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Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to this bonus episode of Ruthy's Table four.

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Speaker 2: The question that I always ask people who have worked

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Speaker 2: here for a while is do you remember your first day?

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Speaker 2: And so I thought today it would be really interesting

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Speaker 2: to hear from two people, our executive chef, Sean Owen

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Speaker 2: and Joseph Travelli, about their first day and how they

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Speaker 2: think about somebody coming to work now on what will

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Speaker 2: be their first day. Sean, do you remember your first day?

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Speaker 3: I remember coming from my interview, I remember meeting you,

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Speaker 3: but Rose interviewed me, and I've been very lost because

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to find the River Cafe.

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Speaker 4: You get lost, don't they.

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Speaker 2: So if you can find it, then you're probably that's

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Speaker 2: a step.

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Speaker 3: Exactly Road saying, I'll teach you to cook. I'll teach

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Speaker 3: you how to cup protuto to the perfect thickness, I'll

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Speaker 3: teach you how to cook beans to the perfect cookness. And

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Speaker 3: I'd come from working for another chef called Darren Simpson,

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Speaker 3: who you who also worked for you, guys, didn't he

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Speaker 3: and he had sent me he was moving to Australia.

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Speaker 3: And he sent me here because he was like, I

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Speaker 3: know the perfect place that will really suit you. You

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Speaker 3: should got work for Rose and Ruth. Well he actually

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Speaker 3: said Auntie Rose and Auntie Ruth. And so then I

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Speaker 3: got my first trial day, and I remember THEO Randall

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Speaker 3: was on because he was a head chef at the time,

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Speaker 3: and he gave me four jobs, which I would never

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Speaker 3: give anyone on their first day. It even crossed my mind, Riberliza,

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Speaker 3: I'll just choke Fritty Cavalonierro Puree and dragon Cella Sauce

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Speaker 3: or an r one of those. And I was working

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Speaker 3: so hard to get all that done, and I remember

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Speaker 3: just being on my nerve for shift, and I remember

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Speaker 3: Rose standing in the kitchen by the window and telling

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Speaker 3: me that she gave me a job that afternoon. Whereas

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Speaker 3: now we would give people much more than more than

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Speaker 3: a couple of hours.

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Speaker 2: They we believe to show pretty dragon Chillo, and they

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Speaker 2: did it.

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Speaker 4: Well might say, don't let this.

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Speaker 2: Girl out of the front door.

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Speaker 4: We're keeping her.

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Speaker 3: But nowadays would never get someone that much to do.

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Speaker 3: So you came in what year, December ninety.

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Speaker 5: Nine, and so then I came in January two than one,

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Speaker 5: so a year later. And in this year in between

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Speaker 5: when Shanna started here, I started working for your ex

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Speaker 5: head chef called Darren who'd emigrated to Sydney. And I

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Speaker 5: worked with him in Sydney for a year and then

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Speaker 5: he sent me here as well. You know, which would

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Speaker 5: be my dream. You know, I was addicted to The

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Speaker 5: Italian Kitchen on television.

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Speaker 2: The Italian Kitchen is a program that we did for

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Speaker 2: Channel four. ISTI rose and I two seasons. I think

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Speaker 2: one season was in London, and I think we did

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Speaker 2: a season when we went to Italy. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I just remember being about twenty two or something or

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Speaker 5: watching it and it was just so stylish and the

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Speaker 5: food just looked so good. And I remember asking. I

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Speaker 5: worked with this guy called Steve Harriet's actually has become

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Speaker 5: a very very successful famous chef in the meantime. But

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Speaker 5: I remember saying to him, do you think I could

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Speaker 5: work in a place like that? And he was like,

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Speaker 5: he's like, you should go. I was I've never been

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Speaker 5: to cooking school. They wouldn't look at me. It's like, no,

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Speaker 5: you should go there. And so anyway, I went to

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Speaker 5: Sydney worked for Darren. Darren sent me here and then

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Speaker 5: I came in and yeah, absolutely was terrified. I think

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Speaker 5: I made southa Verde, which I would say is a

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Speaker 5: pretty standard Yeah, you know, like entrance because you sort

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Speaker 5: of see you talk to someone about chopping stuff up.

