1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We are 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: officially into Halloween episode. We sure are, I mean, if 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: it were up to me, like we say, we don't. 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: We don't keep any other um history calendar like Black 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: History Month. We don't really heed that too much because 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: we like to cover that kind of history all year round. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: I feel the same about Halloween. We should just be 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: doing spooky things about bats and ghosts at every every 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: turn we possibly can. But now it is officially October 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: in Halloween time. I know not everyone wants Halloween all 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: the time like I do. UM. The person we're talking 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: about today, Johann George strip For, is a little bit tricky. 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: He's kind of a slippery snake in the historical record, 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: and like some of our other Halloween episodes, uh, the one, 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: we're not quite as fast to historical record because they 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: kind of don't exist, and the ones that do exist 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: have been purposely clouded by Johan and his followers and 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: his detractors. Everyone kind of told a different version of 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: stories involving him, and thus confusion. UM. One thing I'll 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: also mentioned we went with the spelling of Schrepford as 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: sc h r e p f e R. You will 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: also see it in lieu of that first e and 25 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: oh with an umlund over it. Just if you're going 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: looking for more information now, you might want to do 27 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: two searches to give the results for both of those. 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: UM guided that this morning looking for artwork, uh to 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: go on our social media, and still the best I 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: could do was artwork of a person who was inspired 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: by him, and not anything directly related to him. Yeah, 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: it's he's like I said, he's difficult to pin down. 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: There are also some um works of art that we're 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: done about him that are clearly fanciful, right, Like they're 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: like someone imagining what it was like to be at 36 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: one of his spiritual events. UM. The other thing I 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: want to say, even though this is for me a 38 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: jolly time of Halloween talk, Um, this one is one 39 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: of those episodes and I feel like we have had 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: to make this particular heads up so many times that 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: I should apologize lately. Uh. This is another episode where 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: we do discuss um death by suicide, So I want 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: to make sure if that's not for somebody that they 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: know to to hop right out of this one. Uh, 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: and it it comes up a good bit towards the end, 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: So I know that. But yes, uh, this is gonna 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: be some necromancy, some Charlatanism and some weirdness and some 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: people who don't want to believe that anything spiritual could 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: be disproved. Right. Yeah, So, as Holly just alluded to, 50 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: what we know about Johann George Schrepfer's origins is actually 51 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: pretty slim on details. He is believed to have been 52 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: born in Nuremberg in seventeen thirty eight, although sometimes you'll 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: see sources claim seventeen thirty nine. He didn't really receive 54 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: a formal education and was often described as having coarse behavior, 55 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: so it's generally believed that he grew up poor. We 56 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: really don't know anything about his parents, though he said 57 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: to have had siblings who he was not close to. 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: Shrepp for himself was known to also tell wildly differing 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: versions of his origins, and this was also true of 60 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: his eventual followers. It's just not possible to feel confident 61 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: about really any of it, even when you're looking at 62 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: articles written by historical scholars. The details are so different 63 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: and cases that I'm like, well, I can't go to 64 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: Germany and dig through the records, and I don't speak German, 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: so that wouldn't help anyway. So I'm just gonna have 66 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: to point out where there's disparity. At some point, Johan 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: is said to have started working as a cooper, although 68 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be something he did for long. 69 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: It's also not something that comes up in every version 70 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: of his story. The Seven Years War started in seventeen 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: fifty six, although you will sometimes see that extended to 72 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: seventeen fifty four, as the French and Indian War began 73 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: that year, and it's one of the many conflicts that 74 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: overlap in this larger conflict. Additionally, sometimes the start is 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: given uh much earlier, on a much longer timeline of 76 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,119 Speaker 1: being more than twenty years long, because it's origin points 77 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: involve other conflicts even before that. So as a crash course, 78 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: and we're doing this just to give you a sense 79 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: of what was going on in the world when Schrepfur 80 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: was alive. Here are the basic basics of the Seven 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: Years War, which had all of Europe's major power bases 82 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: involved Prussia and Great Britain, got into a fight with 83 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: France and Austria, and the Austrian Habsburgs were trying to 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: regain Silesia. All of this is tied into the War 85 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: of the Austrian Succession, which started in seventeen forty. It's 86 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that the length of the Seven 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: Years War gets a little stretchy. But this war was 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: also pretty amieble like in its geographical spread. In North America. 