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Speaker 1: I almost wish it had just been written like her

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Speaker 1: chaotic captions on Instagra.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I was thinking that a bit too.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Bennett and I'm Susie Beannacher and this is

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Speaker 2: in Retrospect, where each week we revisit a cultural moment

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Speaker 2: from the past that shaped us.

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Speaker 3: And that we just can't stop thinking about.

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Speaker 2: This week we have a special episode. The long awaited

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Speaker 2: memoir from Britney Spears has finally hit stands, and Susie

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Speaker 2: and I have stayed up all night reading it and

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Speaker 2: we're here to talk about it. It's Britney Bitch. Okay,

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Speaker 2: give me your first impressions. I know you were up

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Speaker 2: for a while last night reading delving into this memoir.

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Speaker 1: Well, my first impressions are a lot of the book

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Speaker 1: has been covered in the last week or so, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of the sort of big surprises have already

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Speaker 1: been revealed.

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Speaker 3: It was sort of interesting to read it.

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Speaker 1: For yourself, though, because I felt like in some ways

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Speaker 1: it answers some questions. Yeah, but there are still so

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Speaker 1: many questions unanswered, Like I have so many questions that

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Speaker 1: we can talk about as we go through some of

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Speaker 1: the topic.

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Speaker 3: Areas in a weird way. It feels a little thin.

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Speaker 1: I hate to say that, because getting to hear from

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Speaker 1: Brittany herself after so long, and after she felt like

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Speaker 1: her voice had been essentially extinguished for so.

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Speaker 3: Long, is you know, valuable. But in a weird way,

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Speaker 3: I feel like.

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Speaker 1: I've learned more about her from following her Instagram than

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Speaker 1: I did in this book, because in some ways it

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Speaker 1: feels very sanitized. It feels very much like it's been

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Speaker 1: polished for a mainstream audience. Yeah, and then they just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, dropped in some you know, sealacious revelations because

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Speaker 1: they knew that's what would sell the book, which isn't

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Speaker 1: entirely fair to Brittany because she has a ghostwriter. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot going on here that goes into a book,

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Speaker 1: right that you know isn't just from the author.

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Speaker 3: What were your first impressions?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we know so much about Britney Spears,

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Speaker 2: like for better or worse. I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: us who have followed her case and the conservatorship and

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Speaker 2: read the articles about it and were fans back in

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Speaker 2: the day, we just know a lot. And so to

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Speaker 2: read a book you're kind of expecting to get things

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Speaker 2: that you didn't already know, and in fact, she does,

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Speaker 2: I think, confirm a lot of things that were suspected.

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Speaker 2: But like you said, it feels thin and parts. It's

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Speaker 2: pretty vague in some of the areas where I really

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Speaker 2: wanted details, And I found myself, like a couple of

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Speaker 2: hours in just frantically googling who the ghostwriter was because

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Speaker 2: I wanted more information about that person.

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Speaker 3: What did you find? I'm actually curious.

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Speaker 2: He's a journalist. There's not much there. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know it would be fascinating to hear from him,

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Speaker 2: because there were just lines in it where I was like,

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Speaker 2: that just doesn't sound like her, and who I'm to

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Speaker 2: say what sounds like Britney spears? But as you said,

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Speaker 2: we know so much about how she is today from

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Speaker 2: her Instagram, or at least we think we know that.

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Speaker 2: We kind of have this idea in our minds of

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Speaker 2: what her voice sounds like, and it's not quite as

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Speaker 2: polished as I think the book is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting she chose a man as the ghostwriter.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I realized that because I think the

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Speaker 1: name is like Sam something, It's like a generic name

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Speaker 1: that could be either way, and I assumed.

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Speaker 3: It was a woman just because interesting.

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Speaker 1: So much of the book is about this tension in

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Speaker 1: her life of is she a child, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of the line from her song not a girl, not

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Speaker 1: yet a woman, This kind of tension of was she

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Speaker 1: allowed to grow up?

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Speaker 3: Did she grow up too fast? Has she not grown

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Speaker 3: up at all? So it feels like a woman might

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Speaker 3: have handled it better. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are definitely lines where you're like, Brittany

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Speaker 1: definitely didn't say this, and then there are lines where

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Speaker 1: it clearly is something that Brittany said, like that he's

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Speaker 1: trying to infuse her voice in it.

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Speaker 2: Well, did you notice that I swear to God. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of I swear to God. I swear to God, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: which I thought was cute.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there was like some repetitiveness that you felt

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Speaker 1: had to have come from her, right, because why would

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Speaker 1: he just be like repeating things if they weren't from

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Speaker 1: her perspective. I almost wish, I mean, this is one

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Speaker 1: of those wishes that would never come true, but I

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Speaker 1: almost wish it had just been written like her chaotic

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Speaker 1: captions on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I was thinking that a bit too. Well.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because one of the last big celebrity memoirs

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Speaker 2: that we read, I think, was Pamela Anderson's, and she

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Speaker 2: wrote that book herself, and it was really chaotic at times,

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Speaker 2: like there were these huge swaths of her poetry that

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Speaker 2: would just come in the middle of chapters. That was

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Speaker 2: a little strange, but it really felt like her and

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Speaker 2: I was sort of like, oh, I wish we were

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Speaker 2: getting some long rambling for any captions. Yeah, in the

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Speaker 2: middle of this, Like I.

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Speaker 1: Almost feel like they could have just woven that in

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Speaker 1: or something, because we do know that's her voice. We

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Speaker 1: know her voice now, you know. The one other thing

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Speaker 1: I want to say, because you mentioned like for those

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Speaker 1: of us who followed her, like we sort of know

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Speaker 1: so much about her, and that's true. I mean I

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Speaker 1: obviously followed Brittany. I was a huge fan. I am

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Speaker 1: a huge fan. I don't know if you know this

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Speaker 1: about me, but one of my greatest accomplishments of all

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Speaker 1: time is that Britney Spears follows me on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: That's actually amazing.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's like less meaningful now that none of us are

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. But I think the reason she follows me.

