Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: It's all a lie, a fabrication as some people call it.
Speaker 2: It's an outright lie. As many of you legal eagles
Speaker 2: had already figured out through your sleuthing and just playing
Speaker 2: common sense, Carly Russell is a big liar. Take a
Speaker 2: listen to this.
Speaker 3: But the question is where was she for those forty
Speaker 3: nine hours? She said she stayed ends Hoover the entire
Speaker 3: time and no one helped her. So where was she
Speaker 3: for those forty nine hours?
Speaker 2: Where did she sleep? Where did she stay?
Speaker 3: How did she leave that area where she abandoned her
Speaker 3: red Mercedes sedan? Now a lot of questions left unanswered.
Speaker 3: We also asked about potential charges and the chief told
Speaker 3: us they're looking into that. Prosecutors looking into what charges
Speaker 3: could be found against her, and then they'll decide whether
Speaker 3: those charges will be filed.
Speaker 2: You're hearing our friends at WVTM with me an all
Speaker 2: star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
Speaker 2: But for those of you just joining us on the
Speaker 2: story of twenty five year old Carly Russell, who says
Speaker 2: that she is only trying to render a to a
Speaker 2: top boy walking along the interstate wearing nothing but a
Speaker 2: diaper and a shirt. Then she goes missing for forty
Speaker 2: nine hours, throwing her family and the Hoover PD into
Speaker 2: chaos as they search for her literally around the clock.
Speaker 2: People donating nearly seventy thousand dollars to help find her,
Speaker 2: one anonymous donor giving twenty five grand. They're not getting
Speaker 2: any of that money back. The boyfriend that defended her
Speaker 2: to the hilt has now broken up with her and
Speaker 2: says quote, I'm disgusted. Well, I second that emotion. Guys,
Speaker 2: I want you to hear what the chief of the
Speaker 2: Hoover PD has to say in our cup fifty four.
Speaker 4: Mister Anthony asked that I read the statement in its entirety,
Speaker 4: which I will do now. My client has given me
Speaker 4: permission to make the following statement on her behalf. There
Speaker 4: was no kidnapping on Thursday July nineteen thirteenth, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: My client did not see a baby on the side
Speaker 4: of the road. My client did not leave the Hoovaria
Speaker 4: which she was identified as a missing person. My client
Speaker 4: did not have any help in this incident, but this
Speaker 4: was a single act done by herself. My client was
Speaker 4: not with anyone but any hotel with anyone from the
Speaker 4: time she was missing.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand that that is Chief Nick Durvis
Speaker 2: from the Hoover PDE reading a statement of a lawyer
Speaker 2: who has been given a statement by Curly Russell. Woman,
Speaker 2: get out there and apologize yourself for Pete's sake. But
Speaker 2: you're hearing from Curly Russell through her a lawyer, through
Speaker 2: the chief. But I want you to hear this too.
Speaker 2: Now you hear the Chief saying there was no base,
Speaker 2: there was no one in danger. I was never missing.
Speaker 2: Now take a listen to our cut seven, the nine
Speaker 2: to one to one call. Listen to how Rich in detail, it.
Speaker 5: Is four forty two for seventy one, forty two, seventy one,
Speaker 5: it's gonna be forty nine south, my marker ten. It's
Speaker 5: gonna be a child walking on the three four year
Speaker 5: old child walking on the side of the interstate next
Speaker 5: to her. Harpe's going to be close behind the red
Speaker 5: stad sedan with the hazards on. Child's going to be
Speaker 5: a white male wearing a white T shirt and a
Speaker 5: diaper forty from Wick and for forty two. Harpi's advising
Speaker 5: there's no cars in the areas. The child's been abandoned
Speaker 5: on the side of the ridge. For one, you still
Speaker 5: a little phone negative. But she's said that she would
Speaker 5: stand by for police. Forty two call rpback, She's not
Speaker 5: at their vehicle.
Speaker 2: Now remember police got to the scene in about four
Speaker 2: minutes after that nine more month call. Now let's listen
Speaker 2: to Carly Russell in her own words the detail I
Speaker 2: was mentioning earlier in our cut thirteen.
Speaker 6: Now one one, where's the records?
Speaker 7: Say?
Speaker 6: Hi, I am on Interstate four fifty nine and there
Speaker 6: is a kid just walking by their selves. Oh, hold on,
Speaker 6: hold on? Where where I'm fourth down?
Speaker 7: Are you?
Speaker 6: I'm right next to the exit exit ten by the
Speaker 6: couver mitt like to get off by.
Speaker 8: The hooper mit.
Speaker 6: Okay, so you're before that exit, yes, okay? And where
Speaker 6: you're headed southbound or northbound to toward to eighty fort
Speaker 6: Tuscalusive okay? And was the child on the western right side,
Speaker 6: on the right side where they walk on northbound or
Speaker 6: south down? They're walking towards Tuscalusave walking southbound?
Speaker 2: Did you hear that detail? Oh there's more. Listen to
Speaker 2: cup fourteen or how old?
Speaker 6: Did they look like a toddlers?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 6: Maybe like three or four? Did you pull over with them? A?
Speaker 6: Are you still with them?
Speaker 10: Yes?
Speaker 6: Okay you're Are you with the child right now?
Speaker 11: No, I'm not.
Speaker 6: I didn't get out of the car.
Speaker 5: I'm I can see them, though.
