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Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelly. Welcome to Bloomberg Business of Sports. It's

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Speaker 1: a podcast. It's a radio show where we talk with

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Speaker 1: some of the most influential and the up and coming

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Speaker 1: folks in the world of sports, especially when it comes

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Speaker 1: to that nexus of economics and the games that we

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Speaker 1: all love. My guest today Rachel Luba. She's the founder

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Speaker 1: of Luba Sports. She has a new agency, relatively new agency.

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Speaker 1: Her big client, Trevor Bauer. Probably heard of him. He's

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Speaker 1: a key picture in the rotation for the Cincinnati Reds.

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Speaker 1: This conversation happened at a time today where folks are

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Speaker 1: trying to get together to figure out how to get

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Speaker 1: baseball back. And one of the big takeaways from this

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Speaker 1: interview I got at least was we may be further

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Speaker 1: away from that, at least rhetorically and from a negotiating perspective.

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Speaker 1: Still some optimism that by maybe July four we'll see

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Speaker 1: some baseball. But who gets paid, how they get paid,

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Speaker 1: who's going to lose money, what the game looks like

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Speaker 1: on the other side, those are all big questions. I

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Speaker 1: also talked to Rachel about building her own business. She

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Speaker 1: has a different model with which she represents folks disruptive

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Speaker 1: and certainly cutting against the grain. She has a great

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Speaker 1: comment that you'll hear about basically away from the bros

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Speaker 1: to the nerds and really leveraging that and taking advantage

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Speaker 1: of the fact that negotiations these days they're more science

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Speaker 1: than art. Check it out well, Rachel, it's great to

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Speaker 1: be talking to you. Really appreciate you taking some time.

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Speaker 1: It's incredibly busy right now, and it's incredibly busy because

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Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out how and when and whether,

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Speaker 1: I guess baseball comes back, what's the state of play.

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Speaker 1: We've got people at least talking about it, but give

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Speaker 1: me a reality check. It's kind of interesting because right

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Speaker 1: now you have the media that kind of came out

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Speaker 1: and listed what what the MLBS and the owner's proposal

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Speaker 1: was for the players and how to resume play UM,

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Speaker 1: And after you know, talking with the union and talking

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Speaker 1: with UM, you know, players, you start to realize that,

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Speaker 1: first of all, the only kind of proposal that they

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Speaker 1: have made UM has to do with the operations of

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Speaker 1: actually resuming play UM. So you know, everything from how

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Speaker 1: they're going to be tested all the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: for the virus uh and like safety precautions, but they're

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Speaker 1: actually hasn't really been any sort of economic proposal that's

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Speaker 1: been made to the union um, and I think that

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Speaker 1: kind of goes contrary to what the average stan and

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Speaker 1: the media's you know, staying out there. So you know,

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Speaker 1: from an agent's perspective, UM, it's kind of clear that

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Speaker 1: the owners have taken to the media to kind of

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Speaker 1: put leak this out there about this you know, turn

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Speaker 1: it fee compensation structure and you know, to try to

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Speaker 1: gauge I guess um, fan perception to it and then

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Speaker 1: put pressure on the players so that they feel uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: and want to you know, now a lot of them

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Speaker 1: feel attacked right now. So you know, it's an interesting environment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Gulf seems wide on the on the economic picture.

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Speaker 1: Help me understand where the players are coming from and

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Speaker 1: where you know, you represent, as we mentioned a very

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Speaker 1: well known picture for the Reds Trevor Bauer. You know, like,

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Speaker 1: what's your perspective representing him? I mean, listen, they like

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Speaker 1: he specifically, he loves to compete. He always wants to play,

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Speaker 1: like he's the first person that is, you know, dying

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Speaker 1: to get back on the field and dying to get

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Speaker 1: back on the mound and pitch and compete for his team. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, not being said that there is there was

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Speaker 1: a fee compensation structure that was originally greed in March. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, amidst the whole virus, and from where the

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Speaker 1: players are sitting, the owners are kind of trying to

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Speaker 1: go back on that and put the I guess the

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Speaker 1: burden of the risk that they're taking that they're going

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Speaker 1: to lose a bunch of money because there will be