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Speaker 1: I never figured out when she started following me. I

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Speaker 1: just noticed one day she was and was like, this

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Speaker 1: is it. I can retire now. I think it's because

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Speaker 1: when she did her speech to the court about her conservatorship,

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Speaker 1: I had a tweet that went viral about how lucid

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Speaker 1: she sounded and how much you can just tell that

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Speaker 1: she actually was perfectly capable of managing herself. And I

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Speaker 1: have to assume that's why she started following me. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: what occurred to me when I was reading all this

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Speaker 1: last night is that it's easy to forget because she's

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Speaker 1: come to represent so many things beyond what she's accomplished,

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Speaker 1: just how insanely accomplished.

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Speaker 2: She she is. Yeah, I know, it's almost like she

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Speaker 2: was going through and then this album came out, and

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Speaker 2: then this album came out, like in these really short

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Speaker 2: time spans, it almost was if she could have spent

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Speaker 2: more time discussing it, Like it's just incredible her her production.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, she sold one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: million records worldwide. She's sold seventy million in the US alone,

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Speaker 1: She's got fifteen Guinness World Records. Like I didn't even

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Speaker 1: have all it's like, you know, she has Grammys, she

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Speaker 1: has MPTV work, She's done all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: She could have filled the whole book just.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, with just her accomplishments.

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Speaker 1: And she is a genius in this arena, like she

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Speaker 1: in many ways outside of Madonna, has come to be

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Speaker 1: synonymous with pop music.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things I feel a little sad

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Speaker 1: about in the book is how much of the book

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Speaker 1: is about all this other bullshit and how she doesn't

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Speaker 1: get to really be like, I am amazing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she you definitely see that in her you see her

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Speaker 1: grasping for that, but she's been made to feel small

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Speaker 1: for so long that it's almost she just mentions it

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Speaker 1: the way I mentioned graduating from college, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, She's like and then that Grammy and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: everything happened, and I'm like, dude, that's crazy.

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Speaker 3: Right right.

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Speaker 2: Some things that I didn't know beforehand that I think

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Speaker 2: the book really hit on. She really starts from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of a narrative arc of her life chronologically,

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Speaker 2: and she had a lot of trauma in her childhood,

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Speaker 2: like real, real trauma, like abuse and violence and alcoholism,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the death of a grandmother and starting

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Speaker 2: drinking when she was I think at age thirteen with

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Speaker 2: her mom and so much of the stuff that it's

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Speaker 2: easy to see how there would be lasting effects of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess we should have said at

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Speaker 1: the top of this spoiler alert because we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about something in the.

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Speaker 3: Books spoiler alert and spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I do want to mention in that regard,

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Speaker 1: I was really shocked by the story about her dad's mom.

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Speaker 1: Like the book starts with this anecdote where her father's

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Speaker 1: mother died by suicide and you know, in this very

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Speaker 1: dramatic way she had lost a child and she goes

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Speaker 1: and she I think she shoots herself on the grave,

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Speaker 1: and so it really does set the tone for like

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Speaker 1: how traumatic her entire childhood would be, really at the

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Speaker 1: hands of her father primarily, but also she has a

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Speaker 1: lot of resentment about her mother and the way that

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Speaker 1: her mother created an environment that was like very chaotic

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Speaker 1: and there was a lot of screaming, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: the first bit of the book is really about how

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Speaker 1: she escaped into herself, into her music, that that's how

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Speaker 1: she sort of found some freedom, and then pretty early on.

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Speaker 3: She starts performing.

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Speaker 2: Right very early on. The Other thing that was noteworthy

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Speaker 2: is that the mother who commits suicide was Gene, which

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Speaker 2: is her middle nameleness. She was named after her. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that really does set the tone at the very beginning

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Speaker 2: of the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are like two sort of central tensions in

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Speaker 1: the book. One is I mean, obviously, the book is

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Speaker 1: titled The Woman in Me, so this idea of being

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Speaker 1: a woman is very central to the book. But the

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Speaker 1: way it's presented is sort of this tension between not

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Speaker 1: a girl, not yet a woman?

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Speaker 3: Is she a child? She talks a.

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Speaker 1: Lot about regressing, like she talks about Benjamin Button a lot,

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Speaker 1: and how when things are hard or difficult for her

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Speaker 1: she quotes ages backwards. She has this real sense that

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Speaker 1: when she is vulnerable, she starts to feel like a child,

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Speaker 1: and that just as she is becoming a woman, just

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Speaker 1: as she is finally getting to the point where she

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Speaker 1: might have been able to take ownership of her own life,

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Speaker 1: this incident occurs this period of time after her children,

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Speaker 1: and then her father puts her in this conservatorship and

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Speaker 1: then she is essentially infantilized for thirteen years. So then

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Speaker 1: she is just literally not allowed to become a woman.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, she has had

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Speaker 1: the adult responsibility of supporting her entire family since she

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Speaker 1: was fifteen, right, So it is like this sort of

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Speaker 1: thing that she keeps returning to, like was I a child?

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Speaker 1: Was I a ghost child? At one point she says,

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Speaker 1: or I felt like a ghost child? Am I a woman?

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Speaker 1: What does it mean to be a woman? It's like

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Speaker 1: a very central theme of the book. Did that feel

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Speaker 1: like it landed for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I think that's something that we've talked

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Speaker 2: about prior to reading any of this, and just our

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Speaker 2: observations is that there is this sort of sense of

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Speaker 2: like she didn't get to fully grow up, and there's

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Speaker 2: some ways about her that feel really frozen in time,

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Speaker 2: like she is still living in the early two thousands,

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Speaker 2: and she does still feel much younger than she is,

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Speaker 2: but like you said, in so many ways, she was

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Speaker 2: adultified when she was so young. Like she talks about

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Speaker 2: various interviews in the media, and who is the interview

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Speaker 2: with the old guy Ed something?

