1 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio. That is, of course Dreams by 3 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to a TikTok of some guy on 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: a skateboard who goes by the name dog Face lip 5 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: syncing to this song and his seventy two million views, 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Max album rumors broke through Rolling Stones Top on 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: list again last year, more than forty years after its release. 8 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: My guest today is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac existed for nearly a decade before 10 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: the lineup we think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie at Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood 12 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: Mac formed in London in the late nineties sixties, it 13 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: was Peter Green's idea. Well, I would be remiss. Peter 14 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: Green started Fleetwood Matt the original guitar player. I was 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: at his right hand side, John McVie. All of us 16 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: have played in the band called John Males Blues Breakers, 17 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: Eric McK taylor, Peter Green. They and I'm saying that 18 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: because they were represent great guitar players that came out 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: of that band that have more than made their mark 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: in my world. And so Peter asked me to play drums, 21 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: and I already had played with them in a funny 22 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: band with Rod Stewart for a short while, so we 23 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: won't go into that. So it was it was really 24 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: a team of people that Peter John mcvigh especially came 25 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: art form, the blues, and really all our heroes were 27 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: American blues artists, and you are well, aw I can 28 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: tell about the irony of of a bunch of funny, 29 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: little white kids in England really preserving an art form 30 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: that had long since been you know, I won't use 31 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: the bad word, but you know, pooped on by the 32 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: American sort of glossing over of something that was so evident. 33 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: So we were all from that framework and when we 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi 35 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen 36 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: to the first few albums that we made before Peter 37 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: especially started really writing, like when you look at early 38 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, it's Bow Diddley and Chuck Berry and with 39 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: anyone you see the development into self expression and that's 40 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: what transpired afterwards. But the original band was all about 41 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: that and a little team of people sharing something and 42 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: having a lot of fun with it, you know, creatively 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: turned into something a little bit more than we ever 44 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: could have possibly have imagined. The year that you formed 45 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: the band with Green, what year was that seven Winstor 46 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: Jazz Festival and the band was called Fleetwood Mac by 47 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Peter Green, who could have very easily become the Jeff 48 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: Beck or the Jimmy Page or the Eric Clapton gun 49 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: slinger guitar player. That's a whole another story. Is is 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: a lovely story and an attribute to Peter's generosity. We 51 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: played the Winstor Jazz Festival intending, as you can tell 52 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: with the name Fleetwood Mac. The name was my name 53 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was still 54 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: playing in John Male's Blues Breakers on the same show. 55 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from 56 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,839 Speaker 1: the side of the stage, and about three months later 57 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with 58 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: whatever amount of mon he does have, So when we 59 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: had enough gigs he said I'm ready to join, which 60 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: was of course when you made it worth my while. 61 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: When it worth I know there'll be no net loss 62 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: in my income. I'll meet you there at the club. 63 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: And that's what happened. And when you say that Green 64 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: could have been in this pantheon of great guitar players, 65 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: because it's something he didn't want. That he did not 66 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: want that level of fame and that level of attention. No, 67 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: it was very evident. And the end story, which of 68 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: course went into a very changed personally, he was my 69 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know, 70 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: he gave me so much encouragement as a player and 71 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: super fun person but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive 72 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized. 73 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: And he eventually became sick and so came to a 74 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: sort of journey that was for a while was living 75 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: a living tragedy for me, uh offishly. But then you 76 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: learned to accept him as he turned out. But back 77 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: then everything he did was about being just really generous. 