1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff production of I Heart Radio, Hey 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: brain Stuff Lauren Vocal bamb Here. Criminals come in all 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: shapes and sizes, though it may strain definition that we 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: can count as six year old throwing a temper tantrum 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: and an elementary school among them, yet welcome to America. 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: In late September nineteen, a Florida cop arrested two grade schoolers, 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: slapped a pair of handcuffs on at least one of them, 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: and sent them off to be booked, fingerprinted, and have 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: their mugshots taken. Both children, again six year olds who 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: misbehaved at school, were charged with misdemeanor battery. A bad 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: day for harried police officer, Well, yeah, maybe a bad 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: day for schools and the juvenile justice system. Absolutely. We 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: spoke with Marcia Levic, the chief legal officer for the 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: Juvenile Law Center, which bills itself as the country's first 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: nonprofit public interest law firm for children. She said, does 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: it get more ridiculous? It's absurd. It's a ridiculous abuse 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: of law enforcement power and authority. But it's also a 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: really unnecessary but all too common abdication on the part 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: of schools and school districts. And teachers to just defer 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: their management of school misconduct to police. The pure legality 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: of charging a juvenile as young as six with a 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: crime varies across the United States. To be clear, a 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: juvenile in forty five states plus the District of Columbia 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: is anyone younger than seventeen. In Georgia, Michigan, Missouri, Texas, 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: and Wisconsin, it's anyone younger than sixteen. A juvenile offender 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: normally doesn't move through the criminal courts, but through the 27 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: juvenile justice system, which is guided, according to the Office 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention quote by the concept 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: of rehabilitation through individualized justice for more serious offenses, though 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: juveniles may be tried in criminal court, where if found guilty, 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: the court focuses on punishment, not rehab. Of fifty one 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: jurisdictions that's the fifty states plus the District of Columbia, 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: the pready three have no lower level limit on holding 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: a young person criminally accountable. Levic says that includes Florida. 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: In effect, that means that an over zealous cop legally 36 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: can arrest even an unruly two year old. Of those 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: eighteen other jurisdictions, most put the lower level that a 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: kid can be charged with a crime at ten years old. 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: In those locations, a six year old like the two 40 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: in Florida simply could not be arrested or charged with 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: a crime. Levic said, Obviously, it begs the question, how 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: can that be? How can we possibly have created a 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: juvenile court system that allows for the possibility that six 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: and seven year olds can be arrested. I think they 45 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: never envisioned a six or seven year old would be 46 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: hauled into court. I think that's a fair assumption. That's 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: not who they designed the system for. So what happened 48 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: in Florida. A police officer with Orlando's Reserve Unit arrested 49 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: the two six year olds on separate misdemeanor battery charges 50 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: on September nineteen. One was a girl who lashed out 51 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: in a in term that was brought on by a 52 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: sleep disorder, the girl's family told The New York Times. 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: On Monday, September twenty three, the Orlando Police Department fired 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: the officer who made the arrests for not following protocol 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: that required he get approval from his supervisor to arrest 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: any minor younger than aged twelve. No charges were filed 57 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: against the two children. Cops in schools, of course, are 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: not new. Florida is one of many states that has 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: bumped up its police presence in schools over the years. 60 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: The Florida legislature mandated it after the shooting at Marjorie 61 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: Stone when Douglas High School in Parkland, the claimed seventeen 62 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: lives in February of The build up of police in 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: schools is understandable in some ways. It's been more than 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: twenty years since two students killed thirteen people and injured 65 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: twenty one others at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. 66 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: Since Columbine up until April of this year, America has 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: been through two hundred and thirty eight other school shootings, 68 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: according to a year long investigation by The Washington Post. 69 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: This increased show of force, though, does come with problems. 70 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: For one, as The Orlando Sentinel points out, citing a 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: report by the Education Week Resource Center, black students are 72 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: arrested at school at a disproportionately high rate. At least 73 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: one of the children arrested in Orlando was black, and 74 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: as the recent news out of Orlando shows, police and 75 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: school kids, even elementary school kids, just sometimes don't mix, 76 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: Levic said, we know where this is coming from. This 77 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: fear of what happens when a child acts out in school, 78 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: that there's going to be some catastrophic consequence emanates from Columbine. 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: For twenty years, we've been overreacting. I'm not aiming to 80 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: trivialize schools being so quick to call law enforcement. There 81 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: are obviously many situations in which that's appropriate, but this 82 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: is one that defies common sense. Most would agree that 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: slapping cuffs on first graders probably is crossing a line. 84 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: Zero tolerance certainly has its costs, Levic said. Initially, the 85 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: thought was that there would be some rationality, some reasonableness 86 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: injected into the school environment that would curb those extreme 87 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: and absurd responses. But it may be that trusting and 88 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: waiting for common sense to kick in isn't going to work. 89 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: It may be that it does require a legislative response. 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: Some movements across the nation aimed to raise the minimum 91 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: age that a child can be charged with a crime 92 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: to twelve years old. In some of those thirty three 93 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: jurisdictions where no minimum age is set, there are calls 94 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: to set something until then. Though school police officers may 95 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: have to lean on something much less complicated than legislative 96 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: action when faced with a prepubescent troublemaker, a deep breath, 97 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: maybe a countdown from ten, and a little common sense. 98 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: Today's episode was written by John Donovan and produced by 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: Tyler Clay. Brain Stuff is a production of I Heart 100 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: Radio's Has Stuff Works. For more in this and lots 101 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit our home planet, how stuff Works 102 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: dot com and for more podcasts from my heart Radio, 103 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 104 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.