1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:26,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on deep cover. During the late spring of 2 00:00:26,596 --> 00:00:30,676 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, FBI agent Ned Timmins was deep undercover 3 00:00:30,756 --> 00:00:33,876 Speaker 1: in the Cayman Islands. His goal was to spy on 4 00:00:33,996 --> 00:00:37,676 Speaker 1: Lee Rich, the kingpin of the drug syndicate. As he 5 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:41,156 Speaker 1: got closer to Lee and deeper into this world, he 6 00:00:41,236 --> 00:00:48,156 Speaker 1: became increasingly worried. The stress is unbelievable. There's no backup. 7 00:00:48,356 --> 00:00:50,276 Speaker 1: You're not gonna really hit the radio and call nine 8 00:00:50,316 --> 00:00:52,916 Speaker 1: on one. You're nine. You're not gonna be able to 9 00:00:52,956 --> 00:00:58,516 Speaker 1: call for help because nobody's coming. Meanwhile, Lee had problems 10 00:00:58,516 --> 00:01:02,316 Speaker 1: of his own. He worried that the FEDS were watching him, 11 00:01:02,356 --> 00:01:05,396 Speaker 1: and to complicate matters, he says, his go to bank 12 00:01:05,436 --> 00:01:16,316 Speaker 1: in the Caymans was no longer accepting his money for 13 00:01:16,396 --> 00:01:19,836 Speaker 1: Ned Timmins. Being undercover and the Caymans meant hanging out 14 00:01:19,916 --> 00:01:22,756 Speaker 1: with Lee Rich's guys. He'd chill out on the beach 15 00:01:23,116 --> 00:01:26,756 Speaker 1: or at the club and listen for clues. Well, I 16 00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:31,716 Speaker 1: usually was given something to do, you know, oversee the barbecues, 17 00:01:31,796 --> 00:01:34,156 Speaker 1: or make sure there was no trouble at the bar 18 00:01:34,276 --> 00:01:37,036 Speaker 1: with any of the guests. Not exactly the stuff of 19 00:01:37,076 --> 00:01:41,236 Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes, but ned couldn't ask questions really because that 20 00:01:41,276 --> 00:01:44,396 Speaker 1: would draw suspicions give him away as a narc. So 21 00:01:44,676 --> 00:01:48,116 Speaker 1: he just kept on listening. And then one day Lee 22 00:01:48,156 --> 00:01:51,876 Speaker 1: made a cryptic reference to someone apparently in the organization 23 00:01:52,356 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 1: called the general, and I just okay, not knowing general 24 00:01:58,236 --> 00:02:01,796 Speaker 1: of what or general who or whatever, and does your 25 00:02:01,796 --> 00:02:05,156 Speaker 1: whole thing is don't ask questions exactly. You start asking 26 00:02:05,236 --> 00:02:09,356 Speaker 1: questions and people get suspicious. But what's your react action 27 00:02:09,436 --> 00:02:18,396 Speaker 1: to that? Oh? Actually, in the middle of this, they 28 00:02:18,436 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 1: realized that I had never been to Advanced Undercover School 29 00:02:21,676 --> 00:02:25,836 Speaker 1: at Quantico, which is two week school. And I got 30 00:02:25,916 --> 00:02:29,036 Speaker 1: orders and they go, oh, you haven't been to Advanced 31 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 1: undercover school. You got to go to that. It seemed 32 00:02:31,836 --> 00:02:34,316 Speaker 1: like this was the equivalent of a fireman getting called 33 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:36,956 Speaker 1: out of a burning building to take a refresher class 34 00:02:36,996 --> 00:02:40,076 Speaker 1: on how to use a hose. But this was part 35 00:02:40,116 --> 00:02:43,076 Speaker 1: of a relatively new effort by the FBI to rain 36 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:47,356 Speaker 1: in and standardize it's undercover practices. So I had to 37 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:49,476 Speaker 1: make up a story to Lee. I can't remember whether 38 00:02:49,596 --> 00:02:51,076 Speaker 1: made up something that I had to go someplace or 39 00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:54,996 Speaker 1: two weeks. So I go back to Quantico and go 40 00:02:55,076 --> 00:02:58,596 Speaker 1: through Advanced undercover school. You know that's the rules. Whatever. 41 00:02:59,436 --> 00:03:03,476 Speaker 1: What did you learn an advanced undercover school? I don't remember. 42 00:03:04,396 --> 00:03:06,596 Speaker 1: You know what to do and what not to do 43 00:03:06,676 --> 00:03:11,636 Speaker 1: and whatever. So not especially interested in his class work, 44 00:03:11,716 --> 00:03:15,516 Speaker 1: it seems, and perhaps that's because his thoughts were still 45 00:03:15,556 --> 00:03:20,116 Speaker 1: back in the Caymans. That comment about the General he 46 00:03:20,236 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 1: got him thinking. Was this just some stupid nickname or 47 00:03:24,876 --> 00:03:29,236 Speaker 1: was Lee talking about an actual general? Was it possible 48 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:33,876 Speaker 1: that there was someone above Lee. That's just the mindset 49 00:03:33,876 --> 00:03:35,876 Speaker 1: of the FBI. We're going to work this up right 50 00:03:35,876 --> 00:03:38,236 Speaker 1: to the top, just like the mafia. We're going to 51 00:03:38,276 --> 00:03:40,716 Speaker 1: go after the dis We're going to go to the 52 00:03:40,756 --> 00:03:43,636 Speaker 1: top of the food chain and crime. Our objective is 53 00:03:43,676 --> 00:03:46,116 Speaker 1: to work up and kill the head of the snake. 54 00:03:52,476 --> 00:03:57,676 Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halpern and this is Deep Cover Episode six. 55 00:03:58,196 --> 00:04:27,436 Speaker 1: The silent partner. Ned didn't know it at the time, 56 00:04:27,756 --> 00:04:30,356 Speaker 1: but the general that Lee was talking about, and the 57 00:04:30,436 --> 00:04:34,836 Speaker 1: revelation of who he really was would change everything in 58 00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:38,916 Speaker 1: this investigation. And the story of the General really begins 59 00:04:39,156 --> 00:04:42,916 Speaker 1: about two years earlier. So we're going to turn back 60 00:04:42,996 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 1: the clock to September of nineteen eighty three. At this point, 61 00:04:49,596 --> 00:04:52,476 Speaker 1: Ned is still hanging out in biker bars in Detroit. 62 00:04:53,236 --> 00:04:56,236 Speaker 1: Lee Rich, mister beach Club if you will, is still 63 00:04:56,276 --> 00:04:59,476 Speaker 1: living the high life in the Caymans, and Stephen Kaylish, 64 00:04:59,556 --> 00:05:04,836 Speaker 1: the gentleman smuggler, has not yet been arrested. Everything's going 65 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:09,596 Speaker 1: great for these guys except for one thing, their money laundering. 