Speaker 1: The first time I ever saw a working dog, I
Speaker 1: was four or five years old, and there was a
Speaker 1: dog helping a visually impaired lady crossposta leon in downtown
Speaker 1: atlant As always, my mother took great care and concern,
Speaker 1: explaining everything that dog was doing, listening for cars, watching
Speaker 1: for cars and other people, making sure when the light
Speaker 1: changed they had time to cross the street. I was amazed.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a dog, but he couldn't do
Speaker 1: any of that. And she explained that this dog was
Speaker 1: at work, not just a family pet, but literally he
Speaker 1: had a job. And I told her that I didn't
Speaker 1: know dogs could have jobs, and she said to me,
Speaker 1: you've seen other dogs working on farms, heard animals, you've
Speaker 1: seen dogs in movies. That's a job, like Lassie had
Speaker 1: a job. I had never thought about it that way.
Speaker 1: She said that our local jewelry store had that watchdog.
Speaker 1: And of course I knew that dogs would sometimes search
Speaker 1: and chase down escaped convicts, so my mind was blown.
Speaker 1: I did know all of those things to be true.
Speaker 1: I knew that dogs did have jobs, I just never
Speaker 1: really thought about it. And I certainly didn't know they
Speaker 1: had jobs where they helped people well, later in my career,
Speaker 1: of course, I've been very fortunate to work with dogs
Speaker 1: many many times, canine searching for bombs, missing elderly, lost children,
Speaker 1: finding dope, firearms, and of course an escaped prisoner or two.
Speaker 1: I've even seen the difference these incredible creatures have made
Speaker 1: in the lives of folks suffering and in need of therapy.
Speaker 1: Dogs dogs can even help identify medical issues, like alerting
Speaker 1: somebody to a seizure before it happens. I've seen in
Speaker 1: person canins that responded to the Olympic Park bombing in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and to the nine to eleven terror attacks. We
Speaker 1: owe so much to these incredible animals. One of the
Speaker 1: things that I've been lucky enough to do more than
Speaker 1: one time is watch Trace Sergeant work. Now, y'all, when
Speaker 1: I tell you work, I mean she works. We have
Speaker 1: searched for evidence behind a home. She went down to
Speaker 1: South Georgia for me on a missing person. We have
Speaker 1: worked a murder case, searching for evidence in the woods.
Speaker 1: We've even worked to Dixie Mafia case together. Trace has
Speaker 1: never told me no when I've called and asked for
Speaker 1: her help, not once. Now I want y'all understand she's
Speaker 1: got dogs that are expertly trained. They need water, they
Speaker 1: need food, they need vest. Her car needs gasoline, she
Speaker 1: needs food and water. She's never asked me for anything
Speaker 1: to tell you a little bit about her career. She
Speaker 1: is a PhD candidate. She has animals that she trains
Speaker 1: and has owned ready for movies. So if sometimes you
Speaker 1: see a turtle or a bird or a goat in
Speaker 1: a movie, could absolutely be one of hers. So on
Speaker 1: top of these canines that assist law enforcement and do
Speaker 1: search and rescue, she's got her hand and a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff. She even has her own podcast. This
Speaker 1: is a very accomplished, very busy woman, and we were
Speaker 1: lucky enough to get her on the Melissa Wolfenberg case.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quit talking so we can get Trace in here,
Speaker 1: because not only is she fascinating, the way she talks
Speaker 1: about her dogs is just it's awesome. So Tray Sergeant,
Speaker 1: welcome to Zone seven. Well, thank you, Cheryl. It is
Speaker 1: a pleasure and a privilege to be here, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate the invitation. I've been doing this for many years
Speaker 1: and people are still fascinated by what these dogs can
Speaker 1: do and all the different areas that you've mentioned. How
Speaker 1: did you get into this trace? That's a really good question, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: And when I'm asked that, it's not a real simple answer,
Speaker 1: but I will give you the water down reader digest
Speaker 1: version of it. So many years ago, I was busy
Speaker 1: with school and work, and I was having to work
Speaker 1: to put myself through college and just kind of the
Speaker 1: craziness of all that. I didn't have any animals at
Speaker 1: the time, but I grew up with dogs and nothing
Speaker 1: you know, special as far as working dogs, but just
Speaker 1: your regular loved pet. So when I finished college, I
Speaker 1: knew I wanted to get a dog, but I also
Speaker 1: knew that I wanted to do something special or different
Speaker 1: with that dog. I had no idea what that would be,
Speaker 1: but I knew I wanted something more than just a companion. So,
Speaker 1: as luck would have it, I was living in Alabama
Speaker 1: at the time, that's where I'm originally from, and I
Speaker 1: currently live in Georgia now, and met a lot of
Speaker 1: folks in Alabama that did a lot of different things
Speaker 1: with dogs, which is agility and obedience and things like that.