Speaker 6: Can you do you mind staying and keep an eye
Speaker 6: on them until we get there? Yeah? Yeah, sure, yeah? Okay?
Speaker 6: What kind of car are you in? I'm in a
Speaker 6: red Mercedes Ben and that a Sadana ORCV SUV.
Speaker 11: I mean it's a Sedan story.
Speaker 6: Can you put your hazards off for me?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 9: They're on?
Speaker 6: Okay. Did you talk to the child on or did
Speaker 6: you say anything to know? Okay?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 6: Do they look like they're injured? No, they don't.
Speaker 2: I love listening to this. I w one one call
Speaker 2: because I know every word she says is a big
Speaker 2: fat lie. And can you imagine her in her red
Speaker 2: Mercedes at night conjuring up this lie? And it's intricate detail.
Speaker 2: Listen to more cut fifteen.
Speaker 6: Are they wife like a Senak or amyl? They're white
Speaker 6: as a male or female? I think it's a boy,
Speaker 6: a little boy, I'm right now. Okay. Is he wearing clothes?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Okay?
Speaker 6: What is he wearing? It's a white T shirt. And
Speaker 6: it doesn't look like he has any pants on. It
Speaker 6: looks like a diaper. And you don't see any cars
Speaker 6: any no, no cause anywhere? Okay, all right, what's your name?
Speaker 6: My name is Carl Russell. And you don't see any
Speaker 6: injuries on the shop from where you're at, correct? No, no,
Speaker 6: But I can't really see them that good, okay, And
Speaker 6: try to keep an eye on them for the best
Speaker 6: big can, because I don't want you to lose track
Speaker 6: of them. And do they have shoes on? No, not
Speaker 6: that I can be. I can't really see that. Look
Speaker 6: all right, I've got them on the way. Okay, just
Speaker 6: try to say, keep an eye on them, but officers
Speaker 6: are on the way, okay, Okay, say.
Speaker 2: Man, she's such a good samaritan. A good samaritan that
Speaker 2: costs the taxpayers, that says about five hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: and costs well wishers and those who want to help
Speaker 2: nearly seventy thousand dollars in donations that they're not going
Speaker 2: to get back with me an all star panel. But
Speaker 2: can I first go to Cheryl McCollum, founder director of
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute, Star of Zone seven, A
Speaker 2: hitting you podcast, and you can find her at coldcasecrimes
Speaker 2: dot org. Cheryl. Really, he's wearing nothing but a diaper,
Speaker 2: and I can't tell if he has on any shoes.
Speaker 2: And he's a white male, about three or four years old.
Speaker 2: And I'm so worried. I'm so worried. The I'm not
Speaker 2: getting out of my car, of course, but i am worried.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to follow him for six hundred yards
Speaker 2: in my car, that six football fields as I try. Boy,
Speaker 2: that little tot should be in the Olympics if it
Speaker 2: can go that fast in nothing but a diaper and barefoot.
Speaker 2: I mean, the story reaped on day one. That's why
Speaker 2: I didn't cover it exactly on day one because it
Speaker 2: was a lie. He was obviously a lie. And we
Speaker 2: have actual people that are really missing, being raped, being
Speaker 2: sex traffick, being killed, and here's this girl making up
Speaker 2: a whole big deal because what I just want somebody
Speaker 2: to love me, really get online. Woman, There are millions
Speaker 2: of people out there that will love you. But why
Speaker 2: do this? What about this statement on nine one one?
Speaker 11: You make excellent points, but let's hope for a second
Speaker 11: about what we don't hear her say. We don't hear
Speaker 11: her say please hurry. We don't hear her say help.
Speaker 11: We don't hear her say I'm going to go out
Speaker 11: and try to save him so that he doesn't.
Speaker 12: Get into the expressway.
Speaker 11: She's just in her car, chilling, and she's only answering questions.
Speaker 11: She didn't offer the description. She didn't offer that he
Speaker 11: wasn't hurt. She didn't offer she was asked those things.
Speaker 11: The only truthful statement she says in the whole thing
Speaker 11: is when she says, yeah, I can't really see that's
Speaker 11: the truth.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, now we're just trying to figure out what
Speaker 2: really happened during those days. And I've got a pretty
Speaker 2: good idea that she was holed up in something akin
Speaker 2: to a red roof in And I'll tell you why. Guys,
Speaker 2: take to listen to our cut sixteen.
Speaker 13: Unclassified Complaints fourteen sixty six Montgomery Highway at the red
Speaker 13: roofs in the front office for caller. Family members at
Speaker 13: this location saying they received a call from the female
Speaker 13: that's missing, Carly Russell. Fifty four family members are saying
Speaker 13: they received a call from the female thing she without
Speaker 13: this location.
Speaker 5: Born around six and the responding units, I just spoke
Speaker 5: with the front desk clothes. They said that the family
Speaker 5: is not being on style or anything like that, but
Speaker 5: that there was about six car loads of people that
Speaker 5: have just shown up over the five four coffee. Did
Speaker 5: the front desk I have anybody checked in under that name? Negative?
Speaker 5: And according to the front desk, the message that the
Speaker 5: family got did not state which red roof in.
