WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Places You Don't Want To Go 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:17.279 Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.840 know the answer to. Hi. There, Welcome again to another 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.759 episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, joined as always 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.920 by Devon and Steve. So you guys ready to tackle 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:34.440 a really groovy mystery? Just one? Yeah, actually three? And 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.839 actually these aren't entirely mysteries. One. The theme of this 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.680 week's episode is places you don't want to go, and 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.080 I gotta say, I don't want to go to any 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.760 of these. Yeah, they're scary places. I kind of want 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.920 to go to mine because you're we Well, okay, I 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:50.360 can see why you'd want to go down, but you're 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.600 still weird, that's true. I am no, Actually I do 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.640 want to go to your place. Oh you do, not 0:00:54.800 --> 0:01:00.760 your house, but yeah, that's there. I don't really want 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:07.600 to go back, just kidding stuff. Yeah, well, okay, let's 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.240 just start talking about these unpleasant, scary places. My vote 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.640 for the place to stay away from is in a 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.000 Hottie Valley, which is in the Northwest Territories in Canada, 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.080 that is the northern part of Canada. It's just um 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.480 to the east of the Yukon Territories, which are just 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.000 to the east of Alaska. So it's well up there. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.720 It's way up there. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard estimates as 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.759 many as forty four people have known to either disappear 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.760 or diet under mysterious circumstances in this valley. Yeah that's 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.080 I mean, that's you know, it is way up in Canada. Yeah, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.760 there's bears and some people, so well, I mean, well 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.400 we'll get there. Yeah, Okay, on on with our story. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.240 When the first European trappers and gold miners began to 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.160 get into the area around the valley, they talked to 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.440 the natives quite a bit and heard a lot of 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.400 legends about it. The Indians said that they avoided traveling 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.080 there because it was inhabited by evil spirits. They also 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.400 thought that it was home to spirit creatures known as 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.519 the Wahila, which is supposed to be kind of half 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.239 wolf half bear and it sounds like a really ugly critter. Yeah, 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.000 I don't know, and that's when I would stay away from. 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.840 They also thought that the natives actually thought the Wahila 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.080 has had mystical powers like the ability to appear and 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.080 disappear it will. Yeah, that would be one scary critter. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.240 It's a pretty handy handy little power. Yeah, yeah, I know, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.240 I wish I had it. Uh. The locals also had 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.160 stories about a tribe called the Naha. They were this 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.560 fierce mountain tribe that lived in and around the valley, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.400 and they would come pouring out of the mountains occasionally 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.000 on slave rating parties on the low landers. And yet somehow, 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.440 right about the time white people arrived here a little before, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.360 even the entire tribe just disappeared. That's unusual. Well, you know, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.880 maybe they were wiped out by disease. M Well, there's 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:01.239 a lot of reasons, and I know we're going to 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:02.600 get into some of that, but there's a lot of 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.960 reasons why people would disappear. But it's just weird that 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:09.079 it it precludes the appearance of the white man. Yeah, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.400 it's just like Rono colony man, Yeah, a little bit. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.400 So anyway, it's this is either a huge historical mystery 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.800 or it's just the wilderness version of an urban legend. 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.000 I'm not sure where. So it's possible that they didn't 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.720 never exist. Yeah, I think it's there's really no evidence 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.919 that they did. No artifacts, Okay, got it. Yeah, so 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.679 who knows. But anyway, back to our story, as the 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.880 Europeans began to come into the area. They looking for 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.280 gold and furs and stuff like that. There are stories 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.240 that were spread that there was gold in the Nahanti Valley, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.000 and so that's when the troubles began. That's always when 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.240 the trouble began. You saw Treasure of the Sierra Madre 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.640 written by B Traven. Yeah, totally saw. Also, we just 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.160 talked about gold being found last week. I did Joe's 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.960 kind of thing about stories that involved gold. If I 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.000 like gold, I'm hinting I want for gold bars for 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:05.080 my birthday. Not that nice new patio out back is 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:10.760 hiding something. Okay. It was kind of a rush job though. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.280 A couple of guys were on the on the lookout 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.840 for gold nineteen o six. The place was the Honey 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.320 Valley was pretty much untouched and unexplored. But a couple 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.160 of brothers, William Frank McLeod decided they wanted to head 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.080 up to the Yukon. Willie and Frank. Yeah, William Frantiska. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:30.919 I thought you said Willie Frank as in it was 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:35.719 first in middle name. I thought, I said William Franco. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.320 So they wanted to go up to the Klondike, I guess, 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.320 and they decided to go through the valley and they 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.800 persuaded another guy named Bobby Weir to go along with them. 