66 00:05:10,636 --> 00:05:13,116 Speaker 1: Le's go to bank in the Caymans, the Bank of 67 00:05:13,196 --> 00:05:17,516 Speaker 1: Nova Scotia wasn't an option, So now Lee and Stephen 68 00:05:17,676 --> 00:05:21,036 Speaker 1: were looking for somewhere else to launder their money. At 69 00:05:21,036 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 1: the time, Stephen says, they were trying to move a 70 00:05:23,356 --> 00:05:27,076 Speaker 1: whole bunch of small bills about fifteen million dollars worth. 71 00:05:27,596 --> 00:05:29,436 Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of how much cash 72 00:05:29,476 --> 00:05:34,036 Speaker 1: that was, it weigh about sixteen hundred pounds, so a 73 00:05:34,196 --> 00:05:37,276 Speaker 1: lot of money. And now they had nowhere to put it. 74 00:05:37,596 --> 00:05:41,156 Speaker 1: So Lee and Stephen they start thinking about where else 75 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:47,436 Speaker 1: they could take their money and bank it well. The 76 00:05:47,556 --> 00:05:51,796 Speaker 1: other only other solid banking haven that I knew was 77 00:05:51,836 --> 00:05:56,636 Speaker 1: secure was Panama. In the early nineteen seventies, Panama more 78 00:05:56,716 --> 00:06:00,916 Speaker 1: or less deregulated banking, very little oversight now taxes on 79 00:06:00,956 --> 00:06:04,036 Speaker 1: foreign income, and by the time Stephen and Lee were 80 00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:06,716 Speaker 1: in their bind, lots of new banks had opened their 81 00:06:06,716 --> 00:06:11,916 Speaker 1: doors in Panama, which was enticing. Plus, Stephen liked Panama. 82 00:06:12,156 --> 00:06:15,356 Speaker 1: I don't a book report in the third grade about 83 00:06:15,396 --> 00:06:19,116 Speaker 1: the Panama Canal, so it had always held a special 84 00:06:19,156 --> 00:06:22,836 Speaker 1: place of my art. Stephen's summary of its history in 85 00:06:22,956 --> 00:06:27,276 Speaker 1: his third grade book report, it's basically right, the building 86 00:06:27,276 --> 00:06:30,476 Speaker 1: of the canal and the failures of the French I mean, 87 00:06:31,036 --> 00:06:34,556 Speaker 1: the whole way. Panama was actually became a country, you know, 88 00:06:35,116 --> 00:06:39,476 Speaker 1: stolen from Columbia, basically by the US. When Panama broke 89 00:06:39,516 --> 00:06:42,516 Speaker 1: away from Columbia in nineteen oh three, the United States 90 00:06:42,556 --> 00:06:45,596 Speaker 1: lent its support. Then the US signed a treaty with 91 00:06:45,636 --> 00:06:48,796 Speaker 1: Panama and took control of a zone about ten miles 92 00:06:48,796 --> 00:06:51,876 Speaker 1: wide and fifty miles long. There was a canal there, 93 00:06:52,116 --> 00:06:55,036 Speaker 1: or the start of one. Anyhow, the US completed it 94 00:06:55,236 --> 00:06:58,076 Speaker 1: and then stuck around to control that canal and you know, 95 00:06:58,436 --> 00:07:03,876 Speaker 1: cash in on it. So anyway, Panama had a lot 96 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:07,756 Speaker 1: of allure in Look, I've always been a risk taker, right, 97 00:07:08,556 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 1: and a guy with a good rolodex. Stephen eventually connects 98 00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:16,156 Speaker 1: with a guy named Caesar Rodriguez. He was a businessman 99 00:07:16,236 --> 00:07:19,676 Speaker 1: done in Panama with connections to the banking world. A 100 00:07:19,756 --> 00:07:23,196 Speaker 1: guy who could make things happen. So Stephen plans a visit. 101 00:07:23,516 --> 00:07:26,156 Speaker 1: He packs for the trip, you know, the usual change 102 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:29,156 Speaker 1: of clothes and about three million in cash stuffed into 103 00:07:29,196 --> 00:07:32,036 Speaker 1: some luggage. Then he flies down to Panama in a 104 00:07:32,076 --> 00:07:37,876 Speaker 1: private jet. He lands at the airport in Panama and 105 00:07:37,956 --> 00:07:40,876 Speaker 1: his contact, Caesar, is there to greet him in person. 106 00:07:41,116 --> 00:07:44,996 Speaker 1: He's a young guy, good looking, very friendly, speaks perfect English, 107 00:07:45,036 --> 00:07:48,556 Speaker 1: and he has not one but two stretch limos waiting 108 00:07:48,556 --> 00:07:51,116 Speaker 1: for them. They all head downtown to the Bank of 109 00:07:51,156 --> 00:07:54,556 Speaker 1: Boston building where Caesar operated a club and a big, 110 00:07:54,636 --> 00:07:59,596 Speaker 1: sprawling penthouse. I mean it's very posh, it's very tricked out. 111 00:07:59,996 --> 00:08:04,996 Speaker 1: There's a small little nightclub or restaurant, and Caesar tells Stephen, 112 00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:10,916 Speaker 1: we have a private club here but for Hali businessmen 113 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:15,676 Speaker 1: and certain military officials that come here for dining and 114 00:08:15,796 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 1: drinking and parting in a discreet environment. Later that night 115 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:25,676 Speaker 1: they sit down and have a meal. They're joined by 116 00:08:25,676 --> 00:08:31,316 Speaker 1: another guy named Enrique Protelt. Casar introduces Enrique as his partner, 117 00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:35,956 Speaker 1: and then very casually, Caesar starts to explain what exactly 118 00:08:36,036 --> 00:08:39,156 Speaker 1: he and Enrique do down here in Panama. In addition 119 00:08:39,196 --> 00:08:44,396 Speaker 1: to running the club, their financiers. Basically, they loan out money. 120 00:08:44,436 --> 00:08:48,076 Speaker 1: And they explain to me that they're Bank of Boston 121 00:08:48,196 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: Penalves and all their operations going on to Panama. We're 122 00:08:52,956 --> 00:08:57,636 Speaker 1: all run through their shell company that was owned by 123 00:08:57,756 --> 00:09:02,996 Speaker 1: three people. Enrique saysar in a silent third partner, and 124 00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:06,556 Speaker 1: I said really, I said okay, And they said, well, 125 00:09:06,716 --> 00:09:09,356 Speaker 1: what do you want to do in Panama? It's a 126 00:09:09,396 --> 00:09:13,036 Speaker 1: loaded question. Stephen is still not one hundred percent sure 127 00:09:13,116 --> 00:09:16,036 Speaker 1: whether he can really trust these guys. All I tell 128 00:09:16,116 --> 00:09:17,996 Speaker 1: him is I have millions of dollars I need to 129 00:09:18,036 --> 00:09:20,636 Speaker 1: bank in Panama, and I need to fly it in 130 00:09:20,716 --> 00:09:24,276 Speaker 1: from the US, and I need security at the airport 131 00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:28,396 Speaker 1: and secure banks. Caesar died in the eighties, so I 132 00:09:28,396 --> 00:09:32,596 Speaker 1: couldn't interview him, but according to Stephen, Caesar was very accommodating. 