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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. We are live

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Speaker 1: from the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. And what conservative revolution

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Speaker 1: it seems? Chief Justice John Roberts is leaning left lately.

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Speaker 1: Joining us from our Bloomberg studio in the nation's capital

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg News Supreme Court reporter Greg Store. Greg, what's

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Speaker 1: this all about? Well, there's an unmistakable pattern now, and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make too much out of this,

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Speaker 1: but the Chief Justice has been repeatedly joining with the

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Speaker 1: liberal wing, not always, but in many occasions, uh, typically

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Speaker 1: doing something narrow or procedural, but at a minimum, he

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Speaker 1: is um putting the brakes on, let's say, any in

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Speaker 1: a sharp turn to the right now that Brett Kavanaugh

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Speaker 1: was on the court. Is he following his true conservative

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Speaker 1: compass or is he thinking about his legacy? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: may be, uh, you know, some of both going on here. Um.

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Speaker 1: It is again important not to make too much out

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Speaker 1: of this. We haven't seen, for example, what he will

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Speaker 1: do when he's actually having to decide, say, an abortion

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Speaker 1: case on the Merits. A couple of weeks ago, he

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Speaker 1: did join the liberals in blocking a Louisiana law that

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Speaker 1: would have required abortion doctors who perform abortions to get

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Speaker 1: admitting privileges at a local hospital. That law is is

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Speaker 1: almost identical to a Texas law he voted against a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. The Court may end up taking

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Speaker 1: up that case on the Merits next term. The fact

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Speaker 1: that the Chief joined the liberals in and not letting

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Speaker 1: it take effect right now, UH is very interesting, um.

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Speaker 1: And it may mean something for what he's gonna say

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Speaker 1: on the marriage, but it might not in those conservative

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Speaker 1: instincts that you talked about, UH man being what carries

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Speaker 1: the day when he actually has to decide that case.

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Speaker 1: I wonder in the history of the Supreme Court, is

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Speaker 1: there any for lack of a bit of word, precedent

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Speaker 1: for this where UH justice has has sort of swung

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Speaker 1: one way or the other to prevent the Court from

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Speaker 1: going too far in either direction. There are certainly there's

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Speaker 1: certainly plenty of precedents for justices who have uh, turned

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Speaker 1: one direction or another, mostly left once they've joined the

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Speaker 1: court and proven more liberal than we thought they were

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Speaker 1: going to be, or that people thought they were going

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Speaker 1: to be at the time. About Earl Warren, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: Earl Warren, David Suitor, Harry Blackman, John Paul Stevens. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the list is is quite long if you're looking at

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Speaker 1: Republican appointees who ended up being fairly liberal in this case. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know John Roberts. You know, he's been on the

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Speaker 1: court four since, since two thousand five, and he's established

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Speaker 1: himself as a pretty you know, a solidly conservative guy,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, in in the vast majority of cases.

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Speaker 1: But he's also somebody who cares a lot about the

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Speaker 1: Court's institutional reputation. And and he's made pretty clear that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want the Court looking like a partisan institution.

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Speaker 1: He's he's very sensitive to the idea that people might

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Speaker 1: perceive this Court as being now kind of a tool

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Speaker 1: of the Republican party, uh, you know, siding with with

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Speaker 1: the administration reflexively, and so, uh you know, this may

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Speaker 1: just be his way of slowing things down and saying

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Speaker 1: we are not automatically just because we tend to be

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Speaker 1: a bit more conservative. We're not automatically gonna go for

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Speaker 1: the conservative result in every case and and certainly not

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Speaker 1: siding with the Trump administration in every case. Well, this

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Speaker 1: court has uh sort of tried to avoid or duck

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Speaker 1: some of them or contentious issues, perhaps to stay out

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Speaker 1: of politics. Yeah, that's that's a really interesting point. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know. One pattern of this term, the first full term,

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Speaker 1: the first term with Brett Cavana on it is that

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Speaker 1: that the Court has really deferred a lot of issues.

