1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: The first time I ever saw a working dog, I 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: was four or five years old, and there was a 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: dog helping a visually impaired lady crossposta leon in downtown 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: atlant As always, my mother took great care and concern, 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: explaining everything that dog was doing, listening for cars, watching 6 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: for cars and other people, making sure when the light 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: changed they had time to cross the street. I was amazed. 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we had a dog, but he couldn't do 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: any of that. And she explained that this dog was 10 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: at work, not just a family pet, but literally he 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: had a job. And I told her that I didn't 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: know dogs could have jobs, and she said to me, 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: you've seen other dogs working on farms, heard animals, you've 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: seen dogs in movies. That's a job, like Lassie had 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: a job. I had never thought about it that way. 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: She said that our local jewelry store had that watchdog. 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: And of course I knew that dogs would sometimes search 18 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: and chase down escaped convicts, so my mind was blown. 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: I did know all of those things to be true. 20 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: I knew that dogs did have jobs, I just never 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: really thought about it. And I certainly didn't know they 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,279 Speaker 1: had jobs where they helped people well, later in my career, 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: of course, I've been very fortunate to work with dogs 24 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: many many times, canine searching for bombs, missing elderly, lost children, 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: finding dope, firearms, and of course an escaped prisoner or two. 26 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,919 Speaker 1: I've even seen the difference these incredible creatures have made 27 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: in the lives of folks suffering and in need of therapy. 28 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: Dogs dogs can even help identify medical issues, like alerting 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: somebody to a seizure before it happens. I've seen in 30 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: person canins that responded to the Olympic Park bombing in 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: Atlanta and to the nine to eleven terror attacks. We 32 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: owe so much to these incredible animals. One of the 33 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: things that I've been lucky enough to do more than 34 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: one time is watch Trace Sergeant work. Now, y'all, when 35 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: I tell you work, I mean she works. We have 36 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: searched for evidence behind a home. She went down to 37 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: South Georgia for me on a missing person. We have 38 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: worked a murder case, searching for evidence in the woods. 39 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: We've even worked to Dixie Mafia case together. Trace has 40 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: never told me no when I've called and asked for 41 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: her help, not once. Now I want y'all understand she's 42 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: got dogs that are expertly trained. They need water, they 43 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: need food, they need vest. Her car needs gasoline, she 44 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: needs food and water. She's never asked me for anything 45 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: to tell you a little bit about her career. She 46 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: is a PhD candidate. She has animals that she trains 47 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: and has owned ready for movies. So if sometimes you 48 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: see a turtle or a bird or a goat in 49 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: a movie, could absolutely be one of hers. So on 50 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: top of these canines that assist law enforcement and do 51 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: search and rescue, she's got her hand and a lot 52 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: of other stuff. She even has her own podcast. This 53 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: is a very accomplished, very busy woman, and we were 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: lucky enough to get her on the Melissa Wolfenberg case. 55 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quit talking so we can get Trace in here, 56 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: because not only is she fascinating, the way she talks 57 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: about her dogs is just it's awesome. So Tray Sergeant, 58 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: welcome to Zone seven. Well, thank you, Cheryl. It is 59 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: a pleasure and a privilege to be here, and I 60 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: appreciate the invitation. I've been doing this for many years 61 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: and people are still fascinated by what these dogs can 62 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: do and all the different areas that you've mentioned. How 63 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: did you get into this trace? That's a really good question, Cheryl, 64 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: And when I'm asked that, it's not a real simple answer, 65 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: but I will give you the water down reader digest 66 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: version of it. So many years ago, I was busy 67 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: with school and work, and I was having to work 68 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: to put myself through college and just kind of the 69 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: craziness of all that. I didn't have any animals at 70 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: the time, but I grew up with dogs and nothing 71 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, special as far as working dogs, but just 72 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: your regular loved pet. So when I finished college, I 73 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: knew I wanted to get a dog, but I also 74 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: knew that I wanted to do something special or different 75 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: with that dog. I had no idea what that would be, 76 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: but I knew I wanted something more than just a companion. So, 77 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: as luck would have it, I was living in Alabama 78 