Speaker 1: I did locate a local breeder that bred some German shepherds,
Speaker 1: and in my research I discovered that German Shepherds were
Speaker 1: really a perfect match for me, and they really are
Speaker 1: a great fit for me and my breed of choice,
Speaker 1: so to speak, and the kind of work I do.
Speaker 1: Although I've worked other dogs and other breeds do incredibly
Speaker 1: well with this kind of work as well, but for
Speaker 1: me particularly, I started with German Shepherds, so I kind
Speaker 1: of have a special place in my heart for them.
Speaker 1: So I see this little of puppies and one comes
Speaker 1: running to me, and I really want to emphasize that
Speaker 1: I truly did not know what end of the dog
Speaker 1: barked when I started on this journey, and I'm not
Speaker 1: exaggerating about that. I knew nothing about training a dog.
Speaker 1: Knew nothing about drives and instincts and what entails a
Speaker 1: working dog and all of those things that are so
Speaker 1: important for these dogs and all the different jobs that
Speaker 1: we asked them to do. With that being said, the
Speaker 1: first puppy that comes running to me, it was love
Speaker 1: at first sight. And as I said, I didn't know
Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted to do with the dog, but
Speaker 1: as faith would have it, it stepped in and it
Speaker 1: planted that seed for me. And that is a article
Speaker 1: that was from Reader's digest and I still have it
Speaker 1: to this day about a woman with a German shepherd
Speaker 1: that found a missing three year old child and something
Speaker 1: just a lightbulb came on and I thought, Wow, you
Speaker 1: know what. I don't know what's involved, but something just
Speaker 1: really hit home with me, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know how to do this. I
Speaker 1: don't know where to start, but dad, gumm it, if
Speaker 1: she can do it, I can do it too. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of started my journey in kind of an
Speaker 1: accidental road to discovering what I was supposed to do
Speaker 1: with my life and what I was really born to do,
Speaker 1: and what I was so lucky to find my passion
Speaker 1: in life. And I've recognized over the years not many
Speaker 1: people are lucky to find that, especially at such a
Speaker 1: young age, but I was no question. My favorite part
Speaker 1: of that whole story is that little dog found you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was an incredible, what I didn't know at the time,
Speaker 1: a life changing moment for me. So I realized this cute, adorable,
Speaker 1: little fuzzy Puffy was going to be big and probably
Speaker 1: much stronger than me and very short time. So that's
Speaker 1: when I realized I needed to reach out to people
Speaker 1: that understood what Grumman shepherds were about and how to
Speaker 1: train them, and I met some amazing people along the way,
Speaker 1: but it just again wasn't exactly what I was looking for.
Speaker 1: But when I read that article, that's when I realized, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm supposed to do with that said again,
Speaker 1: still living in Alabama, I started making some phone calls.
Speaker 1: Some people kept telling me about this particular deputy sheriff
Speaker 1: that was, unbeknownst to me, was kind of a legend
Speaker 1: in his own way there with the local sheriff's office,
Speaker 1: and they said, listen, if you want to know about
Speaker 1: working dogs and what's involved in searching for people and
Speaker 1: how to train them and all the ins and outs,
Speaker 1: he's the go to guy. I would like to emphasize
Speaker 1: that the best part about my life at that point
Speaker 1: in time and years after that and getting involved in
Speaker 1: the things that I have gotten involved with over the years,
Speaker 1: is that I was young, dumb, stupid, and naive. I
Speaker 1: had no idea what I was getting myself into. That's
Speaker 1: the best combination, isn't it. It really is now if
Speaker 1: I know now what I you know what I know now?
Speaker 1: Back then i'd probably say, are you out of your mind?
Speaker 1: Why would you even think about doing something like that?