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Speaker 1: So there are some some pending appeals involving things like

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Speaker 1: the doccer program, the def deportation program that that President

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Speaker 1: Trump is trying to eliminate. There's a several appeals on

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Speaker 1: the question of whether the federal job discrimination Law Title

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Speaker 1: seven covers sexual orientation and gender identity. And the Court

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Speaker 1: has deferred acting on those. Uh they if they take

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Speaker 1: up those cases, it won't be until next term. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, so, you know, and the Chief Justice seems

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Speaker 1: to be behind at least some of that, kicking issues

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Speaker 1: down the road rather than confronting them right away. Its

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Speaker 1: Cavina voting on decisions as as expected. Um, he he is.

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Speaker 1: He's sort of so far and again it's very early

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Speaker 1: with him uh kind of straddling the camps of Sometimes

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Speaker 1: he goes with Roberts and and even along with the liberals.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of decisions this week opinions this week,

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Speaker 1: one of which he went with that group in a

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Speaker 1: six to three decision. UM and sometimes he votes with

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Speaker 1: the more conservative block of Justice is Thomas uh and

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Speaker 1: Gorseitch and Alito. Again, it's still very early to see um. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we really don't know what kind of justice

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Speaker 1: he's going to be yet, but for the time being,

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Speaker 1: he is sort of in the center right of the court.

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Speaker 1: If we were going to try to uh to prove

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Speaker 1: that justice uh Roberts is shifting left. Is there any

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Speaker 1: case ahead that would sort of be a test case

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Speaker 1: we could we could be watching that. There are a

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Speaker 1: couple of big cases is probably the two biggest cases

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Speaker 1: of this term have yet to be argued. One involves

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Speaker 1: there's actually two of them, but it's it's basically one

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Speaker 1: issue involving partisan jerrymandering, which is an issue of the

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Speaker 1: Court has had before and whether uh uh partisan jerrymanders

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Speaker 1: can be challenged in court. Uh. That's an issue where

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Speaker 1: we saw a partisan divide before or an ideological divide

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Speaker 1: excuse me before where the conservatives, uh generally don't like

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Speaker 1: to to to let jerrymanders be challenged. So that's a

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Speaker 1: big one. And then the second one is this case

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Speaker 1: involving whether the Trump administration can Trump administration can add

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Speaker 1: a question about citizenship to the census. Again, that's going

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Speaker 1: to be an ideological divide um. And at this point

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Speaker 1: it's it's really anybody's guess how the Chief Justice might

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Speaker 1: vote in that case. I want to shift gears to

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Speaker 1: make sure we ask about Justice Ginsburg for a moment.

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Speaker 1: She just returned to the court after some health challenges.

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Speaker 1: How's she doing. Yeah, she seems to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: going full steam again, every bit as much engaged, um

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Speaker 1: as she was before the cancer surgery that she had

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Speaker 1: late last year. Um. When she came back to the

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Speaker 1: court after being being away for a couple of months. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the very first opportunity she had an opinion to to deliver,

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Speaker 1: making clear that she had been working while she was recuperating. Uh.

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Speaker 1: She's about to turn eighty six. I think it's two

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Speaker 1: weeks from today she turns eighty six, But no indications

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Speaker 1: right now that she's slowing down, not that she would

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Speaker 1: signal anything, but no indication that there are any plans

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Speaker 1: for her too to retire. No, and and you know

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Speaker 1: she has used that phrase full steam. She said she

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Speaker 1: will keep doing this job as long as she can

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Speaker 1: do a full steam. Uh she did uh miss a

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Speaker 1: round of arguments, but uh, you know, is now back

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Speaker 1: and seems to be going full steam. And so it's

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine that she that she will retire anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: I watched the documentary. She could do more push ups

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Speaker 1: than me can push ups, She can do squads and uh,

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Speaker 1: yes she is um uh you know by all indications, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, a woman who can do an all off,

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Speaker 1: all lot but stuff, both physically and mentally. At this stage,

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't be saying much for me though. Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: a Supreme Court reporter Greg Store, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to the show on Apple podcast,

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Speaker 1: SoundCloud and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg