Speaker 1: Up next out Woud with Gianno called part of the gig,
Speaker 1: which switch six people who don't read scripture, often insuing
Speaker 1: women play little to no role in the Bible. In fact,
Speaker 1: some critics even claimed the Bible's outright sexist. Today we
Speaker 1: learned the truth with the one and only Shannon Breen.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Allow with Gianno Calledwell. I'm Gianno calledwell,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited for this week's show. My guest
Speaker 1: is someone who I'm a big fan of and I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen on TV Fox News Channel, Shannon Breen.
Speaker 1: Shannon has been a pillar at Fox News for years,
Speaker 1: and she currently works as an anchor in the network's
Speaker 1: chief legal correspondent. Shannon is also a New York Times
Speaker 1: bestselling author, number one in that slot multiple times over.
Speaker 1: For her latest book, The Women of the Bible Speak
Speaker 1: The Wisdom of Sixteen Women and their Lessons for Today,
Speaker 1: it rose to the New York Times bestseller list number
Speaker 1: one over and over again. Such a good read. Today,
Speaker 1: I want to discuss Shannon's latest book and examine faith
Speaker 1: more broadly. I also asked her about the Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: reliant on her former legal career and years of reporting
Speaker 1: on the nation's highest court. Plus we discussed family and
Speaker 1: get a bit into Shannon's personal life. With that, I
Speaker 1: want to welcome Shannon bringing to the show. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on Allow with Gianno Caldwell. You
Speaker 1: know it is my honor. I've been just so blown
Speaker 1: away watching you over the years and just um all
Speaker 1: the amazing things that you're doing, and I'm always cheering
Speaker 1: for you and so interesting to know. You were the
Speaker 1: first person I've ever met who worked at Fox News Channel.
Speaker 1: I think it was the Hills Most Beautiful event and
Speaker 1: you you received the honor of that year and I
Speaker 1: was able to say hello, I'm I'm interested in doing television.
Speaker 1: I think I was doing TV at that point. I
Speaker 1: think it was more on CNN as a as a guest.
Speaker 1: But it was so nice of you to give me
Speaker 1: your your email address and correspond with me, and here
Speaker 1: we are now colleagues at the same network. I love it.
Speaker 1: And that's such a cheeseball Washington thing that we would
Speaker 1: be at a party for the Hills most people, but
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm glad that that was an opportunity
Speaker 1: to meet you, if nothing else, exactly exactly so I
Speaker 1: want to get into something that I think Um has
Speaker 1: certainly woken people up to women in the Bible today.
Speaker 1: I think especially in our day and age with the
Speaker 1: culture that we see the cultural wars, and you see
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that have been moving towards darkness.
Speaker 1: If I'm being honest with you, they're not necessarily utilizing
Speaker 1: the Bible as a tool to get through those very
Speaker 1: difficult times. In some cases, they're shunning the Bible in
Speaker 1: any religious teachings. And you came out with a bomb
Speaker 1: selling a book called Women of the Bible Speak, which
Speaker 1: New York Times best Selling Author, number one best selling
Speaker 1: author week after week, and that was earlier this year.
Speaker 1: And the book is titled The Women of the Bible Speak,
Speaker 1: The Wisdom of the Sixteen Women in Lessons for Today.
Speaker 1: So what made you decide to write this book? It's
Speaker 1: just it's it's such an interesting term for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it it actually Fox came to me because you know,
Speaker 1: they were putting out their own book label book series,
Speaker 1: three different books, and they said, listen, we're thinking about
Speaker 1: doing something in this space with women and religion. We
Speaker 1: know you're very open about your faith. Is this something
Speaker 1: you'd be interested in and I was like, man, what
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I was so excited, and we dove in
Speaker 1: and decided to put together these women in pairs. We
Speaker 1: kind of look at the parallels in their lives and
Speaker 1: the lessons we learned through them, and the more that
Speaker 1: I studied because I grew up in the church and
Speaker 1: in faith, and knowing these stories, I learned so so
Speaker 1: much about these women. And I was writing this during
Speaker 1: last year, which was probably the worst year for just
Speaker 1: about anybody that they can remember, with fear and anxiety
Speaker 1: and loss and pain and worry and financial trouble and
Speaker 1: just such a stew of terrible things. And it really
Speaker 1: was such a blessing to me, this book of being
Speaker 1: inspired remembering these stories, reading the Bible in a deeper way,
Speaker 1: and thinking, you know, that's working through things all the time,
Speaker 1: whether we can see it or not. And I saw
Speaker 1: that in these women's stories, and I'm just amazed that
Speaker 1: it's really connected with people. And I love that that.
Speaker 1: I think for some people, um, you know, the toughest
Speaker 1: times like the year of the pandemic and of social
Speaker 1: unrest and a and of open wounds and of things
Speaker 1: that we've got to have tough conversations. I think all
Speaker 1: of those things made a lot of people more open
Speaker 1: to talking about faith, into finding something bigger than ourselves
Speaker 1: that we can root in. And you know, the book
Speaker 1: they came to me, but it turned out to be
Speaker 1: such a blessing to me and writing it. Now, were
Speaker 1: you surprise how popular and successful it's been? Oh? Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when you write a book, you
Speaker 1: don't ever want to get expectations about what it's gonna do.