Speaker 1: But I didn't. So it helped when you're young, dumb, stupid, naive,
Speaker 1: and quite frankly fearless, because I just I just really
Speaker 1: had no concept of what it was all about. And
Speaker 1: it was this amazing, grand adventure. So with that said,
Speaker 1: I being young and stupid, I thought, oh well, I'll
Speaker 1: just call him up to see, you know, if he would,
Speaker 1: you know, at least give me some advice or suggestions
Speaker 1: on what to do. And it was some time before
Speaker 1: we even got together. We met and he evaluated my
Speaker 1: dog at the time was his name was Zach. He said, well,
Speaker 1: he seems like a pretty nice dog and and he said,
Speaker 1: you seem pretty pretty committed to this. And I tell
Speaker 1: you what, I will make you a deal. I'm always
Speaker 1: looking for for people to lay tracks for my two dogs,
Speaker 1: which was a German shepherd and a bloodhound. And if
Speaker 1: you do that, I will help you train your dog
Speaker 1: and show you know the ins and outs. And I thought,
Speaker 1: well that's wonderful. What does lay in tracks mean? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. So laying tracks the difference is
Speaker 1: and I will be happy to explain this in more detail,
Speaker 1: but just the laying tracks, and I'll go into the
Speaker 1: different things that dogs do for us in reference to
Speaker 1: finding people in evidence, but lay in tracks. If you
Speaker 1: think of the concept of a rabbit or a deer,
Speaker 1: is that we use the dog's natural drive to hunt
Speaker 1: down prey. Instead of let's say a wolf or a
Speaker 1: codey running down a rabbit and deer to hunt it
Speaker 1: and kill it to eat it. Dogs have those same
Speaker 1: instincts and drives. We just channel those drives. So when
Speaker 1: somebody lays a track, so I would ask you, for example, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: I would I need you to lay a track for me,
Speaker 1: So you would go, you know, a hundred yards, turn right,
Speaker 1: go a couple hundred yards, turn left, and go about
Speaker 1: one hundred more yards and hide somewhere. So that way
Speaker 1: the dog is able to quote follow your track. And
Speaker 1: that's part of their training and their maintenance and their
Speaker 1: conditioning and things like that. But we really, I would
Speaker 1: like to emphasize in all of this, I really can't
Speaker 1: take much credit for these dogs. And I've learned that
Speaker 1: over the years, we just channel those natural drives these
Speaker 1: dogs already have. They really have superpowers. And after all,
Speaker 1: the years I've been doing this, it's still like magic
Speaker 1: watching them work. It truly is incredible, how effortless and
Speaker 1: how happy that these dogs do the work that we
Speaker 1: ask them to do. And I do get that question
Speaker 1: a lot, how do you make your dogs do this?
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just the chauffeur, the cleanup crew, I'm
Speaker 1: the hairdresser, I'm the chef, I'm all of that. But
Speaker 1: I don't make these dogs do. They absolutely love it,
Speaker 1: and I can attest to that, I've seen it. They
Speaker 1: cannot wait for you to come get them out of
Speaker 1: the car. Yes, absolutely, And that journey and all of
Speaker 1: this meeting Joe was his name. He's passed away. He
Speaker 1: passed away years ago, him and some other folks, of course,
Speaker 1: being in law enforcement. My father, he too has passed away,
Speaker 1: was a firefighter EMT, so I at least had a
Speaker 1: little bit of exposure in the public safety world, but
Speaker 1: nothing like the things that Joe and the other folks
Speaker 1: taught me, the ins and outs of law enforcement, that
Speaker 1: I realized, this is what I'm supposed to do with
Speaker 1: my life. And that led to Okay, I'm searching for
Speaker 1: this person and I actually find them and they're hurt.
Speaker 1: What do I do? I don't know how to take
Speaker 1: care of them. So that's when I became an EMT.
Speaker 1: And then hanging out with the other folks as far
Speaker 1: as firefighters and emas which is Emergency management agency personnel,
Speaker 1: of course the law enforcement folks all of that, I realize,
Speaker 1: my gosh, you'll actually get paid to have this much fun.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe this. So that's when I became a firefighter.
Speaker 1: And then I realized I need some Ham radio operaio
Speaker 1: experience on how to operate a radio, so I became
Speaker 1: a Ham radio operator from there, and of course the
Speaker 1: law enforcement part of it, and through all of that,
Speaker 1: and I think it's important to share with your listeners
Speaker 1: as well as you sharel all the things that I've
Speaker 1: done in my life. You mentioned about the movies and
Speaker 1: production world that literally exploded here in Georgia. I have
Speaker 1: my own farm and I have working dogs for that.
Speaker 1: I'm actually was a regional representative for a nationwide company
Speaker 1: that actually places service dogs for like physically challenged individuals.
Speaker 1: I did that a number of years, extremely rewarding. Can
Speaker 1: I say all that to say all the things that
Speaker 1: I've done in my life. The dogs have always been
Speaker 1: the keystone always that never changed and to this day
Speaker 1: that has not changed. From reading that reader's Digest article,
Speaker 1: to meeting Joe, which became my mentor, to meeting the
Speaker 1: other law enforcement folks and the other public safety professionals,
Speaker 1: That's when I realized that's what I'm supposed to do
Speaker 1: with my life. From their doors opened and a ventures
Speaker 1: happened that I wasn't even aware of, meaning that I'm
Speaker 1: on a federal task force team. I've been on international missions.
Speaker 1: I've been around the country doing missing person cases, some
Speaker 1: of them very high profile, and of course a lot
Speaker 1: of cases here in Georgia and Alabama. I've worked bomb dogs.
Speaker 1: I did that over in Iraq for a number of years.
Speaker 1: I've worked with again, especially trained dogs that help people
Speaker 1: with physical challenges and disabilities. Of course my farm dogs
Speaker 1: all of that. But people know me most as a
Speaker 1: subject matter expert in missing person cases, both dead and
Speaker 1: a life. I mean, I've worked with numerous agencies and
Speaker 1: your name will come up when we're putting together any
Speaker 1: type of team. It's something you should be really proud
Speaker 1: of because you have built something that is extraordinary. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Cheryl. All the things that I've done,
Speaker 1: it's been as a volunteer basis, and it never occurred
Speaker 1: to me to ever make money doing this, and I
Speaker 1: want listeners to know that this is a very expensive endeavor.
Speaker 1: I don't do it for the money. I never have
Speaker 1: and I never will. When I did these things, it
Speaker 1: was with my own personal dogs. I never had an
Speaker 1: agency dog. Always use my own personal dogs because that
Speaker 1: gave me a lot of flexibility to be able to
Speaker 1: help whoever needs it. That has really I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that when I first started this, but that really helped
Speaker 1: out a lot. Sometimes. You know, some people weren't happy
Speaker 1: with that, and I understand that, but for me, it
Speaker 1: was never about politics. And I would say the best
Speaker 1: statement I can explain on that is that I always
Speaker 1: put people before politics and principles before policies. And I
Speaker 1: can attest to it. I've seen it, I've witnessed it.
Speaker 1: You know, one thing that you mentioned that I want
Speaker 1: to really stress to the young people listening and the
Speaker 1: older people too, it don't matter when it's your dog.
Speaker 1: Somebody can't tell you what you can or can't do
Speaker 1: with it. And I think that was brilliant even though
Speaker 1: you might not have started it because of that, it's
Speaker 1: a fabulous result of it. I would agree. Even when
Speaker 1: I was working with the local Sheriff's office, I was
Speaker 1: running down oh my gosh, cop killers, rapist, murderers, thugs,
Speaker 1: you name it, and the good lord and my poor
Speaker 1: guardian Angel. I know it's warm completely out, but it's
Speaker 1: done a really good job over the ears, because there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of times. I gotta be honest, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: I don't understand why I survived. I don't understand why
Speaker 1: I live through that, but I'm so thankful that I did.
Speaker 1: I think, Cheryl, you you may get this feedback from folks,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, it's amazing what you do and how
Speaker 1: exciting and how cool and sexy and all of that.
Speaker 1: And I get that too, especially with the dogs. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, you see ten seconds of my life. It's
Speaker 1: a very very short snapshot. It's not glamorous. It's not
Speaker 1: for the lighthearted, and it's not a lot of things
Speaker 1: people ask, you know, how do you not get you know,
Speaker 1: depressed or fresh traded or mad or angry or whatever,
Speaker 1: or gets just all caught up and again, the high
Speaker 1: emotionally charged kind of things that these especially homicide cases
Speaker 1: can really really cause a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of good things, but a lot of, you know,
Speaker 1: really weird things too. And I just tell folks, I
Speaker 1: just stay focused on why I'm doing this and what's
Speaker 1: really important, and that is these families that have found
Speaker 1: themselves and a horrible, horrible, unimaginable nightmare and a living hell.
Speaker 1: And I've worked with so many families over the years
Speaker 1: that I have come to recognize it doesn't matter who
Speaker 1: they are, where they come from, why their loved one
Speaker 1: is missing. What matters is that the not knowing is
Speaker 1: the absolute worst life that these people can live. Karen
Speaker 1: and I that you talked. You know you heard Karen
Speaker 1: last week, but we talked over and over and over
Speaker 1: who should we bring on this first grouping. And I
Speaker 1: wanted an eclectic group, but I wanted a group that
Speaker 1: I knew would jail immediately, get on the same page immediately.