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: And I read an article after you know you you think, well, 79 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: what was the real story, And for instance would be 80 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: that someone asked him why was the bank hall Fleetwood 81 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: mac And he said well, I figured at that point, 82 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: I've broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who are 83 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: later married, and I played with Peter, and he had 84 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: his eyes on another drummer, as it turned out, and 85 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: he said, why did you pick Mick? And of course 86 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: my little less than self would would have thought, well, 87 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know. 88 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: And what it was, he said, I wanted Mike to 89 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: play the drums because I got so fed up with 90 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: seeing him so sad that I thought it would give 91 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: him something to do. And I thought that was the 92 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend. 93 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: And that really sums it up about how it was 94 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: not about him. And he created a platform which served me. Well, 95 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: my father, it was an Air Force chap. So the 96 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: word to serve, to serve, Well, that's what I think 97 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: I learned to do. With all of how the madness 98 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: of this band and and and the incarnates of just 99 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: are you kidding me? That if you wrote this down 100 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: you would say, it's not possible this bunch could possibly 101 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: have survived with all of the ups and downs and 102 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: character changes and changing the script as you go along, 103 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: And yet there's still a story. Peter started that and 104 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: handed that to me. I think when he he welcomed everyone, 105 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: including me, Danny Cowen who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer. 106 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: They were all there so that Peter did not want 107 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: to be king Tut in the front there taking all 108 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: the limelight, and I think it was way more meaning 109 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: full in sense of of where he came from. It's 110 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: just he wanted to be in a band, and he 111 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: created that band and made sure the band was not 112 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 1: called Peter Green's anything, because he could are very easily, 113 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: and I always thank him for that. The name Fleetwood 114 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: Mac he was asked and he said, well, I always 115 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: thought that I would probably move on, which he did 116 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: under very strange circumstances, unfortunately for us. And he said 117 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: I wanted Mick and John to have something. And I 118 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: saw and heard this interview years and years and years 119 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: and years later. It's like finding out a family relative 120 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: will tell you what the real story was. And sometimes 121 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: it's mind blowing, and sometimes it's hugely moving and gratifying 122 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: to hear, and that was one of them. He didn't 123 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: start drumming till you were thirteen, correct officially, but yeah, 124 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: I would say I started hitting furniture when I was 125 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: about eight. What change when you were thirteen? You want 126 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: a drum? Now, on a serious level, what changed? Oh? 127 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: I would think that, first of all, been completely on 128 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had had not 129 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: one iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So 130 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: there I was struggling with great parents. So I never 131 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: felt threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still 132 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: don't know my arthrobet or I mean, if my whole 133 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: family was lined up God forbid and said you don't 134 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: have to well, I know, but a lot of people say, 135 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about 136 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: what I do when I play drums. I said, actually, 137 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to tell 138 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: you the real truth, and and you go, well, it's not. 139 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you 140 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: do that? You're full of ship, you know, you know? 141 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have 142 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: no idea. So I blundered into it. But I would 143 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: think that the love and the one thing that I 144 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: could grab onto was the fact that I, for some reason, 145 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned 146 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: to back in Norway when I was much younger and 147 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: we traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little 148 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: funny we call them tuftos or something things stuff with 149 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: newspaper that sound really cool with their leather. Theyather sort 150 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: of out ottoman things, and and I Mom would listen 151 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: to the home service and do the cleaning and have 152 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: a Dubonne and have a one cigarette of the day. 153 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: This is when I was probably about six or seven 154 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: in Norway, and I remember listening to the radio and 155 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: tapping on I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy 156 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: used to tap on on coins and do military things 157 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: in his pocket and he would play bottles with water 158 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: in them at parties, so I vaguely remember that. I 159 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: don't think that's why I did it, but I think 160 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: my quantum lead was a blessing and it was like 161 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: a divine intervention of sorts that the one thing I 162 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: love doing. I had this obsession with collecting drum catalogs 163 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: and fantasies of gold and sparkling instruments that you know, 164 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: we're my dream. So at boarding school, the last thing 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: I did, I had this whole package filled with brushes, 166 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: opened one to the other, and I think I saw 167 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: my way out. And when Dad said, do you want 168 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: to go to college, and he didn't have any money, 169 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: but he was obviously making it available for me, and 170 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: with tears in our eyes, and I said, Daddy, I 171 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: want to go to London and play drums. And by 172 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: that time I had had my little drum kit, almost 173 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: a toy drum kit, in the house. And I think 174 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: it was my learning disability that drove me by Some 175 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: happened since both my sisters went into the arts. One 176 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: was a very fine actress, Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company, 177 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: and my elder sister was an art student at the Polytechnic, 178 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: so we were all completely academically use us. So I 179 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: had the blessing that Mom and Dad said, then, my god, 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: it's probably the only one thing he really thinks he 181 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: can do. And that wasn't encouraged you, absolutely just I 182 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: had complete and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever, 183 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: And they sent me off with a drum kit to 184 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: London wrapped in the blanket. My father wrote a poem 185 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: about it. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's 186 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: the thing If you love conversations with iconic musicians who 187 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: also happy to be members of long lasting bands, be 188 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,359 Speaker 1: sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary 189 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: frontman Roger Daughtry from our Archives. Daughtry talked about the 190 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No 191 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: one told me, I just yourself. Once they went into 192 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,119 Speaker 1: the free form in the early days, the late sixties, 193 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: it just came out of boredom I was. I couldn't 194 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: stand here and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't tall enough. 195 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: I just needed to dance, but I didn't want to 196 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: dance like an ordinary dancer. So I just started to 197 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: play with it and it just got bigger and dig 198 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: energy and channel the energy. And then Pete started jumping, 199 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: and that legendary jump of him like a kangaroos. Really 200 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: and uh, but the whole thing was kind of in 201 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it. 202 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: It was kind of extraordinary. Here the rest of my 203 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: conversation with Roger Daltrey that here's the thing dot Org. 204 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: After the break, we talked about the women who became 205 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: essential to the group's sound. I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're 206 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: listening to here's the thing. Damn, that's Christine McVie performing Songbird. 207 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: McVie joined Fleetwood mag in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left. 208 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: She had married John McVeigh a couple of years before 209 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined in. I wanted to 210 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: know if when Christine joined there was any pressure to 211 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: include a woman. Well, Christine for sure, and any lovely 212 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: lady out there would not take it wrong. She was 213 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: a musician and she was a great piano player, and 214 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: her experience was already integrated with being I'm a player, 215 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: and it was nothing of the sort that it was 216 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: a woman or a man. It was just who you 217 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: are and what you do. Truly, it was that and 218 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: she cherishes that to this day because we call her 219 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: the rock. You know. She's like, she doesn't rely on 220 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: anything other than no pussy stuff. I am who I am, 221 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: and am I delivering what you need? And she has 222 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: that respect. So she came into the band as a player, literally, 223 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: and there was no thought she she knew John, which 224 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Part from is your 225 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: maiden name really perfect? Is it Christine? Perfect? Yeah? And 226 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: John would say she was perfect before she married me. Well, Jack, 227 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: so that was really it. It was not about having 228 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: a lady and about we need a girl. No, it 229 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: was about a really, really great musician, bloody good piano player. 230 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true, 231 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: which is that in that world there is nobody who 232 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: cast a spell on me like Christine lick They. I mean, 233 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: I love her singing beyond belief. I mean, she just 234 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: she does something to me that I can't even describe. 235 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: She she singing is so beautiful. You know I can 236 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: second that, right. So she's with you in the band, 237 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: and then you decided to have another woman joined the band. 238 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: So Buckingham, you asked him to join the band. Yeah, 239 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: but Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and 240 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap 241 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: so he left. But prior to that, I've been in 242 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: the studio sound City to try and find a studio 243 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves 244 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having 245 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of a 246 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the 247 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: the album, and then Bob left and I made a 248 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: phone call and I said, you know that music you 249 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: were playing? Who What? How? And you're right, I was 250 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: looking for a guitar player. So I forever have Stevie 251 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: to this day in a comedic sense, but always with 252 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: a knife in my back. It wasn't really me that 253 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: you wanted, It was Lindsay, which was true, and in 254 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: very short form, Lindsay made it very clear that if 255 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: he was to join, which was not a slam dunk 256 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: at the beginning, because he and Stevie were thinking about 257 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: going forward in their own world, and she actually persuaded 258 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: Lindsay to join the band pretty much. She got fed 259 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: up with waiting tables and stuff, so she came somewhat 260 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: originally by default, and yet not because the real story 261 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: is it was very evident early on, although Stevie said, 262 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: you know loves to dig at me, it was that, 263 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal to her and 264 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this without her. Boom over. 265 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize these songs, 266 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: these beautiful songs were co written by both Lindsay and Stevie, 267 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: and then you listen to the vocal blend, which is 268 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: none other than going. When you hear the Evely Brothers, 269 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: you go like, oh my god, that has joined at 270 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: the hip. And they came in short form into the 271 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: band as a duo, which was merciful decision when I 272 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: look back that Lindsay did not desert he and and 273 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 1: said I'm here, but I'm here with my partner, and 274 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: that's how that happened. I've asked other very successful artists, 275 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: such as yourself in the music world, what does a 276 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: producer do for you? When you're in a studio, when 277 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: you're making a record. Who's the decider, who decides what 278 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: take what track, this vocal track, this drum track, whatever. 279 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: But when you had a collaboration with the producer that 280 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: helped you, what did they do for you? Well, I 281 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: think the simple form would be that we as a 282 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: band no matter what, which is not always there and 283 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: it's not always the magic formula. A lot of people 284 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: just totally excel by being guided and permanently told what 285 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to do and have a mirror. That's a reflection from 286 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: another aspect, another interpretation of really who who they truly are, 287 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: and that's fine. That was so not how we grew 288 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: up into and blustered into what we were doing. So 289 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: I would say that anyone that that's worked, including Keith. 290 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably the most 291 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: influential that he He was a blues fanatic and he 292 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: ran that little label we were on called Blue Horizon 293 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: and after that, so he would be picking songs here 294 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 1: and there with with Peter and the band. After that, 295 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: it's really about are you a band member meaning them? 296 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not 297 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in 298 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: a band. And that's what I would always look out for, 299 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: and I think that's been the our success has been 300 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: absolute suppression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's 301 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: really listening to and having an empathy with what am 302 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: I dealing with here, especially later on when we became 303 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 1: very much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was, 304 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: you have to look back on and give them huge 305 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: amounts of credit. Has been some form of a social 306 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: director more than an artistic director. And I lost all 307 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: my hair because I was both. But that would you 308 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: say when you say five separate, distinct beings, there was 309 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: a period when they weren't there were a unit, and 310 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: they were a unit during what period? And what was 311 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: that like and what what changed that? Musically? Well, Fleetwood 312 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: Mac was already a stage that existed, and Fleetwood Mac 313 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: was always about change, so that you were accepted for 314 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: who you were and one should express themselves. You know, 315 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: when I look back on it, that's in a naive 316 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: way what I must have understood, especially being a drama 317 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: when you go, well, what the hell am I going 318 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: to do if I don't have a frontline and people 319 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: that are delivering the play. You know, not to diminish 320 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: who I am and what I am. But that was 321 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: my function probably more than anything. So they came as 322 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: different characters walking on that stage, and if you see 323 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: and hear the music, you go none of it makes 324 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: any sense. None of them were clones of anyone. They 325 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: were all completely their own entity. So what they had 326 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: to learn was to be in a band. Everyone was 327 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: extremely unhappy emotionally and on the making of rumors and 328 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's it's it's tough. 329 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: You know, no one ever intended to leave or anything. 