1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noman. They called 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined with our guest producer Max, 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: the mercenary Williams. Most importantly, you are you. You are 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: here and that makes this the stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: you to know important. Shout out because we like to 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: be people of our word. Here on stuff they don't 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. Doug Doug from Instagram. Matt Doug 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: from Instagram told me about the drug dub fish. Thanks 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: so much, Doug. We want to make sure you get 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: your do uh. Today's episode is not about drug dub fish. 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: It's about war. You've heard of it before. You might 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: like its earlier work. History books generally like to simplify conflicts. 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: People like their stories to delineate a clear good or 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: bad side, to find a moral high ground, and it 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: makes for a compelling narrative in the classroom. It will 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: help you get an A on the test. But war 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: is as much a function of business as it is 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: of ideology, and since the dawn of conflict as an industry, 23 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: some folks have been willing to wage war on behalf 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: of anyone with the coin to pay for blood. Uh. 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: The general term changes over time. Right now, you hear 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: a lot of these groups called private military contractors. Back 27 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: in the day, they were called mercenaries. And Uh, today's 28 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: question is one that we've molled over for some time. 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: Is it true that Russia has a shadow army? Here 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: are the facts. We have to start with this. What 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: is the Wagner Group? M sounds outaway, that's for sure. Officially, 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: the Wagner Group isn't a thing. Um. It's been described 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: as a para military organization, private military company, a collection 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: of mercenaries. Vladimir Putin is often mentioned in the same 35 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: breath as the Wagner Group, specifically um attributing them to 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: being his like personal army. That's kind of spooky. Yeah, 37 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of information you can find about this 38 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: group online. A lot of it is not that trustworthy. 39 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: Not sure where that information came from. You will see 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: rumors abounding about this place. There is one story that 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: I've seen in several places that claim. The origins of 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: this group find themselves with a single person named Dimitri 43 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: Utkin or that's how I say it. I think it's 44 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: what is his middle name, V? I just say Dmitri 45 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: v can Uh. Yeah, there you go. Uh. This guy 46 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: was a veteran who, like a lot of veterans here 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: in the United States, saw opportunity monetary opportunity after leaving service. 48 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: Except Dmitri in this case was he saw I think 49 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: he was in the Chechen Wars? Is that correct? Yeah? 50 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: And the first and second Chechen Wars. Uh Uken is 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: an old school vet. He served as a lieutenant colonel 52 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: in Special Forces, uh well, basically in Russia's Intelligence Directorate, 53 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: which is abbreviated to g r U. So he's kind 54 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: of spooky in the tradecraft sense. As the story goes, 55 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: and it is a story that has some holes in it, 56 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: Ukan went private after his time in the service. We've 57 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: got a lot of veterans in the audience today from 58 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: the US military branches as well as other countries militaries. 59 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: And you know, if you've if you've ever served, you 60 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: know that it's not common for people to finish their 61 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: time with a government military and then to go into 62 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: the private sector leveraging their skills. You know, whether that 63 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: whether you are a whiz at satellite communications or whether 64 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: you say, hey, I've got military experience and I will 65 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: drive a truck in a dangerous part of the world 66 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: as part of a supply chain, or even like cybersecurity. 67 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: It's just it's common across the board. Yeah, very much so, 68 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: and not inherently sinister. Uh. This guy, as soon as 69 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: he gets out, he joins an outfit called the More 70 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: in Security Group. In this group is made up of 71 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: Russian veterans, former military and from what we could see, 72 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: one of their primary stated goals is to focus on 73 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: fighting piracy. Not copyright piracy. Don't worry mourns, not gonna 74 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: bust down your door for trying to download the newest 75 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: Thor movie or something. And we mean like actual, let's 76 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: robbed the boat. I am the captain now pirates. And 77 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: then out of this group, where at least the leadership 78 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: of this group, there's another. There's another group that was 79 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: created called the Slavonic Core c O RPS, and that 80 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 1: was based out of Hong Kong is specifically to protect 81 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: oil interests in Syria. We're gonna get into it. But 82 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: where this group and the like subgroups, the ones that 83 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: formed into it and formed out of it, they operate 84 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: across the planet has been stated there in the in 85 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: the beginning, very similarly to the Constellis Constellis. I don't 86 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: know how to say it correctly. The huge umbrella group 87 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: that now owns Academy that used to be excused used 88 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: to be black Water. They just differ higher, right, I mean, 89 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: it's it's not that they're just protecting Russian and you 90 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: know interests. Correct well in this case though, I'm sorry 91 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: I kind of muddled the thinking there. But in this case, 92 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: there is a specific group called the Slavonic Cores that 93 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: was based in Hong Kong, and it was specifically to 94 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: protect oil insterests. Yeah. Yeah, and they they got a 95 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: little bit out of their remit. It's important to note 96 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: that Russia currently, as we record, has some pretty explicit 97 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: laws about mercenaries. It's illegal. Uh. And interestingly enough, the 98 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: government of Russia arrested some members of the Slavonic Corps 99 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: after some disastrous events in Syria. Most people I haven't 100 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: heard of Wagner until quite recently. In the United States. 