1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and Chal Stephane never 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: told you production of iHeart Radio, and today we have 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: a classic for you. That's it's an interesting one because 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: it's about women in shark science, which there was a 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: great episode. I loved it, but we've both missed Shark Week, 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: which just happened. And also we originally did this episode. 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: Do you remember this? We did it around the holidays 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: because Jaws the Revenge is a holiday movie, so we 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: talked about that at the beginning. So timing wise, we're 10 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: very off. This one is kind of confusing in that manner, 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: but I did want to bring this one back because 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, even though it's got some really upsetting 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: stuff towards the end. But as I've mentioned recently, I 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: have been I know, I'm always watching horror movies, but 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: I have in on horror movie kick like a lot, 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: a lot. Like I was trying to close down the 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: horror movie shot for a minute, but then I got 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: a free trial for shutters. So now that that's all, 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: is that what happened? Because you're preemptive right now, Like 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: we typically don't start until end of August, September, October, 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: so way ahead. I say way ahead because you were 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: doing this a month ago, two months ago. Yeah, I know. 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: I think we will be continuing to talk about this. 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: But I have watched a lot of shark horror movies lately, 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: which I know, as I mentioned in the top of 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: this this classic episode, I know shark scientists really don't like. 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: If this was if I could have a different podcast, 28 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: I would want to do one. That is just why 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: do we have so many horror movies about sharks and 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: everything imaginable everything. But that's a different podcast, and I'm 31 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: really busy right now. But if anybody has that podcast, 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: let me know. In the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, 33 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: this is any and Samantha and record to stuff. I 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: never told your production of I Heart Radio. So Samantha, 35 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: what are your what are your thoughts on sharks? You know, 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: as I've talked about, I have many a weird phobias, 37 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: and I guess I did not realize how many that 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: I had until people started asking me to do things 39 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: or if I was interested in things, And then when 40 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: people would suggest things, I'm like, oh, actually I'm scared 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: of that. And sharks and creatures in the sea scare me. 42 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: One of those things is like if I can't see 43 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: the bottom, I can't. I can't if I can't see 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: in the water, hell no, hell no. I don't know. 45 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: If it's because of the many tales that I've heard 46 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: of people losing a limb and or be like bitten 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: on or chewed on a little bit or dung um, 48 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: all of those things have scared me pretty darn well, 49 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: so that I don't like going too deep into the ocean. 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to scuba. I don't want to do 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: any of those things. The one time I went to 52 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and all we did was like, you know, 53 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: we were not that far out, but they were like, 54 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: here's the scuba I need to do. And when I 55 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: figured out what was around me, I immediately got out. 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I can see these things. 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: Now I have to leave. So all that to say, yeah, 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: sharks scare me, I absolutely believe. Like all the amazing 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: people who do great things, and I love the little 60 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: videos of people making friends that's so adorable, but hell no, 61 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: hell no, they made me panic. And then like when 62 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: I see the videos of people who are doing the 63 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: little rafting or the canoeing or whatever it is that 64 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: they're doing out there, and then there's a big creature 65 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: underneath them. I'm like, that makes my heart skip a 66 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: beat in a bad way. Right, So I have a 67 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: lot of feel links on it. Yes, yes, irrational. I 68 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: suspected you might. I suspected you might. I I'm actually 69 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: also afraid of sharks. But I also love sharks. I 70 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: like many people, and I know to anyone who's listening 71 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: works with sharks, this is going to really bother you. 72 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: But I love the movie Draws and I would watch 73 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: it every summer because I'm a masochistic, weird child. Uh. 74 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: And then I would be afraid. I would be afraid 75 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: every time I went into the water. I had a 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: friend who had like a story of big She saw 77 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: shadow in a pool and thought of a shark. I 78 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: fool would just always be