Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2: It is Thursday, July the twenty fourth, and some said
Speaker 2: they wanted him to go to hell. Others said they
Speaker 2: have actually forgiven him. There was tears, there was anger
Speaker 2: in the courtroom and a powerful moment when one victim's
Speaker 2: dad rearranged the courtroom furniture, shall we say, and with that,
Speaker 2: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 1: Robes.
Speaker 2: We expected a lot yesterday from the sentencing hearing for
Speaker 2: Brian Colberger, of course, convicted now of killing those four
Speaker 2: University of Idaho students. We knew this was going to
Speaker 2: be a powerful day. And still it just makes your
Speaker 2: heart break all over again.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, every single parent out there had to
Speaker 3: just put themselves in these parent shoes, imagining what you
Speaker 3: would say and how you would feel staring down the person,
Speaker 3: the man who brutally murdered your child for no reason whatsoever,
Speaker 3: and the anticipation of either wanting to hear what he
Speaker 3: had to say, to offer some explanation, to give you
Speaker 3: some sense of understanding as to why it happened, and
Speaker 3: then getting nothing from him, absolutely nothing. Some people didn't
Speaker 3: want anything from him, but certainly some families expressed a
Speaker 3: desire to either hear an apology, here an explanation, here's
Speaker 3: something to try and make sense of something that was
Speaker 3: and will forever remain senseless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for a lot of folks book, this was
Speaker 2: a big day for these families. This was kind of
Speaker 2: the finality of this case. But there weren't surprises in
Speaker 2: regards to the sentence. Oftentimes we're standing by to see
Speaker 2: what the judge is going to do. No, this was
Speaker 2: a plea deal. We already knew he was going to
Speaker 2: get the four life sentences, no possibility of parole. I
Speaker 2: think there were other ten years hacked on for early
Speaker 2: So none of that was the surprise. The hope was
Speaker 2: going in that he would say something.
Speaker 1: Let's get that out of the way as well.
Speaker 2: He was robes, as we know, he was going to
Speaker 2: be asked, and the judge did do you have something
Speaker 2: to say? And he gave us the only words we're
Speaker 2: going to get from him in this case.
Speaker 3: I suppose, yeah, that he respect respectfully declined to speak.
Speaker 3: I respectfully decline, he he said in a soft voice.
Speaker 2: There was no from all descriptions robes and all, I mean,
Speaker 2: we had courtroom observers in there, but also we were
Speaker 2: able to see it on live stream.
Speaker 1: Like nothing from him.
Speaker 2: No, he had no nothing, not a reaction, not a nothing.
Speaker 3: People, I cannot, I don't even know how you keep
Speaker 3: a straight face like that, an expressionless face like that
Speaker 3: when people are calling you a monster, when people are sobbing,
Speaker 3: when you see your own mother crying, how you just
Speaker 3: are emotionless, expressionless? It that was incredibly eerie, frankly, to
Speaker 3: see his complete lack of emotion and just almost it
Speaker 3: was as if he was not even in his own body.
Speaker 2: It was we should say, and you and I have
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time in courts and courtrooms with tragedies,
Speaker 2: and we've looked several of us, we've watched them live
Speaker 2: on television.
Speaker 1: Before this set least was.
Speaker 2: This was non stop, almost constant emotion in tears from
Speaker 2: somebody in the courtroom, like as a collective, everybody seemed
Speaker 2: to be in tears, the judge, the prosecutor.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So for him to sit around all of what was
Speaker 2: just a non stop emotional tear fest, for him to
Speaker 2: have nothing is.
Speaker 1: I'm curious.
Speaker 2: But they say they're done with him, and maybe a
Speaker 2: lot of us should be as well.
