WEBVTT - U.S. Unemployment Rescue Left Millions Without Help 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.320 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.680 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.279 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.800 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. But among our virus headlines, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.160 we talked about some of them about the US rising 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.519 to the top of Bloomberg's COVID Resilience ranking for the 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.159 first time. It's really a measure that indicates how all 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.200 countries are handling the pandemic. Your pin nations are also 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.800 moving higher on the list as I opened for the summer. 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.199 But we did report that the UK today saying that 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.159 I had the most new COVID cases since January. So 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.640 they continue to struggle through here with how though the 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.680 health care system continues to grapple with the pandemic. Jennet Elkin, 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.840 she's president CEO at Icon Medical Network. She joins us 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.960 on the phone from Dallas, Texas. Janet, nice to have 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.720 you here on this Monday. How are you. I'm good. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.600 Nice to be heard, Carol. Well, tell me a little 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.520 bit about what you are seeing when it comes to 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:15.240 health care systems dealing with the pandemics still but getting 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.679 a little bit more back to normal. But also, as 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.039 you know, other medical needs arise. What does that mean 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.600 for demand for healthcare workers? Well, for healthcare workers overall. 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.760 Obviously there's a high demand UM we saw for nursing 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.400 during the because the height hopefully it was the height 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.880 of the pandemic. But now we're seeing physicians staffing really 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.840 warring back. Obviously people were not going to the doctor 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.080 unless they had to and really putting off surgeries. But 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.160 what was already high and demand to begin with, just 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:49.240 really not enough physicians is causing almost really a crisis 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.440 point with especially with more physicians retiring now. Well, and 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.880 that's interesting. Where are we kind of generally speaking, in 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:59.600 the United States when it comes to UM people wanting 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.280 to be us because we know who we've seen the 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.000 Ebbs and Flowers here. Well, it's not. I think it's 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.680 not so much a question of the wanting to become doctors, 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.960 it's that they want a different life, different lifestyle. You know. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.400 The The A m A recently published something that for 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.280 the first time ever, less than half of all active 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.920 physicians are not working in the smaller private practices. They've moved, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.720 like everything else, right to the large systems because it's 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.200 just too expensive for someone in private practice. That's making 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.359 a real demand difference, because I think the loyalty is 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.919 different when it's not like just someone in a one 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.040 person shops, so to speak. And so we're finding that 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.840 there's they want more choices and they want a more 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.919 flexible lifestyle like everybody else. Does that mean that they're 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.280 gravitating or continuing to gravitate towards major cities, And what 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.480 does that do for rural communities. I'm just curious about that. Well, 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.760 it's always been difficult oly for the royal communities. Right 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.799 now I think even more so. Um, we recently did 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:06.320 something because we staff temporary um positions for physicians in Arizona, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.880 where there was a very rural town. They opened up 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.040 a new mine, which meant they doubled the population in 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.959 just a few weeks between that and the pandemic. We 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.040 had to get people, but how do you get them there? 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.959 So we did a telehealth project where we had overnight 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.600 hospitalists that use laptops and they brought the laptop from 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.639 patient to patient. But it was a way to get 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.560 them served. Yeah, how's that working? How do you feel like, 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.920 how do doctors? What's the feedback that you're hearing about telehealth? 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.000 I think it's not obviously going to take over the industry. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.320 There's sometimes where you have to lay hands on people, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.080 right and you have to actually see them. But I 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.440 do think that in some areas where we have such 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.480 critical shortages, like psychiatrists, where I'm sure we've all read 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.000 the articles about the demand now more than ever for 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.640 mental health services, that's an area where you also really 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.119 could use more telehealth, And I think it's a way 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.480 of trying to be effective and efficient and just get 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.720 more people taken care of wherever they live. Yeah. I 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.080 know a fair amount of people just anecdotally that when 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.040 especially came to mental well beings, that for the first time, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.000 because it was much more accessible in many ways, an 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.120 easier to reach out to a therapist, and I do 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.440 wonder if the tables have really or things have really shifted, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.000 especially when it comes to psychiatry and mental well being 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.200 in terms of professionals being able to reach a kind 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.040 of a wider swath of our population. I think you're right, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.400 and they need to because they're just Psychiatry has been 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.560 in demand for a long time, but now we cannot 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.680 keep up with the demand for assignments for our psychiatrists 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.800 because and no one can. It's just that it's just 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.600 that critical. Really, And remember also that some of the 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.719 psychotrates tend to be a little bit of an older age, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.960 and we're finding this is amazing to me. They escape 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.280 to the survey recently that of all physicians are looking 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.719 to do an early retirement than they used to and 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.599 we can't afford that. Yeah, that's pretty why old. What 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.400 about the medical community that you deal with the doctors? 