Speaker 1: And for this, because it was this message that's so
Speaker 1: faith based. You know, I just prayed over the book
Speaker 1: when it was being written and getting ready. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: God just helped this to be a encouragement to people,
Speaker 1: help them to find you if they're looking for you,
Speaker 1: if they know you, may they be encouraged and just
Speaker 1: inspired by these women to see that you have purpose
Speaker 1: in everything and that people great and small. And you
Speaker 1: know in this book I joke about it, but it's true.
Speaker 1: We've got a queen, we've got a murderer, we've got
Speaker 1: a prostitute. I mean, all of these different people, some
Speaker 1: women who made really bad decisions. But God redeemed it
Speaker 1: and he can use our messes. Uh, he can reach
Speaker 1: to us wherever we are. We don't have to be
Speaker 1: Queen Esther. We can be somebody who you know is
Speaker 1: no name, is just living our lives, is just trying
Speaker 1: to be faithful, and he can work through all different circumstances.
Speaker 1: So I just came at the book from such a
Speaker 1: spiritual place that I wasn't thinking about how it would
Speaker 1: do or trying to tell myself, don't look at those
Speaker 1: worldly measures of this. So to see it do so well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: very surprising. Yeah. Absolutely. Let me ask you this for
Speaker 1: our listeners, especially for those who may not be familiar
Speaker 1: with the work, can you explain for those who may
Speaker 1: not even be familiar with the Bible in and of itself,
Speaker 1: can you really give us the crooks of the book
Speaker 1: book and why it was so so important today. I
Speaker 1: know you talked about the pandemic. I agree with that,
Speaker 1: but even beyond that, because the country is opening and up.
Speaker 1: L A just opened up. I think it was yesterday,
Speaker 1: June June. It just opened up. So you're seeing all
Speaker 1: across the country and now people are kind of out
Speaker 1: of the pandemic in some respects, and now we need
Speaker 1: to really get those folks who might have said you know,
Speaker 1: I'm out of this now. I don't need to think
Speaker 1: about faith. I don't need to think about God. I
Speaker 1: don't need to think about the Bible because my life
Speaker 1: is going back to how it used to be. This
Speaker 1: book is going to be important for years to come.
Speaker 1: Can you can you just dig right in and and
Speaker 1: talk to us, talk us through the book. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: what I love about the book is that the more
Speaker 1: I looked at these stories, I thought, gosh, they're timeless,
Speaker 1: because these are women who deal with family squabbles and
Speaker 1: jealousy and fighting, and infertility and widowhood and longing for
Speaker 1: something and praying for years and hoping for something to
Speaker 1: come true, chronic illnesses, financial ruin. I mean, these are
Speaker 1: all things that over time we're all going to experience
Speaker 1: in one way or another, or the people that we
Speaker 1: love or our families are gonna walk through these valleys.
Speaker 1: So I was just struck by the fact that these
Speaker 1: stories across time translate to today. I mean, there's still
Speaker 1: very problems and beyond um. But like I said, to
Speaker 1: see how God worked and sometimes these women we did
Speaker 1: years or decades a lifetime to see His promises come
Speaker 1: true for them. I think we've all been in seasons
Speaker 1: of uncertainty or of waiting, or of struggle, whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, relational, financial, physical, spiritual, whatever it is. Those
Speaker 1: stories just give us encouragement. They challenge us, and they
Speaker 1: give us tools, I think, and point us in the
Speaker 1: right direction to say, you know, have faith, continue to
Speaker 1: seek God. He hears you, he hears your prayers. They
Speaker 1: don't have to be fancy. You don't have to be
Speaker 1: a theologian or have gone to seminary. I mean sometimes
Speaker 1: it's the simplest things. There have been times in my
Speaker 1: life where I've been in a really dark place and
Speaker 1: all I could say was God, please help me, God,
Speaker 1: Please help me. I mean, not not anything fancier than that,
Speaker 1: or knowing every in and out of my faith or
Speaker 1: of doctrine, but just knowing that God is there and
Speaker 1: he's listening. A man now, you know, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: one of the first woman of the Bible that everyone,
Speaker 1: uh it seemingly talks about is the story of Adam
Speaker 1: and Eve and the eating of the apple from the tree.
Speaker 1: Did you dig in there? You know what's so funny
Speaker 1: is we had to cull it down at some point
Speaker 1: because there were so many stories. Eve did not make
Speaker 1: the cuts, sadly, but maybe there'll be women of the
Speaker 1: Bible speak too, and then we'll get even there. I mean,
Speaker 1: she is the mother of all humanity and all that
Speaker 1: we know, and God's earliest, you know, human creation, She
Speaker 1: and Adam. But we had this process of going through
Speaker 1: and saying, gosh, what do we include? What do we
Speaker 1: cut out? Because all of these stories are important and fascinating.
Speaker 1: We don't have to add anything to them, by the way,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many twists and turns and drama
Speaker 1: um with each of these stories that they're all kind
Speaker 1: of you know, Hollywood movies in their own right. So
Speaker 1: we don't talk too much about Eve in in this
Speaker 1: um study. She's not one of our deep dive studies
Speaker 1: in this particular book. But we do include a lot
Speaker 1: of the Old Testament, a lot of the New Testament.