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: at the time, that's where I'm originally from, and I 79 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: currently live in Georgia now, and met a lot of 80 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: folks in Alabama that did a lot of different things 81 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: with dogs, which is agility and obedience and things like that. 82 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: I did locate a local breeder that bred some German shepherds, 83 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: and in my research I discovered that German Shepherds were 84 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: really a perfect match for me, and they really are 85 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: a great fit for me and my breed of choice, 86 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: so to speak, and the kind of work I do. 87 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: Although I've worked other dogs and other breeds do incredibly 88 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: well with this kind of work as well, but for 89 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: me particularly, I started with German Shepherds, so I kind 90 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: of have a special place in my heart for them. 91 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: So I see this little of puppies and one comes 92 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: running to me, and I really want to emphasize that 93 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: I truly did not know what end of the dog 94 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: barked when I started on this journey, and I'm not 95 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: exaggerating about that. I knew nothing about training a dog. 96 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: Knew nothing about drives and instincts and what entails a 97 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: working dog and all of those things that are so 98 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: important for these dogs and all the different jobs that 99 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: we asked them to do. With that being said, the 100 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: first puppy that comes running to me, it was love 101 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: at first sight. And as I said, I didn't know 102 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted to do with the dog, but 103 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: as faith would have it, it stepped in and it 104 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: planted that seed for me. And that is a article 105 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: that was from Reader's digest and I still have it 106 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: to this day about a woman with a German shepherd 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: that found a missing three year old child and something 108 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: just a lightbulb came on and I thought, Wow, you 109 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 1: know what. I don't know what's involved, but something just 110 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: really hit home with me, and I thought to myself, 111 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know how to do this. I 112 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: don't know where to start, but dad, gumm it, if 113 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: she can do it, I can do it too. And 114 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: that's kind of started my journey in kind of an 115 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: accidental road to discovering what I was supposed to do 116 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: with my life and what I was really born to do, 117 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: and what I was so lucky to find my passion 118 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: in life. And I've recognized over the years not many 119 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: people are lucky to find that, especially at such a 120 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: young age, but I was no question. My favorite part 121 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: of that whole story is that little dog found you. Yeah. 122 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: It was an incredible, what I didn't know at the time, 123 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: a life changing moment for me. So I realized this cute, adorable, 124 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: little fuzzy Puffy was going to be big and probably 125 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: much stronger than me and very short time. So that's 126 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: when I realized I needed to reach out to people 127 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: that understood what Grumman shepherds were about and how to 128 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: train them, and I met some amazing people along the way, 129 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: but it just again wasn't exactly what I was looking for. 130 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: But when I read that article, that's when I realized, Wow, 131 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: that's what I'm supposed to do with that said again, 132 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: still living in Alabama, I started making some phone calls. 133 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: Some people kept telling me about this particular deputy sheriff 134 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: that was, unbeknownst to me, was kind of a legend 135 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: in his own way there with the local sheriff's office, 136 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: and they said, listen, if you want to know about 137 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: working dogs and what's involved in searching for people and 138 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: how to train them and all the ins and outs, 139 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: he's the go to guy. I would like to emphasize 140 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: that the best part about my life at that point 141 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: in time and years after that and getting involved in 142 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: the things that I have gotten involved with over the years, 143 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: is that I was young, dumb, stupid, and naive. I 144 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: had no idea what I was getting myself into. That's 145 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: the best combination, isn't it. It really is now if 146 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: I know now what I you know what I know now? 147 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: Back then i'd probably say, are you out of your mind? 148 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Why would you even think about doing something like that? 149 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: But I didn't. So it helped when you're young, dumb, stupid, naive, 150 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: and quite frankly fearless, because I just I just really 151 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: had no concept of what it was all about. And 152 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: it was this amazing, grand adventure. So with that said, 153 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: I being young and stupid, I thought, oh well, I'll 154 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: just call him up to see, you know, if he would, 155 