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Speaker 3: Oh you mean the story with Ed McMahon.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, McMahon, Okay, yes, so Ed McMahon on Star Search.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly how old she is, but she's

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Speaker 2: very young. She's not yet a teenager. And she goes

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Speaker 2: on and they have this banter and he's asking her

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Speaker 2: if she has a boyfriend. First of all, it's too

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Speaker 2: young for her to be having a boyfriend, but then

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Speaker 2: he's like, what about me? Yes, And this is like

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Speaker 2: a I don't know how old he was. I remember

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Speaker 2: him having gray hair, but just little things like that

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Speaker 2: that she touches on. It various points where it's like

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Speaker 2: she's being treated like an adult but at the same

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Speaker 2: time totally infantilized as she actually grows older.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like funny because I mean, honestly, I used

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Speaker 1: to watch Star Starge. I guess we're going back to

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Speaker 1: the narrative of how much TV I want, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think he was trying to be like charming. It's

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Speaker 1: like a banter like do you have any boyfriends? And

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Speaker 1: she's like boys are gross or boys are mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: She's like, I'm not mean, you know, and he thinks

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Speaker 1: it's sweet. But another tension in this book, which is

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Speaker 1: I think the second central attention, is this idea that

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Speaker 1: she craves attention. She wants to perform she wants to

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Speaker 1: be on stage, she wants attention, but also when it happens,

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Speaker 1: it terrifies her, Like she literally goes backstage after that

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Speaker 1: moment with Ed McMahon and she weeps, and she constantly

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Speaker 1: talks about wanting the spotlight but then needing to get

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Speaker 1: away from it. And then it gets worse. The spotlight

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Speaker 1: keeps getting harsher and harsher, like as time goes on,

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Speaker 1: it's like the attention gets crueler, it gets more aggressive,

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Speaker 1: it becomes physically violent with the paparazzi, and so she

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Speaker 1: is constantly dipping her toe out and then running away,

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Speaker 1: dipping her toe out and running away. And now she

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Speaker 1: is again in this situation where she has to kind

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Speaker 1: of decide like how much is she going to return

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Speaker 1: to public life, right Like she sort of said after

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Speaker 1: the conservatorship that she wasn't going to do that, She's

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Speaker 1: just going to like chill for a bit, But this

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Speaker 1: book is a return to public life, right, So there

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Speaker 1: is this feeling that you get that she can't quite

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Speaker 1: decide what she wants her relationship to be to attention.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it was interesting too, I didn't know that

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Speaker 2: she had social anxiety and So she talks about that

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Speaker 2: in the book and she names it as such, and

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Speaker 2: she describes how, you know, yeah, of course she could

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Speaker 2: go on stage and she could perform for thousands of

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Speaker 2: people and do it well, but then in small groups

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Speaker 2: she would have a lot of anxiety and get really

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Speaker 2: self conscious and be really embarrassed about what she would say.

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Speaker 2: And that too, is sort of an interesting tension. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of these tensions and sort of juxtapositions

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Speaker 2: in the way that she is or has come to be,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like that was another one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that's interesting is she mentions that when

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Speaker 1: she became a judge on Fear Factor many years later, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she hated it, like she hated the.

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Speaker 3: Pressure of it. She didn't like judging other people.

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Speaker 2: She which was so surprising. So because do you think

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Speaker 2: of her as such an amazing performer.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: Another way in which this comes out is the way

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Speaker 1: she describes as Diane Sawyer interview as so horrible for her. Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's back up for a second, yeah and explain what

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Speaker 1: that is. So there's the whole Justin section. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into Justin and all of that. But after her breakup

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Speaker 1: with justin Timberlake. Her father essentially forces her, her father

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Speaker 1: and her team force her to do this interview with

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Speaker 1: Diane Sawyer, who you know was his former boss, my

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Speaker 1: former boss, and who was literally one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous women in the world, another one of these sort

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Speaker 1: of like big name interviewers. And she describes this interview

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Speaker 1: as really a breaking point for her. She had a

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Speaker 1: horrible time. She felt like it was so harsh. And

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Speaker 1: what's so interesting is when you watch it, because of

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Speaker 1: course I rewatched the whole thing over the weekend, is

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Speaker 1: she's actually handling herself with enormous poison.

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Speaker 2: Yes, like she is.

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Speaker 1: Actually totally on it. She seems incredibly smart. She comes

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Speaker 1: across as in control of the situation she's in, and

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Speaker 1: yet what she is feeling is all this anxiety, all

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Speaker 1: this pressure. And so it's interesting that she does have

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Speaker 1: this ability to mask, right, which I think is very

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Speaker 1: common of people who come from traumatic childhoods, Right, that

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Speaker 1: like you kind of have to have a public persona

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Speaker 1: because otherwise everyone knows all the crazy things in your house.

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Speaker 1: So you just like put on this mask and you

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Speaker 1: go out there and you pretend like everything's fine, and

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Speaker 1: then the minute you're alone again, you can kind of

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Speaker 1: fall apart. And that's kind of what she describes that inners.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I mean, I imagine that's such a big

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Speaker 2: part of being a performer too. You have to put

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Speaker 2: on a brave face and you have to look good

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Speaker 2: while doing it, and so you go out there and

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Speaker 2: you do it, and whatever is festering underneath the surface

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Speaker 2: stays there until you get backstage, and she does at

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Speaker 2: many different points throughout the book describe weeping backstage. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Actually, did you see that Katie Perry clip that went viral? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it actually went viral recently, but it's

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Speaker 1: from an old documentary about her where Russell Brand breaks

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Speaker 1: up with or like he's telling her he's divorcing her,

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Speaker 1: either over text or he calls her. It's like it's horrible,

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Speaker 1: and she's literally about to go on stage and she's weeping,

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Speaker 1: and then she like shakes herself off and she literally

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Speaker 1: like gets on one of those lifts that's gonna pull