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Speaker 5: Then you talked to them about how to make something balance.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's very important kind of fundamentals. And I

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Speaker 5: definitely did that. I remember doing that with Peter beg

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Speaker 5: Yes was an incredible it's.

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Speaker 3: Jamie here, Jamie here, long, all of us still in

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Speaker 3: the changing room, and then we used to have stars

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Speaker 3: just come in and take photos of the locker because

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Speaker 3: by then he was really famous.

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Speaker 5: I remember about a week later, I was terrified, and

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of the new people they still

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Speaker 5: do this. I burnt myself really badly Cinber how and

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Speaker 5: I was just used to being in let's be honest,

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Speaker 5: Darren's kitchen where it was much more matcho, and it

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Speaker 5: didn't really suit me to be honest in a lot

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Speaker 5: of ways, although I in a lot of ways I

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Speaker 5: loved it, but being here and burning myself really badly

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Speaker 5: and just assuming I just cover it with a tea

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Speaker 5: towel and carry on. And then you brought me outside

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Speaker 5: and gave me a cup of tea and sat me down,

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Speaker 5: and I think I had to smoked a cigarette, and

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Speaker 5: I just knew this was it in the right place.

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Speaker 2: And that was that thinking about covering up your mistake

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Speaker 2: when you do something wrong and then you want to

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Speaker 2: cover it up so that nobody finds out. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever thrown something away so that it's not of.

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Speaker 5: Course I still do.

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Speaker 4: I done one where I had.

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Speaker 3: I was cooking the pigeon on hot swarm, which is

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Speaker 3: a wood oven section and you have to be by

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Speaker 3: the time you're cooking on the wood oven, you're like

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Speaker 3: quite an accomplished a cafe chef, aren't you. So you're

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Speaker 3: cooking the pigeon and it was with probably something that

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Speaker 3: lentils and Swiss child and then.

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Speaker 4: One the theatic so we split a bit of crume

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Speaker 4: fresh in at.

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Speaker 3: The end and then I finished service and I just

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Speaker 3: got to the bottom of the bowl of crime fresh

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Speaker 3: and realized I used the panicotta.

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Speaker 4: I saw the vanilla at the bottom of the bowl.

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Speaker 5: But what also I remember more than like obviously the

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Speaker 5: food and the vegetables, and that guy who used to

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Speaker 5: come with a big pig over his shoulder every week,

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Speaker 5: and it just felt otherworldly to be honest to me,

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Speaker 5: but then also just making friends. Like in the first

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Speaker 5: week I became friends with Shan and then I made

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Speaker 5: those mistakes and she helped me out. I just wasn't

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Speaker 5: used to that. My experience in Australia had been far

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Speaker 5: from that. It's like everyone on the line was trying

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Speaker 5: to outdo the person next to them, whereas here it

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Speaker 5: just felt like I was making friends and being helped.

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Speaker 2: I remember the story about the waitress who wanned her

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Speaker 2: first day, maybe it's her second or third deck, and

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Speaker 2: we found her crying and we said, why are you

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Speaker 2: crying and she said, well, I came to work and

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Speaker 2: I was so hungry. I bought a croissant on the way,

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Speaker 2: and Richard Rogers came in and saw that the bar

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Speaker 2: and ate it.

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Speaker 4: I said, okay, well you better get used to that.

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Speaker 5: But it was also really lovely working here with Richard's

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Speaker 5: office next door. Their lights were always on, they were

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Speaker 5: always here later than us, and I had that real

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Speaker 5: feeling of that bustle of not just of them having lunch,

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Speaker 5: but just being around designing buildings.

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Speaker 2: It's just really nice, and it was nice they used

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Speaker 2: to come and ask us to look at drawings. I

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Speaker 2: remember going over to you remember going the model sharp

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Speaker 2: see them, and then you know, we'd ask them to

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Speaker 2: come over.

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Speaker 4: And taste a soup.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a kind of very very but I

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Speaker 2: think thinking about your first day and your first day,

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Speaker 2: does that make you really think hard about a chef

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Speaker 2: coming in here on their first day.

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Speaker 3: Nowadays, we generally interview people who would send in an

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Speaker 3: interesting CV, a CV that doesn't have to have hundreds

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Speaker 3: of top restaurants, a couple of a couple.