Speaker 1: And honestly, there were so many women after we did
Speaker 1: the nine chapters pairing them together that I said, listen,
Speaker 1: excuse me, eight chapters. I said, there are all these
Speaker 1: other women that we don't some of them we don't
Speaker 1: even know their names, but their stories are important. They're
Speaker 1: included in the Bible, and they show the interaction with
Speaker 1: Christ and how he didn't judge, he accepted and loved them.
Speaker 1: He would and whatever their circumstances, you know, say to them,
Speaker 1: go and send no more. But he didn't ever be
Speaker 1: raped or belittle them. I mean he went to these
Speaker 1: women who were outcasts from society, who were not accepted
Speaker 1: by the religious elites or the elites of the day.
Speaker 1: And so he went to people where they were modest,
Speaker 1: humble people that needed his help. And so we did
Speaker 1: a whole other chapter that we added on the end
Speaker 1: about Christ's interaction with another eight women. So it was
Speaker 1: really hard to cut. In the end, I ended up
Speaker 1: adding instead of cutting. But I think there are plenty
Speaker 1: more women there for hopefully more books down the line.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Fox News anchor Shannon Bring. We've got
Speaker 1: much more with her right after a quick break. You
Speaker 1: did your study and your research, and for some people
Speaker 1: the Bible can be confusing to them. You talk about
Speaker 1: the distinctions between the Greek and the Hebrew and how
Speaker 1: it was transliterated. As an example at second Timothy one
Speaker 1: and seven. For God have not given us a speed
Speaker 1: of fear, but of power of love in the sour mind,
Speaker 1: but yet it says you have to fear God. And
Speaker 1: you know, I know from my study that that that
Speaker 1: fear is reverence respect versus be afraid of How did
Speaker 1: you deal with those different translations to really pull out
Speaker 1: the true contextual meaning behind the words in the Bible?
Speaker 1: As you you did your study and research here. You
Speaker 1: know what helped me so much is that, UM, I
Speaker 1: had a basic familiarity with these stories and with these scriptures.
Speaker 1: But I had a couple of world class theologians who
Speaker 1: actually have been to seminary and know the Greek and
Speaker 1: the he run all those things. A couple of folks
Speaker 1: who work at a First Baptist Dallas, and Pastor Jeffers
Speaker 1: is a Fox News contributor, UM, and our viewers and
Speaker 1: listeners will know him well. And I reached out to
Speaker 1: these folks in his church. He connected me with them
Speaker 1: because I would have these really deep questions, like you said,
Speaker 1: trying to get to the meanings behind the words, or
Speaker 1: what were the customs of the day, what were women
Speaker 1: allowed to do not to do? Why was this woman's
Speaker 1: circumstance unusual or was it common? UM, so honestly, being
Speaker 1: able to lean on these super educated UM seminarians and
Speaker 1: to say to them, give me a fuller understanding here.
Speaker 1: Even though I knew these stories, they brought them to
Speaker 1: life in such a different way for me. And we
Speaker 1: talked through different translations, and sometimes we would say, even
Speaker 1: the scholars don't agree on a particular point, so let's
Speaker 1: flash out what we know. Let's not add or speculate,
Speaker 1: but but let's say what experts have told us here
Speaker 1: about these women. And I think it leaves a lot
Speaker 1: of room for additional study. You know, every chapter we
Speaker 1: end with study questions, and I love that because when
Speaker 1: I read a book, I love study questions that then,
Speaker 1: you know, give you the task of, you know, digging
Speaker 1: into the scriptures more praying that they will personally be
Speaker 1: more understandable, more enlightened for you. Um. And I like
Speaker 1: when people do it as a group, to have a
Speaker 1: number of women who have said to me, we're doing
Speaker 1: this as a church Bible study, because I always feel
Speaker 1: like in conversation with other people studying the same scriptures,
Speaker 1: you're going to get different perspectives and different ideas. So
Speaker 1: I was very blessed to have those experts to lean on.
Speaker 1: And I hope it's just sort of a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for people that they'll be encouraged to do their
Speaker 1: own study as well. Mmm. No, I love that. Now,
Speaker 1: out of all the women in the Bible you wrote about,
Speaker 1: from Queen Esther to Mary Magdalene, is there anyone you
Speaker 1: really identify with or found especially inspiring? You know, I've
Speaker 1: always loved this story about the woman, and she's in
Speaker 1: several gospels, but we don't ever know her name. Um
Speaker 1: when we meet her, she'd been suffering with an issue
Speaker 1: of bleeding, is what we're talking the woman with the
Speaker 1: issue Jesus. I love her story. It is so comforting
Speaker 1: and inspiring. Um. I just she'd suffer for twelve years
Speaker 1: and we meet her. She has no money left, because
Speaker 1: we're told she spent everything she had seeing worse exactly
Speaker 1: what exactly? So think about how despondent she must have
Speaker 1: been at that point. She's she's penniless. Now she has
Speaker 1: no cure, she's only getting physically worse. But she hears
Speaker 1: about Jesus, this guy who's going around performing miracles, and
Speaker 1: some people say as the son of God. And so
Speaker 1: she's like, I believe that this guy is who he
Speaker 1: says he is, and I am just gonna go touch
Speaker 1: the hem of his garment. That's going to be enough
Speaker 1: to heal me. So what I found out in writing
Speaker 1: the book and studying is that she would have probably
Speaker 1: been considered unclean in those days because of this illness
Speaker 1: and this bleeding, meaning shouldn't have been around crowds, not
Speaker 1: been in the temple, not been in the marketplace, I mean,
Speaker 1: very isolated in her home. Probably is a lot of
Speaker 1: folks felt this last year over the pandemic um, you know,
Speaker 1: very lonely at times. But she goes and finds jesus
Speaker 1: Us and she does that. She touches the garment, the
Speaker 1: hem of his garment, and all the gospels tell us
Speaker 1: she was immediately healed. She knew it, and Jesus knew
Speaker 1: because he's got that something had happened. And he turns
Speaker 1: around and one of the gospel says, who touched me?