89 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Most of the conflict was based on this tug of 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: war between England and France regarding each of their claims 91 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: on territory and their trade potential. It also reached into 92 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: India and West Africa and the Caribbean, and if you 93 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: remember our episode on the Black Hole of Calcutta, that 94 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: was part of the Seven Years War as well. This 95 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: whole thing has been called the First World War on occasion, 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: most notably by Sir Winston Churchill, and that is probably 97 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: how it felt from a European perspective. For sure, all 98 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: of the countries involved were weakened financially by the whole 99 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: war effort, and they all lost a lot of men, 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: not just to the conflict but to disease, and that 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: of course would have been true of the civilian population 102 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: as well, especially the disease spread through the warfare. It 103 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: is unsurprising that in the wake of a massive and 104 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: lengthy conflict like this, there was a sort of sense 105 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: in Europe that the world had changed, but there wasn't 106 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: really a clear vision of what it had changed into 107 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: or what the future was going to look like. And 108 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: as a consequence, people were unsettled and seeking refuge or 109 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: guidance in the ideas of philosophy and religion and mysticism, 110 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: and Johann George Shreffer found a path in that uncertainty 111 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: to gaining his own power and wealth, although ultimately that 112 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: path would lead him to an early death. Shreft first 113 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: served in the Prussian Army during the Seven Years War, 114 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: though in seventeen sixty one he appeared in like Szig 115 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: and he lived and worked there from then on, so 116 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like he stayed in the military all 117 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: the way until the war ended later in the seventeen sixties. 118 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: In August of seventeen sixty one, he became a citizen 119 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: of Leipzig and started operating a wine tavern in the city. 120 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: Just a month later, he married a tailor's daughter from 121 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Leipzig named Johanna Katerina Hair and then after several years 122 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: in the business, Johan left his first tavern. He started 123 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: running a coffee shop in the center of town called Vice. 124 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: Later's coffee were shopped and that was at the corner 125 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: of cluster Gas and Barfuscassen. If you look at that 126 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: intersection today you can see it's still pretty much right 127 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: at the center of Leipzig. That business wasn't when that 128 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: shrep first started from scratch. It had already been in operation. 129 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: It was well known when he took it over in 130 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty nine that would become the epicenter of his 131 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: mystical demonstrations. At some point in his life, Schrepfer became 132 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: involved in free masonry, and as we've covered on the 133 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: show before, freemasonry grew out of Stonemason guilds of the 134 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: Middle Ages and then expanded to include members outside of 135 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: that vocation. Freemason groups, which were organized into lodges, were 136 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: spread throughout Europe and became numerous enough that they started 137 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: to organize in groups of lodges under Grand lodges. The 138 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: first of those Grand lodges was founded in seventeen seventeen 139 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: in England, and because of the widespread nature of the lodges, 140 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,599 Speaker 1: some of them began to incorporate different symbolism and rituals 141 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: into their philosophies and meetings. There's really some debate about 142 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: whether Strepper really became a member of the Freemasons or 143 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: if you may have just been part of a group 144 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: in Nuremberg, but at the time he was showing interest 145 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,239 Speaker 1: in the group in Leipzig. There were two primary branching 146 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: ideologies within Freemasonry. One was what's often called the Scottish 147 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Lodge or the Templar Lodge, and that was considered the 148 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: group of rict observance. They sought to attain a full 149 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: understanding of the world and spiritual matters, was often referred 150 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: to as highest knowledge, and they were doing that through research. 151 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: And then the other was a group that was more 152 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: aligned with Rosicrucianism. This branch sought knowledge and understanding through 153 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: means that we might describe today as metaphysical or even paranormal, 154 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: and this could include everything from practicing magic to contacting 155 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: the spirit realm. Streppord was a lot more interested in 156 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: the more mystical ideology. Yeah, this is a very simplified 157 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: version of all of the things going on in freemasonry. 158 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: I feel like that's one of those topics that every 159 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: time it comes up we have to caveat that, like 160 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: partially because it was a secret society and it still exists, 161 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: but much more secretive at this point. There are a 162 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: lot of mock nations of it that are we only 163 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: know through various accounts that again contradict each other. Right, 164 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: Like that whole Templar thing, there's some that believe that 165 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: the Knights of tem Plar could somehow be contacted through 166 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: through various means and like regain power and um, there 167 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: was a lot going on. There's also the idea that 168 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: there were rose agrusions that joined the Freemasons to kind 169 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: of plant those more mystical seeds and like start this division. 170 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: I did not dig into all of that, just know 171 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of stuff like that going on 172 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: in the backdrop of this story. At this point, though, 173 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: the main lodge of Leipzig, which was called Minerva zoom Zircle, 174 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: which is Minerva to the Circle in English. Um, and 175 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: Minerva was in the strict observance camp, which Shrubber found frustrating, 176 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: and he came to the conclusion that such a limited 177 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: approach to gaining knowledge of spiritual matters was a corruption 178 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: of the goals of Freemasonry, and that Minerva Lodge was 179 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: inherently unprincipled. So he started his own lodge out of 180 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: the coffee house, and the member roster of his lodge 181 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: actually grew pretty rapidly because, in breaking from the mainstream Freemasons, 182 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: Shrepford took in members who had been denied entry into Minerva. 