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Speaker 1: no fans, and they're trying to kind of place it

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Speaker 1: on the players. And the way the players kind of

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Speaker 1: feel about it is that look, as business owners, when

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Speaker 1: you know you own a team, you take a lot

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Speaker 1: of risks, but there's also a lot of upside and

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Speaker 1: reward that you get from taking those risks. Right when

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Speaker 1: you have a great year, you know, you bring in

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Speaker 1: a lot of money when that happens. Players never see

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Speaker 1: as a whole the profits and the benefits of that risk. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: you'll see in free agency, I guess you know, they'll

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Speaker 1: spend more money, but only a few players who profit

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Speaker 1: off of that, So not the players as a whole um.

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Speaker 1: So what's happening right now is the owners are kind

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Speaker 1: of asking the players as a whole to creamptively kind

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Speaker 1: of burden the risk, you know, take on the loss

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Speaker 1: and the way I guess, I think the players are

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Speaker 1: kind of looking and it's like, look, most of them,

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Speaker 1: whoever is in the open market this next offseason, they're

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Speaker 1: probably going to take some sort of hit. Um. So

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Speaker 1: to ask players beforehand to also take an additional loss

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Speaker 1: um and you know, kind of take on the risk

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Speaker 1: and you know, the loss of profit um when they

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Speaker 1: never get to reap those those benefits out of the

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Speaker 1: business and during you know, profitable years, they're they're kind

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Speaker 1: of out on it. And you know, also you have

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Speaker 1: like the additional risk, but they're asking them to go

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Speaker 1: out there um and you know, risk their health and

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Speaker 1: safety um. And so to ask them to take the

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Speaker 1: additional cut when they're the ones taking on even more

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Speaker 1: risk the fact that you can't have fans in the stands,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of acknowledging the fact that this is in

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Speaker 1: a completely safe environment. So so when you ask them

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Speaker 1: to go out and take an additional risk, but then

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Speaker 1: also take an additional pay cut from what they already

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Speaker 1: you know, agreed to UM. You know, it doesn't say

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Speaker 1: we was a lot of players. And what do you

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Speaker 1: make of this sort of public pressure argument, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have folks at least implicitly and in some cases

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Speaker 1: explicitly essentially invoking listen, this is America's pastime, this is

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Speaker 1: good for the country. You have that coming from the

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Speaker 1: highest levels. How much pressure does that put on players

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Speaker 1: to just say, all right, we're gonna you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: buckle a little bit because it's for the greater good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the pressures amends. I would say, um, they're

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Speaker 1: they're feeling it. And it's always interesting to me that

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Speaker 1: you know, fans will side you know, they'll they'll call

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Speaker 1: the players greedy and they'll side with I mean, the

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Speaker 1: reality is the owners, the ones that are um, you know,

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Speaker 1: asking for a break here, are much more else see

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Speaker 1: than the players. I think a lot of fans forget that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these players, especially with the changing of

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Speaker 1: the environment with free agency, and you see a lot

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Speaker 1: of UM teams you know, leaning towards and UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: paying or they're wanting to retain younger players, right and

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Speaker 1: they get to pay them less. A lot of players

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Speaker 1: are making the you know, major league minimum UM, so

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Speaker 1: they're they're not that's about five dollars, so just kind

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Speaker 1: of put that into perspective. That's not millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: at all. They already agreed to an additional UM pay

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Speaker 1: kind of a pro rated amount per game. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think the way I guess the way that they

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Speaker 1: feel right now is that, um, you know, fans are

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Speaker 1: very kind of pushing for them to go back to work,

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Speaker 1: and they feel they acknowledge. I think that they're very

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Speaker 1: lucky to be in the position that they're in, and

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Speaker 1: they do make a good living, and there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of people out there, you know, especially right now, the

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Speaker 1: essential workers who are putting putting their lives on the

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Speaker 1: line as well, and they're not making you know, anywhere

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Speaker 1: near that. But uh, you know, you could have a

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Speaker 1: whole moral discussion about should players be paid what they are,

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Speaker 1: but I think the reality is, like they see it

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Speaker 1: as like there was there wasn't agreement. Um, there's also

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Speaker 1: the c b A that we collectively bargain every four

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Speaker 1: years that's agreed upon, and so to kind of go

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Speaker 1: back on that or you know, asked to kind of

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Speaker 1: change the rules in favor of the owners. Um, amidst

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Speaker 1: the pandemic is you know, doesn't sit well with them.

