WEBVTT - The Possibility of a Digital Commons Ft. Andrew 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.560 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of It could 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.240 happen here once again. Who's still around myself Andrew and 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:17.440 also joined with Garrison is here as well, and me mea, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.920 I'm also here. And of the things that I've been 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:27.560 thinking about lately, because I've been reading a lot more fiction, UM, 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.160 a lot of things and these sorts of sci fi's 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:36.480 fair particularly UM some Activia, but the UM, some orcum, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:42.800 some Margaret Atwood, I recently read Orks and Creek. UM. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.000 I've just been thinking about a lot of these concepts 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:51.000 that are presented in stories um in sci fi UM. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.559 And what is more sci fi than the idea of 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:59.080 computers that sort of digital space, and what has become 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.280 of the digital would um as of late as you know, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:09.920 and really since its inception, as capitalism has sort of 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.720 chopped it up and privatized it and sequested it and 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:19.679 monopolized it. As I think that it really um goes 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.160 against what the principles of the Internet should be m 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.880 in terms of how it is run, how it is structured, 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.720 how it is organized. Because the Internet as a concept 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:37.480 really brings together, um a variety of people, variety of 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:43.680 spaces and backgrounds and intersections and I believe it would 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.880 be a place of sharing, a place of collaboration, particularly 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:51.520 since the sort of resources that might be um limited 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.920 in the physical world, ah far more abundant in the 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.720 digital world. Um. I'm thinking too, of like educational resources 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.000 and otherwise, of course they are you know, infrastructural limitations. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:12.400 But on the cloud, you know, um, in cyberspace. And 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.880 I cringe saying that because it makes me feel like 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:22.560 a boomer. Um. You know, they have the ability to 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.280 freely and easily copy and share and paste wherever and whenever, 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:35.079 basically without many limitations. Um. And instead of really seizing 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.640 that for what it could be, you know, we've we've 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:47.080 turned it into this sort of um corporate feudalism. Um. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:52.800 We're all these uh digital margritcoporations, these social media giants 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.880 basically have carved of the Internet into their own little 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:03.440 you know, fiefdoms and dominated um the discourse, you know, 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.560 dominated how we communicate with each other, how we tend 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.400 to communicate each other bast in the main stream side 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.560 of the internet. What has become to mein stream things 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.320 what most people think of when they think of the Internet. Um, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.240 But I'm not a big fan of that. Idea of 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.080 the Internet, that perception, that conception of the Internet in 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.919 fact um as something that I have been thinking about 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.040 and developing and discussing for the past couple of months 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.320 and researching for the past couple of months. I really 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.520 think that among all the other things that I've discussed 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:45.160 unnecessary components in developing the commons, in creating and re 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:49.720 establishing the commons, I think digital commons will be just 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:57.720 as important because the commons, uh, the rather, the inclusion 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.400 of the commons is what really kicked off the establishment 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.840 of capitalism. I believe the re establishments of the commons 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:11.480 will be required in that transition away from capitalism towards 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:17.000 a more collective, more communal, um, more sustainable way of life. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.120 For those who um, I guess just tuning in this 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:28.239 perhaps your first episode with me at least, or perhaps 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.080 you've never seen any of the figures of my channel, UM, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.080 I'll take a moment to, you know, explain what exactly 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:40.760 the commons are. The commons referred to the resources accessible 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.680 to all members of a society, the totality of the 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.560 material riches of that part of the world, of that world, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:53.239 regarded as the inheritance of humanity as a whole, something 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.320 to be shared together the commons, or something that are 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.600 based on common pool resources or cprs, which is any 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.120 natural or man made system that is organized to benefit 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.919 a group of people, but would provide diminished benefits to 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.400 everyone if each person pursued their own self interest. And 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.320 of course these resource systems, like I said, it could 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.880 be natural or man made, so they could be forests, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.160 you know, traditionally there are things like forests and irrigation 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:26.000 canals and fisheries and pastures and drown water basins. Um. 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:27.760 But I think it's it can be expanded even food. 