WEBVTT - Mobits Extra: Mo’s Mystery Bust 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Hi everyone, it's mo. I hope you're enjoying Season three 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.640 of Mobituaries. Now, if you know anything about me, you 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.320 know that I'm pretty proud of my presidential memorabilia collection, 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.640 my Benjamin Harrison campaign, Neckerchief, my ticket to the Andrew 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:21.440 Johnson impeachment trial. I don't do first tier presidential memorabilia. 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.440 I'm all about the guys you can't remember were president, 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.960 which is why I was pretty shaken when years ago 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.560 it was brought to my attention that my giant Grover 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:36.839 Cleveland bust might not actually be Grover Cleveland. Then in 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.320 the summer of I was invited on PBS's Antiques road show. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.480 This was my chance to find out who this guy 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.279 I've been living with for over twenty years really was, 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.479 and it all came to a head, a very big 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:56.600 plaster head. This is a detective story with clues, suspects, 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.480 and a whole bunch of historical connections, including Grover Cleveland's grandson, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.760 all of it documented on an episode of Detours, a 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.080 podcast that reveals what happens to all that stuff on 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.919 America's favorite antiques show. Here is that episode of Detours 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:22.160 from g H and pr X when we set out 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.840 to film in the summer of two thousand twenty. For 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.039 the first time in the history of gb h's Antiques 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.200 Road Show. We couldn't go out on the road. It 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.360 was a pandemic, after all. But we still had to 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.760 make a TV show, so we tried something a little different, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.840 what we call Celebrity Edition. We went and visited the 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:46.679 homes and or near the homes of celebrities to find 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.920 out more about what they are. Here's my boss, Marcia Beemko. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.800 The promise that we made to get them to come 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.160 to shoot with road Show is that we're here to 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:03.880 answer the questions about whatever you're cure us about. One 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.640 of our stops, New York City, for a visit with 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.840 humorist Mo Rocca. I was thrilled and I knew exactly 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.640 where I wanted this to go and perfect for road Show. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.160 Mo had an object that he had questions about. I 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.440 looked right at my bust of who I then thought 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.960 was President Grover Cleveland, and I thought, you and me, baby, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:31.679 we are going to find out your worth and well 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:38.959 who you are. I'm Adam Monahan, a producer with g 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:44.120 v H is Antiques Road Show, and this is detoured today. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:59.760 Mo's mystery bust. Yeah, let's be clear. This is basically 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.760 a big mound of plaster that I that I managed 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.519 to balance on top of a column. Moe's object is 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.240 a large bust of a stern faced gentleman painted in 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.639 a coat of bronze. A chip on his face reveals 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.760 plaster beneath the paint, but that doesn't detract from the 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.000 air of importance he gives off. He sports a three 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:26.119 piece suit, a tie, and his defining feature a large, 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.120 bushy mustache. Moe remembers the day he came across the 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.000 bust well here he describes it while filming our celebrity series. 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.640 So cut to the summer of two thousand and I 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.200 went to visit my friends Christ and Madeleine on the 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.200 North Fork of New York's Long Island on a rainy afternoon. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.640 Chris took me into Greenport, nice town, and we saw 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.640 a place called Capel real Estate and antiques, not a 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.440 typical combination, but we went inside and that's where I 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.560 saw him. We passed by this ju the full old 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.760 building on a corner with gigantic windows. Most friend Chris, 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.200 and I'm pretty sure the bust was in the window. Um, 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.480 so we pulled over and went inside, and they sold 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.400 very little in the way of antique, like I think 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.839 there may have been a giant model ship and a 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:23.040 couple of pots and this bust. And Moe was intrigued 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.520 by the bust, and I think he started talking to 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.600 the proprietor about it, and I don't think I was 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.840 paying attention, and it really did not occur to me 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.080 that he was going to buy this thing. There was 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.520 a tag and it's a Grover Cleveland a hundred and 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:43.760 fifty dollars, and I thought, I just have to have him. 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.760 To really get why MO had to have a bust 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.560 of Grover Cleveland, you first have to understand most unique 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:55.159 interest in presidential history. I'm particularly interested in the presidents 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.960 that you can't remember were president, the guys between Lincoln 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.479 and Teddy Roosevelt. They've got a lot of faith shill hair. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.080 A couple of them were knocked off, one by an anarchist. 