101 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: If you look at your news feeds of choice whatever 102 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: they are. Odds are you will find some reports from 103 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: twenty two due to their current activity in Ukraine, but 104 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: they really come to prominence during the Dawn Boss War 105 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: in you know, this results in the annexation of crimea. 106 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: Utkin was active in this since its inception. Where does 107 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: the name Wagner come from? Well, opinions differ. Shout out 108 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: Foreign Policy Magazine, who said the origins were unknown, and 109 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: shout out to multiple other news sources who say the 110 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: name derives from Ukin's call sign is nom de good 111 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: his war name uh, And that's the story we'll get 112 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: to in a second. But his his street name in 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: times of war was Wagner. Interestingly enough, to your point 114 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: about things being murky, Matt Ukin may not be the 115 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: actual final level boss. Uh. That honor may go to 116 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: a guy named you've gegny Preculsion. Uh. The guy who 117 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: kitchen not is sometimes referred to as Putin's chef. Yeah, 118 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: and he's referred to as that because he he owns 119 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: and operates well, he at least owns let's say, a 120 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: ton of food service industry companies, and he specifically did 121 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: stuff for the Kremlin and like made food happen at 122 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: big gatherings for the state. It's really he's the dude, 123 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: has a fascinating story, but also like you know, he 124 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: likes to chef up some carnage. Yeah. Well, but he's 125 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: not just in He's not just in food either. He's 126 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: in all kinds of pursuits, specifically mining, big minor. Yeah, yeah, 127 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: he is in mining. He is also uh, he's very 128 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: close confidante of Putin. He's in Putin's inner circle. And 129 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: that's how you know, that's how these sorts of dictators work. Uh. 130 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: He in addition to being apparently a just topnot chef 131 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: or caterer, uh, he controls a network of companies, including 132 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: Wagner and will see why this is important. Why why 133 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: we're telling you that the story is somewhat unclear at times? 134 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: What does Wagner do? Well, here's the thing. Whomever really 135 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: runs the show, you can find them in multiple geopolitical 136 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: conflicts where Russia has skin in the game or has 137 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: some sort of goal. We're talking Syria, Libya, the Central 138 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: African Republic, on and on. There are more than that 139 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: in each conflicts. Despite not officially existing as an all 140 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: set and despite being thought of as a mercenary group. 141 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: As you know, the United Nations has to find mercenaries. 142 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: Despite all that they appear to be fighting to further 143 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: Russian goals in every single conflict. So it's not it's 144 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: not the highest bidder situation, oh no. And it's often 145 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: that they at least officially are active in those areas 146 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: to provide quote security, security for operations and the some 147 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: of the things we saw where they're cited are those 148 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: specific mining operations where they're basically bodyguards for people who 149 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: are working, the minds and staff, as well as protecting 150 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: the actual physical facilities like the guards stationed outside or 151 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: at the gates, right and um. You know, again, as 152 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: we go through this, we want all our fellow conspiracy 153 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: realists to understand that a lot of a lot of 154 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: criticism leveled at this practice. It could be a glasshouse, 155 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: don't throw stones situations. Sadly, you'll see what we mean momentarily. 156 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: But in addition to those countries they just named, Wagner 157 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: operatives have also been in Sudan and Mali and Mozambique 158 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: and they're they're essentially they're exercising Russian influence via proxy. 159 00:10:54,559 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: Similar in some ways to the CIA method of propping 160 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: up freedom fighters, right. That will that'll upon you know, 161 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: if they do a successful coup, then they'll install a 162 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: more pro us regime. That's kind of what Wagner is doing. 163 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: But they're all about the resources to your point, Matt, 164 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: casing oil, gas fields, securing other things for resource extraction. Uh, 165 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: they've been acting more and more like Western military contractors. 166 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: They're evolving as we record. Well. Yeah, they also have 167 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: a whole division that focuses on cyber attacks cyber warfare. Yeah. Yeah, 168 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: But so the big question is, like, look, go back. 169 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: If you're already pausing and saying, why aren't they talking 170 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: about Blackwater and all that stuff? Go back listen to 171 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,359 Speaker 1: our episodes on private armies. We we covered that pretty extensively. 