1
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to

2
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. This week's guest had a chance to

3
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: sit down and talk to this guy when I was

4
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,479
Speaker 1: down in Australia. Jonah Oliver. He is Cam Smith's performance coach.

5
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: But met him just in the locker room and got

6
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 1: talking to him about, you know, his role with Cam

7
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 1: and everything. But from the minute I started talking to Jonah,

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just he was definitely somebody I wanted

9
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: to have on the podcast. Been doing this for a

10
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,040
Speaker 1: little of her about a year year and a half now,

11
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 1: and I've got to say this was probably the podcast

12
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: that I got the most out of. I could have

13
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: talked to Jonah for a couple of hours. He talks

14
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,519
Speaker 1: about dealing with pressure or talks about performance, but just

15
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: so many good takeaways that if you're a competitive golfer

16
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,199
Speaker 1: or a non competitive golfer, if you're just trying to

17
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 1: improve your handicap. Definitely some stuff that I think that

18
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: everybody that's trying to improve their game and trying to

19
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,520
Speaker 1: improve the way they perform on the golf course, this

20
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,759
Speaker 1: is a good one. You're gonna want to take notes,

21
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 1: and like I said, definitely one that I enjoyed listening

22
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,720
Speaker 1: to and one that I got a lot out of.

23
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: So take a listen to Jonah Oliver. I definitely think

24
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 1: you will enjoy it. All right. So, Jonah, we got

25
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 1: a chance to meet last last week in Australia, and

26
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, just in talking to you and the work

27
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 1: that you've done with Cam Smith is his performance coach.

28
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 1: I just thought it would be fascinating to kind of

29
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 1: pick your brain. First of all, when when when everybody

30
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,400
Speaker 1: listening here is a performance coach to you? What does

31
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: that mean? And how would you define that?

32
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I'm a sports psychologist, so I define

33
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 2: it firstly, so psychologist by training. And I say that

34
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 2: just a clarification. There's a lot of people out there

35
00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 2: who are mental skills coaches, performance coaches, mindset coaches. I'm

36
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 2: a psychologist. I went to university to a bunch of training,

37
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 2: registered with a medical board, so you know, everything that

38
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 2: I do is based in evidence.

39
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 1: What would that be the difference between, you know, because

40
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: obviously there are the golf has been you know, the

41
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 1: main one in golf historically was a guy like Barbarrotella,

42
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 1: you know, where breathing techniques and stuff like that, whereas

43
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,239
Speaker 1: your background is more a doctor background, a clinical background,

44
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 1: And that's different than just someone saying, hey, work on

45
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 1: your pre sharp routine, work on you know, focus, because

46
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: it's much more involved in what you do with the

47
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: training that you've got.

48
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, I mean, firstly, there's a whole bunch of

49
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 2: people out there doing great work regardless of their background.

50
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 2: You know, some people just have a natural intuition. What

51
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,799
Speaker 2: separates maybe a sports psychologist from others is that we're

52
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:56,839
Speaker 2: medically ethically bound by only evidence based interventions. So it's

53
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 2: like going seeing a doctor. They're not going to say

54
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 2: I think this is a good medicine I made up

55
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 2: in my garage. This is based upon you know, science

56
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 2: and evidence. So that's probably the biggest distinguishing factor is

57
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 2: that whatever I do, I've come from a body of science.

58
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 2: To your first question, though, what do I do for

59
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,960
Speaker 2: a living? I help people focus on the right thing

60
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,639
Speaker 2: at the right time. I can't make you more talented.

61
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 2: I can't make you any more than what's you know,

62
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 2: what God put in. But you know, most of the

63
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: time clients come to me and they're like, Jonah, I

64
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,799
Speaker 2: can I can hit a ball, I can drive a

65
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,359
Speaker 2: racing car I can you know, I can train well

66
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 2: when I'm in the in the octagon, sparring, whatever the

67
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 2: sport is, but then they want to do it when

68
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 2: it matters, and they might notice there's a change in

69
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 2: their performance when pressure shows up or outcome shows up.

70
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 2: So you know what do I do. I help people

71
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 2: focus on the right thing at the right time.

72
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I'm always talking to

73
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,320
Speaker 1: all of the players I work with, especially the ones

74
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: trying to play, is this concept of technique versus execution,

75
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: and I think regard and one of the reasons why

76
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: I wanted you to come on and talk. And I

77
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 1: find it fascinated talk to people years your golf round

78
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: isn't specifically golf, And we were talking before we started that,

79
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: I think in the last fifteen years. And I think

80
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: really when the guys at the Titleist Performance Institut Greg

81
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: and Dave Rose, Greg Rose and Dave Philips, when they

82
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: got together and said, Okay, we're going to bring in

83
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,279
Speaker 1: all of these people to try and talk about golf.

84
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,239
Speaker 1: We're going to bring in people from the medical side,

85
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,640
Speaker 1: from the physical side, and then from the golf side

86
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 1: and get all of these people kind of talking and

87
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 1: being on the same page. I think really since the

88
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 1: early two thousands, I've spent more time talking to people

89
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,840
Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily golf specific people or their background isn't

90
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: one hundred percent golf, And so you mentioned other sports.

91
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,080
Speaker 1: One of the things I think that's changed and I'd

92
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: love to get your input on this. Golf has changed

93
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,120
Speaker 1: and evolved to where I think it's getting out of

94
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 1: the golf specific realm because when I was growing up,

95
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: my dad was always a golf and you know, a

96
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 1: coach gave lessons, but golf wasn't cool. It wasn't seen

97
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 1: as a sport. It was just go out, Ben Hogan,

98
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 1: find it in the dirt. You know, there's great stories

99
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 1: about people that just think all of this is just nonsense.

100
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 1: You know. I know some of the trainers at the

101
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,040
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup at Glenn Eagles when Tom Watson was the captain,

102
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 1: their players were trying to get credentials for their coaches,

103
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 1: for their trainers and stuff. And Tom Watson, coming from

104
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: an old school, you don't need any of that, right,

105
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,159
Speaker 1: you don't need any of that stuff. It's just golf

106
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: and we dig it out of the dirt. How do

107
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 1: you see golf has evolved over the last maybe fifteen

108
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 1: to twenty years. And where do you see that in

109
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 1: the realm of other sports that you deal with, from

110
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 1: racing drivers, from other you know, cricketers, from Ossie rules,

111
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 1: and then the work that you do with Cam Smith.

112
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, great question. Well, interestingly enough, I think golf

113
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 2: is relatively mature with examining the side of psychology because

114
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 2: I think even before we had psychologists working with all

115
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 2: tour players like I do, the average the average golfer

116
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 2: out there certainly knew that their head at times got

117
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 2: in their way. Okay, so I think there was quite

118
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 2: a you know, I look at tennis, I look at

119
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 2: for you know, motorsport, I look at golf. They're relatively

120
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 2: mature in having people like myself around the athletes and

121
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 2: the teams. But to your point, coming in as just

122
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,080
Speaker 2: a generalist, I work across all professional sports multiple I've

123
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 2: gone multiple Olympics and worked in all different sectors of

124
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 2: pro sport, is that golf does still have a tendency

125
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 2: to drink from a pretty small fish tank, and sometimes

126
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 2: that that water can get a bit dirty. Right, So

127
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 2: what do people let myself bring in we bring in

128
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 2: the naive question, the informed yet naive question. What I

129
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 2: mean by that is why are you doing that?

130
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 1: But why?

131
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,839
Speaker 2: What? Like give me or because you did it before,

132
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 2: because somebody else did it, Like well have you thought

133
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 2: about this or this is what we do in football,

134
00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 2: or this is what we do in motorsport, or this

135
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 2: is what we do in the UFC, And all of

136
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 2: a sudden, you see people's brains being much more open

137
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: and ah interesting. So I'm seeing a huge appetite now

138
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 2: in golf at the pointy end for yeah, being more

139
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 2: open to learning from other sports and realizing that just

140
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 2: because we've done it this way doesn't mean we need

141
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 2: to continue to do it that way.

142
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 1: If you had to define what pressure is, what is pressure?

143
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 1: Because we hear that so much. And I remember when Brooks,

144
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 1: when I was working with Brooks and he was on

145
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,559
Speaker 1: his kind of historic major championship run, we were sitting

146
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 1: at the house at Bethpage Black when he won his

147
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: fourth major un I think it was like the fourth

148
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: majorid one out of like eight or nine that he

149
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: played in. And then people were like, Okay, he's cracked

150
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,679
Speaker 1: the code, right, He's figured out how we were sitting

151
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 1: and we're having dinner. I think it was Saturday night

152
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: and Brandall Chamblie was on Golf Channel and he was like,

153
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to be under a lot of pressure,

154
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, tomorrow and everything, and I'll never forget this.