330 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: But one time I remember sitting in the studio at 331 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: the record plant with Lindsay and he just turned and 332 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know where I can do this, 333 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's just, you know, we're in transition here. 334 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: And his interpretation was, can I be in a band? 335 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: Can I be in a band? Especially with the pressure 336 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: of is this what it's like being in a band? 337 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: You're emotionally exposed? And everyone was. We were all in, 338 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm drifting into the area where we promised 339 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: we wouldn't go. But so I just sat with him 340 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: and he was playing a star, remember it distinctly, and 341 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: I said, then you must go. If it's self preservation, 342 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: don't destroy that, don't destroy yourself because of the play 343 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: in essence Peter Green, Yeah, And I said I don't 344 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: have any ultimate apart from if it's that bad, then 345 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: you have to go. And then I segued and I said, 346 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: this is what it is. Everything is a compromise. When 347 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: you're walking on a stage and sharing that that stage 348 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: and this is that stage, and I'm not forcing you. 349 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: Extremely sad if halfway through an album you just can't 350 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: finish it out. And he didn't say much. He just said, 351 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: I understand, and he stayed. A guy once said to me, 352 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: and he was much younger than me, and this is 353 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: maybe like ten years ago, was in my early fifties. 354 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: It was in the lines of advice to him for 355 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: his career, and I said, well, do you really want 356 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: like the cold, hard unvarness. You want to put the 357 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: bark on or the bark off? And I said, if 358 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: you want to put the bark on, then don't get 359 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: married to your forty, don't have any kids to your forty. 360 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: Give yourself. You're not just your twenties, but your thirties. 361 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: Give this everything you have. If you want to be 362 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: an actor with a real prime if you want to 363 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy who's 364 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: like at the top of the pile and making movies 365 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: with the best director, of the best scripts. Everything's the best, 366 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: the budgets, the release dates, everything. If you want to 367 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: surf that wave all the way to the shore, then 368 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: you have to make this the most important thing in 369 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: your life. Do you find that that was true for 370 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: you as well? I think in retrospect we didn't know 371 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: because you're you're in it. But as a comment, I 372 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: think it's entirely correct and and and proven out in 373 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: no uncertain terms of time and time and time and 374 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: time and time and time. Again. Are the miracles that 375 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: slipped through and survive like a built in version of 376 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: what you've just said. In terms of advice, yeah, few 377 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: and far between. It really puts a wall that you 378 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: don't even realize that you're putting up, where you're so 379 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: into what you're doing that people get left out and 380 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: feel pushed away. So ideally, I think your your advice 381 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: is entirely correct, but that advice is always always in 382 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: retrospect for anyone. It's always always. But I'm wondering also 383 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: with three men, I mean as Asleep with Mac is 384 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: most renowned for its three men and two women, and 385 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: neither one of those women has children? Correct? Were the 386 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: people that they were going through life and they were like, well, 387 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: we're going to get to that, And the next year 388 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: they turned around they were like, wow, we like nothing. 389 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie, 390 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no 391 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: doubt that they made that decision. Two dedicate their lives 392 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: to their careers with flashes of what if. But I 393 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: think both of these ladies would have no problem saying 394 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah. Interesting, 395 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: very interesting. Now when people ask me about my drug use, 396 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: I say that I snorted a line of cocaine from 397 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: here to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine 398 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: on the rings of Saturn, and then we took it 399 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: home with another I'm sure is that possible? I think 400 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: your your description is that actually more far reaching than mine, 401 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: a planetary version, but my version of that would be 402 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: and I never lived it down. But you know, I 403 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: have no problem at all apart from don't go there. 