Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on deep cover. During the late spring of
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, FBI agent Ned Timmins was deep undercover
Speaker 1: in the Cayman Islands. His goal was to spy on
Speaker 1: Lee Rich, the kingpin of the drug syndicate. As he
Speaker 1: got closer to Lee and deeper into this world, he
Speaker 1: became increasingly worried. The stress is unbelievable. There's no backup.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna really hit the radio and call nine
Speaker 1: on one. You're nine. You're not gonna be able to
Speaker 1: call for help because nobody's coming. Meanwhile, Lee had problems
Speaker 1: of his own. He worried that the FEDS were watching him,
Speaker 1: and to complicate matters, he says, his go to bank
Speaker 1: in the Caymans was no longer accepting his money for
Speaker 1: Ned Timmins. Being undercover and the Caymans meant hanging out
Speaker 1: with Lee Rich's guys. He'd chill out on the beach
Speaker 1: or at the club and listen for clues. Well, I
Speaker 1: usually was given something to do, you know, oversee the barbecues,
Speaker 1: or make sure there was no trouble at the bar
Speaker 1: with any of the guests. Not exactly the stuff of
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes, but ned couldn't ask questions really because that
Speaker 1: would draw suspicions give him away as a narc. So
Speaker 1: he just kept on listening. And then one day Lee
Speaker 1: made a cryptic reference to someone apparently in the organization
Speaker 1: called the general, and I just okay, not knowing general
Speaker 1: of what or general who or whatever, and does your
Speaker 1: whole thing is don't ask questions exactly. You start asking
Speaker 1: questions and people get suspicious. But what's your react action
Speaker 1: to that? Oh? Actually, in the middle of this, they
Speaker 1: realized that I had never been to Advanced Undercover School
Speaker 1: at Quantico, which is two week school. And I got
Speaker 1: orders and they go, oh, you haven't been to Advanced
Speaker 1: undercover school. You got to go to that. It seemed
Speaker 1: like this was the equivalent of a fireman getting called
Speaker 1: out of a burning building to take a refresher class
Speaker 1: on how to use a hose. But this was part
Speaker 1: of a relatively new effort by the FBI to rain
Speaker 1: in and standardize it's undercover practices. So I had to
Speaker 1: make up a story to Lee. I can't remember whether
Speaker 1: made up something that I had to go someplace or
Speaker 1: two weeks. So I go back to Quantico and go
Speaker 1: through Advanced undercover school. You know that's the rules. Whatever.
Speaker 1: What did you learn an advanced undercover school? I don't remember.
Speaker 1: You know what to do and what not to do
Speaker 1: and whatever. So not especially interested in his class work,
Speaker 1: it seems, and perhaps that's because his thoughts were still
Speaker 1: back in the Caymans. That comment about the General he
Speaker 1: got him thinking. Was this just some stupid nickname or
Speaker 1: was Lee talking about an actual general? Was it possible
Speaker 1: that there was someone above Lee. That's just the mindset
Speaker 1: of the FBI. We're going to work this up right
Speaker 1: to the top, just like the mafia. We're going to
Speaker 1: go after the dis We're going to go to the
Speaker 1: top of the food chain and crime. Our objective is
Speaker 1: to work up and kill the head of the snake.
Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halpern and this is Deep Cover Episode six.
Speaker 1: The silent partner. Ned didn't know it at the time,
Speaker 1: but the general that Lee was talking about, and the
Speaker 1: revelation of who he really was would change everything in
Speaker 1: this investigation. And the story of the General really begins
Speaker 1: about two years earlier. So we're going to turn back
Speaker 1: the clock to September of nineteen eighty three. At this point,
Speaker 1: Ned is still hanging out in biker bars in Detroit.
Speaker 1: Lee Rich, mister beach Club if you will, is still
Speaker 1: living the high life in the Caymans, and Stephen Kaylish,
Speaker 1: the gentleman smuggler, has not yet been arrested. Everything's going
Speaker 1: great for these guys except for one thing, their money laundering.
Speaker 1: Le's go to bank in the Caymans, the Bank of
Speaker 1: Nova Scotia wasn't an option, So now Lee and Stephen
Speaker 1: were looking for somewhere else to launder their money. At
Speaker 1: the time, Stephen says, they were trying to move a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of small bills about fifteen million dollars worth.
Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of how much cash
Speaker 1: that was, it weigh about sixteen hundred pounds, so a
Speaker 1: lot of money. And now they had nowhere to put it.
Speaker 1: So Lee and Stephen they start thinking about where else
Speaker 1: they could take their money and bank it well. The
Speaker 1: other only other solid banking haven that I knew was
Speaker 1: secure was Panama. In the early nineteen seventies, Panama more
Speaker 1: or less deregulated banking, very little oversight now taxes on
Speaker 1: foreign income, and by the time Stephen and Lee were
Speaker 1: in their bind, lots of new banks had opened their
Speaker 1: doors in Panama, which was enticing. Plus, Stephen liked Panama.
Speaker 1: I don't a book report in the third grade about
Speaker 1: the Panama Canal, so it had always held a special
Speaker 1: place of my art. Stephen's summary of its history in
Speaker 1: his third grade book report, it's basically right, the building
Speaker 1: of the canal and the failures of the French I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole way. Panama was actually became a country, you know,
Speaker 1: stolen from Columbia, basically by the US. When Panama broke
Speaker 1: away from Columbia in nineteen oh three, the United States
Speaker 1: lent its support. Then the US signed a treaty with
Speaker 1: Panama and took control of a zone about ten miles
Speaker 1: wide and fifty miles long. There was a canal there,
Speaker 1: or the start of one. Anyhow, the US completed it
Speaker 1: and then stuck around to control that canal and you know,
Speaker 1: cash in on it. So anyway, Panama had a lot
Speaker 1: of allure in Look, I've always been a risk taker, right,
Speaker 1: and a guy with a good rolodex. Stephen eventually connects
Speaker 1: with a guy named Caesar Rodriguez. He was a businessman
Speaker 1: done in Panama with connections to the banking world. A
Speaker 1: guy who could make things happen. So Stephen plans a visit.
Speaker 1: He packs for the trip, you know, the usual change
Speaker 1: of clothes and about three million in cash stuffed into
Speaker 1: some luggage. Then he flies down to Panama in a
Speaker 1: private jet. He lands at the airport in Panama and
Speaker 1: his contact, Caesar, is there to greet him in person.
Speaker 1: He's a young guy, good looking, very friendly, speaks perfect English,
Speaker 1: and he has not one but two stretch limos waiting
Speaker 1: for them. They all head downtown to the Bank of
Speaker 1: Boston building where Caesar operated a club and a big,
Speaker 1: sprawling penthouse. I mean it's very posh, it's very tricked out.
Speaker 1: There's a small little nightclub or restaurant, and Caesar tells Stephen,
Speaker 1: we have a private club here but for Hali businessmen
Speaker 1: and certain military officials that come here for dining and
Speaker 1: drinking and parting in a discreet environment. Later that night
Speaker 1: they sit down and have a meal. They're joined by
Speaker 1: another guy named Enrique Protelt. Casar introduces Enrique as his partner,
Speaker 1: and then very casually, Caesar starts to explain what exactly
Speaker 1: he and Enrique do down here in Panama. In addition
Speaker 1: to running the club, their financiers. Basically, they loan out money.
Speaker 1: And they explain to me that they're Bank of Boston
Speaker 1: Penalves and all their operations going on to Panama. We're
Speaker 1: all run through their shell company that was owned by
Speaker 1: three people. Enrique saysar in a silent third partner, and
Speaker 1: I said really, I said okay, And they said, well,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do in Panama? It's a
Speaker 1: loaded question. Stephen is still not one hundred percent sure
Speaker 1: whether he can really trust these guys. All I tell
Speaker 1: him is I have millions of dollars I need to
Speaker 1: bank in Panama, and I need to fly it in
Speaker 1: from the US, and I need security at the airport
Speaker 1: and secure banks. Caesar died in the eighties, so I
Speaker 1: couldn't interview him, but according to Stephen, Caesar was very accommodating.