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.520 So they had it up the Hone River in spring 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.039 nineteen o six and they were never seen the live again. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.480 All three all three, uh the Clouds. The Club brothers 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.400 bodies were eventually found about two years later, but their 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.320 heads were gone. Yeah, they had ben decapita. I'm not 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.120 sure exactly what kind of shape their bodies were in, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.520 and some of some coupts I've heard they were just skeletons, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.320 and they should think after two years, I don't know 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.120 how much would be left. Well, that depends on when 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.920 they died. If they died as soon as they got there, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.520 then yes, two years would have gone by. Yeah, but 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.520 if they lived for a year, so there might even 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:27.159 remains other than small after a year. It's pretty cold, though, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.599 It's not as if they were in a tropical jungle 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.840 where it's nothing but bugs and other critters. Yeah, but 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.640 you've got scavengers looking for a warm, easy meal. Yeah, 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:38.640 that's true. Probably a lot of those, a lot of 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.800 that going on. So yeah, I would say they were 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.960 probably skeletons, but whatever. But the key point here is 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:51.039 their heads were gone. Okay, yeah. And as for as 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.799 to the other guy, Bobby, we're apparently a native hunting 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.359 party found at a decomposed body a year later, about 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.040 half a mile away from that spot where the brothers 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.400 were found. But it's not that it apparently wasn't. I 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.920 don't even know how they really identified the brothers. Maybe 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.960 through their possessions, it's the only thing I can obviously, 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.599 not their fingerprints or their dental records. Dental records weren't 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.440 really Also, they never found their heads, so yeah, that 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.039 makes it quite It's hard to do dental records with 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:30.760 no dentists dentie, yeah, okay, yeah, And and so that 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.360 was not the end of it. A guy named Martin Jorgensen, 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.240 who was a prospector, was found headless in nineteen seventeen 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.000 outside the burnt remains of his cabin along the Flat 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.039 River and other versions. He was found inside the cabin 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.080 and so and so, I was right about this time 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.120 that the nickname of Headless Valley, or also the Valley 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.240 of the Headless Men both of them began to like 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.880 append itself to the Honey Valley for good reasoning. Yeah, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.400 thanks so. And then at the time went by, people 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.159 were disappearing, of course at a steady rate. Minor from 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.359 Ontario was found in his sleeping bag in the Valley 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.160 of the Headless Man. What again, his head missing. And all, 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.200 by the way, none of the heads that disappeared whatever found, well, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:17.000 they never are in Highlander either, yea, nobody else has 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.119 made that connection. Come on, this valley is obviously where 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:28.720 the Highlanders are going. It could be quickening the Yukon. Sure, okay, yeah, 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.320 see there were other mysterious desks that didn't involve to 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.480 be heading. In one case, the body of a trapper 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.400 named John O'Brien was found sitting this camp frozen solid, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 next to his campfire, with a box of matches in 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.040 his hand. I also heard in a version that it 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.720 appeared that the fire had been burning amazingly hot at 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.400 one point, and so he must have flashed frozen. Did 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.880 you come across that? I saw that. I saw that 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.160 that out there, and I don't it doesn't make any sense. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:57.960 I couldn't find any support for that. I think he 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.480 probably actually fell and fell in the river. Was like, 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.360 you know, I had really bad exposure and was, you know, 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.239 shaking like a leaf and trying to get a fire 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.520 lit and just didn't quite. Yeah, that's that's probably what 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.400 I think. Or somebody murdered him. But he's still at 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.480 his head. He's still had his head, got it, Yeah, 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.000 kept his head about him. Yeah. So here's some theories 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.560 about this place and why it became this evil, this 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.000 place of evil headlessness. Some people thought that there might 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.880 be some sort of mad trapper or murderous hermit running 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.680 around in the Honey Valley. That sounds familiar, Yeah, Yeah, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:32.000 I remember remember Albert Johnson, Yeah, trapper of Rat River. Yeah, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:33.960 there's a guy named Dick North who wrote a book 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.760 about him. And North speculated that Johnson might have passed 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.640 through the valley in the years prior to his moved 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.000 to Rat River, and he thinks Johnson might be responsible 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.920 for at least some of the murders, but of course 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:47.800 he has no evidence of that. And of course Johnson 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.120 died in nineteen thirty two, so he obviously couldn't have 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:56.320 carried out the nad Yeah, and I think he was 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.440 too young to have murdered the McCloud brothers in nineteen 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.000 o six, I would agree, Yeah, because he was in 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.240 his forties when he died. Is that right? But they 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.240 weren't really sure that Johnson. I mean I think they 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.920 were thinking maybe right around forty. Yeah, that would make 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:15.080 you a child at in when the first murders occurred. Yeah, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.840 that doesn't work, Okay. Our next theory, uh is some 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.760 people actually believe this, the natives mostly something. I thought 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.720 that it was a remnants of the missing Naha tribe. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.959 So maybe they didn't actually completely disappear. They're just hiding 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.880 and they're looking at the valley and then so they 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.400 did it. Tell me you read up on how this 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.320 gets tied into the hollow earth theory. Oh, the hollow 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.920 earth theory. You know, I didn't. I've heard of the 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:43.960 hollow earth theory. I wasn't really going to include this 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.959 whole thing with the hollow earth theory. But yeah, there 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:47.720 is there is a theory out there among some people 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.640 that you know, the earth is hollow and that the 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.559 entrance is in this valley, which is why if you 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.160 get too close to finding that entrance to the hollow Earth, 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.440 then you know you've got to be off. You know what. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.560 It also makes me think of this this whole the 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.840 rance to where this tribe is living. And I don't 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.160 think Devon's going to know this, but you might remember 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.480 this is there was an old comic called Tar Rock, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.200 Son of Stone. Do you remember that at all? That 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.439 sounds vaguely familiar. Yeah, I remember seeing that. I don't. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.200 I don't think I ever read that. Well, yeah, it's 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.520 been on and off for fifty sixty years, but it's 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.200 it was written as two Indian or it was an 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.120 Indian man, an American Indian man, and an American Indian boy. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.120 Find a cave, go into the system, and come into 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.920 a world where dinosaurs are still about. It's basically kind 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.800 of the same Hollow Earth, find your way in, find 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.720 your way out, travel between the two. But that's exactly 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:40.320 what it made me think of, is that they're going 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.400 into this paradise and then they're protecting the entrance of 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.120 paradise for all these interlopers who were going to come 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.440 in and destroy it on them. I always like it 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.920 when you're like, Devon's too young to know this totally 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.800 nerdy reference that totally knows about you. Do. Yes, you 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.480 just watched the animated version, didn't you know. Let's keep 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.440 going okay, all right, okay, next theory. The then a tribe. 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.120 They're the ones who, like you, lived outside the valley 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.640 and didn't not to go into the valley. They had 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.800 a theory that it was the New luck, the new Cluck. Yeah, okay, 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.800 what the heck is the new cluck? Yeah? New Cluck 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.199 is a word that translates as men of the bush. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.520 All the Arctic tribes knew of the New Cluck, and 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.040 they all were afraid of the New Cluck. Apparently, what 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.160 they are is they're short, sort of Neanderthal like sort 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.800 of human human, but with with more fur, and they 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.800 have they carry stone weapons, like stone clubs and such things, 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.440 and they're very violent. And it's said that they used 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.360 to run the whole the Arctic Circle and that and 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.600 that as at the time of our story, their numbers 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.679 were believed to have been reduced enough that they were 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.600 all maybe had hanging out in the Honey Valley. They're 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.439 like a hairy ogre or something. Is that what that is? 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.400 I know obviously the more locks, right yeah, yeah, from 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.680 the time machine. Yeah yeah, yeah, that would make sense too. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.760 I could be yeah, yeah, I don't know. These guys 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.400 apparently were some sort of just left behind branch of 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.640 humanity and perhaps this is one of those things. Not 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.319 I don't want to like railroad sidetrack this at all, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:07.920 but this is one of those things that makes me 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.760 contemplate how aware we are as humans of our past 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:17.200 and how much leftover there is and mother civilization and 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.320 going down a rabbit hole. But the fact that you know, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.000 Native indigenous people very often refer to this thing that 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:29.000 we know now definitely existed and predated us, and they 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.800 always have that as like a remnant somehow of a memory. 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.080 But they live, they live literally on the ground there 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:37.840 in the middle of it all the time, and they're 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.160 passing that history, whereas we as a society. The white man, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.600 from what I can understand, hasn't explored this area other 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.600 than aerial photography. We said, a plane over, we took 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.679 a picture. That's it. Yeah, Like there's tons we don't know. Yeah, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.319 I just mean, like in terms of having this kind 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.080 of mythical thing, Well, you're talking not just this particular 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.439 value in general, the new cluck. Yeah, I'm always I'm 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.440 always astounded it when you hear stories of that. Anyways, 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.520 there there are actually a few European men who who's 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.199 seen these critters. In ninety four, trapper named John Baptist 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.600 was was with some companions and in the valley and 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.200 they came across a strange man like creature about five 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.839 feet tall, had long, bushy hair and beard and hairy 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.240 chested back, and the hair was not quite so thick 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.000 on the arms and legs, and yeah, he took the 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.480 new Cluck took off. Baptist and his friends tracked it 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.600 for a while. Uh, and the entire time they heard 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.520 strange whistling calls in the brush around them. Members of 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.520 the tribe later explained what that whistling meant. That's how 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.840 the new cluck communicated when they were on the hunt. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.240 So these guys thought they were tracking the new cluck, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.600 but apparently a group of them, we're tracking these guys. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.600 The hunter becomes the hunting. Yeah, just like a group 0:13:54.600 --> 0:14:00.679 of velociraptors. Yeah. There There was another new exciting in 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.160 nineteen sixty four by a sound kid whose name. His 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.880 name does not has not been passed down to remember. So, 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.520 I don't know, I don't know that these things are 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.199 actually real. It sounds like it might not be beyond 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.880 the realm of possibility. Yeah, Yeah, that's always a hard 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.439 one to say. We don't have anything that says they 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.560 don't exist, that's the hard part. Yeah. Um, so I 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.600 believe in their existence, maybe a little bit more than 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.120 than a hot tribe. So our next theory the Wauhila. 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.520 Remember the Wahila, that wolf bear hybrid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.240 so it could have been the Wahila, except I don't 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.400 really believe in the Wahila. The Waka. You know, what 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.400 the Wahuila sounds like to me is kind of like 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.800 that hairless bear they saw. Remember that bear, the like 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.680 sun bear or something that was roaming around. Maybe it 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.880 was a grizzly bear that was like really really sick, 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.320 and so it didn't have any hair on it, and 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.120 people were taking pictures of it and they were like, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.960 what is this creature? This just happened like a few 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:57.680 months ago. Remember this, No, never mind, our listeners will know. No. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.600 I was just gonna say, is that. I mean, critters 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:04.200 that are in states of distress tend to look really 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.240 weird too. I remember the Montauk creature a couple of 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.600 years back. It turned out to be a pig. Yeah, 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.280 but it was all it was washed up in the 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.360 ocean and all beat up and it looks like something 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.440 completely different. But I could see how a very sick 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.000 and I'm like, sick mange or something. Yeah, this bear 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.040 looked like a brand new animal that nobody had ever 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.880 seen before. And they finally tranquilized it, and they're like, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.400 oh crap, it's a really really sick bear. So they 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.600 got it and treated it and released it and it 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.400 looks totally normal. Again. Good for the bear anyways. Yeah, well, okay, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.960 so so much for the Wahila. There are next areas 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.320 that maybe these incidents were just unrelated. I mean, that's obviously. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.080 It's in a really rugged environment with bears and wolverines 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.000 and stuff like that. I'm inclined to go with this one, 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.120 just so, you know, is it because it's reasonable? Yeah, exactly. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.880 I realized nobody can see me. Not yeah, but boring. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.360 In the case of the McCloud brothers, Bobby weird body 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.320 was not found with him, so maybe he killed them, uh, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.120 and then took off himself. And maybe they did yeah, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:08.880 and then they got a whole bunch of gold and 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.040 then Bobby killed him and took off. The remains that 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.960 were found a half mile away may or may not 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.840 have been his remains, and maybe the clouds died from 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.440 disease and in the cold, and we're left to get 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.640 help just or just to say it himself, and he 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.080 just died somewhere along the way. And it's just really 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.640 really hard to say. As for their skulls, I mean, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.520 if you're laying there in the rush for like, you know, 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.800 a couple of years, an animal might actually just come 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.040 and but chew your head off and carry it away. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.600 We've we've talked about this many, many times about how 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.360 far bones will travel from the initial side of death. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:46.000 I think this is a remote, inhospitable place. And the 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.520 odds of dying from a cold accidents animal tax because 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.240 you can't just call nine one one emergency. You're just 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.640 out of luck. And just if you do something as 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.320 a routine in our society as breaking a leg, well 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.440 that's it for you. There's say, okay, well it's gonna 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.360 be a three month hike to get to the doctor, 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.000 which is a problem. But on the other other hand, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.720 last there it is interesting that deaths occurred with the 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.240 beheadings and everything within a span of about forty years, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.399 and in more recent years people have visited the value, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.399 and nobody's lost their head, so it's possible beheadings and 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.480 the murders were done by one person. That really is possible. 