Speaker 3: Look, I mean a lot of times, well so many
Speaker 3: times with school shootings. Covering these types of tragedies, we
Speaker 3: have made a point as a news organization not to
Speaker 3: even say the shooter's name other than the initial reporting
Speaker 3: day when people needed to know who it was, and
Speaker 3: then from then on you just refer to that person
Speaker 3: as the shooter because you don't want to give them
Speaker 3: any more fame because so often some of these people
Speaker 3: are seeking that, they're seeking infamy, they're seeking attention, they're
Speaker 3: seeks so to not give it to them as part
Speaker 3: of it. And some of the parents or some of
Speaker 3: the family members did go up and say, I'm forgetting you.
Speaker 3: You are only initials now to me. They didn't want
Speaker 3: to give him any more news coverage or any more
Speaker 3: attention than he deserves.
Speaker 2: I think one of the people, I can't remember which
Speaker 2: family member but actually said that to him, all these
Speaker 2: people that are here and all this attention, it's not
Speaker 2: for you, it's for them, it's for the kids, it's
Speaker 2: for the victims.
Speaker 1: I thought that.
Speaker 2: Was you know, I thought it seemed like and I
Speaker 2: know what he was saying there, but there is so
Speaker 2: much fascination and there has been so much attention, and
Speaker 2: we did get more details about Coburger. We're all wondering
Speaker 2: just why the hell and we had and we got
Speaker 2: more information yesterday because the gag order was lifted. But
Speaker 2: it was hard and we were pulling together, like how
Speaker 2: much do you want to talk about this guy?
Speaker 3: It's hard because we're fascinated by evil, because it's first
Speaker 3: of all, it's scary as hell to know that people
Speaker 3: like this guy are walking around. They could be your neighbor,
Speaker 3: they can be your classmate, they can be someone who
Speaker 3: you've allowed into your home unknowing what's actually deep within them.
Speaker 3: And so to try to understand him might be to
Speaker 3: try to understand evil, maybe to recognize it to prevent
Speaker 3: further crimes. I mean, I think that's where a lot
Speaker 3: of folks heads go, just to say, how could this happen?
Speaker 3: How can we prevent and how can I avoid or
Speaker 3: have my family avoid this sort of situation and literally
Speaker 3: to recognize evil.
Speaker 2: Really, right now, we don't know what we're dealing with. No,
Speaker 2: we don't know what to look out for the next time.
Speaker 2: We don't know the warning signs. We know nothing now
Speaker 2: from this guy.
Speaker 3: We heard from a you know, in some of the
Speaker 3: information that was released. We heard from someone who was
Speaker 3: talking to him on Tinder, We heard from a couple
Speaker 3: of his classmates. We actually heard from a few of
Speaker 3: his fellow cellmates. But still there's no there's no Aha.
Speaker 3: It's after the fact. They can say, yeah, he seemed creepy,
Speaker 3: Yeah he seems like a weirdo. Yeah he seems withdrawn.
Speaker 3: But there are plenty of people who are withdrawn and
Speaker 3: antisocial or socially awkward, and they're not evil, and they're
Speaker 3: not murderers.
Speaker 1: What is it? This came out as well.
Speaker 2: The prosecutor said this was not a serial killer in waiting,
Speaker 2: and went on to explain they went through his background
Speaker 2: obviously extensively. There's no there's nothing, certainly not a criminal record,
Speaker 2: but just coming.
Speaker 1: Up, was he violent? Was he this so that they said.
Speaker 2: There was he was not a serial killer and the
Speaker 2: signs were missed.
Speaker 3: He was exactly and he was a drug abuser. I
Speaker 3: believe he had a heroin addiction. He was in rehab
Speaker 3: and he had some burglary, you know, he was stealing
Speaker 3: phones and things like that to try and get money
Speaker 3: to pay for drugs. But short of that, there was nothing.
Speaker 3: And he was highly intelligent that was also very much
Speaker 3: a part of the discovery into him and what perhaps
Speaker 3: potentially made him tick. But he was highly intelligent, and
Speaker 3: that's it. There isn't really a list of oh okay,
Speaker 3: like you pointed out, they didn't miss anything. Even his
Speaker 3: own parents I'm sure couldn't have imagined he was capable
Speaker 3: of something like this, you know.