Speaker 1: He tells Stephen, yes, we can definitely help you with that,
Speaker 1: and to prove it, they take him to the Bank
Speaker 1: of Credit and Commerce International, well known then as BCCI
Speaker 1: to make the necessary introductions. Stephen wheels in his cash
Speaker 1: and makes his deposits and there's no fee, no commission
Speaker 1: or anything, just thank you for your business. Afterwards, they
Speaker 1: do the same thing for him at another bank. It's
Speaker 1: all going splendidly so far. The question is what does
Speaker 1: Caesar and Enrique want from him? And the next day,
Speaker 1: back at the Penthouse Club, Caesar makes his pitch. He
Speaker 1: says he has a business that loans money to the
Speaker 1: Panama Defense Forces. In fact, the military needs financing for
Speaker 1: equipment a two point two million dollars helicopter, it turns out,
Speaker 1: and maybe Stephen could front the money if you're interested.
Speaker 1: You can make three hundred thousand dollars for setting up
Speaker 1: the financing, and then you can make ten percent interests
Speaker 1: annually own that financing, and it'll be backed up by
Speaker 1: a letter of credit from the Panamanian Defense Forces. Well,
Speaker 1: I said, well that sounds good. You're basically loan sharking
Speaker 1: money to the Panamanian military pretty much. They go on
Speaker 1: to offer Stephen a twenty five percent stake in their business,
Speaker 1: which includes the club and the loan sharking business. Stephen
Speaker 1: pauses a beat and then asks, I go, okay, what's
Speaker 1: the buy in? And they go four in a grand
Speaker 1: and I go okay, well, what's four in a grand
Speaker 1: buy me? They go, well, there's only one catch. You
Speaker 1: got to meet our partner, and I go, well, who's
Speaker 1: your ark And they go, oh, it's General Noriega. And
Speaker 1: I go, okay, well who is General Noriega? And they
Speaker 1: both look at each other like I'm stupid, and I go, look, guys,
Speaker 1: you know, excuse me. I don't know how things work here,
Speaker 1: so you got to explain it to me. So they explain.
Speaker 1: Noriega is the strong man who currently controls Panama, and
Speaker 1: his story it goes like this. Manuel Noriega was born
Speaker 1: in Panama City in nineteen thirty four. Abandoned by his parents,
Speaker 1: he was raised by a woman called Mama Luisa, who
Speaker 1: we referred to as his godmother. He was a smart kid,
Speaker 1: gets into a really prestigious high school. But he's not
Speaker 1: just smart. He's an operator. As a teenager, he joins
Speaker 1: Panama's socialist youth party, goes to protests, and writes articles
Speaker 1: criticizing Uncle Sam. Noriega goes onto a military academy in Peru.
Speaker 1: He returns and joins the National Guard. He then rises
Speaker 1: through the ranks, eventually becoming a general, and once he's
Speaker 1: at the top, he maintains power brutally. All this time,
Speaker 1: he's developing a close relationship with the CIA. He quietly
Speaker 1: supports the Contras, a right wing military group in Nicaragua.
Speaker 1: He helps the d EA and the drug wars. He's
Speaker 1: also close with Fidale Castro in Cuba. This is a
Speaker 1: guy who plays all sides and all the while he
Speaker 1: lines his own pockets and little business deals with the
Speaker 1: likes of Caesar and Enrique. And at the club and
Speaker 1: the penthouse overlooking Panama City, Caesar and Enrique tell Stephen,
Speaker 1: you two can be part of our little partnership, but
Speaker 1: you gotta meet Noriega first. And he's got a site
Speaker 1: off only being part of the company. So I said, okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's go met Noriega. So Caesa says, well, he might
Speaker 1: take him our present, and I go, what do you
Speaker 1: mean take him at present? He goes, well, you know,
Speaker 1: as a sign of respect and a sign that you're
Speaker 1: serious about learning the stay in Panama and dupists in Panama,
Speaker 1: you might want to give him something of value. So
Speaker 1: he stuffs three hundred thousand dollars in a briefcase and
Speaker 1: heads over to Noriega's house. This would be just a
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars gift, separate from the four hundred
Speaker 1: K he'd already put in. It was like well a sweetener.