on edge. And I have 79 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: seen some sharks while swimming. Um. I when I was 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: scuba diving in Australia, I turned around and there was 81 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: a big, old grigory nurse shark right there, and I 82 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: just probs, like to your extra rules. Although luckily for me, 83 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: I had done a report on gray nurse sharks in 84 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: high school, because I also think that sharks shure misunderstood. Yes, 85 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: but gray nurse sharks don't. They were almost extinct if 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: I'm remembering quickly, or they were definitely endangered because they 87 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: look me and they look like white great white sharks, 88 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: but they actually I don't think they can even bite, 89 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: like their mouths don't open enough to really do any 90 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: damage to humans. So it was like this really tragic 91 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: thing that happened. So luckily I was like, pretty sure 92 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: that's a great nurse shark. I'm definitely not going to engage, 93 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: and I hope it just goes away, but I'm pretty 94 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: sure it's a great, great nurse shark. I have had 95 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: a couple of close encounters with sharks. I'm thinking of 96 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: at least three off the top of my head that 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: we're pretty scary, but I won't go into them because 98 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: we were trying not to fear monker about sharks. Yeah, 99 00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: don't tell me these stories. Oh no, you have to 100 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: hear it. I'm fired. It all worked out. So before 101 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: we get into this, we did want to put a 102 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: quick trigger warning. We're gonna be talking about some sexual 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: harassment and sexual assaults and kind of just general a 104 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: key nous around all of that. Um, we're not gonna 105 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: get into into anything too specific, but put that right 106 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: at the top. But this was an old request from 107 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: a listener, Vicky, and I hope you're still listening, Vickie. 108 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: I believe those requests from several several years ago. We 109 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: will get to all your requests sometimes it takes. And 110 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: should we be talking about sharks and women in shark 111 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: science during Shark Week? No, because it is a holiday topic. 112 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: And here's why. I recently just rewatched the movie Jaws 113 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: the Revenge had a whole like planned as like they all, 114 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: they did a little like a streaming matinee of Jaws. 115 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: I was very surprised. Yes, I had actually forgotten it 116 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: was a Christmas movie at this point. It was just 117 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: kind of a pleasant, well Christmas movie and very loose Christmas. 118 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: And it's also called Jaws for the Revenge from nineteen 119 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: and if you all me, here's a brief synopsis. It 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: is a sequel to Jaws Too, ignoring what happens in 121 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: Jaws three D, and it centers primarily on Ellen Brody, 122 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: played by Lorraine Gray. Her husband Martin Brodie, had recently 123 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: died of a heart attack. And she loses her son 124 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: in a shark attack at the beginning of the movie, 125 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: and the actor who plays him now owns a restaurant 126 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. This walking Distance from Me and Yes takes 127 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: place at Christmas. There's a whole thing where there's a 128 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: Christmas carol playing. Winter Sun dies and if they hadn't 129 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: been singing, they might have heard his cries for help. 130 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: That the moral of the story. Don't singing Christmas carols. 131 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: They go, I mean, we've been talking about that for 132 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: a while. To stop seeing Christmas songs if it's not 133 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: near Christmas over, just don't think Christmas kidding. If it's 134 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: one thing I learned from Jaws, the revenge. So Ellen 135 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: becomes convinced that this shrike wants revenge on her family 136 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: after the past two outcomes of sharks coming in contact 137 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: with her family ending up in those sharks dying. The 138 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: tagline of the film is this time it's personal. Her 139 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: remaining son, Michael, who is a marine biologist, convinces her 140 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: to calm down to the Bahamas after assuring her there 141 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: are and have never been sharks in the waters down there. 