Speaker 2: Well, I know this. This is fourteen sixty six Montgomery
Speaker 2: Highway at the Red roof in. That's where the family
Speaker 2: went and nobody was checked in under that name, which
Speaker 2: gives me a very strong indication that she was checked
Speaker 2: in there. What ordering room service and watching pay per
Speaker 2: view under the name We've been given one name. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's correct or not, Shinquela Bronx. Is
Speaker 2: that real? Is that what she was doing while people
Speaker 2: were scouring the high ways and the woods and the
Speaker 2: ravines for her and some tatboy.
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: Savannah Sap multimedia journalist reporter WAFF forty eight in Bama.
Speaker 2: You can find her on Twitter at Savannah Sap sapp
Speaker 2: Savannah what and the Hey if this girl is snugged
Speaker 2: up in a king sized bed with ac on low,
Speaker 2: ordering room service and watching pay per view while everyone
Speaker 2: is tearing their hair out trying to find her. I'm
Speaker 2: going to do a backflip. A backflip, Savannah Sap. What
Speaker 2: do we know?
Speaker 7: It's honestly confusing to say the least. You know, her
Speaker 7: statement that was written to an attorney and given to
Speaker 7: police through the attorney claims that she was not at
Speaker 7: a hotel. But you have all of these people who
Speaker 7: are commenting against that, and you have screenshots of you know,
Speaker 7: family members and friends of hers texting each other saying, yes,
Speaker 7: she was absolutely at a red roof in. You know,
Speaker 7: it's again, it's confusing, to say the least. And if
Speaker 7: she was hold up at a red roof in while
Speaker 7: you know, hundreds of thousands of people are wondering where
Speaker 7: she is, if she's even alive, I think that says
Speaker 7: a lot about the testament of her character.
Speaker 2: Well, of course, you can't go to jail for telling
Speaker 2: a lie unless you're under oath. And I was just
Speaker 2: pointing out this morning about thirty minutes ago. Correct me
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, shell Nut with me. James shell nutt,
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Alabama with
Speaker 2: the shell Nut Law firm. But listen to this twenty
Speaker 2: seven years metro major case as a cop, including SWAT,
Speaker 2: that's not easy. Former prosecutor, he actually prosecuted false report cases.
Speaker 2: You know what, I had so many felonies coming on
Speaker 2: my ears. I didn't even bother with the lies and
Speaker 2: the false report shell Nut. But I'm glad to know
Speaker 2: that I've got an expert that did do it. You
Speaker 2: know what, that reminds me of shell Nuck DUI cases.
Speaker 2: I never handled straight out DUI cases. By the time
Speaker 2: I got them, somebody was dead. It was a habitual
Speaker 2: violator where you have five or more DUIs, there have
Speaker 2: been a vehicular homicide. That's when I would get a DUI.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't get a flat out plane old misdemeanor d UI.
Speaker 2: And you know what, there's an art to proving a DUI.
Speaker 2: You've got to know all the ins and outs of
Speaker 2: blood alcohol, the rights whether you take a breathalyzer or
Speaker 2: don't take a breath. I mean, he's actually very complicated
Speaker 2: to get all those hoops, and defendants can win if
Speaker 2: the prosecutor doesn't know all the ins and outs of
Speaker 2: prosecuting a dui, same thing with a false report. It's true,
Speaker 2: show Nutt that at the bottom of every police report
Speaker 2: there are words to the effect I swear and a
Speaker 2: test under penalty of perjury that all the information that
Speaker 2: I have given is true. Isn't that at the bottom
Speaker 2: of every police report form?
Speaker 14: Oh, it absolutely is. And it's because you are about
Speaker 14: to alert law enforcement to a situation that you know
Speaker 14: that they are going to spend time and resources investigating.
Speaker 14: And it gives you an opportunity to think twice about
Speaker 14: what you just said.
Speaker 2: It's perjury. Perjury is a crime. Now I want to
Speaker 2: point out that Curly Russell is being handled with kid gloves.
Speaker 2: Other people in her situation have gone to jail for this.
Speaker 2: Think about Jesse Smilett, Sherry Peppini, Jennifer Wilbanks. It's so
Speaker 2: called runaway bride, Chloe Dye. But you know another thing
Speaker 2: when it comes to those cases, those people always had
Speaker 2: a culprit. Carly Russell has a white guy with orange
Speaker 2: hair and a ball spot and a woman she never saw,
Speaker 2: and a baby crying in the background that fed her
Speaker 2: cheese its and played with her hair. The woman said
Speaker 2: that she said about the woman, that's part of her story,
Speaker 2: Smolett blamed uh didn't he say, white guys wearing maga hats, okay,
Speaker 2: when it turned out to be the two Osendaro brothers
Speaker 2: his friends. Let's see Sherry Pepini blamed two unidentified Hispanic women,
Speaker 2: and she proceeded to starve and brand herself and beat
Speaker 2: herself up and snug up with her boyfriend for I've
Speaker 2: forgotten how many weeks and showed up much like Carly
Speaker 2: Russell on foot on Thanksgiving Day. Let's see where am I?
Speaker 2: There's Small Wilbanks, Jennifer Willelbanks, the runaway bride. She blamed
Speaker 2: I guess basically a group of his Spanish males that
Speaker 2: kidnapped her, assaulted her on the eve of her wedding.
Speaker 2: And then we've got Chloe Stein. She didn't want her
Speaker 2: family to know she wasn't going to graduate from college,
Speaker 2: so she faked an abduction. Who does she blame, Sydney.