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.839 Are we seeing vaccinations continue to be handed out? Are 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.240 we reaching those underserved areas as rural areas? Have we 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.760 have we reached out there to to the people who 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.520 really do want the vaccine? Right, well, they are. I 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.520 think the supply is definitely, um, you know, considerably better 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.680 than it was. But I think regardless um, whether it's 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.960 now or post or pre pandemic, they're just or not. 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.520 You know, rural areas are not often considered really desirable 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.359 for physicians to want to set up a practice or 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.200 go and work at a hospital, and so that continues 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.200 to be an issue. Primary care is one grant example 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.280 of that. There's just there aren't enough There aren't enough 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.680 scholarships to be given to be able to get the 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:51.960 folks there, and that's where really temporary staffing physicians helps dramatically. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.200 It's interesting. I don't often think about temporary staffing when 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.000 it comes to doctors. You just assume that they're all 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.800 full time positions that's at hospitals or healthcare. But it's 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.039 not the way it works. Just got about thirty seconds left. Sure, No, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.159 there's more demand for temporary and we're seeing it either 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.440 new grads at a regidency, middle career and doctors are 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.120 taking about retiring. What's hey, one of the last question 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.960 just a few seconds. Wages are wages going up for doctors? 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.880 Wages are in certain special castes um, psychiatry, cardiology, surgery. Yep. Alright, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.360 good to know, hey, Great to check in with you. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.640 Janet Elkin she's president CEO Icon Medical Network. On the 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.799 phone from Dallas, Texas. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.960 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovich on 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.320 Bloomberg Radio. I mentioned this was a most read story. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.680 It is the most read story on the Bloomberg on 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.760 this Monday. It's about President find targeting two weapons that 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.920 the richest one tenth of one percent used to avoid taxes. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.680 Let's find out exactly what's going on. Bloomberg New Senior 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.840 Tax reporter Allison vers Sprill is on the phone from Washington, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.800 d C. Allison, So, what exactly are we talking about? 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.440 So we're talking about the you know, details of the 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.359 Biden proposals that were released late last month. You know, 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.440 I think at first people kind of needed some time 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.680 to dig through these. But on close inspection, you know, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.720 we learned that the Biden administrations plans would you know, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:22.240 essentially dismantled these two popular planning techniques. Um, we have 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.200 one that's called a dynasty trust. Essentially you can set 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.360 these up and they aren't you know, incurring gift to 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:34.040 state or generation skipping taxes for multiple generations. So the 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.000 Biden plan would actually charge a capital gains tax on 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.760 appreciated assets in these trusts every ninety years. Um. But 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.080 because of the way it's drafted, we could see taxes 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.600 come to us early as December. And then we also 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:51.360 have language that would charge capital gains taxes. One property 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.600 is transferred into an out of trust and in talking 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.280 with the Treasury official, you know, this is aimed specifically 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.800 at this very common tool, um, if not complicated, tool 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.640 known as the intentionally defective grand toward trust. Uh So 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.760 as people start the great name yes, yeah, it's definitely 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.880 a long name, definitely in a a state planning type of 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.680 type name. Um. But you know, people have started to 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.080 become really concerned about some of this language. We kind 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.240 of missed this earlier. Well, you know, the broad strokes 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.200 of the outline that the President was talking about didn't 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:30.160 specifically go into how trust were impacted. And then even 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.120 getting into the green book language, some of it's a 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.240 little bit vague. I think that Dyna dynasty trust proportion 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.240 was um, a bit more obvious than some of this 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.199 other language on transfers. And you know, I'm told that 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.000 the second piece of that could affect even beyond um. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.320 You know, these intentionally defective trust that I mentioned, But 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.440 we'll have to see how kind of the legislation is drafted. 