183 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: He also admitted women into his lodge, which was absolutely 184 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: forbidden by Freemasonry at the time. That's a whole other 185 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: complicated issue. Uh. And because he was quite charismatic, Shrepfer 186 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: also managed to lure away members of the Minerval Lodge 187 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: who had been in good standing but also felt like 188 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: they weren't learning everything they could. He also publicly spoke 189 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: out against the Minerval Lodge. He claimed that his new 190 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: group was closer to the ideals of Freemasonry, and he 191 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: went so far as to write and distribute a pamphlet 192 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: about freemasonry. He distributed that all over the town. This 193 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: was considered a really aggressive thing to do because in 194 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: that pamphlet he disclosed detailed information about the Minerval Lodge 195 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: initiation rituals. These were considered Freemason secrets. He also accused 196 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: the Leipsig Lodge of taking money from members as part 197 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: of promoting them to higher levels of masonry, and of 198 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: lying to new members by promising them more knowledge and 199 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: enlightenment than they could actually deliver. I had to say 200 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: he was sort of a genius of a smear campaign, right, 201 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: Like he knew exactly how to position this whole thing 202 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: to be, Like, they are exploiting your desire for knowledge. 203 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: I will show you knowledge, and I'm not corrupt like them. Uh. 204 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: That smear campaign was not well received, but Shrefford continued 205 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: to escalate his accusations until he had gotten so aggressive 206 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: about it he was finally arrested for disorderly conduct over it. 207 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: He was also sentenced to what is listed in the 208 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: historical record as two hundred are sprugle if you speak German. 209 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: I hope I did not offend you with that, because 210 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: that translates in the kindest terms two lashes on the behind. 211 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: The literal translation that I got when running it through 212 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: an internet translator was a little less appropriate for an 213 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: all ages show for a clean rated podcast. Yeah. So, 214 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: in addition to that physical punishment, he also had to 215 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: sign a document that acknowledged his crime and its consequences 216 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: to be punished in the papers of the town. And 217 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: while presses did indeed run that document with shrepford signature, 218 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: he claimed that the signature was forged and that he 219 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: had never been punished. He continued to say publicly that 220 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: the freemasonry of the Minerva Lodge was illegitimate. But though 221 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: many thought he was being a nuisance and a pain 222 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: in the neck, he was able to acquire a letter 223 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: from the Grand Master of Freemasonry in Germany that validated 224 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: him as a freemason. Not only did this give validation 225 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: to his sort of separate branch order, but it also 226 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: meant that he could go to the Manerval Lodge if 227 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: he wanted to, even as he continued to speak out 228 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: against it. And yes, it is absolutely valid to wonder 229 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: if that document was legit. Coming up, we'll talk about 230 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: the nature of the meetings that shrep Fer's coffee house. First, 231 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: we will pause for a quick sponsor break. We mentioned 232 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: Johann Schrepfer's Coffee House Lodge and its policy to admit 233 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: people that Minerva Lodge would not. That doesn't mean that 234 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: it was open to anyone. Prospective members had to pass 235 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: a screening, which was conducted by Schrepfer himself. And this 236 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: is where we really have to start discussing what the 237 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: Coffee House Lodge was actually doing at its meetings and initiations. 238 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: We mentioned already that Schrepfer was interested in the more 239 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: mystical approach to attaining higher knowledge. So Johan's leadership of 240 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: these meetings at the coffee House quickly turned into demonstrations 241 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: of necromancy. For a quick point of clarification here, a 242 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: lot of times in modern pop culture storytelling, necromancy is 243 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: associated with things like reanimating the dead, But the real 244 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: definition of necromancy is conjuring spirits of the dead, are 245 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: communicating with the dead, often as a divination tool or 246 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: in a wider sense, using magic or sorcery. So when 247 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: we say Schrepfer was engaging in necromancy, that's what we're 248 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: talking about, the sense of conjuring spirits, not reanimating the dead. No, 249 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: this is not a zombie story. I apologize if you 250 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: were hoping from these conjurings have been called performances and 251 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: Shrepfer is usually described as a Charlottean, but his ability 252 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: to convince people who attended these meetings that they were 253 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: in the presence of other worldly spirits was pretty impressive. 254 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: In these ritual Schrepfer would show his followers either what 255 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: he called numatis or pneumatic necromancy, which he straight up 256 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: just called directly to spirits, or as an alternate elementary 257 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: or elementary necromancy, in which he used light to bring 258 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: forth spirits. Accounts of these ceremonies described seeing apparitions that 259 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: were clear as day to everybody present, although they had 260 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: a vapor like quality because Shepford would call up spirits 261 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: from other time periods. Their clothing was described as having 262 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: been appropriately period. Although how many of the people giving 263 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: these accounts were experts on historical clothing. That's certainly worth wondering. 