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Speaker 1: Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme. Yo,

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Speaker 1: man dog, I ain't got time to waste, Steve, I'm

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Speaker 1: forgetting many questions to even start with the seven minute tribute.

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Speaker 1: You already know you're the man, Robaila. Okay, I'll start

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Speaker 1: with Okay, of course, I believe I knew that you

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Speaker 1: were born in Oakland. I don't know, but tell me

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Speaker 1: where were you born? I was actually born in Oakland, California. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: right in East Suckland Hating Hospital. I'm born and raised.

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Speaker 1: The rest of my family is from Louisiana, from Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: Sweet Port, Louisiana. And I'm the only out of fourteen,

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Speaker 1: I'm the only city slicker that was born in the city. Wait,

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Speaker 1: you have thirteen other siblings? Yeah? Are you the year

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Speaker 1: of the baby? A baby boy? But I have a

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Speaker 1: sister that's younger than me. What is it that like

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Speaker 1: in the household? Well, everybody wasn't the household. It was

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Speaker 1: it was a little bit of your dad. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of that. But we were like, uh, my

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Speaker 1: father has some kids before he married my mom, before

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Speaker 1: he's my mom and then you know my brother Duayne,

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Speaker 1: he had a different mother, So me and Dwayne have

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Speaker 1: different mothers. Okay, got you bind the family? Yeah? Is

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Speaker 1: the entire family musically inclined or just you and Duayne? No, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a few of us. My brother Randy, as you

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Speaker 1: probably heard him seeing on a record called Holy Smokes

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Speaker 1: and Gee whiz Y. That's that's the real talent in

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Speaker 1: the in the family. We were all like an afterthought

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Speaker 1: when he came to music. We just kind of snuck

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Speaker 1: in there a little bit. Where does Randy fall into

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Speaker 1: the bruce? He's like the He's like the fourth from

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Speaker 1: the oldest. He's like another brother named Alvey Wiggins. Who's

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Speaker 1: uh he's saying country music. Charlie Pry was his favorite

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Speaker 1: uh uh singer. So he was a country singer, but

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Speaker 1: he was he was a street thug though he he

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Speaker 1: was a real hardcore He was not no thunk. He

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Speaker 1: was a classy like gangster, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: But he was he's saying country music. Yeah, this explains

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Speaker 1: a lot of your wait, where does where does that?

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Speaker 1: Where does Dwayne fall in line with you? Wayne's Dwayne

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Speaker 1: is we had another brother in between me and Duanne

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Speaker 1: named Desmond. Desmond was the drummer in the family, and

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Speaker 1: Desmond passed away when I was seventeen years old. And

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Speaker 1: the Wayne is the older than him, one a couple

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Speaker 1: of years older than Desmond, So Dwayne would be Dwayne

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Speaker 1: would be like the six youngest boy. Okay, that's confused,

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Speaker 1: And actually I started thinking about it like that. I'm

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Speaker 1: like totally confused. Okay, So I know Thanksgiving and Christmas

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Speaker 1: has been hell of crazy. Yeah, it was actually good

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Speaker 1: because you know, it's just a lot of music in

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Speaker 1: the house and a lot of Teddy. You know, my

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Speaker 1: step mom loved Teddy Pendergrass and Osley Brothers. So that's

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Speaker 1: where we that's where our guitar stuff comes from because

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Speaker 1: we get to stay outside as long as we could.

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Speaker 1: If you know, if they if they was having a

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Speaker 1: little party, but in the house, it will be Teddy

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Speaker 1: Pendergrass and it'd be uh Osly brother So this is

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Speaker 1: the first time I got a chance to say ship

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Speaker 1: was on Fight to Power Fun Parents. What what is

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Speaker 1: your actual first musical memory that you I think for me,

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Speaker 1: I was like a kid who like who had you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to be outside playing with individuals

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Speaker 1: and your friends and I'm not really great friends and um,

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Speaker 1: but I think mine was when I first got my

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Speaker 1: first UM based amplifier. I had this uh unifox and

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Speaker 1: I had a copy fended jazz called the Orlando, and

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Speaker 1: I opened up the case and I thought it was

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Speaker 1: real fur. I thought I was rich because I had

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Speaker 1: this basic guitarist fur. It was this fur inside of it.

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Speaker 1: That was my first musical experiment experience really, And then

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Speaker 1: I played trump. I played first trumbone and jazz man too,

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to play saxophone, but they I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play saxophone but didn't have anymore. What ages this again?

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Speaker 1: This isn't just in grade school? Well, grade school I

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Speaker 1: was just starting to play. But by the time I

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Speaker 1: got to high school, I sat in the first chair

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Speaker 1: playing trumbone. Okay, So I mean, what what is it

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Speaker 1: like to grow up in Oakland? Um? Kind of watching?

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Speaker 1: You know, at least from my point of view. You know,

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Speaker 1: the legend of Oakland is it's slid on the family

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Speaker 1: Stone and Graham Central Station and Taro Power and all

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Speaker 1: all these like powerful musicians that are making like you know,

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Speaker 1: they're international stars. Like what kind of impression is that

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Speaker 1: leaving on you? For me, it was it was everything

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Speaker 1: because we're basically a Larry Graham was more of the

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Speaker 1: idol for for me because I'm a bass player, right

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Speaker 1: but right, so, you know, like one block you would have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a band plan and it was a band

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Speaker 1: in every garage everywhere we looked. It was like Natty

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Speaker 1: Natalie Cole had a band that was played in Oakland.

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Speaker 1: So when they were off and not touring, they would

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Speaker 1: be playing in the garage. So Willie Wild who played

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Speaker 1: with Graham, Central Station, and we would see like you know,

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Speaker 1: Larry Graham and Um, you know, riding through the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: on the Harley Davidson and then slide. That was their thing,

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Speaker 1: rides like Harley's, like the Choppers, the Short Choppers, and

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Speaker 1: so they were like our comic books characters for us

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Speaker 1: because I saw all we knew was like it was

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Speaker 1: almost like a like MCS, like Rappers. It was like

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Speaker 1: Battle the Bands. It was Battle Battle Rappers, Battle Battle

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Speaker 1: of the Band's Battle Base players. If you couldn't play

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Speaker 1: like um the jam or the Son called pile on

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Speaker 1: the base, how I got you that's a head country

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Speaker 1: and going to rock. I got that you will get

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Speaker 1: yours wrong. I mean everybody in our neighborhood. Everybody in

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Speaker 1: our neighborhood to play base, our our guitar or drums.

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Speaker 1: So I was about ten or eleven. You were walking

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Speaker 1: into a garage and the band was playing. Somebody would say, hey,

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Speaker 1: my little brother could play bass. So you you couldn't

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Speaker 1: really get on the base unless you knew how to

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Speaker 1: play pile, because somebody was gonna test you out. They

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Speaker 1: were gonna that was gonna say, and you play pile

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Speaker 1: and then you have to do like this, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: as soon as you say yes, they only give you

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Speaker 1: two seconds before the drummer just kick it off. Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute. This is how I knew you're a special individual.

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Speaker 1: Literally last week. Last week the roots like did our

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Speaker 1: like our first run in in like eighteen months. And

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Speaker 1: so I don't know how, but I think, uh, one

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Speaker 1: of the one of these songs from star Walk came on.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Sneaky Freak, and my band was

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Speaker 1: asking me about it, and the way I was putting

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Speaker 1: it to them was I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to accurately judge Larry Graham's cannon because I know,

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Speaker 1: like hit wise, you know, the first three gram Central

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Speaker 1: Station albums were like national hits like up until Ain't

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Speaker 1: no about to doubt it, but somehow it got a

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Speaker 1: little weird around not or Mirror was like a hit.

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Speaker 1: I remember that being a hit when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: But it's something about now do you want to dance?

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Speaker 1: And my radio sounds good to me? And the star

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Speaker 1: Walk album albums that didn't have hits on them, but

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Speaker 1: every from Prince to every musician I know, they swear

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Speaker 1: by those three records. And we were watching Graham Central

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Speaker 1: Station do pow last week and we were kind of

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Speaker 1: I was I was laughing because I was like, I

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Speaker 1: know this is good, but it wasn't a hit. So

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out, like, am I the only

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Speaker 1: one that got this song? And you mentioned so you're

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Speaker 1: saying to me in Oakland that song is a writer

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Speaker 1: of passage to everybody. I mean, I mean you could

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Speaker 1: walk up to a guy in Oakland and I have

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Speaker 1: a friend named Lord Nell and I didn't know this,

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Speaker 1: and um and um, he's just one day he asked

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Speaker 1: me what I know about Larry Graham and I'm like

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Speaker 1: looking at him like what this dude. All this dude say,

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Speaker 1: he's a security guy stand quin in prison. That's all

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Speaker 1: I know about him. He just goes but they'll smoke

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Speaker 1: a mama, And I'm like so and Oakland and and

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Speaker 1: oh Glinn, Larry is bigger than then this slid. Larry

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Speaker 1: is like Larry is like um. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: I went I was going on the snow trip and

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Speaker 1: Tahoe and I went to buy some mittens like ten

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Speaker 1: or eleven. And I was walking the store called Lungs Drugs.

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Speaker 1: It's in Saliandro and I walk in the store. I

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Speaker 1: walk in the grocery store in Larry Graham and Chockolate

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Speaker 1: is getting out of a black Thunderberg suicide doors with

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Speaker 1: the wig on, with the album released. How they looked

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Speaker 1: and release yourself when they're in the air jumping up

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Speaker 1: to sitting there is that Larry Graham. Wo So I

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Speaker 1: started following him around the grocery store, looking through boxes

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Speaker 1: and and everything. So before he walks out, I run

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Speaker 1: out and said at the bus stop right in front

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Speaker 1: of the store. But I'm not looking back at him.

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Speaker 1: I'm just looking at the street. So Larry and Chocolate

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Speaker 1: walk up to me in front of bus stop and

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Speaker 1: look dead at me and go how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like freaking out, Like it's like a Star

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Speaker 1: Wars moment for me. I should not go like and

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Speaker 1: I go, are you Larry Graham? He was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm Larry Graham. It's a chocolate And I was like

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Speaker 1: freaking out. Bro. So yeah, he was like a superhero

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Speaker 1: to us. But Pop, you have to answer your question.

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Speaker 1: How the jam David dynamite? But what about earthquake? Earthquake? Um?

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Speaker 1: They were trying to destroy their base with the towel

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff that year. And if you listen

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Speaker 1: to sit today the song today, right, So we used

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Speaker 1: to sit in the room as kids and just sit

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Speaker 1: by the turntable and wait for that bill to go off.

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Speaker 1: Every time we let somebody hear that song, we would

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Speaker 1: never let them leave for the first time into the

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Speaker 1: bell rings all the way out. When I let D'Angelo

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Speaker 1: here today for the first time, I made D'Angelo listened

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Speaker 1: to it, to the bill win all the way off,

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Speaker 1: because that's how we kind of grew up. Everybody had

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Speaker 1: to listen to the bill the first time. Dog, what's

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Speaker 1: rain for? Like? What three minutes. That's what I was

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Speaker 1: For those who don't know about the song, he's saying

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Speaker 1: for three minutes. You know, I'm also hating that I'm

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Speaker 1: having this conversation because I think I was ready to

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Speaker 1: just dismiss it because one of the one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the playlists that I have or my Spotify

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Speaker 1: is called Songs and and E Minor and Songs and

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Speaker 1: the Minor that I hate. I know for bass players

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Speaker 1: like E Minor is like a rite of passage key,

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Speaker 1: but for me, it's like unless you're trying to top

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Speaker 1: the Jam or shigning Star or thank you for let

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Speaker 1: Me be Myself like or or a song like Glide,

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Speaker 1: like I almost feel like that's such a taboo key

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Speaker 1: for bass players. But yet like the amount of songs

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Speaker 1: that I hear people trying to attempt to to hop

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Speaker 1: that Jump, that Cliff that film and Louise Cliff and

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Speaker 1: they never make it. Now now you got me, Like,

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Speaker 1: now I gotta go back and reconsider that just because

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Speaker 1: it's it means something in Oakland. That's that's very true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I can't I've never I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've ever wrote a song that was worth anything

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Speaker 1: any Minor. I care from Oakland. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: is that even on purpose, Like I just don't think.

