WEBVTT - Need A 4th?! Ep. 9 with Gary McCord 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:09.680 Golf. Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.200 anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.360 a one time winner on the PGA Tour. The point, Alan, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:21.840 is he didn't go Hollywood. You need a fourth before 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.480 we get to this extremely entertaining episode with Gary McCord, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.880 who's quite a golfing original. We're just gonna pay a 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.400 few bills. We want to thank our corporate sponsors Echo. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.760 I'm a longtime fan and advocate and proponent Um. They're 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.599 super comfy and stylist. But for Michael Bamberger, it's more 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.280 than a shoe. It's a lifestyle. It's it's almost a worldview. Michael. 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.279 That's well said. Alan. Now, Alan, we've known a show 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.879 that a long time. You know all my moves, You 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.360 even know all my trivia questions. I probably have posed 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.800 this one to you before, and this relates. Did you 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.880 mentioned Gary McCord? I did, but yeah, I was drowned out, 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.200 but I thought you did. But when when McCord came 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.640 on tour, the term that the term of the art 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.160 as it relates to a shoe was still very popular. Alan. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.600 It's the covering of the laces that used to be 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:14.640 popular and there's a reason why I'm going here. Do 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.559 you know that term? And I think I probably posed 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.920 this question to you before, like guilty guilty is correct? 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.240 Now now, Alan, you know as you as you indicate 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.600 it is. It's a, it's a. It's the same my attachment. 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.640 The Echo shoe is a statement on life. I just 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:34.360 did google Echo and guilty. They do make a shoe 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.360 with a guilty So hats off to Echo for keeping 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.440 the old traditional life. Only you could be this excited 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.000 about the guilty. But we do love Echo shoes. We 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.640 thank them for their support. Now let's get to Need 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.440 a Fourth with Gary McCord. Hello, this is Alan Schip 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.480 knuck back for another Need a Fourth podcasts, in which myself, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.600 co host Jeff Ogili Mick Obamager take turns surprising each 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:03.120 other with mystery guests. Um are the person that their 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.760 name might be on the zoom screen. Perhaps Michael and 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.000 Jeff have not noticed this, but I will say that 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.560 he's a winner on the Ben Hogan Tour, and he's 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.600 a winner on the Senior Tour, but not in the 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:14.840 tour you would play in between. Hopefully there there's a 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:20.000 vast middle of his career that's winless but has made 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.480 a great career for himself and TV um, this guy 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.040 have a mustache older than you are in yours. I'm 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.920 I'm afraid it probably does the Yes, the most famous 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.320 mustache and golf Darnet Bamberger has seen the zoom. He 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:44.360 knows who this is. Gary mccoord, Come on down, hello, boys, Gary, 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.200 what's going on? Thank you for doing this. You know 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.000 your name has come up in a few previous podcasts 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:55.160 where Brandel Shambilie mentioned you. I think Jeff mentioned that 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.120 you guys played a lot of golf together back in 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.160 the day. So why why don't you, Why don't you 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.320 take us to your long relationship with with co host 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.560 Jeff Ogilvie and and tell us give us a little 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.760 dirt on the man if you, if you would, Yeah, Jeff, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:10.880 Jeff showed up from down under to Scottsdale, Arizona, and 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.600 he showed up at Whisper Rock and one of the 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.400 young studs that were out there. So I got I 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.400 got to see him and know him many many many 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:25.560 years ago. And uh, we had we had a great 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.280 time out there. We were we were going at it. Now. 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.400 I was younger then much younger, and I could play 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.760 just a little bit, but I never could handle Jeff. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.120 But he was fun because all the young there's a 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:38.840 lot of young guy who got thirty five guys out 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:40.440 there from the tour, so a lot of young guys. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.720 So you get to you get to watch their development 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.640 and watch how they kind of go through their golfing 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.320 life and their social life too, because Jeff lived there 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.800 and we got to become pretty good friends, and we 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.760 had a lot of good, good fun out there, a 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.560 lot of good fun. It's a fun play. Gary told 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:01.120 me how to play. That was frightening. I would I 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.560 wouldn't get that out. I know it was very competitive 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.920 that you were competitive. I mean we uh it was. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.280 It all started going downhill when you start of wanting 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.400 the United shots. Well yeah, I mean it gets to 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.360 the point I'm going frontis on h shots, not you know, 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.839 a hundred years old and and you know you're playing 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.160 the way you were, um and uh get we just 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.400 played when we played two months ago, three months ago, 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.000 months ago, like your asshole, if he shot sixty six 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.200 or six seven, I shot eight five. So yeah, I 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.840 need some strokes and I need some a lot of 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:42.159 low I've actually always wondered if in a in a 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.799 practice round, if you were you know, an aging Marco 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.440 mirror and you're playing a practice round against peak Tiger Woods, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.799 do you ask for strokes or what is the pro code? 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.159 As long as they have a tour card, you can't 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.520 ask for strokes? F another pro like, how does that? Well? 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.159 Just I'll give you at the rock. We all have 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.680 our handicaps, Okay. Um. The bad thing is like Jeff 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.400 when he's playing on the tour, I think they they 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:10.799 allow like it's like one and a half points, um more. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:17.159 His scores count because he's in competition. Okay, Now mine 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.159 are not in competition, and I'm out there and my 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.640 my credo that is it's not what you shoot, it's 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.560 what you post. So if I'm gonna go play Jeff 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.960 Ogilvie and John Rams out there and all those guys, 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.520 I need a lot of strokes. Now it's not even 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.040 the contest. So back in the day, I need some 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.920 help because they're just they You find out how good 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:39.440 these guys are when you sitting next to him and 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.560 you're playing for cash where they don't want to lose, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.640 and they're gonna hit it eight yards by it, and 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.520 then you've got to negotiate and how to get how 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.280 to get it down from there. And as Jeff knows, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.640 the only club I had my bag ever was my mouth. 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.559 And I just if I can just get on guys 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.720 and keep going and keep going and just get him 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.120 to they're just piste off. And that's when you got 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.839 some kind of chance. But otherwise I have no chance. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.800 I'm not absolutely not, but it is but fun in 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.760 it and it and it develops. I mean, Jeff was 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.560 when he first came out, there was really a quiet, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:24.960 introverted guy. Um And we played a lot, and Jeff 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.599 started after you know, a year or two, and he 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.440 started coming back at me with stuff. So I I 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.760 a lot of these kids. It's fun to get them 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.119 going competitively and then see what they've got verbally, Jeff, 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.599 which is beat you and just not say anything. And 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.560 then Jeff along the way, at some point started getting 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.200 really good with the needle and um and and I 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.599 was very proud of that development, very proud, not that 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.120 I didn't but the fact that that he got a needle. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.599 He got a needle. Jeff, will you just give us 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.120 a quick analysis and accord and swing, because Uh. I 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.400 remember when he played and he my memories ahead. He 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.240 had a tall lang with long backswing, beautiful rhythm, and 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:11.040 he looked like a guy who's going to win on tour. Yeah, 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:15.040 he's comfortably the most self depreciating golfer I've ever met, 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.680 and I've met a few. Um, he was very good. 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.360 He had a good action. I wouldn't say it was 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.239 long when I played with him, but he was already 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:27.360 gray when I started playing with him. He had length 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.360 to the swing. Yeah, it was a very nice swing. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.440 He looked he hit it straight old. Um said that 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.280 he wasn't going to but did. Um. A short game 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.640 was cool, a little shut stands short game that he 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.400 learned from somewhere. He played like a pro who had 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.280 been playing for fifty years, who had picked up tips 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:52.440 from everybody. You know. Um, and really really good good putter, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.960 especially while talking. Um could make six footers for while 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.160 talking through it. I think he was trying to distract 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:02.520 you in case he missed it, but he might have 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:07.160 every time. So Um, he's a very I'm derighted. Golf 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:08.600 are really good. I don't know how he didn't win 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.280 on the big stage. Actually, how did you not win? 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.800 On the big stage. I was. I was, as you know, 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.160 if I had to go back and take a look 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.880 at it. And I played the tour from seventy four, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.920 told about started CBS and eight six, so right around 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.800 you I kind of quit some nineties and seven four 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:33.160 to nineties. That's that's a long time to be really bad. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:38.240 And and I and as Jeff knows, I I kind 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.600 of started off slogan. I tapered off kind of one 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.400 of those deals and I never could get it back. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.320 And mentally, you get you get out there and you 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:51.080 get depressed. You get you constantly sitting in a hotel 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.640 room thinking about how bad you are, and pretty soon 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.400 you've become bad. And that's kind of what I did. Uh. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.760 I had a little bit of knowledge of the golf swing, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.080 not much because in my era when we came up, 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.280 it was empirical. You would go out on the range, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.280 you hit balls, and if one went bad, you gotta 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.079 don't remember that when it went good, remember that swing. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.120 We never had cameras, we never had anything. So we 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.080 beat balls and figured out how we could do it. 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:21.319 And it's not a really good speed learning situation. Um. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.400 And so I had no clue what I was doing. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.360 I beat the hell out everybody in in college and 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.839 the mini tours, and then when I got out there 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.600 into that and everybody there was I was an NC 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.280 double A champion College division, which was a smaller division, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.480 and I went out there and everybody was n C 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:42.719 double A champion, the big schools, and they were. I 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.240 remember my first tour school I went to, I'm playing 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.679 the last round of Lanny Watkins and David Graham and 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.600 I had and I was shelter. I didn't play, started 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.360 playing golfs fifteen. I remember I went back home when 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.520 I told these guys, I said, I played with some 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.760 guys that are so far past me. It's unbelievable. I 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.880 don't know how I would survive out there this particular point. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.000 I didn't get my card that year. I got it 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:13.520 the next. So, yeah, you become out there. You jeff, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.440 what's the wandering. You have a tendency to wander all 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.760 over the place, and it we didn't have teachers, so 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.280 you had to do it yourself. And if you were 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.319 going in the right direction, you know long it took 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.640 you to reverse that direction and then come back the 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.120 other way or a way you thought was better. It 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:37.840 was a constant, arduous trek through clouds and fogs and 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.000 dark forest, and it was really hard to get if 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.120 you had a rudder. By then it hit was, yeah, 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:47.880 I don't you know, you could steer it, but we 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.160 didn't want to steer which way to go, so that 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.160 that was running right. Now, you go out there and 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.199 you know, you've got your teacher, you've got your biomechanist, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.800 you've got your nutritionist, um, you've got literally everybody around 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.600 you in this giant circle not letting your deviate from 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.160 the path that you sent forth. And our dad there 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.679 was no path, there was no nothing. So I want 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:17.080 to blame it on the fact that I wasn't I 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.400 was okay. I didn't have any concept of the golf 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:25.200 swing whatsoever. I didn't in basics, I didn't know where 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.400 the face was and how to apply the face to 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.720 the ball. When I got nervous. The more nervous I got, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.080 the worse it got and engulf. The more nervous you get, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:39.400 you hopefully you've got a good standard um, a good 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:45.760 standard model you can go for and it helps mine hurt. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.320 And I couldn't figure out why I got under the 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.959 gun and I got worse. And that's the whole key 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.200 in golf. You gotta get out there and you've got 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.200 to you've got to play on the weekend, make the cut. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:57.680 Then you've got to play good, to play with the 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.720 good players towards the end when the it gets raging 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.320 inside and you can figure out, then all right, if 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.000 I got it, what what happens? Gilder way to figure out? 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.360 Then you go back to the range and try to 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.800 try to try to figure out why it went wrong. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:15.280 And that was a it was hard, hard process at 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.240 that time. And then you know I wasn't good enough 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.599 to go out there and just with my mechanic's go 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.839 look at me, where's Jack, where's the lady, where's Arnold? 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.760 Let's go no one that way. So it's a long 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.280 convoluted way to say, I with shitty, and I didn't 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.880 know what I was doing. When did you start hanging 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:43.040 out with Mac? Five? Um? I was in Palm Springs 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.160 and Mac was there and I called him up and 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.280 I said, where are you going next? And excuse me, Jeff, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.960 this is eight six six And he said, I'm gonna 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.240 I'm gonna go to Augusta. I'm playing, And uh, I 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.760 was doing the TELEVI first time to the television. So 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.679 I met Mac out there. We played a practice round 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:08.240 effect Jody Mudd, me and Mac O'Grady played a practice round. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.680 This is good. And the first time I played augusta hold. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.959 You know, Mac wouldn't let you play golf. You had 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.160 to hit shots and do all this crap. And he 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.840 was working with Jod. So we get to the sixteenth 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.439 hole and we're gonna play the whole im. You know, 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.200 I think I'm playing for a score and playing for 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.960 ten dollar units or twenty or a hundred, whatever we're 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.320 playing for. And the pin was on the left, back 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.839 over there in the corner, right around the bunker, and 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.120 so I get hit. Mac goes, hoh holy, and he said, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.440 go to the right. I want I want to see 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.319 if you getting the ledge up there in the top right. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.240 It's a hard shot. That's where it's gonna be. That's 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.880 where it's gonna be on Saturday, seeing get it up there. 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.640 So I get up there in the seven iron, I 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.640 pulled hook it and I went right in the hole 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.200 over here on the left, and everybody's going nuts, just AUGUSTA. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.320 First time I played it, I make a hole in one. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.640 I wouldn't even aiming at the damn hole. I was 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.720 aiming another one up there, and people are going nuts, 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.199 and I'm trying to tell no, no no, no, no, no, no, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.960 no no no. I just Frank's looked at seven iron, 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.000 literally forty yards away from where I was aiming. But 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.160 I'll never forget that anyway. So MC and I are planning, 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.640 and Mac and I had grown up in in in 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.080 junior college. He was at UM he was at Santa 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.080 Monica Junior College. I was at Riverside City College and 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.640 I knew him then. He was nuts then too, um 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.920 more a cowboy had uh but you know, golf song 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.960 was okay, they're in jeff Okay, not anywhere near. And 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.320 I'll tell you the next story, not anywhere near what 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.160 it is now. And you know, he always had a 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.080 left handed club in his bag and then thirteen right 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.360 handed clops. And I played him in junior college and 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.240 he was not. So he came back and I and 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.120 I had played with him somewhere and I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.000 Wait a minute, that is not the swing. I remember, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.560 this looked really good. He had been to Asia plan 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.760 and he I think he quit over there. End up 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.120 playing left handed for a while over in Asia, and 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.960 then he started in the golf machine and then he 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.360 started figuring out how to do it. And so after 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:09.680 he figured out how to do it, that's when I 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.240 met him an augustin six again for the first time 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.400 in a while. I said, can I come down and 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.440 work with you? I live in uh I live in 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.680 Palm Springs at the time, and Mac did too. He said, yeah, 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.280 come out to the field. So there was a field 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:29.200 there that we had it, but golf course was at anyways, 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.960 big kind of soccer field. So I went out there 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:33.680 one day. You know, you got to hip balls, you 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.240 think you go hip balls for thirty minutes with Mac 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.720 And I was out there for twelve and a half hours, 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.640 and he showed me he started hitting balls left handed, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.480 right handed. I mean and Jeff as you know when 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.120 you when you look at him when he was playing, 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.480 it was perfect. It was freaking perfect. And he had 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.600 a model and he had starting to investigate this model 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.000 from the golf machine. And I'm watching this and I'm 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.040 going and he's shown me how Finally I got it. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.600 After about ten hours, I couldn't stand up, I couldn't 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.960 hold on the club. I was getting the idea of it. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:12.360 So at that point we became really good friends. And 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.160 from there to the last time I talked to him, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.480 I think it was so eight years. I was with 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.960 him teaching a bunch of the guys on the tour 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.720 Max model, working with him and understand it, and we 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.280 were going to try to make a business out of it. 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.440 So that's UH, I learned a lot. It was. I 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.840 went to the mountain, UH, and I learned a lot. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.200 We had doctors, we had by a mechanist. We had 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.880 guys flying in left and right going on this model, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:49.560 uh dr Zabnman shaky and uh. It was intense. And 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.040 at night Mac wouldn't let you go, so he'd call 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.600 you on the phone, and he'd call you on the phone. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:59.200 And Mac is deaf in the right here and totally 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.760 deaf in left here a hundred percent because his brothers 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.240 beat the crap out of him when he was growing up, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.720 and so he lost some hearing. So in other words, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.040 Mac didn't listen. Mac talked and literally he got on 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.119 the phone. We've got on the phone for three or 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.119 four hours after being with him all day, eight hours, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.560 and it was just it was. It was intense, to 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.480 say the least of an education. I'm interested that you 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.920 had a friendship with someone where you only had to listen. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.280 How about that? How about that I could do was 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.040 just to ask questions and then listen. And yeah, it 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.040 was hard. That that was. That was hard. It really was. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.480 That's a that's a very very good read on that, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:48.760 but it's it was hard. But in the long run, um, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.439 you know, to watch to what he did with a 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.680 lot of these guys in all the way different Jody 0:17:53.800 --> 0:18:03.359 mud Uh, Chip Beck Um um stars at the end, Um, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.600 and to watch them and the model and so forth 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:10.160 in the end and understand the biomechanics of it and 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.639 their neurology and all that stuff. It was really really fun, 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.480 a lot of fun. Gary. I'm interested that you you 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.439 you say your struggle on the PGA Tour because of 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.879 you know, nervousness, but you're obviously an extrovert and a 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.399 showman and you seem to love a crowd. Is that 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.000 something that developed later in life where you just couldn't 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.280 transfer your natural personality into your golf game. Well, I 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.359 think that was probably alan Probably a lot of the 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.040 problem was the fact that I was like that, um, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.359 very gregarious, you know, like kept fun. Uh, I've got 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.800 I've got a d D really bad, which a lot 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:52.359 of people do. So my focus was, oh, maybe a 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.679 femto second. That's it. That's a That's as much as 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.159 I could focus. And then it was squirrel and I'll 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.080 be bouncing a round and there, and that was that 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.399 was a problem. I couldn't really concentrate and put my full, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.600 my full focus on what I was doing. But yeah, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.119 I remember coming up to the to the who has 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:18.720 brought this up the other day? Oh it was um 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.320 got got into her hold on getting a second anywhere 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.119 playing Silverado eighteenth. It's a part five, bunch of people 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.200 around and this is stuff I would do and and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.800 uh so I told my caddie, I said, this is 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.720 long before a long before we had we had any 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.919 any of any of these, uh cell phones. And I 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.240 had this ringer in my bag and I got over 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.800 this button. I'm looking at it like I can't figure 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.480 out which way it breaks, and then the phone goes 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.479 off my golf bag. Okay, Daling, Dane Ling, Daling. So 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.399 I go over and I walk over there right in 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.840 the middle of a round, and uh, I figured out 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.840 I had about a twenty five UH cord on the 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.080 end of a phone, okay, and I just stretched it 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.800 and I got behind a I got behind the ball. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.040 I said, so you're telling me it goes to the left, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.760 and I'm looking up. Okay, so you're telling me it 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.800 goes to the left. They didn't go to the left, 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.719 your kids. I had this long talk with God about 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.480 which way the ball is going, and then we finally, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.520 you know, we get in there and I don't know 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.639 if I made it or missed it. But that's the 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.560 kind of stuff, you know. I had. I had toy 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.879 chain sauce in my golf bag, had folding and they 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.160 and you started it up when like that it was plastic, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.720 but it was It was a toothedged uh cutter on 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:40.439 the thing and it would fold back up in so 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.520 when I pushed it against a tree, it looked like 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.879 it was cutting it. So I'd be over the trees 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.040 all the time, you know the gallery that I knew 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.440 everybody because I was over the trees and I'm looking 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.040 I go to the guy who goes out, you know, 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:52.480 what what do you think? You know? And asked he 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.760 what do you think? Well, you can't do it in trees. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.320 Take care of that. I take that. I'd start cutting. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.359 I got guys going to push the tree over and 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.800 helped me push the tree because I was cutting the tree. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.520 So you can see I was focusing a little too 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.240 much on the devian part instead of the part that 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:13.720 I wanted to I should have been thinking about. I 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.280 just want to know that Gary was witty long before 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.240 he got on t V. When I was cattying briefly, 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:20.920 I heard him say of there was an old time 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:27.040 caddy named Lelnch, and Gary said apropos of nothing. Leland 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.160 isn't gonna die. He's just gonna crystallize. One day, while 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.879 tending the pain, Leland was, let's see, boy, this has 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.360 gone back a long time. He was known as Fingers, 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:43.000 and he the shoulder massages. He would give more unbelievable 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.400 and just go down. If he was working for al 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.359 Geiberger for a long time and you go, Fingers, Fingers, 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.360 I need some work here, and he'd come already like that. Man, 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.280 you felt great, But you're right. I think the guy 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.600 just crystallized. He just literally turned into the courts and 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.320