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Speaker 1: But I think the pressure go back. You can, you

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Speaker 1: can see it right now. There's players that are speaking up, UM,

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Speaker 1: that are voicing our opinion. They're getting a ton of

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Speaker 1: backlash for it, UM, And I think it's I think

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Speaker 1: sports are kind of the one industry where fans tend

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Speaker 1: to feel like they they almost are the owners in

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Speaker 1: a way. Um, It's like their team, right, Um, even

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Speaker 1: though they're not. You know, they're not the ones showing

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Speaker 1: out the money, but it's their team. Like they're the

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Speaker 1: ones who are employing these guys, and they feel the

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Speaker 1: strong kind of relation to the owners versus I think

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Speaker 1: the players. Interesting. That's a really interesting dynamic. Well, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the c B A and obviously, uh, next year,

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Speaker 1: I believe that's gonna be back on the table. How

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Speaker 1: much do you worry about precedents being set or things

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Speaker 1: and decisions being made in this time, which is by

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Speaker 1: all accounts, there's no argument about the fact that this

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Speaker 1: is an extraordinary time that essentially and effectively bleeding over

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Speaker 1: into negotiations next year. You know, I don't really think

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Speaker 1: that anything that's done this year UM is going to

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Speaker 1: be a one off. It's going to be an outlier,

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Speaker 1: is the way I kind of see it. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: even with how they're gonna they're gonna have to restructure

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Speaker 1: how they do sell the arbitration because it just won't

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Speaker 1: it won't work in the traditional model, and so the

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Speaker 1: salary arbitration will kind of never be used again for

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Speaker 1: comparisons basically. UM. So to say to think that any

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Speaker 1: anything we decide will carry over, I don't necessarily I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily worry about it like it will adversely affect players.

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Speaker 1: But I think there is a way to kind of

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Speaker 1: use this situation to give and take as players, knowing

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Speaker 1: that it's almost like you're not you're not really risking

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Speaker 1: anything because this is like a free d year. Like

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Speaker 1: let's let's let's let the teams and the owner's experiments

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Speaker 1: with stuff UM or let's let MLB experiment, let's try

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Speaker 1: universal d H something like that. Right where I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, players themselves can kind of gauge uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're appeal for it, whether they like it and it's

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Speaker 1: something that they want going for or without feeling like

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Speaker 1: they're committed to it because it was bargaining in the

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Speaker 1: c d A. UM. And I think when you get

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Speaker 1: to the c d A, if they realized they did

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Speaker 1: something that or you know, agreed to something that they

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Speaker 1: really don't like, you know, then they you know, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of out the window. UM. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: a way to create leverage right now. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: it's completely um being used, but I'm not sure it's

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Speaker 1: going to be something that's gonna really carry over um

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Speaker 1: and hurt into negotiations. Yeah. Well, you you bring up

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Speaker 1: an interesting point though, that that it is a way

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Speaker 1: to experiment sort of with the game itself to some extent.

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Speaker 1: You brought up the idea of universal d H. Are

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Speaker 1: there other things that you think are on the players

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Speaker 1: minds that they may want to try given that we

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Speaker 1: are in this very different environment and going to be

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Speaker 1: playing in a very different way. UM, you know, I think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the the universal d H is definitely one

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Speaker 1: of them, and I think it will be an interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know change. The postseason format, I think is one

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Speaker 1: that um is interesting to players. I'm not sure that

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Speaker 1: they're hung sols on this model specifically of what we've

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Speaker 1: kind of heard from the media of the expansion of

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Speaker 1: the teams that will be in the postseason. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would say that there are definitely players

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Speaker 1: out there that are open to some sort of change

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Speaker 1: in postseason format. Interesting, So what happens next at this point?