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:32.240 I mean things like energy infrastructure like windmills, winterwo banes 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:39.479 or as. Um. Going to describe different portions of the Internet, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.320 different resource systems within the interntion of course the Internet 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.040 as a who well, I believe all of those things 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:54.880 can um can be brought under the commons um And 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.040 of course the commons. The theory of commons, history of 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.560 the Commons is it's all uh lengthy discussion. Of course, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.880 you could read about it and Governing the Commons by 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.919 eleanor Ostrom. You could listen to a sort of a 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:13.120 condensed version of that. In my video on my channel 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.360 on the commons as an institution, but when it comes 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.719 to you know, information and communication technologies, when it comes 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.760 to I c t S and sort of applying that 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.560 commons idea to I C T S, I'd like to 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.760 think about it in terms of these sort of digital 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.000 communities bringing together people who share, you know, common goals 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:41.080 to collaboratively build and share those resources through technology. So 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.960 I would say that digital commons are or can be, 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.080 and can be because I think some of them already 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:52.800 exist in some form. But they are basically these online 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:59.240 creation communities where you know, there's a free flu um 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:03.960 and free access to and free collaboration, um. You know, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.039 the sharing of this non exclusive digital information and the 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:13.080 collective creation of like knowledge resources. These resources of course 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.240 being owned and used freely between or among the community 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:22.040 and also available for use by three parties. So and 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.760 instead of being exchanged as commodities, you know, these resources 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:35.000 are used and reused and reused without artificial restrictions to 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.680 sort of enforce an artificial scarcity. UM. I just actually 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.400 thought of a really funny example that I hadn't initially 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.320 conceived of in a sort of guideline for this episode, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:49.440 I don't know. If you're a lot of familiar with 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:57.600 Martin Scorsese, is gonetro of no? Okay? So in three 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:05.760 Martin Scorsese developed this film called Gone. It's a historical 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.760 epic um, a sort of a post war era mafia movie. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.160 And it was directed by scotts Czy and it started 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.040 Robert de Niro and Alpuccino and Gene Hackman. It had 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:21.680 a sort of deep hume eroticism blended with a sort 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.720 of exploration of of medial aggression. It's a sort of 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.840 a look at the relationship between Gon Shrev, who is 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:36.400 a Russian mafia boss, and his partners slash rival, slash 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.800 old friend Andrew, who I believe is supposed to be 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.760 an Italian mafia boss. But the thing about Gone Sharov 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.320 and I mean, you can find posters about it, you 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.000 can find fan art of which you can find many, many, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:57.440 many fan fictions about it. Um, But Gonsuv is not 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:03.400 a real movie. V. It does not exist. Everything I 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:09.800 described it's entirely fake. The litany of colorful side characters 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.600 that you know, people have developed for this movie, the 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.559 hundreds of fan fictions, the dozens of methanalyses and pieces 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.520 of fun arts people have, you know, generated for this movie. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.760 The movie itself does not exist. The movie only exists 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:34.600 in the collective um co creation of it that took 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:40.400 place over a Tumbler of all places. Essentially, a couple 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.360 of Tumbling users basically came up with this idea of 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:49.760 this lost Martin Scorsese film that everybody has seemingly forgotten, 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.760 and they would rave about it, and they would come 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.959 up with fake plot points and fake characters, and before 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:56.320 you know it, you know, it's sort of like this 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:03.839 massive Internet phenomenon, sort of inside joke Internet, inside juke UM. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.679 One of people started building on top of it and 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.600 respecting what came before um, and that sort of spirit 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.840 of co creation is what it ended up creating. This 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.680 gone this teal of gone throw, this gone through of fandom, 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:22.360 this whol development of Gone Through as a character of 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.560 the side characters as you know, fully developed characters. And 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.000 it all started because you know, one user said to 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.080 another like, oh, don't you know the movie Gone Shurov's 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.720 only the greatest Mafia movie ever made. On that tagline, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.400 the greatest Matthia movie ever made would be built upon 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:48.160 with further photoshops and embellishments and developments, and there's now 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.960 like a really comprehensive document of gone shureoff law. Um. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.079 Things are added and just things added in complete seriousness. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.959 But it's just a thing that exists. It's a thing 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.240 that I believe. UM. It's just one manifestation of many 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:08.160 of what the Internet has the capacity to produce. When 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:14.000 online creation communities are allowed to operate freely UM and develop, 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:22.320 they wouldn't sort of common creative UM resources. I think 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.240 other examples of I guess the seeds of what I'm 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.120 talking about can be seen in UM. I guess like 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:33.040 rule play UM servers and role play communities, role play 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.200 message boards. I think some fandoms also have some of 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:39.720 the seeds of what I'm talking about. Of course, the 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.400 Minecraft community with everything they've created, modern communities across different games. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:49.760 They all sort of manifestations of, you know, human desire 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.160 to create and human desire to share without you know, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:12:02.400 the artificial restrictions and boundaries of of mainstream couples imagination. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.080 I think another manifestation of the digital commons in a 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:13.520 sense could be found in resources like z library, UM 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.040 and a few others that I'm afraid of naming in 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.320 case you don't think get taken down as well. And 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.400 I mean that's really the sad part of ours. The 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.440 library is lost. I mean I haven't really been feeling 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:32.360 that loss because I am aware of the alternatives. Um, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.360 but it's lost on the last because of the way 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.679 the library is formatted, it was a bit more accessible. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.600 It's a lot of people and people aware of it 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.760 and stuff. UM, but Z library, and I'm glad that 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.640 it's called a library. It's called Z library. It's just 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.760 you know, one manifestation of the UM the routes of 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.640 the library as a concept and how it can manifest 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:03.480 UM in the digital speece, how the commons through the 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.280 I guess the conception of the library can manifest in 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.400 a in a digital space. I mean even you know, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.160 mainstream ones we have like we have, we have stuff 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.320 like archive dot org and I know archive dot org 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.600 is trying to launch something to host a whole bunch 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.120 of scientific journals and other articles that are harder to 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.160 access as well, but I mean they already host you know, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:32.440 quite impressive plethora of copyrighted books. UM. Me and Robert 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.800 have gotten into arguments on Twitter dot com with many 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.440 an author who is mad about their book being on 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:45.600 archive dot archived dot org. And so that is you know, 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.720 there is, there is, There is many resources if you 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.040 know where to look. But sadly some are some someone 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.440 are no longer with us and people have been have 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.040 been u punished by the state for trying to provide 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:04.040 open access to information. Yeah, I mean who controls information? Right? Well, however, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:16.880 the same goes I think another as you mentioned, kind 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.960 another example of that sort of collaborative information sharing can 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.280 be seen and of course Wikipedia, you know, yeah, as 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.360 personal computers and the intents became more more accessible, the 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:36.400 lower barriers of expression and stuff. Um, this Internet culture 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.920 as and it was initially born, it was one with 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.200 the aim of, you know, collaboratively creating cultural content. Is 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.920 that developing and generating you know, univer we sell access 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.000 to knowledge, you know, Wikipedia just one example. Of course, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.160 different wikis blural but of course longer called wickies. I 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.880 think it's called fandom that all or something now. Yes, Unfortunately, 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.800 fandom bought a whole bunch of uh different wiki sites 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.640 that were independently operated over the course of the past 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.640 twenty years, and then they kind of consolidated under the 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.560 big fandom company. Yeah, now like half of them are 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:20.480 unusable because of ads and stuff. Yeah, it is, it is. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.480 It's it's pretty rough to scroll a fandom site. It's 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.720 not the easiest thing. But I will see, as a 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.360 youth with a few regulations and my access to the Internet, 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.200 it was actually quite nice to be able to go 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.320 onto fandom and just like well I was, you know, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.520 around when it was still Wicky. Um, but you know, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.320 going like Marvel Wicky or going TC Wicky and read 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.520 up on all the different characters I was into at 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.480 the time. Oh yeah, absolutely. You know I used to 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.560 go on like power listing Wicky and like come up 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.640 with characters, you know, piece on certain superpowers. Um. And 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.080 I also created my own Wicky for my own like 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.560 meat up, uh sort of world building project. Um. And 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.480 just the fact that resource was available, you know, that 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:13.920 the tools were easy, were free to access, um, and 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.760 that easy to understand as well. UM. And of course 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.800 they were always tutorials and stuff available if you don't 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.200 know how to function and what to do certain things. 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:29.160 Just that that that accessibility, UM and freedom is something 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.200 that I think is still exists, you know, in some sense, 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.680 despite you know, this company buying out everything, and I 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.800 appreciate the fact that you know, unlike you know that 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:46.080 company Wikipedias and me and e og. Wikipedia continues to 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:51.920 maintain their steadfast anti ad um you know, standing um 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:58.800 and continues to you know, um run on I guess 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:05.760 crowdsourced donations just just today as of the day that 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:11.000 we're recording. Uh. People whole a whole bunch of the 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.000 right wingers that have coalesced around Musk after his purchase 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:20.560 of Twitter have gotten mad at Wikipedia for not for 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:27.560 they've They've gotten mad that Wikipedia wasn't was wasn't re 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:34.720 posting their fake Twitter files drama thing um as glowingly 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.800 as some of them might like. And they're complaining about 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.040 Wikipedia's left wing bias. And a whole bunch of these 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.600 Musk fan boys are talking about being like, hey, Elon 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.600 Musk should buy Wikipedia and fix Wikipedia's left wing bias. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.840 And this there's this one, this this one guy who 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.760 was like, um, I wonder how much Wikipedia would cost 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.240 to buy at Elon Musk and then the the uh, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.639 the founder of Wikipedia's like, absolutely not, this is not 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:08.040 for sale. We are not letting Elon muskmpie Wikipedia. Yeah, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.600 I mean if if conservatives really want um a platform 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:17.560 that badly, there's always conservative Pedia or whatever it's called. Um, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:22.600 there's always Encyclopedia if they want to get really wacky. UM. 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.560 But yeah, Wikipedia is going to continue being Wikipedia, thankfully. UM. 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.680 I appreciate the rabbit holes it has let me through. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.800 I appreciate the Wikipedia games that I've been able to play. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.840 You know, like you have to go from one page 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.960 to another. Uh, you know that kind of degrees of 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.800 pages how you link two different completely different topics. But yeah, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:48.680 zero advertising, accessible to all many different languages. Of course, 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.840 you know it's not completely flawless. They're sitting um, very 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:57.639 contentious articles of course, UM. They always be attempts to 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.960 hijack that those peaches for the post of propaganda. Of course, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.240 every article has its bias. But By and Lodge, because 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.600 of the collaborative nature of the project, they have been 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:14.359 ways to mitigate bad actors and respond to um those 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.000 sorts of attempts at corruption and cooptation. So you know, 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.880 it goes to show that you know, even something as 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.840 I would say, the centrally organized as Wikipedia, um, is 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:31.680 still able to regulate itself collaboratively. Yeah. I think around 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.359 this time last year here on the show, we interviewed 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:42.480 somebody from Wikimedia UM specifically talking about how the talking 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.240 about the the regional differences of the wikipedias that are 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.600 in different countries and in different regions, how that impacts 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.560 access access information, and how people in their own communities 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.959 can work towards providing a fuller better picture of the 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.399 types of information that people are getting. UM. And the 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.000 great part about it is that it really does put 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.320 the power into anyone's hands. It's not it's it's not 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:13.160 gate kept the same way a lot of other information is. Yeah. Yeah, 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:25.879 that's the beauty of it. Really, I think another prominent 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.880 case of information sharing rather file sharing and just sort 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.040 that that payer to pay architecture we found in really UM, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.160 the pirating community could and could you know, there's facilities, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.640 access and the exchange of cultural products there might otherwise 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.760 be lost, you know, as we're seeing with a lot 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.600 of these shows being axed, and you know, people's hard 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.920 earned UM, you know hard people who you know, really 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.359 worked hard on sitting projects and stuff. These companies with 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.440 their you know, tax dodging schemes and whatever, you're able 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.240 to basically sweep all out a side UM and so 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.000 the fact that um, we are able to preserve and 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.720 of course in films and view and TV shows being 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.480 taken down by sit in streaming services and not eve 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:16.960 being able to be found easily physically. UM. You know, 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:23.399 having these files and stuff just accessible online UM shared 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.119 between payers is it's really great to see, UM, and 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.480 it really allows for the preservation of things right otherwise 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.280 be lost. And of course there's also as another example 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.760 of a sort of digital comments UM, the idea of 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.000 open source, or really the free software movement, which is 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:50.040 a social movement aimed at attaining and guaranteeing certain freedoms 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.280 for software users, you know, to run the software, to 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.800 study software, to modify the software, and to share copies 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.320 of that software, whether the modified or not. UM. The 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.119 philosophy of this free software movement is really this idea 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.639 that computer you should not lead to people being prevented 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.120 from corporating with other In fact, it should be the opposite, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.800 should be allowing people to cooperate with each other. So 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:19.200 things like you rejecting restrictions on software, promoting free software, 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:26.480 and liberating people who use technology, use computers. It's really 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.480 what you know, the free software movement is trying to 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.320 do um. One of the founders of the movement again 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.000 name is Stilman. He has said that the idea of 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.399 the free software movement is that, you know, by allowing 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:44.520 free access to software, it allows it promotes, rather than 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.920 hinders the progression of technology, because it means that much 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:52.200 of the wasteful duplication of system programming effort can be avoided, 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:56.960 you know that EFFLCA instead of going into advancing different projects. 