Speaker 2: So I guess that's enough to talk about him, because
Speaker 2: we did learn more about the victims as well.
Speaker 1: Yesterday.
Speaker 2: This was very, very difficult to listen to, and it's difficult,
Speaker 2: it'll be difficult for you to hear, but we're going
Speaker 2: to go through some of the tributes, some of the
Speaker 2: sweet moments that were said. Again, we had parents, friends,
Speaker 2: surviving roommates, aunties, grandparents, all got up and were able
Speaker 2: to say something. But it started with and the first
Speaker 2: two we're gonna start with here robes the surviving housemates. Now,
Speaker 2: these were the two who were left alive by Coburger,
Speaker 2: and we don't know.
Speaker 3: Why, and they don't know why.
Speaker 2: They don't know. But one wasn't there. It was Bethany Funk.
Speaker 2: She wasn't there, so somebody read a statement on her behalf.
Speaker 3: She said, I hate and still hate that they are gone,
Speaker 3: but for some reason, I am still here and I
Speaker 3: got to live. I still think about this every day.
Speaker 3: Why me? Why did I get to live and not them?
Speaker 3: For the longest time, I could not even look at
Speaker 3: their families without feeling sick with guilt. And that might
Speaker 3: explain why she wasn't in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't think about that yet. I didn't
Speaker 2: hear anything about why she chose not to.
Speaker 3: It just might have been too hard.
Speaker 2: It might have been You hear this oftentime where it's say,
Speaker 2: like natural disasters or I mean a plane crash something
Speaker 2: people have survivors guilt like why did those people die.
Speaker 1: And I didn't.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what this feels like. And to have
Speaker 2: no answers for why.
Speaker 3: It's no no, And the other surviving housemaid who did
Speaker 3: and who was there yesterday Dylan Morton's and she talked
Speaker 3: about Brian, saying he's a hollow vessel, something less than human.
Speaker 3: He tried to take everything from me, my friends, my safety,
Speaker 3: my identity, my future. And we did hear a little
Speaker 3: bit from some of this unsealed some of the unsealed
Speaker 3: documents that these two I don't remember which one of
Speaker 3: it was Dylan or Bethae. But they actually heard Kayley,
Speaker 3: one of the girls who was killed, say I think
Speaker 3: someone's in here, and they ran into their room and
Speaker 3: locked the door. Then they thought they heard someone sobbing.
Speaker 3: Then they thought they heard a man's voice speaking, and
Speaker 3: yet still they just they tried to call the phones
Speaker 3: of their roommates, but they were too afraid to leave
Speaker 3: their room.
Speaker 2: All this we learned now. I mean, it was a
Speaker 2: house of horrors that night, and so much we got
Speaker 2: from the stuff that has been released describing the scene
Speaker 2: that night.
Speaker 1: It's a whole horrific, horrific.
Speaker 3: One of the victims was stabbed fifty times. One of
Speaker 3: the other victims was stabbed thirty times, and to the
Speaker 3: point where they were unrecognizable. I mean, it's just it's disgusting.
Speaker 3: It's I can't imagine being in again the shoes of
Speaker 3: those parents and getting those details. It's unthinkable. But we
Speaker 3: also heard from so many family members. Mattie Mogan's stepfather,
Speaker 3: Scott talked about Mattie and saying this world was a
Speaker 3: better place with her in it. He talked about her mom.
Speaker 3: He said, Karen and I were ordinary people, but we
Speaker 3: lived extraordinary lives because of Mattie.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really cool way to put it,
Speaker 2: and to sum up your child. Yeah, I'm just I'm
Speaker 2: nothing here, but man, she made me special. She made
Speaker 2: my life special.
Speaker 1: That was a good way to put it. He he
Speaker 1: was one.
