1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Calavoynan, wicked wizard grasps the handle of his broadsword, asks 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: the blade this simple question, tell me, O, my blade 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: of honor, dost thou wish to drink my life blood? 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: Drink the blood of Calivoynin. Thus his trusty sword makes 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: answer well, divining his intentions, Why should I not drink 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: thy life blood, blood of guilty Calivoynin? Since I feast 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: upon the worthy, drink the life blood of the righteous. 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Thereupon the youth Colervo, wicked Wizard of the north Land, 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: lifts the mighty sword of Uko, DIDs adou to earth 10 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: in heaven, firmly thrust the hilt in heather to his heart, 11 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: he points the weapon, throws his weight upon the broadsword, 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: pouring out his wicked life blood. Air be journeys to Manala. 13 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: Thus the wizard finds destruction. This the end of colivoidment. 14 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: Born in sin and nursed in folly. Welcome to Stuff 15 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: to Blow your mind Production of My Heart Radio. Hey, 16 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is 17 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And what you just 18 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: heard was an excerpt from Room thirty five of the 19 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: Finnish epic the Kalavala, as translated by John Martin Crawford 20 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: in Uh, it's a famous scene from the text um 21 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: that has been depicted in art. You'll find depictions of 22 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: it in public statues. Uh. There was one that I 23 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: was able to pull up here for us, Joe, for 24 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: our notes, where you see this very stoic, very grim 25 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: looking figure standing there gripping the laid of his sword, 26 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: not the not the hilt, but the actual blade of 27 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: it as he contemplates deep dark thoughts. Now, as for 28 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: the things that are draped over his midsection, is this 29 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: just sort of straps or from the pelt that have 30 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: tassels like a scarf might have, or are those the 31 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: paws of what was a bear skin with the claws 32 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: still on them. They to me, they look like the 33 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: claws of an animal skin. Yeah. But the way they 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: wrapped around him, it looks like he's being hugged from 35 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: behind by a very flattened bear. That's kind of like 36 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: reaching down onto his thighs in a funny looking way. Now, 37 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: that the Calavaya for anyone who's not familiar. But this 38 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: is the national epic of Finland and nineteenth century work 39 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: based on on on Caroline and finish, folklore and mythology 40 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: concerning the creation of the world, the exploits of heroes 41 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and villains, as well as the magical sampo. So this 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: has been this has been given the cinematic treatment a 43 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: few different times over the years, and I know we've 44 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: we've heard from listeners about some of those depicts and 45 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: about just the uh, the epic itself. I myself, if 46 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: have have yet to read it in full, but I 47 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: have to say, after this, um, this little cold open 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: reading here, I really like the cadence of it. I 49 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: like the cadence of this translation. So perhaps I'll dive 50 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: back in at some point. Yeah, it's on my mental 51 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: list as well. But so what's going on in the 52 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: scene that you read? Okay, So this scening question concerns 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: the character uh Klavo, who of course is also referred 54 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: to as Colorvoi in in this uh this this particular translation. 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: And he's a tragic and doomed character. Uh. He has 56 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: this he needs, having this conversation with the unnamed but 57 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: clearly sentient blade that he wields. Uh. There's an element 58 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: of edifice to the character Theo, and he's also something 59 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: of a of a wizard obviously is described as an 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: evil wizard. Uh. So there's a lot going on here. 61 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: But the interesting thing for our purposes is that the 62 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: sword speaks. The sword seems to keep a history of itself. 63 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: It knows what it has done, it knows who it 64 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: is killed, in the character of those that it is killed. Um, 65 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: and there's a sense of the blade has some sort 66 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: of will of its own, even if in this case 67 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: it's more of a bloodthirsty indifference to whoever's blood it 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: happens to spill. Is it like a kind of propaganda 69 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: that justifies its own use? Yeah, I mean it, It 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: kind of makes sense, right, I mean the sword, what 71 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: does the sword want? Well, in this case, the sword 72 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: just wants to spill blood. It doesn't care if it's 73 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: righteous blood, it doesn't care if it's evil blood. Uh, 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: it just wants blood. Now, if this particular scene sounds familiar, 75 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: you know it is clearly echoed in the famous is 76 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: this a Dagger which I see before me monologue from 77 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: William Shakespeare's Macbeth. And I've also read that Hamlet too 78 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: was at least in part inspired by this this uh, 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: this finished tale that these finished legends. Um. Of course, 80 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: in Macbeth, the dagger does not answer the doomed king. Um, 81 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: he's just speaking to it. He's just, you know, he's 82 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: kind of making it the focus of his monologue. But 83 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: there is an interesting history of speaking swords in myth 84 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: and legend, and of course this also spills over into 85 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: the existence of various speaking weapons in fiction. Um. One 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: of the most notable, at least for me, would would 87 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: be the sentient weapons of dungeons and Dragons, particularly the 88 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: sword Black Razor, which has been around and the Dungeons 89 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: and Dragons lore for a while. But we should we 90 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: should also mention some other, perhaps um less obvious examples 91 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: of of intelligent weapons, especially from the film Who Framed 92 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit? I think these are actually parodies of old 93 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: like Loony Tunes conventions, But there is a sword that 94 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: sings in it right, right, It's kind of a Frank 95 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: Sinatra cartoon Frank Sinatra sword. And uh, it's been a 96 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: long time since I've seen Roger Rabbit. I remember the 97 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: sword being fairly useless, like it seemed more interested in 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: singing and crooning as opposed to being a proper stabbling implement. 99 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: And again it had a will out its own. What 100 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: if there was a sword who just wanted to day ants. 101 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: But but the other thing is, I remember in this 102 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: movie there are like sentient bullets like, uh, what's his name? 103 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: Bob Hoskins gets out of a bunch of bullets to 104 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: put in his gun, and their cartoon like Old West 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: cowboy bullets, and that one talks like a prospect or. Yeah. 106 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: I'd completely forgotten about this until you shared an image 107 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: with me. I think at least one of the bullets 108 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: as Pipper from Final Sacrifice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can. 109 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: It's been like again, it's been a long time, so 110 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: I've seen it. But looking at this still, I can. 111 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: I can hear that stereotypical like prospect or voice. Yeah. 112 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to discuss some examples 113 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: of speaking swords from myth and legend and literature and 114 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: maybe get into what it all means to a certain extent. Now, 115 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: the idea of a weapon that has a mind of 116 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: its own and can even talk and talk to its bearer, uh, 117 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: it goes goes very far back, even farther back than 118 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: Balla Valla. In fact, it goes to the civilizations of 119 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: ancient Spopotamia and their myths. Yeah, because this and this 120 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: is one that's not just an old example, it's just 121 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: it's an example that checks off all the boxes of 122 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: what you want to find in a sentient weapon. It 123 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: is a shower the talking mace, which was a weapon 124 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: that was wielded by the hero god Ninurta. So this 125 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: would have been of Sumerian and then I think later 126 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: Babylonian mythology. Yeah, and um, And like a lot of 127 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: those gods, I think his his trajectory kind of changes 128 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: course over time. He's uh, he was at least initially 129 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: a god of spring, thunder showers and a protector of agriculture. 