Speaker 2: You got to blame somebody, the evil person that is
Speaker 2: responsible for your dilemma. And in this case, Carly Russell
Speaker 2: is blaming again a white guy with orange hair. So
Speaker 2: let me understand this. To Mike Hatzel, joining US President,
Speaker 2: founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue at p
Speaker 2: r s R dot org. How much money would a
Speaker 2: search like this? First? Describe the search, because they really
Speaker 2: pulled out all the stops what I was done to
Speaker 2: find Carly Mike Hatzel.
Speaker 8: They're going to pull every resource they can get on
Speaker 8: a resource list in the area into that search that
Speaker 8: they can get because this is the high probability search,
Speaker 8: meaning when you have an abduction or you have a
Speaker 8: predatory abduction and that person is missing or there's a
Speaker 8: child involved, the survivability rate of the victim is less
Speaker 8: than six hours. So we have a time clock where
Speaker 8: we're trying to get to the victim before the perpetrator
Speaker 8: either traffics them out of the area or kills them.
Speaker 8: And so every all hands are on deck at this point,
Speaker 8: everybody's coming in. So a minimum cost on this is
Speaker 8: going to start at half a million dollars and go
Speaker 8: up because of all the resources that are there. When
Speaker 8: I was watching the video on TV, I saw this
Speaker 8: line of law enforcement vehicles that just went on and
Speaker 8: on and on, and you've got helicopters overheads, you've got
Speaker 8: people coming in on overtime. They're calling everybody in that's off,
Speaker 8: and they're they're pounding the ground. They're going to all
Speaker 8: the hotels in the area, all the stores in the area.
Speaker 8: They're they're canvassing the entire area. That takes law enforcement
Speaker 8: person and everybody's there, everybody's out, and so it's very,
Speaker 8: very expensive for these types of searchers.
Speaker 2: Guys, we're talking about Carly Russell, who, as it turns out,
Speaker 2: is a pretty good liar. Karen started joining me, renowned
Speaker 2: psychologist out of Manhattan, trauma and crime expert. You can
Speaker 2: find her at karenstart dot com. That's Karen with a C. Karen,
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You know, many people
Speaker 2: are saying, oh, we should feel sorry for her. I
Speaker 2: do that she would have to go to this link
Speaker 2: to try to get attention, and if she is having
Speaker 2: some sort of dilemma or depression or sadness, that is
Speaker 2: not a legal defense. And I want to point out
Speaker 2: to you, Karen Start, before you answer. She may be
Speaker 2: crazy like a fox because she outwitted everybody, her family,
Speaker 2: her boyfriend that stayed by her, police searchers, people that
Speaker 2: donated nearly seventy grand to help find her. So I
Speaker 2: wouldn't call that crazy.
Speaker 9: Karen Stark, Well, it's not legally crazy like you said, Nancy,
Speaker 9: because she does know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 9: That seems really care to me, because she was able
Speaker 9: to plot everything out, you know, come up with this
Speaker 9: elaborate story, then show up and when you listen to
Speaker 9: her though, you can see that there's something wrong. She
Speaker 9: does have some kind of psychopathology because she's making this
Speaker 9: elaborate story up and it's really so rich in detail.
Speaker 6: She's a victim.
Speaker 9: And the thing about being a victim, I mean when
Speaker 9: you look at her text from before and the things
Speaker 9: that she said, they were inconsistent, they were really very
Speaker 9: self hittying. And here she is now coming up with
Speaker 9: a story where everyone is going to look first for
Speaker 9: a baby and then for her. So there is pathology there.
Speaker 9: But does she know the difference between right and wrong?
Speaker 9: Should we hold her responsible that part? I think legally yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Guys. Take a listen to our cut to our friends
Speaker 2: at Fox ten.
Speaker 15: What happened to Carly Russell Hoover pet says. On Thursday,
Speaker 15: Russell called nine to one one claiming she saw a
Speaker 15: little boy walking on the side of I four fifty
Speaker 15: nine in a diaper that was.
Speaker 5: A toddler three four year old wearing a flight T
Speaker 5: shirt and a diaper.
Speaker 15: According to police, Carly then called a relative to tell
Speaker 15: them she was going to get out and check on
Speaker 15: the baby. The relative says she heard Carly scream and
Speaker 15: then nothing but sounds from the interstate.
Speaker 2: So I want you to take into account the level
Speaker 2: of detail in her nine on one call, but also
Speaker 2: she said the same lie to her own family. Listen
Speaker 2: to cut three, fox ten, just.
Speaker 5: Three of ours, her vehicles on lock, running, all her
Speaker 5: personal belongings, you could set for her phone.
Speaker 15: When police got there, Carly was gone, her Mercedes still running. Friends, family,
Speaker 15: and strangers on the internet did their part to find her,
Speaker 15: and then perhaps a clue.
Speaker 13: Saturday night, Montgomery Highway at the red roofs and family
Speaker 13: members as a flotation saying they received a call from
Speaker 13: the female that's missing.
Speaker 5: Carly Russell.
Speaker 15: Family members say they showed up to knock on doors
Speaker 15: and find her, but she wasn't there.
