1 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: We had a lot of sheep, and lambing season was 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: always hectic and fun. We got to sleep in the 3 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: barn and we wake up every two hours and go 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: check to see if any new lambs were born, and 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: some of the lambs would need help. And it's so 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: nuts how the mom's instincts are. We had some lambs 7 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: that were so weak that they would literally almost discard it, 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: like not want to feed it. 9 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: Did you have a lamb that was your favorite. 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was so tiny. I mean, gosh, maybe two pounds. 11 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: She was discarded by her at first. She wouldn't even 12 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: suck from the bottle, just looked sickly looking. The mom 13 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: would not pay any attention to her, and I think 14 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody had given up on her. Nobody thought 15 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: I should name her. Everyone thought she was going to die. 16 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: And there was something in me that was like, no, 17 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: she is going to live, and I'm going to be 18 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: the one to help her live her life. I fought 19 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 1: so much for this little you. I brought her home 20 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: and there was like a cardboard box that I put 21 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: like tons of blankets in and kept warming her up 22 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: and snuggling her, feeding her. She started thriving. I named 23 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: her Endurance. I was so proud of her that she 24 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: did it, and couldn't think of a better name that 25 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: she endured through it all, such a beautiful lamb. She 26 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: finally was big enough to then go back out to 27 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: pasture and live with the other sheep, and she was 28 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: doing great out there. Every time she saw me, she'd 29 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: come running. 30 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: Did you feel like she kind of loved you the 31 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: most because you had. 32 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: Oh for sure? Yeah? Yeah, I definitely felt like I 33 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: was her favorite. One day I was done school from 34 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: the morning. I went around lunchtime to check on the sheet. 35 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: I rode my bike up there and I walked to 36 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: the back of the pasture and there was like a 37 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: barn and then a gate. It was like this orangish 38 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: rusty gate. I think somebody was supposed to like tie 39 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: the gate. Somehow it had gotten loose, and I saw 40 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: the gate fall in, and of all the sheep for 41 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: it to land on, it landed on Endurance, right on 42 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: her stomach, and it was all sunken in and killed her. 43 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: I started crying, screaming, yelling for my dad, and I 44 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: remember just screaming and Durns is dead, and Durns is dead. 45 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: A gate fell on her. I mean, I was sobbing. 46 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: I had never experienced a loss like this before, Like 47 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: she was like my child. We dug a hole by 48 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: a tree and we buried her. I remember thinking how 49 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: unfair it was that, like, out of all the sheep, 50 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: that she had to be the one. I just felt 51 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: it cruel that she was the one that had to 52 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: be taken. 53 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: From Rocco, Punch and dieheard podcasts This is the Turning 54 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: River Road, I America Lance and I'm Alan Lance Lesser, 55 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: Part three, The Maidens. So the day that he made 56 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: some kind of announcement about first borns, do you recall 57 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: where you were? 58 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: It was in the chapel at the Shepherd's camp. 59 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: The day felt like any other. All one hundred and 60 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: fifty members of River Road gathered at the Apple for fellowship. 61 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: Lindsay remembers the light streaming in as Victor delivered his sermon, 62 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: But some details feel fuzzy now. 63 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: Maybe I wasn't even really paying attention, you know, because 64 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: I was still a thirteen year old kid. 65 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're maybe even daydreaming, zoning. 66 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I tried to look forward to my notes. 67 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: I can't find the teaching. But he was talking about firstborns, 68 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: and in the Old Testament, you know, firstborn's being a 69 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: sacrifice to God. 70 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: Victor started listing several names of girls in the room, 71 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: all first born and all daughters of leadership. Some of 72 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 2: them girls Lindsay looked up to. Then Lindsay heard it 73 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 2: her name, he was talking to her. By the end, 74 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: there were ten names of girls aged twelve to twenty three. 75 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 2: Victor explained that these ten had a new role to play. 76 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: They would leave their families in the satellite properties. They 77 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: would live together in the four plex near Victor, at 78 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: the heart the Shepherd's Camp. 79 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: It was just like, do you want to, you know, 80 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: help serve in the church and you know, dedicate your 81 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: life to serving in the church. And what a blessing 82 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: that would be, What an honor for our family that 83 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: would be. 84 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: These ten girls would be kind of like nuns. They'd 85 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: live together like sisters. Eventually he would call them by 86 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: a special name, the name the whole camp would adopt 87 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: for them. They would be known as the Maidens. 