Speaker 1: Golf. Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change,
Speaker 1: anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man
Speaker 1: a one time winner on the PGA Tour. The point, Alan,
Speaker 1: is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth before
Speaker 1: we get to this extremely entertaining episode with Gary McCord,
Speaker 1: who's quite a golfing original. We're just gonna pay a
Speaker 1: few bills. We want to thank our corporate sponsors Echo.
Speaker 1: I'm a longtime fan and advocate and proponent Um. They're
Speaker 1: super comfy and stylist. But for Michael Bamberger, it's more
Speaker 1: than a shoe. It's a lifestyle. It's it's almost a worldview. Michael.
Speaker 1: That's well said. Alan. Now, Alan, we've known a show
Speaker 1: that a long time. You know all my moves, You
Speaker 1: even know all my trivia questions. I probably have posed
Speaker 1: this one to you before, and this relates. Did you
Speaker 1: mentioned Gary McCord? I did, but yeah, I was drowned out,
Speaker 1: but I thought you did. But when when McCord came
Speaker 1: on tour, the term that the term of the art
Speaker 1: as it relates to a shoe was still very popular. Alan.
Speaker 1: It's the covering of the laces that used to be
Speaker 1: popular and there's a reason why I'm going here. Do
Speaker 1: you know that term? And I think I probably posed
Speaker 1: this question to you before, like guilty guilty is correct?
Speaker 1: Now now, Alan, you know as you as you indicate
Speaker 1: it is. It's a, it's a. It's the same my attachment.
Speaker 1: The Echo shoe is a statement on life. I just
Speaker 1: did google Echo and guilty. They do make a shoe
Speaker 1: with a guilty So hats off to Echo for keeping
Speaker 1: the old traditional life. Only you could be this excited
Speaker 1: about the guilty. But we do love Echo shoes. We
Speaker 1: thank them for their support. Now let's get to Need
Speaker 1: a Fourth with Gary McCord. Hello, this is Alan Schip
Speaker 1: knuck back for another Need a Fourth podcasts, in which myself,
Speaker 1: co host Jeff Ogili Mick Obamager take turns surprising each
Speaker 1: other with mystery guests. Um are the person that their
Speaker 1: name might be on the zoom screen. Perhaps Michael and
Speaker 1: Jeff have not noticed this, but I will say that
Speaker 1: he's a winner on the Ben Hogan Tour, and he's
Speaker 1: a winner on the Senior Tour, but not in the
Speaker 1: tour you would play in between. Hopefully there there's a
Speaker 1: vast middle of his career that's winless but has made
Speaker 1: a great career for himself and TV um, this guy
Speaker 1: have a mustache older than you are in yours. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm afraid it probably does the Yes, the most famous
Speaker 1: mustache and golf Darnet Bamberger has seen the zoom. He
Speaker 1: knows who this is. Gary mccoord, Come on down, hello, boys, Gary,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Thank you for doing this. You know
Speaker 1: your name has come up in a few previous podcasts
Speaker 1: where Brandel Shambilie mentioned you. I think Jeff mentioned that
Speaker 1: you guys played a lot of golf together back in
Speaker 1: the day. So why why don't you, Why don't you
Speaker 1: take us to your long relationship with with co host
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvie and and tell us give us a little
Speaker 1: dirt on the man if you, if you would, Yeah, Jeff,
Speaker 1: Jeff showed up from down under to Scottsdale, Arizona, and
Speaker 1: he showed up at Whisper Rock and one of the
Speaker 1: young studs that were out there. So I got I
Speaker 1: got to see him and know him many many many
Speaker 1: years ago. And uh, we had we had a great
Speaker 1: time out there. We were we were going at it. Now.
Speaker 1: I was younger then much younger, and I could play
Speaker 1: just a little bit, but I never could handle Jeff.
Speaker 1: But he was fun because all the young there's a
Speaker 1: lot of young guy who got thirty five guys out
Speaker 1: there from the tour, so a lot of young guys.
Speaker 1: So you get to you get to watch their development
Speaker 1: and watch how they kind of go through their golfing
Speaker 1: life and their social life too, because Jeff lived there
Speaker 1: and we got to become pretty good friends, and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of good, good fun out there, a
Speaker 1: lot of good fun. It's a fun play. Gary told
Speaker 1: me how to play. That was frightening. I would I
Speaker 1: wouldn't get that out. I know it was very competitive
Speaker 1: that you were competitive. I mean we uh it was.
Speaker 1: It all started going downhill when you start of wanting
Speaker 1: the United shots. Well yeah, I mean it gets to
Speaker 1: the point I'm going frontis on h shots, not you know,
Speaker 1: a hundred years old and and you know you're playing
Speaker 1: the way you were, um and uh get we just
Speaker 1: played when we played two months ago, three months ago,
Speaker 1: months ago, like your asshole, if he shot sixty six
Speaker 1: or six seven, I shot eight five. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: need some strokes and I need some a lot of
Speaker 1: low I've actually always wondered if in a in a
Speaker 1: practice round, if you were you know, an aging Marco
Speaker 1: mirror and you're playing a practice round against peak Tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: do you ask for strokes or what is the pro code?
Speaker 1: As long as they have a tour card, you can't
Speaker 1: ask for strokes? F another pro like, how does that? Well?
Speaker 1: Just I'll give you at the rock. We all have
Speaker 1: our handicaps, Okay. Um. The bad thing is like Jeff
Speaker 1: when he's playing on the tour, I think they they
Speaker 1: allow like it's like one and a half points, um more.
Speaker 1: His scores count because he's in competition. Okay, Now mine
Speaker 1: are not in competition, and I'm out there and my
Speaker 1: my credo that is it's not what you shoot, it's
Speaker 1: what you post. So if I'm gonna go play Jeff
Speaker 1: Ogilvie and John Rams out there and all those guys,
Speaker 1: I need a lot of strokes. Now it's not even
Speaker 1: the contest. So back in the day, I need some
Speaker 1: help because they're just they You find out how good
Speaker 1: these guys are when you sitting next to him and
Speaker 1: you're playing for cash where they don't want to lose,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna hit it eight yards by it, and
Speaker 1: then you've got to negotiate and how to get how
Speaker 1: to get it down from there. And as Jeff knows,
Speaker 1: the only club I had my bag ever was my mouth.
Speaker 1: And I just if I can just get on guys
Speaker 1: and keep going and keep going and just get him
Speaker 1: to they're just piste off. And that's when you got
Speaker 1: some kind of chance. But otherwise I have no chance.
Speaker 1: I'm not absolutely not, but it is but fun in
Speaker 1: it and it and it develops. I mean, Jeff was
Speaker 1: when he first came out, there was really a quiet,
Speaker 1: introverted guy. Um And we played a lot, and Jeff
Speaker 1: started after you know, a year or two, and he
Speaker 1: started coming back at me with stuff. So I I
Speaker 1: a lot of these kids. It's fun to get them
Speaker 1: going competitively and then see what they've got verbally, Jeff,
Speaker 1: which is beat you and just not say anything. And
Speaker 1: then Jeff along the way, at some point started getting
Speaker 1: really good with the needle and um and and I
Speaker 1: was very proud of that development, very proud, not that
Speaker 1: I didn't but the fact that that he got a needle.
Speaker 1: He got a needle. Jeff, will you just give us
Speaker 1: a quick analysis and accord and swing, because Uh. I
Speaker 1: remember when he played and he my memories ahead. He
Speaker 1: had a tall lang with long backswing, beautiful rhythm, and
Speaker 1: he looked like a guy who's going to win on tour. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's comfortably the most self depreciating golfer I've ever met,
Speaker 1: and I've met a few. Um, he was very good.
Speaker 1: He had a good action. I wouldn't say it was
Speaker 1: long when I played with him, but he was already
Speaker 1: gray when I started playing with him. He had length
Speaker 1: to the swing. Yeah, it was a very nice swing.
Speaker 1: He looked he hit it straight old. Um said that
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to but did. Um. A short game
Speaker 1: was cool, a little shut stands short game that he
Speaker 1: learned from somewhere. He played like a pro who had
Speaker 1: been playing for fifty years, who had picked up tips
Speaker 1: from everybody. You know. Um, and really really good good putter,
Speaker 1: especially while talking. Um could make six footers for while
Speaker 1: talking through it. I think he was trying to distract
Speaker 1: you in case he missed it, but he might have
Speaker 1: every time. So Um, he's a very I'm derighted. Golf
Speaker 1: are really good. I don't know how he didn't win
Speaker 1: on the big stage. Actually, how did you not win?
Speaker 1: On the big stage. I was. I was, as you know,
Speaker 1: if I had to go back and take a look
Speaker 1: at it. And I played the tour from seventy four,
Speaker 1: told about started CBS and eight six, so right around
Speaker 1: you I kind of quit some nineties and seven four
Speaker 1: to nineties. That's that's a long time to be really bad.
Speaker 1: And and I and as Jeff knows, I I kind
Speaker 1: of started off slogan. I tapered off kind of one
Speaker 1: of those deals and I never could get it back.
Speaker 1: And mentally, you get you get out there and you
Speaker 1: get depressed. You get you constantly sitting in a hotel
Speaker 1: room thinking about how bad you are, and pretty soon
Speaker 1: you've become bad. And that's kind of what I did. Uh.
Speaker 1: I had a little bit of knowledge of the golf swing,
Speaker 1: not much because in my era when we came up,
Speaker 1: it was empirical. You would go out on the range,
Speaker 1: you hit balls, and if one went bad, you gotta
Speaker 1: don't remember that when it went good, remember that swing.
Speaker 1: We never had cameras, we never had anything. So we
Speaker 1: beat balls and figured out how we could do it.
Speaker 1: And it's not a really good speed learning situation. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I had no clue what I was doing.
Speaker 1: I beat the hell out everybody in in college and
Speaker 1: the mini tours, and then when I got out there
Speaker 1: into that and everybody there was I was an NC
Speaker 1: double A champion College division, which was a smaller division,
Speaker 1: and I went out there and everybody was n C
Speaker 1: double A champion, the big schools, and they were. I
Speaker 1: remember my first tour school I went to, I'm playing
Speaker 1: the last round of Lanny Watkins and David Graham and
Speaker 1: I had and I was shelter. I didn't play, started
Speaker 1: playing golfs fifteen. I remember I went back home when
Speaker 1: I told these guys, I said, I played with some
Speaker 1: guys that are so far past me. It's unbelievable. I
Speaker 1: don't know how I would survive out there this particular point.
Speaker 1: I didn't get my card that year. I got it
Speaker 1: the next. So, yeah, you become out there. You jeff,
Speaker 1: what's the wandering. You have a tendency to wander all
Speaker 1: over the place, and it we didn't have teachers, so
Speaker 1: you had to do it yourself. And if you were
Speaker 1: going in the right direction, you know long it took
Speaker 1: you to reverse that direction and then come back the
Speaker 1: other way or a way you thought was better. It
Speaker 1: was a constant, arduous trek through clouds and fogs and
Speaker 1: dark forest, and it was really hard to get if
Speaker 1: you had a rudder. By then it hit was, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, you could steer it, but we
Speaker 1: didn't want to steer which way to go, so that
Speaker 1: that was running right. Now, you go out there and
Speaker 1: you know, you've got your teacher, you've got your biomechanist,
Speaker 1: you've got your nutritionist, um, you've got literally everybody around
Speaker 1: you in this giant circle not letting your deviate from
Speaker 1: the path that you sent forth. And our dad there
Speaker 1: was no path, there was no nothing. So I want
Speaker 1: to blame it on the fact that I wasn't I
Speaker 1: was okay. I didn't have any concept of the golf
Speaker 1: swing whatsoever. I didn't in basics, I didn't know where
Speaker 1: the face was and how to apply the face to
Speaker 1: the ball. When I got nervous. The more nervous I got,
Speaker 1: the worse it got and engulf. The more nervous you get,
Speaker 1: you hopefully you've got a good standard um, a good
Speaker 1: standard model you can go for and it helps mine hurt.