Speaker 1: And I almost can hear the disciples laughing, sort of
Speaker 1: like the responses, everyone's touching you. You're in a crowd
Speaker 1: all the time. Everybody wants a piece of you right now.
Speaker 1: So he clearly knows who it is, and we're told
Speaker 1: she was. She fell down in front of him, trembling,
Speaker 1: and afraid to confess the whole thing. And he says
Speaker 1: to her, and all the accounts, the very first thing
Speaker 1: he says is daughter. He doesn't say, how dare you?
Speaker 1: You're unclean, you shouldn't even be in this crowd. How
Speaker 1: dare you touch me? This esteemed rabbi, the son of God,
Speaker 1: he didn't see any of that. So he telegraphs his
Speaker 1: acceptance directly to her, but also to everybody who's watching,
Speaker 1: that she did the right thing. And he says to her,
Speaker 1: your faith made you whole, and he sends her on
Speaker 1: her way. And I think, what joy for not only
Speaker 1: this one woman, but for her to then be able
Speaker 1: to go tell her story all these pople who have
Speaker 1: known her for twelve years with this illness, every doctor
Speaker 1: that she's seen, everyone in her community, to say, oh,
Speaker 1: my goodness, this person healed her. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: the purpose of a lot of the miracles, was to
Speaker 1: show that Christ was divine, and so um. I love
Speaker 1: that he was so kind to her and just telegraphed
Speaker 1: complete acceptance of her, even though what she did would
Speaker 1: have broken the norms of the day. Absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: really appreciate the part where it says, as she went
Speaker 1: she was healed. So just to hear that compliment from
Speaker 1: Jesus to say, your faith has made you healed, because
Speaker 1: it was literally the touching of his garment following instruction
Speaker 1: that she believed to touch him. Her faith activated when
Speaker 1: she touched his role and I thought that was so
Speaker 1: so cool, and I think something that people can learn
Speaker 1: from today. And when you just believe God and you
Speaker 1: just follow his instructions, you'll get what you're requesting. And
Speaker 1: the thing is, his timing may not be ours, his
Speaker 1: answer may not be ours, but he's listening and he
Speaker 1: is going to answer ours us and a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's better than anything we could have dreamed up. Um.
Speaker 1: I've seen that in my own life, and I saw
Speaker 1: that in so many of these stories of these women
Speaker 1: that we include in the book. And you know, my
Speaker 1: hope is that people who maybe are intimidated by the
Speaker 1: Bible aren't people of faith, they'll still be inspired by
Speaker 1: these women and what they went through and to see
Speaker 1: their resilience and um, how they stood up with real
Speaker 1: courage in times of challenge and at the threat of
Speaker 1: their own lives in some of these cases. Um. But
Speaker 1: the fact is that some of them prayed and waited
Speaker 1: for years and decades, like I said, to see the answers,
Speaker 1: and they came about in a different way than these
Speaker 1: women would have thought, but an even better way. And
Speaker 1: we can trust that God is going to be always
Speaker 1: working for our good. Absolutely. Now, you know, men are
Speaker 1: usually the ones that are referenced in the Bibles of
Speaker 1: the scripture, mostly outside of Mary the Mother of Jesus
Speaker 1: or Eve as A as another example. And you think
Speaker 1: about the women of the Bible, is this something that
Speaker 1: men sometimes would think? Maybe I shouldn't get it. It's
Speaker 1: talking about the women of the Bibe. What what can
Speaker 1: I get from this? Have you had any experiences with
Speaker 1: that from either men or people from other faiths beyond
Speaker 1: jud Joe des Um and Christianity or atheists or you know, nonbelievers,
Speaker 1: and say, why would I want to read this book? This?
Speaker 1: This won't apply to me? Right? And let me start
Speaker 1: with the men, because the thing is they'll have familiarity
Speaker 1: with a lot of these stories because in many of
Speaker 1: these stories you've heard before, but probably primarily from the
Speaker 1: male point of view, like Abraham and Sarah, the foundation
Speaker 1: of all the world's you know, most prominent, biggest faiths
Speaker 1: out there come through this family. But we've heard about
Speaker 1: Abraham a lot, and we do hear about Sarah. But
Speaker 1: in my book, I tell the story from Sarah's perspective.