Speaker 1: And again we had assistant distric attorney Adrian Love, investigator Stein,
Speaker 1: Melissa's mama, Norma, her sister Tina, doctor Dwayne Thompson, myself,
Speaker 1: and Karen, and of course Trace. And when Trace pulls
Speaker 1: up in her big old red truck. And you can
Speaker 1: already hear the dogs barking. They know they're going to work.
Speaker 1: They're excited. And she's got her vest own and she's
Speaker 1: got their water, and she's got everything, and she takes
Speaker 1: time to speak to everybody to make sure she understand
Speaker 1: the layout. You know, where do you think this happened?
Speaker 1: Where was this found? Where was that found? So that
Speaker 1: when her dogs are alerting or pulling her somewhere, she's
Speaker 1: going to understand why that possibly makes sense when I
Speaker 1: tell you I'm watching a partnership, almost like a couple
Speaker 1: ice skating. Her and her dogs are so in sync.
Speaker 1: She understands exactly what they're doing. And where it looked
Speaker 1: to me, I was gonna tell y'all, it looked to
Speaker 1: me like that first dog was pulling her, dragging her
Speaker 1: in the woods. Trace never missed a beat or a step. Now,
Speaker 1: in Georgia in the summer, the woods get thick and
Speaker 1: we have kudzu that takes over everything, and there's briars
Speaker 1: and it's hard to make your way through any of
Speaker 1: it if you have a hatchet. Well, that dog just disappeared,
Speaker 1: and Trace disappeared right behind him. It was like nothing
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. It was like the
Speaker 1: woods just swallowed them whole, and I could hear the dog,
Speaker 1: I could hear Trace, and then I didn't hear anything
Speaker 1: for a long time, and then they both emerged out
Speaker 1: of the woods and she got ready to run the
Speaker 1: second dog. Now, Trace, tell them why at a scene
Speaker 1: like Melissa's on Avon Avenue, which is, for all purposes,
Speaker 1: a small crime scene for you to search, why is
Speaker 1: it important to have two dogs or more? It's important
Speaker 1: to let the viewer or listeners know what inspired me
Speaker 1: to do that. It actually happened years ago. Not to
Speaker 1: get too personal, but it was part of this journey
Speaker 1: that I have been on with my dogs, and I've
Speaker 1: had a number of dogs over the years. So if
Speaker 1: we go back to the Natalie Holloway case, which happened
Speaker 1: many years ago, I would still live in Alabama at
Speaker 1: the time, and long story short, I was on a
Speaker 1: case in Georgia and it was for a nine year
Speaker 1: old girl that had been missing form I think over
Speaker 1: twenty years. But that day changed my life. And that
Speaker 1: was the case where Logan looking for her remains, had
Speaker 1: actually slipped down a very steep embankment and he went
Speaker 1: to the edge of the road and as a car
Speaker 1: came around, it hit him in the head and killed
Speaker 1: him instantly. It really really hit me hard because these
Speaker 1: dogs are more than just team members to me, their family.
Speaker 1: I just felt that day that I felled him. He
Speaker 1: never felled me. He always protected me, He always protected
Speaker 1: my life because I trusted him one and that it
Speaker 1: took me a while to get over that one. But
Speaker 1: I also learned from my experience with Logan, I will
Speaker 1: never ever be without at least two, sometimes three working
Speaker 1: dogs at any one time. So, you know, it's kind
Speaker 1: of worked out for the best now it has worked out.
Speaker 1: And from an investigative standpoint, as a crime scene investigator,
Speaker 1: when you work two dogs and both dolls go to
Speaker 1: the same area and alert and both dolls have given
Speaker 1: you the same information, then that's just a money tree,
Speaker 1: it is, and it's you know, it's the old saying
Speaker 1: that two heads are better than one. Well, two noses
Speaker 1: are better than one. Not to say that one dog
Speaker 1: is better than the other, but it does help not
Speaker 1: only from an investigative point of view, but also from
Speaker 1: a prosecution point of view to say that this wasn't
Speaker 1: just an anomaly. This wasn't just one dog just having
Speaker 1: an interesting day. But we have not only one, but
Speaker 1: two and now three confirmed hits in the same area.