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Speaker 1: I just don't every time I don't. I heard, I

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Speaker 1: mean I heard through the grapevine that you know, um

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Speaker 1: through one of my friends. Um she does does she

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Speaker 1: does that. She has a podcast What what What? Most Steps? Mom?

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Speaker 1: Um and UM erica' connor and and she talked to

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Speaker 1: you spoke to your mom, I think, and they said

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Speaker 1: you had perfect your mom's that you have perfect pitch

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Speaker 1: as a kid. Yeah, so I only have perfect pitch

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Speaker 1: for a natural because of Larry Graham. Wow. Anything past that,

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Speaker 1: I'm done. You tell me because I played every every

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Speaker 1: Graham song and I could just now I know where

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Speaker 1: I'm Yeah, I mean I based all my things on

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Speaker 1: whatever the song is. You know, like if you say

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Speaker 1: b Minor, I just instantly think, don't stop the year enough.

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Speaker 1: If you say it's also based on the print of

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's on g I'm like, oh, that's shake your

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Speaker 1: body down to the ground, So it's not. And even

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Speaker 1: I spoke to Billy Graham one time I was hanging

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Speaker 1: outside of Oakland collis in. I think you meant Reverend

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Speaker 1: Billy Graham. I'm like, well, no, Bill Graham, the proter,

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Speaker 1: the promoter. He saw me trying to sneak in this concert.

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Speaker 1: He left me in the concert and he's said, are

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Speaker 1: you musician? I said yes, And he says, what do you?

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Speaker 1: What do you play outside of play bass? Who's your

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Speaker 1: favorite musician? I said Larry Graham. He said Larry would

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Speaker 1: be much better if you stopped making battle records and

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Speaker 1: so and by him saying that, who know I was

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Speaker 1: gonna be ever making records? I didn't know. I never

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Speaker 1: tried to be a singer or anything. I just want

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Speaker 1: to play in the band. I never wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a singer. I never wanted to be a lead singer.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to play for a band and work

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Speaker 1: at a record store. That was probably it. And um,

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Speaker 1: but once he said that I started making music, it

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Speaker 1: always stayed in my head. Never tried to be a

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Speaker 1: battle band trying to make records. That makes sense because

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Speaker 1: even his songs were about how good of a band

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Speaker 1: we are and you'll never get to this level of

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Speaker 1: perfection that I'm iNTS to battist group from East to West.

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Speaker 1: What was it like the first time you got Larry

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Speaker 1: Graham's ere for real. When when I first got his yere,

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Speaker 1: I was I was at Eddie Murphy's house and he

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Speaker 1: was hanging out with Eddie Murphy and I'm like wow.

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Speaker 1: So he was just yeah, he was hanging out in

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Speaker 1: the garage. It was just me and him in the garage,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, when am I going to

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Speaker 1: break this to this dude? Did I've been like the

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00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 1: stalking my whole life and I'm because we're talking on

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Speaker 1: some creeens, just real cool, and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: forget it. Here we go. We're sitting in the garage

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Speaker 1: next to some jet skis. I said, hey, man, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in Oakland. I was in a band with

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Speaker 1: your son, Derek Graham and um in my high school band.

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Speaker 1: He was like really, I said, yeah, man, I played bass,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't have a bass on me. I had

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Speaker 1: an acoustic. So I tried to play something on acoustic

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Speaker 1: that was his and it just didn't work. Tony didn't

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Speaker 1: mean anything to him at that time. He I think

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Speaker 1: he knew about the Tonys, but he didn't know when

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Speaker 1: I played bass. Remember, nobody thought I was like everybody dance,

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Speaker 1: you know, Nobody knew that I was only made to

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Speaker 1: play Base because when we first came out, there were

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Speaker 1: no bands out and and everybody wanted us to be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had to compete with Guy and everybody

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Speaker 1: was out. So I had to put the base down

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Speaker 1: and had to become this other thing. So nobody really

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Speaker 1: knew me for playing bass, which I felt like Lioness

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Speaker 1: and Charlie Brown like, I put down my security blanket,

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Speaker 1: which was what's what's my base? That made me feel

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Speaker 1: very manly and tough and made me feel all these

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Speaker 1: different things. So when I put it down and became

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Speaker 1: and had to sing, I wasn't really confident about singing,

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Speaker 1: so he would have no way of knowing that I

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Speaker 1: was a bass player even though I played. I played

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Speaker 1: all the records on the base on based on the

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Speaker 1: Tony's album Wow. Got Graham in my studio and Blastlee

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Speaker 1: and he came over and I got on the base,

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Speaker 1: and I completely cannot play base in front of Ground.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't worked yet. Everything on I tried to play,

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Speaker 1: I was like bro for some reason, it just stopped

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00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 1: working right now, so I just left it alone. But

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00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 1: when he leaves, I'm like killing it. You got mine

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Speaker 1: control over Larry Graham. Yeah, stop talking, Yeah we we.

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Speaker 1: He played on my album, like two albums ago. We

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Speaker 1: did a slung together it's a hiding track and I

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00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 1: played guitar and Rob Bacon play guitar and he played

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Speaker 1: bass and he played right in front of me, and

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Speaker 1: I was just sitting there. I was playing guitar, like

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Speaker 1: this is crazy. And still you ain't playing bass in

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Speaker 1: front of him. Damn wow. I think I sat in

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Speaker 1: front of Slide and um Slide and and and George

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Speaker 1: Clinton maybe two times, and this is weird. Every time

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Speaker 1: I get around Slide it's weird too. I kind of

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00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,160
Speaker 1: just staring Slide and I have to leave because I'm

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Speaker 1: like this dude is like right. I just kind of

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Speaker 1: walked out and George says, George told Slide he said, uh,

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00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, boy did. He said, that's the answer

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Speaker 1: to you right here in Oakland. It's me. He said,

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00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 1: that's about me. And I was sitting there looking at

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Speaker 1: them because I'm friends with his daughter, and I was like,

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00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: all this greatness in the room, George and the Slot.

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Speaker 1: It was actually sitting in the mobile home in front

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Speaker 1: of Eddie Murphy's house for two hours, and so Eddie goes,

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Speaker 1: who is that in that in that mobile home? And

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Speaker 1: I goes and you' nobody was uh uh slide slide,

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Speaker 1: And George and Eddie started laughing. But I knew it

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Speaker 1: was them. They just sat in the in the in

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Speaker 1: the in the mobile home for two hours before they

317
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Speaker 1: walked in. What was they doing? You know? This was

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Speaker 1: this is no longer getting this is maybe four or

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Speaker 1: five years ago. Okay, gee yeah, yeah, he together, man,

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Speaker 1: I can see all this for hours. We gotta push

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Um. Before you started the group, I

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Speaker 1: know that you you you cut your teeth, uh playing

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Speaker 1: with bands, and I know that why I knew of

324
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: you because of your association with Sheila. But what acts

325
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,400
Speaker 1: were you playing with? Was she like like the first

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00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: national act that you got to and how that situation happened?

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Speaker 1: Was there anyone before that? No? Really before that, I

328
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: was I was playing locally. Um that really started to Tony's.

329
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Speaker 1: I played a lot of local bands and I played

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Speaker 1: I played for the Hawkins family a bit. Yeah. Joel

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Speaker 1: Smith was sort of my um my idol bass player.

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Speaker 1: He passed away one of the best bass players in

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Speaker 1: the world and drummers and Um, besides you. You you're

334
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 1: probably my one of my best favorite basing drummers. I

335
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Speaker 1: tell everybody said one thing about Quest. No bass player

336
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: can hey on Quest. If you play bass, you should

337
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: just murder him. Because the kids una understand that I

338
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 1: had is It's like what I used to look for

339
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:09,959
Speaker 1: as a kid. I would knock on if I hear

340
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 1: a drummer in the house, I would knock on the

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Speaker 1: door and say, hey man, I'll play bass. That's how

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00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,439
Speaker 1: I grew up. So I started playing with the Hawkins family.

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Speaker 1: I played with the Nette Hawkins. I played with Shirley Miller,

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00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: I played with Vanessa Bill Armstrong, and then I started

345
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: playing with Sheila and eight six audition. Levi caesar Um

346
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 1: got me the gig. He called me and said, you

347
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: know you want auditioned for Sheiley and Eddie six audition

348
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Speaker 1: And we went on on the Cherry Moon tour in Japan,

349
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: and when Lisa was still playing with where in Japan?

350
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 1: Well the way that he fired the revolution After Purple Rain,

351
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: it finally made the Internet. It's it's the Clippers on

352
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: the Internet. But there's a moment where Wendy and Lisa

353
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: say they knew that they knew the band was over.

354
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: He took the cloud guitar and and destroyed it on stage,

355
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: walked off stage, came back, did another solo, and then

356
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: destroyed that Cloud guitar. And then when they and Lisa

357
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: and Bobby looked at each other and it's like, yeah

358
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: it's over, it was over. So yeah, it was pretty

359
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,479
Speaker 1: It was pretty much over on that tour. But you know,

360
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 1: like I said, I was like eighteen years old, so

361
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: I just had a good time hanging out with Like

362
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: Cobby was a sound guy, um round Mark. I used

363
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: to get play out of his rig and and because

364
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: the band was breaking up, Prince would use us to

365
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: play all the after gigs. So I would play like

366
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Speaker 1: You Need Another Lover or the whole album. Um every

367
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 1: club Prince would call us to play instead of them.

368
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: Is that why one of our listeners asked me to

369
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Speaker 1: ask you about the opportunity to be in Princess band.

370
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: Was it from them? Well, I was. I was gonna

371
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: be an original band from Madhouse, the group called Madhouse

372
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: joint right. It wanted to be in being a band

373
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Speaker 1: called Madhouse. But when we heard the band was going

374
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: be wearing like mask over their face, which would have

375
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: could have been dope. We had already sort of formed

376
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: because at the time it was me and Tim to him.

377
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: Tim Riley who played with the Tony's, he was a

378
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: drummer and Um, I got the gig first, and then

379
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: Sheila was like, don't bring back a drummer. I brought

380
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 1: to him back anyway, he auditioned and and my friend

381
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: Carl Wheeler, he played keyboards, and all three of us went.

382
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: We rehearsed for like two months, fifteen hours a day.

383
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: Prince hired us to play for it because he was

384
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: paying the bills basically, and I was seeing his parts

385
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: in Erotic City. He would say stuff to me. But

386
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: the first time he walked up to us, he he

387
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: walked up to us with a yellow suit on, and

388
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: they came and he walks out and he goes, um,

389
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: what's your name? And you know, everybody said he name,

390
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: and then he goes, Hi, Prince. We're looking like, oh ship,

391
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: I mean we're in the middle of this, We're in

392
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: the middle of the stadium, like all this sound. I've

393
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 1: never heard this much power before. Because when we came out,

394
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: it was like when he came out, he would come

395
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: out around the world in the day and the curtains

396
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: would just be that the Yeah, And so I was

397
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: sitting I was sitting in a baseball dugout, which is

398
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: a folded like makes a folded cat movie, so you

399
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: can hear all the base and I'll just say the

400
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: Revolution was the best band he ever had, except you know,

401
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: I wish you, you know, death Daz would have been there. Yeah,

402
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: that was it. That was pretty much at school high school.

