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Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to my Thursday edition of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I got a great episode for you today if you're

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Speaker 1: frustrated by the two political parties. And there's actually been

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Speaker 1: some news about that, right The former White House Press

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Speaker 1: secretary for Joe Biden announced that she's leaving the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: Kareem Jean Pierre, who one time we used to work

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Speaker 1: for move On, which was in itself a force that

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Speaker 1: was more progressive than Democratic. Interesting decision there, And she's

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Speaker 1: got a book that's going to be coming out about

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Speaker 1: her experience at the White House. But launching her book,

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Speaker 1: launching the book, news was this idea that she is

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Speaker 1: unregistering as a Democrat. Well, guess who I've just interviewed

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Speaker 1: and what this episode is going to feature. It's the

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Speaker 1: CEO of the Forward Party. You may remember the Forward

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Speaker 1: Party from the days of Andrew Yang, who was a

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Speaker 1: presidential candidate in twenty twenty one. Of many he actually

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Speaker 1: caught a little bit of fire the Yng Gang at

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Speaker 1: one time. He had a friend of mine reminded me

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Speaker 1: he may have had the best political paraphernalia in a

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Speaker 1: big shot glass and it was like the ultimate long shot.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Yang for President, which was terrific, but he his

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Speaker 1: experience running as a Democrat working with the Democrats caused

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Speaker 1: him to think that there's got to be a better way,

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Speaker 1: so he started the Forward Party. It has since sort

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Speaker 1: of combined forces with what former New Jersey Governor Christy Whitman,

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Speaker 1: one time a Republican, now I think an independent now

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Speaker 1: member of this Forward Party. Kerrie Healy, who was Romney's

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Speaker 1: lieutenant governor when he was governor of Massachusetts, is also

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Speaker 1: active in this and so there is a growing coalition

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Speaker 1: of sort of what you would call refugee political refugees

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Speaker 1: from the two parties. Now, I think we're going to

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Speaker 1: have this conversation with Lindsay and you'll see what they're

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Speaker 1: trying to be. They Are they an outpost for the

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Speaker 1: frustrated man major party adherents or are they going to

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Speaker 1: try to be something more. I'm not going to give

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Speaker 1: that away, but there's a lot of people frustrated by

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Speaker 1: the direction of both parties, and there's always been this

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Speaker 1: question why do we have only two? Obviously, battled access

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Speaker 1: is one reason the two parties have created duopoly. If

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Speaker 1: any other business work this way, there'd be the government

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Speaker 1: would force some sort of change here. But there's no

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Speaker 1: doubt that the political party structures in this country need

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Speaker 1: to be disrupted or we're going to continue to have

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Speaker 1: these unhappy elections where we continue to vote out whatever

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Speaker 1: parties in power. And if you look at basically, that's

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century, and to me, it is a

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Speaker 1: sign of wholesale dissatisfaction with political leadership. And so the

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Speaker 1: only thing we can do if we don't like our

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Speaker 1: political leadership is vote the other party in. And if

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Speaker 1: you look, I mean it is amazing. We've only had

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Speaker 1: two elections this century where the status quote prevailed completely.

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Speaker 1: It was in two thousand and four and twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: the Bush reelect and the Obama reelect, and both Congress

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Speaker 1: and the Senate did not change hands in either of

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Speaker 1: those cycles sations the only time that's happened. Every two

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Speaker 1: years we have tossed some party out of power of

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Speaker 1: either the White House, control of the House, or control

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Speaker 1: of the Senate every single election two six, eight, ten, twelve, fourteen, sixteen, eighteen, twenty,

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Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty four, likely twenty six. Right, we'll see

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Speaker 1: what's coming. So it is to me a primal screen

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Speaker 1: from the American public that they want to stop picking

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Speaker 1: going to the clothing store and only having the choice

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Speaker 1: of extra small or extra large. I think they would

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Speaker 1: like some some sort of choice of political of parties

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Speaker 1: somewhere in between those two. But before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: I've got a there's been in some ways this goes

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Speaker 1: to the distrust of the two political parties. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: let me touch quickly on the Elon Musk Donald Trump feud.

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Speaker 1: What are we to make of this? Right? What I'll

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Speaker 1: say is be careful lumping all of the opposition to

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Speaker 1: the big beautiful Bill into one camp. Right, Elon Musk's

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Speaker 1: opposition is different than Josh Holly's opposition, is different than

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Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski's opposition, is different than Akim Jeffrey's opposition. There

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Speaker 1: is and so while there is a growing collection of

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Speaker 1: people of all politicians of various stripes, if you will,

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Speaker 1: and political leaders of various stripes, most of them have

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Speaker 1: a different reason for what they're upset about. I will

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Speaker 1: just say this, if the Republican Party, or if the

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Speaker 1: Trump White House is frustrated by this process, they only

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Speaker 1: have themselves to blame. They have chosen not to govern

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Speaker 1: for the entire country they have chosen to try to

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Speaker 1: govern via one party rule. Governing via one party rule

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Speaker 1: never works. You do not get what you want. Obama

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Speaker 1: got forced into one party rule. But the reason Obamacare

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Speaker 1: stuck is at least he spent a year trying to

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Speaker 1: get bipartisan support. He went and sat there and let

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Speaker 1: invited Republicans to Blairhouse to give their perspective on healthcare.

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Speaker 1: It was a bipartisan effort, even though the ultimate result

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Speaker 1: in order to pass it was a partisan was a

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Speaker 1: partisan vote. But at least the process was bipartisan. They

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Speaker 1: were trying hard, and it was essentially a Republican idea.

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Speaker 1: The mandates and just remember Obamacare is just a derivative

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Speaker 1: of the original Heritage Foundation idea from the mid nineties

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Speaker 1: that Bob Dole was a fan of. That met Romney

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Speaker 1: built the Massachusetts health Care Plan. So the point is

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Speaker 1: it was an effort to so the idea was bipartisan,

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Speaker 1: even if the result getting it done was. But ever

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Speaker 1: since then, and in some ways perhaps it's the wrong

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Speaker 1: lesson that both parties took from that experience from Obama

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Speaker 1: is like, well, just do it with one party. It's

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Speaker 1: the only way. In that way, you're only negotiating with yourself.

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Speaker 1: But this is not how you govern, and this is

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Speaker 1: not how you get anything done. And then you end

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Speaker 1: up creating these Frankenstein bills, right Biden had a Frankenstein bill.

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Speaker 1: Trump put together a Frankenstein tax bill the first time,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they had to create this expiration date

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Speaker 1: in order to prevent the deficit from look from the

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Speaker 1: debt projections from just blowing people, blowing the markets out

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Speaker 1: of the water. And now they're stuck with another version

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Speaker 1: of a Frankenstein bill that if they would actually try

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Speaker 1: to get bipartisan buy in, they might have a more

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Speaker 1: durable bill. It might not be have everything that they

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Speaker 1: wish that they had, but they wouldn't have the political

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Speaker 1: nightmare that they're dealing with right now. And of course

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what gets past. It is not going

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Speaker 1: to say half of it is going to get overturned

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Speaker 1: by the next administration, just like this administration is trying

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Speaker 1: to overturn half of what Biden got done. There'll be

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Speaker 1: some things they won't be able to get rid of,

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Speaker 1: just like there'll be some things the next administration won't

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Speaker 1: we get rid of Trump, but it will be a

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Speaker 1: much easier to wipe away his legacy, just like it's

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Speaker 1: pretty easy to way boy the Biden legacy simply because

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Speaker 1: of this decision by everybody. And they blame it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's the other party's fault that we have to do

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Speaker 1: this one party. You got to get caught trying. And

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Speaker 1: one thing Barack Obama did is got caught trying. And

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Speaker 1: you know, even though he didn't get any Republican support

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Speaker 1: for Obamacare, he went through the motions. You don't even

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Speaker 1: see Biden didn't go through the motions. Trump certainly is

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Speaker 1: going out of his way not to go through the motions.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the fact that they are purging people based

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Speaker 1: on whether they gave money to Democrats, what they did

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Speaker 1: to this NAS employee, which of ken I think? And

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Speaker 1: this gets me to Elon Musk. So what do we have?

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Speaker 1: What do we make of this? Right, there was plenty

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Speaker 1: of us that said, we know this relationship is going

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Speaker 1: to end badly. We just don't know when it's going

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Speaker 1: to end badly. And you know, there was always going

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Speaker 1: to be a test of wills. Right, one is the

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Speaker 1: most powerful person in the world and one is the

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Speaker 1: richest person in the world. One is term limited. The

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Speaker 1: rich guy is not, and so I had always assumed

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Speaker 1: it's and it was it felt as if and if

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Speaker 1: you want to just look at it through the terms,

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Speaker 1: and Trump is a power guy first and foremost, right,

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Speaker 1: That's why he always, you know, sits a certain way.

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Speaker 1: He always wants to be in a power position. He

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Speaker 1: believes in just sort of doing things every once in

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Speaker 1: a while to make sure people know where they who they,

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Speaker 1: where they sit, as far as is Orbit's concerned. So

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Speaker 1: it's not a shock to me that he wanted to

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Speaker 1: send little shot at Elon that says, hey, just remember

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Speaker 1: you know you still need me. So he dumps the

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Speaker 1: NASA guy. Well, in some ways, I think Musk took

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Speaker 1: that as oh, okay, well then I can go public

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Speaker 1: criticizing you if that's the shot at them. And so

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Speaker 1: here we are, do I think it will escalate more.

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Speaker 1: I kind of have my doubts. One thing about the

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Speaker 1: pattern of Donald Trump is anybody who's wealthier than he is,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't quite go after with the same vigor as

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Speaker 1: he will say me and other people in the press,

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Speaker 1: for instance, Right, I mean, look at how he softened

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Speaker 1: on Zuckerberg and softened on Bezos anybody with money he

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Speaker 1: will eventually soften on. Part of it is that he

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Speaker 1: just usually because he wants a piece of the piece

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Speaker 1: of their action, and if they come in with some

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Speaker 1: sort of transactional aspect to it, then he's there to

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Speaker 1: do business. So I think he will. He will be

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Speaker 1: careful here too much. So I have to tell you

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Speaker 1: there's one thing I want to single out, and I

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Speaker 1: actually i'm hoping to. I'm going to, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to publicly say that I want to book Ari

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Speaker 1: Fleischer and have a discussion with something he tweeted. Ari

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Speaker 1: was reacting to what Elon Musk was doing, and he

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Speaker 1: tweeted this. He said, Elon Musk is on his way

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Speaker 1: to becoming Scott Scott McClellan. Scott McLellan was a press

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Speaker 1: secretary during the Bush forty three administration who did a

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Speaker 1: tell all book and suddenly everybody hated him in the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party because he did a tell all anyway, so

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Speaker 1: Ari Fleischer said, that's he's becoming Scott McClellan. That's not good,

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Speaker 1: smart or principal thing to be. These will always hate him,

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Speaker 1: even if they may now quote him before he destroys

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Speaker 1: the good will he still has with ours. I hope

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Speaker 1: he'll think twice he's done great things. I hope he

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Speaker 1: doesn't burn all his bridges. So basically, what what Fleischer

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Speaker 1: is implying, it's like, hey, if you have an independent thought,

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Speaker 1: be careful expressing it because you're going to need one

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Speaker 1: party or the other and those guys are always going

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Speaker 1: to reject you. Don't you want don't you want our support?

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Speaker 1: And this I just hate that this is the mindset.

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Speaker 1: And ri might be right. I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 1: here and say he's wrong that. You know, if Elon

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Speaker 1: thinks this is going to help him get back into

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Speaker 1: the good graces of a democratic leadership administration, should that

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Speaker 1: be what comes next? Maybe he's right and these will

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Speaker 1: never you know, forgive him for his relationship with Trump

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Speaker 1: or what he did, you know, his sort of what

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Speaker 1: he did at AID, which is just a ridiculous way

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Speaker 1: to go about this with DOJE. But this shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: the mindset, right. This assumes that basically the goal of

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Speaker 1: governing is only one party, right, and if you're in

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Speaker 1: charge your part, you do everything with your party, and

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Speaker 1: you better be a team player. God forbid you. You

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Speaker 1: you somehow disagree, don't ever say you're disagree. This is

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Speaker 1: kind of what's wrong, right. This is why both parties

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Speaker 1: have had this outsider explosion at the elites and the

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Speaker 1: establishment of these two parties because of this type of behavior.

