Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
Speaker 2: name is Nolan.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We are joined as always with
Speaker 3: our super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly,
Speaker 3: you are you. You are here. That makes this the
Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know. We're gonna do
Speaker 3: something a little different this evening. We got that big
Speaker 3: Friday energy that BFE and we wanted to do a
Speaker 3: thought experiment. I think it's fair to say that we
Speaker 3: as well, like all of us recording this evening and
Speaker 3: all of us listening at home, we're all fans of
Speaker 3: the idea of psychic powers, right, I'd be absolutely.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think some of us would go so
Speaker 4: far as to say it's likely in the world to
Speaker 4: some degree. It's a what do you call it? A spectrum?
Speaker 4: I think that exists in terms of at least this
Speaker 4: is where I land on it with the human mind
Speaker 4: is capable of beyond maybe the stuff that's on the label.
Speaker 5: Well, I think about the world's fascination with psychic powers,
Speaker 5: and immediately to mind comes Stranger Things, and think about
Speaker 5: the popularity of that show. But then that was twenty
Speaker 5: sixteen or maybe twenty seventeen, I don't know, it was
Speaker 5: a while ago, right, but just how popular that show became,
Speaker 5: and you could argue all these reasons of why the
Speaker 5: show is popular and the nostalgia and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: I think at the heart of it is this like
Speaker 5: nebulous psychic powers thing that you get to discover when
Speaker 5: you watch that.
Speaker 3: Show, right, similar to Firestarter novel Twisted Fires, which is
Speaker 3: clearly your president for stranger Things, I think, and I
Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And also I mean, just like even back to the
Speaker 4: X Men and folks like Professor Xavior, who are essentially
Speaker 4: a psychic weapon that is on the side of the
Speaker 4: United States and he has like cerebros giant supercomputer that
Speaker 4: he can manipulate and control matter. And honestly, my favorite
Speaker 4: depiction of that kind of stuff that is Professor x
Speaker 4: adjacent is Legion, the show on Effects, which is like
Speaker 4: about literally trying to keep these psychic weapons under wraps
Speaker 4: and keep them from like exploding, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and that mythology is great because he is Charles
Speaker 3: Xavier's right.
Speaker 6: I think it's a badass. I love that actor too,
Speaker 6: by the.
Speaker 5: Way, And the reason why I bring up Stranger Things
Speaker 5: specifically is because it is a group of people trying
Speaker 5: to harness that form as a weapon to weaponize whatever
Speaker 5: that thing is that we call esp.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's imagine then that this is all real
Speaker 3: Tonight's thought experiment, as in, yeah, a world where some
Speaker 3: people can hear the thoughts of other living things, or
Speaker 3: can conduct precognition, project their minds across space and time,
Speaker 3: and you know, astral travel, remote viewing, clear matter. Yeah, telekinesis, psychokinesis, pyrokinesis,
Speaker 3: and of course obviously psychometry, the power most notably wielded
Speaker 3: by Jeff Goldbloom in the smash nineteen eighty cinematic masterpiece Vibes.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say greg kinesis, referring to the actor
Speaker 4: Greg Kinnear because that.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I do things.
Speaker 3: I like the idea like you can push the Gregs,
Speaker 3: only the Gregs, Gary Senesis. That's such a that's such
Speaker 3: a Charlie Dave power too. He's like, I push all
Speaker 3: the Gregs.
Speaker 5: I just imagine those guys like, do it as an
Speaker 5: interview or something real important, and then somebody's on the
Speaker 5: other side of their screen.
Speaker 2: It's psych with their hand.
Speaker 3: Up and let's get meta with it. What about canisius cansis.
Speaker 4: A million percent got you can never forget Canisis canisis right.
Speaker 3: It's real kinesthetic. That's what we're going for.
Speaker 6: Boom, you nailed it, h Mike Droppindean.
Speaker 3: Jeez, well, we are responding to a wonderful message from
Speaker 3: our fellow conspiracy realist Joe in our weekly listener mail program.
Speaker 3: Joe asked us a question that just sent us down
Speaker 3: a rabbit hole, which was the following, did world governments
Speaker 3: ever take psychic powers? Seriously? If they did experiment with
Speaker 3: psychic powers, would they not also evolve countermeasures to protect themselves?
Speaker 4: Sh I got all of us going, man, the moment
Speaker 4: that came in. I think we discussed it on a
Speaker 4: Strange News briefly, but like, oh man, what a what
Speaker 4: a blessing it is to have like a playground to
Speaker 4: romp in this thought experiment for an evening.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get into this.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but we do have to wait though, because
Speaker 3: this is our cold open. Yeah, yep, here are the facts.
Speaker 3: Longtime listeners, we do know the first part of Joe's question.
Speaker 3: Multiple governments have in the past experimented with the idea
Speaker 3: of psychic powers in one degree or another. Matt, we're
Speaker 3: talking off air and you know this as well. One
Speaker 3: of our a decade plus old episode is entirely about
Speaker 3: Russian or Soviet I should say, investigations into this for
Speaker 3: Americans in the crowd this evening. The most notable example
Speaker 3: of government funded psychic research is the Stargate Project.
Speaker 5: Yes, and right before we jumped on super producer Tennessee
Speaker 5: Palell Dylan, he told us that he just reread The
Speaker 5: Men Who Sterry Goats, which is based on the Stargate Project.
Speaker 3: Yes, excellent two thousand and four book, and folks, the
Speaker 3: goats are largely okay, just if there's any sensitivity. Also
Speaker 3: later adapted into a film, but very much based on
Speaker 3: a real thing. And it might sound whack a doo,
Speaker 3: but let's learn some more, right. I think that's the
Speaker 3: first part of answering Joe's question. What is the Stargate Project?
Speaker 3: It is not based on the film Stargate.
Speaker 2: Oh it was?
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 3: I rewatched that.
Speaker 6: And it's just.
Speaker 2: Terrible but also great.
Speaker 3: It's great the way the vibes is great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Who was the main guy? Was it? Kurt Russell?
Speaker 6: Kurt Russell is in the original stay right of the
Speaker 6: Thing Fame.
Speaker 3: You know, James Spader.
Speaker 6: I do like, he's great in the office.
Speaker 4: But also the dude from the Crying Game, right, the
Speaker 4: big twist in the Crying Game it plays the raw,
Speaker 4: the kind of overlord, big bad if I'm not mistaken
Speaker 4: in the film.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Unfortunately, the Stargate Project in the real life, the
Speaker 3: United States never did nail an ancient alien thing depending
Speaker 3: on who you ask, right, But it was a real
Speaker 3: army unit created in secret in nineteen seventy seven in Maryland.
Speaker 3: It was run by our friends at the DIA Defense
Speaker 3: Intelligence Agency. It officially ran until nineteen ninety five, when
Speaker 3: it was both declassified and terminated. If you are a
Speaker 3: voter in the US at that time who's very concerned
Speaker 3: about government waste, this is a real rug pool because
Speaker 3: they say, hey, guess what, For a minute, we wondered
Speaker 3: if psychic powers are real. Now we spent millions of
Speaker 3: dollars on it, but don't worry we're not doing that anymore.
Speaker 5: And it was super cool. It was like really cool
Speaker 5: when we were doing it.