403
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: I played in jazz band, I played for choirs, I

404
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: played gospel, I played funk, I play every club there was.

405
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: And then it was then right off the back, it

406
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 1: was Prince and she like, look, I feel like this

407
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: is probably the only time I me get the opportunity

408
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: to ask you. And you know, I'm a print head,

409
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 1: but you already mentioned the Hawkins family, and I just

410
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: literally like, I, what is what is that circuit? Like

411
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: like that whole hospool circuit in in in the Hawkins.

412
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: Was it Walter or Edwin? It was Walter at this

413
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: at this time, it was more Walter that Edwin is

414
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: the pioneer who you know kind of produced that the

415
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: version of Old Happy Days because that's really an old song,

416
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: but he actually reproduced it his way, But honestly, playing

417
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: for playing for like the Hawkins family for us was

418
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: that's equivalent to like Tower power in Oakland. You know

419
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: we had Tower power then we had the Hawkins family

420
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: and they were the whole circuit. They were the whole gamute.

421
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: If you want to play gospel, that was the biggest god.

422
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: Besides you know, if you go down a little south,

423
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: you've got Andre Crouch. Did you play with Crouch at all? No? No,

424
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: justink my I'm a huge fan and I listened to

425
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: him like every every week. I listen to Dre Crouch.

426
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: But it's it's a big circuit. It was. It was

427
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: great music every Sunday morning every week. Uh. Right next

428
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: to to my high school was Love Centers First Church

429
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: where they recorded like follow Me in all these records.

430
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: So we would go to we would go to lunch

431
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: and we will listen to Joel Smith and Um Johnson

432
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: the boast rehearse at lunchtime. What yeah, How was the

433
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: money's gospel money? How's gospel money? As a teenager in

434
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: a band, how's the gospel money? Man? Let me tell

435
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: you something. I'm never worried about no money in the

436
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: music industry till now wait what now, I donunderstand. I

437
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: don't understand how much I love music. I made money

438
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: being an artist now, but I play so many gigs

439
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: because I love music. You know, whatever money I got Oakland,

440
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: Hey man, if he wasn't getting murdered or killed when

441
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: you wake up, everyone else is extra. I mean, we

442
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: used to. We had our sound managed to cost the Tony's.

443
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: Our sound managed to cost us a hundred and fifty dollars,

444
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: and we was making a hundred and fifty dollars playing

445
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: the clubs we just had. We just got rid of

446
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: the idle time that we didn't need to be hanging

447
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: out in the street because we were. We pretty much

448
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: just not no band. Dudes, if you're in Oakland, you

449
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: gotta do Oakland things too. When to you know, til

450
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: you get done with doing Oakland things? Okay? Since Too

451
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: Short was on the show and he kind of outed

452
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: himself as a nerd disguise as a gangster, we what

453
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: was I mean, how did how did you? Because I'm

454
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that that life chooses you like you don't

455
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: have a choice to say I'm not going to do

456
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: that or I will do that, because I feel like

457
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: that life chooses you, like, you don't have a choice

458
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: but to walk past this corner and past this group

459
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: and either get jumped in or beat down whatever. Like,

460
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: how did you avoid what I know to be Oakland?

461
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Because Oakland is probably want to be Rasies. I mean

462
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: the Bay Area in general, especially when we first started

463
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: going there, like in the nineties, so I know that

464
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: in the eighties and in the seventies. I mean, you're

465
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: you're forever gonna look thirty six, So I don't know

466
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: how old you are, but I know although you look

467
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: like old as hell? What was it I avoided? Because

468
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, like I have a lot of families from Chicago,

469
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: a lot of family in Chicago on the South Side

470
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: and the West Side, and and you know, your your

471
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: parents on the phone, you're hearing about everything just happened

472
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: to your family. And also with all those brothers and sisters.

473
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: I lost three brothers and sisters. On one of my

474
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: brothers committed suicide. One of my brothers, Alvi got was murdered,

475
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: and my other's sister hit by a car some cop

476
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: running from a kid, uh a kid running from a

477
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: copy this car or kill my sister at permanent brain damage.

478
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: It when you see trauma like that, you know, and

479
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: you've My father would say to me all the time.

480
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: He was like, if you see somebody um when my

481
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: brother killed himself because he couldn't get off dope. So

482
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: my father was saying, if you see somebody shooting the

483
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: gun and wrapid rapid fire, what you're gonna do? At

484
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: this point, I was so young, I don't even know

485
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: what rapp it men. And I said, I'm gonna turn

486
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: around and go the other way. That's what I'm talking about.

487
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: He was just so frustrated. And he also said, if

488
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, when you go to jail, it's a very

489
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: difficult thing. Down there is a system. It's hard to understand.

490
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: And you know, so when I do know one thing,

491
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: they give you one phone call. So I if you

492
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: go to jail, I think you should call somebody to

493
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: understand that system because I don't know anything about it.

494
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: And that's what KEPT mean, I'm not coming for you.

495
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: And my father wasn't only want to carry a pocket

496
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: full of money, a water full of money. So with that,

497
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: and and how much I love music, I will I'll

498
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: say that you know instrumentation musicians like earth wind and Fire,

499
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: and you know even like the mom was, the pop

500
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: was all the music I used here in Berkeley and

501
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and the hippie stuff that I used to

502
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: here in all the gospel. It really saved my life.

503
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: So when I when I run into people like Rest

504
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: in Peace, like Maurice White, and I see Verdine and

505
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: those guys, I just tell them you basically saved my

506
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: life about making great music because it kept me in

507
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: my room making music, making music. But on the other side,

508
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: I felt like my life was like the the narration

509
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 1: of the movie City of Gods. Like I was with

510
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: I was like the kid with the camera. I had

511
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: a moped and I would ride around Oakland. I would

512
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: witness some murderers because I was everywhere. I would see stuff.

513
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: I would keep going and I would be listening to

514
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: in my headphones and my Sony walking in with a cassette.

515
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: I'll be listening to Ronnie run to Russia. Ron didn't

516
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: run to the Russia before It's too late, you know,

517
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: But that nobody knew what I'd be listening to. And

518
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: um so between the hood of everybody listening to Needy

519
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: and Funkadelic and everything, my neighborhood was listening. My neighborhood

520
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: was big on funkadelic, right, So I think the music

521
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: sort of like you said, the street is the street.

522
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: The streets could be your father and your mother. But

523
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: my father was my father, my mother was my mother,

524
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: and music was like my god. Parents. Can I have

525
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: the word, because um, I know most parents I know

526
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: well sort of drift towards safety more than pursuing a dream.

527
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: So assuming that you know you're that you were passionate

528
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: about your your your musical pursuits were your parents and

529
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 1: like encouraging and nurturing on that end, or were they

530
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: just like nah boyd like go to post office, get

531
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: a job. Like my mother was like get you fifty

532
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: years in over at the Highland Hospital and you're my age,

533
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: you can retire. Uh. My father was a little bit um.

534
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: My father could play guitar a little bit. He could

535
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: see my dad kind of seeking like Sam Cook. But

536
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: my dad was just like I used to work in

537
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: you you know, in the parcel for for a minute,

538
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: I had all kind of like I had jobs. I

539
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: was doing landscaping. It was another like you couldn't be

540
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: at my house and and tell somebody you're gonna be

541
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: a start and leave me alone. That ship was not

542
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: gonna lie. So uh, I think my father told me

543
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: when I told him I got this gig, he just

544
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: told me said, hey, if you want to, if you could,

545
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: because everybody was saying, you know, church people, you're going

546
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: to here because you're playing R and B, and my

547
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: dad would stay son the church KYFG is the same

548
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: key as R, R and B, the same KYRG. If

549
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 1: you don't, if you want to, if that scares you,

550
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: I got some work for you at it's a naval

551
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: air you know, if you've been come and work here.

552
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: But other than that, I just I think I got

553
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: a job playing this gig at this club called Lucky

554
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: Lion with this band. And I told my father because

555
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: I bust my fingers at ups, I bust three of

556
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: my fingers on the conveyor belt and then my nails

557
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: came right off. I quit because I didn't want to.

558
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: You know, they had these safety working days, and if

559
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: you're ringing the bell, you mess up the whole staff

560
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: safety working days. I tried to hold it for a minute,

561
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: but when the nails came out hit the alarm, called

562
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: my dad and said, I got this gig. I wanna

563
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: do this gig up and my dad said, well, don't

564
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: tell your mom. Do not tell your mother. If you

565
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: need some money, call me. And I never had to

566
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: call him because I had those little undred fifty dollar gigs.

567
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: But my mother didn't find out that I quit that

568
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: job until she saw me on the Tonys on arseni

569
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: or Hall Wow, And what did she say? She did?

570
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: My mother didn't know I could sing. She she know,

571
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: she knew, she saw me kind of thing. Unf I mean,

572
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: but that's not Nobody knew I could sing. Nobody in

573
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: my high school because I was singing at home. You

574
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: don't mess around. But my mother didn't realize that I

575
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: wasn't working at you ups until she turned to Arsenio

576
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: on it was Tony Tony an Tony and I was all,

577
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, going for it, dog, yo, man, you don't

578
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: even know between between your love of pal and that story.

579
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: No one believes me when I tell my dad wanted

580
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: to say that my dad didn't know about the Roots

581
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: until our our second album. They're like, yeah, yeah, you

582
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: hide that ship yo, Wow hid you can't. It's none

583
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: of that. Come on, when I got a dream or

584
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: what wowdream? What a dream he won college and he

585
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: wasn't having that like just hang with that, Tarik. No,

586
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: you go sa that insurance that Tarik believe that hold

587
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: him right. Um, around eighties six, I know that. Um.

588
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: You know Foster McElroy produced the first Tony record. But

589
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: what was what was like the relationship? Did you guys

590
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: have any runnings with like j King the club New

591
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: Vot Click. Yeah. Well I lived in Sacramento for after

592
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: I moved out of Oakland. I came back off the

593
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: tour by first tour after the eight my mom had

594
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: moved to Sacramento. I came into my house and it

595
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: said we moved to Sacramento, and now the house I

596
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: bought my mom bought her on house. Everybody think I

597
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: bought my mother house. It was in Jet magazine and

598
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: he bought his MoMA house. My mother here, by the

599
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: damn thing. Good night. When you first saw the roots

600
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: in Sacramento, you still living in your mom's house. No, No,

601
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: I had bought a house in Sacramento. I followed. I

602
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: followed her. I lived there at the first couple of years.

603
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't buying nothing, but I had a toyo. The

604
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: trade here wrapped all from my sister. I wasn't buying nothing,

605
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: but I was very fruble. I wasn't. I didn't believe

606
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: the hype either. They scared me so much about being

607
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: an artist. I never really bought into the whole artist thing. Really.

608
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: I kept I kept a very low pro but I

609
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: wrote just Me and you and my Mother's in my

610
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: room in my mother's house on an MP and a

611
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: T three accord. And I wasn't I wrote that in

612
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: my room. Wow. Yeah, So then I was. I just

613
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: so I didn't run into j King a lot um

614
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: Club New Vau, because he actually spun off Danny and Tommy,

615
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: and Denny and Tommy went on to get a production

616
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: deal with Ed Exstein over at um Wing Records, which

617
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: he became the predent president of PolyGram. And after that, right,

618
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm Billy ex Stein and x Stein was Ed x

619
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: Stein was R. Clive Davis. After that, we never had one.

620
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: Since I've been pretty much on my own, I never

621
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: had to go to I had no connect after that.