Speaker 2: I think several people kind of alluded to this in
Speaker 2: some way, that this person is insignificant and to be forgotten.
Speaker 2: And Scott Laramie said, that's for the defendant. We will
Speaker 2: not waste the words, nor will we nor will we
Speaker 2: fall into the hatred and bitterness. Evil has many faces
Speaker 2: and we now know this, but evil does not deserve
Speaker 2: our time and attention. That was a lot of that,
Speaker 2: and Mgen's grandmother got up as well, and this was
Speaker 2: the one, a short sentence that was so powerful. The
Speaker 2: foundation fell out of our world.
Speaker 3: That makes so much sense. I mean she talked about
Speaker 3: having now a stack of books on grief and having
Speaker 3: attended grief classes in therapy. I mean, you never get
Speaker 3: over the death of a child ever, and now they're
Speaker 3: having to deal with living without the people who, yes,
Speaker 3: were their foundation. Madison Mogan's dad, and he talked about
Speaker 3: his substance abuse. He talked about how she was the
Speaker 3: reason why he lived while he fought to see another day,
Speaker 3: why he worked so hard to to basically win his
Speaker 3: battle against addiction. But he said she was the only
Speaker 3: great thing I ever really did. Oh that makes me. Oh,
Speaker 3: that chokes me up, and the only thing I was
Speaker 3: ever really proud of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, he's been through some things, you could tell,
Speaker 2: and you can tell looking at that girl, like, Wow,
Speaker 2: she came from love. She's a good kid. I got
Speaker 2: something right and that thing is gone from him now
Speaker 2: that stuff comes through in some of these words. Now
Speaker 2: the next one here and help me.
Speaker 1: I keep messing up.
Speaker 3: The last name Kaylee gun Salves and her family has
Speaker 3: been very outspoken since the murders, and they have been
Speaker 3: very outspoken about their displeasure about this deal that was
Speaker 3: made to spare him from the death penalty, and they
Speaker 3: had been outspoken about not getting information. So I mean,
Speaker 3: this is a family that is in the throes of grief.
Speaker 3: But they're angry, and you could hear from the father, Steve,
Speaker 3: the sister, and the mom all they are angry.
Speaker 2: And Steve, the dad, is the one who changed things
Speaker 2: up in the courtroom. He changed the tone in the
Speaker 2: courtroom when he rearranged some of the court room furniture.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
Speaker 3: where we are talking about the sentencing hearing for Brian
Speaker 3: Comberger and the grief and the anger that was in
Speaker 3: that courtroom from the parents and the family members and
Speaker 3: the people who loved those four victims who were senselessly
Speaker 3: murdered by this thirty year old PhD student with zero reason,
Speaker 3: zero explanation Z, zero connection to any of the victims.
Speaker 3: But it was Kaylee. It was Kaylee Guncal Sorry, I
Speaker 3: now I'm messing up her name, as well as Kaylee Gunsalvez,
Speaker 3: Kaylee Gonzalvez's father, who really created a moment. There were
Speaker 3: many moments, but really created a moment.
Speaker 2: You're supposed to I think people will remember this that
Speaker 2: I think I can't remember the judge did in this case.
Speaker 2: But you're addressing the court. You're not supposed to be
Speaker 2: directly addressing anybody else.
Speaker 1: In the court.
Speaker 2: So the podium that they stand they speak at, is
Speaker 2: on the floor and directed towards the bench. Essentially the
Speaker 2: jujudges Yeah, and Steve Gunsalves physically grabbed that podium and
Speaker 2: turned it in the direction of the defendant Coburger, to
Speaker 2: speak to him directly. Now Robes, the judge would have
Speaker 2: been perfectly within his right to say, turn that back,
Speaker 2: you address the court.
Speaker 1: You're not going to do that. Judge didn't stop them.
Speaker 3: I'm not upset about that.
Speaker 1: Judge didn't stop.