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Speaker 1: So I you know, like I said, I hope to

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Speaker 1: have of a more robust conversation with Ari about this

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Speaker 1: because I think he will. He's willing to have thoughtful

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Speaker 1: conversations like this about you know, this is this is

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Speaker 1: no way to do This is no way to governor country.

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Speaker 1: We cannot keep having this mindset. We are just going

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Speaker 1: to keep going down the road that we've been going

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Speaker 1: down for the last ten years. One other topic I

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Speaker 1: want to get to before we get to my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Lindsay Draft and the future of third party politics,

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Speaker 1: independent politics in this country. Andrew Cuomo, we are three

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Speaker 1: June twenty fourth, We're going to have the New York

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Speaker 1: City Democratic primary, and in probably the winner of the

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Speaker 1: primary probably is the next mayor. I say probably Eric

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Speaker 1: Adams and company is running on an independent line. Things

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Speaker 1: have happened, but you have a primary that looks like

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Speaker 1: it's going to be fairly competitive with Cuomo one and

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Speaker 1: a progressive candidate coming close but probably coming up short.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say, and you've heard me with

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Speaker 1: some a couple of these interviews I've had with New

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Speaker 1: York City Members of Congress Dan Goldman, who is not

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Speaker 1: supporting Cuomo, Richie Torres, who is supporting Cuomo. I didn't

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if there's an enthusiastic amount

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Speaker 1: of support for Cuomo, but there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who are looking at the options and going, well,

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Speaker 1: what choice do we have? Cuomo's might be the most competent,

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Speaker 1: even if it's not clear whether he deserves this access

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Speaker 1: or not. And that's that's where I want to get

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Speaker 1: at something. So Cuoma did this interview at the Times.

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Speaker 1: He hasn't done many interviews, but he did this interview

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Speaker 1: at the Times. And there were two things that stuck

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Speaker 1: out to me on this interview. One had to do

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Speaker 1: with him admitting that he hadn't lived in New York

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Speaker 1: City since he was thirty two. He's now sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: so it's been thirty five years since he had a

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Speaker 1: domicile in New York City until the last six months.

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Speaker 1: You know, yes, you know, it's not as if Cuomo

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Speaker 1: isn't of New York City. You know, he worked on

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Speaker 1: his dad's campaign for mayor that was unsuccessful in seventy seven, certainly,

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Speaker 1: and he said he lived there till he was thirty two,

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Speaker 1: until he ended up in the Clinton administration. But I

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Speaker 1: that's a you know, that that could leave a mark.

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Speaker 1: If if the the candidates that have lived in New

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Speaker 1: York City longer than six months are likely to make

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Speaker 1: an issue of that, that could that could matter. That

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Speaker 1: could matter. Although I just don't think anybody's going to

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Speaker 1: think Cuomo's not a New Yorker, right given how how

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, he's just a part of the

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Speaker 1: of the of the fabric of New York on that front.

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Speaker 1: But it was something else he said that I think

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Speaker 1: deserves a little more. He said he regrets resigning, and

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Speaker 1: it gets me to something. You know what, He's right,

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Speaker 1: he shouldn't have resigned. But I have a different reason

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Speaker 1: why he shouldn't have resigned because we did not get

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Speaker 1: closure on whether what he was accused of doing is

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Speaker 1: something he did. He said he chose to resign to

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Speaker 1: avoid an impeachment process, that he chose to resign to

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Speaker 1: avoid the distractions to governing that would have created the

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Speaker 1: Attorney general. Leticia James came out with a scathing report

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Speaker 1: and you know, just to take you back into that moment, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, the allegations emerge. You know, in in mid March,

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Speaker 1: he was still you know, a majority of New Yorker

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Speaker 1: said no, they didn't want him to resign. Then on August,

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Speaker 1: that was March of twenty twenty one, so it was

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Speaker 1: sitting out there. Then you had various leaks of different

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Speaker 1: women coming out in different media reports, but his numbers,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, you know, there were you know,

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Speaker 1: his personal fable ratings went down. It was very similar

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Speaker 1: to what Bill Clinton happened to Bill Clinton in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: But there was a there was a chunk of New

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Speaker 1: Yorkers that are like, no, he should stay governor. Then

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Speaker 1: Letitia James releases her report on August third, and the

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Speaker 1: next day Maris comes out with a poll and it

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Speaker 1: was fifty nine percent of New Yorkers thought Quoma should resigned.

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Speaker 1: Fifty two percent of Democrats thought the same thing. By

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Speaker 1: a few days later, as more people absorbed the information,

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Speaker 1: a Quinnipiac poll had the number up to seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of New Yorkers who wanted him to resign, and basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, within a week he were to resigned and

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Speaker 1: he was out. Here's what we didn't get. And this

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Speaker 1: is where I think. I think these these forced resignations

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Speaker 1: of democratically small d democratic elected officials without a full

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Speaker 1: accounting of what they did when you resign in disgrace,

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Speaker 1: I think we need to have and this is something

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Speaker 1: that would probably take constitutional amendments in some states, but

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Speaker 1: I think that there should be an extra penalty if

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Speaker 1: you resign in disgrace before the end of your term.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't be allowed to immediately come back and run

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Speaker 1: for another office. Right if you resign in order to

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Speaker 1: avoid an ethics investigation in the House or the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Right if that's what happens. Literally, if the Ethics Committee

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Speaker 1: has opened a probe on a member of Congress and

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Speaker 1: that member of Congress decides to resign, the probe is dropped. Right,

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Speaker 1: So then all you have are the allegations which do

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Speaker 1: stick to that, but there's no sort of due process

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Speaker 1: for the individual. Now you could argue they would have

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Speaker 1: had due process, that they'd chosen to go through the process. Well,

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Speaker 1: that brings me to Andrew Cuomo. So these allegations come out,

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Speaker 1: there is no you know, in some ways, there's no

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Speaker 1: We have not had them litigated under oath. Had there

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Speaker 1: been an impeachment proceeding in the New York legislature, there'd

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Speaker 1: have been a trial and we would have at least

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Speaker 1: been able to let the public decide whether or not

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Speaker 1: he should he should, you know, with all the evidence

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Speaker 1: out there. But this was you know, so in some

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Speaker 1: ways you know I this, you know this, And sometimes

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Speaker 1: the media plays a role in this, right, which is

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Speaker 1: to sort of create the drum beat to just force

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Speaker 1: these individuals out, when that is the worst thing for

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Speaker 1: the democracy. We need to air the dirty laundry. In

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Speaker 1: some ways, the impeachment proceedings of Bill Clinton and Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: while horrendous perhaps to watch and certainly created a lot

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Speaker 1: of acrimony and dysfunction in the country, was also a loot.

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Speaker 1: Was also an education of the process for the country,

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Speaker 1: and so it gave them an idea, Okay, what is

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Speaker 1: serious and what isn't you know? In fact, I think

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Speaker 1: going through the impeachment process cured voters of the idea that,

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Speaker 1: you know, how much should character impact whether someone should

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Speaker 1: stay in office or not. And of course we have

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Speaker 1: selective outrage when it comes to character. If we're mad

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Speaker 1: at somebody about something else, then we look for a

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Speaker 1: character excuse in order to get rid of him. I

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Speaker 1: would argue that Andrew Cuomo, you know he was at

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Speaker 1: first it looked like he was handling COVID Well. I

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Speaker 1: think now history shows that he didn't do the best

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Speaker 1: job that was possible there and certainly seemed to worry

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Speaker 1: more about his self image during the COVID thing than

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Speaker 1: actually getting stuff done. But we didn't. We didn't have

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Speaker 1: So I think he's right. He shouldn't have resigned. And

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Speaker 1: I think this of everybody I went through, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go through some. We've of all the people since

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty that have statewide governors that have resigned while

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Speaker 1: in office. You've had John Rowland of Connecticut who just

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Speaker 1: got a pardon from Donald Trump, Jim McGreevy in New

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Speaker 1: Jersey who basically resign due to an extra mental affair,

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Speaker 1: Robert Bentley in Alabama in twenty seventeen, he resigned due

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Speaker 1: to an extra medical affair. John Kitzeber of Oregon resigned

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Speaker 1: early because he didn't want more information about an extra

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Speaker 1: marital affair. Eric Brighten's essentially very similar things in named

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Speaker 1: crew Cuomo, but all of them essentially ducked an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to defend themselves. And to me, if you resign in disgrace,

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Speaker 1: we really there should be an extra penal. We should

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Speaker 1: be forcing due process for the voter. Right, it is

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Speaker 1: that the voter deserves a full accounting and a full story.

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Speaker 1: And it's also not fair to that potentially disgraced politician

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Speaker 1: that the innuendo and accusations, because when you resign, then

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Speaker 1: everybody believes it. Right, If Andrew Cuomo believes he was railroaded,

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Speaker 1: then why did he resign? Right the minute he resigned,

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Speaker 1: he ended up essentially con confirming the entire report. Now

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Speaker 1: he may believe he wasn't doing that by resigning, but

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Speaker 1: as far as a majority of the New York public,

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Speaker 1: that's the message he was sending. Well, she got me,

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Speaker 1: when maybe society would have been better served to like,

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Speaker 1: let's let's get the detail of the allegations out there

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Speaker 1: and if it's too again, if it's too embarrassing for you,

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Speaker 1: then you want to resign early. You have put the

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Speaker 1: state in a bind. You sometimes resignation forces a special

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Speaker 1: election sometimes resignation, so there should be a higher penalty,

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Speaker 1: and that penalty should be a six year ban, an

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Speaker 1: eight year ban, a ten year ban from running for

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Speaker 1: any office in that state. Again because the Andrew Cuomo campaign.

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Speaker 1: Here we are he resigns in twenty one. Now he's

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Speaker 1: running for marin twenty five, and we don't know, we

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Speaker 1: don't really have the full accounting. We know why I resigned,

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Speaker 1: we know what he was accused of. He denies some

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Speaker 1: of it, but we've not had a formal, a formal

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Speaker 1: process to sort of litigate this and to hear his

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Speaker 1: side of the story under oath rather than his side

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Speaker 1: of the story via via political campaigning. You know, I

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Speaker 1: mean it is you look at the Senate resignations. The

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Speaker 1: most egregious is clearly the Al Frankin one where Al

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Speaker 1: Franklin was basically forced to resign by his own party

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Speaker 1: all because Chuck Schumer wanted to win the Alabama Senate race,

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Speaker 1: right if the Alabama Senate race doesn't happen. And you

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Speaker 1: know it was also loud calls by Senator Kirsten Jillibrand

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Speaker 1: was the first she was getting ready to run for president.

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Speaker 1: You know, so there was a lot of political factors

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Speaker 1: outside of Franken's control. But what we never got and

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Speaker 1: Franken went ahead and resigned, but we never got a

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Speaker 1: full accounting of the ethics committee. That's not fair to Franken,

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Speaker 1: nor is that fair to the voters of Minnesota. But again,

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Speaker 1: all that was done because in the moment, Democrats were

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Speaker 1: trying to embarrass Roy Moore in Alabama and that mess,

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Speaker 1: and they wanted to look cleaner than the Republicans, and

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Speaker 1: you know, essentially they sacrificed Franken in order to get

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Speaker 1: a Senate seat for Doug Jones. You might say that

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Speaker 1: was politically smart, What was that really good for the process?

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Speaker 1: Was that really good for democracy? And does that really

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Speaker 1: increase trust in politicians anyway? I just it was it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting thought experiment. I agree with Cuomo, but

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Speaker 1: not for the reasons perhaps he thought he shouldn't have resigned.