Speaker 1: So you're getting, um, just another angle on the same
Speaker 1: story you've probably heard or studied if you are a
Speaker 1: person of faith. I've had men say to me, I'm
Speaker 1: buying this from my daughter's we're going to read it together,
Speaker 1: or I bought it from my wife, um, and she's
Speaker 1: sharing it with me and now we're going through it together.
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's john or specific at all.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I do think even if you're
Speaker 1: not a person of faith, um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: there's so much there. The principles are the same, about
Speaker 1: perseverance and about community and about finding strength in really
Speaker 1: difficult circumstances. So I've had a couple of Jewish people
Speaker 1: reach out to me to say, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: maybe this would only be from the perspective of the
Speaker 1: New Testament, because you're a Christian, you're very open about
Speaker 1: your faith. But to me, as a Christian, the Old
Speaker 1: Testament is the foundation of my faith. And so I've
Speaker 1: had Jewish believers say to me. I love that you
Speaker 1: included our stories and that Queen Nest and others that
Speaker 1: are so important to us from our faith traditions, from
Speaker 1: the Old Testament, or at least half of your book.
Speaker 1: So I think there's something for everybody if you're just
Speaker 1: looking for something positive and encouraging. We need to pause
Speaker 1: here for a quick break, but we'll be back straightly.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question in your in your life,
Speaker 1: because you've had many examples of how your faith has
Speaker 1: worked for you. You're clearly one of the most sought
Speaker 1: after individuals, and news media and the network has been
Speaker 1: promoting you. You've done a great job. You you're the
Speaker 1: chief legal correspondent if I'm correct, and I believe that
Speaker 1: you are. You work on Supreme Court issues regularly and
Speaker 1: consistently when the court is open. Have you noticed any
Speaker 1: shift in terms of legally of people's rights is in
Speaker 1: terms of their religious faiths being usurped and they have
Speaker 1: to take cases to the Supreme Court. I'm sure that
Speaker 1: happens all the time, but do you see more of
Speaker 1: that occurring now in this day and age. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: certainly did a lot during the toughest lockdowns during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: There were several churches and you know, synagogues and different
Speaker 1: faiths that actually joined together to go to the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court and say, um, you know, why can people fly
Speaker 1: around in planes or go to Costco or go to
Speaker 1: liquor stores or pet stores, but they can't go to church.
Speaker 1: And so I mean, we saw cases out of New
Speaker 1: York and California, all over the country that ended up
Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court with the justices basically saying, listen,
Speaker 1: there can be times of enormous distress and emergency in
Speaker 1: our country, but you can't suspend the Constitution forever. And
Speaker 1: you can't treat churches differently than you do non religious
Speaker 1: organizations if you can say, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: case out of California where these churches are saying, listen,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna say strip clubs can be open during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, we are not going to close our doors.
Speaker 1: So you know, the Supreme Court came down in favor
Speaker 1: of a number of these religious groups saying you've got
Speaker 1: to work out the accommodations. If casinos and other places
Speaker 1: are open, you have to find a way that you're
Speaker 1: not discriminating against worship places, houses, of faith UH in
Speaker 1: the same way. So we saw a lot of that
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. And we you know, there's a case
Speaker 1: pending that we're waiting right now for at the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court too, which sets up something that's a very modern
Speaker 1: conversation about how you balance religious faith and freedom in
Speaker 1: this country UM against the rights of lgbt Q and
Speaker 1: their community and anti discrimination statutes. And in this one
Speaker 1: case deals with Catholic Charities groups and Piladelphia who who
Speaker 1: UM work as a foster care placement system for children
Speaker 1: in need, and UM, because they are a Catholic church
Speaker 1: based group, they don't actively place children with same sex couples.