88 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: I thought it would be kind of like a long 89 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: sleepaway camp, which I one time I was allowed to 90 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: go to a sleep away camp for like a weekend, 91 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: and I remember it was so much fun. Like we'd 92 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: be out at night knocking on like the boys cabins 93 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: and then running back to ours, and they had like 94 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: a luau one night for like the last night. I 95 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: think it was so I not that we'd be knocking 96 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: on boys cabins at the camp, but I thought it 97 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: was going to be fun. I don't think anyone told 98 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: me like the severity of what was going to happen. 99 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: Lindsay packed a bag just toiletries a few outfits. She 100 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: couldn't wait till about her summer camp dreams. Not only 101 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: would she be bunking with the cool girls, but also 102 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: with her best friend Jessana Jess for short, who had 103 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: been selected to Lindsay and Jess were the youngest of 104 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: the girls handpicked by Victor, twelve and thirteen years old. 105 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: Lindsay had liked Jess from the moment she met her, 106 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: back when she first visited Minnesota. Jess had a huge 107 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: smile and a huge laugh and fiery red hair. 108 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: When she would smile, it was like all her teeth 109 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: would show. You know those people that just have that 110 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: like almost like Julia Roberts, you know that like just 111 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: million dollar, gorgeous smile. She came off as just like 112 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: a tough kid. She wasn't going to be messed with. 113 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it was this calm, sweet It was 114 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: more this like fierce fun storm that you wanted to 115 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: jump in and be a part of and just get 116 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: swept up in the swirl of it all. 117 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: Everyone in River Road Fellowship, even the kids, were required 118 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: to pitch in to keep the community functioning. Hard work 119 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: was a given, and with Jess it was fun. Bailing 120 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: hay was fun. 121 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: It was just the square bal so you'd pick it 122 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: up out of the field and throw it onto the truck. 123 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: And I loved that kind of stuff. I think even now, 124 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: hard work like that is just in my blood. I 125 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: love doing the physical, hard labor. And I remember just 126 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: and I just like laughing and not really goofing off 127 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: because we were taking it seriously. You were hot and sweaty, 128 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: and the straw and the hay like was just sticking 129 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: to you everywhere. But it was just one of those fun, 130 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: hard days together. She was like the ying to my 131 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: Yang at that time, because I was kind of the 132 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: same way, always looking for the next fun thing to do, 133 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: the imaginative you know what can we create, and are 134 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: we living on a homestead or are we pirates in a desert? 135 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: You know, like just like all that stuff. So I 136 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: don't even know if pirates in a desert? What was that? 137 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: But you know what I mean. 138 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, Lindsay's mind went wild with excitement anytime she thought 139 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: about bunking with Jess all summer. But what they didn't 140 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: know was that for maidens, make believe wasn't allowed. They 141 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: were there for another purpose, not to play. 142 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: I do remember a couple days before my parents dropped 143 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: me off, my dad being more sad than my mom. 144 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: I think she probably was a little sad, but I 145 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: think she was more excited for me. But I remember 146 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: my dad being so sad and I just didn't get it. 147 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: I was like, Dad, like I don't understand why you're 148 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: so sad. And I remember them asking me like are 149 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: you sure this is what you want to do? Like 150 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: are you sure you want to make this commitment? And 151 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: I was just like yeah, Like I'm going to go 152 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: spend the summer with my friends. I'll be back. It's 153 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: really no big deal. Have you ever seen a tear bottle? 154 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: Like an alabaster tearbottle? He had it was one that 155 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: had like a top to it, and it was really 156 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: pretty colored. It was gray and purple and really swirly. 157 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: Tear bottles or tearcatchers are an ancient tradition symbols of mourning. Supposedly, 158 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: someone in grief or under pressure would collect their tears 159 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: in a bottle a way to remember their pain. Victor 160 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: and his wife had given Lindsay's dad this tear bottle. 161 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: It was connected to a Bible verse that Victor loved 162 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: to quote. They that's so in tears shall reap in joy. 163 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: Victor said that all the time he loved to talk 164 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: about the joy of tears. 