Speaker 1: So now we've got to figure out why did these
Speaker 1: dogs do this? Is it connected to what we're looking for,
Speaker 1: does it have anything to do with the case that
Speaker 1: were involved with, or is it something totally unrelated. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was talking to Karen Greer and Dwayne
Speaker 1: Thompson the other day and I told them a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, I was back on scene on Avon Avenue.
Speaker 1: And now it's almost the perfect time because it's warm,
Speaker 1: but all the leaves are gone, all the brushes back.
Speaker 1: You can see just easy walking, you know, large like
Speaker 1: rusted type machinery and cans and bottles and mattresses. It
Speaker 1: might be a better time to search than when we
Speaker 1: originally went there. Well, Cheryl, you bring up an excellent
Speaker 1: point and one of the things I've learned over the years. Again,
Speaker 1: when I started this, I really had blinders on that. Okay,
Speaker 1: I have a dog. I got to go find something.
Speaker 1: I had to go find something. We're looking for a human,
Speaker 1: you know, that's run away. We're looking for you, a
Speaker 1: homicide victim, we're looking for evidence. But what I've actually
Speaker 1: learned and I would say that has changed in my
Speaker 1: strategic approach to these cases, not only from the dogs perspective,
Speaker 1: but also from an investigative perspective as far as how
Speaker 1: I approach different areas, is that it's important for people.
Speaker 1: And I share this with folks when we talk about
Speaker 1: detection dogs. They do not find bombed bodies and drugs
Speaker 1: for us. And people look at me like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: but isn't that what they're trained to do. Aren't they
Speaker 1: trained to find drugs and bombs and people? And I
Speaker 1: would saying no, they are trained to find scent. So
Speaker 1: my mindset when I'm searching in different areas, in different cases,
Speaker 1: in different times of the year, I don't look at
Speaker 1: from the perspective of yes, okay, where would a body
Speaker 1: be or where would this be, but where would scent be?
Speaker 1: And scent behavior changes throughout the day. So if we,
Speaker 1: let's say, search in the early morning, scent conditions can
Speaker 1: be very very different, especially here in the South in
Speaker 1: the summertime and it's very hot and humid and things
Speaker 1: like that. Scent in the middle of the day is
Speaker 1: almost non existent because the hot sun, and the heat
Speaker 1: literally zaps it. It literally kills scent. So there's a
Speaker 1: rhyme and reason of why we use these dogs in
Speaker 1: certain areas, certain times of the day, in certain times
Speaker 1: of the year. A great example of that is that
Speaker 1: when we're working with archeology projects. These are typically the
Speaker 1: Civil War, the Revolutionary War, these other type of wars
Speaker 1: that happen one hundred and fifty two hundred years ago.
Speaker 1: We never work those in the heat because not so
Speaker 1: much the dogs can't do it. It's because if the
Speaker 1: scent is not fair, the dogs will never be able
Speaker 1: to pick it up because it's not fair. So when
Speaker 1: we work these old historical projects or even cold cases,
Speaker 1: the time of the day in the time of the
Speaker 1: year does matter, not because of the abilities of the dog,
Speaker 1: but because of the behavior of the scent. Part of
Speaker 1: what I was hoping for on Melissa's case, obviously, is
Speaker 1: that we would alert on the torso possibly, and I
Speaker 1: knew if any two dogs could do it, it was
Speaker 1: going to be yours. But one thing that fascinated me
Speaker 1: is your dog had its nose to the ground probably
Speaker 1: ninety percent of the time, but I noticed a couple
Speaker 1: of times his nose would go straight up in the
Speaker 1: air that particular day. If you recall, we actually started
Speaker 1: earlier in the morning and we did spend some time
Speaker 1: speaking with the family and things like that, so as
Speaker 1: we were talking, the scent conditions changed a little bit.
Speaker 1: If you think about fog, that's the best way to
Speaker 1: kind of visually look at this for the listeners. When
Speaker 1: you see fog in the morning, it's down in the
Speaker 1: lower valleys. And if you actually watch fog as the
Speaker 1: day heats up, the fog actually lifts up. So that's
Speaker 1: a great analogy and a great example of what quote,
Speaker 1: human scent, especially cadaver scent does. It settles into the
Speaker 1: lower valleys during the evening, and as the heat of
Speaker 1: the day rises, so does the scent rise. So that's
Speaker 1: why you see those different behaviors in a dog, as
Speaker 1: far as their nose on the ground or nose up
Speaker 1: in the air. They're telling us a story. And that's
Speaker 1: where quote my mind has to step in and this
Speaker 1: partnership is that this dog is telling us a story.
