1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: in the media business. Today, I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: As we head into the home stretch before the November election. 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: This is crunch time for the plethora of media companies 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: who cover politics, count among them a twenty two year 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: old operation based here in Los Angeles known as the 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: Young Turks. To talk about the business of TYT, I 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: am joined today by its founder, CEO and lead anchor, 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: Jenk Yuger. We'll get into it with him right after 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: the break. I am joined in studio today by Jenk Huger, who, 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: if you don't know the name from his work at TYT, 13 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: you might recall he had a brief run for the 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: Democratic presidential nomination that ended earlier this year. Certainly ask 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: him about that and the election, but today's focus is 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: on his work in the news space. Thanks for coming in, Jenk. 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: Thank you, Andrew, appreciate it. 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: So, just for the uninitiated, before you even explain what 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: TYT is all about, I actually want to talk about 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: the scale of your business first. In this day and age, 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: anyone can put a logo on a web page and 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: say they're a news operation. That's obviously not you guys. 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: So if you will paint a picture of the growth 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: you guys have achieved all this time. 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we are at about twenty seven million subscribers 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: across all the platforms now, about eighteen million on YouTube, 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: six million on the flagship show, The Young Turks. But 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: it's now a network, so we have fast channels that 29 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: are on almost all the fast channel platforms. We do 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: everything from one minute TikTok videos to twenty four hour channels, 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: about at least a dozen platforms so far. So you 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: type iny or The Young Turks anywhere and you'll get 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: us and tyts for the network. Young Turks is for 34 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 2: the flagship show. And we've been around since the beginning 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: of YouTube. We're actually the first YouTube partner ever, Yeah, 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: which makes me the original YouTuber. So when I say 37 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 2: that we have twenty nine billion lifetime views, that's both impressive, 38 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: but at the same time, it's been a while, okay, 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: so I'm fair about it. In fact, we're the longest 40 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: running show in Internet history, so that's pretty neat, and 41 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: I feel good about those, you know, hallmark achievements and 42 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: the size that we've gotten to. 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: And I would imagine in this election season, the audience increases. 44 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: People are paying attention like never before. You're seeing that. 45 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, election season views always go up, and 46 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: you know, we've got hundreds of millions of views every month, 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: and that feels great. But I'll tell you there is 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: a wrinkle to that, and that makes the story interesting. 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 2: We are doing something pretty different now than than almost 50 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: anyone online, and it's so new school that it's almost 51 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: old school, and it is costing us audience. Okay, so 52 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: that's where it gets interesting. Tell us about it. Yeah. So, 53 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: but we believe we're going to get a larger audience 54 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: in that. And so we're telling the truth. And you 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: might think, come on, jank, everybody tries to tell the truth, 56 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: and you don't have a monopoly on it, et cetera. 57 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: I understand all that, but do they So let me 58 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: challenge that way of thinking. If you go on MSNBC 59 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: or Morning Joe or The View and you say, for example, 60 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: the photo op that that Trump did at McDonald's was 61 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: actually a brilliant piece of marketing, they'll say, outrageous, you terrible, 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: how dare you? He's the worst. Right, you have to 63 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: be honest with your audience and you have to say 64 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: what he's doing right and what he's doing wrong, what 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris is doing right, what Kamala Harris is doing wrong. 66 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: But when you do that, the partisans get very very angry. 67 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: You can alienate them. 68 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: They won't come back because you said something they don't 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: like exactly. 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: So what's happening online now, unfortunately, is everyone is giving 71 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: people what they want. And you say, wait, why is 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: that unfortunate because what they want to hear is not 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 2: necessarily what's true. So it's created a news industry that 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: is filled to the rim with people. Whether it's mainstream 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: media or social media and new digital media, they're all 76 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: giving the audience what they want. Oh, Trump is the best, 77 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: Trump is the worst, Kamma is the best, Kamala is 78 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: the worst, and no one's actually getting the truth. And 79 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: we're trying to give them the truth. And then that 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: alienates people and it's a dangerous strategy we have of 81 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:47,559 Speaker 2: actually doing the news. 