Speaker 1: And I couldn't figure out why I got under the
Speaker 1: gun and I got worse. And that's the whole key
Speaker 1: in golf. You gotta get out there and you've got
Speaker 1: to you've got to play on the weekend, make the cut.
Speaker 1: Then you've got to play good, to play with the
Speaker 1: good players towards the end when the it gets raging
Speaker 1: inside and you can figure out, then all right, if
Speaker 1: I got it, what what happens? Gilder way to figure out?
Speaker 1: Then you go back to the range and try to
Speaker 1: try to try to figure out why it went wrong.
Speaker 1: And that was a it was hard, hard process at
Speaker 1: that time. And then you know I wasn't good enough
Speaker 1: to go out there and just with my mechanic's go
Speaker 1: look at me, where's Jack, where's the lady, where's Arnold?
Speaker 1: Let's go no one that way. So it's a long
Speaker 1: convoluted way to say, I with shitty, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know what I was doing. When did you start hanging
Speaker 1: out with Mac? Five? Um? I was in Palm Springs
Speaker 1: and Mac was there and I called him up and
Speaker 1: I said, where are you going next? And excuse me, Jeff,
Speaker 1: this is eight six six And he said, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Augusta. I'm playing, And uh, I
Speaker 1: was doing the TELEVI first time to the television. So
Speaker 1: I met Mac out there. We played a practice round
Speaker 1: effect Jody Mudd, me and Mac O'Grady played a practice round.
Speaker 1: This is good. And the first time I played augusta hold.
Speaker 1: You know, Mac wouldn't let you play golf. You had
Speaker 1: to hit shots and do all this crap. And he
Speaker 1: was working with Jod. So we get to the sixteenth
Speaker 1: hole and we're gonna play the whole im. You know,
Speaker 1: I think I'm playing for a score and playing for
Speaker 1: ten dollar units or twenty or a hundred, whatever we're
Speaker 1: playing for. And the pin was on the left, back
Speaker 1: over there in the corner, right around the bunker, and
Speaker 1: so I get hit. Mac goes, hoh holy, and he said,
Speaker 1: go to the right. I want I want to see
Speaker 1: if you getting the ledge up there in the top right.
Speaker 1: It's a hard shot. That's where it's gonna be. That's
Speaker 1: where it's gonna be on Saturday, seeing get it up there.
Speaker 1: So I get up there in the seven iron, I
Speaker 1: pulled hook it and I went right in the hole
Speaker 1: over here on the left, and everybody's going nuts, just AUGUSTA.
Speaker 1: First time I played it, I make a hole in one.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even aiming at the damn hole. I was
Speaker 1: aiming another one up there, and people are going nuts,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to tell no, no no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no no. I just Frank's looked at seven iron,
Speaker 1: literally forty yards away from where I was aiming. But
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that anyway. So MC and I are planning,
Speaker 1: and Mac and I had grown up in in in
Speaker 1: junior college. He was at UM he was at Santa
Speaker 1: Monica Junior College. I was at Riverside City College and
Speaker 1: I knew him then. He was nuts then too, um
Speaker 1: more a cowboy had uh but you know, golf song
Speaker 1: was okay, they're in jeff Okay, not anywhere near. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the next story, not anywhere near what
Speaker 1: it is now. And you know, he always had a
Speaker 1: left handed club in his bag and then thirteen right
Speaker 1: handed clops. And I played him in junior college and
Speaker 1: he was not. So he came back and I and
Speaker 1: I had played with him somewhere and I went, whoa, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, that is not the swing. I remember,
Speaker 1: this looked really good. He had been to Asia plan
Speaker 1: and he I think he quit over there. End up
Speaker 1: playing left handed for a while over in Asia, and
Speaker 1: then he started in the golf machine and then he
Speaker 1: started figuring out how to do it. And so after
Speaker 1: he figured out how to do it, that's when I
Speaker 1: met him an augustin six again for the first time
Speaker 1: in a while. I said, can I come down and
Speaker 1: work with you? I live in uh I live in
Speaker 1: Palm Springs at the time, and Mac did too. He said, yeah,
Speaker 1: come out to the field. So there was a field
Speaker 1: there that we had it, but golf course was at anyways,
Speaker 1: big kind of soccer field. So I went out there
Speaker 1: one day. You know, you got to hip balls, you
Speaker 1: think you go hip balls for thirty minutes with Mac
Speaker 1: And I was out there for twelve and a half hours,
Speaker 1: and he showed me he started hitting balls left handed,
Speaker 1: right handed. I mean and Jeff as you know when
Speaker 1: you when you look at him when he was playing,
Speaker 1: it was perfect. It was freaking perfect. And he had
Speaker 1: a model and he had starting to investigate this model
Speaker 1: from the golf machine. And I'm watching this and I'm
Speaker 1: going and he's shown me how Finally I got it.
Speaker 1: After about ten hours, I couldn't stand up, I couldn't
Speaker 1: hold on the club. I was getting the idea of it.
Speaker 1: So at that point we became really good friends. And
Speaker 1: from there to the last time I talked to him,
Speaker 1: I think it was so eight years. I was with
Speaker 1: him teaching a bunch of the guys on the tour
Speaker 1: Max model, working with him and understand it, and we
Speaker 1: were going to try to make a business out of it.
Speaker 1: So that's UH, I learned a lot. It was. I
Speaker 1: went to the mountain, UH, and I learned a lot.
Speaker 1: We had doctors, we had by a mechanist. We had
Speaker 1: guys flying in left and right going on this model,
Speaker 1: uh dr Zabnman shaky and uh. It was intense. And
Speaker 1: at night Mac wouldn't let you go, so he'd call
Speaker 1: you on the phone, and he'd call you on the phone.
Speaker 1: And Mac is deaf in the right here and totally
Speaker 1: deaf in left here a hundred percent because his brothers
Speaker 1: beat the crap out of him when he was growing up,
Speaker 1: and so he lost some hearing. So in other words,
Speaker 1: Mac didn't listen. Mac talked and literally he got on
Speaker 1: the phone. We've got on the phone for three or
Speaker 1: four hours after being with him all day, eight hours,
Speaker 1: and it was just it was. It was intense, to
Speaker 1: say the least of an education. I'm interested that you
Speaker 1: had a friendship with someone where you only had to listen.
Speaker 1: How about that? How about that I could do was
Speaker 1: just to ask questions and then listen. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: was hard. That that was. That was hard. It really was.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a very very good read on that,
Speaker 1: but it's it was hard. But in the long run, um,
Speaker 1: you know, to watch to what he did with a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys in all the way different Jody
Speaker 1: mud Uh, Chip Beck Um um stars at the end, Um,
Speaker 1: and to watch them and the model and so forth
Speaker 1: in the end and understand the biomechanics of it and
Speaker 1: their neurology and all that stuff. It was really really fun,
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Gary. I'm interested that you you
Speaker 1: you say your struggle on the PGA Tour because of
Speaker 1: you know, nervousness, but you're obviously an extrovert and a
Speaker 1: showman and you seem to love a crowd. Is that
Speaker 1: something that developed later in life where you just couldn't
Speaker 1: transfer your natural personality into your golf game. Well, I
Speaker 1: think that was probably alan Probably a lot of the
Speaker 1: problem was the fact that I was like that, um,
Speaker 1: very gregarious, you know, like kept fun. Uh, I've got
Speaker 1: I've got a d D really bad, which a lot
Speaker 1: of people do. So my focus was, oh, maybe a
Speaker 1: femto second. That's it. That's a That's as much as
Speaker 1: I could focus. And then it was squirrel and I'll
Speaker 1: be bouncing a round and there, and that was that
Speaker 1: was a problem. I couldn't really concentrate and put my full,
Speaker 1: my full focus on what I was doing. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember coming up to the to the who has
Speaker 1: brought this up the other day? Oh it was um
Speaker 1: got got into her hold on getting a second anywhere
Speaker 1: playing Silverado eighteenth. It's a part five, bunch of people
Speaker 1: around and this is stuff I would do and and
Speaker 1: uh so I told my caddie, I said, this is
Speaker 1: long before a long before we had we had any
Speaker 1: any of any of these, uh cell phones. And I
Speaker 1: had this ringer in my bag and I got over
Speaker 1: this button. I'm looking at it like I can't figure
Speaker 1: out which way it breaks, and then the phone goes
Speaker 1: off my golf bag. Okay, Daling, Dane Ling, Daling. So
Speaker 1: I go over and I walk over there right in
Speaker 1: the middle of a round, and uh, I figured out
Speaker 1: I had about a twenty five UH cord on the
Speaker 1: end of a phone, okay, and I just stretched it
Speaker 1: and I got behind a I got behind the ball.
Speaker 1: I said, so you're telling me it goes to the left,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking up. Okay, so you're telling me it
Speaker 1: goes to the left. They didn't go to the left,
Speaker 1: your kids. I had this long talk with God about
Speaker 1: which way the ball is going, and then we finally,
Speaker 1: you know, we get in there and I don't know
Speaker 1: if I made it or missed it. But that's the
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you know. I had. I had toy
Speaker 1: chain sauce in my golf bag, had folding and they
Speaker 1: and you started it up when like that it was plastic,
Speaker 1: but it was It was a toothedged uh cutter on
Speaker 1: the thing and it would fold back up in so
Speaker 1: when I pushed it against a tree, it looked like
Speaker 1: it was cutting it. So I'd be over the trees
Speaker 1: all the time, you know the gallery that I knew
Speaker 1: everybody because I was over the trees and I'm looking
Speaker 1: I go to the guy who goes out, you know,
Speaker 1: what what do you think? You know? And asked he
Speaker 1: what do you think? Well, you can't do it in trees.
Speaker 1: Take care of that. I take that. I'd start cutting.
Speaker 1: I got guys going to push the tree over and
Speaker 1: helped me push the tree because I was cutting the tree.
Speaker 1: So you can see I was focusing a little too
Speaker 1: much on the devian part instead of the part that
Speaker 1: I wanted to I should have been thinking about. I
Speaker 1: just want to know that Gary was witty long before
Speaker 1: he got on t V. When I was cattying briefly,
Speaker 1: I heard him say of there was an old time
Speaker 1: caddy named Lelnch, and Gary said apropos of nothing. Leland
Speaker 1: isn't gonna die. He's just gonna crystallize. One day, while
Speaker 1: tending the pain, Leland was, let's see, boy, this has
Speaker 1: gone back a long time. He was known as Fingers,
Speaker 1: and he the shoulder massages. He would give more unbelievable
Speaker 1: and just go down. If he was working for al
Speaker 1: Geiberger for a long time and you go, Fingers, Fingers,
Speaker 1: I need some work here, and he'd come already like that. Man,
Speaker 1: you felt great, But you're right. I think the guy
Speaker 1: just crystallized. He just literally turned into the courts and
Speaker 1: he's out there somewhere in the desert. You know, you know, Gary,
Speaker 1: you know having that's not true. Mike Donald paid for
Speaker 1: his barracks. He okay, good for Mike. That's that's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he had nothing. We weren't making much back then,
Speaker 1: and either were the caddies. Gary, You've been around the
Speaker 1: game for so long. If you think about you know,
Speaker 1: you were a fan of the game. I'm sure when
Speaker 1: Big Jack and Arnold were playing, and you know right
Speaker 1: through the day, you've you've seen it all. Do you
Speaker 1: think of golf as a continuum or do you think
Speaker 1: of it as errors, like you know the per Seminarro,
Speaker 1: your error when you had to pay for range balls,
Speaker 1: and then Curtis hit his you know, not short and straight,
Speaker 1: but in play anyway, and then VJ hit it as
Speaker 1: long as you can. Is it continuum to you or
Speaker 1: is it errors? Let's continuum, but you pigeon all the
Speaker 1: continuum into into parts that you can remember. Okay, I remember,
Speaker 1: you know Arnold and Jack and then you know Lee
Speaker 1: came around and started in fades and throwing snakes at people,
Speaker 1: and you know it. It is a continue. Golf is
Speaker 1: a continue, but it has to be identified with something
Speaker 1: so you can remember those aires right uses where you
Speaker 1: hear as you lived in, so you would quantify it
Speaker 1: that one. And but yeah, I did start fourteen hundred,
Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds. Jeff knows all that stuff, and it is
Speaker 1: today and it's going to keep going and going and
Speaker 1: going as a continuum. But then you've got to figure
Speaker 1: out what air I was in and whatever the jack error,
Speaker 1: you know, the tiger area or whatever. And I've been
Speaker 1: in all of those right now. Um. I used to
Speaker 1: play with Julius Borrows and and uh and all those guys.