Speaker 6: I bringing up every time we talk.
Speaker 4: I think one of my favorite memories of the show
Speaker 4: and episodes that anyone should revisit is when we spoke
Speaker 4: to Russell Targ about his participation in training operatives, you know,
Speaker 4: within the CIA to Astral project and to hone pre
Speaker 4: existing psychic abilities. And it was the first time where
Speaker 4: I think I personally had spent time speaking with someone
Speaker 4: who comes from a purely academic background and yet has
Speaker 4: this incredible crossover where he straddles the world of academia
Speaker 4: and the world of kind of the unknown in a
Speaker 4: very Molder esque kind of way. I really have a
Speaker 4: lot of respect for that guy.
Speaker 3: Tremendous individual. Yeah, do check out that interview, because you know,
Speaker 3: somebody understands something when they're able to explain it simply. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: And that I think is the art of high thought,
Speaker 3: and Russell Targ is simply amazing. That's one of the
Speaker 3: ones I think know that we have both gone back
Speaker 3: and listened to just for funzies. Absolutely, I'm driving somewhere
Speaker 3: and I want to I want to I actually, I
Speaker 3: fast forward past the parts where I'm talking actually.
Speaker 6: Get to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, great hair too. I think I've mentioned this as well.
Speaker 4: Forgive me for being redundant, but gotta be the influence
Speaker 4: for the design of the character of a gun Spangler
Speaker 4: and in the Ghostbusters universe.
Speaker 3: And we're saying this to establish again the reality of this.
Speaker 3: Regardless of how you feel about psychic powers or an
Speaker 3: esp spectrum, we do know that governments and very very
Speaker 3: intelligent people were also interested in this concept. Stargate focused
Speaker 3: on remote viewing. Remote viewing is the idea that certain
Speaker 3: human individuals may be able to non physically transport their
Speaker 3: consciousness across vast distances or even through time. You know,
Speaker 3: there were some very fascinating sessions or remote viewing sessions
Speaker 3: where people visited Mars right and described things in detail there.
Speaker 2: But one of those, if you want to listen to.
Speaker 3: It, Oh, yes, that's right, created a.
Speaker 5: Remote viewing session from this project where someone got to
Speaker 5: go to Mars in the past and it looked a
Speaker 5: lot like Earth with giant megalithic structures, and then they
Speaker 5: were brought back. Oh, and they also encountered shadow creatures
Speaker 5: of some sorts that were exiting the planet because the
Speaker 5: planet was dying, and you.
Speaker 3: Did such kick ass sound design on that one man.
Speaker 5: It was a group effort that made something special, I.
Speaker 3: Think, and one day hopefully we'll get to Mars physically
Speaker 3: as long as they start Project Stargate back up. This
Speaker 3: project was as wild as it sounds. This project was
Speaker 3: pretty small in the grand scheme of things, like when
Speaker 3: you think of other experimental projects the world governments do
Speaker 3: I think at the at the height there were maybe
Speaker 3: something like fifteen to twenty individuals who are considered, as
Speaker 3: you said, no operatives. But one thing that a lot
Speaker 3: of people miss when we talk about this is the
Speaker 3: unit the Stargate project was neither unique nor the first
Speaker 3: of its type. It was a culmination of a bunch
Speaker 3: of other similar things that have awesome names.
Speaker 6: A flame grilled whopper. No, it was literally called grill.
Speaker 3: Flame, which is safe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it really just makes me think of those sweet,
Speaker 4: sweet grill lines. Yeah, sun Streak Stargate, like we said,
Speaker 4: which was kind of became the catch all for all
Speaker 4: of these gondola wish that's like, that's someone that's.
Speaker 6: Really hankering for a vacation to Venice. They've got that
Speaker 6: Gondola wish.
Speaker 3: Caribbean Suction exactly.
Speaker 6: Caribbean Suction would be a great name for an op.
Speaker 4: And also scan It yeah, scan It yeah, Scannon Yeah.
Speaker 3: They all came together in nineteen ninety one and sort
Speaker 3: of a wu tang of weird government investigations.
Speaker 4: Seemingly picking the least objectively bad name of the bunch
Speaker 4: to go with.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: I can't believe you're anti Gondola Wish.
Speaker 5: Sorry, man, Gondola Wishes. I just want to know more
Speaker 5: because these these feel like superhero names or something, right,
Speaker 5: Like you're trying to create a weapon that is specifically
Speaker 5: grill flame or.
Speaker 4: Grill Flame is a superhero spokesperson for a grill company.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I'm looking at it thinking about some
Speaker 5: of the types of powers. You know, you can imagine
Speaker 5: that the project was attempting to harness and build and
Speaker 5: you know, I don't know, I'm super into it. Scan
Speaker 5: It to me just feels like someone that someone or
Speaker 5: a group of people that they're trying to train to
Speaker 5: be able to scan literally scan, maybe even like senators.
Speaker 3: Like the film Scanners. You'll recall the ta is all
Speaker 3: like their only power was making people's heads exploded.
Speaker 4: Maybe they could also just kind of immobilize them, but
Speaker 4: that the scanners in the Cronenberg film are kind of
Speaker 4: these like covert operatives.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can see the vast opportunity posed if
Speaker 3: this stuff worked at all. And you get to a
Speaker 3: philosophical dilemma too, because concurrently, even before this, throughout the
Speaker 3: Cold War, Soviet forces and to a degree the Chinese
Speaker 3: government as well as several other governments, were investigating these
Speaker 3: alleged abilities, and each did in turn put a degree
Speaker 3: of funding into this investigation. In fact, you can argue
Speaker 3: that the paranormal arms race was largely ignited by Soviet
Speaker 3: intro in a individual named Nina Kuligina. And this is
Speaker 3: someone we've talked about in the past, but she was
Speaker 3: considered to be side capable espionage asset. This was all
Speaker 3: very controversial. Again, it sounds nuts to hear tax dollars
Speaker 3: and government attention or getting poured into stuff that modern
Speaker 3: science still doesn't really agree upon. But we have to remember, man,
Speaker 3: it doesn't sound as nuts when you consider all the
Speaker 3: other strange things that governments have tried to do, Like, hey,
Speaker 3: can we turn bats into bombs?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know, cats go places. What if we mic them
Speaker 3: up through surgery?
Speaker 5: Dude, can we use gain of function research to put
Speaker 5: HIV stuff into this coronavirus?
Speaker 6: I was wondering the same thing.
Speaker 2: Man, Sorry, a little too real. Yeah, that actually happened.
Speaker 3: There's also the idea of the increasingly acme level cartoonish
Speaker 3: concepts about how to discredit or assassinate Fidel Castro and
Speaker 3: other dictators. What if we pipe LSD into the recording
Speaker 3: studio and hope he just sounds weird, and then everybody
Speaker 3: will be like boom right exactly. You know, it's like
Speaker 3: that old Internet meme where it's step one, step two,
Speaker 3: question mark, step three profit. But I don't know. It
Speaker 3: seems like if we put ourselves in the shoes of
Speaker 3: the world's war makers past and present, then we understand
Speaker 3: that dilemma they have to address. You know, an idea
Speaker 3: might sound bonkers, but what if other forces take it seriously?