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: Well, but are you seeing signs of alienation? Do you 83 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: see people reacting because you're not queuing to a party 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: line partisan wise? 85 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: Oh? Definitely. And so it goes from ideology to partisanship. 86 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: So on the ideology front, when crime rose, we accurately 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: reported the crime rose. And that angered a lot of 88 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: leftists in our audience, and they said, how dare you 89 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: make the numbers basically fit your ideology instead of your 90 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: ideology fitting the facts. And so now they wouldn't use 91 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 2: it in those terms. They'd say, you're helping right wing 92 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: framing by pointing out the facts. Well, I don't think 93 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: you're helping your side by denying them, right, And so 94 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: they got very mad at that. And then we said, look, 95 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: I know the right wing is drumming up hatred against 96 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 2: the trans community, and we fight against that, and we've 97 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: been fighting against that when no one else was on 98 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: our side. We were fighting for trans rights, gay rights, etc. 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: And in fact, we held Biden and Obama accountable when 100 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 2: they weren't for legalizing gay marriage. And back then people 101 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: forget we were considered outrageous radicals for daring to criticize 102 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: Obama and saying he's got the wrong position on gay marriage. 103 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You all want gay marriage, 104 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: but don't criticize the sainted, benighted Barack Obama. See even 105 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: as I say that, I guarantee you there's pete Democrats 106 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: in your audience who are a little rankled by that framing, Like, whoa, 107 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: what are you saying? Are you saying I'm biased? Are 108 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: you saying that Obama's not benighted? And that sounds like 109 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: a right winger? No, I just told you I hate Trump. 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: I'm debating eight pro Trump guys at once, right, and 111 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 2: I've done that all over media. But you lose credibility 112 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: if you're not honest, right, And now, don't get me wrong, 113 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: I'm not letting the right wing off the hook. Their 114 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: right wing media is nuts and they say things that 115 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: aren't anywhere near true. And Domanian has got what eight 116 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty five million dollars to prove it right? Right, 117 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: So Fox is yes. So we're not saying Trump is great, 118 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: and the lunacy that the right wing media has, we're 119 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 2: knocking down every one of those mythologies, like Jesus Now 120 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: they're at eating cats and dogs like that's just right. 121 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: They hate the establishment. I don't like the establishment. We 122 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: could talk about that. I think that's an interesting topic, right, 123 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: But just because you don't like the establishment doesn't mean 124 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: you should believe lunatic conspiracy theories. 125 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: Right, So it sounds like you're giving it to people 126 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: on the right and the left. But I think we 127 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: should make clear for those not familiar with TYT and 128 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. You guys are on the left, 129 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: you guys are progressive. What is it like in this 130 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: election cycle speaking to a progressive audience? 131 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: Honestly's a tough business, but you have to do it right. 132 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: You have to give the analysis and then we give 133 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: our perspective, and our perspective is that of progressive populace. 134 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: So what does that mean? I think there are two 135 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: political spectrums. One that is hidden and that especially to 136 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: the establishment, that they're not even aware exists. The one 137 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: that we're all familiar with is left right. And on that, 138 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: let's just stick with the main show because all of 139 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: our hosts have different points of view, and there are 140 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: a lot to have different points of view. And TYT 141 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: as a network has a mission statement which is boldly 142 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: pursued the truth, challenge the establishment, and drive positive change. Okay, 143 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: so as long as you're fitting that mission statement, you're 144 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: allowed to have any opinion you like. You're an out 145 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: to have any politics you want right. So for the 146 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: main show, it's me and my co hosts Ana Kasparian, 147 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: and our politics is center left. It's not extreme left. 148 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: We take it on the extreme