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Speaker 1: He really I think it would have been better for everybody,

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Speaker 1: better for Cuomo, better for the voters, better for the

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Speaker 1: for the institutions, had you actually let the impeachment process

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Speaker 1: play out. But sometimes we're in such a hurry to

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Speaker 1: sort of move on to the next story that that

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Speaker 1: becomes this sort of feeding frenzy. The press plays a role,

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Speaker 1: pundits player role, people just looking to move up in power,

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Speaker 1: lieutenant governors wanting to become governor. There becomes all of

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Speaker 1: this rather than realizing, you know what's in the this

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Speaker 1: was a duly small de democratic elected official. So if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna we probably should take take those take those

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Speaker 1: elections a bit more seriously, take the voters a bit

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Speaker 1: more seriously, and not just sort of force somebody out.

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Speaker 1: So you have all these appointed people in power who

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Speaker 1: weren't put there by the voters. So anyway, I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: I'd love your reaction to this. Send me a note

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Speaker 1: on this, Ashta look at thechucktodcast dot com. If about

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Speaker 1: my idea that resigning in disgrace, resigning to avoid an

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Speaker 1: ethics committee, and resigning to avoid an impeachment process with

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Speaker 1: your legislature should automatically trigger a five or ten year

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Speaker 1: ban from running for office after that, you shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: able to do that essentially to avoid scrutiny and then

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Speaker 1: get to come back into public life without having to

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Speaker 1: sort of go through go through that process you broke,

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Speaker 1: You potentially broke a trust with the voters. You ought

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Speaker 1: to have to be forced to see it through and

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Speaker 1: explain to the voters why or why not that that

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Speaker 1: trust was voting. All right. So, now that I've put

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Speaker 1: you in the mood of really loving the two parties

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Speaker 1: these days, enjoy my conversation with a third alternative. Lindsay

430
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: Draft of the Poet Party and joining me now is

431
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: the head of the Forward Party. I believe the title

432
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: is CEO, not party chair. And we're going to discuss exactly.

433
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: Forward Party was started by Andrew Yang. It's merged with

434
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: an organization that Christy Whitman, the former Republican governor of

435
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: New Jersey's been involved with. Essentially, it's a whole group

436
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: of people concerned about that the two major parties aren't

437
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: answering the call here and for those of you, I

438
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: hear it all the time. Is there another way? Well,

439
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: I think Lindsay's here to make the case that Forward

440
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: could be that other way. The question is what is it?

441
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: Is it a party? Is it a movement? Is it

442
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: a reform project? These are the questions I hope she

443
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: answers with us today. Lindsay, nice to see you.

444
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 2: Great to be here, Chuck, thanks for having me. All right,

445
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: let's do the elevator pitch.

446
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 1: So, meaning you tell somebody I'm with the Forward Party,

447
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: They say, what is that? What do you say?

448
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: We are a new political party in the United States

449
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: that is an ideologically inclusive movement working to reduce toxic

450
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: polarization and extremism by introducing competition into the political arena.

451
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: Somebody whose next question might very well be, well, are

452
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: you red or blue?

453
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're neither. We're purple. We're purple. Okay, But

454
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: you know what.

455
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: Does that mean? Are you centrist? Are you independent?

456
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, so we are independent. We are independent.

457
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: And the reason why I don't love the word centrist

458
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: is I think that it has become a catch all

459
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: for people who are committed to pragmatism and common sense solutions.

460
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: So if you are not an extremist on the left

461
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: or the right, then you must be a centrist. But

462
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: what a lot of American voters kind of equate centrism

463
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: with or moderation is that there's actually that you lack

464
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: conviction on particular issues. And so what I really want

465
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: to encourage people to do is to kind of shake

466
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: off this idea that all policy solutions are either decidedly

467
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: progress or decidedly conservative, and in fact, a party and

468
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: individuals within a party can explore all sorts of new

469
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: innovative solutions to policy issues outside of that idea, that

470
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 2: kind of you know, binary access there. So what does

471
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: it look like if we triangulate the whole thing and

472
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: really focus on an independent party?

473
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: So look, it is this is one of those things

474
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: where you would say the market really demands this, absolutely,

475
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: but there are real barriers to entry, right that this

476
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: is a there is a strong duopoly in here, and

477
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: if the Republican Party and their Democratic Party were businesses

478
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,239
Speaker 1: that were regulated by the federal government, I have a

479
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: feeling they would be charged with operating a duopoly. But

480
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: that obviously those that are in charge are members of

481
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: this duopoly.

482
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: Literally, the FEC, the Federal elegentc Commission, is made half

483
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: of Republicans and half of Democrats.

484
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: So it is not necessarily a fair arbiter of anything

485
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: that's outside the two major parties, And I guess that

486
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: would be my You know, it is so obvious that

487
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: there's a vacuum here, and there is a lot of

488
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: cynicism that anybody can fill it because we've seen we've

489
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: seen attempts like this multiple times. What gives you faith,

490
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: what gives you hope that this time is different? Well,

491
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 1: first of all, I think that we are an unprecedented

492
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: moment in American history right now that will allow for

493
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: this sort of innovation to come to light. Fifty one

494
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: percent of Americans last summer, Pew tracked at the high

495
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: water mark were registered as independents or unaffiliated voters. You

496
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: have people leaving the two party system in droves. Sixty

497
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: five percent of Americans say they do want a new

498
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: political party. And you post the question earlier, Chuck, about

499
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: is this a movement? Is this a party?

500
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: And what I would say is this is a movement

501
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: of people, but we are deploying that movement through the

502
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: vehicle of a political party, because that's how we run

503
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 2: candidates in the United States. And you talked about that

504
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: barrier for entry that the duopoly has created, and secretaries

505
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: of states and election boards around the country wear jerseys.

506
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 2: They wear red and blue jerseys, and when more competition

507
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: has come to the table, they've raised that barrier for

508
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: entry time and time again. In fact, in New York,

509
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: one of our the legacy organization that merged with US,

510
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: the Serve America Movement. They achieved ballot access in both

511
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: New York State and in Connecticut, and they ran candidates

512
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: for governor in both states. When the Democratic Legislature convened

513
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: the following year in New York, they went, oh, gosh,

514
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: those guys got really close. We better raise the barrier

515
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: for entry. And they raised it such that actually it

516
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: knocked off not only the Serve America Movement party, but

517
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: it knocked off the Green Party and the Libertarians off

518
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: the ballot as well.

519
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: What do you mean they raised in the threshold of

520
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: what you have to meet to get automatic to avoid

521
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: having to do petition signatures to get on the battle yep.

522
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: So they raise a threshold for signatures and also introduced

523
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: a requirement that you had to run a candidate for

524
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: President of the United States in order to be a

525
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: recognized party in the state. So that you know that

526
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: continual moving of a the ligne is why we are

527
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: deploying this movement through a political party, because independents face

528
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: a much more significant barrier to entry running by themselves.

529
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: The other thing that political parties do is they provide infrastructure.

530
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: You know, anytime anyone's knocked on your door, they've probably

531
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: gotten your address and your voter registration from their political party.

532
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: Anytime you get an email and it asks you to

533
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: click here and you use Act blue or Win red,

534
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: those are payment processors that are are built by the

535
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: Republican and the Democratic parties. Anytime someone texts you to

536
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: get out the vote and says, you know, go, you know,

537
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: go vote for Glenn Youngkin, I know you're in Virginia, chut,

538
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: that text processor is paid for by a Republican Party effort.

539
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: So we need to build the infrastructure to support independently

540
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: minded candidates across the country. And that's what we're doing.

541
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: So what does success look like in ten years? Is

542
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: it that the Forward Party is one of the two

543
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: major parties or that the two major parties that we

544
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: know of today have reformed in response to the Forward

545
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: Party successes.

546
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean success for us in ten years is

547
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: a functional and representative government that's responsive to its voters.

548
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: Where we have actually seen a shift in incentives in

549
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: terms of the way our elected officials behave and respond

550
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: to voters. Right now, the incentive system right now is

551
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: focused on a very very small swath of the electorate,

552
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: a very progressive swath of the electorate, and a maga

553
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: swath of the electorate because of closed party primaries that

554
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: lock out competition and lockout independent voters. So a combination

555
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: of introducing a new political party that runs, new candidates

556
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: for office that are incentivized to be responsive to, a

557
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: broader swap of the electorate, structural changes that open up

558
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: our primary system. Those things together will allow for a

559
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: representative and responsive government that is not gridlocked the way

560
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: we see government now. And you know, we talk a

561
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: lot about Washington, d C. You and I are here

562
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: in d C. But I'm talking about it in state

563
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: houses across the country as well, completely gridlocked, you know,

564
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: driven by partisan politics. We are building this party from

565
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: the ground up, Chuck, which means I get to go

566
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: around the country and meet incredible candidates or municipal seats

567
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: for you know, mayors, city councils, school boards, and they

568
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: just want to serve their communities. So success for us

569
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: would be to create a movement and infrastructure that allows

570
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: people to serve their communities authentically at the federal level,

571
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: at the state wide level, in communities. And that might

572
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: mean it might mean a durable and lasting third party.

573
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: It might mean a more responsive and functional two party system,

574
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: but I think that we have to we have to

575
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: introduce competition through a third vehicle in order to realize

576
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: one or those other two things. So this they're not

577
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: going to do. They're not going to do it by themselves.

578
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: Give me a little bit of the origin story here

579
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: for everything, because I know Andrew Yang's basically started this

580
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: party after twenty twenty, yeah, and then I know there

581
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: was emerging and I hope I got it right with

582
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: what Christy Whitman was doing. So walk me through sort

583
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: of what it was that Yang started and what it

584
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: is today. What's the additive?

585
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: So I will talk to folks a lot about hows

586
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: and whys. There are a number of organizations around the

587
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: country that share a similar why. You know, we want

588
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: we want to reduce extremism, we want to reduce toxic polarization.

589
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: How we go about it, chief that is a little

590
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: bit different. What levers do we pull to get there?

591
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: So Andrew Yang started the Forward Party, and he wanted

592
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: to disrupt the duopoly by creating a new political party,

593
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: in large part to elect people who were fans of

594
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: non partisan structural democracy reforms. So I talked about our

595
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: primary system. So what does it look like to open

596
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: up our primary system? What does it look like to

597
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: introduce innovations like brant choice voting, non partisan primaries, things

598
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: that we've seen adopted in places like Alaska, Maine, Washington State, California.

599
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: The introduction of those reforms means that you're challenging the

600
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: status quo. You're challenging the power structures of current elected officials.

601
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: So Andrew's you know theory of change is that well,

602
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: if you if you launch a movement of people that

603
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: elect people into positions of power with a different incentive structure,

604
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: they can pass these uh you know, these these reforms.

605
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: So there was a group called the Serve America Movement.

606
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: I referenced their work in New York and Connecticut, and

607
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: they also had a similar theory of change, which was

608
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: disrupting the duopoly, uh, you know, through through a new

609
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: political party. Their executive director was a guy named David Jolly,

610
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: who was a Republican member of Congress. David's been in

611
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: the news lately because he actually has become a Democrat.

612
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: He's become a Democrat. He's going to run for governor

613
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: in Florida as a Democrat. And then there was a

614
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: group called the Renew America Movement UH where Governor Whitman

615
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: was and and that group their acronym was RAM, you know,

616
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: it was their theory of a change was how do

617
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: we It was more of a communication strategy, So how

618
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: do we hold up a mirror to bad actors? And

619
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: then potentially what does it look like to galvanize folks

620
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: who were in the Republican Party who were not excited

621
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: about the Mega movement. So the fact that our origin

622
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: story is one of merger and alignment, I think is

623
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: really really important as we go out to do the

624
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: work because.

625
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: We'se right, wh what we're wanting out of our government?

626
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely sure. I mean I always say politics was invented

627
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: by humans to you know, resolve disputes without violence, right,

628
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 1: which meant not everybody gets what it gets everything they want.

629
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: That that's what political are. Real good political decision usually means.

630
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: You have to walk into a room willing to give

631
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: something up.

632
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think so that the President that that

633
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: merger set was really important for us, and it's continued

634
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 3: as a real es central part of our ethos.

635
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: Christy Whitman and Andrew Yang co chairs. And what's the

636
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: role of Kerry Heally, the former Republican Lieutenant governor of Massachusetts,

637
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: Romney's one time running mate on the statewide level. What

638
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: what is is she also a chair of this or

639
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: how does that?