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.600 So I mean forty years, that's not an unnaturally long lifespan. Obviously, 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.560 you're not gonna start killing people till you're at least like, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:35.359 you know, fifteen or eighteen whatever the legal ages in Canada. Okay, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.680 But and and it's it's also possible of this if 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.639 if it was some serial killer, you know, real mad trapper, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.520 kind of lunatic. It turns out that the value that 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.879 has this mans has a lot of limestone caves in it, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.120 so a lot of places to high bodies. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.480 So who knows gonna be one of these days somebody 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.640 will be exploring a cave and make a really ghastly 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:00.720 fine and or something. Uh, that would be really the 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.560 Throne of them In the first Conan movie and the 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.159 Throne of Skulls, I don't remember, it's been so long 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.320 since I've seen that. I know, I swear it was 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.200 a Throne of Skulls. Maybe it was in the comic 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.240 good Man. Yeah, I know. So that's it. So the 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:20.600 value they had this man don't go their kids yeah, don't. Uh. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:22.919 You guys want to talk about my place, but I 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:28.520 kind of want to go We're gonna talk about the 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:34.719 Aokigahara Forest, which is also known as the Japanese suicide 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.359 forest cheerful place. So if that is the sort of 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:47.480 thing that disturbs you, skip ahead twenty ish minutes. Sorry, everyone, 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.200 We're not going to call it that. We It's often 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.040 referred to as the Sea of Trees, which in Japanese 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.840 can be said as the Jucai, which is how a 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.199 lot of people refer to this forest. So we're going 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.000 to go ahead and just refer to it as that. Okay, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.040 let's pretend I didn't already tell you that it's a 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:10.160 suicide forest, because it's a beautiful, lush forest, the kind 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.880 that you would see like in a Miyazaki film. Kind 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.920 of Uh. It's an idyllic fourteen square miles at the 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.439 foot of Mount Fuji, and it is the most the 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.240 second most popular place in the world to commit suicide, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.440 the first is the Golden Gate Bridge. Numbers vary, but 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.679 reportedly anywhere between ten and a hundred people kill themselves 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.760 in the Juchai every year. In two thousand and ten, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:38.159 there were fifty seven confirmed suicides. In two thousand to 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.320 the number of confirmed suicides was seventy eight. And I 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:45.840 say confirmed because we don't have a way of knowing 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:52.080 for sure. In two thousands three, after a rumored hundred 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:56.240 and five confirmed suicide, the government decided maybe telling everybody 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.240 how many people killed themselves in this forest is a 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.000 bad idea, and the reason that was to stop it 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.080 from attracting other people to go to do it. I 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.399 think that was definitely part of it. Part of it 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.960 was to stop this kind of cycle. Another part of 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.840 it was it is a tourist attraction. There's a really 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.440 famous ice cave there. There's a couple really famous other caves. 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.720 There's a wind cave and a bunch of other really 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.639 beautiful stuff. Yeah, go look at the photos of the caves. 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.399 They're fantastic. Yeah, you have to. You have to google 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.280 specific things in regards to this one. If you just 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.520 google the forest, it'll just kind of show you some 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.480 pictures of a really beautiful place. But they were trying 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.280 to nip the whole everybody will kill yourself there thing 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.080 in the bud, but also not scared tourists away. That 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:50.440 makes sense. It kind of like in Jaws. Yeah, so 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.640 many weird references today. Uh So, in addition to the 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.320 kind of confirmed numbers, I don't know how they necessarily 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.920 can confirm what happened in this past year versus not, 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.760 but they the local government does conduct annual searches for bodies, 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.160 and with the forest being what it is, it's hard 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.600 to know if the bodies are older or younger, or 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.720 maybe they got missed in last year's search. It's always 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.080 it's an incredibly lush forest. It's really easy to get lost. 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.440 It's hard to tell. It's also frozen half of the 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.120 year or more so. It's possible that bodies could freeze 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:36.320 in a non decomposed state for six, eight, twelve almost months, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.200 and then they have a warm spell, it decompos, it 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:44.640 starts to decompose, it freezes again. It's hard. Yeah, and 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.480 frankly I think sometimes they just don't even try, because 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.760 that's a lot of bodies. Yeah, it's a very small 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.320 group that has to deal with it. Yeah, it is 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.719 in the name of prevention. Not only are there large 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.040 signs at every trailhead urging people to seek help, but 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.160 workers also play signs as they search for the bodies 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.439 to remind people that there's something to live for, just 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.840 kind of sporadically around the forest. So at least they're 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.720