264 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: I know, I'll see something in a movie and be like, 265 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: that looks great and it is super wrong. All you 266 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: need to do to know how not correct people have 267 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: various time period clothing is do a search for Victorian 268 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: dress on the Internet and you'll get a million Edwardian 269 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: things Like this isn't necessarily like a big important problem. 270 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: Let's you're doing it. I'm just saying it's worth questioning 271 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: the account of correct period dress in these spirits. Right. So, 272 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: attendees also marveled at seeing spirits in various emotional states, 273 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: including just obvious distress. Shrepfer put his conjured spirits into 274 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: three categories, which were good, medium, and damned. I don't 275 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: know why that scale tickles me, cracks me up, like 276 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: you're good, you're damned, Medium, like like is that partially damned? 277 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: I don't know what I feel like this inspired the 278 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: good place. I think you're not far off. It's a 279 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: similar approach. So these ceremonies began late at night, usually midnight, 280 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: and as the methodologies of set up are examined, things, 281 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: of course start to seem pretty suspicious. So, for one, 282 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: Shrepford would insist that no one could stand up from 283 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: the table where they were seated during these That was, 284 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: according to Johann, because they would be in sere is 285 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: danger if they did, and he could not control the 286 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: spirits if humans were up and moving around. One way 287 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: Stretford convinced people that he truly was conjuring the spirits 288 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: of the dead was by bringing spectral versions of famous 289 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: people to the seance table that includes prior podcast subject 290 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: Johann Friedrich Struancy and his friend Intervaled Brent, who were 291 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: executed in seventeen seventy two for manipulating King Christian the 292 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: seventh of Denmark by exploiting his mental instability. The trial 293 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: and execution had been widely reported throughout Europe, and so 294 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: this would have been a really thrilling and sensational duo 295 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: to appear in spectral form at these seances. Not only 296 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: did they appear to shred first followers, they also did 297 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: so while holding their decapitated heads. That would be um, 298 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: That would be a wower, very dramatic. Yes, Shrepford did 299 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: not keep these ceremonies confined just to his coffee house. 300 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: He actually traveled with them. He performed several such necromancy 301 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: rituals in Dresden in seventeen seventy three and seventy four, 302 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: and in some instances when he was doing these, he 303 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: would do tricks like send a spirit away on an 304 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: errand far away and then have them return with some 305 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: sort of evidence of their projection elsewhere, like a note 306 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: that was signed by someone known to be in another 307 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: town or city, to show his command of the spirit world. 308 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: Shrepfor once conjured a spirit that appeared to the gather 309 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: people surrounded by flames and pleading for the necromancer Shrepfor 310 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: to torture him no more. In that particular instance, Johan 311 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: said that it had been too dangerous a trick and 312 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: that he would never repeat it. He also would not 313 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: take requests. A person attending one of his ceremonies couldn't 314 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: in the course of the ceremony asked for a specific 315 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: person to be brought forth from the afterlife. Who was 316 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: called was generally entirely up to Shrepfor, and he would 317 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: also perform magic, sometimes out in the open of the countryside, 318 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: allegedly causing storms to run in or to cause stars 319 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: to shift their brightness. When a ritual or ceremony was over, 320 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: Shpford used familiar religious symbols and tools to wrap things up. 321 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: He brought out a crucifix that he said helped keep 322 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: attendants safe. He would bless the people who were present. 323 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: He would also use holy water, although whether this water 324 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: truly had been blessed is not known. He also used 325 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: these things to bring himself down from the experience. He 326 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: was said to have had to fight off demonic energies 327 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: as he performed his rituals, and the crucifix, he told 328 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: his followers was a way to help keep himself as 329 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: well as them safe. He made it clear that he 330 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: could be killed by this very dangerous work. I feel 331 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: like he's such a great showman. Uh and Johan's interviews 332 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: with potential new members. Remember we were talking about who 333 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: he let in was right in line theatrically with the 334 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: secret meetings. So these encounters with potential members would begin 335 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: pretty benignly with a little bit of chat. He would 336 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: ask the person about their thoughts on spirituality in the afterlife, 337 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: and he would claim then that the integrity of the 338 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: applicant was reflected in glasses of water which he had 339 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: had set out on the table between them. So he 340 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: would pick up the water and examine it, and if 341 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: it was cloudy when he looked at it, or it 342 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: tasted odd, he would proclaim that the person's intentions were 343 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: not genuine and they should not be admitted. But if 344 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: the water was clear and tasted correct to Shrepfor, they 345 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: were accepted and initiated because they were trustworthy. This whole 346 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: system was of course devised by Shrepfor It's not as 347 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: though you could point to any written ancient text and 348 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: see this weird water ritual, so no one could ever 349 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: claim that he had executed this examination incorrectly. As his 350 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: group of followers grew, Shrepfort made another bold move in 351 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: mid seventeen seventy four. He staged a coup at the 352 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: Minerva Lodge. He literally went into a meeting with a 353 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: pistol and forced the lodge master out at gunpoint, and 354 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: then appointed himself as the new master. And this worked. 