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Speaker 1: her up on stage and the next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: she's just like snapped into it and she's like performing.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of what I kept picturing when Brittany

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Speaker 1: was describing that. So the interesting thing about the Dane

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Speaker 1: Swear interview is like, honestly, I did not I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you've watched it recently, I don't think

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Speaker 1: the questions are so cruel, Like there are definitely some

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Speaker 1: questions you just wouldn't ask now, you would just acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that she was, like I think she was twenty or

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Speaker 1: twenty one at the time, So there are just some

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Speaker 1: questions like an adult woman wouldn't ask what is essentially

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Speaker 1: still like a child about her love life or her virginity,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, crazy. So there are definitely some

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Speaker 1: things that feel dated. But she is trying to be empathic.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just know when Diane is being harsh

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Speaker 1: and when she is trying to connect to me. It

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Speaker 1: was very clear that she was trying to connect. So

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Speaker 1: it's also interesting what a divide there is from what

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Speaker 1: I think Diane was trying to do and how Brittany

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Speaker 1: received it. And I think a lot of that has

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Speaker 1: to do with the fact that she sort of says

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Speaker 1: I was so raw, I was so vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: I had just gone through this breakup with Justin and.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to have it mined and she there's

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Speaker 1: a part where she cries and you can see she's

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Speaker 1: so upset that she's crying. She literally says ooh oh, like.

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Speaker 2: Oh I remember watching this, Yeah, yes.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, hello ew strong leaning oh And in

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Speaker 1: that moment you see that she's like, doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be mined in this way, and she's trying to protect herself.

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Speaker 1: But that just by virtue of being here, that's impossible.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's also something that's changed in culture,

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Speaker 1: Like now you would just release something on Instagram, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't need to do that. Diane Sawyer interview.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the other thing that is so horrowing to

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Speaker 2: read about is just how much control her father had

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Speaker 2: over her life. I Mean, obviously we knew that that's

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Speaker 2: what the whole conservatorship was about, but even with this interview,

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Speaker 2: which was before the conservatorship, he shows up with the

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Speaker 2: whole team and basically demands that she's gonna go on

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Speaker 2: the show. She has no prep time. You know, she

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to do it, but he says what.

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Speaker 1: Well, and she's also she says a lot about how

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Speaker 1: she's a people pleaser, so she also has a hard

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Speaker 1: time saying no, even when she doesn't want to do something.

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Speaker 1: A different sort of star might have said, like no,

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Speaker 1: get out of my apartment, I'm not doing it, but

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Speaker 1: that she sort of does have this. I think she

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Speaker 1: kind of describes this all like a Southern desire to

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Speaker 1: be a good girl to please. Not to say too much,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's probably worth actually backing up and

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Speaker 1: explaining why she's doing this interview, because it's essentially because

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Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake has broken her heart and is waging a

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Speaker 1: sort of publicity battle against her. So let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the Justin parts of the book, because they are a.

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Speaker 2: Lot so most of us know that Justin Timberlake and

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Speaker 2: Britney Spears dated. They had met yours earlier on the

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Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse Club, and then they began seeing each other

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Speaker 2: and at a certain point they were living together while

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Speaker 2: I believe, on their respective tours, And she talks in

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Speaker 2: the book about how he cheats on her multiple times,

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Speaker 2: and she pretty much knows this at the time but

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Speaker 2: doesn't say anything. She then cheats on him anyhow. It's

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Speaker 2: you know, it's volatile in some ways, but she still

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Speaker 2: very much loves him, and then ultimately he breaks up

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Speaker 2: with her. In a text message while she is filming

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Speaker 2: one of her videos. So I imagine that was another one

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Speaker 2: of those moments where she's having to put on a

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Speaker 2: face and go out and perform while inside she's just reeling.

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Speaker 2: And so what happens next is she's completely broken, and I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I remember that feeling of being that age

404
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Speaker 2: and being in love and having your heartbroken. And she

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Speaker 2: just is devastated. So she goes back to her hometown.

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Speaker 2: She's like sort of comatose. She's in Louisiana. He at

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Speaker 2: one point comes to visit her, I believe. But then

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Speaker 2: what happens is he goes on his solo tour. He

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Speaker 2: puts out the song crimea River, which has the video

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Speaker 2: that I remember and I'm sure you do too from

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Speaker 2: that time where there is an actress who looks like

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Speaker 2: her in the video, who like her, just like her,

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Speaker 2: and is cheating on him in the video, and so

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Speaker 2: suddenly it was like, oh, poor Justin Britney cheated on him.

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Speaker 2: Britney's such a villain, and essentially he pushed that nerrative

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Speaker 2: forward and she became the villain in this breakup.

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Speaker 1: So I think what's so interesting is a lot of

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Speaker 1: this was known right like before the book, we knew

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Speaker 1: that they had had this relationship and that he had

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Speaker 1: framed it as her having cheated on him, and you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, when there was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a reckoning around her, he did put out this apology.

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Speaker 1: But the one thing in the book that we did

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Speaker 1: not know is that she had had an abortion and

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Speaker 1: that you know, just had really pushed her into that abortion,

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Speaker 1: and in fairness to him, he sort of said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not ready to be a father, and you know, she

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Speaker 1: didn't want to have a kid with someone who didn't want.

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Speaker 3: To be a father.

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Speaker 1: But she describes it as one of the most agonizing

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Speaker 1: things she ever had to experience. And there's this really

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Speaker 1: sad scene where they decide, because they don't want it

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Speaker 1: to leak, that she has to do a self administered abortion.

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Speaker 1: She takes pills so she's not under a doctor's care,

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Speaker 1: and she says it's just like excruciating, and she's just

436
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: lying on the floor in the bathroom.

437
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: And then this detail.

438
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: I just astriving past.

439
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for knowing exactly what

440
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, because I was like, literally, this is

441
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: my worst nightmare. She says at one point, Demerlake thought

442
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: music would help, so he went and got his guitar

443
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: and he laid there with me strumming it.