left all the time. 149 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: It's definitely not right wing. And it's not what mainstream 150 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: media would call moderate. But I think what mainstream media 151 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: calls moderate is not actually moderate. I think it's a 152 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: radical corporate agenda which brings us to the other part 153 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: of the political spectrum, the hidden part, and that's establishment 154 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: versus populist. And there we're very populist. We're on the 155 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: one end of the spectrum on that one. 156 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: And when it comes to establishment, I'm hearing perhaps you're 157 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: not just talking about government, you're talking about the media 158 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: that follows the government as well. 159 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely yes. So for people who have watched television 160 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: and makestream media their whole life, or read the New 161 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: York Times, when I talk about the establishment, they say, 162 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: what water? Okay, you know the old story about the fish. 163 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: You ask him how's the water, and he says, what water? Right. 164 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: But in terms of your own company, which is for profit, 165 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: you take advertising, how do you not as you grow 166 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: fall into the same trap where you are beholden to 167 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: corporate America. And I also it's hard for me to believe, 168 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: given the scale that you've achieved, that political parties aren't 169 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: whispering in your ear what their agenda is as well. 170 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: So all this goes by way of saying, how do 171 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: you really keep yourself apart from everyone else? And say, no, 172 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: we're the antidote to the media problem. 173 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this great question has interesting technical answers as 174 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: well as ideological answers. So one is that we get 175 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: a decent amount of our revenue from our members, and 176 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: so that way we say you're our bosses instead of 177 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: giant corporate advertisers or politicians, et cetera, and we serve you. 178 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: And so when you tie your financial incentive to your audience, 179 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: you're better off than if you tie your financial incentives 180 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: to other factors that can then lead you in a 181 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: direction that isn't true. 182 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: But just interrupt for a second. How big a chunk 183 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: of the revenues that you get come from subscribers as 184 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: opposed to advertise. 185 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: About a third? Okay, so that's a significant chunk. So 186 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: if you lose a third of your revenue, you're in 187 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: a lot of trouble. Ye, right, but if you gain 188 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: more subscribers tyt dot com slash join. If you gain 189 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: more subscribers, then that's the audience saying at a boy, okay, 190 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: this is the news that makes sense. And by the way, 191 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: if it doesn't make sense to you, that you don't 192 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: join it. 193 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 3: Right. 194 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: So now, but we do get advertisers, and so what 195 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: do we do. Number one, we do mainly programmatic, so 196 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: we are not directly tied to the advertisers. It goes 197 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: through a third party, so they don't care what we're saying, 198 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: and we don't care what their corporate position is, and 199 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: so it gives a good distance, so you're not overly 200 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: influenced by that. The other thing that happens, there's a 201 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: giant hidden advertising base again that we don't see much 202 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 2: talk of in the mainstream media, which is the politicians themselves. 203 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: So in the last cycle, they spent seventeen billion dollars, 204 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: almost all of which went to ads in mainstream media. 205 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: And so that's one of the reasons why they don't 206 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: speak out too harshly against politicians because politicians are some 207 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: of their top advertisers, they're top clients. We don't do that, 208 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: so you will see political ads on TYT, but they 209 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: went through a third party, and so there's no influence 210 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 2: on us at all. In fact, a lot of times 211 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: you'll see Republicans running ads on it. We don't endorse that, 212 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: and we don't care. You can say whatever you want 213 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: to our audience. Our audience is open minded, open hearted, 214 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 2: and we know how to tell reality from fiction. And 215 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: so if you want to run the ads, that makes sense. 