Speaker 1: And now to be out there and watch these kids,
Speaker 1: it's it's really entertaining, I mean very entertaining to watch
Speaker 1: how different they are we were compared to what these
Speaker 1: kids are doing. Obviously you would have, given the choice,
Speaker 1: you price to want to be on the airwaves. Do
Speaker 1: did that diminish your enthusiasm for watching golf and not
Speaker 1: not being able to call because you know, I had
Speaker 1: so many friends out there and it was fun. I
Speaker 1: did it for thirty five years, um, and I didn't
Speaker 1: like the way they did it. There was we had
Speaker 1: a two year option. Both Peter cost This Night had
Speaker 1: a two year option and CBS had never not taken
Speaker 1: an option. Okay, and so they just mean they called
Speaker 1: us up. It was it was two thousand, two thousand nineteen.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here in Scottsdale, and Costas calls me, and
Speaker 1: I got here. What's going on? Do you get a
Speaker 1: phone going from New York? No? He goes, I got one?
Speaker 1: I said, what? He goes, I got fired? What what mean?
Speaker 1: You got fired? Our our options were up two more
Speaker 1: years and then we were out? And I go fire?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? Now? I'm thinking the whole time, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at my phone and ship anybody called me? And
Speaker 1: nothing said no go Thank god, Peter got fired. But
Speaker 1: I don't give a ship. I didn't get fired, So okay,
Speaker 1: I'll keep going. I did that night. I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: and I go and all of a sudden, the phone
Speaker 1: heat gives me a little a little beet there and
Speaker 1: I looked and it was it was a message, a
Speaker 1: voicemail that was six hours old. I don't you know,
Speaker 1: you know how they come out of the kind of
Speaker 1: out of the eight or somewhere, and they land and
Speaker 1: I saw the number on it was to one two,
Speaker 1: which is New York. I went, oh shit. So I
Speaker 1: didn't look at it until I got out the next
Speaker 1: morning and I sat there and I looked at I hit.
Speaker 1: I had said, and uh, Gary, can you call me
Speaker 1: Polaean mcmanice. I need to talk to you. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So that was it. And and they whacked us. Um.
Speaker 1: They told us that we can do what we want,
Speaker 1: but they would like to for the first two tournaments
Speaker 1: of the next year for us to come back and
Speaker 1: get out, So it would have been San Diego and Phoenix,
Speaker 1: and they would do a little dog and pony for
Speaker 1: those two get out. And I I kind of said
Speaker 1: no because I thought it was more for them than
Speaker 1: it was for us, and so I'd sitting So that
Speaker 1: was it. We just kind of got whacked. Um, very succinctly,
Speaker 1: to say the least. Okay, what was your path to CBS?
Speaker 1: Did you know what you're Kenyan or Chuck will or
Speaker 1: some of those guys. The path was? It was nineteen
Speaker 1: It was nineteen six. I was on the tour policy board,
Speaker 1: one of the three player directors, which is a frightening
Speaker 1: thought in itself. And I was on an air. I
Speaker 1: was going from from Colonial to Merefield for Jack's tournament.
Speaker 1: I was not in the tournament, because that's a tournament
Speaker 1: they go right off the money list Invitational. So I
Speaker 1: was not in. But we had policy board meetings Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 1: So I get on the airplane flane and to get
Speaker 1: on the airplane, I had to go through first class,
Speaker 1: which was Pat Summer, all, Ben Right, Frank Chick, Kenyon,
Speaker 1: uh Ken, Ben Surrey, and who else, somebody else and
Speaker 1: first and I'm in thirty seven C. Back there. So
Speaker 1: at about halfway there, I get I get a half
Speaker 1: half drunk bottle of wine, okay from the boys in
Speaker 1: first class. Hope I enjoy you're enjoying with the hope
Speaker 1: you're enjoying thirty seven C. So I went up to
Speaker 1: thank him. Was walking up. Ah, Jeff, we'll get this idea.
Speaker 1: So Wednesday I had nothing to do. The next turn
Speaker 1: was washing d C. Now I'm out there making nothing,
Speaker 1: and if I can't go to Washington d C early,
Speaker 1: I can't. It's too expensive. So I figured a con.
Speaker 1: I went back to Frank. I said, Frank, listen, I'm
Speaker 1: on the policy board making decisions to CBS, NBC, ABC.
Speaker 1: That time, I said, I know nothing about television. Is
Speaker 1: there any chance I could come and watch you in
Speaker 1: the trucks do a telecastsole me as one of the
Speaker 1: three player directors can get an idea. That's when I
Speaker 1: make decisions. I have a little better background. Is what
Speaker 1: what to look for and what to talk about in
Speaker 1: these meetings. And he looked at me and I go.
Speaker 1: He goes, you've got nothing to do. No, you broke,
Speaker 1: just like that, you broke. Yeah, he goes, all right,
Speaker 1: check into the Stoffers and and we'll we'll go. We'll
Speaker 1: go Friday. Come on in Friday. So I remember that
Speaker 1: night at Stoffers. We're going there, he says, Frank was
Speaker 1: basically started the entire business the five ft a Carthenian
Speaker 1: General basically. So we go there and we met at
Speaker 1: the bar. All the idiots at the bar. We're sitting around,
Speaker 1: and so you go from the bar. This was every day.
Speaker 1: Every day you go from the bar, and then you
Speaker 1: go in to the restaurant right next to it. I'm
Speaker 1: sitting next to Summer all and you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: heard about these guys, but I've never witnessed these guys.
Speaker 1: So we're sitting there and there's the service, the service
Speaker 1: salads first. So we're sitting there. I mean, aw about
Speaker 1: my third bite next to me, I'll hear I hear
Speaker 1: this and face first past Summer, all into the salad,
Speaker 1: rogue for coming everywhere, everywhere, and no one even looks,
Speaker 1: and they keep talking and I'm looking. I'm looking over
Speaker 1: and this guy he's I've never heardnybody drowned and rogue
Speaker 1: for dressing, but this guy's got a chance at it.
Speaker 1: So I'm I don't know, you know, it's my first day.
Speaker 1: There I did, and I'm I keep looking at him,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking to Ben right and finally Ben Regan's head.
Speaker 1: Good god, he's done it again. And he gets up
Speaker 1: and he takes him by the hair, pulls it up
Speaker 1: and here's Pat Summer all nothing with rogue for addressing.
Speaker 1: Ever you can't recognize it. And Ben gets him up
Speaker 1: out of the deal, walks him into the into the
Speaker 1: elevator and up to his room. But when Bed comes back,
Speaker 1: no one says a word. Nobody says a word about this,
Speaker 1: and I went, Jesus, this is going to get interesting.
Speaker 1: So I go out there on Friday rehearsal, show up,
Speaker 1: go into the truck's big truck. I walked in and
Speaker 1: Frank and the sound guy his his directors next to him.
Speaker 1: Frank was actually producing and directing at the same time.
Speaker 1: And you know all the guys that you know. It's
Speaker 1: a hundred monitors up there. And I get in. I
Speaker 1: seek in the back and I said down. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of looking wide eyed here. I've never been in the trucks.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, somebody says, hey, Frank, record's
Speaker 1: behind you. He turns around and goes, hey, asshole, get
Speaker 1: out to sixteen. And no, I wanted to watch you
Speaker 1: get out to sixteen. I get out the door. I'll
Speaker 1: walk out to sixteen. Jeff, you remember the old days,
Speaker 1: sixteen at Merefield. I walk out. I'm now I'm going
Speaker 1: towards I start England for the tea. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I'm going to sixteen even is that? I mean
Speaker 1: look at the tea because I think I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: a spotter. And that's basically Caddy that's missed the coup.
Speaker 1: He comes out and he sits there with a headset
Speaker 1: on and Fred Couples pulls out a seven iron and
Speaker 1: he goes Fred's got a seven iron that goes to
Speaker 1: the trucks up to the announcer. That's what I think
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I get halfway to the right, walking
Speaker 1: over there, and I hear screaming and yelling from Verne
Speaker 1: lumpist up in the tower, Get up here, get up here,
Speaker 1: and he goes, come on up, come on up. So
Speaker 1: I climb up and he hands me a headset. I said,
Speaker 1: what's this for? He says, Frank wants to try his
Speaker 1: an announcer. Well, I figures a lot better than being
Speaker 1: a caddy on the tea, right. So I sat there
Speaker 1: and we did rehearsal for literally four minutes. Some cameras
Speaker 1: broke down. He says, hell of it. He says, everybody
Speaker 1: in place tomorrow one o'clock, not at four men. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Who was talking, no idea. The
Speaker 1: only guy remembered was Pat Summer all because he was
Speaker 1: doing those those union those hard work commercials, um true,
Speaker 1: true hard work. And I remember the boys. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's him. And then there's Frank's yelling at mean
Speaker 1: this year all the time, and then people are talking
Speaker 1: this year, and that's the play by play anyway, no idea.
Speaker 1: So we got up to the that's how I got
Speaker 1: the job. So we get up there on Saturday and
Speaker 1: I'm studying my ass off. I'm sitting in a folding
Speaker 1: chair right here, and next to me here is a
Speaker 1: is a basically it's a window plexiglass, and there's a spotter.
Speaker 1: And the spotter for for Verne Lindquist was literally we
Speaker 1: waited him a safe way one day. He was four
Speaker 1: pounds okay, offensive lineman for Wisconsin. So he literally when
Speaker 1: the when the sun went to set on that side
Speaker 1: of the tower, it was dark in there, totally dark,
Speaker 1: and then burns on the other side. So I'm setting
Speaker 1: next to the camera and waiting and waiting, and I
Speaker 1: don't what I'm doing. I literally I'm on national delevision.
Speaker 1: I got well, plue what I'm doing. And so we
Speaker 1: go and and I'm on sixteen. I'm sitting and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the guys. I've done homework, got my stuff,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden we're going and Verne goes, um,
Speaker 1: he get Gary, what what's this putt look like? Well,
Speaker 1: look there's nobody on the green, there's somebody on the sill.
Speaker 1: And Jeffish, you know, you look to the right, you
Speaker 1: can you can look down fourteen nice trival part four
Speaker 1: and then thee there's nobody there because we've got we've
Speaker 1: got starting times in between. Now the next group is
Speaker 1: on the fourteenth hole. I'm on sixteen on national television.
Speaker 1: Burn goes, Gary, what's his putt? Looked like? Well, now
Speaker 1: I put down my paper and I'm looking and there's
Speaker 1: nobody and there's nobody playing the hole. So now I think, well,
Speaker 1: maybe this is a joke from the guy. So I
Speaker 1: get out over the end. I look underneath. I did.
Speaker 1: I got up and looked underneath the tower to see
Speaker 1: if the guys down below we're hiding really because there's
Speaker 1: nobody there, and I'm going finally with the hell of it,
Speaker 1: I said, Burn, this put is really sincerely fast, and
Speaker 1: if he's just too hard, it could go in the water.
Speaker 1: Thinking now these guys are just putting me on. We're
Speaker 1: still in commercial break right, Um, Jeff, ten years ago?
Speaker 1: Is there any water on sixteen? No? No water, no, nothing.