622
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: After that was just connecting with artists and just kind

623
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: of just um doing myself. But Danny and Tommy was

624
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: definitely the ones who who spun us into making songs

625
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: because we had just left Print and I don't know

626
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: what what happened to us right after that. I don't

627
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: think we had any we we didn't have any producer

628
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: skills or any like. We knew structure, song structure, but

629
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: we wasn't studying it. We would have came out trying

630
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: to be probably Monserati and somebody if it wasn't for

631
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: those too. One, if Prince is offen you an opportunity

632
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: to do something, in your mind, it's like, yo, we're

633
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: about to make it. Like not how much courage did

634
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: it take? But obviously you gave them a note and

635
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: at one point, like was basically park even trying to

636
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: sign you guys, you never got it, never got that far.

637
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: I was just like Sheila was gonna fire us pretty

638
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: soon because she was going on to play on the

639
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: Signs at the Times tour. So like Prince will get

640
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: on the bus, he would play. He would play Signs

641
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: at the Times the whole album mark. He would he

642
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: would see me in the club and were like he's like,

643
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: come over here, I want to play you something, and

644
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: then we'll walk to the speaker. He would look at

645
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: the DJ and he was like, hold on he like,

646
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: put your head in the speaking, so both of us

647
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: would put our head inside of a folded cabinet in

648
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: like this, and then he'll points to the DJ and

649
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: then he played house Quake. And at that point I

650
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: knew Sheila was on our way and we was on

651
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: our way home. And then they put like they put

652
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: like her role manager Roy uh got his name at

653
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: the time. They put McDonald applications in our and our

654
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: bunks on the tour circle back again? So wait, circle

655
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: back again, Tony, Tony, Tony, what was your circle back

656
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: with Prince and Sheila? Appreciate that I did? I did,

657
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: I did? I said, let us sit for a second.

658
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't know. I didn't when I considered

659
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: take the moment he walked up with Mickey d applications

660
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: in our bumps. Yeah, because that was it, and we

661
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: were going home because he was playing all these hits,

662
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: you know, offishing coffee was like damn. So he took

663
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: Levin Caesar, he took Sheila, and he took Bonnie Boy

664
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: and we were all in the band together with Sheila

665
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: talking about I know nothing about like Bonnie came from

666
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: Old correct, Bonnie was from Oakland. She was funky. I

667
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: mean she would pick up my basse and showed me

668
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: some funk licks that I didn't know. And yeah, so

669
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: her boyfriend growing up was in this band called Windstorm. Right.

670
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: Her boyfriend and back in the day was Rusty Allen.

671
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Rusty Allen. She did that Rusty Allen's uh Larry's replacement

672
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: and family. So she knew all that bass stuff from him.

673
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: So she used to show me licks that I one day,

674
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: we're sitting down and I'll show you what she showed me.

675
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: She took my basse in the in the back of

676
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: the buzz and just took my basse like give me that.

677
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: It just started like and almost like damn like. So yeah,

678
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: Bonnie was. She was a Oakland on the Oakland's Greatest

679
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: she Um. She was a vocal colt. She was a

680
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: keyboard player with Sheila. She doubled Sheila vocals on the tour.

681
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: If you listen to Kissing you did, I did. I

682
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: produced for a Puffies group. Total um. That that the backgrounds,

683
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: that's her. That's Bonnie Boye. Wow, did not know. That's awesome.

684
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: So she was she was. She was. She was all

685
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: that man so that experience. Hey, one more quick question.

686
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: I know also know, I know that um around. Wait

687
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: was was Rosie from Oakland or was she from l A.

688
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know exactly what she's from, but

689
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: she lived in Oakland most of her life. She was

690
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: like she was in that circle as well, and didn't

691
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: come until the second draft wouldn't be g but I

692
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: wanted to know if she made her rounds in the

693
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: local Oh, she was like, she had like local gigs

694
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: and everybody play with her. She had a I mean,

695
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: Prince pretty much adopted everybody out of Oakland, from Miko

696
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: Weaver to Sheila's first bandakand Too. Yeah, bro, everybody getting him? Man, Oh,

697
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: everybody Prince used after the Revolution was all Oakland based,

698
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: mostly a Latin the next two bands obviously. Okay, that

699
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: makes that makes total sense. Okay, so circle back now

700
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: after the McDonald's applications are on your bed but you're grown.

701
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: You're right, Tony, Tony, Tony, what's the first running the

702
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: Prince and Sheila Eli, now that you have proven your

703
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: stelf to the world, Yeah, well, I think, uh, the

704
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: first one was when I wrote this song on my

705
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: first song called Born Out to Know, and I wrote

706
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: this line said for no reason. It's only because I'm

707
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: a lazy songwriter and I just wrote this lyric that said, uh,

708
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: things are getting crazy. I'm not wearing Paisley because I

709
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: was born out to know. So Prince must have heard that.

710
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: Invited me into a show in Hamptonsvirginia on the Love

711
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: Sexy tour and he asked me if I wanted to

712
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: come on stage, and I'm like, yeah, sure. So I

713
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: come on stage and he said, you want to come

714
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: up and play basketball. So we're just shooting basketball on

715
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: the court. He's shooting around and then he goes Then

716
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: it gets to Mike and he goes out, here's a

717
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: little boy who made the pays the rhyme. And I'm like, damn,

718
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: he heard that, and so right, boy, that's where I was.

719
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: I was at boy now, But to him, here's a

720
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: little boy who made the pays and rhyme. And I'm

721
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: like wow. So he gives me the microphone. He leaves

722
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: me on the stage. Now this is Pat and I'm like, well,

723
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of band members up there. I'm like,

724
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, like you know, so

725
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: I started singing Heylo Walter and the crowd, and she

726
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: loves on drums, Bonny and everybody. And this time Prince

727
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: had from what I heard, princes never really invited people

728
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: on the stage for that, No Leanney, nobody, and he

729
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: invited me on the stage. And so everybody in the

730
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: band that knew me, they was all crying, and I'm like,

731
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: why are they crying Because they were saying because he

732
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: was being so nice to me. But he always been really,

733
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: really really nice to me. He always like invited me

734
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: out to dinner in Japan. You wanna go, you wanna

735
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: get something to eat, You want to go do this.

736
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: You need some girls, you need some models. He was

737
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: always like that to me. Um, it was weird because

738
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: nothing about Princess when Um, when when I was gonna

739
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: be in Madhouse, he told me, he told Levi to

740
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: tell me to go listen to the Chamber Brothers. I

741
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: never heard of the Chamber Brothers. So when I got

742
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: back home off the tour, after I decided not to

743
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: go back with friends like the Prince thing never came

744
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: to a few fuishtion like people thought, but I remember

745
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: him saying I should listen to the Chamber Brothers. So

746
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: I went to this place called Leopold's in Berkeley, and

747
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: I bought every Chamber Brothers album there was and when

748
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: I listened to it, they had a son called the

749
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: Spiritual Negro Spiritual called Wade in the Water and they

750
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: it was so dark and how they did it. And

751
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: my first single ever what the Tony's was hey little Walter.

752
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah right, so Prince was like, uh kind of responsible

753
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: for giving me a little light on that, which became

754
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: it Tony's first ever ever single hit song and Sindbad's

755
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: first video appearance. That's right. Wait, I just want to

756
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: put it in perspective because a little confused. Yeah, the

757
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: way that the Love Sex Tour was set up was

758
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: Prince also had a basketball court on the stage. Stage

759
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: it was it was the show was in the round.

760
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: I mean like his last rounce of shows worth so

761
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: it was like an elaborate It was probably his most

762
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 1: expensive setup. So yeah, uh wait, speaking of which, speaking

763
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: of who the song to six to one five, especially

764
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: the pre internet, whose idea was that was in mine?

765
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: Was that your brother? All right? First of all, can

766
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: you explain because I feel like the songs that your

767
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: brother produces sounds the way that you guys work like,

768
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: is there an alpha for the person that brings the

769
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 1: song to to the forefront or does he just work

770
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: on a song by himself and you work on a

771
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: song by yourself and you just figure like, Okay, well

772
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: here's our tony album or how does that work? And

773
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: then in the later albums it was really exactly what

774
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: you said. And the other one maybe the second album around.

775
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: The first album was mainly you know, Danny and Tommy

776
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: and us, but the first single, like Little Walter was

777
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: just me, uh, Danny and Tommy, those guys we got

778
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: our first song. They didn't even show up to the

779
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: studio at all, so um for the first song. And

780
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: so but Dwayne, Dwayne will come up songs at home.

781
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: He will he'll come in and will get together and

782
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: figure him out. But he will come up with a

783
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: title like two six one point five that's actually a

784
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: peno call for messing with. Yes, you know that's that's

785
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: that's crazy. You're the only one everybody we know who

786
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: knows that. I had to ask you, how would he

787
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: know that? Should I ask that? I didn't mean, I

788
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 1: don't think I think I think he was At the time,

789
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: he had dated a younger lady he was his friend,

790
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: and um, I think her auntie was an attorney. She was,

791
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: but she was pretty much a fast as one of

792
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 1: the fast as little girls who was like, you know, smart,

793
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 1: they're really smart, and was just like, you know, this

794
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: is like a two six one point five, and so

795
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: like that's the song. And so he wrote a song

796
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: about it, and we sort of took it from that. People,

797
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: let me tell you about a best friend. He's the

798
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: one first in and look and I always I always

799
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: love that show as a kid. So I added that

800
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: part the vamp of the song, and um, yeah, I

801
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: just yeah, that's the way and answer you a question. Yeah,

802
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: I was gonna say in an interview, you guys wants

803
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: to describe yourself, you said that you were seventy yourselves

804
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: the time and then ten percent the monkeys. That that

805
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: was the way. I had nothing to do with any

806
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 1: of that, the monkey. But the thing the thing is, though,

807
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: I mean I understood the monkey's reference. Mind you, he

808
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: said it on Soulturing, so like that would have thrown

809
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: everyone off, but I got it that you guys like

810
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 1: humor the time. The time definitely showed that humor because

811
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: we was none of that. If I could just clear.

812
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: If I could just say who we were, I would

813
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: say we were We were like everything that the Oakland

814
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: but Oakland gave us, and we were a bit of

815
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: trying to be like an earth Wind and Fire and

816
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: the Commodore's And like my brother used to singing like

817
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: this song called Hello Sunshine, Hello sun Shine. Dwayne was that.

818
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: Dwayne was more like the Pbow Bryson who played guitar.

819
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: We were a little bit of We were a little

820
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: bit of the Isley Brothers, a little bit of earth

821
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: Wind and Fire in the Commodores, and we we were

822
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: like a funk band. We were more like a brick.

823
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: I think that's who we were. I think doing Dwayne

824
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: would say things that he thought sounded great on TV.

825
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean because you guys had you guys

826
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: were funny. You guys showed humor in like your pop

827
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: culture references and all that stuff that the wrong isn't

828
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: the wrong kid? Yeah, I mean, but for me, I

829
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: was always trying to be honestly. For me, I was

830
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: only trying to I was more of a hip hop

831
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: East Coast hip hop head, so I was always trying

832
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: to find out how why was those drums so dirty

833
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: and hip hop, and our drums were so clean. So

834
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: my whole quest was to find out how to you

835
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: to get dirty drums on my music. And how I

836
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: found out was I was I s ice Cube on

837
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: our first tour and because we toured in w as

838
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: it was, it was it was crazy because there were

839
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: no other bands, and I think they needed us on

840
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:41,959
Speaker 1: the tour because it was for insurance reasons. It wasn't

841
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: you know, and it was for insurance reasons. Nobody told

842
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: me that. I had to figure that out. But anyway,

843
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I was hanging out ice Cube and he told me

844
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: that the reason why drums sound like that, it's these

845
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: It's called break beats, and you could get up. You

846
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: could get these records from like forty five kings from

847
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: the Swap Meat to the Swap Meet, and I bought

848
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: every break beat and that's when I started hearing the

849
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 1: meters and that's the music I really love. And then

850
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: hip hop was like tried and everybody was sampling Slide

851
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: and the songs that I like, and I was like,

852
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna get into was more of that,

853
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: and then I try to marry the both. So what

854
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: was that project that came after that, after you had

855
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: that conversation with I c me, you went out and

856
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: brought all that stuff. What was the Tony Tony proct?