130 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: I've also seen him uh written about as being more 131 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: connected with the sun, and then in later traditions more 132 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: of like a warrior god. Um. And then he's there 133 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: are there are. There are also some some pretty famous 134 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: depictions of him. There's a like if you just go 135 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: to like a Wikipedia page about ancient Sumerian legend, you're 136 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: likely to see this image of non Urta with it 137 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: with thunderbolts, pursuing this wing a demon an zoo Um 138 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: who has stolen the tablets of destiny. Uh. It's pretty 139 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: famous image. Yeah, and like so much of that great 140 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: old Mesopotamian art, you get this kind of side view 141 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: of the characters right there there in profile as they're 142 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: striding forward. And Unnurta has absolutely fabulous calf muscles. Yes, 143 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: and in this image he has that he has thunderbolts. 144 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: But um, this other weapon is associated with him in 145 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: some of the old old writings. And this is this 146 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: is again Sharro or the Smasher of Thousands, and it 147 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: is a mace. Uh. And I'm gonna have a short 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: artifact episode coming up I think next week that gets 149 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: into this a little bit. But uh, just getting into 150 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: the idea of like why a mace? What is it? 151 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Is it about a mace? Uh? That would have been 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: important in ancient warfare and and basically it comes down 153 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: to the fact that, yeah, if you were fighting people 154 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: that did not have metal helmets, a mace was just 155 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: an absolutely devastating weapon to have. It became a symbol 156 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: of authority and many different cultures, and therefore it's exactly 157 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: the sort of thing that a powerful deity would wield 158 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: against monstrous enemies. I think of the mace as being 159 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: very prominently displayed in some some quite memorable ancient Egyptian art, 160 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: for example on the Narmer palette, which shows, of course, 161 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, the Pharaoh clutching the head of the conquered 162 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: enemy and raising the mace in the other hand. Uh, 163 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: it's sort of an image of total dominance. Yeah. Yeah, 164 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: Apparently the mace was the symbol of of Egyptian power 165 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: for a very long time, because that for for the 166 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: longest their armies only fought enemies with no armor or helmets, 167 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: and so the mace was just a dominant weapon to wield. Now, 168 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: as as far as Shahua goes, this was no typical mace. 169 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: This was a weapon that could speak, It could fly 170 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: across vast distances, and even take on the form of 171 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: a winged lion. As Abraham Amen points out in the 172 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: Monster Hunter's Handbook, the weapon was capable of smashing enemies 173 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: either on its own own or in the hands of 174 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: non Orta, and it also rain fire and venom down 175 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: on its enemies and allowed the hero god to slay 176 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,239 Speaker 1: this terrifying demon Azog, the one that we just described 177 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: from that that illustration. Wow. So, but of course us 178 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: just talking about it, you know, doesn't doesn't really give 179 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: it justice. You gotta you gotta go to the poetry, 180 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: or at least translations of the poetry, and in the 181 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: Sumerian poem Nenorta's Exploits. Uh yeah, there's a lot of 182 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: just beautiful violent language about our hero's use of the mace. 183 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: He said to pound Ausg's body as if it were 184 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: barley like in a mill or yea, like a mortar 185 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: and pestle. Yeah. Yeah, Like he's not going to just 186 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: knock down the monster and and and act like it's 187 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: a Friday that thirteenth movie. Oh, is the enemy dead? 188 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: I don't know. No, he's gonna go over and pound 189 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: that enemy into the ground with this mace. In fact, 190 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: such is the power of Choor that the condition of 191 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: the slain demon's body is compared to that of a 192 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: shipwrecked by a tidal wave. That's the demon you make 193 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: bread out of, yeah or pasta? Yeah. Now. Nnirta's Exploits 194 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: translation of it is available online, and there are little 195 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: bits of it that are you know, that that are 196 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: just lost. But it's well worth looking up and reading 197 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: through because it has all this awesome battle language in it. 198 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: But I want to read just a few quotes from 199 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: it that drive home mostly this idea of the weapon 200 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: as being the sentient speaking thing. Quote. At that moment, 201 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: the lord's battle mace looked towards the mountains, and Shahur 202 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: cried out aloud to its master. And then there's another 203 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: passage here, O beware, it said, concerned lee. The weapon 204 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: embraced him, whom it loved. The Shahur addressed Lord Nenirta. 205 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: Quote the weapon it's heart was reassured. It slapped its thighs. 206 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: The Sharhur began to run. It entered the rebel lands joyfully. 207 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: It reported the message to Lord Nenorta. And then there 208 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: is this one's great. The shower made the storm wind 209 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: rise to heaven, scattered the people like and then as 210 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: there's a fragment that's lost, it tore its venom alone 211 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: destroyed the townspeople. The destructive may set fire to the mountains. 212 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: The murderous weapons smashed skulls with its painful teeth. The club, 213 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: which tears out in trails, gnashed its teeth. The lance 214 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: was stuck into the ground, and the crevices filled with blood. 215 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: In the rebel lands, dogs lift it up like milk. 216 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: The enemy rose up, crying to wife and child, You 217 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: did not lift your arms in prayer to Lord Ninurta. 218 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: The weapon covered the mountains with dust, but did not 219 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: shake the heart of a zog. The shower threw its 220 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: arms around the neck of the lord. All right, so 221 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: this is a mace, a weapon that not only talks, 222 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: not only cries allowed to its beloved master, but it 223 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: also hugs its beloved master. Yeah, this is a weapon 224 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: that's not going to turn on you. This is not 225 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: a weapon where you're gonna be like where you ask 226 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: get hey, or things pretty bad and the weapons like, 227 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: yeah it's pretty bad. You should push, you should follow me. 228 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: Uh No, this is a mass that stands by you, now, 229 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: doesn't This weapon also essentially function as a long range 230 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: surveillance device, reporting information back to its bearer from a distance. Yeah, 231 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: it is um It is an extremely overpowered weapon. It's 232 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: befitting of a of a god hero. But yeah, we're 233 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: we're based on these passages and others. There's this idea 234 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: that it will fly ahead, it will report back, it 235 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: will fly into battle on its own. But it can also, 236 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: you know, very much be wielded as a traditional weapon 237 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: by um by Nenorta. So it does all of these things. 