Speaker 3: And you know that was his moment. Everything had been
Speaker 3: taken from him, His power had been taken from him,
Speaker 3: his beautiful daughter had been taken from him. Like give
Speaker 3: him that that moment, and he did.
Speaker 2: And after that there were a lot of moments that
Speaker 2: I guess involve more anger and direct speak if you
Speaker 2: will to Coburger. But Kaylee's dad said this, nobody cares
Speaker 2: about you. You're not worth the time, the effort to
Speaker 2: be remembered. In time, you will be nothing but two
Speaker 2: initials forgotten to the wind, no visitors, nothing more than
Speaker 2: initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone. And again from here
Speaker 2: on now there, I guess after this it felt like
Speaker 2: everybody else felt a.
Speaker 1: Little more in bolded.
Speaker 2: They already had their statements ready, but after this the
Speaker 2: tone was was very angry.
Speaker 3: Because Kaylee's sister and Kaylee's mom, this family is angry,
Speaker 3: and so her sister said this to Brian, disappointments like
Speaker 3: you thrive on pain, I won't feed your beast. Instead,
Speaker 3: I will call you what you are, sociopath, psychopath, murderer.
Speaker 3: And she said, you want the truth, here's the one
Speaker 3: you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in
Speaker 3: their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile,
Speaker 3: Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. And the courtroom
Speaker 3: actually applauded after she said that Kaylee's mom she had
Speaker 3: something also just very I mean just you could just
Speaker 3: feel her pain in these words. She said this to him.
Speaker 3: When those prison doors slam shut behind you, I hope
Speaker 3: that sound echoes in your heart for the rest of
Speaker 3: your meaningless days. I hope it reminds you of what
Speaker 3: we already know, your nothing. May you continue to live
Speaker 3: your life in misery. But it's okay because they're to help.
Speaker 3: They're there to help you. Hell will be waiting, and
Speaker 3: she said, but it's okay because they're there to help you.
Speaker 3: She actually took the words that one of the roommates
Speaker 3: said she thought she heard him say to Kaylee to
Speaker 3: her daughter, and so she used that same phrase against
Speaker 3: him when she addressed him.
Speaker 2: Well, God, Mattiemgen's mom got up. I just want to
Speaker 2: mention this because this is something again, a lot of
Speaker 2: people can relate to. We don't keep this in mind enough.
Speaker 2: She said, those who commit evil for their own twisted
Speaker 2: gains and purposes truly defile the efforts and sacrifices of mothers, fathers, families, teachers, clergy,
Speaker 2: public servants, service members, and all those who commit themselves.
Speaker 1: To the greater good.
Speaker 2: She was making a reference about the light, and she
Speaker 2: put this together in such a way when you it's
Speaker 2: not just a family, right, how many people in your
Speaker 2: life right now are you coming up? This was a
Speaker 2: team effort to get you through elementary school, high school, college,
Speaker 2: whether that's aunts, whether that you can remember some pastor somewhere,
Speaker 2: you can remember teacher somewhere. But she went through and
Speaker 2: listed like you robbed not this fan, you robbed a
Speaker 2: community that had invested in this girl. I thought that
Speaker 2: was a great line from Karen Laramie as her name,
Speaker 2: that's a Matti Mugen's mom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she talked about Mattie's beauty. She said, both inside,
Speaker 3: outside and in shown its light upon everyone with whom
Speaker 3: she came in content, and she said, Maddie carried that
Speaker 3: hope and light into the future for our entire family.
Speaker 3: And that's it's just it's gutting to think about the
Speaker 3: futures that will no longer happen. The future is that
Speaker 3: investment that that community and her family put into her
Speaker 3: just cut short.
Speaker 2: And the This one's tough of Xana Karnodle's dad. He's
Speaker 2: going to be dealing with this with the rest of
Speaker 2: his life, obviously losing his daughter.
Speaker 1: But he I didn't know this.