155
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: Brooks just looked up at me and he goes, what

156
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: these people don't realize is the only person or the

157
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 1: only thing that can make me feel pressure is me. Right,

158
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 1: it's not something that's real. You have to take it

159
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: in and go, Okay, I'm going to be affected by it.

160
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: And he said, if you choose not to be affected

161
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 1: by it, the pressure doesn't bother you. So in your mind,

162
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: we hear so much about what pressure in sports, but

163
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 1: what to.

164
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: You is that, Well, you've touched upon a lot of it.

165
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 2: It's very much an interpretation of a threat, perceived or real.

166
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 2: There is real threat. We can't deny hundreds of thousands

167
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 2: of years of evolution. So if we see a deadly

168
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 2: snake on the floor, our brain is going to have

169
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 2: a reaction to it. Now, if I'm a professional snake catcher,

170
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 2: it's going to be a different reaction than you or I.

171
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 2: But interestingly enough, that professional snake catcher will still have

172
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 2: an elevated heart rate, okay, and some thoughts of death,

173
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 2: dying and staying alive. But they just don't give that

174
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 2: much power because they're highly competent. They know what they're

175
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,680
Speaker 2: going to do, they've done it before. They can focus

176
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,760
Speaker 2: on catching that deadly snake, whereas you and I are

177
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 2: running out the door, right or frozen or whatever. Right.

178
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 2: But people misinterpret. They see that snakecatcher walking in competently

179
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 2: grabbing the snake from behind the head, and they go, Wow,

180
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,319
Speaker 2: that guy was so calm and confident. He doesn't even

181
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,480
Speaker 2: get scared by scary, deadly snakes. The biggest mythology in

182
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 2: sports psychology that great athletes don't feel pressure or nerves.

183
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 2: So there is an element that we all will respond

184
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 2: to an external and an intrinsic threat or pressure or context.

185
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 2: It's just that our relationship to it is very individual.

186
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 2: That's why I've got I've got football players who will

187
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,319
Speaker 2: play in front of a stadium of one hundred and

188
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 2: twenty thousand people and they're more nervous because their girlfriend

189
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 2: is bringing their friends along and they don't want to

190
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 2: play poorly to make her feel embarrassed. Sounds pretty weird.

191
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 2: Big tough meaty ossie footballer who's actually worried about his

192
00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 2: girlfriend's impression management in front of her friend, and that's

193
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 2: what is making him more nervous than one hundred and

194
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 2: twenty thousand people and winning and losing a footing match. Right,

195
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 2: So it can be very very personal what pressure is.

196
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: Plus we know that through exposure we can develop a

197
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 2: different relationship to it. And that's almost what I spent

198
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 2: my life doing is debunking the mythology of pressure.

199
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 1: So how do you go about doing that? And is

200
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:27,359
Speaker 1: it individual for each specific player, because obviously I'm fascinated

201
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 1: with the players that I work with. They run the

202
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 1: gamut of personality yep. Right. Currently I work with Dustin Johnson,

203
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: who is so laid back, so chilled out, but DJ

204
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 1: nobody realizes he's probably the most positive person I know,

205
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,439
Speaker 1: and he's kind of the living embodiment of what everybody

206
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: says you should do in sports, but specifically golf, one

207
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: shot at a time. You can't control the past, you

208
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: can't control the future. And then one of my favorite

209
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 1: people to work with, who's probably the most negative human

210
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: being I've ever met, Pat Perez, never thinks he's good enough,

211
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: always thinks it's it's not permanent. He always thinks he's

212
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,040
Speaker 1: going to lose it. So how much of how players

213
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 1: are affected by pressure come from their own background and

214
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: their own way of dealing with everything that's happened in

215
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 1: their life. Because I think the great ones, in my opinion,

216
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,839
Speaker 1: are they They're the compartmentalizers. They're the ones that can

217
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 1: put all of these things in boxes at the right time.

218
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean it necessarily mean they're probably not dealing

219
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: with it. They're just able to go, Okay, I'm just

220
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 1: not gonna let it affect me at this time. But

221
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 1: the background of individual athletes that we are as golfers,

222
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,080
Speaker 1: how much does that affect how they handle pressure situations?

223
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, complex question, A good one, and there's a few

224
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 2: layers to that. So let's just slow down and walk

225
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 2: through a few things at one point at a time.

226
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 2: So genetics influences our temperament. So we used to think

227
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 2: that temperament was how we grew up and you know,

228
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 2: the social world we were exposed to. But we actually

229
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 2: know that that temperament is actually genetically nature versus nurture, correct, Right,

230
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,079
Speaker 2: That's why you can have two children raised in the

231
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 2: same family, and they're really different in terms of their temperament.

232
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 2: So there's a bit of genetics. There's epigenetics, which is

233
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 2: a whole other thing of people interested in your podcast

234
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,079
Speaker 2: google some epigenetics. We down a rabbit hole for a while,

235
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 2: but you know, whether your grandfather was a smoker influences

236
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 2: your genes right now, Like it's pretty amazing. So let's

237
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 2: just yeah, So firstly we have different temperament. Then we

238
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 2: have the world we are exposed to, so how we

239
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,439
Speaker 2: learn our relationship to pressure, And then we have personality

240
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 2: as well, so they're all three intertwine. So the biggest

241
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 2: thing that we can work with though, is our relationship

242
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,720
Speaker 2: with pressure. And you can be you know, a pervasive warrior,

243
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 2: you can be perfectionistic, you can be highly strung, whatever

244
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 2: terminalism you want to use, can be laxadaisical and as

245
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,680
Speaker 2: cool as a cucumber, as we say in Australian, you know,

246
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 2: really chilled out, but you can still both of those

247
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 2: can be major winners world number one and dominate for

248
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 2: a very long time. Okay, So this idea that there's

249
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 2: one personality or one temperament or one psychological makeup that

250
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: defines a champion is absolute mythology.

251
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 1: You don't see any correlation, You don't see any traits

252
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: that are that you see on a regular basis with

253
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: great champions and the way they deal with pressure.

254
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I do how they deal with it, so you

255
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 2: can be a little bit more highly strung and just

256
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: know that's part of who you are. And the techniques

257
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 2: that I train my athletes in is very much that

258
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 2: how do I make room for the noise that will

259
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 2: inherently show up when pressure comes, and don't let it

260
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 2: impact my performance. So it's not how worried we get,

261
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 2: it's whether we can still play the shot in that moment.

262
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 2: If I get caught up in my anxiety story and

263
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 2: I start steering it de selling, leaving put short, then

264
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 2: I'm getting affected by my interpretation of pressure. Whereas if

265
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,720
Speaker 2: I'm able to unhook from it. In psychology we call

266
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 2: it diffused diffusion. It's I'm nervous, but I'm able to

267
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 2: see it as just thoughts and feelings, and I'm able

268
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 2: to pick a target and commit to my normal swing,

269
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 2: and therefore I hit the shot whilst having nerves. Now

270
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 2: the commentators on TV or say, look, how calm and

271
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,440
Speaker 2: confident he is now. What they're saying is, look how

272
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 2: competent he is or her. So it's the ability to

273
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,240
Speaker 2: still play the right shot, irrespective of what story showing up.

274
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 2: Some people, because of their experience, their background, their temperament,

275
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,440
Speaker 2: their personality, how important this is, whatever, will have a

276
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 2: different volume or story in their brain about this shot. Okay,

277
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 2: they'll have more negative thoughts or anxious thoughts, whatever labels

278
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 2: we want to give them. I don't even give them

279
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 2: Labels's call them thoughts, you know, because even positive thoughts

280
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 2: can distract us. So my training is how to take

281
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 2: an athlete who might get a bit of noise and

282
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 2: learn to just make room for it so that then

283
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 2: behaviorally they're consistent. And when you say, what is the

284
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 2: overlapping Venn diagram between the extrovert, the introvert, the worry

285
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 2: of the perfectionists, the stud who just loves the spotlight,

286
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 2: it's all of those who seem to consistently perform well,

287
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 2: don't give the noise in their brain too much power. Rather,

288
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 2: they come back to the behavioral output that's required in

289
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 2: this moment. So they're very behaviors. One thing psychologists have

290
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 2: got wrong, and I read a lot of golf journals

291
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: and see a lot of people writing articles on the

292
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 2: psychology of golf, and they seem to be obsessed with

293
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 2: athletes thoughts and feelings. If you actually look at the

294
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 2: history of psychology, we're behaviorists. We studied rats eating pellets

295
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 2: to touch buttons and pigeons in boxes. You know, Skinner

296
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 2: and Pavlov with dogs, and we're behaviorists. And if you

297
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 2: actually look at what is what does gold.