444
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: See I I don't know. I was like, they must

445
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: have been so they were so young. She's in so

446
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: much pain, she's lying on the floor. He must have

447
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 2: just been desperate to try to comfort her in some way.

448
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: That was my interpretation, such a sweet interpretation, because my

449
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: interpretation was when I was in my twenties and a

450
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: guy pulled out a guitar.

451
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 3: To stroke It was always horrible.

452
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: So the idea that while I'm like lying on the

453
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: floor bleeding.

454
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: He's like, hey, baby, I have a song for you.

455
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: Just the image in my mind is the I mean,

456
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: what you're describing actually is probably more accurate and probably

457
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: more sweet, But I just picture this douchebag with his guitar,

458
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: and like, it's hard, it's hard not to picture him

459
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: as a douchebag. Because there's this whole other scene she

460
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: describes of him when they're like walking around in New

461
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: York and they run into genuine.

462
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 2: Oh God that I screened. That's actually the one thing

463
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: in the whole book that I screenshot in because it

464
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: was so Crench.

465
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: It's like homie, yeah, yes, yeah, and she's just like

466
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: mortified for him. So he does seem so dochey in

467
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: this whole thing, Like he does not come off well

468
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, in fairness, he's pretty young too.

469
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: But really, where I think he is the villain is

470
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: the crime of the River thing, which you've talked about.

471
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: It's like he really leans into this idea that she

472
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: has betrayed him. He uses it to promote the album. Yeah,

473
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: in large part it's why it sells so much. He

474
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: goes on a radio tour, he talks about her sex life.

475
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: He reveals that she's not a virgin, which, for whatever reason,

476
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: her virginity had become her team has sort of pushed

477
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: this idea of her being a virgin, which she wasn't

478
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: even when she met justin Timberlake. That's another revelation in

479
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: the book. He essentially uses her. She says he's the

480
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: first love of her life, he's her first kiss, and

481
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: then he completely betrays her, setting the tone for.

482
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: Like all the betrayals that are yet to come.

483
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that too, I think is another theme of

484
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 2: the book is all these betrayals by men, largely Yeah.

485
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: So significant romantic relationship she has is with Kevin Fetterline,

486
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: the father of her children. And the thing that really

487
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: stuck out to me and that I just felt for

488
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: her so much in her descriptions of that relationship is

489
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 2: when I believe they have one of the kids and

490
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: she may be pregnant with another, and he is on

491
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: tour because Kevin Fetterline is now kafed and he's like

492
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: trying to, you know, establish his rap career and is

493
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: getting some small success and is really feeling himself, and

494
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: he goes on tour and won't speak to her. So

495
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: she flies to New York to talk to her husband

496
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: and the security guards turn her away. He literally will

497
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: not see his wife who's pregnant with their child. And

498
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: then she flies to Vegas to try to talk to

499
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: him there, and the same thing happens. And I was

500
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: just thinking to myself, can you imagine you're trying to

501
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: talk to your partner, the father of your children, and

502
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: he just won't even speak to you.

503
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: Well, And also, by the way, a man you are

504
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: supporting completely like she's paying all his bills. This music career,

505
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: in quotes right, is entirely funded by her, and yet

506
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: he's suddenly treating her like garbage.

507
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: And I will say she.

508
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: Did get a shot off on this, Like at one

509
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: point when she was talking about him being a rapper,

510
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: she was like, bless his heart.

511
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved that part.

512
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 4: I love it.

513
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: I love that was like the one part where it

514
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: was like she was clearly doing a sarcasm line. Whether

515
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: that was her or the ghost writer, it worked, Yeah,

516
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: it really worked.

517
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

518
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: And he just is such a scumbag, like he comes

519
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: off so poorly. And actually she doesn't go in on

520
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: him as much as I expected, and I think in

521
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: large part that has to do with the fact that

522
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: they are always in this ongoing custody issue with their kids,

523
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: even though now the kids are older. But you know,

524
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: my takeaway from that is that Kevin essentially used those

525
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: kids as a weapon. And you know, from what we

526
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: know now, he essentially has never worked since he has

527
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: used those kids to support him in his entire family.

528
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: He has another family, you know, like a kids and

529
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: a wife, and he has never worked since then and

530
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: has just completely lived off of her. And he used

531
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: those kids like a cudgel to make sure that he

532
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: could have access to her money. And that is so

533
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: depressing too, because the passages are so touching, how much

534
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: she wanted to be a mom, how much those children

535
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: meant to her, how much she just like loved to

536
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: be around them. And then you know they're so young

537
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: when they get taken away from her, they're like five

538
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: months and seventeen months, I think, And that's what leads

539
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: to the very famous head shaving incident, which she does

540
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: address in the book.

541
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the parts where I felt

542
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: like she did give a little bit more description and

543
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: context than had been out there, and so I really

544
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: appreciated reading about that. But she was grieving, like she

545
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: was grieving the loss of her children, and she was

546
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: out of her mind, yeah, in pain and sadness, in panic,

547
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: in fear that she would have them taken away permanently.

548
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: And so now you can really understand somebody in that state,

549
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: like she is absolutely out of her mind with grief

550
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: about losing her children.

551
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: And also her aunt, one of her closest relatives, has

552
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: just died of cancer. She has postpartum like it's this

553
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: perfect storm. Everything is falling apart around her, and now

554
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: she's being told she can't see her children and it's

555
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: in the midst of that that she goes to try

556
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: and see them, and she's turned away, and that's sort

557
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: of what leads up to the moment where she goes

558
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: into the hair salon and takes the shaver and shaves

559
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: her head.