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard the story before that she wasn't feeling
Speaker 2: well that night and it actually called her dad, don't
Speaker 2: have the right end was considering I think he said
Speaker 2: only lived seven minutes away or seven miles either way,
Speaker 2: He's very close, and he didn't go by. And she
Speaker 2: was the one that encouraged.
Speaker 3: Him not to because he had had a couple drinks,
Speaker 3: you know, and she didn't. Yeah, and so oh, I
Speaker 3: mean that to know that you would have been there,
Speaker 3: could have been there, should have been there, maybe even
Speaker 3: and you could have stopped it. So Xana's dad said this,
Speaker 3: I would have been sitting right there on that couch
Speaker 3: and I regret that and I regret not going, But
Speaker 3: the reason why I didn't is because she said, Dad,
Speaker 3: don't be drinking and driving.
Speaker 2: That's a tough one we had to hear in court yesterday.
Speaker 1: I thought this is interesting.
Speaker 2: Her aunt, Kim aunt also spoke and I'm and I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if she was serious, and maybe she actually was.
Speaker 2: She said to him, anytime you want to talk and
Speaker 2: tell me what happened, get my number. I'm here, no judgment.
Speaker 2: I'll be the one who listens.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Because what she suggesting, there were so many other family
Speaker 2: members like I don't want to hear his voice. I
Speaker 2: don't want to hear anything from him. Others are saying, yes,
Speaker 2: I want to hear It almost sounds like she was
Speaker 2: volunteering to be the one who has to listen on
Speaker 2: behalf of everybody.
Speaker 3: It makes sense, though, like I don't think any I
Speaker 3: don't know that any parent. I don't think I could
Speaker 3: hear that directly, and I certainly wouldn't want to be
Speaker 3: engaged in any kind of conversation with someone who had
Speaker 3: done that to my daughter. But maybe if you're just
Speaker 3: a little bit removed, you're an aunt, and you can
Speaker 3: take that for your sister or your brother and you
Speaker 3: can bring That makes a lot of sense to me
Speaker 3: that you can have just enough of a removal that
Speaker 3: you could process it, you could emotionally distance yourself from
Speaker 3: it enough to give that gift back to your family
Speaker 3: if there was something that could be explained, if there
Speaker 3: was something, any nugget that could give them any peace
Speaker 3: or any sort of closure.
Speaker 2: A couple more here from Xana's family here than a anerdle.
Speaker 1: I'm saying that correctly. Yes to hope.
Speaker 2: Dad was angry here and this is her Stepdad was
Speaker 2: actually pointing at Coburg at the time when he was
Speaker 2: saying this, but he said, there's no place for you
Speaker 2: in heaven.
Speaker 1: You took our children. You are going to suffer.
Speaker 2: I am shaking because I want to reach out to you.
Speaker 1: Go to hell oof.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't, like I can't imagine feeling anything
Speaker 3: but wanting to cause harm to him, physical harm to him,
Speaker 3: emotional harm to him. And you could hear with some
Speaker 3: of the words that some family members were choosing. They
Speaker 3: wanted to try and give him as much pain as possible.
Speaker 3: And I understand that. I understand that Sana's mom said,
Speaker 3: I pray before this life is over that you ask
Speaker 3: our Lord and Savior in your heart to forgive you.
Speaker 3: I do pray for that. But after today I wash
Speaker 3: my hands of you, and you are no longer a thing.
Speaker 2: It's been three years from them. That is very, very
Speaker 2: difficult to imagine that they will deal with the pain
Speaker 2: of the loss of their child for a long time.
Speaker 2: But to have to try to put out of your
Speaker 2: mind or forget about or put away this guy and
Speaker 2: your anger at this guy and what he took from
Speaker 2: you is ah, look, guy, Hart goes out to him
Speaker 2: to pull that off. But what a day it was
Speaker 2: in court, and again the judge at times was described
Speaker 2: by some as wiping away tears at times, and he
Speaker 2: as well had strong words for the defendant. Oftentimes judges
Speaker 2: do do this before, said they're fair during the trial,
Speaker 2: and you know they call it as the referee. But
Speaker 2: this was his chance to unload a little bit as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. He said. The loss this killer inflicted
Speaker 3: was not just the death of these people's children, siblings, grandchildren,
Speaker 3: as we've heard today. It has ripped a hole in
Speaker 3: their soul, destroying a special part of their very essence.