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.440 The other one among those guys is Grover Cleveland, who 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.679 had the distinct honor of serving as the twenty second 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.320 and twenty four president of the United States. And Grover 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.279 and Mo go way back. My attachment to Grover Cleveland 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.880 goes back to when I got on a bus to 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.360 visit Caldwell, New Jersey and the birthplace of Grover Cleveland. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.600 The docent there Sharon Barrell. She raised her family inside 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.120 of the Grover Cleveland birthplace. I was so taken with 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.040 the whole experience. I began going and visiting all these homes, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:42.200 and from there most love of lesser known presidents only blossomed. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.279 So I bought a one way ticket on US airways 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:51.880 in to Indianapolis to visit the home of Benjamin Harrison, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.320 our twenty third president. He's sort of the kind of 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.520 the meat in the Grover Cleveland sandwich. So a few 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.200 years later, when MO sees the bus tag Grover Cleveland 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.280 at the Long Island real estate slash antique shop, it 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.360 was like bumping into an old friend and well worth 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.080 the asking price of a hundred fifty dollars to bring 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.400 him home. I bought a pedestal because I couldn't have 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.359 him on the floor. I mean, he had been president 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.479 for two nonconsecutive terms. He doesn't belong on the floor. Um, 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:26.920 And he became a part of my life since that 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.720 fateful encounter, over twenty years ago. Moe has amassed a 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.120 collection of presidential memorabilia in his Greenwich Village apartment. What 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.120 was sold to me as a cocktail clock commemorating the 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:43.560 end of Prohibition in featuring FDR captaining the Ship if 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.880 you Will, a campaign neckerchief from the campaign of Benjamin 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.960 Harrison and his running mate Levi Morton, the Republican team 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:58.039 that ran in an admission ticket to the Senate impeachment 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.440 trial of our seventeenth President Andrew Johnson in April eight. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.280 And the anchor to the collection, the Grover Cleveland that 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.440 inspired it all, who overlooks the city from his perch 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.000 where he's basted in domestic bliss for almost fifteen years, 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:20.920 without his authenticity ever coming into question. Cut to in 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.320 The New York Times came to do a piece about 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.440 my apartment on a short little feature, and I introduced 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.120 them to Grover Cleveland. They took a picture of me 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.560 next to Grover Cleveland. But then I got a call 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.080 from the writer of the article and she said, um, hey, 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.440 we're just doing a little back checking, just want to 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.000 make sure that's Grover Cleveland. And I sort of reacted defensively, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:45.360 and I said, well, of course, it is who else 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.480 would it be? Sor? Okay, fine, fine, But then she 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.200 called back the next day and she said, you know, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:55.200 there's some concern that this isn't Grover Cleveland. My editor 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.239 has some questions about it. And I said, now listen, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.560 I'm telling you the tag on it said Grover Cleveland 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.640 back in two thousand when I bought him. So she 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.360 said okay, And then she called back the next day 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.760 again and she said, this has gone way up the 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.440 chain and there is concern at the highest levels that 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.160 this is not Grover Cleveland. And she said, why don't 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.800 we just call this a bust that Rockets says is 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.040 Grover Cleveland. I thought, all right, I can live with that, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.280 I guess, but the seed of doubt had been planted. 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.520 Was he living with Grover Cleveland or with a stranger? 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.400 And then I went to the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.960 Festival um where I met George Cleveland, the grandson of 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.520 Grover Cleveland. I thought, this is my chance, once and 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.120 for all to prove to myself in the New York 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.520 Times that this is Grover Cleveland. I showed him a 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.280 picture of the bust on my phone. He looked at it. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.480 He turned to me and he said, that's not my grandfather. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.320 When we come back, Road Show teams up with Mode 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.120 to figure out once and for all whose lightness Mo 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:10.719 has been living with for the past twenty years. One 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.640 of the most satisfying parts of my job is helping 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.120 guests get answers to their burning questions about the objects 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.880 they bring in. So, of course, when Mo agreed to 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.320 be on the show, I was eager to make good 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.960 on our promise to find out who the Grover Cleveland 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.800 bust was, if not Grover Cleveland. To do that, I 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.400 asked Mo to meet me at Lillian Nassau Gallery in 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.360 New York to visit with the praiser, Eric Silver. Moe 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.280 pulled up for the appraisal bust into on a little 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.160 red wagon secured by suspenders no less. So Moow, what 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:45.000 did you bring me today? Well, I brought you Grover 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.520 Cleveland or a bust of someone who I thought was 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.920 Grover Cleveland. Very much so. The