640
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: Such? So so? A gentleman not by the name of

641
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: Michael Wilner was also a founding co chair along with

642
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: Christy and Andrew. We kind of frank and boarded the

643
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: Forward Board when it was founded. So we had four

644
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: members of each of the Legacy Board come together with Michael,

645
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: Christy and Andrews serving as equal co chairs. Certainly, you

646
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: know Christy and Andrew having you know, big externally facing personalities,

647
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: people who knew them. They had name recognition and brand

648
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 2: I d. They did a lot of externally facing work.

649
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: In the last two and a half years, almost three

650
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: years since the merger, we've expanded our board with intentionality.

651
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: Some of the former board members from the legacy organizations

652
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: have rolled off. New board members have come on, and

653
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: as we have leaned into a collective brand and a

654
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: collective culture, we asked Carry Healy to take over his

655
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: executive chair because she's not from one of the three

656
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: legacy organizations.

657
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: Chair of the board.

658
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's the executive chair of the board. Yeah. And

659
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: Carrie's fantastic. She took over as president of Babson College,

660
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: and I'm going to watch the numbers a little bit,

661
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: but it was they were in the kind of sub

662
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: one hundred rankings of colleges and universities around the country

663
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: and when she left there like number two, and so

664
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: I just kept saying to her, well, that's fine, just

665
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 2: do that with forward. You know, we're the third political

666
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: party right now before yeah, after you take us. So, yeah,

667
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: you take over and we'll be the first.

668
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, second to none. Eight. I remember Avis used to

669
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: do a whole thing. They were always number two to Hurtz,

670
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: and they decided we're second to none. But it was

671
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: eart of their way. They embraced the we're number two,

672
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: but we're second to none. I always thought that was

673
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: over we're second to none. Very clever Madison Avenue campaign.

674
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: So give me the goal for the midterms?

675
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: Is it?

676
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: And you know, I remember Andrew I interviewed him about oh,

677
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: I want to say, eighteen months ago, and he talked

678
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: about the role he wanted to play in the twenty

679
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: twenty four election was hey, if we can recruit candidates

680
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: on the local level, state rep, State Senate, school board,

681
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: city council. That he wasn't really focused on Congress at

682
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: all or Senate. It was really much lower because he believed, hey,

683
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: you know, if we can just if we have sort

684
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: of more local candidates and it actually has a better

685
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: chance to the message can go more locally viral and

686
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: be more authentic. Is this time are you trying to

687
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: go to congressional and statewide races this time?

688
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: Yes? And the strategy that you're referencing last cycle was

689
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: our reverse coattail strategy. So we had to do a

690
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: lot of kind of debunking of what we weren't check

691
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. We are not running a candidate

692
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: for president, We are not a third party spoiler. We

693
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: are not a platform for Andrew Yang to run for

694
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 2: president again. So there was a lot of what we

695
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: aren't and then we had to get very specific about

696
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: what we are, and we are a movement that is

697
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: building from the ground up, and the best way to

698
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: do party building is to coalesce around state and local candidates.

699
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: So this concept of a reverse coattail strategy is that

700
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: it's been proven, is that if you have disaffected voters,

701
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: and in the twenty twenty four election, you know, we

702
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: talked a lot about double doubters, people who weren't excited

703
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: about Trump or Harris at the top of the ticket.

704
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: If you had disaffected voters and double doubters who were

705
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: not inclined to show up on election day, but someone

706
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: was running for office in their own community, they were

707
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: much more likely to go out and actually vote for

708
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: that member of their community. And once there and once

709
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: in the polling place, the books that were motivated by

710
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: community leadership were more likely to vote for the pro

711
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: democracy candidates towards the top of the ticket and for

712
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 2: federal seats and for president. So that was a way

713
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: for us to both help turn out pro democracy voters

714
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: during the twenty twenty four election and also do authentic

715
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: party building from the ground up. At the beginning of

716
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: the segment check you said, you know, my title now

717
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: is CEO. If I do my job right, I will

718
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: no longer be a CEO, and instead there will be

719
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: a party chairman that is elected by our members of

720
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: our party members from around the country. And so as

721
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 2: we look to twenty twenty eight. So you asked about

722
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: ten year horizons and ten year goals twenty six and

723
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: twenty eight. In twenty twenty eight, we are going to

724
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: go to the Federal Election Commission and apply for federal

725
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: party status. In order to do that, they give you

726
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: a menu of requirements that you you have to fulfill

727
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: in order to get federal party status. Running candidates for

728
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: federal office on a ballot line is one of the requirements.

729
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 2: Having an ongoing.

730
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: Specific amount, you know, to get you know, do you

731
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: have to be in twenty five states that you've done this.

732
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: It's big, it's a vague, so it's fake. So we

733
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: are we are wanting to run federal candidates for office

734
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: because we have to to apply for federal party recognition,

735
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: because we want to have an impact in Congress, because

736
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: we want to contribute members who are going to caucus

737
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: together and vote in a way that is is you know,

738
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: it's it's that they're voting with integrity and that they're

739
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: voting and serving in a way that's representative of a

740
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 2: collective set of values and principles that the majority of

741
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: Americans share. And so we are we're very bullish about

742
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: looking at seats in twenty six and also mapping up

743
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: to twenty eight to run those those federal candidates. And

744
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: the wonderful thing is it is it's a it's a

745
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: it's a bottom up, top down, you know strategy that

746
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: we're looking towards in twenty twenty six. You know, if

747
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: we have an opportunity to run a candidate against an

748
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: extremist who is you know, someone who's an obstructionist in Congress,

749
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: and we can run a fordist against that person, the

750
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: brand id and the inspiration for people down ballot, we

751
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: hope we'll get more people out and working. And similarly,

752
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: all the party building and the voter turnout that we

753
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: can do around down ballot candidates at the municipal level

754
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: will then serve those candidates that are running up at

755
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: the top of the ticket for federals.

756
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: So are you going to be targeting the single party

757
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: districts more often than the supposed swing districts, meaning like

758
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: eighty percent blue eighty percent red? That in some ways,

759
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: is that is that the better place for a forward

760
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: candidate to go.

761
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: I think I'm looking at as an and right now,

762
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: so a lot of the folks in our coalition in

763
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: the pro democracy space. They're looking at that for those

764
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: forty swing seats around the country, and in some of

765
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: those swing seats, there are bad actors who are obstructionists

766
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: and who are not serving in a way that we

767
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: think is alignment in alignment with our principles and our values.

768
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 2: So if we can go after some of those extremists

769
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: and coalition with partners where we have ballot access and

770
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: we can use a forward ballot line to run to

771
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: run by partisan, pragmatic focused candidate, we're thrilled to But

772
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: these ones, you know, these these uncompetitive seats, or what

773
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: I think is really exciting and what people aren't really

774
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: talking about, which is, you know, eighty seven percent of

775
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 2: Congress is decidedly you know, those districts are rud or blue.

776
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: There's no competition.

777
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: Most state legislative race, I mean, Virginia absol. Virginia's Assembly

778
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: is a classic like fifty to fifties, you know, on

779
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: a knife's edge, you know, and there's only like, out

780
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: of thee hundred seats, like ten seats that are competitive,

781
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: Like there's only ten thirty five on each side.

782
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 4: I think that are that are almost unopposed, you know, yeah,

783
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 4: which is actually why we're running candidates for the state

784
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 4: legislature in Virginia this year because they have off yer elections,

785
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 4: and we did exactly that.

786
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: We focused only on in two congressional districts Virginia five

787
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 2: and six, that are decidedly read. You know, these are

788
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: like R plus twelve districts. So those down ballot seats

789
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: and those legislative seats see no competition, and the Democratic

790
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: Party is effectively seated any opportunity to run candidates against that.

791
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: And you see the same thing in blue states like Massachusetts,

792
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: where the Republican Party no longer has I mean, who

793
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 2: would support Charlie Baker right Like? I mean, I don't

794
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 2: mean that from a voter's perspective. Lots of voters would

795
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: he left with like sixty four percent approval rating that

796
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: there's no infrastructure to actually build a bench of candidates

797
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 2: that could level up to a Republican gubernatorial candidate in Massachusetts.

798
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: So those are places where we're really really excited and

799
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: where we're seeing a lot of traction. Utah is a

800
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 2: great example of a place where we're seeing a ton

801
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: of traction because there's no competition from the Democratic Party there.

802
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: How many states, right now do you have major part

803
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: did you do? What do you call it? Just major

804
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: party status or party status? How does that?

805
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: What party status? Party status?

806
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: How many states study of official status? Because I know

807
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: it's different. Every state has its own set of rules.

808
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Four plus Connecticut where we have party status in

809
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: a series of townships. Got so, yeah, so we've got

810
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 2: we have Canada. We have BAID access in Florida, South Carolina, Utah,

811
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: and Colorado. So not only can you register as a

812
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: member of the Ford Party as a voter in those

813
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: states is a ballot line and you can run for

814
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: office on that ballot line in those states.

815
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: So Virginia that you don't have this. So how does

816
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: a Virginia Forward candidate going to appear on the ballot

817
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: as an independent? As an independent?

818
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: It's interesting as an independent? Now they can identify in

819
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 2: Virginia as a Fordists on the ballot, but we don't

820
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: actually have ballot access.

821
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. Can put it independent and you can

822
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: say Forward parties, Well.

823
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: That's fusion voting. They can identify themselves as Forward when

824
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 2: they petition onto the ballot, but we don't formally have

825
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: ballot acts.

826
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: And in a minute, but yeah, so just since we're

827
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: both very familiar with Virginia, what would it take for

828
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: you to get party status in Virginia? What are their

829
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 1: roles specifically?

830
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 2: So it's a signature collection campaign, similar to a lot

831
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: of states. So you have to collect signatures that are

832
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: verified signatures, which means you have to collect many more signatures.

833
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: Than is it each cycle? How many times you have

834
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: to do this to prove party status?

835
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 2: You only have to do it once. But then it's

836
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: a it's a percentage of the voter voter turnout, so

837
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: you have to turn out a particular percentage of the voters.

838
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: With what state wide with a state wide candidate.

839
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: With a state wide candidate, and.

840
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it's governor or senate or lieutenant

841
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: governor attorney general or is that vague in the rules.

842
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: No, it's not vague in the rules. It's vague in

843
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: my memory. So I to look at it, Chuck, But

844
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: I got it.

845
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to play yet multiple you know,

846
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: multiple choice here. But I'm just trying to give people

847
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: an understanding of just how this is not going to

848
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: be easy, even though there is such a probably you know,

849
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: if you did a poll and say hey, should this

850
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: party be on the ballot? Very seventy plus percent would say, yeah,

851
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you want that party on the ballot, Like

852
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: it's a it's one of these no brainer ideas that

853
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: doesn't it's hard to execute.

854
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It's hard to it's hard to execute,

855
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: but it's not impossible. And as we said before, you know,

856
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: the two parties have done an incredible job pulling up

857
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: the ladder behind them and making sure that we're not

858
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 2: able to access the ballots and introduce competition. But it is.

859
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: It's navigable. You just have to understand the nuances of

860
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: each state. You have to study the laws of each state.

861
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: They're constantly changing. Filing deadlines are changing, signature requirements are changing,

862
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: so and you have to do that fifty times over.

863
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: Certain states have really low signature thresholds, like Louisiana is

864
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: only five hundred, but then they've got a really high

865
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: voter threshold for a position of statewide. You need the

866
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: following here.

867
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this when we were having an

868
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 1: off the record earlier. You know, you really need because

869
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: you guys aren't Libertarians or Green Party or anything like that,

870
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: or working families, but they're having to deal with the

871
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: same obstacles you're dealing with. And it almost feels like

872
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: our democratic infrastructure needs an ACLU that you know, like,

873
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, look God by a c l You always

874
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: say this. Everybody, you know, everybody is thankful with the

875
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: a c l U is there for them, right, They're

876
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: usually not crazy about what they do until they're suddenly

877
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: needing protection, right and somebody fighting for their speech rights.