172 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: It's worth your time. And that is like the glasshouse thing, 173 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: like we are aware of that. We're talking specifically about 174 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: this Wagner group, which is w A G N E R. 175 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: By the way, if you haven't read the title of 176 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: this yet, just go back and listen to those. Let's 177 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: let's stick with this one though, because the big question 178 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: that we posed in those episodes as well is are 179 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: these actually mercenaries? When they're acting like this, this kind 180 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: of private army or are they really just some kind 181 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: of secret arm of the military that that they're fighting 182 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: for or with or maybe perhaps on their behalf mercenary 183 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: or army, And why does it matter? Yeah, so there's 184 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: so there are these things called the Geneva Conventions. They're 185 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: not as cool as other conventions you may have attended 186 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: in the past for anime or you know, dragon Cot 187 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: or something. Um no, no, no cosplay at the Geneva Conventions, 188 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: very little cosplay. And the Geneva Conventions are a series 189 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: of international agreements about how war should be conducted, how 190 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: combatants should be treated, and what makes one a combatant. 191 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: In ninety seven, an amendment to the original Geneva mentions 192 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: came out and said, Okay, we're going to define mercenary 193 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: because you guys are getting kind of wild with it. 194 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: So they they listed off six things. We can kind 195 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: of round robin these, but for them, uh, for Geneva Conventions, 196 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: a mercenary has to meet all six of these qualities. 197 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: Number one, they have to be especially recruited locally or 198 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: abroad in order to fight in some armed conflict. Also, uh, 199 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: they do in fact needs to take part directly in 200 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: these hostilities. Three is motivated to take part in the 201 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain getting paid 202 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: what's up and in fact is promised by or on 203 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: behalf of one of the parties in the conflicts to 204 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: get some kind of material compensation that is in excess 205 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: of what's promised or paid to combatants, like regular combatants, 206 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: let's say in a military. Uh So basically you're better 207 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: paid than the military. That's what number three is, right, 208 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: And additionally, number four, you are neither a national of 209 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: a party involved in the conflict, nor are you a 210 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: resident of territory controlled by a party to conflict. So 211 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: you are like if there's yes, so like just a 212 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: tease that out mercenaries. Uh in Ethiopia, in a in 213 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: a conflict in Ethiopia, they may be proxies of maybe 214 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: a private corporation or proxies of We're not saying anything 215 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: bad here, this is entirely hypothetical, or like they might 216 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: be proxies of the Italian government, right, but they themselves 217 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: are not Italian, they're not Ethiopian, they're not from that 218 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: part of the world. Uh, They're they're because they're paid 219 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: to get stuff done. Also, they are not members of 220 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: the armed forces of a party to the conflict. Yeah, 221 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: so they're just not active military for one of the 222 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: sides fighting essentially. And number six finally has not been 223 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: sent by a state which is not a party to 224 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: the conflict on official duty as a member of its 225 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: armed forces. Well, it's been you want to wrap that 226 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: into your example there, It's just it's it's like, you know, 227 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: if you have a really important package that you're mailing, 228 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: you put all the foam you can in it, you 229 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: tape it up as tight as you can. That's what 230 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: they're doing. They're trying to legally tape up the definition 231 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: of mercenary and get it all buttoned down, because if 232 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: a if an individual meets all of these criteria, they're 233 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: not considered a legal combatant. They're not considered a prisoner 234 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: of war if captured. If this is where it becomes 235 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: really important. So if they are not those combatants, their 236 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: subject to regular criminal trials, and if they're found to 237 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: be a mercenary, then they don't get some of the 238 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: same considerations that a member of the Middle here we get. 239 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: They're treated as a common criminal, and you can find 240 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: examples of this fairly recently. That's where they say, well, 241 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, again, the definition of a state is the 242 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: state has monopoly on violence. You're just somebody who got 243 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: paid to kill people and burn things, right, that's the 244 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: hyperbolic example. So you might get executed because you killed someone, 245 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: which is a crime. Uh. And they also, because they 246 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: don't count as POWs, they can't necessarily expect repatriation at 247 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: the conclusion of a conflict, meaning they won't ship you 248 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: won't be shipped back to your country of origin. But 249 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: so that's mercenary. That's sticky, and you would think, okay, well, 250 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: based on this definition, I take it the international community 251 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: is generally speaking against this stuff. But here's the thing. 252 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: Multiple observers when they think of mercenaries, they don't think Wagner, 253 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: the Wagner Group is is really a bunch of mercenaries. Instead, 254 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be a hidden hand of Vladimir Putin 255 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: doing all the dirty things, all the wet work that 256 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: the official military won't touch. And that work gets very 257 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: very filthy, very very quickly. What are we talking about. 