WEBVTT - Missing Carlee Russell: 'I Lied!' 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.680 Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:21.479 It's all a lie, a fabrication as some people call it. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.799 It's an outright lie. As many of you legal eagles 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.280 had already figured out through your sleuthing and just playing 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:33.479 common sense, Carly Russell is a big liar. Take a 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:34.600 listen to this. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.240 But the question is where was she for those forty 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.520 nine hours? She said she stayed ends Hoover the entire 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.120 time and no one helped her. So where was she 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:44.400 for those forty nine hours? 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:46.120 Where did she sleep? Where did she stay? 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.400 How did she leave that area where she abandoned her 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.440 red Mercedes sedan? Now a lot of questions left unanswered. 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.400 We also asked about potential charges and the chief told 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.320 us they're looking into that. Prosecutors looking into what charges 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.200 could be found against her, and then they'll decide whether 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:03.680 those charges will be filed. 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.560 You're hearing our friends at WVTM with me an all 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.680 star panel to make sense of what we know right now. 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.480 But for those of you just joining us on the 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.840 story of twenty five year old Carly Russell, who says 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.160 that she is only trying to render a to a 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.480 top boy walking along the interstate wearing nothing but a 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:27.320 diaper and a shirt. Then she goes missing for forty 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:32.679 nine hours, throwing her family and the Hoover PD into 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.919 chaos as they search for her literally around the clock. 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.959 People donating nearly seventy thousand dollars to help find her, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.760 one anonymous donor giving twenty five grand. They're not getting 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.840 any of that money back. The boyfriend that defended her 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.680 to the hilt has now broken up with her and 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:58.480 says quote, I'm disgusted. Well, I second that emotion. Guys, 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.880 I want you to hear what the chief of the 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.160 Hoover PD has to say in our cup fifty four. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.240 Mister Anthony asked that I read the statement in its entirety, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.720 which I will do now. My client has given me 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.840 permission to make the following statement on her behalf. There 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.480 was no kidnapping on Thursday July nineteen thirteenth, twenty twenty three. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.519 My client did not see a baby on the side 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.920 of the road. My client did not leave the Hoovaria 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.960 which she was identified as a missing person. My client 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.160 did not have any help in this incident, but this 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.880 was a single act done by herself. My client was 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.520 not with anyone but any hotel with anyone from the 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:32.359 time she was missing. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.520 Okay, let me understand that that is Chief Nick Durvis 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:40.399 from the Hoover PDE reading a statement of a lawyer 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.680 who has been given a statement by Curly Russell. Woman, 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.600 get out there and apologize yourself for Pete's sake. But 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.640 you're hearing from Curly Russell through her a lawyer, through 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.119 the chief. But I want you to hear this too. 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.919 Now you hear the Chief saying there was no base, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.160 there was no one in danger. I was never missing. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.440 Now take a listen to our cut seven, the nine 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.440 to one to one call. Listen to how Rich in detail, it. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.639 Is four forty two for seventy one, forty two, seventy one, 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.280 it's gonna be forty nine south, my marker ten. It's 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.680 gonna be a child walking on the three four year 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.760 old child walking on the side of the interstate next 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.400 to her. Harpe's going to be close behind the red 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.000 stad sedan with the hazards on. Child's going to be 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.959 a white male wearing a white T shirt and a 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:38.040 diaper forty from Wick and for forty two. Harpi's advising 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.520 there's no cars in the areas. The child's been abandoned 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.040 on the side of the ridge. For one, you still 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.600 a little phone negative. But she's said that she would 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.040 stand by for police. Forty two call rpback, She's not 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:51.760 at their vehicle. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.480 Now remember police got to the scene in about four 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:56.839 minutes after that nine more month call. Now let's listen 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.640 to Carly Russell in her own words the detail I 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.320 was mentioning earlier in our cut thirteen. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:04.360 Now one one, where's the records? 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:04.520 Say? 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.839 Hi, I am on Interstate four fifty nine and there 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.200 is a kid just walking by their selves. Oh, hold on, 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.160 hold on? Where where I'm fourth down? 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:15.480 Are you? 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.839 I'm right next to the exit exit ten by the 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.200 couver mitt like to get off by. 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:22.640 The hooper mit. 