878
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: But because let's talk about the open primaries, I don't

879
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: see how if my tax dollars are being used to

880
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: pay for an election, why then the state can bar

881
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: prevent my ability to vote in that primary? Right because

882
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: I'm not a member of a private club. You know,

883
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: you've told me this is a private club. And at

884
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: the same time you're using public funds. This feels like

885
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: how it feels like partisan primaries that are funded by

886
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: the state are all unconstitutional And I don't understand how

887
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: that that there, that is that is even allowed. Now

888
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: where are you guys? I know you're part of you know,

889
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: one of your goals is to open up primaries. Obviously,

890
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: what is the legal route here to sort of is

891
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: there a legal way to get rid of partisan primaries.

892
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: I know there's attempts to change the laws in these states,

893
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: but is it possible that that there's a case that

894
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: partisan primaries funded by tax dollars are unconstitutional?

895
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: I think absolutely. We just Governor Whitman, you know, as

896
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: the former governor of New Jersey, just signed on to

897
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 2: another another letter related to the banning of fusion voting

898
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: in New Jersey. So there's a there's been an ongoing

899
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 2: legal case there about the fact that it was not

900
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,959
Speaker 2: constitutional to ban fusion voting.

901
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: And let me do that. Some people may be wondering

902
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: fusion voting, what do we mean in a handful of states.

903
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: It's mostly in the northeast, correct me if I'm wrong,

904
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 1: where you can be on the ballot line in multiple

905
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: multiple states. New York, the politicians have used this to

906
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: survive primaries in years past. You have various the Conservative

907
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: Party that Republicans would always have an extra ballot line.

908
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: Democrats usually worked with something called working families, and you'd

909
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: have these multiple where literally you could appear. There was

910
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: an Independence Party in New York. I don't know what

911
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: the status that they are, because to me, they should

912
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: be a forward party chapter at this point. If they

913
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: still exist because I think they were part of the

914
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: old Parole Reform Party network, but where you could appear

915
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: on the ballot in multiple on multiple lines, so literally

916
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: your name would be on there twice. And what was it.

917
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 1: I want to say, It's like New Jersey, Connecticut, New York.

918
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: It's mostly New England states if memory serves.

919
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny that Independence Party in New York. The

920
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: woman who used to lead that effort, named Jackie Salet

921
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: is on our board and she's one of the most

922
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: preeminent experts on independent voting trends and ballid Actually she

923
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: is around the country and she talks about when Bloomberg

924
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: came to the Independence Party asking for ballot access and

925
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 2: what it looked like. And they had a really really asked,

926
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 2: rational deal that they struck with him, which was abolished

927
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: party primaries, launch a commission to pursue the abolishment of

928
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: party primaries UH in New York. And by doing that effectively,

929
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: she kind of knew she was going to put herself

930
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:19,479
Speaker 2: out of business, but she was motivated, you know, by

931
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: by a vision of good governance in order to do that.

932
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: And and he did put together a commission and it failed, unfortunately,

933
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: but they're they're doing it again in New York City

934
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: right now. There's a commission for open primaries and it's

935
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 2: been received really favorably, which is exciting.

936
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: So they just independent party in New York anymore.

937
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 2: I don't know if there is or not, because you.

938
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: When you said you didn't have I was surprised when

939
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: you said you didn't have party status in New York

940
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: because I thought there were some legacy manager basically, yeah, yeah,

941
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: there was.

942
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: Remember I took but five years ago they bumped a

943
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 2: bunch of the guys off of the ballot because of

944
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: their provision that you have to run a presidential candidate.

945
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: Now we have merged. So this this legacy of solidation

946
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: and uh and coalition building we have continued. We merged

947
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: with the Independence Party of South Carolina, so they were

948
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 2: they were kind enough to take our name and then

949
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: we actually took their ballot access there so Forard Party

950
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: of South Carolina merged Independence Party South Carolina. We merged

951
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: with the United Utah Party in Utah. We both already

952
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: had ballot access, but acknowledged that we could be so

953
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: much stronger by combining efforts. And these are also parties,

954
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: you know, the Independence Party of South Carolina, the United

955
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 2: You Taught Party are ideologically inclusive parties that are values

956
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: uh and principles based rather than single party or single

957
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: policy issue parties like the Green Party or the Libertarians.

958
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: So there's you know, there's a there's a lot of

959
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: diplomacy involved and a lot of trust involved and really

960
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: exploring what are you all about, what are you wanting

961
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: to accomplish? What sort of candidates will you run on

962
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: this ballot line? And I don't take that lightly. I

963
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: think the fact that that South Carolina, you know, they

964
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: were willing to hand that that line over to us

965
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: after they had stewarded it for so many years, was

966
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: a real exercise and trust.

967
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting with if you look at the

968
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: history of non major parties, how often converts from the

969
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: major parties essentially, you know, refugees from one of the

970
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: major parties have been foundational to the success or even

971
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: brief success right, you know, obviously Whigs, right, the Wigs

972
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: you Millard Fillmore, I think right, if I'm I think

973
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: was part of.

974
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: Is it Filmore? The free Soilers, Presoilers.

975
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: Or something like that, And you had obviously there's Teddy

976
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and in parole in some ways. I guess he

977
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: was always kind of an independent that kind of was

978
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: a Republican, but you know, uncomfortably so. And when he

979
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: started his thing, and obviously his wealth helped there. Nothing

980
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: would jump start you more than getting you know, you

981
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: got a lot of formers that are members of the

982
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: Forward Party right now, but some currents And I don't

983
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds

984
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: like you guys wouldn't mind somebody who said, yeah, I

985
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: caucus with the Republicans, but I'm a member of the

986
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: Forward Party and I'll be running as a Republican. I

987
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: caukd this with the Democrats, but I'm a member. You know,

988
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: I believe in the Forward Party and I also am

989
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: a member of the Democratic Party. Is that a future

990
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: you envision or do you envision it? I No, I'm

991
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: a member of the Forward Party, but I caucus with

992
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: this party for this cycle because they've they've agreed to

993
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: these to work on. I mean, what do you envision here?

994
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, let's say, in a perfect world, Lisa

995
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: Murkowski says, Hey, I'd love to be a member, but

996
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm also going to be running. Letting people know that

997
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: I'll be running and working with the Republicans. What what

998
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: what do you envision here in trying to recruit currents.

999
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they're there's both the practical aspect

1000
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 2: to what you're laying out, which is that in forty

1001
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: five states across the country, we don't have ballid access,

1002
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 2: so actually running someone as a forwardist is not possible.

1003
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: Now we could run someone as an independent with the

1004
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: support of the forward infrastructure, and we will be running

1005
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: that play many, many, many times over some real.

1006
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: Opportunities in twenty six I just you know, absolutely the

1007
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: governor's race in Michigan, where you have a former Democratic.

1008
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: Mink doug In.

1009
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,479
Speaker 1: He's awesome and he's really you know, there's a poll

1010
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: that I featured on my podcast last week that showed

1011
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 1: he was the only candidate for governor that had net

1012
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: positive ratings with Democrats, Republicans, and independents.

1013
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: He's amazing, He's well, you know, when you talk to

1014
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: Mike and his campaign too, he's talking about issues that

1015
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: are important in Michigan Anders and as the mayor of Detroit,

1016
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 2: he found that the two most resident issues that voters

1017
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: were concerned about were education and job creation. And so

1018
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: a lot of these big national themes that most Democratic

1019
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 2: candid are talking about, whether it's women's reproductive rights or

1020
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: gun violence prevention. He's just job creation and education, job creation, education,

1021
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: and it's what his community wanted to hear. But chuck

1022
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: back to the you know, kind of the affiliation way

1023
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: and what does it look like it is? So it's

1024
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: both practical and that we don't have ballid access in

1025
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 2: a lot of places. But I also think it speaks

1026
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: to our commitment to good governance over party affiliation. And

1027
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: so the idea that we would have full CRuMs that

1028
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 2: were forward, full CRuMs made up of Republicans, Democrats, independents,

1029
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 2: and Fordists is really unique. And we talked earlier about

1030
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 2: why why now in America and the idea that you

1031
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 2: would be party agnostic. You truly don't care if it

1032
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: is a comma R or a comedy or a Comma I,

1033
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: because you're committed to caucusing together and furthering legislation that

1034
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: you believe in that will help address the real issues

1035
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: of our country. That's the way we're approaching it right now.

1036
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: So if I look at a particular seat and there

1037
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: is a really compelling Republican and it's an R plus

1038
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 2: eight district and I don't have ballot access there. The

1039
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: threshold for an independent to get on the ballot is

1040
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: way too high. But a really principal, thoughtful Republican who

1041
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: wants to affiliate with the Forward Party and say I'm

1042
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: a Ford aligned Republican, we are all about supporting that person,

1043
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: you know, and they sign a candidate pledge committing to

1044
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: upholding our principles and it's very actions oriented.

1045
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, what did the Problem

1046
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: Solvers Caucus fail at? Because this was arguably what they

1047
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: tried to do, and what no labels tried to do

1048
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: was try to create this, you know. But it wasn't

1049
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: a party, right, but it was more of a hey,

1050
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: these groups promised that they would do this, and of

1051
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: course it never worked, right. The pressure of the party

1052
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: always pulled, you know, either the d's away or the

1053
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: RS away, depending on who was in charge of that

1054
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: congressional bill at that given time. How do you how

1055
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: do you prevent failure? How do you prevent a problem

1056
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: solver's caucus failure? Because it's been a failure. It's a

1057
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: noble idea, but it is not worked.

1058
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: You have to introduce individuals who aren't beholden to leadership

1059
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: of one of the other parties, you know, I mean,

1060
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's a it's a

1061
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 2: it's always a race for the majority. Their focus is

1062
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: going to be achieving a majority. And if that weren't

1063
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: the case, you know, Kevin McCarthy would still be Speaker

1064
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: of the House. You know, you would have had Democrats

1065
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: in the in the problem Solver's caucus actually come together

1066
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: with Republicans.

1067
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: They could vote for. They couldn't do it. Yeah, they

1068
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: didn't have the partisan protection, you know.

1069
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: But a Fordist could chuck and an independent could and

1070
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 2: if you.

1071
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: Have enough, you ran with that promise to voters, and

1072
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: voters in theory wouldn't punish that candidate for essentially not

1073
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: abiding by the Democratic Party or.

1074
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: The Republican Party. Yeah, it should be something that the

1075
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: voters are applauding. And you know you mentioned Senator More.

1076
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 2: I mean, she has built that level of trust with

1077
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 2: her constituent base where she can, you know, she can

1078
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: vote on things that she knows are right for Alaskans

1079
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 2: and vote against party leadership on certain things. She caucuses

1080
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 2: across the aisle. You know, Jared Golden is doing that

1081
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: in the House. Marie Gloosen camp Perez is doing that

1082
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: in the House. But what is a common thread between

1083
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: those three members of Congress is that they are all

1084
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: representing states with non partisan structural democracy reforms.

1085
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: Well, it is not an accident. It is so true,

1086
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: Angus King, Lisa Murkowski, John Curtis, Marie gluskut Perez, Jared Golden.

1087
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: You go through the list, David Valdeo in California all over,

1088
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: got to talk to correct right. Meanwhile, you got a

1089
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: guy like John Cornyn, who if he had the system

1090
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: of Alaska or Utah, he'd be untouchable.

1091
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: He'd unto artists absolutely.

1092
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 1: I mean, here's a guy who who really is And look,

1093
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: I you know, he's been a Republican his whole life.

1094
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: He can't think outside the Republican box because if he could,

1095
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: he could really be a trailblazer. But I get it.

1096
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: You know, people are who they are, right like you

1097
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: can't and he grew up in the party, so I

1098
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: don't want to. I sort of I get it. Okay's

1099
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: it's been good to him for his professional career, right,

1100
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: so I get his indecision to walk away. But his

1101
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: constituency is not inside the current makeup of the Texas

1102
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: Republican Party is constituency are more independent, you know, and

1103
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: sort of this, and yet he's got a structure in Texas.

1104
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: It's impossible for him to survive well.