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Speaker 1: Obviously there are discussions happening, But what's a realistic time

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Speaker 1: tap As a fan, I'm asking, uh, you know what,

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Speaker 1: what's what's a realistic timetable here? Do you think? If

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Speaker 1: I have to guess, I think it's like almost end

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Speaker 1: of May right now, So I would say by this

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Speaker 1: time in June, players will will be in their home cities,

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Speaker 1: UM for workouts for spring training. That that was my

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Speaker 1: best guest. But again, like the media have made it

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Speaker 1: seem like the owners, I think UM have proposed much

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Speaker 1: more and have gone into much more detail to the

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Speaker 1: union UM. But in reality, that's that's the media talking.

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Speaker 1: That's owners, you know, whether it's owners or whoever, it

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Speaker 1: is kind of leaking into the media. But there's still

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Speaker 1: a lot that needs to be unpacked here In terms

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Speaker 1: of the economics. Yeah, well, and you understand the economics

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Speaker 1: of this game so well, and it's interesting just sort

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Speaker 1: of even reading about you know that even going to

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Speaker 1: level down, you know, different owners, different cities, different franchises,

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Speaker 1: the economic impacts are going to be very different across

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Speaker 1: the league here. Does that sort of raise the level

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Speaker 1: of difficulty or is that just kind of the way

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Speaker 1: it is in all professional sports? I mean I think

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's the way it's going to be in

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Speaker 1: m the haves and have not have not right, all right,

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Speaker 1: I mean listen like it's then I think kind of

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Speaker 1: natural and flow of of businesses, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: obviously this is a very very rough year for all businesses,

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Speaker 1: and I think you're going to see it. But there'll

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Speaker 1: be effects, um, you know, ripple effects in the market,

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Speaker 1: probably this offseason. Um, But you know that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of it's to be expected. I guess. Yeah. Interesting. So

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Speaker 1: I want to shift a little bit, if we can,

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Speaker 1: into your business, how you created it, how you run it,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of your background, and maybe as a

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Speaker 1: bridge to that. I read somewhere that you said contract

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Speaker 1: negotiations are less art and more science these days, And

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Speaker 1: clearly this is the time where we're talking a lot

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Speaker 1: about science from a different perspective, health and vaccines and

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Speaker 1: serologicals and and all of that. Uh, what did you

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Speaker 1: mean by that? And it feels like that might be

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Speaker 1: more appropriate than ever. Yeah, So the way I guess,

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Speaker 1: the way I see is that I'm kind of lucky

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Speaker 1: to um be trying to I guess, you know, when

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Speaker 1: I tried to break into this industry, um, you know

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Speaker 1: nowadays versus if I tried this, you know, maybe even

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, I'm not sure how much success I

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Speaker 1: would have had. And that's largely I think because of

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Speaker 1: my gender. I'm a female obviously, so um It's the

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Speaker 1: reason I think I'm kind of able to break into

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Speaker 1: it now is because before it was much more. It

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Speaker 1: was much more like a boys club. And not to

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Speaker 1: say that it isn't still a boys club, but I

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Speaker 1: think the way that negotiations are done, the way contract negotiations,

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Speaker 1: negotiations are done with the with the teams, you see,

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Speaker 1: you see a trend shifting from it was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of former players that kind of make up the front

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Speaker 1: office when they're done too. Now you have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of guys who have never played baseball, maybe they played

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Speaker 1: Little league or you know, in high school, and there

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Speaker 1: are a bunch of you know, really smart, really bright

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Speaker 1: Ivy League grads that uh, you know, majored in statistics

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Speaker 1: and um that they're basically they're just a bunch of nerds.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the front office and and no, no

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Speaker 1: hate to the nerds, like I'm a nerd too, um,

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Speaker 1: but that those are the kinds of guys that are

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Speaker 1: in the front office now. So there's a change. And

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Speaker 1: the way that they're valuing players is they're they're running

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Speaker 1: numbers and they have these algorithms that are kind of

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Speaker 1: determining players values. And you know, you can only i guess,

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Speaker 1: argue and negotiate so much with numbers. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: numbers are numbers. Values are values. There's a small there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a range that you can push it, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of when you're negotiating, but it's

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Speaker 1: much less of you know, let's go on a golf

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Speaker 1: course and have some beers and talk business and you know,

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Speaker 1: you do me a solid I'll do you a solid

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. You know, they they have the

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Speaker 1: values and like this is this is what they can pay.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of teams are you know, more or

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Speaker 1: less valuing players pretty similarly because again, like numbers don't

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Speaker 1: really lie, UM, and numbers are what they are. So

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Speaker 1: when I say like it's much less, are much more

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Speaker 1: of a science now and less of an art. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I can go in if if

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Speaker 1: I can create the same kind of algorithm. I guess

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Speaker 1: the way I saw it is like I know their

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Speaker 1: value and I don't feel like I'm up against this

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Speaker 1: boys club. I don't need to be buddy buddy with

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Speaker 1: jams anymore. If I have algorithms, I can, you know,

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Speaker 1: go and negotiate for my player. UM with numbers. They

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Speaker 1: have numbers. I have numbers, And you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: much again, like I said, it's much more of a

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Speaker 1: science now, UM. And so it just changes the environment,

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Speaker 1: makes that I think a little more UM doable for

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Speaker 1: people other than the traditional Let's be honest, it was

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Speaker 1: you know, the white male that really usually UM had

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Speaker 1: a chance to work in baseball. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: changing a lot now. Yeah, it's the debrowing maybe of

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Speaker 1: the industry that here's opening. UM. So I do wonder

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Speaker 1: how that informed some some pretty dramatic decisions. It feels

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Speaker 1: like you made in creating even the model of your company,

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Speaker 1: you know, moving to an hourly rate. Moving to a

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Speaker 1: situation where you're essentially assembling it sounds like sort of

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Speaker 1: a different team of sorts for each player. Walk me

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Speaker 1: through kind of the conception of that and how this

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Speaker 1: fits together. Yeah, So I guess the way I saw

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Speaker 1: when I was interning an agency when I was in

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Speaker 1: law school, Um, you know, I got to really see

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Speaker 1: the inner workings of an agency and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: how they work with their players. And then um, it

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Speaker 1: thought me thinking, um. And then as I guess, when

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Speaker 1: I was at the Union working there, I really got

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Speaker 1: a sabians and out like the good, the bad, the

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Speaker 1: ugly of all the different agencies. But one of the

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Speaker 1: things that out the most to me was the way

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Speaker 1: the the structure is right now where you take a

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Speaker 1: percentage or the agents take a percentage of the players contract. Um.

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Speaker 1: To me, I saw the amount of work that agents

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Speaker 1: were spending on their players. And really, when it was

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Speaker 1: any time other than a contract negotiation, a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: you know, agents weren't that involved with their players. They

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Speaker 1: weren't going out there and a lot of players like

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Speaker 1: they pitch agents or they pitched their agencies to players. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, as these full service agencies they offer you know,

339
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Speaker 1: some are big media companies too, and they offer you know,

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Speaker 1: all these services, um, but where they make their money

341
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Speaker 1: is on the field, like for the on field contract.

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Speaker 1: So once they negotiate that, Let's say, once you negotiate

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Speaker 1: a you know, a ten year contract, you lock in

344
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Speaker 1: that feed. The very next day, your players can leave

345
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Speaker 1: you leader agency and go to another agency. You will

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Speaker 1: get that entire ten year contract the percentage the seed

347
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Speaker 1: that you've earned. The other agency that he leaves, even

348
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Speaker 1: if he leaves the very next day, will not see

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Speaker 1: any of it. So be incentive to kind of go

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Speaker 1: out and be doing work, you know for your players. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's just not really there. Um. And so it got

352
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Speaker 1: me thinking and you know, how do you how do

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Speaker 1: you change about how do you incentivize um, you know

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Speaker 1: agents too to do work for their players. And so

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Speaker 1: that was like kind of the first thing that made

356
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Speaker 1: me think of, you know, this hourly structure. And again,

357
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: this isn't like a this isn't a novel, um, you know,

358
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Speaker 1: brand new idea. This is something that I mean, this

359
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: is how most law firms operate. And so I think,

360
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Speaker 1: you know, with my legal around that was at least