Speaker 1: And what is that story telling us? When a dog
Speaker 1: alerts or some people say, you know, he's made a hit,
Speaker 1: is because they have picked up human remains scent in
Speaker 1: this area. However, as a dog handler and my mindset
Speaker 1: and what part of my job is is not only
Speaker 1: putting the dog in the right place, in the right
Speaker 1: area at the right time of day, but also reading
Speaker 1: the information and the story that he is telling us.
Speaker 1: And part of that story is change of behavior, or
Speaker 1: what we call cob So I've recognized over the years,
Speaker 1: I was so focused on, all right, my dog's got alert.
Speaker 1: I'm going to wait for this alert, which my dogs
Speaker 1: are trained to sit when they find scent. That's their
Speaker 1: trained alert behavior. So I'm so focused when I started
Speaker 1: this is to say, all right, I'm looking for the alert.
Speaker 1: Is he going to sit? Is he going to say
Speaker 1: he's gonna sit? But through maturity and experience, I realized,
Speaker 1: you know, that's not the most important thing. The most
Speaker 1: important thing is reading the whole story. So when we
Speaker 1: have quote a change of behavior, that to me is
Speaker 1: just as important, because scent, sometimes, especially in these really
Speaker 1: old cases like Melissa's, can be so fickle and so
Speaker 1: faint that that slightish quote change of behavior, the rise
Speaker 1: of the dog's head, or the change of direction in
Speaker 1: his nose or his tail, or something that in itself,
Speaker 1: maybe the only thing that the dog does that gives
Speaker 1: me some hint that he may be picking something up.
Speaker 1: But the scent is so fickle and so faint and
Speaker 1: so difficult, and the conditions are so challenging right now,
Speaker 1: that may be the only thing he can give me.
Speaker 1: And you know it's so important. What you just mentioned
Speaker 1: about change of behavior is for me, I hammer and
Speaker 1: hammer and hammer patterns, patterns, patterns, and as soon as
Speaker 1: somebody breaks a pattern, that's my first red flag. So
Speaker 1: you're saying the opposite is also true. It could also
Speaker 1: be a positive thing. But again, I know when we
Speaker 1: were out there at Melissa's scene, you know, your dogs
Speaker 1: were telling you all kinds of things and nothing was
Speaker 1: going to be negative. There was no failure on that day,
Speaker 1: and we all talked about it. One thing your dogs
Speaker 1: did was told us where the evidence wasn't So the
Speaker 1: whole thing was powerful for me. And I just want
Speaker 1: to ask you one more question, and I want people
Speaker 1: to know the overall about that day. It was hot,
Speaker 1: and you were wearing your full uniform, and you were
Speaker 1: working these dogs, running basically in and out of the woods,
Speaker 1: in and out of briars, in and out of other
Speaker 1: terrain that was difficult to traverse. But at the end
Speaker 1: of it, you would run two dogs for I don't
Speaker 1: know how long you would already walk be seen yourself
Speaker 1: to familiarize yourself. But then trace you took so much
Speaker 1: time with Melissa's mama and explained exactly what you did,
Speaker 1: exactly what the dogs told you about, exactly what they
Speaker 1: were capable of and weren't capable of. Just watching you
Speaker 1: with her, I just thought, man, this is a part
Speaker 1: of running a canine that most people probably don't know,
Speaker 1: but I thought that part was just as important. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Cheryl. There's two parts to what you
Speaker 1: just said. When I'm working with any officials and even
Speaker 1: with family members, I can only promise them one thing.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we will know more
Speaker 1: than we did at the beginning of this day. And
Speaker 1: you're right. These dogs they tell us two things. They
Speaker 1: tell us where something is and they tell us where
Speaker 1: something isn't. It's extremely rare that we take the dogs
Speaker 1: to an area and we find what we're looking for
Speaker 1: right away. It happens, and we're always anxiety when that happens.
Speaker 1: But it's rare. I have learned that knowing where something
Speaker 1: isn't can be just as important, if not even more important,
Speaker 1: than knowing where something is. And most of these cases
Speaker 1: are not about the smoking gun, so to speak. It's
Speaker 1: about just hard dogged perseverance, determination, not giving up, leaving
Speaker 1: no stone unturned, and checking every place. Even if it's
Speaker 1: not a high priority area, at least we can mark
Speaker 1: it off the list. It's never a waste of time.