238 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: It also has these these powers of venom and fire. 239 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: It's just absolutely powerful. I think we're in Batman territory 240 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: here because it's kind of like overpowered in the way 241 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: Batman's gadgets are that he just has gadgets that like 242 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: there's no reason he should have. Yeah, and and this 243 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: one just yeah, this does everything you can imagine. It's 244 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: almost as if, like later traditions were like, this is great, 245 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: but let's tone it down a little bit, because I 246 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: don't know if people are going to believe it. But 247 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: like I said, it's it's it's amazing. It's an amazing weapon. 248 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: Sharer has shark repellent properties. That's right, Batman did have 249 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: shark repellent, just carried it around just in case. Than 250 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: now when it comes to to speaking weapons in other traditions. 251 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: We have to pay special attention to to Irish myth 252 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: and legend because it seems it seems a really good 253 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: place to to spend some time, not only for the 254 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: tales themselves, but because it's an area where we have 255 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: some some pretty solid papers written on the history of 256 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: it all. In particular, I was looking at gary are 257 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: Varners the Sword and Dagger in myth and Legend from 258 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: twenty twelve and Omens, Ordeals and Oracles on Demons and 259 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: weapons in early Irish texts from by Jacqueline Borsch Now. 260 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: Varner points out that Irish swords were said to retain 261 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: a memory of the acts committed with the weapon, and 262 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: a warrior would swear by these weapons, but also could 263 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: be rebuked by the sword if they did not speak 264 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: true uh and Apparently this could take a couple of 265 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: different forms. The weapon might simply fail for the hero 266 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: at an important moment in battle, but it might also 267 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: speak and curse them for their false trophies. M. This 268 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: is interesting, the idea of being um accepted or rebuked 269 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: by a weapon. It makes me think of Excalibur, which 270 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: in which I do not think. I was looking around 271 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: for evidence of stories where Excalibur speaks, and I didn't 272 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: find any. But Excalibur does certainly look for its rightful 273 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: owner and uh and and rebukes people who try to 274 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: wield it without the right to do so. Yeah. And 275 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: of course R. Tolkien was was obviously a uh an 276 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: admire of many of these myth cycles that that we're 277 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: discussing here, So you see a lot of this reflected 278 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: and say, the behavior of the one ring, the idea 279 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: that it it chooses who wears it and who wields it, 280 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: and it might leave you if it has decided that 281 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: it it no longer believes in you. Right, I'm done 282 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: with the sealed or no more. Yeah, And so you 283 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: see that in some of these these accounts, you know 284 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: it's not uh, you know it will ultimately be like Okay, 285 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: the the hero has failed and the weapon has abandoned 286 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: them at a crucial moment. Q that Taylor Swift breakup song. Now, 287 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: an example cited by Borish can be found in the 288 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: Sick Bed of Colin. Now, this is a character that 289 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: we've discussed on the show before. This is the Irish 290 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: hero who I believe we did a whole episode where 291 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: we talked about one of his special weapons that may 292 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: or may not be related to the biological properties of 293 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: the stingray. Oh yeah, that's right. I do recall that 294 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: episode maybe being one of our most difficult pronunciation adventures 295 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: of all time. Yeah, globe trotting as we do with 296 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: our clumsy tongues. But but that one was also a 297 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Uh, those myths are awesome. I remember 298 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: the warp spasm, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Klan is as 299 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: a fascinating character. And and I hope I'm saying it 300 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: appropriately here because I've heard it said both way, like 301 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: Kuklan and Kuhlan, and we had a whole lot of 302 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: of Irish listeners right in and um and weigh in 303 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: on this topic. So here we are once again, folks. Yeah, 304 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: but in an early scene, uh, speaking of clumsy tongues, 305 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: they're the warriors bring forth the tongues of their enemies, 306 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: though some have embellished their trophies with the tongues of cows. 307 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: And so the warriors swear with their swords on their thighs. 308 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: And here's a quote from it. For their swords used 309 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: to turn against them when they would declare a false victory, 310 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: that is right, for demons used to speak to them 311 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: from their weapons, so that their weapons were thus guarantees 312 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: for them. I'm not sure I understand the causality of 313 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: the sentence. Let's see, So the demons used to speak 314 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: to them for their weapons, so that their weapons were 315 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: thus guarantees for them, meaning that the demons speaking from 316 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: the weapons would would let you know whether what the 317 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: warrior said was true or not. Yes, yeah, And of 318 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: course then now the whole idea, in the whole use 319 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: of the word demon, we'll get into that in a bit, 320 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: because of course that obviously smacks of of of later, 321 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, Christian era writers making sense of of older 322 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: beliefs and traditions by attributing them to demons as opposed 323 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: to you know, uh, spirits or deities that would have 324 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: made sense within the actual traditions and religion of those 325 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: people's right. Sure. So there are a lot of things 326 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: from the ancient world where where there's a story or 327 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: a text that has a word that means something like 328 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: spirits or gods or something, but Christian writers might translate 329 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: it as demons. Now, a specific example of talking weapons 330 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: that the board springs up is made in the Battle 331 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: of mag Truetta. This is an Irish epic about the 332 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: battles thought by the to Atha Dudon and against the 333 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: first the fear Bold, and then against the monsters from 334 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: Marian's So these are like the the Ta Dudon, and 335 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: these are like the fairy folk of old. They're kind 336 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: of like the Yeah, I guess you should compare them 337 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: to like the high elves, like they were, you know, 338 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: a warrior, magical warrior people, and then these enemies were 339 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: mostly monsters. Quote. Now, in that battle, Ogma the champion 340 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: found Oma, the sword of Tether, ra king of the Fomorians. 