298
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 1: Pleasure reflex to where if you give about something, they'll

299
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: just keep hitting the pleasure.

300
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 2: But literally, right, what is sport? I've never been to

301
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 2: the Olympics where they've handed out a gold medal and said, hey,

302
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 2: this is for you because you had the most positive

303
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: self talk. Right, Hey, you're the most confident. Here's here's

304
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 2: here's a green jacket, here's.

305
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: The winner, like it's it's for what you do and golf.

306
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: If it was a stale competition, in a technique competition

307
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 1: which everyone thinks it is, Adam Scott, Scotty and Nellie

308
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: Corter would win. They'd be the judge's favorite because they

309
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 1: have the best looking technical golfwey.

310
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 2: Correct correct, So we're going to remember that our job.

311
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 2: All of us coaches psychologists. You know, ever is just

312
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 2: to help that animal or humans, but that animal behave

313
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 2: in a certain way. My job is to help them

314
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 2: behave consistently because normally what I see in training is

315
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 2: pretty damn good. It's can we now then transfer that

316
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 2: into tournament play and not how much you don't change.

317
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,439
Speaker 1: The famous quote, and I think it was Roger Federill

318
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: a pressure pressure is a privallege.

319
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 2: Now do you believe that? Yeah? I do so. Funnily enough,

320
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 2: I'm doing a few talks around the world at the

321
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 2: moment with people from the military, people in the medical sectors,

322
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 2: and the people often hire us and bring us in

323
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 2: and I actually challenge my fellows on the stage. I say,

324
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,640
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna be very careful here if I'm

325
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 2: in the and I do a lot of work just

326
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 2: so you know, with surgeons, so how do they perform

327
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,919
Speaker 2: well and focus when there's sirens going off and the

328
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 2: clients bleeding out of what have you? And for them,

329
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 2: when there's pressure, it normally means something's wrong.

330
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 1: Okay, I've never thought about that. In the medical world,

331
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: a pilot would be the scenes pilently feel pressure when

332
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: something is going wrong.

333
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: The same as in the military. We've planned this assault

334
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 2: down a valley doing what have you? And then okay,

335
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: naturally and.

336
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: Because it's surgeons pilot's military, because everything is so systematically

337
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: planned out, it should go according to plan. Yeah, and

338
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 1: when it doesn't, that's when the pressure comes.

339
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, I mean, the military are very good at

340
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 2: preparing for the unexpected. They do a good job of that.

341
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 2: But yes, the point I was trying to make was this,

342
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 2: this this tokenistic line of pressure is a privilege I

343
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 2: actually think really only holds up in sport. You know,

344
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 2: sometimes pressure in sport is challenging because you're on the

345
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,800
Speaker 2: cut line or your swing's broken down a little bit.

346
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 2: So you might say, yeah, look I had a fair

347
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 2: bit of pressure and it was due to adversity. But

348
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 2: traditionally it's I've made the Olympic final, I'm in the

349
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 2: lead group, I've got my chance to win my first major,

350
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,120
Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, I do believe that often the

351
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: better we do in sport, we feel the pressure and

352
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 2: we think it's a negative thing. We don't like it.

353
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 2: We want to we want to, you know, we want

354
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 2: to have it both ways. And I always say it's

355
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:05,439
Speaker 2: the price of entry, it's the price of entry. You

356
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 2: want to win that green jacket? Yes, I dude. Then

357
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 2: you're not going to sleep well tonight, and you're gonna

358
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 2: wake up and not want to eat your breakfast, and

359
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 2: you're going to have a few extra trips to the toilet,

360
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 2: and you're gonna have a bit of noise in the brain.

361
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 2: We know enough about neuroscience to know you're going to

362
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 2: have some anticipatory anxiety because you know why, you worry

363
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: about things you care about, and you've got this wonderful

364
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 2: opportunity to go out there and get after something you

365
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 2: care about. But you know what, there might be some

366
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,119
Speaker 2: you know, pressure that shows up with that. So instead

367
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,439
Speaker 2: of viewing it as this aversive thing that I wish

368
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: or hope it doesn't come, it's rather, let's dance. The

369
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 2: better I do, the louder you get. My relationship to

370
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 2: you is you know you like my shadow. You're gonna

371
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 2: follow me round, so you might as well come for

372
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 2: the journey. Let's go.

373
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: You work with Cam Smith? How did you come on

374
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: Cam's team? Why do you think you're on Cam's team?

375
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: And what fact do you think that you've helped him with? Yeah?

376
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 2: Sure, so I joined Cam's team about five years ago.

377
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 2: He was about sixty five in the world at the time.

378
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 2: I was working previously with Grant Field, you know, Cam's coach,

379
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 2: and you know he knew of some of the work

380
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 2: I've done with some of the other players and had

381
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: some good outcomes there, So he'd probably planted the seed

382
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 2: in the background. And then we met it at Port

383
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: Rush actually had our first went out for dinner. I

384
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 2: got to know each other and then we started working

385
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,479
Speaker 2: not long after that, and then it's been a good

386
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: little journey. He's the coolest kid.

387
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 1: Right right. I mean, he's so much fun to be around.

388
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: And I don't claim to know him. Well, I'm a

389
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 1: work friend. I see him, I talk to him, but

390
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,639
Speaker 1: he seems to be very much in the DJ mode.

391
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: I've just laid back, chilled out. Is he like that

392
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: on the golf course? Does his my appoint being? Does

393
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: his personality off the golf course match his personality on

394
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: the golf course and the way that he deals with

395
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 1: all of the stuff that goes with trying to win

396
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: big tournaments and winning major championships.

397
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, a question I get often. I think people need

398
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,959
Speaker 2: to not mistake.

399
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: Having a mullet and laid back cool.

400
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: Look, yeah, jove your personality and perspective, right, Like, the

401
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 2: one thing Cam does so well is he's so quick

402
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 2: to refresh, meaning if he's not played well, he'll be

403
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: annoyed for a little bit, hit the range, fix up

404
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 2: whatever he's working on, and then we're not talking golf,

405
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 2: we're talking fishing in cars and he can switch off. Right.

406
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: It's because, you know why, because he doesn't define himself

407
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 2: as a golfer. He's Cam And as a psychologist, I

408
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 2: take that really deeply and personally that my job is

409
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 2: to help the human and a lot of that is

410
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: reminding them that they're a whole human that happens to

411
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 2: have a job called golf. And when you're at work,

412
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 2: you take it seriously, you do it damn well. But

413
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: when it's done, you're allowed to go and nurture the

414
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 2: other domains of your life. He's still a son, a brother,

415
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: you know, he's engaged, he's a mate, he's a smart ass,

416
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 2: he's you know, that's Cam, and he's allowed to reconnect

417
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: to those other areas of his life even in the

418
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,959
Speaker 2: middle of a tournament, because he'll pick it up tomorrow

419
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: morning when we get to the range again. But what

420
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: people misinterpret is they see that somewhat Ossie Larican sort

421
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 2: of kid and think that that's just how he goes

422
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: about his golf. He is one of the most dilled in, serious,

423
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: switched on, engaged athletes I work with, and I'm fortunate

424
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 2: enough to work with a lot around the world in

425
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: all different contexts, and he's literally some of the best

426
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: I've ever seen in terms of his application and focus

427
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: because he sort of has a bit that white line fever.