Speaker 1: So there's a lawsuit over that now pending UM and
Speaker 1: I know that for the case, and the record shows
Speaker 1: there's never been a same sex couple who's gone to
Speaker 1: Catholic Charities to try to be part of the foster
Speaker 1: program and been turned away. So the case is based
Speaker 1: on something that hasn't actually happened yet. But I think
Speaker 1: that's going to be one of those very tricky places
Speaker 1: where the Court's going to try to find this balance
Speaker 1: of respecting the rights of everyone involved. Can you find
Speaker 1: that balance? UM, And we'll get that case in a
Speaker 1: number of days, and so, um, yeah, I think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of important conversations on that space that
Speaker 1: are happening in the legal world. Now. We've seen in
Speaker 1: recent years that each nominee, each new nominee to the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, becomes a political circus. We saw that with
Speaker 1: Brett common all Amy Coney Barrett, which they tried to
Speaker 1: really really derail her nomination as well as Brett. Why
Speaker 1: does the Supreme Court become such a politically expulsive, explosive
Speaker 1: point of contention. Is it healthy for the republic I
Speaker 1: think it's tricky because the justices themselves don't want to
Speaker 1: be viewed as partisan. They know that either Republican or
Speaker 1: a Democrat president nominated them, but they very much want
Speaker 1: to be seen be seen as untethered from that. They
Speaker 1: have no obligations, they make no promises to any president
Speaker 1: who interviews them or considers them for nomination, and so
Speaker 1: you see them across the ideological spectrum. I think it's
Speaker 1: healthy to have Justices, all nine of them across the board,
Speaker 1: different ones now speaking up and saying, um, you know,
Speaker 1: Justice Prior, who's viewed as a part of the liberal wing,
Speaker 1: he comes from a Democratic nomination President Clinton to say,
Speaker 1: this court is not political. We do not want to
Speaker 1: be viewed that way. We for the Chief Justice John Roberts,
Speaker 1: obviously a Republican nominee, say the same thing. We as
Speaker 1: the court or above that separate from that and we
Speaker 1: don't operate that way. They've, you know, many of them
Speaker 1: have said things that have indicated they're not happy about
Speaker 1: this talk of packing the court by Democrats and progressives
Speaker 1: who are really pushing that. So when you have even
Speaker 1: Stephen Bryer coming out as a Democratic, democratically nominated nominee
Speaker 1: who votes primarily with the liberal wing, to say, stop
Speaker 1: talking about packing the court. You're undermining the institution and
Speaker 1: making it look political, where we make every effort to
Speaker 1: not be political. And I think they genuinely do that,
Speaker 1: but I think because they're the highest court in the land,
Speaker 1: there's so much at stake for every seat that changes,
Speaker 1: and so right now they're just like we saw with
Speaker 1: Justice Ginsburg, we're seeing a number of people step up
Speaker 1: on the left and right these articles and give these
Speaker 1: interviews saying it's time for Justice Prior to go. And
Speaker 1: my experience has been that the more that happens with
Speaker 1: the Justice, the more likely they dig their heels in
Speaker 1: and they don't want to leave. So it's really tricky.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things we watched for
Speaker 1: is I'm now coming to the end of the term
Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court, which ends the end of June.
Speaker 1: We always watch for those retirement announcements, and there are
Speaker 1: always rumors, but we haven't heard anything concrete from Justice Bryan,
Speaker 1: and I suspect the more of the left calls for
Speaker 1: him to go, the longer he's going to stay. Yeah, unlikely. Now,
Speaker 1: what do you think about Mitch McConnell's latest statement saying
Speaker 1: that if Republicans take over the Senate and he becomes
Speaker 1: the majority leader again, he's not going to allow any
Speaker 1: Joe Biden nominees to get a hearing. And that's clearly
Speaker 1: if someone were to retire at this point. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: says in election year four, if that happens. Now, he'll
Speaker 1: say to you that that is consistent with what he
Speaker 1: did with the open seat of Justice Scalia when there
Speaker 1: was an election coming and the Senate was in a
Speaker 1: different political party's hands than the White House. He says,
Speaker 1: what's consistent is to wait for the election and let
Speaker 1: the voters tell you who they want to fill that seat.
Speaker 1: So it's really wonky, is very nuanced, but he says
Speaker 1: that's been his consistent argument the whole time. And listen,
Speaker 1: he and President Trump. There lasting legacy, I think will
Speaker 1: be the enormous number of federal judges they got seated
Speaker 1: to the bench during President Trump's year or his term
Speaker 1: that he absolutely so. Um, that is what Mitch McConnell
Speaker 1: is about. That's what President drump was about, was getting
Speaker 1: those seats filled. So listen, I think it's tricky Democrats
Speaker 1: are looking ahead to next year and knowing that you know,
Speaker 1: historically it's not a good year for the party whose
Speaker 1: president holds the White House. So I think that the
Speaker 1: House is very much in play. I think the Senate
Speaker 1: less so. But again, um, you know, looking ahead too,
Speaker 1: who knows what the political landscape is gonna be. But
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell says this statement he made this week is
Speaker 1: consistent with what he did. I wanna I want to
Speaker 1: close out our interview by asking a couple of questions
Speaker 1: about you beyond Fox News and your best selling book.
Speaker 1: You've spoken before about your eye condition that you may
Speaker 1: you had to endure extremely dry eye and how painful
Speaker 1: it was for you. You described waking up in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night and feeling like someone was literally
Speaker 1: stabbing your eyes. For our listeners who may not know,
Speaker 1: what was that experience like and what lessons, if any,
Speaker 1: that you learned from it, it was clearly the darkest
Speaker 1: part of my life. I'm very open in my first
Speaker 1: book talking about that and how when you live with
Speaker 1: chronic pain. And I'm sure a number of people listening
Speaker 1: to this know what that's like, or they have someone
Speaker 1: they love who knows what knows what's that's like. Every
Speaker 1: day you're questioning how do I get through this day?
Speaker 1: And what is the purpose? I mean, if my whole
Speaker 1: life is going to be nothing but trying to survive
Speaker 1: excruciating pain every day of my life, why should I
Speaker 1: go on living? And I was really asking myself those questions,
Speaker 1: and I went from doctor to doctor with this excruciating
Speaker 1: I pain. Finally and I had gotten to a really
Speaker 1: dark place and just kind of had a breakdown with
Speaker 1: my husband, like I can't go on like this, I
Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. And when I you know, log
Speaker 1: onto message boards for people who are suffering the way
Speaker 1: that I am with the same eye conditions. People are
Speaker 1: talking about suicide, and that doesn't sound crazy to me.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it would be a relief in some ways.