Speaker 3: There is no reason for these crimes that could approach
Speaker 3: anything resembling rationality. In my view, the time has now
Speaker 3: come to end for mister Coburger's fifteen minutes of fame.
Speaker 3: It's time that he'd be consigned to the ignominy and
Speaker 3: isolation of perpetual Incarceration's it.
Speaker 1: It's over.
Speaker 2: Will we ever hear from him again? Maybe there'll be
Speaker 2: folks for years trying to get a jail house interview
Speaker 2: or get him to write letters or some type of things.
Speaker 2: We may hear from him again, and you know when
Speaker 2: he does. If he does, man, that is going to
Speaker 2: rip another new wound for these folks.
Speaker 3: Yes, it certainly is. And in terms of him not
Speaker 3: speaking and so many people wanting to hear him say something,
Speaker 3: give some explanation, the prosecutor took the time to defend
Speaker 3: their decision because they could have insisted that he gives
Speaker 3: some reason or some sort of motive in exchange for
Speaker 3: the plea deal that they made with him so that
Speaker 3: he could avoid the death penalty. But this is what
Speaker 3: the prosecutor said. He said, I don't believe there's anything
Speaker 3: that would have come out of his mouth that would
Speaker 3: be the truth. I don't believe there's anything that would
Speaker 3: come out of his mouth that would be anything other
Speaker 3: than self serving. And I don't believe there's anything that
Speaker 3: would come out of his mouth that would not further
Speaker 3: victimize the families. And so that just simply wasn't a factor.
Speaker 3: Kaylee Goun saw his father still after the sentencing hearing,
Speaker 3: still was not okay with that, and he said the
Speaker 3: negotiation that meaning the deal was not justice, it was
Speaker 3: a shortcut. We said from the very beginning, we're not
Speaker 3: interested in a short cut for our daughter. We wanted everything.
Speaker 3: And I get that that's fair.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's what they said they want. I actually
Speaker 2: don't know, and you can tell me if you've seen
Speaker 2: it somewhere if they consulted with like they don't give
Speaker 2: them the well, oftentimes yes, prosecutors do give the family
Speaker 2: a choice, would you.
Speaker 1: Like to do this or this.
Speaker 3: I have seen actually a recent victim, specifically with Kaylee's father,
Speaker 3: and they said they were shut out, kept in the
Speaker 3: dark not only from the details of the crime to
Speaker 3: the information they had on Coburger, but also when it
Speaker 3: came to any negotiations that were being made, and they
Speaker 3: were extremely upset about that.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: Also, one of the nuggets note from the court yesterday.
Speaker 2: I mean, Coburger's mom was in the courtroom and cried
Speaker 2: pretty consistently at a number of times when I think,
Speaker 2: in particular, when one of the victims' family members got
Speaker 2: up and was talking about the shame he brought to
Speaker 2: the Coburger name, she was in tears. But she was
Speaker 2: in tears during a lot of these statements. What she's
Speaker 2: going through, what she's feeling, how people are directing maybe
Speaker 2: anger towards her, don't know. But she sat in that
Speaker 2: courtroom as a as a mama does. Right, doesn't a
Speaker 2: mother always show up for the kid no matter what.
Speaker 2: I know how horrific this is, but she is still
Speaker 2: in there, maybe to show support or in some way
Speaker 2: even for the victims.
Speaker 1: She showed up.
