WEBVTT - Jonah Oliver 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.280 It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.600 you every Wednesday. This week's guest had a chance to 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:13.840 sit down and talk to this guy when I was 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.479 down in Australia. Jonah Oliver. He is Cam Smith's performance coach. 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:21.200 But met him just in the locker room and got 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.680 talking to him about, you know, his role with Cam 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.480 and everything. But from the minute I started talking to Jonah, 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.520 I mean, it's just he was definitely somebody I wanted 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.800 to have on the podcast. Been doing this for a 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.040 little of her about a year year and a half now, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.760 and I've got to say this was probably the podcast 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.920 that I got the most out of. I could have 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.400 talked to Jonah for a couple of hours. He talks 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.519 about dealing with pressure or talks about performance, but just 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.519 so many good takeaways that if you're a competitive golfer 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.199 or a non competitive golfer, if you're just trying to 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.480 improve your handicap. Definitely some stuff that I think that 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.040 everybody that's trying to improve their game and trying to 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.520 improve the way they perform on the golf course, this 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.759 is a good one. You're gonna want to take notes, 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.440 and like I said, definitely one that I enjoyed listening 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.720 to and one that I got a lot out of. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.840 So take a listen to Jonah Oliver. I definitely think 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:23.480 you will enjoy it. All right. So, Jonah, we got 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.880 a chance to meet last last week in Australia, and 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.600 you know, just in talking to you and the work 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.680 that you've done with Cam Smith is his performance coach. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.800 I just thought it would be fascinating to kind of 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.200 pick your brain. First of all, when when when everybody 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.400 listening here is a performance coach to you? What does 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.600 that mean? And how would you define that? 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.360 Yeah, great question. I'm a sports psychologist, so I define 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.000 it firstly, so psychologist by training. And I say that 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.400 just a clarification. There's a lot of people out there 0:01:55.400 --> 0:02:00.160 who are mental skills coaches, performance coaches, mindset coaches. I'm 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.800 a psychologist. I went to university to a bunch of training, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.280 registered with a medical board, so you know, everything that 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.200 I do is based in evidence. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.120 What would that be the difference between, you know, because 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.480 obviously there are the golf has been you know, the 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.240 main one in golf historically was a guy like Barbarrotella, 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.919 you know, where breathing techniques and stuff like that, whereas 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:25.239 your background is more a doctor background, a clinical background, 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.240 And that's different than just someone saying, hey, work on 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.240 your pre sharp routine, work on you know, focus, because 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.360 it's much more involved in what you do with the 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:36.480 training that you've got. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.280 Yeah. Sure, I mean, firstly, there's a whole bunch of 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.160 people out there doing great work regardless of their background. 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.000 You know, some people just have a natural intuition. What 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.799 separates maybe a sports psychologist from others is that we're 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:56.839 medically ethically bound by only evidence based interventions. So it's 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.040 like going seeing a doctor. They're not going to say 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:00.920 I think this is a good medicine I made up 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.120 in my garage. This is based upon you know, science 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.040 and evidence. So that's probably the biggest distinguishing factor is 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.480 that whatever I do, I've come from a body of science. 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:13.840 To your first question, though, what do I do for 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.960 a living? I help people focus on the right thing 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.639 at the right time. I can't make you more talented. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.680 I can't make you any more than what's you know, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.240 what God put in. But you know, most of the 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.200 time clients come to me and they're like, Jonah, I 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:29.799 can I can hit a ball, I can drive a 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.359 racing car I can you know, I can train well 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.920 when I'm in the in the octagon, sparring, whatever the 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.960 sport is, but then they want to do it when 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.320 it matters, and they might notice there's a change in 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.560 their performance when pressure shows up or outcome shows up. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.400 So you know what do I do. I help people 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.000 focus on the right thing at the right time. 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.560 And one of the things that I'm always talking to 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.320 all of the players I work with, especially the ones 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.760 trying to play, is this concept of technique versus execution, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.360 and I think regard and one of the reasons why 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.080 I wanted you to come on and talk. And I 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.040 find it fascinated talk to people years your golf round 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.920 isn't specifically golf, And we were talking before we started that, 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.800 I think in the last fifteen years. And I think 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.400 really when the guys at the Titleist Performance Institut Greg 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.240 and Dave Rose, Greg Rose and Dave Philips, when they 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.120 got together and said, Okay, we're going to bring in 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.279 all of these people to try and talk about golf. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.239 We're going to bring in people from the medical side, 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.640 from the physical side, and then from the golf side 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.440 and get all of these people kind of talking and 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.880 being on the same page. I think really since the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.240 early two thousands, I've spent more time talking to people 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.840 that aren't necessarily golf specific people or their background isn't 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.560 one hundred percent golf, And so you mentioned other sports. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.080 One of the things I think that's changed and I'd 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.920 love to get your input on this. Golf has changed 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.120 and evolved to where I think it's getting out of 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.159 the golf specific realm because when I was growing up, 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:54.880 my dad was always a golf and you know, a 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.280 coach gave lessons, but golf wasn't cool. It wasn't seen 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.040 as a sport. It was just go out, Ben Hogan, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.920 find it in the dirt. You know, there's great stories 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.040 about people that just think all of this is just nonsense. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.520 You know. I know some of the trainers at the 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.040 Ryder Cup at Glenn Eagles when Tom Watson was the captain, 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.400 their players were trying to get credentials for their coaches, 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.680 for their trainers and stuff. And Tom Watson, coming from 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.560 an old school, you don't need any of that, right, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.159 you don't need any of that stuff. It's just golf 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:26.680 and we dig it out of the dirt. How do 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.640 you see golf has evolved over the last maybe fifteen 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.560 to twenty years. And where do you see that in 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.400 the realm of other sports that you deal with, from 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.919 racing drivers, from other you know, cricketers, from Ossie rules, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.080 and then the work that you do with Cam Smith. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:49.200 Yeah, sure, great question. Well, interestingly enough, I think golf 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:55.200 is relatively mature with examining the side of psychology because 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.120 I think even before we had psychologists working with all 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.640 tour players like I do, the average the average golfer 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.520 out there certainly knew that their head at times got 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.360 in their way. Okay, so I think there was quite 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.760 a you know, I look at tennis, I look at 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.320 for you know, motorsport, I look at golf. They're relatively 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.039 mature in having people like myself around the athletes and 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:22.400 the teams. But to your point, coming in as just 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.080 a generalist, I work across all professional sports multiple I've 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.120 gone multiple Olympics and worked in all different sectors of 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:34.200 pro sport, is that golf does still have a tendency 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.640 to drink from a pretty small fish tank, and sometimes 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.920 that that water can get a bit dirty. Right, So 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.320 what do people let myself bring in we bring in 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.599 the naive question, the informed yet naive question. What I 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.320 mean by that is why are you doing that? 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:51.160 But why? 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.839 What? Like give me or because you did it before, 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.200 because somebody else did it, Like well have you thought 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:57.840 about this or this is what we do in football, 0:06:57.880 --> 0:06:59.120 or this is what we do in motorsport, or this 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:00.880 is what we do in the UFC, And all of 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.039 a sudden, you see people's brains being much more open 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.640 and ah interesting. So I'm seeing a huge appetite now 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:11.200 in golf at the pointy end for yeah, being more 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.480 open to learning from other sports and realizing that just 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.640 because we've done it this way doesn't mean we need 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:17.960 to continue to do it that way. 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.200 If you had to define what pressure is, what is pressure? 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.560 Because we hear that so much. And I remember when Brooks, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.120 when I was working with Brooks and he was on 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.559 his kind of historic major championship run, we were sitting 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.440 at the house at Bethpage Black when he won his 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.360 fourth major un I think it was like the fourth 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.320 majorid one out of like eight or nine that he 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.120 played in. And then people were like, Okay, he's cracked 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.679 the code, right, He's figured out how we were sitting 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.640 and we're having dinner. I think it was Saturday night 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.240 and Brandall Chamblie was on Golf Channel and he was like, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:50.840 you know, he's going to be under a lot of pressure, 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.400 you know, tomorrow and everything, and I'll never forget this. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.200 Brooks just looked up at me and he goes, what 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.520 these people don't realize is the only person or the 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.440 only thing that can make me feel pressure is me. Right, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.960 it's not something that's real. You have to take it 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.000 in and go, Okay, I'm going to be affected by it. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.600 And he said, if you choose not to be affected 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.760 by it, the pressure doesn't bother you. So in your mind, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.480 we hear so much about what pressure in sports, but 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:19.080 what to. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:23.280 You is that, Well, you've touched upon a lot of it. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.240 It's very much an interpretation of a threat, perceived or real. 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.720 There is real threat. We can't deny hundreds of thousands 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.679 of years of evolution. So if we see a deadly 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.120 snake on the floor, our brain is going to have 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.040 a reaction to it. Now, if I'm a professional snake catcher, 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.880 it's going to be a different reaction than you or I. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.920 But interestingly enough, that professional snake catcher will still have 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.040 an elevated heart rate, okay, and some thoughts of death, 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.040 dying and staying alive. But they just don't give that 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.040 much power because they're highly competent. They know what they're 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.680 going to do, they've done it before. They can focus 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.760 on catching that deadly snake, whereas you and I are 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.080 running out the door, right or frozen or whatever. Right. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.360 But people misinterpret. They see that snakecatcher walking in competently 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.400 grabbing the snake from behind the head, and they go, Wow, 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.319 that guy was so calm and confident. He doesn't even 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.480 get scared by scary, deadly snakes. The biggest mythology in 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.120 sports psychology that great athletes don't feel pressure or nerves. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.400 So there is an element that we all will respond 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.640 to an external and an intrinsic threat or pressure or context. 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.760 It's just that our relationship to it is very individual. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.840 That's why I've got I've got football players who will 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:41.319 play in front of a stadium of one hundred and 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.360 twenty thousand people and they're more nervous because their girlfriend 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.360 is bringing their friends along and they don't want to 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.040 play poorly to make her feel embarrassed. Sounds pretty weird. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.560 Big tough meaty ossie footballer who's actually worried about his 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.400 girlfriend's impression management in front of her friend, and that's 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.920 what is making him more nervous than one hundred and 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.960 twenty thousand people and winning and losing a footing match. Right, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.120 So it can be very very personal what pressure is. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.600 Plus we know that through exposure we can develop a 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.160 different relationship to it. And that's almost what I spent 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.240 my life doing is debunking the mythology of pressure. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.200 So how do you go about doing that? And is 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:27.359 it individual for each specific player, because obviously I'm fascinated 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.760 with the players that I work with. They run the 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.600 gamut of personality yep. Right. Currently I work with Dustin Johnson, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.120 who is so laid back, so chilled out, but DJ 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:45.760 nobody realizes he's probably the most positive person I know, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.439 and he's kind of the living embodiment of what everybody 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.800 says you should do in sports, but specifically golf, one 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.560 shot at a time. You can't control the past, you 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.360 can't control the future. And then one of my favorite 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.040 people to work with, who's probably the most negative human 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.080 being I've ever met, Pat Perez, never thinks he's good enough, 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.960 always thinks it's it's not permanent. He always thinks he's 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.040 going to lose it. So how much of how players 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.360 are affected by pressure come from their own background and 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:23.040 their own way of dealing with everything that's happened in 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.720 their life. Because I think the great ones, in my opinion, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.839 are they They're the compartmentalizers. They're the ones that can 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.760 put all of these things in boxes at the right time. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.000 It doesn't mean it necessarily mean they're probably not dealing 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.440 with it. They're just able to go, Okay, I'm just 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.480 not gonna let it affect me at this time. But 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.520 the background of individual athletes that we are as golfers, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.080 how much does that affect how they handle pressure situations? 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.920 Yeah, complex question, A good one, and there's a few 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.800 layers to that. So let's just slow down and walk 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.000 through a few things at one point at a time. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:03.120 So genetics influences our temperament. So we used to think 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.679 that temperament was how we grew up and you know, 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.120 the social world we were exposed to. But we actually 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:15.480 know that that temperament is actually genetically nature versus nurture, correct, Right, 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.079 That's why you can have two children raised in the 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.720 same family, and they're really different in terms of their temperament. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.520 So there's a bit of genetics. There's epigenetics, which is 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.240 a whole other thing of people interested in your podcast 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.079 google some epigenetics. We down a rabbit hole for a while, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.000 but you know, whether your grandfather was a smoker influences 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.600 your genes right now, Like it's pretty amazing. So let's 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.480 just yeah, So firstly we have different temperament. Then we 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.760 have the world we are exposed to, so how we 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.439 learn our relationship to pressure, And then we have personality 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.920 as well, so they're all three intertwine. So the biggest 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.960 thing that we can work with though, is our relationship 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:55.720 with pressure. And you can be you know, a pervasive warrior, 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.680 you can be perfectionistic, you can be highly strung, whatever 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.600 terminalism you want to use, can be laxadaisical and as 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.680 cool as a cucumber, as we say in Australian, you know, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.400 really chilled out, but you can still both of those 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.520 can be major winners world number one and dominate for 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.040 a very long time. Okay, So this idea that there's 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.160 one personality or one temperament or one psychological makeup that 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.920 defines a champion is absolute mythology. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:26.600 You don't see any correlation, You don't see any traits 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.120 that are that you see on a regular basis with 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.480 great champions and the way they deal with pressure. 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.520 Yes, I do how they deal with it, so you 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.720 can be a little bit more highly strung and just 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.760 know that's part of who you are. And the techniques 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.080 that I train my athletes in is very much that 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.480 how do I make room for the noise that will 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.280 inherently show up when pressure comes, and don't let it 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.760 impact my performance. So it's not how worried we get, 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.559 it's whether we can still play the shot in that moment. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.560 If I get caught up in my anxiety story and 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.920 I start steering it de selling, leaving put short, then 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:13.240 I'm getting affected by my interpretation of pressure. Whereas if 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.720 I'm able to unhook from it. In psychology we call 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.600 it diffused diffusion. It's I'm nervous, but I'm able to 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.760 see it as just thoughts and feelings, and I'm able 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.640 to pick a target and commit to my normal swing, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.120 and therefore I hit the shot whilst having nerves. Now 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.200 the commentators on TV or say, look, how calm and 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.440 confident he is now. What they're saying is, look how 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.040 competent he is or her. So it's the ability to 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.240 still play the right shot, irrespective of what story showing up. 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.080 Some people, because of their experience, their background, their temperament, 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:50.440 their personality, how important this is, whatever, will have a 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.480 different volume or story in their brain about this shot. Okay, 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.400 they'll have more negative thoughts or anxious thoughts, whatever labels 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:00.800 we want to give them. I don't even give them 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.240 Labels's call them thoughts, you know, because even positive thoughts 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.760 can distract us. So my training is how to take 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.240 an athlete who might get a bit of noise and 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.360 learn to just make room for it so that then 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.640 behaviorally they're consistent. And when you say, what is the 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.600 overlapping Venn diagram between the extrovert, the introvert, the worry 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.400 of the perfectionists, the stud who just loves the spotlight, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.120 it's all of those who seem to consistently perform well, 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.600 don't give the noise in their brain too much power. Rather, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.920 they come back to the behavioral output that's required in 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.880 this moment. So they're very behaviors. One thing psychologists have 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.200 got wrong, and I read a lot of golf journals 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:40.760 and see a lot of people writing articles on the 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.560 psychology of golf, and they seem to be obsessed with 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.760 athletes thoughts and feelings. If you actually look at the 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.040 history of psychology, we're behaviorists. We studied rats eating pellets 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.640 to touch buttons and pigeons in boxes. You know, Skinner 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.240 and Pavlov with dogs, and we're behaviorists. And if you 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.880 actually look at what is what does gold. 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.440 Pleasure reflex to where if you give about something, they'll 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:05.480 just keep hitting the pleasure. 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:10.280 But literally, right, what is sport? I've never been to 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.520 the Olympics where they've handed out a gold medal and said, hey, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.440 this is for you because you had the most positive 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:20.120 self talk. Right, Hey, you're the most confident. Here's here's 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:21.680 here's a green jacket, here's. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.960 The winner, like it's it's for what you do and golf. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.120 If it was a stale competition, in a technique competition 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.240 which everyone thinks it is, Adam Scott, Scotty and Nellie 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.320 Corter would win. They'd be the judge's favorite because they 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.400 have the best looking technical golfwey. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.160 Correct correct, So we're going to remember that our job. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.720 All of us coaches psychologists. You know, ever is just 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.760 to help that animal or humans, but that animal behave 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.920 in a certain way. My job is to help them 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.200 behave consistently because normally what I see in training is 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.000 pretty damn good. It's can we now then transfer that 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:06.240 into tournament play and not how much you don't change. 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.439 The famous quote, and I think it was Roger Federill 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.360 a pressure pressure is a privallege. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.240 Now do you believe that? Yeah? I do so. Funnily enough, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:16.840 I'm doing a few talks around the world at the 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.760 moment with people from the military, people in the medical sectors, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.919 and the people often hire us and bring us in 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.520 and I actually challenge my fellows on the stage. I say, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.640 I think we're gonna be very careful here if I'm 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.280 in the and I do a lot of work just 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.320 so you know, with surgeons, so how do they perform 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.919 well and focus when there's sirens going off and the 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.160 clients bleeding out of what have you? And for them, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.240 when there's pressure, it normally means something's wrong. 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.040 Okay, I've never thought about that. In the medical world, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.600 a pilot would be the scenes pilently feel pressure when 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:56.280 something is going wrong. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.800 The same as in the military. We've planned this assault 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:01.960 down a valley doing what have you? And then okay, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:03.040 naturally and. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.960 Because it's surgeons pilot's military, because everything is so systematically 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.280 planned out, it should go according to plan. Yeah, and 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:14.679 when it doesn't, that's when the pressure comes. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.520 Correct, correct, I mean, the military are very good at 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.720 preparing for the unexpected. They do a good job of that. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.520 But yes, the point I was trying to make was this, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.399 this this tokenistic line of pressure is a privilege I 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.760 actually think really only holds up in sport. You know, 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.679 sometimes pressure in sport is challenging because you're on the 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.800 cut line or your swing's broken down a little bit. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.080 So you might say, yeah, look I had a fair 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.520 bit of pressure and it was due to adversity. But 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:41.520 traditionally it's I've made the Olympic final, I'm in the 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.800 lead group, I've got my chance to win my first major, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.120 you know. So yeah, I do believe that often the 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.960 better we do in sport, we feel the pressure and 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.320 we think it's a negative thing. We don't like it. 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.800 We want to we want to, you know, we want 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.800 to have it both ways. And I always say it's 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:05.439 the price of entry, it's the price of entry. You 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.159 want to win that green jacket? Yes, I dude. Then 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:08.720 you're not going to sleep well tonight, and you're gonna 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.240 wake up and not want to eat your breakfast, and 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.280 you're going to have a few extra trips to the toilet, 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:13.879 and you're gonna have a bit of noise in the brain. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.840 We know enough about neuroscience to know you're going to 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.480 have some anticipatory anxiety because you know why, you worry 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.320 about things you care about, and you've got this wonderful 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.879 opportunity to go out there and get after something you 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.440 care about. But you know what, there might be some 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.119 you know, pressure that shows up with that. So instead 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.439 of viewing it as this aversive thing that I wish 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:42.520 or hope it doesn't come, it's rather, let's dance. The 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.399 better I do, the louder you get. My relationship to 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.640 you is you know you like my shadow. You're gonna 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.040 follow me round, so you might as well come for 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:50.440 the journey. Let's go. 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.520 You work with Cam Smith? How did you come on 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.800 Cam's team? Why do you think you're on Cam's team? 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:05.000 And what fact do you think that you've helped him with? Yeah? 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.160 Sure, so I joined Cam's team about five years ago. 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.080 He was about sixty five in the world at the time. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.560 I was working previously with Grant Field, you know, Cam's coach, 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.040 and you know he knew of some of the work 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.440 I've done with some of the other players and had 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.200 some good outcomes there, So he'd probably planted the seed 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.880 in the background. And then we met it at Port 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.720 Rush actually had our first went out for dinner. I 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.399 got to know each other and then we started working 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.479 not long after that, and then it's been a good 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:35.920 little journey. He's the coolest kid. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.200 Right right. I mean, he's so much fun to be around. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.960 And I don't claim to know him. Well, I'm a 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.720 work friend. I see him, I talk to him, but 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.639 he seems to be very much in the DJ mode. 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.960 I've just laid back, chilled out. Is he like that 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.920 on the golf course? Does his my appoint being? Does 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.800 his personality off the golf course match his personality on 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.000 the golf course and the way that he deals with 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.440 all of the stuff that goes with trying to win 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.440 big tournaments and winning major championships. 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.760 Yeah, a question I get often. I think people need 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.959 to not mistake. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.560 Having a mullet and laid back cool. 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.800 Look, yeah, jove your personality and perspective, right, Like, the 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.200