Speaker 1: And I knew in my head, even though I was
Speaker 1: exhausted and going through constant pain and emotionally exhausted, that
Speaker 1: that wasn't clear thinking. I knew that, and so leveling
Speaker 1: with my husband, having this conversation and deciding that I
Speaker 1: was going to start the hunt again for another doctor,
Speaker 1: and praying that God would lead me to somebody. Listen,
Speaker 1: if you're not gonna heal me, may not be your plan.
Speaker 1: Please just lead me to somebody that can get me
Speaker 1: through this. And the very next day I found the
Speaker 1: doctor who finally diagnosed me. And I always embarrassed him
Speaker 1: when see him. I'm like, you know, you're an answer
Speaker 1: to prayer any sort of like he laughs a little
Speaker 1: bit uncomfortably, like, okay, thanks um, But he really is um.
Speaker 1: And what he diagnosed me with was not only the
Speaker 1: dry eye that I was struggling with. And I hate
Speaker 1: this because I know millions of people around the world
Speaker 1: struggle with this, but on top of that, I had
Speaker 1: a genetic condition to my corneas that is not curable.
Speaker 1: It's manageable, but there is no cure for it. So
Speaker 1: that was a blow when he told me that. It
Speaker 1: was such a high to hear that he knew what
Speaker 1: I had finally, but you know, really difficult to hear
Speaker 1: that you're never going to be free of this. You're
Speaker 1: going to manage this the rest of your life. And
Speaker 1: with his help and God's grace, I have been able
Speaker 1: to get out of that chronic pain situation and found
Speaker 1: such relief and help were the time. I'm doing amazing
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful. So you ask about lessons, and
Speaker 1: that's such a great question because a couple of things
Speaker 1: made me way more empathetic to other people. Because I
Speaker 1: would think sometimes at the gym, when I'm on the
Speaker 1: treadmill or something and just can barely hang on, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't you know the person next to me has
Speaker 1: no idea what I'm struggling with. How do I know
Speaker 1: what they're struggling with. Maybe they are in depression, maybe
Speaker 1: they are have lost someone they love, maybe they're unemployed
Speaker 1: and terrified. I mean, you don't know what people are
Speaker 1: going through. It doesn't have to be physical it can
Speaker 1: be mental and emotional. We're all struggling with those things
Speaker 1: of the last year. So it's made me much more
Speaker 1: empathetic um to other people's pain, which is a good
Speaker 1: place to be, to be humble and to care about
Speaker 1: other people. But it also gave me great hope and
Speaker 1: deep in my faith because there came a point where
Speaker 1: after I found out that there was no cure for this,
Speaker 1: that I was in my car just sobbing, having left
Speaker 1: the doctor's office and saying, God, how can this be?
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like this guy is my answer
Speaker 1: to prayer. But what do you mean there's no cure?
Speaker 1: And as I'm thinking, I just can't do it, um,
Speaker 1: I felt him say to me, not out loud. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I've ever heard God's voice out loud,
Speaker 1: although I believe, you know, people can. For me, my
Speaker 1: experience was sort of feeling him say in my spirit,
Speaker 1: but it was very clear saying I will be with you.
Speaker 1: Those words, not I'm gonna take you out of this,
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna heal it, or it's all going to
Speaker 1: be rainbows and sunshine, but I'm going to be with you.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a truth that we can all
Speaker 1: claim whatever we're walking through that he promises us to
Speaker 1: be with us in the best and worst of it.
Speaker 1: So I would never want to relive those years, but
Speaker 1: I learned a lot and I'm thankful for what I
Speaker 1: learned through them. Wow, thank you for sharing that story.
Speaker 1: And is so and thing you mentioned your your husband Sheldon,
Speaker 1: and I see you all's marriage. You will be married.
Speaker 1: I guess it will be thirty years in a few
Speaker 1: years from now, like maybe three years now. We just
Speaker 1: we celebrated our so five years from now. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know what we always say, we are non perfect,
Speaker 1: but we're perfect for each other. And our faith is
Speaker 1: the foundation of what keeps us together. Like everyone has
Speaker 1: been married for longer than five minutes, you've had an argument,
Speaker 1: you've had ups and downs, real world struggles and real crises,
Speaker 1: um in your marriage. And so we don't ever want
Speaker 1: to act like we've got it totally together and um
Speaker 1: it's perfect to bliss for twenty five years, but we
Speaker 1: know that you can make it through tough things. And
Speaker 1: I am his number one fan and I think he's
Speaker 1: mine too. And I think if you come from a
Speaker 1: place of where you're cheering for your spouse and you
Speaker 1: want the best for them, because listen, we're all born
Speaker 1: selfish beings. I think we come out of the womb
Speaker 1: that way. And marriage really makes you fight that you
Speaker 1: have to want the other person since, um, you know,
Speaker 1: benefit before your own. And if you're constantly trying to
Speaker 1: serve and care for each other, it's going to be
Speaker 1: a beautiful circle where you're taking care of each other.