560
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, of course, you know, became the cover of

561
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: every tabloid in the world, and we've all seen pictures

562
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: of It's like, you don't even need to describe it

563
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 2: because we all know it. Yeah, But she describes a

564
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: bit about what that was and how in some ways

565
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: that was just a fuck you to everyone who had

566
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: tried to infantilize her, who'd tried to adultify her, who'd

567
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: tried to sexualize her, who tried to make her pretty,

568
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: who tried to make her into a good girl, who

569
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: had to make her into someone who followed the rules,

570
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: Like that was the ultimate thing that she could do

571
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: to be like, screw you, I am going to now

572
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: be ugly.

573
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: In fact, I think I have a quote from the

574
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: book which is I'd been eyeballed so much growing up.

575
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: I'd been looked up and down and had people telling

576
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: me what they thought of my body since I was

577
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: a teenager. Shaving my head and acting out were my

578
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: ways of pushing back, and she says later on, I'd

579
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: been the good girl for years. I'd smiled politely while

580
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: TV show hosts leered at my breasts, while American parents

581
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: said I was destroying their children by wearing a crop top,

582
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: while executives patted my hand condescendingly and second guessed my

583
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: career choices, even though I'd sold millions of records while

584
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: my family acted like I was evil and.

585
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: I was tired of it.

586
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: It does feel like this moment of rebellion, there's almost

587
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of Catharsis in it, and then of

588
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: course it's immediately turned against her.

589
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: Well.

590
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: And the other thing that I found, I don't know,

591
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: just sort of harrowing, is that she talks about how

592
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: her mom couldn't even look at her with her shaved

593
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: heaps yes on, her long beautiful hair was gone, which

594
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: was so much a part of her identity, and which

595
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: is so much a part of I think pop star

596
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: identity in general. Her mother actually couldn't look at her,

597
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: and that was so sad to me. So it's like,

598
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: at the same time you're reading this and you're thinking, like, oh,

599
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: it's so great to hear it in her words. I'm

600
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: hearing you read that quote, and I'm like, this doesn't

601
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: sound like her, you know, like it's a little heavy handed.

602
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: It's like parroting the talking points of like this empowerment,

603
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: reclaiming of your identity moment back to the reader. So

604
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's hard. It's like I'm a little

605
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: bit torn on how to interpret some of this stuff

606
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: because while I think it's so important to hear from

607
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: her perspective, I think that there are parts that feel

608
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 2: pretty heavy handed.

609
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: I will say the thing about this section that really

610
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: stayed with me. This is the time where you really

611
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: begin to understand how terrifying the paparazzi was to her.

612
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: If there's one thing in the book that becomes very clear,

613
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: it's really how afraid of them she was, how aggressive

614
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: they were with her, how much of her life was

615
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: controlled by their presence, and how much she had to

616
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: evade them or try and get away from them. She

617
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to stay places for very long because

618
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: the longer she stayed more would arrive. And I thought

619
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: that was interesting because it's kind of changed so much,

620
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: like now there are more safeguards in place, especially with children.

621
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: But she was before any of that occurred.

622
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: So people were saying, why won't you let us have

623
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: access to photograph your children? And she and Kevin were

624
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: having to figure out how to put blankets over their

625
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: heads so they could still breathe while carrying them out

626
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: of the house because they didn't want them photographed, which

627
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: actually it seems like a very sane decision, but that's

628
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: crazy when you're doing it right exactly. And back then

629
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: the thinking was, well, why is she hiding her kids?

630
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: She just genuinely does not know how to get away

631
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: from it. And for all that her father is trying

632
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: to control her, he's not doing anything to protect.

633
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: Her right, right, right right. For all these supposed safeguards

634
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: in place, there are none, as it pertains to this,

635
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: and then.

636
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 1: That obviously leads to the head shaving, leads to her

637
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: being institutional. Institution was very briefly, you just put on

638
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: like a weekend hold, and then sent on early and

639
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: then again, and then that leads to the infamous conservatorship,

640
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: which you know, it's been talked about a lot. I

641
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: don't know that we have to get into all the details,

642
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: but I do think the thing that was most interesting

643
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: to me about this is I really have so many

644
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: questions about how she got out of it.

645
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: Like I don't I know, Well, that was one of

646
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: the parts where, you know, my editor brain was like,

647
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: h details, details, details, Where are the details? Like how

648
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: did you literally change lawyers? How did you argue this?

649
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: What exactly was the argument made when you made that

650
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: nine to one one call to report your father for

651
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: conservatorship abuse? What was the response on the other line?

652
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: What then happened? Did the police come to your house?

653
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: Like anyway, I have I have so.

654
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: Many questions, any questions about this section, and I.

655
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: Have to wonder if some of the sanitizing it's for

656
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: legal reasons, but even you know, it's like I wanted names.

657
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: Like there's a whole section where she describes again being

658
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: institutionalized against her will, this time much later, toward the

659
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: end of the conservatorship, for a number of months. And

660
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: this is the point at which the fans, the Free

661
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: Britney fans, start to notice that she has gone away

662
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: and they start to get suspicious, and this is when

663
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: they start kind of galvanizing to push the questions forward

664
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: about what is really happening with its conservatorship. But I'm like,

665
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: what is this institution. What is the name of the institution?

666
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: How do they she couldn't check herself out? I guess

667
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: not because the dad is a conservator, But like, what

668
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: was really going on there? And was this a facility

669
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: for mental health? Was it a facility for drug abuse?

670
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: Like what she calls it a rehab, which is weird

671
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: because they're not actually accusing her of taking drugs. She

672
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: says she was taking natural supplements and that's what caused

673
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: them to send her. But I feel like, also the

674
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: thing that was really confusing about this section for me,

675
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: is it up until this you really have a clear

676
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: sense of how controlled her life is.

677
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: Like at one point, she.

678
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: Describes her father bugging her house so that he can

679
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: overhear her conversations. Right, he decides what she eats, he

680
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: decides when she sleeps, he decides every It's like the

681
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: most infantilizing thing.

682
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: She can't have caffeine, She's not allowed to have a

683
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: sip of alcohol. If she wants to have a boyfriend,

684
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: they have to submit to a blood blood test.