216 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: Tons of undecided voters there, but we're not soliciting that. Now. 217 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: Sometimes we do direct ads and I'm happy to do it, 218 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 2: but generally speaking, it's with more progressive outlets or outlets 219 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: that we agree with. So good example is Aspiration, longtime 220 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 2: sponsor of ours. They're a financial institution that is more progressive, 221 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: so they don't put your money in fossil fuel companies, 222 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: whereas the major banks do. So we love Aspiration. They 223 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: created a green marketplace where there's eighty two other good 224 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: guy companies and so if you're a good guy company 225 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: trying to do good in the world, oh, we love it. 226 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: And that's the alignment we want. Because we're trying to 227 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: set up win wins. 228 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: I say, I say, well, we will have more with 229 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: jenk Uger after the break, be right back and we 230 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: are back with Jenk Huger, CEO, founder lead anchor of 231 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: the Young Turks and the Tyt Empire. Jenk, you'd referred 232 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: earlier to your seminal role in, you know, the formation 233 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: of pro content on YouTube. YouTube, is that still sort 234 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: of the main platform because you are doing other things, 235 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: You're on podcasts, you're on the other social media, But 236 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: is that still the main attraction. 237 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where two thirds of our subscribers are. That's 238 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: where the line's share of the audience is for the 239 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: whole internet. Really, if we're you know, looking at it holistically, 240 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 2: YouTube is the giant, and so we go to where 241 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: the audience is. It's always been on YouTube, and it's 242 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 2: still on YouTube today, but we are on all the 243 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: other platforms, and sometimes different platforms, depending on how they 244 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: set their algorithms, will spike. So for a while we 245 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: actually had more viewers on Facebook than we did on YouTube. 246 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: But then Facebook decided to deprioritize news because the Republicans 247 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: yelled at him too much. So, actually, to be fair 248 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: to Facebook, both sides yelled at them too much, and 249 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: they're like, well, we don't want the headache of dealing 250 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 2: with these politicians who demand that we cheat on their side, right, 251 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: So I get why they did it, but snap's a 252 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: big outlet for us. The fast channels are a huge 253 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: outlet for us. So our strategies be everywhere. And that 254 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: is juxtaposed, for example, to the Joe Rogan strategy, which 255 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: is just be in one place so he aggregates and 256 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: to be not only to be fair, but to give 257 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: him credit. In terms of business strategy, when you aggregate 258 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: all your viewers in one place, it seems bigger than 259 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: it is, so people look at it and go, who 260 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: I see a million people downloaded that stream? Right, Oh 261 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: my god, that seems gigantic. 262 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: But that's the only place you can get it. It's 263 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: sort of like an artificial scarcity. 264 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: I guess yeah, or you bring them there. And it's 265 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: a perfectly fine strategy, and in fact it works better 266 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: because it affects advertisers more. It affects media more once 267 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: they see with their own eyes, oh that's a million people. Okay, 268 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 2: you're a big show. We get three to five hundred 269 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: million viewers a month, but they're dispersed through hundreds of videos. 270 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: So for the media, that's a little bit harder to grasp. 271 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: They're like, where where, And I'm like, well, here's the numbers, 272 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: so you can see it. We can invite you to 273 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: the behind the scenes and show you the actual numbers. 274 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: And what's funny, Andrews. Sometimes I'll see online hosts do this. 275 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: They're like, oh, you know Young Turns Saint, claiming they're 276 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: the largest online news show. Let's look this up, and 277 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: then the guy will go, holy crap when he sees 278 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: the numbers. It's literally happened on air, and so they 279 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: don't realize that. Also, tyit has all these different channels 280 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: on YouTube and other places and all these different shows. 281 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: So Rebel Headquarters is a channel we have on YouTube 282 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: that's actually larger than the Young Turks. 