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Speaker 4: Of restaurants that they've worked in. Of note I would say,

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Speaker 4: rather than being the first job that they've ever done.

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Speaker 4: But it's not to say we don't take people at

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Speaker 4: that level.

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Speaker 3: So then they've come and to a couple of days

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Speaker 3: in the kitchen, so we can see how they move

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Speaker 3: in a kitchen, live skills, cleanliness, approach, their kind of manner,

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Speaker 3: and sort of spatial awareness. You don't think that that's

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Speaker 3: something you look out for, but people can just it's

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Speaker 3: almost like doing a dance in the kitchen. Everyone moves

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Speaker 3: around everyone really sort of organically, almost don't they And

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Speaker 3: a good.

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Speaker 4: Chef I think has that they're especially.

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Speaker 5: Aware and you can learn it you can learn it.

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Speaker 5: It's not like something that you have to have or not.

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Speaker 5: But I did.

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Speaker 2: It's really good and I'm off and asked that question,

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Speaker 2: how do you know and when do you know that

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Speaker 2: somebody's going to be an important part of a team.

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Speaker 2: When do you know that somebody can work in the kitchen?

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Speaker 2: So after a week you have an intuitive sense of

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Speaker 2: whether they were, where they move them, where they accept criticism,

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Speaker 2: the way other chefs respond, the where they cook.

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Speaker 5: Of course I agree with that, and I think we've

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Speaker 5: got such a good team that get along really well,

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Speaker 5: you know, in a specific kind of river cafe camaraderie way,

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Speaker 5: like quite often I love it if I've been on

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Speaker 5: holidays and then they'll come back and Chana say, oh,

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Speaker 5: I interviewed so and so you know you're going to

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Speaker 5: really get on with them, you know. It's just sort

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Speaker 5: of part I always employing people doesn't start if you

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Speaker 5: want a job as just say.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Because I always like to think that a lot

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Speaker 3: of London kitchens they are short staffed, and I think

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Speaker 3: that running a kitchen that's short staffed is a way

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Speaker 3: to get everyone working too.

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Speaker 4: Many shifts, more shifts people work, the more they start

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Speaker 4: to hate their job.

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Speaker 3: Chefs often do a shift called a double shift, which

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Speaker 3: is it's usually nine in the morning till eleven at night.

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Speaker 3: That's an average, and many chefs and many London restaurants

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Speaker 3: will do three or four.

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Speaker 4: Of those in a week.

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Speaker 3: And having done that when I worked in other restaurants

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Speaker 3: in London, you start to lose your quality of life.

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Speaker 3: And so I genuinely think that the more you can

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Speaker 3: turn cheffing into like a career where you work good hours,

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Speaker 3: and then the more you enjoy your job and you

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Speaker 3: go home and you cook, and you read cookbooks, and

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Speaker 3: you go out to eat, and you meet hang out

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Speaker 3: with chefs and hang out with friends.

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Speaker 4: So to have that, you need to have chefs.

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Speaker 3: So you can't run the chefs into the ground making

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Speaker 3: them do all these doubles because it's not the best

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Speaker 3: paid industry to be in, so you've got to give

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Speaker 3: them a world life balance.

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Speaker 5: Totally agree.

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Speaker 4: So we need a lot of chefs.

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Speaker 5: And also having quite a lot of chefs gives us

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Speaker 5: the ability to train people. You know, we're really good

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Speaker 5: at training people, but we're not especially quick at it.

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Speaker 5: You know, it takes ages. But thinking back to it,

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Speaker 5: in the you know, twenty years ago, we used to

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Speaker 5: employ people and I won't say who they are or

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Speaker 5: where they came from, but they'd arrived here and they

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Speaker 5: were clearly broken from kitchens. They were exhausted. That doesn't

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Speaker 5: really happen anymore. So I think maybe as a whole industry,

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Speaker 5: way way, way, way better.

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Speaker 3: Also because Rose and Ruth weren't. You didn't come from petitions,

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Speaker 3: so you ran it with reason, with just that's how

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Speaker 3: a business runs. We work good hours, week of food,

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Speaker 3: we take breaks, and I'd never I'd never worked anywhere

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Speaker 3: where the respect was so mutual, and it was amazing

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Speaker 3: to see women doing that and that, and I think

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Speaker 3: that creates longevity in this in the River Cafe, because it.