258 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after we'd from our sponsors. Here's where 259 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: it gets crazy, oh man. Just from that list guys 260 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: of what makes a mercenary, at least according to the 261 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: Geneva Conventions Amendment, it doesn't sound to me like Wagner 262 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: group would be mercenaries. It also doesn't sound like even 263 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: you know, the US versions of these private armies that 264 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: we've spoken about, they wouldn't fit either because they're their 265 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: nationals right of a country that's attempting to exert force, 266 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 1: unless they're being paid by a third party to go 267 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: to a fourth country. Weird. Yeah, But like, isn't this 268 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: just kind of like a classic like loophole kind of 269 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: like exploitation a little bit. I mean, I don't know, 270 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: not that anyone necessarily is particularly concerned in these situations 271 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: about you know, adhering to the letter of the Geneva 272 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: Convention per se, But I don't know. I've always wondered 273 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: how things like Blackwater could be considered legal. I mean, 274 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: it seems that they're if what are they if not 275 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: mercenaries for higher Yeah, but that's just like a buzz term. 276 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: That's like, you know, it's calling something else by another 277 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: another word. It's it's just war crime and war steps, right, 278 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's it's a good point. These are 279 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: good points you guys are bringing up because the group 280 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: itself is not registered as a legal entity anywhere in 281 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: the world. A lot of US based private security companies are, 282 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: which does sound like maybe a little bit of a 283 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: hair splitting difference. But there's more to this than just paperwork, 284 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: because again, mercenaries are illegal under Russian law. These pmc 285 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: s private military contractors or companies. Their shadowy existence gives 286 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: Russia some pretty important practical and propagandistic capabilities. One, Russia 287 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: can downplay it's battlefield casualties. The death tolls aren't as 288 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: high if a lot of the people die, and we're 289 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: not part of the military but part of Wagner Group. Secondly, 290 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: it gives you, It gives you some distance, and governments 291 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: love doing this. Okay again, many governments love doing this. 292 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: It gives you an ability to say, well, those folks 293 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: may may have done some stuff that is objectionable, but 294 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: we didn't tell them to. You have to understand they're 295 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: just private contractors hired through you know, a seri reas 296 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: of Matroshkadal shell companies. Uh So we are as surprised 297 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: about these atrocities as you are and as pearls. Yeah, 298 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: we're clutching our pearls. We're we're mad too. Yeah, it's 299 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: the old bad apple simplicity that you get there, right, 300 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: that's not those bad apples. We got a rid this 301 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: conflict of those apples and then we'll be good. And 302 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: it's not like there's a you know, I mean, we 303 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: know that these folks are often used to carry out assassinations, 304 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: and it's not like you're gonna leave a paper trail 305 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: that indicates who you're asking them to target. You could 306 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: just make the argument that they, you know, did it 307 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: of their own accord and they got over zealous or 308 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: something like that. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, it makes 309 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: me think of the wiki leaks, videos and atrocities that 310 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: were exposed by them from from Blackwater specifically, just the 311 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: same kind of stuff. Oh and just a soft note 312 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: there in case we don't talk about it in an 313 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: extrange news segment, Assange is going to be extradited to 314 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: the United States. The word came through he is going 315 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: to be under the prison, just to be clear, uh, 316 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: And we'll we'll update with that as more comes. So 317 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: at this point, let's introduce Swortia McLeod, who is the 318 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: chair of the United Nations Working Group on the Use 319 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: of Mercenaries. Meaning this person studies all mercenaries for their job, 320 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: and they've looked at Wagner Group, this U n working organization. 321 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: They've looked at this group in depth for some time. 322 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: And McLeod sums up the advantages of having a personal army, 323 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: one that is bound to a single powerful individual, rather 324 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: than being bound to any sort of constitution or checks 325 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: and balances, which militaries in theory always are. But let's 326 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: let's rule out this quotation. I think it sums it 327 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: up explicitly and concisely. Oh man, it sure does so 328 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: a lot of what we've already been saying. But according 329 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 1: to McLeod, again expert on the subject, she believes that 330 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: the Wagner Group operates in a situation quote situation of opacity, 331 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: that there's a real lack of transparency. Uh, And that's 332 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: the whole point to create distance between the Russian state 333 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: and the group, to create this plausible deniability, right. Um. Yeah, 334 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: Basically it's sort of like having a black ops, right, 335 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: Like a black ops is almost like a version of this, 336 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: that is, technically, you know, legitimately exists within the unit 337 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: United States military, but you usually send them on some 338 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: sort of insane suicide mission or something that would be 339 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: outside of the uh you know, legal structure of military operations, 340 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: and then you're able to disavow them m hm when 341 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: things go south or they get you know, they get 342 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: they get caught blogged again. Never heard of you talking 343 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: about the composer in the morning. Keep your Spotify to yourself. 344 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: People are dying, you know, dear, Oh dear, Yeah, I mean, 345 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: this is the last time I'm going to say it, 346 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: but it really does ring. It sounds a lot like 347 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: Mr Prince of the Eric variety and and his just 348 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: his his ever evolving group of non mercenary private army individuals. 