1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 2: It is Thursday, July the twenty fourth, and some said 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 2: they wanted him to go to hell. Others said they 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: have actually forgiven him. There was tears, there was anger 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: in the courtroom and a powerful moment when one victim's 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: dad rearranged the courtroom furniture, shall we say, and with that, 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: Robes. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: We expected a lot yesterday from the sentencing hearing for 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: Brian Colberger, of course, convicted now of killing those four 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: University of Idaho students. We knew this was going to 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: be a powerful day. And still it just makes your 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: heart break all over again. 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, every single parent out there had to 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 3: just put themselves in these parent shoes, imagining what you 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: would say and how you would feel staring down the person, 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 3: the man who brutally murdered your child for no reason whatsoever, 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: and the anticipation of either wanting to hear what he 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 3: had to say, to offer some explanation, to give you 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 3: some sense of understanding as to why it happened, and 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: then getting nothing from him, absolutely nothing. Some people didn't 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: want anything from him, but certainly some families expressed a 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: desire to either hear an apology, here an explanation, here's 24 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 3: something to try and make sense of something that was 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 3: and will forever remain senseless. 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and for a lot of folks book, this was 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: a big day for these families. This was kind of 28 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: the finality of this case. But there weren't surprises in 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: regards to the sentence. Oftentimes we're standing by to see 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: what the judge is going to do. No, this was 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: a plea deal. We already knew he was going to 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: get the four life sentences, no possibility of parole. I 33 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: think there were other ten years hacked on for early 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: So none of that was the surprise. The hope was 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: going in that he would say something. 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: Let's get that out of the way as well. 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: He was robes, as we know, he was going to 38 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: be asked, and the judge did do you have something 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: to say? And he gave us the only words we're 40 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 2: going to get from him in this case. 41 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: I suppose, yeah, that he respect respectfully declined to speak. 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: I respectfully decline, he he said in a soft voice. 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: There was no from all descriptions robes and all, I mean, 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: we had courtroom observers in there, but also we were 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: able to see it on live stream. 46 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Like nothing from him. 47 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: No, he had no nothing, not a reaction, not a nothing. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: People, I cannot, I don't even know how you keep 49 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 3: a straight face like that, an expressionless face like that 50 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: when people are calling you a monster, when people are sobbing, 51 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: when you see your own mother crying, how you just 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: are emotionless, expressionless? It that was incredibly eerie, frankly, to 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 3: see his complete lack of emotion and just almost it 54 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 3: was as if he was not even in his own body. 55 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: It was we should say, and you and I have 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time in courts and courtrooms with tragedies, 57 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: and we've looked several of us, we've watched them live 58 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 2: on television. 59 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: Before this set least was. 60 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: This was non stop, almost constant emotion in tears from 61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: somebody in the courtroom, like as a collective, everybody seemed 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: to be in tears, the judge, the prosecutor. 63 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: So for him to sit around all of what was 65 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: just a non stop emotional tear fest, for him to 66 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: have nothing is. 67 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious. 68 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: But they say they're done with him, and maybe a 69 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: lot of us should be as well. 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: Look, I mean a lot of times, well so many 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: times with school shootings. Covering these types of tragedies, we 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: have made a point as a news organization not to 73 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: even say the shooter's name other than the initial reporting 74 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 3: day when people needed to know who it was, and 75 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: then from then on you just refer to that person 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: as the shooter because you don't want to give them 77 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: any more fame because so often some of these people 78 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: are seeking that, they're seeking infamy, they're seeking attention, they're 79 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: seeks so to not give it to them as part 80 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 3: of it. And some of the parents or some of 81 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 3: the family members did go up and say, I'm forgetting you. 82 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: You are only initials now to me. They didn't want 83 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 3: to give him any more news coverage or any more 84 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 3: attention than he deserves. 