Speaker 2: Police have used every synonym for a lie. They're saying
Speaker 2: things like, we can't corroborate, we can't confirm, no evidence
Speaker 2: of so forth, and so on, ad nauseum. But what
Speaker 2: it boils down to, is this woman lied sent police
Speaker 2: and volunteers on a wild goose chase to the tune
Speaker 2: of at least a quarter of a million dollars while
Speaker 2: we think she was shocked up somewhere enjoying the attention
Speaker 2: vicariously that she was receiving. With me again, an all
Speaker 2: star panel to make sense of what we know right
Speaker 2: now with me Lee Reeber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO
Speaker 2: of Oxygen Forensics, Inc. An author of mobile forensics investigations,
Speaker 2: also host a podcast, Forensic Happy Hour.
Speaker 4: Lee.
Speaker 2: I believe since her cell phone was left behind, she
Speaker 2: may have had another phone. So how do we go
Speaker 2: about tracking what she was doing in order to make
Speaker 2: a case of perjury?
Speaker 12: Well, you know, it always comes down to you, right
Speaker 12: is your digital life? If you look at all of
Speaker 12: the cases where it turns out that they have been lying,
Speaker 12: it comes down to you know, law enforcement just looking
Speaker 12: at that digital life. And the interesting thing about.
Speaker 9: This or.
Speaker 12: Is in Hoover, Alabama, is the NCFI, which is a
Speaker 12: National Computer Forensic Institute, one of the one of the
Speaker 12: best places to go to learn how to collect digital data.
Speaker 12: So it's probably the wrong place that you're going to
Speaker 12: be lying over your social media, if you're going to
Speaker 12: be utilizing your phone or if you have another phone,
Speaker 12: because quite honestly, they're going to be able to review
Speaker 12: your digital life. They're going to find and locate you
Speaker 12: if you're using another device, if you're just in the area,
Speaker 12: So again, trying to utilize social media. Even prior to this,
Speaker 12: they had a timeline. Once they had that timeline, I'm
Speaker 12: sure that they assumes that came out they had the
Speaker 12: information that she was not telling the truth.
Speaker 2: Not telling the truth, I guess that's one way of
Speaker 2: putting it. Guys. It's happened many times before, but I
Speaker 2: believe in this case we may actually see charges. Take
Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at WZTM and cut fifty
Speaker 2: nine B.
Speaker 3: Brother Eric Guster says he worries this case could affect
Speaker 3: future missing person's cases.
Speaker 10: Is going to be much more difficult for African American
Speaker 10: women to be believed, and it may actually decrease the
Speaker 10: number of actual reports of things because people are already
Speaker 10: afraid that they won't be believed.
Speaker 3: Auguster says, the police chief outlined three crimes that they
Speaker 3: believe Carly has committed. That's that's lying to authorities and
Speaker 3: filing a false police report. He says he is shocked
Speaker 3: that Carly has not been arrested on those charges.
Speaker 2: I'm stunned. We all remember the case of Jesse Smollett.
Speaker 2: Take a listen to this.
Speaker 7: He is like a star books on the show Tire.
Speaker 16: Police body camera video shows the moment officers first arrived
Speaker 16: at Jesse Smolette's apartment after the actor claimed he'd been attacked.
Speaker 16: Smolette still has what appears to be a noose around
Speaker 16: his neck.
Speaker 7: Do you want to take it off for anything?
Speaker 16: At Smolette told police he was assaulted by two masked
Speaker 16: men yelling racist and homophobic slurs. For more than three weeks,
Speaker 16: at least twenty four detectives searched for the two men
Speaker 16: and investigated Smolette's claims.
Speaker 2: Guys, we're talking about Jesse Smilette. He ended up paying
Speaker 2: about one hundred and twenty thousand dollars of restitution. He
Speaker 2: got one hundred and fifty days behind bars for filing
Speaker 2: a false report. To Cheryl McCollum, what exactly went into
Speaker 2: the search for Curly Russell?
Speaker 11: They had air helicopter land, they had people on foot,
Speaker 11: they had canines. They had, you know, her cell phone
Speaker 11: being looked at. They were interviewing family, friends and co workers.
Speaker 11: They pulled everybody off, you know, having days off. This
Speaker 11: was a full court press, every available person, including citizens
Speaker 11: that came to volunteer Nancy. She had the SEI, the
Speaker 11: Secret Service, Hoover Police, Alabama State Police, she had you
Speaker 11: and Crime Online, she had the Today. Think of the
Speaker 11: resources that were given to her and every homicide, true
Speaker 11: missing person, child molization, aggravated assault, domestic violence. They were
Speaker 11: all put on hold to search for her because they
Speaker 11: believed time was of the essence. But I want to
Speaker 11: say something very clearly, she didn't pool everybody. Because you
Speaker 11: and I were talking Saturday and Sundays, we knew it
Speaker 11: was bogus.
Speaker 2: On tay one because it didn't add up. I mean,
Speaker 2: the story didn't make any sense. How many times did
Speaker 2: you and I look at that video scouring it, blowing
Speaker 2: it up, playing in a slow mo. There was no
Speaker 2: boy walking along the side of the interstate. That was
Speaker 2: all a big light. And let me tell you what
Speaker 2: Jesse Smilett got. Take a listen to our cut forty
Speaker 2: four from the Today Show.
Speaker 17: Judge James Lynn sentencing spen led to thirty months felony probation,
Speaker 17: including that jail time. Ordering he paid more than one
Speaker 17: hundred and twenty one thousand dollars in restitution to the
Speaker 17: City of Chicago and pay the maximum fine twenty five
Speaker 17: thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: You've turned your life upside down by her this conduct
Speaker 4: in Shenanigans.
