1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to this weekend's edition of S 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Y s K Selects. Uh. This is Chuck here. I 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: picked out Revisionist History. Uh, basically because it was just 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: a pretty darn good episode from my recollection. Um, but 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: of course you didn't go back and listen to it, 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: because why would I do that to myself? But I'd 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: love for you to welcome to stuff you should know 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: Bryant with his uh Nazi soda? What your orange Phantom? 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: That's not exactly true. No, okay, well let's talk about 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: this because it's a pretty good podcast. Their episode to 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: discuss this. If you asked me, oh yeah, revisionist history, 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. We're talking revisionist history, and for the 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: time being, we're talking about the origin of orange phanto 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: because there is a him were out there, Yeah that 17 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: orange Fanta is a Nazi soda, that it was created 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: by the Nazis. Yeah, that isn't quite true. Uh, like 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: there were Nazi products like Hugo Boss, that's Wwagen, Siemens, IBM, Mercedes. 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: I think this one to No Mercedes wasn't well Volkswagen, definitely. 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: The beatle was created to look like the SS helmet 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: from what I understand. Yeah, but Fanta Orange was created 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: by a coke employee in Nazi Germany, Coca Cola Germany UM, 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: which was supposedly well then that was the name of it, 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: and it was supposedly cut off from its parent company 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: during the war. Yeah, so they didn't have the supplies 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: they needed to make h coke. So this guy was 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: kind of mixed together a potion and created Fanta Orange. Um. 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: He went out back and dug up a bunch of 30 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: roots and squeezed the red headed kid. But it wasn't 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: like he wasn't a member of the Nazi party, and 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't created four Nazis, but it was enjoyed by Nazis. Okay. 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: So that's where I think you can reasonably call it 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: a Nazi drink. It was. It was born out of 35 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: the the Nazi regime in Germany as a result of 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: directly because Coca Cola drives because of the embargo on 37 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: the Nazi regime. Get Hitler love coke too, by the way, 38 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: did he? Yeah? Um, but I wouldn't put it in 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: the category of like Nazi products like Volkswagen and Hugo 40 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: Boston and so Coca Cola the way it has has 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: it spelled out, and I mean it depends like this 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: story is about as good as Coca Cola can come 43 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: off looking while still admitting that Fanta is a Coke 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: product that was created in Nazi Germany. But basically their 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: their spiel is that, you know, Coke was cut off. 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: Their spiegel was that UM Coke was cut off. Coke 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: Germany was cut off from the parent company because Coke 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: wasn't doing business, and then UM, as a result of 49 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: the war ending Coke was like, wow, this did really well, 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: come back into the folds, and we'll just keep selling 51 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Fanta and and way to go for you know, keeping 52 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: the company alive in the face of these Nazi war pigs. 53 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: UM that's apparently like the company line. I don't know, 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: it could be revisionist history. There are some American companies 55 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: that definitely did business illegally in Germany, most prominent among 56 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: them as IBM, who literally created not only the machines 57 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: but also the programs to tally the people in concentration camps. 58 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: That is not revisionist history. No, that's absolutely true. But 59 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: I just didn't I didn't even know when I brought 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: this drink in here that would be such a great 61 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: setup of the show. I just enjoyed men Orange. It 62 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: turned out pretty well. Yeah, so chucky. There's this really 63 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: great article that Conger wrote called how Revisionist History Works. 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: Email today tell her how good it was. I mean, 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: it is good, and she ignored me. It's the top 66 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: notch article. And she starts out with a pretty great 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: intro that I don't feel can be much improved on 68 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: because it demonstrates this whole thing pretty well. Conger talks 69 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: about George Washington, how as a little boy, Uh, he 70 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: was maybe a little aggressive, and he got ahold of 71 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: an axe and uh his father's ax, I believe, and 72 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: he gave a cherry tree forty wax. Then when he 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: saw what he had done, he gave it another forty 74 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: one and ended up chopping down the cherry tree. I 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 1: may have mixed legends here. Uh. And when his father 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: came out and saw that he had just chopped down 77 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: a cherry tree, a perfectly good money producing cherry tree, 78 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: because those things were like gold back then, he said Georgie, 79 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: what did you do? Did you cut this down? And 80 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: George Washington looked at the axe, looked at the tree, 81 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: looked at his father, looked at his feet, thought about 82 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: maybe a sandwich later, gonna be present one day? Shut up? Yeah, 83 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: And he said, I so I should probably be like 84 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: every other president and not tell a lie. Instead tell 85 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: the truth, because that's what our presidents do. And he said, father, 86 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: I cannot tell a lie. I did chop down this 87 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: cherry tree. What are you gonna do about it? I 88 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: never understood the point of that story. Was it that 89 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: he was honest, honest, forthright, upstanding, was willing to accept 90 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: the heat for what he'd done. He was accountable. There's 91 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff wrapped up in just that one 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: little fable good with an X, exactly handy. His dad 93 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: had cherry tree, so he, you know, came from a 94 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: wealthy background. But the problem is is all of it's 95 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: made up. And we've talked about this before. I don't 96 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: remember what what I think it was, maybe the how 97 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: much money is there in the world. We talked about 98 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: how Washington's biographer made up a bunch of stuff. Um 99 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: remember in throwing a silver dollar all the way across 100 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: the Potomac. And when I'm saying, like, the problem is 101 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: there weren't silver dollars back when Washington was younger, and 102 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: I've seen the Potomac, that's impossible. Yeah, right, exactly. But 103 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: the point in is Mason Weems, h Mason Lockweens, who 104 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: was Washington's early biographer, just made up a bunch of stuff. 