361
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Speaker 1: when I was in school kind of trained with and

362
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: you learn all about builable hours, but it incentivizes you

363
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Speaker 1: to do work, right, that's how you get paid, and

364
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Speaker 1: then the other way. I kind of thought it was

365
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Speaker 1: especially with this change. And um, you know, as we

366
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Speaker 1: get into more modern times and we're using data and

367
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Speaker 1: analytics to value players, you know, the I guess players

368
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: their value is much more set in stone. Um, So

369
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Speaker 1: the amount of you know, the amount that agent really

370
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Speaker 1: truly moves the neatle um isn't isn't like I think

371
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Speaker 1: it used to be. So for an agent then to

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Speaker 1: go and profit off of a player who creates his

373
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Speaker 1: own value on the field himself, and for an agent

374
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Speaker 1: to then get percentage of that, to me didn't make sense. Right.

375
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Speaker 1: You should pay for the value of the service provided

376
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: versus the value the versus the player paying for the

377
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: value that he created himself. So that was kind of

378
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Speaker 1: I guess where I have this idea of you know,

379
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Speaker 1: maybe maybe this kind of alternate model UM would would

380
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: be good in the industry. Um, So why didn't this

381
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: happened before? You think? Rachel? Um? You know, I think

382
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: you can you can say that about about any sort

383
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Speaker 1: of disruptive bottle in any industry. Um. And look like

384
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Speaker 1: I'll be the first to tell you, Like I when

385
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: I was up there, but I was at the Union,

386
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: I picked a lot of um brains, you know, from

387
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: guys that have worked in the sport for you know,

388
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: thirty forty years. UM. I asked him the same question.

389
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: I was like, am I missing something here? Because to

390
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: me this makes sense to me? And again like this

391
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: isn't for everybody. Um. You know, it might not be

392
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: the agency, the type of structure for all players, but

393
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: this seems like it would be a viable option for many.

394
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: And you know, their answer kind of just was usually

395
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: like the industry is right for something like this, but

396
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: it's just gonna take take the right the right person

397
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: to kind of go do it, um, And you kind

398
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: of black fallow yourself, I guess, um from a lot

399
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: of other agencies, and you know, like you kind of

400
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: become enemies to them. And I think that was always

401
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: something that dissuaded a lot of people from doing it. Um.

402
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: But the problem was, I guess for me, it was

403
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: much more easy to kind of swallow that because I

404
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: was all a lot of times my gender already kind

405
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: of black all me. Yeah, and so how how has

406
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: that gone? I mean, but put those two together for me,

407
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: Because you are an outlier, I think it's safe to

408
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: say in a no, as you just described, has it

409
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: gotten easier, has it gotten harder? What have you learned? Um?

410
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: I think it's gotten I think it's gotten easier. UM.

411
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: I think slowly like I'm becoming less of this new

412
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, this new person in the industry that doesn't

413
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: know what she's talking about, that doesn't really belong here versus.

414
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: You know. I've tried to be outspoken, um the best

415
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: I can, and even on social media. UM, in order

416
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: to you know, give myself a voice and um, you know,

417
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: just make my voice heard. UM. And I think it's

418
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: kind of it's it's changed, you know, the feelings where

419
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: before it was like everyone just kind of ignored me.

420
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: And you know, she she was no one. She you know,

421
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: she's new, she's she's a female. She doesn't know what

422
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: she's doing too, just someone who has outspoken opinions or

423
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it is different, but I'm much I

424
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: think it's I'm much more I guess accepted in the industry. UM.

425
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say like a lot of agents are I'm

426
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: not sure how crazy they are about me, but I

427
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: think I'm I've definitely kind of secured a thought in

428
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: the industry. And so where does it where does your

429
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: agency go from here? Obviously, as we talked about at

430
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: the top, you know, you have a very high profile

431
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: client in Trevor Bauer. Is this you know and is

432
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: the model imminently scalable? I mean, do you build this

433
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: into a mega agency? Is that your vision or what?

434
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: How do you take this and how do you look

435
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: at You're clearly very goal oriented, You're clearly very driven.