428
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: When he steps over the white line, it's you know,

429
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: he switches it on. I think he's very good at

430
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: what I call simple brilliance. Simple brilliance which means what

431
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: it means he doesn't suffer fool so he only values

432
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: things that he sees genuine. He makes an impact on

433
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 2: his game. He doesn't go chasing shadows and just searching

434
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: for things. If the swing's not quite where it is,

435
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: or he knows the things that work, he knows the

436
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 2: things he needs to do to improve that. You know,

437
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: the team around him is very small. It's literally a

438
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: very small team, and that serves him well. I call

439
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: it the margari to pizza. You know three ingredients, right,

440
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 2: I'll drive across New York to go find an awesome

441
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: wood fired pizza and pay it good money than the

442
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: five dollar pizza that's got all the ingredients. And the

443
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 2: meat lovers right, well, I see a lot of golfers

444
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: out there with meat lover's pizzas. They're just throwing too

445
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: many ingredients on and drowning it in sweet barbecue sauce

446
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: and convincing themselves it's tasty, Whereas it's actually hard to

447
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 2: cook a three ingredient pizza that it tastes good because

448
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: you've got to cook it just right and have the

449
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: best ingredients. And that's sort of the philosophy I use

450
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: with him, what Grant uses with him. We only add

451
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: minimal input that makes an impact.

452
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: I always see the players trying to be a three

453
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: Michelin star cheft and you don't really know how to cook.

454
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: I see so many players, Jonah, they're trying to get

455
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: good at everything. Yeah, and you know, and I think

456
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: a lot of this comes from I think one of

457
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: the negative effects of the Tiger era and what Tiger

458
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: did is this idea that you can be Tiger Woods,

459
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: that you can have all the shots. Hank Haney famous,

460
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: You've got to have all nine ball flights. And I

461
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: see so many players going, no, I'm trying to work

462
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: it both ways, trying, and they're spending so much time

463
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: and effort to try and get good at everything, but

464
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 1: they're really average to mediocre and sometimes poor at all

465
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: of it. They're not really great at anything. So I

466
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: always say, listen, just make great omelets. Great omelets have

467
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: a couple of ingredients. Doesn't have make a great cheeseburger,

468
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: just a couple of ingredients. And if you can make

469
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: a thousand of those, and every time someone eats them

470
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: and says, man, that's a really good omelet, can you

471
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 1: make me another one? Yeah, I can make you another armelet.

472
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: And then if you're the omelet maker in the restaurant,

473
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: eventually they're gonna ask you to do something else because

474
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: you're so good at making omelets. But if you can't

475
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: make a three. And I find it really fascinating that

476
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: a lot of golfers that are trying to play, when

477
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: you actually talk to them about what they're trying to do,

478
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: Like you said, they're just trying to throw as many

479
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: ingredients into the mix as possible, and they don't know

480
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: why they're doing that. They don't know what from a chef.

481
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: I always use Chefinale's. They don't know what flavors actually

482
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: work together. They throw all this stuff on and you're like,

483
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: and that just tastes awful. Yeah, there's nothing cohesive about it.

484
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: One of the things I thought that was really interesting

485
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: that you said about Cam is his ability to reset

486
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: talk me through that. And is that something you've helped

487
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: him with or is that something that comes from him

488
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: and comes from within.

489
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, answers both. Firstly, he was already very good when

490
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: I joined the team, and he has a lot of

491
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 2: the right yeah make up. He's a gritty kid. He's

492
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: grown up on a really challenging sort of you know,

493
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: not a perfect golf course. It was tough conditions.

494
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: I talked to Grant about that. I love that. Yeah,

495
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: I love the fact that it wasn't perfect. So many players.

496
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: You know, we live in Jupiter, Florida, which is like

497
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: ground zero for golfers, And there was a kid just

498
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: graduated from college, went to Division one college, big program,

499
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: and he doesn't really have a lot of money, and

500
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: he was like saying, hey, you know, the only club

501
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: that I can get in and afford to join, they

502
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: don't have pro v one exes on the range, and

503
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get any better unless i can

504
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: be at a club where I've got prov one excess.

505
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: And I'm like the fact that you're thinking like that

506
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: is so far removed from what you actually need to

507
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: do to actually make it.

508
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's an expression that I've used fair bit.

509
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: It's not mine, but I love it. It's called you know,

510
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: it's hard to survive in the jungle if you're trained

511
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 2: in the zoo. That's you know, he.

512
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: Said that, and that's one of the reasons why I

513
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: wanted to bring you on to talk because that is

514
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: so appropriate. For so many players they think that the

515
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: only way they can make it is in the zoo.

516
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: Well, we do it as professionals, right, So I just think,

517
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: for a mode if I say that again for the listeners,

518
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: it's hard to survive in the jungle if you're trained

519
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: in the zoo. So why do a lot of Aussies

520
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: make it in world sport? We bad above our weight

521
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: where a tiny country twenty million people will get. We

522
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: seem to do okay a lot of sports, right.

523
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: And as we've all found out, it takes a long

524
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: way from everywhere else in the world to get around

525
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: to us.

526
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, now why is that? Well, I think one of

527
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: the reasons is that we didn't necessarily have great resources.

528
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, our golf courses were you know, bumpy greens

529
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: and you'd hardly call them a fairway. You know, in cricket,

530
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: you know, the conditions were tough. In football, we don't

531
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: wear pads, you know, and so naturally, growing up in

532
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: Australia you have to. It's a little bit like the jungle.

533
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 2: So then when we go out onto the world stage,

534
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: it's actually it's almost easier in some degrees. Right, We're

535
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: getting a bit away from it. That's a whole other

536
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: podcasts about how I think in Australia we're now becoming

537
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: almost too professional and creating these lovely training environments that

538
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: I see. But yeah, when I do travel the world

539
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: and I see these youth academies and coaches being so

540
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: well intentioned, they're trying to do the best thing for

541
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: their athletes. They're trying to give them these beautiful facilities

542
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: and beautiful training you know, environments, but they're removing the

543
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: very competitive edge of being a ferocious, hungry line. I mean,

544
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: what does a line look like in the jungle, skinny,

545
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: covered in scars and hungry. So when that caribou walks past.

546
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: It's bam right and will do anything.

547
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: Literally to eat literally. Whereas we know the ones in

548
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: the zoo that have had their main or shampooed and

549
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: condition and they line they're sort of lazy and fat

550
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: because another carcass gets thrown over the fence. So we've

551
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: got to be really intentional with what we expose our

552
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: athletes too, to the thinking about the ferociousness of that

553
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: hungry lion. To extend the metaphor, it's not how hard

554
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: something is, it's how important something is. You know. It's

555
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: not how hard something is, it's how important something is.

556
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: I use a lot of metaphor in my therapy because

557
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: that's how brains learn, and I always use this one.

558
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: I say, if I'm playing basketball in the street with

559
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: my kids and a ball rolls onto the road and

560
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: a car comes, I'll stand back and let the car

561
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: hit the ball. I'll apologize and we'll get on playing basketball.

562
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: But if my daughter runs out to get that ball

563
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: as that car is coming, I'm out there right. I

564
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: don't care how painful, how many bones, I don't care

565
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: if that car kills me because of how important my

566
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: daughter is. So we've got to understand that if you

567
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: want athletes to do hard things, you can't motivate them.

568
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: It's their own journey, but you can help them connect

569
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: to their importance what it means to them. And when

570
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: I help my clients connect to the meaning behind their

571
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: career or whatever they're pursuing, they'll endure a great hardship,

572
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: which might mean taking on the water on the eighteenth,

573
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, hitting this shot, doing the training even though

574
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: it's boring and monotonous, whatever like. It just doesn't matter

575
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: what the challenge is. It's if there's something of importance

576
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: at play, we're much more willing to make room for

577
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: the discomfort, which is right back to what we spoke

578
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: about earlier in terms of our relationship to pressure. You know,

579
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: pressure can cause pain, psychological pain, discomfort. Well, if I

580
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: know my affort is really connected to their why, then

581
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: they're willing to feel immense amount of discomfort. Cam was

582
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: so nervous on those final seven holes at the open

583
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: he couldn't even swallow water.

584
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: And it looked outwardly right, you know, the old duck

585
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: under the water and stuff like that right.

586
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: But he was connected to what he wanted to do.

587
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 2: We knew he wasn't ever going to compromise on his

588
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: course management because that's so important to how we go

589
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: about a business. You know, I'm willing to lose a tournament,

590
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to compromise on being the best

591
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: version of myself how I play this golf course and

592
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: staying true to that. But calm, confident, free of nerves

593
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: and anxiety like no, he was. You know, he was human,

594
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: He was normal. He was nervous as heck, but it

595
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: didn't impact the way he went about his place.

596
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: You know, Brooks had a chance to win the Masters,

597
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: and in talking to him, I mean he was devastated.

598
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: He really was, and I don't think he shows a

599
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: lot of that hour. He Brooks seems like he's an alpha.