133 00:09:32,876 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 1: He tells Stephen, yes, we can definitely help you with that, 134 00:09:35,756 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: and to prove it, they take him to the Bank 135 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:42,396 Speaker 1: of Credit and Commerce International, well known then as BCCI 136 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:46,276 Speaker 1: to make the necessary introductions. Stephen wheels in his cash 137 00:09:46,316 --> 00:09:50,276 Speaker 1: and makes his deposits and there's no fee, no commission 138 00:09:50,356 --> 00:09:54,316 Speaker 1: or anything, just thank you for your business. Afterwards, they 139 00:09:54,316 --> 00:09:57,356 Speaker 1: do the same thing for him at another bank. It's 140 00:09:57,356 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 1: all going splendidly so far. The question is what does 141 00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:03,956 Speaker 1: Caesar and Enrique want from him? And the next day, 142 00:10:04,116 --> 00:10:07,756 Speaker 1: back at the Penthouse Club, Caesar makes his pitch. He 143 00:10:07,796 --> 00:10:10,356 Speaker 1: says he has a business that loans money to the 144 00:10:10,396 --> 00:10:14,116 Speaker 1: Panama Defense Forces. In fact, the military needs financing for 145 00:10:14,156 --> 00:10:17,756 Speaker 1: equipment a two point two million dollars helicopter, it turns out, 146 00:10:18,356 --> 00:10:22,356 Speaker 1: and maybe Stephen could front the money if you're interested. 147 00:10:22,436 --> 00:10:25,556 Speaker 1: You can make three hundred thousand dollars for setting up 148 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:28,876 Speaker 1: the financing, and then you can make ten percent interests 149 00:10:29,156 --> 00:10:32,876 Speaker 1: annually own that financing, and it'll be backed up by 150 00:10:32,956 --> 00:10:37,116 Speaker 1: a letter of credit from the Panamanian Defense Forces. Well, 151 00:10:37,116 --> 00:10:40,156 Speaker 1: I said, well that sounds good. You're basically loan sharking 152 00:10:40,196 --> 00:10:44,436 Speaker 1: money to the Panamanian military pretty much. They go on 153 00:10:44,516 --> 00:10:47,676 Speaker 1: to offer Stephen a twenty five percent stake in their business, 154 00:10:47,836 --> 00:10:52,116 Speaker 1: which includes the club and the loan sharking business. Stephen 155 00:10:52,196 --> 00:10:55,716 Speaker 1: pauses a beat and then asks, I go, okay, what's 156 00:10:55,756 --> 00:10:57,396 Speaker 1: the buy in? And they go four in a grand 157 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:01,516 Speaker 1: and I go okay, well, what's four in a grand 158 00:11:01,556 --> 00:11:04,956 Speaker 1: buy me? They go, well, there's only one catch. You 159 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:08,756 Speaker 1: got to meet our partner, and I go, well, who's 160 00:11:08,796 --> 00:11:14,356 Speaker 1: your ark And they go, oh, it's General Noriega. And 161 00:11:14,476 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 1: I go, okay, well who is General Noriega? And they 162 00:11:18,676 --> 00:11:22,716 Speaker 1: both look at each other like I'm stupid, and I go, look, guys, 163 00:11:24,076 --> 00:11:27,956 Speaker 1: you know, excuse me. I don't know how things work here, 164 00:11:27,996 --> 00:11:31,636 Speaker 1: so you got to explain it to me. So they explain. 165 00:11:32,356 --> 00:11:36,196 Speaker 1: Noriega is the strong man who currently controls Panama, and 166 00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 1: his story it goes like this. Manuel Noriega was born 167 00:11:41,756 --> 00:11:45,956 Speaker 1: in Panama City in nineteen thirty four. Abandoned by his parents, 168 00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:49,076 Speaker 1: he was raised by a woman called Mama Luisa, who 169 00:11:49,076 --> 00:11:52,076 Speaker 1: we referred to as his godmother. He was a smart kid, 170 00:11:52,396 --> 00:11:55,356 Speaker 1: gets into a really prestigious high school. But he's not 171 00:11:55,396 --> 00:11:58,716 Speaker 1: just smart. He's an operator. As a teenager, he joins 172 00:11:58,716 --> 00:12:02,756 Speaker 1: Panama's socialist youth party, goes to protests, and writes articles 173 00:12:02,756 --> 00:12:07,556 Speaker 1: criticizing Uncle Sam. Noriega goes onto a military academy in Peru. 174 00:12:07,916 --> 00:12:11,196 Speaker 1: He returns and joins the National Guard. He then rises 175 00:12:11,196 --> 00:12:14,236 Speaker 1: through the ranks, eventually becoming a general, and once he's 176 00:12:14,236 --> 00:12:18,436 Speaker 1: at the top, he maintains power brutally. All this time, 177 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:21,956 Speaker 1: he's developing a close relationship with the CIA. He quietly 178 00:12:21,996 --> 00:12:25,436 Speaker 1: supports the Contras, a right wing military group in Nicaragua. 179 00:12:25,556 --> 00:12:28,316 Speaker 1: He helps the d EA and the drug wars. He's 180 00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:31,756 Speaker 1: also close with Fidale Castro in Cuba. This is a 181 00:12:31,796 --> 00:12:35,156 Speaker 1: guy who plays all sides and all the while he 182 00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:38,356 Speaker 1: lines his own pockets and little business deals with the 183 00:12:38,436 --> 00:12:42,436 Speaker 1: likes of Caesar and Enrique. And at the club and 184 00:12:42,516 --> 00:12:47,236 Speaker 1: the penthouse overlooking Panama City, Caesar and Enrique tell Stephen, 185 00:12:47,676 --> 00:12:52,676 Speaker 1: you two can be part of our little partnership, but 186 00:12:52,836 --> 00:12:56,676 Speaker 1: you gotta meet Noriega first. And he's got a site 187 00:12:56,716 --> 00:13:02,036 Speaker 1: off only being part of the company. So I said, okay, well, 188 00:13:02,236 --> 00:13:08,956 Speaker 1: let's go met Noriega. So Caesa says, well, he might 189 00:13:09,876 --> 00:13:13,156 Speaker 1: take him our present, and I go, what do you 190 00:13:13,156 --> 00:13:17,236 Speaker 1: mean take him at present? He goes, well, you know, 191 00:13:18,036 --> 00:13:21,436 Speaker 1: as a sign of respect and a sign that you're 192 00:13:21,556 --> 00:13:26,316 Speaker 1: serious about learning the stay in Panama and dupists in Panama, 193 00:13:26,916 --> 00:13:31,916 Speaker 1: you might want to give him something of value. So 194 00:13:31,996 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: he stuffs three hundred thousand dollars in a briefcase and 195 00:13:35,316 --> 00:13:38,636 Speaker 1: heads over to Noriega's house. This would be just a 196 00:13:38,636 --> 00:13:41,836 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars gift, separate from the four hundred 197 00:13:41,956 --> 00:13:45,796 Speaker 1: K he'd already put in. It was like well a sweetener. 