85 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: I think one of the people, I can't remember which 86 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: family member but actually said that to him, all these 87 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: people that are here and all this attention, it's not 88 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: for you, it's for them, it's for the kids, it's 89 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: for the victims. 90 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: I thought that. 91 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: Was you know, I thought it seemed like and I 92 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: know what he was saying there, but there is so 93 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: much fascination and there has been so much attention, and 94 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: we did get more details about Coburger. We're all wondering 95 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: just why the hell and we had and we got 96 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: more information yesterday because the gag order was lifted. But 97 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: it was hard and we were pulling together, like how 98 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: much do you want to talk about this guy? 99 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 3: It's hard because we're fascinated by evil, because it's first 100 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 3: of all, it's scary as hell to know that people 101 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 3: like this guy are walking around. They could be your neighbor, 102 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 3: they can be your classmate, they can be someone who 103 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: you've allowed into your home unknowing what's actually deep within them. 104 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: And so to try to understand him might be to 105 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: try to understand evil, maybe to recognize it to prevent 106 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: further crimes. I mean, I think that's where a lot 107 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: of folks heads go, just to say, how could this happen? 108 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: How can we prevent and how can I avoid or 109 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: have my family avoid this sort of situation and literally 110 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 3: to recognize evil. 111 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: Really, right now, we don't know what we're dealing with. No, 112 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: we don't know what to look out for the next time. 113 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 2: We don't know the warning signs. We know nothing now 114 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: from this guy. 115 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: We heard from a you know, in some of the 116 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: information that was released. We heard from someone who was 117 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: talking to him on Tinder, We heard from a couple 118 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: of his classmates. We actually heard from a few of 119 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 3: his fellow cellmates. But still there's no there's no Aha. 120 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: It's after the fact. They can say, yeah, he seemed creepy, 121 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 3: Yeah he seems like a weirdo. Yeah he seems withdrawn. 122 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 3: But there are plenty of people who are withdrawn and 123 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: antisocial or socially awkward, and they're not evil, and they're 124 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: not murderers. 125 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: What is it? This came out as well. 126 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: The prosecutor said this was not a serial killer in waiting, 127 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: and went on to explain they went through his background 128 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: obviously extensively. There's no there's nothing, certainly not a criminal record, 129 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: but just coming. 130 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: Up, was he violent? Was he this so that they said. 131 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: There was he was not a serial killer and the 132 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: signs were missed. 133 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: He was exactly and he was a drug abuser. I 134 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: believe he had a heroin addiction. He was in rehab 135 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: and he had some burglary, you know, he was stealing 136 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 3: phones and things like that to try and get money 137 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: to pay for drugs. But short of that, there was nothing. 138 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: And he was highly intelligent that was also very much 139 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: a part of the discovery into him and what perhaps 140 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: potentially made him tick. But he was highly intelligent, and 141 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 3: that's it. There isn't really a list of oh okay, 142 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 3: like you pointed out, they didn't miss anything. Even his 143 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: own parents I'm sure couldn't have imagined he was capable 144 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: of something like this, you know. 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: So I guess that's enough to talk about him, because 146 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: we did learn more about the victims as well. 147 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: Yesterday. 148 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: This was very, very difficult to listen to, and it's difficult, 149 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: it'll be difficult for you to hear, but we're going 150 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: to go through some of the tributes, some of the 151 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: sweet moments that were said. Again, we had parents, friends, 152 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: surviving roommates, aunties, grandparents, all got up and were able 153 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: to say something. But it started with and the first 154 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: two we're gonna start with here robes the surviving housemates. Now, 155 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: these were the two who were left alive by Coburger, 156 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: and we don't know. 157 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: Why, and they don't know why. 158 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: They don't know. But one wasn't there. It was Bethany Funk. 159 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: She wasn't there, so somebody read a statement on her behalf. 160 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 3: She said, I hate and still hate that they are gone, 161 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: but for some reason, I am still here and I 162 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: got to live. I still think about this every day. 163 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: Why me? Why did I get to live and not them? 164 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: For the longest time, I could not even look at 165 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 3: their families without feeling sick with guilt. And that might 166 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: explain why she wasn't in the courtroom. 