165 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: My dad gave that to me before I left, and 166 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: I remember him talking about that even though he was sad, 167 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: now he would be happy for me. I was just like, okay, Dad, 168 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: like thank you. You know, I'll hold on to it. 169 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: And I did. I put it on, you know, my 170 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: portion of the dresser that I had. I don't know. 171 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: I just did not really understand what I was walking into. 172 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure they didn't know everything, you know, how terrible 173 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: it was going to get. 174 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 2: Throughout her time in River Road Fellowship, Lindsay would be 175 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: asked about her commitment. Was she willing to give herself 176 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: to God to the church at face value? Each time 177 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: she was asked, it looked like a choice she had 178 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: the freedom to make, to move forward or reject. But 179 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: each choice was also interwoven with the lessons Victor taught, 180 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: and he taught about choice often. He liked to use 181 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 2: a story from the Bible about a woman named Ruth. 182 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: From the Book of Ruth, which is in the Old Testament. 183 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: The part Victor liked best was when Ruth is a 184 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: young woman. She's struggling to survive after the death of 185 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: her husband. So one night she goes to the home 186 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 2: of a rich man named Boaz. While Boas sleeps, she 187 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: lies at the foot of his bed and takes the 188 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: blanket off his feet. When he wakes up, Boaz picks 189 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: up this blanket and covers Ruth with it. Victor explained, 190 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: covering her meant Boaz was agreeing to take her as 191 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: a wife, but also covering her spiritually, leading her, taking 192 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 2: care of her. 193 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: And then she ended up sleeping with him and then 194 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: having a son who on to be in the line 195 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. So there were these teachings of you know, 196 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: this damsel asking this godly man to cover her. 197 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: In this story, Ruth took the initiative. She asked Boaz 198 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: to cover her. She made the choice. 199 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: He talked about how Ruth came softly to Boas, how 200 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: she claved to Boas, and when you cleave to someone, 201 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: it means to join yourself. He talked about how Ruth 202 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: always stayed under subjection to Boaz, that Boaz was a 203 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: man of God, that she was faithful to him, and 204 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: that Ruth is a great example to the woman in 205 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: not being anxious and being patient. He said, Ruth is 206 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: very diligent and obedient from this time on. She lives 207 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: in a subjection. She lives in the fear of God, 208 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: and that he said that Jesus Christ is looking for 209 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: a virgin. 210 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: Lindsay wrote notes about all of this in a notebook, 211 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: diligently quoting Victor so she wouldn't forget. At thirteen. Some 212 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: of it went over her head, but some parts nestled 213 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: deep inside her. The Song of Solomon preached during Victor's 214 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: Summer of Love Ruth and Boaz. Victor's selected teachings seemed 215 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: to have one dominant theme, romantic love between a man 216 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: and a woman. Where the man is a stand in 217 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: for God. She took this teaching with her as she 218 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: moved to the shepherd's camp. One day early in the summer, 219 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: Lindsay's parents dropped her off. Two people were there to 220 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: greet her, one of the maidens and a woman named Jan. 221 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: Jan was Victor's right hand who visited Lindsay's home in Pennsylvania. 222 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: When they first met, the one with a hard looking face, 223 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: I was a. 224 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: Little standoffish, just because of the authority. You know, she 225 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: was in charge. She had been Victor's assistant all those years. 226 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: At this point, Lindsay only knew Jan peripherally from playing 227 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: with Jan's daughter or seeing her at meetings. But now 228 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: Jan would take on a new role in her life, 229 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: a role to all the maidens. 230 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: I would say she was almost placed as like the mother, 231 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: the mother over all of us. 232 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 2: If they needed something like clothes or health products, they 233 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: were told they could go to her. 234 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: I don't think I really opened up to her very much. 235 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: She always seemed a little scary to me, really, not 236 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: a warm and fuzzy person. Is almost like a pioneer woman, 237 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, just that hardness to her. 238 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: Jan would start to have a lot of control over 239 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: Lindsay's life. She and the church elders designed the maiden schedules, 240 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: assigned duties, and shaped their day to day. So on 241 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: the day of Linday's arrival, Jan took Linday's parents to 242 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: talk with Victor while one of the maidens brought Lindsay 243 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: to the Fourplex to unpack. The four Plex was a 244 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: large building with several apartment like units. Lindsay would live 245 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: there with the nine other maidens. Eventually the Fourplex became 246 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: known as Alamoth. Alamoth means maidens, and Hebrew, the maidens 247 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: themselves were called Alamoth too. In the beginning, life as 248 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: a maiden seemed to meet Linda's summer camp expectations. 