Speaker 1: Did not put the lake in until about five years ago,
Speaker 1: four years ago. There's no water. The only water is
Speaker 1: a drinking fountain on the tea on sixteen. So I
Speaker 1: make this up right and Burn goes, oh. He says
Speaker 1: you're right. Another full of feet, um, and it was
Speaker 1: it was I know we hit this pot too. I'll
Speaker 1: get a second, bob. Anyway, he hits his pot and
Speaker 1: it goes. He says, it's on the fridge. Another foot
Speaker 1: and go on the water and now let's go to
Speaker 1: pat Summer. All at eighteen bird bird, What the hell?
Speaker 1: What's going on? He goes, what do you mean? He said,
Speaker 1: good call, you gotta get faster. I think that call.
Speaker 1: There's open a here. He says, well, you gotta look
Speaker 1: at the monitor. I said, I can't see the money,
Speaker 1: got job of the hut in front of you. I
Speaker 1: can't see through him. And he goes, oh, he says,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden he went, oh Jesus,
Speaker 1: he said, rehearsal. I said, yeah, we had ever five minutes.
Speaker 1: I said, what's going on? He goes, you know, we
Speaker 1: have five other holes. Excuse me? What on the six
Speaker 1: steenth hall? I'm an idiot, So I just figured we're
Speaker 1: doing the sixteenth ho we got five other holes, and
Speaker 1: the other hole we were doing at that time it
Speaker 1: was the twelfth hold Part three. Beautiful looks like it
Speaker 1: looks like throws throws lake. They're beautiful just before, just
Speaker 1: sitting down and well, Bob Westwood, that was Eastwood. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: I always called Westwood. He was on the top top
Speaker 1: of the green up there, Gregg and the pins on
Speaker 1: the front, right on the front of the water up there,
Speaker 1: and he hit this foot going down that hill and
Speaker 1: he hit it past roll about eight feet by on
Speaker 1: the fringe, and literally he would have hit it pretty hard,
Speaker 1: but it could have gone in the water. So I
Speaker 1: just made the whole damn thing up and I got
Speaker 1: it right. So I figured this is the business for me.
Speaker 1: So Frank it was again the six hole, and why
Speaker 1: I got asked the next week the sixteenth hole on
Speaker 1: the back stop there, and it was Payne Stewart was
Speaker 1: up there. Payne Stewart was up there and you, it
Speaker 1: looks like you look like a better win. Sheep over
Speaker 1: the green up on that hill and you're shitting straight
Speaker 1: down to this green. The green is greens, harder rock,
Speaker 1: and Burn goes Gary, what's he got? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: here's what he's got. Everybody out there at home. I
Speaker 1: want you to get your wedge, I want you to
Speaker 1: get a ball. I want you to walk out to
Speaker 1: your front launch shipping on your driveway, start halling forward
Speaker 1: to bite. That's what he's got. Well get done. Frank's laugh.
Speaker 1: First time I ever heard Frank laugh. And he gets done.
Speaker 1: He goes, what are you doing next week? I go,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm playing. I'm playing Washington see at the Kemper.
Speaker 1: He goes, great. He said, you'll miss the cut. When
Speaker 1: you missed the cut, come on up. So I did
Speaker 1: that for three years. I went up. They gave me
Speaker 1: five hundred bucks for the weekend. So if I missed
Speaker 1: the cut, which was chance I was gonna make a
Speaker 1: miss the cut, I would go up and do that.
Speaker 1: And they finally signed me. I told him I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna do anymore. In nineteen I think it was eight
Speaker 1: or ninety. I said I need to contract and I'll
Speaker 1: quit plan. So that was it. That's how That's how
Speaker 1: long winded. That's how I got the job. That's a
Speaker 1: great story. It's also proved that for you guys, uh
Speaker 1: making outrageous prediction and Johnny Miller made a career out
Speaker 1: of this is always a good thing. Like Miller, you know,
Speaker 1: something probable, bunker shot and john would say, yeah, he
Speaker 1: could hold this, you know, and then one and twelve
Speaker 1: times John would be correct, and he looked like a genius.
Speaker 1: You didn't remember the other elevens. Well, I think that
Speaker 1: was most of dramas. I think I think predicted about
Speaker 1: four percent of his predictions came out true. But his
Speaker 1: legacy is based on on the four percent that he
Speaker 1: got right. And I'll tell you a story about Ian
Speaker 1: Baker Finch. Ian Baker Finch came over from ABC to
Speaker 1: work at CBS and I had tried to get him
Speaker 1: to work. I brought him into the tower at it
Speaker 1: was at the Western Open, Jeff, where was the golf
Speaker 1: card had five golf courses there. One guy owners cog Hill,
Speaker 1: Cog Hill, so it was was it at cog Hill.
Speaker 1: I took him up the tower. He is really good,
Speaker 1: good looking guy, and he was starting to snipe it
Speaker 1: off the team really bad and he couldn't find it
Speaker 1: left and he's such a good guy, and I just, man,
Speaker 1: you gotta quit doing this. You're gonna kill yourself. So
Speaker 1: I brought him up the tower. Frank liked him, but
Speaker 1: he said, I don't need another breaking foreign boards anymore.
Speaker 1: So that was that in the first time. So then
Speaker 1: he finally came two after ABC came to CBS Mary's
Speaker 1: about the second telecast and he said something on the air,
Speaker 1: and I just jumped in about it's not right. How
Speaker 1: can you say that? I can you even think about that?
Speaker 1: That's a right hand, doesn't do that. Coul swing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I start arguing. So we get
Speaker 1: done and we get to the to the compound there
Speaker 1: at the double ledge and he goes kind of talk
Speaker 1: to you for a second. I said, yeah what. He goes,
Speaker 1: you know that argument we had today? And I'm thinking argument,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that. I said what And he goes, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't know you're gonna jump me like that. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that, you know. I thought it was wrong. No, no,
Speaker 1: you were dead right. I said, you're absolutely right. But
Speaker 1: I said, in television, what what? We're trying to try
Speaker 1: to take a side, take for it or against it, Jane,
Speaker 1: you ignorant slut, take one of the two sides, and
Speaker 1: you arguing even if you even you agree with the guy.
Speaker 1: Because you've got people at home sitting on a couch
Speaker 1: and they're going they're going through the remote fast as
Speaker 1: they can, and for them to stay they've got to
Speaker 1: take part in something. They have to take a side
Speaker 1: and watch it, argue out, and then decide whether they're
Speaker 1: gonna watch anymore. I said, if you do a telecast
Speaker 1: at NBC at that time, everybody, everybody it was, it
Speaker 1: was of the same mindset they had, They have the
Speaker 1: same thoughts. They would say, yes, Johnny, you're absolutely right, Roger,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. Right, Well, it's boring after a while.
Speaker 1: So you've got to have this agonist antagonist relationship, even
Speaker 1: if it's faked on the air, to get some spice
Speaker 1: in it. Because what I it was television, and if
Speaker 1: you're on television, it's in the entertainment business. So you
Speaker 1: watch guys like Jeff playing and then you say, oh,
Speaker 1: accoly it's good or bad. You know, that was a
Speaker 1: shitty shot. Uh, he doesn't hit many of those. I
Speaker 1: hit a lot of whatever it is. And then you
Speaker 1: pound him on something else, or you you know, you
Speaker 1: applaud him on something else, and then you take sides
Speaker 1: and go back and forth. Because you watch every sitcom
Speaker 1: that's ever done, and it's always it's usually four people
Speaker 1: in the room that are totally divergent in their philosophy,
Speaker 1: their ways of life, how they grew up, and they
Speaker 1: meet in the middle, and in that middle to fist
Speaker 1: fight and you get in the middle is we're all
Speaker 1: the funniest and golf is is they've lost that totally totally. Uh.
Speaker 1: Frank liked it. He liked the whole thing about doing
Speaker 1: it that way. So that was just the way. I
Speaker 1: don't the question was a long time ago. But that's
Speaker 1: I think how golf should be done. And again it's
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's you like it to a sitcom
Speaker 1: I do. It just sounds like the grill room at
Speaker 1: Whispering Benga, exactly right, exactly right. You just start pounding
Speaker 1: on people when they come in. You just get every
Speaker 1: bit of mmo you got. See who likes to come
Speaker 1: back at you, and they come back at you, you
Speaker 1: go after them harder and see what they got. And
Speaker 1: then it gets down to okay, let's go out and
Speaker 1: play for hundreds, U asshole. And you go out and
Speaker 1: you play for hundreds and pick a partner and go
Speaker 1: and it's if there's nothing better, you know, remember Japan,
Speaker 1: the old they would Phil get out there with the needle.
Speaker 1: It's justif and he you know, he could sell cocky
Speaker 1: with his bats he'd make bet you couldn't win. And
Speaker 1: that's because Phil always had a lot of money. So
Speaker 1: you could remember one day when I'm played and they
Speaker 1: were it was he and Stricky and me and Jennie
Speaker 1: and somebody else, and they were going to play bestball
Speaker 1: against my five eyes scramble score. Well, you can't win
Speaker 1: that bat, you can't just you can't do it. And
Speaker 1: the fourth all he paid off to get everybody a hundred.
Speaker 1: Let's start over, let's do something else. They still, so
Speaker 1: we did. But this stuff like that, it's always been
Speaker 1: good fun and you learn. You know, Jeff, you know,
Speaker 1: Jeff's really good at the needle, He's got to try one.
Speaker 1: He's really good at the needle. And that that's that's
Speaker 1: how we learned when I was younger, that's how you
Speaker 1: learned how to play. It's a great environment to get better. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: when Phil comes to down, Phil comes, it sounds ends
Speaker 1: out a text to about twelve guys is like I'm coming.
Speaker 1: We're playing hundred dollars a hole or something, and we're
Speaker 1: playing off the back and he gets in and he's
Speaker 1: playing not only in his group, there's two or three
Speaker 1: other groups that didn't get in, his group that he's
Speaker 1: playing hundred dollars a hall and there he's playing twelve
Speaker 1: different people and just compare cards at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, and he takes a bath every time. But
Speaker 1: he loves it. He loves and all his boys are
Speaker 1: there from s so it was it was funny games.
Speaker 1: As you surely know. You know. Link Soul is a
Speaker 1: clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for
Speaker 1: at least a decade. It's cool stuff. It's super comfy
Speaker 1: and want of the Firepit loves it. We're believers. If
Speaker 1: you go to linksol dot com and use the promo
Speaker 1: code fire Pit five, you will get off your purchase.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, and we're also given away a two links
Speaker 1: old gift card per episode. So go to the Firepit
Speaker 1: YouTube channel and leave a comment from this episode and
Speaker 1: say how much you loved it, because surely you're loving it.
Speaker 1: You're a golf fan. You have to be loving this
Speaker 1: and the winners will be notified and promoted on our
Speaker 1: Instagram and our Twitter feeds. So get involved. We're trying
Speaker 1: to have some fun. We also have to pay the
Speaker 1: bills here at the fire Pit Collective. So back to
Speaker 1: nit a fourth. I don't know if you saw this
Speaker 1: little news break in the Sports Business journal, but you know,
Speaker 1: the tours going to try and streamline the telecast, the
Speaker 1: fewer commercials and uh you know, like the last hour
Speaker 1: Um and MAUI was commercial free and things of that nature.
Speaker 1: There's there's been so much talk for so many years
Speaker 1: about the product that's given to viewers at home. If
Speaker 1: we gave you all the power in the world, Gary,
Speaker 1: how would how would you reinvent the way the PGA
Speaker 1: Tours televised? I'll tell you a story. Um, I know
Speaker 1: you will. First of all, that everybody is trying to
Speaker 1: emulate the masters in every way, shape or form. Okay,
Speaker 1: The number one thing if you get into the media
Speaker 1: part of it is there's what a minute and a
Speaker 1: half commercials an hour? Okay, they get the four sponsors
Speaker 1: in there, they give them a lot of money that
Speaker 1: guys say, okay, fine, we'll do that. What a presentation.