Speaker 3: And what if they figure out there is some sand
Speaker 3: to it? And now, because we were dismissive, we are
Speaker 3: pushed to a reactionary position, which you never want to
Speaker 3: be in. We have a defense gap, and then you know,
Speaker 3: the same people who refuse to let us investigate in
Speaker 3: the first place, are calling us to Congress and asking
Speaker 3: why we didn't figure this out earlier. It's a dangerous game.
Speaker 5: While we're all under some kind of esp attack, trying
Speaker 5: to have a hearing.
Speaker 3: And everybody's rubbing their temples, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: That means it's necessary right to at least get something
Speaker 3: to the drawing board stage, even if all we figure
Speaker 3: out is that something doesn't work. So like the cats
Speaker 3: By experiment turned out not to work, but they had
Speaker 3: to know that it wouldn't work because if it did,
Speaker 3: us forces were worried that there would be a swell
Speaker 3: of Soviet cats invading your alleyways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and where your mind?
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a can we sit here and talk
Speaker 5: about psychotronics just for a second, because I just rewatched
Speaker 5: the video that we made in January twenty fourteen, and guys,
Speaker 5: I forgot some of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Ben.
Speaker 5: You found a paper in your research from a guy
Speaker 5: named Serge Kernback titled Unconventional Research in USSR and Russia,
Speaker 5: and we went through that and just broke down some
Speaker 5: of the research there. I forgot that the Soviet research
Speaker 5: into ESP powers in general, and like the weird science
Speaker 5: of it all goes back to nineteen seventeen, so like
Speaker 5: way way back before, there was this fight between you know,
Speaker 5: hegemonic powers of the US and the USSR, and they
Speaker 5: were interested in it. They were creating all kinds of things,
Speaker 5: including almost a belief system, a science pseudoscience belief system
Speaker 5: in this unknown energy that's it's vaguely defined, but this
Speaker 5: energy that they are researching that can have an effect
Speaker 5: somehow on the nucleus of a hydrogen atom. And that's
Speaker 5: the thought of how whatever these powers that are occurring,
Speaker 5: again vaguely defined, they have effects on the actual hydrogen
Speaker 5: atoms within human bodies and animal bodies and within you know, walls,
Speaker 5: within stuff like that, and that's how you actually are
Speaker 5: creating the things like the powers we define telekinesis, power, kinesis,
Speaker 5: all that stuff. It's just somehow this unknown power. And
Speaker 5: they they even built ben You've you found something about
Speaker 5: specific devices they were building that could like harness this.
Speaker 3: Power that they believed.
Speaker 5: Yes, that is very important, but still there was money,
Speaker 5: as you're we're talking about here, being pumped into this
Speaker 5: stuff for decades and well it's likely turned into centuries,
Speaker 5: but it you know, supposedly ended around the same time
Speaker 5: the US decided to end their research into stuff allegedly.
Speaker 3: IM all right, we'll get to it, but I like
Speaker 3: all of us questioned that. I mean, you can hear
Speaker 3: us with our italics when we say officially, I think
Speaker 3: it's pretty clear. But yeah, perhaps this Shenane is afoot again.
Speaker 3: And so we know that budgets are always a sensitive
Speaker 3: issue in government affairs, and there are you know, no
Speaker 3: government really is a monolith. There are different departments what
Speaker 3: we call stakeholders with competing interests. They're always in turf wars.
Speaker 3: They all want a bigger slice of the same financial pie.
Speaker 3: And that means a lot of things get mothballed at
Speaker 3: any point in their evolution, and they're not really Most
Speaker 3: of the stuff that goes to the drawing board stage
Speaker 3: and languishes in the military industrial complex of production. Hell,
Speaker 3: most of it is pretty mundane, you know, and they
Speaker 3: just say, okay, well we thought this would be a
Speaker 3: better coding for a gas tank, but we're done with that.
Speaker 3: And yah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Recently in the news there stories think we're gonna talk
Speaker 5: about them pretty soon in an episode, but stories about
Speaker 5: how major government organizations like FEMA are running out of
Speaker 5: funding and stuff like that, and you think about, like,
Speaker 5: FEMA's pretty important, no matter how you feel about FEMA
Speaker 5: emergency response, especially after a hurricane or something crazy important.
Speaker 5: But then you can also imagine why everybody thinks, why
Speaker 5: would you spend a single taxpayer's dollar on this nuttery.
Speaker 3: Right when there are real world problems? Right, you know,
Speaker 3: we could do things like address illiteracy or work for
Speaker 3: water safety, maybe build back some of those bridges before
Speaker 3: they inevitably collapse. But no, you have someone who persuaded
Speaker 3: you they can kill a frog's heart with their mind.
Speaker 6: God, it'll be cool.
Speaker 2: I mean, that'd be awful for the frog.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not great for the frog. But that's what
Speaker 3: Nina to the Soviet interest in this, That's what Nina
Speaker 3: Coleigina did. At least she convinced people that she was
Speaker 3: able to do one of the most valuable things. Who
Speaker 3: would want a side capable operative to do, which is
Speaker 3: to without physical interference, kill someone stopping cardiac function? Right,
Speaker 3: You don't need a gene Gray level psychic or telequen
Speaker 3: who can move an ABRAMS tank. You need someone who
Speaker 3: can just stand in the back of the crowd during
Speaker 3: the speech and just close that artery and there would be.
Speaker 4: No signature for anything like that. There would be no
Speaker 4: way to detect it. Like the reality of something like
Speaker 4: that existing would be an absolute national security nightmare.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And this is we're outlying the very real motivations behind
Speaker 3: things like Stargate, at least for you know, JASOK and
Speaker 3: then those sorts of decision makers. But Stargate did end officially,
Speaker 3: primarily do to a CIA report in the mid nineteen nineties.
Speaker 3: And the CIA report said, look, this never generated any
Speaker 3: useful intelligence for us. A lot of it was vague,
Speaker 3: you know, and we love a good story, but we
Speaker 3: can't move on just playing vibes. Shut it down. Yeah,
Speaker 3: which is funny because the you know, there have been
Speaker 3: equally out there kind of initiatives by all sorts of
Speaker 3: government agencies.
Speaker 6: Shutting down the X files guys shut it down.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And this was the Defense Intelligence Agency back in the day, right,
Speaker 5: So like the overarching Defense intelligence thing. It does make
Speaker 5: me wonder if somebody smaller within that organization could then
Speaker 5: raise a hand and say, well, actually we have a
Speaker 5: little bit of a budget for a thing.
Speaker 4: So sabrella ed under something else. Perhaps they're kind of
Speaker 4: somewhere in the basement.
Speaker 6: Yah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: In the closed down subway in the heart of the Pentagon.
Speaker 5: Oh, where the turtles become teenagers and learn to kana exactly.
Speaker 3: Uh, and they're still teenagers.
Speaker 6: They just wanted a childhood, guys, come.
Speaker 3: On, they just man. Splinter what a father figure, you know.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Splinter was probably bad. I mean, Shredder was put them
Speaker 3: to work, guys.
Speaker 6: Splinter put those those kids to work.
Speaker 3: It was but a SIMPI it was. It was a
Speaker 3: tough love, dude. I respect that.
Speaker 6: Okay, Okay, you must work together.
Speaker 3: So d I A runs this. It's under the auspice
Speaker 3: of d I A. And the CIA report is really
Speaker 3: what puts the nail in the coffin of funding. And
Speaker 3: this is a high level summary of the facts, but
Speaker 3: it takes us further through the rabbit hole. For tonight's experiment,
Speaker 3: Fellow conspiracy realist, let's ask what would happen if things
Speaker 3: like Stargate did continue. If psychic powers were agreed to
Speaker 3: be a genuine, reproducible, provable aspect of military function. Wouldn't
Speaker 3: governments want to develop both offensive and defensive capabilities in
Speaker 3: a world with slippery telepaths, assassin telequens, roaming astral spies.
Speaker 3: Day one is discovering it. Day two and the next
Speaker 3: decade is figuring out how to protect yourself from what
Speaker 3: you have discovered.
Speaker 2: Ooh, but how do you do that if it's even real?
Speaker 6: I mean, did they even really discover it?
Speaker 5: If you're not willing to put money into making the offense,
Speaker 5: who's putting money.
Speaker 2: Into the defense?
Speaker 4: Wheels within wheels, why don't we take a quick break
Speaker 4: and hear word from our sponsor and then dive right
Speaker 4: into these murky psychic waters.
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. All right, again, this is
Speaker 3: a thought experiment. So we are we are playing a game,
Speaker 3: and we're thinking through this together. Play along with us
Speaker 3: at home, by all means sure, yes, yeah, getting our heads.
Speaker 3: I also think it would be without really good training.
Speaker 3: I think it would be terrible to be a telepath.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you sneeze and you know, set your house
Speaker 6: on fire.
Speaker 3: Right, people don't edit their inner thoughts. Yeah right, so
Speaker 3: you'd be walking around It's like you would live in
Speaker 3: Twitter and you can't log off.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you'd have to talk about distance, right, how far away?
Speaker 5: Can I intercept messages as telepath and you just have
Speaker 5: to isolate yourself or get one of those metal helmets
Speaker 5: you know?
Speaker 3: Also, is it language dependent? Like if you're a telepath
Speaker 3: and you can hear people's thoughts, but you're and you
Speaker 3: don't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, then be useless.
Speaker 6: It would also be would.
Speaker 4: Be galling to have your head full of like stuff
Speaker 4: you couldn't even understand. I mean, you know one theory
Speaker 4: about folks experiencing perhaps visions, you know, people like Joan
Speaker 4: of Arc. In addition to the idea that they likely
Speaker 4: were experiencing some form of undiagnosed mental illness, perhaps there
Speaker 4: is the possibility that these were folks who were interpreting
Speaker 4: messages from others those around them, and then ascribing those
Speaker 4: two being messages from the divine. But Matt, you you
Speaker 4: bring up something that never really occurred to me, the
Speaker 4: idea of it being a distance based thing. I guess
Speaker 4: you first have to understand the mechanism of it all
Speaker 4: to really understand how distance might play a part in
Speaker 4: such a such an exchange.
Speaker 5: Yeah, is it a wave or is it a particle?
Speaker 6: Man? Or is just a vibe?
Speaker 3: I think it's is it an emanation of energy? Is
Speaker 3: it somehow quantum super positioning, it's yeah, it's a whole
Speaker 3: bag of badgers. So the first, the first countermeasure answer
Speaker 3: is the most simplistic, which makes it the most reliable.
Speaker 3: It is also by far the most brutal suite of solutions.
Speaker 3: If you have individuals capable of such extraordinary feats, you
Speaker 3: have to build in a method of controlling them so
Speaker 3: that you can prevent because now they're humans as weapons,
Speaker 3: so you've got to stop them from going rogue, and
Speaker 3: you have to be able to by hook or by crook,
Speaker 3: make sure they cannot be turned against you.
Speaker 4: Or if that is not on the table, you have
Speaker 4: to neutralize them, whether that be by keeping them in
Speaker 4: some sort of cell that perhaps has lead walls or
Speaker 4: whatever it might be that would prevent those kind of
Speaker 4: signals from getting in or out.
Speaker 6: Or if you really get to the point where they're
Speaker 6: just an absolute.
Speaker 4: Liability, perhaps perhaps execution would be on the tube.
Speaker 5: I think it's the old suicide squad method, with an
Speaker 5: explosive charge embedded in the net, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, a kill switch is unfortunately the most one
Speaker 3: of the most plausible things. I mean, before you get
Speaker 3: to that, I think you should do that from day one.
Speaker 3: And for being honest, before you get to that, you
Speaker 3: we have to look at precedent. How did various governments
Speaker 3: and regimes control scientists in the past. They did it
Speaker 3: not necessarily through threatening the scientists, but by exercising continual
Speaker 3: monitoring of their loved ones and the scientist activity, and
Speaker 3: then extorting the scientists to you know, make them play ball,
Speaker 3: by not threatening them but threatening their children.
Speaker 2: That's gross, is that the old?
Speaker 5: Hey, we saw your spouse and your children at the
Speaker 5: park the other day. They looked great. That those blue
Speaker 5: pants on your daughter just they're gray? And where did
Speaker 5: you buy those?
Speaker 3: Just an envelope with a with a picture of your
Speaker 3: kid at a playground?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, be a shame if something happened to your
Speaker 4: mint condition Ken Griffy Junior rookie card. If you don't
Speaker 4: have any kids, just.
Speaker 3: A baseball garden enthusiasts, And it wouldn't be any different
Speaker 3: with esp capable humans. As a matter of fact, you
Speaker 3: probably also want to do some behavioral modeling. Be very
Speaker 3: diplomatic on that one, but the real term is brainwashing.
Speaker 3: And then you know, we mentioned you want to build
Speaker 3: in a kill switch. The most simple is a remotely
Speaker 3: activated device that can cause fatal brain trauma or interfere
Speaker 3: with the circulatory system, an evil version of a pacemaker.
Speaker 3: Keep him away from microwaves. You can see the future,
Speaker 3: but he can't eat hungry man.
Speaker 4: Another thing you see too a lot of times is
Speaker 4: folks kind of being exposed to some of the things
Speaker 4: we might think of as torture mechanisms, like sleep deprivation
Speaker 4: or sensory overload, where they've got like TV screens surrounding
Speaker 4: them in three hundred and sixty degrees and like death
Speaker 4: metal blasting at all times because it's screened, you know,
Speaker 4: theoretically would scramble their equipment in a way that would
Speaker 4: not allow them to focus and then exercise their powers.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point too, because this series of
Speaker 3: unique capabilities would still only be one part of the
Speaker 3: person entire and we know very well the vulnerabilities of
Speaker 3: the human mind and body. So there's also there's also
Speaker 3: another nasty thing. This has happened before in different spheres.
Speaker 3: You could also get them hooked on a chemical of
Speaker 3: some sort, exactly on a substance that they are reliant
Speaker 3: upon you for you know, and that's that's terrible because
Speaker 3: then we have someone who is you know, maybe capable
Speaker 3: of remote viewing, but they have also been turned into
Speaker 3: a junkie as a matter of national security, God forbid.