167 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: You know, I didn't think about that yet. I didn't 168 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: hear anything about why she chose not to. 169 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 3: It just might have been too hard. 170 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: It might have been You hear this oftentime where it's say, 171 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: like natural disasters or I mean a plane crash something 172 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: people have survivors guilt like why did those people die. 173 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: And I didn't. 174 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: I can't imagine what this feels like. And to have 175 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,119 Speaker 2: no answers for why. 176 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: It's no no, And the other surviving housemaid who did 177 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: and who was there yesterday Dylan Morton's and she talked 178 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 3: about Brian, saying he's a hollow vessel, something less than human. 179 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 3: He tried to take everything from me, my friends, my safety, 180 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: my identity, my future. And we did hear a little 181 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: bit from some of this unsealed some of the unsealed 182 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 3: documents that these two I don't remember which one of 183 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: it was Dylan or Bethae. But they actually heard Kayley, 184 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: one of the girls who was killed, say I think 185 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: someone's in here, and they ran into their room and 186 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 3: locked the door. Then they thought they heard someone sobbing. 187 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: Then they thought they heard a man's voice speaking, and 188 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 3: yet still they just they tried to call the phones 189 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 3: of their roommates, but they were too afraid to leave 190 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: their room. 191 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: All this we learned now. I mean, it was a 192 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: house of horrors that night, and so much we got 193 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 2: from the stuff that has been released describing the scene 194 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: that night. 195 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: It's a whole horrific, horrific. 196 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: One of the victims was stabbed fifty times. One of 197 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: the other victims was stabbed thirty times, and to the 198 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,359 Speaker 3: point where they were unrecognizable. I mean, it's just it's disgusting. 199 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: It's I can't imagine being in again the shoes of 200 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 3: those parents and getting those details. It's unthinkable. But we 201 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: also heard from so many family members. Mattie Mogan's stepfather, 202 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: Scott talked about Mattie and saying this world was a 203 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: better place with her in it. He talked about her mom. 204 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: He said, Karen and I were ordinary people, but we 205 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 3: lived extraordinary lives because of Mattie. 206 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: I thought that was a really cool way to put it, 207 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: and to sum up your child. Yeah, I'm just I'm 208 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: nothing here, but man, she made me special. She made 209 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: my life special. 210 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: That was a good way to put it. He he 211 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: was one. 212 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 2: I think several people kind of alluded to this in 213 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 2: some way, that this person is insignificant and to be forgotten. 214 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: And Scott Laramie said, that's for the defendant. We will 215 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: not waste the words, nor will we nor will we 216 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: fall into the hatred and bitterness. Evil has many faces 217 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: and we now know this, but evil does not deserve 218 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: our time and attention. That was a lot of that, 219 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: and Mgen's grandmother got up as well, and this was 220 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: the one, a short sentence that was so powerful. The 221 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: foundation fell out of our world. 222 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: That makes so much sense. I mean she talked about 223 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: having now a stack of books on grief and having 224 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: attended grief classes in therapy. I mean, you never get 225 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: over the death of a child ever, and now they're 226 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: having to deal with living without the people who, yes, 227 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: were their foundation. Madison Mogan's dad, and he talked about 228 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 3: his substance abuse. He talked about how she was the 229 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: reason why he lived while he fought to see another day, 230 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: why he worked so hard to to basically win his 231 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 3: battle against addiction. But he said she was the only 232 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: great thing I ever really did. Oh that makes me. Oh, 233 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: that chokes me up, and the only thing I was 234 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 3: ever really proud of. 235 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, he's been through some things, you could tell, 236 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: and you can tell looking at that girl, like, Wow, 237 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: she came from love. She's a good kid. I got 238 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: something right and that thing is gone from him now 239 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: that stuff comes through in some of these words. Now 240 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: the next one here and help me. 241 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: I keep messing up. 242 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: The last name Kaylee gun Salves and her family has 243 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: been very outspoken since the murders, and they have been 244 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: very outspoken about their displeasure about this deal that was 245 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 3: made to spare him from the death penalty, and they 246 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 3: had been outspoken about not getting information. So I mean, 247 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: this is a family that is in the throes of grief. 