Speaker 2: You've destroyed your life.
Speaker 4: As you knew it.
Speaker 17: As a defiant Smolette was taken into custody last night,
Speaker 17: his family blasting the judge's decision.
Speaker 7: He's the reason why folks aren't going to report hate crimes.
Speaker 14: They're the reason why folks aren't going to report hate crimes.
Speaker 2: No, Smollette, you're the problem, not everybody else. And the
Speaker 2: same thing here, people giving time, energy, blood, sweat and
Speaker 2: tears to find Curly Russell when she's obviously propped up
Speaker 2: somewhere having takeout, watching the news about her own disappearance.
Speaker 2: And then of course there's Jennifer will Banks, the so
Speaker 2: called runaway bride. Now, this wedding was a big shindig
Speaker 2: in high society Atlanta. I mean a lot of money,
Speaker 2: tens one thousands of dollars shelld out for a big
Speaker 2: wedding and poof the bride disappears, she gets quote kidnapped.
Speaker 2: Take a listener to our cut forty seven or nine
Speaker 2: to one one, call I hold, I was I say there?
Speaker 6: I mean I was saying her forties. Maybe it was
Speaker 6: a medium bill.
Speaker 13: I don't know head?
Speaker 7: Do you have black?
Speaker 6: Was it longer?
Speaker 8: Short?
Speaker 14: Short?
Speaker 6: Having a facial hair?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 6: The color SHORKATACKI with you where I want to ask
Speaker 6: on him? He had on a maroon jacking and I
Speaker 6: don't know what color? Sure under the color he now
Speaker 6: boy teens and looking of vehicle with you braving It
Speaker 6: was a boy's van like a work band. Was it
Speaker 6: a convergon banner as minigan?
Speaker 7: It wasn't a median.
Speaker 6: It was like a like a paint, like a painter
Speaker 6: work band. What direction did they leave in?
Speaker 4: I don't I have no idea run I know where.
Speaker 2: I am, Dear Lord in heaven shell not do you
Speaker 2: hear that? It sounds like Carl Russell at her elaborate
Speaker 2: lie about this little barefoot boy wearing a diaper that
Speaker 2: she's trying desperately to say, yet not getting out of
Speaker 2: her car. Did you hear that hispanic males, short hair,
Speaker 2: no facial hair, a maroon jacket, blue jeans, a blue van,
Speaker 2: but no, not a conversion or a mini van. It
Speaker 2: was a paint work van. I mean, this woman had
Speaker 2: so many details. I mean, was she just running this
Speaker 2: like a movie in her head?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 14: I don't know. You know, when you start looking at
Speaker 14: the stories that people tell about what happened to them,
Speaker 14: one of the things that you focus on is their
Speaker 14: ability to recall selective details, details.
Speaker 2: That benefit them.
Speaker 14: But they don't recall details that may put a whole
Speaker 14: in their story or that may bring things into question.
Speaker 14: And that's exactly what you have. Here's what you haven't
Speaker 14: called the Russell's case. And you know that's a major
Speaker 14: tip off for investigators.
Speaker 2: You know, Cheryl, I'm surprised you could keep all those
Speaker 2: facts straight, but she did. The level of detail is rich.
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: Now, I know that you, Cheryl, and everyone on our
Speaker 2: panel has heard the name Jesse Smolette. You've heard about
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wilbanks, a so called runaway bride. But what about
Speaker 2: Nicholas Rossi and Nicholas Avederian. Take a listen to our
Speaker 2: cut forty nine WFLA.
Speaker 18: Nicholas Alvertian crave fame and founded as a self proclaimed
Speaker 18: crusader for children's rights. He's now locked up in a
Speaker 18: Scottish prison facing extradition on a rape charge, eighteen years
Speaker 18: after he claimed he was sexually assaulted in Bradenton.
Speaker 2: Wipeyden Blood Nicholas.
Speaker 18: Alvertian talked in dramatic terms with me a decade ago
Speaker 18: about this federal lawsuit that named several defendants, including the
Speaker 18: Florida Agency for Healthcare Administration. In two thousand and four,
Speaker 18: a teenaged Alavertian was placed in a Bradenton children' psychiatric
Speaker 18: hospital by Rhode Island's version of DCF. He alleged he
Speaker 18: was assaulted within the first two weeks of the placement
Speaker 18: in Florida and abused in other facilities in other states.
Speaker 18: According to the lawsuit that ended with an undisclosed settlement,
Speaker 18: he not.
Speaker 2: Only faked sex assaults, he faked his disappearance and did
Speaker 2: a really good job at it as well. And then,
Speaker 2: of course we've got the Queen of fake disappearances, Sherry Peppini.
Speaker 2: Take a listen, our friend Matt Gutman and our cut
Speaker 2: thirty eight from GMA.
Speaker 19: In November of twenty sixteen, Sherry Peppini vanished for twenty
Speaker 19: two days. Then on Thanksgiving morning, she materialized on a
Speaker 19: highway nearly one hundred and fifty miles from home, a
Speaker 19: trucker stopping and calling nine one one for her. That
Speaker 19: call her for the first time this morning.
Speaker 8: Hey, what's turning? You're chained up?
Speaker 6: She's chained up?
Speaker 2: Yes, she said she was chained up, beaten, branded like
Speaker 2: you see on TV, branding cattle. And it turns out
Speaker 2: she was hold up with her boyfriend the whole time
Speaker 2: and actually tortured herself. Hard to believe, but it happened.