Speaker 4: Then they escape from the facility and they are crazed
Speaker 4: because of addiction and then lashing out. And can you
Speaker 4: imagine someone going through withdrawals chemically who also is an
Speaker 4: extremely powerful psychic with telegenetic abilities.
Speaker 2: This is like the whole compound v thing.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, compound view from the voice. And then
Speaker 3: also ideally, and we're just being honest here, you would
Speaker 3: want withdrawal from that substance to be fatal, ah, so
Speaker 3: that they would have to keep coming back to you.
Speaker 3: You would chemically assure their loyalty. Very dirty thing and
Speaker 3: super messy. To your point, Noel, I don't think that's
Speaker 3: a reliable one. But there's another point you made that
Speaker 3: I think is key here, the idea of the padded room.
Speaker 3: The second countermeasure is material science. Right, if astral travel
Speaker 3: is real, to that earlier question you were talking about, Matt,
Speaker 3: what sort of energy defines the traveling mind? Is it
Speaker 3: a force that emanates from a physical location. Is it
Speaker 3: something quantum and interacting in dimensions and time and space
Speaker 3: in a way that we don't understand. If everything is
Speaker 3: indeed energy, then figuring out this kind of energy the
Speaker 3: platform or the medium is key because we know certain
Speaker 3: materials can block the passage of different types of energy.
Speaker 3: Shout out to our Timfoil episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I think we figured it out recently from
Speaker 5: the story you brought to us, Noel. The was that
Speaker 5: time crystal thing or was the.
Speaker 3: Crystal memory crystal?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the memory crystal sub five D baby, Yeah, you
Speaker 5: make some kind of five D prison yikes?
Speaker 6: No, was it? Didn't that play a part in one
Speaker 6: of the Christopher Reves Superman movies?
Speaker 3: Wasn't there like some yeah yeah, yeah, that's where they
Speaker 3: put gen that's right, yes, thank you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's like really bad CGI kind of trapezoidal box, right, okay?
Speaker 3: And it was in general, he was, and check it.
Speaker 3: I'm not up to date on Kryptonian chain of commands him. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's right, that's right.
Speaker 5: Need a fifth dimensional distortion field chamber.
Speaker 3: I like it. I love it. Let's go star trek
Speaker 3: with it, you know, whenever they need some dius x macana.
Speaker 3: They just get the most science y sounding words and yes, right,
Speaker 3: so we without getting to sciencey word science. Wow, still
Speaker 3: learning English, folks. A Faraday cage is a real thing.
Speaker 3: It can create a reliable barrier against electromagnetic radiation. Shout
Speaker 3: out to our buddy Michael Faraday back in the eighteen
Speaker 3: hundreds who figured this out. That's it's pretty simple principle
Speaker 3: that candidly I would have never figured out. So thank
Speaker 3: you again, Michael.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it's incredible because again we talk about this
Speaker 5: energy matter everything it exists in, sometimes in particle forms,
Speaker 5: sometimes a waveform, as science has shown us, and waves
Speaker 5: are everything, right, They're just on different frequencies. The frequency
Speaker 5: is how close together the wave actually is. And then
Speaker 5: what's the other thing looking at you know, maybe talking
Speaker 5: about sound like the that's frequency.
Speaker 2: And then amplitude.
Speaker 5: Amplitude Okay, those are the two major things you would
Speaker 5: have to control for because those waves constitute everything from
Speaker 5: the lowest possible sound you can make, and then you
Speaker 5: keep going up and you get into the light range, right,
Speaker 5: and then you keep going up and then you get
Speaker 5: into all kinds of other rays and things like that.
Speaker 5: If you can control for those waves and not allow
Speaker 5: them to exit or enter a space. Then you win
Speaker 5: when it comes to controlling basically any energy that can
Speaker 5: come in or escape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, build a wall one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: But once again, that pre suppo is that we understand
Speaker 4: the mechanism of executing these type of abilities, Like if
Speaker 4: it's something that's sciency, you know, or is this something
Speaker 4: that's well beyond the realm of science that we can
Speaker 4: fully understand. Is this stuff, like you said, Ben in
Speaker 4: some way superposition based or or beamed in and bounced
Speaker 4: off of other things?
Speaker 6: I mean, you know what I mean, Like I just yeah,
Speaker 6: we just don't know.
Speaker 3: I love the idea that they finally they finally figure
Speaker 3: it out, because it's always the academics who saved the day.
Speaker 3: I love the idea that they try all this material
Speaker 3: science to protect information from astral travelers, and then out
Speaker 3: of nowhere comes in this seventy some year old retired
Speaker 3: professor and he has figured out the right Sumerian derived sigils. Yes,
Speaker 3: so you have to paint on the inside of the wall,
Speaker 3: and now that's our skiff.
Speaker 4: That's why I think we all love stuff like hell
Speaker 4: Boy and like the League of Extraordinary gentlemen, because it's
Speaker 4: sort of like these crews that are based they're working
Speaker 4: for the government, but they understand the magic is real
Speaker 4: and they wield you know, appropriate countermeasures, you know, to
Speaker 4: deal with the infernal forces.
Speaker 6: Where sciences doesn't have a role.
Speaker 3: You know, I love it. I love it. I'm a
Speaker 3: government exorcist, you know what I mean. I look getting
Speaker 3: rid of these demons and infernal powers. It's just a job.
Speaker 3: I'm running the clock down for my pension. Every day
Speaker 3: is Monday when you deal with the devil.
Speaker 6: Right there are clergy, you know, on payroll for the government.
Speaker 4: I imagine do you can't you imagine that somewhere in
Speaker 4: a program of black op whatever.
Speaker 6: So maybe we're not aware of they do have exorcists
Speaker 6: on staff.
Speaker 3: It's it's a really cool question. And I love the
Speaker 3: idea to your bpr D hell boy reference. But I
Speaker 3: think it depends on you know what, It depends on
Speaker 3: the ideology or the spiritual school of thought or the exorcism,
Speaker 3: because if it's the Western idea of exorcism as we
Speaker 3: recognize it today, then it has to be approved by
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church. Right. Well, we know the veticant definitely
Speaker 3: has an exorcist squad.
Speaker 4: Maybe they just sub it out, you know, when they
Speaker 4: just reach out to third party or to the Catholic church.
Speaker 3: It's a contractors. Yeah, we got some exorcists, but they're
Speaker 3: from Halliburn exactly.
Speaker 6: Hmmm.
Speaker 5: I want to bring up another thing in the material
Speaker 5: science world that again comes from a fictional space, from
Speaker 5: the video game Control and it makes me think of
Speaker 5: the HR or the Hadron resonance amplifiers, which are mobile
Speaker 5: devices like a backpack that somebody would wear that then
Speaker 5: sends out a signal, almost creating a signal bubble for
Speaker 5: whoever's wearing it that prevents these bad waves whatever they
Speaker 5: could be, from entering that bubble.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, that's a really good call. I totally forgot about that. Yes,
Speaker 3: that makes sense.