404 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: And and then you have the war stories, which this 405 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: is sort of tending to be. And I'll preface it 406 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: by saying war stories are fine, but there's a time 407 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: and place and what can you learn from them would 408 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: be my little lesson for anyone listening. So, having said that, 409 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: my transgression was, which was some awful interview I did, 410 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: and I said, well, I one time, you know, I 411 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: was in the studio and I'm talking about my how 412 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: much coke do you think I've ever done? This was 413 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: like in our private world, and we measured out a 414 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it, 415 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: and then X amount of years, so in the last 416 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: something something amount of years we actually worked it out 417 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: instead of cutting tape and editing the song together. We 418 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: got into a transgression of actually working out probably about 419 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: how long would that line be? And it was seven 420 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 1: miles long apparently, And I never lived that down and 421 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: years al especially in England, whether they love all that 422 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: terrible stuff, and I have to sit there not talking 423 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: about and you would be like someone talking about something 424 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: in your life versus the play I'm in or the 425 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: script I've just written, or the book I've just you know, 426 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: and you go and you go like, well, live with it, 427 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: because you opened your mouth in the first place all 428 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: those years ago, and mine would be one of probably 429 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: quite a few transgressions in terms of that. But comedically 430 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: so I still get asked, you know, was it really 431 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: seven miles long? And I looked down to my trousers 432 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: and well, I wished, you know, I'm thirty five years sober. 433 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: I get sober a long time ago in l A. 434 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: For you, did you feel that when that stopped? Because 435 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: for me, when it stopped, there were good things, but 436 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: they were also bad things because you're forced to in 437 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: front of everything. You know, if you are if you 438 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: go out in the world and you don't drink and 439 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: you don't take drugs, and then I'm not commenting on you, 440 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored and 441 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: you need to go out and face the world that 442 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: you need to resolve all your problems. You can't sit 443 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: in the problem anymore. You've got to resolve things and 444 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: confront things and clean up the mass and so forth. 445 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically 446 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: once you stopped abusing yourself. Well, I still drink, but 447 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: the marching powder was a massive part of my life 448 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: for probably way over twenty years, just a long time. 449 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle. So that's 450 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: a long time to have that that problem. Oh yeah, 451 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: I was known as the King of twot and everyone 452 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: would always know that I would wouldn't hold it, you know. 453 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: And then I did hit a brick wall and it 454 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy would always say, 455 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: because they're hugely support, almost blindly supported, I's no problem 456 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: at all. Whenever he wants to stop it can stop. It, 457 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, all those catchphrases, and I always sort of 458 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: thought that I could. And then I hit a brick 459 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: walk literally and someone that I shared my life with said, 460 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm done. I can't be around this anymore, and 461 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: I said, please don't go leave me alone for two days, 462 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: and that's what I did and never touched the stuff 463 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: since overnight. It's divine intervention, but it's also misplaced in 464 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: terms of that. That's when I probably should have gone 465 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: into a program and found out what you touched on, 466 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 1: what were those reasons? And I've done that since a 467 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: couple of times with drink and had a sort of 468 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: a wake up call, and I just thought it was fun. 469 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: I was around people telling me literally countless horror stories 470 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: of what had happened to them, especially when there were 471 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: children and young and I had no support and and 472 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of terrible things, and I just said, I 473 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: feel so terrible because I just thought it was fun 474 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: until it wasn't. And I still actually haven't found the 475 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: key of what was that My parents didn't drink on. 476 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: Julie had an incredible supportive childhood, but that brick wall 477 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: was Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe I 478 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: think being famous, I mean Fleetwood Mac I men, this 479 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: music was coming out of every clamshell on the beach 480 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: for a while. Every horse in the park was singing 481 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: you can go your own where you know. It was 482 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: like this music was everywhere, everywhere. There were so many 483 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: songs that were just washing over you. Was like in 484 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: the air all the time. Was that unsettling for you? 485 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: Fame and all that attention. Did you need to medicate 486 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: yourself to get through that period? I would say immediately 487 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: noticed how quickly I wan't no, But I do get 488 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: nervous about performing. If someone said make a speech and 489 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: read the speech to three thousand people, I would be 490 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: really put upon go out on stage and just talk 491 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: to someone I love, not even a question. I know 492 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: people around me that all of the trimmings of of 493 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: what you just mentioned would be. Was that something that 494 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: freaked you out? I have to say no, because of 495 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: the way I was brought up. It was just fantastic 496 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: and and fun and and but actually performing and delivering 497 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: certain aspects I would have to say, did bring out 498 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: a fundamental some form of academic calling out that you 499 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: don't know quite what you're doing, and therefore of shooting itself. 