1105
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: And look at three of his colleagues who who were

1106
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 2: able to serve in a way that is probably very

1107
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 2: aspirational for Senator Cornyn did so because they knew they

1108
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: were going down swinging. So Mitt Ronney heres in Cinema,

1109
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 2: Joe Manchin. They all knew they were retiring. And what

1110
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 2: did they do. They started to behave in exactly the

1111
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 2: same way that we're talking about. That the problem. The

1112
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 2: members the problem solver's caucus have not been able to

1113
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: behave that way because at the end of the day,

1114
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 2: they'll go back and they'll get primary.

1115
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,439
Speaker 1: They have their own politically, whatever it is comfort or

1116
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: security or write nothing. You know that they embrace their

1117
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: Janus jobs Joplin. Right freedom is when you have nothing

1118
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: left to lose.

1119
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 2: Right freedoms when you have nothing left to lose.

1120
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: So no, Christofferson wrote it, so I should give him

1121
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: more credit than you.

1122
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: But we're calling you know, we'd call on members of Congress,

1123
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: you know, whether they're looking to retire or not to

1124
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 2: come and talk to us about what it looks like

1125
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 2: to start to put together this full croum. Now, you know,

1126
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 2: how can we start to put together a full croom

1127
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: of members of Congress and also in state legislatures around

1128
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 2: the country where Okay, we're going to we're recruiting them,

1129
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 2: we're running them, you know. I mean, I was at

1130
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 2: a dinner with Lisa and she said, it can't just

1131
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: be me. It can't just be me and Susan. And

1132
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,959
Speaker 2: that's why Ford is here, because we want to run

1133
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: candidates so that they can join these caucuses.

1134
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: So what does she want? What would it take for

1135
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: her to feel comfortable joining your cause? You think, I mean,

1136
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: without without betraying personal confidences. But whether it's her and

1137
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: I know you've met with other sort of what i'd

1138
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: call sort of you know, democracy first people. You know,

1139
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 1: maybe it's maybe it's an Ankus King, maybe it's a

1140
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: John Curtis, you know, but what is the general sense

1141
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 1: that they're like, because I'm sure they're all like, boy,

1142
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: I wish I could I really want to do this butt?

1143
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: Like what's their butt? And how do you respond? To

1144
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: their butt.

1145
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: I think their butt is that there is not a

1146
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: landing pad. If I jump, If I walk the plank

1147
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: and I jump, who's going to catch me? And that's

1148
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: why scaling this movement is so critical, Chuck, and doing

1149
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: it in coalition with other pro democracy partners is really

1150
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: critical as well. You know, last year the Republican and

1151
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party spent twenty billion dollars fighting each other

1152
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 2: and we got nothing for it. Twenty billion dollars. So

1153
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: on fire the pro democracy movement as a whole, I

1154
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 2: would I would say, and I don't include voting rights

1155
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 2: in this, because the voting rights community is incredible and

1156
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: they do great work. But I'm talking about, you know,

1157
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: actually running candidates outside the two party system, focused on

1158
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: on you know, independent candidates and independent movement changing our

1159
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 2: voting structures. What's six hundred and fifty million dollars, right?

1160
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 2: I mean, we have to scale this movement and having

1161
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: audiences like yours today is amazing, Chuck, Like, we want

1162
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: people to come to us and help build so that

1163
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: we can then go to the Brian Fitzpatrick's and the

1164
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: Don Davises of the United States Congress and say come,

1165
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 2: you can jump we've got you.

1166
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: No, it's it's you know, you sit here and again

1167
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: it's like the market, if this were a free market.

1168
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: You know, we see what a free market of political

1169
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: parties looks like. It's in the UK and we see

1170
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: what's happening. The Tories are collapsing and there's a new

1171
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: right wing party and I say this like, okay, that happened.

1172
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: Say you know brand X failed, here's brand why. So

1173
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: Nigel Faros has brand why And it is gaining traction,

1174
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: did really well. He could not have succeeded here because

1175
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: of our structure and and and that continues to be

1176
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: the toughest thing. You need some wins. Where do you think,

1177
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: what's what's what's realistic in winning? You know, is it

1178
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: getting a Mike Duggan, you know that would be a

1179
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: big one. Is it getting mister Morgan and Morgan which

1180
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 1: in some ways you know, he's he's his own entity,

1181
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,439
Speaker 1: he's his own character, and he might be his own

1182
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: party And I don't know, you know that's always that

1183
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, you.

1184
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 2: Open the candidate, it was already on buses, Chuck, that's great.

1185
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: Right, you know you were you opened the door to

1186
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, to a big ten independent party and you

1187
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: never know who might come in the door.

1188
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: That's true, could be Ross.

1189
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: But you really do need a win, right You need

1190
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: you need a you need a person to say hey,

1191
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: this is you know, I look around. Dugan feels like

1192
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: the best potential avatar, especially if he wins and if

1193
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: he and they couldn't govern. You know, Jesse Ventura couldn't govern.

1194
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: He tried, you know, but his frankly hit I think

1195
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: naivete and what he was facing, you know, the last

1196
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: basically true independent governor, I guess Alaska kind of somebody

1197
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: who was independent but was sort of a major party

1198
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: player for a while. You know where else am I

1199
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: missing any any other places? Or is Doug really probably

1200
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: the biggest potential?

1201
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: Well? I think I think it's interesting because we've been

1202
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 2: talking about well, we've been talking about legislative branches, and

1203
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 2: we've been talking about Congress. But voters have a very

1204
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 2: different relationship with executive leadership than they do there.

1205
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: They care about it and it's very personal.

1206
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 2: It's very personal. So the relationship that voters have with

1207
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: their mayor, with their county executive, with their governor is

1208
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 2: very very personal. And because of that, I think we

1209
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 2: have a great opportunity with with gubernatorial seats around the country.

1210
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 2: Mike's someone we're talking to a lot. We really like him.

1211
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 2: He just did Andrews podcast last week. His campaign manager

1212
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: is fantastic. One of the interesting things that we've been

1213
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: talking about with their campaign is actually going back to

1214
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 2: the idea of infrastructure. So you know who's our digital vendor.

1215
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 2: You know, he was a Democrat, so obviously, like all

1216
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: of that democratic resources, you want.

1217
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: To be a logistics resource. He needs absolutely structure. Do

1218
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: you have a voter file? Are we do?

1219
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 2: We are building a voter file. It is a it's

1220
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 2: a huge goal of mine to build that voter file

1221
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: together with other organizations so that we can rival like

1222
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 2: the Data Trust of the conservative movement and you know

1223
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: ngp VAN and Phoenix on on the progressive side, so

1224
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: that you know, when we have our payment processor and

1225
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: you donate to Mike dug In that we're learning about

1226
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 2: all of those folks and we're building up that same

1227
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 2: network that you know an Act Blue or a Win

1228
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 2: Red voter would have or donor would have. So but

1229
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 2: it is it's a lot of questions about infrastructure and support,

1230
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 2: you know, and and that's the other thing, you know,

1231
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 2: when we go back and talk about kind of jumping

1232
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 2: the plank, you know, and what does it look like

1233
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 2: to get some of these converts, to show them that

1234
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 2: there is a there are resources there for them. Don't worry.

1235
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 2: If the party that you're leaving pulls your voter file,

1236
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: We've got you. If the party that you're leaving, your

1237
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: campaign manager quits, I've got talent for you. The party

1238
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 2: that you're leaving, you know, and tells your digital vendor

1239
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 2: they can no longer work for you. And these are

1240
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: all real things, right like, these are all real things

1241
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 2: that happen to people. I had coffee with Kearson, Cinema's

1242
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 2: digital director a couple of months ago, and talking to

1243
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: me about the logistics of her leaving the Democratic Party

1244
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 2: and serving as an independent. What did it mean for

1245
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 2: her to continue to communicate, you know, in campaign and

1246
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 2: the already had Reuben Diego running against her, and she,

1247
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 2: you know, she didn't necessarily know. I think that she

1248
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: wasn't going to run for reelection when she switched to

1249
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 2: an independent, but she had no infrastructure to support her

1250
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 2: in that race. So we that's a lot of the

1251
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 2: conversations we're having with Mike are related to resourcing his

1252
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 2: campaign and what is it looked like to have access

1253
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 2: to those technologies and that talent, And those are conversations

1254
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: we're excited to have with with other governors across the country.

1255
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: We did have a big win this spring. Dan Thatcher

1256
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 2: was a Republican member of the Senate in Utah and

1257
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: Senator Thatcher came out and switched parties. So he stood

1258
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: on the steps of the Utah Capital in Salt Lake

1259
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: and said he is joining the Forward Party.

1260
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean convert in some ways. Converts are your are

1261
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,520
Speaker 1: your are your best advocates?

1262
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 2: Earlier the hugely yeah. I mean for them to say

1263
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: I could not serve my community, I could not serve

1264
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 2: my constituents as a member of one of these two

1265
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 2: legacy parties. And Forward told me that I just have

1266
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 2: to commit to you know, a set of values and

1267
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: principles in this pledge and then I can focus on

1268
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,520
Speaker 2: what my constituents want. Is incredibly empowering for them.

1269
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: You're planning a convention midterm concens Yeah, what would that

1270
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: look like? Is it going to be virtual? Is it

1271
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: in person? I please say it's in person.

1272
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 2: I'm tired of gather somebody wants to be together. It's

1273
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 2: so inspiring. Check I got a time. I mean, you

1274
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 2: go to these meetings. I was in Colorado last week

1275
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 2: meeting with all these municipal leaders and meeting with our

1276
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: leadership Colorado.

1277
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:11,719
Speaker 1: Springs as an independent mayor these days.

1278
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah me Mobilatti, Yeah, we love Yemy. He's great Nigerian immigrant,

1279
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,959
Speaker 2: Red District military bases Colorado Springs. They elected an independent.

1280
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 2: So there's there's precedent. We're seeing this happen around the country.

1281
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we're going to look at some

1282
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 2: really serious contenders for governor in California as independents.

1283
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: So well, the opportunities in California give you, give you

1284
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: at least a boxer's chance, right the top two system.

1285
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I would assume that that in some ways

1286
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: you'll end up. Look not to tell you what a target.

1287
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: There's underwhelming candidates for governor in Arizona, and Arizona is

1288
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 1: a state that's usually pretty friendly to independence.

1289
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 2: Arizona has an incredible infrastructure too of pro democracy supporters.

1290
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 2: Former mayor of Phoenix Guy named Paul Johnson, was a Democrat.

1291
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: He left the Democratic Party and as an independent and

1292
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 2: the business community. Paul's been a leader there. What's interesting

1293
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 2: about Arizona is the business community has been really involved

1294
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 2: in pro democracy efforts, So trying to open up the

1295
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,560
Speaker 2: primary system in a way, I have to say, I

1296
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 2: don't think I can think of another state where the

1297
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 2: business community has so invested in democracy initiatives, Because, you know,

1298
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,440
Speaker 2: a state that refuses to certify the results of elections

1299
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 2: if not good for business. And I think you know

1300
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 2: and business leaders in Arizona get that. So we're going

1301
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 2: to spend a lot of time in Arizona.

1302
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here on this, and

1303
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: that is, can you be a political party that doesn't

1304
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: have an ideology?

1305
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 2: We will continue to refine our ideology the more we

1306
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,879
Speaker 2: run candidates. The more candidates run, the more they champion

1307
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 2: policies and solutions to real issues. In the United States,

1308
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 2: can you have candidates that contradict each other?

1309
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you may have a candidate that says, hey,

1310
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: I'm for school choice, and you may have another candidate

1311
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: that says, you know, I don't like this about your stuff,

1312
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, But at the same time they're both they

1313
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: both don't like the two major parties, right, Like, what

1314
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: do you do with like a couple of candidates like that.

1315
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 2: I would ask Jeff Sessions and Olympia Snow how they

1316
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: used to serve together, you know, I mean it was

1317
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 2: the two parties had a history of being much more

1318
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: ideologically inclusive. The part is a litmus tests that we

1319
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 2: see now are far worse than they were twenty years ago.

1320
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,440
Speaker 2: There was a lot more room for people to authentically

1321
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 2: serve their communities but be part of a big tent party.