Speaker 3: She showed up, and I do think. Look, I can
Speaker 3: only speak from my vantage point as a mom, though,
Speaker 3: but the amount of guilt, the incredible guilt you would
Speaker 3: carry with you for the rest of for life, thinking
Speaker 3: what did I do wrong? What signs did I miss?
Speaker 3: How did I give birth to and raise a monster?
Speaker 3: Because there's no other word to use for this. He
Speaker 3: is a monster.
Speaker 2: We got a lot of details that we're just not
Speaker 2: going to get into here because it was a big
Speaker 2: lift of the police report. The gag order was lifted,
Speaker 2: I mean, and some of the details about the scene
Speaker 2: are just horrific what these kids went through, just.
Speaker 1: How just how violent this was.
Speaker 2: Yes, there can be degrees to violence when it comes
Speaker 2: to stabbing, this was overkill.
Speaker 1: Some of the things they describe here.
Speaker 2: There'll be time and a place for all of that,
Speaker 2: but we just wanted to hop on here and give
Speaker 2: you some of the words and from the family members
Speaker 2: who lost so much in a story we have all
Speaker 2: kept an eye on for the past several years. This
Speaker 2: is some level of closure for the family today.
Speaker 3: It is some level of closure. And I've trying to
Speaker 3: think of any takeaway. You know, We've had to cover
Speaker 3: so many of these awful stories. This is among the worst, though,
Speaker 3: because I think because there is no explanation, there is
Speaker 3: no rationality, there was no love triangle, there was no
Speaker 3: nothing that you could say, Okay, that's what made him snap,
Speaker 3: that's what that's why he did this, and so it
Speaker 3: is so senseless and I think the only takeaway I
Speaker 3: can take from this and this is how I've had
Speaker 3: to kind of go through being a parent and also
Speaker 3: covering these awful things is to say, hug your kids,
Speaker 3: tell them you love them. So much is out of
Speaker 3: our control. There's nothing anyone could have done to prevent
Speaker 3: this from what we can see or tell, and so
Speaker 3: all you can do is just make the most of
Speaker 3: the time you do have with the people you love,
Speaker 3: and to tell them you love them, and to spend
Speaker 3: as much joyful time you can with one another, recognizing
Speaker 3: that we never know what tomorrow brings, and there's so
Speaker 3: many Most of these things that happen in the world
Speaker 3: we can't prevent, we can't stop, and we can't anticipate.
Speaker 3: All we can do is love each other.
Speaker 1: This one's different.
Speaker 2: We've seen horrifics to and whether they say afterwards, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was a sign here and a person saw this
Speaker 2: and they didn't report that. They didn't think it was
Speaker 2: a big deal. That's one thing that was not a
Speaker 2: sign anybody ever suggested that was missed.
Speaker 1: And ropes. They are still to.
Speaker 2: Your all your points there about you never know when
Speaker 2: things are out of your control. They are still not
Speaker 2: one single link they can find between Coburger and these
Speaker 2: four victims that not a social media post, not a past,
Speaker 2: each other in a coffee shop. Nothing, And that is
Speaker 2: difficult to think that just sometimes bad shit happens, like horrific,
Speaker 2: evil shit happens, really to these four, it just we
Speaker 2: will We cannot get our heads around it. Bab can't
Speaker 2: get mady. We can prepare for all kinds of stuff,
Speaker 2: How do you prepare for maniac you've never heard from?
Speaker 2: Just come in and killing for no reason?
Speaker 3: You can't, you can't. All we can do. All we
Speaker 3: can do is hug each other, love each other, and
Speaker 3: make the most out of every moment we have each
Speaker 3: and every day when we hear stories like this, So
Speaker 3: thank you for listening to us. We'll hopefully be able
Speaker 3: to hop back on with maybe something less dark. But
Speaker 3: there are lessons in all tragedies, and we hope you
Speaker 3: have a beautiful, blessed day to day. Thanks for listening
Speaker 3: to us. I may be robot on behalf of my
Speaker 3: partner T. J. Holmes. We'll see you soon.