355 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 1: We have talked about Shrepford drawing a lot of followers 356 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: while also courting legal trouble for harassing the Freemason Lodge 357 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: of Leipzig, But one of the things we have not 358 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: talked about a whole lot is his critics, and he 359 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: had a lot. This is not a case where modern 360 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: eyes can really look at what he was doing in 361 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: the seventeen sixties and seventeen seventies and say, oh, clearly 362 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: he was in Charlottan and people then were fools. You 363 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: can't have any sort of superiority about that because people 364 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: at the time we're saying that, and he was deeply controversial, 365 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: as you might imagine as someone who walks into a 366 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: private meeting with a weapon and takes over would be 367 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: and launching a public campaign of criticism against the existing 368 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: Minerva Freemason Lodge and then creating his own group of followers. 369 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: Shepherd had also established his own faction of defenders. By 370 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: the time he took over the Freemason Lodge, his followers 371 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: were ready to go up against any detractors. It's often 372 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: played out in writing and the papers of the day 373 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: as doubters sent spies to his ceremonies and seances to 374 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: try to get proof that this whole thing was a fraud. 375 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: There were accounts from some planted attendees that they recognized 376 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: some of the ghosts as people they knew and their 377 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: everyday lives. In one instance, a doubter quietly locked the 378 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: door to the ceremony room as he entered, which resulted 379 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: in the spirits not being able to get in. Yeah, 380 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: that was like a clear hey, you know why you 381 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: can't conjure spirits because I locked the door, dude. Um. 382 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: But his believers were absolutely not having this when even 383 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: when they were confronted with these cases where people had 384 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: obviously thwarted Schrepfer's performances, his believers dug in. They were 385 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: into hiredly certain that they had seen the veil between 386 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: the physical world and the spirit realm fall, and that 387 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: Schrepfer had caused it and was orchestrating these amazing things. 388 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: And the thing was, no one was able to come 389 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: up with a solid idea regarding how exactly he had 390 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: accomplished some of the things that they had seen. Even 391 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: the skeptics were a little troubled by this. We're going 392 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: to circle back to this in a moment. One very 393 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: common theory that's often discussed in all of this, particularly 394 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: in the case of Schrepfer's hardcore believers, is that he 395 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: was manipulating their state of mind in various ways. Often 396 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: the descriptions of the pre seance rituals involved things like fasting. 397 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: Then the attendees were given some refreshments, which Schrepfer provided. 398 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: One item that comes up repeatedly in stands out as 399 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: kind of odd is salad. But there was it was 400 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: also punched. There was a whole lot of punch. So 401 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that people who had eaten for a while, 402 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: we're then put into a very dark room and given 403 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: something intoxicating, they would probably buy into some things that 404 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: might not pass scrutiny in the light of day with 405 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: a clear head. They were not drinking a bunch of 406 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: punch on a mostly empty stomach. Listen, if I don't 407 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: eat enough protein on a regular basis, I see spirits. 408 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: I mean coming up, We're going to talk about the 409 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: claims that started to unravel shrep first public persona, and 410 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: we will get to all of that after we hear 411 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: from the sponsors. To keep stuff you missed in history 412 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: class going in sevent shrep Fer claimed that he was 413 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: a French nobleman and that his name was Baron stein 414 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: von Steinbach. When he visited Dresden to perform at court, 415 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: he was not appearing as himself. He had basically taken 416 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: on this other persona. This lie caught up to him 417 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: pretty quickly when a French envoy to Saxony heard of 418 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: the alleged French noble with connections to the spirit realm 419 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: and asked shrepp for for documentation of his French lineage. 420 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: This obviously fell apart, but Schrepfer is said to have 421 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: performed quite a thrilling and terrifying seance even after his 422 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: unmasking by all of this, but though he had supporters there, 423 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: he also had a lot of people that wanted him gone, 424 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: and this whole like pretending to be someone he wasn't 425 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: had not helped matters, so he soon left, dresseden and 426 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: went back to Leipzig. Throughout all of this, and even 427 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: when money was tight for a lot of people in 428 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: Saxony and Leipzig specifically, Shrepfer always seemed to be doing 429 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: okay financially. Most of his money at this point seems 430 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: to have been coming from high ranking believers who were 431 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: loaning him money with the understanding that he was using 432 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: it to further his work of achieving an understanding of 433 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: the highest knowledge and that he was going to share 434 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: that knowledge with them. There also appears to have been 435 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: a promise that he was using his clairvoyant abilities to 436 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: solve the financial problems of the region, but the debts 437 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: and the false promises were quickly outpacing his ability to 438 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: live up to them. Yeah, it's unclear if that weird 439 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: choice to pretend to be a French noble might have 440 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: been part of an effort in a money making scheme. 