349 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: Oh you mean Blackwater. Wait you mean ACADEMI wait, you 350 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: mean ex See Wait you mean Constellis, Constellis Wait nex Yeah, 351 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: it just goes and goes. I mean the advantages of 352 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: this arrangement, now, let me know this. They're they're clear, 353 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: they're clear, and they're concrete. But it does seem like 354 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: a contradictory thing for Russian law, a strange loophole, one 355 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: might even say a conspiracy, because again, they consider mercenary work. 356 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: Illegal on paper, but by every indication you can find, 357 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: Russia has been using this group and others like it. 358 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: Those two predecessors we named in close cooperation with the 359 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: official military, very much in the ways Pioneer just a 360 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: few years earlier by Uncle Sam in the early two 361 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: thousand's in the Wars and Rock and Afghanistan. And some 362 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: observers believe the organization itself it is totally like they say, 363 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: yes it exists, there's a reason it doesn't officially exist. 364 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: And no they're not mercenaries. No, they're not a PMC. 365 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: They're just a disguised branch of the Ministry of Defense. 366 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: And ultimately the differences they don't report to the Russian 367 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: government overall, right, they report the one guy, big daddy 368 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: p what's what's he what's you know what? He tells 369 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: him where to go, and boom, they're pooting on the rits. 370 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: Keep it, keep it not worth uh ben. No, I 371 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this, but there is a 372 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: map that shows one of at least one of the 373 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: Wagner bases, and how there's a tiny little road connecting 374 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: it to a Russian military installation that is quite large. 375 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: Just up the road a piece. Oh yeah, and that 376 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: helps us understand why people have these suspicions, why they 377 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: think there's a con job going on. Because Wagner shares 378 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: bases with the Russian military. If they're flying out somewhere 379 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: like odds are they're writing on Russian military aircraft. Uh, 380 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: they use the country's military healthcare. They get passports, right, 381 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: and uh they get dodgy passports too. If if you 382 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: need to put some scoot into your operation, let's maybe 383 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about war crimes. So Wagner gets 384 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: accused of a lot of war crimes, and honestly, tragically, 385 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of evidence to support a wide range 386 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: of these accusations. If we go to Declan Walsh, a 387 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: journalist who was writing for the New York Times back 388 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: in one just last year, Uh, he says that the 389 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: u N found Wagner quote killed civilians, looted homes, and 390 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: shot dead worshippers at a mosque during a major military 391 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: operation in the Central African Republic commonly called c a R. Uh. Yeah, 392 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: this is not counting also the many allegations of sexual 393 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: assault and torture, like you know, weaponized sexual assault, uh, 394 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: which is something we've seen reports of as a Russian tactic, 395 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: as well of of of war um, which is absolutely 396 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: a war crime, no question about it. And Declan Walsh 397 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: goes on to describe other things that have occurred, at 398 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: least by Russian troops and Allied government troops. I'm just 399 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: gonna read it. They include quote cases of excessive force, 400 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: indiscriminate killings, occupation of schools, looting on a large scale, 401 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: including um humanitarian organizations that were looted, and particularly as 402 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: I mentioned before, the mining centers. These guys have been 403 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: seen looting around major mining centers, especially in diamond rich 404 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: areas of again that same place, Central African Republic. So, like, 405 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in war, you're part of a 406 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: military force. There are certain rules of engagement, et cetera. 407 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: People die in war. It's not considered murder, you know, 408 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: But how is this not just outright murder? Yeah, well, 409 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: if they are mercenaries, it is. Uh. If they are proxies, 410 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: you can make that case, right, But if they are 411 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: actual members of the military, then they are supposed to 412 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: be functioning under the constraints of military Code of conduct 413 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: right in peace or wartime. And it appears that they 414 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: are not um it's it's strange because you know. Originally 415 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: in this story, Walsh recounts how the Kremlin did something 416 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: that the USSR and Russia now and the United States 417 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: have been doing all the time whenever they want to 418 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: express hegemonic influence. They say we're gonna send We won't 419 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: send you weapons officially, and they're like they have a 420 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: finger to their nose. It won't send your weapons, but 421 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: we'll send you some trainers to help you figure out 422 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: some stuff that we've learned, to give you some of 423 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: our expertise in the fight for the greater good. And 424 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: uh what what what turned out happened is that the 425 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: United Nations co signed this. They said, okay, send those 426 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: military trainers to help train this army in c a 427 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: r UH. And it quickly became clear that those Russian 428 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: trainers weren't just training folks that were armed mercenaries, and 429 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 1: they were there to strike pro Kribblin business deals in 430 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: the country and on the continent of Africa, because diamonds 431 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: are a Merk's best friend. So they wanted, yeah, they 432 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: wanted to give clear financial advantages and benefits and boons. 