Speaker 5: It's almost the way sound canceling headphones work or stuff
Speaker 5: like that. You you basically take in the signal or
Speaker 5: you receive a signal and you flip it and when
Speaker 5: you play that signal out as an incoming signal is
Speaker 5: hitting you, it can't the waves cancel each other out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's signal interference you could you could create and
Speaker 3: that's These concepts still are somewhat similar to the idea
Speaker 3: of Faraday cage. Right, you're building a barrier, how do
Speaker 3: you build it? A Faraday cage is like a raincoat,
Speaker 3: but for certain types of invisible energy instead of rain.
Speaker 3: And what we're talking about here, actually, I think we're
Speaker 3: doing a very good job with this thought experiment, and
Speaker 3: I think we're being pretty reasonable. I got a little
Speaker 3: out there with Samerian academia, and that's my bad. But
Speaker 3: it would We had to do it. We had to
Speaker 3: do it. And if you like, so what we're talking
Speaker 3: about is, how would you build a skiff scif? How
Speaker 3: would you side proof something? How would you make a
Speaker 3: senative compartmented information facility that is able to stop psychic
Speaker 3: powers and astral travelers? I mean that's the other thing too,
Speaker 3: Like what I love about when you're pointing out control,
Speaker 3: we have to ask is it possible to train people
Speaker 3: or build machines that can detect these kind of reconna tempts,
Speaker 3: you know, like having someone round this. This is the
Speaker 3: weirdest thing. Okay, this is like, uh, this is so surreal.
Speaker 3: But if this was possible, you would build the you
Speaker 3: build the room right to protect your secrets and you
Speaker 3: get to this really silly situation where you end up
Speaker 3: with three guys who are trained to do the vibe
Speaker 3: check and they just sleep and sh yeah hopefully, I know.
Speaker 3: Would you want to be trapped in a room with
Speaker 3: Jeff Goldblum twenty four to seven right off of you.
Speaker 6: That's his superpower.
Speaker 3: He's got the power to move you. Yeah, So this
Speaker 3: would mean you'd have to have twenty four to seven monitoring,
Speaker 3: and if if it was some kind of capability that
Speaker 3: was unique to certain human brains, you would have to
Speaker 3: find like three of those people and just keep them
Speaker 3: in that room or in that proximity where they could
Speaker 3: somehow tell you if someone's wrong. And then you would
Speaker 3: need to train or harden individuals even if they're not
Speaker 3: side capable against possible interference. You know, you have to
Speaker 3: have and sometimes I think under the Hickman run of
Speaker 3: X Men they talk about this. You would have to
Speaker 3: have some kind of protocol or attempt to have it
Speaker 3: embedded in the mind so that you could detect when
Speaker 3: someone got when someone pinged you, and you would have
Speaker 3: maybe some kind of mantra that you repeat, like name,
Speaker 3: rank and serial number, you know, the quick brown fox
Speaker 3: jumps over the dog. Yeah, is that the one one
Speaker 3: that uses all the letters of the letters? Yeah, you
Speaker 3: would have to have something like that. I don't know
Speaker 3: if that would even work. I'm getting a little spooped
Speaker 3: out thinking about it.
Speaker 5: Obviously, Well, I think you would have to have that,
Speaker 5: and just going back to our earlier discussion when researching
Speaker 5: the offensive capabilities versus the defensive capabilities, I think it
Speaker 5: would have any of that research. I know we don't
Speaker 5: have official documentation for a lot of it, or it's
Speaker 5: heavily redacted. When it comes to the psychotronics stuff that
Speaker 5: so the Union was doing, or the start some of
Speaker 5: the Stargate stuff that we were doing, a lot of
Speaker 5: it still has that lovely black.
Speaker 2: Marker across it.
Speaker 5: But I imagine that there are there are in tandem projects
Speaker 5: that are solely based on what you're talking about. Ben
Speaker 5: individuals that essentially become the beacon that ends up getting
Speaker 5: the ping when the signal comes in. Right, they can
Speaker 5: just have that sixth sense thing something's off, something's happening,
Speaker 5: and it wouldn't have to be as strong as oh,
Speaker 5: there's a person in Wisconsin and they are It would
Speaker 5: just be something's off and it's like shut it down mode,
Speaker 5: like you're talking about, everybody reverts back to whatever that
Speaker 5: default thing is.
Speaker 3: That intuition, right weaponized, and we do know, you know,
Speaker 3: it leads us to another thing, the concept that some
Speaker 3: people have electromagnetic sensitivity right explored and better call Saul,
Speaker 3: perhaps most famously recently, which.
Speaker 6: Is not fully accepted or understood by science.
Speaker 3: Right, right, We do know that there has been also,
Speaker 3: I think we talked about this in the past, there's
Speaker 3: been a surprising amount of government sponsored research into the
Speaker 3: concept of intuition, right into the concept of the internal
Speaker 3: vibe check. And and that gets us to another answer
Speaker 3: for our pal Joe, another countermeasure that would inevitably come
Speaker 3: into play, and we have returned so speaking of monitoring.
Speaker 3: The third thing, and we've been talking about this too, right,
Speaker 3: you would want predictive ability, not quite the same as
Speaker 3: telling the future. You would want intense knowledge about the origin,
Speaker 3: the current location, and the capabilities of every single side
Speaker 3: capable person on the planet.
Speaker 4: So it'd be a registry or some kind or you know,
Speaker 4: I mean serious database, likely robust tracking monitoring. You know,
Speaker 4: Privacy would be out the window. And that's you know, honestly,
Speaker 4: that is the world that is depicted in things like
Speaker 4: X Men. You know, the idea of the mutant registry
Speaker 4: and this like backlash and.
Speaker 6: Persecution of folks seen to have mutant abilities.
Speaker 5: Dude, dude, can I bring some of the other I
Speaker 5: just thought about guys.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I just.
Speaker 5: Imagined an iron Man's style figure based on existing directed
Speaker 5: energy weapons that we talked about in twenty fourteen. By
Speaker 5: the way, the EHF were extremely high frequency wave weapons
Speaker 5: that were that were developed, like the active denial system.
Speaker 5: Imagine the way bluetooth technology and miniaturization of extremely good
Speaker 5: speakers has evolved. Now, imagine somebody that on their hands
Speaker 5: have like directed speakers in the palm of their hand
Speaker 5: to where they could at any time like push their
Speaker 5: hand out towards a crowd of people, and this active
Speaker 5: denial system is emanating from the palm of their hands,
Speaker 5: and then you could but it wouldn't affect the user
Speaker 5: because of the directional nature of it, and then you
Speaker 5: could just bring it right back in ulcer ray.
Speaker 4: Basically, Yeah, this would be a deterrent mechanism in and
Speaker 4: of itself, not some sort of like device designed to
Speaker 4: enhance a pre existing ability.
Speaker 3: I'm imagine.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, yeah, I'm imagining it's a it's almost like
Speaker 5: creating a specter of someone like you're in a conflict
Speaker 5: zone or something, and then some some person just like
Speaker 5: comes out of nowhere and just aims their hand at you,
Speaker 5: and you don't see a speaker on their hand. You
Speaker 5: just see them raise their hand at you, and then
Speaker 5: your brain starts to hurt.
Speaker 3: I hope it's good. I hope when the side effects
Speaker 3: is a weird, silly sound, like you see the hand
Speaker 3: and then you hear yeah, they spent millions of dollars
Speaker 3: building this.