105 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: And what is kind of a black eye or egg 106 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: on the face of historians for a century or so 107 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: that followed. They just kind of bought these things hooklient 108 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: and sinker and it actually, the cherry tree story was 109 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 1: in our textbooks, this total fable, completely made up fable, 110 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: was told the school children as the truth. I bet 111 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: it still is in some classrooms and maybe in the ozarks, 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: you know, but typically outside it has been revised because 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: they found out, i think a two thousand and eight that, um, 114 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: there were no cherry trees on Washington's family childhood home, 115 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: so cut him all down right exactly, But there was 116 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: not even evidence of cut down cherry trees. So they 117 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: had to go back and say, hey, we need to 118 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: take this out of the textbooks. They did, and nobody 119 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: really was bothered by it. It's pretty minor, it is. 120 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: It's it's not like saying Christopher Columbus discovered America and 121 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: proved the world wasn't round and didn't commit match genocide 122 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: and tortured and rape people, right that, Yeah, that he 123 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: and his men didn't sharpen their knives on the skulls 124 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: of live Indians they encounter. Yeah, it's amazing to me 125 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: that that's we still have Columbus Day. Did you you 126 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: know the deal? Now? No one mentioned it. Well, I 127 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: think people are starting to pull their heads from their butts. Yeah, 128 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: I feel like this year marked the the true beginning 129 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: of the end for Columbus Day. I do not think 130 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna be around much longer. Shouldn't be. It's just 131 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: two history is that man is too complicated, and he 132 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: did too many horrific things, even culturally relativistically. Yeah, he 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: did horrible things, and I feel like he's not going 134 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: to be honored too too far from now. Yeah, my 135 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: friend Jerry in Portland as a school teacher, and uh, 136 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: there's a thing going around Facebook about Columbus and I 137 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: shared it, of course, and Jerry said, you know, I've 138 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: the past three years, I've been able to teach this version. 139 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: So there's at least like a hundred and eighty kids 140 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: in Portland that are now like scarred for life with 141 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: the truth. And I was like, man, that's great. It's 142 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: about how sad is that you even have to say 143 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: this version instead of real history, right you know? Right? Well, 144 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean that's part of the problem. Is history as 145 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: they figured out and maybe the I think late nineteenth 146 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: ordly twentieth century, it's objective or subjective. It's not objective, 147 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: and people thought that it was and that it just 148 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: kind of history happened, you talked about it, and that 149 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: was that like you there were it was just history. 150 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't continuous and like when something happened, it happened, 151 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: and then once it was written down, that's how it was. 152 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: It was. It's a subjective, ever evolving thing. And we 153 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: figured it out, and we'll talk about when we figured 154 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: it out. But first, um, I mean we're what we're 155 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: talking about overall, this idea that history is meant to 156 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: be modified as new facts come to light, as attitudes change. Um. 157 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: It is called revisionism. And it's not necessarily a dirty word. Yeah, 158 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: we'll get into that. It definitely has a negative connotation 159 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: when you say, well, that's revisionist history exactly. Uh. And 160 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: that's one lens to to look at revisionist history through. Yeah, 161 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about the three um major parts of revisionist history. 162 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: I think, well, this is the three ways you can 163 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: look at revisionist history. Yeah. One is a theoretical perspective. 164 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: Basically we'll say, looking at it through the lens of 165 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: African Americans instead of old white men or women or 166 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: you know, any other like minority. That's one example. That's 167 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: like you know when people say like get on the 168 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: right side of history. Yeah, that's basically somebody being aware 169 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: that there is a cultural social lens of revisionism. Sure 170 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: that you know what's going on is going to change 171 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: the attitude towards something that's going to change, and you're 172 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: gonna look like a pretty horrible person when there's a 173 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: picture of you fifty years from now holding a sign 174 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: that's Columbus right right exactly. Uh. The other is one 175 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: of the others is fact checking. Um, that's basically just 176 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: to get it right lens. Yeah, like new facts come 177 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: to life, you change the history books. And finally, the 178 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: negative perspective um that uh sees revisionism as an effort 179 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: to falsify or skew things for you know, usually political motives. 180 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, let's talk about one of those. Congord gives 181 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: another good example of like all three of these wrapped 182 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: up in one guy. One Thomas Jefferson. Yeah. So factually, 183 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson was the third President of the United States. 