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, at least give me some advice or suggestions 156 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: on what to do. And it was some time before 157 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: we even got together. We met and he evaluated my 158 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: dog at the time was his name was Zach. He said, well, 159 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: he seems like a pretty nice dog and and he said, 160 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: you seem pretty pretty committed to this. And I tell 161 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: you what, I will make you a deal. I'm always 162 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: looking for for people to lay tracks for my two dogs, 163 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: which was a German shepherd and a bloodhound. And if 164 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: you do that, I will help you train your dog 165 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: and show you know the ins and outs. And I thought, 166 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: well that's wonderful. What does lay in tracks mean? Well, 167 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: that's a good question. So laying tracks the difference is 168 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: and I will be happy to explain this in more detail, 169 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: but just the laying tracks, and I'll go into the 170 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: different things that dogs do for us in reference to 171 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: finding people in evidence, but lay in tracks. If you 172 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: think of the concept of a rabbit or a deer, 173 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: is that we use the dog's natural drive to hunt 174 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: down prey. Instead of let's say a wolf or a 175 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: codey running down a rabbit and deer to hunt it 176 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: and kill it to eat it. Dogs have those same 177 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: instincts and drives. We just channel those drives. So when 178 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: somebody lays a track, so I would ask you, for example, Cheryl, 179 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: I would I need you to lay a track for me, 180 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: So you would go, you know, a hundred yards, turn right, 181 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: go a couple hundred yards, turn left, and go about 182 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: one hundred more yards and hide somewhere. So that way 183 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: the dog is able to quote follow your track. And 184 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: that's part of their training and their maintenance and their 185 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: conditioning and things like that. But we really, I would 186 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: like to emphasize in all of this, I really can't 187 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: take much credit for these dogs. And I've learned that 188 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: over the years, we just channel those natural drives these 189 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: dogs already have. They really have superpowers. And after all, 190 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: the years I've been doing this, it's still like magic 191 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: watching them work. It truly is incredible, how effortless and 192 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: how happy that these dogs do the work that we 193 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: ask them to do. And I do get that question 194 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: a lot, how do you make your dogs do this? 195 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just the chauffeur, the cleanup crew, I'm 196 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: the hairdresser, I'm the chef, I'm all of that. But 197 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: I don't make these dogs do. They absolutely love it, 198 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: and I can attest to that, I've seen it. They 199 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: cannot wait for you to come get them out of 200 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: the car. Yes, absolutely, And that journey and all of 201 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: this meeting Joe was his name. He's passed away. He 202 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: passed away years ago, him and some other folks, of course, 203 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: being in law enforcement. My father, he too has passed away, 204 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: was a firefighter EMT, so I at least had a 205 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: little bit of exposure in the public safety world, but 206 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: nothing like the things that Joe and the other folks 207 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: taught me, the ins and outs of law enforcement, that 208 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: I realized, this is what I'm supposed to do with 209 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: my life. And that led to Okay, I'm searching for 210 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: this person and I actually find them and they're hurt. 211 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: What do I do? I don't know how to take 212 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: care of them. So that's when I became an EMT. 213 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: And then hanging out with the other folks as far 214 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: as firefighters and emas which is Emergency management agency personnel, 215 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: of course the law enforcement folks all of that, I realize, 216 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: my gosh, you'll actually get paid to have this much fun. 217 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: I cannot believe this. So that's when I became a firefighter. 218 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: And then I realized I need some Ham radio operaio 219 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: experience on how to operate a radio, so I became 220 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: a Ham radio operator from there, and of course the 221 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: law enforcement part of it, and through all of that, 222 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: and I think it's important to share with your listeners 223 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: as well as you sharel all the things that I've 224 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: done in my life. You mentioned about the movies and 225 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: production world that literally exploded here in Georgia. I have 226 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: my own farm and I have working dogs for that. 227 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm actually was a regional representative for a nationwide company 228 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: that actually places service dogs for like physically challenged individuals. 