341 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: Ogma unsheathed the sword and cleaned it. Then the sword 342 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: told what had been done by it, because it was 343 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: the habit of swords at that time to recount the 344 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: deeds that had been done by them whenever they were unsheathed, 345 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: and for that reason, swords were entitled to the tribute 346 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: of cleaning after they have been unsheathed. Moreover, spells have 347 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: been kept in swords from that time on. Now, the 348 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: reason why demons used to speak from weapons, then, is 349 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: that weapons used to be worshiped by men and were 350 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: among the sureties of that time. Whoa several interesting things 351 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: going on there. So I like the idea that the 352 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: swords being empowered to speak about the deeds that have 353 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: been done with them is in a way presented as 354 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: an incentive for the care and maintenance of your sword. Yeah, 355 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: and for that reason, swords are entitled to the tribute 356 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: of cleaning after they've been unsheathed. But I mean, it 357 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: also seems just like cleaning a sword is important for 358 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: maintaining the sword like keeping it useful. So this seems 359 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: perhaps like one of those myths that that may have 360 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: a sort of practical origin. Yeah. And then, of course 361 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: at the end this bit about well people used to 362 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: men used to worship their swords, that also kind of 363 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: smacks of what we were talking about earlier, as does 364 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: the use of the word demons. And again we'll come 365 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: back to that shortly. But here's another bit. This one 366 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: is from the Cattle Rate of Coolie, and this concerns 367 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: our our hero cuc Colin once again. Quote. Then he 368 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: put on his head his crested war helmet of battle 369 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: and strife and conflict. From it was uttered the shout 370 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: of a hundred warriors, with a long drawn outcry from 371 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: every corner and angle of it, For they're used to 372 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: cry from it like and then there are a few 373 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: different um like old Irish cry eyes which I will 374 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: not try to repeat here, uh, you know, just just 375 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: in case I don't know, I don't know what their 376 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: translation is, and might anger at the warriors of old 377 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: um quote and demons of the air before him and 378 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: above him and around him wherever he went, prophesiesing the 379 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: shedding of the blood of warriors and champions. Now, obviously 380 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: this is a helm as opposed to a weapon, but 381 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: still it contains a record and it sort of speaks 382 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: now if it's saying here though that it's not just 383 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: recalling a record of the past. But it uses the 384 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,239 Speaker 1: word prophesying, which makes me think that it's speaking of 385 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: the future or is this just a version of prophesying 386 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: that speaks of the past. Um, I think we are 387 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: getting into divination here a bit, because as um, as 388 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: we'll touch on on later, you also see the idea 389 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: of the sword as this kind of focus of divination 390 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: in many different cultures. Now here's another account of of 391 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: weapons doing battle on their own, kind of like our 392 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: our ancient Sumerian example of from earlier. And this is 393 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: from the death of a malodron macdemo krone, sometimes the 394 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: violent death, and it contains a passage about a spear 395 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: that would leap into battle on its own and require tribute. Um. 396 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: Actually I don't have the exact quote from that, but 397 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: but that's the that's just the sum of summarizing of 398 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,719 Speaker 1: what occurs. But then in the mescal Ulad, there's a description, uh, 399 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: not only of Cocullen leaping into battle. But his weapons 400 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: are described as leaping into battle as well, um like 401 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: as if like by his side, as if by their 402 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: own will. Like they're not just things that he brings 403 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: with him into weapons. They're not just tools of war 404 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: they were. They're kind of like companions. And then in 405 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: the destruction of Daderga's hostel, there's a living lance called luon, 406 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 1: which I think Bores says it just means the lance, 407 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: but Borche rites. When this lance is ready to shed blood, 408 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: it has to be quenched regularly in a cauldron with poison, 409 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: otherwise the lance will catch fire. Used in battle, this 410 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: weapon is extremely dangerou us whoa so basically Bore summarizes that, 411 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: yet weapons are guarantees for truth about battle deeds of 412 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: the past. Um, we see this, this idea, this hint 413 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: of them being able to prophesies the future. Even weapons 414 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: know what has been done with them. And there's also 415 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: this idea of of other beings speaking through them now 416 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: and then then of course we've used the word demon already. Now. Um, 417 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: obviously you don't have to know much about about Christian 418 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: histories of pre Christian times to know that the ways 419 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: and beliefs of the old days are often recast as 420 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: blasphemy or worse, and in this case, the idea of 421 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: men worshiping their weapons or or of demons speaking to 422 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: them through the sword, clearly smack of this. Now where 423 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: Boorch ultimately lands on this issue, as it is that 424 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: the term demons may simply be a summarization of the 425 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: infernal deities or furies Alecto, uh tow Sephony Uh Megara, 426 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: as well as the war goddess Bellona. Now these are 427 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: Greek and Roman goddesses um and this, you know, again 428 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: gets with the history of translating and reinterpreting these stories. 429 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: But the Irish war goddess is of course the Morrigan, 430 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: who we I believe we talked about in our what 431 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: we talked about the Morrigan in the Phantom Morgana episode. 432 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: So sometimes she is an individual and other times though 433 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: she is a triad of the war goddesses um babtub Uh, 434 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: Macha and Nemain. Now, in early Irish texts, Bore says 435 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: that the Morrigan is sometimes equated with the monstrous Lamia 436 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: or also or also equated with lilith Uh and relegated 437 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: to the underworld. So there's you know this, this continuing 438 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: tradition of this um. But but I want to read this, 439 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: uh this this quote here from the text, She writes, 440 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: quote this survey from the Tane shows the war goddesses 441 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: appear in battle contexts in which they utter ominous, terrifying 442 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: and inciting shouts, just like the battle creatures from part 443 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: to part in Part two earlier in this documentary is 444 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: referring to demonic creatures inhabiting weapons and shouting therefrom at 445 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: the height of the fight. Uh. She continues, the battle 446 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: creatures are sometimes referred to in the same context, and 447 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: they are somewhat closer to the sword demons of of 448 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: Sirglegikon Coolin, and that they too are directly connected with weapons. 449 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: The connection is more indirect in the case of the 450 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: war goddesses. The most striking example is the is the 451 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: arm grip. This is the clamor alarms caused by an 452 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: attack by a war goddess, But this is less similar 453 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: than the shouts from weapons and armor. However, what brings 454 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: the war goddesses closer to the oracular utterances of the 455 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: sword demons are their prophetic words in battle context. This 456 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: prophetical function of the war Goddesses is not only found 457 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: in the Tain but also in other early Irish texts. Interesting. Okay, 458 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: so this does come back to the the divinatory or 459 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: miracular properties he alluded to. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like 460 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: the sword is a thing that, um, that kind of 461 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: stands outside of time. It's connected to all the deaths 462 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: before it, and it's connected to all the deaths ahead 463 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: of it. Or the sword stands outside of time, or 464 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: something that speaks through the sword stands outside of time. Yeah. 465 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: The sword is almost like a like a it's a 466 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: radio for talking to God. It's a you know, it's 467 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: like a conduit in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Now, outside 468 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: of actually speaking swords, the use of swords and other 469 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: blades and divination practices is pretty widespread. Um. I was 470 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: looking around for some some interesting specific examples. I ran 471 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: across a few from Asia that we're that we're pretty 472 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: pretty neat. We see this in Korean divination and some 473 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: Korean divination practices, and this was discussed by Yun Yung 474 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: Lee and Korean shamanistic rituals from one the primary focuses 475 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: on Korean shamanism or moodang, and there's a they discussed 476 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: there's a variety of double edged Korean sword known as 477 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: a gillam that is sometimes used in divination, as well 478 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: as a as a Korean variation of the three edge 479 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: spear or trident m I'm also to understand that swords 480 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: were sometimes a part of a traditional divination kit for 481 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: some Thai communities in Vietnam, according to a Thai divination 482 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: kit in the Vietnam Museum of Ethnology by vivan On 483 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: from the Vietnam Museum of Ethnology. And there of course 484 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: numerous examples of ritual daggers and blades used in various 485 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: practices that either are you know, um, objectively divination practices 486 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: or could be interpreted as having divinational aspects to them. Uh. 487 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: And we even see it carried on as a symbol 488 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: in the likes of Taro. The thing about Taro actually 489 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Um, of of the Egyptian 490 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: art that we were talking about earlier, because they're both 491 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: examples of this thing you see very commonly, which is 492 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: that weapons are very often um, inanimate objects are infused 493 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: with lots of meaning. They're they're charged with, you know, 494 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: their symbols in a way, or their signs that that 495 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: that point to all these different concepts and they seem 496 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: to have great stakes and import Yeah. Absolutely, I was, 497 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: and I was thinking a bit about about this, like what, 498 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, what does all of this mean? And um, 499 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: I guess I was reminded in part by that that 500 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: that quote from The Simpsons where Homer talks about how 501 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: it feels when he holds a gun that is like 502 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: how God must feel when he holds a gun. Which 503 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: is a ridiculous quote, but but I think, you know, 504 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: does get to it to a truth. There's something about 505 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: in this case, holding i say, a sword or a dagger, 506 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: especially one with a violent history, that it does have 507 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: the ability to induce a certain kind of thinking or feeling. 508 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: You know, we hold it, and in holding it, we 509 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: update our body schema to include this weapon. It becomes 510 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: a part of us, a part of our body, and 511 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: so too, to a certain extent, does these history and 512 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: its purpose? You know, Um, it's just something that's just 513 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: something about holding holding a tool, and in this case 514 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: that tool would be a sword or a or a mace. 515 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, I'd imagine that the same way 516 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: we we've talked about how driving a car changes your 517 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: relationship to other people while you're you know, so you're 518 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: operating a car, you don't really see other people the 519 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: same way you would if you were just standing next 520 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: to them on the sidewalk. You know that they might 521 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: start to become slightly less people like and more kind 522 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: of like irritating obstacle like or you know, that's something 523 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: about seeing them through the windshield maybe makes them less significant. 524 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: And you know, you've got to wonder about like holding 525 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: a deadly weapon or something that maybe not only could 526 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: be used as a weapon, but is definitely forged to 527 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: be a highly effective killing tool. Uh, does that also 528 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: sort of change your relationship to people around you while 529 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: you're holding it? Yeah, so, so it makes me wonder, 530 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, to a certain extent, some of what we're 531 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: discussing here. It's like the fantastic and the light gender area, 532 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: the mythic and the magical reverberations of of something that 533 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: all of us or even or maybe just a lot 534 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: of us can sense if we we hold that weapon 535 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: or even just like see that way. Like it's for me, 536 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: I always find it interesting to see some of these, 537 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: like these really old weapons were well preserved and in 538 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: some cases they were purely ceremonial uh in museums. Uh, 539 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, just just looking at them and thinking about, 540 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, what they are and how long they've been around. Now, 541 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: another way of looking at this subject is not to 542 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: emphasize the weapon nous, but just to think about these 543 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: stories as stories of an inanimate object or tool of 544 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: some kind that has a mind and speaks and has 545 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: a will of its own. In other words, that it 546 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: is an inanimate object that has the properties of an agent. 547 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: And this is a subject we've talked about a number 548 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: of times on the show before. But I was trying 549 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: to think about, like what this might rep resent in 550 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: the psychological context. So I found a paper that I 551 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about briefly. Uh. This is by Amanda 552 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: Hanks Johnson and Justin Barrett, published in the Journal of 553 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: Cognition and Culture in the year two thousand three, called 554 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: the Role of Control in Attributing Intentional Agency to Inanimate Objects. 555 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: And so one of the authors here, it's worth noting, 556 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: is Justin Barrett, who is a psychologist who has written 557 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things about the psychology of religion. 558 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: He was actually the author of that paper. We covered 559 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago about whether or not Santa 560 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: Claus should be thought of as a god. Oh wow, 561 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: that was an awesome paper. Yeah, recalled Barrett's conclusion on 562 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: Santa Claus was basically not quite a god, but very 563 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: very close. He had like five criteria that god seemed 564 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: to have in common, and he said that Santa Claus, 565 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: in some contexts I think had all five of them. 566 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: But these criteria were sort of inconsistently applied to him, 567 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: so very very close. But anyway, in the study, the 568 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: authors wanted to look at the phenomenon of attributing agency 569 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: to inanimate objects. So when you regard an object like 570 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: say a mace or a sword, for example, as if 571 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: it had the qualities of a person, such as a 572 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: mind with goals and intentional behavior, and this would this 573 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: would include flying into battle on its own or or 574 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: speaking or something like that. What causes us to start 575 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: thinking about inanimate objects as if they were intentional agents? Uh? 576 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: And so they start off talking about some factors that 577 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: were revealed by pre existing research. One of the things 578 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: they talk about is the concept of an agency detection device. 