184 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: He wrote the Constitution, wrote the Declaration of Independence, like 185 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: from word a disease. Yes, yes, you're right, might have 186 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: had some help. I don't know, I think other people 187 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: history exactly, but I mean, yes, he he was a 188 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: founding father. There's a lot of stuff that we know 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: for a fact Jefferson did right, But there's also other stuff. Um, 190 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: in particular that he had a slave with who who 191 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: was also his mistress. In her name was Sally Hemmings, 192 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: and he had children with her. And for many, many 193 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: years this was viewed by negative revisionists as just a 194 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: dirty rumor, yeah, which is incredibly insulting, it is to say, 195 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: because they were in love. Ye, well yeah, Nick Nolty, 196 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like, oh he just you know, 197 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: had his way with his slaves, like he was in 198 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: love with Sally Hemmings and it's very insulting to say 199 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: that that's a blight on America that our president with 200 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: stoop so low, is to be in love with a 201 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: black woman, you know. Exactly. So the people who looked 202 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: at this through the negative view of revisionism, that it 203 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: was meant to sully we're on the wrong side of 204 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: history agreed. So in the late nineteen nineties, I think 205 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:43,599 Speaker 1: maybe nine seven, I don't remember. Um, incontrovertible d n 206 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: E DNA evidence showed that Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson 207 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: had children together. They did it more than one, yes, 208 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: which does imply that they did it. They did it 209 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: a bunch um yeah, because the first time, I mean, 210 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: come on. Uh. So with that, we have these three 211 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: different lenses coming to play. You have the social theoretical lens, 212 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: which is okay, well, now we can go back and 213 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: look at history and say, um, maybe Jefferson wasn't the 214 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: only one to have a slave mistress, right, Maybe there 215 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: was a lot of this stuff going on, and maybe 216 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: black folks and white folks were co mingling more than 217 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: we thought, right exactly. Maybe at some point along that's 218 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: the way we um we meaning like the midnight mid 219 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: twenty century people of America put our own racist hang 220 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: ups on the people before and before during this era, 221 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: and we changed history unwittingly, it changed it back with 222 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: this fact that came to life. Then there was the 223 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: fact version yeah, which is like, maybe this is something 224 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: we should put in textbooks, right, you know, or more 225 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: to the point, now we can't not put this in 226 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: textbooks or the very least biographies, but textbooks do come on. Um. 227 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: And then there's a third one, the negative revisionism, which 228 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: kind of was um dispelled when this incontrovertible DNA evidence 229 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: came to light. Yeah, because up to that point you 230 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: could be like no, no, no, and then once the 231 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: DNA came out, it was like yes, yes, yes. Yeah. 232 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: So historians they have connor comparison to journalists, which is 233 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: I think pretty spot on. There's a responsibility there to 234 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: get it right and to not use your own skewed perspective, 235 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: Like you know, take the Civil War. If you still today, 236 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: if you go out in the sticks of Georgia and 237 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: ask someone about the Civil War, they're probably gonna have 238 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: some opinion. Yeah that may not be quite right. I 239 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: don't think. I don't know if people at North even 240 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: care about that stuff anymore. I think the South has 241 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: all the hang ups, sure, because we lost. They were 242 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: the ones, Yeah, the losers and the ones who wanted 243 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: to succeed. Yeah, up North, it's just like what happened. 244 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: But it's amazing that like this, many years later, there's 245 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: still that skewed political perspective because of your personal beliefs 246 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: in history, maybe family history, you know. Uh So let's 247 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: talk about modern revisionism, which pretty much started after World 248 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: War One, when the onus was put on historians to 249 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: suss it out and say, like, all right, world War 250 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: One happened, So that happened. Uh, we now have an 251 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: obligation to record this and teach the world about it. 252 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of different opinions about it, right, 253 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: which makes it tough. And the term revisionist history was 254 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: actually coined a couple of decades before World War One 255 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: by Marxists who were grappling with um whether or not 256 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: the revolution was inevitable and how to put that down 257 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: in the history books, and revisionism was coined around this 258 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: this time by those people, but it really didn't come 259 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: into play worldwide until after World War One, and at 260 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: this time scholars started to realize that this is when 261 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: people figured out history is objective, Like seriously, up to 262 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: this point subjective you mean, yes, thank you. I don't 263 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: know why I can't get this straight today. But up 264 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: to this point, historians, mainstream historians overall typically believed that, like, 265 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: history was objective. Yeah. And now something like World War 266 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: One happened with all the world involved, everyone at a 267 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: stake in it. Because what is history besides um, looking 268 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: good you know, no one wants to look bad in 269 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: the history books or making someone look bad on purpose. Um, 270 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: and historians started to realize, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Like 271 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: it's kind of up to us what goes in the 272 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: history books. And this is such a complicated, complex event 273 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: that maybe history isn't objective. Yeah. In thee A, the 274 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: speech was given at the American Historical Association by President 275 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: Carl Becca, and he was kind of the first guy 276 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: to really come out in public and say, you know what, 277 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: it's a living, evolving thing. It is very much subjective, 278 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: and it's uh subjective because it's humans memory basically the 279 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: story definitely fallible or their perspective as individuals. Uh. And 280 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: like I said, politics is usually one of the big 281 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: reasons how it gets skewed, but not just politics nationalism. 