229 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: I did that a number of years, extremely rewarding. Can 230 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: I say all that to say all the things that 231 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: I've done in my life. The dogs have always been 232 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: the keystone always that never changed and to this day 233 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: that has not changed. From reading that reader's Digest article, 234 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: to meeting Joe, which became my mentor, to meeting the 235 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: other law enforcement folks and the other public safety professionals, 236 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: That's when I realized that's what I'm supposed to do 237 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: with my life. From their doors opened and a ventures 238 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: happened that I wasn't even aware of, meaning that I'm 239 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: on a federal task force team. I've been on international missions. 240 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: I've been around the country doing missing person cases, some 241 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: of them very high profile, and of course a lot 242 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: of cases here in Georgia and Alabama. I've worked bomb dogs. 243 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: I did that over in Iraq for a number of years. 244 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: I've worked with again, especially trained dogs that help people 245 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: with physical challenges and disabilities. Of course my farm dogs 246 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: all of that. But people know me most as a 247 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: subject matter expert in missing person cases, both dead and 248 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: a life. I mean, I've worked with numerous agencies and 249 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: your name will come up when we're putting together any 250 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: type of team. It's something you should be really proud 251 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: of because you have built something that is extraordinary. Well, 252 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Cheryl. All the things that I've done, 253 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: it's been as a volunteer basis, and it never occurred 254 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: to me to ever make money doing this, and I 255 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: want listeners to know that this is a very expensive endeavor. 256 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: I don't do it for the money. I never have 257 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: and I never will. When I did these things, it 258 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: was with my own personal dogs. I never had an 259 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: agency dog. Always use my own personal dogs because that 260 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: gave me a lot of flexibility to be able to 261 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: help whoever needs it. That has really I didn't realize 262 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: that when I first started this, but that really helped 263 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: out a lot. Sometimes. You know, some people weren't happy 264 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: with that, and I understand that, but for me, it 265 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: was never about politics. And I would say the best 266 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: statement I can explain on that is that I always 267 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: put people before politics and principles before policies. And I 268 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: can attest to it. I've seen it, I've witnessed it. 269 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: You know, one thing that you mentioned that I want 270 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: to really stress to the young people listening and the 271 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: older people too, it don't matter when it's your dog. 272 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: Somebody can't tell you what you can or can't do 273 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: with it. And I think that was brilliant even though 274 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,119 Speaker 1: you might not have started it because of that, it's 275 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: a fabulous result of it. I would agree. Even when 276 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: I was working with the local Sheriff's office, I was 277 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: running down oh my gosh, cop killers, rapist, murderers, thugs, 278 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: you name it, and the good lord and my poor 279 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: guardian Angel. I know it's warm completely out, but it's 280 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: done a really good job over the ears, because there's 281 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: been a lot of times. I gotta be honest, Cheryl, 282 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: I don't understand why I survived. I don't understand why 283 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: I live through that, but I'm so thankful that I did. 284 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: I think, Cheryl, you you may get this feedback from folks, 285 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, hey, it's amazing what you do and how 286 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: exciting and how cool and sexy and all of that. 287 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: And I get that too, especially with the dogs. But 288 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, you see ten seconds of my life. It's 289 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: a very very short snapshot. It's not glamorous. It's not 290 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: for the lighthearted, and it's not a lot of things 291 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: people ask, you know, how do you not get you know, 292 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: depressed or fresh traded or mad or angry or whatever, 293 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: or gets just all caught up and again, the high 294 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: emotionally charged kind of things that these especially homicide cases 295 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: can really really cause a lot of a lot of 296 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: a lot of good things, but a lot of, you know, 297 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: really weird things too. And I just tell folks, I 298 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: just stay focused on why I'm doing this and what's 299 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: really important, and that is these families that have found 300 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: themselves and a horrible, horrible, unimaginable nightmare and a living hell. 301 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: And I've worked with so many families over the years 302 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: that I have come to recognize it doesn't matter who 303 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: they are, where they come from, why their loved one 304 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: is missing. What matters is that the not knowing is 305 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: the absolute worst life that these people can live. Karen 306 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: and I that you talked. You know you heard Karen 307 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: last week, but we talked over and over and over 308 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: who should we bring on this first grouping. And I 309 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: wanted an eclectic group, but I wanted a group that 310 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: I knew would jail immediately, get on the same page immediately. 