579 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: This is a sort of hypothetical module of the human 580 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: brain that is often invoked as one possible factor contributing 581 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: to the origins of supernatural and religious beliefs. Of course, 582 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: all you know, speculation like that into the deep evolutionary 583 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: psychology of humankind is highly speculative, but it seems at 584 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: least a plausible idea worth exploring that um that essentially 585 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: there is a selection bias on the human brain in 586 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: favor of UH. When given an ambiguous stimuli like you 587 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: see something vaguely moving to lean toward, assuming that it 588 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: is an agent with the ability to act on its 589 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: own intentions, rather than just a physical object being stirred 590 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: by the wind. Because it's you know, it's more cautious 591 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: to assume it's an agent. Agents are more dangerous and 592 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: you need to be more ready to guard against their behavior. 593 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: And of course agents would include not just humans but 594 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: also animals. But this study itself has less to do 595 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: with with possible psychological explanations for the origins of religion. 596 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: Is more just about what people do in the moment, 597 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: how they spontaneously speak as if they were attributing agency 598 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: to clearly inanimate objects like ball bearings. Now, previous research 599 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: had showed that people regularly participate in agent attribution even 600 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: with objects as some as two dimensional geometric shapes on 601 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: a display. So so, these other studies had shown that 602 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: people will talk about objects like a triangle on a 603 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: screen and talk about them as if they have characteristics 604 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: such as beliefs, desires or goals, emotional states, and genders. 605 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: And one of the major factors established by this previous 606 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 1: research is the importance of movement in in creating these 607 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: types of attributions. And it's also not just any movement, uh. 608 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: These studies found that we are especially likely to attribute 609 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: agency to objects that move in what the authors here 610 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: would call non inertial paths without being contacted uh. And 611 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: this is sometimes equated to movement that appears to be 612 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: in a goal directed manner. So non inertial paths means that, 613 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: you know, if you see a stone rolling down a 614 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: hill just following what would be the obvious apparent course 615 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: of gravity, you're much less likely to attribute agency to 616 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: that stone then you would to a stone that just 617 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: suddenly rolls in one direction on a flat surface without 618 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: any apparent cause. So that seems pretty intuitive, right. Like that, 619 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: we're less likely to start wondering if something is an 620 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: agent if we just see it apparently obeying the laws 621 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: of physics. If something moves in a way where we 622 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: can't clearly see a physical cause for it to move 623 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: that way outside of itself, then we start thinking like, 624 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: woe is that thing alive? But then the authors here 625 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: looked at another feature beyond just non inertial pathways of movement, 626 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: and that feature is the control of the observer. So 627 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: what they did here to test this was they used 628 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: an experimental setup where participants were recorded describing their actions 629 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: out loud while they tried to move a number of 630 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: metal ball bearings around on a surface like a tabletop. 631 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: And underneath that surface there were electro magnets that could 632 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: be turned on and off that could influenced the path 633 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: of the balls and how the balls moved around on 634 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: this table. So the two conditions of the experiment where 635 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: you had one condition where participants had direct control over 636 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: the magnets. They had a switch or switches that they 637 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: could switch on and off that were tied to a 638 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: light that would go on and off when the magnets 639 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: were activated and deactivated, So they were controlling the method 640 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: by which the paths of the balls were diverted. And 641 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: then you had another condition where the participants were moving 642 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: the balls around, but they had no perception of control 643 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: over the magnets. Instead, an experiment or was turning the 644 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: magnets on and off, and the results were in line 645 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: with the author's hypothesis. A greater number of participants in 646 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: the no control condition, the one where they could not 647 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: control what the magnets were doing, a greater number of 648 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: them spontaneously made statements attributing mind like agency to the 649 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: balls compared to the condition where people could control the magnets. 650 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: And so what were the spontaneous statements people made that 651 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 1: attributed agency. It would be things like um like relational expressions. 652 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: So for example, apologizing to the balls, one quote is oops, 653 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: sorry ball uh, sometimes naming the balls to quote from 654 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: the study here describing a relationship with the marbles in 655 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: terms that are literally appropriate only for animals and people 656 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: but not physical objects such as marble's e g. Quote 657 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: and a couple of ones did not like me um 658 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: and then a couple of the other ones where statements 659 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: about the ball bearings like having desires like oh, look 660 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: those two are kissing, or that one didn't want to 661 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: stay there, or saying that the balls are fighting each other. 662 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: So the results would seem to back up the idea 663 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: that we are more likely to spontaneously attribute agency to 664 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: inanimate objects not just when they move in non inertial paths, 665 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: but also when they do so in ways that we 666 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: understand to be outside of our direct control or outside 667 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: the direct control of a human agents such as our elves. 668 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 1: One interesting side note is that while a greater number 669 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: of members of the no control group made at least 670 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: one agency attribution statement, if you were to just count 671 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: up the numbers of statements, one participant in the in 672 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: control group actually went hog wild, making tons of statements, 673 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: including naming some of the marbles that this one participant 674 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: is where you get the person who started calling one 675 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: of the ball bearings Bob. The most common types of 676 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: agency attributions across all conditions were people ascribing desires and 677 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: dispositions to the to the marbles, such as wanting or 678 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: liking uh. And so the study did support the author's 679 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: hypothesis that that objects moving beyond our controls are more 680 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: likely to be seen as agents. But one thing that 681 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting was they actually recorded less spontaneous 682 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: agency attribution overall than a number of previous studies. For example, 683 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: the ones using geometric shapes displayed on a screen, and 684 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: they tried to talk about why that was, They say, quote, 685 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: perhaps the representational character of the animated displays introduces bias 686 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: that contributes to the willingness of participants to attribute beliefs, desires, 687 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: and personality traits to geometric shapes. At least adult observers 688 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: understand that images in motion pictures often represent intentional agents. Further, 689 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: while the shapes and the displays certainly do not have 690 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: beliefs or desires, intentional agents who do have beliefs and 691 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: desires orchestrate their movements. Perhaps these conceptual factors of the 692 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: displays contribute to the attribution of agency in animated displays. 