282 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: Everybody wants their country to be the winner or look 283 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: like the good guy or what have you. Um. But yeah, 284 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: Becker was the first to say it's subjective and therefore 285 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: it's subject to revision. And World War One was the 286 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: thing that kicked it off. Like we said, the Treaty 287 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: of Versailles really really strongly punished Germany, redrew its boundaries 288 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: and basically said, Germany, you're responsible for World War One. 289 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,239 Speaker 1: You guys were the aggressor, and everybody else was reacting. 290 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: And then as time wore on, um new documents were 291 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: at least that showed that, no, it wasn't just Germany. 292 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of other factors involved, including among 293 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: the Allies that contributed directly to the beginning of World 294 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: War One, and Germany was kind of punished unfairly, so 295 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: in the League of Nations basically said hey, we need 296 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: some sort of guidelines for writing historical textbooks, and they 297 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: came up with that, and from that point on revisionism 298 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: was born. And then y one, Carl Becker said, yeah, 299 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: here in America, we agree history is subjective and it 300 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: can be revised. Yeah, and declassification of documents is a 301 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: big way that things can be revised, because you know, 302 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: if you don't have it's not just someone's opinion. If 303 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: if you don't have actual documentation and like peer reviewed stuff, 304 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: then you can't revise history, you know what I'm saying. Uh. 305 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: So that brings us to World War Two, when what 306 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: is called the age of historical consensus officially began. Um, 307 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: and I get the idea that that was just when 308 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: people sort of historians a banded together a little bit 309 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: more than ever before. Yeah, get that feeling. They Yeah, 310 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: there was a lot of patriotism, nationalism, and basically everybody said, 311 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: if there's anything that happened in World War Two, is 312 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: that the US emerged victorious and saved the world. Jingoism perhaps, Yeah, 313 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: very much. So this is among historians. And you know, 314 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: if all historians basically are on the same page that 315 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: America is awesome and kicks ass, then that's what the 316 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: history books are going to reflect. Yeah, and that held 317 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: pretty strong until the nineteen sixties, which, as anyone who 318 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: knows anything about American history knows, it was a pretty 319 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: tumultuous time. Uh. Quite a few things to Vietnam War, 320 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: civil rights movement, feminist movement, globalization, the Cold War, they 321 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: all combine to basically quell that nationalism a little bit. Maybe, yeah, 322 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean all of the the u s 323 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: went from this sunny, happy, suburban, white picket fence Nazi 324 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: butt kicking country to one that was coming apart at 325 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: the seems internally. And the historians of the time of 326 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: the sixties said, like, wait a minute, if history is 327 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: this ever evolving, UM dialogue, that's table will be revised, 328 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: how are we going to document this? And what they 329 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: figured out, very wisely, was well, we need to tell 330 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: everybody's story four lenses. Yeah, well, at least I think 331 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: six maybe emerged from the sixties that basically history became 332 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: more inclusive. It wasn't just about the leaders anymore. It 333 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: wasn't just about how great America was. It was the 334 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: whole picture. That's what historians strove to to get to 335 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: write the four major lenses from the sixties on or political, economic, racial, 336 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: and sexual. That's four, it's not six. You should make 337 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: two more up. We could probably come up with a 338 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: couple that aren't like fully covered here. On political lends, 339 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 1: though UM obviously has to do with foreign policy. Nationalism. Um, 340 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties, I believe you already mentioned the 341 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: Marxist revisionism outlined more of a struggle between the classes, 342 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: and maybe he took an approach that wasn't like, gave 343 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: the lower classes a little bit more there do, Right, 344 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like, um, just because somebody was a 345 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: prominent leader doesn't mean they were a great person necessarily. Uh. 346 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: And yeah, that was a huge radical change, especially compared 347 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: to that age of consensus among historians. The economic lens 348 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: Charles A. Bird, a historian, had a pretty radical idea that, hey, 349 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: the Founding fathers were writing the Constitution this sort of 350 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: look out for wealthy white dudes. And I think he's 351 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: probably right. Yeah, there was a he wrote that in 352 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: I think nineteen thirteen, and it took until the TUMULTI 353 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: of the sixties before anybody ever really like kind of 354 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: championed itmult. I think that's right. Really, if I am 355 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: a descriptivist at the at the moment, not just tumult Yeah, 356 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: but doesn't TUMULTI run roll off the tongue a little more, well, 357 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: tumulty would be the adjective like that was a very 358 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: TUMULTI no, that'd be tumultuous. I know, that's one point. 359 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: So anyway, Beard's idea was that the framers of the 360 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: Constitution said, hey, let's protect ourselves, and the landowners who 361 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: owed money to the framers basically led a revolution in 362 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred that was led by the election of Thomas Jefferson. 363 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: And that's where we are we live in today. But 364 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: we may have had much more of an elite society, 365 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: or basically we have an elite society now, we just 366 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: would have had had one for longer. So the racial lends, obviously, 367 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: uh strove to cast a light on minorities a little 368 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: more that were largely ignored thanks to the civil rights 369 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: movement um against some momentum. I remember being in school 370 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: and not learning about Malcolm X or Hue P. Newton. Who. Yeah, 371 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't taught those things classes in high school. I 372 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: had to read about them on my own afterwards. College 373 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 1: does a much much better job, for sure, But even 374 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, and this was, I mean, this is a 375 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: while ago for me. This was in the eighties. Do 376 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: you remember, but like you think, it's gotten a little better. 