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Speaker 4: Was done by a pioneers of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, do you think there is I think when you

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Speaker 2: say that that we didn't have I certainly had absolutely

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Speaker 2: no experience of another restaurant, So I didn't have a concept,

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Speaker 2: as you say, of the way you do it. You'd

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Speaker 2: run it the way you run an architecture office or

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Speaker 2: you know, a lawyer's office or a doctor's office.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But when a journalist used to call me and say,

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Speaker 2: it must be so exhausting being a chef, and I

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Speaker 2: used to know it must be so exhausting being a journalist,

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Speaker 2: you know, because any career where you work, you know

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Speaker 2: that many hours a day. I mean, it probably is

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Speaker 2: more physical. It is the curtain goes up and you

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Speaker 2: have to be ready and you have to be.

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Speaker 3: The other thing about the kitchen, what I was thinking

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Speaker 3: is quite unusual was the fact that we never had titles.

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Speaker 4: I still don't know you.

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Speaker 2: I still don't know what it's a chef. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what together this a chef depart, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what that does.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but all you need to know is

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Speaker 3: that he's in charge. You probably worked that out quickly,

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Speaker 3: and then everyone else is. Genuinely some people are better

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Speaker 3: chefs than other people because you can see that people

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Speaker 3: have been cooking longer. But there's no title chef, which

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Speaker 3: is a hard concept to get your head around.

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Speaker 2: So isn't as a last question to someone coming, would

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Speaker 2: you have any sort of advice for them on their

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Speaker 2: first day.

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Speaker 3: I think you don't want to be too stressed, but

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Speaker 3: you also don't want to miss When you come to

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Speaker 3: River Cafe, it appears very relaxed. The sort of house

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Speaker 3: style is very open and friendly, but it is also

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Speaker 3: like very diligent and hard working. So we expect to

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Speaker 3: see people really concentrating and they want to learn, and

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Speaker 3: they're interested in the ingredients and want to talk about food.

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Speaker 5: I agree with that obviously, absolutely. I think you should

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Speaker 5: definitely take it seriously. I think it warrants it. But

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Speaker 5: at the same time, just try and be yourself as

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Speaker 5: much as you can.

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Speaker 2: Ask questions.

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Speaker 5: Ask questions for sure. Yeah, of course, be as nosey

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Speaker 5: as you can, and you know, be asking what everyone's doing,

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Speaker 5: and you know, take a real interest.

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Speaker 2: I'm impressed with people who really have their heads now,

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Speaker 2: you know, really focused on what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: I think we're pretty I hope.

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Speaker 2: That we're encouraging and we're understanding and it's a great

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Speaker 2: world another.

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Speaker 4: Who've come through.

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Speaker 3: Not even just the big names that you've got obviously,

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Speaker 3: the Jamie Olivers and thea Randalls and April Bloomfields, you fairlies,

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Speaker 3: we've also got you know, the Thomas Parry's, the Stevie.

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Speaker 5: Park, loads of it. It's a great place to learn.

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Speaker 5: It's a great place to learn.

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Speaker 2: When people leave, I say, you know, some of them

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Speaker 2: go to open a little place in New Zealand. Some

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Speaker 2: of them, you know, open a big restaurant. So I think,

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Speaker 2: as long as you take what you've learned from here

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Speaker 2: and keep cooking.

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Speaker 3: I remember getting when I got smugged in Florence and

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Speaker 3: I lost my wallet. I didn't know what to do

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Speaker 3: because I had not a single penny on me. So

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Speaker 3: I called Linda in the office and she organized for

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Speaker 3: an ex member staff who is living in Florence now

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Speaker 3: to come with an envelope of money.

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Speaker 5: It sounds a little bit like this sort of secret service.

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Speaker 4: What I reckon.

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Speaker 3: Go to many many places now around the world and

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Speaker 3: we can probably yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, first days, second days, third days, fourth days, one year,

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Speaker 2: ten years, twenty five years, amazing, We just keep going.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four

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Speaker 1: in partnership with Montclair