1322
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:45,560
Speaker 4: And that's what we want to replicate. You know that

1323
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 4: if you look at there are both parties are not

1324
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 4: big tents anymore. There are litmus tests now, and it

1325
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 4: used to be. You know, it's funny, it used to

1326
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 4: be there was a bit of a seesaw. When one

1327
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 4: one party got two litmus tests, the other.

1328
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 1: Party opened up their aperture a little bit, right, and

1329
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: culturally that sort of happened this last cycle. I think

1330
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why Republicans did a little bit

1331
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: better is because they looked a little less judgy, right.

1332
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: The Democrats have all these rules to be Democrats, the

1333
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: rules of speech and you know, all this stuff, so

1334
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: I you know, in that sense, them Fresh calls it

1335
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: the tisk party. Right exactly. So I buy that culturally

1336
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: there was a bit of a seesaw here, but for

1337
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: the most part on issues, you can't you know, well,

1338
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,799
Speaker 1: not long ago that plenty of you know, Barack Obama

1339
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 1: would endorse a pro life Democrat because that pro life

1340
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: Democrat was you know, parts two or name him to

1341
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: to be as vice president. Right. Well yeah, well multiple

1342
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: choice with Joe Biden over some days. But it is

1343
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 1: and now it's unfathomable, right, Like, I don't know if

1344
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: you can be an advocate of just public schools and

1345
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: the Republican Party anymore type of thing, right, or you

1346
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: can't be for charter schools if you're on the Democratic Party.

1347
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 1: I mean there is so I guess what you're trying

1348
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: to say is, hey, we're going to be you know,

1349
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: we're a solution solutions oriented and we're not going to

1350
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: fight over the details at the beginning. We're kind of

1351
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 1: trying to like gather people in who at least will

1352
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: agree to agree to compromise. Is that absolutely?

1353
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, you know, a commitment to pragmatism, to decisions,

1354
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 2: decision making based on data, you know, upholding the constitution,

1355
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 2: adherence to the rule of law, you know, these are

1356
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 2: these are really pretty basic tenants that we think that

1357
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: you know, anybody in public service should adhere to. But

1358
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 2: we're actually having people signed pledges to that end and

1359
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: and our uh, our membership models that behaviors, as do

1360
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: our elected officials. And it's and there's all sorts of

1361
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 2: really cool things happening to around the country that help

1362
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 2: facilitate that sort of compromise, like citizens assemblies, right Like

1363
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 2: there's all these really cool innovations. It's all it's all

1364
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: the rage in Paris right now.

1365
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 1: I mean I not to be you know, totally self

1366
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 1: aggrandizing here, but it's like there are issues that are

1367
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: unresolved that only one party seems to care about at

1368
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 1: any given time. Like, you know, I look at campaign

1369
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: finance issues, which I think I used to you know,

1370
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 1: not I'm a free marketer, so I used to say, look,

1371
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, money, bad money, good money. It's money. It's

1372
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: the actors that matter here. But we are getting absurd,

1373
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: like there is there's so much money in the lobbying

1374
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: trade that we now have. It isn't like corporations versus people.

1375
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: It's one corporation hires lobbyists, apple versus another corporation Meta,

1376
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 1: and they're fighting over government regulation that could benefit Apple

1377
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: or hurt Meta or vice versa. And you're like, how

1378
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: does this have anything to do with the voter? And

1379
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: then you look at our debt issue, it's rhetorically usually

1380
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 1: only folks on the right that care about it, but

1381
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: they never do anything about it. If anything, they add

1382
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: to the debt as fast as the left ads to

1383
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,799
Speaker 1: the debt. And then the right never cares about campaign

1384
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: finance issues. And I want to say, guys, you know,

1385
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: the more money in pol takes, the more money that

1386
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: gets taken out of government. Right, Like, it's clear these

1387
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:08,680
Speaker 1: two things are interconnected. Look at I guess, how do

1388
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 1: you become this nexus on these issues?

1389
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, if you if you look at lobbying

1390
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 2: registrations in Q one and then terminations and you track

1391
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 2: that in Q one and Q two of twenty twenty four, Honestly,

1392
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: it's really depressing. I think it's really depressing the way

1393
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 2: you looked at Bolts Shift and the amount of money

1394
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 2: they were spending on lodding firms versus all of the

1395
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 2: Democratic lobbyists that had mass resignation, you know, mass terminations

1396
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 2: for their for their client base. These are just tens

1397
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 2: and tens of millions of dollars just in lobbying, just

1398
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 2: in one.

1399
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: Quarter, right, and it's just well, these people are in power,

1400
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 1: so we'll do it this way.

1401
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's too short term

1402
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: right now. And I think that the American people are

1403
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 2: grown ups, and I think that we can have real

1404
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 2: conversations about real issues. You know, we talked about Ross

1405
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 2: prow and you're talking about national debt. I mean, Ross

1406
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 2: Proe just said things. He just talked to Americans about

1407
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 2: things that were real, you know. I mean, we are

1408
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 2: in this culture of punditry right now where it's like, Okay, well,

1409
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 2: I'm a Republican surrogate, I'm a Democrat surrogate. I'm going

1410
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 2: to use my weekly talking points to be little script is.

1411
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:20,600
Speaker 2: Tell me what the script is. It's not they're not

1412
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 2: actually engaging in discussion. And a new party that encourages

1413
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: people to engage in that discussion to address real issues

1414
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 2: like a federal debt is. I think people are hungry

1415
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: for it, and so we're excited for people to come

1416
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 2: to forward and engage in those difficult conversations.

1417
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 1: It is, like I said, the market is the market

1418
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 1: is there, the demand is there, if only they allow

1419
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: you to practice, if only they allow you to participate,

1420
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: Lindsay druft. So it's going to be I look, I

1421
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: if not now, when right? I mean, I'm sure that's

1422
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 1: how you guys know.

1423
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 2: Then when we are we're fighters too. You know, there's

1424
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 2: there's a rebellious streak to what we are doing here,

1425
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 2: what we're doing with the mare.

1426
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: You're recovering republican? Is that the good way of describing

1427
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: you recovering democrat?

1428
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, yeah, No, it's a great it's

1429
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 2: a great group. Like I said, like we are we

1430
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 2: are we are optimists, but we're pragmatic optimists and we

1431
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 2: know that this is a grind and we're just we're

1432
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 2: going to grind it out every day because it's the

1433
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 2: right thing to do.

1434
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: Chuck lindsay draft, I'll be watching. I'm We've got to

1435
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 1: open this up. I mean, politics is inaccessible. It feels

1436
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: very inaccessible to a lot of people. We've never been

1437
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 1: more accessible to each other. And yet our politics and

1438
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: our government very inaccessible unless you're unless you unless you

1439
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: follow the rules of these two clubs. And I think

1440
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 1: people are getting tired of that.

1441
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed, thanks for having me today.

1442
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: Check, I got it. It's great, Thank you well. I

1443
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that conversation. Look, I I you may

1444
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 1: think everybody tries to figure out what am I partial to? Right?

1445
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: You know, some on the right thing I'm partial to

1446
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 1: the left. Some on the left think I I'm partial

1447
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: to the right. What I am partial to is a

1448
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: freer market for political ideas. And I think the two

1449
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 1: parties are are duopoly and they stifle competition, and they're

1450
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,839
Speaker 1: stifling competition now. Both parties used to be geographically diverse

1451
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: and ideologically diverse, and they didn't stifle as much competition.

1452
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: But I look at what the DNC is doing now.

1453
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: They're trying to do preferred agreements with for their voter

1454
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: file with Target Smart, and part of that agreement will

1455
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: be you know, people challenging incumbents in a primary may

1456
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 1: not have access to that. It's it's it is not

1457
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: it is not going to be good for the free

1458
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 1: market of ideas. And we desperately I'm I you know,

1459
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 1: I tell you I one of the one of my

1460
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 1: sort of half baked ideas to borrow a phrase from

1461
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 1: Bill Simmons. One of my half baked ideas is that

1462
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: the two parties ought to ought to create political subsidiaries

1463
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: that essentially function if we were in a prime minister

1464
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: situt parliamentary system. They would function as sort of the coalitions. Right,

1465
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 1: you have your left coalition and your right coalition, but

1466
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: there ought to be the Working Families Party is the

1467
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: Progressive Party, and you know, maybe the New Democrat, New Democratic,

1468
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, democratic Liberals, what are you going to call them?

1469
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: As your centrist party, and then you'd have a Maga

1470
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 1: party under the under the right wing umbrella, and you

1471
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: might have a Chamber of Commerce party. But they're subsidiaries

1472
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: and they're almost funded by them, and you sort of

1473
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: instead of having interest groups create create sort of political

1474
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: party subsidiaries and then candidates can choose. Well, I want

1475
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: to tell you what kind of democrat I am, or

1476
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you what kind of Republican I

1477
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 1: am by filing with this with this wing of the

1478
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: party versus this wing of the party. Anyway, just a thought,

1479
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: as the two parties says, I do think disruption's coming,

1480
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,480
Speaker 1: whether it's in form of the Forward Party or independence.

1481
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 1: By the way, keep an eye on Mike Duggan uh

1482
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: in Michigan, the Detroit mayor who's running as an independent.

1483
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 1: He could you know somebody is going to be the

1484
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: spring cord for this, you know, uh kind of what

1485
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 1: you know? When Rossboro created the Reform Party, it did

1486
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: hand us a governor eventually. And Jesse Ventura, do you

1487
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 1: get a dug In? Do you get an Angus King

1488
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: and Lisa Murkowski to realize that they'd be better off

1489
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: being members of the Forward Party than they would be

1490
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: caucusing with either of the d's or the rs. These

1491
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 1: are the things that I think is is potentially possible

1492
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 1: h in this uh, in this current environment, and perhaps

1493
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 1: is necessary if you want to see both parties sort

1494
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: of sober up, uh and get their acts together. All Right,

1495
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,599
Speaker 1: it's time for a little last check. May I answer

1496
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 1: a few questions here?

1497
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.

1498
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,799
Speaker 1: Remember shoot me any notes ask Chuck at thechuckcodcast dot com,

1499
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 1: drop a note in comments on YouTube, DMS, LinkedIn's, you

1500
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 1: name it, we Are, and every social media site you

1501
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:55,640
Speaker 1: can think of. All right, this question comes from Corey B.

1502
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: In a recent episode, you mentioned that you disliked the

1503
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: West Wing because it wasn't realistic, but I'm assuming used

1504
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: to watch it. You clearly have a strong grasp of

1505
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: politics and a deep understanding of the political arena. That

1506
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: got me thinking, is there anything that would make you

1507
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 1: consider working at the White House as a communications director

1508
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: in another advisory role, and if so, what qualities would

1509
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 1: you look for in a president or candidate that would

1510
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: inspire you to take that kind of job. Well, I

1511
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: you know, I would probably only unlikely, Okay, And I'll

1512
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 1: tell you one reason. I feel like my career in

1513
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 1: the in media has been both prominent enough that if

1514
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: I chose to work to sort of become a politician,

1515
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: and you go work in the White House, you're becoming

1516
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 1: a politician, that I'd be doing a disservice to my

1517
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: journalism colleagues. I don't begrudge people that have done that,

1518
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: gone through the revolving door, because everybody's got to live

1519
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 1: their own life. Everybody's got mouths to feed, everybody's got

1520
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: tuitions to pay, loans to repay mortgages, et cetera. But

1521
01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: you know, perception is reality these days, and so I'd

1522
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: be very hesitant. So the only, the only even remote

1523
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: possibility would be the person would have to be a

1524
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 1: member of neither party an independent. I'd probably be more

1525
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 1: likely to want to help somebody who's a little bit

1526
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: new to the process. So maybe it's a former military leader,

1527
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 1: maybe it's a former business executive. If you're asking me

1528
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: the type of you know, because I think I could help, right,

1529
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: it would not be a thing where I would want

1530
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 1: to gain where where Where do I think I could

1531
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,679
Speaker 1: help the most? And I think I could help somebody

1532
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: who's new to Washington navigate the place. And but I

1533
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 1: but it would have to be somebody who wasn't interested

1534
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: in building a political movement, but it was more of

1535
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 1: a coming in. They're the problem solver, They're a fix it.