600
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: Those of us that know him privately know that he

601
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily an alpha, but it's advantageous in sports to

602
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: have other people think you're an alpha. But he said

603
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: that he felt very strange in that final round on Sunday,

604
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: that he felt something that he had never really felt before,

605
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: and he sure surely didn't the first three days. Is

606
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: He said that he felt for the first time on

607
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: the golf course that he was trying to not hit

608
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: a bad shot, and I said, and he said, I

609
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: just I And he was really really upset and taken

610
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: aback by that, And I said, you know what that

611
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: shows is it shows that you care. It shows that

612
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: you want to win a green jacket and want to

613
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: win a Master's and be able to go upstairs in

614
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: the champions. But that tournament, I think, more than any

615
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: for golfers is the holy grail because of everything that

616
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: goes with it. And I think outwardly Brooks and his

617
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: persona is I don't practice nothing bothers me, I don't care.

618
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: And I said, the great thing is after everything that

619
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: you've gone through to where you had this meteoric rise.

620
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: You got to be number one in the world, you

621
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: won all these majors, then you had the perfect storm

622
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: of injury, whatever, and now you're rebuilding kind of Brooks

623
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: two point zero. It should show you that you care

624
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: and that should be the catalyst that is the second

625
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: phase of your career to start from there, because I

626
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: look at what he went through as yeah, I mean

627
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: I I'd give anything to go back and be sitting

628
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: there and watching him put on a green jacket. But

629
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: I think the fact that he had to go through

630
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: that having had so much success is actually important for

631
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: the next stage of his career.

632
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's interesting. I love hearing that. You know, firstly,

633
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: you can be super alpha male and still be nervous.

634
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: You can be super alpha male and still worry. You

635
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: can be super alpha male and still have you know,

636
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: tournament nerves about closing out. So that's fine. Yeah, it

637
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: just showed me that he worries about things you care about,

638
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: cares about which you identified. Our brain will always orientate

639
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: to a threat before a positive stimulus. That's normal.

640
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

641
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: You know, you stand on a tea box, You'll see

642
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: the water before you see landing spot in the fairway.

643
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: You'll our brains. If I put a thousand dollars cash

644
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: on this table and a deadly spider, you know your

645
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: eyes will always do a rapid seccatic movement to the

646
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: spider first before you look at the money. Our brains

647
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: have evolved. Always evaluate threat first. Now we always have

648
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: a healthy tension between hatred of losing and love of winning.

649
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: They danced every single day in pro sport, right, and

650
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: most really really good athletes have a high hatred of losing,

651
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: if we're going to be truly.

652
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: Honest, four more than they're actually literally, right, Tiger is

653
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: the living.

654
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: Literally and some days though, that just hijacks our focus,

655
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: now attention more than it, you know, than the desired behavior.

656
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: So it's all of a sudden where we're focusing on

657
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: the hazards, We're focusing on the you know, the spots

658
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: we don't want to have the ball, and all of

659
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: a sudden we start maybe desailling, steering, clubbing down, whatever

660
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 2: it is. You know, we get to that avoidance type

661
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: play versus just playing our brand of golf. And that's

662
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: that's ultimately the work I try to do. And when

663
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: you said, you know, what have I done with Cam,

664
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: I would say change his relationship to nerves and anxiety

665
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: and pressure, where he learned that's okay to feel that way.

666
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 2: And when just that alone meant that when those tournament

667
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: nerves show up, he doesn't see it as an aversive

668
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: thing or a problem. If I don't see it as

669
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: a problem, then I don't need to turn to it

670
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: and do something with it, right, which then allows me

671
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: to just keep playing my brand of golf, which means

672
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: I don't change. So what does Cam do better than

673
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: most people in the world not change? He stays consistent

674
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: no matter the context. We know, I could turn on

675
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: the television not see the score, you know the score,

676
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: and I'd be able to see the same course management,

677
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: same shot, same approach, whether it's a practice round or

678
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: at the final round of them of the open, right,

679
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: and so hearing that story you know of Brooks, and

680
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: it's about, yeah, how much did the course management change

681
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 2: or the target selection change, or even just the swing

682
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: mechanics change based upon his relationship with what's happening internally.

683
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: You know, there's one term I will introduce feel list

684
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: is called meta cognitive worry. Okay, you don't need to

685
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: remember it, but it's interesting, right, metacognition. A cognition is

686
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: a thought and what we attend to. So it's you know,

687
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: a metacognition is the judgment of that. I'll make it

688
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: really simple. There's anxiety or worry, and then there's the

689
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: worry that I'm worried. Right, So you a bit nervous

690
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: before your first T shirt or something, and then you're

691
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: walking up to the tee going oh no, oh, come on,

692
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 2: come down. Don't you come on, don't be nervous, Come

693
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: on that chatter. There is metacognition. It's the worry that

694
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: you're nervous, which means if you have somehow bored into

695
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: a story that being nervous is a problem, and you're

696
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: now trying to get rid of those nerves, which you'll

697
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: fail at, you've just set your metacognitions on fire. So

698
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: that's what panic is in sport or you know, losing

699
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: focus or choking or whatever. It's not actually being nervous.

700
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: It's trying to get rid of your nerves and failing

701
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: and then freaking out that you're failing at doing something

702
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: you deeply believe. You need to change or you can't

703
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: play golf. So for anybody listening today, it's learn this.

704
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: You can play your best golf whilst being so nervous

705
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: if you don't worry that you're nervous. Just let it

706
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: be there. And if I just let it be there,

707
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: it's like music in the background. Just let it be

708
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 2: there and bring my attention back to the shot, the target,

709
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 2: and commit to that swing. Then all of a sudden

710
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: you change your story or your relationship to your nerves.

711
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: A lot of my clients after time say oh, Jonah,

712
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: well this works great. I don't get nervous anymore. I said, really,

713
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: you still do tell me about that? So how was

714
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: your breakfast this morning? Oh yeah, I didn't really want

715
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: to eat my breakfast and you sleep, Oh yeah, it

716
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: was a bit light. And how many times you get

717
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: the toilet this morning? Yep? A few extra times. And

718
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: you know, all of a sudden, they're like, oh, what

719
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 2: I mean is I don't care that I get nervous anymore?

720
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: I say, ah, isn't that freeing?

721
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: Can you turn your brain off? We always say, I mean,

722
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: I do that, and I'm sure it's all bullshit because

723
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying a player, I'll say that sometimes. But you'll

724
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: have players that I work with or we all work with,

725
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: that you know that they're so in their own head,

726
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: and I'll always say, listen, just try and turn your

727
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: brain off today and just focus on hitting golf shots.

728
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: Is it possible on the golf course and in sport

729
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: to turn that constant chatter part of your brain off

730
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: and perform and do great athletes and performers actually do that?

731
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: Or is that just a made up bullshit phrase that

732
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: you throw out.

733
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 2: It's the second part of your advice, that's actually what

734
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: is the most important. You said, turn your brain off, bracket.

735
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: You can't do that, that's neu scientifically impossible. But you said,

736
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: and focus on your golf shot. So what we want

737
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: to do is we want to shift our attention if

738
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm focusing on my thinking. So let's first start. Why

739
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: do we overthink in life and particularly in fine motor

740
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,959
Speaker 2: controls sports like golf, where you've got lots of time

741
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: between shots, right? Is that the benefit of having this

742
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: evolved frontal lobe is we're really good at thinking, planning,

743
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, time traveling to what's next in the future,

744
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: and it's serving us. So well, we're building rockets and

745
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 2: sending them to Mars like this. You know, we're eating

746
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: lots of protein. Our frontal lobe is growing, we're getting

747
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 2: smarter and smarter, but we're also getting really good at

748
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: worrying and thinking and analyzing and ruminating and all this stuff. Right,

749
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: So what we have to learn to do is be

750
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 2: really intentional with our thinking and focus. So it's about

751
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: shifting to something of importance. Now, if I can learn

752
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 2: that I can't actually think this golf ball into the air,

753
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't think a low golf score, right,

754
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: It's by what I do with my hands and my

755
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: feet and this club face. So therefore, let go of

756
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: my attempts to think the golf course, you know, Rather,

757
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: what do I need to do here? Back to those behaviors? Right?

758
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 2: So for me, yep, I'm getting caught up in overthinking

759
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: and trying to solve the future through why because I'm

760
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: anxious and I don't want to fail and I want

761
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: to succeed. Make room for that and come back to

762
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: the here and now about my behavior executions, you know.