198 00:13:46,196 --> 00:13:49,316 Speaker 1: Stephen hoped that it would do the trick. When we 199 00:13:49,396 --> 00:14:07,396 Speaker 1: come back after the break, Stephen meets the general. So 200 00:14:07,996 --> 00:14:11,796 Speaker 1: Stephen Kayleish, the gentleman smuggler, you know, the hippie kid 201 00:14:11,836 --> 00:14:14,756 Speaker 1: from Texas. He gets a ride over to General Manuel 202 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:20,236 Speaker 1: Noriega's house with his briefcase filled with cash. Ah. We's 203 00:14:20,276 --> 00:14:24,196 Speaker 1: got high walls with ivory growing in, lots of military 204 00:14:24,236 --> 00:14:29,556 Speaker 1: personnel walking patrolling the area. It's a beautiful home. I'm 205 00:14:29,716 --> 00:14:33,076 Speaker 1: escorted in his office and I sit down and I 206 00:14:33,116 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 1: set the briefcase down next to his desk. Noriega is 207 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: dressed in his military uniform. His most unusual feature is 208 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:45,196 Speaker 1: the skin on his face, which is badly pockmarked. Some 209 00:14:45,236 --> 00:14:48,876 Speaker 1: people even called him a pineapple face, but always behind 210 00:14:48,876 --> 00:14:53,196 Speaker 1: his back, never ever to his face. To Stephen, he's 211 00:14:53,276 --> 00:14:57,796 Speaker 1: very friendly. They start chatting small talk, and eventually Noriega 212 00:14:57,836 --> 00:15:01,276 Speaker 1: asked him why he's in Panama, and Stephen kind of 213 00:15:01,316 --> 00:15:05,556 Speaker 1: boldly says, he's looking for a new home, place that 214 00:15:05,636 --> 00:15:09,516 Speaker 1: I can live in peace and quiet out I under 215 00:15:09,556 --> 00:15:13,756 Speaker 1: the prying eyes at the US cover month, I said, 216 00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:17,756 Speaker 1: I earn a lot of money, not interested in baying 217 00:15:17,916 --> 00:15:21,116 Speaker 1: US taxes, and I want to bank my money's in panamall. 218 00:15:22,156 --> 00:15:25,876 Speaker 1: According to Stephen, Riega quickly tells him not to worry. 219 00:15:26,076 --> 00:15:29,636 Speaker 1: He would personally look after Steven's needs and that was 220 00:15:29,716 --> 00:15:32,476 Speaker 1: kind of it. Stephen says, thank you, and he gets 221 00:15:32,556 --> 00:15:37,076 Speaker 1: up to leave without the briefcase. Noriega, noticing this, calls 222 00:15:37,116 --> 00:15:39,716 Speaker 1: after him. I turned around and said, no, it's pot 223 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:43,076 Speaker 1: a team, but I said it's for you, and he 224 00:15:43,156 --> 00:15:48,236 Speaker 1: goes looks at me, you know, pretty serious faith, and 225 00:15:48,436 --> 00:15:56,516 Speaker 1: I just smile. The gift goes over well. Stephen thought 226 00:15:56,516 --> 00:15:59,036 Speaker 1: he might make some money by joining this little partnership, 227 00:15:59,676 --> 00:16:03,116 Speaker 1: but he slowly realizes that what he'd really get was 228 00:16:03,156 --> 00:16:09,316 Speaker 1: an ally, a very powerful ally. Later on saysar it's 229 00:16:09,316 --> 00:16:12,356 Speaker 1: a call from Noriega. He wants Stephen to join them 230 00:16:12,356 --> 00:16:14,956 Speaker 1: at a private party that night at the offices of 231 00:16:14,996 --> 00:16:18,516 Speaker 1: the Panama Canal Company. We go to the offices, I 232 00:16:18,556 --> 00:16:22,676 Speaker 1: don't know, around six six thirty and it's like I'm 233 00:16:22,756 --> 00:16:26,876 Speaker 1: Noriega's best friend. I mean, when I show up, he 234 00:16:26,996 --> 00:16:30,716 Speaker 1: gives me an open embrace with both arms and says 235 00:16:30,836 --> 00:16:35,196 Speaker 1: that I'm welcome in Panama. And he'll make sure that 236 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 1: everything goes away. I wanted to go. The party is 237 00:16:43,556 --> 00:16:47,236 Speaker 1: mainly military people, a dozen or so colonels, a few majors, 238 00:16:47,516 --> 00:16:50,836 Speaker 1: and a bunch of beautiful women. Lots to eat and drink. 239 00:16:51,156 --> 00:16:55,716 Speaker 1: It's a scene that Stephen very much enjoys. At some point, 240 00:16:55,916 --> 00:16:59,756 Speaker 1: Noriega offers to show him around. Noriega takes me to 241 00:16:59,876 --> 00:17:03,876 Speaker 1: his own office, and it's this beautiful office that overlooks 242 00:17:04,316 --> 00:17:10,076 Speaker 1: with picture windows overlooking the Panama Canal. Noriega goes back 243 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:13,756 Speaker 1: to the party and closes the door to his office 244 00:17:13,796 --> 00:17:17,676 Speaker 1: and leads me sitting at his desk watching ships go 245 00:17:17,836 --> 00:17:21,396 Speaker 1: by in the Bantama Canal, thinking about that third grade 246 00:17:21,516 --> 00:17:26,716 Speaker 1: report I wrote, making out line to Cocaine no Noriega's 247 00:17:26,756 --> 00:17:32,996 Speaker 1: desk and storming the lines right, thinking okay, I think 248 00:17:32,996 --> 00:17:40,556 Speaker 1: Panama is going to work out just fine. And it did. 249 00:17:41,116 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 1: Steven soon returned to Panama with another couple million dollars 250 00:17:44,476 --> 00:17:48,156 Speaker 1: and per Noriega's instructions, landed at his air Force base 251 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:52,196 Speaker 1: and there was no customs, there was no immigration, there 252 00:17:52,276 --> 00:17:55,836 Speaker 1: was no inspection of anything. Our jet taxied over to 253 00:17:55,836 --> 00:17:59,916 Speaker 1: the air Force base and every day had literally climbed 254 00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:03,356 Speaker 1: out of the plane into the limousine they'd off Were 255 00:18:03,356 --> 00:18:08,236 Speaker 1: you with? In time, Stephen manages to get multiple Panamanian passports, 256 00:18:08,356 --> 00:18:12,716 Speaker 1: including a diplomatic passport. It was a money launderer's dream, 257 00:18:13,116 --> 00:18:16,316 Speaker 1: especially for Stephen, who was still a fugitive for his 258 00:18:16,556 --> 00:18:19,596 Speaker 1: entire adult life. Stephen Kayliss had been running from and 259 00:18:19,676 --> 00:18:23,036 Speaker 1: evading the law, and now he was protected by a 260 00:18:23,076 --> 00:18:28,476 Speaker 1: man who was seemingly above the law. Stephen was untouchable. 261 00:18:29,316 --> 00:18:33,596 Speaker 1: For me, it was not enough. I mean I wanted more, because, 262 00:18:33,636 --> 00:18:39,116 Speaker 1: if you know, the evolution from having money becomes having power, 263 00:18:40,356 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 1: and Panama was an opportunity to have power, real power. 