Speaker 1: Stephen hoped that it would do the trick. When we
Speaker 1: come back after the break, Stephen meets the general. So
Speaker 1: Stephen Kayleish, the gentleman smuggler, you know, the hippie kid
Speaker 1: from Texas. He gets a ride over to General Manuel
Speaker 1: Noriega's house with his briefcase filled with cash. Ah. We's
Speaker 1: got high walls with ivory growing in, lots of military
Speaker 1: personnel walking patrolling the area. It's a beautiful home. I'm
Speaker 1: escorted in his office and I sit down and I
Speaker 1: set the briefcase down next to his desk. Noriega is
Speaker 1: dressed in his military uniform. His most unusual feature is
Speaker 1: the skin on his face, which is badly pockmarked. Some
Speaker 1: people even called him a pineapple face, but always behind
Speaker 1: his back, never ever to his face. To Stephen, he's
Speaker 1: very friendly. They start chatting small talk, and eventually Noriega
Speaker 1: asked him why he's in Panama, and Stephen kind of
Speaker 1: boldly says, he's looking for a new home, place that
Speaker 1: I can live in peace and quiet out I under
Speaker 1: the prying eyes at the US cover month, I said,
Speaker 1: I earn a lot of money, not interested in baying
Speaker 1: US taxes, and I want to bank my money's in panamall.
Speaker 1: According to Stephen, Riega quickly tells him not to worry.
Speaker 1: He would personally look after Steven's needs and that was
Speaker 1: kind of it. Stephen says, thank you, and he gets
Speaker 1: up to leave without the briefcase. Noriega, noticing this, calls
Speaker 1: after him. I turned around and said, no, it's pot
Speaker 1: a team, but I said it's for you, and he
Speaker 1: goes looks at me, you know, pretty serious faith, and
Speaker 1: I just smile. The gift goes over well. Stephen thought
Speaker 1: he might make some money by joining this little partnership,
Speaker 1: but he slowly realizes that what he'd really get was
Speaker 1: an ally, a very powerful ally. Later on saysar it's
Speaker 1: a call from Noriega. He wants Stephen to join them
Speaker 1: at a private party that night at the offices of
Speaker 1: the Panama Canal Company. We go to the offices, I
Speaker 1: don't know, around six six thirty and it's like I'm
Speaker 1: Noriega's best friend. I mean, when I show up, he
Speaker 1: gives me an open embrace with both arms and says
Speaker 1: that I'm welcome in Panama. And he'll make sure that
Speaker 1: everything goes away. I wanted to go. The party is
Speaker 1: mainly military people, a dozen or so colonels, a few majors,
Speaker 1: and a bunch of beautiful women. Lots to eat and drink.
Speaker 1: It's a scene that Stephen very much enjoys. At some point,
Speaker 1: Noriega offers to show him around. Noriega takes me to
Speaker 1: his own office, and it's this beautiful office that overlooks
Speaker 1: with picture windows overlooking the Panama Canal. Noriega goes back
Speaker 1: to the party and closes the door to his office
Speaker 1: and leads me sitting at his desk watching ships go
Speaker 1: by in the Bantama Canal, thinking about that third grade
Speaker 1: report I wrote, making out line to Cocaine no Noriega's
Speaker 1: desk and storming the lines right, thinking okay, I think
Speaker 1: Panama is going to work out just fine. And it did.
Speaker 1: Steven soon returned to Panama with another couple million dollars
Speaker 1: and per Noriega's instructions, landed at his air Force base
Speaker 1: and there was no customs, there was no immigration, there
Speaker 1: was no inspection of anything. Our jet taxied over to
Speaker 1: the air Force base and every day had literally climbed
Speaker 1: out of the plane into the limousine they'd off Were
Speaker 1: you with? In time, Stephen manages to get multiple Panamanian passports,
Speaker 1: including a diplomatic passport. It was a money launderer's dream,
Speaker 1: especially for Stephen, who was still a fugitive for his
Speaker 1: entire adult life. Stephen Kayliss had been running from and
Speaker 1: evading the law, and now he was protected by a
Speaker 1: man who was seemingly above the law. Stephen was untouchable.