763
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: So I always say it's three things. It's not about

764
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: reducing stress and pressure. It's about building capacity to embrace more.

765
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: Physical trainers got this a long time ago, right, physiotherapists

766
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: and sports trainers got this way before psychology. What happened

767
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: when with a football player when they tear a calf,

768
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five years ago, certainly in Australia, you'd

769
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: come off the field, they'd put an ice pack on.

770
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: It, rub some dirt on it and get back out.

771
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: Well they'd restue, Right, let's just rest you for a

772
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: few weeks and you'd get better and you'd run back

773
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 2: out there and a few weeks later you'd tear it again.

774
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: They say, we didn't restue long enough, so they'd make

775
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: your rest for six weeks, and then you'd go out

776
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: and tear your calf again, and you'd have a terrible

777
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 2: season and ripen. More recently, thankfully, due to good sports science,

778
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: they went, the reason you're tearing your calf is your

779
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: calves aren't strong enough. So within two weeks of doing

780
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: a calf tair, you're in the gym now doing weights

781
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: because they're saying, if you want to be a football player,

782
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: your calf needs to be needs to be able to

783
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: handle the load of football, and right now your calves

784
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: can't handle the load of football. Well, psychologically it's the same.

785
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: We need to build our athletes up so they can

786
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: handle the load of professional golf. Not calm down, deep breathe,

787
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: go to a happy place, be more calm and confident.

788
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: What they're playing for millions and dollars in front of

789
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: the world, doing something that's really hard against a bunch

790
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: of other guys who are really good. You've got to

791
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: actually build your capacity for embracing more so, I always

792
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: using a metaphor of like a cup and a jug,

793
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: and I say, if this cup's you, and the water

794
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: as I'm pouring into the cup is your stress. And

795
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: as it's going up, you know you're on the cut line.

796
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: Oh you made it. You then shot really low. You're

797
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: in the final group. Oh they're doing COVID swabs. You

798
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: might get ruled out with COVID. Your dog just died,

799
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: you know. Jonah, I'm about to overflow. I need to

800
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: calm down. I'm stressed out. I say, have it. Don't

801
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: be the cup, habit you be the picture, be the jug,

802
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 2: pour the water back in the jug. And look, there's

803
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of room for more. Humans can do

804
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: so much more than we give credit. It's just we

805
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: get so focused on wanting to reduce our stress and pressure.

806
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: So we've got to build our capacity to embrace more.

807
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: Second one, it's not about positive thinking. It's about taking

808
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: positive action no matter what you think. We're obsessed with

809
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: positive thinking. The ball doesn't give a shit what you're thinking,

810
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: doesn't know. So it's not about reducing stress and pressure.

811
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: It's about embracing the capacity for more. It's not about

812
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: positive thinking. It's about taking positive action no matter what

813
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: you feel. And It's not how hard something is, it's

814
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: how important something is. And so when I work with athletes,

815
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: it's okay, Jonah, I'm hiring you because I'm getting too nervous,

816
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: I get too negative, I get too angry, I get

817
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: too stressed out. I say, well, you've come to the

818
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: wrong guy. I'm not going to get rid of any

819
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: of that because you're human, because you can't. I'm going

820
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: to increase your ability for sitting with that and not

821
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: changing club head speed or dcelling or you know, leaving

822
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: punch short. Let's make sure we're behaviorally consistent.

823
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: One of the things I think people struggle with is

824
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: the time part of golf. There's so much time. I mean,

825
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: if you think about it's seventy two. I mean, if

826
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: you shoot even par, we really need you to be

827
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: focusing for very short bursts of time, right, because it's not.

828
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: And the reason why I wanted to bring this up

829
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: is I thought we were talking about your work with

830
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: race car drivers and stuff, and I found it fascinating

831
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: that you said that there are points during Formula one

832
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: as an example, there's so much that goes into every corner.

833
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: They're constantly having to change the core there's the forces

834
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: on their body, there's the engineers in their ears. And

835
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: you said that in the long straits, where the car

836
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: is going the fastest is where you have the reset

837
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: for the driver slash athlete, and you say to the engineers,

838
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: that's his time, whether that's five, ten, fifteen seconds, whatever

839
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: is that's the reset. You told me that you've got

840
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 1: drivers doing relaxing their shoulders, taking a drip of water,

841
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: stretching the neck out, when the car is going the fastest,

842
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: when it is arguably the most dangerous, that's the reset.

843
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: That resonated with me because I'm thinking golfers have so

844
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: much time in the course of a competitive round of

845
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: golf in between shots. What are some tools. Obviously they're

846
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: generalization and generic, but what are some things that golfers

847
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: can be doing, specifically competitive golfers in between shots to

848
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: help them. I remember Brooks when he won his first

849
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: US Open. He had a shot at Aaron Hills, was

850
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: on the back nine. It was a really difficult shot.

851
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: He was right in the mix. I think he was

852
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: like tied for the lead. It was a back right

853
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: pin and the announcers were saying, this is really really

854
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: dangerous because he missed it this way and he hit

855
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: a really really great shot and he and Ricky walking

856
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: up to it were in a pretty big conversation and

857
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: we flew When we were flying up later that night,

858
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: I said, where were you guys talking about? And he

859
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: was like, we were actually talking about where we were

860
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: going to stay in Thailand and we were planning a

861
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: trip to go to Thailand. I'm thinking, where the hell's

862
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: that coming from?

863
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: Right?

864
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: But to me, that's an example of taking pressure off

865
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: by taking yourself out of the situation you're in.

866
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, so love that you recognize that. You know,

867
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 2: the worst thing golfers do is they try to stay

868
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: switched on for the round of golf. And then that

869
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: was run out of petrol, right, run out of field.

870
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: Because mentally it just gets.

871
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 2: Literally and I see that, you know in early careers

872
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: where people will hit a shot tracking it, they're watching it,

873
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: they see where it lands, and they're just thinking about

874
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: either the next shot or whatever it is, or the

875
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: previous shot, the swing mechanics, the ball flight, that they're

876
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: just not giving their brain a chance to just decompress

877
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: and switch off. So yeah, definitely, one trick is to

878
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: know that once you've hit that shot and you've seen

879
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: where you know where it lands. It's let's solve that

880
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: puzzle when we get to it.

881
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: And it's a new puzzle, right, Every shot that you

882
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: have is not part of a puzzle. No, every part

883
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: of every shot you're going to have is another puzzle

884
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: that you've got to solve. Because I do that when

885
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: I play. You know, I have so much thoughts in

886
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: my head. I have so much information that I go

887
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: up and I play golf and if one thing doesn't work,

888
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying another technique. So every shot you hit is

889
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: its own individual puzzle that you're trying to solve.

890
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: So I always say I like, you know, depending on

891
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: the distance of the hole, but it's like, Okay, you're

892
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: going to think about that T shot because you've just

893
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: hit it. So tune into that T shot if there's

894
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: something of meaning to actually learn from it, So hit

895
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: the T shot you might take, give yourself, you know,

896
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: thirty yards to actually think a bit about what you're

897
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: doing and was that relevant to what you and your

898
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: coach have been working on. You're allowed to have some

899
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: swing thoughts and review what you just did. Then it's

900
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: literally glove off when that glove comes off metaphorically or physically.

901
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: It's now, let's talk about the trip to Thailand, the restaurant,

902
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: the you know, the latest video, you movie, you've seen whatever, right,

903
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: So you know, be courageous enough now use that word

904
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: courageous enough to switch off. Our anxious brain doesn't want

905
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: to stop thinking. Think back to when you're in high

906
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: school or college and you hadn't studied for that exam.

907
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: If you you know, like a lot of people, and

908
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: you're doing that cram session, right, you're sitting out the

909
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: front of the lecture hall about to go in, and

910
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: what you're doing is just looping it in your head.

911
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: You know, you're not properssed, right, and so you don't

912
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: want to forget it. So you're having to keep looping,

913
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: keep looping, keep looping through your anxiety. So that's what

914
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: we do when we're on the golf course. If we're anxious,

915
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: we think that if I switch off, I'm gonna disconnect

916
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 2: from my golf swing. I'm gonna you know, and it's

917
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: just a lie. It's just anxiety talking, right, It's trying

918
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: to trap you. So it takes courage to actually say

919
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: walk off the tea box glove off, and now let's

920
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: talk a bit about the Netflix series I've been watching

921
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 2: or what have you, and allow myself to disconnect from whatever.