264 00:18:46,156 --> 00:18:49,836 Speaker 1: So I asked myself what it would take, you know, 265 00:18:49,876 --> 00:18:52,916 Speaker 1: what's it going to take for Noriega to really to 266 00:18:53,036 --> 00:18:58,116 Speaker 1: trust me and for me to solidify this relationship. So 267 00:18:58,236 --> 00:19:00,716 Speaker 1: next Stephen makes it his goal to get closer to 268 00:19:00,796 --> 00:19:05,396 Speaker 1: Noriega literally, or I want to find home, you know, 269 00:19:05,476 --> 00:19:10,436 Speaker 1: in close proximity, you know, and close proximity to what 270 00:19:10,676 --> 00:19:12,596 Speaker 1: I mean? Are you actively thinking I want to become 271 00:19:12,636 --> 00:19:17,076 Speaker 1: Noriega's neighbor, Well, I want to live in the same area. Yeah, 272 00:19:17,116 --> 00:19:19,996 Speaker 1: And he does it. Within months of their first meeting. 273 00:19:20,116 --> 00:19:23,596 Speaker 1: Stephen finds a house just three blocks away from Noriega, 274 00:19:23,636 --> 00:19:27,436 Speaker 1: and the relationship just grows from there. Stephen introduces him 275 00:19:27,476 --> 00:19:31,596 Speaker 1: to women, wrangles an invitation to Noriega's ranch, even gets 276 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:34,276 Speaker 1: the general to stations soldiers outside of his house to 277 00:19:34,316 --> 00:19:38,636 Speaker 1: stand guard, And when Noriega gets invited to Washington, DC 278 00:19:38,956 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: in November of nineteen eighty three for an official visit, 279 00:19:42,236 --> 00:19:45,356 Speaker 1: Stephen loans him his personal jet to use while he's 280 00:19:45,356 --> 00:19:50,316 Speaker 1: in the US. On this visit, he met with a 281 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:54,316 Speaker 1: host of top level US officials, including the Secretary of Defense. 282 00:19:54,876 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 1: He also met with William Casey, the director of the CIA. 283 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:03,196 Speaker 1: Noriega described their meeting as a leisurely four hour lunch. 284 00:20:03,756 --> 00:20:06,516 Speaker 1: In his memoir, he wrote, I had been the US 285 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:09,916 Speaker 1: contact person throughout the nineteen seventies. I was well known 286 00:20:09,956 --> 00:20:13,596 Speaker 1: to everyone in the CIA. Now with Casey, the relations 287 00:20:13,636 --> 00:20:17,836 Speaker 1: would become tighter. After his time in DC, Noriega took 288 00:20:17,836 --> 00:20:21,196 Speaker 1: Stephen's jet to Las Vegas, where he shopped, drank, and 289 00:20:21,276 --> 00:20:26,076 Speaker 1: played Roulette. Then we came back to panamall well. He 290 00:20:26,156 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 1: insisted that ip it is receiving line when he was 291 00:20:30,236 --> 00:20:34,436 Speaker 1: returning to panamall right, so I'm waiting in line as 292 00:20:34,436 --> 00:20:38,276 Speaker 1: he getting off of my jap. Stephen says that Noriega 293 00:20:38,356 --> 00:20:41,076 Speaker 1: makes his way down the receiving line and then stops. 294 00:20:41,076 --> 00:20:43,836 Speaker 1: When he gets to Stephen. They have a quick chat. 295 00:20:44,196 --> 00:20:47,436 Speaker 1: Noriega says, the US wants him to do two things. 296 00:20:47,956 --> 00:20:52,316 Speaker 1: One keep helping the Contras, that right wing militia in Nicaragua, 297 00:20:52,396 --> 00:20:56,076 Speaker 1: and two open up the banks in Panama for inspection. 298 00:20:56,876 --> 00:21:01,316 Speaker 1: Stephen was hanging on Noriega's every word. Inspections would mean 299 00:21:01,356 --> 00:21:05,116 Speaker 1: trouble for him, but Noriega puts his fears to rest. 300 00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:08,876 Speaker 1: He goes, I don't remind help him with a contras. 301 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:14,356 Speaker 1: I'd never opened the banks. Stephen let that sink in. 302 00:21:14,956 --> 00:21:17,796 Speaker 1: The top power brokers in the US wanted to clean 303 00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:21,996 Speaker 1: up Panama's banking sector, which would ruin Stephen's money laundering scheme, 304 00:21:22,316 --> 00:21:27,116 Speaker 1: and Noriega says he rebuffed them, told them no. This 305 00:21:27,236 --> 00:21:30,956 Speaker 1: is all according to Stephen. In Noriega's memoir, he doesn't 306 00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 1: mention meeting Kaylish, making this deal, or using his plane, 307 00:21:34,836 --> 00:21:37,356 Speaker 1: But then again, why would he. This is not the 308 00:21:37,436 --> 00:21:40,636 Speaker 1: kind of relationship you want to advertise. In any case, 309 00:21:40,956 --> 00:21:46,436 Speaker 1: Stephen was pleased. I'm thinking this is what power looks like. 310 00:21:46,876 --> 00:21:50,396 Speaker 1: I've never felt safe in my life. I have this 311 00:21:51,036 --> 00:21:55,556 Speaker 1: great home, I have great staff, I got military guards 312 00:21:55,556 --> 00:21:59,996 Speaker 1: outside my house. You know, I feel pretty untouchable at 313 00:22:00,036 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 1: the moment. Stephen soon began planning a four hundred thousand 314 00:22:04,236 --> 00:22:07,956 Speaker 1: pound load destined for New York City, disguised as a 315 00:22:07,996 --> 00:22:13,076 Speaker 1: shipment of plantation hanes from Panama. So it's full steam ahead. 316 00:22:14,396 --> 00:22:17,836 Speaker 1: As a token of his gratitude, Stephen started lavishing Noriega 317 00:22:17,876 --> 00:22:20,676 Speaker 1: with gifts. But what exactly do you buy for the 318 00:22:20,676 --> 00:22:24,276 Speaker 1: dictator who's got everything? Stephen starts by giving him two 319 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:29,076 Speaker 1: gold plated rifles and some ivory handled pistols collector's pieces 320 00:22:29,156 --> 00:22:32,996 Speaker 1: worth in total about thirty thousand dollars. But he was 321 00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:38,956 Speaker 1: just getting started. I bought Noriega a presidential plane. I 322 00:22:39,036 --> 00:22:41,876 Speaker 1: actually paid the millions of dollars for it and got 323 00:22:41,916 --> 00:22:44,556 Speaker 1: a letter of credit from the Panamanian government for it. 324 00:22:45,356 --> 00:22:48,116 Speaker 1: Just to be clear here, what Stephen really did was 325 00:22:48,156 --> 00:22:52,436 Speaker 1: provide the financing. Nonetheless, it was a grand gesture, and 326 00:22:52,556 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 1: naturally he had an ulterior motive. Stephen just wanted a 327 00:22:56,516 --> 00:23:00,436 Speaker 1: small favor to occasionally have his plane fly to Washington, 328 00:23:00,476 --> 00:23:02,996 Speaker 1: d C. Where Steven's guys would load it up with 329 00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:06,596 Speaker 1: some trunks of drug money marked with diplomatic seals. The 330 00:23:06,716 --> 00:23:09,756 Speaker 1: seals would mean no one could open them. In return, 331 00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:13,956 Speaker 1: Noriega would get a cut. According to Stephen, Noriega agreed. 