142 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: Never The pilot HOGI, played by Michael Kane immediately shows 143 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: interest in Ellen, an interest that is reciprocated, and well, 144 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: when you know what, a shark shows up when Michael 145 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: is conducting research and seems to only be interested in 146 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: attacking him. M Michael doesn't tell his mother, who was 147 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: having nightmares flash box and seemingly premonitions about a shark 148 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: trying to kill her family. After an attempted shark attack 149 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: on her granddaughter, Ellen, it takes a boat and goes 150 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: out to confront the shark. Michael admits what has been 151 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: going on when they catch up via plane. Michael admits 152 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: what has been going on with the shark because he 153 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: and some colleagues, including Hoagi, they catch up with her. Um. 154 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: They confront the shark, and with several fake out deaths 155 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: of the human, of the shark, of some inexplicable dancing, 156 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: and an explosion, Ellen impales the shark um while seeing 157 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: visions of her family and other sharks, many she'd never seen, 158 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: never seen before, and yes, in the edited version, this 159 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: somehow causes an explosion. Uh, there's more than one ending 160 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: to this movie. And if you're listening to this and 161 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: you're thinking that sounds kind of bizarre, it is. It 162 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: was not well reviewed, It was widely panned. It was 163 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: the last of the Jaw series to date. But I 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: don't think it's some interesting things in there. Um, you've 165 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: got a whole like women's intuition, um with Ellen and 166 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: this trauma and like constantly being dismissed. Admittedly, this shark 167 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: premonitions a little different than what we're normally talking about. 168 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: But she was right, She was right. And then I 169 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: always love this line. Apparently Michael Caine has never seen 170 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: this movie, and he has a quote where he said, 171 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: I've never seen it. I hear it's quite why all 172 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: accounts it's quite terrible, but I have seen the house 173 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: it bought and it's lovely. And then you have this 174 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: whole side flot with older widowed women dating um and 175 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: Michael being weird about it. Um, Like it's kind of strange. 176 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: But also Michael Caine's character watching it, because this was 177 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: my second viewing of this film, he does seem to 178 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: have a little bit of suspicious things going on in 179 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: his life. But she she knows what she's doing as well. 180 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: She wants to be happy. Doesn't have probably addict the 181 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: fictions of the bombs and people that live there. Yes, 182 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: but uh, this is It's one of those movies where 183 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: I was watching it and I sometimes you just don't 184 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: expect all the Christmas imagery in a movie about sharks. 185 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: I know that bringing up Jaws Yes, does not endear 186 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: me to any sharks scientist, though interestingly in Jawston Revenge 187 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: there is some sharks science happening, and speaking of Yes, today, 188 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about some of the women who 189 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: have done and are doing amazing work in the field 190 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: of sharks science, the real non fixed sharks science. A 191 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,599 Speaker 1: couple of stats before we get into that. Despite the 192 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: fact that modernly about graduate students in the USR women, 193 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: the majority of senior scientists in it are white men. 194 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: Some articles used the term the Petrie Sharks for this 195 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: specifically niche when we're talking about today. Study across scientific 196 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: disciplines found six of those surveyed experienced sexual harassment on 197 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: the job, and twenty percent experienced sexual assaults and racism. 198 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: A recent BBC study found that seven seminal textbooks used 199 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: to teach science and medicine to undergraduates did not feature 200 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: a single black woman in them. So the situation isn't 201 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: great for sharks either. Over a hundred million sharks are 202 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: lost a year due to commercial industries. Yes, yes, so 203 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: that's kind of setting the stage where we're talking about um. 204 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: And one name that comes up a lot in this 205 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: conversation of women and sharks science is Dr Eugenie Clark. 206 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: From childhood, Clark had love sharks and showed an interest 207 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: in taking care of the oceans. She was born in 208 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: New York City on May four Her father was American 209 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: and her mother was Japanese. She often credited her mom 210 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: and Japanese culture for fostering her love for the sea 211 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: and passion for protecting it. As a kid, she enjoyed 212 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: spending her saturdays at the New York Aquarium watching the 213 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: sharks and wondering what it would be like to swim 214 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: with them. She became a marine biologist despite all of 215 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: those sexism she encountered over her career from extremely early on. 216 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: In her words, she says, as a child, marine biologists 217 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: explore William Beebe was my hero, and I used to 218 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: read about him going down in the batty sphere and 219 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to do that too. And I told my 220 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: family and they said, well, maybe you can take up 221 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: typing and get to be the secretary of William Babe 222 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: or somebody like him. And when she applied for graduate 223 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: school at Columbia University, a scientist told her quote, if 224 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: you do finish, you'll probably get married, have a bunch 225 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: of kids, and never do anything in science. After we've 226 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: invested our time and money in you. Well, daum, people 227 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: are real supportive. But of course that was not the case. 228 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: Boom got her PhD from New York University and platus 229 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: and swordfish reproduction, and through her work earned the nickname 230 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: the Shark Lady as a leader in the field. During 231 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: her time as a full Bright scholar, she explored the 232 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: largely unexplored waters of the Red Coast of Egypt and 233 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: experience which led her to write the best selling book 234 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: Lady with a Spear in nineteen fifty three. She went 235 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: on to take a job at the Script's Institution of Oceanography, 236 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: when diving was still a pretty risky thing to do. 237 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: Her hose mauth functioned at one point and she nearly drowned, 238 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: And she still had to deal with institutional sexism. For instance, 239 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: at one time women were not allowed to do overnight 240 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: research trips archers to places like the Galapagos Islands, Clark 241 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: became the founding director of the Cape Hayes Marine Laboratory 242 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: or what is now the Mote Marine Laboratory and Aquarium 243 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: in nine and this is where she really deviled and 244 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: fostered her love of sharks, and she really made it 245 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: her goal to change their image. She once said, people 246 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: generally thought that sharks are dumb eating machines. After some study, 247 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: I began to realize that these gangsters of the deep 248 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: have gotten a bad rap. So she conducted several experiments 249 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: to make her point, and in one she showed that 250 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: sharks could tap plates to obtain food, and they could 251 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: distinguish between two symbols on different plates. On top of this, 252 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: she also discovered the first known effective shark repellent, called 253 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: Moses soul. Just a case of curious. It was made 254 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: out of flat fish secretions, so all right, let's go 255 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: get some. She debunked the myth that sharks had to 256 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: keep moving to breathe with her discovery of sleeping sharks 257 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: in undersea caves in Mexico. She was an outspoken public 258 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: speaker and defender of sharks. In fact, she jumped to 259 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: the defensive sharks after the movie Jabs came out in 260 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: One of her most well known articles was the piece 261 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: in National Geographic called Sharks Magnificent and miss understood. So 262 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: she married five times, so she didn't get married, but 263 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: not to quit. She married five times and had four children. 264 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: Up until nineteen she was a teacher and she kept 265 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: diving until her death in twift at the age of 266 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: ninety two. In an interview, she said, quote, I figure, 267 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: if I'm in a wheelchair, they can will me to 268 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: the end of the boat and put on attack on 269 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: my back and duped me over the side of the boat, 270 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: and I can go down to the bottom and I 271 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: can study these fishes as long as I want, if 272 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: you want to learn more. So many books have been 273 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: written about her and by her, like children's books, science books, 274 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: all kinds of books. Amazing, I know, I know grief. 275 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: Julian Child backed for a time during World War Two. 276 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: Julia Child worked for an agency that collected an analyzed 277 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: intel for the Office of Strategic Services or the o 278 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: s S. The story is fascinating, but for our purposes 279 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: in this episode. At one point she was assigned to 280 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: the Emergency CE Rescue Equipment Section and task with developing 281 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: a shark repellent. What they came up with was something 282 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: that smelled like dead sharks that showed quote slight repellents. Nice. 283 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: Then there's Melissa Christina Marquez, the other of sharks Pretty 284 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: Riacan scientist, author, and public speaker. Marquez is outspoken when 285 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: it comes to the importance of understanding and protecting sharks. 