249 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: I remember the first week, we had this huge almost 250 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: like a flatbed trailer, like a really big one that 251 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: you could stack hay on or whatever. We put that 252 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: out in the field and loaded up with blankets and 253 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: we all slept out under the stars there with Victor. 254 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: Mosquitoes were really bad, but then like you could just hear, 255 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, like the wind wrestling people giggling. The sky 256 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: were so clear. I was just like wow, like sleeping 257 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: on other stars. You know, my friends are here. This 258 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: is great. There were loons that lived on the lake 259 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: in the morning, like we hear the loons, it's like 260 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: anyone just echo off the lake. What a beautiful sound 261 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: that became like our bird. The maidens, it seemed like 262 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: wherever we went there were loons there. The loons were 263 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: like the maidens thing with Victor. It was just something 264 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: that always reminded us of him and us. 265 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: At the Shepherd's camp, Lindsay and the nine other maidens 266 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: got to work. Their days were full of chores and 267 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: anything to keep the camp running. They made food in 268 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: the dining hall, gardened and cleaned. As always, hard work 269 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: was expected, but gradually a starker line was drawn between 270 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 2: the outside world and Victor and his maidens. A few 271 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 2: weeks in, Victor started talking about the role of women 272 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: in the community. It started one day in the dining 273 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: hall when a ups man dropped something off. Jess, Lindsay's 274 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: friend with red hair, and another maiden turned their heads 275 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: to see who was there. Victor did not like this. 276 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: He said their eyes were for Christ. They shouldn't concern 277 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: themselves with the outside world. From that moment, don he said, 278 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: they were not allowed to look a man in the 279 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: eyes other than Victor. He called it dove's eyes, a 280 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: reference from the Song of Solomon. 281 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: So literally, if you were a man, I would have 282 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: to be talking like this to you the whole time. 283 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 284 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're it's like you have to you're 285 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: talking to me, but you have to keep your eyes 286 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 2: down a little to the side, to the side and 287 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 2: down so that you're not actually looking at the man. 288 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: Yep, and we should only look at Victor in the eyes. 289 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: How did you react to that? I thought it was 290 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: so weird. I felt so awkward, and I mean I 291 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: was going through my awkward phase. I hadn't gotten my 292 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: period yet, so I hadn't even gone through like hormones, 293 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: but I, you know, was starting to develop little buds there, 294 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: little breasts, probably my hormones were starting to take off. 295 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: And I was just in that awkward teenager stage, you know, 296 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: like thirteen, probably tripping all the time and very like 297 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: I was very outgoing as like a younger person. But 298 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: then I just kind of got gangly and I don't know, 299 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: just awkward, and so I felt so awkward even more. 300 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: I was like what how I'm like, I'm looking at 301 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: the ground as I'm talking to this person, like that 302 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: makes me feel so weird, you know, almost like so 303 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: self conscious, like, oh my gosh, if I lift my 304 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: head up a little, am I going to get in trouble? 305 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: If I accidentally look at this person in the eyes? 306 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: Am I going to get in trouble? You know? Is 307 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: Victor going to see me and he's gonna like yell 308 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: at me. Yeah. It was a very uncomfortable and awkward. 309 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: It's like enforced awkwardness. 310 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. He also did something pretty early on to where 311 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: if the maidens were singing to the church or even 312 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: to just like the people at the dining hall, instead 313 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: of looking out at them and singing, we had to 314 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: sit in a half circle and look at each other 315 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: and sing. Even though we were singing to them, we 316 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: were not allowed to look at the people we were 317 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: singing to. 318 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 2: It's really just constantly enforcing this insolarty where your world 319 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 2: is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. 320 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. I got really shy during that time. I was 321 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: a very outgoing kid, loved to perform, made people laugh. 