Speaker 2: Karen Starr, that was a lot to swallow that she
Speaker 2: would brand herself, break her own tooth, beat herself, but
Speaker 2: she did, and she admitted to it.
Speaker 9: Nat she think about the amounts of attention she was
Speaker 9: able to get and how exciting that must have been
Speaker 9: with her for her, I mean, here she is, she's
Speaker 9: with her boyfriend and able to get everybody sterracal about
Speaker 9: what happened to her. And that's narcissism to the highest
Speaker 9: degree that you could think of.
Speaker 2: Well, slow down, narcissism, explain.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, that's somebody who is so involved with themselves,
Speaker 9: so much above the law that they could go to
Speaker 9: that kind of extent to make sure that people see
Speaker 9: them as a victim and worry about them. And that's
Speaker 9: intention to speed on what's going on. It makes them
Speaker 9: really feel loved and wanted.
Speaker 2: What I'm trying to figure out is why there hasn't
Speaker 2: been an arrest. Savannah sapp joining us from waff forty eight, Alabama.
Speaker 2: They are handling her with kid gloves, and I understand
Speaker 2: sympathy or empathy for her, wondering what drove her to
Speaker 2: do this, But the reality is is regardless of her
Speaker 2: depression or sadness or desire for attention, whatever it may be,
Speaker 2: she lied in a police report, lied to detectives, and
Speaker 2: obstructive justice. Those are three charges that have yet to
Speaker 2: be leveled against her. What is happening, Savannah.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I would certainly, you know, believe that
Speaker 7: that is under discussion amongst the District Attorney's office and
Speaker 7: her return. You know, just with this statement quote unquote
Speaker 7: statement from Carly through her attorney coming through, you know,
Speaker 7: I think that was an effort to try and alleviate
Speaker 7: any sort of accusations or charges coming Carly's way. And
Speaker 7: I also just very quickly. I want to kind of
Speaker 7: pear it what Cheryl said earlier. You know, she not
Speaker 7: only took a lot of time from investigators, but you
Speaker 7: also have to look at it from a media standpoint.
Speaker 7: We had all hands on deck sharing Carly's story from
Speaker 7: all over the state. The whole state of Alabama was
Speaker 7: sharing her story is as well as national headlines. So
Speaker 7: not that you know she would be responsible for our coverage,
Speaker 7: but that's just something else to think of when you're
Speaker 7: talking about all of the resources that were I mean.
Speaker 2: The moment I heard the story heard about her disappearance,
Speaker 2: we immediately put it as the lead at crime online
Speaker 2: dot Com and put it out on social media over
Speaker 2: and over and over to get attention and get the
Speaker 2: tip line out there for people to help find Carly.
Speaker 2: We contacted people in Alabama involved in the search to
Speaker 2: try to find out what was happening and how we
Speaker 2: could help. All the whiles, Cheryl McCollum, there are real
Speaker 2: victims of real crimes that need our help. I'm not
Speaker 2: as worried about the media, but I'm more worried about people.
Speaker 2: I remember working long nights, weekends on Easter, on Thanksgiving,
Speaker 2: on my so called vacation with my family, working, cases, working, working.
Speaker 2: If I found out later that the victim was lying,
Speaker 2: I would be so deflated.
Speaker 11: Nancy again, the resources that she took from actual victims
Speaker 11: is astonishing. But I tell you what, they need to
Speaker 11: be concerned about who's next. If you do not send
Speaker 11: a message that we are not going to put up
Speaker 11: with hoaxes and lies and outright premeditated crime, then what
Speaker 11: are we doing in the DA's offer.
Speaker 2: You know, just want people to understand what a search
Speaker 2: like this entails, mud, rain, dirt, long hours, twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven, looking worried, dealing with the victims' families who
Speaker 2: are all distraught. I mean, can you imagine if you
Speaker 2: thought your child was missing. Mike Hassel, You've been through
Speaker 2: it all. Mike Castle, president founder Peace River Canine Search
Speaker 2: and Rescue, Explain the blood, sweat and tears it goes
Speaker 2: into a search like this.
Speaker 8: Well, the one factor nobody's talking about is the incredible
Speaker 8: heat that we're dealing with this year. And I just
Speaker 8: came off a search where we were out last night
Speaker 8: and the heat injuries were unreal. We lose four or
Speaker 8: five people going down from heat exhaustion and heat stroke.
Speaker 8: And the dogs are crapping out after thirty minutes because
Speaker 8: they're just cooked. And there's a lot of resources that
Speaker 8: go into having to keep the people up. You can
Speaker 8: get a searcher out there that can work for an hour,
Speaker 8: maybe maybe an hour and a half if you're lucky,
Speaker 8: but then they're down for two hours because they got
Speaker 8: to cool off and get ready. The same thing with
Speaker 8: the dogs. You can get them for twenty minutes, and
Speaker 8: then Zog has to rest for fifty minutes because he's
Speaker 8: got a cool down before you can go back out.
Speaker 8: So there's a lot of injuries involved here, snakes and
Speaker 8: UNEs and you know all kinds of stuff that goes
Speaker 8: on that, and especially for volunteers, because you know, we volunteer.
Speaker 8: We go out wet, we help a law enforcement on
Speaker 8: these searches, but we have to cover our own expenses
Speaker 8: and we have to cover our own health insurance. So
Speaker 8: we get injured, it's on us.
