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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George nor

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Speaker 1: with you, Don Lincoln with Us the Scientist. Several of

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Speaker 1: his books include The Large Hadron Collider, Understanding the Universe,

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Speaker 1: Alien Universe as well. His website is linked up at

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM dot com. He's also on Facebook

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Speaker 1: and he also has a YouTube channel as well. We'll

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Speaker 1: tell you how you can get to that and watch that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Don, you were saying that life is complex.

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Speaker 1: There's no question about it. But it is baffling how

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Speaker 1: a universe could create life the way we know it

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Speaker 1: right now, me talking to you people living dying. It's

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Speaker 1: it's amazing, isn't it. Well, it certainly is, um you know,

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Speaker 1: but there's sort of levels of fascinating fascination. Life, you know,

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Speaker 1: is biochemistry, but it all is predicated on even deeper laws,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the the chemistry of the carbon and

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Speaker 1: oxygen still forth that make up us. It's tied to

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Speaker 1: the properties of the particles that make up the atoms,

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Speaker 1: which is the stuff that that I study. The deeper laws,

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Speaker 1: the ones that that you know make the universe come

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Speaker 1: to people. Once that you have those laws, then it's

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Speaker 1: sort of inevitable that you will get complex chemistry. Now,

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Speaker 1: whether that complex chemistry turns into life, well that's an

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Speaker 1: open question. After all, when you look out, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: here on Earth, there's it seems that life was formed

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Speaker 1: at one time. I mean it, I suppose it could

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Speaker 1: have started and stopped a few times. But the last

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Speaker 1: time I get started pretty good it it took off.

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Speaker 1: So um, you know, I admit that it's a completely

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Speaker 1: fascinating question of how that came to be, But the

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Speaker 1: idea of chemistry is not so striking. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: but whether or not the form of life chemistry is inevitable,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're going to have to find life on

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Speaker 1: another planet before before we know that this is really

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Speaker 1: a common thing or not. Well, absolutely, But would it

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Speaker 1: not be very unusual, especially with the billions of stars

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Speaker 1: we have in the universe and the millions of planets

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Speaker 1: that we have, and many of them goldilock like us,

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Speaker 1: that we would be the only ones in this vast

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Speaker 1: universe to be here. Well, we can't generalize, I mean,

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Speaker 1: scientifically speaking, it's difficult to generalize on you know, a

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Speaker 1: single example, and all we have is is what we

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Speaker 1: see here. But I would grant you that that I

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Speaker 1: think what you said is true, and there's actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: some evidence here on Earth that makes me that supports that.

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Speaker 1: You know, we know sort of how the Earth was

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Speaker 1: formed by planetesimals, you know, crashing into one another and

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Speaker 1: heating up, and eventually you had the Earth, but it

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Speaker 1: was just this molten ball of rock. However, as soon

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Speaker 1: as the Earth cooled and water started to form, we

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Speaker 1: find that life formed here on Earth really very quickly

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Speaker 1: after the Earth cooled enough to sustain liquid water. And

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Speaker 1: so that's not a definitive answer, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: it didn't take a long time. It's not like the

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Speaker 1: Earth cooled and there was water and it took billions

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Speaker 1: and billions of years and then life formed. It's almost

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Speaker 1: immediately after it got cooled that life forms. So that

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Speaker 1: suggests to me that when you do look at all

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Speaker 1: those other planets that you talked about, that it's almost

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Speaker 1: I would say, this is no an opinion, it's not

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Speaker 1: a scientific fact, but I think it's almost inevitable that

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Speaker 1: life is incredibly common throughout the cosmos. What the hecked

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Speaker 1: on are black holes? What are those things? Black holes

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Speaker 1: are just crazy. What black holes are typically are the

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Speaker 1: burnt out hult husks of stars that once exploded, so

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Speaker 1: they were ginormous stars, much larger than ours. They burn

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Speaker 1: through their fuel, They they gave up, they died, and

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Speaker 1: when in doing so, they collapsed. They collapsed and the

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Speaker 1: outer levels of the stars. Does every star do that,

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Speaker 1: by the way, No, all the stars that are actually

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Speaker 1: pretty heavy, so you know, more than a I don't know,

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Speaker 1: eight times the side the mass of our star, for instance,

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Speaker 1: our star will not be a black hole will end up.

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Speaker 1: What it'll do is it'll burn through all its fuel.