436
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: You're clearly fearless when it when it comes to, you know,

437
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: breaking the mold. What are the next couple of steps

438
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: for your business? Yeah, I mean I think it's bringing

439
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: on more clients UM But again with my the structure

440
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: that I have in the way it's set up, the

441
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: more clients I bring on, the more UM staff and

442
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: personnel I can bring on as well to service them.

443
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the nice part about the way

444
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: that mine set up, because I do I mean, one

445
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: of the things I've you know, very cognizant of is

446
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to have what these normal agencies traditional

447
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: agencies to have and how they operate. Where the you know,

448
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: player to staff personnel ratio is you know, is crazy. Um.

449
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: You know there's a handful of personnel trying to you

450
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: know manage you know it could you could have hundreds clients. UM.

451
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: I want to be able to have you know, more

452
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: or less undivided attention for for the players if if

453
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: the players want to service, you know, I want them

454
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: to have someone who is specifically working on working on that.

455
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: And I've seen you know already even in the last

456
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: year the benefits of that with Trevor and just how

457
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: much he's been able to grow his brand, you know,

458
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: even off the field, and obviously he did. We've got

459
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: him a great contract. Um. You know, he's the second

460
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: highest paid UH starting pitcher in salary arbutration. So you know,

461
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: we didn't we didn't drop the ball there. And then

462
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, look at his look at his brand now

463
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: even just in the last year. Um. But because that

464
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: was something that was important to him, so we could

465
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: get him. We have the resources and we get him

466
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: the right people to you know, focus on him and

467
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: helping him reach those goals. How much do you think

468
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: being a former competitive athlete helps you from a mindset perspective,

469
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: both in the sort of the discipline, but also in

470
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: in having conversations with with athletes and people around the

471
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: athletic ecosystem. I mean, I think it helps tremendously, um,

472
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: just in terms of you know, having my business and

473
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: trying to grow it. Um. You know, there's a lot

474
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: of Any athlete will tell you there's always a ton

475
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: of doubt usually that they have over you know, overcome

476
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: and prove people wrong, and you kind of fail your

477
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: way to success as an athlete, um, at least as

478
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: a gymnast. Usually it's like you know, you that's that's

479
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: how you see. You're used to falling on your face

480
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: over and over again, literally falling on your face, right

481
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: like that, not that this is not a metaphorical falling,

482
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: this is actually falling. Yeah yeah, so, I mean that

483
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: was something since the ages too that I grew up with.

484
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: I'm used to, um, you know, you you fail your

485
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: way to success. So that's why that's definitely helped, um,

486
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: I think, and having my business and not you know,

487
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: not giving up and um, pushing through the very kind

488
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable times and there were many um so yeah,

489
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: I think that helps greatly. And then you know, in

490
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: terms of talking to athletes, Look, I didn't play baseball

491
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: and plays softball. I don't know what it's like to

492
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: be in a clubhouse. Um, but every athlete like has

493
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: something in them and like they know what it's like

494
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: to give up their lives. Like I didn't give up

495
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: my life for sport um as an adult like these

496
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: guys are doing. But I gave up my entire childhood

497
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: basically from the age of two to a sport. So

498
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: I understand that. I understand, Um, you know the poll

499
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: that it takes on your body. Um, gymnastics is not

500
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: nice to your body at all. So just some of

501
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: these things I think definitely help when you know, trying

502
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: to relate to athletes, relating to you know, how do

503
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: you balance work and what you've committed to with you know,

504
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: family stuff in your personal life. Um, so yeah, I

505
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: think it's I think it helps, And I haven't found

506
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: too many baseball players that look at it like, you know, oh,

507
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: you don't know what it's like to like, you know,

508
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: you were never a baseball player, like they understand. Any

509
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: sort of athletes that com piece at a high level

510
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: probably understand you know more or less what they're going through, right, interesting. So,

511
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, want to close by by asking a question

512
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: that we've been asking a lot of folks over the

513
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: past few months who are incredibly successful in business, and

514
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: it's about this sort of time that that we're living in.

515
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about it in the

516
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: context of baseball and the game and the economics of it.