Speaker 6: And your eyes turn into like spirals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like, we can't get rid of the sound.
Speaker 5: You could build in a terrifying sound que that plays
Speaker 5: at the same time that the high frequency sounds are playing,
Speaker 5: and you would just you could terrify talk about terrorism.
Speaker 2: Cheez Okay, sorry, just had that thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's perfect thought.
Speaker 6: It always reminds me of stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Reminds me of that scene in Back to the Future
Speaker 4: where Marty dresses up like the spaceman from another time,
Speaker 4: you know, wearing like a hazmat suit and he just
Speaker 4: puts the headphones on, uh George McFly's ears and then
Speaker 4: presses play on the walkmen, and he's like, you like,
Speaker 4: it's bad to be like brain scram because he's never
Speaker 4: heard heavy metal before.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: And this this gets into some really deep water. The
Speaker 3: registry idea is dangerous. Yes, Historically registries have a lot
Speaker 3: of danger to them. You would want to take all
Speaker 3: the data about any known side capable individual as much
Speaker 3: as you can get, like figure out when and how
Speaker 3: they poop, right, and then run that algorithm or run
Speaker 3: that run pattern recognition through some massive database and find
Speaker 3: anything that these people might have in common. Is it
Speaker 3: maybe a specific genomic expression, like how most people with
Speaker 3: blue eyes can trace their origin back to a single mutation.
Speaker 3: Is it, yes, something like that. Is there an injury,
Speaker 3: an event, perhaps a specific type of neurological condition that
Speaker 3: increases the likelihood of this functionality?
Speaker 5: Is it the surge intake when they were in their adolescent.
Speaker 3: We sure hope, so, we sure hope so, but yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, the idea, like going back to that excellent
Speaker 3: example about prophetic figures like Joan of Arc for instance,
Speaker 3: was there something that could be mistaken for epilepsy if
Speaker 3: you don't look closely enough, some kind of you know,
Speaker 3: a traumatic brain injury, is there, Like, imagine if the
Speaker 3: right kind of concussion gives you some ability, just like
Speaker 3: in the Stephen King novel The Dead Zone where the
Speaker 3: guy comes back and has psychometry.
Speaker 5: Dude, or even self reporting of hearing voices or something
Speaker 5: like that. You know, just something small that then becomes
Speaker 5: a Oh, that's something we can actually track.
Speaker 3: Right, we found a bread crumb, and that's what you're
Speaker 3: searching for. And then the next question is is it
Speaker 3: possible to reliably reproduce those factors? And you know, people
Speaker 3: would experiment with this if there was a specific type
Speaker 3: of brain injury or combine with you nomic expression that
Speaker 3: did the right thing. Would you, for the greater good,
Speaker 3: subject you know, children or civilians to traumatic brain injury
Speaker 3: in search of growing your own telepath squad.
Speaker 5: The creepy and messed up answer is somebody would. Absolutely
Speaker 5: somebody would.
Speaker 6: Somebody are thinking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, somebody me. I mean, that's the it's like the
Speaker 3: flying car idea. Also, you would want to control those
Speaker 3: factors if you can. You would want to prevent that
Speaker 3: from happening unless you knew about it. Just like that
Speaker 3: line from a Blood Meridian, all that exists without my knowledge,
Speaker 3: exists without my consent, man, I have all the way three.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I've been watching a lot of YouTube video
Speaker 4: essays about The Judge in particular, and I need to
Speaker 4: dig into that novel.
Speaker 6: It seems like an absolutely horrifying specimen.
Speaker 3: I think there was going to be a film adaptation
Speaker 3: at some point.
Speaker 4: That's what a lot of the videos are about, about
Speaker 4: how unfilmable it is because the way it's written is
Speaker 4: in this sweeping biblical language with very little punctuation and
Speaker 4: like very little quotation marks, so you don't even know
Speaker 4: if this is an internal monologue or a character speaking.
Speaker 4: And it's part of Corman McCarthy's whole deal. But like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it seems like it'd be a tricky one to adapt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, paigeing the Cohen brothers right, they're the guys for
Speaker 3: the job. Absolutely, This this idea that you could control
Speaker 3: or reproduce or prevent these factors that lead to a
Speaker 3: side capable person not even an operative. It reminds us
Speaker 3: a lot of the old pickle about the flying car.
Speaker 3: A flying car is a great idea as long as
Speaker 3: you're the only person who has a flying car. If
Speaker 3: everybody has a flying car, it's a nightmare, it's chaos.
Speaker 5: It'd be real hard to paint a bunch of lines
Speaker 5: in the sky somehow.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll get there, I'm confident. Yeah, let's just save
Speaker 3: the sky.
Speaker 5: Just perpetual drones that form like lanes that you can
Speaker 5: fly in.
Speaker 3: And since multiple flying cars are a disaster, just like
Speaker 3: multiple SI capable operatives, you don't want anybody else up
Speaker 3: there in the proverbial air with you. And if you
Speaker 3: find them without hesitation, you swat them down, you remove
Speaker 3: them from the sky.
Speaker 5: I know this episode is full of fictional references, but
Speaker 5: it reminds me of Doctor Sleep and whatever that group
Speaker 5: is that goes in and tries to take out all
Speaker 5: the people that have the shining or.
Speaker 6: Yeah that rose the hat. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I liked that book quite a lot, and I thought
Speaker 4: the movie by Mike Flanagan was a lot of fun,
Speaker 4: and I like the way it depicted the shining stuff.
Speaker 4: I thought it was real digue tool that steam, Well,
Speaker 4: steam is what they want, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: But it ultimately just makes sense that you would want
Speaker 5: to eliminate anybody that could potentially have this capability.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the spoilers, folks, Doctor Sleep is great.
Speaker 3: But in the doctor's sleep example three two one spoilers,
Speaker 3: there's an added incentive, right, They're not just preventing the
Speaker 3: growth of rivals, it also consuming them provides power.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 3: So what if you could eat a sole or eat
Speaker 3: a mind.
Speaker 2: What if that's what's going on here?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 5: But if that's it, you get the psychic berry out
Speaker 5: the inside of their head, and now you've got more berries.
Speaker 3: There we go. That's basic economics, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: it's berry economics. I mean, this sounds dystopian, but if
Speaker 3: we look at the real world, we see that there
Speaker 3: are plenty of terrifying precedents for all the stuff we've outlined.
Speaker 3: In terms of countermeasures. Much of what we've discussed tonight
Speaker 3: applies one to one with nuclear weaponry. Like, yeah, a
Speaker 3: nuclear weapon is cool as long as I'm the only
Speaker 3: guy who has one. Yep.
Speaker 6: See you see it all the time.
Speaker 5: No, it's so true, and it mirrors. It's weird that
Speaker 5: it mirrors the US USSR whole conflicts Cold war thing
Speaker 5: in the very same way.
Speaker 2: It's very same motivations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess you know. On an optimistic note,
Speaker 3: we could say there are more peaceful options if you
Speaker 3: are part of some covert program to do any of
Speaker 3: the stuff that we're talking about. You could also try
Speaker 3: international agreements. You know, you could try to make some
Speaker 3: kind of regime of norms and laws and policies to
Speaker 3: prevent sigh powered disaster. You know, people did it kind
Speaker 3: of with nuclear agreements. It worked for a little bit.