857
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: So no revival? I was gonna say, what lessons did

858
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: you learn, assuming that you guys took the lead on it,

859
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: what lessons did you learn on revival um that you

860
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: didn't know on the Who record? And how did you

861
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: break to Danny and Tommy? Because I mean the Who

862
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: record was a hit. I mean, you guys have three

863
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: hits on it, So what's the like are you talking

864
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: to Ed x Stein saying like, look, I think we

865
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: could do this on our own. Let us I think

866
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: we just said that we wanted to do it on

867
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: our own. I don't know if we knew what the

868
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: hell we were doing it all. We were definitely you know,

869
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I'll give kudos to add because he

870
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: let us actually do it. But we've we've never had

871
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: to end our person nowhere near our rooms ever. We

872
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: just we just spent too much money figuring out on

873
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: that second album. I think we rented a Sinclavera for

874
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: like two hundred fifty dollars for the whole time, So

875
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: we got ripped off on that. So that's what I learned,

876
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: uh on how not to spend money on something you

877
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: didn't really need about to say that, y'all even use

878
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: it on that album, were using on the whole album.

879
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: That's why it sounds so clean, like whatever you want

880
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: to it's like, so it sounds like crisp. We just

881
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: we just interviewed Pat mcfenny, who also, like you know,

882
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: he's the think King. Yes, exactly. So he was explaining,

883
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 1: like the early stages of that was like very expensive

884
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: to operate when we looked at it. We looked at

885
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: the budget and I was like, okay, we'll never do that. Also,

886
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: I knew that, Um, you guys worked with Keith Crouch

887
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: on that album as well. He Keith, Yeah, Keith played um.

888
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: He's played This is a funny story. Keith. Keith played um,

889
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: he played He played bass synthesizer on maybe one of

890
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: the songs he tore with us. He didn't really he

891
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: played on those with the days I think okay, um,

892
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: but so and so me and Keith got into a

893
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: little altercation over this girl like when it was funny.

894
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: So right after he played almos So when I did

895
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: Tony's in the wrong key. I introduced everybody who played

896
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: with us. He heard it. His name used to be

897
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: on it. But when it got to his name, I said,

898
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: and we had this one man and his name is

899
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: and his name and his name is So and you

900
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: know Betty. So we're really cool. We're really cool. He

901
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: told me. A long time ago, he said, bro, I

902
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: was in the room with all my friends, and he said,

903
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 1: I was listing the record and said, by the name

904
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: of I was petty those days. I was very petty.

905
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: Oh man, I can't believe that ship. So you got

906
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: the game? Say it again? Did you get to PS five?

907
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: Just wait, Rol? You see him a PlayStation? Is that?

908
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 1: What's going on? Right? No, you don't want to answer

909
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: that question, Raphael. You want to finish the interview. Oh, okay,

910
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: your gamer? I am now, Yes, I was an ex gamer.

911
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: I thought I got out the game, and then when

912
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: I got this, uh my, my entire staff was like, yo, man,

913
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: your life is about to change. I'm afraid you open it.

914
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: The box is blacked out, Yes it is. Can we

915
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: see it? He want? Can we see it? Yes? Blackouts?

916
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: My game company is called il Phonic, and I've never

917
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: really questioning. He was like, what is this? So I

918
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: sent him a game to say, you know, we got

919
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: a game called r K getting. It's me and my engineer.

920
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: We started a game company called il Phonic and I'm

921
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: a nas is one of my favorite m sees. So

922
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: I called it Illphonic after Ilmatic and um yeah, so

923
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: we it's a guy in the world again. Thirteen years

924
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: of uh so, my partner Chuck brun Gard, we started

925
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: the game. We started this game coming together because we

926
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: were finding the heart of the music industry to like,

927
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: even we make records like record industry, people wouldn't even

928
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: let us makes our own records for other people that

929
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: we produced. So I came up with another game, a

930
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 1: game that we used to laugh about called Ghetto Golf

931
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't let me in the fighting game on

932
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: Russell Simmons label. I knew I could never be on

933
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: the game. It was an RB, it was a rap game.

934
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: So we started this coming. We started this company back

935
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: then and we split up to start the game. He

936
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: moved to Denver. We started at my studio and like

937
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: after thirteen years, we did Predator Friday the thirteen and

938
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: doing really well. And then this is the first year

939
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: I started I said something about it because really, in

940
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: the gaming world, people don't really care about you being

941
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: a musician. They just want to have funny you know,

942
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: video games is about gameplay, and um, one of our

943
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: guys that Steve Wetman, is the visual guy who get

944
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: all the styles of music, which is uh, you know,

945
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: like the music is kind of based on like if

946
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: it was a futuristic dealer or fifty years from now

947
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: or like jungle funk, and it's a lot of different

948
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: people who um, a lot of different musicians who did

949
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: I didn't do any music in the game. Usually when

950
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: I talk about the video game, people go, oh, you

951
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: put music in the game. I'm like, uh no, No,

952
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: I owned the game company last game. Yeah, I just

953
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: want invested invested in it, and it's doing really well.

954
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: And in Quest is the first person that I actually

955
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: sent a personalized lacked out. It's a multiplayer Yeah, it's

956
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: a multiplayer game. Um um, you could play, you can play,

957
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: you could play it in the configuration on one on one,

958
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: you could do the way. But it's a quroberative multiplayer game.

959
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: If you know anything about games, and we just really, uh,

960
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: I just want to get into this world because I

961
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: just felt I found it kind of hard beauty in

962
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: the music injury so clicky, you know what I mean?

963
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: Like I said, I haven't had a goal to person

964
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: since Edex time. So I said, you know what, the

965
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: way the way the music industry is now with streaming.

966
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: You know, my music is not a game, and in

967
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: games they stream, so I was figured I should get

968
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: into something where streaming was gonna be very popular. Game.

969
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: So how many games you got in game? Like you

970
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: can go? How many games you got out Friday the thirteen,

971
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: the last one in Predator and be working on Ghostbusters

972
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: right now? And RK in his art right now it's

973
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,959
Speaker 1: it's an Epics store in two thousand and twenty two.

974
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot more platforms and um a

975
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: lot more platforms than just PS five, But right now

976
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: was the Epics Store. On PS five, I was game,

977
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: what games do you play? Like? What some of your

978
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: games that you just play to be a game? I

979
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 1: could play Caller do you a little bit a lot?

980
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: But I'm really I'm really like a sports junkie, like

981
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm a statement man two K something like people like

982
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: to play nice my son, my son? They be on

983
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: two K he got new when he's been killing it,

984
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: does he play he plays two K he's on he's

985
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: on two K. I mean he was you know, like

986
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: all the kids when he was on Fortnite, you know

987
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: heavy when that was that was popular. But he's more

988
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: of a two k uh guy. I'm more of I

989
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: do first I could do first person shooter, but I'm

990
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: more so like you know, Resident Evil survival horror, like

991
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm in the story type ship. You know what. Okay, yeah,

992
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: that's what this is. This is check it out. I

993
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: gotta P five too, I gotta P five. But I

994
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: want to say to question, congratulations on on the documentary.

995
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: I must have watched it like seven times on my couch.

996
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: And so you don't think you're about to leave a

997
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: maror he thinks he's satting down like he's thinking about

998
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: the clothes. I'm not sure. I just want to make

999
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: sure that I said that because when that comes up

1000
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: in my queue, like, I get chills watching the Fifth Dimensions.

1001
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: I've never seen the move, so to watch it come

1002
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: to life and to know that that happened, and to know,

1003
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: like I mean, people that need they were black. I mean,

1004
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: there's so much question is always passing out history like

1005
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm definitely using it for my next project because yeah,

1006
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: oh wow, yes you know what he told me his

1007
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: daughter to me, Yeah, that's amazing. I shall be calling you.

1008
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: What was how not? How or why? What was the process?

1009
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: How was Lisa Bonne the deciding factor in directing uh

1010
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: the California video? M hm for never end, A lot

1011
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: of people turned the treatments. She just had the best.

1012
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: She had the best treatment, honestly, And we were always

1013
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: trying to we were always trying to be different. At

1014
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: the same time, we didn't want to. We didn't want

1015
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: to out our our the audience that we gained, right,

1016
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: but we felt like we could gain a new audience

1017
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: and we could. You know, we felt like Lisa just

1018
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: she had to adge, she had to edge on them

1019
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: all the interior decorating that that I like, Um, she

1020
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: kind of gave me an apartment that I've never had

1021
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, um, just at that time,

1022
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know that she was heavily direct like into

1023
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: directing videos or whatever. So she had like a rep

1024
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: that said, like open, yeah, I guess she did. I

1025
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: don't think she did it too much to think she

1026
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: I think she disliked the record, and she just offered

1027
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: a treatment, and we just chose her to to direct.

1028
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: If the Prince was about to hire for one of

1029
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 1: the songs on Diamonds Pros, the thing like walk don't Walk. Okay,

1030
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: whether they shot it, I'm not certain, but I believe

1031
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: that she was. I don't think they shot it, you know,

1032
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: I mean, Prince is the kind of guy that will

1033
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: do a movie and then put it away for like

1034
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: forty two seconds. But you know, Oh, my boy wanted

1035
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: me to ask you, how did you talk Don Cornelius

1036
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: into the House Party video which I think Don does

1037
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: a cameo. Don Cornelius has a cameo and the I

1038
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: don't know what you come to do? Uh, I don't know.

1039
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: I don't think Don is gonna like me too much.

1040
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, Wait what what you do? Don? I

1041
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: love we loved, I love Don on me, I said.

1042
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: I watched, So I think I found is that it

1043
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: wasn't that he didn't like me. I remember doing soult

1044
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: Train one time, and I just remember all these girls,

1045
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: like I call it halftime when everybody's taking a break.

1046
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: First time doing SoulTrain, and you're like, oh, this is Soultrained.

1047
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: But then when I saw all the girls like feed

1048
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: herding and eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and half time, I

1049
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: was like, this ship is kind of cheesy a little bit,

1050
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: right they feed them KFC and then um it was bad,

1051
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: you know. And so but then we was on there

1052
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: with a new edition, in a new edition, like they took,

1053
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: they did one take, they looked at the monitor, they

1054
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: came back, they did it over. They did over about

1055
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: four or five times until they liked it. And Little

1056
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: Rest in Peace Little Silas was an m c A

1057
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: Records at the time, and so when we got up

1058
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: there to our performance, man, we performed once and they

1059
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: were like, got it. I'm like, we don't get to

1060
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: look at the monitor, you see if we like what

1061
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: I What I realized is that, you know, our label

1062
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: probably wasn't spending spending the sponsor money. It's a nice

1063
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: way to phrase that, you know. So we were pretty

1064
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: much a one and done. And when I found out out,

1065
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: I just I was kind of just a little disheartening with,

1066
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, the way that I was learning on the

1067
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: fly how the industry was. So so when I did

1068
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: get involved, I was done with Soul Trained. So when

1069
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,919
Speaker 1: I did get involved. Um yeah, they they they wanted

1070
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: me to do to perform on Soul Train, and I

1071
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: was like, and I'm not doing Soul Trained, so they

1072
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: begged me to do it. So I was like, I

1073
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: stood outside the paramount until it was time for me

1074
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: to walk and say, I don't want to be in

1075
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: the dressing room. I stood outside. I walked in and

1076
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: I performed and I walked out. And then um years later,

1077
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: I was up the street called whitenecka as it's a

1078
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: little golf, a little driving range, and I went to

1079
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: this little driving range just to hang out some balls

1080
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: and Don Canuees was there just hitting balls and he

1081
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: just walked up to me and we had a amazing conversation.