311 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: And again we had assistant distric attorney Adrian Love, investigator Stein, 312 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: Melissa's mama, Norma, her sister Tina, doctor Dwayne Thompson, myself, 313 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: and Karen, and of course Trace. And when Trace pulls 314 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: up in her big old red truck. And you can 315 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: already hear the dogs barking. They know they're going to work. 316 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: They're excited. And she's got her vest own and she's 317 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: got their water, and she's got everything, and she takes 318 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: time to speak to everybody to make sure she understand 319 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: the layout. You know, where do you think this happened? 320 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: Where was this found? Where was that found? So that 321 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: when her dogs are alerting or pulling her somewhere, she's 322 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: going to understand why that possibly makes sense when I 323 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: tell you I'm watching a partnership, almost like a couple 324 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: ice skating. Her and her dogs are so in sync. 325 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: She understands exactly what they're doing. And where it looked 326 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: to me, I was gonna tell y'all, it looked to 327 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: me like that first dog was pulling her, dragging her 328 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: in the woods. Trace never missed a beat or a step. Now, 329 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: in Georgia in the summer, the woods get thick and 330 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,959 Speaker 1: we have kudzu that takes over everything, and there's briars 331 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,239 Speaker 1: and it's hard to make your way through any of 332 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: it if you have a hatchet. Well, that dog just disappeared, 333 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: and Trace disappeared right behind him. It was like nothing 334 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. It was like the 335 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: woods just swallowed them whole, and I could hear the dog, 336 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: I could hear Trace, and then I didn't hear anything 337 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: for a long time, and then they both emerged out 338 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: of the woods and she got ready to run the 339 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: second dog. Now, Trace, tell them why at a scene 340 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: like Melissa's on Avon Avenue, which is, for all purposes, 341 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: a small crime scene for you to search, why is 342 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: it important to have two dogs or more? It's important 343 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: to let the viewer or listeners know what inspired me 344 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: to do that. It actually happened years ago. Not to 345 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: get too personal, but it was part of this journey 346 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: that I have been on with my dogs, and I've 347 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: had a number of dogs over the years. So if 348 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: we go back to the Natalie Holloway case, which happened 349 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: many years ago, I would still live in Alabama at 350 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 1: the time, and long story short, I was on a 351 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: case in Georgia and it was for a nine year 352 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: old girl that had been missing form I think over 353 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: twenty years. But that day changed my life. And that 354 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: was the case where Logan looking for her remains, had 355 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: actually slipped down a very steep embankment and he went 356 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: to the edge of the road and as a car 357 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: came around, it hit him in the head and killed 358 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: him instantly. It really really hit me hard because these 359 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: dogs are more than just team members to me, their family. 360 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,959 Speaker 1: I just felt that day that I felled him. He 361 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: never felled me. He always protected me, He always protected 362 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: my life because I trusted him one and that it 363 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: took me a while to get over that one. But 364 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: I also learned from my experience with Logan, I will 365 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: never ever be without at least two, sometimes three working 366 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: dogs at any one time. So, you know, it's kind 367 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: of worked out for the best now it has worked out. 368 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: And from an investigative standpoint, as a crime scene investigator, 369 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: when you work two dogs and both dolls go to 370 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: the same area and alert and both dolls have given 371 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: you the same information, then that's just a money tree, 372 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: it is, and it's you know, it's the old saying 373 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: that two heads are better than one. Well, two noses 374 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: are better than one. Not to say that one dog 375 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: is better than the other, but it does help not 376 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: only from an investigative point of view, but also from 377 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: a prosecution point of view to say that this wasn't 378 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: just an anomaly. This wasn't just one dog just having 379 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: an interesting day. But we have not only one, but 380 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: two and now three confirmed hits in the same area. 381 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: So now we've got to figure out why did these 382 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: dogs do this? Is it connected to what we're looking for, 383 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: does it have anything to do with the case that 384 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: were involved with, or is it something totally unrelated. And 385 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, I was talking to Karen Greer and Dwayne 386 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: Thompson the other day and I told them a couple 387 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, I was back on scene on Avon Avenue. 