922
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: And then okay, now we're forty yards out. Hey, let's

923
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 2: talk a bit about the wind. Let's talk a bit

924
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: about what is switching back on as you're getting into

925
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: the ball and solving the puzzle. So now the other

926
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: one is learning to reset and connect to something in

927
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: the present, which is what I loved.

928
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: You said that you should feel like Cam does.

929
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, well he just does whatever. Yeah he does,

930
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: he does do it. Well. Now there's some simple, low

931
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: hanging fruit, right Like, it's mindfulness. It's about bringing your

932
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: attention into the present and being connected to whatever that is.

933
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 2: So it's not about calming down, it's about being in

934
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: the present. There's a big difference people think calming down,

935
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 2: breathe in, breathe out, calm down, get rid of the nerves.

936
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: If I'm breathing in and trying to get rid of

937
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 2: my nerves, what am I then saying about nerves. I'm

938
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: saying they're bad. I'm saying I need to get rid

939
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: of them, which will work as I walk off the

940
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: t box. But then when there's three holes to play,

941
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: and I'm doing that breath work and I can't get

942
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 2: rid of the nerves. What now happens to my focus?

943
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get rid of them. I'm trying to

944
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: get rid of them. I'm trying to get rid of them.

945
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 2: Now I'm having that metacognitive worry. I've lost my focus. So, really,

946
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: big little hack for golfers out there, don't try to

947
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: breathe away your nerves because you're feeding a story that

948
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: nerves are bad. Rather breathe to pay attention. So you

949
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: might breathe in for four seconds, hold for seven seconds,

950
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: breathe out for eight. It's really hard breath to do

951
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: as you're walking into three four, hold for seven, out

952
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 2: for eight. So why do I give somebody a really

953
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: hard breath cycle to do?

954
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: It?

955
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: Hijacks their attention.

956
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: It's horrid, it's hard. It's a task.

957
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 2: They don't have to succeed. Yeah, they can be God, Yeah, Jonah,

958
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: that was d I couldn't go hey, so what were

959
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: you doing for three or four breath cycles? I was

960
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 2: just getting annoyed at you because I was. And then

961
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 2: I was focusing on the breath even more because I

962
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: really wanted to do it, and okay, what weren't you

963
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: thinking about? Ah, the fact that I pushed that shot

964
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 2: a little bit right. Okay, so you know, have a

965
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 2: sip of your drink bottle, but don't just drink water,

966
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: feel the cold water go down your throat until you

967
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: lose where it's gone. To have another sip and see

968
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: if you can track it a bit further. They're just

969
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,479
Speaker 2: little simple hacks of bringing your attention to something else, which, yeah,

970
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 2: my drivers will do that in a race car. It's

971
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: more like one point four seconds as altho they got

972
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: down the back straight when they're doing three nd and

973
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: seventy columbs it out, it seems like, but you know

974
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: that is their time is to disconnect and just being

975
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: to the present before they go into APEX one. But

976
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, golf gives you plenty of time for that.

977
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: So instead of going, oh, golf so hard, because you

978
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: can get really caught up in overthinking, well only if

979
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: you choose to. You can also choose to have some

980
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: really great conversations with your caddy or your golf partners

981
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: and well daydream and fantasize about something cool that you're

982
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: interested in it, right, Like you can be choiceful where

983
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: you bring your attention to it.

984
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: We saw my dad was working with the Greg Norman

985
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: when he had the epic collapse at the at the Masters,

986
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: and Greg was always big into visualization, and I think

987
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: that was something that was a massive strength for Greg.

988
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: You would track his eyes the way you would see it,

989
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: and he didn't. He always said that he didn't. He

990
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger until he had visualized the shot.

991
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: And you talking about that on Sunday that day when

992
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: everything was unraveling, he was taking massive amount of time

993
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: and afterwards he told my dad, I couldn't see the shot.

994
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: I kept going to visualizing what the shot was, which

995
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: had served him well so long and so many times

996
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: in his career, and he just was standing there kind

997
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 1: of hitting control all reset delete. He couldn't see a shot.

998
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: And that goes to what you said, you're trying to

999
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: breathe it away and you're actually making it worse.

1000
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, So we know that visualization is very good

1001
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: for modal learning. It's not good for recreating performance states

1002
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: because it never matches reality. So you know, lots of

1003
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 2: countries have tried it. You know, the Chinese try to

1004
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: the Olympics and others have tried to recreate. What we

1005
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: learn is if we do visualization to make it really,

1006
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 2: really sensory and real, it never matches reality. And then

1007
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: you have that juxtaposition of oh, hang on, this isn't

1008
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 2: what I've prepared for. Whereas if you're just doing a

1009
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: swing thought and visualizing it, that is really good for

1010
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 2: motor development. So visualization is great for connecting to swing

1011
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: patterns and embedding modor learning. It's not good for recreating

1012
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: what it's like to walk down the final fair way

1013
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 2: at the Masters or something, because you won't ever and

1014
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: you don't need to. You don't need to recreate that.

1015
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, if I'm getting tangled in my nerves and

1016
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: I don't like them, and I'm trying to get rid

1017
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: of them and I'm failing at getting rid of them,

1018
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: then you won't be able to visualize because your prefrontal

1019
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: frontal cortex is completely hijacked by all that metacognitive worrying. Yeah.

1020
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: Lastly, one of the metaphors and one of the cliches

1021
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: of golf is the longest walk in golf is from

1022
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: the driving range to the first t What do you

1023
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: see is the disconnect between what players are doing in

1024
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: practice which they can perform in practice, and then the

1025
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: shift and the change because I have so many players say, listen,

1026
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: my range sessions are great, I hit it great on

1027
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: the range, and then when I go play it feels

1028
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: like something. I have my own thoughts and but I'd

1029
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: love to get your input on what you think is

1030
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: the difference in how players can access what they do

1031
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: in practice on the golf course when the game has

1032
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: been played.

1033
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure. Two things to that question. One is we

1034
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: know that that term the warp from the driving range

1035
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 2: to the first t that's more about anticipatory anxiety. So

1036
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: we know that the spiciest or the most challenging anxiety,

1037
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: he is the anticipatory anxiety, and once you actually start playing,

1038
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: it normally abates a little bit, right. So that's just

1039
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: that you know, the build up of uncertainty of how

1040
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 2: we're going to play. But to your question, really around

1041
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: the transfer and it's I see.

1042
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: I had never heard that term, by the way, until

1043
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: doctor Gregor Is from TPI. We were talking about a

1044
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: player that was great on the range stuff, and he's like,

1045
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: it's not a technique issue, it's a transfer problem. You're

1046
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: trying to transfer what there was a girl I taught

1047
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: a junior. She played a practice round a big tournament

1048
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: down in Florida, you know, decent player, and she shot

1049
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: you know, one two over in the practice round, and

1050
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: then in the tournament shot almost ninety and the parent

1051
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: said she needs more practice. I'm like, if she needed

1052
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: more practice, she shoot ninety in the practice correct?

1053
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Correct? So what do I see as a you know,

1054
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 2: like you said, as an external person. I mean, I've

1055
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: worked in pro golf eighteen years, but I'm still not

1056
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 2: a golf person. I'm a sports psychologist generalist. There is

1057
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 2: that when a lot of my clients early on are

1058
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: on the range, I see them very internally focused, and

1059
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 2: even their coach might even be promoting that inadvertently. So

1060
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 2: swing thoughts and queueing and using aids and all those

1061
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: things which are very good at the right time, but

1062
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: they're they're still taking your client to an intrinsic place

1063
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: of focus. And then they walk onto the golf course

1064
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 2: and where do they focus out there? They're seeing a

1065
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: narrow target, they're seeing a flight of shape, they're they're

1066
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 2: seeing all the problems, and they're seeing threat threat, threat, threat,

1067
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: you know, and they're not you know, where they were

1068
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: on the range. So do I think we need to well,

1069
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 2: you need to align it. Some people are going to

1070
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: be more intrinsic golfers. We know that some people are

1071
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: very extrinsic, and that's and both can be very very good.

1072
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: So there's no real right or wrong per se. But

1073
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: typically in the game of golf, you're still got to

1074
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 2: be out there solving that problem. So I think it's

1075
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: more about actually how we do train on the rain

1076
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: and making sure it's matching golf. Otherwise I see quite

1077
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: a difference between the two. Like when I see a

1078
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: bucket of balls, I say, no, there's sixty shots in there.