433 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: Two Russian business interests including some of the homeboys of 434 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. That's just true. That's pretty much true. But wait, 435 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: as uh they say, as Billy Mays used to say, 436 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: there's more. Don't worry. They're also killing journalists where we're 437 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: talking about. We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor, 438 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: we're back if you don't mind, guys, I'd just like 439 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: to give a quick shout out to Far Cry Too. 440 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: Very old game at this point. It was the storyline 441 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: is very, very similar to what we're describing today, and 442 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: you get to play as a mercenary kind of sort 443 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: of maybe fighting against mercenaries, I guess, but it's pretty much, uh, 444 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: the same idea, and it illustrates in a video game 445 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: everything we're talking about today. And it's disgusting but a 446 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: great game. Yeah, yeah, shout out to Far Cry. I 447 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: always wanted to get into that series. I need to 448 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: give it a shot. Yeah, yeah, it holds up. I 449 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it is inspired often by somewhat true events. 450 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: In the case of Wagner Group, they've been implicated in 451 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: the deaths of journalists like Maxim Borodin, who was a 452 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: Russian journalist who wanted to learn more about the group 453 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: and being a journalist, as you understand, is quite it's 454 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: quite a difficult job, and it can be a physically 455 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: dangerous job, especially in countries like Russia unless you're unless 456 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: you are an active asset of the current regime. Um 457 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: problem with being a uh doctor or a dissident politician 458 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: or journalist in Russia is that there are a lot 459 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: of tall buildings, there are a lot of windows, and so. 460 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: On April the twelfth um, this journalist Maxim was found 461 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: heavily injured after he fell from his fifth story balcony. 462 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: Sound familiar accidents happen right, accident, slip and knit. Uh. 463 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: So he goes into a coma as a result of 464 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: this and dies three days later. Police are investigating this death, 465 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: but they say, you know, we can just tell you 466 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: from the jump this isn't suspicious, and then someone's like 467 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: jump poor choice of words, and the guys like, I know, 468 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: I know, I just gotta work on the material whenever 469 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: I can. But this, this person did die, and they 470 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: did die in a in a circumstance that, for the 471 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: more conspiratorially minded, does indeed look suspicious, especially we consider 472 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: that other other colleagues of this guy. Particularly the chief 473 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: editor of Novi Den, Paulina Vas, said that before Bora 474 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: didn't died, she could not rule out a crime, and 475 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: she said, I can confirm there was no reason for 476 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: him to commit suicide. And she wasn't the only one 477 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: saying this was super sketchy. So Harlem Desir of the 478 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: O s c E said the death was of serious 479 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: concern and called for a thorough investigation. Um Bodin's friend 480 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: and then stated that one day before its fall, Brodin 481 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: had contacted him at five o'clock in the morning saying 482 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: that there was quote once again, someone with a weapon 483 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: on his balcony and people in camouflage and masks on 484 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: the staircase landing. That's that's not scary at all. It 485 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: sounds like a suicide to me. Yeah, right, assistant suicide 486 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: a k A. Murder. So why is you know, back 487 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: to what McLeod said, the u N expert on mercenaries 488 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: and then their designation, why are they so opaque? Why 489 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: do we not know more about them? Um? Well, despite 490 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: as we've been through, not officially being part of the 491 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: Russian military, Uh, they're essentially held to the same kinds 492 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: of standards and constraints that actual rank and file soldiers are. 493 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: That's just in theory but not necessarily in practice. So 494 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, the line, the public line is no, no, 495 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: these are these are They're operating within the same conditions 496 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: that would be you know, held to a soldier of 497 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: the Russian military, but in reality. Um and this is 498 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: from Yenni Safik is a Turkish news site quote, there 499 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: is no exact information on how Wagner is finance. Not 500 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: to mention you know where the money comes from. This 501 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: is a heavily armed group, you know, staffed by people 502 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: with intense military training and then skills. Um so a 503 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: Yenni Safik, a Turkish news site, questions this. Uh they 504 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: say there is no exact information on how Wagner is financed. However, 505 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: considering the fact that training on driving armored vehicles are 506 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: conducted daily using tens of cornet missiles, it's clear the 507 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: great financial support is essential. The Wagner affiliated military men 508 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: are paid dollars monthly during their training. They need to 509 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: pass these trainings to be able to be sent to war. 510 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: Um Moscow strictly prohibit soldiers from using social media and 511 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: speaking of the operation for at least and years and 512 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,439 Speaker 1: then I don't know if you saw that. I think 513 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: there are some videos of some of these trainings on 514 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: online they have like leaked out. Yes, yeah, that's correct. 515 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: There are also a couple of ex Wagner members who 516 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: have come forward to talk a little bit more about 517 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: the relationship. But what seems to be happening here if 518 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: you follow the money, is that so this group either 519 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: doesn't exist or it's a private security company, you know, 520 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: just just like Blackwater or whatever the name they're going by. 521 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: And uh, the idea then is that someone has to 522 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: be paying them. But if you unpeel the proxies and 523 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: the layers of the onion here, then it seems very 524 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: much that the Russian government is paying them, just in 525 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: a way that allows them that plausible deniability, that distance, 526 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: and also allows them to more directly follow the whims 527 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: of the ruling inner circle. Uh. The idea of not 528 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 1: being able to speak give an operation for at least 529 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: ten years is also a big part of why so 530 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: much of this is murky, why it's been called a 531 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: shadow army. Okay, and let's let's talk about this. So 532 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: we have a future episode coming up on pro Nazi 533 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: forces that were active in Ukraine, right, And this was 534 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: one of the primary public justifications from the Putin run 535 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: government of Russia for the invasion and the ongoing war. 536 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: They wanted to d Nazify Ukraine, that's what they said, right. 