283 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: Oh didn't know that. 284 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, See, almost nobody knows that the Rebel Headquarters is 285 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: twenty progressive hosts who are making content day in and 286 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: day out, and so we're winning the Internet in ways 287 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: that people can't even see. 288 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of what is sort of 289 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: the next level of growth, what you want to achieve 290 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: for the brand, you know, post election growth plans of 291 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: any kind. 292 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So when we challenged our own side, as I 293 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that takes a little bit of courage because 294 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: you do lose some audience. So we lost some subscribers 295 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: and we and in this election cycle, as we constantly 296 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: call out both Trump and Kamala Harris, the partisans often 297 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: hear only the criticism of their side, right, so they 298 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: bake in that you're not supposed to like Trump. But 299 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: if you ever criticize Biden or Kamala Harris, as I 300 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: certainly did when I ran against Joe Biden, right, Yeah, 301 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: then people get very mad. So then we lose some 302 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: establishment Democrats from our audience, and that happened, right. But 303 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: my goal for the long term is this is the 304 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: online news show. This is where everybody can come and 305 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter which side you're on, and we're going 306 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: to be tough to both of your sides, and you're 307 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: going to need to brace for impact, and we're going 308 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: to be honest with you even when it's painful. Okay, 309 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 2: but what you're going to get is the one place 310 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: where we're actually telling the truth. 311 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: But when you say that you've got this goal for 312 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: the long term, and in the same breath you're talking 313 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: about having thrown your hat into the presidential arena. Who's 314 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: to say in twenty twenty eight you're not there again 315 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: running and maybe actually sticking it out for the long term. 316 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: What happens to your media business if you've sort of pivoted. 317 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a great question as to why I 318 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 2: ran and how does that interact with the business right. 319 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: So I ran out of desperation, and I said that 320 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: clearly when I announced in the first interview, I said, 321 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: this is an act of desperation because I try to 322 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: get other people to run against Joe Biden for about 323 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: a year. So I talked to about a dozen progressives 324 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: and said he's incredibly weak. He's going to lose to 325 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Please take him on, not just for the 326 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: progressive base, and so progressives can win. And by the 327 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: middle of the way through that, I dropped the progressive 328 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 2: part because I'm like, look, he's going to lose to Trump. 329 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: There's no question about it. The professionals understand that. That's why, 330 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 2: not just me, but David Axelrod and James Carvill and 331 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: Nate Silver and Ezra Kleine. We were all out there saying, 332 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: for God's sake, look at the numbers. He has no 333 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: chance of winning. Please get him out of the race. 334 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: So that's why I ran because I deeply care about 335 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: the news. I deeply care about the results. So and 336 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: I don't mind being activists. I started Justice Democrats. That 337 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: is the group that got aoc Rashieta to Lee bilhan 338 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: Omar and Aana Presley elected, and then Corey Bush and 339 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: Jamal Bowman, et cetera, etcetera. There's now eleven Justice Democrats 340 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: in Congress. Actually, with the loss of Bowman and Bush, 341 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 2: it will be down to nine. So my point is, 342 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: I'm not dispassionate about the news. I'm passionate about the news. 343 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: I don't understand the old model of the wolf blitzers 344 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: who read the prompter and go, well, all these children died, 345 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 2: but I don't care. We're moving on. No, all these 346 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: children died. I care a lot. Sixty eight thousand people 347 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: die every year in America because they don't have health insurance. 348 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: I care a lot about those sixty eight thousand. I 349 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 2: think we should change it. And if you want to 350 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: get into how you change it, well then you have 351 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 2: to be honest and say our politicians are all taking 352 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: legalized bribes called campaign contributions. They take them from the 353 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 2: drug industry, the health insurance industry, the oil companies, the banks, 354 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 2: and they do exactly as their donors tell them. So 355 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: that's why we do predictions on the show, and we're 356 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: right almost every time. It's not because we're geniuses, it's 357 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 2: because the answer is super simple. Follow the money. That's 358 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: what journalism was supposed to do, and we lost track 359 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 2: of that. If you follow the money, you see that 360 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: the politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, vote with the donors 361 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 2: almost every single time. 362 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: If you take that tack, and I don't want to 363 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 1: be so cynical as to call it attack, but you know, 364 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: are politicians themselves going to come on your air as 365 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: you guests to talk or are they going to be 366 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: too scared? Is the position that you're taking. I guess 367 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying, come at a great cost if you can't 368 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: do the things that might help even take your audience 369 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: even bigger. 