1536
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: You know. I do think we're due for a mechanic

1537
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: president that's basically a democracy mechanic. You know, like, look,

1538
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 1: we've got to we've got to rebuild this thing so

1539
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: that we can and have a more honest government. I mean,

1540
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, the most depressing aspect of the pardons for

1541
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 1: sales story of Trump is how little outrage there is.

1542
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 1: And you know, my wife said, she goes her and

1543
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,600
Speaker 1: I asked, you know, I sort of lewis lamenting this,

1544
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:23,280
Speaker 1: and she says, well, it's because the reason there's no outrage,

1545
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: everybody assumes this is always how it works, and that

1546
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: talk about and I think she's right, and so you know,

1547
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: we're in this we're in a period where people just

1548
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: believe the worst in politicians and believe the worst in institutions.

1549
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 1: And the reason you know, there's a lot of people

1550
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: who support Trump because they think, well, he just says

1551
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,719
Speaker 1: what's already been done. He behaves the way others behave.

1552
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 1: You just know it, right that the Mike Johnson, well,

1553
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, Biden did it undercover. Trump does it out

1554
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: in the open. My goodness, right, we sort of need

1555
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,560
Speaker 1: to We need to repair the image and the relationship

1556
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: of the democracy with the public and of these institutions.

1557
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: So you're asking the type of the type of candidate.

1558
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:10,639
Speaker 1: It would have to be an unconventional, non major party person,

1559
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: and it would have to be somebody who's again who

1560
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 1: wants to be a pastor for patriotism. I think that's

1561
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 1: what we could use a little bit right now and

1562
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: a mechanic for the infrastructure of the democracy. All right,

1563
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: next question, doctor b I've been listening to your show

1564
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 1: for many, many years. I appreciate that I appreciate the

1565
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 1: level of scholarship and networking you bring to journalism. One

1566
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: thing I know you appreciate is democracy. The patient scope

1567
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: of the erosion of our civil liberties is unnerving. I

1568
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I want my life back.

1569
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Americans want our lives back,

1570
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: our freedoms, and I want to check in your opinion,

1571
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: what are demonstrated political conditions or pathways for restoring and

1572
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: advancing lasting civil rights? Who would you say you say

1573
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 1: are the most interesting change makers or organizations right now?

1574
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: Can you speak to the history of political leadership during

1575
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: the successes of the civil rights movement up to now?

1576
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 1: Why has targeting our freedom's been so easy? I would

1577
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 1: love to hear your a soapbox on civil freedoms, change

1578
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 1: makers organizing in the pathways to balance power with lasting

1579
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: peace for humanity. Wow, thanks for all that you do.

1580
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 1: You are I fear that I cannot deliver what you're

1581
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: looking for. Uh And in some ways you're I think

1582
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 1: you're pining for the leader I just described of who

1583
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 1: I would you be looking for in something like this?

1584
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think we need a pastor for

1585
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: patriotism and people need to understand. You know, there's America

1586
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 1: is an idea. We're not an ethnicity. And I think

1587
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: that this is a fundamental disagreement that's going on right

1588
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:38,679
Speaker 1: now in America. There's plenty of people, particularly I think

1589
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,599
Speaker 1: Trump tapped into this, and the Maga movement has tapped

1590
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,640
Speaker 1: into this, is that no, no, no, no, we are an

1591
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 1: ethnic democracy. We are a Judeo Christian you know. And

1592
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: it's like, no, that wasn't the intent. We may have

1593
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 1: developed that way in reality, but you know, I always

1594
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: say the single most important phrase of our founding fathers

1595
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 1: is more perfect union, the implication it was never going

1596
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 1: to be perfect, but that we were always going to

1597
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 1: try to be better, right, And America was an idea.

1598
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: And so I do think we need the type of

1599
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:15,879
Speaker 1: leader that can teach us again about the story of America,

1600
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 1: that actually appreciates the story of America. I mean, one

1601
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 1: of my big frustrations with Donald Trump. Here's this American

1602
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: success story. His family immigrated here, grandfather goes to Alaska,

1603
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: starts may or may not have run a brothel or

1604
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,639
Speaker 1: at least some sort of hotel out there in Alaska

1605
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,360
Speaker 1: in the frontier, made enough money to support a family

1606
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,560
Speaker 1: got you know, you know, there's there's and and you know,

1607
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have had this success anywhere else. And yet

1608
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: he doesn't really appreciate the story of America and the arc,

1609
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: you know, and it's and he's the first president in

1610
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 1: my lifetime, you know that that hasn't sort of understood

1611
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: that this is a long story, that we're writing new

1612
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: chapters and that they're but there's a through line here.

1613
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 1: And you know, this is why I think I'm always

1614
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 1: hopeful that there's a military leader that's going to step

1615
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 1: into the you know, not because I think the military

1616
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 1: is the perfect place for this, but I do think

1617
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 1: the military is the least political side. I'm concerned how

1618
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: Pete hag Seth is recruiting. I think he's trying to

1619
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 1: create a partisan environment in the military, which is a

1620
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 1: huge mistake because I think one of our strengths is

1621
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,799
Speaker 1: the fact that the military is the last place where

1622
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: deep red and deep blue are in a in a

1623
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 1: bunker together and they're just Americans first. Man, they're Marines first,

1624
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: they're infantry men first, right, they're naval guys first. You

1625
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: get my point. So I I just think that there's

1626
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: an appreciation that somebody with military experience, particularly career military,

1627
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 1: who is seen that that. You know, it's the closest

1628
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 1: part of our society that tries to be more colorblind

1629
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: than in class blind than any other part. It exists there.

1630
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and say it doesn't.

1631
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to imply that, but it is better.

1632
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 1: It's a better institution than really in many of the

1633
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 1: other institutions. And so that's why I think if we're

1634
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: going to find that pastor for patriotism that can sort

1635
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 1: of renew our interest in the story of America, I

1636
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 1: have a feeling it's going to come from somebody who's

1637
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: had the experience of being in a bunker with people

1638
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 1: from all different classes, and all different geographic locations and

1639
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: all different ethnicities. All Right, last question comes from Josh.

1640
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: He says, check, I listened to to west more in

1641
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: South Carolina, and it seems to me the den most

1642
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: likely to be able to build a coalition similar to

1643
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,679
Speaker 1: the one that powered Bill Clinton, Obama, Hillary and Biden

1644
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 1: to a DEM nod. What do you think of that possibility? Yeah, Josh.

1645
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 1: When I'm asked to name the three most likely Democratic nominees,

1646
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 1: first of all, I usually demurror and say I have

1647
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 1: a feeling I'd still rather be a candidate I haven't

1648
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:07,639
Speaker 1: heard of yet than anybody that we see in the mix.

1649
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: And I make a note that Pete Bootajij circa twenty seventeen, right,

1650
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 1: was this guy who just unsuccessfully ran for DNC chair,

1651
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: but a lot of people enjoyed interviewing him, and people

1652
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: were wondering, Hey, that guy's got a future, he's got

1653
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 1: something to say, And within three years he was a

1654
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: major candidate for president. And frankly, if there were a

1655
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: normal campaign rather than COVID, there's a chance that he

1656
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: would have been the nominee in twenty and literally, you know, so,

1657
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 1: I don't know who the mayor of South Bend is

1658
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:38,720
Speaker 1: right now. I haven't looked it up. But you get

1659
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: my point, right, which is I think it's possible we

1660
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:43,680
Speaker 1: don't know yet the next star of the party. That

1661
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 1: sort of catches fire. But if you're asking me to

1662
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:49,560
Speaker 1: name three people who are out there that are the

1663
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:53,960
Speaker 1: most likely nominees right now, the three names I put

1664
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: out there are Wes Moore, Pete Bootagig, and Gretchen Whimer.

1665
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: I think Whitmer's the most s tessful two term governor

1666
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 1: that will be running. I think that Wes Moore. Look,

1667
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think both Wesmore and Pete

1668
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: h having military backgrounds are vital. I mean, I think

1669
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:17,639
Speaker 1: if the Democrats need that, that that is a I'm

1670
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:19,720
Speaker 1: not saying it's a must in their next nominee, but

1671
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it's an important potential

1672
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:30,520
Speaker 1: asset for the next nominee. And look, Wes Moore's connections.

1673
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,719
Speaker 1: He ran the Robin Hood Foundation, He's got finan very

1674
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: wealthy connections. Although he's not from wealth, he certainly knows

1675
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:40,320
Speaker 1: a lot of wealthy people. I think that he and

1676
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:43,759
Speaker 1: Budhaji will have the most professional operations that are running

1677
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 1: for president. And that means something. You know, it doesn't

1678
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,800
Speaker 1: guarantee anything, but it puts you. You know. It's sort

1679
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 1: of like it's like getting the top seed in the

1680
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,640
Speaker 1: NCAA basketball tournament or baseball tournament doesn't mean you're going

1681
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: to make it to the final four or to Omaha,

1682
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 1: but you're going to have an easier path to get

1683
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 1: to the final four or Omaha. So I do think

1684
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: Wes Moore, in theory, will have all the right people

1685
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 1: wanting to work for him will have the resources. But

1686
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, I'm very skeptical. You know,

1687
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 1: he's got to figure out how to not feel like

1688
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:20,720
Speaker 1: a derivative campaign, right, And there's like a part of

1689
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: me with with you know, you know, I'm with you.

1690
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 1: He says a lot. I mean when he talks about

1691
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:31,679
Speaker 1: national service and he's got he's off created and basically

1692
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: a service program in Maryland that I think he wants

1693
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 1: to emulate. So there's a lot of things that I

1694
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:40,480
Speaker 1: think that he's I think he's I think he understands

1695
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: the tone he needs to have if he does become president.

1696
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 1: But you know, there's also a part of me. It's

1697
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 1: like I remember a candidate that seemed this perfect at

1698
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: this point in time, a guy named John Edwards. And

1699
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 1: you know, let David Axelrod has this great saying that

1700
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:02,040
Speaker 1: running for president is an MRI for the soul. Bodhajid

1701
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 1: has already had a little bit of the Rotor Router test,

1702
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 1: so he's going to have a vetting and that might

1703
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:09,000
Speaker 1: be a slight advantage, although I think the Biden baggage

1704
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 1: is going to be quite heavy for him. You know,

1705
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 1: we got to see how well Wes Moore goes through

1706
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 1: the process. But here's what I will tell you, I

1707
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 1: can't the last I'm trying to think of the last

1708
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 1: Democratic president in my lifetime that got elected. You know,

1709
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:30,560
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is the only one in my lifetime that

1710
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:34,519
Speaker 1: got elected after failing in a presidential candidate the first

1711
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 1: time Bill Clinton won a first time he ran, Barack

1712
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 1: Obama won the first time he ran, Jimmy Carter won

1713
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 1: the first time he ran. Democrats have a tendency not

1714
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: to not to go for somebody that ran before, which

1715
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 1: I think is the problem for Bootajid, and that's a

1716
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 1: potential advantage for more. So. Look, I think More right

1717
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 1: now is an early Uh. He would be in the

1718
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 1: preseason top five of your polling, no doubt about it.

1719
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 1: But as we all know, sometimes those season polls are

1720
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: super accurate and sometimes they end up being super wrong.

1721
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:08,400
Speaker 1: All Right, with that, I hope you enjoy your weekend.

1722
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 1: It's a big weekend in the Todd household. My son's

1723
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,120
Speaker 1: graduating high school. We're very excited. I got a lot

1724
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:16,480
Speaker 1: of family in town.

1725
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 3: Uh.

1726
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: It's it's about to go empty nest, and it's going

1727
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: to happen faster than I realize. Yes, they don't go

1728
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 1: off back to college until August, but they're so busy

1729
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: this summer. I think I'm going to test right it.

1730
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: So I will be sharing some of my empty nest

1731
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 1: anxiety with you a little bit. I'm not going to

1732
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 1: overly personalize this, but uh, I'm certainly very proud, proud

1733
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: of my son and and I just can't believe that

1734
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: that this part, this part of the journey, is already over.

1735
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 1: But with that, enjoy, enjoy your weekend, and I'll see

1736
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 1: you on this channel the next time I up. Oh

1737
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: to you Monday morning. M