Speaker 1: For me, it was not enough. I mean I wanted more, because,
Speaker 1: if you know, the evolution from having money becomes having power,
Speaker 1: and Panama was an opportunity to have power, real power.
Speaker 1: So I asked myself what it would take, you know,
Speaker 1: what's it going to take for Noriega to really to
Speaker 1: trust me and for me to solidify this relationship. So
Speaker 1: next Stephen makes it his goal to get closer to
Speaker 1: Noriega literally, or I want to find home, you know,
Speaker 1: in close proximity, you know, and close proximity to what
Speaker 1: I mean? Are you actively thinking I want to become
Speaker 1: Noriega's neighbor, Well, I want to live in the same area. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he does it. Within months of their first meeting.
Speaker 1: Stephen finds a house just three blocks away from Noriega,
Speaker 1: and the relationship just grows from there. Stephen introduces him
Speaker 1: to women, wrangles an invitation to Noriega's ranch, even gets
Speaker 1: the general to stations soldiers outside of his house to
Speaker 1: stand guard, And when Noriega gets invited to Washington, DC
Speaker 1: in November of nineteen eighty three for an official visit,
Speaker 1: Stephen loans him his personal jet to use while he's
Speaker 1: in the US. On this visit, he met with a
Speaker 1: host of top level US officials, including the Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 1: He also met with William Casey, the director of the CIA.
Speaker 1: Noriega described their meeting as a leisurely four hour lunch.
Speaker 1: In his memoir, he wrote, I had been the US
Speaker 1: contact person throughout the nineteen seventies. I was well known
Speaker 1: to everyone in the CIA. Now with Casey, the relations
Speaker 1: would become tighter. After his time in DC, Noriega took
Speaker 1: Stephen's jet to Las Vegas, where he shopped, drank, and
Speaker 1: played Roulette. Then we came back to panamall well. He
Speaker 1: insisted that ip it is receiving line when he was
Speaker 1: returning to panamall right, so I'm waiting in line as
Speaker 1: he getting off of my jap. Stephen says that Noriega
Speaker 1: makes his way down the receiving line and then stops.
Speaker 1: When he gets to Stephen. They have a quick chat.
Speaker 1: Noriega says, the US wants him to do two things.
Speaker 1: One keep helping the Contras, that right wing militia in Nicaragua,
Speaker 1: and two open up the banks in Panama for inspection.
Speaker 1: Stephen was hanging on Noriega's every word. Inspections would mean
Speaker 1: trouble for him, but Noriega puts his fears to rest.
Speaker 1: He goes, I don't remind help him with a contras.
Speaker 1: I'd never opened the banks. Stephen let that sink in.
Speaker 1: The top power brokers in the US wanted to clean
Speaker 1: up Panama's banking sector, which would ruin Stephen's money laundering scheme,
Speaker 1: and Noriega says he rebuffed them, told them no. This
Speaker 1: is all according to Stephen. In Noriega's memoir, he doesn't
Speaker 1: mention meeting Kaylish, making this deal, or using his plane,
Speaker 1: But then again, why would he. This is not the
Speaker 1: kind of relationship you want to advertise. In any case,
Speaker 1: Stephen was pleased. I'm thinking this is what power looks like.
Speaker 1: I've never felt safe in my life. I have this
Speaker 1: great home, I have great staff, I got military guards
Speaker 1: outside my house. You know, I feel pretty untouchable at
Speaker 1: the moment. Stephen soon began planning a four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: pound load destined for New York City, disguised as a
Speaker 1: shipment of plantation hanes from Panama. So it's full steam ahead.
Speaker 1: As a token of his gratitude, Stephen started lavishing Noriega
Speaker 1: with gifts. But what exactly do you buy for the
Speaker 1: dictator who's got everything? Stephen starts by giving him two
Speaker 1: gold plated rifles and some ivory handled pistols collector's pieces
Speaker 1: worth in total about thirty thousand dollars. But he was
Speaker 1: just getting started. I bought Noriega a presidential plane. I
Speaker 1: actually paid the millions of dollars for it and got
Speaker 1: a letter of credit from the Panamanian government for it.