388 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: And now it's almost the perfect time because it's warm, 389 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: but all the leaves are gone, all the brushes back. 390 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: You can see just easy walking, you know, large like 391 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: rusted type machinery and cans and bottles and mattresses. It 392 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: might be a better time to search than when we 393 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: originally went there. Well, Cheryl, you bring up an excellent 394 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: point and one of the things I've learned over the years. Again, 395 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: when I started this, I really had blinders on that. Okay, 396 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: I have a dog. I got to go find something. 397 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: I had to go find something. We're looking for a human, 398 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, that's run away. We're looking for you, a 399 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: homicide victim, we're looking for evidence. But what I've actually 400 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: learned and I would say that has changed in my 401 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: strategic approach to these cases, not only from the dogs perspective, 402 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: but also from an investigative perspective as far as how 403 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: I approach different areas, is that it's important for people. 404 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: And I share this with folks when we talk about 405 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: detection dogs. They do not find bombed bodies and drugs 406 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: for us. And people look at me like, well, okay, 407 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: but isn't that what they're trained to do. Aren't they 408 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: trained to find drugs and bombs and people? And I 409 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: would saying no, they are trained to find scent. So 410 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 1: my mindset when I'm searching in different areas, in different cases, 411 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: in different times of the year, I don't look at 412 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: from the perspective of yes, okay, where would a body 413 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: be or where would this be, but where would scent be? 414 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: And scent behavior changes throughout the day. So if we, 415 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: let's say, search in the early morning, scent conditions can 416 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: be very very different, especially here in the South in 417 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: the summertime and it's very hot and humid and things 418 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: like that. Scent in the middle of the day is 419 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: almost non existent because the hot sun, and the heat 420 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: literally zaps it. It literally kills scent. So there's a 421 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: rhyme and reason of why we use these dogs in 422 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: certain areas, certain times of the day, in certain times 423 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: of the year. A great example of that is that 424 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: when we're working with archeology projects. These are typically the 425 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: Civil War, the Revolutionary War, these other type of wars 426 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: that happen one hundred and fifty two hundred years ago. 427 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: We never work those in the heat because not so 428 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: much the dogs can't do it. It's because if the 429 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: scent is not fair, the dogs will never be able 430 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: to pick it up because it's not fair. So when 431 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: we work these old historical projects or even cold cases, 432 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: the time of the day in the time of the 433 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: year does matter, not because of the abilities of the dog, 434 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: but because of the behavior of the scent. Part of 435 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: what I was hoping for on Melissa's case, obviously, is 436 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: that we would alert on the torso possibly, and I 437 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: knew if any two dogs could do it, it was 438 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: going to be yours. But one thing that fascinated me 439 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: is your dog had its nose to the ground probably 440 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the time, but I noticed a couple 441 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: of times his nose would go straight up in the 442 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: air that particular day. If you recall, we actually started 443 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: earlier in the morning and we did spend some time 444 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: speaking with the family and things like that, so as 445 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: we were talking, the scent conditions changed a little bit. 446 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: If you think about fog, that's the best way to 447 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of visually look at this for the listeners. When 448 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 1: you see fog in the morning, it's down in the 449 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: lower valleys. And if you actually watch fog as the 450 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: day heats up, the fog actually lifts up. So that's 451 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: a great analogy and a great example of what quote, 452 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: human scent, especially cadaver scent does. It settles into the 453 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: lower valleys during the evening, and as the heat of 454 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: the day rises, so does the scent rise. So that's 455 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: why you see those different behaviors in a dog, as 456 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: far as their nose on the ground or nose up 457 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: in the air. They're telling us a story. And that's 458 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: where quote my mind has to step in and this 459 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: partnership is that this dog is telling us a story. 