286 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: She's also passionate about diversifying the field. Quote I not 287 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: only focus on diverse sharks because they're over five hundred 288 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: different species, but I also want people to see the 289 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: diverse scientists that study them as well. Growing up watching 290 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: Shark Week, I never saw any female scientists, let alone 291 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: any female Latina scientists. So with the organization that I have, 292 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: I want people to see themselves in a lineup of 293 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: sharks scientists and be like, great, I can do this. 294 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: I work with really inspirational people who helped me be 295 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: better and to keep pushing through the racism, the sexism, 296 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: and the ageism. She was also attacked by a crocodile 297 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: while on a shark dive in All Good and she 298 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: continues to dive. Also don't like crocodiles, so in Jillian 299 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: Morris break Launch Sharks for Kids with a goal of 300 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: providing free educational materials for teachers to use in classrooms, 301 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: the program also offers in parson visits, tours, trips, and 302 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: shark tagging expeditions. That's kind of cool. Yeah, oh, I 303 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: would have loved that as a kid. Oh, I would 304 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: have loved it to UM. So, now let's talk about 305 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: Minorities and Shark Sciences or miss m I s S. 306 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: This organization was founded in June after the hashtag black 307 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: in Nature in conjunction with the hashtag black Burners Week. 308 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: UM We're trending. Hosted by at Black a f in stem. 309 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: It was founded by Yasmin Graham, Ammani Weber Schultz, Carl Jackson, 310 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: and Jada Lcock. From their website, we were founded by 311 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: four black female shark researchers. We strive to be seen 312 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: and take up space in a discipline which has been 313 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: largely inaccessible for women like us. We strive to be 314 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: positive role models for the next generation. We seek to 315 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: promote diversity and inclusion in shark science and encourage women 316 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: of color to push through barriers and contribute knowledge and 317 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: marine science. Finally, we hope to topple the system that 318 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: has historically excluded women like us and create an equitable 319 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: path to shark science. We believe diversity and scientists creates 320 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: diversity and thought, which leads to innovation. Reebert Schultz has 321 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: been open about how she is careful about who she 322 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: works with in the face of violent racist threats. She's 323 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: received quote, I need to feel that whoever I'm working 324 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 1: for or with will have my back and stand up 325 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: for me in situations where it is not safe for 326 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: me to stand up for myself. Uh yeah, so Graham 327 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: said of the founding, thinking about those slaves of Freedom Texas. 328 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: If they could know in the future that they were 329 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: going to be black people getting pH d s and 330 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: they're going to be black people publishing papers and everything, 331 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: that would blow their mind. But it doesn't just stop there. 332 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: The barriers should not exist at all, and the work 333 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: is not finished, and the founding of MISS is a 334 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: continuation of all the work that was started by those 335 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: that came before us. Um. They also started Guild Guardians 336 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: to educate the public about sharks, skates, and rays, and 337 00:19:48,440 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: on top of that they have the Rising Ties mentorship program. 338 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: So let's take a look at today. Because while these 339 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: badass women have made great strides and against odds stacked 340 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: against them, the field still has a lot of issues. 341 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: In August, Katherine McDonald wrote The Dark Side of being 342 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: a Female Shark Researcher. Being a scientist should not require 343 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: developing the grit to continually endure misogyny, discrimination, harassment, assault 344 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: or bullying, and in it she described her experience with 345 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: all of the above from a young intern just starting 346 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: off in shark science. She also highlights how Discovery Channel's 347 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: annual event Shark Week, a week of content that draws 348 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: millions of years, very rarely features women are people of 349 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: color in leading roles. She described her first experience in 350 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: the field as an intern, being relegated into a sexualized 351 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: supporting role for the lead of male scientists on camera 352 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: and speaking at her first conference and being attacked so 353 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: aggressively by a male scientist that another man apologized for him, 354 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: saying he does that to a female graduate student every 355 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: year or two. Okay, so that's okay, yeah, yeah, that 356 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: makes it better. Yeah. Um. This conference typically ended in 357 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: an auction in which grad students in revealing outfits, paraded 358 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: items up for bid around the room, an event where 359 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: one senior scientist would sit with the quote prettiest students. 360 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: Women had to be on guard from on wanted touches. Um. 361 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: The first male grad student who helped display auction items 362 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: at this event had his ass slapped by a senior 363 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: scientist dude who said, quote for old times sake. McDonald 364 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: also described a photo from a pass conference where a 365 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: male senior scientist had his hand between the length of 366 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: two female scientists, lifting them. One is laughing while the 367 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: other appears to be about to grab dear God. Yeah so. 368 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: McDonald's also describes how during the early days of her 369 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: career she was verbally harassed, masturbated at, and sexually assaulted. 