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.240 And you know, I R S riggs even further beyond 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.120 that you writing your reporting, Allison. I mean, and it's 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.880 not just a U S thing. We're seeing it around 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:04.960 the globe where governments are looking countries are looking to 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.880 implement new taxes on capital gains inheritance basically go after 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.360 the wealthy when it comes to paying maybe a greater share, 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:18.280 a fairer share that some might argue of taxes. No, 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.720 that's absolutely right. You know, we see these in uh Stockholm, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.000 we see these in other countries. And I think the 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:29.120 idea here is that obviously COVID nineteen has um you know, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.800 poked these massive holes in government budgets, and during that time, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.520 especially in the US, you saw that the rich weren't 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.080 really necessarily impacted like the rest of uh, you know, 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.800 like the rest of the country. So this has definitely 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.080 been a priority in the US. It's definitely a priority 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.160 of class across the globe. Alright, So what's going on 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.600 with all the financial advisors to the wealthy? You're there 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.280 like wait, wait, wait, wait, what trying to figure it out, like, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.599 what what's the feedback because it's a great quote in 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:01.080 your story one lawyer, Um, I guess that advises individuals 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.360 or a tax lawyer. What they're doing is creating a 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.480 whole new tax regime, and it sounds like that's what's 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.640 going on. So you know, if enacted, I think people 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.320 are are starting to say that they would really have 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.840 to reconsider the techniques they're using. Um. I don't think 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.880 this makes plan and go away. There are always going 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.240 to be smart planners that can help people get around 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.400 their taxes. Um. But but these are things that have 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.600 become really popular in recent years. And so you know, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:33.120 essentially people question is it worth using the specific tool 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.080 that I've I've had in my arsenal for for the 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.680 last several decades, and you have there's definitely consideration of that. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.800 Two key words you said, if enacted right the final language, 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.720 as we know, in any kind of bill or legislation, 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:47.559 I mean, ultimately it's up to Congress how they lay 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:51.520 it out. Definitely, and you know we've already seen so 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.640 we have this infrastructure package that's now moving along that 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.200 would be bipartisan that doesn't have any of these tax increases. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.000 In it um. There has been discussion that Democrats would 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.480 pursue in the budget sort of their own standalone package 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.480 that would um, you know, make some of these tax 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.920 increases along party line, which has obviously created some controversy. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.040 But you have to get essentially everyone, you know, every 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.880 Democratic vote in the Senate. UM. There's not a huge 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.200 margin in the House, and so it still remains to 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.199 be seen, you know, if this gets enacted, if this 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.040 gets paired back at all. So we'll just have to 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.160 see how the conversation moves forward. Hey, just fifteen seconds here. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.560 How quickly does it move forward? Is it before the summer, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.560 before the end of the year. Just is there a 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.679 bit of a timeline just quickly? I would not anticipate 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.440 if we're talking about reconciliation, that usually start coming together 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.520 around the fall. I mean, you might have some things 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.520 beginning to crystal a lot or discussions are definitely gonna 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.080 be happening this summer, but you have to consider there's 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.160 the recess in August. UM, so I see most of 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.040 the action coming in this fall. All right, good to know, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.600 we'll put that on our calendars. Alison vers Bill, Thank 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.800 you so much, Senior Tax reporter at Bloomberg News on 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.520 the phone from Washington, d C. This is Bloomberg Business 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.320 Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.040 on Bloomberg Radio. Well, and the current is show of 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.520 Bloomberg Business Week Magazine. It's a Bloomberg exclusive looking at 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.720 the US unemployment benefits given out during the pandemic. Who 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.160 got them? Really? That story from Bloomberg News Senior Trade 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.800 and Globalization reporter Shawn don and he joins us from 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.439 our one studio in Washington, d C. Along with Business 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.440 Week nitor Joel Webber in our Interactive Broker studio in 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.120 New York. This is such an important story, especially with 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.040 the debate about why workers aren't coming back Joel, because 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.600 they're getting lots of benefits. This story really looks into 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.800 the numbers and it's been one that I think culturally 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.439 we've been aware of for a while. But what Sean 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.680 donnan and Read picker Um did in this particular issue 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.520 was go even bigger. And the number that they came 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.680 out up with was that there were at least nine 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.040 million Americans who were thrown out of work by the pandemic, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.319 and they didn't receive unemployment benefits UM despite there being 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.760 billions trillions of dollars that flowed into the system. And 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.599 as they were reporting that, obviously that big of a 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.960 number sticks out to you, and then you start to wonder, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.000 why so so, Sean bring you in here? Why what happened? 