248 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: But they're angry, and you could hear from the father, Steve, 249 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: the sister, and the mom all they are angry. 250 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: And Steve, the dad, is the one who changed things 251 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: up in the courtroom. He changed the tone in the 252 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: courtroom when he rearranged some of the court room furniture. 253 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ, 254 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 3: where we are talking about the sentencing hearing for Brian 255 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 3: Comberger and the grief and the anger that was in 256 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 3: that courtroom from the parents and the family members and 257 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 3: the people who loved those four victims who were senselessly 258 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 3: murdered by this thirty year old PhD student with zero reason, 259 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: zero explanation Z, zero connection to any of the victims. 260 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: But it was Kaylee. It was Kaylee Guncal Sorry, I 261 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 3: now I'm messing up her name, as well as Kaylee Gunsalvez, 262 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: Kaylee Gonzalvez's father, who really created a moment. There were 263 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: many moments, but really created a moment. 264 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: You're supposed to I think people will remember this that 265 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 2: I think I can't remember the judge did in this case. 266 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: But you're addressing the court. You're not supposed to be 267 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: directly addressing anybody else. 268 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: In the court. 269 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: So the podium that they stand they speak at, is 270 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 2: on the floor and directed towards the bench. Essentially the 271 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: jujudges Yeah, and Steve Gunsalves physically grabbed that podium and 272 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: turned it in the direction of the defendant Coburger, to 273 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: speak to him directly. Now Robes, the judge would have 274 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: been perfectly within his right to say, turn that back, 275 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: you address the court. 276 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: You're not going to do that. Judge didn't stop them. 277 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: I'm not upset about that. 278 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: Judge didn't stop. 279 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: And you know that was his moment. Everything had been 280 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 3: taken from him, His power had been taken from him, 281 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 3: his beautiful daughter had been taken from him. Like give 282 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 3: him that that moment, and he did. 283 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 2: And after that there were a lot of moments that 284 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: I guess involve more anger and direct speak if you 285 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: will to Coburger. But Kaylee's dad said this, nobody cares 286 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: about you. You're not worth the time, the effort to 287 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: be remembered. In time, you will be nothing but two 288 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: initials forgotten to the wind, no visitors, nothing more than 289 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone. And again from here 290 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: on now there, I guess after this it felt like 291 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: everybody else felt a. 292 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: Little more in bolded. 293 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 2: They already had their statements ready, but after this the 294 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: tone was was very angry. 295 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: Because Kaylee's sister and Kaylee's mom, this family is angry, 296 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: and so her sister said this to Brian, disappointments like 297 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 3: you thrive on pain, I won't feed your beast. Instead, 298 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: I will call you what you are, sociopath, psychopath, murderer. 299 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: And she said, you want the truth, here's the one 300 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in 301 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 3: their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, 302 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. And the courtroom 303 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: actually applauded after she said that Kaylee's mom she had 304 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: something also just very I mean just you could just 305 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: feel her pain in these words. She said this to him. 306 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: When those prison doors slam shut behind you, I hope 307 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: that sound echoes in your heart for the rest of 308 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 3: your meaningless days. I hope it reminds you of what 309 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 3: we already know, your nothing. May you continue to live 310 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: your life in misery. But it's okay because they're to help. 311 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: They're there to help you. Hell will be waiting, and 312 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: she said, but it's okay because they're there to help you. 313 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: She actually took the words that one of the roommates 314 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 3: said she thought she heard him say to Kaylee to 315 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 3: her daughter, and so she used that same phrase against 316 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: him when she addressed him. 317 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: Well, God, Mattiemgen's mom got up. I just want to 318 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: mention this because this is something again, a lot of 319 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: people can relate to. We don't keep this in mind enough. 320 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: She said, those who commit evil for their own twisted 321 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: gains and purposes truly defile the efforts and sacrifices of mothers, fathers, families, teachers, clergy, 322 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: public servants, service members, and all those who commit themselves. 