332 00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:20,836 Speaker 1: At this point. You may be wondering what happened to 333 00:23:20,956 --> 00:23:25,236 Speaker 1: Lee Rich mister beach club. Wasn't he the guy in charge. 334 00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:28,596 Speaker 1: He did make at least one trip to Panama with Stephen, 335 00:23:28,996 --> 00:23:32,836 Speaker 1: But this whole Panama thing, it was Steven's baby, and 336 00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:37,076 Speaker 1: once Stephen was buddy buddy with Noriega, everything began to change. 337 00:23:37,516 --> 00:23:41,716 Speaker 1: Stephen was now handling the smuggling and the financing. Lee 338 00:23:41,836 --> 00:23:45,076 Speaker 1: wasn't entirely comfortable with this arrangement, but there wasn't a 339 00:23:45,076 --> 00:23:47,876 Speaker 1: lot he could do about it. They needed Noriega now. 340 00:23:48,876 --> 00:23:51,956 Speaker 1: As for Stephen, who'd been a fugitive for years, he 341 00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:55,356 Speaker 1: finally felt like you could breathe a bit easier. He 342 00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:58,156 Speaker 1: didn't need the Canons or the US for that matter. 343 00:23:58,516 --> 00:24:02,596 Speaker 1: He could just chill in Panama. But he was still 344 00:24:02,676 --> 00:24:06,796 Speaker 1: handling the logistics for his massive op America's heartland. There 345 00:24:06,796 --> 00:24:08,876 Speaker 1: were a few things he still had to do, like 346 00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:13,036 Speaker 1: closing down his safe house in Tampa, so he returned stateside, 347 00:24:13,316 --> 00:24:16,276 Speaker 1: and that's when the FEDS nabbed him. This was the 348 00:24:16,276 --> 00:24:18,676 Speaker 1: big arrest at the airport in Tampa that we told 349 00:24:18,676 --> 00:24:23,156 Speaker 1: you about an episode four. So when I finally did 350 00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:26,996 Speaker 1: get arrested, I figured, well, maybe I'll figure this out somehow. 351 00:24:27,036 --> 00:24:30,596 Speaker 1: And I had millions of dollars stashed in panamall and 352 00:24:32,276 --> 00:24:36,516 Speaker 1: so they was from that day four. Then I started 353 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 1: working on a way how to get up get myself 354 00:24:38,836 --> 00:24:44,196 Speaker 1: out of my problem. Meanwhile, back on the Cayman Islands, 355 00:24:44,436 --> 00:24:47,236 Speaker 1: Lee Rich Mister Beach Club was left to clean up 356 00:24:47,236 --> 00:24:50,316 Speaker 1: the mess. He now had to juggle it all, smuggling, 357 00:24:50,436 --> 00:24:52,796 Speaker 1: money laundering and just trying to stay out of jail 358 00:24:53,876 --> 00:24:57,996 Speaker 1: all the while Ned was just one step behind him. 359 00:24:58,076 --> 00:25:01,276 Speaker 1: When we come back, Ned starts to connect the dots, 360 00:25:01,836 --> 00:25:20,636 Speaker 1: and so does the CIA. It takes Ned a little 361 00:25:20,636 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 1: while to piece it all together because at first, when 362 00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:26,956 Speaker 1: Lee mentioned the general down and came in, Ned was 363 00:25:26,996 --> 00:25:30,036 Speaker 1: just confused. I had no idea if that's talking about 364 00:25:30,076 --> 00:25:35,036 Speaker 1: Columbia or or you know who where. But then Ned 365 00:25:35,036 --> 00:25:38,796 Speaker 1: recalled another clue that Lee had dropped a couple days later. 366 00:25:39,476 --> 00:25:42,996 Speaker 1: He referred to him as old pineapple face. Pineapple face, 367 00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:47,276 Speaker 1: that's what did it. Eventually Ned realizes who this must be. 368 00:25:48,076 --> 00:25:51,676 Speaker 1: He didn't know all the details or politics surrounding Noriega, 369 00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:57,436 Speaker 1: but he knew enough. Noriega was the CIA's boy into 370 00:25:57,476 --> 00:26:02,916 Speaker 1: Castro and into the Russians big boys club. Okay. Ned 371 00:26:02,956 --> 00:26:05,876 Speaker 1: worried that his discovery would stir up trouble in a 372 00:26:05,956 --> 00:26:11,516 Speaker 1: big way. And the CIA, in my mind, really didn't 373 00:26:11,556 --> 00:26:14,556 Speaker 1: give a shit about drugs or what was going on. 374 00:26:14,596 --> 00:26:20,156 Speaker 1: They're focused on their mission, which was intelligence and the 375 00:26:20,236 --> 00:26:25,196 Speaker 1: big picture. By exposing Noriega as a bad guy, Ned 376 00:26:25,236 --> 00:26:28,516 Speaker 1: would be interfering with the CIA's mission, and that's not 377 00:26:28,636 --> 00:26:32,356 Speaker 1: something Ned wanted to do. He was already pretty worn out. Remember, 378 00:26:32,516 --> 00:26:35,196 Speaker 1: he had just returned home from a stressful time down 379 00:26:35,196 --> 00:26:38,716 Speaker 1: in the Caymans, and now he had a new potential enemy, 380 00:26:39,116 --> 00:26:43,076 Speaker 1: the CIA. He began imagining how this all might play out. 381 00:26:43,796 --> 00:26:48,756 Speaker 1: CIA always has contract people that worked for them. They'll 382 00:26:48,836 --> 00:26:53,476 Speaker 1: kill you, and I didn't trust them. I was constantly 383 00:26:54,276 --> 00:26:59,636 Speaker 1: leary of them. A bit paranoid maybe, but his worries 384 00:26:59,636 --> 00:27:03,636 Speaker 1: about pissing off the CIA were well founded. Over the years, 385 00:27:03,756 --> 00:27:06,716 Speaker 1: Noriega had worked hard to cultivate an image as an 386 00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:10,316 Speaker 1: ally in the US War on drugs. These efforts got 387 00:27:10,356 --> 00:27:13,596 Speaker 1: him friends in Washington. Noriega had a whole stack of 388 00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 1: letters from his US admirers, like one from the U. S. 389 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:21,076 Speaker 1: Attorney General written in nineteen eighty four, which said, thank 390 00:27:21,116 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 1: you for your continued support and our mutual efforts to 391 00:27:24,396 --> 00:27:28,196 Speaker 1: suppress illicit drug trafficking and to ensure a safer and 392 00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:33,516 