441 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: We don't really know, but on the night of October seventh, 442 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy four, Shrepford is said to have performed a 443 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: seance at his coffee house, and his ritual had been 444 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: so powerful as to bring several spirits to the group. 445 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: So many spirits and in such strong manifestations, it was 446 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: said that Shrepfer suggested that instead of closing the normal way, 447 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: that everyone present leave and just allow the spirits to 448 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: disperse on their own. There are also accounts that he 449 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: had a dinner with some of his closest friends that night, 450 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: but some time after midnight, Johan suggested they all go 451 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: for a walk, and he told those that were with 452 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: him that they were going to be part of another 453 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: significant happening and indicated that it was singular and unusual, 454 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: like basically, we're going to go into the woods and 455 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you something very special. They went 456 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: to a forest known as the Rosenthal and shrep Fur 457 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: peeled off from the group. Shortly thereafter, a shot was 458 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: heard and Shrepfer was found dead, apparently of suicide. Most 459 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: of the accounts of the people who were with Johan 460 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: in the forest that night indicated that he was, as 461 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: we just stated, dead when they found him, but there 462 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: were a few people who claimed he was not dead 463 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: but injured, and that he had vanished before them as 464 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: though he was crossing through the veil that he had 465 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: so frequently skirted, as he had in these seances. For 466 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: some there were hopes that the death was part of 467 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: what would be Shrepfer's greatest performance of necromancy, that he 468 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: would raise his own spirit from the beyond on. Surely 469 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: that would prove the depth of his enlightened knowledge. But 470 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: the evidence that Shrepford left behind was void of any 471 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: mystical promise. Quite the contrary, he had written letters to 472 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: his closest friends telling them that he intended to end 473 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: his life. He had also told his wife this. He 474 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: left behind a heavy parcel. It said it contained, he claimed, 475 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: the secrets he wanted his followers to know. So imagine 476 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: holding such a box full of possibility, and then the 477 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: disappointment of opening it to find underclothes and rocks there 478 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: was nothing in there. Now, this is another point where 479 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: we find two very different versions of this story specifically 480 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: related to this package of rocks and underclothes, although no 481 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: one seems to have any variation on the fact that 482 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: it contained those items and nothing mystical, But in one 483 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: version that parcel is opened before Shrepford's death, and that 484 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: is the moment at which he realized he had been 485 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: revealed to fraud and had no way out. We should 486 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: note too that though his death was ruled a suicide, 487 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: there have been from the moment it happens, people who 488 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: ardently believed that someone else was involved, and either that 489 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: he was murdered or that he was forced to take 490 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: his own life. Even after his death, Johann George Schrepfer 491 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: was an issue of debate. In seventeen seventy five, so 492 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 1: just a year after he died, theologian Christian August Crucius 493 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: wrote an opinion article about Schrepfer and his work, in 494 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: which he cited an account by an observer who remained anonymous. 495 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: He was basically saying, I talked to a person who 496 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: said this. Chrusis main concern was not even whether the 497 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: necromancer was the real deal or not. It was the 498 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: fact that he had blasphemously combined Catholic and Pagan rituals, 499 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: something Crutius saw as a harbinger of the Antichrist's coming. 500 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: But that publication was itself criticized as being extremist and 501 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: alarmist and lacking in real critical thinking. As discussion of 502 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: Schrepfer's work and Crusius's take on it continued, there emerged 503 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: a fairly popular take, particularly among intellectuals, that one Shrepford 504 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: had been a charlatan, and two his believers were people 505 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: who were gullible or people who were just playing desperate 506 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: to find a little hope, or in the case of Freemasons, 507 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: were people who fully expected some sort of enlightening and 508 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: mystical phenomena to be shown to them, because that was 509 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of the promise. One of the great German words 510 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: that I came across while reading about this whole debate 511 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: among scholars and theologians was hocus pocus strika, which is 512 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: hocus pocus pranks. I love that word to some degree. 513 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: Shred Fer's brief blaze as a mystical leader, remember this 514 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: only happened over the course of a couple of years, 515 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: had kind of opened the door to discussing the idea 516 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: of magic and mysticism among intellectuals in a way that 517 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: was current and had real world implications. While no historians 518 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: would agree that Shepford was not actually conjuring spirits, there 519 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: is some debate about whether he might have thought that 520 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: he was. Some of his personal writing does, according to historians, 521 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: seem to suggest that he was trying to truly devise 522 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: a magical system that explained ways to connect with the 523 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: spirit realm. Yeah, there are some theories that like, even 524 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: though he was staging things, he saw those any actors 525 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: or tools he was using as kind of like ways 526 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: that he was helping to manifest things that he may 527 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: have believed. I don't know that I buy into that, 528 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: but it's an interesting way to look at it. Uh. 529 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: There are two artifacts associated with Shrepford that are part 530 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: of the collection of the Museum natural in Cabinet Waldenburg. 