323 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: To the greater good. 324 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: She was making a reference about the light, and she 325 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: put this together in such a way when you it's 326 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: not just a family, right, how many people in your 327 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: life right now are you coming up? This was a 328 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: team effort to get you through elementary school, high school, college, 329 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: whether that's aunts, whether that you can remember some pastor somewhere, 330 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: you can remember teacher somewhere. But she went through and 331 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: listed like you robbed not this fan, you robbed a 332 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: community that had invested in this girl. I thought that 333 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: was a great line from Karen Laramie as her name, 334 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: that's a Matti Mugen's mom. 335 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, And she talked about Mattie's beauty. She said, both inside, 336 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: outside and in shown its light upon everyone with whom 337 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 3: she came in content, and she said, Maddie carried that 338 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 3: hope and light into the future for our entire family. 339 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: And that's it's just it's gutting to think about the 340 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 3: futures that will no longer happen. The future is that 341 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: investment that that community and her family put into her 342 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 3: just cut short. 343 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 2: And the This one's tough of Xana Karnodle's dad. He's 344 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: going to be dealing with this with the rest of 345 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: his life, obviously losing his daughter. 346 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: But he I didn't know this. 347 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: I hadn't heard the story before that she wasn't feeling 348 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 2: well that night and it actually called her dad, don't 349 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 2: have the right end was considering I think he said 350 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: only lived seven minutes away or seven miles either way, 351 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: He's very close, and he didn't go by. And she 352 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: was the one that encouraged. 353 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 3: Him not to because he had had a couple drinks, 354 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: you know, and she didn't. Yeah, and so oh, I 355 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: mean that to know that you would have been there, 356 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: could have been there, should have been there, maybe even 357 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: and you could have stopped it. So Xana's dad said this, 358 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: I would have been sitting right there on that couch 359 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: and I regret that and I regret not going, But 360 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 3: the reason why I didn't is because she said, Dad, 361 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: don't be drinking and driving. 362 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 2: That's a tough one we had to hear in court yesterday. 363 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: I thought this is interesting. 364 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: Her aunt, Kim aunt also spoke and I'm and I'm 365 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: not sure if she was serious, and maybe she actually was. 366 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 2: She said to him, anytime you want to talk and 367 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: tell me what happened, get my number. I'm here, no judgment. 368 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 2: I'll be the one who listens. 369 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: Now. 370 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: Because what she suggesting, there were so many other family 371 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 2: members like I don't want to hear his voice. I 372 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: don't want to hear anything from him. Others are saying, yes, 373 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: I want to hear It almost sounds like she was 374 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 2: volunteering to be the one who has to listen on 375 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: behalf of everybody. 376 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 3: It makes sense, though, like I don't think any I 377 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 3: don't know that any parent. I don't think I could 378 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: hear that directly, and I certainly wouldn't want to be 379 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 3: engaged in any kind of conversation with someone who had 380 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: done that to my daughter. But maybe if you're just 381 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 3: a little bit removed, you're an aunt, and you can 382 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 3: take that for your sister or your brother and you 383 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: can bring That makes a lot of sense to me 384 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 3: that you can have just enough of a removal that 385 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 3: you could process it, you could emotionally distance yourself from 386 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 3: it enough to give that gift back to your family 387 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 3: if there was something that could be explained, if there 388 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: was something, any nugget that could give them any peace 389 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: or any sort of closure. 390 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: A couple more here from Xana's family here than a anerdle. 391 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: I'm saying that correctly. Yes to hope. 392 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: Dad was angry here and this is her Stepdad was 393 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: actually pointing at Coburg at the time when he was 394 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: saying this, but he said, there's no place for you 395 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: in heaven. 396 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: You took our children. You are going to suffer. 397 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 2: I am shaking because I want to reach out to you. 398 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: Go to hell oof. 399 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you can't, like I can't imagine feeling anything 400 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 3: but wanting to cause harm to him, physical harm to him, 401 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 3: emotional harm to him. And you could hear with some 402 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: of the words that some family members were choosing. They 403 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 3: wanted to try and give him as much pain as possible. 