537 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: And the weird thing about this denazification is that Wagner 538 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: is active in Ukraine as we record, and Utkin was 539 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: given the call sign Wagner because of his affection for 540 00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: the quote, attributes and ideology of Adolph Hitler. Yes, that 541 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler. If there's a different Aidolf Hitler, apologies to you, man, 542 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: life's gotta be tough with that name. But this is 543 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: like the World War two Nazi leader, genocidal maniac, Adolf Hitler. 544 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: And we pulled some of this from Military Arms dot Ru, 545 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: which is where you can also see reports, but who 546 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: can in the economists in in a couple of other 547 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: Western outlets where they talk about him having multiple neo 548 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: Nazi tattoos. Also, I don't I don't think this is 549 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: reading tea leaves too much. Tell me if I'm wronging 550 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: you guys. But Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer, so it 551 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: seemed like a shout out on multiple levels. No, I 552 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: mean that's you know, Wagner is a very important composer 553 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: uh in the history of like modern music, but is 554 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: widely acknowledged as being a virulent anti Semite and uh, 555 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: you know, Wagner's music was often heard playing through loudspeakers 556 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: at the death camps as Jewish families were marched to 557 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: the gas chambers or the horrific forms of you know, 558 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: mass execution. Um, it's it's it's honestly his his uh 559 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: reputation is so Wagner's that is, is so controversial, and 560 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: yet his music is so important. Actually went to the 561 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: Jewish Museum in Berlin. There was a really fascinating exhibit 562 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: where some Jewish composers and performers were talking about how 563 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: they're able to justify playing Wagner's music, and one of 564 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: the most interesting justifications was, well, uh, the man would 565 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: probably be rolling over in his grave if he knew 566 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: that a Jewish principal violinist and conductor were you know, 567 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: at the helm of his music. M Yeah, those Nazis 568 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: are real jerks. Wow. Uh so, but out Can maybe 569 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: doesn't believe in that particular vile ideology. Maybe he's got 570 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: another thing up his sleeve or honest leave with that 571 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: is how it were. Uh, yeah, he's got the tats. 572 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: Though that's not a decision people make lightly. Yet former 573 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: members of Wagner say that you can is actually something 574 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: called a rodnova which is a practitioner of a native 575 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: Slavic belief system. Rod Novari is sometimes called neopaganism or 576 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: considered a modern pagan religion. But setting aside the whatever 577 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: personal religious beliefs, this guy Utkin, who has been the 578 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: face of this for a while, be siding aside whatever 579 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: beliefs that person may have. Various parts of Wagner have 580 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: been clearly linked to far right, neo Nazi beliefs and 581 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy. And you know, we've seen we've seen this 582 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: in U. S. Law enforcement as well. We've seen it 583 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: in factions of the military as well. We've had people 584 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: in law enforcement and in the U. S. Military right 585 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: to us and say, yeah, these clicks are rolling and 586 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: people know about him, but you can when and you 587 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: think of a plausible deniability aspect, It's interesting that Lucan 588 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: has been in photo ops with Vladimir Putin. It makes 589 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: it increasingly hard and somewhat cartoonish to deny the top 590 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: Russian leadership is somehow not involved. Oh, we just hobnobbed together. Oh, 591 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 1: my chef gives him money. I don't know what they're 592 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: up to. I thought he, you know, was delivering oranges 593 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: or something in Syria whatever. Like it's it's almost offensive 594 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: to try to maintain that sort of deception um for 595 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: what for for like a legal precedent. Uh, it's so 596 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: interested in this group. And I know that there may 597 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: have been there may be a fellow conspiracy realists in 598 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: the audience who have interacted with Wagner in some way, 599 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: depending on where you were deployed. So how is the 600 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: world responded with sanctions? Who do check out our episode 601 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: on sanctions? Do they work? Are they moral? Well? Not 602 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: too many people were worried about that when it came 603 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: to Wagner. Uh, the U. S. Tre the U. S. 604 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: Treasury Department sanctioned UH Russia and sanctioned that the so 605 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: called scheft proculsion um directly. Like as an individual, that's 606 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 1: like a dubious infamous distinction. You're pretty big time in 607 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: a bad way. If a country is like, we're gonna 608 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: sanction some groups and also this dude, that's that's it's 609 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: a bad it's a bad times, right. Yeah, that's like, 610 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: imagine what does that do for your self esteem? When 611 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: an entire country or region like the EU gets together 612 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: and countries and these organizations have a hard time agree. 