693 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,479 Speaker 1: But there was one more section I wanted to read 694 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: that that I thought was interesting, where they were trying 695 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: to explain what could be going on, uh and and 696 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: relating this to to ecologically valid everyday experiences of people 697 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: attributing agency to inanimate objects. And and this relates to 698 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: the condition once again of control over these objects. They write, quote, 699 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: The suggestion is that we treat cars and computers as 700 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: intentional agents, not only because of their perceptual features or 701 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: self propelledness. Indeed, we be rate our cars when they 702 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: quote refuse to move, and not when they do move. Rather, 703 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: it is when objects action violates our own sense of 704 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: causal efficacy that we attribute agency to them. When the 705 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: computer either does something I did not ask it to 706 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: do or does not do something I asked it to do, 707 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: it's then that I remark that it is angry with me. 708 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 1: Feelings of frustration are the consequence of lacking control, feeling 709 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: that it is no longer my agency that accounts for 710 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: what I perceive, but some other agency that I cannot control. 711 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: And this was interesting because it made me think about 712 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: possible origins of people, especially looking to weapons used in 713 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: battle as something that that has a mind of its 714 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: own or could speak of its own accord, because I 715 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: could imagine that violent struggle is is a time when 716 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 1: you are especially prone, probably to frustrations with the physical 717 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 1: workings of your tools. Like you know, when when you're 718 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: you're swinging a sword or a mace in battle and 719 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,919 Speaker 1: it doesn't do exactly what you wanted it to do. 720 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: That seems like one of the most irritating possible situations 721 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: where that could happen. Right, So you might be especially 722 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: prone then to think this thing has a mind of 723 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,919 Speaker 1: its own and it is actually an agent in some way. Yeah, 724 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: that the sword has decided that I'm not worthy to 725 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: wield it, and that is why it it seems to 726 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,439 Speaker 1: fail me suddenly. Yeah. And and this also I think 727 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: comes into the old idea of like trial by combat. 728 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: You know, so people are very familiar with trial by 729 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: combat from Game of Thrones these days, but like it 730 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: is an actual ancient practice. And one of the things 731 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: that is often assumed about trial by combat is that 732 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: trial by combat reveals the will of the gods that 733 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,280 Speaker 1: there is you know, that there is divine interven mention 734 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: that reaches in and controls whose weapons and armor and 735 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: all that get the better of the other one. And 736 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: thus the truth is shown not by who has the 737 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: strongest warrior, but by which side the God's intervened on. 738 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: Behalf of Now, one thing that comes to mind and 739 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 1: all of this, uh, you know, taking and taking it 740 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: into a kind of all of this and comparing it 741 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: to the weapons too, is well, first of all, I'm 742 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: imagining like the warrior or psyche during the height of battle. 743 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,439 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that's going to be a situation where 744 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a lot of I mean, there's there's 745 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 1: there's probably a flow state going on to some degree. 746 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: In some cases, it's also highly energized and traumatic time, um, 747 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: which is going to have its own psychological effect. But 748 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: also I'm thinking if you if you're dealing especially with 749 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: the professional warrior, uh, a warrior who is who is 750 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: skilled with their weapon, who has say, run drills with 751 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: their weapon, is uh, to them, the use of this 752 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: sword or this mace is just second nature. UM. It 753 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 1: makes me think of the the sometimes perceptible disconnect between 754 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: will in the mind and movement in the body. And 755 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: I wonder if that could at times help nurture this 756 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,879 Speaker 1: idea that sometimes it is not me who is who 757 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: is who is striking out with the sword. Sometimes it 758 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: is the sword striking out and I am just following it. 759 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, that's really interesting. That lines up with 760 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,800 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Um, though there's a contradiction here worth exploring, 761 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: which is that Um So, if there is any truth 762 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: whatsoever to us you know, speculating that that maybe uh, 763 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: maybe it's because of extreme frustration with you know, a 764 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: sword or a mace not doing exactly what you wanted 765 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: to do when you you swing it in a fight. 766 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: That causes people to to infuse it with the idea 767 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: of agency and think this has this has a mind 768 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: of its own. This would kind of go against a 769 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: lot of the stories which are about weapons not failing 770 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: in battle but having these really special, awesome powers, like 771 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: doing more than you want doing doing what you want 772 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: beyond what you can make it do with your hands. Well, 773 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: I wonder in that, I mean, it's easy to look 774 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: back on these accounts and think of, you know, think 775 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: of any type of actual human that could have been 776 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: a part of say the the co Colon myth um, 777 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: and just imagine, well that this was a bloodthirsty professional 778 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,840 Speaker 1: warrior who you know, never looked back and reflected on 779 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: the deeds they performed on the battlefield. But on the 780 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: other hand, I wonder, if you know, what if it's 781 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,759 Speaker 1: not the case, what if you have characters like this, 782 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: I mean really in co Colon, we also see this 783 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: idea of the warp spasm, the idea that he becomes 784 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: something out of control on the battlefield, you know. So, 785 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: so maybe there is this Maybe there in some cases 786 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: there is this sense that like, okay, after the battle 787 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: when you're reflecting on what you did, perhaps there are 788 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: moments within that battle that that are in conflict with 789 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: what you think about as your nature and and maybe 790 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: that allows you to lean into this idea of the 791 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: weapon having this empowering or even we a full uh 792 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: uh property to it. Oh, maybe like what you think 793 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: is the is the gods, or what you think is like, 794 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, the divine taz or something is actually adrenaline. Yeah, 795 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: and and maybe like a disconnect too, was just sort 796 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: of the state of mind, like the reflective mind and 797 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: the you know, the reactive mind of of of a 798 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: pure combat situation at the time, Yeah, it just makes 799 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: sense to just keep pounding the enemy into the dirt 800 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: with your mace. And then afterwards you're like, oh, that 801 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: was a bit much. Why did I just not stop 802 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: pounding their skull into the dust? Um? That doesn't seem 803 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: like me. I don't know, but this is this is 804 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: mere speculation on my part. Sure, But even outside of combat, 805 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: I mean there are times, even in the you know, 806 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: the noncombatants life, where reflexes will at times seem to 807 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: come from beyond us, you know. I I think of 808 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 1: like a time where, uh my my son, who was 809 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: a toddler at the time. He like, he falls off 810 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: of a ladder on some stairs, and my arm just 811 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: shoots out and grabs his leg in midfall, you know which. 