1082
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: He was just giving me props in Solb'm watching you.

1083
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: I'll see what you're doing. And he didn't he he

1084
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: didn like me. But I was young and I was

1085
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: confused about the politics. You know what I mean. Nobody,

1086
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: nobody was spinning on bread with him at my label.

1087
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: You know that you have dreams of like being on

1088
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: this legacy show and then you get to see how

1089
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: the sausage just made and it's not like how you

1090
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: think it is. And that is disappointing. Yeah, you know

1091
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: you could be like, you know, like you mean to

1092
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: actually throw these saucers on the ground and kick him

1093
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: around and then put him in the bun exactly. Yeah, Okay,

1094
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: I gotta jump to suns and Soul. So the first

1095
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: time that I had I didn't have an interaction with you.

1096
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: This is weird enough. We had an audition, uh with

1097
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: that x Stein and we were going to sign to

1098
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: PolyGram H And I went to I went to some

1099
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: dinner uptown. I forget where it was. You were also

1100
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: at this restaurant, and I can overhear your conversation, and

1101
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: you were talking about this tour and you were telling

1102
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life. Like

1103
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: I would think that you were talking about like like

1104
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: Hammer the God's era led Zeppelin, and you weren't talking

1105
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: about You were talking about touring with Janet Jackson, now

1106
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: without you burning bridges from one to ten And I'm

1107
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: not talking about the Tony Tony Tony side of things

1108
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: for one to ten. How crazy was that Janet Jackson tour?

1109
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: It was a ten that planted a lot of seeds

1110
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: in my head on like those things can happen on

1111
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: the route. Yeah, it was just you know what it's like,

1112
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, we're of course we were like huge, j

1113
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use Michael. I'm a Jackson five fan, you know.

1114
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: So I grew up with the Brothers, the first black families,

1115
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, I love Randy, loved to Jackson.

1116
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: So just to get on the tour and learning tour,

1117
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: you just learned tour politics right, and the tour politics

1118
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: were I took two guys. They were just out of

1119
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: high school, really had nowhere to live. There were dancers.

1120
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: I took him on the tour. I met him in Sacramento.

1121
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: I just moved to San Francisco. Just oh hip hop

1122
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: world and documental that I found and I used to

1123
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: play with him freestyle. You know, I should play bass.

1124
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: Was this thing called sixty seconds direct MC has come up.

1125
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: It was based playering the drummer and so I will

1126
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: meet all these mcs and and it was a couple

1127
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: of dancers live in my neighborhood. So I took him

1128
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: on the tour and Janet people said it was a

1129
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: it was conflicting with their show with these two dancers

1130
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: that we had no I think that Janet had like

1131
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: thirty five whatever if you look at Pleasure Principle or whatever,

1132
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: those those videos and she has the whole real nation. Yeah,

1133
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: so they told us we had to like get rid

1134
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: of the dances. What right her At the time, her

1135
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: husband was his name was Renee. He kind of walked

1136
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: in and said, you know, Janet thinks it's in conflict

1137
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: with her. And I was like, man, look, we got

1138
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: two dancers. If that's I'm leaving, I'm like, I'm like,

1139
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm not telling them kids. They got to go home.

1140
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: These two kids are like eighteen years old, twenty but

1141
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: no money, you know what I mean. We we only

1142
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: they only had two sets of two suits to tour with,

1143
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and we had no lights on the stage

1144
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: and nothing. I mean, you couldn't even see something that tour.

1145
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: I should tell people on the radio, if you want

1146
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: to see us, bring a flashlight. And then we never

1147
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: really met Jannet, and she invited us on the tour.

1148
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: So I remember I came. I came to the show

1149
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: once and my whole band in the row cruise in

1150
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: this big line and they by her room and they

1151
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: were all walking to her room. She was in the

1152
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: front door shaking their hand, and I just was walking

1153
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: by and I'm like, I'm not standing in the line

1154
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,919
Speaker 1: and shake her hand. Like when you go on tour,

1155
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: you supposed to like introduced to come say hi to

1156
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: the group and say hey, you invited this. So that

1157
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: was kind of that for me. And I think I

1158
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: was on the radio station and I said, you know,

1159
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: from Oakland something. They asked me, how was it, you know,

1160
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: being you know, meeting Jenn I was like at this point,

1161
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: it was We've been on tour a long time. I said,

1162
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: I've never met her, but I think, you know, she

1163
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: probably the same girl from Good Times Penny, you know. Yeah,

1164
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: so you know, I had jokes, but you know, we

1165
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: we love Janet and we mean, I love Jimmy and Terry,

1166
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: and it was, you know, we well it was to

1167
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: our support. We're only making like three thousand dollars a night,

1168
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: so we had to pay for our tour bus. And

1169
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: then like what happened was Michael started that Michael thing

1170
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: has started to happen. So some shows we will get

1171
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: to and it would be tours will be canceled. And

1172
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: instead of somebody calling us and saying the show is canceled,

1173
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 1: we will find out like the fans. So we still

1174
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: have to pay the crew the buses. And it happened

1175
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: like three or four times. I think she was kind

1176
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: of helping Michael move around, which we understand that, but

1177
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: we we didn't know, so she couldn't tell us right.

1178
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: So but I said, if it happens again, I'm going home.

1179
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: So I left in Philly the night he got canceled.

1180
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: In Philly. Yes, well that was my last night. I

1181
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: went to the I took I told the bus to

1182
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: take me to the airport, and then they hired many

1183
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: conditions a nice parallel move. Okay, I was gonna ask

1184
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: you they did a makeup show and you guys weren't

1185
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: the opener. And I was so disappointed and wanted to

1186
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: know what happened. What happened? So needless to say, you

1187
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: are the best person to tour with because you know

1188
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: what the worst is like. You know what the worst

1189
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: is like. Is I I treat people people toured us.

1190
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: I mean I treat people like kings. Because the first

1191
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: tour that Tony's ever did was really uh with the

1192
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: Rare Rocks. We opened up for Earth Wind and Fire

1193
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: when more Rese White was in the group, and they

1194
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: wanted a band that was more of like a track

1195
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: day band because since we had to set up, we

1196
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: couldn't do as many shows within and Fire. But when

1197
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: we did play with them more reach White brought us

1198
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: to the back of the room and said, Hey, I

1199
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: love you guys. Whenever you need you can have asked

1200
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: for it, you got it. However much time you need,

1201
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: you got it. And that's how we treated people when

1202
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: we Uh, I think Joe opened up for us and

1203
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 1: my and my tour manager was get off the stage.

1204
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: I've walked in and saw that. I walked right in

1205
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: the middle of them and said, Joe, take as much

1206
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 1: time as you want, will be in the dress room.

1207
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: When you're done, you come tell us and so yeah,

1208
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: so I mean we just told with Bobby Brown, Bobby

1209
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: Brown is just unplugged our instruments. Well, right, we when

1210
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: we I love Bobby to this day, I see we

1211
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: like this. But Bobby used to come and be just

1212
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: like and just at take the big socket and just

1213
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: unplug it. We up there just to ah damn. But

1214
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: now that was like how tour was. Tour was like

1215
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: R and b was kind of ghost back in the day. Okay,

1216
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: I will say for me, Sons a Soul like every

1217
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: person that every musician has, like that one the album

1218
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: that's like they're they're saving grace. There's in m sort

1219
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: of thing, and you know, the just during the time

1220
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 1: and which like we were searching for a deal. I

1221
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: mean we were traveling like the flint Stones inside of

1222
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: a beat up two hundred dollars station wagon with no

1223
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: floorboard in the back, like we have to elevate our

1224
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: feet in the air to not hit the ground, like

1225
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: traveling like the Middle Passage, and like you know, just

1226
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: that whole period of like will we get a deal?

1227
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 1: Will we not get a deal? And living in poverty

1228
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: and all, and like just listening to that record like man,

1229
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: one day I'm gonna play music like this and front

1230
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: audiences and like I don't know, like Sons of Soul

1231
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: wound up being that record from me. Yeah, that was

1232
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: the one for me too, yea. And I know that

1233
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: your your relationship with which he really solidified with that record,

1234
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: assuming that he assisted on drums on like Tony's a

1235
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,759
Speaker 1: long key and all that stuff. I mean the drums

1236
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: are definitely boombastic and loud like that just during that

1237
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: time period how are you guys uh connecting as a group, Like,

1238
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: how are decisions made? How are you know? Is it

1239
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 1: every man like gets an equal vote or that sort

1240
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: of thing, or is it like you're starting to see

1241
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: the the kind of uh seems starting to break. Well,

1242
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: I don't think. I think we were just I think

1243
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: we were like so happy to be on. I think

1244
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 1: my brother Dwayne is more of the person who was

1245
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: in search of a deal more than any of us.

1246
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: He was a couple of years older. Um, but once

1247
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: we got in, you know, Duwayne was this party time

1248
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: and I was more in a state of mind like

1249
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: we could fall off. This is not promised to us,

1250
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: and uh, I was just looking at things that our lives.

1251
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: I think I became pretty much the the person that

1252
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: was steering the boat. But I had a wall of

1253
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: people behind me that was very talented. I always felt

1254
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 1: like if you know, you're the best person in the

1255
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: room and you're in the wrong room, and um, I

1256
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: had a lot of great musicians around me that could,

1257
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: you know, do the things that I needed to do

1258
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: to make the records that I wanted to make. Now,

1259
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 1: did I know that people are gonna like those records? No?

1260
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: I didn't have a clue about record sales or number one.

1261
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 1: I never cared about Billboard. I never looked at bill

1262
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: Board for number one record. I was really trying to

1263
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: impress the people before me. I just really wanted you know,

1264
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, hip hop, hip hop artists. You know. I

1265
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: was really big on making hip hop people like my records,

1266
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: all the records like we don't like and we don't know.

1267
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you're gonna like this. R and B.

1268
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 1: I had a chip on my shoulder about that and

1269
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: was my joint on that record. It was just to

1270
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: break be fun. That was my one. Yeah, I was

1271
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: gonna say that. Yeah, Like I was definitely anti R

1272
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: and B and ninety two, Like I just thoughted was

1273
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: like warded down in corner understill why And I heard

1274
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: it and if you know, first I was like front

1275
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: like Tony, Tony got a record like whatever, And I

1276
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: heard and I was like, wait a minute, Like there's

1277
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: break beats and things that I like, like if a

1278
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: trap called Quest made music, this is what it would be.