370 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does come with a cost, and the cost 371 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: is it might surprise you. It's not access to the 372 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: politicians themselves. That yes, that happens. So there's brave folks 373 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 2: who come on and we give very tough interviews. So 374 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: we're traditional in that sense. I got Bernie to change 375 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: his position on counting delegates in the middle of twenty 376 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: sixteen in the when it was the most heated in 377 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: the middle of an interview. Okay, and because he wasn't 378 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: right about that, And even though I supported Bernie in 379 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: every other way, I challenge them on the that he 380 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: was wrong on and he conceded it. Okay. We had 381 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: bare knuckle brawls almost with Toulcy Gabbert, John Delaney, Tim Ryan, Rocanna, 382 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: but the brave ones, the honest ones like ro Coanna 383 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: and Tim Ryan, and I agree more with Road than 384 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: I do with Tim, but I give Tim a ton 385 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: of credit. They both keep coming back on and saying, 386 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: this is my position, I'm willing to defend it, and 387 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: our audience deeply respects them for that. Okay. But when 388 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: we lose, do we lose access to politicians because we 389 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: give super tough interviews. Definitely right, Kamala Harris wouldn't be 390 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 2: caught anywhere near the young turns, but neither were Donald Trump. 391 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way on earth they'll come on. 392 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 2: And I tell them, if I was you, I wouldn't 393 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: come on because you're not going to do well. We're 394 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 2: going to challenge you on the truth and you're you're 395 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 2: gonna flounder. Okay, So it doesn't get any more honest 396 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: than that. So how does it hurt us? It doesn't 397 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: hurt us with the audience. The audience is not interested 398 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: in boring interviews with politicians that just give their talking 399 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: points that are unchallenged. If you do that kind of interview, 400 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: it'll get like two thousand views, it'll die. It's not 401 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: interesting at all. Everyone else is doing it. 402 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: So, yeah, you mentioned earlier you had the foresight to 403 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: see that Joe Biden's candidacy would be problematic. I'm curious 404 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: putting aside your assessment of her as a candidate as 405 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: a policy maker. I guess I'm asking for an assessment 406 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: more of the campaign because Kamala entered the race with 407 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: a real head esteem, a lot of momentum, and it 408 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: seems to have receded. I'm curious to get your take. 409 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: So this is why we talk about predictions. So you 410 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: know that we're not Monday morning quarterbacking. We're doing constructive critique. Right. 411 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: So I want to Buyden out of the race because 412 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 2: I was positive he's gonna lose a Trump, and I 413 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: think Trump is a unique danger, and by the end, 414 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: I'm like, for God's sake, Gavin Newsom, Josh Shapiro, all 415 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: these governors please get in the race. So they wouldn't 416 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: do it. So I had to do it in an 417 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: active desperation to try to push him out. And we did. We. 418 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: You know, obviously Pelosi Obama were the largest parts of that. 419 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: But I'm proud that I contributed to a more sane 420 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: Democratic Party. Okay. So now when we go to the 421 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: next level of that in Kamala Harris, we said, okay, 422 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: we were right about Joe Biden. Good check now Kamala Harris. 423 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: In the beginning, we immediately said, oh my gosh, she's 424 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: doing wonderful things. We're shocked that she picked Tim Walls, 425 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: who's a populous progressive that is very similar to the 426 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: way that we think about the world, but also very popular. 427 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: And people say, oh, yeah, he agrees with you. So 428 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 2: you're saying he's popular. No, look at the polling among 429 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: the four candidates in the race president and vice presidential level, 430 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: Tim Walls is by far the most popular. Okay, best 431 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: because people like populist progressive, they like paid family leave, 432 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: they like higher minimum wage, they liked that he took 433 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: care of the kids and gave them free lunch for 434 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: the kids who needed it, etc. So we say, great job, 435 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. Then she does a progressive populist economic agenda 436 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 2: where she says, we're going to tackle price couging, we're 437 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 2: going to tackle the housing prices. We go terrific. We 438 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: think her numbers are going to go up, and they do, 439 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: and we were right about that, and we gain more 440 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: trust with the audience. See, they're not against the Democratic Party. 