Speaker 1: Just to be clear here, what Stephen really did was
Speaker 1: provide the financing. Nonetheless, it was a grand gesture, and
Speaker 1: naturally he had an ulterior motive. Stephen just wanted a
Speaker 1: small favor to occasionally have his plane fly to Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Where Steven's guys would load it up with
Speaker 1: some trunks of drug money marked with diplomatic seals. The
Speaker 1: seals would mean no one could open them. In return,
Speaker 1: Noriega would get a cut. According to Stephen, Noriega agreed.
Speaker 1: At this point. You may be wondering what happened to
Speaker 1: Lee Rich mister beach club. Wasn't he the guy in charge.
Speaker 1: He did make at least one trip to Panama with Stephen,
Speaker 1: But this whole Panama thing, it was Steven's baby, and
Speaker 1: once Stephen was buddy buddy with Noriega, everything began to change.
Speaker 1: Stephen was now handling the smuggling and the financing. Lee
Speaker 1: wasn't entirely comfortable with this arrangement, but there wasn't a
Speaker 1: lot he could do about it. They needed Noriega now.
Speaker 1: As for Stephen, who'd been a fugitive for years, he
Speaker 1: finally felt like you could breathe a bit easier. He
Speaker 1: didn't need the Canons or the US for that matter.
Speaker 1: He could just chill in Panama. But he was still
Speaker 1: handling the logistics for his massive op America's heartland. There
Speaker 1: were a few things he still had to do, like
Speaker 1: closing down his safe house in Tampa, so he returned stateside,
Speaker 1: and that's when the FEDS nabbed him. This was the
Speaker 1: big arrest at the airport in Tampa that we told
Speaker 1: you about an episode four. So when I finally did
Speaker 1: get arrested, I figured, well, maybe I'll figure this out somehow.
Speaker 1: And I had millions of dollars stashed in panamall and
Speaker 1: so they was from that day four. Then I started
Speaker 1: working on a way how to get up get myself
Speaker 1: out of my problem. Meanwhile, back on the Cayman Islands,
Speaker 1: Lee Rich Mister Beach Club was left to clean up
Speaker 1: the mess. He now had to juggle it all, smuggling,
Speaker 1: money laundering and just trying to stay out of jail
Speaker 1: all the while Ned was just one step behind him.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Ned starts to connect the dots,
Speaker 1: and so does the CIA. It takes Ned a little
Speaker 1: while to piece it all together because at first, when
Speaker 1: Lee mentioned the general down and came in, Ned was
Speaker 1: just confused. I had no idea if that's talking about
Speaker 1: Columbia or or you know who where. But then Ned
Speaker 1: recalled another clue that Lee had dropped a couple days later.
Speaker 1: He referred to him as old pineapple face. Pineapple face,
Speaker 1: that's what did it. Eventually Ned realizes who this must be.
Speaker 1: He didn't know all the details or politics surrounding Noriega,
Speaker 1: but he knew enough. Noriega was the CIA's boy into
Speaker 1: Castro and into the Russians big boys club. Okay. Ned
Speaker 1: worried that his discovery would stir up trouble in a
Speaker 1: big way. And the CIA, in my mind, really didn't
Speaker 1: give a shit about drugs or what was going on.
Speaker 1: They're focused on their mission, which was intelligence and the
Speaker 1: big picture. By exposing Noriega as a bad guy, Ned
Speaker 1: would be interfering with the CIA's mission, and that's not
Speaker 1: something Ned wanted to do. He was already pretty worn out. Remember,
Speaker 1: he had just returned home from a stressful time down
Speaker 1: in the Caymans, and now he had a new potential enemy,
Speaker 1: the CIA. He began imagining how this all might play out.
Speaker 1: CIA always has contract people that worked for them. They'll
Speaker 1: kill you, and I didn't trust them. I was constantly
Speaker 1: leary of them. A bit paranoid maybe, but his worries
Speaker 1: about pissing off the CIA were well founded. Over the years,
Speaker 1: Noriega had worked hard to cultivate an image as an
Speaker 1: ally in the US War on drugs. These efforts got
Speaker 1: him friends in Washington. Noriega had a whole stack of
Speaker 1: letters from his US admirers, like one from the U. S.