Speaker 1: You never get mired and and uh see it in
Speaker 1: a half hour. I think we're a lot of I
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's nine minutes of commercial for
Speaker 1: a half hour, and those get backloaded a lot, so
Speaker 1: all of a suddenly starts, you know, and the actions
Speaker 1: I going to start throwing commercials. Act you you're going Jesus,
Speaker 1: come on, um. I had at the end of last year,
Speaker 1: Greg Norman was calling me trying to get me to
Speaker 1: come to Live to be one of the announcers with
Speaker 1: charity and they wanted to kind of re event things.
Speaker 1: And they got ahold of at that time too, they
Speaker 1: got hold of Charles Barkley. So Charles and are good buddies.
Speaker 1: He's a member out there to Jeff and I play
Speaker 1: and we had to talk one day and he goes, Hey, says,
Speaker 1: what would I do in this thing I don't want
Speaker 1: to know about golf? I said, well, I got an
Speaker 1: idea that I'll pitch to him if it gets that far. Said, well,
Speaker 1: what is it? And I said, well, if if I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do, if I'm going to do to Live, I'm
Speaker 1: going to start over. I need to catch their attention.
Speaker 1: I can't do it like you do it now, where
Speaker 1: you put a couple of announcers up in the deal
Speaker 1: and you play, grab bass up there and you throw
Speaker 1: it down to somebody on the ground. I said, that's
Speaker 1: you know, it's old. It's old. I said, Chuck, here's
Speaker 1: what I have to do. We'll have a camera. Pl
Speaker 1: V is behind five bar stools at a bar. The
Speaker 1: play by play is up on a television, like we
Speaker 1: all watch it at a bar, and it's there. There's
Speaker 1: your there's your there's your video monitor, they say, the
Speaker 1: television set. If you're on air, deal right there, cameras
Speaker 1: behind you. The host is over here, sitting at a
Speaker 1: cocktail table on the left. So we got three guys
Speaker 1: at the bar. I would be on the outside. Check
Speaker 1: you're in the middle, thirty year on the outside too.
Speaker 1: And now they shoot it from that perspective, the back
Speaker 1: of our heads as we're drinking in the bar and
Speaker 1: watching the golf on television. And I said, then we
Speaker 1: have a guest bartender every week, a celebrity, and that
Speaker 1: guy is the foil for all of our jeff as
Speaker 1: you know, the long needles, and we'll get some guys in.
Speaker 1: They're really good. He's a bartender. There's gonna be a
Speaker 1: mop back there, and he will be the guy doing
Speaker 1: all the swings. Uh for the instruction. Hey, you know
Speaker 1: Ben affleck Ben, Ben, take your name Ben, Thank you Ben?
Speaker 1: Grab that mob um. Let me let me Chuck, let me,
Speaker 1: let me show you what Scotty shuffle shuffles does. I said,
Speaker 1: his left arms in the year. Ben, take take that mop.
Speaker 1: Take take that thing and put your leftar way up
Speaker 1: near and say he gets it way up there, and
Speaker 1: then he drops it and then he takes his feet
Speaker 1: and he does a shuffle like this, Ben, do a shuffle.
Speaker 1: So what you do is all that is the Manning cast. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a Manning cast. And we throw at the golf
Speaker 1: and we get three people in there. Chuck loved that
Speaker 1: because he wouldn't have talked about golf. He get sit there,
Speaker 1: and he says, and he told me before he went
Speaker 1: to talk to Norman in Atlanta. He says, I'll get
Speaker 1: I'll get all the celebrities every week to come in
Speaker 1: and sit there. We were going to have the studio
Speaker 1: would be probably Dallas, and we shoot the studio out
Speaker 1: of there and we let the guys travel to Riyad
Speaker 1: and h Bank. I can wearry because I don't want
Speaker 1: to go there. So that was there's there's there's a
Speaker 1: game plan, and that's that's the one that that that
Speaker 1: I came up with just three guys that bore watching
Speaker 1: golf with a with the bartender that everybody's gonna know
Speaker 1: and we can just pound on it from the hotel cast.
Speaker 1: So that's a many casts, and Norman didn't like that.
Speaker 1: I never got to Norman with that. I never got
Speaker 1: that far I got. I've talked to a couple other
Speaker 1: people about it, and they would they thought it was
Speaker 1: very interesting. I thought it was very interesting. A hundred
Speaker 1: years ago, a company that owned the most bars in
Speaker 1: the United States. I don't know what the company is.
Speaker 1: We wanted Ferdy Night to do the Masters, and after
Speaker 1: we left, wanted us to the Masters and call it anyway.
Speaker 1: We wanted to awful live, awful live show and we
Speaker 1: would just overlay and just start talking about it. You
Speaker 1: guys at the bar doing it. And that's where I
Speaker 1: got there. And that was a long time ago, and
Speaker 1: I don't think it. Gusta probably wouldn't let us do
Speaker 1: that anyway safer for I just thinking a wild guess,
Speaker 1: But I think you've got to get it more like that.
Speaker 1: And if if I was do and live, I do
Speaker 1: I have to do something like that. You've got to
Speaker 1: catch your attention. They only got a network yet, right,
Speaker 1: so if you did put it on CW or Fox
Speaker 1: Sports one or whatever they're talking about. At least the
Speaker 1: people are going, did you see how they're doing this thing.
Speaker 1: They've got some guy at the bartender and they're talking
Speaker 1: and drinking and watching golf and talking over and everything else. Um,
Speaker 1: So that that would be my approach to doing something
Speaker 1: like that new and aggressively and have some fun with it. Garry,
Speaker 1: when you were working on Tin Cup, You've you've got
Speaker 1: so much creative energy and so much creative insights. You know,
Speaker 1: you're talking about the sitcoms and how you might do
Speaker 1: a telecast when you're working on Tin Cup. Did you
Speaker 1: bring any of this to the to the set of
Speaker 1: that movie and they use any of it? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of them, a lot of it. I was
Speaker 1: the the technical director of the movie, so I was
Speaker 1: responsible for getting forgetting Kevin Costner to look like he
Speaker 1: looked like he could play a little bit and he
Speaker 1: had a big language swing, you know, and he played
Speaker 1: nine times with this with this father at all, and
Speaker 1: he came into he came into the World Series of
Speaker 1: Golfer at Firestone and we went, Jeff forward to Sharon
Speaker 1: Country Clubs. You ever played there? We took them over
Speaker 1: there in the range, and I brought costas with me
Speaker 1: and we're back there, and you know, he's got this
Speaker 1: big language swings. He's going to be in the movie
Speaker 1: and the script. He's from Salome A, West Texas. Well,
Speaker 1: if my buddies are gonna watch it, and I'm the
Speaker 1: I'm a technical director, and I got a guy from Salome,
Speaker 1: West Texas with the club had gone down about thirty
Speaker 1: degrees past parallel and arms and legs going everywhere. That
Speaker 1: ain't gonna fly. This swaying had. He had a strong grip,
Speaker 1: closed club face, and a short follows that's the only
Speaker 1: way you played golf in West So we started from
Speaker 1: there and then and luckily Ron Shelton and Gary Foster,
Speaker 1: the producer, we've very good friends, so I got I
Speaker 1: got a lot of leeway and who I wanted in
Speaker 1: there and scenes and everything else. So it was it
Speaker 1: was really fun to do. It was boring as hell
Speaker 1: because you're on the set. I was still working, I
Speaker 1: was playing, and I was also doing this movie. And
Speaker 1: I had to be all over the place as a
Speaker 1: technical director every day, um shooting this thing, or go
Speaker 1: play somewhere and come back and have a guy there
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. But it was it was it
Speaker 1: was that creative process, Michael, is what you're asking. I loved.
Speaker 1: I loved because I had I had some control over
Speaker 1: all the golf stuff. Okay, and not the rewriting. But
Speaker 1: we put a lot of stuff and I said, you
Speaker 1: know this, that that that, it looks better if you
Speaker 1: did this or that. Um. So it was fun. It
Speaker 1: was fun. I don't know if I'd have the energy
Speaker 1: to do it again because it was the early cast.
Speaker 1: Calls were six thirty in the morning. If you were
Speaker 1: shooting early in the late ones or one thirty, and
Speaker 1: you're there all day, all day, I'll get I'll give
Speaker 1: you one with the bar scene with the pelican, and
Speaker 1: Ron got that. I did that actually in Pensacola. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of the scenes in the movie. I
Speaker 1: did that Ron, and I didn't know when he was
Speaker 1: writing it. I didn't even know him that So when
Speaker 1: I got the script, I read it and I went,
Speaker 1: what the hell I did this? Ship? How does he
Speaker 1: know about this? So I called him up and he
Speaker 1: flew out the veil Colorado Edwards, Colorado, where I lived
Speaker 1: in the summer. He flew out in Kevin's airplane and
Speaker 1: we just played golf. I took him up hiking about
Speaker 1: killed him a couple of times and just drank and
Speaker 1: we talked about the movie or anything, what he wanted
Speaker 1: to do, and it was it was really cool. I said, man,
Speaker 1: I man, I'll do this. And and so from there
Speaker 1: I got a very good relationship with it with the
Speaker 1: three guys that are running it. So we kind of
Speaker 1: just you know, got in and and acted out all
Speaker 1: of the stuff. And the pelican scene, um I was.
Speaker 1: It was a Penscola and it was me Ed Sneed,
Speaker 1: Bill Calfi and John Schroder staying in the conda. And
Speaker 1: it's a rain out for the day, so we go back.
Speaker 1: We're playing gin for in this kindo in my bedrooms
Speaker 1: in the back down the hallway. So I go back there,
Speaker 1: take a leak and come back out and then look
Speaker 1: at this pelican. We were on a we're on a canal,
Speaker 1: and we had a wharf going out in his publican
Speaker 1: laying on the big post and the deal. I'm look
Speaker 1: and like we're gambling anyway. My clubs are right there,
Speaker 1: and I say, hey, guys, you give me ten shots
Speaker 1: from the bedroom and I'll betch you I can knock
Speaker 1: that publican office perch, and they're all looking down. They
Speaker 1: go game on and money starts slamming down. So I
Speaker 1: had to move a couple of furniture, move a light,
Speaker 1: had to open the sliding glass doors, and I had
Speaker 1: about thirty yards of hallway to go through until I
Speaker 1: I got to the to the main room and then
Speaker 1: out the double and then double doors over the wood railing,
Speaker 1: and then there was another seventy five, the hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty shot. Well, I got back there and the thing
Speaker 1: and I'm looking, I'm going, what the hell? How do you?
Speaker 1: How do you take a club? And Jeff, it was
Speaker 1: a fore iron? How do I do that? I gotta
Speaker 1: hit down, I gotta cut it, to spind it, to
Speaker 1: get it up in the air, to fly this thing
Speaker 1: without taking a divot out of the carpet, because I
Speaker 1: didn't have any money at the time, and if I
Speaker 1: if I ruined the carpet, that's gonna be expensive. And
Speaker 1: if I pull it, I'm gonna hit one of the
Speaker 1: sliding glass doors. So all of a sudden, this wasn't
Speaker 1: very much fun. So I got us everybody out here.
Speaker 1: It comes and open the doors up and I took
Speaker 1: a four and I went down my short arm and
Speaker 1: my left arm and clipped it and just cut across anyway.
Speaker 1: And I missed the wall about that much on the left,
Speaker 1: and it's going through the bed or there in the
Speaker 1: main room now front room, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it starts to cut and I'm going right at these
Speaker 1: glass sliding glass doors and missed it by about that much,
Speaker 1: went over the rail lane. I look up and it's
Speaker 1: going right at this freaking pelican and then went over
Speaker 1: about one foot, right over the top of his head
Speaker 1: and he flew gone. I went nuts one shot back
Speaker 1: bedroom and I No one knew about this, nobody. And
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this in the movie going and I
Speaker 1: called run. I say, where'd you get this? He goes,
Speaker 1: I got a Golf World you were on art. I said, bullshit.