460 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: And what is that story telling us? When a dog 461 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: alerts or some people say, you know, he's made a hit, 462 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: is because they have picked up human remains scent in 463 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: this area. However, as a dog handler and my mindset 464 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: and what part of my job is is not only 465 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: putting the dog in the right place, in the right 466 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: area at the right time of day, but also reading 467 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: the information and the story that he is telling us. 468 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: And part of that story is change of behavior, or 469 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: what we call cob So I've recognized over the years, 470 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: I was so focused on, all right, my dog's got alert. 471 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to wait for this alert, which my dogs 472 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: are trained to sit when they find scent. That's their 473 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: trained alert behavior. So I'm so focused when I started 474 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: this is to say, all right, I'm looking for the alert. 475 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: Is he going to sit? Is he going to say 476 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: he's gonna sit? But through maturity and experience, I realized, 477 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, that's not the most important thing. The most 478 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 1: important thing is reading the whole story. So when we 479 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: have quote a change of behavior, that to me is 480 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: just as important, because scent, sometimes, especially in these really 481 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: old cases like Melissa's, can be so fickle and so 482 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: faint that that slightish quote change of behavior, the rise 483 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: of the dog's head, or the change of direction in 484 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: his nose or his tail, or something that in itself, 485 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: maybe the only thing that the dog does that gives 486 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: me some hint that he may be picking something up. 487 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: But the scent is so fickle and so faint and 488 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: so difficult, and the conditions are so challenging right now, 489 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: that may be the only thing he can give me. 490 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: And you know it's so important. What you just mentioned 491 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: about change of behavior is for me, I hammer and 492 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: hammer and hammer patterns, patterns, patterns, and as soon as 493 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: somebody breaks a pattern, that's my first red flag. So 494 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: you're saying the opposite is also true. It could also 495 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: be a positive thing. But again, I know when we 496 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: were out there at Melissa's scene, you know, your dogs 497 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: were telling you all kinds of things and nothing was 498 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: going to be negative. There was no failure on that day, 499 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: and we all talked about it. One thing your dogs 500 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: did was told us where the evidence wasn't So the 501 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: whole thing was powerful for me. And I just want 502 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: to ask you one more question, and I want people 503 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: to know the overall about that day. It was hot, 504 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: and you were wearing your full uniform, and you were 505 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: working these dogs, running basically in and out of the woods, 506 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: in and out of briars, in and out of other 507 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: terrain that was difficult to traverse. But at the end 508 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: of it, you would run two dogs for I don't 509 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: know how long you would already walk be seen yourself 510 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: to familiarize yourself. But then trace you took so much 511 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: time with Melissa's mama and explained exactly what you did, 512 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: exactly what the dogs told you about, exactly what they 513 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: were capable of and weren't capable of. Just watching you 514 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: with her, I just thought, man, this is a part 515 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: of running a canine that most people probably don't know, 516 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: but I thought that part was just as important. Well, 517 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Cheryl. There's two parts to what you 518 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: just said. When I'm working with any officials and even 519 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: with family members, I can only promise them one thing. 520 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we will know more 521 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: than we did at the beginning of this day. And 522 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: you're right. These dogs they tell us two things. They 523 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: tell us where something is and they tell us where 524 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: something isn't. It's extremely rare that we take the dogs 525 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: to an area and we find what we're looking for 526 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: right away. It happens, and we're always anxiety when that happens. 