322 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I remember getting very very shy during that time. I 323 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: remember he was calling me miss Mouseie because I was 324 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: just so quiet I felt like I had to watch 325 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: my every move. 326 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: Lindsey remembers one time she and one of the older 327 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: maidens went to the lodge. The lodge was where Victor 328 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 2: lived ever since he took off his wedding ring and 329 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: moved away from his wife and sons. The maidens were 330 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: set up to be Victor's caretakers now, and that meant 331 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: more intimate responsibilities. 332 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: And we went to rub Victor's feet, and so we 333 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: went back into his bedroom and he was sitting there 334 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: and we were rubbing his feet, and I was being 335 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: so shy, so quiet. Oh, I just didn't know how 336 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: to act around him. He made me really nervous. And 337 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: you know, I saw some of the other maidens really 338 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: show him care, and you know, you could just tell 339 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: they really loved him and wanted to help him. 340 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: While Lindsay and the other maiden rubbed his feet, Victor 341 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: told them a Bible story with a moral about showing 342 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 2: your fervor and faith. He was clearly pointing at Lindsay's shyness. 343 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: Lindsay often felt confused during conversations like this. They challenged 344 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: her instinct, and her instinct now was to crawl inside herself. 345 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: She waited and watched, afraid to be called on who 346 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,479 Speaker 2: was she meant to be? Now? The expectations felt heavy, 347 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 2: yet fuzzy. Summer was coming to an end. They were 348 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: coming up on the Feast of Tabernacles, the big celebration 349 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 2: of the season's harvest. When one day Lindsay was gardening 350 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: with jan. 351 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: I remember she had those knee pads you could wear 352 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: that she was sitting on, like around the flowers or perennials. 353 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: I was just sitting there on my knees next to her, 354 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, just digging around, just talking, and then boom. 355 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: I was talking about the visa Tabernacles coming up, and 356 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I'm really excited, you know, 357 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: to see my parents and you know, go home and 358 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: start school again. And she was like, oh, like no, Lindsay, 359 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: like you're here to stay. You're a maiden now you're 360 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: going to be staying here. And I was like wait what. 361 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, like your mom will send over all 362 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: your winter clothes and anything you'll need. You committed your life. 363 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: You're staying with the maidens. And I was like what, Like, 364 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: I'm not going home. I was like wait, like what 365 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: did I agree to? Because I don't ever remember making 366 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: a commitment like this. But I also know that I 367 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: felt too maybe scared to speak up and question it 368 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: or ask anyone about it. I did not know that 369 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: it was for life. That was a shock. 370 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Lindsay felt this immense sadness inside. But Lindsay just kept 371 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: digging on her knees next to Jan. 372 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: It was almost felt like it was too late, like 373 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: I couldn't I felt trapped. I couldn't do anything about it, 374 00:24:42,320 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, like this was my life. I remember being 375 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: like a cool night. It was dark out, and Victor 376 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: called me up to the lodge that's where he lived. 377 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: I walked in and I was still so nervous to 378 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: be I guess around him by myself. I just felt 379 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: very awkward, not really sure how to act. And I 380 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: sat down on this He had a leather couch there 381 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: that faced a fireplace and the fire was going, and 382 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: then he sat in a chair. He asked how I 383 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: liked being here, you know, and I said it was 384 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: going fine, and you know, it was like small talk. 385 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: And then he asked me if I had ever masturbated before, 386 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: and I had no idea what that we was even meant. 387 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: My mom had never had these kinds of talks with me. 388 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: I was only thirteen and pretty sheltered from a lot 389 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: of things, and he did not believe me. And I 390 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: remember I kept telling him like, I don't know what 391 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: it means, I'm telling you the truth, and he kept 392 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: thinking I was lying. He got really really mad at me. 393 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: You know, I had seen Victor get really mad at people, 394 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: spit in their faces and yell at them at meal times, 395 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: but it had never happened to me yet. And seeing 396 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: his rage like that, I didn't want to make him mad, 397 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to fix it. He slapped 398 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: me across the face and yelled at me to get 399 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: out of the lodge. I was sitting on the couch, 400 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: that leather couch. When I got up to even run out, 401 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it literally felt like band aids ripping off 402 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: of my legs because I had sweated so much on 403 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: the couch that it was sticking to the leather, and 404 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: I