1279
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: And yeah, and that's that's that's because Yeah, it's like

1280
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: it's like the beginning seeds of that's that's the thing

1281
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: I want to ask you were you were you are

1282
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: aware what the state of emergency was for the Black Band,

1283
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: because technically Tony Tony Tony is probably either the last

1284
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: pure soul group you know, And that's where you mentioned

1285
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: Chambers Brothers, because I was trying to find a band

1286
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: that was self contained, not led by someone not slying

1287
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 1: the family stone, not jeans around the famale. But okay,

1288
01:13:53,080 --> 01:14:00,759
Speaker 1: man out, Okay, So the last batch between main condition

1289
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 1: and and Tony Tony to like you guys are are

1290
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: the last it's it's it's endangered species. You were you

1291
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: guys even aware that there was like you guys were

1292
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: about to be a novelty. I mean ten years later,

1293
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 1: even the idea of groups being together would be like

1294
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 1: a thing like to to even collaborate with people in

1295
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: a unit. Were even aware of the time that time

1296
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 1: is running out for the Black Band? Um, I don't

1297
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: think we were aware of it. I think we we

1298
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: just we were so blinded by what happened before us,

1299
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 1: and um we were so stuck in the past and

1300
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: living in the future at the same time. Because we

1301
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: loved hip hop, we love what was going on, but

1302
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 1: we always thought we were a part of I always

1303
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: thought I could be a part of it. Like when

1304
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: I got to New York and I saw rock Him

1305
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: walking down the street where I was sitting in a

1306
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: limo or something and getting ready to do an in store,

1307
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: I see Eric being rock Him with a crew with

1308
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: dapper dance, sweat suit tune, and I was just sitting

1309
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 1: there like what. So as soon as I got to

1310
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: New York, man I was. I broke free to every

1311
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: studio and found everything I wanted to find. Um are as,

1312
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: you know, tribe and um by powers and different people,

1313
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:29,759
Speaker 1: different outboard gear for studios, different you know, needs and

1314
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: different were you saying, like was the rest of your

1315
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: band sort of on line with you? Like, yo, we

1316
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: need to we need to sound progressive like these people.

1317
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 1: Now it was just me. They'll they'll tell you that too.

1318
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: But everybody playing a good part, like tim was Timothy Riley.

1319
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,720
Speaker 1: Christian Riley is like like slide on the organ on

1320
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: the B three. He's a drummer, but he's a great

1321
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: Oregon player. So where he was at, he wanted to

1322
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 1: be there, you know, um where Dwyane was at, he

1323
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: Dwayne was like a guy who played football his whole

1324
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: life and was in shape, and then when football was over,

1325
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm not working out no more. So once

1326
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 1: we got on, Dwayne was like, we are you know

1327
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: that's it? And I was like, man, I don't know

1328
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: if we're really. I've seen too many groups when I

1329
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: go to record stores and I'm going through vinyl and

1330
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: all these groups that I've seen it we don't know about.

1331
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: We never heard of. I wasn't really they thought they

1332
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 1: were on too, so I was more. I was more

1333
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 1: like I knew it was. It was a novelty. But

1334
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 1: just because of the tours that we had to go on,

1335
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: there was no space. I remember Salt and Pepper wanted

1336
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: us to. We toured MC Hammer, Candy Man, I w

1337
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: A and I remember Salton Pepper was like, pickt the

1338
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 1: Tony's off the tour. They got a band to the

1339
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 1: set changes too long, you know what I mean. It

1340
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: wasn't like being nasty towards us, but the set change

1341
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 1: had to be. They didn't like the set change. The

1342
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: only person the only reason why we stayed on that

1343
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 1: to us because Hammer Hammer kept us on the turk.

1344
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:14,680
Speaker 1: Can I ask you all the questions since this is

1345
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 1: a rare moment, especially with you and Mirror and Raphael

1346
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: on the line because I'm translating, and I always thought

1347
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: in my mind, and now that you've clarified that you

1348
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: were such a hip hop head and you had to

1349
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: be you had to be there. This is the pivotal

1350
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 1: start of Mirror, right of what we would call I mean.

1351
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: So I just want to stay it out loud because

1352
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: the father of that, and I hate to term. I

1353
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:44,680
Speaker 1: hate to term Neil. So everybody give me to give

1354
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: me the everybody hate it, But what's the replace? But

1355
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,759
Speaker 1: it's like, it's the shortest way to describe you. Guys.

1356
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: Definitely started something new, Okay, So I'm gonna kill it.

1357
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 1: I've grown past it. I'm not like I used to

1358
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 1: be about the word. Let me tell you why I

1359
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: say it, why I was sending it back to And

1360
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: I did this album called very right. On the back

1361
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: I had a schoolstone it says Neo Soul rest in peace, right,

1362
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 1: So I was all about that. So my thing was Neil.

1363
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: Like like hip hop was a fresh, great brand, a

1364
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 1: great idea, Neil Soul was more of a budget that

1365
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: kid R. Massenberg kind of came up with for Erica

1366
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: Bad and everybody ever thought about it, and it was

1367
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 1: like the way to go to a marketing meeting and

1368
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: say this group was not the Temptations are the Slide

1369
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: and it's like new So it's neo. So when you

1370
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 1: go to a meeting, instead of explaining they're not gonna

1371
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: sell a million, they might do anywhere from two to three,

1372
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: you just say for short neo soul. It had nothing

1373
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: to do about the filling in the music like hip hop.

1374
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: But but you do know to the fans it actually

1375
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: so it might have started that way, but then it

1376
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 1: kind of matriculated to fans to something else, to just

1377
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 1: something that they could say, that's what it's can I ask, right,

1378
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: so what would you have? What would you have called it?

1379
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: Because it's your ship, so what would you were called?

1380
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean it was a moment. I mean someone didn't

1381
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: when I did, When I didn't answer advantage, I was,

1382
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, I was striking a different thing, a couple

1383
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:22,799
Speaker 1: of things that didn't really stick, but I was trying,

1384
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: and I came out with gospel delic for me, for

1385
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 1: my own gospel. Man, it's gospel delic is mean, there's

1386
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: some truth to it, and there's the funking the psychedelic

1387
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 1: in what I do so I called Mommy is a

1388
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: gospel delic. There's some truth, there's some funk psychedelic, that's

1389
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: what I called it. Anything but that, but we would

1390
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 1: have been called gospel. But honestly, look, look, I understand

1391
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 1: any group that was under it. I understand because it

1392
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: was a budget and everybody was getting on. It was

1393
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: a deal with money behind it, So there's nothing really

1394
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 1: wrong with it. It's just to me, it's a whack

1395
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: ass name. But it's a beautiful movie. Man, it's a

1396
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: wag name. I mean, it's great. Groups came out of it,

1397
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: but none of those artists. I feel like it gave

1398
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: it gave everybody a clock. But in hip hop, right,

1399
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 1: it's forever. No, it's not backpacker hip hop, that's forever.

1400
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, Like, the reason why I

1401
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: don't it's so weird, especially with neo soul, It's just

1402
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 1: that everyone in that category was helping on making sure

1403
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: that you knew they're not in that category. And then

1404
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 1: it just became funny to me because the thing is,

1405
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I thought I was the only

1406
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 1: everybody wants to people nobody under quote ar umbrella wants

1407
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: to claim it. I mean, yes, I think kidar uh,

1408
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: what do you call it? U copyrighting the word? Like?

1409
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:54,719
Speaker 1: And I told him this. I was like, you ended

1410
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: the genre when you made a public that you copy

1411
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: wrote the word, like who who's gonna like? You just

1412
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: ended your own movement. But the thing is is like

1413
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 1: as a guy who shops at Amiba or Raspputants or

1414
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 1: Jerry's records, you know, I want to know where's the

1415
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:16,640
Speaker 1: quickest what like fine, Like it's an identifier for me,

1416
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 1: so I know exactly what section to go to something

1417
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: by the record I want to and not have to

1418
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 1: scrounge through thousand records. But I mean I digress, like

1419
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,280
Speaker 1: I definitely feel as though you guys were a part

1420
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: of something. And you know this, it's not only for

1421
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: this genre. I remember when Luther and Anita was scoffing

1422
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: at Nelson George's description where he called it retro noeuvou.

1423
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: And you know, people, it's it's just hard to categorize

1424
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: something or given opinion on something until like twenty years

1425
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:52,760
Speaker 1: has passed. But you know, especially now that thirty years

1426
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 1: has passed since that movement, it's it's and I'm just

1427
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: lazy well, yeah, you know, I don't know kind of

1428
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:07,759
Speaker 1: like to say to like if you listen to so yeah, yeah.

1429
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: I mean when you look at music like I look

1430
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: at all music like this, if it's early country music

1431
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 1: like blues, early Muddy Waters, and you can go you

1432
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: can go back before people was making records to beat

1433
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: for Hot Sunny Hawks. Before you can go back to

1434
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: when it was making records in the field, in the country,

1435
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 1: all the way to now two. Black music is one

1436
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 1: music to me, if you have to categorize it to

1437
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: make money, to put in the categorize its categories to

1438
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 1: differentiate and make money, but really it's all one. It's

1439
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: all one music. It's it's because black people are so creative,

1440
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:50,680
Speaker 1: but it's all our music and basketball. We gotta crossover.

1441
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 1: We do all these different things so good. So that's

1442
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 1: when you listen to music like Trapp now Trapp is trapped,

1443
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: now you got Drill right, It's just it's just I

1444
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: feel like we're just it's all one thing. Like when

1445
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: hip hop came out, I always wanted to see hip

1446
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 1: hop get old. I always want to see the last

1447
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 1: like the tribe, the generation before that. I wanted to

1448
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: know how they were going to react as older men

1449
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: because I got a chance to see the Temptations and

1450
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the Shalamars and and the whispers get old, and how

1451
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 1: do they always want to see how the coolest cats

1452
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: in the world hip hop was the coolest. We don't

1453
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: like thorn. I want to see what they were gonna

1454
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: be like as older men. And it's so funny to

1455
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: watch when you see like hip hop casts like talking

1456
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: about trap artists. That would have been the way whispers

1457
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: what I've been talking about somebody rapping, Like what the

1458
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 1: hell are you talking about? I don't know, blah blah blah.

1459
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: Now you hear artists, hip hop artists saying that about

1460
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: trap artists, And it's just because now our generation is

1461
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 1: at PTA meetings. Let me just say this too. As

1462
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 1: a former black radio person, you should know that neo

1463
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: soul to a lot of people was rebellious music, and

1464
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 1: especially to black radio people, because this was music that

1465
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 1: we weren't necessary allowed to play. Literally, Raphael, I planned

1466
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 1: to tell you the story about how I got fired

1467
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: for interviewing you live on the radio, and I think

1468
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: that a lot of times. Yes, y'all don't know, huh.

1469
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 1: It was my pleasure. It was. It was my pleasure.

1470
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 1: But understand that like people fought people like myself, tim

1471
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 1: Me Bagon and like DJ's around the country that wasn't

1472
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 1: it was called trauma. We was fighting for this ship.

1473
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: When they when they said to me, yo, I'm a

1474
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,519
Speaker 1: real quick rock Field. They said to me rock Fails

1475
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 1: is doing our music conference and we want you to

1476
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: interview him and tape it and we're gonna play it

1477
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: back after we start playing his record. Right, But this

1478
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 1: was during the time when you put out the record

1479
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 1: that was kind of Stacks inspired, right, and I'm on

1480
01:24:54,080 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 1: the hip hop right, so I'm like, this is Philadelphi. Yeah,

1481
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: I mean you remember because I was drilling you about

1482
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,919
Speaker 1: Josh Stone and stuff. We had a good time. So

1483
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 1: so what's funny is when they said that they was

1484
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: gonna play this ship back, I was like, that's a lie,

1485
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: because you're not gonna never play no songs from this

1486
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: record because they don't fit our format. Right. So when

1487
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 1: you walked into the studio live, I was like, this

1488
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: is fucking Rafael Sad, the father of this fucking ship.