517
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: But but I wonder, and you can take this in

518
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: whatever direction you want, you know, when we get to

519
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: the other side of this, and it feels like we're

520
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: creeping towards that, how are how is life sort of

521
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: sports however business, how is it fundamentally changed, maybe in

522
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: ways that that we don't quite anticipate now in your estimation,

523
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: it's a good it's a good question. Um, you know,

524
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, it's going to change. I think

525
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: there's going to be some drastic changes at least for

526
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: the next year or two. Um. But a part of

527
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: me wants to say that there is going to be

528
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: a bigger shift towards not that they're already isn't social media,

529
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: but utilizing social media and different ways, whether it's you know,

530
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: consuming sports, because I think with this, you know, with

531
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: the social distancing and people you know, less less comfortable

532
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: with being in crowds and things like that, I think

533
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: finding ways to connect with whether it's you know, fans

534
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: or you know, what you know, streaming sports or whatever.

535
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: I think it's going. I think there's going to be

536
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: some sort of focus on on social media. You've seen

537
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: platforms even that have taken off in the last two

538
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: months because of covid UM. I mean, I don't know,

539
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: if you know TikTok. Of course, yeah, I have teenagers,

540
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: so they so they have they have very much informed

541
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: me of that. It is not something I'm personally involved in,

542
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: but I you know, I've got I've got my team

543
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: being you know, a seventeen year old in a fifteen

544
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: year old working on that, right, So, but I mean,

545
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: and I'm not on TikTok really either, but you see

546
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: this app just really taken off, and even with um

547
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, adults who you know made piktok accounts and

548
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: things like that. I think there's you know, I think

549
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: there is going to be some sort of um shift

550
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: to social media, maybe new platforms that are going to

551
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: come out, and I think I'm hoping that athletes utilizing

552
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: social media more especially baseball players. Um, we've seen a

553
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: lot about like baseball players in the last few months, Um,

554
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, doing Instagram lives and kind of giving fans

555
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: more access into their into their lives, which I think

556
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: is you know, I think that's super important in order

557
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: to grow the game. Um. So I think that could be.

558
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: I guess the silver lining that comes out of it

559
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: is just um that's my hope. Yeah, yeah, interesting, Yeah,

560
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: it's interesting. You say, a baseball It feels like NBA

561
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: players just covered that before baseball players did, right, But

562
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: it's just but that's that's the culture of baseball is.

563
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's not it's this old school kind of sport.

564
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: It's you know, keep your head down. It's not about you.

565
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: It's about the team. You know, the jersey on your back, um,

566
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: and you know you're not really supposed to make it

567
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: about you. Whereas NBA. It's just a very different culture.

568
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: But I think the way to grow the fan, grow

569
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: the sport is you have to target the younger fans

570
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: and they want to connect with the athletes themselves, not

571
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: the teams. And so do you that that leads me

572
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: to to one more question. I know, I said I

573
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: was going to ask you the last question four questions ago,

574
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: but UM, will you do you have plans either immediately

575
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: or longer term to expand beyond baseball or do you

576
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: envisioned building this agency largely around baseball? I mean I

577
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: think to start obviously, I want to grow it UM

578
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: around baseball because it's you know, where I've focused my

579
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: time energy UM. But the long term goal is absolutely

580
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: to grow it. I want to expand into other sports,

581
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: possibly UM entertainment, UM, even you know, E sports I

582
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: think is the next kind of up and coming UM industry,

583
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: which I think has also largely taken off because of

584
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: UH of covid UM. So yeah, I mean that's ultimate goal.

585
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: But I want to keep the same sort of fee

586
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: structure you know, any UM, any industry that I go into.

587
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: And that was my conversation with Rachel Luba, founder of

588
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Luba Sports. My thanks to her very timely conversation obviously,

589
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: as we try to get back on the field when

590
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: it comes to Major League Baseball. Tune in later this

591
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: week check out this feed because I'm going to have

592
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: my interviews with the CEOs of Equinox and Planet Fitness

593
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: back to back two ends of the fitness spectrum, how

594
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: they plan to get back to business, and what fitness

595
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: on the other side of this may look like. Always

596
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: check me out on Twitter at Jason Kelly News. I'm

597
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. Thanks for listening. Mmmmm hm