531 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: Through these items we get a little more information about 532 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: exactly how Shrepford convinced people that he had brought forth 533 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: spirits with his rituals we mentioned earlier in the epoch, 534 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: so that even skeptics had difficulty figuring out how Strepford 535 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: might be achieving some of the visual effects that they 536 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: saw in his seance performances. And the connection between that 537 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: mystery and these objects is through one of shred first friends, 538 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: Johann Heinrich Linked. The younger Link had a father with 539 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: the exact same name, and sometimes even in places you 540 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: would think would get it right. It's the elder Link 541 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: that shrep Fir's name is connected to. That's impossible though. 542 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: Johann Heinrich Link, the Elder died in seventeen thirty four 543 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: before Sherepford was even born. Link the Younger, like his father, 544 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: was a pharmacist. That's part of the problem with those 545 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: two getting confused. There is also another Johan Link that 546 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: spells his name slightly differently, that also worked in naturalism 547 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: and botany. They all three get very, very very mixed 548 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: up in the historical record. But Link the Younger that 549 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about today was a member of the Minerva Lodge, 550 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: and Link is said to have met Schrepfer because Shrepford 551 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: needed the help of a pharmacist to prepare the various 552 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: things that he gave his followers in preparation for ceremonies. 553 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: But it turned out that Link was also a hobbyist 554 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: in the area of things like optics, and that is 555 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: how we discover two devices that were listed in Link's 556 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: personal catalog as having been used in spiritual demonstrations that 557 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: he staged with Schrepfer in the garden of his house. 558 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: The first of these objects as a magic lantern. This 559 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: is a sort of proto slide projector, consisting of a 560 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: metal box with a slit in it. The user would 561 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: insert a small painted glass plate into that slit. With 562 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: a light source inside the box a candle. An image 563 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: would be projected through a simple lens, and there was 564 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: also a small chimney shaped attachment to the tops of 565 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: the hot air from the candle could escape. The other 566 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: item in the museum collection associated with Strepfer and Link 567 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: working together is a geyster costom or ghost box. This 568 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: is a variation on lantern of magica. It's made to 569 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: look like a miniature coffin. It's very cool. Um. So 570 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: these two items pretty clearly point out that they are 571 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: using focus focus. Uh. There were though, people who theorized 572 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: that something like these objects was being used in shrep 573 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: Fers gathering. Uh, it just had never been proven. And 574 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: in that back and forth about morality and gullibility that 575 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: we talked about playing out in the press in the 576 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: years following Shrepfer's death, writer Frederick Nikolai had gotten pretty 577 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: close to describing this illusion, writing quote, as for me, 578 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: I think the whole thing is an artificial scam. If 579 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: the other circumstances agree, then I would have the suspicion 580 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: that a magic lantern was primarily used there. The following 581 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: circumstances also strengthened my suspicion of a magic lantern. The 582 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: spirits seemed to move without moving their feet, only as 583 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: if floating. By moving the image in the magic lantern, 584 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: one can let the operation float away, but not in 585 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: part any particular movement to the feet. For the same reason, 586 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: the spirits must have carried their arms and hands on 587 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: their chests. They also appear in different light. The faces 588 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: of the spirits looked like formed haze, which can even 589 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: be accomplished by means of smoke. The two mirrors in 590 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: which he often used to look give further reason for 591 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: this suspicion. These objects have given shep for an interesting 592 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: legacy that's outside of any of his mystical claims or controversies. 593 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: He's often cited as an inspiration for the phantasmagoria hard 594 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: theater trend that started in Europe and the decades after 595 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: his death. Talked about that trend on the show before 596 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: some promoters even advertised their shows as being shrep foresque 597 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,399 Speaker 1: and it is an illustration of one of those that 598 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: will be on our social media, uh when we post 599 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: about this episode. Yes, yeah, Shreffer is a weird one. 600 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: It's very interesting to me because he is one where 601 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: if you do any reading on him, and there isn't 602 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: a lot in English language, most of it is in German. 603 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: But it's almost as though every person who has ever 604 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: written about him takes a very different approach to it 605 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: and focuses on like a different aspect of his short 606 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: but very fascinating life. Um. Like, some will focus a 607 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: lot on that claim that he was a French noble 608 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: and that he was using that. Some will focus more 609 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: on like the idea of him as a necromancer. Others 610 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: will focus more on him kind of waging this war 611 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: with freemasons. But they're all kind of happening simultaneously in 612 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: a very very just over the course of a couple 613 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: of years. So uh, it's a fascinating thing to try 614 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: to pull apart such a brief period of time of 615 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: one person that is kind of jam packed with so 616 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: much weirdness. Um. I have a couple of pieces of 617 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: listener male. The first one is from our listener Katherine, 618 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: who writes about Henry the Eight's armor. Sure, it's high. 619 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: I enjoyed hearing about the field of Cloth of Gold 620 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: in today's episode. I had never heard of it before. 