Speaker 1: healthier environment for all of our citizens. So if this 393 00:27:33,556 --> 00:27:36,956 Speaker 1: got out that Noriega was in fact at the very 394 00:27:37,076 --> 00:27:41,036 Speaker 1: top of this massive drug smuggling operation, well that'd be 395 00:27:41,116 --> 00:27:45,636 Speaker 1: a huge embarrassment to the American government at large. The 396 00:27:45,796 --> 00:27:50,676 Speaker 1: CIA did eventually get wind of Ned's investigation. At some 397 00:27:50,756 --> 00:27:54,756 Speaker 1: point they contacted another FBI agent who worked closely with NED. 398 00:27:55,236 --> 00:27:58,556 Speaker 1: I spoke with this agent. He's now retired, but still, 399 00:27:58,796 --> 00:28:01,036 Speaker 1: even all these years later, he didn't want to go 400 00:28:01,076 --> 00:28:04,436 Speaker 1: on the record. He told me that two CIA agents 401 00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:08,396 Speaker 1: invited him to lunch and then very casually started asking 402 00:28:08,436 --> 00:28:12,596 Speaker 1: him questions. It's about Noriega. He understood immediately what was 403 00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:16,316 Speaker 1: going on. They wanted to suss out what the FBI 404 00:28:16,476 --> 00:28:20,596 Speaker 1: knew about Noriega. They were apparently concerned because he was 405 00:28:20,636 --> 00:28:23,956 Speaker 1: their asset. The agent told me he managed to brush 406 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:28,476 Speaker 1: off the CIA guys. But soon enough all of this 407 00:28:28,556 --> 00:28:37,356 Speaker 1: would come to a head. After two stints down in 408 00:28:37,436 --> 00:28:40,596 Speaker 1: the Canens, Ned eventually goes back home to Detroit to 409 00:28:40,676 --> 00:28:43,956 Speaker 1: his wife, Kathy Timmins. He was beat. At this point. 410 00:28:43,996 --> 00:28:46,436 Speaker 1: He'd been working on the case for about three years. 411 00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:49,996 Speaker 1: During that time, he'd been living as two people, Ed 412 00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:54,916 Speaker 1: and Ned, switching back and forth again and again until 413 00:28:55,156 --> 00:28:57,916 Speaker 1: even in his own mind, it all kind of got jumbled. 414 00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:02,076 Speaker 1: Cathy said. Ned sometimes confided in her that he felt 415 00:29:02,196 --> 00:29:05,716 Speaker 1: trapped stuck in the role of undercover agent, but that 416 00:29:05,796 --> 00:29:09,316 Speaker 1: he also couldn't imagine returning the life of a regular agent. 417 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:11,876 Speaker 1: And he said, you know, I just I can't go back. 418 00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:13,796 Speaker 1: I don't think I can go back to just you know, 419 00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:16,516 Speaker 1: working cases in this man. I said, of course you can, 420 00:29:16,876 --> 00:29:18,756 Speaker 1: and He's like, no, I don't think I can. And 421 00:29:18,916 --> 00:29:20,756 Speaker 1: you know, I was looking at these pizza places. I 422 00:29:20,796 --> 00:29:22,996 Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to run pizza places. I'm 423 00:29:23,036 --> 00:29:27,156 Speaker 1: an FBI agent, you know. Cathy says. Ned actually drove 424 00:29:27,196 --> 00:29:29,236 Speaker 1: them over to a pizza parlor that he had his 425 00:29:29,276 --> 00:29:31,796 Speaker 1: eyes on. He pulled into the parking lot and I 426 00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:33,436 Speaker 1: mean I never even got out of the car, I 427 00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:37,276 Speaker 1: said Ned. I'm not going to going to the pizza 428 00:29:37,356 --> 00:29:42,236 Speaker 1: business like stop. Strangely, when I mentioned all of this 429 00:29:42,316 --> 00:29:45,276 Speaker 1: to Ned, the plan to open the pizza shop, the 430 00:29:45,356 --> 00:29:49,316 Speaker 1: conversation with Kathy, his desire to get out, he didn't 431 00:29:49,316 --> 00:29:53,156 Speaker 1: remember it, any of it. I have no recollection of 432 00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:58,116 Speaker 1: a pizzeria or any interest in a pizzeria. I have 433 00:29:58,156 --> 00:30:03,036 Speaker 1: no idea you have no memory of that. No, Ned 434 00:30:03,076 --> 00:30:06,596 Speaker 1: did acknowledge that he knew Kathy felt frustrated and concerned 435 00:30:06,676 --> 00:30:10,676 Speaker 1: that his undercover life was getting out of control. Role Kathleen, 436 00:30:10,756 --> 00:30:14,396 Speaker 1: may you know, I mean, she's very smart, and she's 437 00:30:14,556 --> 00:30:17,916 Speaker 1: very credible. You know, he has been. And if that's 438 00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:22,076 Speaker 1: what she remembers, that's what she remembers. And that's pretty 439 00:30:22,116 --> 00:30:24,796 Speaker 1: much all I got from him. If what Kathy said 440 00:30:24,876 --> 00:30:27,756 Speaker 1: was true, then it was almost like he'd gone back 441 00:30:27,796 --> 00:30:31,596 Speaker 1: and edited his own memories, removed the moments of doubt 442 00:30:31,636 --> 00:30:35,556 Speaker 1: and frailty that didn't fit into the hard boiled detective narrative, 443 00:30:36,356 --> 00:30:39,436 Speaker 1: almost like he and the ghostwriter had done in the novel. 444 00:30:40,876 --> 00:30:43,636 Speaker 1: In many ways, Ned and Kathy seemed to exist in 445 00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:49,316 Speaker 1: two parallel but entirely separate realities, and perhaps the ultimate 446 00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:52,676 Speaker 1: example of this involves an incident that occurred a few 447 00:30:52,716 --> 00:30:56,076 Speaker 1: months after Ned got back from the Caymans, when both 448 00:30:56,076 --> 00:31:00,636 Speaker 1: of their lives came to a screeching halt. For Kathy, 449 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:03,316 Speaker 1: it all began at the firing range. She was there 450 00:31:03,436 --> 00:31:07,316 Speaker 1: doing some target practice when she heard an announcement. They 451 00:31:07,396 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 1: called out from the tower for me, you know, get 452 00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:13,756 Speaker 1: off the firing line, and they said, oh, come on, 453 00:31:13,796 --> 00:31:17,356 Speaker 1: you got to go with us, got to take you home. 454 00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:20,596 Speaker 1: And I said, oh my god, what happened. Her colleagues 455 00:31:20,596 --> 00:31:26,276 Speaker 1: who came to get her, laid it all out that 456 00:31:26,476 --> 00:31:31,956 Speaker 1: Ned's undercover identity had been compromised, and that someone in 457 