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Speaker 1: It will do some pretty amazing gyrations before it dies.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it will puff up until what's called a

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Speaker 1: red giant. That giant the size of that red giant

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Speaker 1: star will almost certainly encompass the orbit of the Earth,

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Speaker 1: so the Earth will melt. But then when all of

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Speaker 1: the fuel is used up, what will happen is the

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Speaker 1: heat will will turn off. The mass of the star

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Speaker 1: will collapse down into what's called a white dwarf, so

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Speaker 1: it'll be a very small star, like a hot glowing

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Speaker 1: number that just sort of slowly dies out over hundreds

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Speaker 1: of billions of years. But getting back to your question

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Speaker 1: of the black hole, So in a star that is

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Speaker 1: enormous and it explodes and it drives a lot of

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Speaker 1: the mask down into a very very small volume. It

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Speaker 1: gets to be so small, with so much mass packed

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Speaker 1: into it, that the gravity becomes so strong that not

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Speaker 1: even light can escape. So that's why it's called a

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Speaker 1: black hole. Black Holes, they're very, very bizarre some people.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you listen to people, they'll say that

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Speaker 1: the black hole has a zero size, and that's probably

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Speaker 1: not true, but it is that it is incredibly small,

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Speaker 1: and so you can't get to the center of a

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Speaker 1: black hole because, if you know, the gravity changes as

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Speaker 1: a function of distance from the center, So at the

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Speaker 1: center gravity is ridiculous. But even at some distances where

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Speaker 1: you know it's not huge, it's a kilometer or something

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Speaker 1: like that, that's where the gravity is so big that

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Speaker 1: light can escape from it. Would it rip you apart

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Speaker 1: if you were going into it with a spacecraft, if

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Speaker 1: you were to fall. So that's actually interesting and it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely counterintuitive because there are two kinds of black holes

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Speaker 1: of which we're familiar. One is the black hole, which

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Speaker 1: is the death of a star. And the other is

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Speaker 1: a super huge black hole at the center of galaxies

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Speaker 1: which have masses of millions of which we've got in

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Speaker 1: the Milky Way, don't, which we do in all galaxies

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Speaker 1: seem to have that. So if you were to fall

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Speaker 1: into the a star size, a stellar size black hole,

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Speaker 1: as you were to fall into it, what would happen

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Speaker 1: is the gravity on your feet would be so much stronger,

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Speaker 1: say than the gravity on your head if you're falling

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Speaker 1: feet first, that the gravity would pull you apart. It's

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Speaker 1: called spaghetification, which is kind of a neat name for

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Speaker 1: what would undoubtedly be a painful and grizzly death. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you were to fall into one of these super

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Speaker 1: massive black holes, and it's very counterintuitive, but in that case,

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Speaker 1: you would not get pulled apart. And the reason there

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Speaker 1: is while the gravity is very strong, the gravity difference

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Speaker 1: from your feet and your head is not very much,

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Speaker 1: and so you would just fall into the black hole

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Speaker 1: and you would not get pulled apart. But what would

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Speaker 1: you see? What would you see don as you're being

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Speaker 1: pulled into it. Well, if you were to look towards

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Speaker 1: the black hole, you would see the matter that was

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Speaker 1: falling in ahead of you, and you would see it

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Speaker 1: being very red. And if you turn to look at

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Speaker 1: the outside universe, the universe you know that you're leaving behind,

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Speaker 1: you would see all of the stars, but they'd all

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Speaker 1: be very much bluer than they were. And that's because

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Speaker 1: as light falls into a black hole, it it essentially

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Speaker 1: picks up energy as it goes into the black hole,

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Speaker 1: and it gets bluer and bluer because blue light has

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Speaker 1: more energy than um. You know, then ordinarily, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of a black hole almost as if you're looking

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Speaker 1: at a water going down a drain, how it swirls.

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Speaker 1: Would that be the same kind of thing? Um, You know,

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Speaker 1: all analogies suffer from from some you know, weaknesses. But

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Speaker 1: there's some truth to that, now, not all. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in principal, black holes don't have to rotate, so that

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Speaker 1: the swirling analogy is really a very accurate one for

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Speaker 1: a black hole that's rotating. But of course many do

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Speaker 1: because if the star that made the black hole was rotating,

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Speaker 1: then the black hole itself will rotate. But it's not necessary.

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Speaker 1: They don't have to rotate, so you could, you know,

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Speaker 1: occasionally you could have water go down a drain and

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Speaker 1: that's not swirling in a little vortex. So you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: your analogy isn't too too bad. Not bad for a

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Speaker 1: non scientist, huh, not even bad for a scientist. Now,

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Speaker 1: does the black hole come to an end? And by

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Speaker 1: that I mean, can you, in theory reach the end

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Speaker 1: of it and like bounce into a wall or something. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question and it's not one that I

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Speaker 1: can answer definitively. So I'd like to distinguish between two

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Speaker 1: sort of different ways of thinking. There's what you know

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Speaker 1: from data, what you know from measurements, what you know

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Speaker 1: from looking and seeing, and then there's what you know

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Speaker 1: from taking your theory your mathematics and finding out what

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Speaker 1: the mathematics tells you. So what the mathematics tells you

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Speaker 1: is you fall into a black hole. It's there's no

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Speaker 1: bounce or anything. What happens is everything gets smaller and

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Speaker 1: smaller and smaller until you get to you at the

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Speaker 1: simplest mathematics, you get down to literal zero size. So

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Speaker 1: you get down to the very very center and everything

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Speaker 1: is crushed to zero size. Now we think that's probably wrong,

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Speaker 1: but we also think that it's not so wrong. So

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Speaker 1: the so we get to between a very small that's

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Speaker 1: the theoretical prediction, and that's, you know, our best understanding.