Speaker 2: Then there is a Chloe Stine, and I bring her
Speaker 2: up because she's about the same age as Carly Russell.
Speaker 2: She faked in her own abduction. Who does she blame
Speaker 2: a fake cop? I guess she was running out of
Speaker 2: people to blame. I want you to take a listen
Speaker 2: hour cut thirty seven. Our friends from WTAA regarding Chloe
Speaker 2: Stine say.
Speaker 20: Police say she created an entire scenario to make people
Speaker 20: think she had been abducted by someone posing as a
Speaker 20: police officer on her way home from work Monday night.
Speaker 20: That set off a massive search effort yesterday afternoon, police
Speaker 20: estimating the entire ordeal costing thousands, if not tens of
Speaker 20: thousands of dollars. Stein was found not far from her
Speaker 20: home yesterday evening. Police say at first she told them
Speaker 20: she was abducted, held at gunpoint, and then released. Eventually.
Speaker 20: Court documents they client admitted to never being in danger
Speaker 20: and making the whole thing up.
Speaker 2: I don't think I really did. Cherry Peppinie Justice take
Speaker 2: a listen to cut twenty seven GMA.
Speaker 19: In November of twenty sixteen, Sherry Peppini vanished for twenty
Speaker 19: two days. Then on Thanksgiving morning, she materialized on a
Speaker 19: highway nearly one hundred and fifty miles from home, a
Speaker 19: trucker stopping and calling nine one one for her. That
Speaker 19: call her for the first time this morning.
Speaker 8: Hey, what's turning? We're you're chained up.
Speaker 6: She's chained up.
Speaker 2: I really don't know how Matt Gutman and our friend
Speaker 2: from ABC kept a straight face on this. Take a
Speaker 2: listen to cut forty.
Speaker 19: It wasn't until more than three years later that trace
Speaker 19: DNA found on Peppini led to this mystery man ex
Speaker 19: boyfriend James Reyes, who admitted he helped Peppinie inflict those
Speaker 19: injuries on herself.
Speaker 8: So there's a brand on her.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's significant bruising.
Speaker 2: And she did while she was here.
Speaker 14: I mean, she just hit herself with.
Speaker 2: Something held her.
Speaker 5: I mean I didn't pinch her anything.
Speaker 2: Help you just shot the bug off her, lady. The
Speaker 2: extremes that Peppinie went to to fake her abduction. But
Speaker 2: how are we going to figure out the truth here?
Speaker 2: How are we going to determine what happened to Carly
Speaker 2: Russell during those days that she was missing and we
Speaker 2: were all doing summersaults to help find her. You know,
Speaker 2: to you, Lee Reebert, what's the best way of finding
Speaker 2: out where Curly Russell was during those forty nine hours?
Speaker 12: You know, I think the important thing if we look
Speaker 12: at the Teamy case, they got a lot of the
Speaker 12: leads from call records, right, they found out that she
Speaker 12: was calling some friends or some boyfriends, and I think
Speaker 12: in this case too, it might come down to that.
Speaker 12: I'm sure that they're still going over phone records. We
Speaker 12: had this whole red red mouth in who did she call?
Speaker 12: You know, did she call someone? Was there additional people?
Speaker 12: They're going to look at them, maybe the phones or
Speaker 12: the family members of boyfriends. I look at those records
Speaker 12: to see if any phone numbers from a red robin
Speaker 12: or unknown number had come in. So I think they're
Speaker 12: still going to be some investigation into that, and I believe,
Speaker 12: you know, I would think that they're going to bring
Speaker 12: someone else in that had knowledge for disappear.
Speaker 2: You know. Another issue. Cheryl McCollum joining us from Zone
Speaker 2: seven podcast. Cheryl, there have been allegations that she had
Speaker 2: sent messages while she was missing to the bo boyfriend.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that I believe that because the boyfriend
Speaker 2: was so distraught and I think he was genuine trying
Speaker 2: to find her. If he was getting messages from her,
Speaker 2: that would indicate he knew she was alive. I don't
Speaker 2: think that. But we've seen very often people use cell
Speaker 2: phones right as if there's someone else texting, like potentially
Speaker 2: her abductor, texting family or friends, taunting them about what
Speaker 2: could happen to her. I think we're going to find
Speaker 2: a digital trail. I think we're going to find a
Speaker 2: food trail, and I think we're going to find eyewitnesses.
Speaker 11: I don't think the police are done with anybody. I
Speaker 11: think they're going to keep interviewing people. He keeps putting
Speaker 11: statements out. The first statement that he ever put out
Speaker 11: seeing the little self serving, it was more about him
Speaker 11: than it was her. Again, I don't think he showed
Speaker 11: any real fear. He was thanking teammates and telling everybody
Speaker 11: he's doing this for her, and she would do the same.
Speaker 11: He's put out another statement where he using words like us, we,
Speaker 11: and with so. Again, the police are going to keep
Speaker 11: talking to people, whether it's her cousins, her good friends,
Speaker 11: or her ex boyfriends. Did she have any help and
Speaker 11: did anybody know that this was a hoax before she
Speaker 11: came clean?
Speaker 2: We wait as just as un false. If you have
Speaker 2: information or think you have information, dial two zero five
Speaker 2: eight two two fifty three hundred. Goodbye friend,