00:31:31,996 --> 00:31:37,596 Speaker 1: that motorcycle group had a meeting, and that they had 458 00:31:37,876 --> 00:31:40,156 Speaker 1: put a hit on Ned and they were going to 459 00:31:40,276 --> 00:31:42,796 Speaker 1: lure him to a location and give him a hot 460 00:31:42,836 --> 00:31:49,156 Speaker 1: shot of drugs and kill him, and that they also 461 00:31:49,356 --> 00:31:54,876 Speaker 1: knew where we lived. They escorted her home so she 462 00:31:54,876 --> 00:31:58,396 Speaker 1: could pick up some stuff. By the time I arrived home, 463 00:31:58,436 --> 00:32:01,636 Speaker 1: I mean, the swat team was all, you know, hanging 464 00:32:01,676 --> 00:32:04,436 Speaker 1: out around the house and inside the house, and Ned 465 00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:08,436 Speaker 1: was in there packing and then we just like I said, 466 00:32:08,076 --> 00:32:11,236 Speaker 1: we packed up. We got in the car and we 467 00:32:11,316 --> 00:32:14,836 Speaker 1: started heading up north. So Ned and Cathy had to 468 00:32:14,876 --> 00:32:19,156 Speaker 1: be exfiltrated, whisked away immediately because they were in grave danger. 469 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:23,156 Speaker 1: That was Kathy's reality. Now. I also talked to Ned 470 00:32:23,196 --> 00:32:26,916 Speaker 1: about what happened. What is going through your head as 471 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:29,756 Speaker 1: they stand on your doorstep and say you've got to 472 00:32:29,836 --> 00:32:33,476 Speaker 1: leave your house. Well, I had him in and had 473 00:32:33,516 --> 00:32:39,036 Speaker 1: coffee with him. Ned listens to the agents and realizes 474 00:32:39,276 --> 00:32:42,996 Speaker 1: he has to flee his home. He said, okay, perfect 475 00:32:43,116 --> 00:32:45,796 Speaker 1: me and all my one of my best friends has 476 00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:48,396 Speaker 1: got to lodge in northern Michigan and the salmon fishing 477 00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:53,076 Speaker 1: is hot, and I'll go there. You seem pretty like 478 00:32:53,276 --> 00:32:57,356 Speaker 1: blase or kind of unruffled by this. A lot of 479 00:32:57,396 --> 00:33:00,716 Speaker 1: people have threatened to kill me, so it's part of 480 00:33:00,756 --> 00:33:04,356 Speaker 1: the turf. Eventually they get up to a little house 481 00:33:04,396 --> 00:33:07,676 Speaker 1: way up in northern Michigan. No one is around, and 482 00:33:07,796 --> 00:33:10,396 Speaker 1: all they can really do is hope the FBI finds 483 00:33:10,396 --> 00:33:13,636 Speaker 1: the biker guys who were out to kill Ned. They 484 00:33:13,676 --> 00:33:16,196 Speaker 1: just wait for the call, the call that tells them 485 00:33:16,196 --> 00:33:20,836 Speaker 1: it's okay, we've got them. You can come home now. 486 00:33:24,436 --> 00:33:27,356 Speaker 1: As Kathy recalls it, the time up there was tense. 487 00:33:27,956 --> 00:33:32,636 Speaker 1: Ned's initial blase attitude apparently didn't last he's left just 488 00:33:32,716 --> 00:33:37,636 Speaker 1: to stew in his own thoughts because everything has finally stopped, 489 00:33:38,156 --> 00:33:42,076 Speaker 1: and in its absence, the anxiety just pours in like 490 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:49,796 Speaker 1: a damn had broken. He was drinking just so hard. 491 00:33:50,996 --> 00:33:55,796 Speaker 1: He was a nervous like not nervous like oh I'm scared, 492 00:33:55,876 --> 00:33:59,636 Speaker 1: nervous like I could see that. You know. He wasn't 493 00:33:59,636 --> 00:34:04,836 Speaker 1: getting enough sleep, he wasn't his nerves run ends. Kathy 494 00:34:05,036 --> 00:34:08,756 Speaker 1: wasn't certain what to do, and so I was always 495 00:34:09,316 --> 00:34:14,036 Speaker 1: wary of saying too much or pushing too much back 496 00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:17,356 Speaker 1: because I didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want 497 00:34:17,356 --> 00:34:20,396 Speaker 1: to go to his supervisor and say, you know, with 498 00:34:20,436 --> 00:34:22,636 Speaker 1: the whole kind of oversight, is this you know you 499 00:34:22,676 --> 00:34:25,116 Speaker 1: need to pull him in just for a second. Were 500 00:34:25,116 --> 00:34:26,876 Speaker 1: you not doing that out of a sense of loyalty 501 00:34:26,876 --> 00:34:29,396 Speaker 1: to him? What was what? Why not? Why didn't you 502 00:34:29,476 --> 00:34:32,836 Speaker 1: go to the supervisor and say, like, hey, well, because 503 00:34:32,836 --> 00:34:37,556 Speaker 1: he was my husband, Um, you know I loved him. 504 00:34:37,636 --> 00:34:42,716 Speaker 1: I kept telling him you need to stop, just that 505 00:34:42,716 --> 00:34:46,836 Speaker 1: that this has got to stop, that all of this 506 00:34:47,076 --> 00:34:51,196 Speaker 1: intrusion into our personal lives has to stop. This is crazy. 507 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:54,236 Speaker 1: Here we are up in northern Michigan for weeks on 508 00:34:54,396 --> 00:34:58,156 Speaker 1: end with nothing to do, waiting for phone calls. You 509 00:34:58,196 --> 00:35:02,476 Speaker 1: know this, This is not any kind of a life 510 00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:08,396 Speaker 1: that I want to lead, And this isn't what any 511 00:35:08,436 --> 00:35:26,116 Speaker 1: of us signed up for. Next time and deep Cover, 512 00:35:27,516 --> 00:35:30,476 Speaker 1: did I sit down, I have lunch or dinner with him? No? Okay, 513 00:35:30,996 --> 00:35:33,836 Speaker 1: I just I was aware of him. I was very 514 00:35:33,876 --> 00:35:38,716 Speaker 1: aware of him. I remember the day that that timms 515 00:35:39,756 --> 00:35:43,196 Speaker 1: I ever got involved with me. I wish I had 516 00:35:43,236 --> 00:36:02,916 Speaker 1: never heard my name. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob 517 00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:06,956 Speaker 1: Smith and edited by Karen Shakerge. Our story editor is 518 00:36:07,036 --> 00:36:10,716 Speaker 1: Jack hit. Original music and our theme was composed by 519 00:36:10,756 --> 00:36:14,876 Speaker 1: Luis Gara and Flawn Williams is our engineer. Fact checking 520 00:36:14,956 --> 00:36:20,036 Speaker 1: by Amy Gaines. Mia Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's 521 00:36:20,116 --> 00:36:24,556 Speaker 1: novel is read by Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton, 522 00:36:24,876 --> 00:36:30,316 Speaker 1: Heather Faine, Carly mcgliori, Leta Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler, 523 00:36:30,516 --> 00:36:35,316 Speaker 1: Aggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, Zoe Gwen and Jacob Weisberg at 524 00:36:35,316 --> 00:36:39,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment. 525 00:36:40,796 --> 00:37:12,396 Speaker 1: I'm Jake Albern