Speaker 1: Attorney General written in nineteen eighty four, which said, thank
Speaker 1: you for your continued support and our mutual efforts to
Speaker 1: suppress illicit drug trafficking and to ensure a safer and
Speaker 1: healthier environment for all of our citizens. So if this
Speaker 1: got out that Noriega was in fact at the very
Speaker 1: top of this massive drug smuggling operation, well that'd be
Speaker 1: a huge embarrassment to the American government at large. The
Speaker 1: CIA did eventually get wind of Ned's investigation. At some
Speaker 1: point they contacted another FBI agent who worked closely with NED.
Speaker 1: I spoke with this agent. He's now retired, but still,
Speaker 1: even all these years later, he didn't want to go
Speaker 1: on the record. He told me that two CIA agents
Speaker 1: invited him to lunch and then very casually started asking
Speaker 1: him questions. It's about Noriega. He understood immediately what was
Speaker 1: going on. They wanted to suss out what the FBI
Speaker 1: knew about Noriega. They were apparently concerned because he was
Speaker 1: their asset. The agent told me he managed to brush
Speaker 1: off the CIA guys. But soon enough all of this
Speaker 1: would come to a head. After two stints down in
Speaker 1: the Canens, Ned eventually goes back home to Detroit to
Speaker 1: his wife, Kathy Timmins. He was beat. At this point.
Speaker 1: He'd been working on the case for about three years.
Speaker 1: During that time, he'd been living as two people, Ed
Speaker 1: and Ned, switching back and forth again and again until
Speaker 1: even in his own mind, it all kind of got jumbled.
Speaker 1: Cathy said. Ned sometimes confided in her that he felt
Speaker 1: trapped stuck in the role of undercover agent, but that
Speaker 1: he also couldn't imagine returning the life of a regular agent.
Speaker 1: And he said, you know, I just I can't go back.
Speaker 1: I don't think I can go back to just you know,
Speaker 1: working cases in this man. I said, of course you can,
Speaker 1: and He's like, no, I don't think I can. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was looking at these pizza places. I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to run pizza places. I'm
Speaker 1: an FBI agent, you know. Cathy says. Ned actually drove
Speaker 1: them over to a pizza parlor that he had his
Speaker 1: eyes on. He pulled into the parking lot and I
Speaker 1: mean I never even got out of the car, I
Speaker 1: said Ned. I'm not going to going to the pizza
Speaker 1: business like stop. Strangely, when I mentioned all of this
Speaker 1: to Ned, the plan to open the pizza shop, the
Speaker 1: conversation with Kathy, his desire to get out, he didn't
Speaker 1: remember it, any of it. I have no recollection of
Speaker 1: a pizzeria or any interest in a pizzeria. I have
Speaker 1: no idea you have no memory of that. No, Ned
Speaker 1: did acknowledge that he knew Kathy felt frustrated and concerned
Speaker 1: that his undercover life was getting out of control. Role Kathleen,
Speaker 1: may you know, I mean, she's very smart, and she's
Speaker 1: very credible. You know, he has been. And if that's
Speaker 1: what she remembers, that's what she remembers. And that's pretty
Speaker 1: much all I got from him. If what Kathy said
Speaker 1: was true, then it was almost like he'd gone back
Speaker 1: and edited his own memories, removed the moments of doubt
Speaker 1: and frailty that didn't fit into the hard boiled detective narrative,
Speaker 1: almost like he and the ghostwriter had done in the novel.