felt like I was just ripping band aids off 405 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: of my skin. When I ran out of there, my 406 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: tears felt like boiling water coming out of my eyes. 407 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: They were just felt so hot. And I ran down 408 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: the hill and over that bridge that connected the pond 409 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: to the lake and was running straight towards Alamoth and 410 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: it was so dark. 411 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 4: I don't know. 412 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: I remember just almost crying out to my parents, who 413 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: weren't there. Why God, why are you leaving me here? 414 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: Like I missed my mom and dad? Why can't I 415 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: go home? I just curled up on my bed and 416 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: like a ball. I don't think. I put the covers 417 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: on and just cried. It wasn't too long after, maybe 418 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: like thirty minutes, maybe a little bit more. One of 419 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: the maidens came and said that Victor was on the 420 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: phone for me. There was one phone in alum Off 421 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: in the four plex that we could use, and he 422 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: asked me to come back to the lodge. My heart 423 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: was beating out of my chest. I felt like I 424 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: could hear it, that's how loud it was. I went 425 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: back to the lodge and sat down in his hole. 426 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: His whole demeanor had changed. He started talking to me 427 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: very lovingly. He was talking about how much God loved 428 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,959 Speaker 1: me and how special I was and how God had 429 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: chosen me. And he said that one way for him 430 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: to show me how much God loved me was to 431 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: have sex with me, and that even though he would 432 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: have sex with me, I would still be able to 433 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: remain a virgin spiritually. And he referenced Jesus Christ and 434 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: how he had Mary Magdalene and the Apostle Paul, how 435 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: he had Phoebe and probably other women. And I remember 436 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: it vividly, like I it's so clear to me, Like 437 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: I remember the fire blazing and the little crackles going up. 438 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: But I think like in the moment, I was empty. 439 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: I don't know if I said maybe like two words. 440 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: Y asked if I would go back to the bedroom 441 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: with him, and it was pretty dark in there. He 442 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: had all these like windows and I think glass doors 443 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: that would lead out onto the deck. I remember laying 444 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: on the bed and I remember laying there not moving. 445 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: I didn't want to touch him. I felt like I 446 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: was a deer in headlights. I was so scared. I 447 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: didn't know what to say, what to do. I think 448 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: I was just almost standing outside on the deck watching 449 00:30:53,680 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: it happen. Physically, it was very painful. I remember he 450 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: started getting a little irritated because I wasn't being passionate 451 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: at all. But that first time was mostly just me 452 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: laying there like stiff as a board, very confused, very scared, 453 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: feeling so alone? Where are my parents? Why can't I 454 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: go home? 455 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 3: Why? Me? 456 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: And when it was over, that was pretty much it. 457 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: He sent me back to the four plex. I walked 458 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: there and I just remember going over and over again 459 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: in my mind, like why. 460 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 3: Why can't I be back at home. It definitely didn't 461 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 3: feel like God's laugh. It felt totally the opposite, and 462 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 3: I just cried myself to sleep that night and never 463 00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 3: talked about it. 464 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: Soon after that night, Victor told the maidens they had 465 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: a choice to make. They could stay and honor their 466 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: commitment as a maiden or go. Staying meant they would 467 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: remain unmarried and accept this role for the rest of 468 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 2: their lives. He told them they'd each write a letter 469 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: confirming their decision, and they would write the letter today. 470 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: I definitely thought that everyone was going to say yes. 471 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: I remember feeling like I couldn't say no. I didn't 472 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: even know if my parents would want me back because 473 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: they gave me to him. I just remember feeling almost 474 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: like I had no other options, that the only thing 475 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: to say was yes, that I would stay, and all 476 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: ten of us said yes. 477 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: Victor invited Lindsay's parents Carmen and Peggy to his lodge. 478 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 2: They sat on the same leather couch where Victor had 479 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 2: interrogated Lindsay that night. In the lodge, Victor and another 480 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: man was there an elder in the church. Lindsay watched 481 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 2: for miss Stool in the kitchen. Victor told them his 482 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: plans for Lindsay's future. He explained that Lindsay was called 483 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: to make a lifetime commitment, a vowed to remain unmarried 484 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: and serve the church. 