Speaker 1: So he sat in the article. I don't know who
Speaker 1: wrote it. I don't know how they found out. One
Speaker 1: of the other guys wants to told him. So that
Speaker 1: Pelican scene. We go there and it's a fake bar
Speaker 1: that they put on this country club they built to
Speaker 1: about a week unbelievable. And we're sitting in there and
Speaker 1: this is a big deal because I've got I've got
Speaker 1: Renee Russo sitting there, I got Kevin, I got everybody
Speaker 1: else in the movie. I've got Cheatches in there, everything else.
Speaker 1: And I got this line that's a paragraph. So I
Speaker 1: go in and I study all night and I'm studied
Speaker 1: and study it and it's a paragraph. And I mean,
Speaker 1: they're hard to do anyway, but when you've got real
Speaker 1: actors there, you don't look like an idiot. So we
Speaker 1: start and we shoot four five hours and we get
Speaker 1: done at one thirty and nothing's done. The lighting is wrong,
Speaker 1: the cameras are wrong, and I'm hitting this line every
Speaker 1: time lunch right for lunch, we're gonna start. We gotta
Speaker 1: do something else. So I come in here. Renee Russo
Speaker 1: comes over and she puts out of it, and she goes,
Speaker 1: and who are you? And I said, I'm I'm Gary
Speaker 1: McCord um. She says, you're not an actor, right and
Speaker 1: doing good? I go, no, I go no, Renee, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm a golf professional and I'm her her husband played golf.
Speaker 1: I'm a golf professional and I'm just the I'm in
Speaker 1: the movie. And I'm also the technical director. So that's
Speaker 1: I go, why why don't you think I'm an actor?
Speaker 1: Now I'm going, well, god damn it, why why did
Speaker 1: you think I'm an actor? And she goes, well, Garrett,
Speaker 1: she says, I knew you weren't an actor when you
Speaker 1: hit your first line and you nail it, and you
Speaker 1: hit it again for five hours, and I go, okay,
Speaker 1: what She goes, okay, when you get a script, we
Speaker 1: don't even look at the script because we know this first,
Speaker 1: this scene, which took three days, it's a minute and
Speaker 1: a half of the movie, a minute forty This scene
Speaker 1: took three days. And she says, HER's out. I said,
Speaker 1: tell me how it works. She goes, you get in there,
Speaker 1: you got your script read over here, and they go okay, Renee,
Speaker 1: and you go a script read what's my line? She says.
Speaker 1: It will take a day and a half for these
Speaker 1: people to get the lighting, to get the camera slide
Speaker 1: in the right way, to get everything perfect, and then
Speaker 1: the last half a day, and the last day is
Speaker 1: when you need the line and you gotta know it.
Speaker 1: So you got two and a half days to learn
Speaker 1: the line. We never even looked at the script. So
Speaker 1: the rest of the movie that really helped because I
Speaker 1: never even I just you know, like a big time
Speaker 1: guy script and they go, okay, I gotta and you
Speaker 1: go and she was right. By the time you got done,
Speaker 1: you were so tired of that line you could say
Speaker 1: it upside out backwards. I don't know what the question
Speaker 1: was that. The question is about memorial I think, um no,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Yeah. I don't know if you ever
Speaker 1: looked at your Wikipedia Gary, but it says, um, you
Speaker 1: appeared in tin Cup, a movie he says is based
Speaker 1: on his life. Is are we? I mean, obviously they picked,
Speaker 1: but it was based it was based on your life
Speaker 1: John Jacobs, and not John Jacobs. Jeff knows the teacher
Speaker 1: John Jacobs. Who is Jeff? How would you how how
Speaker 1: would you define j j um golf? He's right there,
Speaker 1: close to one of the best players I've ever applied with,
Speaker 1: easily better. Little uh I didn't have the discip, didn't
Speaker 1: really have a self discipline guest. I've known him since
Speaker 1: we've been one. I think we won't have been arrested once,
Speaker 1: and that was in Tijuana. But that's just another long story.
Speaker 1: We have time, we have time I've been with it's
Speaker 1: so many of these these things that he's got into. UM.
Speaker 1: The other day, we're talking on the radar. I remember
Speaker 1: I usually hear most of them, right, I'm talking to
Speaker 1: j J. And JJ was six ft to pounds um,
Speaker 1: long hair, good looking guy. Hit it miles. He had
Speaker 1: a standing bet with Jim Debt of ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: any place, anytime, long drive, anytime, and Debt couldn't have
Speaker 1: beat him. He would hit it farther anybody've ever seen
Speaker 1: with wooden clubs and everything else, and and JJ would.
Speaker 1: So we're talking and he goes and we go down,
Speaker 1: and he called me when Evil Kneedle came into town
Speaker 1: at La Costa. I lived in Escondida, which is about
Speaker 1: minute drive, and he and he and Evil were good buddies.
Speaker 1: And Evil, for whatever reason, love to lose on the
Speaker 1: golf course. And I mean love to lose. I mean
Speaker 1: We've got in the first tea at LaCosta and here
Speaker 1: was the game. There was a money game whatever it
Speaker 1: was for it, but if you hit a tree you
Speaker 1: had to pay the other guys in the group five
Speaker 1: thousand apiece. This was this was a while ago. This
Speaker 1: is a seventies what five thousand apiece? I t the
Speaker 1: ball that high and I just burned it right along
Speaker 1: the ground. Never got it in the air because Evil
Speaker 1: is all over the places and trees everywhere. I don't
Speaker 1: always settle for half. I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: But Evil got to lose money one time. Uh. And
Speaker 1: JJ is saying this on the air. He says, I
Speaker 1: beat I beat Evil out of a hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: five thou And he said he was there for fourteen
Speaker 1: days at LaCosta, and he said about fifteenth day he
Speaker 1: comes up to him. Evil comes up to j J
Speaker 1: and says, hey, I gotta go to New Orleans and
Speaker 1: I broke. So JJ gives him seventy five grand, okay,
Speaker 1: and he says this in the air. I go, what
Speaker 1: you know, he's not gonna say, you actually get me collateral? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he gave me something, but I never I never looked
Speaker 1: at it. And I gave the money I knew was
Speaker 1: gonna I knew if I'd never seen it again. So
Speaker 1: then he says, you know, and he says, finally, I'm
Speaker 1: on the parking lot one day, back behind the condos
Speaker 1: there where Evil said he left me something. So he said,
Speaker 1: I wart to go see what the hell? Listen a
Speaker 1: month two months afterwards, and he goes back there and
Speaker 1: he sees, uh, there's a car there. It's got a
Speaker 1: tarp over it. So he undoes it and there is
Speaker 1: Evil Kinevil's do you ever, guys remember seeing his studs barkat?
Speaker 1: Just all you gotta do is go and google and
Speaker 1: look at Evil kinevil car And there is Evil with
Speaker 1: a stuts barkat. This is the damnedest thing you've ever seen.
Speaker 1: This car is outfitted with it is it is? It's
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy I think it's a seventy six. And
Speaker 1: it was Evil's car, Evil's car And I go, ho,
Speaker 1: he gave you that? Or you kidding? And he goes yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's next to it. He says there was his trailer.
Speaker 1: And he said there's another tarp on it. So he
Speaker 1: said he gave me that to whatever it was. And
Speaker 1: he says, this is JJ telling the story. He takes
Speaker 1: off the tar and he's looking at and he's telling me.
Speaker 1: He goes, it was it was. It was all broken
Speaker 1: and it was just a bunch of metal and it
Speaker 1: was a thing. And he signed it for me and
Speaker 1: I said a rocket and he goes, yeah, wait about it.
Speaker 1: That was the rocket he went all over the Snake River. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. I go, well, ship, So we started going
Speaker 1: nuts now and we while we're on here, we call
Speaker 1: up eBay or something got eBay to see how much
Speaker 1: those two things would be worth the day on eBay
Speaker 1: and it was somewhere around five to six million. Okay,
Speaker 1: j J. Where'd they go? Ah? He said? A week
Speaker 1: later he said, I had a bad run at del
Speaker 1: Mar with the horses. And he said, I had a
Speaker 1: buddy of miners in the salvages business. So I gave
Speaker 1: him to him for four grand was spur. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you gave him the that went over the day for
Speaker 1: four grade? Yeah yeah, he said. I lost that the
Speaker 1: next day to have the track. So it was just
Speaker 1: a storyline. It's just just said, it's just just unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You just you can't gather up all the stories. So anyway,
Speaker 1: the movie was about lay there's a lot of j
Speaker 1: J do my stories. So we're back into you one,
Speaker 1: and now what were yours? This? When I, um, we're
Speaker 1: playing in Mexicano, JJ and myself and j J lives LaCosta.
Speaker 1: I live over there, he called me, and then we're
Speaker 1: in the last group together and there's one group behind us.
Speaker 1: We're playing pretty good for the Mexican Open. So he goes,
Speaker 1: come on over and he says, I'll drive you over there. Well,
Speaker 1: j J never had a car ever, never had a car.
Speaker 1: And I'm where he got his stuff. Um, guy gave
Speaker 1: him a condo there LaCosta. His brother ran it. He
Speaker 1: was a golf pro, Tommy. So we go there. He's
Speaker 1: got something. He's got a black fire. Remember where we
Speaker 1: got it. So we get the clubs to get here.
Speaker 1: We go. Now, we get and as you know, if
Speaker 1: you guys been into Juanna lately or this was thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. So they got a bunch of traffic. They
Speaker 1: got traffic circles. Okay, they got traffic circles. Now, J
Speaker 1: J j J was well looped by the time I
Speaker 1: got there at his house. I got to his house
Speaker 1: at seven thirty in the morning, and he had he
Speaker 1: had one of those big gulps you know about like
Speaker 1: that you got at seven eleven and it flared at
Speaker 1: the top, and that was all full of bias and
Speaker 1: straight vodka and he's driving, drinking, driving, drinking. We go
Speaker 1: and we get one of those circles and he gets
Speaker 1: he gets some somehow, somehow he got to going to
Speaker 1: the circle and returned. And now he's in the structor.
Speaker 1: He's going the wrong way. He's going against the flow, okay,
Speaker 1: and so he's going the wrong way and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, here comes the lights behind his Dan Dean
Speaker 1: and I went, uh Jesus. And he looked at me
Speaker 1: and he goes, we had a problem. I go what.
Speaker 1: He goes, My LISSN has expired twelve years ago. I
Speaker 1: said what he said, Yeah, but I think I can
Speaker 1: get out of it. And I go, oh God. So
Speaker 1: I know. He goes back and JJ's m O was
Speaker 1: with the cops that he would lean on the car
Speaker 1: and not let him out before they got out, so
Speaker 1: they have to roll the window down. And he was
Speaker 1: talking to him this one it's a great move. He
Speaker 1: did it every time. I don't know how he did it.
Speaker 1: And so he's talking to this company. I've got the
Speaker 1: I've got the mirror, mirror and I tilted it. I'm
Speaker 1: sweating like a dog because we're going to go to
Speaker 1: Mexican jail. I'm in Tijuana. This is not gonna end well.
Speaker 1: And he's going like this and like this, and I oh.
Speaker 1: And he comes back in the car and said, and
Speaker 1: go hold on. And he gets out. He's got his
Speaker 1: big gulp on the top of the car and he
Speaker 1: grabs it and he takes a dry and toast the cop. Okay,
Speaker 1: not good, okay, and we're running late. Now I get
Speaker 1: into the first steam. So now the next thing, he
Speaker 1: gets in the car and he goes, hang on, we've
Speaker 1: got an escar. I go, hell, woud you tell him?
Speaker 1: I said, well, this would be an international event because
Speaker 1: either you or are going to win this event for
Speaker 1: their national opening golf. And if we don't get there
Speaker 1: in time, it is gonna be on you, the cop.