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.000 Okay, so you're before that exit, yes, okay? And where 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:31.520 you're headed southbound or northbound to toward to eighty fort 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.320 Tuscalusive okay? And was the child on the western right side, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.600 on the right side where they walk on northbound or 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.640 south down? They're walking towards Tuscalusave walking southbound? 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.560 Did you hear that detail? Oh there's more. Listen to 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:46.960 cup fourteen or how old? 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.839 Did they look like a toddlers? 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:50.000 Like? 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.480 Maybe like three or four? Did you pull over with them? A? 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:54.320 Are you still with them? 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:55.080 Yes? 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.120 Okay you're Are you with the child right now? 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:58.320 No, I'm not. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:04:59.320 I didn't get out of the car. 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.280 I'm I can see them, though. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.920 Can you do you mind staying and keep an eye 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.880 on them until we get there? Yeah? Yeah, sure, yeah? Okay? 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.039 What kind of car are you in? I'm in a 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.839 red Mercedes Ben and that a Sadana ORCV SUV. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.159 I mean it's a Sedan story. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:17.760 Can you put your hazards off for me? 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:18.320 Yeah? 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:18.640 They're on? 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.560 Okay. Did you talk to the child on or did 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.279 you say anything to know? Okay? 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:23.560 No? 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.000 Do they look like they're injured? No, they don't. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.120 I love listening to this. I w one one call 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.400 because I know every word she says is a big 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.200 fat lie. And can you imagine her in her red 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.920 Mercedes at night conjuring up this lie? And it's intricate detail. 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:42.920 Listen to more cut fifteen. 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.479 Are they wife like a Senak or amyl? They're white 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.239 as a male or female? I think it's a boy, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.200 a little boy, I'm right now. Okay. Is he wearing clothes? 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:51.680 Yeah? 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:52.240 Okay? 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.479 What is he wearing? It's a white T shirt. And 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.440 it doesn't look like he has any pants on. It 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.719 looks like a diaper. And you don't see any cars 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:04.360 any no, no cause anywhere? Okay, all right, what's your name? 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.280 My name is Carl Russell. And you don't see any 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.200 injuries on the shop from where you're at, correct? No, no, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.200 But I can't really see them that good, okay, And 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:13.800 try to keep an eye on them for the best 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.400 big can, because I don't want you to lose track 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:19.000 of them. And do they have shoes on? No, not 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.320 that I can be. I can't really see that. Look 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.720 all right, I've got them on the way. Okay, just 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.440 try to say, keep an eye on them, but officers 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.480 are on the way, okay, Okay, say. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.520 Man, she's such a good samaritan. A good samaritan that 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.280 costs the taxpayers, that says about five hundred thousand dollars 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.520 and costs well wishers and those who want to help 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.679 nearly seventy thousand dollars in donations that they're not going 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.919 to get back with me an all star panel. But 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.520 can I first go to Cheryl McCollum, founder director of 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.400 the Cold Case Research Institute, Star of Zone seven, A 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.320 hitting you podcast, and you can find her at coldcasecrimes 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.960 dot org. Cheryl. Really, he's wearing nothing but a diaper, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.080 and I can't tell if he has on any shoes. 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.200 And he's a white male, about three or four years old. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:08.720 And I'm so worried. I'm so worried. The I'm not 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.800 getting out of my car, of course, but i am worried. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.400 And I'm going to follow him for six hundred yards 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.680 in my car, that six football fields as I try. Boy, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.680 that little tot should be in the Olympics if it 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.200 can go that fast in nothing but a diaper and barefoot. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.440 I mean, the story reaped on day one. That's why 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.880 I didn't cover it exactly on day one because it 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.920 was a lie. He was obviously a lie. And we 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:38.880 have actual people that are really missing, being raped, being 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.960 sex traffick, being killed, and here's this girl making up 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.600 a whole big deal because what I just want somebody 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.160 to love me, really get online. Woman, There are millions 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.520 of people out there that will love you. But why 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.080 do this? What about this statement on nine one one? 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.040 You make excellent points, but let's hope for a second 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.800 about what we don't hear her say. We don't hear 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.800 her say please hurry. We don't hear her say help. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.880 We don't hear her say I'm going to go out 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:07.920 and try to save him so that he doesn't. 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:08.880 Get into the expressway. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.320 She's just in her car, chilling, and she's only answering questions. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.200 She didn't offer the description. She didn't offer that he 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.080 wasn't hurt. She didn't offer she was asked those things. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.080 The only truthful statement she says in the whole thing 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.480 is when she says, yeah, I can't really see that's 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:28.880 the truth. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.520 Yeah. Well, now we're just trying to figure out what 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.239 really happened during those days. And I've got a pretty 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.720 good idea that she was holed up in something akin 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.840 to a red roof in And I'll tell you why. Guys, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.120 take to listen to our cut sixteen. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.520 Unclassified Complaints fourteen sixty six Montgomery Highway at the red 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.360 roofs in the front office for caller. Family members at 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.960 this location saying they received a call from the female 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.720 that's missing, Carly Russell. Fifty four family members are saying 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.400 they received a call from the female thing she without 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:05.520 this location. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.520 Born around six and the responding units, I just spoke 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.680 with the front desk clothes. They said that the family 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.959 is not being on style or anything like that, but 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.559 that there was about six car loads of people that 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.000 have just shown up over the five four coffee. Did 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.760 the front desk I have anybody checked in under that name? Negative? 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:29.600 And according to the front desk, the message that the 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.400 family got did not state which red roof in. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.600 Well, I know this. This is fourteen sixty six Montgomery 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.439 Highway at the Red roof in. That's where the family 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.560 went and nobody was checked in under that name, which 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.280 gives me a very strong indication that she was checked 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.200 in there. What ordering room service and watching pay per 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.240 view under the name We've been given one name. I 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.080 don't know if it's correct or not, Shinquela Bronx. Is 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.720 that real? Is that what she was doing while people 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.319 were scouring the high ways and the woods and the 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:25.400 ravines for her and some tatboy. 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.000 Time stories with Nancy Grace. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:25.160 Savannah Sap multimedia journalist reporter WAFF forty eight in Bama. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.359 You can find her on Twitter at Savannah Sap sapp 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.760 Savannah what and the Hey if this girl is snugged 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.080 up in a king sized bed with ac on low, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.120 ordering room service and watching pay per view while everyone 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.160 is tearing their hair out trying to find her. I'm 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.960 going to do a backflip. A backflip, Savannah Sap. What 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:46.440 do we know? 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:52.199 It's honestly confusing to say the least. You know, her 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.360 statement that was written to an attorney and given to 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.760 police through the attorney claims that she was not at 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.560 a hotel. But you have all of these people who 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:10.480 are commenting against that, and you have screenshots of you know, 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.120 family members and friends of hers texting each other saying, yes, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.280 she was absolutely at a red roof in. You know, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.160 it's again, it's confusing, to say the least. And if 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.200 she was hold up at a red roof in while 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.319 you know, hundreds of thousands of people are wondering where 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:32.040 she is, if she's even alive, I think that says 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.600 a lot about the testament of her character. 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.680 Well, of course, you can't go to jail for telling 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.760 a lie unless you're under oath. And I was just 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.400 pointing out this morning about thirty minutes ago. Correct me 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.800 if I'm wrong, shell Nut with me. James shell nutt, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.040 high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Alabama with 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.960 the shell Nut Law firm. But listen to this twenty 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:59.079 seven years metro major case as a cop, including SWAT, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:05.880 that's not easy. Former prosecutor, he actually prosecuted false report cases. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.720 You know what, I had so many felonies coming on 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.640 my ears. I didn't even bother with the lies and 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.400 the false report shell Nut. But I'm glad to know 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.560 that I've got an expert that did do it. You 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.440 know what, that reminds me of shell Nuck DUI cases. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.480 I never handled straight out DUI cases. By the time 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.000 I got them, somebody was dead. It was a habitual 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.040 violator where you have five or more DUIs, there have 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.079 been a vehicular homicide. That's when I would get a DUI. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.160 I wouldn't get a flat out plane old misdemeanor d UI. 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.559 And you know what, there's an art to proving a DUI. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.440 You've got to know all the ins and outs of 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.920 blood alcohol, the rights whether you take a breathalyzer or 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.280 don't take a breath. I mean, he's actually very complicated 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.520 to get all those hoops, and defendants can win if 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.640 the prosecutor doesn't know all the ins and outs of 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.800 prosecuting a dui, same thing with a false report. It's true, 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:05.280 show Nutt that at the bottom of every police report 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.360 there are words to the effect I swear and a 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.480 test under penalty of perjury that all the information that 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.480 I have given is true. Isn't that at the bottom 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.960 of every police report form? 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.040 Oh, it absolutely is. And it's because you are about 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.000 to alert law enforcement to a situation that you know 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.359 that they are going to spend time and resources investigating. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.559 And it gives you an opportunity to think twice about 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:31.360 what you just said. 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.719 It's perjury. Perjury is a crime. Now I want to 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:43.439 point out that Curly Russell is being handled with kid gloves. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:49.360 Other people in her situation have gone to jail for this. 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:55.920 Think about Jesse Smilett, Sherry Peppini, Jennifer Wilbanks. It's so 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:02.839 called runaway bride, Chloe Dye. But you know another thing 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.480 when it comes to those cases, those people always had 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.680 a culprit. Carly Russell has a white guy with orange 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.320 hair and a ball spot and a woman she never saw, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.600 and a baby crying in the background that fed her 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.080 cheese its and played with her hair. The woman said 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.800 that she said about the woman, that's part of her story, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:28.720 Smolett blamed uh didn't he say, white guys wearing maga hats, okay, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.360 when it turned out to be the two Osendaro brothers 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:38.200 his friends. Let's see Sherry Pepini blamed two unidentified Hispanic women, 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.640 and she proceeded to starve and brand herself and beat 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.440 herself up and snug up with her boyfriend for I've 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.120 forgotten how many weeks and showed up much like Carly 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:52.520 Russell on foot on Thanksgiving Day. Let's see where am I? 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.160 There's Small Wilbanks, Jennifer Willelbanks, the runaway bride. She blamed 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.920 I guess basically a group of his Spanish males that 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.640 kidnapped her, assaulted her on the eve of her wedding. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.440 And then we've got Chloe Stein. She didn't want her 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.720 family to know she wasn't going to graduate from college, 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.760 so she faked an abduction. Who does she blame, Sydney. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.840 You got to blame somebody, the evil person that is 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:26.080 responsible for your dilemma. And in this case, Carly Russell 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.880 is blaming again a white guy with orange hair. So 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.840 let me understand this. To Mike Hatzel, joining US President, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.840 founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue at p 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:43.200 r s R dot org. How much money would a 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.920 search like this? First? Describe the search, because they really 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.840 pulled out all the stops what I was done to 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.880 find Carly Mike Hatzel. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.040 They're going to pull every resource they can get on 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.840 a resource list in the area into that search that 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.600 they can get because this is the high probability search, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.560 meaning when you have an abduction or you have a 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.720 predatory abduction and that person is missing or there's a 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.280 child involved, the survivability rate of the victim is less 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.520 than six hours. So we have a time clock where 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.400 we're trying to get to the victim before the perpetrator 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.000 either traffics them out of the area or kills them. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.720 And so every all hands are on deck at this point, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.280 everybody's coming in. So a minimum cost on this is 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.320 going to start at half a million dollars and go 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:37.320 up because of all the resources that are there. When 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.800 I was watching the video on TV, I saw this 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.120 line of law enforcement vehicles that just went on and 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.200 on and on, and you've got helicopters overheads, you've got 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.800 people coming in on overtime. They're calling everybody in that's off, 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.520 and they're they're pounding the ground. They're going to all 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.120 the hotels in the area, all the stores in the area. 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.600 They're they're canvassing the entire area. That takes law enforcement 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:04.119 person and everybody's there, everybody's out, and so it's very, 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.840 very expensive for these types of searchers. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.960 Guys, we're talking about Carly Russell, who, as it turns out, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.040 is a pretty good liar. Karen started joining me, renowned 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.560 psychologist out of Manhattan, trauma and crime expert. You can 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.359 find her at karenstart dot com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.119 thank you for being with us. You know, many people 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.040 are saying, oh, we should feel sorry for her. I 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.520 do that she would have to go to this link 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.400 to try to get attention, and if she is having 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:40.720 some sort of dilemma or depression or sadness, that is 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.119 not a legal defense. And I want to point out 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.080 to you, Karen Start, before you answer. She may be 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:51.160 crazy like a fox because she outwitted everybody, her family, 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.879 her boyfriend that stayed by her, police searchers, people that 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.879 donated nearly seventy grand to help find her. So I 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.320 wouldn't call that crazy. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.640 Karen Stark, Well, it's not legally crazy like you said, Nancy, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.080 because she does know the difference between right and wrong. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.720 That seems really care to me, because she was able 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.399 to plot everything out, you know, come up with this 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.720 elaborate story, then show up and when you listen to 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.520 her though, you can see that there's something wrong. She 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.480 does have some kind of psychopathology because she's making this 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:34.320 elaborate story up and it's really so rich in detail. 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:35.640 She's a victim. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.960 And the thing about being a victim, I mean when 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.800 you look at her text from before and the things 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.120 that she said, they were inconsistent, they were really very 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:50.080 self hittying. And here she is now coming up with 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.320 a story where everyone is going to look first for 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:57.960 a baby and then for her. So there is pathology there. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.800 But does she know the difference between right and wrong? 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:07.800 Should we hold her responsible that part? I think legally yes, absolutely. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:09.800 Guys. Take a listen to our cut to our friends 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:10.640 at Fox ten. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.000 What happened to Carly Russell Hoover pet says. On Thursday, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.080 Russell called nine to one one claiming she saw a 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.040 little boy walking on the side of I four fifty 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:22.840 nine in a diaper that was. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.320 A toddler three four year old wearing a flight T 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:27.719 shirt and a diaper. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.080 According to police, Carly then called a relative to tell 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.600 them she was going to get out and check on 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.440 the baby. The relative says she heard Carly scream and 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.600 then nothing but sounds from the interstate. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.959 So I want you to take into account the level 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.359 of detail in her nine on one call, but also 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.600 she said the same lie to her own family. Listen 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.200 to cut three, fox ten, just. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.919 Three of ours, her vehicles on lock, running, all her 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:57.880 personal belongings, you could set for her phone. 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:03.560 When police got there, Carly was gone, her Mercedes still running. Friends, family, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.600 and strangers on the internet did their part to find her, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:08.520 and then perhaps a clue. 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.880 Saturday night, Montgomery Highway at the red roofs and family 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.600 members as a flotation saying they received a call from 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.120 the female that's missing. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:17.639 Carly Russell. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.159 Family members say they showed up to knock on doors 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.320 and find her, but she wasn't there. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:28.199 Police have used every synonym for a lie. They're saying 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.920 things like, we can't corroborate, we can't confirm, no evidence 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.720 of so forth, and so on, ad nauseum. But what 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.280 it boils down to, is this woman lied sent police 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.080 and volunteers on a wild goose chase to the tune 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.800 of at least a quarter of a million dollars while 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.360 we think she was shocked up somewhere enjoying the attention 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.680 vicariously that she was receiving. With me again, an all 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:57.720 star panel to make sense of what we know right 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.960 now with me Lee Reeber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:08.440 of Oxygen Forensics, Inc. An author of mobile forensics investigations, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.879 also host a podcast, Forensic Happy Hour. 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:12.560 Lee. 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:18.080 I believe since her cell phone was left behind, she 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.600 may have had another phone. So how do we go 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.760 about tracking what she was doing in order to make 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:28.160 a case of perjury? 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.600 Well, you know, it always comes down to you, right 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.320 is your digital life? If you look at all of 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.800 the cases where it turns out that they have been lying, 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.200 it comes down to you know, law enforcement just looking 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.600 at that digital life. And the interesting thing about. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:43.920 This or. 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.240 Is in Hoover, Alabama, is the NCFI, which is a 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.359 National Computer Forensic Institute, one of the one of the 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.560 best places to go to learn how to collect digital data. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.080 So it's probably the wrong place that you're going to 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.399 be lying over your social media, if you're going to 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.280 be utilizing your phone or if you have another phone, 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.560 because quite honestly, they're going to be able to review 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.880 your digital life. They're going to find and locate you 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.040