370 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: She recalled how undergraduate women were referred to as quote 371 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: fresh meat. Uh. Woman she spoke to about this, I 372 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: shared a story about how she had been so happy 373 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: to be invited to a dinner with a prominent male scientist, 374 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: and she said, I accepted and thought we were heading 375 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: to a restaurant. Turns out we went to his house. 376 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: From there, he indicated I smelled bad and it would 377 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: be best if I took a shower. I thought it 378 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: was odd, but I decided to do it. While showering, 379 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: I looked up at the ceiling and I saw a 380 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: camera lens sticking out of one of the ceiling tiles, 381 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: and I could not believe my eyes. I gave the 382 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: camera a bird, so he knew I knew. I went out, 383 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: said nothing and had dinner. I left. I did not 384 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: confront him. I did not have the courage I wish 385 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: I had. I only saden to think he did this 386 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: too many women. It's humiliating to think he watched me. 387 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: Oh God. And another woman told her that a senior 388 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: male scientist told her that her career was game over 389 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: when she told him she was pregnant. Many others told 390 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: her they've been asked out by superiors and how they've 391 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: been afraid of the repercussions to their career if they 392 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: turned these men down. Uh. Pretty much every woman she 393 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: spoke to described experiencing at least light misogyny UH. Comments 394 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: asking who you slept with to get where you were, 395 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: or that they were, you know, strong for a girl, 396 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: observations about their bodies, doubts about their experience, and in 397 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: one example, a woman featured in Shark Week was called 398 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: by her first name despite being a doctor, while a 399 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: man who wasn't a doctor was referred to as a doctor. 400 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: And his last name, and being on Shark Week as 401 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: a shark scientist is obviously a huge career boost um 402 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: and a chance to get some visibility. So how ridiculously disrespectful? Yeah? Absolutely. 403 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: One study about Shark Week found that over the thirty 404 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: plus years it's been running, the experts were white or 405 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: white passing and identified as male. Here's a quote from 406 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: the study of the hosts and experts featured in more 407 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: than five episodes. There were more men who were non 408 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: scientists named Mike, and there were women of any name 409 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: or occupation that is really specific burns burns me up 410 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: non scientist name Mike. Okay, And initiative by the Atlantic 411 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: White Shark Conservacy called the Gills Club, founded by Cynthia 412 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: Wigan and Maryanne Long, fights against the stigma and discrimination 413 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: against woman instant in part because of the unfortunately accurate 414 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: gender gas presented in Shark Week. When Tiffany Huddish hosted 415 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: the thirty Shark Week, she was the first woman of 416 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: color to do so, so that had to be super recent. Yeah. Also, 417 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: sharks scientists have released a few studies that have shown 418 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: that Shark Week is negative in terms of the public 419 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: perceptions on sharks and often inaccurate. Another woman McDonald spoke 420 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: to created an educational program for girls in science, only 421 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: to find out a male supervisor was taking credit for 422 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: it in the media. When she confronted him. Quote, he 423 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: told me, I overestimated my contribution and that no point 424 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: should have felt ownership over my work. I considered fighting 425 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: and exposing him, but at the time that felt insurmountable. 426 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: He was protected by a massive institution and I was 427 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: protected by absolutely nothing. Over estimate made it wow okay 428 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: because of how shark field work works, often in remote locations, 429 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: in close quarters in mixed gender sleeping situations requiring physical 430 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: contact between scientists, especially when restraining an animal. There are 431 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: a lot of areas where sexual harassment assault can occur, 432 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: and the academic journal Nature Geoscience, which includes ocean science, 433 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: found that no real progress has been made in terms 434 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: of diversity for over forty years. Here's another quote from McDonald. 