1489
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: That is the height. That's the reason that Philadelphia is

1490
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 1: doing what it's doing right now. How would I be

1491
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 1: like to sit here and lie and do a fake

1492
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 1: interview with this person. So we went up live and

1493
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 1: a week later they was like, you disobeyed what I did,

1494
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: which we told you to do. That was part of

1495
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: the story. So another funny story about that record when

1496
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 1: I went to this radio station in South Carolina and

1497
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:46,120
Speaker 1: so the radio guy at the time, he was the

1498
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 1: regional guy, was in Atlanta, so he took me in

1499
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: this radio station. So my whole radio promo was a

1500
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: fake out with Colombia. It was all fake, I believe it.

1501
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 1: But they had to take me because of the respect

1502
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,600
Speaker 1: for the records that I was producing. They didn't just

1503
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: want to let me go, so they took me on

1504
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: this fake radio run that I was doing interviews. But

1505
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: nobody was at the label cared about the records. So

1506
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 1: they did tell me. Some of the guys that Columbia

1507
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 1: told me just get his record away because streaming was

1508
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 1: about to happen, and they didn't. They were spending money

1509
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 1: on records and records weren't selling, so they were confused

1510
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 1: because like Bruce Springsteen wasn't selling, None of the records

1511
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: were selling because it was streaming, right, So I get

1512
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:30,559
Speaker 1: in the crop with this guy, and he says, he said, man,

1513
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 1: your record is actually where they spinning that what the

1514
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 1: numbers were like was was high on the record. So

1515
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: he said, he said, he said because he said, well,

1516
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,800
Speaker 1: they told me, he said between me Columbia told me

1517
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 1: just to take this record out and tell him it's

1518
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 1: it's experimental record and just play it real late at night.

1519
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:53,880
Speaker 1: So like, but the record kind of caught fire, like

1520
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 1: love that Girl, because people was like listening to it.

1521
01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,639
Speaker 1: And so what happened was Europe ended up calling France.

1522
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Actually France called parents called they they called uh Strainger

1523
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 1: over in Columbia. They said, I don't know about in

1524
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:11,679
Speaker 1: the States, but this is a real record over here.

1525
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: And so that's when I started playing in front of

1526
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 1: like fifteen thousand people by myself and Europe different venues.

1527
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,639
Speaker 1: But yeah, the whole record was like a fake out

1528
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 1: and end up being one of my Yeah, that's that's funny.

1529
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 1: I remember that. Wait, all right, things are coming back

1530
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: to me now that I know I'll never get to

1531
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: ask you again. I gotta go back to Sons and

1532
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:44,280
Speaker 1: Soul for this one question. All right, So you worked

1533
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 1: with a guy who I had hope for to be

1534
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 1: the future. And it's not who you think I'm talking about.

1535
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: You work with director Sangi and this is hot office

1536
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: passed me by success like black videos, we've never seen

1537
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 1: somebody with like Spike Jones is aesthetic for black videos.

1538
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:09,920
Speaker 1: But dog the Pillow video, how did Homie talk to

1539
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 1: you all into doing that video? Naked? But that wasn't

1540
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: sun That wasn't That wasn't sund and leaving. I thought

1541
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,839
Speaker 1: he did all three of your videos. Okay, he wouldn't

1542
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: have never done that. That was who did that? I

1543
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: don't know. And those the people that're standing up those

1544
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 1: are those are not us? That's not us. On the

1545
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: doubles that spinned around bloodass neck that was that wasn't

1546
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: Pillow forgot. I'm like, trust me, everybody was drinking. So

1547
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 1: my my brother, my brother's thing was this. This is

1548
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 1: all Dwayne he was. I'm not I'm not throwing him

1549
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 1: under the bus because he stands by it. He stands

1550
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 1: by trust me. My brother has no regrets about nothing

1551
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 1: he does. I love you. Try to do the video.

1552
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 1: Oh not in the in the part when the three

1553
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 1: dudes are standing together and they spin and then when

1554
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 1: you watch them they spend like really like it looked

1555
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 1: real bad TV showing the video and they clouded up

1556
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,600
Speaker 1: all the private areas. So that's how like it's like

1557
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:27,680
Speaker 1: my brother. So my brother walks in like we like

1558
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 1: the red hot chili peppers in his mind, so he's like,

1559
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: he like, this could be like a real like this

1560
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: could be like one of those what's the what's the cartoon?

1561
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 1: Um George Clinton the tour bus? This could be like

1562
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 1: the Tales of the tour Bus because like you know

1563
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 1: when they showed George Clinton, just jump out their kid, right.

1564
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 1: So it's like my brother walked in the room. And

1565
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: my brother walks in the room and goes, hey, guess what, guys,

1566
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 1: he could be the first band into a neked video.

1567
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 1: And I was like what So so this is what

1568
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 1: I said. I said, Well, if Tim Tim is a square,

1569
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:11,600
Speaker 1: was square this time it's nerd church boy, church of

1570
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:16,280
Speaker 1: God in Christ, I said Tim. I said that Tim agrees,

1571
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 1: I'll do it. It's no way in hell Tim is

1572
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 1: agreeing on this. Right. We walk in the room and

1573
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 1: said what do you think Tim? Tim goes, let's do it.

1574
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: Ship That's how that happened. Wow, man, man, Yeah, I

1575
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:41,640
Speaker 1: had another Sons of Soul question the interlude don't be bashfood,

1576
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: don't be Was that a real hold guy? Oh no, no,

1577
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,839
Speaker 1: we we we are. Engineer Jerry Brown took this record

1578
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:54,719
Speaker 1: out in the middle of Manhattan and gave this guy

1579
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: some money and he sang that he brought it back.

1580
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 1: I was like that ship at speaking when when you

1581
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: spoke of your engineer helping you develop, were you talking

1582
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: about Jerry Jerry Brown? Is he still setting up Christmas

1583
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: lights in the studio? Y'all gotta know, you know, Jerry

1584
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 1: Brown is the first cat, first black cat I've ever

1585
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 1: heard say. Yeah, man, you just gotta find your enerjoy.

1586
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: And for me, every day is Christmas and there's no

1587
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:36,200
Speaker 1: when we did what they do, it was Christmas and

1588
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 1: we did what they do and like we did it

1589
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 1: in May, and he had that he had your studio

1590
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 1: looking like Christmas. And then when he was working with

1591
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: Alicia Keys, same thing. I walked in and saw this

1592
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 1: Christmas decorations. I was like, oh, raphaels Deep must be

1593
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 1: here because it's Christmas time. And Jerry came out. What

1594
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 1: is what is the deal with Jerry? And as obsession

1595
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: with every day is Christmas to him? You know what.

1596
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: I never knew that's what he was doing until you

1597
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: just said it. But you're right, because because the one

1598
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: thing I do remember about Jerry is this. You know,

1599
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 1: he's still around. You know he he makes a lot

1600
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 1: of John legends. It's funny. He makes the John Leston

1601
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:25,919
Speaker 1: Christmas legend. Like YO, did Jerry? He's like, yes, he did. Yeah.

1602
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: So the funny thing about Jerry. What I remember about

1603
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:31,439
Speaker 1: Jerry the Moostes. He talks about when songs in the

1604
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 1: Kid of Life came out and he went and he

1605
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 1: stood in line and Tower records on the sinset this

1606
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 1: long line and he bought that record and he came

1607
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 1: home and Christmas Eve and he played that record, so

1608
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: he has to think about Christmas. You're right, that is crazy?

1609
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 1: Is that? I was asking? Is that the same? Is

1610
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 1: it Ali and Jerry? Is it the same? From Jerry?

1611
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,880
Speaker 1: Not him? Mixed the group called Climax. He Climax back

1612
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 1: in the day. Um used to be a stud ABC.

1613
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: He worked at ABC back in the day as an engineer.

1614
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 1: FRANTI that Jerry is Jerry Knight who Jerry Knight Jack

1615
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 1: and Jel radio singer? Okay, I was is that the

1616
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 1: is that the largest hit tony believe it or not,

1617
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: if I had no alluders, if I had alluded as

1618
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 1: the highest charting record. But the biggest record to me

1619
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: is probably it depends when you're talking, and that's me

1620
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 1: and you was not a that's my first solo record. Okay,

1621
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 1: it's okay only because at x tein wouldn't let me

1622
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 1: put my name on the record. So what really? Yeah?

1623
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that record was just done and my

1624
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 1: that's that's the record that was done in Sacramento in

1625
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: my mother's house, in the room on the teeth on

1626
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:57,599
Speaker 1: the teeth three, which I and I put it out.

1627
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 1: I gave it it John and the John Singleton they Polygraham,

1628
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say ed, but they said I couldn't use

1629
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 1: my arm, I couldn't use my name. So the second

1630
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 1: record I did was asked if you was on higher

1631
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 1: learning and they told me I couldn't use my name again,

1632
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: And I told John Singleton they couldn't use a song,

1633
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 1: and John called PolyGram and said, this record is gonna

1634
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 1: say rod fel sadik um. So the first my first

1635
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: solo record would have been just me and you. And

1636
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 1: the funny thing about it is Uh. That's when I

1637
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,479
Speaker 1: first figured out I had this pass called Jocko on

1638
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 1: the T three, I was like, I called my godfather

1639
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,280
Speaker 1: James Levi. I used to play for the drummer for

1640
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: with Herbie head Uh the head Hunters, and I called

1641
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:44,080
Speaker 1: him almost like who's that? Gave me a ride home

1642
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:45,840
Speaker 1: and it took his bass album played for me when

1643
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 1: I was like fifteen. He was like Joao Jaco Jacko

1644
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 1: played for me and my mom. He so, I'm in

1645
01:34:56,120 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 1: velvet here in Oakland, James Levi is my godfather. Paul

1646
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: Jackson all those the whispers used to come and watch

1647
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:04,559
Speaker 1: his plague and this band I was called tick Band.

1648
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:07,640
Speaker 1: And so I'm at the house one day and James go, hey, man,

1649
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: give him a ride home and talk to him and

1650
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 1: open up his heads. We got this four fifth y

1651
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 1: s L convertibly drive. He stopped buying phone booth, get

1652
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 1: on the phone and they take me about ten moles

1653
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: to my house. He pulls his base out, he gets

1654
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 1: on the ports. He plays for me and my mom

1655
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes and talk to me and my mom,

1656
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: which my mom don't know. My mom wouldn't know who

1657
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:29,599
Speaker 1: anybody is in R and b R nobody so Jazz,

1658
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:32,840
Speaker 1: you don't even know that. So when I and then

1659
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,040
Speaker 1: he leaves, and then I'm in my house making this record.

1660
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 1: When I made that record years later, and then once

1661
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 1: I make the record years later, I called, I said,

1662
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,639
Speaker 1: I've seen this, passee Jocko. Now I knew all about Jocko.

1663
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: I'm like I called James, I said, who was that

1664
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 1: to gave me a ride home? Without blinking? He goes,

1665
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 1: what do you think it was? With Jocko? Stories? Oh? God, man,

1666
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: you know how many other random stories do you have

1667
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:03,280
Speaker 1: like that? M Ladies and gentlemen. I know you hate

1668
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 1: when my voice comes on and tells you you gotta

1669
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:07,720
Speaker 1: come back next week. But you know good and well

1670
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 1: that we weren't going to give you the whole Angelotta

1671
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: this one episode. So make sure you come back next

1672
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:19,519
Speaker 1: week when Rathiolsa Dick talks to you know, Layah Sugar,

1673
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 1: Steve and Fon Tikolo and pay filled myself about his

1674
01:36:24,200 --> 01:36:30,879
Speaker 1: solo work, about touring, about songwriting, about movie scoring, about bacon,

1675
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 1: yes Bacon, and he drops a really awesome exclusive Jim,

1676
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:41,000
Speaker 1: So next week quest Love Supreme, I will see you

1677
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 1: guys there much Love Supreme is a production of I

1678
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: Heart Cupredio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

1679
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:01,240
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Poe Podcast, or wherever

1680
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.