speaker 2: has been so cool to be here with you in

1791
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 2: real life and see that the bullshit we do in

1792
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 2: George's apartment actually matters to seemingly a shit.

1793
01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 1: Ton of people. It's such a huge compliment. Uh, it

1794
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:06,840
Speaker 1: really is, Like, and every single fucking person we've met

1795
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 1: on this tour has been cool and someone we would

1796
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 1: be friends with and hang out with. It's so fucking

1797
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 1: nice and awesome and we feel so lucky.

1798
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah we so we talk about it all the time. Yeah,

1799
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:21,120
Speaker 2: you're crying. We talk about it all the time. Though,

1800
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 2: they're just like, we keep saying that dements. We're like,

1801
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 2: can we just keep doing this? We want to do

1802
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 2: this for a living. How could you not want to

1803
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 2: do this for fucking a living. So thank you for

1804
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 2: you guys being here, buying tickets, supporting us is the

1805
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 2: reason we can even do it.

1806
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Philadelphia so much. You are an

1807
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:42,719
Speaker 1: amazing crowd.

1808
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 2: Stay sexy, bye you guys.

1809
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 1: Thank you