0:22:57.320 --> 0:22:59.679 So you open source and you know, free software movement 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:01.960 what you want to call it, it's although I know 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.720 there's some people make a distinction, um it is I 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:11.280 would believe, I would think a manifestation of digital comments 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:16.920 people are able to self organize through the associate and 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.879 really just allowing people to you know, get their hands 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:25.840 on some software, to create, to run, to redistribute, to 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:30.160 change their software, to look to pick apart and learn 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:37.960 from certain code. Um, I really just allow people to 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.760 continue to create and share. And the sort of culture 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:45.520 that open source and free software creates is one of 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.800 you know, courtesy, is one of collaborations of helping one 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.960 another to contribute to a greater whole, um, to sort 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:57.280 of regulate each other's monitor activity that might jeopardize the project, 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.160 and we see the benefits of that. You know, out 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:06.680 of the most recognizable, high traffic open software projects, uh stable, 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.159 you know, they're secure and they're very thoroughly understood by 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.639 the people who collaborate to create them, compared to a 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.480 lot of the more clues and proprietary projects that are 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.879 not as accessible, not as open to scrutiny and study. 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:26.720 So it is, I think, in a sense, a phone 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:30.320 of of anarchy and um of people governing themselves and 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.720 cooperating to create a whole greater than any individual could 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:37.760 create a loan um. And speaking of you know people 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:43.320 I guess coming together and communicating and collaborating. Um. It's 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.719 this sense that I guess people have been discussing a 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:52.480 lot lately of the digital public square, and Twitter teams 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.000 is usually at the center of that conversation, This idea 0:24:56.160 --> 0:25:01.360 that we have this space that you know, that shouldn't 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:06.280 be privatized, shouldn't that should be freely accessed and everyone 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.320 could communicate without restriction. And when you have the free 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:15.320 speech people within that honestly question the value of Twitter 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:20.680 pretty much every day. Uh you know, obviously some good 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:23.800 let's come out of it and the really other sort 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.280 of quote and quote digital public squares like any sort 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:30.000 of me and extreame social media. Some good you know, 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:32.720 comes out to them. You know, you meet people, you 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:34.760 are able to work in projects, able to meat like 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.720 minded folks. All that is is good. But also a 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:42.280 lot of you know, terrible, terrible things have come out 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:47.159 to these platforms and continue to every single day. UM, 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:51.080 So it's it's a mixed bag. But I think any 0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:54.479 sort of digital commons project will need a space, um 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:57.760 and how that space is conceived what of course need 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:03.119 to be unmoored from you know, havelessmashination, um that the 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.560 act whole um, you know, potential economy, reach economy that 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:14.159 aims to keep us divided and button heads. But I 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:15.760 do think they will need to be they will need 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:21.040 to be a space for communication across boundaries, across regions 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:25.199 around the world easily. Last thing I really wanted to 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:29.239 touch on on this topic. It's really the sort of 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:33.800 the overlap between the idea of digital commons and t growth, 0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:36.840 so you know both sort of question that sort of 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.680 means an idea of consumption. Um, digital commons, you know, 0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:45.040 they promote this this idea of someone who both consumes 0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:49.240 and produces, consumes value and digital space, but also adds 0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:55.880 to that value. That doesn't could modify UM the resources 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:59.120 available in the digital space, but rather, you know, makes 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:03.639 it accessible and adds to it, contributes to it. And 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:05.639 that's at the idea of open access really something to 0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:09.120 the growth also tries to emphasize, you know, even though 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:12.760 we're trying to scale within planetary limits, we still want, 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.080 you know, a good life for all. We still want 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:21.200 people to to collaborate and create UM and fract beople 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:25.000 more free to do so without limitations that the growth 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:31.399 oriented capitas economy imposes on us. The idea, of course 0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:34.679 digital commons also brings the means of production in the 0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:37.720 digitals fare under the control of the communities who use it. 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:41.400 We use that resource, who use that service, in complete 0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:45.000 contrast the capitalist them of keeping them perfectly health and 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:54.760 aiming to serve profit. Digital commons and deep growth both 0:27:54.800 --> 0:28:01.640 emphasize access UM it's information to knowed three resources as 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:04.320 part of our human heritage, as part of our human rights. 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:10.160 The commons should be something that is openly available rather 0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:20.280 than restricted, commodified, privatized. Of course, unlike traditional commands, UM 0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:26.240 you know, digital commons are not easily exhaustible, not really exhaustible. UM. 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.680 They're not subject to many of the limitations that physical 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.639 commons would have. But at the same time, you know, 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:37.320 they depend on a certain infrastructure, and infrastructure that relies 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:41.440 on you know, energy, and that energy has to come 0:28:41.520 --> 0:28:45.200 from somewhere. Being able to access the internet requires UM 0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:51.840 certain tools, certain technologies, computers, phones, whatever, UM, and the 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:56.360 resources required to create those technologies has to come from somewhere. UM. 0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:01.160 The cables and the oceans, the satellites and space. You know, 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.240 the electricity for the computers, the materials for the phones 0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:09.239 and the computers. All of those things UM consume and 0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:12.840