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Speaker 1: But from the from someone like me who's an experimentalist

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Speaker 1: who bases my conclusions on what we're able to see

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Speaker 1: and measure, we actually can't answer that question because there

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Speaker 1: is this thing called the event horizon, and the event

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Speaker 1: horizon is a sphere around the black hole where where

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Speaker 1: the gravity is so strong that light can escape. So

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Speaker 1: if you're on the outside watching something fall into the

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Speaker 1: black hole, you can't see inside the event horizon because

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Speaker 1: the gravity is so strong, light can't get back to you,

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Speaker 1: so you don't We don't literally know from from observation

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Speaker 1: what actually is going to happen inside there. So you

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Speaker 1: have to be careful when you talk about black holes,

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Speaker 1: what you see versus what you predict from your mathematics.

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Speaker 1: That's fascinating it truly is it Is it possible that

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Speaker 1: black holes connect you to another universe a multiverse? Yeah? Well,

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Speaker 1: as I said, you know, since we can't look inside,

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Speaker 1: there's some room for some speculation. That doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be the case. We don't think that black holes will

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Speaker 1: connect to two different universes. There is some mathematics that

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Speaker 1: says that two black holes can connect to one another.

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Speaker 1: So you could have a black hole, say here near

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Speaker 1: the Earth hypothetically, and another one halfway across the galaxy,

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Speaker 1: and those two black holes could connect to each other

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Speaker 1: in what's called a wormhole, which is very hypothetical and

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Speaker 1: maybe not something one should believe. But if it's true,

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Speaker 1: then it could be that this wormhole is like a

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Speaker 1: doorway between these two black holes, so that even though

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Speaker 1: if you were to go through normal space it might

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Speaker 1: take you tens of thousands of years to travel from

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Speaker 1: one to the other, going through the wormholes, you could

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Speaker 1: it's like a step from one side to the other. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's some downsides to that. If what I just told

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Speaker 1: you about wormholes is one of those mathematical predictions, and

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Speaker 1: one of the weirdnesses of the mathematical predictions is it

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Speaker 1: can only happen if there's a kind of energy called

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Speaker 1: negative energy, which is no one's ever seen before. It

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Speaker 1: may not exist, So this just may be some math

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Speaker 1: thing that isn't true. So that's the first thing. And

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Speaker 1: the second thing is, like we said, just a moment ago,

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Speaker 1: when you fall into a black hole, you get ripped apart.

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Speaker 1: So it may be that those two black holes connect

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Speaker 1: one another, but if they do, you're still going to

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Speaker 1: get ripped apart falling into one. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really work like it does in science fiction.

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Speaker 1: With everything you've worked on, don and will work on,

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Speaker 1: what's that one question that you would love answered? You know,

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Speaker 1: the questions that I ask? And I mean Albert Einstein

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Speaker 1: was once asked sort of what he wanted to know,

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Speaker 1: and what he said is, you know, I'm not interested

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Speaker 1: in the you know, the the light that comes off

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Speaker 1: from this or that element. He doesn't want to know

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Speaker 1: some of the details of the chemistry of a certain

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Speaker 1: specific material. What he wants to know is God's thoughts.

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Speaker 1: The rest are just details. Now, he did not believe

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Speaker 1: in a literal God, but it's a lovely metaphor. And

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Speaker 1: basically what he wanted to know was the answer to everything.

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Speaker 1: How does it all hang together? Why? Or things the

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Speaker 1: way they are? And he thought about that his entire life,

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Speaker 1: and he died not knowing. But this is the sort

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Speaker 1: of question that I'd like to know the answer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I really would like to know how come we are?

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Speaker 1: How we are. I mean, it didn't seem it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like it has to be that way. There's got

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Speaker 1: to be a reason. And you know, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to figure this out in my lifetime or or you know,

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Speaker 1: my great great grandchildren's lifetime. It's a it's a journey

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Speaker 1: of millennia. But you know, I'm hoping to find a

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Speaker 1: little peace on that journey. Well, I think so. I

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Speaker 1: think we'll get to that point indeed. And it's just

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Speaker 1: fascinating what science is doing, this technology helping us get

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Speaker 1: to that or is it just still brainpower? No, I

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Speaker 1: mean it has to be technology, because you know, brainpower

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Speaker 1: is amazing. But the fact of the matter is that

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Speaker 1: the human mind is enormously inventive. They can think of

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Speaker 1: all sorts of possible ideas, possible answers to the questions

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Speaker 1: that plague us. But you know, just like you can

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Speaker 1: go to a library and you go to the science

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Speaker 1: fiction section, there are all sorts of need ideas that

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Speaker 1: people have played with and explored that aren't actually true.

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Speaker 1: They're just really cool ideas. So it's only through having

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Speaker 1: those need ideas and having technology where you can test

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Speaker 1: all the interesting hypotheses and you find the one that

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Speaker 1: the universe happens to be so no, this technology is

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Speaker 1: crucial in pursuing these timeless questions. Listen to more Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more