Speaker 1: In many ways, Ned and Kathy seemed to exist in
Speaker 1: two parallel but entirely separate realities, and perhaps the ultimate
Speaker 1: example of this involves an incident that occurred a few
Speaker 1: months after Ned got back from the Caymans, when both
Speaker 1: of their lives came to a screeching halt. For Kathy,
Speaker 1: it all began at the firing range. She was there
Speaker 1: doing some target practice when she heard an announcement. They
Speaker 1: called out from the tower for me, you know, get
Speaker 1: off the firing line, and they said, oh, come on,
Speaker 1: you got to go with us, got to take you home.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh my god, what happened. Her colleagues
Speaker 1: who came to get her, laid it all out that
Speaker 1: Ned's undercover identity had been compromised, and that someone in
Speaker 1: that motorcycle group had a meeting, and that they had
Speaker 1: put a hit on Ned and they were going to
Speaker 1: lure him to a location and give him a hot
Speaker 1: shot of drugs and kill him, and that they also
Speaker 1: knew where we lived. They escorted her home so she
Speaker 1: could pick up some stuff. By the time I arrived home,
Speaker 1: I mean, the swat team was all, you know, hanging
Speaker 1: out around the house and inside the house, and Ned
Speaker 1: was in there packing and then we just like I said,
Speaker 1: we packed up. We got in the car and we
Speaker 1: started heading up north. So Ned and Cathy had to
Speaker 1: be exfiltrated, whisked away immediately because they were in grave danger.
Speaker 1: That was Kathy's reality. Now. I also talked to Ned
Speaker 1: about what happened. What is going through your head as
Speaker 1: they stand on your doorstep and say you've got to
Speaker 1: leave your house. Well, I had him in and had
Speaker 1: coffee with him. Ned listens to the agents and realizes
Speaker 1: he has to flee his home. He said, okay, perfect
Speaker 1: me and all my one of my best friends has
Speaker 1: got to lodge in northern Michigan and the salmon fishing
Speaker 1: is hot, and I'll go there. You seem pretty like
Speaker 1: blase or kind of unruffled by this. A lot of
Speaker 1: people have threatened to kill me, so it's part of
Speaker 1: the turf. Eventually they get up to a little house
Speaker 1: way up in northern Michigan. No one is around, and
Speaker 1: all they can really do is hope the FBI finds
Speaker 1: the biker guys who were out to kill Ned. They
Speaker 1: just wait for the call, the call that tells them
Speaker 1: it's okay, we've got them. You can come home now.
Speaker 1: As Kathy recalls it, the time up there was tense.
Speaker 1: Ned's initial blase attitude apparently didn't last he's left just
Speaker 1: to stew in his own thoughts because everything has finally stopped,
Speaker 1: and in its absence, the anxiety just pours in like
Speaker 1: a damn had broken. He was drinking just so hard.
Speaker 1: He was a nervous like not nervous like oh I'm scared,
Speaker 1: nervous like I could see that. You know. He wasn't
Speaker 1: getting enough sleep, he wasn't his nerves run ends. Kathy
Speaker 1: wasn't certain what to do, and so I was always
Speaker 1: wary of saying too much or pushing too much back
Speaker 1: because I didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to go to his supervisor and say, you know, with
Speaker 1: the whole kind of oversight, is this you know you
Speaker 1: need to pull him in just for a second. Were
Speaker 1: you not doing that out of a sense of loyalty
Speaker 1: to him? What was what? Why not? Why didn't you
Speaker 1: go to the supervisor and say, like, hey, well, because
Speaker 1: he was my husband, Um, you know I loved him.
Speaker 1: I kept telling him you need to stop, just that
Speaker 1: that this has got to stop, that all of this
Speaker 1: intrusion into our personal lives has to stop. This is crazy.
Speaker 1: Here we are up in northern Michigan for weeks on
Speaker 1: end with nothing to do, waiting for phone calls. You
Speaker 1: know this, This is not any kind of a life
Speaker 1: that I want to lead, And this isn't what any
Speaker 1: of us signed up for. Next time and deep Cover,
Speaker 1: did I sit down, I have lunch or dinner with him? No? Okay,
Speaker 1: I just I was aware of him. I was very
Speaker 1: aware of him. I remember the day that that timms
Speaker 1: I ever got involved with me. I wish I had
Speaker 1: never heard my name. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob
Speaker 1: Smith and edited by Karen Shakerge. Our story editor is
Speaker 1: Jack hit. Original music and our theme was composed by
Speaker 1: Luis Gara and Flawn Williams is our engineer. Fact checking
Speaker 1: by Amy Gaines. Mia Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's
Speaker 1: novel is read by Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton,
Speaker 1: Heather Faine, Carly mcgliori, Leta Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler,
Speaker 1: Aggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, Zoe Gwen and Jacob Weisberg at
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment.
Speaker 1: I'm Jake Albern