485 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: And what an honor it was, What an honor it 486 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: was for my family. And he said that in this 487 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: it was natural and spiritual for when I turned eighteen 488 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: for Victor to take care of me sexually. 489 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: Victor explained this to her parents by claiming this was 490 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 2: reflected in the Bible. Jesus had Mary Magdalene, the Apostle, 491 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: Paul had Phoebe. He told them that these holy men 492 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 2: took care of the women who committed themselves to the men, 493 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: and that included taking care of the women sexually, as 494 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 2: though it's a kindness to the woman who follows. 495 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: And he even said something like, you know, Carmen, if 496 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: you were the one out on the road and preaching 497 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: the gospel and sharing about Christ's coming and all that stuff. 498 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: And you met Peggy and she started serving with you 499 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: in that way it would be natural for you to 500 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: take care of her sexual needs. And that made me 501 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: feel so embarrassed. I never had these kinds of talks before, 502 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: and still hadn't had my period yet. I still felt 503 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: like a little kid. 504 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 2: Did they seem to react? 505 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: I do remember seeing my dad's face and he looked 506 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: very serious. 507 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 2: After the meeting, they walked out together and Lindsay had 508 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: a quick, informal goodbye with her parents. 509 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: My dad and Victor were walking in front, and I 510 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: was walking back with my mom, and she like took 511 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: my arm and squeezed it and smiled. But I don't 512 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: even know if we exchanged words. 513 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: Feel free to be like I don't even want to 514 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 2: take the time to answer that question if you don't 515 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: feel like it, but it can't help. But wonder, like, 516 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 2: what was going on with your parents at the time 517 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: in that meeting? Were they in denial? It's hard, I 518 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 2: think for anybody to wrap their mind around. But what 519 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 2: do you do? 520 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: You have a guess as to what was going on 521 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: just from perceiving their behavior during like the Summer of 522 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: Love ninety nine, and even when we moved to the camp, 523 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: I think I shared that story of my mom wanting 524 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: the idea of putting on her wedding dress and when 525 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: we got to the camp, and yeah, I would say 526 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: that maybe my mother was possibly more accepting of it 527 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: and maybe even excited for me that I had this 528 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: kind of commitment, maybe even jealous in a way. My father, 529 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: my guess was, he was maybe more hesitant and maybe 530 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: even confused on how this made sense. But again, neither 531 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: of them did anything. They just left me there. Again, Yeah, 532 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: I think there was part of me that was like, 533 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: why aren't you guys saying anything? Like why I mean, honestly, though, 534 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: if you were a parent and this forty year old 535 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: guy was saying he was going to wait till eighteen 536 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: and I'm only thirteen. Really, I mean thinking back now, 537 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: like who would just sit there? No red flags are raised. 538 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: You wouldn't be like, I'm taking my daughter home. The 539 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: people that I trusted all my life, this man of God, 540 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: and this ordained man of God one of his right 541 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: hand men, are all saying this is good and fine. 542 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was a very confusing time, I guess 543 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: I am special being compared to Mary Magdalen with Jesus 544 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: Christ like, oh my gosh, I mean wow, I'm one 545 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: of the chosen ones. I was just like, okay, well, 546 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: this is my life now. 547 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 2: Lindsay sat on the floor in the fourplex with her 548 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 2: friend Jess. They were alone in the bedroom next to 549 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: the bunk beds. She looked at Jess, at the red 550 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: hair and face full of freckles. The usual smile wasn't there. 551 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: They asked each other, did Victor talk with your parents too? 552 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 2: Both of them said yes. To Lindsay, it meant they 553 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 2: were both acknowledging what Victor had done to them, what 554 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: he did when he called a maiden to the lodge 555 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 2: at night. 556 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: The words didn't need to be said. It was just, 557 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: is this happening to you too? 558 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: That's when one of the older maidens walked in. 559 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: She came in and heard us and was like, you 560 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 1: guys cannot be talking about this stuff. She told Victor, 561 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: And that's when we were separated for a little while. 562 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: If there were jobs, we weren't allowed to be together. 563 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to share a room together. The ton 564 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: of us knew it was happening, but nobody said anything 565 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 1: about it. 566 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 2: Decided to plan an event to present the maidens to 567 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 2: the church, a spiritual marriage ceremony in front of their parents, 568 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 2: the clergy, and the elders. The ceremony would be a 569 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 2: way to make the maidens an official fixture of the church, 570 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: approved by the community. 