685
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: Right, So you get the sense that she's under this

686
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: enormous control, but then all of a sudden she's able

687
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: to escape from it.

688
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: And we don't actually hear how that happens.

689
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: Like suddenly she's just like and then I'm meeting with lawyers,

690
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: and then I'm calling the police, and you're like, but

691
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: how how are you meeting with lawyers?

692
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: You're in this like prison.

693
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: Essentially, it feels like a missing like a big missing piece,

694
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: and I really just Britney, please, I.

695
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: Know the details. And I mean the whole scene in

696
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: the when she's institutionalized toward the end of the Conservatorship,

697
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: it really, I mean it sounds like Girl Interrupted the

698
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: modern version, Like she describes a woman who hears voices,

699
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 2: and there's all these kind of people who are really

700
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 2: really unwell, and then they're force speeding her lithium, which

701
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: makes her totally lethargic and confused about time and unable

702
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: to speak clearly, like all of these things that sound

703
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: like some Sylvia Plath nineteen fifties shit.

704
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: Yes, And then the next thing that happens, it's like

705
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: so quick that section, it's almost like we speed through

706
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: the section of how she suddenly breaks free from these

707
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: chains that like seem really hard to break free from it.

708
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: But then suddenly we're in the section where she is

709
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: giving her statement to the judge in the you know,

710
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: famous sort of statement she gives that helps free her

711
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: from the conservatorship.

712
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: Right. I was like, how did she get there? Like,

713
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: how did they to get that? Yeah? And then she

714
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 2: had to ask for it to be open to the public,

715
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: Like how did that work? Anyhow? Yes, we have.

716
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: Questions, yes, and so the testimony, though, is really compelling.

717
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: I highly recommend going to listen to it. You can

718
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: find it on YouTube. We can play a little bit

719
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: of it for you, just so you can hear her voice.

720
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 4: I also would like to be able to share my

721
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 4: story with the world and what they did to me

722
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 4: instead of it being a hash has secret to benefit

723
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 4: all of them. I want to be able to be

724
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 4: heard on what they did to me. By making me

725
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 4: keep this in for so long is not good for

726
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: my heart.

727
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: I mean I remember hearing that when she testified and

728
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: thinking it was so powerful, and then reading about it

729
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: in the book. I mean again, it's like, how did

730
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 2: she write it? What was the thinking did she rehear?

731
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just she did so.

732
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: Many questions that she did a lot of drafts of it,

733
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: but but you don't really get a sense of like

734
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: where I mean really, I will say. The thing about

735
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: the statement that I love is that it is very

736
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: much in Brittany's voice. It is obvious she has written

737
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: it for herself. You know a lot of times that's

738
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: something like this, The lawyers would have just written it

739
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: and she would have read it this few like it

740
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: is Brittany start to finish. It is in her own words.

741
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a little circular, sometimes it's a low chaotic,

742
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: but it's super strong. You get the sense that she's

743
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: completely capable of managing her own life. In fact, it's

744
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: just sort of shocking, and she brings.

745
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: Us up a lot in the book.

746
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: But I feel like the need to repeat it, which

747
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: is it is crazy that she is literally doing world tours,

748
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: she is supporting everyone in her family, plus like a

749
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: cottage industry of other people, and she is literally being

750
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: described as incapacitated, unable to make a single decision for herself,

751
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: Like she is clearly more than capable of running her

752
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: own life.

753
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 3: Like is she quirky? Is she weird?

754
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: Is she sometimes dealing with mental health issues? Sure, but

755
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: no more so than a million other celebrities who go

756
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: through these things and then just come out the other

757
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: side and don't have their family essentially steal their entire

758
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: adulthoods so that they can just turn them into like

759
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: a cash machine, which is very clearly what happened here.

760
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: So she says, you know, in the book, after the conservatorship,

761
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: she says, I'd been taught through the conservatorship to feel

762
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 1: almost too fragile, too scared. That's the price I paid

763
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: under the conservatorship. They took a lot of my womanhood,

764
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: my sword, my core, my voice, the ability to say

765
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: fuck you. And I know that sounds bad, but there's

766
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: something crucial about this. Don't underestimate your power.

767
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: And while this sounds nice, I.

768
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: Do feel like the sort of ending of the book

769
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: is a lot about her trying to figure out what

770
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: that means, Like, how does that work now that she's free?

771
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: I mean, notably, a lot has changed since the book

772
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: was edited. She and her husband have split. He's referenced

773
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 2: in the book as her husband. They didn't have to

774
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: ye to edit it. I mean, things have shifted, and yeah,

775
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: what does that look like for her? And it's interesting

776
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: too what you were saying at the beginning. I mean,

777
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: she's dipping her toe and then she's not sure but

778
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: now she's put this book out, which has put her

779
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: very much in the public liye again, And is that

780
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: where she wants to be and will she go back

781
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: to performing don't? I don't know.

782
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: Well. Also, there's the interesting thing that did you read

783
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: the Instagram post she just posted being like I don't

784
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: like what I'm reading.

785
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: About the book?

786
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't.

787
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you and I.

788
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: Both know how a book works, right, I mean, book

789
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: publishing works. The publisher or her press people have clearly

790
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: been releasing excerpts of the book on people, and they

791
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: have been doing that in a very strategic way, like actually,

792
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: I think I said to you at some point last week,

793
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: they're doing a great job with the release, because every.

794
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 3: Day it was a new set of headlines. Every day

795
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: was like.

796
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: Another site, a little bit of information, a little bit

797
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: of information out.

798
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know, but it does make you

799
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: wonder how much she's like aware of what her team

800
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: is doing as per usual, because then she put out

801
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: this statement on October twentieth, and she said, before the

802
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: book was out, my book's purpose was not to offend

803
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: anyone by any means. That was me then that is

804
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: in the past. I don't like the headlines I'm reading.

805
00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: That's exactly why.

806
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 3: I the business four years ago. Right.