441 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 2: When the Democratic Party is doing wrong, they call out 442 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 2: that they're doing wrong. When they're doing right, they call 443 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 2: out that they're doing right. So then about a week 444 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: what is today, October twenty first, two weeks ago on 445 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: October fifth, I said, uh, oh, she's going to start 446 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: heading down. And so now at that point she hadn't 447 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: started heading down at all, Okay, And I said, here's 448 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 2: why she's going to head down. She's got every sergeon 449 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: on cable news saying how much she loves corporate CEOs 450 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: and she's going to be more business friendly than Joe Biden. 451 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: Stop stop, that's a terrible idea. And then she started saying, oh, 452 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 2: I love Dick Cheney. I loved Liz Cheney, and she's 453 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: now campaigning in Pennsylvania. That's great. She's campaigning with Liz Cheney. 454 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: Not great. Not great. So we said she's going to 455 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: start heading down because people hate the Cheneys. He left 456 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: office with a thirteen percent approval rating. You're not going 457 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: to get the Republicans you think you're going to get 458 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: with by wrapping yourself around Dick Cheney. You're going to 459 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 2: lose populist undecided voters who hate Dick Cheney, whether they 460 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 2: were formerly Republican or formerly Democrat. Those independent undecided voters, 461 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: the one thing they're united on is anti war and 462 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: hating the Cheneys. So don't go in that direction. Saying 463 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 2: you love big business is the worst electoral strategy you 464 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: can imagine. It isn't about left and right, it's about 465 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 2: populis versus establishment. 466 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: Well, but as a matter of media strategy, let me 467 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: ask you have this. You're saying there's this sense of 468 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: establishment versus populism. I understand you're passionate about that, but 469 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: how do you know that there truly is this mass 470 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: audience that feels the same way. 471 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, first of all, a lot of times 472 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: Fox News will say Hey, we are the country because 473 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: we're the largest cable outlet. That's a little misleading because 474 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, there's still only one 475 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: to three million people watching in a country of three 476 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty million people. But do they have they 477 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: proven that they at least resonate with some portion of 478 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: the American people. 479 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 3: Yes. 480 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: Right. In our case, we're the largest online news show. 481 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 2: We didn't get there by accident. And when we started 482 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: twenty two years ago, we had absolutely no money, no connections, 483 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 2: no nothing. We started in my living room. My name 484 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: was Jank Yuger. No one knew me, no one wanted 485 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: to know me. Okay, so we started out with zero 486 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: viewers and zero dollars and we built up this empire 487 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: that now has twenty nine billion views and twenty seven 488 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: million subscribers. We did that because it resonated. It doesn't 489 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: mean that we're right about everything. It just means we 490 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: did find a track that a lot of people went, Yes, 491 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: that that's what I was looking for. That's the answer. 492 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: It's not the right spectrum, it's the populous establishment spectrum. 493 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: Last question, but a big one, which is give me 494 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: your sense of the future of news media and Tyt's 495 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: place in it. Obviously, we have the established powers of 496 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: CNN and Fox News and the New York Times and such. 497 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: Do you see this ecosystem undergoing changes starting in this 498 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: next election cycle? 499 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 2: So I'll give you a little bit of business intelligence 500 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: that and I can say this, even though it might 501 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: give away a competitive advantage we have because I know 502 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: the rest of the industry isn't going to believe it anyway, 503 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: And whenever I say things, they don't. That's been my 504 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: experience that they don't believe it. When we started the company, 505 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: I said online video is going to be TV. They said, 506 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: you're the craziest person we've ever met. There's no chance 507 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 2: that's going to happen, right, And here we are, of 508 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: course right, And I can give you many other examples. 