1079
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: Don't see that as sixty balls. There's sixty shots, and

1080
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 2: let's make sure every single, every single one of those

1081
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 2: balls is a shot. Therefore it must have a target,

1082
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: must have a flop, you know, must have intent on

1083
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 2: what you're to correct, and therefore my swing thought needs

1084
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: to reflect hitting that shot, which then means when I

1085
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: then walk on to the first tee, I'm replicating the

1086
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: same cognitive sort of systems and processes in terms of

1087
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: what am I focusing on and what am I thinking of?

1088
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: So that's the word cognition. And cognition means what am

1089
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: I focusing on and what am I thinking? And my

1090
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: job is to make sure that it's relatively aligned. Now

1091
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,280
Speaker 2: there's a time and a place to go really intrinsic

1092
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: and get some technical work done. But then it's like,

1093
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 2: now let's bring the golfer back out into normality of

1094
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 2: what they have to do on the golf course.

1095
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 1: And I always say to players, I think so much

1096
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: of golf. People think they can prayctice away all the issues.

1097
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: And I always say to players, listen, it's a game.

1098
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: That's why they give you a scorecard and they tell

1099
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: you what the rules of the game are. It's not gymnastics,

1100
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: not figure skating. It's not dressage to where there is

1101
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: a sequence of motions and you get extra points for

1102
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: trying something. You know, figure skating, it's all subjective. Golf

1103
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: isn't subjective, right, And I think we practice it as

1104
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: if it's set in stone that it is repetition. And

1105
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: golf is one hundred percent random, right, The entire sport

1106
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: is random, but people practice it in a way I

1107
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: think that is it's almost backwards.

1108
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 2: It kills me, It kills me, which is back to

1109
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: that metaphor, you know, how can you survive in the

1110
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: jungle if you trained in the zoo. And I look

1111
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: and I see a whole bunch of people sitting on

1112
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: firstly flat around ye perfect tea box grass wanting perfect.

1113
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: And prux grass.

1114
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: And then I look at the statistics and I say,

1115
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: I wonder how many shots today cam is going to

1116
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: have where the ball is in a neutral position, you know,

1117
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: on a flat fairway with perfect grain in like that

1118
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 2: I mean, and I mean that seriously, like, actually, reverse engineer,

1119
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: how many shots of golf is the ball and you

1120
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 2: on flat level ground? Firstly, like, I don't know the

1121
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: golf exp not me, but I assume there wouldn't be many,

1122
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 2: Like I don't, like, it's only a handful, right, Normally

1123
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 2: there's some slope side slope, down slope, up slope, you know,

1124
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: fairways and red even if they're really good, they're still

1125
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: going to have a fair few out rough like And

1126
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 2: yet I look at the how many reps reflect that? Now,

1127
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: as an outside looking at that sport, I go, Every

1128
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: other sport in the world generally trains for the reality

1129
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 2: of tournament play. Golf does it pretty poorly?

1130
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I always think as instructors. Historically, we

1131
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: teach potting backwards. We teach technique first, right, and it's

1132
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: all technique from three to five feet, and you do

1133
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: kind of some cursor y long putts to get the

1134
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: speed of the greens, all those bullshit cliches. Yeah, and

1135
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: the last one get the speed of the greens. Most

1136
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: people will go out and have thirty three potts, they'll

1137
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: put poorly, they'll three put a lot from long distance.

1138
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: And what do they do? They immediately go back to

1139
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: stroke mechanics from three feet, whereas they don't. I've actually

1140
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: started with beginning golfers and not super great putters. Hey,

1141
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: let's put thirty footers, wait, twenty five footers, forty footers,

1142
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: and work backwards. Start there, then work the mechanics. And

1143
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: if you're missing the ball from thirty feet and the

1144
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: ball's going you're aiming at a target and you're slicing

1145
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: it with a putter because you have no face control

1146
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: or no ability to control the strike. Yeah, then we

1147
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: get over and we work on some basic stroke mechanics

1148
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: of putting.

1149
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: Work cam and I focus intimately on speed, only on

1150
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: speed basically.

1151
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: And told me once if your pots always have the

1152
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: right speed, how far away from the hall or is

1153
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: the ball ever really going to be?

1154
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: And I love what you said. I'm huge on waking

1155
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: the brain up with long lag puts. Give it long

1156
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 2: distance and be wrong. That's okay, that's waking your brain

1157
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: up to the speed of the green. But if you're

1158
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 2: hitting a three footer, two things go wrong. One is

1159
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 2: if you're putting out a hole. What happens with most

1160
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: of those three foot puts They go in right, but

1161
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,439
Speaker 2: you can hit that with easily a thirty to forty

1162
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 2: percent variants in speed, but your brain isn't picking up

1163
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 2: on that. It's just seeing it go in for a

1164
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: short distance. So you think you're putting well, and I'm

1165
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: watching going, oh, my goodness, you're putting horrendously because you

1166
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: haven't woken up your speed yet. And then they go

1167
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: come off around and go, oh, my speed was really

1168
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: off to date, And I'm like, I saw your warm

1169
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 2: up putting routine and you didn't actually register speed. So yeah,

1170
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: elongate long parts, lag parts duel that get your speed

1171
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: tuned in. Then if path needs sorting all that stuff,

1172
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: and then do your shorter stuff, because then you should

1173
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 2: be seeing it going actually like discs and things because

1174
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 2: it tells you, you know, you blast it through that

1175
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: disc on the grain and you oh wow, I had

1176
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: I have it that too far. So I'm very cautious

1177
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: of golfers using short parts apt holes early on in

1178
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 2: their warm up because I think you can trick your

1179
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 2: brain doing.

1180
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: A fantastic I mean, I've done a lot of podcasts,

1181
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, over the last two years, and I've got

1182
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: to say that this is probably one that I've enjoyed

1183
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: the most, just getting to pick your brain. And you know,

1184
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: I had a Grant on the podcast recently and you

1185
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: can see the way that he thinks about the work

1186
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: that you guys do with Cam is very similar to

1187
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: the way you talk. So hopefully we're going to be back.

1188
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I know we are next year, are going

1189
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: to be back down in the Australia and I have

1190
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: one will get you back on. Thank you so so

1191
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: much for talking to me.

1192
01:01:58,440 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: Thanks your tom mate, appreciate it.

1193
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: So that was Joana Oliver and he is definitely someone

1194
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: whose brain I'm going to pick every chance I get

1195
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: an opportunity, because I got a lot out of that

1196
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: and hopefully you did as well, because he has some

1197
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: fantastic stuff and I don't think it's a shock as

1198
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: to why the working in grant Field have done with

1199
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: cam Smith have turned him into one of the best

1200
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: players in the game of golf today. It is Major

1201
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: championship week the PGA Okill Country Club. It's a cool

1202
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: place for me to come back to you every year.

1203
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: My uncle was the head pro, my uncle Craig, he

1204
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: was the head pro here for over forty years. And

1205
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: I think the first time I came here, I want

1206
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: to say it was the eighty nine US Open that

1207
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: Curtis Strange won. He won back to back US Opens

1208
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: in eighty eight he won at the country Club and

1209
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: then came to Okill and won his second. US Open.

1210
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: Is a big, big boy golf course. It is a

1211
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: hard golf course. It's a major championship golf course. The

1212
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: rough is up. They've done a redesign of the golf course,

1213
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: but there are just you cannot fake it around here.

1214
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: You have to stand up, you have to hit good

1215
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: golf shots. If the wind blows for four days, nobody's

1216
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: gonna break part. That's how hard this golf course is.

1217
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of the winning score to

1218
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: be dependent on the weather, the rough is brutal. You

1219
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: have to drive the golf ball in play, and I

1220
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: think if you win here on Sunday and you lift

1221
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: that big giant trophy up, you're going to have played

1222
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: some fantastic golf because there's just no way to fake

1223
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 1: it around o'kill. It's iconic. It's one of the major

1224
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: championship golf courses. They've been US Opens here, there've been

1225
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: PGA's here, there've been Usam's here, There've been Ryder Cups here.

1226
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: So you will get this week what everyone expects from

1227
01:03:58,960 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: a major championship.

1228
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 2: Hard.

1229
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: It will be a true test, and I think we

1230
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: are going to get a fantastic winner. I'm looking forward

1231
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,919
Speaker 1: to it. Second major of the year. Let's get it going.

1232
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: Son of a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. I

1233
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 1: want to thank everyone for listening, Rate Review, subscribe to

1234
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We will see you next week.