613 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: They all got together and they said, you know who 614 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: sucks this guy? Like, how do you you know? Maybe 615 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm exercising too much empathy and I don't think that 616 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: guy really cares um and we haven't met him. Let 617 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: the EU and the UK joined in. They also imposed 618 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: sanctions again on this guy. Specifically, entire countries are like, 619 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: this guy is for the birds, he's the worst um 620 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: and they were related to his uh, his financing as 621 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: they see it of Wagner. In October, that's when the 622 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: EU and the UK did it. It was specifically for 623 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: activities in Libya. US Department and Treasury also in sanctioned 624 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 1: Wagner group and then sanctioned Ootkin, the guy we're talking 625 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: about earlier again specifically I I I don't know, I 626 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: don't know if that's on the bucket list of of infamy, 627 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: Like do you does anybody? Would you brag about that? 628 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: Be like, hey, this whole country means I'm blow I 629 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: would just be freaking out because somebody's freezing all the 630 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: assets that have been gathering with my all the dark status. 631 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: I mean that would be that would be upsetting. Got 632 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: I've got it, just all this cash and yachts and businesses, 633 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,280 Speaker 1: and now they're saying I can't play with my toys. 634 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm upset. Where am I gonna land my yacht? It 635 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: just got helicopters that carry the yacht around. They landed places. Yeah, 636 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: joy joy and conspiracy stuff shows yacht lands with the 637 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,919 Speaker 1: number one yacht transport. We got a don't ask, don't 638 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: tell sanctions policy. Oh boy, we got forty two. We 639 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,240 Speaker 1: got forty two giant helicopters. They'll pick up your yacht 640 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: wherever it needs to be. It'll just be dropped off. 641 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: You're gonna love it. Call now, oh man, we should 642 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: have that. Sounds like an Illumination Globe Bloodlimited commercial. But 643 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 1: I think they got smacked by sanctions for the yacht. 644 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: The yacht scamp we call it yacht sprees, and they're 645 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: just Osprey's. Wait, is that the right one? Is that 646 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: the big helicopter? What's the huge helicopter? Oh yeah, it 647 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: is Osprey's. It's a Boeing V twenty two osprey. That's 648 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. Oh the V t O L right, 649 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: vertical take off landing. Yeah, that's that's how you move 650 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,879 Speaker 1: the yacht. Uh. Side note, there have been allegations unconfirmed, 651 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: that Internet Illumination Global Unlimited is just taking the yachts. 652 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: But we can't film that, just parking them somewhere on 653 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: the Georgia coast. What Yeah, what are you gonna do 654 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: about it? Uh? Anyhow, we're making light of some of this, 655 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: but it is really important to note that these sanctions 656 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: aren't just political theater, at least in the stated opinions 657 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: of those imposing them. Instead, they say that, well, let's 658 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: stick a line from what the EU said in December 659 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: of last year, when they put further saying sas against 660 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: the Wagner Group as well as eight individuals and three 661 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: other entities connected to it. They said everyone involved was 662 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: sanctioned because of serious human rights abuses, including torture, extra judicial, 663 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: summary or arbitrary executions and killings, or in destabilizing activities 664 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: in countries they operated, including Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Dombas Regions specifically, 665 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: and Central African Republic. So what they're saying is these 666 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: folks are going in and they're doing wet work and 667 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: they're trying to design coups. This is not something nations 668 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: like to officially smile upon, but it's a true story. 669 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 1: And that's when we have to ask what happens next. 670 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: Wagner is still active, they haven't stopped, But then so 671 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: are you know, the parent companies of places like the 672 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: former operator Blackwater. So we have to ask, is the 673 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: U s and a hypocritical position here? And what does 674 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: it mean for the world if this trend of private 675 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: operators in practice not subject to the same regulations as 676 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: natural military What if this trend continues? Is it a 677 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,839 Speaker 1: good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it inevitable? 678 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. Let us know what 679 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: you think. We can't wait for your thoughts and experience. 680 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: We try to be easy to find online, boy do 681 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: we ever? You can find us on Facebook, you can 682 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,320 Speaker 1: find us on YouTube, and you can find us on 683 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: Twitter at the handle conspiracy stuff. On Instagram, we are 684 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff. Show yes, tell us about how the private 685 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 1: armies will one day be robo armies and maybe they'll 686 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: just all be artificially intelligent and fight everyone. It will 687 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: be fun times for all. Call one eight three three 688 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. It's a voicemail system. 689 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: You have three minutes. Say whatever you'd like. Please include 690 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: your nickname whatever you want that to be, and let 691 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: us know whether we can use your name and voice 692 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,080 Speaker 1: on the air to appreciate that. We can't wait to 693 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: hear from you. If you want to instead, contact us 694 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: the old fashioned way. Oh, we've got a pipeline for you. 695 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: It's ready. All you gotta do is send an email 696 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: to conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't 697 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,760 Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 698 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 699 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 700 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.