435 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: Becoming a scientist should not require developing the grit to 436 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: continually endure a missalogy. Discrimination, harassment, assault are bullying. But 437 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: from their earliest experiences, women scientists learned that if they complain, 438 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: they'll be described as difficult or a problem. If they're 439 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: heartbroken by how they're treated compared to their mail peers, 440 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: they'll be told they're too emotional and need to grow 441 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: a thicker skin. And if they leave the field, the 442 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: problem was them they weren't tough enough to hack it 443 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: in shark science, which unfortunately a lot of this ring 444 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: is true for several other fields we've talked about. We 445 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: just hear these stories over and over again. It's always 446 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: so infuriating and upsetting. Yeah, And you know what, I 447 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: was just thinking, like it probably top five things that 448 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: children will say about when they want to grow up. 449 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: Marine biologists is one of them. Veterinarian is another. But 450 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: the marine biologists always stuck in my mind because it 451 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: was almost like a running joke that everybody said this, 452 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: and I'm like, there's so much just a small field 453 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: in comparison to but perhaps it's more so that is 454 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: so little opportunity outside of white men that it feels 455 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: like it's such a small field and it shouldn't be, right, Yeah, 456 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: because osians are huge, right, Yeah, And a lot of 457 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: it's been undiscovered. There's so much to learn, especially now 458 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: when we've got like climate change and pollution and all 459 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: that stuff. Going on. Yeah, I wanted to be a 460 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: marine biologist and my cousin I had a cousin who 461 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: worked in it for a while. She had a really 462 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: cool wedding. I was not invited to it, but a 463 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: quarium or something, but she, I guess she succeeded. But 464 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: I know, it's just hearing these stories. Oh, it makes 465 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: me so angry. You know. One of the best stories 466 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: about sharks that I think I have watched recently, and 467 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: I think it was on the Dodo. A woman named 468 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: Christina Zinato goes and gets hooks out of shark's mouth 469 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: and she's a diver I believe has done this for years, 470 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: and she's even made friends with one that remembers her 471 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: and she would go and visit them. Yeah. Like it 472 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: was just the cutest little like video of her. She 473 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: recorded a year after year and they would run into 474 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: each other and she's like, this is my friend dada 475 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: um and she's been doing this for thirteen years and 476 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: she has this huge collection of hooks that she has 477 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: been able to remove from the mouth sharks. And I 478 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: was like, wow, that makes me like the sharks a 479 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: little more because eight they're the victim here and I 480 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: feel bad be she's so nice and that friendly. But 481 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, still know and that's okay, So that's okay. 482 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: But you know, we did go over quite a few 483 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: distressing facts in this one, but so so many of 484 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: the women's scientists and Shark Science are doing amazing things, 485 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of this did give me like hope, 486 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: Like I almost wasn't expecting to find this much information, 487 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: to be honest, right, but it's still yeah, we have 488 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: so much work to go and so so so many 489 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: of the scientists when we were researching this and Shark 490 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: Science of said they just didn't see themselves represented growing 491 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: up or not even really now. So still a lot 492 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: of work to do, and there are so many amazing 493 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: women in doing that great work. If we didn't mention one, 494 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: or if we didn't mention you and you happen to 495 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: be listening movies right in, we would love to hear 496 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: about the work you're doing are the work of someone 497 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 1: you know. And also we may return to some of 498 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: these women in the future to dig dig in deeper, 499 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: dive in deeper. Ah Hi. And then I just want 500 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: to include random shark rocks this Actually do really enjoy sharks. 501 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: They can have Virgin Verse. The sex is real rough 502 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: um and they have a sixth sense electro baptism which 503 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: is featured and jaws do probably yeah inaccurately, but it 504 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: isn't there. So listeners. As always, we would love to 505 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: hear from you if you would like the email as 506 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: you can our emails step Media, Mom and stuff at 507 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter 508 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: at MoMA Stuff Podcasts or Instagram and Stuff. I've Never 509 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: told you. Thanks, It's always star a super producer, Christina, 510 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: thank you. Thanks to you for listening. Stephone ever told 511 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: you the production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 512 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: when I Heart Radio, Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or 513 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,