404 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 3: And I understand that. I understand that Sana's mom said, 405 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: I pray before this life is over that you ask 406 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 3: our Lord and Savior in your heart to forgive you. 407 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 3: I do pray for that. But after today I wash 408 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: my hands of you, and you are no longer a thing. 409 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 2: It's been three years from them. That is very, very 410 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 2: difficult to imagine that they will deal with the pain 411 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: of the loss of their child for a long time. 412 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 2: But to have to try to put out of your 413 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: mind or forget about or put away this guy and 414 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: your anger at this guy and what he took from 415 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 2: you is ah, look, guy, Hart goes out to him 416 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 2: to pull that off. But what a day it was 417 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: in court, and again the judge at times was described 418 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: by some as wiping away tears at times, and he 419 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: as well had strong words for the defendant. Oftentimes judges 420 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 2: do do this before, said they're fair during the trial, 421 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 2: and you know they call it as the referee. But 422 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 2: this was his chance to unload a little bit as well. 423 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. He said. The loss this killer inflicted 424 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: was not just the death of these people's children, siblings, grandchildren, 425 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 3: as we've heard today. It has ripped a hole in 426 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 3: their soul, destroying a special part of their very essence. 427 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: There is no reason for these crimes that could approach 428 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: anything resembling rationality. In my view, the time has now 429 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 3: come to end for mister Coburger's fifteen minutes of fame. 430 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 3: It's time that he'd be consigned to the ignominy and 431 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 3: isolation of perpetual Incarceration's it. 432 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: It's over. 433 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: Will we ever hear from him again? Maybe there'll be 434 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: folks for years trying to get a jail house interview 435 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: or get him to write letters or some type of things. 436 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: We may hear from him again, and you know when 437 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 2: he does. If he does, man, that is going to 438 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: rip another new wound for these folks. 439 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 3: Yes, it certainly is. And in terms of him not 440 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 3: speaking and so many people wanting to hear him say something, 441 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 3: give some explanation, the prosecutor took the time to defend 442 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 3: their decision because they could have insisted that he gives 443 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 3: some reason or some sort of motive in exchange for 444 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 3: the plea deal that they made with him so that 445 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: he could avoid the death penalty. But this is what 446 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: the prosecutor said. He said, I don't believe there's anything 447 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 3: that would have come out of his mouth that would 448 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 3: be the truth. I don't believe there's anything that would 449 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 3: come out of his mouth that would be anything other 450 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: than self serving. And I don't believe there's anything that 451 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 3: would come out of his mouth that would not further 452 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: victimize the families. And so that just simply wasn't a factor. 453 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: Kaylee Goun saw his father still after the sentencing hearing, 454 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 3: still was not okay with that, and he said the 455 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 3: negotiation that meaning the deal was not justice, it was 456 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 3: a shortcut. We said from the very beginning, we're not 457 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 3: interested in a short cut for our daughter. We wanted everything. 458 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: And I get that that's fair. 459 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's what they said they want. I actually 460 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 2: don't know, and you can tell me if you've seen 461 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: it somewhere if they consulted with like they don't give 462 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: them the well, oftentimes yes, prosecutors do give the family 463 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 2: a choice, would you. 464 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: Like to do this or this. 465 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: I have seen actually a recent victim, specifically with Kaylee's father, 466 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 3: and they said they were shut out, kept in the 467 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 3: dark not only from the details of the crime to 468 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 3: the information they had on Coburger, but also when it 469 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 3: came to any negotiations that were being made, and they 470 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: were extremely upset about that. 471 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: Well. 472 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: Also, one of the nuggets note from the court yesterday. 473 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: I mean, Coburger's mom was in the courtroom and cried 474 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 2: pretty consistently at a number of times when I think, 475 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: in particular, when one of the victims' family members got 476 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: up and was talking about the shame he brought to 477 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: the Coburger name, she was in tears. But she was 478 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: in tears during a lot of these statements. What she's 479 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: going through, what she's feeling, how people are directing maybe 480 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: anger towards her, don't know. But she sat in that 481 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: courtroom as a as a mama does. Right, doesn't a 482 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: mother always show up for the kid no matter what. 483 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: I know how horrific this is, but she is still 484 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: in there, maybe to show support or in some way 485 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: even for the victims. 