377 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: Do you remember when you learned hopefully at least in 378 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: high school. Um about the Native Americans supplied of Native 379 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: Americans in the US. I don't remember, man. I remember 380 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: ninth grade finally taking a history class where they like 381 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: spoke frankly about it, like you're like your friend in Portland, 382 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: and I don't remember my mind just being blown because 383 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: I was like, well, wait a minute, what about everything 384 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: I learned the last eight years, Like all that's just 385 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: total bs, like completely is contradicted by what you're saying. 386 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: Not only was this stuff like left out, I learned 387 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: the opposite, you know that they basically just went away 388 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: on their own because the white man came and they 389 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: were like, oh, this place is yours. And I remember 390 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: were being in ninth grade just learning this like wow, 391 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: that was a big eye opener for me. I think 392 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: that's probably why I got into history, because I was like, 393 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: this is pretty interesting stuff, Like there's more out there, 394 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: sure I want to know, like, yeah, the whole the 395 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: whole thing under the Rachel lens. Also, now you could 396 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: learn about dudes like the Tuskegee Airmen or Japanese in 397 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: tournament camps, which I never heard of until we did 398 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: that episode on me. Until three years ago. But um 399 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: that raises another good point, Chuck Uh. With the Japanese 400 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: in tournament camps. It wasn't in the history books before, 401 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: and then it comes out maybe in the nineties. I think, 402 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: um or it's put into the history books in the nineties, 403 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: and that kind of reflects why people struggle against revisionism, 404 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: or some people do, because history is ultimately zero sum, 405 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: right if you put that in the history book, the 406 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: Japanese plight, American Japanese Americans who were putting new in 407 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: terms at camps, their plight is honored just through recognition, 408 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: like this happened to you people, and now everybody knows 409 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: about it. But at the same time, the US government 410 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: looks bad. Yeah, and reparations are like all of a 411 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: sudden on the table and they don't want that. So 412 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: it's impossible to shine a light on something and it 413 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: not have Almost always, I can't think of one instance 414 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: a also a negative impact on something else, because what 415 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: is history again, if it's not somebody's screwing somebody else over? 416 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: Is that all it is? I mean, at least world history, 417 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: political history. Uh. And the final lens, of course, is 418 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: the sexual lens, which shone a light on women and said, hey, 419 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: history is not just about old white men. Yeah, there 420 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: were a lot of ladies like Elizabeth Katie Stanton and 421 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: so journal truth. And I think the only, like, the 422 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: only black woman I ever remember reading about, of course, 423 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: was Harriet Tubman. It's like one person, are you really 424 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: that's the only that's the only African American female in 425 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: history that made any difference was Harriet Tubman, Right, And 426 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: think about it, Like the most recent one that's mentioned 427 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: here is Elizabeth Katie Stanton. So apparently we ran out 428 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: of producing great women in the early twentieth century. Where 429 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: is the rest of them? So apparently we're still struggling 430 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: with that sexual lens of revisionist history. I think I 431 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: think women are definitely still fighting that fight. Included a 432 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: cool thing the other day on I think it went 433 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: sort of viral where this woman had her daughter, Um, 434 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, like little girls play dress up and stuff 435 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: little boys to too. But um, instead of dressing the 436 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: daughter up like you know, I'm a Disney princess, um, 437 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: she dressed her up like famous women in history and 438 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: took pictures and just had a blast. And uh, it's 439 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: really neats, like a little photo series of this girl 440 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: dressed up as all these like great women in history, 441 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: and uh, it's very cool, very cool thing to do. 442 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: I feel like I saw that. Yeah, it was just 443 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. So you probably did good 444 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: for her, is what I say. Yeah, good for her. Um, 445 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: I guess now maybe it's a good time to do 446 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: a message break. Yeah, and after we're going to get 447 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: into correcting the facts, which is my favorite part, so Chuckers, Yeah, um, 448 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: we're talking about revisionism as a means of correcting the facts. Yeah, 449 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: like the game of telephone, the old adage, and that's 450 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: basically what history was. You start with a story and 451 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: it gets passed down orally or maybe even it was 452 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: written down, and it's just like a game of telephone, 453 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: things get mixed up and in the end you end 454 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: up with what is probably not the way it really happened, right, 455 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: Purple Monkey Dishwasher like like Pocahonas is her example about 456 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: she had this. It was a great love story between 457 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: Captain John Smith and Pocahonas and Jamestown and Disney made 458 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: a movie about it. It It seems like I'm picking up 459 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: Disney a lot, and it's well, it's the same thing 460 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: like that. Disney took this, this idea and ran with 461 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: it and created like a new well not a new character, 462 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: but he created a character who fell in love with 463 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: John Smith and they had a wacky courtship and overcame 464 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: all the odds and Jamestown was saying, I think he 465 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: falls down at some point maybe and there's maybe a 466 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: talking animal. Yeah. There was one problem with this though, 467 