812 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: And at the time I'm like, oh wow, I'm already 813 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: holding him. I already caught him, Like I did not 814 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: seem like a wilful act, like, oh, he's following, I 815 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: better catch him. It's just you just react, you know. 816 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: And if one is given to interpret that in in 817 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: a supernatural way, you know, you might think, well, you know, 818 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: this is this was God working through me. This was 819 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: some angel or demon taking control of my arm and 820 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: doing this deed that seemed to occur outside of my 821 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: my my actual wilful cognition. It is amazing. In another 822 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: amazing way to interpret it is the physical way, which 823 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: is like your brain did that and then your consciousness 824 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: had to catch up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean obviously that 825 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: is the you know, the truth of the matter. And 826 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: I think that's the one thing I do want to 827 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: drive home about all of this is that like all 828 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: of these explanations within the human psyche and within the 829 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: human body I think are the most amazing. And that's 830 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: even if you get into, you know, some of the 831 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: more controversial hypotheses, like you know, the by Camraal mind, 832 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: which I think there are a lot of fun applications 833 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: for that when we're looking at this topic. But I 834 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: also see interpretations of some of these mythic weapons. Is like, oh, well, 835 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: obviously this was ancient aliens. Obviously the mace that flew 836 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: across the battlefield and reported back, this was some sort 837 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: of alien technology that the ancient Sumerians acquired. Um, you know, 838 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: I I mean, yes, if you're being very if if 839 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: you're willing to go that way, you can, I guess 840 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,359 Speaker 1: you can explain things away that in that regard, But 841 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: I feel like you're you're missing that where the true 842 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,240 Speaker 1: wonder lies. You know, you're missing the where the true 843 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: magic is, and that is in the complex way that 844 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: we interact with objects and enter and and contemplate our 845 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: own actions. Well yeah, and also I would just say 846 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: like that there is no particular reason to conclude ancient aliens, 847 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 1: Like there is no evidence for it, and there's like no, 848 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: there's no circumstance that demands it as a conclusion. So 849 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: it's just so you could equally just say, like, well, 850 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: maybe time travelers. I mean, I can't rule it out, 851 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: but there's no particular reason to think that's true. Um. 852 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: But you know, the other thing that I often harp 853 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: on on this show is that we enjoy looking for 854 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 1: possible physical circumstances and scientific explanations that could give rise 855 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: to you know, experiences people had or things people witness 856 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,319 Speaker 1: that could serve as the inspiration for mythological concepts like 857 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: talking weapons or weapons within with the mind of their own. 858 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: But also, I've said this a million times, there's also 859 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,680 Speaker 1: just human creativity. I mean, sometimes people just come up 860 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: with stories like it doesn't necessarily have to be that 861 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 1: somebody saw something happen or had an experience themselves that 862 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: felt like they were holding a weapon that was alive 863 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: and had a mind of its own. That that could 864 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: have happened, and that would be really interesting along the 865 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: lines we've been talking about. But you also don't have 866 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: to assume that. I mean, we know from the modern era, 867 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot of times people just come up with cool 868 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: and strange creative ideas. Yeah, And the thing about like 869 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: a lot of these these sci fi ideas that again, 870 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: some people are are more inclined to take a modern 871 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: sci fi concept and apply it backwards in time as 872 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: an explanation as an actual, like real world explanation for 873 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: what's say, uh, you know that that fantastic mace of 874 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 1: Nenurta was uh where in reality, like the modern sci 875 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: fi fantasy is perhaps better understood as a as a 876 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: reverberation from the original trope, you know, like this is 877 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: just continuation in the fantastic uh imaginative way of thinking 878 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: that has been around for a long time. It is not, 879 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is the thing that came before the 880 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: flying club that turns into a lion and and and 881 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: catches mountains on fire. That is the thing that helps 882 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 1: explain our modern science fiction dreams, not the other way around. 883 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 1: You know. An interesting thing about that is that somebody 884 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: might come back at you and say, well, but science fiction, 885 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: while having these same tropes, is based on technology, which 886 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: makes it more plausible. Um, and I guess you could 887 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 1: say that, but uh, but it also starts to me, 888 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,719 Speaker 1: is that a wonderful way of framing that is that 889 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: the course of human history and scientific and technological development 890 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: is reality catching up with myths. Yeah, yeah, so I 891 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: would I do have to point out to that, like 892 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: a mace is technology, you know, like like any idea 893 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,280 Speaker 1: of of a of a magical mace or a magical sword, 894 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: those those are technological stories as well. That's a deadly 895 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: simple machine. I believe a mace counts as a lever. Yeah, 896 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: all right, well, we're gonna go and close the book 897 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 1: on this, but we'd love to hear from everybody. We'd 898 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,840 Speaker 1: love to hear from your thoughts on on what we 899 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 1: discussed here, but also examples of sentient or possibly sentient 900 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,839 Speaker 1: weapons from other uh myths and legends as well as 901 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: science fiction and fantasy treatments as well. Uh Now, and now, 902 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: one thing I do want to mention here. We opened 903 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,839 Speaker 1: with a rather dark reading from the color Vada, so 904 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: I wanted to stress this. If you're troubled by suicidal thoughts, 905 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,399 Speaker 1: you are not alone. In A sympathetic ear is only 906 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,959 Speaker 1: a phone call away. In the United States, considered calling 907 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at seven three, eight to 908 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: five five. You can also visit the website, which is 909 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,720 Speaker 1: Suicide Prevention Lifeline dot org and for additional resources tailored 910 00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,959 Speaker 1: towards general and specific needs, such as those of youth 911 00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: disaster survivors, Native Americans, veterans, lost survivors, lgbt q I A, UH, 912 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,279 Speaker 1: and attempt survivors. You'll find a list of international UH 913 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: suicide hotlines at suicide dot org um and then you 914 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: can go to the International suicide Hotline section of that website. 915 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,720 Speaker 1: Big thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer Seth 916 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 917 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 918 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 919 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us as always at contact 920 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 921 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. It's production of I Heart Radio. For 922 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,359 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my Heart Radio with the i heart 923 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your 924 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: favorite shows,