509 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: We're trying to be in the reality based world as 510 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 2: hard as we possibly can. So with that preface, let 511 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: me say what's going to happen next is DAI Dynamic 512 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: ad insertion has finally come to YouTube. And so what 513 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 2: a lot of people don't understand about digital media is 514 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: that it's still a very nascent industry. So a lot 515 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: of the tracks, the pipes, the infrastructure is still being 516 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: laid down, and so people sometimes will say to let's 517 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: even take people that people perceive as our competitors. They're 518 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: not really our competitors, but Vice, Vox, BuzzFeed those type 519 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: of people, right, and they'll say, why haven't you made 520 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 2: billions already? What's wrong with you? Well, how can you 521 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: get all of the money if the tracks aren't built, 522 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: or if the pipes aren't built. There's no pipes for 523 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: the ads to flow through. Right, So it got built 524 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: on the vod end and that's what's made us profitable 525 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: and that's what made us survivors of this industry. But 526 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: on the dynamic ad insertion, which basically just creates live 527 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: television with ads inserted in there. You take that as 528 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: a consumer as a given, but we know in the 529 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: digital media space it's not a given. It didn't exist 530 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: on YouTube until very recently, it didn't exist anywhere until 531 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. And so now that the 532 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: ads are finally being put into live breaks, what will 533 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: happen next to Andrew is a huge number of twenty 534 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: four hour hour channels will start to break out on 535 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: YouTube because they will realize, oh, right, now there's ads 536 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: throughout the day. When I do more live content, So 537 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, live content, especially twenty four hours, 538 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: will start to take over the landscape. So we're at 539 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 2: the very front of that line and we're seeing that 540 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: trend just as we've seen all of the other trends 541 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: in this industry that's allowed us to survive for this 542 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: long and to thrive. And so what I believe will 543 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: happen is we will win that battle. And when we do, 544 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: there's a second thing that's happening that is going to 545 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: to us passing CNN, MSNBC and all of them. So 546 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 2: if you look at it today, you go, Okay, jenk 547 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: I get it. You're winning on YouTube, you're winning on Facebook, 548 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: you're winning on some of these platforms. But saying that 549 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: you're going to beat CNN, that sounds crazy. They're so 550 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: much larger than you right when you're take in their 551 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: TV audience. But remember they grew grew up in an 552 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: ecosystem that had infinite money. They had one hundred million 553 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 2: subscribers and they were getting paid you know, different ranges, 554 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: but a dollar to four dollars on cable news that 555 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: is a world of money. And then you add to 556 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 2: add money on top. But now you're in a world 557 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 2: where you're at seventy million, sixty million subscribers and dropping. 558 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: So you just lost forty percent of your subscription revenue. 559 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: Let alone the fact that now the average age watching 560 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 2: cable news is about sixty eight on MSNBC, CNN and 561 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: Fox News Fox News around seventy. So now you're losing 562 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: your twenty five to fifty four demographics. So you're losing 563 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: advertisers at a great rate. But your costs are still 564 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: super high. So when you have an industry with sky 565 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: high cost that got used to those costs, right, as 566 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: Bain would say in Batman, victory has defeated you. Right. 567 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: So they're fat and soft, and they have unbelievable costs 568 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: and no longer have the revenue to keep up with 569 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 2: those costs. That's why you're seeing them cut anchor after 570 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: anchor after anchor. ESPN started it, and now it's going 571 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 2: to all of cable and so those forty twenty million 572 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: dollars a year outrageous salaries are gone, yep. And so 573 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: as they tip over and we rise up, we're going 574 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: to be the number one news network in the whole country, 575 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: and I hope the whole world. 576 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: Well, that sounds like a great prediction to end on. 577 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: Jenk thank you for coming in. Good luck with covering 578 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,719 Speaker 1: the rest of this election season. 579 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Andrew really appreciate it. 580 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 581 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 3: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear 582 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: from listeners. 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