621 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: When you mentioned Henry's armor, it made me think of 622 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: this video I saw years ago. A man in typical 623 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: Nights armor races through an obstacle course against a firefighter 624 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: and soldier wearing first light and then full gear armor. 625 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 1: It's surprising how nimble all of them are while wearing 626 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: such cumbersome outfits. Uh, and then attaches a picture of 627 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: her kitty who thinks nothing is better than completely messing 628 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: up the table cloth, unless it's maybe playing with an 629 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: ice cube. That cat is real cute and it looks 630 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: very autumnal. So I'm very very happy. Uh, Katie, thank 631 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: you so much for this one. I had mentioned in 632 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: that episode on field of Cloth of Gold or behind 633 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: the scenes, I don't remember which, that there is a 634 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: a museum video. I think I listed it in the 635 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: show notes for the main episode that you can go 636 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: see where someone has put on like that, that very 637 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: very articulated armor of his and they're showing just how 638 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: much movement it had. So I wanted to mention that 639 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: because it is fascinating. Yeah, I watched that video when 640 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: we got that email, and uh I had I don't 641 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: remember how many minutes long it was, but I was like, 642 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: what a nice little break to start my day watching 643 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: this uh um. And I am still talking about butterfly 644 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: so uh but this is one of such joy and discovery. 645 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: Several people have written to us to mention that, yes, 646 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: absolutely still happening, kids visiting uh monarch um, you know 647 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: science setups. I do want to mention because our listener 648 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: Anna wrote or Anna, I'm not sure which way she 649 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: pronounces it, that she gave a shout out to the 650 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 1: Detroit Zoo, which has apparently a permanent uh and excellent 651 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: butterfly exhibits. So if you're in that area, check that 652 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: one out. But my other listener mail is actually from 653 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: our listener Christine, who it's hello. I am so happy 654 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: to finally have something to share with you at the 655 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 1: perfect time. A couple of weeks ago, I was traveling 656 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: in Quebec and stopped at this roadside hotel. I was 657 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: walking my pup along the parking lot not far from 658 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: the highway and saw something yellow and black in the milkweed. 659 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: With a wasp allergy in the family, I am always 660 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: attuned to yellow and black bugs, but as I look closer, 661 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: my heart skipped a beat. I have known for years 662 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: that milkweed is important to monarch butterflies, but I have 663 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: never seen monarch caterpillars in real life, let alone at 664 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: a roadside hotel. There were four that I could see, 665 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 1: and I didn't look very hard. Check out the photos attached. 666 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: I've also attached to photo of what I think is 667 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: a cartoon, but you mentioned they don't tend to do 668 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: that on the milkweed. After a long long drive, seeing 669 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: these beauties completely brought me peace. I'm also sharing photos 670 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: from our travels of Dexter. My beagle puppy, who will 671 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: be one in mid September, says, by the way, did 672 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: you ever have T shirts made for people who have 673 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,240 Speaker 1: listened to the entire stuff you missed in history class catalog? 674 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: I still have about two D fifty to go, but 675 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: I feel the will be an achievement I will be 676 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: very proud of the answer to that question is yes. 677 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: It's on our T public site and it says I 678 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: have my PhD in s y um. I think HC. 679 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: I literally am liked. Am I getting these letters out 680 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: of order because I will do it to and I'm 681 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: not looking directly at it. Um, but she shared her 682 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: beautiful pictures of monarchs. It's not completely unheard of for 683 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: them to put I don't think um one of their 684 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: cocoons on milkweed. It's just not as common as as 685 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: other things. But we have to talk about this beagle 686 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: puppy because Dexter is extraordinary. Beagles are very much beloved 687 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: in the fry household. That is my husband's favorite, favorite 688 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of dog. He grew up with a beagle mix 689 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: that he absolutely adored named Digby. Um. So this dog 690 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: is weaponized, cute, It's the cutest thing on the planet 691 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: and dangerous because beagles are smart and they will take 692 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: your credit card and buy things, is what I think 693 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: in my head. Um, they won't. Really, Dexter's an angel, 694 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: I have no doubt. But Christine, thank you because that 695 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: is such a joyous little discovery moment and I love 696 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: the idea that people are are out looking for butterflies 697 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: more than ever now. Uh, if you would like to 698 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: share any such moments of discovery or information, you can 699 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: do that. It's easy as pie. You can just write 700 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: to us at History Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 701 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media as Missed 702 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: in History pretty much everywhere, and you can subscribe to 703 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: the podcast on the iHeart radio app or wherever you 704 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History 705 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more 706 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart radio app, 707 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.