807
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: So it's like, you don't like the headlines you're reading,

808
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: like that's what's selling your book, Like you're booking through

809
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: the presales, right, and this is why. So it's like

810
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: an interesting thing, right again, she has this relationship with

811
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: the process. She doesn't like the way fame works, and

812
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: yet it is the way it works. Like it's like

813
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: she's gonna have to either decide that she wants to

814
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: really run away from it or she wants to be

815
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: part of it. And if she's going to be part

816
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: of it, I do think she hasn't yet figured out

817
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: what that looks like, what she's okay with, how much

818
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: she's willing to give away for it. And I think

819
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: her Instagram is such a great example of this, right,

820
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: Like she is constantly shutting down her Instagram and then

821
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: coming back, like she she wants the attention of the Instagram,

822
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: but then something happens it makes her mad and she leaves.

823
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: And in fact, right after she posted this Instagram about

824
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: not liking the book headlines, she shut down her Instagram

825
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: and then she was back within a day. You know,

826
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: it's like this sort of perfect microcosm of her larger

827
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: relationship with attention. And there was that incident recently where

828
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: she was dancing with knives. Do you remember this, Yes?

829
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: I do. She's like dancing with the knives, and so

830
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: then her fans call the police and have them do

831
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: a welfare check on her, and so it's like she

832
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: can't even in.

833
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: The they were real knives, right like she says they

834
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: were prop knives.

835
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even if they were real knives, they

836
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: weren't dangerous, Like there was nothing dangerous about her dance routine.

837
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: But you know, she does address that in the book.

838
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: She addresses the way people react to her Instagram, because

839
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: there's also a lot of nudity in her Instagram and

840
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: her children have complained about that or I don't know

841
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: if it's her children or Kevin Federline or whatever, but

842
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: it has been said that her children don't like that,

843
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: and it's very provocative at times.

844
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: At some point she got a.

845
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: Stripper pole, and I think people don't really know how

846
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: to respond to it, and she says something about it.

847
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: She says, I know that a lot of people don't

848
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: understand why I love taking pictures of myself naked or

849
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: new dresses. But I think if they'd been photographed by

850
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: other people thousands of times, prodded and posed for people's approval,

851
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: they'd understand that I get a lot of joy from

852
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: posing the way I feel sexy in taking my own picture,

853
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: which I don't. Does that totally make sense? I don't

854
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: know why it didn't totally make sense to me?

855
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: Is an?

856
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think because there are hints of a

857
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: ghostwriter or an editor saying the thing that they know

858
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: needs to be said to justify the behavior in a

859
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: way that's palatable to the reader.

860
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I was confused by that.

861
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it doesn't I guess it

862
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: doesn't have to make sense, but I don't. I mean,

863
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: the thing that makes me so uncomfortable about Brittany in

864
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: a lot of ways is that everyone thinks they know, yeah,

865
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: and nobody really fucking knows. The fans don't know. The

866
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: free Brittany people don't know. I mean, maybe the ghostwriter knows.

867
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: But the ghost writer has an agenda to make the

868
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: book palatable and make it so that there's not legal

869
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: issues and make it so that she's not getting criticized

870
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: for X y and Z and you know, being the

871
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,479
Speaker 2: right amount of me. And when she calls Jamie Lynn

872
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: her little sister, a real bitch. Yeah, but also like

873
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: kind of making up word in the end. So it

874
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: still is like everyone has an agenda, I mean everyone.

875
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: It's like the critics have an agenda, the publicists have

876
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: an agenda, the ghost writer has an agenda, the book

877
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: editor has an agenda. So it is hard to tell.

878
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: I mean even some of the fans, right, Like even

879
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: some of the fans, like some of the Free Brittany

880
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: movement was attention for fans and gave them sort of

881
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: purpose and meaning, and so some of them haven't been

882
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: able to let it go.

883
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: Like there's also think they know best for her for

884
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 3: her Yeah.

885
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: And it's tough too, because the Free Brittany movement was right,

886
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: like they did actually draw attention. She writes about it

887
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 2: in the book, to the fact that she was trapped

888
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 2: in this thing, and she actually thanks them in the

889
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: book for that. But by the same token, there seems

890
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: to be this sense that everyone knows what's best for

891
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: Britney Spears. And I don't know that any of us

892
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: know what's best for Britney Spears.

893
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: I think that's right, and actually this is a good

894
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: place to end it because there was a quote from

895
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: the book I pulled which I felt like to me

896
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: was the essence of the book.

897
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 3: So I will read it and we can end on that.

898
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: Note great, which is on page two forty eight, she says,

899
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is that the mystery of

900
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: who the real me is is to my advantage because

901
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: nobody knows.

902
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: That's sort of that's funny, that's weird. I read it.

903
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 3: You've read this whole book and you still don't know

904
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: about me.

905
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 2: That is a good place to end it. I mean, yeah,

906
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: the reality is we don't know, but we will all

907
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: still keep talking about it.

908
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: This is in retrospect. Thanks for listening.

909
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: Is there a cultural moment you can't stop thinking about

910
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: and want us to explore in a future episode. Email

911
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: us at inretropod at gmail dot com, or find us

912
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: on Instagram at in retropod.

913
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: If you love this podcast, please rate and review us

914
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you

915
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,

916
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: which we may or may not delete.

917
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett

918
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: and at susib NYC. Also check out Jessica's books Feminist

919
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: Fight Club and This Is Eighteen.

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00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and The Media.

921
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our

922
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: engineer and sound designer. Sharon Attia is our researcher and

923
00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: associate producer.

924
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our

925
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stump and Katrina Norbel.

926
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: Our artwork is from Pentagram.

927
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: Additional editing help from Mary Doo and Mike Cosparelli. Sound

928
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: correction and mastering by Amanda Rose Smith. We are your

929
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: hosts Susie Bannecarum.

930
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: And Jessica Bennett. We're also executive producers for even more

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00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: check out inretropod dot com. See you next week.