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.480 What went wrong? Well, I mean the answer is that, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.959 and we've all learned this in the in the last year, 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.920 is that the unemployment system in the United Stage is 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.320 just in really lousy shape. And it's everything from being 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:37.560 overloaded with unprecedented amount of claims or UH as I 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 like to think of people reaching out for for help 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.920 UM and UH also old I T systems and just 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:51.920 trying to to process these applications and also getting caught 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.080 up in this question of fraud that's been hanging over 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.719 the system as well. There there's been a lot of 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.640 you know, when you dig into this system, a lot 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.920 of state officials talk about the high number of fraudulent 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:05.839 claims that they've seen, but you scratch the surface a 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.400 little bit and you discover there's also a lot of 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.719 innocent people who have been accused of fraud. I look, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.920 I was on the phone this morning with someone who 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.800 reached out to me after after seeing our story, and 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.240 who says, you know, they've been waiting six weeks for 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.960 their latest unemployment benefits after having after getting benefits for 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.240 without any problem for most of the last year. Uh. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.880 And the reason is that the state of Maryland says 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.440 they can't verify uh their identity, even though this person 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.840 has sent all sorts of ideas uh their ways. So 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.360 it's just it's a system that's overloaded. But it's a 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.560 system that also in a lot of places seems to 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.440 be kind of biased towards assuming that someone reaching out 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.880 for help may not always be doing so, uh, you know, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.240 with the right intentions. What's great about this story by 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.120 you and read shall one is that, right, we often 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.240 see headlines, we see numbers, but we forget that there 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.200 are people behind those numbers. Take us to either barbed 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.880 story or raised story. You actually get into their details. Yeah. Look, 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.080 I I just got an imimo in the last hour 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.160 from Barbashbrook as well in Indiana. And Barb is like 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.640 a lot of people in this country, and that she 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.560 kind of cobbles together a living on a couple of different, 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.600 uh part time jobs. Before the pandemic, she worked twenty 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.200 hours a week at Dollar Tree, and she worked twenty 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:33.240 hours a week or so as a cashier in the 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.600 food court in Eli Lily's, one of their office buildings 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.800 in Indianapolis. Uh And when the pandemic hit, she lost 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.080 that job in the food court because no one was 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.560 going to the office anymore. She applied for unemployment, and 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.480 she was told that she wasn't eligible for unemployment because 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.280 she made more than a d twenty one dollars a 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.520 week at a Dollar Tree where she worked as a cashier. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.640 And that is more than she would have received in 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.360 benefits from the state of Indiana just to make up 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.600 for her lost income at the food court job. Now, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:11.600 you just got to back up for a second there, 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:17.080 imagine trying to exist one dollars a week, first of all. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.920 Second of all, the benefits that she would have been 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.640 entitled to with the federal top up at the time 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.520 would have been more like seven dollars a week. That 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:31.120 would have completely changed Barbashbrooks experience in this pandemic. And 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.680 then it kind of gets almost into a weird kaf 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.840 Gaysk tale where a few months after she was denied benefits, 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.720 all of a sudden some money turned up in her 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.480 bank account from the state of Indiana, um, and she 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.600 sent most of it back right away. It took the 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.920 state a couple of months to acknowledge that. And now 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:56.400 they've accused her of being overpaid these benefits and at 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.560 one point in March they were threatening to garnish her 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.200 wages and her tax were turns um and she's you know, 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.480 she reached out for help and she didn't get the 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.439 help she needed, and then she got caught up in 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.400 this bureacratic nightmare. And you know, the message and her 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.320 email just an hour ago to me was you know, 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.280 I'm never going to apply for unemployment benefits again. That's 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.160 the big lesson from here is that there's no one 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.680 there to help me. Another another lesson or inside and 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.000 interested in as you mentioned Indiana there, Sean, and it 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.399 really reveals what a patchwork quilt of a country we have, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.680 because every state has its own systems and its own 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.679 problems that they have to wrestle with her. What did 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.640 you learn on that front? How inconsistent are the states? Look, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.320 I mean there's huge inconsistency in the states. And this 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.800 is the you know, the Grand Bargain that