Speaker 1: That's what he's stilling the cop. So here we go
Speaker 1: through back roads into sirens going and everything else, and
Speaker 1: we got there. And so we get done. J J Jeff.
Speaker 1: The second first hold to you want to come to
Speaker 1: a dog light to the right goes down and the
Speaker 1: next hole comes up. I'll join it. We go down
Speaker 1: the cart path on one and pulls right just about
Speaker 1: fall out of the cart and he drives down and
Speaker 1: he goes down as a barkhart. It's a red single
Speaker 1: front wheel drive Barkhart, you know all of it's got
Speaker 1: all the wood in the back of the plywood and
Speaker 1: get stuff. And he gave him fifty bucks. And the
Speaker 1: red cart was never more than three ft wherever we went,
Speaker 1: the red cart was behind us, and j G was
Speaker 1: plowed cloud. He couldn't see. In fact, at the last
Speaker 1: three holes he would get out and I'd have to
Speaker 1: club him. And I'm playing, I'm in the tournament. We
Speaker 1: can't give I can't give advice or the Then we
Speaker 1: get out and I had walked by when he was
Speaker 1: fiddling through his bag. I go seven iron money and
Speaker 1: I was reading his putts. I've walked behind him three
Speaker 1: ft out to the right down hill and he ends
Speaker 1: up in a tie with Mark File. So we get done,
Speaker 1: and we were sitting there and the term of director
Speaker 1: comes up and he goes, we're on the tea, where's
Speaker 1: your buddy? I can't find him. Oh God, hold on,
Speaker 1: So I running the bar. He's got his face down
Speaker 1: on the bar. He's just gone. He's gone. He's out.
Speaker 1: So I said, I totally got just give me ten
Speaker 1: and it's time in install. So we get him coffee
Speaker 1: and everything else. He gets on the first, I'm catting
Speaker 1: for him now the term catting for him. And he
Speaker 1: gets gets on the first tee, he takes us three
Speaker 1: with out. He can't see the ground and he hit
Speaker 1: the ball. It's just the end of the team and
Speaker 1: he's laughing like he gets up now the whole three sixty.
Speaker 1: He gets up, takes us three with uh, gives it
Speaker 1: a mighty whack and hits it on the green. He
Speaker 1: just hit a three forty the great off the tea.
Speaker 1: It's a little dog like that, right, it rolled along? Wait,
Speaker 1: get a three on the green. He went bogey bogey,
Speaker 1: double bogie and lost the Mexican Open with the double
Speaker 1: bogey mark bogey the hall and that was it. And
Speaker 1: then I had to drive him home in his firebird
Speaker 1: and we didn't get arrested that time, but we got
Speaker 1: really close. And that was Mexican Open, Tijuana Country Club.
Speaker 1: Well those are the days, people. I thought he was
Speaker 1: gonna kill me, but he never did. And now and
Speaker 1: now the tour is so corporate and different like Jefferent
Speaker 1: in those days, God almighty, we're we're out of a
Speaker 1: conversation the other day. But well, basically the tour now
Speaker 1: in their reaction to Live is basically lining up like
Speaker 1: Live is. And our tour started and it was top
Speaker 1: sixty for a long time when I came on the tour.
Speaker 1: And then um, I got the bright idea to do
Speaker 1: the all exempt tours, so I readed the tour all
Speaker 1: Exempt Tour in six to allow more guys to be
Speaker 1: able to play instead of sixty knowing where they're going. Uh,
Speaker 1: we allowed a d The number was um I can remember,
Speaker 1: and I did this in eighty six. Took me about
Speaker 1: seven weeks to do it. It's the tour were qualifiers
Speaker 1: and no one know it was gonna afford to go home.
Speaker 1: So we're just there was a better in existence of
Speaker 1: guys going from one qualifying site to the next. We're
Speaker 1: never allowed on the on the site until te off time.
Speaker 1: He couldn't go to Sunday, so we'd have to disappear
Speaker 1: somewhere and go and uh. And that was allowing the
Speaker 1: tour to become more socialistic and involving more players to
Speaker 1: be able to plan a consistent paces. And now they're
Speaker 1: basically Jeff, as you know, they've redone it now now
Speaker 1: they're going back to seventy, so that two are now
Speaker 1: they're basically going back into the womb uh and catering
Speaker 1: to the top guys, top guys to counteract Live. So
Speaker 1: it's an interesting it's an interesting deal. Like, what would
Speaker 1: be your advice to Monahan to try to continue to
Speaker 1: be the supreme tour in golf? Is it? Is it
Speaker 1: even a worthy goal? What? What would be what Monahan
Speaker 1: calls you? He says, Gary Bin this game a long time.
Speaker 1: What should I be doing? Well? He is? He is,
Speaker 1: he's very reactive and he wasn't proactive and that that's
Speaker 1: that that's the problem because now he's been dictated by
Speaker 1: um by Live on what he's doing. You can you
Speaker 1: can see what they're doing. They're doing the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: Live is. Um Jay is in a precarious spot because
Speaker 1: the changes occurred when two guys outside of the system
Speaker 1: decided to have a meeting with twenty four other guys
Speaker 1: that were in the system to change the system. When
Speaker 1: he's supposed to do that. He's he's the guy that's
Speaker 1: supposed to be leading the tour of the players in
Speaker 1: the direction he thinks fit. So Tiger, Tiger and Rory
Speaker 1: come in and they decide that they're going to go
Speaker 1: in we're gonna have elevated events, and we're gonna have
Speaker 1: the top guys playing all the tournaments together and kill
Speaker 1: them with, you know, a blunt force trauma basically to counteract. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine so far as decision making has been from
Speaker 1: the players and not him and the board. That's an
Speaker 1: interesting because now you've got a dereliction of authority. Authority
Speaker 1: has now changed, it's transferred without really any meetings anything
Speaker 1: going on. I found that interesting. M The next thing
Speaker 1: you've got is money. Jay has got a if this
Speaker 1: thing goes to court, which it is at this point
Speaker 1: going to go to court. Um. I think you've got
Speaker 1: a seven to ten year process. According to the other
Speaker 1: antitrust stuff that we've had, it is going to be laborious.
Speaker 1: And in this process is discovery. And at the discovery
Speaker 1: is anything which I think Live is trying to push
Speaker 1: it to, and that is the tourist taxis and status
Speaker 1: of a five oh one C six or We're supposed
Speaker 1: to enter the year with nothing and then come out
Speaker 1: fire in the next year and try to in with
Speaker 1: nothing to get that status. Uh, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: money floating around that. Phil actually said there was and
Speaker 1: it came to be, and there's a lot of money
Speaker 1: being piled on. I understand the media right kicked in.
Speaker 1: They're getting seven sixty million a year from that through
Speaker 1: two thirty. But in discovery there's gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: of things that I don't think the tour wants the I, R,
Speaker 1: S and d J to know about my opinion. And
Speaker 1: if that comes out, I think they're gonna be flinching.
Speaker 1: If they lose their task exempt status as a tour,
Speaker 1: they're in trouble. They're in serious trouble. You can't it
Speaker 1: would be like, okay, I'm I'm a Scott Stalward Phoenix Open. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now the tour has redone. You've got to have an
Speaker 1: ownership like the NFL. Okay, so they somebody owns Thunderbirds
Speaker 1: on the They only the golf tournament and they got
Speaker 1: to pay all these guys now to show up at
Speaker 1: their golf tournament to come all the infrastructure has got
Speaker 1: to be paid for revenue. They've got to create theirselves.
Speaker 1: They don't have any meteorite thing at this point. Volunteers,
Speaker 1: you got volunteers. You gotta pay them all. Wow, man,
Speaker 1: that every week to do that? That would be a
Speaker 1: nose plate for the tour. And I gotta assume, I
Speaker 1: gotta assume that the saudisn't live are looking right at
Speaker 1: that in in this uh, in this litigation that's going
Speaker 1: to go on for ever, and it's gonna get some
Speaker 1: monotonous and soltitious and it's the separation is already there.
Speaker 1: It's the separation is huge, like the San Andreas broke open,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna get worse. It's gonna get worse and
Speaker 1: worse and worse. So I don't like the direction it's gone.
Speaker 1: I hope that there is some calmer heads take over
Speaker 1: and everybody is allowed to live in the same not
Speaker 1: that live l I v E live in the same
Speaker 1: in the same golf environment. And we have a world tour,
Speaker 1: which is already is anyway, but let's have a world tour.
Speaker 1: Let's have these guys want to play twenty five events, Fine,
Speaker 1: let's events a million DP. You get, you get, you
Speaker 1: get a bunch, tour gets more UM Latin America, you
Speaker 1: get some Asian, you get some live, you get some
Speaker 1: and everybody play and then there'll be a secondary tour
Speaker 1: under that UM and that's a fee or tour to
Speaker 1: get in, but we can't do that now. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure Live would like to do that, but I don't
Speaker 1: think the guy run and Live right now is up
Speaker 1: to having a nice meeting of calmer minds. I just
Speaker 1: don't think that's going to happen. My boy Greg's in
Speaker 1: that that position, but I think that has that has
Speaker 1: to happen. We can't have this thing go to court
Speaker 1: and set in court for ten years. They're canna do
Speaker 1: nobody good, nobody any good. My opinion, well, that that's
Speaker 1: an invaluable one, because yeah, don't I'm not sure people
Speaker 1: recognize your role in creating the All Exempt Tour and
Speaker 1: so you've you've been following the politics and bureaucracy of
Speaker 1: this stuff for a super long time, so that that's
Speaker 1: definitely an interesting point of view. Before before we we
Speaker 1: send we send you off into the night, Gary, what's
Speaker 1: the best story that you're sitting on you've never told
Speaker 1: on the airwaves? Play? What's one good thing you can
Speaker 1: give the listeners? This is your mic drop? Come on,
Speaker 1: I know we're putting on the spot here, but you've
Speaker 1: gotta be sitting on some some gold. Okay, Um, where
Speaker 1: Charlotte it is a humid, humid, hot day, tarzan like,
Speaker 1: and it's a Saturday, and Tiger is in the second
Speaker 1: to last group and making a run and out with
Speaker 1: Tiger is David Ear on the ground. And so we're
Speaker 1: out there now. When we go to commercial break, everybody
Speaker 1: in the tower. Director comes on. He goes, Peter you there,
Speaker 1: and Peter, yes, here are you there? Like what what?
Speaker 1: Who's talking to? And then everybody's got there their signatures
Speaker 1: saying to come on, okay that I'm there. When they
Speaker 1: got the Charity Ferrety's signature is, as you know, Jeff,
Speaker 1: charity is is he is enveloped in gas. Okay, he
Speaker 1: has a flatulence problem and it is prolific how good
Speaker 1: he is and how he can coordinate flatulence. Two songs
Speaker 1: to everything. So he puts the microphone down and he
Speaker 1: just pops one. That's everybody knows and now we don't.
Speaker 1: It's just you hear that, okay, David here, okay, but
Speaker 1: David at this time and the winning and then when anyway,
Speaker 1: Oh so now he's on fifteen and we go now
Speaker 1: and let's say, okay, let's let's go now, let's go
Speaker 1: back to seventeen and I'm thinking, oh, what the hell
Speaker 1: is So we go to the six and I'm looking.
Speaker 1: It's a it's at the Kemper there and so Jeff,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just that straight, slight dog like to
Speaker 1: the right part four and I can I can see
Speaker 1: the tea from my tower there, and I'm looking at
Speaker 1: him and he had khaki pants on when he started around.
Speaker 1: And now I looked down and he's got he's got
Speaker 1: brain pants on, and I go, okay, this is good,
Speaker 1: so now get the binoculars. Get it. So we got
Speaker 1: binoculars up there, and and he's walking off the tea
Speaker 1: and he is splay footed. His hell, okay, it looks
Speaker 1: like wise colf walking. Okay, toes are going outward and
Speaker 1: he's walking kind of damn, he shipped his pants. This
Speaker 1: is is hot. It is ugly, and he's with Tiger.