Speaker 5: Well yeah, Voldemort was like, yeah, I know, we got
Speaker 5: like norms and treaties and stuff, but I'm Voldemort.
Speaker 6: I don't care about any of that.
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, it's me Voldemort. Earlier I told you I've
Speaker 3: been doing that, right.
Speaker 4: I've been stealing it. Ben, I'm not gonna lie in
Speaker 4: my my normal day to day.
Speaker 6: Life, I say from earlier all the time. Apropos. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it's fun.
Speaker 3: It works because if you're ever in a situation well anyway, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a different that's a different game.
Speaker 4: As you say, Ben, we do tend to get into
Speaker 4: situations here on stuff they don't get into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, sir, and there's no escaping it. We were
Speaker 3: talking about this earlier. Humans do not know most things,
Speaker 3: and Matt, I remember very very vividly when you said that,
Speaker 3: and I said, that's not a ding. There are just
Speaker 3: a lot of things to know. We don't know most
Speaker 3: of them, but we know there is no reliable evidence
Speaker 3: of psychic powers at the level that we see in
Speaker 3: all the beautiful fiction and film we've made. But we
Speaker 3: have argued in the past, and I think with a
Speaker 3: lot of validity, it is increasingly plausible that technology will
Speaker 3: create something like these capabilities in the real world, and
Speaker 3: sooner than many of us would like to think.
Speaker 5: Right yeah, we're already seeing some of that stuff. We've
Speaker 5: talked about technologies in play right now and studies in
Speaker 5: play that are attempting to what transcribe and then represent
Speaker 5: dreams via brain wave function, and that's happening in a
Speaker 5: clinical setting and that's happening with up close technology right now.
Speaker 5: But the way stuff moves, things get smaller and further
Speaker 5: apart from whatever it is they're meant to manipulate, and
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, maybe it's another handheld device, right because we know again,
Speaker 3: in a clinical setting, there are methods to read a
Speaker 3: person's thoughts and translate them, especially with visual imagery, like
Speaker 3: hook them up to the right equipment. Say, think of
Speaker 3: a case idea, and then the computer will show you
Speaker 3: a picture of the case idea they're thinking of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, now you just need to get you know, individual
Speaker 5: users to wear things on their head for long periods
Speaker 5: of time that can scan those same brain waves, like oh,
Speaker 5: I don't know, some Apple earbuds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, shout out neurolink. Not everybody involved
Speaker 3: in those experiments has died a little bit of faint
Speaker 3: praise there. But then also to your very diplomatic thank you, sir,
Speaker 3: thank you, But to the earlier example about the handheld,
Speaker 3: like the economy of scale, right, the miniaturization the handheld
Speaker 3: aspect of this, you could have what's the old thing,
Speaker 3: like the right hand gives, the left hand takes. You
Speaker 3: get your repulsor ray in your right hand and then
Speaker 3: your left hand. When you need to get intel from someone,
Speaker 3: all you have to do is put that palm on
Speaker 3: their head and then pull out what you need and
Speaker 3: then you know, boom, boom, scramble the eggs.
Speaker 5: Yikes, you get both hands at once, goes in, scramble
Speaker 5: comes out.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's strange, but it is. It
Speaker 3: is such a great question. We can't thank you enough,
Speaker 3: Joe for introducing us to this concept.
Speaker 4: It's fun for us, Joe, it's fun hopefully.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And guys, if you could have one psychic power,
Speaker 3: do you have a draft pick? Do you have one?
Speaker 3: You want to?
Speaker 4: There's caveats though, right, because it's like, it'd be cool
Speaker 4: to be able to read people's thoughts, but not all
Speaker 4: the time and not with with no fill. That would
Speaker 4: be terrifying and Tantama would probably drive you mad. It'd
Speaker 4: be cool to have like the force esque power telekinesis.
Speaker 3: Yet you Oh, I'll have to think of it.
Speaker 4: No, not gonna let it happen. No opting out this time.
Speaker 3: I I I said, like you, No, I agree anti telepathy.
Speaker 3: Telekinesis would be useful. It would depend telepathy would be
Speaker 3: useful again, I'm going back to Firestarter. You know, telepathy
Speaker 3: would be useful if you were able to push people
Speaker 3: in certain into certain actions. Right, that's a dangerous thing.
Speaker 3: I'm still thinking in terms of military capability. For sure,
Speaker 3: I think it. I like, I kind of like psychometry,
Speaker 3: but maybe that's too much.
Speaker 6: What is that one again?
Speaker 3: That's where you touch things and you know what happened
Speaker 3: in the past, So like you touch it a murder?
Speaker 3: I don't know, because that's kind of like telepathy.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 5: You take that one, Okay, you go vibes. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: go directional mind reading that is switchable. You can turn
Speaker 5: it on or off. Then we become you guys, the
Speaker 5: three of us become detectives and all we do is
Speaker 5: interview subjects. So you just like touch the person, I
Speaker 5: read their mind. And Noel, what are you gonna do.
Speaker 3: Bad cop? I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do, bad cop.
Speaker 5: Just fire in your hand and you just stand there menacingly.
Speaker 4: With fire or like some sort of bludget one of
Speaker 4: those truncheon type deals.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, oh do it like Skyrima Jack
Speaker 3: honjure a blackjack or spiritual Blackjack. That's a shout out
Speaker 3: to our pal Dylan Fagan.
Speaker 4: I mean it almost makes me think of like what
Speaker 4: if you add, through some freak occurrence or whatever, maybe
Speaker 4: a past friendship, access to someone's social media account, and
Speaker 4: you are no longer friends with this person, but you
Speaker 4: still have that access. Wouldn't it be like really hard,
Speaker 4: really too tempting to not look. It's the same as
Speaker 4: like the power, How are you going to not use it?
Speaker 4: Even if you have the ability to shut it off?
Speaker 4: It seems like it would be just a really tricky,
Speaker 4: dangerous path to walk.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the problem with paths of that nature is you
Speaker 3: don't often realize that you should have taken a different
Speaker 3: direction right until you're very far down the path. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that's another question about path dependency, which we've talked
Speaker 3: about in the past. Maybe some of the things that
Speaker 3: we're discussing have in some version happened already. If so,
Speaker 3: for now, that's the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3: I am going to have to take some time and
Speaker 3: really cogitate on this psychic power idea. But in the meantime, folks,
Speaker 3: we want to hear from you, what are the coolest
Speaker 3: psychic powers? What would be your suite of powers? If
Speaker 3: you want to do some really good character creation, give
Speaker 3: yourself a caveat too, you know what I mean. That's
Speaker 3: what makes people heroic is having some you know, like
Speaker 3: an achilles heel. You can read all the thoughts, but
Speaker 3: you can't speak all the languages. Right now, make it interesting.
Speaker 3: Hit us up. We try to be easy to find online.
Speaker 4: You can indeed find us online at the handle conspiracy Stuff,
Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook, where we.
Speaker 6: Have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy.
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Speaker 4: have video content galore for you to enjoy. On Instagram
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