was struck 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.720 in a new deal was for the states to control 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.040 a lot of how unemployment benefits are paid, and that 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.840 means they get to decide how much is paid on 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:56.919 on on a weekly basis basis. So you have some 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.720 states that will pay you a hundred bucks or so 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.240 a week, up to eight hundred dollars a week in 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.679 the maximum level in Massachusetts. That's even before this federal 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.239 top up that we've had during the pandemic. And then 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.439 you have also states that are incredibly strict in terms 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.280 of who they will give benefits to. If you lived 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.199 in Arizona and you worked thirty hours a week at 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.960 the minimum wage job, you would not be eligible for 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.119 unemployment benefits because you would not hit their minimum income threshold. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.120 In Indiana, you know a third of the people who 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.040 applied for benefits in that state, Uh, we did not 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.440 receive any benefits. So what your I always think about 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.160 when you do something like this and you guys went 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.080 through a ton of data. Uh, it's not always perfect, 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.320 right because the reporting isn't always perfect. Um, where's the 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.560 problem is it that we need federal guidelines on this 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.199 or what do we need? What is the problem? How 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.560 do we fix this? Because we're going to have another crisis. Yeah, no, absolutely, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.920 And I think that's the that's the real thing that's 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.480 exposed here is that the system that we have is 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.640 too narrow in terms of who it defines UH as 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.520 being eligible for benefits. So we need to think about 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.240 how the economy has changed and we need to broaden 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.440 out the system to catch more of these people who 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.119 are there. And we also need to understand that, um, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.480 we need to get this money out there two people 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.240 quickly because that money has actually been hugely effective in 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.320 reducing a lot of the broader economic damage that we've 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.000 seen in this pandemic. This is a great way to 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.000 get money out there when it works. The problem is 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.480 it just doesn't work enough and for enough people. Well, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.360 it's an incredible read, and I know you guys did, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.359 like I said, going through all the data points. Sean, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.719 thank you so much. Really appreciate you bringing it to us. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.760 Sean donn And, Senior Trade and Globalization reporter at Bloomberg 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.440 News from our bureau in d C. Joe Weber, editor 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.520 of Bloomberg Business Week here in our interactive broker studio. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.840 Important story. Absolutely, And when that you know that there's 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.640 the wrestle with the amount of data. Only imagine there 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.120 is a part right at the end of the story 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.760 that talks about here's a here's a really hefty paragraph 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.719 to understand how we actually like dealt with the numbers, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.320 which is what it's all about. All right, chel, thanks, 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:15.359 I'm rom journal. Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no, 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:20.160 no, no no, no home, honey, please, I'll do the right drivel. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:30.480 I want to drive, just drive by the question trying. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.240 This is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks. 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.720 We'll drying us down on Bluebird Radio. All right, just 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.840 about ten and a half minutes left in today's trading session. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:48.920 We have definitely seen a leg up when it comes 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.280 to the S and P five hundred and the NASDAC 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.560 just off their highs of the session. It really is, though, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.680 generally speaking, risk off trade today, except if you happen 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:00.520 to be in the text base, if happened to be 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.280 a chip stock, and we know that. We also saw 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.000 some of those big tech names, specifically Facebook, pishing past. 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.320 It's one trillion dollar market cap, So let's get to 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.960 it and let's talk about the drive to the close. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.400 Joining us once again is one of our favorite guests here, 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.080 and we're talking about Tom Plum. He is president chief 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.600 investment officer at Plum Funds based in Madison, Wisconsin, joining 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:24.520 us on the phone from there. I talked about this 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.480 all the time. His balance fund consistently a top performer. 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.200 It has been pretty much all of its peers in 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.639 the past five years, returning on average annually fifteen percent. 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:35.600 Forgive me, Tom, I have a ton of notes around 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.040 me and I couldn't find we're I wanted to go. 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.040 Nice to have you back with us. How are you? 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.040 It's great to talk to you. It's that kind of 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.440 a Monday. I'm just gonna put it out there. So 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.720 this marketplace, what have you been doing? Have you been buying? 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.600 Have you been selling? How do you see it? Are 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:55.440 their opportunities? Well, Caroline, like we've talked in the past, um, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:02.320 the market initially had the cyclical bound economy, and those 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.320 were the stocks that really were performing first part of 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:09.520