571 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: Have you ever been involved in like a really big 572 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: event and you have an important part, whether it's in 573 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: a wedding, you're walking down the aisles of flower girl 574 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: or a bridesmaid, and maybe you have the butterflies, and 575 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: you know it's a really big event, and maybe you're 576 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: not sure what to do. Like those were all the 577 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: feelings that I was feeling. I knew this was going 578 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: to be really important and that for some reason, God 579 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: had chosen me to be a part of this. 580 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 2: The night of the commitment ceremony was cold, the type 581 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 2: of winter weather where they'd bundle their faces except for 582 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 2: their eyes. Lindsay noticed how in days like this, the 583 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 2: warm condensation her breath would cling to her eyelashes, turning 584 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: them into tiny icicles. A heavy layer of snow covered 585 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 2: the property, with ice hanging stiffly from the buildings. It 586 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 2: was dark in the evening after dinner. The maiden's parents, 587 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 2: the clergy, the elders, and Victor gathered in the dining hall. 588 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 2: The room was dim lit just by oil lanterns on 589 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 2: the walls. Each maiden wore a cream lace veil. 590 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: I think I knew I should be happy. I remember 591 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: feeling very nervous and my parents they waved at one point, 592 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: and I kind of shied away. 593 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 2: She wasn't sure she was even allowed to look her 594 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 2: dad in the eyes anymore. Victor preached about concubines in 595 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 2: the Bible. 596 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: Like Solomon had many concubines, and it was basically just 597 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: women and waiting, and he would call one of them 598 00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: to have sex with them. 599 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 2: Said, the maidens would be more than concubines. 600 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: But we were committing our life to serving God in 601 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: the church and to remaining unmarried for that purpose of, 602 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, committing our life to God. I wanted to 603 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: obey and submit because I didn't want to get in trouble. 604 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: I didn't fully grasp, you know, like for the rest 605 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: of my life, what that meant, and that it meant 606 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: to Victor, not to Jesus Christ, not to God, it 607 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: meant to Victor. 608 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 2: The girls lined up from oldest to youngest. Victor walked 609 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 2: down the line. He asked each of them a question 610 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 2: of commitment. Each one said I do. Victor took out 611 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 2: a dish of salt. For each girl. He licked his finger, 612 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 2: dipped it in the salt, and put his finger on 613 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 2: his tongue. Then he dipped his finger in the salt 614 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 2: again and put the salt on her tongue. 615 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: I remember thinking that my parents took salt when they 616 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: were married. So I was trying to remember the things 617 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: that Victor had told us, that we were chosen, that 618 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: this was an honor, that how great heaven was going 619 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: to be because we had decided to give our lives. 620 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: This is almost like the ultimate sacrifice. And this is 621 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: such an opportunity for me. And out of all the 622 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: girls in the entire world, there's only ten of us. 623 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 2: Victor took out ten gold rings. 624 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: He put the rings on our hands. This was to 625 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: be worn on our ring fingers. Doesn't fit anymore. I mean, 626 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: I was just a kid there, but this is all 627 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,280 Speaker 1: it goes on now. 628 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 2: And only it doesn't even pass your second knuckle now, Nope, 629 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 2: it's so tiny. 630 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just a kid. 631 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 2: Next time, on the Turning. 632 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 5: Victor detested overweight women. He thought they were disgusting, and 633 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 5: that was one of the reasons that such an emphasis 634 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,760 Speaker 5: was put on weight control, and any of the women 635 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,280 Speaker 5: in the church who were a little heavier were consistently 636 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 5: being told to work on their weight. 637 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 2: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 638 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 2: It's written and produced by Alan Lance, Lesser and Me. 639 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 2: Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed 640 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 2: by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact 641 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 2: checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John 642 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 2: Parratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvel 643 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 2: and Nikki Etour at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us 644 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 2: on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out 645 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 2: via email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com I 646 00:44:45,520 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 2: America Lance thanks for listening.