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: is Pocahonas was eleven years old and James Smith was 468 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: not a um perst. Well, pederste is exclusively with boys, 469 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: is it. I don't think I knew that. Yeah, so 470 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: I guess you'd be a pedophile. Yeah, let's let's just 471 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: generally say a pedophile. Uh yeah. And even though things, 472 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: you know, people courted younger back then, eleven was not 473 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: his game. So it's not true. Pocahona Is actually um 474 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: married a widower named John Rolfe. She died when she's 475 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: about twenty one. She did help, she did introduce the 476 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: the colonists to her tribe. The thing is and and 477 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: like do she did play a role in saving Jamestown. Um, 478 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, she didn't fall in love with Captain John Smith. No. 479 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: And thanks to modern times, we have things like anthropology 480 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: and forensic science and archaeology, and uh, people coming out 481 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: like the deep throat Mark felt finally revealing I was 482 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: deep throat. I don't think he revealed himself though, did he? No, 483 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: he was uncovered. I believe documents becoming declassified, like as 484 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: time marches on and we get a little bit more modern, 485 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: we we get the facts more correct again with declassified information. Um, 486 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: you know something is a secret, it can't be part 487 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: of history. But then once it's declassified, these things definitely 488 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: have an effect on history and impact on history. CIA 489 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: did give LSD too, unwaiting Americans. Um, the Star Wars 490 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: program did very much help usher in the end of 491 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: the Cold War. All these come from declassified documents that 492 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: show yeah, this, this actually happened this way go back 493 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: and they really had an alien autop season area, right, 494 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: that's all on TV. Did you hear them Molder and 495 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: Scully or down for making another movie? They don't know 496 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: if it will happen, but I mean, if they're both game, 497 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: why not, especially her? And we're about do for the 498 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: nineties to come back in vogue. So you just look 499 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: a good bit things not working or does it have 500 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: a clock on there. No, it just shows I don't 501 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: have four thousand steps yet today, but you just happed it, 502 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: so it thinks you're walking. I'm just shaking my much 503 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: tv uh, because there's nothing like cheating yourself out of it, 504 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: just out of health. UM. So, like we said, updating 505 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: biographies and more importantly, uh for me, textbooks is a 506 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: big part of this. UM. But it's not so easy. 507 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: It's not like, hey, let's just throw in a new 508 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: chapter on Jefferson. Um. You have to actually go through 509 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: quite a process. Scholars and researchers. Uh. You know, the 510 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: first they developed these theories and thesis, they published them, 511 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: they're reviewed by academics and teachers. Uh, textbook authors meet 512 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: at conferences and see the new recommendations. It's kind of 513 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: a long involved process too to make a substantial change 514 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: in a textbook. Uh. And there's an actual Institute for 515 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: International Textbook Research that analyzes all this stuff and make 516 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: sure that textbooks are diversified. And uh, don't just tell 517 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: the history of you know, wealthy white dudes, right exactly. 518 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: This is ideal, This is the ideal process. Yeah. There's 519 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: another really big factor in this that we've talked about before, 520 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: where the biggest states are the states with the most 521 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: students and therefore by the most textbooks are the ones 522 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: who ultimately get to write the textbooks, which is why 523 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: Texas has such an outsize influence on what the rest 524 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: of the country learns, because they write the textbooks and 525 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: the publishers aren't going to make different textbooks for each state. 526 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: You're gonna make them for the biggest state and then 527 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: go sell them to the rest of the state. So 528 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: there are flaws in this process. And including that, there's 529 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: also you know, it's it doesn't keep up in real 530 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: time very well. Now you can't just economically, you can't 531 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: publish a new textbook every year. I think they try 532 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: to have about a tenure life on a textbook, but 533 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: I can't they just email history teachers and be like, hey, 534 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: on page forty two, it says that Jefferson did not 535 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: have kids with Sally Hemmings. Don't teach that part. Teach 536 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: the opposite. Yeah, And I wonder. I'm sure it varies 537 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: from county to county. I wonder how much freedom teachers 538 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: have to develop their own curriculum and other standards. But 539 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: I wonder how they can do their own I wonder 540 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: the impression there isn't teaching any longer, like oh, this 541 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: is a moot point when we're talking about textbooks. That's 542 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: not true. Uh sorry, sorry, teachers, I just realized something 543 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: of you. Have you listen to this, No, and you 544 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: weren't saying that in spiteful way. You're saying that like 545 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: it's sad that. Yes, exactly, teaching is, you know, stuff 546 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: to get teachers these days, thank you, just like a 547 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: public service, you know what teaching these days? Yeah? Yeah, 548 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: and I think it always has been you think, Yeah, 549 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: I think that the constraints put on teachers has really 550 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: tied their hands to the point where they aren't able 551 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: to teach like they should or like they want to. Yeah, 552 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: but I think it remains a public service. I just 553 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: think our education systems that need is some real reform. 