Speaker 1: It's never, like you say, a negative thing. We now
Speaker 1: know more about this case than we did the day before,
Speaker 1: and we know she's not here, her remains aren't here,
Speaker 1: and what we're looking for is not here, and we
Speaker 1: can move on from that. So I would say that
Speaker 1: these dogs are so much, so many things that yes,
Speaker 1: they are a partner, they are a teammate, they are
Speaker 1: a tool, but they're also investigators And like you as
Speaker 1: an investigator, myself as an investigator, and so many investigators
Speaker 1: out there, you may go through literally hundreds of tips
Speaker 1: and leads and nothing comes of it. But it's always
Speaker 1: that one tip, that one lead, and I always approach
Speaker 1: it that way. It could be this could be that
Speaker 1: one day. So with that said and tying it back
Speaker 1: into the family whether you're getting paid for this, whether
Speaker 1: you're volunteering your time, it doesn't matter. These families deserve
Speaker 1: the very best I can give to them. These dogs.
Speaker 1: They the families deserve the very best that these dogs
Speaker 1: can give to them. And I approach every case that
Speaker 1: way because the families deserve that. I have workcases where
Speaker 1: we did find the person's loved one and we immediately
Speaker 1: have to come out and we have to give a
Speaker 1: death notification. And it's extremely as you know, emotional, the grieving,
Speaker 1: the screaming, the hitting, the punching, the denial, the anger,
Speaker 1: the just the heartache, all of that at the same time, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: I'd rather have that any day than what I did
Speaker 1: and Melissa's case, and I've done it so many times
Speaker 1: it doesn't get any easier because you can see the
Speaker 1: expression on their face when they there's just something about
Speaker 1: a dog and they're like, oh wow, it's rentin ten,
Speaker 1: it's Lassie, it's you know, all of these kind of
Speaker 1: heroic kind of things, and these dogs do have superpowers,
Speaker 1: and for them to see the dog and get out
Speaker 1: of the vehicle, it's almost it's like, Oh, finally, finally
Speaker 1: they're going to give the answers we're so desperately need
Speaker 1: and deserve. It's a lot of responsibility. So I rather
Speaker 1: have the screaming and the hurting and the pain of
Speaker 1: a death notification, and I would walking out of the
Speaker 1: woods and looking at Melissa's family or any other family
Speaker 1: member and saying, I'm sorry, I wish I could give
Speaker 1: you answers. I do have answers for you, but we
Speaker 1: haven't found your loved one yet, and it's just it's
Speaker 1: heartbreaking for them, It really is. My heart really again
Speaker 1: hurts for them. The reality is a lot of these
Speaker 1: cases do become cold, and not to say that they're
Speaker 1: not important, but there's only so much law enforcement can do.
Speaker 1: So it's really heartbreaking that these families think, well, nobody
Speaker 1: cares anymore. And I just want them to know that, yes,
Speaker 1: people still care, and God willing, as long as I
Speaker 1: can physically do this and the dogs can physically do this,
Speaker 1: we're going to continue searching for Melissa in any of
Speaker 1: those other missing persons as long as we can. Well,
Speaker 1: you know I'm gonna call you because I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what you did that day. For me, I have a
Speaker 1: theory of what I think happened to the torso and
Speaker 1: the fact you didn't find it helped me solidify what
Speaker 1: I believe, and I think that speaks to the killer
Speaker 1: and the killer's mindset at the time. So, Trace, I
Speaker 1: cannot thank you enough for coming. I cannot thank you
Speaker 1: enough for being a part of my Zone seven for
Speaker 1: all these years and again answering the call every time
Speaker 1: I make it to you. So I appreciate you so
Speaker 1: much and we will, I'm sure talk to you again.
Speaker 1: And y'all, I'm going to end Zone seven the way
Speaker 1: I always do with a quote from somebody in my
Speaker 1: Zone seven. This quote comes from Todd Pitchford, who's a
Speaker 1: detection dog expert with Detection Dogs of America, and Todd says,
Speaker 1: trust your dog. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this his own seven.
Speaker 1: Next week, Zone seven will hear from Carl Patton, the
Speaker 1: Flint River Killer, in the only way that Carl Patton
Speaker 1: can communicate with us from behind the walls of his
Speaker 1: prison cell. He will speak to us about his daughter Melissa,
Speaker 1: his crimes, his life before and after being arrested. There
Speaker 1: is no other case like this in history where the
Speaker 1: killer reaches out to law enforcement and then a nonprofit
Speaker 1: for help in solving their daughter's murder.