piece has quite a 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.880 bit of quality and has a presence. So it was 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.719 done by a professional artist. It's not the work of 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.480 an amateur. I don't know if it's American, it could 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.120 be French. Italian, and so we just don't know. I mean, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.640 I don't know if he looks like any particular nationality, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.200 but there's no no way of knowing, and that's going 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.600 to make the search that much more difficulty. So you 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.320 don't know who it is. I don't know. I wish 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.360 I did, you know, and I was trying, you know, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.760 I tried to look up the artist, you know, see 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.640 what he you know who he was, and I just, uh, come, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.080 I didn't come up with anything. So there's just no 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:29.240 way of knowing. Moo took the news graciously, especially when 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.320 Eric's adjusted a way forward. If you expose it more, 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.960 somebody might recognize it. I mean that's that's the remote possibility. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.360 So what you're saying is there could be a sequel episode, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.959 right exactly, right. I mean, you can include in the 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.480 bottom of your emails, you can have a little photo 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.040 of him, and you know, as people if they know 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.280 who this person is. So it's just where we have 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.800 a lower third graphic. This is if you know who 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.400 this is, right to exactly Eric at anw dot com, 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.960 right exactly, and we'll solve it because millions of people 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.880 watching Antinks road shows, So you have a you have 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:08.239 a great chance. Maybe someone could pinpoint that exceptionally bushie mustache, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.600 or maybe they'd noticed the little clues the sculptor left behind. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.520 We see his first initials, and we see a date, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.000 and then we see his first three letters of his 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.120 last name, the name of the artists, would no doubt 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.040 be a step in the right direction. On the side 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.000 of the bust are the letters P and S, followed 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:30.079 by A B, B, and right underneath the letters is 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:40.920 a date, and then it disappears. The thing is about 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.560 that a little insert on Eric is that Eric happens 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.800 to be one of the best generalists we have. Again, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.000 my boss, Marsha Beemko, when he told you, Adam that 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.480 he couldn't figure it out, our hearts sank because it 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.040 was like, oh no, if he If Eric can't do it, 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:05.680 we might be in a tough spot here. Yeah. When 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.640 the episode aired in May of two thousand twenty one, 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.800 we put out a call for leads, and our viewers 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.560 were quick to share their theories. Perhaps it was Cecil 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.080 John Rhodes, founder of de Beers, the Diamond Company and 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.680 the Rhodes Scholarship, William Faulkner and Mark Twain, and even 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.480 John Ringling of Ringling Brothers Circus, all mustachioed, but none 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.720 checked out as our guy. So we were watching and 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.360 I like a challenge. Two people weren't giving up yet, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.959 and they weren't the random history buffs we thought might 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.000 write in for these viewers. Most not Grover Cleveland. Bust 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.959 was more personal. I worked on his podcast. I was 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.120 connected to him through a mutual friend. Megan Marcus, was 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:55.240 a producer from mose podcast Mobituaries. He once referred to 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.000 her as all of Agatha Christie's detectives in one when 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.880 you guys couldn't cure it out. I love to get 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.480 to the bottom of things, and a knack for sleuthing 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.440 runs in the family. So Megan's sister Zoe got on 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:14.520 the case as well. I mean the first thing that 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.960 we started working off of was the crowd sourcing that 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.280 existed right after. And there was a name that came 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.840 up on Twitter and Zoe went to town on this. Yeah, 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.200 I think I went off to town. I went to 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.240 town in the wrong direction. Here's Zoe. But I saw 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.880 someone had said, oh you know who is It's Benjamin 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.360 Barker O'Dell, who was a governor of New York. That's 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.640 Benjamin Barker O'Dell Jr. Governor of New York from nineteen 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.520 o one to nineteen o four, not to be confused 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.520 with his father, Benjamin Barker O'Dell Senior, who also held 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:50.040 public office. It's plausible both had portrait bus made, but 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.800 O'Dell senior died five years before most bus was made, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.319 so he's out. His son, on the other hand, lived 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.880 until ninety six, and he did have a mustache. And 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.240 I think they had a photo and I was like, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.280 you know what, it does look like that, which, by 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.319 the way, a lot of men with a mustache and 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.080 BET are like they're all going to kind of look 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.440 like that. So that was like that, that's got to 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.320 be him, to be fair, Benjamin Barker O'Dell Junior's mustache 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.040 looks to be about the same density as our bus. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.160 But Megan wasn't fully convinced. I looked at the photo. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.960 He looked too skinny, like this was a heftier. I 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.160 thought it was artistic license that maybe you know, they 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.960 were just you know, well, it's hard because like all 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.880 the mustache thing is deceptive, so I was doubting it, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.040 but I had nothing else to go off of and 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:42.680 then somebody tweets out with the sculptor's name. That name 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.680 came from viewer Mark McCarron. It might have been a 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.080 message that flashed up on the screen that said help 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.400 Morocca identify the sculpture, and I think it directed me 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.040 to a Twitter site. I don't remember exactly, but you know, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.960 I got out my device and I started frantically trying 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.320 to act. Mark McCarron is the executive director of the 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.880 Historical Society in Torrington, Connecticut, and he's likely the only 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.480 person watching that night, possibly the only person period for 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.760 whom P S A B B rang a bell. When 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.160 mo was visiting the appraiser, I think the appraiser said, well, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.960 there's obviously a professional sculpture, but you know, I can't 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.720 make out the signature and it's not somebody I'm familiar with. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.480 And at that point the cameras zoomed in on the 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:35.680 sculpture and I immediately recognized it as Paulo as Sabate 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.840 because he worked in Torrington for many, many decades, and 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.120 we have a pretty good collection of his work and 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:48.520 his he signed everything. Mark revealed just enough new information 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.080 from Megan to make some progress, because remember the thinking 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.960 at that point is that it's Benjamin Barker O'Dell. So 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.400 I'm trying to connect Odell with Abote, not finding any 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.040 connection at all. So then I just do this is 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.760 my usual trick. I go on newspapers dot com and 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.280 I just put in the sculptor's name and bust, and 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.200 I'd give a time here. We knew it was, so 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:13.920 I'm like, let me do a little bit before and 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.240 a little bit after. So the first hit that comes 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:23.120 up on newspapers dot Com is from March the Brooklyn 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.120 Daily Eagle, and there is a photo of this exact bust, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.320 and it says, a bust portrait of Police Commissioner Richard e. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.280 Enright has just been completed in bronze by Paolo Esabate. 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.560 The bust is of heroic size and will be presented 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.160 to the Commissioner sometime during the summer. Its final resting 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.480 place has not been decided upon. Mr Abat is well 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.840 known in congregational circles in Brooklyn, where he is in 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.520 charge of the Italian Church of the Redeemer, Clinton and 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.880 Carroll Streets. I mean, there's your proof, of course, Megan 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.680 and Zoe were communicating every development to MO. It really 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.920 was while to see that sculpture, which is in my 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.600 apartment and has been with me for so long, in 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.760 an archival photo um, because I come to believe that 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.239 he just sort of via spontaneous generation, kind of was 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.280 born in that shop on the North Fork of Long 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.400 Island where I bought him. I mean, I'd given up 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.600 even imagining him in other settings, but to see him 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.240 in this setting with the sculptor um was really exciting. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.119 It was it was kind of thrilling that made the 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.280 hairs in the back of my neck stand up. So 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.040 we got our full circle moment, the satisfying answer we 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.880 were all craving and a name to the face, Not 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.280 Grover Cleveland, but Richard E. N Right, a man I 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.920 had never heard of, but I did find someone who had. 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.719 So my name is Larry Sullivan, and I'm Professor Emeritus 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:03.280 and also Team Chief Flight Brian and Professor Criminal Justice 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.359 from the John J. College of Criminal Justice's The Lloyd 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.159 Seeley Library at John J College of Criminal Justice is 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.000 home to an archive of Richard E. Enwright materials and 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.360 it's only a few miles from most place. Now. Who 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.679 who was Richard E. En Right. All Right was the 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.600 first police commissioner that came to the racks. Five year 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.080 old and Right joined the NYPD in eight eventually becoming 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.040 the first officer to rise through the ranks from lieutenant 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.840 to police commissioner in nineteen eighteen and serving through nine 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.000 when he retired. If you look at the list of 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.159 the years of New York Police commission she was one 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.240 of the longest last. So with the with our bus 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.399 with Moroccos bust having the year one inscribed on it, 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.680 can you just paint the picture of what was going 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.120 on in New York City in the twenties. In New 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.080 York was three. Then he speakeasies all over the place 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.840 to crooked politicians, and he had to deal with us. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.639 And that's probably one of these, uh, you know, his legacies. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.360 I guess he was honest, which, as Larry pointed out, 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.440 was not a typical quality of Prohibition era police officers. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.520 I mean, most of them would take payoffs. Two years 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.399 into en Right's career as commissioner, the National Prohibition Act 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:29.400 took effect. En Right, who was known for not tolerating graft, 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.800 cracked down on organized crime that became rampant during this 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.480 period and later when the police came under criticism for 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.800 ineffectively enforcing the National Prohibition Act, and Right made the 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:46.399 controversial decision to bring charges against members of the force. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.480 But that wasn't all and Right is remembered for and 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.680 there may be two or three points that stand out. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:59.920 One is ninety two he hosted the International Conference from 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.359 Police Choot. This was the first time such a conference 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.720 had been held in the US, uh that the next year. 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:14.119 Digipol Interpol is the organization that coordinates between local police 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.760 departments in countries all over the world, and its founding 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:22.320 can be traced back to n. Right. And also he 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:27.440 was a very advocate of printing. Fingerprint identification for criminal 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.919 investigation had only just been introduced in Europe by the 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.320 time and Right joined the police force in the eighteen nineties, 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.320 but it didn't take long for the novel system to 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.920 spread internationally, and by oh three, New York State prisons 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:46.000 were using the technique for criminal record purposes, and Right 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.080 envisioned fingerprints resolving identity questions of all kinds, not just 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:55.680 within the context of crime. In nineteen n Right wrote 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:00.680 an article for Scientific American titled Everybody should be Fingerprinted? 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:07.280 Where he advocated for a universal system of fingerprinting. Early 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.199 into retirement, and Right dabbled in fiction writing, publishing his 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.320 first book, Vultures of the Dark, a detective story based 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.800 on his own experiences in the NYPD. And although his 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.679 career as a crime novelist didn't take off commercially, he 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.640 did receive high praise from a fellow law enforcement official 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.960 turned writer, William J. Flynn, who described and write as 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.919 a holy new writer whose prolific brain can evolve and 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:45.720 depict fresh, sparkling detective situations. While we were learning of 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.120 en rights foray into crime fiction, Megan and Moe were 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.800 doing some research of their own. Well, Megan Marcus ended 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.640 up sending me an article about his sentent becoming a 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.840 cop on Long Island. I think the first um since 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.040 Richard N. Right in that family to do so um. 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.120 So I thought that was pretty cool, and I thought, well, 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.720 we could keep this thing going if I introduced this 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.919 young cop to the to the bust um. And of 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:15.600 course I was pleased to find out that he was 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.679 a particularly celebrated esteemed chief of police during Prohibition, at 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.760 a time when, of course, as anyone who's seen the 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.320 untouchable as the movie or the TV show can tell you, 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.880 it was a time of a lot of crime. So 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:36.560 I'm happy to have him in my home. I'm glad 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.440 we are able to solve the mystery from at the 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.879 end of the day. Like I can't even believe this 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:45.399 is the most unsatisfying appraisal that we might have done. Listen, 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.360 sometimes stuff like this happens. He was such a good 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:52.040 sport about us failing to answer the question that day. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.000 We don't have all the answers we have of them, 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.239 but sometimes we don't. I love that this one was 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:05.520 such a group effort to get to the answer. No 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:35.840 yin It's store, we never in all. Watson Si de 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.480 Tours is a production of g b H in Boston 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:41.560 and pr X. This episode was written and produced by 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.920 Isabel Hibbert. Our editor is Galen Bebe. Our senior producer 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.960 and sound designer is Ian Coss. Jocelyn Gonzalez is the 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.520 director of pr X Productions. Devin Maverick Robbins is the 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.800 managing producer of podcast for g d H and Marsha 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.600 Benko is executive producer of Detours. I'm Your Host and 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:05.000 co executive producer Adam Monahan. Our theme music is Once 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.080 in a Century Storm by Will Daily from the album 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:24.800 National Throat. Thank you all for listening. Have a good one, 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:38.479 g B A. I hope you enjoyed listening to this 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:42.120 episode from season two of Detours from G B H 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:45.679 and pr Rex. We'll be back soon with new episodes 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:50.320 of Mobituaries, available on Amazon Music or wherever you get 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:51.320 your podcasts.