554 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: Well it is. And it's sad that I think a 555 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: lot of teachers these days to treat it like a 556 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: public service. And and it's not bad, but I'm saying 557 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: sometimes teachers these days will be like, yeah, I'm gonna 558 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: go teach for four or five years because people are 559 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: in need of teachers. Not necessarily I want to be 560 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: a teacher for my entire career, and what they're finding 561 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: out is this generation is going to be short on 562 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: teachers because people are teaching for a shorter amount of time, 563 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: you know what. I'm interested in this, and we to 564 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: do an episode on that. But in the meantime, we're 565 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: gonna do a pre listener mail call out and ask 566 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: for any teachers out there who are in there on 567 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: the front lines, email us and tell us what can 568 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: be done to solve the problems with the public school system, 569 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: whether it's easy, complex, whatever. I'm very curious and totally 570 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 1: down to help anyway we can, you know, Um, alright, 571 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: so where were we textbooks? Sometimes you will publish um. 572 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll publish supplemental material that's like not every ten years, 573 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: just to get things right. Um. Yeah, because ten years 574 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: is a long time to go between discovering acceptance of 575 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: a new historical fact and teaching it to to kids. 576 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: That's too long. But people got up in arms. The 577 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: American Historical Association UM submitted as it's or updated it's 578 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: national history standards in textbooks, and they got negative feedback 579 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: because they were like, well, where's Daniel Boone and who's 580 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: this Harriet Tubman, why's she getting so much attention a 581 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: black woman, unbelievable. Yeah. So even when they get it right, 582 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: they still get go It's a it's a really good point. 583 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: It's a good segue to the negativism. Um, even when 584 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: it's true, it's still going to encounter resistance. Part of 585 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: it is that people hang on to their national pride, 586 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: their national story, stuff they learned as a kid. People 587 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: are fearful of new things change. Um, but what does 588 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: that mean about me? You know exactly? Like I dressed 589 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: like Daniel Boone and go out in public. So what 590 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: what happens if everybody doesn't know who Daniel Boone is 591 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: and I just look like a weirdo. Um. But another 592 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: part of it is because of the bad name that 593 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: revisionism has has been given by hacks and crackpots over 594 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: the years. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I remember in two 595 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: thousand three, President Bush used the turn revisionist history historians 596 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: talking about the media their coverage of the war in Iraq, 597 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: basically saying that, you know, some reporters are questioning the 598 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: reasons that we invaded Iraq and had sway over the 599 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: public's opinion about this, and a lot of historians for 600 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: the media to have, and a lot of historians weren't 601 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: too keen on that. You're like, hey, you shouldn't really 602 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: say that, because that's kind of knocking studying history, the 603 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: academic field of history, or the fact that history is 604 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: able to be revised. He was, he was making it 605 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: a negative thing. Same with um Florida. Apparently in two 606 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: thousand and six they outlawed the teaching of any postmodernist 607 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: or revisionist history and kids were only allowed to learn 608 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: the facts, which is number one impossible yea, and number 609 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: two um it says implicitly that revisionist history is not facts. 610 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: And what's the opposite of facts? Will lies? Man, that's 611 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: sad it is because it's basically saying we were used 612 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: to progress. Yeah, I will not progress, not only in 613 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: bad stuff, but in good stuff too. Yeah. No, we 614 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: are quite happy with that whole post war agent consensus thing. 615 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna stay right there. So the rest of the country, 616 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: rest of the world, you go progress without us. Well, 617 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: that's that's crazy. You just can't do that. You can't 618 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: dig in your heels in in thwart history. It just 619 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: won't happen. Yeah, you look like you're on the wrong 620 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: side of history. That's gonna be one of our new 621 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: t shirts with you like pointing. Uh. One reason though, 622 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: revisionist history has negative connotations because people wrongly tie it 623 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: to things like Holocaust deniers. That is not revisionist history. 624 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: That is called negationism, and it's not the same thing. 625 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: So if you know someone who says the Holocaust didn't happen, 626 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: they're not revising history. There crackpots. Yeah, and probably a 627 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: troll too, yeah. Um yeah, So you can just kind 628 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: of remove the whole Holocaust and now from revisionist history. 629 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: The poem is in the public image. Those two things 630 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: go very much hand in hand, same with conspiracy theories. 631 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: But Conger kind of gives this little thumbnail handy dandy 632 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: guide to separating the wheat from the chaff as far 633 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: as revisionist history goes. So if you're encountering something like 634 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: a moon landing conspiracy or Kennedy assassination and conspiracy, you 635 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: have to ask yourself. Number one, is this a professional 636 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: historian or an amateur historian on the blog? Yeah, that's 637 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: a good one. Is this historian um out for the 638 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: truth or fame and money? So is it just sensationalized um? 639 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,919 Speaker 1: And we ran into something like we almost did the 640 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: article about did the Chinese beat Columbus. That's a good 641 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: example of somebody who is a historian. I don't I 642 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: think his name is Gavin Menzies. There's just a theory. Yeah, 643 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: and there's like all this really tiny crumbs of circumstance 644 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: util evidence here there that um, the Chinese did beat 645 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 1: Columbus to the New World. The problem is, at this 646 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: moment it is just a crackpot theory. He has almost 647 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: nothing to back it up, as he looking just to 648 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: sell books. He sold a bunch of books. Well, that's 649 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: a pretty red pretty big red flag it is. It 650 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: is interesting, and you can't say that somewhere down the 651 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: road that we won't find that the Chinese did visit 652 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: the New World before Columbus. But as it stands like 653 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: that is so far outside of the mainstream. It's just 654 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: a crack pot idea. At this point, you know that 655 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: some guy wove into a pretty interesting book. Yeah. And 656 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: she also points out, which is totally true, that we 657 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: tend to be more skeptical of revisionist history. That's we 658 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: have a feel like we have a stake in right 659 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: or are very familiar with like, maybe I'm resistant to 660 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: that because I was raised the idea that Columbus discovered 661 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: the New World, Whereas if I it was from Ghana, 662 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, maybe the Chinese did do it. 663 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 1: Who cares exactly? You know, I couldn't said it better. 