527 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: But it's rare. I have learned that knowing where something 528 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: isn't can be just as important, if not even more important, 529 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: than knowing where something is. And most of these cases 530 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: are not about the smoking gun, so to speak. It's 531 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: about just hard dogged perseverance, determination, not giving up, leaving 532 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: no stone unturned, and checking every place. Even if it's 533 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: not a high priority area, at least we can mark 534 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: it off the list. It's never a waste of time. 535 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: It's never, like you say, a negative thing. We now 536 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: know more about this case than we did the day before, 537 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: and we know she's not here, her remains aren't here, 538 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: and what we're looking for is not here, and we 539 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: can move on from that. So I would say that 540 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: these dogs are so much, so many things that yes, 541 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: they are a partner, they are a teammate, they are 542 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: a tool, but they're also investigators And like you as 543 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: an investigator, myself as an investigator, and so many investigators 544 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: out there, you may go through literally hundreds of tips 545 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: and leads and nothing comes of it. But it's always 546 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: that one tip, that one lead, and I always approach 547 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: it that way. It could be this could be that 548 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: one day. So with that said and tying it back 549 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: into the family whether you're getting paid for this, whether 550 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: you're volunteering your time, it doesn't matter. These families deserve 551 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: the very best I can give to them. These dogs. 552 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: They the families deserve the very best that these dogs 553 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: can give to them. And I approach every case that 554 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: way because the families deserve that. I have workcases where 555 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: we did find the person's loved one and we immediately 556 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: have to come out and we have to give a 557 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: death notification. And it's extremely as you know, emotional, the grieving, 558 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: the screaming, the hitting, the punching, the denial, the anger, 559 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: the just the heartache, all of that at the same time, Cheryl, 560 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: I'd rather have that any day than what I did 561 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: and Melissa's case, and I've done it so many times 562 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: it doesn't get any easier because you can see the 563 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: expression on their face when they there's just something about 564 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: a dog and they're like, oh wow, it's rentin ten, 565 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: it's Lassie, it's you know, all of these kind of 566 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: heroic kind of things, and these dogs do have superpowers, 567 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: and for them to see the dog and get out 568 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: of the vehicle, it's almost it's like, Oh, finally, finally 569 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: they're going to give the answers we're so desperately need 570 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: and deserve. It's a lot of responsibility. So I rather 571 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: have the screaming and the hurting and the pain of 572 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: a death notification, and I would walking out of the 573 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: woods and looking at Melissa's family or any other family 574 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: member and saying, I'm sorry, I wish I could give 575 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: you answers. I do have answers for you, but we 576 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: haven't found your loved one yet, and it's just it's 577 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: heartbreaking for them, It really is. My heart really again 578 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: hurts for them. The reality is a lot of these 579 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: cases do become cold, and not to say that they're 580 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: not important, but there's only so much law enforcement can do. 581 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: So it's really heartbreaking that these families think, well, nobody 582 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: cares anymore. And I just want them to know that, yes, 583 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: people still care, and God willing, as long as I 584 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: can physically do this and the dogs can physically do this, 585 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: we're going to continue searching for Melissa in any of 586 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: those other missing persons as long as we can. Well, 587 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: you know I'm gonna call you because I'll tell you 588 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: what you did that day. For me, I have a 589 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: theory of what I think happened to the torso and 590 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: the fact you didn't find it helped me solidify what 591 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: I believe, and I think that speaks to the killer 592 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: and the killer's mindset at the time. So, Trace, I 593 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: cannot thank you enough for coming. I cannot thank you 594 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: enough for being a part of my Zone seven for 595 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: all these years and again answering the call every time 596 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: I make it to you. So I appreciate you so 597 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: much and we will, I'm sure talk to you again. 598 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: And y'all, I'm going to end Zone seven the way 599 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: I always do with a quote from somebody in my 600 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: Zone seven. This quote comes from Todd Pitchford, who's a 601 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: detection dog expert with Detection Dogs of America, and Todd says, 602 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: trust your dog. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this his own seven. 603 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: Next week, Zone seven will hear from Carl Patton, the 604 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: Flint River Killer, in the only way that Carl Patton 605 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: can communicate with us from behind the walls of his 606 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: prison cell. He will speak to us about his daughter Melissa, 607 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: his crimes, his life before and after being arrested. There 608 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: is no other case like this in history where the 609 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: killer reaches out to law enforcement and then a nonprofit 610 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: for help in solving their daughter's murder.