500 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 1: And therefore I know for a fact. For years and 501 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: I played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is 502 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I 503 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: have one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved, 504 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've I've 505 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: tried hypnosis, I've tried everything known to mankind to get 506 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: over it and breathing, and I had a guy like 507 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: men meditating with me on the road when I really 508 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: really really really really didn't drink. All I can say 509 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: is that instead of enjoying myself, I had my road 510 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: manager with a brown paper bag so I could breathe 511 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: into it to stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't 512 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: enjoy it, and it's because of the element, which is 513 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: nothing to do with fame and fortune. It's actually who 514 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: are you? What are you in the moment and being 515 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: called out like being in the class that I didn't 516 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know Mick Fleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing 517 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 518 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. While you're there, leave us a review. 519 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Few bands have managed to survive 520 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we return the surprising resurgence 521 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: of interest in the band's seven album rumors, Yes, the 522 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: same kind of story, it seems. That's the song hypnotized 523 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. Mick 524 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more 525 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: than fifty years. And as there's usually one person in 526 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: every long lasting band that brings them back together, I 527 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac. It would 528 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: be me and and that was and is and has 529 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: been my function. I imaged it a while ago. Not 530 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: nonely big deal. But I'm going like, because I don't write, 531 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: I don't sing, although I'm enjoying doing some of that now, 532 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: which is interesting, really actually interesting to be able to 533 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: make a private fool of yourself with no pressure. I said, 534 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: I think my story would be and I'm really happy 535 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: about it and quietly proud of it. That my function 536 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: was that I drifted into it, I learned it, and 537 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: me and John always wanted to have a band to 538 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: be in. Why wouldn't you? And I said, I think 539 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: that story, sorry, is my song. You're a musical catilog 540 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: can seen so many beautiful songs. It's beautiful music, and 541 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: the poetry is beautiful, and the lyrics it still moves 542 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: you to this day. Yeah. I take that as a 543 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: lovely compliment on behalf of all of us in this 544 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: crazy band, and thank you. And I think there is 545 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: sometimes almost the lighthearted part of Fleetwood Mac or whatever 546 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: word one wants to use, the sort of the poppy 547 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: part of it was always balanced out by a form 548 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 1: of reveal of a form of very often some romance 549 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: of of sadness, and entertaining that type of dialogue would 550 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: be for me is songbird, and there of course our others. 551 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: But I remember when Chris wrote that, and I actually 552 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: spoke very recently to her about it. We just drifted 553 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: into a conversation and she totally remembered, and I went, Chris, 554 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: this is like Edith pf on a stage alone. And 555 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: she was in the studio at the record plant, and 556 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: I said, this needs to be lonely. We should record 557 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: it in an empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio. 558 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: Let's go and do that. And we did, and we 559 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: went to college over in Berkeley and recorded that song. 560 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: As the imaging of it was so devastating to me. 561 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: I said, you are alone, You are alone playing this lovely, 562 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: lovely song, and it should be all of that. And 563 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: that's exactly what we did. It was. It was the 564 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: most pregnant suite moment around the song that I can tell. 565 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: In our short conversation, some including Stevie Nicks, and we 566 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: read about Dylan's going to sell his catalog and David 567 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: Crosby is getting ready to sell his catalog. And I 568 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 1: guess in this Cove era and beyond, in the age 569 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: of streaming music, people are seeing the sources of revenue 570 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: dry up. Certainly, some of these people are older, they're 571 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, they're not selling their catalog and they're in 572 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: their thirties or whatever. But what do you think of them? 573 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: I think it's great. It is I'm sure it's not 574 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: for everyone or whatever. But I think the circumstances has 575 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: triggered so many things. This would be one of them. 576 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: I think that those decisions may or may not have 577 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: been made anyhow, who's to say why not? And a 578 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: body of work that is to be quite frankly translated 579 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: into all sorts of lovely things for these people, whatever 580 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: that might be. Because the people are talking about they 581 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: certainly don't need any money from the most part, but no, 582 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: well I say, let's say we doubt it. So it 583 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: becomes something that will grow into all sorts of other 584 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: things one would imagine. Um, what they might be is 585 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: their business, you know. And one of the things I 586 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: think his family. I think a lot of people are 587 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: handing down to family ahead of time versus you know, 588 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: people picking through when you're God forbid, whenever that moment comes. 589 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: And to see family enjoying stuff that can be allocated 590 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: before you do pop off. So, if I'm not mistaken, 591 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: Rumors is the best selling album again now as the 592 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: direct result of some guy on a skateboard swinging down 593 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: cranberry juice. What did you think and what did you 594 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: think of when you first came across the TikTok phenomena 595 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: that has occurred? Well, I know him as Nathan. His 596 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: online name is dog Face, and it is quite believe 597 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: all hell was breaking loose because he made a decision 598 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: one day to do his thing. It happened in the 599 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: most charming way. And then someone said, well would you 600 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: would you? I said, well, I can't get on a skateboards. 601 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: I hung myself off the back of a of a 602 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: golf cart and did the thing. And the next thing 603 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: I know, we're all on halftime sports programs and god 604 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: knows what else his whole life has changed. Uh. And 605 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: I actually loved it because it was so not thought of. 606 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: One of the lovely things I was able to say 607 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: on a zoom call. He was doing an interview in 608 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: England with some very upstanding BBC chap and he had 609 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: no idea I was going to come on the zoom call. 610 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: So that's when I first met him, you know, face 611 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: to face, and and his family came on. They sang 612 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: songs to me and stuff, and I said, let me 613 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: tell you, Nathan Fleetwood macOS, it's been a fantastic moment 614 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 1: in time that that when a wall and typical Fleetwood Matt. 615 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: Just when you think, you know, we've survived, We've been 616 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: really lucky, you know, and so many some of the 617 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: things we've touched on in our talk, where as hopeless odds, 618 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: we've prevailed. And I always joke about, especially with Lindsey 619 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: Buckingham years ago. I used to sit with him and 620 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: you go like, we are the most abused rock and 621 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: roll franchise in the world. Meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really, 622 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: we're all idiots, but it's sort of good and we're 623 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: still here. It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this 624 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: because it's easy, and that is you're still here and 625 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: people are picking songs of yours too, soundtrack, they're kind 626 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: of playfulness, TikTok and so forth, because the music is great. 627 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean you, and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh. 628 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: I love hypnotized. I love Mystery to me. I love 629 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: I love those early records. I play them to death. 630 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: I love everything the guys and then solo acts, Christie, 631 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, Stevie, solo albums, blah blah blah. I love 632 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: it all. But I mean you. You live in people's 633 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: hearts because the music is that good. You guys made 634 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: some of the greatest music in the history of the 635 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: music that sins. Thank you so much now, it's been 636 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,919 Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure. And I remember something my father said, 637 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: and it seems to really apply to a lot of 638 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: the storytelling about this funny life and most certainly Fleetwood 639 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,760 Speaker 1: Mac and the fact that there have been all sorts 640 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: of ups and downs and around the Marlbury Bush and 641 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: pain and a lot of happiness as well. My dad 642 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: would always say one thing, Mick, I can tell you 643 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: it's all been worth a dam. And and hearing you 644 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: say that about the music makes me feel that it's 645 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: all been worth a dam. And thank you, lots of 646 00:40:42,400 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: loved you and my love to you, Nick Flipworthy and 647 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: the radio, I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the 648 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: thing from my heart. Radio can leave and you lad 649 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: no no K, I'm gonna I'm gonna be