WEBVTT - Skin Tests to Detect T-Cell Immunity to Covid-19 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.760 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.280 you the latest news from the worlds of business and finance, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.120 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.600 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.480 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.720 Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.600 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.319 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:32.120 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. The World Health Organization, they 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.920 have been in China. They've been doing their own investigation 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.720 after a long time of kind of wrinkling back and 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.879 forth to be able to get access. But they have 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.760 found now that they've been doing this, that the coronavirus 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.440 most likely jumped to humans through an animal or frozen 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.920 wildlife products, and a theory that it resulted from a 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:53.320 laboratory leak is quote extremely unlikely end quote, which is 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.720 we know some people have, you know, speculated on Yeah, 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.160 they have, and and look, I think that will not 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.200 necessarily some of the people who think that it did 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.280 come from that to rest, but it is helpful to 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.160 hear that from the World Health Organization. We're also seeing 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:13.959 some other numbers, including a five percent Governor Andrew Cuomo 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.000 saying that the White House is boosting vaccine allocation another 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.160 five percent for the next three weeks. The additional five 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.280 percent was announced on a White House call with governors 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.520 on Tuesday, and it follows initial increase and then a 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:31.240 subsequent yeah, exactly. Uh. And it's interesting though, um, let's 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.679 just see it says the supply will only really increase 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.759 when and if J and J has approved, the governor 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.080 saying Jane j would be a major and significant increase 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.240 in production. There will be more information of that over 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.119 the next few weeks. Listen, you know, over the next 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.600 two weeks. Excuse me, but we know, uh, Timy and 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.160 I have talked about it, and we've talked about with 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.120 medical professionals that it's going to take many and multiple 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.160 vaccines to kind of get this all under control. And 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.920 we know each vaccine, you know, comes with its own 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:00.040 you know, caveats, two doses, one doses, extreme refrigeration not 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.160 so much the case. And there's still somewhat of a 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.920 debate about you know, should we just skip, you know, 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.120 saving those second doses and get it out to more people. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.120 The Body administration telling governors they are adamantly opposed to 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.120 using second doses as first doses. I know from people 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.480 who've gotten first dose, they're like, I want my second dose. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.760 That's when I will feel secure and confident and comfortable. Listen, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.760 let's do what the CDC says. We got a good 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.480 um and we got a good a good stat here 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.200 in New York today to the city has surpassed a 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.919 million doses. Remember, Mayor build a Lasio had hoped to 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.040 reach that by the end of January. It took a 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.760 few extra days. Here we are in February nine, and 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.359 now we have surpassed that. Yeah, exactly. And just keep 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.560 in mind global cases exceeding one six point five million, 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.760 deaths passing two point thirty two million, and our global 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.600 vaccine tracker more than a hundred and thirty four million 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.880 shots have been given worldwide. But as we know, in 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.120 a world of many billions of people, one of the 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.480 other things that we're watching when it comes to COVID 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:00.320 is tonics pharmaceuticals surging yesterday rallying again to day up 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.239 fifteen percent before backing off a little bit, well, actually 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.519 a lot, but they're still up about five six percent today, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.040 up nearly a hundred forty two percent now this year 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.959 after a forty drop last year. Just kind of setting 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.960 the scene because it's a company's story, it's a fundamental story, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.639 but it's also a stock story. Um, and let's talk 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.680 about why we're seeing the big moves because apparently the 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.920 company has come out and said it is developing a 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.000 COVID nineteen skin test, and that has got investors interested. 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.920 Dr Seth Letterman is a guest and friend of the show, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.520 co founder, CEO and chairman of the New York based 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:36.200 specialty pharmaceutical and clinical stage biopharmer company Tonics Pharmaceuticals. He's 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.440 with us today on the phone in New Bedford, Massachusetts. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.880 Dr Letterman, good to have you back here on Bloomberg. Uh, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.560 investors very enthused about this development. Tell us about this 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:53.000 COVID nineteen skin test. Oh, we're developing a vaccine primarily 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.840 that stimulates key cell immunity. It's based on a live 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:03.320 viral factor that's called horsebox, and it's a one shot 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.680 vaccine that we believe from historical parallels could provide decades 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.000 of protection. We have monkey data supporting the vaccine, so 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.120 we were very happy when we announced yesterday that we're 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.920 developing a skin test that will measure T sell community 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.000 to COVID. And we think that this is important because 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.240 there are two arms of the immune system, antibodies and 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.200 T cells. Antibodies are transient. They can be measured for 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.240 maybe three or six months. The T cells last for 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.360 years or decades, so we think it will be very 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.720 important to figure out how many people have T cell 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:47.359 immunity instead of just the antibody test. How long do 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.240 you think that will stick or I mean, how long 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.080 do you think we will have to know this? I 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.920 mean I'm thinking about this in the context of right 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:55.840 us being on the other side of this pandemic at 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.719 some point, But how many more years do you envision 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:04.159 us actually needing to get sted for immunity. Well, unfortunately, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.760 I think that COVID is here to stay. I think 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.839 it's the majority opinion of people that of experts, that 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.200 COVID will become endemic after I just want to make 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.400 sure I understand this here to stay. We've only eradicated 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:26.280 one one thing, and that is smallpox. In around the world. Smallpox, 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.240 we were very fortunate was eradicated because it was extremely deadly. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.640 Thirty percent of infected people died. But part of the 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.920 success of smallpox eradication was the vaccine that was used. 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.520 And the other part of the success with smallpox vaccination 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:48.400 was that there were no animal reservoirs. And by animal reservoirs, 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.960 I mean that no other non human animals got infected 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:58.120 with it. With COVID, we already know that's not the case. Manx, hamsters, tigers, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.320 a variety of different animals get so it's very unfortunately 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.479 unlikely that this might be eradicated. So I think that 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.960 the solution long term will be childhood immunization in the 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.920 same way that we immunize for MMR measos moms and rebella. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:20.560 We probably will go to a system of immunizing children, 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.240 and that's why we think of vaccine like ours, a 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.560 live replicating vaccine which can provide years and decades of protection, 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.400 is the best solution for that post pandemic COVID problem. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.240 So you answered my question, which is you envisioned this 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.760 being a vaccine that a child gets at a very 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.200 young age and then they don't have to worry about 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:48.640 this for decades. That's the hope. But it wouldn't be infants, 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:52.280 because a lot of our own vaccine is for um, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:57.080 you know, in the case of smallpox, it was administered 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.880 to children about five years old or so, but not 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.480 not for infants. But yes, I think that that would 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.880 be the plan. But clearly, first we have to get 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.880 out of the pandemic. And for this, I think we're 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.560 all extremely grateful to the people who have quickly developed 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.000 these vaccines, the m RNA vaccines and maybe now these 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.480 ad no valuous vaccines. Uh, they definitely have an incredibly 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.720 important role and I can't wait to get mine. So 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:25.960 you know, first we have to put out this fire 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.480 and then we can go to more durable solutions. So 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.400 and forgive me, I just want to go back to 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.480 because I know and just reading in before you were 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.440 coming on and I know you are working on the vaccine, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.520 But what about this skin test, because it does seem 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.080 like investors are very enthusiastic. Are they wrong to be 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.840 so enthusiastic about that and not focus on the vaccine instead? 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.120 The skin test is very important? Now is mentioning the 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.680 vaccine because it tells a little bit of this story 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.120 about how we got to the skin test. But the 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.400 skin test is very important because we really don't know 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.440 how many people have immunity and we can't measure it. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.040 So there are many cases, for example, where there's a 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.200 husband or life and one of the spouses gets infected. 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.800 The other cares for them, but for example, the caregiver 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:19.440 frequently doesn't get sick, doesn't develop antibodies, etcetera. We believe 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.920 that a number of these cases actually T cell immunity 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:28.800 develops without antibodies. There it's now known by much more 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:34.120 complicated laboratory techniques that T cell immunity is protective of 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.600 developing serious disease. So we just think this skin test 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.000 is important and we think the excitement is justified because 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.280 we would really get a better handle on how much 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.240 T sell immunity is in the population. And also it 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.440 will be important information for people as individuals to go 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.360 back to work to feel more safe knowing that even 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.960 though they don't have antibodies, they may have T sell immunity. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:00.840 It certainly sounds like when all of said and done 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.679 and we've gotten through this, we had no playbook, But 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.280 we're going to certainly have a tool kit with various 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.440 tools in the form of tests, vaccines, and treatments, um 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.320 so that we can be ready for the next virus. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.600 And that seems like where we're going through in terms 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.840 of the skin test. In terms of your vaccine specifically, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.720 you know, when does it actually when does it actually 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.240 get out there and can be used? Well, we're going 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.760 to be in human trials with both of them, we 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.319 believe this year. But I think in terms of you know, 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:36.760 getting out beyond trials hopefully, and we'll have to see 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.199 what the regulatory environment is like how well the current 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.440 vaccines are keeping this situation under control, because if we 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.480 go to a more traditional vaccine development, you know, that 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.920 could be three years or so, not for the skin 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.480 test but for the vaccine. But does but does that 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.960 become does that become moot? Forgive me for interrupted, because 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:57.720 I'm just trying to understand does that become moot though 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.360 at this point because if we've got vaccines that are 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:03.400 already out there that we're using that are working, No, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.360 it doesn't become because I think what maybe one way 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.800 to think about it is we need pandemic vaccines that 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.160 are very fast to develop, but may not have all 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.200 the characteristics that we want, and then it will take 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.280 time to refine them and make them better because we 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.640 have to be dealing with this problem for you know, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:26.520 centrally centuries, hopefully millennia. UM. You know, this problem isn't 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.880 going away. We have to develop tools so that people 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.679 can be protected for a long period of time. And 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.959 also another characteristic of vaccines is to stop people from 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.080 spreading it. So there's a lot to be learned, and 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.640 you know, there's it's wonderful that we have some quick 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.920 fixes that we need durable solutions to concern just so 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:49.560 I make sure I get this right. Your main concern 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.520 with the vaccines that are available right now is longevity. 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.200 How long for protection they allow they give to the 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.160 person getting the vaccine. Is that correct? There are several concerns, 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.839 but durability protection is important. Another one is do they 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:07.280 block transmission that's not known yet um. And and there 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.400 you are their concerns what type of immunity they confer. 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.360 So these are brand new technologies. No m RNA vaccine 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.120 has ever been approved ever before and even these just 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.040 have emergency use authorization, so we're using a much more 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:28.120 standard technique that has a lot of known characteristics. But 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.640 again I applaud the speed with which these vaccines have 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.040 been developed, and I encourage everyone to get them in, 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.920 you know, when their number comes up. So I'm I'm 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.640 very pro vaccination, but I also think that we can't rest. 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.760 We can't think that this problem is solved by any means, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.800 and I think that we all have to work very 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.760 hard to develop better vaccines so that because obviously we 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.400 have to protect people who aren't even born yet. Yeah. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.280 We're talking with Dr Seth Letterman, co founder, chief executive 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.440 officer and chairman of Tonics Pharmaceuticals, with us on Tuesday 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.560 from New Bedford, Massachusetts. So when you think about your 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.120 own vaccine um, Dr Letterman, is it more about the 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.959 viruses to come? Which bus this week? The cover story 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.760 right now is get ready for the next pandemic, folks, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.520 because it's coming. So are you thinking when in terms 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.360 of the development of your vaccine, that it's more about 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.040 not necessarily this covid vaccine, but the next one. Oh, 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.880 We're very focused on this, this covid um. But as 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.000 as I'm sure you know, this covid is a moving target, correct, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.240 And already last summer there were a number of mutations 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.280 that were being noticed around the world. And now I 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.680 think we should all still be bracing for the British 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.559 strain which has now arrived in the United States. South 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.760 African straint has arrived in the United States. And in 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.280 addition to just these new variants, the variants are now 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.400 believed by some to recombine. So we have a lot 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.280 of misery to go through before we are out of 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.080 this so um our vaccine we believe can be important 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:04.840 for the COVID can be adaptable to variants, and um 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:10.080 we cannot get complacent just because we have these first 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.960 few vaccines. Dr Letterman, what do you mean by these strains, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.520 these new variants can recombine. What does that mean? Well, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.160 that means that, you know, the the so called British 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.920 variant is defined by a number of mutations, and the 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.840 South African mutation is defined by a number of mutations. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.680 But they're already viruses that look like they have some 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.480 from some and some from another, some from one and 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.679 some from the other. So all of these mutations aren't 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:44.680 rising spontaneously, many believe. So it just means that this 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:50.520 this COVID two virus is diabolical and is a moving target. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:56.200 So I think everyone has to really focus on this 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.040 for some time to come. And even I'm sure you 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.800 know that even with the nation, we still recommend mask wearing, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.240 social diff and washing all the rest of it. So 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.960 we're far from out of it. Hey, listen, I have 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.760 to ask you just got about a minute left here 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.880 before you go. I know last month your stock kind 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.520 of was the target of day traders uh touting the 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.800 company on message boards for at that time no apparent reason. 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.080 We we reported out here at Bloomberg UM obviously different 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.120 from the trade that we're seeing today. How do you 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.080 feel about that? And you're stock getting caught up in 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.040 some of that, and how do you as a CEO 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.400 kind of monitor it and take care of it or 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.160 just at least keep an eye on it. Well, we 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.720 we've raised money yesterday from for healthcare specific institutional funds, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.080 so I think our primary investors are are funds UM. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:51.040 But there was a day in January when your your 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.320 organization wrote a story about it. We I actually went 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.920 on Reddit for the first time last weekend and tried 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.960 to figure it out, and I apologize I didn't get 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.560 very far so I think it's an exciting development. Um uh, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.920 so far, to my knowledge, we haven't really been caught 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.120 up in it, but I do think that one of 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.560 the most exciting things about it is the transition of 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.520 people to being interested in individual names, because I think 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.440 we've come from a period maybe ten years where particularly 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.280 younger people have just bought E T s and indexes 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.760 and things like that. So maybe if people are at home, 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.440 maybe that you know, the no fee trading, but whatever, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.360 I think it's very exciting that people are getting back 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.480 into the individual names instead of the indexes. And as 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.400 far as I know, we're mostly an institutional stock. For example, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:48.160 yesterday's entire seventy million dollar financing was for institutions. All right, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:49.640 good to know. I just wanted to get you away 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.040 in Dr Seth Ladderman, co found er, CEO and chairman 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.000 of Tonics Pharmaceuticals. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:01.000 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Carol, 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.560 we talk a lot about the toll of the pandemic 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.360 has taken in terms of numbers cases people who've died 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.520 as a result of the pandemic. But one thing that's 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.200 getting more and more focused right now is the way 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.360 that we have put off going and visiting the doctor. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.600 We've put off getting healthcare, and different communities that have 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.600 been affected more than others as a result of that. 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.080 And McCourt joins us now. She's healthcare reporter at Bloomberg 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.760 News and she's writing about she's talking about her recent 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:33.000 article miss doctor visits have created COVID's shadow health crisis. Emma, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.640 it's great to have you on Bloomberg Business Week Radio. 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.040 This story is really important. Take us through some of 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.360 the numbers as to what we're learning about how people 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.840 might not have visited the doctor like they used to 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.200 during the pandemic. Right, Well, thank you so much for 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.880 having me on. I'm really excited to be here. Um. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.200 Some sobering news, however, about the sort of neglect of 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:05.040 non COVID UH conditions during this past year. Um. You know, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.200 I think a lot of us can relate for sure 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.480 having pushed off you know, maybe a primary care doctor visit, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.520 a routine dermatologist visit. Um. But you know, the big 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.280 kind of takeaway here is in those early months of 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.800 the pandemic in particular, there was just such profound disruption 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.720 to the medical system, and it was people being told 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.000 to stay home, people being afraid to go to the hospital, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.200 even in cases where they really needed emergency care. UM. 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.320 And even kind of in the months since then, it's 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.679 been a little harder to get in to see a doctor. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.560 They're UM sitting out their waiting rooms because they don't 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.440 want a lot of people credit in their things like that. UM. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.440 And so you know, the most dramatic change I think 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.160 you see in those early weeks, it was about UM 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.080 at least two point seven billion of routine healthcare spending 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.960 just sort of disintegrated during that really disruptive early period 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.960 it And we've seen those numbers come back. But I 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.480 think the big takeaway is that even with the rise 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.320 of virtual doctor business, we haven't seen UM that that 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.880 depth is that sort of being made up. M Well 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.800 and so listen, we've talked about this a bunch on 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.359 air with a lot of UM members of the medical community, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.720 and Emma, you know the thing is, you tell I 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.480 want to drill down a little bit because you talk 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:33.119 about one individual, specifically, tell us about Sarah strim Al. Yeah, 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:38.440 So Sarah's story, UH, was very troubling so she UM, 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.360 she's thirty nine, she's owned a New York yoga studio. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.119 She realized over the summer that she had a lump 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.960 in her breast and you know, immediately had a visit 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.600 with her physician as quickly as she could to consult 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.320 with her doctor about it. She was referred for a 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.240 scan UM, but was told, you know, the stud disappointment 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.640 you can have is three months away. And she ended 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.840 up actually finding a private firm that could do it 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.440 much sooner. She paid out of pocket for it UM 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.639 and was diagnosed with these two breast cancer UM you know, 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.919 days later. So her physician actually told her that taking 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.240 such quick action and probably saved her life because she 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.760 her cancer could have progressed a lot further in those 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.159 UM in those months if she had just waited to 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.040 get the scan. And I think that kind of illustrates, how, 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.760 you know, one of the most dramnast dramatic scenarios in 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.960 which UM, not having easy ready access to a physician 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.199 UM can really affect people's health. Now, we hope that 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:45.840 all these UM mispreventative care or routine care or even 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.359 scans like with Sarah, that all these kind of disruptions 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.440 to the system don't have such dramatic effects for people's help, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.920 but it's likely that it will, especially in situations where 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.280 it's a chronic chronic conditions like diabetes, hypertension, and you 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.959 really do need to have ready continuous monitoring of those 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:10.000 um of those conditions. Otherwise you can have complications and 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.680 it can enforcetion your quality of life. That can even 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.360 you know, right, right, and listen, right, there's implications for 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.320 someone's individual personal health, but there's also you know, if 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.800 we think about it down the road, maybe also how 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.080 it will add to overall health care costs in this nation. 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.760 Listen this, I think everybody can relate to this story 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.879 where things were put off during the pandemic, partly because 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.560 she didn't want to go near your health facilities and 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.159 partly because health facility says, don't come near me. And 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.200 so now we're all playing catchup, right, Tim, I kidded 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.000 with you about even going to the dentist for a while, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.200 but you know what, it worked. I went to the 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.800 dentists and it was all good. I'm kind of tough. Uh, Emma, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.960 this is a really smart story. Um, thank you for 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.320 bringing to us. Uh, we really appreciate it. Am a Court, 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.040 she's healthcare reporter at Bloomberg News on the phone in 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.440 New York City, and I know as soon as things 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.840 were open, I was like, all right, let's go back right. Yeah, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:59.880 it absolutely makes sense. I mean, think about the way 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.960 that people change their behavior on the pandemic and continue 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.400 to as well. Really important. This is Bloomberg Business Week 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.480 with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.520 Bloomberg Radio. Do you want to get to among our 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.320 most read stories on the Bloomberg Love Love love this story. 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.760 The headline for it, Uh, it really says so much, Tim. 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.240 It's about the mastermind behind one of the world's richest companies, 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.560 a two point three trillion dollar fortress. Reporting for Bloomberg 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.560 Business Week with another deep dive amazing one is Bloomberg 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.720 News Technology Report to Austin card joining us on the 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.240 phone in Los Angeles, and Austin, I love this star 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.320 story and I think about you know, when we think 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.120 about the genius behind this company, we understandably and rightfully 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.960 think typically of Tim Cook's predecessor at Apple. We think 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.560 about Steve Jobs, and yet Tim Cook has really taken 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.840 Apple to a whole other level totally. Um, what the 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:57.400 story really dives into is a different exploration of Apple. Traditionally, 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.520 every look at Apple is about its product, about the 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.040 mythology of Steve Jobs, about it design DNA, and what 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.120 we really wanted to show was in fact equally important 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.159 to that trajectory of this company is the operational, the 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.000 supply chain DNA that that Tim Cook had baked into 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:15.600 the into the company, as well as sort of the 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.480 political and diplomacy skills he brings as a leader of 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:21.840 the company, which is definitely you know, we have someone 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.159 in there just describing his personality as a you know, 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.960 a tag boring perhaps compared to the Steve Jobs, but 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.560 but that's what Apple needed in the last year's, last 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:34.440 ten years, especially during the the drump era. Do weeber 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.359 you're also with us, joining us and this is like 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:39.560 one of those stories. I just love that you you 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.640 learned something else about a company that we cover so much, 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.320 but yet here you go you find out something new. Yeah. 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.320