Speaker 1: And it feels like a really nice place to kind
Speaker 1: of have shelter in your own home against the rest
Speaker 1: of the world because you know you have someone who
Speaker 1: has your back and you have theirs, and that's and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing that. And as
Speaker 1: someone who's certainly looking to get married at some point
Speaker 1: in the in the future, maybe even the near future,
Speaker 1: who knows the near future, Yeah, I would love that.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's it's you've got to really beyond
Speaker 1: everything looking okay, if a person has, you know, all
Speaker 1: the things in which you desire and a mate. It's
Speaker 1: also this this instinct, this it factor that comes into
Speaker 1: play in my mind. And of course I've never been married,
Speaker 1: so I don't really really know. But my question to
Speaker 1: you is, is there do you believe that there's that
Speaker 1: one person or is it maybe one peron sin or
Speaker 1: the one person in a particular time, or is it
Speaker 1: just a one person God has created for you and
Speaker 1: there can't be any others. Yeah, that's such a good question,
Speaker 1: and I've wrestled with that because I can't imagine my
Speaker 1: life with anyone other than Sheldon. And I see how
Speaker 1: perfectly his strengths fit together with my weaknesses, and I think, Gosh,
Speaker 1: God sent him to me, for sure. But I do
Speaker 1: believe we have free will and God has all kinds
Speaker 1: of wonderful people out there created. You know, some people
Speaker 1: it's a gift of singleness in marriage is not for them,
Speaker 1: but I think for a lot of us it is.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, God can work through all
Speaker 1: of our decisions, and hopefully we seek him and really,
Speaker 1: you know, try to get good counsel when you're looking
Speaker 1: at whether this is the one for you. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I personally believe, because of the path of my life
Speaker 1: and because of what a good fit and a wonderful,
Speaker 1: amazing person shallness to me, I feel like he's my person.
Speaker 1: But I don't want people later, But I don't I
Speaker 1: don't want people to feel like, oh gosh, there's only
Speaker 1: one person to miss him, I'm never getting married, or
Speaker 1: if i'm you know, miss him, I'm going to marry
Speaker 1: the wrong person. Like, I don't know that that's the case.
Speaker 1: I just think in my case, I'm really grateful for
Speaker 1: the one person God did send into my path that
Speaker 1: I'm married. But I think there are a lot of
Speaker 1: amazing people out there. So I don't know if it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if you don't get this one, then you've done everything wrong,
Speaker 1: you know. And I've been wrestling with that question myself,
Speaker 1: and I think to your point, and I love what
Speaker 1: you said because it's what I've I've believed as well.
Speaker 1: As you have free will and it can be something
Speaker 1: that's intended to be. But for that person, maybe they're
Speaker 1: not right there at that right moment, and they have
Speaker 1: the free will, let's say no or not move on
Speaker 1: and God will place somebody else in your life. So
Speaker 1: I think that. I think that's amazing and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing that. And before we go, do you
Speaker 1: have any big projects coming up that the folks at
Speaker 1: home should know about? And where can they find you
Speaker 1: on social media and elsewhere? Well, you can find me
Speaker 1: at Shannon Bream on Facebook and Twitter and instaff. I
Speaker 1: drew the line at like TikTok, I'm like, I'm tool
Speaker 1: for that. That is not true if I'm doing that. Um,
Speaker 1: Although I have an amazing assistant, Tessa, who is young
Speaker 1: and hip and knows how to work everything. Um, but
Speaker 1: I stick to those three pretty much. I'm pretty prolific
Speaker 1: on Twitter with news. Um. We I've got something out
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation now which is called Hero Dogs, which
Speaker 1: is a lot of fun. It's amazing stories about dogs
Speaker 1: that go into battle or their police dogs or you know,
Speaker 1: the dogs that went on the raid for Bin Laden.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've got amazing stories where you see them
Speaker 1: with their handlers and the military men and women that
Speaker 1: they work with, or the police officers they work with,
Speaker 1: or the d e A Drug officers, and that's just
Speaker 1: kind of a feel good um story. Those are on
Speaker 1: Fox Nation. They've just been released now this you know,
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks are going to be crazy
Speaker 1: covering the Supreme Court, and I'm feeling it for Bret
Speaker 1: and Martha and a lot of other people the summer
Speaker 1: as it gets busy, and of course at midnight we're
Speaker 1: there for Fox News at nights on the East Coast
Speaker 1: nine o'clock Pacific and hopefully we'll see you there with
Speaker 1: us soon. I hope so too. Thank you, Shannon Brain
Speaker 1: for sharing with us today. We really appreciate your valuable
Speaker 1: insight my pleasure. Thanks for having me. I want to
Speaker 1: thank Shannon Bring again for a great interview. If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate
Speaker 1: us with five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have
Speaker 1: any questions for me, please email me at out loud
Speaker 1: at Ginger Street sixt dot com and I'll try to
Speaker 1: answer them in our future episodes. And please sign up
Speaker 1: for my monthly newsletter at Ginger Street sixtees dot com
Speaker 1: slash out loud. You can also follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and parlor at Gianto Caldwell. And if you're interested in
Speaker 1: learning more about my story, please pick up a copy
Speaker 1: of my best selling book title Taken for Granted, How
Speaker 1: Conservatism Can Win Back to the the Americans The Liberalism Failed
Speaker 1: Special Thanks to our producer John Cassio, Researcher and Klingman,
Speaker 1: and executive producers Debbie Myers and Speaker New ging Wig,
Speaker 1: part of the Ginglish three sixty network