486 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 1: She showed up. 487 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: She showed up, and I do think. Look, I can 488 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 3: only speak from my vantage point as a mom, though, 489 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 3: but the amount of guilt, the incredible guilt you would 490 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 3: carry with you for the rest of for life, thinking 491 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 3: what did I do wrong? What signs did I miss? 492 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 3: How did I give birth to and raise a monster? 493 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: Because there's no other word to use for this. He 494 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 3: is a monster. 495 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 2: We got a lot of details that we're just not 496 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: going to get into here because it was a big 497 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 2: lift of the police report. The gag order was lifted, 498 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: I mean, and some of the details about the scene 499 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: are just horrific what these kids went through, just. 500 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: How just how violent this was. 501 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: Yes, there can be degrees to violence when it comes 502 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 2: to stabbing, this was overkill. 503 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: Some of the things they describe here. 504 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 2: There'll be time and a place for all of that, 505 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: but we just wanted to hop on here and give 506 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: you some of the words and from the family members 507 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: who lost so much in a story we have all 508 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: kept an eye on for the past several years. This 509 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: is some level of closure for the family today. 510 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 3: It is some level of closure. And I've trying to 511 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 3: think of any takeaway. You know, We've had to cover 512 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: so many of these awful stories. This is among the worst, though, 513 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 3: because I think because there is no explanation, there is 514 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: no rationality, there was no love triangle, there was no 515 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: nothing that you could say, Okay, that's what made him snap, 516 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 3: that's what that's why he did this, and so it 517 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: is so senseless and I think the only takeaway I 518 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 3: can take from this and this is how I've had 519 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: to kind of go through being a parent and also 520 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 3: covering these awful things is to say, hug your kids, 521 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: tell them you love them. So much is out of 522 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 3: our control. There's nothing anyone could have done to prevent 523 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: this from what we can see or tell, and so 524 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: all you can do is just make the most of 525 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: the time you do have with the people you love, 526 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 3: and to tell them you love them, and to spend 527 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 3: as much joyful time you can with one another, recognizing 528 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: that we never know what tomorrow brings, and there's so 529 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 3: many Most of these things that happen in the world 530 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: we can't prevent, we can't stop, and we can't anticipate. 531 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 3: All we can do is love each other. 532 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: This one's different. 533 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: We've seen horrifics to and whether they say afterwards, well, yeah, 534 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: there was a sign here and a person saw this 535 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 2: and they didn't report that. They didn't think it was 536 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: a big deal. That's one thing that was not a 537 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: sign anybody ever suggested that was missed. 538 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: And ropes. They are still to. 539 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 2: Your all your points there about you never know when 540 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: things are out of your control. They are still not 541 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 2: one single link they can find between Coburger and these 542 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 2: four victims that not a social media post, not a past, 543 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: each other in a coffee shop. Nothing, And that is 544 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: difficult to think that just sometimes bad shit happens, like horrific, 545 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: evil shit happens, really to these four, it just we 546 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: will We cannot get our heads around it. Bab can't 547 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: get mady. We can prepare for all kinds of stuff, 548 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: How do you prepare for maniac you've never heard from? 549 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: Just come in and killing for no reason? 550 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 3: You can't, you can't. All we can do. All we 551 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 3: can do is hug each other, love each other, and 552 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 3: make the most out of every moment we have each 553 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: and every day when we hear stories like this, So 554 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 3: thank you for listening to us. We'll hopefully be able 555 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 3: to hop back on with maybe something less dark. But 556 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 3: there are lessons in all tragedies, and we hope you 557 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 3: have a beautiful, blessed day to day. Thanks for listening 558 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: to us. I may be robot on behalf of my 559 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: partner T. J. Holmes. We'll see you soon.