664 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: Uh So, Basically, a very small number of revisionist histories 665 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: are factual or not factual but accepted as fact in 666 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: the end. It's just tough to pull off, like Kevin 667 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: Menzies is another good example of that. But here's the thing, 668 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: revisionist history, it has a um, unearned bad name, right 669 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: it's an actual worried Well, we're not We're not saying 670 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: this is a fringe idea that's been brought into the mainstream. 671 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: This is a mainstream, um part of the study of history, right, Um, 672 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: that some fringe dwellers have adopted like here or there. 673 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: But for the most part, like like, revisionist history is 674 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: a real part of the discipline of history, and it's 675 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: a good part of it in my opinion, because, like 676 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: Congred points out, it levels the playing field. It's inclusive. 677 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: Like when revisionist history became a thing, history became more 678 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: inclusive of and it started to tell everybody's story. Yeah. 679 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear from historians. They're gonna be like, 680 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: oh dude, thank you yeah, or boy, did you guys 681 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: screw this up? Microvisionist history is nothing but crack pots, 682 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: Like where did you get the idea of what? No? 683 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: Um so you got anymore? I got nothing else? Thank 684 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: you for let me stay all pepped up about this one. 685 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: You know, how was a history major and like this 686 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: is like great stuff. I know. I usually just throw 687 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,959 Speaker 1: the wet blanket on you. Uh that is not true. Uh, 688 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: since we said wet blank get or chuck did that 689 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: triggers me to say, if you want to learn more 690 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: about revisionist history, go to the website, type that in 691 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: the handy search bar. And then, since I said handy 692 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: search bar, we've got kind of a Rube Goldberg thing 693 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: going here that triggers uh listener mail. That's right. I'm 694 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: gonna call this, uh handwriting analysis from a handwriting analysts. 695 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: And this is my favorite thing is when I hear 696 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: from the actual people and they either say, hey, you 697 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: did a good job or you didn't do such a 698 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: good job. I don't mind this. I was surprised to 699 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: hear we did so good about the Maori. That was great. Yeah. Boy, 700 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: those Kiwi's love a little light shine in their way. 701 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: I love it. Hey, guys, just finished episode on handwriting 702 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: analysis as I arrived to work as a handwriting analysts, 703 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: or as we call ourselves, forensic document examiners. When I 704 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: got into my car at home and saw the title 705 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: of the episode, I had already begun a mental checklist 706 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: about the misconceptions you might pass on about the field. 707 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: Um oh, that's negative. I have to deal with them 708 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: all the time. However, I'm delighted to say you guys 709 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: absolutely nailed it. Exclamation point. I don't have a single 710 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: criticism or correction in this case. Each lab has its 711 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: own specialty, but at the Homeland Security Investigations Forensic Laboratory 712 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: where I work, we specialize in travel and identity documents. 713 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 1: Most of my work is determining if certain passport screen cards, 714 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: driver's licenses, and visas our counterfeit or altered. What I'm 715 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: trained to do handwriting examinations as well. I spent months 716 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: of my training and handwriting and it is not for everyone. 717 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: Let me say it is a difficult task. It takes 718 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: a lot of natural ability to accomplish. The first thing 719 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: we did in training was to take a form blindness 720 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: test to make sure we had that natural ability before 721 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: I started the job I have now though. I actually 722 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: worked for the Secret Service on the Phish database that 723 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: you mentioned. Uh. Fish is a lot like a f 724 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: I S for handwriting. The Secret Service processed a lot 725 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: of anonymous threat letters and I would put them into 726 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: the database to see if I could come up with 727 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: any matches. You could probably imagine how fun it was 728 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: to find a hit. Uh. There were a few times 729 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: this happened for me during the year I worked there, 730 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: and Uh, it always amazed me how well the system worked. Right. 731 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: And that is from Jordan's the handwriting animals. That's pretty awesome. 732 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: I like hearing from the actual people too. It's great, 733 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,919 Speaker 1: Thanks Jordan, Yeah, thanks a lot. Jordan's. Um, Well, let's see, 734 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: we already asked for it, but I think compars asking 735 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: for again. If you are a teacher and you have 736 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: some ideas about how to fix the cracks and flaws 737 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: of the public education system or education system in general, 738 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: we want to hear about it. You can tweet to 739 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: us at s Y s K podcast. You can join 740 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know. 741 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcasts at 742 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com, and you can join us at our 743 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: home on the web stuff you Should Know dot com. 744 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 745 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com.