Speaker 1: So now we're sitting there, I'm watching him. I'm watching
Speaker 1: he goes in the trees on the right and he
Speaker 1: can't get anywhere because they're twenty deep right watching Tiger.
Speaker 1: So he's over there and the balls, the ball is
Speaker 1: a good eight yards from where he is, and I go, David,
Speaker 1: I said, I know you're down there looking at that lie.
Speaker 1: What's it look like? I look up and he gives
Speaker 1: me the finger. Okay, he's done the middle of people
Speaker 1: and he gets here the finger, So I got him.
Speaker 1: Now he knows that I know he shipped his pants,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't want to go anywhere. So get up
Speaker 1: and and you know it makes up something about the
Speaker 1: lie and he hits it about fifteen feet Okay, So
Speaker 1: David doesn't move, he stays underneath the trees way back there.
Speaker 1: You don't want to walk for obvious reasons, so get
Speaker 1: out his pot. Tigger has got about a fifteen foot
Speaker 1: and he's kind of he's kind of tiger walking around
Speaker 1: looking and I gotta but I know you got down
Speaker 1: early and looked at this. Now we've got the camera
Speaker 1: right behind the ball and you could see it it is.
Speaker 1: We've got what that what I call warm camp then
Speaker 1: and sitting on the ground looking you can see the
Speaker 1: break and it's a break of about five six inches
Speaker 1: right the left. David goes and he goes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think this punch should go about three or four inches
Speaker 1: to the right. I said, really, okay, Kenny, we know
Speaker 1: we had a picture of it. It goes right. He goes, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. So now we waddle off and
Speaker 1: we go play. He goes and play seventeen and eighteen.
Speaker 1: Now everybody now knows, and including Lands, our director Lance
Speaker 1: Borow fairly gets done and the compound is right above
Speaker 1: the green, it's only about sixty yards away. David gets done,
Speaker 1: Tiger puts out, David starts hauling up the hill. It's
Speaker 1: got to change his pants and everything else. Lands goes
Speaker 1: David holding stay there and get an interview from Tiger.
Speaker 1: So we go to commercial break and the camera locks
Speaker 1: it on. There's three of them and he's got and
Speaker 1: David David is on one side, Tigers in the middle,
Speaker 1: and Stevie Williams on the other. So we keep the
Speaker 1: camera on and we keep and they take the commercial
Speaker 1: off of our air feed, and we're watching this and
Speaker 1: we're sitting there. We're wondering when Tiger is gonna say something.
Speaker 1: So we go and the next thing you hear is
Speaker 1: Tiger and Tiger haste to do interviews. Hates it, doesn't
Speaker 1: want to stay around to do any of these interviews.
Speaker 1: Especially He's gotta wait, David, how long we got to
Speaker 1: get on this commercial? David Lance Lance. Tiger wants to
Speaker 1: know how long if we're down here, there's seconds Tigers
Speaker 1: all right, all right? So they shut down again and
Speaker 1: the commercials going and Tiger you see him, Jesus God, Stevie, what,
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything? And he turns to Dave. It
Speaker 1: and his heads serving like this going around, and David
Speaker 1: meets him. His head goes, that's way. He says, I
Speaker 1: shot myself on fifteen. Tiger goes, what and he jumps
Speaker 1: out of the way. He jumps backwards away from it,
Speaker 1: and now Alans goes, let's go down to David. He's
Speaker 1: got Tiger Woods, Tigers. He's running away from it. David's
Speaker 1: got the mic. He's trying to get an interview his
Speaker 1: pants and fort crap, and Tiger and Stevie are running
Speaker 1: like hell and he can't get the interview. And it
Speaker 1: was it was it looked like the three stooges out
Speaker 1: there really did. So that's that's a story behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of David Ship and his pants uh on a
Speaker 1: hot day with Tiger in an interview, and Tiger smelled it.
Speaker 1: It was really bad. Yes, really, So that's the way
Speaker 1: television goes. I'm not sure if I'm glad you told
Speaker 1: that story or not, but it's out there. Yeah, exactly
Speaker 1: wanted a story. So that's a story I used, had
Speaker 1: a lot of speeches. I can go twenty minutes on that.
Speaker 1: For a quick addenda. That story as it relates to
Speaker 1: Gary's uh former colleague, longtime CBS newsman, Walter Cronkite. Do
Speaker 1: you ever meet him? Gary? I I did not, but
Speaker 1: Frank chick Kenyan was his onset director at CBS. UH
Speaker 1: in news with Walter, and that's one when did When
Speaker 1: did Walter die? There's a certain age so like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would get mid lady. Yeah, I didn't know this.
Speaker 1: This where his CBS newsman Walter Cronkites three rules of life,
Speaker 1: as it relates to this conversation, Uh, never trust a fart,
Speaker 1: never turned down a drink, and never ignore interaction. That
Speaker 1: would be yeah, yeah, from speaking for old announcers, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be a pretty good three. Doble a. Clearly
Speaker 1: it's time to end this podcast. Uh Gar, You've been
Speaker 1: a great sport. Thank you, Thank you for your time,
Speaker 1: um and all all the stories. Jeff any any parting
Speaker 1: words for you? Your former pigeon out at that whisper no, No,
Speaker 1: that was great magic. Thank you. Um, I've heard most
Speaker 1: of them before, but it's always good fun. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he'll give me, he'll give me five and I can't
Speaker 1: beat him, and so much when you get back a
Speaker 1: few weeks probably so I really opened sometimes so we'll say, yeah,
Speaker 1: bring bring me twenty. Well that was a journey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just gotta push play right, You're just gonna ask
Speaker 1: one question and you get whatever you want from Gary.
Speaker 1: He's uh, but I tell you he's nobody is more
Speaker 1: passionate and enthusiastic about golf and the tour and the
Speaker 1: whole sport. And um moost guys who grew up and
Speaker 1: played in his era. Would traditional gods are? Are Are? They
Speaker 1: like metal sparks and passimmon woods and bladas. It was
Speaker 1: so much better in Maday. But he's not like that
Speaker 1: at all. He embraces every year as it comes along.
Speaker 1: He just froths on golf every day the year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's fantastic. And his story he's got more stories, and
Speaker 1: he's he's fair. He's he's had this magnetism for the
Speaker 1: characters that have played golf in the last fifty years.
Speaker 1: He's always hanging around the characters Mac O'Grady and John
Speaker 1: Jacobs and um does magic tricks in the bar. And yeah,
Speaker 1: he's an entertainer. He's fantastic. I missed I missed him
Speaker 1: on the airwaves too. He just see he made it fun,
Speaker 1: as he was saying, I mean, it's it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be fun. It's an entertainment product. And of course it's
Speaker 1: serious and it's meaningful, but the viewers at home want
Speaker 1: to be entertained. I always thought he was great at it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry we don't get more of them.
Speaker 1: He also showed it and uh, I've been reminded this
Speaker 1: occasionally over the years, but you didn't see it on TV. Really,
Speaker 1: he's got a lot of moves in this game. I
Speaker 1: mean he played obviously a really high level, or he
Speaker 1: would not have one of the tours where he won.
Speaker 1: And of course he's a he's a wonderful storyteller, and
Speaker 1: he's he's knowing everybody and appreciates people who aren't really
Speaker 1: famous the game, like a John Jacobs. But then when
Speaker 1: he got in the weeds of talking about you know,
Speaker 1: the money and and live p J Tour and how
Speaker 1: it relates to versus the sixty or the other way around,
Speaker 1: you should probably say it. He's got a really sharp
Speaker 1: mind and a really big grasp. But it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: to hear him describe himself as as dyslexic, but you know,
Speaker 1: with that dyslexia often comes a lot of creativity and
Speaker 1: interesting ways of looking at things. And uh, it's neat.
Speaker 1: It was neat to listen to him all these different
Speaker 1: moves moves that he has. Honestly, I love hang out
Speaker 1: with Mac for twelve hours straight takes a uh. I
Speaker 1: mean I actually love his idea for for telecasting live
Speaker 1: events like that. Would that would be a major improvement
Speaker 1: because now they're trying to do it like the tour
Speaker 1: does it, but just it's not they're not too in
Speaker 1: it as well, you know, but like to completely blow
Speaker 1: up the whole medium. I mean a a McCord charity
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley, I mean, it's guaranteed to be entertaining. Didn't
Speaker 1: reflect well on Greg Norman. That that that Greg Gorman
Speaker 1: couldn't take twenty minutes to hear Gary McCord out guy
Speaker 1: who's got thirty five years in TV to hear what
Speaker 1: would you do with your TV broadcast? It's wild. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I would. I would spend the thirty minutes
Speaker 1: listening to him. I mean that, Yeah, that could be
Speaker 1: a game, right, I mean, if you put a camera on,
Speaker 1: keep bringing up Whisbrock. But he's remember he's the he's
Speaker 1: in the guys every day at whist Brock. But if
Speaker 1: you watch the golf on the weekend at west Brock
Speaker 1: and you just put a tyble on, you put a
Speaker 1: camera on the table where he was sitting in a
Speaker 1: few are the other guys. That's why more entertaining than
Speaker 1: what we get on TV. It's and it's it's how
Speaker 1: we all watch golf rock, don't we sort of want
Speaker 1: to hear intelligent Lewis fun chat about what's going on.
Speaker 1: We don't need to tell someone that God just hold
Speaker 1: the six foot because we just saw it with our os.
Speaker 1: Just give us conversation over the top. That's real fun.
Speaker 1: It would be fantastic entertainment, even if it was non official.
Speaker 1: You know, you could like the Manning thing, You could
Speaker 1: just put a camera on experts and let him talk
Speaker 1: about it and be fantastic. Yeah, I love it. I
Speaker 1: love it. Gary McCord, what a guy. He just strikes
Speaker 1: him as someone who's got no plan for the day.
Speaker 1: He's gonna wake up and see what the dame rings is.
Speaker 1: My impression is that would that be about it, right, Chef?
Speaker 1: That's pretty true. Yeah, he's always he just he gets
Speaker 1: excited about things like if you present him with something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wakes up, what's going to happen now and someone
Speaker 1: presents him with something, or if his phone rings and
Speaker 1: someone calls him with something interesting. Interesting things just happened
Speaker 1: to him, um or he turned he makes them interesting.
Speaker 1: That happened to all of us. But he he grabs
Speaker 1: the thread and takes it and makes it interesting. He'll
Speaker 1: turn up to he'll turn up to the golf club
Speaker 1: with this manuscript of some sort of golf machine guy
Speaker 1: who has done a thesis on the golfing from a
Speaker 1: physics perspective, and it will be this binder with all
Speaker 1: this loose leaf stuck in it that's foes and he'll
Speaker 1: be going through it saying se Max said this was
Speaker 1: true too, and this guy scientifically proved it. And then
Speaker 1: the next day he'll be coming down with some prototype.
Speaker 1: He was sort of connected with Bob Parsons a little
Speaker 1: bit of time when he started p x G and
Speaker 1: why can't I make a legal equipment Like I just
Speaker 1: want the ball to go as far for everyone as
Speaker 1: I can. And he gets involved in equipment, Um, he'll
Speaker 1: advised mentor like and play with all the young sort
Speaker 1: of young up and coming to a players, it was
Speaker 1: probably yeah, he does it all. He just he's a
Speaker 1: really fun guy to hang around and that sort of
Speaker 1: enthusiasm is contagious. I love it. Well, certainly a Lavely podcast.
Speaker 1: All right, this was another need of fourth We'll keep
Speaker 1: we'll keep doing these. We have some other very fun
Speaker 1: interesting guests coming up. So um for now, I'm Alan Shipnuk.
Speaker 1: That was Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger and of course
Speaker 1: the one only Gary McCord. Thank you for listening, and
Speaker 1: uh that's it. That's the end. M m mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's a dangerous group here.